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Speaker 1: Nelson Serrano emigrated from Ecuador to the US in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty four, building a family a successful business, and in

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Speaker 1: the late eighties joined forces with two partners, George Gonzalvez

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Speaker 1: and Phil Dosso. Meanwhile, Phil's son Frank, had a side

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Speaker 1: business trafficking drugs from Miami to New York. A nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety six drug bus left Frank a million dollars in

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Speaker 1: debt to some dangerous characters, which coincided with an unapproved

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Speaker 1: withdrawal from the business in that amount, causing a rift

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Speaker 1: between the partners. Then, on December third, nineteen ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: in the wake of a second drug bust, four people

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Speaker 1: were shot and killed at their factory in Bartow, Florida.

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Speaker 1: Frank Dosso, his sister Diane, her husband George, as well

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Speaker 1: as George Gonzalvez. Due to the ongoing rift, attention focused

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Speaker 1: on Nelson Serrano, even though he was in Atlanta at

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Speaker 1: the time of the murders. Years of investigation turned up

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Speaker 1: zero evidence against Nelson, so he retired to Ecuador in

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Speaker 1: two thousand, but when pressure mounted in Florida, authorities indicted

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Speaker 1: Nelson anyway, Floridian authorities circumvented Ecuador's requests for evidence and

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Speaker 1: concerns over the death penalty, and instead arranged to have

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Speaker 1: Nelson kidnapped and illegally brought to the US. Prosecutors ignored

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Speaker 1: evidence of a multiple shooter drug hit and instead presented

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Speaker 1: false evidence and an impossible theory of Nelson's guilt that

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Speaker 1: is disproven by video timestamps and the limits of reality. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: the jury was fooled and sentenced Nelson to death. His

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Speaker 1: attorney as well as his son Francisco, join us now

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Speaker 1: to share the current status of his case. This is

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jason Floman. Honestly, I don't even know if I'm ready

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Speaker 1: for this episode. It's an international story and it involves

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Speaker 1: a middle aged Ecuadorian man named Nelson Serrano, a guy

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Speaker 1: who had no prior record of any kind. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if he ever had a parking ticket. This

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Speaker 1: is a guy who was a very successful businessman who

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Speaker 1: was illegally kidnapped from Ecuador by the State of Florida,

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Speaker 1: and they did it in order so that they could

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Speaker 1: prosecute him for a quadruple murder for which he had

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Speaker 1: an air tight alibi. But as we record this and

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Speaker 1: Nelson Serrano is eighty three years old and still on

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Speaker 1: death row in Florida. So without further ado, please allow

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Speaker 1: me to introduce the son of Nelson Serrano, who is

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Speaker 1: it's fiercest advocate and a son that I'm sure mister

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Speaker 1: Serrano couldn't be more proud of. Francisco Serrano. I'm so

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Speaker 1: sorry you're here today under these circumstances, but thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: And joining him is Greg Eisenmenger, who as the attorney

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Speaker 1: for mister Serrano and who is fighting tooth and nail

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Speaker 1: to save this man's life while he still has some

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Speaker 1: life left to live. So Greg, thank you for taking

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Speaker 1: the time to be here with us today.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much for including me so.

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Speaker 1: Nelson Serrano was born in Ecuador in nineteen thirty eight.

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Speaker 1: He was educated at the University of Rosario in Argentina.

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Speaker 1: I was a businessman in his home country before emigrated

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Speaker 1: to the United States way back in nineteen sixty four

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Speaker 1: and then becoming an American citizen in nineteen seventy one. Francisco,

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Speaker 1: tell us about your dad.

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Speaker 2: Sure in nineteen sixty four. My father came here with

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Speaker 2: a few dollars in his pocket and his wife to

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Speaker 2: be my mother. They went to New York, got married,

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Speaker 2: found a job as a draftsman. Little by little in

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Speaker 2: this world of engineering, he made a name for himself

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Speaker 2: over his designs. He got picked up by one of

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Speaker 2: the biggest companies in material handling at the time, and

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Speaker 2: little by little climbed the ladder in different companies till

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Speaker 2: he formed his own in nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 1: I mean this like one of those really beautiful immigrant

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Speaker 1: success stories. And it was until this Saturday came to pass.

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Speaker 1: Nelson started a company right, his own company, Garment Conveyor Systems.

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Speaker 1: It was called it. He partnered with another company called

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Speaker 1: Eerie Manufacturing Cooperative, which was started by Phil Dosso and

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Speaker 1: George Gonzalvez. And in the late nineteen eighties the three

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Speaker 1: men decided to become business partners, equal shareholders in each company,

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Speaker 1: and they moved both businesses from New York to Bartow, Florida.

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Speaker 1: And after the relocation you started working there as well, Francisco,

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Speaker 1: and things really started to take off.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: He took their business from barely scratching up to a

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Speaker 2: million dollars a year in sales to going past nine

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Speaker 2: million within a few years. So everything was going great.

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Speaker 2: But then things went downhill from there.

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Speaker 1: And things went downhill in a profoundly terrifying way, which

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Speaker 1: brings us to Nelson's business partner's son, Frank Dosso, who

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Speaker 1: had also come down from New York to join the

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Speaker 1: family business, starting at forty five thousand a year with

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Speaker 1: the promise of moving up in the business. So it

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Speaker 1: seems that instead of waiting for that to pan out,

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Speaker 1: Frank got involved in drug trafficking with a Staten Island

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Speaker 1: man named Bobby Venaria, in which he began an operation

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Speaker 1: moving large amounts of cocaine from Miami to New York.

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Speaker 1: And in December of ninety six, the DEEA busted one

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Speaker 1: of these moves and Veneria held Frank responsible to the

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Speaker 1: tune of one million dollars. And then, coincidentally or not,

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Speaker 1: in April nineteen ninety seven, well, tell us what happened, Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I get back from one of my business trips

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Speaker 2: and I have to do my due diligence every month, right,

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Speaker 2: check the bank records, strike in style accounts, and then

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Speaker 2: I noticed there's a million dollars missing from the jumbo

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Speaker 2: money market. So of course they immediately go to the

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Speaker 2: bank and go, hey, what happened here, and they say, well,

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Speaker 2: George pulled that money out. Went to George and failed

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Speaker 2: and said why did you do that? And they just

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Speaker 2: looked at me and they said, we don't have to

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Speaker 2: tell you anything. We're two shareholders and we can do

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Speaker 2: anything we want. So of course I call my father up.

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Speaker 2: He's on a busines the strip, and I tell him

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Speaker 2: what goes on. He calls them, they tell him the

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Speaker 2: same thing. My father comes back early from his business trip,

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Speaker 2: confronts them with the corporate attorney and the corporate accountant.

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Speaker 2: Basically says to them, you guys got to return that money.

