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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio Zaren.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth, what's up? You know I'm doing? How you doing? Good? Good?

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Speaker 3: Good?

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Speaker 2: Nice? I'm on the right side of the bars.

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Speaker 3: Well, I know, above ground and getting paid.

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Speaker 2: You know how we do.

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Speaker 3: That's us, that's us. You know, it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I do, Elizabeth, Oh do I I was you know,

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Speaker 2: you know how we do? Both of us. We read

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Speaker 2: do stories and we're like, oh, could that be something

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Speaker 2: I tell the other? And a funny story? Well, this

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Speaker 2: one was in a full episode, but it's definitely worth

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Speaker 2: me telling you.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So the headline is Prior Lake woman arrested with bag

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Speaker 2: of drugs labeled definitely not a bag of drugs. Oh no,

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Speaker 2: So this forty eight year old woman from the Prior

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Speaker 2: Lake area. She had a bag labeled definitely not a

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Speaker 2: bag of drugs and the midnight, just before midnight on

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Speaker 2: New Year's Eve, she was a pulled over for suspicion

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Speaker 2: of drunk driving. And this was all due to the

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Speaker 2: fact that the police when they pulled her over for

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Speaker 2: swerving on this one boulevard, police asked the woman if

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Speaker 2: she'd been drinking. She responded a lot. She added that

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Speaker 2: she took a yegger bomb just before driving, like one

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Speaker 2: for the road Elizabeth, and she had been drinking Jamison

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Speaker 2: and red bulls all night.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh.

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Speaker 2: So they breathalyzed her. Right test comeback blood alcohol is

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Speaker 2: point one nine, which is double legal limit. Right. So

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Speaker 2: the police they arrest the woman and then they started

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Speaker 2: to go through her car and she tells them if

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Speaker 2: they do, they're going to quote find a bunch of

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Speaker 2: in her car. So the officers indeed found a brown

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Speaker 2: bag with the riding on it. In the bag was

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Speaker 2: get this fourteen individual psychedelic mushrooms, so magic mushrooms, the

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Speaker 2: pot brownie. The police also found some more just loose pot,

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Speaker 2: some cocaine, three pills of Motorden fidel. It's like, I

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Speaker 2: guess it's profagill. It's an antidepressant and an oxy codon

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Speaker 2: pill in her bag. Definitely not a bag full of trucks.

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Speaker 3: My gosh, was on an adventure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. This is January seventh of this year that I

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Speaker 2: saw this story report.

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Speaker 3: I hope she turns her life around.

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Speaker 2: I just love her, like real or candor. She's like, look,

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Speaker 2: it's like people lie to their doctor. Yeah, why no,

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Speaker 2: you know look, you got it. All all the evidence

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Speaker 2: is there. You're going to find some stuff in my bag, not.

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Speaker 3: The misleading bag you've been drinking. I love it a lot.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, there you go, ridiculous.

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Speaker 3: This is ridiculous. Do you want to know what else

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Speaker 3: is ridiculous?

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Speaker 2: I'd love to beige the color.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, this is ridiculous. Crime a podcast about absurd and

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Speaker 3: outrageous capers. He and cons. It's always ninety nine percent

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Speaker 3: murder free and one percent ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Damn right.

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Speaker 3: I know I've mentioned influencers here before.

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Speaker 2: You have.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a phenomenon. I just don't understand. I don't

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Speaker 3: understand following a person online because you like their fashion

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Speaker 3: or lifestyle choices, Like who cares you really? Don't you

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Speaker 3: understand I don't make anything. They just pose with things,

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Speaker 3: or like they show their butts on beaches.

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Speaker 2: You know, but sometimes they do like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of outfit of the day, or buy this look kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff, or like musicians whore Like I found this

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Speaker 2: shop that sells these records.

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Speaker 3: It's different thans a musician who's trying to get like

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Speaker 3: a side hustle. I found a shop that sells records.

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Speaker 2: I also will sell a look often so that you

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Speaker 2: know they will sell propus.

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Speaker 3: The ones that really creep me out are the parents

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Speaker 3: who put their kids on social media.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, are they still doing that?

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Speaker 3: But yeah? Well sometimes I'll see a video on Instagram

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Speaker 3: of some kid doing something that's cute, and for a moment,

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Speaker 3: I'm all, and then I immediately snap out of it

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, that is so exploitive and how dangerous,

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Speaker 3: Like there are a lot of creeps out there.

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Speaker 2: I think people need to have these different tiers of exposure,

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Speaker 2: Like there should be some things like for friends and family,

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Speaker 2: and then some things for the group chat, and then

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Speaker 2: some things for like wider public consertion. They need like

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Speaker 2: inside jokes, outside jokes, like this is not an outside joke,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not saying that's not funny, but it's really

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Speaker 2: offensive to a large so maybe don't make that joke.

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Speaker 3: Exactly Exactly. In my family, we've got like the the

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Speaker 3: group chats that involve like what we call content pictures

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Speaker 3: of and videos of my nephew. But he never appears

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Speaker 3: on no one ever puts anything online.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, no matter how cute or funny he is.

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Speaker 2: Although I have to say he was on America's Funny

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Speaker 2: Somethings Videos, so there is a little bit of it.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 3: A videos I forgot about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is aside from Burnette.

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Speaker 3: I totally anyway, I gotta let kids be kids. So

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Speaker 3: I'm guilty of doom scrolling online, oh yeah, and getting

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Speaker 3: dragged into like endless streams of Instagram reels because it

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Speaker 3: takes me a while to kind of likes. I'll say like,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to bed, and then an hour later, I'm

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Speaker 3: still laying there, but I can't just fall asleep. And

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Speaker 3: so you know, I have to say that I think

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Speaker 3: things began to fall apart for us as a society

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Speaker 3: with social media. I said this to you the other day.

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Speaker 2: You do.

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Speaker 3: I mean the intention is great, connecting people, blah blah blah. Sure,

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Speaker 3: but it's become a poison. It's terrible. It messes with

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Speaker 3: people's heads.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's the what, it's the how.

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Speaker 3: No, it is it's the how too, like when you

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Speaker 3: monetize and m and the whole thing. It works for

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Speaker 3: both sides of the influencer equation. So you have the

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Speaker 3: consumers seeing these videos and photos of altered reality and

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Speaker 3: wanting it for themselves.

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Speaker 2: Ah yeah.

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Speaker 3: The images are manipulated, not just like with photoshop or whatever,

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Speaker 3: but like the behind the scenes tricks, so it's an unreality.

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Speaker 3: They make a place look amazing and then tourists descend

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Speaker 3: on it and turn it into a hellscape. They pretend

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Speaker 3: to eat some confection, whether it's like an improbable pastry

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Speaker 3: or like a milkshake esque coffee drink.

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Speaker 2: Yeah mean you know they're not actually drinking.

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Speaker 3: No, they'll like buy it like pose and then throw

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Speaker 3: it away and everyone swarms on the places like locusts

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Speaker 3: and they disappear for the next thing.

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Speaker 2: And all the camera tricks that are involved in presentation

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Speaker 2: yeah yeah, I'm not talking like actual editing force perspectives.

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Speaker 3: On the other end of it, the influencers create an

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Speaker 3: unreality in which they live like they demand freebies and deals.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, They block walkways in airports and like tables

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Speaker 3: at restaurants to film idiotic clips. They come to believe

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Speaker 3: their own hype. Yes, I'm sure it takes work to

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Speaker 3: launch oneself as an influencer effort, but I don't believe

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Speaker 3: it takes.

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Speaker 2: Talent, No persistence, I think is what it takes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they aren't creating anything. They're serving corporate, capitalist, consumerist interests,

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Speaker 3: like they are tools of a commercial machine.

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Speaker 2: I will say that there has to be some talent

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Speaker 2: for some of the real goers because of the ones

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Speaker 2: who other people end up imitating. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: imitation in the space of influence.

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Speaker 3: I think it's more luck than talent. They're fungible, right,

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Speaker 3: and even more so as they all start to look

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Speaker 3: like each other. But I think for whatever reason, and

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Speaker 3: sometimes when one of them hits, is that because of

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Speaker 3: corporate influence, that extends their reach further than there is

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Speaker 3: one to try it. You know, Organically they get enough followers,

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Speaker 3: they start to feel that like their fame.

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Speaker 2: Is far reaching, right, Yeah, and it's real.

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Speaker 3: They start to with like the whole don't you know

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Speaker 3: who I am? Thing? Like when they are denied what

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Speaker 3: they want.

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Speaker 2: It's like a super big sized version of do you

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Speaker 2: know my dad is?

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Speaker 3: Totally? And like what they want is like free stuff

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Speaker 3: or preferential treatment. And as a rule, I find I

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Speaker 3: don't really patronize the same establishments as these folks.

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Speaker 2: Businesses, locales, travel destinations.

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Speaker 3: One time you and I were at Heifeiberger in Oakland

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Speaker 3: to check it out, and there was a food influencer

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Speaker 3: there who like set up a camera array at one

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Speaker 3: of the tables to record himself, just like putting the

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Speaker 3: hurt on a.

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Speaker 2: Birthday tabletop tripod. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I was mesmerized and it was like cringe inducing and

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Speaker 3: for me it was.

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Speaker 2: Like a sociological experiment or like being a naturalist like

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Speaker 2: in his actual environment. The influencer.

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Speaker 3: So I've talked about scammer influencers. Yes, what about influencer

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Speaker 3: on influencer beef.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, let's on that one.

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Speaker 3: So, like there are food influencers like you know little

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Speaker 3: kid at Heifeiberger, but also style influencers. Obviously one of

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Speaker 3: those cats is Ben Yang aka Ben Baller. I have

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Speaker 3: to establish first, like before I go into this, all

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Speaker 3: the people I name don't come at me like I'm

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Speaker 3: doing you a favor. I'm talking about you, So don't

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Speaker 3: get mad at me. Influencers, You're welcome spreading their reach.

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Speaker 3: You're welcome anyway. Yeah, I know, right. So, Ben Yang

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Speaker 3: aka Ben Baller he is an LA based entrepreneur whose

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Speaker 3: public identity is built around three overlapping careers, entertainment work,

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Speaker 3: celebrity facing custom jewelry and influencer media, so like podcasts

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Speaker 3: and social platforms. He's a triple threat Zerin. Apparently he

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Speaker 3: was your typical LA entertainment industry operator. He got to

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Speaker 3: start in the music industry. He was a VP of

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Speaker 3: A and R AT Priority Records. Okay, his family owned

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Speaker 3: a jewelry shop, and then he pivoted to that at

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Speaker 3: some point and he became closely associated with custom quote

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Speaker 3: iced out jewelry for musicians and entertainers, like pave stuff

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Speaker 3: is basically you know when I think of like what

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Speaker 3: you know looks iced out jewelers. Yes, yes, I found

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Speaker 3: a bunch of interviews with the guy, and all I

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Speaker 3: can say is that I I had to control my

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Speaker 3: rage for some reason. This guy irritates the potatoes out

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Speaker 3: of me. There's this interview in Flaunt magazine right there,

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Speaker 3: and it's basically gibberish. Here's a sample. Here's the question.

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Speaker 3: When you were a VP A of an R AT

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Speaker 3: Priority Records, what was jewelry in your life at that point?

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Speaker 3: That's the question, what je what was jewelry in your

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Speaker 3: life at that point? You're a phenomenal interviewer, it was

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Speaker 3: still here's his response. I loved it, but working in

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Speaker 3: the corporate world is interesting. I was making good money.

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Speaker 3: If you deserve to make money, then you should make money,

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Speaker 3: meaning if you have points on a record points would

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Speaker 3: translate to somewhat ownership, but not really. If you're making

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Speaker 3: good money at a record label and doing well, you

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Speaker 3: should be rewarded with the right salary. A lot of

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Speaker 3: people are doing well and they haven't hit it yet.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't necessarily hit it yet at Priority, even though

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Speaker 3: we had successes. The structure of the label back then,

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Speaker 3: it's not necessarily set up for anybody to eat but

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Speaker 3: the CEO. Some people can, some people can't. You have

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Speaker 3: to be in the right position. I went in there

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Speaker 3: literally out of my means. I wanted to wear Versace,

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Speaker 3: whatever the fly is. Clothes were have all the cool

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Speaker 3: drive a fly car. It's funnier every time I think

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Speaker 3: about it, what made me happy or what I really

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Speaker 3: looked forward to and that lifestyle. I wake up daily

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Speaker 3: now and I laugh. Everything I wanted then, whether it

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Speaker 3: was jewelry or anything. Even if a watch is completely

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Speaker 3: inflated in price, watch prices are now the worst they've

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Speaker 3: ever been. Some watches that cost fifty or sixty grand.

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Speaker 3: They're one hundred and fifty two hundred grand. Now, even

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Speaker 3: at that price, if I really really wanted it, I'll

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Speaker 3: go buy ten or twenty of them. It's nothing I

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Speaker 3: really care about, sir.

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Speaker 2: The question was is this your sake?

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Speaker 3: Let's go back to the original question when you were

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Speaker 3: VP of A and R at Priority Records. Was jewelry

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Speaker 3: in your life at that point? Much of the rest

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Speaker 3: of the interview is about a custom gold mini fridge. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the whole thing. I was like, am I having a stroke?

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Speaker 2: I'd have to clarify because they'resually saying words and I

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Speaker 2: think I know what they mean, but maybe not. When

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Speaker 2: you say a gold mini fridge, is this a mini

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Speaker 2: fridge to keep your gold cold? Or is this actually.

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Speaker 3: Made of gold gold plated miniature?

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Speaker 2: I decided to be clarified.

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Speaker 3: I know, I know. The La Times they did a

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Speaker 3: profile of him in twenty sixteen about his menswear venture.

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Speaker 2: Oh lord.

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Speaker 3: They talked about his quote improbable, career.

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Speaker 2: Arc improbable, that's something an insult, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And they said that part of the jewelry business was

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Speaker 3: funded by selling a his sneaker collection for He sold

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Speaker 3: it for more than a million dollars.

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Speaker 2: He was like a mad shoe beest.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 3: The jewelry business is icy Fresh icee like the seven

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Speaker 3: eleven ries, but now it goes by IF and Co.

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Speaker 2: It's seven eleven threatened to suit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: There are categories on the store website like Jesus Pieces,

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Speaker 3: which is different from Reese's Pieces.

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Speaker 2: And these are just like in golden crusted and diamond

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Speaker 2: and crusty cross. Yeah, because you know Jesus. The first

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Speaker 2: thing you'd want to see is that.

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Speaker 3: He was like, I love it so much, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to kick these tables over.

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Speaker 2: I bet the poor really are benefiting from this.

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Speaker 3: This is perfect for me. There's also cryptocurrency jewelry.

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Speaker 2: Of course, there is wolf jewelry, wolf heads.

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Speaker 3: And royal jewelry and this is what it says under there,

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Speaker 3: Please enter the realm of majesty with IF In Companies

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Speaker 3: Royal Jewelry Collection. This exquisite range is a celebration of

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Speaker 3: royal elegance, featuring designs inspired by kings, queens, crowns, and

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Speaker 3: the grandeur of nightly valor. Each piece in this collection

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Speaker 3: is a testament to the opulence and pressed of royalty

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Speaker 3: and it's basically like the king and queen faces from

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Speaker 3: decks of cards what I'm not kidding and then a

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Speaker 3: crown or two.

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Speaker 2: It's that like mid century cool, like oh Prince ran

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Speaker 2: Year were I watch Heavens?

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Speaker 3: No his personal logo I remember, it's Ben Baller is

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Speaker 3: an overlapping BB that's a rip off of the Rolls

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Speaker 3: Royce logo. Oh yeah yeah. Oh, and he has a podcast,

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Speaker 3: Cold de Ice with Ben Baller and Jimmy Boy.

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Speaker 2: Jimmy Boy is Jimmy Boy is all.

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Speaker 3: One word and boy is bo I. Okay, it's not

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Speaker 3: an iHeart joint, thank goud, that would be awkward. Apparently

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Speaker 3: he's bailed on that project though.

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Speaker 2: No.

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Speaker 3: No, he pivoted to short form podcast TikTok videos yeah,

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Speaker 3: something he calls free game, which is just him Like

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Speaker 3: it looks like just talking to the camera for a

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Speaker 3: little bit.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't bring myself to watch any of that.

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Speaker 2: I love us becoming again an oral culture.

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Speaker 3: Yes, here's what those have to offer the viewer. Jewelry

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Speaker 3: and business insights.

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Speaker 2: Rising grind and also gets you shot.

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Speaker 4: Oh.

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Speaker 3: He shares his expertise as a celebrity jeweler and entrepreneur

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Speaker 3: Lifestyle and culture, where he discusses trends, culture and his interests,

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Speaker 3: including golf, and then quick valuable content short punchy episodes

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Speaker 3: or clips offering valuable insights as he aims to provide

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Speaker 3: quote free game.

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Speaker 2: Ah, so what do you drops three grand? This is

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Speaker 2: like say, like dating advice, maybe some dietary advice. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: his take on international relations.

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Speaker 3: Yes, plant your seeds early. Yeah, there's that whole golf thing.

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Speaker 3: Like he's a golf guy.

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Speaker 2: Now, guess is that codes wealthy?

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Speaker 3: But we're getting away from one.

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Speaker 2: But he's think it's getting into skiing soon because that's

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Speaker 2: the thing.