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Speaker 2: You can't do this. This is embezzlement, this is fraud.

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Speaker 2: And they said no, it's two against one. So they said,

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Speaker 2: all right, well then I got assue you. And it

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Speaker 2: didn't make any sense. We're doing incredible, our reputation in

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Speaker 2: the industry is at its highest. It didn't make any

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Speaker 2: sense until later with what this million dollars meant. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: the police to save his son's life, but at the

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Speaker 2: time there was just no reasoning behind.

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Speaker 1: It, so Nelson sued Dasso and Gunzalvez, who then demoted

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Speaker 1: Nelson from president to general manager, removed his access to

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Speaker 1: accounting and changed the locks on the building. So Nelson quit.

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Speaker 1: Now this brings us to December third, nineteen ninety seven.

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Speaker 1: Frank Dasso, George Gunzalvez, Diane Patisso, and George Patiso was

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Speaker 1: shot and killed at the Eerie Manufacturing plant in Barto, Florida.

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Speaker 1: Diane Patiso was Phil Dosso's daughter, but she was also

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Speaker 1: an assistant States attorney. Get that, and that evening she

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Speaker 1: went to pick up her brother Frank and her husband

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Speaker 1: George Patisso at the factory to go back home for

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Speaker 1: a family birthday party. Talk about wrong place, wrong time,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like she may have walked in on

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Speaker 1: something terrible that was about to go down and got

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Speaker 1: pulled tragically, got pulled into it. So Phil in the details.

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Speaker 2: Here, it appears the shooting started where Diane Patisso's body

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Speaker 2: laid and then the three men found in the one

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Speaker 2: office all killed with small caliber weapons, short range shots,

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Speaker 2: execution style and was actually termed as an execution you know,

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Speaker 2: a hired hit type of murders.

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Speaker 3: Family members began calling Frank Dosso did not get an answer,

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Speaker 3: so Phil Dosso and his wife, Nicoletto, drove to the plant.

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Speaker 3: Phil stayed in the car, sending his wife in the

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Speaker 3: front door of the facility. When she went into the

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Speaker 3: front door of the facility and immediately saw the body

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Speaker 3: of her daughter, Diane, she started screaming. Phil left the car,

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Speaker 3: called nine on one and ran into the building and

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Speaker 3: he ran pass his daughter and into Frank's office. Nicoletta

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Speaker 3: moved her daughter's body, cradling her or holding her. Phil

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Speaker 3: tracked bloody footprints into Frank's office and the other three

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Speaker 3: people were found in Frank's office. Blood splatter evidence shows

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Speaker 3: that George Batistia was actually shot at least one time

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Speaker 3: and a different part of the facility before he was

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Speaker 3: brought into Frank's office and executed.

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Speaker 1: When officers arrived that evening, they found fourteen shellcasings, eleven

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Speaker 1: from a twenty two caliber weapon, one from a thirty

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Speaker 1: two which was pulled from Diane, and two from a

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Speaker 1: thirty caliber rifle in Frank's arm. Now, all of the

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Speaker 1: victims had been shot in the head with twenty two

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Speaker 1: caliber bullets execution style, and the murder weapons were never located. Now,

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Speaker 1: the crime scene provided no clear physical evidence to link

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Speaker 1: anyone to the crime, let alone Nelson, although relatives of

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Speaker 1: the victims immediately pointed fingers at Nelson because of all

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Speaker 1: the bad blood and the current litigation. Now, there were

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Speaker 1: some shoe prints that didn't match the Dosos or the victims,

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Speaker 1: but no fingerprints or biological evidence from anyone but the

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Speaker 1: victims was present, which makes it sound an awful lot

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Speaker 1: like a professional hit. As we go through the evidence

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Speaker 1: from the crime scene, it strains the imagination to think

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Speaker 1: that one single person could have carried out this awful crime.

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Speaker 1: As the state eventually contended.

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Speaker 3: These four people, according to blood splatter evidence, were shot

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Speaker 3: at three different locations in the facility. So you've got

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Speaker 3: one guy running around shooting people in different locations, moving

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Speaker 3: at least one wounded person from one location to another

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Speaker 3: where the final execution took place, and killing the assistant

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Speaker 3: state attorney I am in a completely different location. Now,

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Speaker 3: at least two guns were clearly used in this, and

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Speaker 3: the evidence suggests that there was three. Well, one of

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Speaker 3: them is a long rifle, two of them are handguns,

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Speaker 3: and less. Serrano grew an extra arm. One person cannot

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Speaker 3: manage three weapons and four people, So this is significant

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Speaker 3: evidence that shows that there were two shooters involved. Then

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Speaker 3: you start to talk about all the blood that this

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Speaker 3: would have created. When the deceased were discovered, some of

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Speaker 3: the family members actually walked in the blood, and there

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Speaker 3: were bloody footprints by them later matched up to their shoes.

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Speaker 3: Yet no blood was ever found on anything belonging to

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Speaker 3: Nelson Serrano.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk later about the prosecution's crazy theory

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Speaker 1: that Nelson drove a Renzl car to and from airports

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Speaker 1: to make flights in an unbelievably tight travel itinerary. Yet

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Speaker 1: where's the blood evidence in the alleged rental car. His

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Speaker 1: body and clothing would have been covered in blood if

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Speaker 1: he shot four people, right, where did he manage to

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Speaker 1: stop and rinse off all of this blood evidence? They

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Speaker 1: never answered that question. Well, come back to the state's

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Speaker 1: impossible theory in a minute, But first let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the eyewitnesses, because again this is another super strong indication

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Speaker 1: that Nelson's Serrano did not commit this crime. Now, eyewitnesses

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Speaker 1: said there were several Latin or Asian men in their

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Speaker 1: twenties and thirties at the scene, and a man named

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Speaker 1: John Purvis, who worked across the street from the factory,

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Speaker 1: said that when he left work that day, he noticed

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Speaker 1: a beige luxury vehicle, perhaps a Cadillac part next to

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Speaker 1: Erie's main entrance, and he saw a man on the

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Speaker 1: side of the road lighting a cigarette.

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Speaker 2: When Purvis comes out of the driveway of where he works,

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Speaker 2: his car is pointing right at Eerie Manufacturing, and that's

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Speaker 2: where he sees this young guy who's well dressed. Right,

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Speaker 2: he's got a blazer, he's got a sweater, ves and

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Speaker 2: the whole thing, which is not common in rural Bartow

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Speaker 2: so that stood out. And then he sees that this

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Speaker 2: kid is trying to light a cigarette when it's windy.

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Speaker 2: He's so close to him that he's able to see

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Speaker 2: that he's got a Zippo type lighter and that it's silver,

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Speaker 2: and that he's lighting a cigarette. And he's able to

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Speaker 2: tell you that he's got jet black hair.