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Speaker 3: Because there's Saudi money in golf, all right, and that's

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Speaker 3: what he's all about. Okay, so we're getting away from

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Speaker 3: why we're here though.

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Speaker 2: Okay, please crime, drag us back crime.

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Speaker 3: Ben Baller and his wife Nicolette Yang. They were hosting

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Speaker 3: a birthday party for their seven year old son. Nicolette

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Speaker 3: called up this bakery in La Studio City called Big

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Speaker 3: Sugar Bake Shop. It's like a cute popular place.

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Speaker 2: How about they probably.

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Speaker 3: Nicolette asked for a cake with a quote modern mad science.

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Speaker 3: Birthday party theme and then she gave him a reference image.

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Speaker 2: Thank god.

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Speaker 3: The cake and the photograph had a beaker spilling on

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Speaker 3: the top and like a play on the periodic table,

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Speaker 3: and then these like pill like jelly beans had fallen

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Speaker 3: out of the beaker and like all around on the bottom.

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Speaker 2: It's like a big, breaking bad fan bea stuff.

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Speaker 3: So Big Sugar sent an invoice that itemized all the

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Speaker 3: design components and the pricing, including a line item described

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Speaker 3: as pills fifteen dollars. Nicolette responded positively to this invoice

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Speaker 3: and said, okay, sounds great. That's a direct quote. Really

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Speaker 3: it is, okay, sounds great, and asked for a frosting

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Speaker 3: color change, like it sounds great, but can we make this?

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Speaker 3: Big Sugar amended and resent the invoice, and it still

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Speaker 3: said pills fifteen dollars. So there is one matter at

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Speaker 3: dispute here. Did Nicolette tell the bakery that the cake

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Speaker 3: was for a kid? She says yes, The bakery says no,

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Speaker 3: oh no. So when the cake arrived, the Yangs freaked out.

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Speaker 3: What looked like jellybeans in the reference picture came to

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Speaker 3: life on the actual cake. As fond of decorations that

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Speaker 3: look like realistic.

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Speaker 2: Pills, ecstasy pills, all sorts.

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Speaker 3: Of like you know, exact exactly. So we had the dispute,

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Speaker 3: is this for a kid? And then there was the

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Speaker 3: dispute how did it go down? Once the cake was

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Speaker 3: turned over? So, as ben Baller tells it, he phoned

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Speaker 3: and he sought an apology and a refund, and he

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Speaker 3: calmly said it was inappropriate to put drugs on a

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Speaker 3: seven year old's cake, and he claimed that the bakery

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Speaker 3: employee was rude, blamed his wife and suggested they thought

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00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 3: the cake was for a pharmacy school graduate, and then

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Speaker 3: they hung up on him. In Big Sugar's account of

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Speaker 3: what happened, employees said ben Baller immediately threatened the bakery

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Speaker 3: with his platform, saying he had a TV show, a podcast,

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Speaker 3: and over a million followers who would quote destroy Big Sugar,

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Speaker 3: I will injure you. They said, he used all sorts

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Speaker 3: of foul language and a variety of threats over multiple

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Speaker 3: phone calls. Yes, so the bakery they're like, okay, we triage,

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Speaker 3: we got to fix this. So they started making a

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Speaker 3: replacement immediately because the party was still hours away, and

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Speaker 3: so you have to imagine they have blanks like unfrosted

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Speaker 3: rounds of cake on hand, and they just got to

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Speaker 3: decorating as quickly.

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Speaker 2: I'm with it.

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00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,399
Speaker 3: And then they delivered the second cake to the Yangs,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't enough. So within minutes of the calls

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Speaker 3: after he's calling him threatening, Ben Yang, Hey, Ben Baller,

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Speaker 3: he starts posting about Big Sugar on social media.

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Speaker 2: Before the issues resolved.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, nasty, threatening messages. He gave the name in the

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00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 3: location of the bakery. He posted about how the baker

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Speaker 3: quote up royally and is now quote legit canceled. On Twitter,

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Speaker 3: he wrote quote instead of jellybeans, they put RX prescription

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Speaker 3: pills on my seven year old's beatay cake emoji. And

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Speaker 3: then two days later he discussed the incident on his podcast.

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00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 3: Oh man, so what happened next is like totally by

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00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,880
Speaker 3: the outrage playbook, So Big Sugar. They start getting calls

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Speaker 3: and messages from his followers.

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Speaker 2: Oh, he actually does have followers that are not international.

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00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: They actually could get to the phone system contact him.

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Speaker 3: Angry stuff. People threatened the staff, they left bad reviews.

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00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 3: They said they contacted authorities about how the bakery put pills.

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Speaker 2: On a kid's can actual drugs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like honey, that's gonna costs the costume more than

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00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 3: fifteenth dollars to get actual. So then Big Sugar notified

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 3: Ben Baller via Twitter that they were receiving these threats.

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00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 3: He shot back that they were trying to quote play

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Speaker 3: the victim. So they go to their lawyers through council.

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00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,200
Speaker 3: They demand that Baller retract or correct what they said

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00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,720
Speaker 3: were false statements. My friend Ben Baller did not retract

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00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 3: or correct. No lawsuit times. So then they go after

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Speaker 3: him for libel, slander, unfair competition law which prohibits false

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00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 3: or misleading advertising, and illegal business practices. Nine offensive social

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00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:39,040
Speaker 3: media posts were cited in the lawsuit. Nine yeah he.

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00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 3: Baller responded with a special motion to strike under California's

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00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 3: anti slap statute because he said his statements were protected

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Speaker 3: speech made in connection with an issue of public interest.

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00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 2: Oh man, this tends on what kind of lawyers you

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Speaker 2: have to argue this.

400
00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,719
Speaker 3: Because he said there was quote candy confusion, and then

401
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,920
Speaker 3: this was a consumer safety issue. And then he said

402
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 3: also because he was famous, it made it newsworthy.

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00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: Famous.

404
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there it is. The trial court was like, no

405
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,640
Speaker 3: motion denied. He appealed too far.

406
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 2: He appeared gotten further, of course he did, and then.

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00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,920
Speaker 3: The California's Second District Court of Appeal September third, twenty

408
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 3: twenty one denied, and their headline conclusion was simple like

409
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 3: this was a private customer dispute over a cake order,

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00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,200
Speaker 3: not made in any connection with an issue of public interest,

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00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 3: which is what's required for anti slap. The court also

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00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 3: rejected the idea that audience size or self described celebrity

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00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 3: status automatically turns ordinary grievances into public issue speech, and

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00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 3: they the court viewed his post it aimed at trying

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00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,400
Speaker 3: to rally a crowd against a specific business rather than

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00:21:55,640 --> 00:22:00,880
Speaker 3: participating in a broader public conversation. So important thing this, though,

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00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 3: the ruling didn't decide who was right about the cake,

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00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 3: and I couldn't find out what happened to the original lawsuits,

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00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,120
Speaker 3: so I'm going to imagine they settled. Big Sugar Bake

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00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,200
Speaker 3: Shop is now permanently closed, although I don't think it's

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00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,760
Speaker 3: because of this.

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00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so this is just on their unfortunate.

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00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's stop for some ads and when we come back,

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00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,359
Speaker 3: more influencers.

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Speaker 2: Zarin Elizabeth.

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00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 3: This is the story of two influencers inside all of

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00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 3: us are two influencers. So we begin with Sydney Nicole Gifford.

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00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 3: She's a lifestyle and shopping focused social media influencer who

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00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 3: built a business around promoting consumer products, especially through Amazon's

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00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 3: influencer ecosystem.

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00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: Okay, any relation to Kathy Lee Gifford, let's say, sure what? No, Oh,

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00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 2: I got too excited.

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00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about that.

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00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 2: There's a connection to Regis Philbin in this reag she's

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00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 2: one degree away from Regis Elizabeth be.

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00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,439
Speaker 3: Careful, tread lightly. So she's an Amazon influencer. Yes, this

437
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: bums me out. Why I don't know that.

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00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 2: Like, what's the difference between Amazon influencer and a TikTok

439
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 2: Because Emma's.

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00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 3: Not even like, well, no Amazon, she's on all these

441
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,160
Speaker 3: various platforms, but she's just chilling for Amazon.

442
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: Okay, so I assume she's moving product and she just

443
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 2: goes through lots of products and all of her post

444
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: her like that I found this on Amazon.

445
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly. And so her whole operation is this family endeavor.

446
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 3: Like her mom is pretty much her manager. She handles

447
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 3: like the business emails and logistics. The mom, Laura, says

448
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 3: that her daughter was making stop motion videos and uploading

449
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:05,360
Speaker 3: them to YouTube at age twelve, okay, and that her

450
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 3: influencer platform took off several years later.

451
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 2: So all I hear. She's a talented little filmmaker and

452
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,800
Speaker 2: she's just trying to make her in the world think

453
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 2: of it, spread her joy.

454
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: When Ben Wyatt was depressed on parks and recreation, he

455
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 3: tried to make the stop motion in months to make

456
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 3: just like three seconds. That's her. So in all sorts

457
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 3: of media coverage, Gifford is repeatedly described as cultivating a

458
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: highly consistent neutral palette in her home and content. Okay,

459
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: The Verge magazine describes her home environment as a content

460
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: quote set, filled with Amazon products and maintained in an

461
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,119
Speaker 3: intentionally monochrome look.

462
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's like kind of like a Martha Stewart,

463
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: but without any of the soul brings her.

464
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 3: We'll get to her her income, really, Yeah, her income

465
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 3: is tied to promoting products and earning commissions, and all

466
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 3: these products have a certain like vibe.

467
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 2: So she's like a Truman show meets a Showcase showdown

468
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 2: on prices.

469
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,960
Speaker 3: Right, there's an aesthetic. Can I vent for a second.

470
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: Aren't you already?

471
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: That's all I do. I do nothing but vent.

472
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: Oh.

473
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 3: I know. I talk a lot about what and it

474
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 3: usually involves the younger set. I'm an old crone. I

475
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 3: can't stand when people use the word esthetic to mean

476
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 3: just basically pleasing or nice looking, like oh, that sunset

477
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 3: is so aesthetic. Oh yes, no, that does hit the

478
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,200
Speaker 3: just like something can have an esthetic like Rococo, nerd Core,

479
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: little House in the Prairie. I don't know. Something can

480
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 3: be aesthetically pleasing.

481
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 2: Sure, as a philosophy, they can be your aesthetic.

482
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,640
Speaker 3: Precisely as a philosophy, you know, it's exploring the very

483
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 3: nature of beauty and art. It comes from the Greek

484
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 3: right esthetia estheticos perception to perceive, you have to perceive

485
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 3: something though, there needs to be an object. Yes, okay,

486
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,359
Speaker 3: I'm done. I just need to get that out. This

487
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 3: is so aesthetic, you're like, so, now let's meet. Let's

488
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 3: meet Alyssa Shield.

489
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 2: We have to no.

490
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 3: Alyssy Shield. Alyssa's Shield Alissa Shiel. She's also a lifestyle

491
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 3: influencer working heavily in Amazon linked product promotion. Both of

492
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 3: these gals have like half a million people following them

493
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 3: across various platforms, and both of these gals share a

494
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 3: color palette and look something that became known as sad

495
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 3: beige in all the media coverage. Sad baby, Yeah, like

496
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 3: hashtag sad basis.

497
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 2: She's a sad creator.

498
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 3: They actually look alike. They both have long brown hair,

499
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: straight parted down the middle, like lightly bronzed skin. Everything

500
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 3: else beige clothes, house, everything have you. The meal beige.

501
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 2: Color hearts of like like the colors I saw on today,

502
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 2: it was like interior and exterior colors people used for

503
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 2: their home environments, for both for the paint and for

504
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 2: the design inside their home. And you go from like

505
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 2: six different colors, six different colors for the twenties, the

506
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: thirty six different colors in the forties, six different colors

507
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: in the fifties. Get to the seventies and they kind

508
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 2: of like lose their mind on drugs from the sixties

509
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 2: and everything goes like orange brown and avocado green. Then

510
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: the eighties you get this like the last little bit.

511
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: Then the nineties it just wash it out into the

512
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: beginning of like earth tones, and then the two thousands

513
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 2: just like beige is and now we're just down to

514
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 2: like slate gray and beige.

515
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:41,400
Speaker 3: It's really sad. By twenty twenty four that esthetic neutral, minimalist,

516
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 3: dominated by beige, cream, all these muted tones. That was

517
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 3: like everything with these lifestyle influencers.

518
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,199
Speaker 2: I still get well. I know for home resale, it's like, oh,

519
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: it's easy for people to do that, but for your

520
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 2: life environment, do you plan to live there?

521
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: More color in my life?

522
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I love color.

523
00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 3: I was reading something the other day where a person

524
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: was trying to just on a color for their cabinets

525
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: and they wanted something gray or beige grays, and there

526
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: were all these comments that were like, that's a really

527
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 3: good choice because when you go to sell the house,

528
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: people want to see neutrals. But as you're saying, like

529
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 3: you have to, this person just moved in.

530
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 2: That's like my friends who would buy it, we'd get

531
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 2: toys and they wouldn't want to take it out of

532
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 2: the box because they plan on reselling. This will be

533
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,719
Speaker 2: worth of it. I'm like my toys to play with

534
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: the toys with the market value. We are nine years old.

535
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 3: This is the attitude we have because these like these

536
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 3: things that need to be staged, ready to move, because like,

537
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 3: homes have become investments far more than domiciles, and so

538
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 3: like you have to live in the place, enjoy this

539
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 3: and habit. Yes, color brings.

540
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: Enjoyment, Oh it does. It vibes you into places you

541
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: don't know you want to go.

542
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: And not every place has to look like a hotel.

543
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: Oh no it should not.

544
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so the influencers called this look clean, which

545
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 3: my response is cluttered and messy.

546
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I like, I reserve clean for really good.

547
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, you look clean, right, But that's like

548
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 2: they wanted to be like sterile.

549
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't using a better word for marketing purposes,

550
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 3: but that's what they're selling. And so they kept these

551
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 3: things neutral when it came to fashion home decor, like

552
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: other consumer products appliances, cars, luggage, prosthetic limbs.

553
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: I said to show that in there for you, Elizabeth Dutton, body.

554
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 3: There it is. So their followers were all about this

555
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: subdued palette, minimalistic composition. But there wasn't room enough in

556
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 3: this town for two sad beij ladies. It seems Gifford

557
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 3: thought that Shiel was biting her style or lack thereof,

558
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 3: So in April.

559
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 2: They're both biting styles, like how can they We either

560
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 2: wanted to be like this is totally my esthetics.

561
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: In April of twenty twenty four, Gifford filed a lawsuit

562
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 3: in federal court in the Western District of Texas against

563
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 3: Shiel and The lawsuit alleged that Shiel had systematically copied

564
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: Gifford's signature neutral beige slash cream esthetic and leveraged it

565
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: to promote similar products, thereby infringing on Gifford's intellectual property

566
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 3: and commercial identity. Gifford's complaint included a range of legal claims,

567
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 3: so she was talking about copyright infringement, okay. She said

568
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 3: that Shield's social media posts bore unauthorized similarity to Gifford's

569
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 3: original content. Oh, trade dress infringement, asserting that the overall

570
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 3: look and feel of her aesthetic was distinctive and should

571
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: be protected.

572
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 2: So you can't also dress like Ronald McDonald is like

573
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: and how to tell burgers let you.

574
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: Go, misappropriation of likeness. She said that sheield replicated aspects

575
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 3: of her personal image and presentation like a single white

576
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 3: female and then violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act DMCA.

577
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: Oh, just basic copyright, Like, oh, you did what I

578
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 2: did online?

579
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly I did online. So lawyers for Gifford said

580
00:30:56,160 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: that her visual style was her distinctive commercial idea, and

581
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: they argue that the consistent monochrome, cream gray, and neutral

582
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 3: beige color scheme, together with minimalist settings and personal presentation,

583
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 3: constituted protectable elements of her brand. And when I say like,

584
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: their faces are neutral, like they look like they've had

585
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: like all these injectables, so they're just like there's no expression.

586
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: Oh really, yeah weird, but like the same long row.

587
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: It's like the kind of like slightly curled bottom hair,

588
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,479
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, like like kind of pumpkin

589
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 3: spice lady.

590
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: Hair, but they're a little bit of wave at the bottom.

591
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: Of Yeah, you know, I'm a I'm a hair aesthetic.

592
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: I'm a heretic.

593
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 3: So, like, can social media aesthetic or vibe be owned

594
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: or protected under traditional intellectual property law?

595
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: I don't think so unless you're doing like a like

596
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: you do you just say like, hey, I'm marsha On

597
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: Lynch and you spell Lynch differently, like then you can

598
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 2: any trouble.

599
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 4: Right.

600
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: The media loved this, this question this, They were all

601
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: over it. I mean, whether a personal asthetic could be

602
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: treated like a trade dress or other protected expression that

603
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: had no clear precedent.

604
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: That's like the Chubby Checker to Fats Domino.

605
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 3: Questions, it's Fats demeano.

606
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: This has been done. This is not a new question.

607
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 3: So Shield's attorney was all motion to dismiss your owner

608
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 3: on a lot of stuff. In late twenty twenty four.

609
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: The dismiss Your Honor.