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Speaker 1: Which doesn't sound like a description of Nelson, who is

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Speaker 1: nearly sixty years old at that point and well known

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Speaker 1: to smoke a pipe, not cigarettes. But despite the lack

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Speaker 1: of evidence, Nelson and Francisco continued to be targeted and

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Speaker 1: thoroughly investigated, even harassed. Officers searched Nelson's house, where several

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Speaker 1: guns were found. After all, Nelson did collect guns. However,

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Speaker 1: none of Nelson's guns matched the murder weapons, and a

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Speaker 1: paraffin test showed conclusively that Nelson had not fired a weapon.

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Speaker 1: Now let me not leave out the complicity of the

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Speaker 1: media in this slow moving disaster, right because the media

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Speaker 1: ran with the story of Nelson as the prime suspect,

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Speaker 1: always displaying his picture when the story and referring to

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Speaker 1: him as quote the Mexican which is like any old

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Speaker 1: brown country will do, right, I mean, oh, and Francisco,

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Speaker 1: if I'm understanding this correctly, They were targeting you at

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Speaker 1: the time, as well as your dad, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We realized that because I was suing the company

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Speaker 2: basically George and Phil for breach of contract from my

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Speaker 2: employment agreement, and my father was suing them for the

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Speaker 2: money they took that, you know, they would want to

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Speaker 2: look at us. So from day one we cooperated. When

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Speaker 2: they asked to do a paraffin test on me, I

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Speaker 2: didn't have a problem with it, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: was looking to help. So my father came back early

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Speaker 2: from his business trip just so he can come in

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Speaker 2: and see what he could help with. This is the

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Speaker 2: way we were until they started targeting us and making

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Speaker 2: our lives miserable. The searches in my father's home, the

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Speaker 2: tapping of the phones and of our emails, and the

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Speaker 2: way they went after all our friends. It was just crazy.

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Speaker 2: I can't even believe that it really happened.

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Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Meanwhile, investigators received

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Speaker 1: an eyewitness account that should have busted this case wide

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Speaker 1: open and tied together all of the loose threads. And

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Speaker 1: of course, I'm referring to the statements from Robert Fowler.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, a man named Robert Fowler was

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Speaker 1: in jail at unrelated charges and reached out to police

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Speaker 1: with information about this crime looking for lateiency in his

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Speaker 1: own case. Now, normally, jail house informants are not to

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Speaker 1: be bled unless what they're saying is corroborated by the

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Speaker 1: physical evidence, and in this case it was like Frank Dosso.

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Speaker 1: Robert Fowler worked for Bobby Vanaria, the Staten Island drug dealer.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety seven, the DEA busted Frank's trafficking operation

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Speaker 1: for the second time. Bowler said that after this, Venaria

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Speaker 1: was done with Frank Dosso and sent two hitmen, Anton

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Speaker 1: and a guy named Binny Aspirins. You can't make those

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Speaker 1: names up. He sent these guys to Florida to kill Frank. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to mister Fowler, the hitmen found Frank at erie.

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Speaker 1: They had two lookouts. They confronted the group and demanded

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Speaker 1: that Frank come with them. Diane Patisso was there and

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Speaker 1: identified herself as an assistant state's attorney and told them

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Speaker 1: to leave, and that's when the shooting started. Diane was killed,

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Speaker 1: the men scattered, George was shot somewhere else in the factory,

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Speaker 1: and then the three men were corralled into the office

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Speaker 1: where they were killed execution style. That's the statement from

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Speaker 1: mister Fowler, and it makes sense. It's the first thing

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Speaker 1: we've heard that actually makes sense. The work was done

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Speaker 1: for them at this point. And it's not like Fowler

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Speaker 1: is trying to help the Serranos. He doesn't even know

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Speaker 1: the Serranos. He was just trying to help himself. And

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Speaker 1: you don't just make up information. It matches the crime

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Speaker 1: scene to a t and less law enforcement veue that information.

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Speaker 1: But they hadn't because if they had, investigators wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: ignored Fowler's statement and instead let the case go cold. Now, eventually,

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Speaker 1: in two thousand, your dad did what he had always

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Speaker 1: planned to do, from my understanding, which was to retire

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Speaker 1: to Ecuador after a life well lived. Right, and that's

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Speaker 1: where this story of Nelson Serrano should have ended, peacefully,

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Speaker 1: back at home in Ecuador.

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Speaker 3: It's important to note that Nelson has dual citizenship. He

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Speaker 3: has natural citizenship of Ecuador and he was a naturalized

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Speaker 3: citizen of the United States. He liquidated business interests and

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Speaker 3: moved Ecuador to the place of this birth. This was

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Speaker 3: later mischaracterized at trial as him fleeing to Ecuador to

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Speaker 3: avoid prosecution, but there was no reason for him to

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Speaker 3: believe that he was still a suspect in this crime

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Speaker 3: when he moved back to Ecuador.

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Speaker 1: Right because they had no evidence against him. But back

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Speaker 1: at Bartow, Florida, people were upset that no perpetrator had

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Speaker 1: been found for this crime. After all, the local media

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Speaker 1: had held up your father's picture and told the public

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Speaker 1: for years that the quote Mexican, the Mexican did it.

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Speaker 1: And so on May seventeenth, two thousand and one, Nelson

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Speaker 1: Serrano was indicted on four counts of first degree murder

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Speaker 1: and his extradition was requested from Ecuador.

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Speaker 3: So at that point Tommy Ray, who's the investigating agent

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Speaker 3: in this case, and Assistant State Attorney Paul Wallace traveled

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Speaker 3: to Ecuador and arguably they're going to Ecuador to seek

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Speaker 3: Nelson Serrano's extradition. They discovered Ecuador under no circumstances would

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Speaker 3: extradite mister Serrano if he was going to be facing

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Speaker 3: the death penalty. Additionally, Ecuador requested information about the particulars

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Speaker 3: of the evidence that would show Nelson Serrano was involved

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Speaker 3: in this before they would extradite him. At that point,

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Speaker 3: Wallace and Ray pretty much broke off any attempt to

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Speaker 3: extradite mister Serrano legally. Instead, according to Tommy Ray's own testimony,

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Speaker 3: they came into contact with someone who was associated with

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Speaker 3: the American Embassy and Ecuador, who had previously worked for

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Speaker 3: the DEA, and he connected Tommy Ray to some Ecuadorian

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Speaker 3: police officers that he had worked with while he was

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Speaker 3: with the DEA. Some money exchanged hands, mister Ray says

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Speaker 3: that was for expenses only, But the upshot of that

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Speaker 3: was that Nelson was snatched up off of the street,

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Speaker 3: taken before a sham extradition hearing on the theory that

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Speaker 3: he was not an Ecuadorian citizen, which was untrue. The

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Speaker 3: sham proceeding took about fifteen minutes, and then they took

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Speaker 3: him from that place, suck him in a dog kennel

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Speaker 3: where he spent the night, and then he was taken

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Speaker 3: at handcuffs, placed on a plane and flowing back to Florida.