610
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 3: The court ruled on the motions, dismissing some claims such

611
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 3: as torturous interference, while allowing core copyright, trade dress and

612
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 3: misappropriation of likeness claims to proceed into broader review. So

613
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,240
Speaker 3: here's the debate on the underlying legal issues. Copyright law

614
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: protects the specific expression of ideas like individual photos or videos,

615
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 3: but not broad ideas like a color palette or a

616
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: general style.

617
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 2: You can't copyright an idea.

618
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, this means that much of what Gifford was looking

619
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 3: to protect is like outside of copyright reach. Trade dress doctrine,

620
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: which is a form of trademark protection, protects distinctive visual

621
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: identifiers associated with a source of goods or services, but

622
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: only if such identifiers are recognized as unique and capable

623
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: of causing consumer confusion.

624
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: This is mickey mouse Well.

625
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: The most famous example is probably the Coca cola bottle, Yes,

626
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 3: there you go. Or the wax dripping from the cap

627
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: on a bottle of Tiffany Blue for their packaging, the

628
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 3: red bottom of a Christian Lubaton shoe, ok, the shape

629
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: of goldfish crackers that's protected, the red tab on a

630
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: pair of levies, and even the shape and colors used

631
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: in an ie hoop.

632
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,960
Speaker 2: I can see that because they're very distinctive.

633
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: Right, So there's a high legal burden to prove in

634
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: a crowded esthetic space that there's some sort of trade

635
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 3: ress doctrine there and.

636
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 2: The primacy you have to be the first, you can't

637
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: be the second.

638
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly. So by late twenty twenty four, experts they're

639
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 3: already treating the case as this bell weather for how

640
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 3: intellectual property laws are going to apply to digital creators

641
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: and influencer content. Is this brand new world?

642
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 2: If they say so, oh some com no one's ever

643
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 2: done it like this before because this is online.

644
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 5: Like oh okay, oh sure.

645
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 3: There were warnings that if the courts tried to enforce

646
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 3: something as broad as a quote vibe, a judge's risked

647
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 3: becoming arbiters of subjective aesthetic judgments.

648
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 2: Yes, you can't copyright a vibe.

649
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: No, so I've tried May twenty.

650
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 2: Prince ever copyright a vibe. It was such a specific vibe.

651
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 2: We're like no one else can do exactly.

652
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 3: May twenty eight, twenty twenty five, Gifford voluntarily dismissed all

653
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,400
Speaker 3: of her claims against Shield with prejudice, officially ending the litigation.

654
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 3: So when it's dismissed with prejudice, it means that she

655
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 3: can't refile. No monetary jamages are awarded to either side.

656
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 2: Don't be bringing us back in my courtroom.

657
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it came after mediation negotiation. Her lawyer said

658
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: that the cost and time of litigation influenced her decision

659
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 3: to withdraw from the case and then refocus on her business,

660
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 3: in personal life and her aesthetics.

661
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

662
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 3: Shield's attorney said that this was vindication. I'm sure that

663
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 3: both of these ladies were loving the fact that so

664
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 3: many Manila envelopes were used in filing.

665
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,240
Speaker 2: That some of the people are mentioning their whole beije

666
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: core thing anyway, that's helping their reach.

667
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 3: Right exactly, So they were like, you know what, Shield's

668
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 3: not paying anything. Claims are meritless. And then they went

669
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 3: on like her content was independently created and not based

670
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 3: on Giffords. Both of them made public statements to their

671
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 3: followers about their own perceptions of what happened, but it

672
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 3: became known as the Sad Beige lawsuit. And so the

673
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 3: Sad Beaije lawsuit did not result in a judicial opinion

674
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: establishing a new legal precedent, but it did really kind

675
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 3: of highlight the challenges that are facing influencers and intellectual

676
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 3: property law in this digital age. You know, there's this

677
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: difficulty of how do you apply traditional copyright and trademark

678
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 3: framework to non traditional quote content that's built around, built

679
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 3: around a brand. You know, they're not like individual protected

680
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 3: protectable works.

681
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. You can protect the Nike swoosh, but you

682
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: can't protect the Nike Vibe. Right.

683
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 3: You'll see a lot of coverage refer to this as

684
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 3: personal brand. But this is not something that these ladies

685
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 3: created whole cloth.

686
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: No, that's what I'm saying.

687
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: They're chilling products from Amazon. They are ads like, it's

688
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 3: not personal, and I think that's something that gets lost.

689
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 3: You talked about Martha earlier. So Martha Stewart created a vibe. Yes,

690
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 3: it was riffing off old money, and like fantasies of

691
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 3: gardens and cottages. But she wasn't shilling specific products until

692
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: she created her own products and then became a brand herself.

693
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 2: She shilled for her own stuff.

694
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 3: That's right. So she's a creator and influencer in my opinion,

695
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 3: I'm probably wrong, in which case everyone can just keep

696
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 3: it to them.

697
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 2: So I think she's an er influencer.

698
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she wasn't, like I said, she self directed

699
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 3: at first, and then so it wasn't like at the

700
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: behest of these brands that she was going out and

701
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 3: creating all this quote unquote content. Let's take a break.

702
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 3: Let's take an ad break. God bless them these ads.

703
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 3: When we come back, I have a doozy of an influencer.

704
00:37:40,239 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 5: Battle Zaren Elizabeth.

705
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 3: I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

706
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: That's the best place to do the scraping.

707
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 3: Let's go, bro, let's do it. Let's get down to

708
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 3: the bottom in this corner. Yes, we have Brian Johnson,

709
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 3: not the lead singer of a CDC, although I would

710
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 3: love for him to mix it up with an influencer.

711
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 3: And then, oddly enough, I'm not talking about the Brian

712
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 3: Johnson who's the tech guy trying to stop himself from aging.

713
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the guy.

714
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 3: Oh, he's fascinating to me. Here's this protocol he developed

715
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 3: called Blueprint, and he's like, so there's a very controlled

716
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 3: diet structure and meal timing. All of this is to

717
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 3: make it so that he doesn't age.

718
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, or he lives forever.

719
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's got like macros and all that he

720
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 3: doesn't eat afternoon. His menu is fixed, like his morning

721
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 3: drink is what he calls a longevity mix collagen, protein, creatine,

722
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 3: prebiotic fibers every day.

723
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 2: Sure, why not great?

724
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 3: And there's lots of exercise and movement. He does a

725
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,399
Speaker 3: daily sixty to ninety minute training block. That makes sense,

726
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 3: that's good.

727
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, move the body.

728
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 3: He has a set of sleep rules or routines.

729
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: Sleep rules rules, how he sleeps.

730
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 3: Consistent bedtime, oh okay, a wind down routine, which I

731
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 3: don't think is like mine of I'm going to watch Instagram.

732
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 2: Reels until the doom and my.

733
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 3: Bulk send them to my friends. He has a cool

734
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: bedroom temperature range. She avoids stimulants afternoon.

735
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, he's funny. I do a lot of these

736
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: things just naturally because I'm just a jerk because like,

737
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: I don't like to be over stimulated past noon or whatever.

738
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: Nobody needs that.

739
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't eat late, and I you know, I

740
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 3: like to kind of wind down. I only have one

741
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: cup of coffee in the morning. I don't really have

742
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 3: anything after stimulant wise after that I do.

743
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: Okay, never mind, I take it back. I like coffee

744
00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 2: all through out the day, but I don't considered a

745
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 2: stimulant because it doesn't really feel like it.

746
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 3: He takes a crazy number of supplements, some that are

747
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 3: sold as blueprint products.

748
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 2: And some not. And then the ones are fatish I think.

749
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 3: So I couldn't even get a full list. He takes

750
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: a ton of prescription medications. Oh really, Yeah, acrobos met Foreman,

751
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 3: Candice sartan Jardis, thyroid meds.

752
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 2: Any glucosamine android.

753
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: That's it. That would be ab oral monoxidyl repatha to dalophill.

754
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 3: None of these are to treat conditions other than getting older.

755
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 2: Also, isn't isn't monoxophyll for hair? Is that active? Ra?

756
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's doing that.

757
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,239
Speaker 2: I know. He used to be a redhead. Now he

758
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 2: has black hair.

759
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know how that happened. But yeah, thyroid

760
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: meds Jardians met Foreman. I don't know. He has a

761
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: whole skincare routine, of course, and then that prescription you

762
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 3: share the prescription hair growth meds. He uses red light

763
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: therapy for both his scalp and hair and then his

764
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 3: whole body. Oh, he does a hyperbaric oxygen therapy thing.

765
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 3: I'm sure he just soaks in it. He does. He

766
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 3: does young plasma exchanges Keith Richard style, including one involving

767
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:15,839
Speaker 3: his son.

768
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 2: What. Yeah, he's right, he takes his son, His son's

769
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 2: his blood boy.

770
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 3: Yes, it's very lance armstrong as it sounds exhausting. His

771
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 3: life sounds exhausting and sad and sad like I'm here

772
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: for a good time, not a long time.

773
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 2: You know how many people have tried this and no

774
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 2: one can pull it off. You'll be the guy to

775
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 2: list forever. I'm like, it's not going to be the

776
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 2: trust me. We're not there yet. No, we don't understand

777
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: enough about the human body for you to know what

778
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 2: buttons to even push combinations.

779
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,280
Speaker 3: And he's just taken all sorts of garbage.

780
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: And experimenting on himself too.

781
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: Might Yeah, he is no the Brian Johnson I'm talking

782
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 3: about is also known as liver King.

783
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 2: Oh lordy oh, I see it on social media.

784
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

785
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: I don't follow him, but occasionally someone who posed him and.

786
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: Lou That's what I'm talking about. He was born in

787
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy eight, an apparently landbag. He was really bullied

788
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: and picked on as a kid, and as a result,

789
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 3: he turned to fitness.

790
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 2: Of course, that's what friend durs Over did it.

791
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: He went to Texas Tech University and got a bachelor's

792
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,720
Speaker 3: in biochemistry. Okay, After graduation, he worked as a pharmaceutical

793
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 3: sales rep in Houston, and then he later you know,

794
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,040
Speaker 3: put money in on his wife's dental practice, so.

795
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 2: He was like selling oxycontins to the doctors.

796
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 3: Sure, and then social media came calling, of course, and

797
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 3: so he adopted the online persona liver King. Around twenty twenty,

798
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 3: he started promoting what he branded as quote ancestral lifestyle,

799
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 3: and this lifestyle philosophy had an emphasis on primal nutrition

800
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 3: and behaviors. So that meant eating like huge amounts of awe,

801
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 3: unprocessed organ meats.

802
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 2: So like the height of humanity. Yeah, do you hear yourself?

803
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: Animal fats? You know, he's all about that. Beef tallow

804
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 3: and other foods rooted in like this romanticized prehistoric diet.

805
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:16,400
Speaker 2: Okay.

806
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 3: His videos featured extreme workouts like ice plunges and these

807
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: elaborate strength challenges.

808
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,800
Speaker 2: Yes, so he was sure picking up boulders and stuff.

809
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 3: He went virals Aron. Of course he did TikTok Instagram YouTube.

810
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 2: Yes, he's a living cartoon character, yes.

811
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 3: And he had like millions of followers.

812
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: He's a short king too, right, so he's like kind

813
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 2: an extra spark plug energy.

814
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 3: Like, what's his name? Who's the little guy who always

815
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: poses on his tippy toes? Oh yeah, barstool Sports.

816
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Dave port Noid.

817
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's look up, Dave Portnoy's standing on his tippy

818
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 3: do tippy does are like posing anytime he's in a

819
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: picture with people. He's what like five foot four.

820
00:43:58,200 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 2: I don't know what he is, yeah, but I know

821
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: that he has showed me the photo he's on his

822
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 2: tippy toes, and it's like the question is is like

823
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: does the person's taking the photo? Obviously he thinks on purpose.

824
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: It seems like it's a dick move to really point

825
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 2: out what.

826
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 3: They have to and I applaud them for it. So uh,

827
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,439
Speaker 3: so okay. So he's this guy Liver King. He's got

828
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: millions of followers, and he's got a lucrative personal brand,

829
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 3: like he has this supplement company, Heart and Soil that

830
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 3: he and this doctor named Paul Salagino started a little

831
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 3: clos there and though but like his his company spin off,

832
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 3: like his brand is Ancestral Supplements, which like, right there

833
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:45,280
Speaker 3: is amazing I like, and he like reportedly he had

834
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 3: an annual revenue in the nine figure range at its peak.

835
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:54,520
Speaker 3: What yes, yes, so the Liver King.

836
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 2: I feel both bad for all the suckers who get

837
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: conned by these people, but at the same time, I

838
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: can't believe how many give ups so much money to these.

839
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: So he had these claims about achieving this physique purely

840
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 3: through the ancestral diet. But like all these medical professionals

841
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 3: are like, absolutely not, do not do that. Don't just

842
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 3: eat raw liver, chug eggs, and they like climb a

843
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 3: tree and scream like don't do it, do it for you? No,

844
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 3: They're like, this is really harmful. And then the whopper

845
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: not from Burger King. In late twenty twenty two, there

846
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: were these leaked internal emails that revealed that Johnson had

847
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: been secretly using anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.

848
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,279
Speaker 2: If you look at pictures of him with it, he

849
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,399
Speaker 2: always has his shirt off, so you see his chest

850
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 2: and all the way the veins go. You know that

851
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 2: that's an antibox steroid body.

852
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 3: And he was spending eleven thousand dollars a month on

853
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:53,320
Speaker 3: all these drugs.

854
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:55,920
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, wow.

855
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 3: And so he initially was like, no way, man, No,

856
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,439
Speaker 3: that's bogus man. But later he's like, okay, yeah, man,

857
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: like I did it. So he did a YouTube apology video.

858
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 2: It's one hundred and thirty two thousand dollars a year

859
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: just ster ruds.

860
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he acknowledged that, you know, he misled.

861
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:13,879
Speaker 2: His audience misled.

862
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 3: I love an apology video. They're always so terrible.

863
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 2: Oh totally, let's get past my foundational lie and just

864
00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 2: talk about it like it's a bummer. I did this.

865
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 3: So there's this whole scandal. Some of his followers filed

866
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,320
Speaker 3: a class action lawsuit against him and his supplement company,

867
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 3: claiming deception that was later discontinued. He also was the

868
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 3: subject of a twenty twenty five Netflix documentary called Untold

869
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 3: The Liver King, and it kind of traces his whole

870
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 3: you know. Okay, so that's him, and then in this

871
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: corner we have Joseph James Rogan Junior. You know him

872
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 3: as Joe Rogan Joe Rogan.

873
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 2: Huh.

874
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 3: He started his professional career as a stand up comedian

875
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 3: and the teen eighty eight Yes, and then he built

876
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 3: a name for himself in what I saw described as

877
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,280
Speaker 3: observational and often provocative comedy.

878
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: Huh.

879
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: You say so, I.

880
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: Think it's like really breaking out in news radio, Like yeah,

881
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: then he goes.

882
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 3: He broadens out in television, so he's on sitcoms, he's

883
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Speaker 3: on news radio, and then he gets a gig hosting

884
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 3: that weird show fear Fair Factor.

885
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,880
Speaker 2: That really when he became a star.

886
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then he got really deeply involved in mixed

887
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 3: martial arts ye early guy. Yeah, so in the like

888
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,279
Speaker 3: late nineties, early two thousands, he was working as a

889
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 3: commentator and an interviewer for Ultimate Fighting Championship UFC. In

890
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 3: two thousand and.

891
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:41,479
Speaker 2: Nine, like the John Madden of MM.

892
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 3: Yes. In two thousand and nine, he launched The Joe

893
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 3: Rogan Experience, a long form conversational podcast. Yeah, and you

894
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 3: know they have he has guests on from like really

895
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 3: diverse fields science, politics, entertainment, sports, culture. He's got tens

896
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: of millions of listeners. In twenty twenty, he signed an

897
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 3: exclusive licensing deal to take his podcast to Spotify. So

898
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: he also he has trained in Brazilian jiu jitsu since

899
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 3: the mid nineties and he has black belts in both

900
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 3: no Gi and ge forms. And he talks all the

901
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 3: time about martial arts training methods, physical conditioning on his podcast.

902
00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 3: And he has like really strong views I guess on

903
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 3: health training discipline. I'm sure it's not all roses for

904
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 3: old Joe. He's a polarizing figures.

905
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,760
Speaker 2: Eron the guy from the host of Fear Factor.

906
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: He's got this huge platform and let's just say he

907
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 3: isn't very careful about what he says. It takes the

908
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 3: stand up comedian when it comes to politics, public health,

909
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 3: drug policy, free speech, culture.

910
00:48:56,120 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: Jimmy put up on the board talk radio guy gone.

911
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 3: So uh, it's there that he crossed paths with Liver King.

912
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,760
Speaker 2: Oh my, can you imagine the conversations that they are em.

913
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,320
Speaker 3: You don't have to you have it. So by spring

914
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two, you know, Brian Johnson has turned

915
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 3: Liver King into this like viral masculinity and organ meat brand,

916
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 3: and the core promise is that his cartoonishly muscular physique

917
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,279
Speaker 3: comes from an ancestral lifestyle.

918
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:30,680
Speaker 2: From eating the organs of animals.

919
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 3: Then, Joe Rogan.

920
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 2: Are you want to go to kill your own or

921
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 2: you can go to the supermarket and just get some

922
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 2: organ made war enough as your ancestors would have done.