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Speaker 2: The date of the kidnapping was August thirtieth, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and two, and then the trial didn't happen until late

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Speaker 2: two thousand and six, so he spent four years in

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Speaker 2: a county jail in Polk County. You won't even imagine

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Speaker 2: the kind of torture that he went through two hundred

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Speaker 2: and eighty six of those days he spent in solitary confinement, naked,

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Speaker 2: with the air conditioning being blown full ice cold stadium

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Speaker 2: lights on twenty four hours a day, wasn't allowed to sleep, eat,

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Speaker 2: and his walls were covered in human excrement that entire time.

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Speaker 1: There just seems to be no bottom to this, you know,

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Speaker 1: But then comes the trial. So Robert Fowler's statement was

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Speaker 1: withheld by the prosecution until five days before trial in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and six, at which time the statement was downplayed.

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Speaker 1: Now it's important to remember that none of the witnesses

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Speaker 1: called the trial actually witnessed the murder, and the state

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Speaker 1: brought up the person seen lighting the cigarette outside the

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Speaker 1: building that day of the murder, trying to suggest that

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Speaker 1: it was Nelson.

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Speaker 3: John Purvis was the witness that saw him, and he

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Speaker 3: gave them a sketch. First of all, Nelson Serrano did

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Speaker 3: not smoke cigarettes. He smoked a pipe, which everyone knew.

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Speaker 3: So the state actually mischaracterized his testimony from that he

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Speaker 3: was lighting a cigarette and he clearly saw a cigarette,

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Speaker 3: that it appeared that he was lighting a cigarette. The

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Speaker 3: other thing that they did instead of submitting this composite

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Speaker 3: sketch to the jury in its original form. They reworked

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Speaker 3: the PDF so that it changed the look of the

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Speaker 3: composite sketch. We have both the original composite sketch and

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Speaker 3: we have the reworked one. The original sketch, which appeared

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Speaker 3: to be a much younger, thinner person, didn't look anything

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Speaker 3: like Nelson. Serrano changed to a heavier type look, which

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Speaker 3: is more consistent with the way Nelson looked at trial.

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Speaker 3: So that was highly disturbing. There's no way that whoever

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Speaker 3: introduced that piece of evidence did not know that this

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Speaker 3: had been altered.

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Speaker 1: They also outfitted this composite sketch with the kind of

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Speaker 1: classes Nelson was known to wear. It's just unbelievable. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and what about the firearms evidence from the scene.

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Speaker 3: I think the most significant thing. According to the autopsies,

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Speaker 3: there were four people and there were a total of

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Speaker 3: fourteen gun shot wounds. Now, the police claimed a trial

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Speaker 3: that they only found twelve casings. That really isn't true

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Speaker 3: because they ignored the fact that twelve casings were found

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Speaker 3: at one point in time, and two other thirty caliber

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Speaker 3: casings were found on a palette that had been moved

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Speaker 3: but at the time of the murders, this palette would

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Speaker 3: have been lined up with one of the hallways where

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Speaker 3: one of the deceased was shot. Autopsy showed that they

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Speaker 3: were what they described as through and through wounds. The

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Speaker 3: state attempted to say that one single projectile made these

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Speaker 3: through and through wounds, which is sort of a torturous

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Speaker 3: way to try and explain too many wounds and not

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Speaker 3: enough casings. But not even the medical examiner who testified

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Speaker 3: was willing to adopt that. We did discover as we

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Speaker 3: reviewed the evidence in this case that these two thirty

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Speaker 3: caliber casings had been marked for identification but never entered

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Speaker 3: into evidence by the state.

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Speaker 1: Now there's also this story with the chair in his office.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about that.

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Speaker 3: They tried to bring in a footprint on a chair,

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Speaker 3: saying it was consistent with Nelson Serrano. It was wrong

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Speaker 3: shoe size for one thing. But basically, if you stop

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Speaker 3: and think about what's going on, the state's theory is

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Speaker 3: there's a single shooter who is managing four people. But

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Speaker 3: at some point, while these four people were inside the

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Speaker 3: manufacturing facility, Serrano, unarmed, would have to go into his

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Speaker 3: old office, stand on this chair, remove a ceiling tile

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Speaker 3: and recover a gun that the prosecution claimed that he

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Speaker 3: had secreted back when he was an employee there, before

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Speaker 3: any dispute ever happened, and before he was cast out

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Speaker 3: of the company. Why he would have a gun hidden

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Speaker 3: in the ceiling of his office at that point in

403
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Speaker 3: time was never explained, but that was their theory because

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Speaker 3: someone had seen him do something with that ceiling tile

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Speaker 3: on a previous occasion, we don't know what, according to

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Speaker 3: that witness. And on another occasion, he was seen with

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Speaker 3: a gun at the facility. That actually was explained because

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Speaker 3: employees used to shoot target practice behind the facility in

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Speaker 3: a makeshift shooting range, and several people participated in that,

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Speaker 3: including the Dossos, so there wasn't anything unusual about the

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Speaker 3: fact that someone might bring a gun to the facility

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Speaker 3: for use of this makeshift shooting range.

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Speaker 1: And let's talk about Nelson's alibi here, because we know

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Speaker 1: he was on a business trip from December second to

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Speaker 1: the fourth, first in Washington, d C. Followed by Atlanta,

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Speaker 1: five hundred miles away from the crime scene, which of

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Speaker 1: course was in Bartow, Florida, And the prosecution came up

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Speaker 1: with a fairytale story to try to shoehorn in how

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Speaker 1: he could have well been in both places at the

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Speaker 1: same time. Pretty much here was their theory of how

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Speaker 1: he committed these murders. So they knew and we know

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Speaker 1: that Nelson was seen on camera in Atlanta on December

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Speaker 1: third at his hotel at twelve nineteen pm, and then

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Speaker 1: again less than ten hours later at ten seventeen pm,

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Speaker 1: wearing the exact same clothes in both instances. Now, the

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Speaker 1: state's theory was that in those ten hours, Nelson made

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Speaker 1: an unbelievable round trip journey from Atlanta to Bartow, in

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Speaker 1: which he would have flown from Atlanta to Orlando, picked

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Speaker 1: up a rental car around rush hour and we all

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Speaker 1: know what that's like three forty nine pm, and left

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00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: for the factory in Bartow, which is an eighty mile

432
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 1: drive and typically takes ninety minutes or even longer. So

433
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: at the earliest he would have arrived around five to

434
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: nineteen PM, but probably much later.

435
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,120
Speaker 3: The time of the murders was after normal working hours

436
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 3: of the business. In order to believe that Nelson flew

437
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,040
Speaker 3: down from Atlanta and committed these murders, you would have

438
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: to believe that he did that on a leap of faith,

439
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: with no knowledge that any of his targets would even

440
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 3: be on the scene at the time that he would

441
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 3: have arrived. He would have had to believe that someone

442
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 3: was willing to let him into a building that he

443
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,119
Speaker 3: had been denied access to on multiple occasions, and every

444
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 3: employee had been told to keep him out of the building.

445
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: Right, So he went to a place where he was

446
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: not welcome to which he had no keys, He somehow

447
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 1: gained access without leaving any signs of a break in

448
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: with all of his old coworkers there, he was given

449
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: plenty of time and space to go to his old

450
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: office which was now Frank Dosso's new office, to retrieve

451
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: a gun from the ceiling tiles and begin a killing

452
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: spree that involved three separate guns, starting with Diana in

453
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: the hallway, then chasing the other three around, and somehow

454
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: he was able, while by himself, to corral three men

455
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 1: into Frank's office, where he shot them all execution style.

456
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 1: Sorry about this, but get the fuck out of here

457
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: with this story. Now it continues to get worse. And then,

458
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: according to this Kakamemi theory, he would have had to

459
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: find time and a place to clean himself up and

460
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: get rid of his bloody clothing and then of course

461
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: buy the matching clothing, right he would like to buy

462
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: the same exact set of clothes, because we know he

463
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 1: was wearing the same clothes on both ends of this.

464
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: Then drive an hour to Tampa, drop off the rental

465
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 1: car while leaving no blood evidence, and fly back to

466
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,840
Speaker 1: Atlanta to be back in his hotel again on camera

467
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: by ten seventeen PM.

468
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 3: The timeline that the state presented a trial was questionable

469
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: at best. Everything had to click perfectly, there could not

470
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 3: be any delays. Well, one of the things that they

471
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 3: kept from the jury is that there actually was a

472
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 3: delay in one of the flights that they claimed Nelson took,

473
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 3: and instead of presenting the actual arrival time of that

474
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 3: flight to the jury, they instead presented to the jury

475
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: evidence of when the flight was supposed to arrive. So

476
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 3: this is really questionable activity on the part of the state.

477
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 1: And according to the closing argument, the plane landed at

478
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: nine forty two, but we know that the flight actually

479
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: landed at nine point fifty four PM either way, And

480
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: don't forget the government claimed he was in row thirty.

481
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: If you know how long it takes to get out

482
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: of road thirty to the front of the airplane. Even

483
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: if he was in first class in the front seat,

484
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: this would have been possible. But either way, getting to

485
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 1: the hotel twenty three minutes later rue a bit.

486
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 2: Well.

487
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: The busiest airport's in the world, right, It led at

488
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: the airport and getting to the hotel twenty three minutes

489
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: later at exactly ten seventeen pm in order to be

490
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: seen on camera again wearing the same clothes that he

491
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: was wearing in the morning, but miraculously with no blood

492
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 1: on them. I don't care who the hell you are,

493
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: no airline. I've ever flown deeplanes that efficiently. It's impossible. Okay. Now,

494
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: there's also no evidence of Nelson at any of the

495
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 1: three airports, no video, no witnesses, no nothing. Now, this

496
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: round trip journey has been attempted and failed on multiple occasions.

497
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: It is simply not possible. If this were an Olympic event,

498
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: near sixty year old Nelson would have won gold where

499
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: everyone else failed to finish. And the state goes further

500
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: down this monstrously ridiculous and sinister path, claiming Nelson flew

501
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: under two different aliases, one Agassio and John white, and

502
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: they needed something to hold this pile of horseshit together.

503
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: So they came up with two pieces of false evidence.

504
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: One the coerce statement from his nephew, Albaro Panya Herrera,

505
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: saying that Nelson had rented a car from him out

506
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: of Orlando in order to commit the murders.

507
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: Out of Roperrera, which is a distant nephew of my father.

508
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 2: His statement to the jury was that he had rented

509
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: a car, a teal colored Nissan, at Orlando Airport for

510
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: my father or a friend of my father's to use

511
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,000
Speaker 2: on December third. Once he finished with his testimony and

512
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 2: through counter cross examination, he does admit that that wasn't

513
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 2: his original story and that the reason he's saying what

514
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 2: he's saying now is because the police badgered him so much.

515
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: These are his words, and they threatened him. They basically

516
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 2: said to him, we're either going to convict you or

517
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: we're going to convict Nelson Serrano for these murders. And

518
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 2: so he testifies understand in front of the jury that

519
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: he finally decided, I'll say whatever the police wants me

520
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 2: to say, and that's what I'm saying today. And so

521
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 2: he admits to basically changing his testimony to match what

522
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,320
Speaker 2: the cops wanted this say in front of the jury,

523
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: and then when they talk about one hundred thousand dollars reward,

524
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,719
Speaker 2: he doesn't deny taking that money, saying that you know what,

525
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 2: anybody can use one hundred thousand dollars. And so we

526
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 2: felt all right, his testimony was done.

527
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: Now for the second piece of false evidence, they claimed

528
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: that they found exactly half of Nelson's right index fingerprint

529
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: on one parking ticket from the Orlando Airport parking garage

530
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: and the exact other half of the same fingerprint on

531
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: another ticket.

532
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: The state calls up their own expert and in cross exam,

533
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: they ask them, do you think these fingerprints are legit

534
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 2: or do you think they were planted? He says, well,

535
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,080
Speaker 2: I don't have the science to tell you that they're planted,

536
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: because I don't have the fingerprints those parking tickets, and

537
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 2: those fingerprints have been destroyed when they use the chemicals

538
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: to lift the prints. He never saw the real tickets

539
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 2: or the real fingerprints. He only saw a picture of them.

540
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 2: Then he goes on to say, I find these is

541
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: very suspicious and there for four reasons. One it's his

542
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 2: right finger. So you're telling me that instead of using

543
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 2: your left finger, which is when you go to grab

544
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: a parking stuff you're driving, you reach out with your

545
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 2: left hand and you pull that ticket out. Why is

546
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 2: it his right hand? Second, there's no other fingerprints on it.

547
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: Will you go to pull your ticket out? You use

548
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 2: your thumb and press down and you.

549
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 3: Pull it out.

550
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: And then the teller when you get it to them,

551
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: they've got to swipe it, so their fingerprints should be

552
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: on it. Nothing. Third, is that exactly half of that

553
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 2: fingerprint was on the other parking ticket from November twenty third,

554
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 2: so we're talking two weeks prior. And he noted that

555
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: if you took a solid fingerprint, cut it in half,

556
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 2: each half was on each ticket. He goes, it's completely odd.

557
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: And there's no other smudges or fingerprints on the other

558
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: ticket either. And then fourth, if you put a fingerprint,

559
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: no matter how you try, you cannot make a straight

560
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: edge on our fingerprint. And he actually put his finger

561
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: on the water glass in front of him. He goes,

562
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: it's just impossible. So for those four reasons, fingerprints are

563
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 2: suspicious to me, and so we thought, oh well, the

564
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: fingerprint evidence is done.

565
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: And so what did the defense do with all of this?

566
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, did they do anything at all?

567
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: I'm ashamed to tell you guys this because it kicked

568
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,040
Speaker 2: myself left and right for allowing the defense attorneys to

569
00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 2: convince us not to present a defense. And you heard me, right.

570
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: They came to me and they said, the testimony from

571
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: Alvareau is done, the fingerprint evidence is done. There's nothing

572
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: to believe here. Reasonable doubt at the minimum exists everywhere.

573
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 2: They're not going to convict your father. And if we

574
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 2: don't present evidence there was a law at a time

575
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 2: in Florida. We get to talk twice, give a closing

576
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 2: argument and that Florida can do what they want to do,

577
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: and then we get to finish last And at the end,

578
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, but what about the trip. Why can't we

579
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 2: spend time on showing how impossible it is? So I go,

580
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 2: why can't we do that? And he goes, because we

581
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: want to have the end of it. And we took

582
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 2: their advice because they were the experts. And so at

583
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 2: the end of the day, how did this happen? And

584
00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 2: it was because this county had gone through nine years

585
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,880
Speaker 2: year of two billboards with the pictures of the victims

586
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: and one hundred thousand dollars reward plastered on it. Since

587
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 2: ninety seven until two thousand and five, the papers were

588
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: always listing my father with a picture as the prime suspect,

589
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 2: calling him the Mexican and four of the jurors, and

590
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 2: they interviewed them after the fact. They said, how did

591
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: you do that? Why did you give him guilty? He goes, well,

592
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,280
Speaker 2: I kept waiting for them to show me why he's innocent.

593
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 2: You can't make this stuff up. We couldn't believe it.

594
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 2: My poor mother she never recovered. She still tests the

595
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 2: floor that she's stepping on to make sure it doesn't

596
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 2: get pulled away every day. You go through all those phases, right, denial, anger, depression.

597
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: How could you possibly convict somebody who the state didn't

598
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: even prove was there? How do you say he's guilty?

599
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 2: You know, you pick up the pieces and then you're like,

600
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: what do I do next? How do we recover all this?

601
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 2: In the attorney they look at you and they go, no, no,

602
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 2: don't worry, We're going to repeal this.

603
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: It's like, who are.

604
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 2: You talking to We're talking about years, not decades that

605
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 2: this thing is going to continue going, which it has.

606
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: It's been twenty years.

607
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: And I want to talk for a second about the

608
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: death penalty in Florida. Nelson's sentenced to death on a

609
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: nine to three vote, which again is ridiculous, it's not

610
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: even unanimous. But Florida and the death penalty, a very

611
00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: important fact that I hope people will remember is that

612
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: at last count, Florida had executed ninety nine people since

613
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 1: the reinstatement of the death penalty. During that same period

614
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 1: of time, thirty one people were found innocent on death

615
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 1: row and freed. Now that doesn't include, of course, the

616
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: innocent people that Florida has executed, people like Jesse Taferro,

617
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: and the other innocent people that we know are languishing

618
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 1: on death row in Florida who haven't been free, like

619
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: Pablo Ebar or James Daily, Chris Maharaj, who is the

620
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: subject of a fantastic podcast right now on Audible called

621
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: Abuse of Power Season two. So it's not unreasonable to

622
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: say that Florida is not even getting it right sixty

623
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: percent of the time when it comes to sentencing people

624
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: to death. Maybe we'll be generous and give the benefit

625
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: of the doubt to the State of Florida and say,

626
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: maybe they're getting it right seventy percent of the time.

627
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: So I ask, if someone is in favor of the

628
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: death penalty, are you okay with thirty percent of the

629
00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: people being executed being innocent? And if not, then you

630
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: cannot support the death penalty any longer because that is

631
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: what's going on in Florida. And here we have today

632
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: living proof of another innocent man languishing, experiencing torture day

633
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 1: in and day out, being on death row, the notorious

634
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:45,839
Speaker 1: death row in the state of Florida, for a crime

635
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: he didn't commit. And how is he holding up?

636
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 2: I can't give you any answer to that, chasing it

637
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 2: at All I know is if he can survive being

638
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: in a six foot by nine foot sale twenty four

639
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 2: hours a day, seven days a week, not being able

640
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: to go outside, constantly being harassed by these guards, going

641
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 2: through all this medical negligence and torture, and he can

642
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: still keep his mental integrity and still stay somewhat positive

643
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 2: in all of this. You know, I can't express my

644
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,959
Speaker 2: admiration for what he's done to stay true. I mean,

645
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 2: he's a stubborn guy. He's always said to me, I'm

646
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 2: never gonna let them win on this. I'm going to

647
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: fight this till the end. I know the truth is

648
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: going to come out. It's going to liberate me. It's

649
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: gonna liberate my name. But the state of Florida isn't

650
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: just hoping he dies. And I'll be very frank with this.

651
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 2: They're making sure he dies. My father is an old

652
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 2: man and he's been under medical care for the last

653
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 2: twenty years under these contracted medical providers, which are nothing

654
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: but shysters. He has three different medicines for his heart condition.

655
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 2: He has osteoporosis. He's completely deaf. He needs hearing aids.

656
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 2: He's already lost his eyesight in one eye and now

657
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 2: he's losing it in his one last good eye. They're

658
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 2: not doing anything. Even though he was diagnosed in jail

659
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 2: as being deaf. Now they've said he's not deaf anymore,

660
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: and they're not giving him his hearing aides. He hasn't

661
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 2: had teeth to chew on and they don't give him dentures.

662
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: He's saving the teeth that had fallen out, and every

663
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 2: morning he pulls string out of his uniform and he

664
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: ties his teeth together so he can chew and then

665
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,360
Speaker 2: at night before he goes asleep, he breaks the string,

666
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: takes his teeth, puts it in his pocket so he

667
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,440
Speaker 2: doesn't swallow it at night so he can redo that.

668
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: The next day he suffers from a siatic condition. They

669
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: don't give him pain killers for that. Then he's got

670
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 2: three different heart medications, which twice in the last eighteen

671
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 2: months they took away from him for six weeks at

672
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 2: a time. He said his heart was going so crazy

673
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: that he didn't know if he was going to wake up.

674
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 2: He didn't know if the heart was going to explode.

675
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 2: And this is how he lived for those six weeks

676
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: until he gave him his medication back. You can't be

677
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 2: taking heart medication for twenty years and then go cold

678
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: turkey for six weeks. So they're attempting to kill him

679
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: and doing all these things, and then what do they do.

680
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: They take him to the doctor. They make him sit

681
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 2: in an office for six hours. They make him sign

682
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 2: something that says he was attended by a doctor, and

683
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 2: he never was. You know, the guards they're sitting there

684
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 2: telling him, you're going to lose your eyesight, You're going

685
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: to be completely blind and completely deaf, and you're never

686
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 2: going to know who comes at you or who's doing

687
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: what to you. That's what we're gonna do to you.

688
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 2: He's been diagnosed for a hit for placement. They won't

689
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 2: give it to him, and it's excruciating. You can't walk,

690
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 2: you can't lie down, you can't stand, you can't sit

691
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 2: for too long. Right, So I talked to him. I go,

692
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:27,120
Speaker 2: he needs to get hit replaced. Well, we're not going

693
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 2: to do that. That's way too much money. And I go,

694
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: all right, well, then let me raise some money and

695
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: let me do it. Oh no, no, no, you can't pay

696
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 2: for that. And I go, you got to be kidding me.

697
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 3: He needs it.

698
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 2: He's already been diagnosed by your own doctor. And he goes, well,

699
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 2: he's in jail. He's going to get killed sooner or later.

700
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: So we're not going to spend the money. It's what

701
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 2: they say to me, So they say to him. Lawsuits

702
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,440
Speaker 2: have been filed against the Department of Corrections in the

703
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 2: state of Florida. They have lost twice not observing the

704
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: American Disabilities Act, and even till to this day, they're

705
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,879
Speaker 2: still not observing it despite the court orders for them

706
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: to do so. And then, on top of all of that,

707
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 2: you know, the miscarriage is justice, all the medical neglect,

708
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 2: disgusting conditions in two decades of nothing but misery. And

709
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 2: this is what's also been going on for my mother.

710
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: You know, here's my mother since the conviction, completely insecure

711
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 2: about the world around her, checking the ground beneath her

712
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: every time she walks. And now as we record this,

713
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 2: I'm letting you all know that she passed away last Monday,

714
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: February seventh, twenty twenty two, and she won't be around

715
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 2: to see my father out. And my father wasn't able

716
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 2: to leave the prison to be with her or to

717
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 2: even come to the service.

718
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 1: Jesus, I'm so sorry. I mean, I don't know how

719
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 1: much a person can take. It's like kind of a

720
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: Greek tragedy or something. I mean, it's more than anybody

721
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: should ever go through. It already was, and now there's this,

722
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: and I'm so sorry for you and your family and

723
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: your dad's at this point, I mean, what can I

724
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,720
Speaker 1: say except he's one of the strongest people that I've

725
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: ever heard of. To endure this and then still persevere

726
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: and still keep the positive attitude that he has is

727
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: inspiring to me. And I'm sure to just everyone who's

728
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 1: ever come across him or his story. So now we

729
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: look at post conviction, and so much of everything we've

730
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 1: talked about has been brought up in post conviction appeals

731
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: from the kidnapping and Ecuador to exculpatory evidence about the

732
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:36,480
Speaker 1: crime scene, prosecutorial misconduct, and inadequate defense at trial. But

733
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: all of the appeals have so far been denied. But

734
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: in May of twenty seventeen, a four to three decision

735
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: of the Florida Supreme Court vacated Nelson Serrano's death sentence

736
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: as a result of the Hearst decision, which rendered Florida's

737
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:55,360
Speaker 1: death penalty process unconstitutional and declare that jurors must agree

738
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 1: unanimously in their decision to recommend the death penalty. And remember,

739
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: for Nelson, it was a nine to three decision back

740
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six. So they sent this case

741
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: back to the Circuit Court for resentencing, and they haven't

742
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: actually done anything about it yet. Right here we are

743
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: all the way in twenty twenty two. What can be done?

744
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 1: What are the prospects? This has caused a real outcry,

745
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 1: I mean huge organizations have weighed in on this. Right.

746
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 3: Yes, Ecuador has weighed in significantly, The International Commission and

747
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 3: Human Rights has weighed in significantly. Where we are right

748
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: now is that the Supreme Court ordered a retrial on

749
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 3: the sentencing aspect of the case. What I'm doing cannot

750
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: actually find Nelson Serrano innocent. The federal appeals could actually

751
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 3: overturn the guilt or innocence portion of the case. So

752
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 3: that's why it's very important to get the case to

753
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 3: where Bruce Fletcher and Charles White will be handling the

754
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 3: federal appeals. However, at every status hearing, the State Attorney's

755
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 3: office has continued to ask that the case to be

756
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,399
Speaker 3: pushed down the road and predict that it may be

757
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 3: two years before they will be ready to try this case,

758
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 3: and that delay has caused actual prejudice to mister Serrano.

759
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 3: We talked a little bit about some of the evidence

760
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 3: that we've lost, the deterioration of DNA, the deterioration of

761
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 3: the fingerprints. We've been robbed of the opportunity to bring

762
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 3: in new experts who could really nail down the fact

763
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:31,919
Speaker 3: that that evidence is compelling for mister Serrano's innocence. We've

764
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 3: lost witnesses, people have died since this case was even

765
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 3: remanded on appeal, and certainly many people have died since

766
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 3: the original trial. Despite that significant prejudice, we believe there

767
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 3: still is plenty of compelling evidence to overturn the death

768
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: penalty in this particular case. Under the current State of

769
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 3: Florida law has to be an unanimous decision, so we

770
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 3: only have to convince one person on that twelve person

771
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 3: jury that this was a miscarrier you justice, and that

772
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 3: person can keep the State of Florida from illegally executing

773
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,040
Speaker 3: mister Serrano. If we can get the death penalty of return,

774
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 3: there are a lot of options that open up to

775
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: undo this injustice.

776
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds to me like the State of

777
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,240
Speaker 1: Florida is just stringing this damn thing out and hoping

778
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: that he just passes away, you know, rather than have

779
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: to address their filthy laundry here. I hate to say,

780
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: but that's really I don't think that's a far fetch

781
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: theory at all. And so Francisco, for our audience listening today,

782
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: if there is horrified and disgusted by what's happened to

783
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 1: your father as I am, and they want to do

784
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: something to help, what would you like them to do?

785
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 2: Go to Nelson Serrano dot org. Subscribe to our email list.

786
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: You'll see a link to change dot org. We just

787
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 2: surpassed fifty four thousand supporters in this Be one of them,

788
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: and then write your congressman tweaked Instagram A Governor DeSantis,

789
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 2: Ashley Moody look at this case for Nelson Serrano. We

790
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 2: cannot let Florida continue to do this to an innocent man.

791
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: He should be free. Follow the Inter American Commission on

792
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 2: Human Rights. Liberate Nelson Serrano, immediately approve his custody transfer

793
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: to Ecuador immediately, and push for the resentencing hearing that

794
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: happen now, not in twenty twenty three, not at the

795
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 2: end of twenty twenty two. That's what you can do.

796
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 2: I want to bring to everybody's attention to February eighteenth.

797
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: We're going to be in Miami at Florida International University

798
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 2: on February eighteenth from five pm to seven pm. The

799
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 2: cameras are going to be on Telemundo, Univision, CNN. We've

800
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: got a book that's come out of this. The government

801
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 2: of Ecuador is going to be speaking there. We have

802
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 2: four exoneries that are going to tell their story about

803
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 2: what happened to them, and you will freak when you

804
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 2: hear the similarities between what happened to my father. It's

805
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: going to bring attention to the need of reform in

806
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 2: our judicial system in the state of Florida, and we

807
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: want you to be there. We actually be part of it.

808
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 2: So be aware that this is going to happen February eighteenth.

809
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: You'll see it on social media over support us to

810
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:01,760
Speaker 2: get the word out.

811
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: Please tell your dad we're all thinking of him, and

812
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: we all wish that we could open those doors right now,

813
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: this minute and whisk him out of there. And the

814
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 1: closing of our show is always, I think the most

815
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,920
Speaker 1: important part. It's called closing arguments, and it works like this.

816
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: First of all, I'm going to thank each of you

817
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: for being here, taking your time and sharing this incredible story.

818
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 1: And so now closing arguments works like this. I'm going

819
00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: to turn my microphone off, sit back in my chair,

820
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,319
Speaker 1: and close my eyes and just listen to anything else

821
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 1: you guys want to share. Greg, let's start with you,

822
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: and then you can just pass the mic to Francisco

823
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: and he can close it out, and that's how we'll

824
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: end the show.

825
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 3: Well, i'd like to start with justice delayed is justice denied.

826
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: We believe absolutely that if we can get this case

827
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: back before a jury, we can show that Nelson Serrano

828
00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: was wrongfully convicted and is not guilty of this crime.

829
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 3: I would point out that it's very unusual for.

830
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 4: Defense attorney to take the tactic in a resentencing that

831
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 4: his client is not guilty because he's already had another

832
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 4: jury determine his guilt and now we're looking for mitigating factors.

833
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: As to why he should not be executed. Well, the

834
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 3: major mitigating factor in mister Serrano's case is he's innocent.

835
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: There are others, his age, his ill health, many many

836
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 3: mitigating factors, and we will present all of those to

837
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 3: the jury as well. But the message that we believe

838
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,840
Speaker 3: will be compelling is the fact that Nelson Serrano is

839
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 3: an innocent man and Nelson Serrano has been nineteen years

840
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 3: on death row wrongfully and this needs to change as

841
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 3: soon as possible. And I believe that the State of

842
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: Florida is aware of the fact that if we get

843
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 3: a resentencing hearing, that the likelihood is that the death

844
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: sentence will be overturned. That's why we've seen unprecedented attempts

845
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 3: to delay this process by the state attorney in this

846
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 3: particular case, and that's why we filed an appeal with

847
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 3: the Florida Supreme Court saying these the ways are illegal,

848
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 3: they violate due process, and we believe the death penalty

849
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 3: should be taken off the table simply because of the delay.

850
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 3: But even if you're not willing to give us that step,

851
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 3: then order the state to go forward immediately. We are

852
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 3: ready to go to trial now. We want trial now,

853
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 3: and we're hoping that we will get it as soon

854
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 3: as possible.

855
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 2: Thank you, Greg and Jason. You know, I want to

856
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,880
Speaker 2: thank you for this opportunity to bring this story to light.

857
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: It's so important that people understand that this is real,

858
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: this is true. These things are happening, not just in Florida,

859
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 2: all over the country. These tactics that the police and

860
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 2: the prosecutors and the judges use to convict the innocent

861
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: for the sake of convicting somebody for these heinous crimes

862
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: is going on and it continues to go on. It's

863
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,400
Speaker 2: serving their purpose and not society. You know, what it

864
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,359
Speaker 2: comes down to is action. One of the things that

865
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 2: my father has always been saying, do what you can

866
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: for me. We got to make sure this doesn't happen

867
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: to anybody else. You think that's not going to happen

868
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 2: to me. I don't get involved in those things. Well,

869
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 2: you know my dad wasn't either. Everything would happen. There

870
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: all comes down to this drug deal that we knew

871
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 2: nothing about, and there he's been nineteen years on death row.

872
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: Wrong place, at the wrong time, you might think. But

873
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: it's more than that, right, it's these prosecuted, these cops,

874
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 2: these judges that look at this and say, well, we

875
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 2: need to resolve this case, and this is the easiest path.

876
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: This is the least amount of resistance that we're going

877
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 2: to get to put somebody up. Almost every state has

878
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: a law that says that even if the prosecutor intentionally

879
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: manipulates the system or evidence, or does anything to intentionally

880
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 2: give somebody the death penalty when they knew that this

881
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 2: guy was innocent, you can't civilly or criminally try them.

882
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: Those are the laws that we need to reverse. So,

883
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 2: if these are things you're committed to you want to

884
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: do something about it, you can. It doesn't take a

885
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: lot of time either, or effort or money. You just

886
00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:58,400
Speaker 2: need to be a part of it and find the

887
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,400
Speaker 2: organization you want, whether it's Floridinustry, alternative, a death penalty,

888
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 2: it's the Innocence Project. Anything. Contribute five bucks, write some time,

889
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: say hey, I want to help. How can I do that?

890
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: You'll stop being part of the solution and believe me.

891
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 2: We're getting there. The numbers are growing. We need more

892
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 2: help to make this thing happen. Let's get Congress to

893
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: pass laws. Conviction integrity units are huge, huge amount of

894
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: exonerations happen because of the conviction Integrity Unit. Make the

895
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 2: mandatory and wherever you live, civil review boards over prosecutorial

896
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 2: and misconduct that there are things that we can do.

897
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,760
Speaker 2: It's great to do something about my father. We want

898
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 2: that to happen. He's eighty three. He deserves to finish

899
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: his life in Ecuador. We want to make that happen.

900
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 2: But let's make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else.

901
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 2: So join us, Join Wrongful Convictions, Join Innocence Project, Join

902
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: all these other places that are doing things and help.

903
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 2: And thank you. Thank you again for your time.

904
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Conviction. I'd like to thank

905
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 1: our production team, Connor Hall, Justin Golden, Jeff Cliburn and

906
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: Kevin Wartis, with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in

907
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:12,320
Speaker 1: this production was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer

908
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at

909
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on

910
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: Twitter at wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good.

911
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: On all three platforms, you can also follow me on

912
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: both TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flam. Wrongful Conviction

913
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,839
Speaker 1: is the production of Lava for Good podcast and association

914
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 1: with Signal Company Number one