923
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 3: I have done so. Rogan. He you know his podcast

924
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 3: regularly functions as a think tank. Oh yeah, a cultural

925
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: loudspeaker to say on fitness. He clocked the act early

926
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 3: on and treated it as performance not revelation. Oh yeah,

927
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: he was on to him early on.

928
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 2: Too much of that false WATCHO.

929
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: One human growth hormone user to the other.

930
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: I saw it recog surreal.

931
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 3: So in a twenty twenty two profile of Johnson, GQ

932
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 3: talks about how Rogan dismissed Liver King's messages as a

933
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 3: quote gimmick, and then they landed the line that became

934
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 3: the feuds, like seed crystal quote. He has got an

935
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: ass filled with steroids is what that guy's got.

936
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 2: That's what Joe Rogan said, And they put include that

937
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 2: in the profile, And did Johnson get a respond to

938
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: that is the profile.

939
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 3: No, it mattered less because I mean it was cruel,

940
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 3: but Joe Rogan says things like that all the time.

941
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 3: Still it was more because it was aimed at the

942
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 3: exact fault line of the business model men's but steroids

943
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 3: and butts like you know, this isn't an ancestral lifestyle.

944
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: This came out of it steroids. So in late June

945
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,320
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty five, so at this point liver King's

946
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 3: life is spiraling out, okay Johnson, liver King started posting direct,

947
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 3: escalating videos addressing Joe Rogan, repeatedly framing it as like

948
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: a man to man on her challenge.

949
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: Oh I call you out to the oak tree. Oh yeah,

950
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: you show up shirtless.

951
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 3: We get down, zaren watch you to picture it. You

952
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:34,040
Speaker 3: are a wolf, or rather you were a wolf. You

953
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 3: met your maker and now you've been taxidermied, made into

954
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 3: a pelt with your head intact, and right now you're

955
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 3: resting on the head of Brian Johnson aka liver King.

956
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 3: You are in his living room. It's walls painted black,

957
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 3: various gold spray painted stencils adorning the space over the

958
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 3: fireplace and surrounding a full length mirror candelabras, rest on tables,

959
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 3: a battered leather club chairs behind you and beneath you.

960
00:52:03,360 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 3: Liver King. He is topless and wears black sweatpants, his

961
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:11,759
Speaker 3: beard long and his features rough. He stands with his

962
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 3: legs spread. He's just finished working out and is terribly dehydrated,

963
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 3: giving definition to his muscles and oddly shaped torso. His

964
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 3: belly button protrudes like a large cyst an OUTI, if

965
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 3: ever there was one. You once prowled the woods and

966
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: bayed at the moon. You are now perched on the

967
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: sweaty scalp of a madman. He holds two guns, both

968
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 3: with impossibly large barrels, one plated in gold. Before you

969
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 3: is a tripod and a ring light, and inside of

970
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 3: it an iPhone. Liver King scurries over to press record,

971
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 3: then takes a few paces back and hunches forward in

972
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 3: attack stance. He clears his throat.

973
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 5: Joe.

974
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 3: His voice is rough. He clears his throat again. He

975
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,760
Speaker 3: takes in his looking back at him from the selfie

976
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 3: mode iPhone. He turns his head this way and that

977
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 3: raises his chin, lowers it. He widens his dance a

978
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:13,240
Speaker 3: little more and then begins again. Joe Rogan, I'm calling

979
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,919
Speaker 3: you out. My name's Liver King Man to man, I'm

980
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 3: picking a fight with you. Yeah. His left leg vibrates

981
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 3: in an odd tremor. He rants a little more about

982
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 3: rules and such. You can't really make out what he's saying.

983
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 3: You're a liar. You can't pick a fight with a

984
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,799
Speaker 3: real king and expect there not to be an actual fight.

985
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 4: Bro.

986
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:39,040
Speaker 3: He leans back and laughs a maniacal chuckle. He then

987
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 3: straightens up and walks over to the phone, ceasing the recording.

988
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 3: He sets the guns down on the table and lifts

989
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 3: you from his head. He restsued gently atop of the guns.

990
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 3: He leaves the room, mumbling to himself. You have never

991
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 3: wished more for a house fire than you are now.

992
00:53:56,560 --> 00:54:00,240
Speaker 3: All you want is to be consumed and cleansed in flame,

993
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,400
Speaker 3: allowed to return to the earth that cradled you.

994
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 2: Oh man, I hear these things, and I just like

995
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 2: I want to say, like I knew Randy Macho man Savage,

996
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 2: and you, sir, are no Randy Mochu Man Savage.

997
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 4: It is.

998
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:18,920
Speaker 2: The radios.

999
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 3: The videos are so uncomfortable, I bet, and I have

1000
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 3: to say that when I went when I went to

1001
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 3: watch the various videos which were totally untinged. The lead

1002
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 3: in ads were bonkers too, Okay, Like there was this

1003
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 3: one with a guy just like standing in his kitchen

1004
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,040
Speaker 3: and he's saying how people need to drink warm water

1005
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:40,640
Speaker 3: with cinnamon dissolved in it before bedtime to eliminate blood parasites.

1006
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,279
Speaker 2: Blood parasites. Oh yeah, and sure, why not?

1007
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,919
Speaker 3: So this is the point where the beef shifted from

1008
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:53,040
Speaker 3: internet heckling into something that law enforcement could interpret as

1009
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,560
Speaker 3: a threat. So the posts were just like general trash

1010
00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 3: talk about training or ideology. He starts doing all this

1011
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 3: stuff where he's like directly summoning Joe Rogan like in Austin, Texas,

1012
00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 3: and the visuals that read as menacing to outsiders. Crime.

1013
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 3: This is a crime.

1014
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 2: So it starts like wrestling promo energy like I'm going.

1015
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 3: To and he's like, I am coming to get.

1016
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 2: You her address.

1017
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 3: So, according to Austin Police, is quoted by ABC News,

1018
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 3: detectives quote reviewed the posts and observed that Johnson quote

1019
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 3: was traveling to Austin while continuing to make threatening statements.

1020
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 3: So like he keeps getting out and taking more videos

1021
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: and the travel is crucial, Like it turns a loud

1022
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 3: instagram dare into this scenario, right, we got a person

1023
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:48,680
Speaker 3: with a large platform posting about a fight with weapons.

1024
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 5: On toward the target city.

1025
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 3: So the detectives contact Joe Rogan, who quote had never

1026
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: had any interaction with Johnson and considered the post to

1027
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 3: be threatening. And so then the police they get an

1028
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: arrest warrant for a terroristic threat charge. Oh Mma. Fighting

1029
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 3: Magazine later added an important connective detail. Sure police were

1030
00:56:11,280 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 3: initially contacted by a member of Rogan's security team as

1031
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 3: the videos escalated, So it's not like they saw them

1032
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 3: themselves or stumbled upon him. Like Joe Rogan's security was like, hey, guys,

1033
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 3: I'm gonna send you a link.

1034
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:23,879
Speaker 5: Now.

1035
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 2: Do you think that that was to give like one

1036
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,799
Speaker 2: degree of removed from Joe Rogan, Yeah, rather than him

1037
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: the cause.

1038
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

1039
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 2: Since his kung fu wouldn'tet him out of there, what.

1040
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:43,360
Speaker 3: So, like, this is a security problem and Rogan's side

1041
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 3: sees the posts, they see the travel, they like, something

1042
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,320
Speaker 3: has to be done before these guys a ninch.

1043
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 2: That's the thing is that you don't with something like this,

1044
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: You won't know that he's going to do a crime

1045
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 2: till he does. The crime exactly.

1046
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 3: So they find him. The cops find Liver King at

1047
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,840
Speaker 3: the Four Season was in downtown Austin, and they arrest

1048
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 3: him on misdemeanor terroristic threat charges. He was there with

1049
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: his dogs and he was they had made a video

1050
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 3: like these were like dorments or something, and he was like,

1051
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 3: I'm here with my dogs and we're going to get you.

1052
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 3: But do I really love that he was at the

1053
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:20,960
Speaker 3: Four Seasons.

1054
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 2: That's the best detail.

1055
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,240
Speaker 3: Is just like the ancestors would have done.

1056
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: And you can picture him like the really plush robe

1057
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 2: they give you, and he's gone around like eating his liver.

1058
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 3: Belly button, popping his erect belly button.

1059
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 2: He's got like a ice chest of raw meat and

1060
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:38,640
Speaker 2: he's like, I need a bigger fridge exactly.

1061
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 3: And so Johnson posted a video showing moments before the

1062
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 3: arrest and he's just like pacing around and talking about

1063
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,160
Speaker 3: impending prison time and a fight with Rogan. Yeah, the

1064
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 3: cops show up, he's cuffed led away.

1065
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 2: The consequence total.

1066
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 3: So after booking, his release conditions were not like the

1067
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 3: slack on the risk kind. So the Houston Chronicle reported

1068
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 3: that Bond was sad at twenty thousand dollars, and conditions

1069
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 3: included no contact with Joe Rogan, which I'd be like fine,

1070
00:58:11,160 --> 00:58:14,040
Speaker 3: and staying two hundred yards away from Rogan and his family,

1071
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 3: plus mental health supervision and evaluation. So like, if this

1072
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 3: you're starting to see, like this conflict's shape is pretty clear.

1073
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,960
Speaker 3: It's not too loud, Guys arguing it's a public figure

1074
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 3: with a massive platform, a perceived threat. Police report guys,

1075
00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 3: not so well, it's.

1076
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 2: Well ahead, like road rage incident. Yeah, just the road

1077
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:36,400
Speaker 2: rage was traveling.

1078
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 3: I'm sure that there was a fear factor. So the

1079
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 3: criminal complaints said that the police believed that Johnson's behavior

1080
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 3: exhibited some you know, signs of like a mental health episode. Sure,

1081
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 3: and then he could be a danger to himself for others,

1082
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 3: And so you can see why then it goes to

1083
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 3: like no contact orders. There was no no sanctioned fight,

1084
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,720
Speaker 3: no Rogan appearance, no public resolution between the two guys.

1085
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 3: The court process just ran out. He ran out the clock.

1086
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 3: Travis County Criminal Court confirmed the charges against Johnson were dismissed,

1087
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 3: like it just faded away. What's wild is how many

1088
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 3: videos spun off from these videos. So there are so

1089
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 3: many videos with commentary on the original videos on the

1090
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,600
Speaker 3: whole situation, And that gets into two of my other

1091
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 3: pet peeves when it comes to online content and social media.

1092
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:35,920
Speaker 3: I can't stand when someone posts a video of themselves

1093
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 3: sitting in the front seat of their car, trying to

1094
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 3: lecture me on something like you're automatically not an expert

1095
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 3: in that moment.

1096
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: I'm a little more forgiving on that. The thing that

1097
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:49,400
Speaker 2: I cannot abide is I'm watching a video of one person.

1098
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:50,439
Speaker 2: There's a split screen.

1099
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 3: I'm getting I'm getting to that, But the ones who

1100
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:56,040
Speaker 3: sit in the car, they like drag out whatever they're saying.

1101
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:00,120
Speaker 3: There's lots of preamble and repetition. If someone I know

1102
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 3: forwards me a video like that, I refuse to watch it.

1103
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 3: I see someone in the seat of their car, I'm like, no,

1104
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 3: I'm not watching it. The other one is what you're

1105
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 3: talking about, Like, I guess they call it like a stitch.

1106
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 3: So there's the original video where someone is then superimposed

1107
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 3: over the top, either pointing or nodding or doing like

1108
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 3: an outsized reaction.

1109
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's multiple ways. Yeah, there's a superimposed where they

1110
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:23,439
Speaker 2: they just see them like kind of floating. Are either

1111
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,240
Speaker 2: above or below or to the side. And then the

1112
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: other one is the literal split screen, which is like

1113
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:31,760
Speaker 2: I would, and they're taking up space just to make faces.

1114
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 3: At me nod like the nodding. The other one that's

1115
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 3: I keep seeing now it really irritates me is when

1116
01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 3: people will scroll through the comments, funny comments on something

1117
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 3: and just crack up about it.

1118
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:45,959
Speaker 2: They don't read them or make.

1119
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,640
Speaker 3: It, No, they just yeah, it's just them like wheezing, laughing.

1120
01:00:48,680 --> 01:00:50,960
Speaker 3: I hate those. Hate is a strong word, and I

1121
01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,640
Speaker 3: use it on purpose here. So and I also you

1122
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,160
Speaker 3: know now that they're letting me vent for one seron, please,

1123
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:01,840
Speaker 3: I can't stand all the like fight videos or videos

1124
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 3: of bigots acting badly in public or like people wilding out.

1125
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 3: Like I know that stuff exists, and the videos exist

1126
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: to get us all riled up. And that's not the

1127
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 3: stuff to get riled up over right.

1128
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 2: It does water down the ridge.

1129
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like we have more urgent, route worthy issues. Yes,

1130
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 3: I don't care about someone getting slapped in a taco bell, right, yeah.

1131
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,520
Speaker 3: And I don't want to be so mad. I don't

1132
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 3: want to be so worked up. I want peace and

1133
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 3: quiet and safety and creativity and community. And we don't

1134
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 3: have that right now.

1135
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 2: Or if you are going to get into fight, it

1136
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:36,280
Speaker 2: better be one of the most epic crazy like guy

1137
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 2: gets knocked off of a cliff by a donkey.

1138
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 3: No, no, I don't want to see that.

1139
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 2: No I do. I want to see that. I want

1140
01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: to see that.

1141
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 3: I you know what, a man.

1142
01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 2: Fights an animal and loses. I will watch that every

1143
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: time kangaroo beats up a man.

1144
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 3: For all of this, I put blame on both social

1145
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 3: media and reality TV, among other things, obviously, But and

1146
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 3: then now I'm just gonna go check my instagram, Zaren well,

1147
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 3: I look for reels to forward to you. What's your

1148
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 3: ridiculous takeaway.

1149
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: I can't believe I admitted to you that I will

1150
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: really am a huge fan and victim of the genre

1151
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:17,160
Speaker 2: of man fights animals videos like I don't like watching

1152
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 2: like two people fight generally, and like listen to some

1153
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 2: like righteous moment or some like they're getting justice through

1154
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: the violence, and I can watch it and I have

1155
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 2: no problem, no qualms. No, But if it's an animal,

1156
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:30,959
Speaker 2: like I don't feel the least. But you know, of course,

1157
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 2: I know it's like I'm always written for the animals, you.

1158
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 3: Know, well, they hope the animals always win.

1159
01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 2: I'm a get on, mister bear, get them. I don't

1160
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 2: want to see like graphic gore, but I do want

1161
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 2: to see like the man get scared up a tree

1162
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 2: by a coyote whatever. I'm like, yeah, you tried to

1163
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 2: fight a coyote and realized it was a coyote after

1164
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 2: the fact. I don't care what happens. So I'm a

1165
01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,200
Speaker 2: silly sod that way, and I admit it. What's yours, Elizabeth?

1166
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 3: I wish takeaways. I wish that just for once, you

1167
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 3: let me vent.

1168
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:01,720
Speaker 2: I'm trying. I'm really trying.

1169
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's have a talk back.

1170
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:19,760
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Hello Jeet, Hey Elizabeth.

1171
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 6: So I heard about the black garlic gerrito dip. Sounds interesting,

1172
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:27,919
Speaker 6: but I'd like to let you know that I've made

1173
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:32,280
Speaker 6: black garlic sugar cookies. One of my coworkers said it

1174
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 6: tasted like Christmas. I did add ginger to it, but

1175
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,480
Speaker 6: give it a try. Okay, love the show.

1176
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 3: Bye, black garlic sugar cookies and ginger.

1177
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:46,640
Speaker 2: So it's like a ginger snap.

1178
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,440
Speaker 3: I am very intrigued. All right, I'm gonna look up

1179
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 3: a recipe. Thank you for that hot tip. That's it

1180
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 3: for today. You can find us online at ridiculous Crime

1181
01:03:56,680 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 3: dot com. We're also Ridiculous Crime. I'm Blue Sky Instagram,

1182
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 3: Social Media. Let's see YouTube as Ridiculous Crime pod. You

1183
01:04:06,480 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 3: can email us at Ridiculous Crime at gmail dot com,

1184
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 3: leave a talk back on the iHeart app. Please please,

1185
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 3: please do so reach out. Ridiculous Crime is hosted by

1186
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Dutton and Zara Burnett, produced and edited by Kidney King,

1187
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 3: Dave Kusten starring Emilie Rutger as Judith. Research is by

1188
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:33,080
Speaker 3: Spleen Queen, Marissa Brown and Baron Vaughan. Appendix Jabari Davis.

1189
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,000
Speaker 3: The theme song is by Duke of Thyroid Thomas Lee

1190
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 3: and Sinus Cavity Prince Travis Dutton. Host wardrobe is provided

1191
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 3: by Botany five hundred. Guest hair and makeup by Sparkleshot

1192
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 3: and mister Andre. Executive producers are inventor of the Happy

1193
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 3: Beije aesthetic, Ben Bolan and rival Happy Beije influencer Noel Brown.

1194
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,080
Speaker 3: Why Say It One More Time?

1195
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 2: Ridiqulious Crime.

1196
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts

1197
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1198
01:05:11,840 --> 01:05:13,280
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows,