1
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, welcome back to the Bob West Podcast. My

2
00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,360
Speaker 1: guest today he is the one to know me, Judy Collin,

3
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,920
Speaker 1: you'd be glad to have I'm thrilled to be here, Bob,

4
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 1: thanks for inviting me. Okay, you actually played a gig

5
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,840
Speaker 1: last night at City Winery. How did that come together? Well?

6
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,880
Speaker 1: It was wonderful. I'm an old City Winery performer, and

7
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,919
Speaker 1: so I've already performed twice since uh, March or April

8
00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,520
Speaker 1: May one, I guess May first. So it's been wonderful

9
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: to get back. And I was also in New Jersey

10
00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: last week at a wonderful engagement in Eatontown. So I'm

11
00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,199
Speaker 1: back on the boards and my book is full again

12
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,160
Speaker 1: of all those dozens and hundreds of concerts that were

13
00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: booked last year when we went into lockdown, and so

14
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 1: they're all coming up now like Roses. Uh. So what

15
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,080
Speaker 1: do you do during lockdown? I practice the piano, I

16
00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,880
Speaker 1: made lunch and dinner for the most part, looked for movies,

17
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 1: had had zooms with friends and with various business enterprise.

18
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: Started my own podcast called Since You've Asked, which is

19
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: coming into being I think in July July, the eight

20
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: and I have interviewed a number of people that I

21
00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 1: have enjoyed being with. It's it's you know, I think

22
00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,040
Speaker 1: you will agree. I think I'm very attracted to your

23
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 1: podcast and to your wonderful array of exploratory talks with people.

24
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 1: And it is kind of a way of socialize, don't

25
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,800
Speaker 1: you think, among other you know, I talked to my

26
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,320
Speaker 1: shrink and I say, listen, I'm in a bad I'm

27
00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 1: in a bad mood. And all of a sudden, no

28
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,120
Speaker 1: matter what moods I start to podcast, it completely changes one.

29
00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:58,440
Speaker 1: It changes your mood. It's wonderful. So it's good to

30
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,120
Speaker 1: be back on the wards and uh so that's what

31
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,840
Speaker 1: I did in the in the lockdown here in New York.

32
00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,760
Speaker 1: We were here, I think we have I'm I'm terribly

33
00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,119
Speaker 1: unhappy about the losses and the deaths that we've had here,

34
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,920
Speaker 1: and I know you've had them there, and I have

35
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:18,760
Speaker 1: to say that we've in that in the light of

36
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,119
Speaker 1: that that was going on, we've had a very privileged lockdown.

37
00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,359
Speaker 1: In fact, I've had a rest. I haven't had a

38
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,080
Speaker 1: rest in about sixty years, so except for being sick

39
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,760
Speaker 1: a couple of times. So it's been a real strange

40
00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:34,600
Speaker 1: kind of a gift for me. I've worked on all

41
00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,919
Speaker 1: my own songs which are going to come out soon

42
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,560
Speaker 1: in an album, probably next year. So that's been very

43
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:48,080
Speaker 1: totalizing to me. Wow. So, uh, he's not very busy,

44
00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: you know, I'm busy. Okay, So what kind of movies

45
00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,040
Speaker 1: did you watch during the lockdown? Oh? Everything you can

46
00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:03,560
Speaker 1: think of the favorites. We just watched thirty episodes of Yellowstone. Now.

47
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm a Western girl, so I love Kevin Cosner, I

48
00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,080
Speaker 1: love the rodeos, I love the mountains in Montana, I

49
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,280
Speaker 1: love the Indians. I love the fights about land and

50
00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,480
Speaker 1: water and uh so that was a big part of it.

51
00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,280
Speaker 1: We watched all of a couple of big We watched

52
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 1: The Queen. We watched What's What's the early series about

53
00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,520
Speaker 1: King Henry the eight and the guy who played in

54
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:31,400
Speaker 1: was very sin so it was distracting for a while.

55
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: We have one of our favorites, which I really recommend

56
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,680
Speaker 1: to everybody, is called The Night Manager, and it's I

57
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 1: think six or eight episodes and it's a John Lacarae

58
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 1: book of course, taken into the into the theater of television,

59
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: and it is superb. I must say that was one

60
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,160
Speaker 1: of our favorites. I would go back and watch. In fact,

61
00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,480
Speaker 1: we did, I think watched that twice. We had a

62
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,240
Speaker 1: whole year, and then we went back and picked the highlights,

63
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 1: and we're giving them another run. I even watched my

64
00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: I even watched my own movie. I can't listen to myself,

65
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,360
Speaker 1: so good credit for that. Let me ask you something,

66
00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:13,680
Speaker 1: you so so upbeat invaluable. I'm kind of stunned. Is

67
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,039
Speaker 1: this your normal personality? Yes, this is me. This is me,

68
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,760
Speaker 1: you know. I was born an optimist, and my sister

69
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 1: always accuses me of taking on that that costume at

70
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: all times, not taking it off very often. No, I

71
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,760
Speaker 1: have to be well. The first thing that you have

72
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 1: to do as a singer. I think the practicing is

73
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,560
Speaker 1: initially the daily routine has to be done once a

74
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 1: day because you're a pianist, so you have to keep

75
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,600
Speaker 1: the fingers in shape. You have to keep doing your

76
00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 1: chair and doing your motort, and you have to keep

77
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,520
Speaker 1: writing because if you're writing poems, you might see that

78
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,360
Speaker 1: one or two of them come out as a sound,

79
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 1: so sometimes they are poems and they won't fit into

80
00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,680
Speaker 1: the lyric quality that has to be there for a song.

81
00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,280
Speaker 1: So they then you have to eat well. You're breathing

82
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 1: when you're singing, so that's good. That keeps your spirits up.

83
00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 1: And I have to keep my My routine involves having

84
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 1: to exercise at least five times a weekend, usually uh

85
00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,719
Speaker 1: three or four miles of walking, sometimes five. So it's

86
00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,359
Speaker 1: the exercise and I eat well. I can't eat junk.

87
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: I don't Oh, we don't smoke anymore. I don't drink anymore.

88
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,880
Speaker 1: So what's left but to have fun. Let's go back

89
00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 1: a chapter. You say you're a Western girl. You certainly

90
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,320
Speaker 1: grew up in the West, but you know, having you

91
00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 1: pretty much lived in the city since then, is your

92
00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,120
Speaker 1: mind in the Western? Do you actually go visit the West?

93
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,880
Speaker 1: For years, I have visited. I've gone on ski trips,

94
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 1: I've gone hiking ventures. I usually go to Colorado. That's

95
00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,719
Speaker 1: the place that my heart lies, and I've and I

96
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 1: have so such strong pull to Colorado a lot of

97
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,200
Speaker 1: a lot of my writing. I just wrote a new

98
00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:01,719
Speaker 1: called new song called Girl from when I was a

99
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,159
Speaker 1: girl in Colorado, and I think it's going to actually

100
00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:08,039
Speaker 1: be very strong piece in the album. I'm starting to

101
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: do it in public now and a few other things.

102
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 1: So yes, I live in the city. I've lived in

103
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,800
Speaker 1: New York since nineteen sixty three when I moved here,

104
00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:19,159
Speaker 1: and I've been in the same apartment here in New

105
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,520
Speaker 1: York for fifty years. But people associate me, Oh, I

106
00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,160
Speaker 1: love Los Angeles. I have roots there too, certainly musical roots.

107
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,760
Speaker 1: And I've done a number of recordings there. And so

108
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:36,680
Speaker 1: I think the ocean and the West. Uh, the West

109
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,760
Speaker 1: in all its glory, has a great pulp. But I'll

110
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 1: tell you there's nowhere. There's nowhere like New York. Yesterday

111
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,479
Speaker 1: night before last, we went to Monday night, we went

112
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:52,560
Speaker 1: to an opening of a Renaissance exhibition of the Medici paintings,

113
00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,720
Speaker 1: portraits really and the The few days before that, we

114
00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,560
Speaker 1: went over to the met and we wandered for a

115
00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: number of hours through the Asian Wing, which is one

116
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,080
Speaker 1: of the great treasures of this city. And of course

117
00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,640
Speaker 1: I have friends here. I have roots here. I know

118
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 1: all where all the good restaurants are, and some of

119
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,240
Speaker 1: them are still open by God, and so that's been

120
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:19,080
Speaker 1: a treat um I have. I have all kinds of friends,

121
00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, in l A. Well, the truth is, I

122
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 1: didn't move to Los Angeles I did work there. I

123
00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 1: had an affair there was a very important affair with

124
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,040
Speaker 1: Steven Stills. But I never moved there. I think I

125
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,200
Speaker 1: would be dead if I'd moved there. I'm too susceptible

126
00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 1: to the rhythms there. And it was the age of

127
00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,480
Speaker 1: drugs and overdoses, and I would have been right there

128
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. And I in New York.

129
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 1: I had my therapist, I had my my lovers, and

130
00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,920
Speaker 1: my husband now of well, my my life partner, but

131
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 1: and my husband and my life partner of forty three years.

132
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,920
Speaker 1: So New York is where it's at for me. There's

133
00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: nothing like it. It's stimulating. My friends are not all decisions.

134
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 1: Some of them are painters, some of them are writers.

135
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: Some of them are just weird. So you know, Colorado,

136
00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: Denver's in the flats and then in the mountains. Are

137
00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 1: you more of a mountain girl or do you like

138
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,200
Speaker 1: to see the mountains in the distance. I'm a mountain girl.

139
00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: I had when I was a teenager. I was living

140
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,200
Speaker 1: in Denver, of course, and when I was starting to

141
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 1: have those summer jobs, I started out working at a

142
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: place called Sportsland Valley guest Ranch over on the other

143
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,920
Speaker 1: side of birth it well, I started skiing. Of course,

144
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: my brother's skied all the time. I had to practice,

145
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 1: so I was not up on the slopes as often

146
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,880
Speaker 1: as they were. So I'm not as great as skiers there,

147
00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 1: but I'm a very I'm fifty five or sixty years

148
00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,880
Speaker 1: of skiing, and you know, it does teach you how

149
00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:52,360
Speaker 1: to ski. So I'm a mountain girl and working in

150
00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:58,760
Speaker 1: in the mountains, uh at at guest ranches, and then

151
00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,320
Speaker 1: after I got out of high school and went to

152
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 1: college for a year, had a job in Rocky Mountain

153
00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:11,559
Speaker 1: National Park running running a wilderness site in the Rocky

154
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,600
Speaker 1: Mountain National Park which was called Friend Lake Lodge. It

155
00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,960
Speaker 1: was a lodge which had been in existence since nineteen ten,

156
00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,480
Speaker 1: and when we got there, we were the first people

157
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:23,480
Speaker 1: to run it for a couple of years because nobody

158
00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,240
Speaker 1: wanted to live there without electricity, which we didn't care.

159
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,439
Speaker 1: And I can live by starlight or moonlight or firelight anytime.

160
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 1: And it was really the event of a lifetime. Really.

161
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,280
Speaker 1: I had to bake pies and bread on a wood stove,

162
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 1: and I got by the end of the summer, We're saying,

163
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 1: you know, you really can't get a decent meal without

164
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 1: cooking it in a was so so I'm very I

165
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,200
Speaker 1: very much romanticized the Rockies. Yes, things have changed. I

166
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,079
Speaker 1: tried to buy that place, but the government had started

167
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,120
Speaker 1: Operation sixty four, which was intend to move all of

168
00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:05,960
Speaker 1: the commercial quotes commercial enterprises out of the National Park.

169
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,679
Speaker 1: So we lost that and I would have wound up

170
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,680
Speaker 1: working for the parks. I was probably if I hadn't

171
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,320
Speaker 1: started singing songs for money. So when was lost? Time

172
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,760
Speaker 1: you skied? I'm a big skier in Colorado. I love

173
00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,960
Speaker 1: I love skis, you know. I I skied pretty much

174
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: every year either either Veil or Aspen or Winter Park

175
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: and primarily those places. And about four or five I

176
00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: have I decided that I really had to give it

177
00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,000
Speaker 1: up because I couldn't afford to have another injury, frankly

178
00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,439
Speaker 1: because of my schedule, because I'm on the road. Because

179
00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,079
Speaker 1: I just couldn't do it anymore. It's too dangerous. It's

180
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:49,079
Speaker 1: a dangerous sport. And I have I have a um

181
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,679
Speaker 1: A replacement shoulder, I have lots of pins in my legs.

182
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,800
Speaker 1: And uh, I really said to myself, it's after the

183
00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,960
Speaker 1: last big one. And I went back after the show

184
00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: to replacement, and I skied for a few more years.

185
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 1: But I love it, love it, love it. But I'm

186
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,839
Speaker 1: not going to ski across country. It's there's no no

187
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 1: fair comparison. And I like the speed and the wind,

188
00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,200
Speaker 1: and I couldn't agree more. The freedom. You know. The

189
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,520
Speaker 1: great thing about skiing, I'm like tennis or something. At

190
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,840
Speaker 1: any ability level, you can reach your limit and both

191
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:29,080
Speaker 1: enjoy it and be scared. Right exactly, So these injuries

192
00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,960
Speaker 1: were all as results of skiing. Yes, but that's why

193
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,760
Speaker 1: I think so. Yes, I'd like to go back, and

194
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,720
Speaker 1: who knows? I may, I may, I may go back

195
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,440
Speaker 1: because I have a brother who's a ski instructor still

196
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,560
Speaker 1: at Veil, and oh yes, Dave has hung in there.

197
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,800
Speaker 1: You know, Dave's life consists of getting injured in the

198
00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,880
Speaker 1: winter and then spending the summer rehabbing. That's his life.

199
00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,640
Speaker 1: He's in another one. They've taken one of his shoulders

200
00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,400
Speaker 1: apart three or four times. They're giving up trying to

201
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,840
Speaker 1: find place, think places to put all this gear that

202
00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,560
Speaker 1: has to go back there when he gets an injury.

203
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,560
Speaker 1: But he's still at it Veil and he still has

204
00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,800
Speaker 1: has clients. I mean, he's got to be seven years

205
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:12,240
Speaker 1: younger than I I am. I thinking I made it too.

206
00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,040
Speaker 1: So he's whatever that is, seventies something. But he also

207
00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,560
Speaker 1: works all the time because he's a great builder. He

208
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,680
Speaker 1: built about ninety of the maybe you know them, the

209
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:29,120
Speaker 1: pine Um houses in Veil in the early sixties, and

210
00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,839
Speaker 1: then he went off to went off the tracks for

211
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,320
Speaker 1: one then he came back and they all they all

212
00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,439
Speaker 1: have to keep Dave Collins on board because he knows everything,

213
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 1: you know, he has the he's like being a national

214
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,080
Speaker 1: treasure in Japan. He knows all the things to do

215
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,640
Speaker 1: with all the building tricks and all the things that

216
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,800
Speaker 1: people need to have done when they're building or rebuilding.

217
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,480
Speaker 1: And so he promised me that maybe next year he

218
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 1: is going to retire, but I don't believe it, and

219
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:57,080
Speaker 1: certainly not from skiing. Okay, so you say that you're

220
00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,080
Speaker 1: eighty two. We live in a world where every but

221
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: he's lying about the rangel though now you can look

222
00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:08,080
Speaker 1: at you're so upfront. So how do you feel about aging? Well,

223
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,080
Speaker 1: it's a fortunate journey because you could get off anywhere

224
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:19,080
Speaker 1: along the way, and I haven't. I I like what's

225
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,320
Speaker 1: going on in my life a lot. I like it

226
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:27,600
Speaker 1: I am always willing to say that somebody might be

227
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 1: right instead of wrong. So I'm open to improvement, and

228
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,040
Speaker 1: I think that's never ending. Learning is never ending, and

229
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,080
Speaker 1: curiosity is never ending. And I live in a very

230
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:45,040
Speaker 1: interesting world which we all do challenging, certainly as challenging

231
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,200
Speaker 1: as the sixties world, though, I mean, nothing nothing comes

232
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 1: up to Vietnam. Nothing does. There was a big piece

233
00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 1: in the Times, I don't know if you saw it

234
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:59,720
Speaker 1: last week about it was. It was about ten pages,

235
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,080
Speaker 1: well pages, uh, and about the big report that was

236
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,200
Speaker 1: came out in nine one about all of the lies

237
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,840
Speaker 1: and all of the horrible Anyway, nothing really beats Vietnam,

238
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,280
Speaker 1: and frankly, we'll never get over paying for it. I

239
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 1: said all the time as we were marching against the war,

240
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:21,320
Speaker 1: I said, you know, this is this comes with the price.

241
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: This it's not just the people that are dying, both

242
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 1: in Vietnam and our American soldiers. It's it's it's a price,

243
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 1: and it's gonna it's gonna come to one of these days. Okay,

244
00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,320
Speaker 1: So how is your health other than these physical injuries

245
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,960
Speaker 1: with h you know, the shoulder, etcetera. Perfect for a

246
00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 1: check out. Okay, So you could you can live for

247
00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,920
Speaker 1: another twenty years? Twenty years is what I'm counting on.

248
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,320
Speaker 1: Maybe I come from also a line of people who

249
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,640
Speaker 1: live a long time, and I have an aunt who's

250
00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 1: a hundred now, and some of my mother's aunts and

251
00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 1: uncles from uh the Bird line, in the Cope line

252
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,360
Speaker 1: of her family. The Birds and the Copes live a

253
00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 1: long time hundred and four hundred and five. So who knows. However,

254
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,680
Speaker 1: I'm getting I'm in the game for today. That's plenty

255
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,640
Speaker 1: for me. Well how do you feel, I mean, I'm

256
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: fourteen years younger than you and I'm experiencing it. How

257
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,040
Speaker 1: do you feel about your friends and people you know? Passing?

258
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,160
Speaker 1: I hated, I hated. I lost a couple of friends

259
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: to the COVID Dynamic. Wonderful writer named Patty Bosworth was

260
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,520
Speaker 1: a very close friend of mine. She was one of

261
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:35,240
Speaker 1: the first to could leave. She was finishing a book

262
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:41,080
Speaker 1: on UH Paul Robeson. I'm hoping that it's coming out.

263
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:44,400
Speaker 1: I think her publishes. Her publishers said in her oh

264
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:47,880
Speaker 1: bit that she was that it was ready to roll.

265
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,080
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any announcements about it. And that was

266
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:52,960
Speaker 1: a year ago that she died A little over a

267
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,640
Speaker 1: year ago. But of course, yeah, it's terrible. I mean,

268
00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,960
Speaker 1: people die and the ones you don't expect to die,

269
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:08,120
Speaker 1: and you know, only the only the young die young. Okay, now,

270
00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 1: needless to say, just talking about the music business, it's

271
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 1: completely changed from the sixties and seventies from today. And

272
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: one of the big things is stars were much bigger

273
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,000
Speaker 1: back then. Without going into all the technology, why does

274
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,720
Speaker 1: this affect your outlook? It's like, okay, you have all

275
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 1: this visibility in the sixties and seventies and nobody has

276
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,560
Speaker 1: that level of visibility or do you just put your

277
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 1: eyes forward and keep going. Well, the work is what

278
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 1: it's all about, of course, the contact. It's interesting because

279
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:50,480
Speaker 1: during the pandemic I did too viral full fully operational shows.

280
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:54,560
Speaker 1: I went to UH September twenty three. We got in

281
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: the car in our masks and we drove to We

282
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,920
Speaker 1: were driven to Norfolk, Virginia, where I sang to an

283
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,479
Speaker 1: empty theater. It's called the Chrysler Theater, gorgeous theater. And

284
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,120
Speaker 1: we stayed in a hotel. There was a hilton there

285
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,040
Speaker 1: was full. Fully, we didn't eat any food there. We

286
00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:14,680
Speaker 1: took all of our food with us, but we had

287
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,119
Speaker 1: a wonderful time, and I sang into this gorgeous, gorgeous theater.

288
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with that. I love my audiences.

289
00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: But frankly, after all the years of television and recordings

290
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 1: in recruit recording studios where you don't have an audience,

291
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,160
Speaker 1: and I'm a radio girl. I grew up my father

292
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: was in the radio. He had a radio show for

293
00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,199
Speaker 1: thirty years, and so I was on the show and

294
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,040
Speaker 1: I listened to the show, and I was used to

295
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,159
Speaker 1: I'm used to singing wherever it is that I am,

296
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 1: with or without an audience. Then I did a big

297
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 1: town Hall show which I just signed about a hundred

298
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,240
Speaker 1: and fifty posters from that show, which I did here

299
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:55,119
Speaker 1: at town Hall in January, again empty theater. Well, I've

300
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 1: been in town Hall since nineteen sixty four. I've been

301
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: singing there, and town How asked me, would I repeat

302
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,040
Speaker 1: some of the material that I did in nine, which

303
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,560
Speaker 1: involved a number of songs by Tom Paxton, Billiatt Wheeler,

304
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,000
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, and so we did a repeat of a

305
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: number of those things. Of course, we mixed in the

306
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: current some of the current songs, but it was fantastic

307
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,440
Speaker 1: and of course, town Hall is a gorgeous theater with

308
00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,119
Speaker 1: or without people in it, and it's historic, and it

309
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,640
Speaker 1: sort of resonates. It gave me a chance to talk

310
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,880
Speaker 1: about to change, to sort of upgrade my my spield,

311
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 1: you know my spield. I'm funny on stage. I take

312
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,040
Speaker 1: the time and the energy to be funny. I have

313
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 1: done this for a long time, and to tell stories,

314
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,159
Speaker 1: because it came through working at the Carlisle in New

315
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 1: York a lot and having that weekly you know, seven

316
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,520
Speaker 1: six or seven days, six days a week, going in

317
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,679
Speaker 1: and talking while you're working. And of course I have

318
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,439
Speaker 1: a lot of stories having lived all this time and

319
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: known a lot of people, and had a lot of lovers,

320
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,000
Speaker 1: and and had a lot of strange things happened to me.

321
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,320
Speaker 1: And so I was very comfortable. But I also went

322
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: back through the history of town Hall and talked about

323
00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:20,760
Speaker 1: some of the people. The people that first open town

324
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,280
Speaker 1: Hall in New York was the Suffragettes. They hired the

325
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 1: theater and they started out in nineteen one. Was it

326
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,919
Speaker 1: twenty one? I think so. And then everybody you can

327
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,400
Speaker 1: think of performed there, saying they're played in the my

328
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: my teacher, Dr Brico, when I say that I watched

329
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,199
Speaker 1: one of my watched my movie during the lockdown. I

330
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,919
Speaker 1: meant it. I made a movie which was nominated for

331
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 1: an Academy Award in nineteen seventy five, about my teacher,

332
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: Antonio Brico, and she I'm on the stage there where

333
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,080
Speaker 1: I had been in nineteen sixty four, almost fifty years before,

334
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 1: and she had been on the stage during the war

335
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 1: because she had her own orchestra in New York which

336
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,680
Speaker 1: played at Town Hall and at Carnegie Hall. So it

337
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,920
Speaker 1: was a wonderful experience, and I'll tell you it's draw

338
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: It was a very successful experience, and it gave me,

339
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: referring to your idea about exposure. A lot of people

340
00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,840
Speaker 1: have watched it, and town Halls got very excited. In fact,

341
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 1: they made not a CD but a vinyl. So I

342
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: just saw beside vinyls and and posters. I mean, can

343
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,639
Speaker 1: it get any better? I don't know. Okay, let's go

344
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:35,600
Speaker 1: back to the beginning. You're you know, and some of

345
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,800
Speaker 1: this I know from Wikipedia, as opposed to just living

346
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 1: and knowing your career from having experienced it. So you

347
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: grow up in Seattle at age four, you move right.

348
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: We moved to to Los Angeles where my dad got

349
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 1: a job at the CBS radio station in Hollywood. And

350
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: so those years from from already five to forty nine,

351
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,399
Speaker 1: we're in in Hollywood and in the midst of stardom,

352
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:12,640
Speaker 1: and that's where he met got got all kinds of

353
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,000
Speaker 1: stars that he met. But he also got um involved

354
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,320
Speaker 1: with people who what's the diet guru Gaylord Houser. So

355
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: from then on we ate right, you know, we didn't

356
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,960
Speaker 1: need any white things. We didn't need any any white

357
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: rice or white bread. And he was always on a

358
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,640
Speaker 1: health kick, so that I'm sure that helped everybody. And

359
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 1: then after Denver, after Seattle and then Hollywood, we moved

360
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: to Denver in n Now, your father was blind. He

361
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,960
Speaker 1: was he was blind from the age of four, and

362
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 1: he had I think, a stunning career and really life.

363
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 1: He was He was brilliant, he was funny. He he

364
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 1: read everything in Braille. He thought, if you hadn't read

365
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 1: Moby Dick by the time you were seven, there was

366
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 1: something fundamentally wrong with you. And so I got rid

367
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: the Russians and Ruskolnikov and and Mark Twain, and I

368
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,959
Speaker 1: grew up in a literate and musical household that was.

369
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: There was none like it. And I played the piano

370
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,200
Speaker 1: from the age of about five, maybe four and a half.

371
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: But let's go back at chapter how did your parents meet? Ah?

372
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: They I had my mother right out her a story

373
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 1: of her meeting my father. And and she was in Seattle.

374
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: They broth in Seattle. She was one of nine kids.

375
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,480
Speaker 1: She was in her early twenties, well I think she was.

376
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 1: She was twenty two, maybe three, and she was in college.

377
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,480
Speaker 1: And she got on a bus to go home, and

378
00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: this fellow was there, she said, dressed nicely, dressed in

379
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: and she noticed he sat down and began pulled out

380
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: a very large book and began running his hands over

381
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: at which at which point she realized he was blind.

382
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: He didn't have a dog, he didn't have a cane.

383
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 1: So there was only his appearance with the Briale book

384
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 1: that gave her the clue. And when she got up

385
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: to get off, he got up, got up to get off,

386
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: it's the same spot. And she tried to help him,

387
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: you know, she said, can I give you a hand

388
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: or something? And he brusquely refused that. He said, I

389
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: don't need any help or something. Then it turned out

390
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: that he was walking in her directions, and he was

391
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: going to a club called Kenny's, which was on Queen

392
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 1: Anne Hill, right near her parents home. And they started

393
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 1: talking and he said, why don't you come and see me?

394
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: And they did, the family and her sisters and her

395
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: best friend, Eleene. They started to go to Kenny's to

396
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: hear daddy play the piano and say. My father had

397
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 1: a gorgeous voice, and he sang all the Rodgers and

398
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,360
Speaker 1: heart wonderful hits of the day. And he said to her, now,

399
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: I'm having my radio debut next Saturday night, so I

400
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: hope that you and your friends and your family will listen.

401
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 1: So Eileen and she and Aline, her best friend, sat

402
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: down in front of the old Pine Emerson Walnut radio.

403
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 1: You know, the huge thing that you should fill up, Yeah,

404
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: the console. And in the middle of this performance that

405
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: my father did, he was singing, U been so long

406
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: since yo, you went away. I think about you every day.

407
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: My body, my body remember it. Your buddy misses you.

408
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: And my my mother is in tears. And Aline said,

409
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: what is wrong with you? And my mother said, that's

410
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: the man I'm going to marry, and she did. She

411
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 1: went home and told her parents, I think she told

412
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: her parents before she told my father, and so, so

413
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: then you, uh, you start to take piano lessons. Do

414
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: you like playing the piano? Do you practice? I practice

415
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: all the time. I have to. I practice as I

416
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: once asked my mother if she had to force me

417
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 1: to to play, to practice, and she said no, I

418
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: had to remind you to wash your hands. Because I

419
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,720
Speaker 1: was also a tomboy. I mean I was out in

420
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: it all the time, you know. I was always a

421
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 1: running around town. Okay, And when did you start to

422
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: be singing? I sang right away, I have. My first

423
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: performance was in Butte, Montana. My dad was a big

424
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 1: hit on the radio, and when he lost he lost

425
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: his job on on the on the Seattle radio station,

426
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: but immediately was out on the road with something called

427
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: National School Assemblies, which was something devised by f dr

428
00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 1: Um to accommodate music Asians and communities which needed entertainment,

429
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: and so it was a whole big deal. It was

430
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: something that operated all over the country. But he was

431
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 1: doing the north western route and so I was in

432
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: the car in the big Buick which my father named Claudia.

433
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: From the age of two and a half or so

434
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: and three and we would drive every place and we

435
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: wound up. I mean, the Northwest goes only so far,

436
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: but we wound up in Butte, Montana. And one night

437
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: he was singing and we came to the intermission and

438
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 1: he said, do you want to sing something? Because I

439
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 1: was already singing, he would play the piano for me

440
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: and I would sing. So I said sure. I was

441
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: very excited and I've never been asked to do that before.

442
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 1: And I said, so what should I sing? And he said, well,

443
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: you should sing something, you know, which is always a

444
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: good idea. So I sang I'll be I'll be hung

445
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: for Christmas. You can count on me. And of course

446
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: it was a big hit. And it was also April,

447
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:08,480
Speaker 1: but that was the first of my performances and about

448
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: three maybe, yeah, close to three. So you're in school.

449
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: You go to regular public school? Oh yeah, oh yeah,

450
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: oh the best public schools, by the way, I did

451
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,120
Speaker 1: go to them. Were you known as the singer? Did

452
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: people say, oh that to Judy, she's the singer. Yes,

453
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: oh yes, I sang at the school shows. I sang.

454
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: I played the piano and sang on my father's radio show.

455
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,239
Speaker 1: At my school whatever I was in the choir as,

456
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: the church choir, the school choir. I sang in the

457
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: opera courses I got when I when we moved from

458
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 1: l A to Denver, my father found me a new

459
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: teacher and it just turned out to be Dr Antonio Brico,

460
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 1: who was this wildly famous dynamo conductor and pianist. And

461
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: she did, of course, was always doing opera. So I

462
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: was sang in the operas y Poachi and Onyagan and

463
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 1: so forth. And I played the piano, and I of

464
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: course was going to be a great pianist, she thought.

465
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: And so the first thing I did was the first

466
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: thing she did was to hand me the the manuscript.

467
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: I was going to say, the manuscript, the whatever they

468
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: call it, uh to the Mozart to piano concerto. This

469
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: was when I was eleven, and she said, I want

470
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 1: you to start memorizing this immediately. And so I played

471
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:34,880
Speaker 1: with her orchestra two years later and played the Mozart.

472
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: So I had to practice all the time. Okay, but

473
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 1: when you were practicing, what kind of student were you

474
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: and how did you fit in in school? Were you

475
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: a loner? Were the leader of the group where you're popular?

476
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: I was very popular for lots of reasons. Um, I

477
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: was fun, I had liked people, I got along with people,

478
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: and I was always doing something about me, playing in

479
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: the shows or and I liked my teachers. I was

480
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: not great in algebra, but I was very good in geometry,

481
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: which I think is the clue of why I do

482
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: what I do today, because geometry is really about finding

483
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: your way, and a lot of what I do is

484
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: I travel, and I travel. Of course, I do about

485
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty shows a year normally, that's my normal,

486
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: uh routine, and I've done that for years, well since

487
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight. Before that, before the crash, I

488
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: was probably se shows a year, and now it's twenty.

489
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: That's because finances have changed in the music business. And

490
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: so I was. But my two friends, my two best

491
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: friends who are still I'm still in touch with, and

492
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 1: we're all the same age, which makes it easier. But

493
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 1: they live in different places. Ones on the West Coast,

494
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: ones in Tacoma, ones in Norfolk, not Norfolk, but we're

495
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: all uh, I don't remember, it's a Confederate town and uh.

496
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: And so we've been friends since we were in grade

497
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: school in Denver and then in junior high in high school,

498
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: we formed a group, a trio, and we called ourselves

499
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: the Little Reds. Oh, everybody else called us the Little Reds. Two.

500
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: It wasn't it wasn't political as it would have been

501
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: if we were here in New York. But we were

502
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: called the Little Reds because we did a version of

503
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: Little Red Riding Hood. And I sat at the piano

504
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: and I made up the themes of Red Riding Hood

505
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: and the wolf and the grandmother, and and the girls

506
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: danced the story, and I played it and told it

507
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: on the on the piano, and that's what led. And

508
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm I'm at this late date in my career, in

509
00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: my life, I have put together that really it was all.

510
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: The rest of the music was going to be there anyway.

511
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: I was always going to be playing the piano. I

512
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: was now. I was learning rockmaninof to play with my

513
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: teacher's orchestra. And but the girls and I needed a

514
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: new piece of of of we needed a new story

515
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: because we've done this everywhere and done at the all

516
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: the clubs, you know, the Elks Club and the Kawana's Club,

517
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: and the and Lowry Air Force Base and for Simmons

518
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: General Hospital, and we even went to the Brown Palace

519
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: where we met one of those famous movie stars. Can't

520
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: remember his name right now. That's the only thing I

521
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:40,880
Speaker 1: have to complain about this. Once in a while a

522
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: name slips my mind. It wasn't Tony Curtis. Maybe it

523
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: was Tony Curtis. So we needed some new material and

524
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: I was supposed to be playing this rock mining off

525
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: piano concerto, which I was gonna do with my orchestra.

526
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: I was about fifteen and a half now, and uh,

527
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 1: but I got up and went over to the radio

528
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: and turned it on. And you know, my father sang

529
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: all of the great American songbook material, but he also

530
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: every once in a while he'd break into, oh oh,

531
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: Danny boy, the pipes, the pipes are called. He'd do

532
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: a little Irish or English melody. And I turned on

533
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: the radio and I heard the Gypsy Rover, and I

534
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: heard the next week, I heard Barbara Allen. So those

535
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: two songs locked it into my brain that this was

536
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: the music I was going to go after. I didn't

537
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: know anything about folk music, or about the folk revival,

538
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: or about any of these people. But down at Wells

539
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: Music when I went to buy this record of the

540
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: Gypsy Rover, which was It was in the soundtrack of

541
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,600
Speaker 1: an Allen lab movie called The Black Night, so it

542
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: was very popular. It was movie great success. And when

543
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 1: I went into Wells Music, the guy said, well, you

544
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,320
Speaker 1: know what you're looking for? You here it is. I

545
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 1: have it. Yeah, I have it. So I bought it

546
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: with my babysitting money and he said, we'll see you

547
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: around on the walls. See all these albums this is

548
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: there's the Classy Brothers, and there's Josh White over there,

549
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: and there's Pete Seeger and there's Gene Richie. I said,

550
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: what is that and he said his folk music? And

551
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: I said what he said, it's folk music. And that's

552
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: where I began to see my life opening up before me.

553
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,480
Speaker 1: You graduate from high school, then what do you do? Well,

554
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: this was before that, I understand, but I want to

555
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: get back to that with context, into the full folk music.

556
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: So by the time I had graduated from high school,

557
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: I had, first of all, I been um, my boyfriend

558
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: was this guy that I married, and we've been having

559
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: our love affair for a couple of years already. But

560
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: I had already memorized and learned and gone to the

561
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: gotten that my calluses on my fingers to play the guitar.

562
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: And I had a guitar now, and I went to

563
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 1: all the folk music meetings in the folk Folklore Center,

564
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: and I met Lingo, the drifter who played all the

565
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: songs of Witdy Guthrie. So I had that in my

566
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: bag of tricks, so to speak, and I sang it

567
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 1: every place I went. I took the guitar, I sang.

568
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: I went off to a year of college in this

569
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: dreary little well. I shouldn't say that, insulting a college

570
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: in southern Illinois. I don't know how I got there.

571
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: I think my mother got me a scholarship from one

572
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: of her peo groups, some some Unitarian gathering of souls

573
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: who had who got together and got me some sort

574
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: of a scholarship. Anyway, came back from that at and

575
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 1: that's when I went to the mountains with my husband

576
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: to be, and we got married in the mountains. And uh,

577
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: I just would make bread and pies on a woodstove,

578
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: and then I sit on the porch and play this

579
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: land is your land. So that's how it all began

580
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 1: to unfold. So how did you get from the mountains

581
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: to the east coast? I had uh when we were

582
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: finished with the mountains, and we tried to buy the

583
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: fernlike Lodge. My husband was now in graduate school at

584
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 1: the University of Colorado. We moved back down to Boulder.

585
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: We got a little apartment in the basement. I had

586
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 1: my first my only son, Clark, who was a little baby.

587
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: And I had a job. I worked at the university

588
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,239
Speaker 1: in the filing department. And my husband, of course, was

589
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: in school, and he had a job. He had a

590
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,880
Speaker 1: paper route at four in the morning, and it was February,

591
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 1: and he said he came in put on his boots.

592
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: It was snowing. Of course, it's always snowing in Colorado.

593
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 1: And he came in and he said, he looked at me,

594
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I was going off to

595
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: file papers at the university later that day, and Mrs

596
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: Chingley was going to take care of the baby. And

597
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: he said to me, why don't you get a job

598
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 1: doing something you know how to do. You've always been

599
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: a musician. You have all these songs. Look, I had

600
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: no clue that you could get a job singing these songs.

601
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: I mean, there was no indications that I didn't know

602
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: anything about that world. I knew all those people that

603
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: made records, But I thought records were for learning songs.

604
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: That's what I figured. And so I called my father

605
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: and I said, what about this? Do you know anybody

606
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: up here and Boulder that Do you know anybody who

607
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: knows anything about this? And he said, yeah, let me

608
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: let me make some calls. So people will tell you

609
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: that all the time. Let me make some calls. But

610
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: he did, and he found this friend of ours from

611
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: Denver who knew all about the clubs and Boulder and

612
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: had this connection with a couple of the owners of

613
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: bars and restaurants. And so I got a job at

614
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: Michael's Pub in March of nineteen fifty nine. And I

615
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: came home with a job and a hundred bucks a week,

616
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 1: which was a lot of money in nineteen fifty nine,

617
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: when I'd been making forty five cents and a bottle

618
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: of Coors beer for working in the college. So I started.

619
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: And in those days, you know this, you know a

620
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: lot about this, this business, Bob. So you know that

621
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: in those days it was really a matter of word

622
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: of mouth. It wasn't even agents or gatherings. It wasn't

623
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: really morse. It was you know, you're saying at the

624
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: club for a few weeks. And the guy who owned

625
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,880
Speaker 1: the club told the next people down the road, oh,

626
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: you know, she we got we sold some tickets since

627
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: she did well, and so on. So that started it.

628
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: And right away I was singing at the Gilded Garter

629
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: in CenTra City. There was Bob Bob Dylan who was

630
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: then called Robert whatever his name is, Zimmerman. He was homeless.

631
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: He was trying to get a job singing at everybody's

632
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 1: hooting atis. You know, you'd get to sing three songs

633
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,759
Speaker 1: in a row. Uh. And then I when I got

634
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 1: to New York a couple of years later, he was

635
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: there in New York, same homeless as well. It was

636
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,439
Speaker 1: six one when I got here, so he still had

637
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: not changed his name, and I thought he was pathetic.

638
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, he's singing these old witty

639
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: Guthrie blues. I thought, badly, badly chosen, badly sung. I

640
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: couldn't believe it. Then one day I opened up the

641
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 1: Bible of folk music that's called sing Out. It was

642
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,439
Speaker 1: a little tiny pamphlet in those days. Now it's a great,

643
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:06,240
Speaker 1: big piece of literature. It looks like a life magazine,

644
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: compared to what it used to look like. Anyway, there

645
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: was a song after I have a few drinks with

646
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 1: him and heard him sing at the hooting Nanny and

647
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 1: I think he was opening for uh Robert Johnson or

648
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: one of the one of the blue singers. After I

649
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: had closed at Girty's Folk City and uh, so I

650
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: looked at this little book and there was this song

651
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 1: printed out. It said blowing in the Wind. Nice title,

652
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: I thought, and I read the lyric and I was

653
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: then the Then they printed the melody. I said, oh

654
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: my god, this is this is brilliant. And at the

655
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: bottom it said Bob Dylan. And I had known that

656
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: he had changed his name to Bob Dylan, and I

657
00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 1: thought there has to be some mistake here, so I

658
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 1: wrote him a fan letter, which of course he didn't

659
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: get because he was homeless. But still, but of course

660
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:08,799
Speaker 1: I became a complete um wreck over his music. I mean,

661
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: I just thought he was and I recorded him right away.

662
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: I recorded well. One of the songs that I sang

663
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 1: at town Hall in January was the Lonesome Death of

664
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: Hattie Carroll, which when I heard it in sixty two,

665
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: I said, well, I have to sing that song. It

666
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: is one of the great songs of all times, and

667
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: it is, and of course it's as appropriate today as

668
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: it ever was. Okay, let's go back. The folk scene

669
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: has really been lost to time. Most people think popular

670
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: music started with the Beatles, but for those of us

671
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: who were older and you certainly lived through it and

672
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: were part of it and uh before me. But it

673
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 1: was such a big scene. They even had a show

674
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: on TV hood Nanny, So can he give us a

675
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: feel of what the folk music scene was like and

676
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: how that developed? It was amazing. There was a shift

677
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:08,279
Speaker 1: in the culture which had to do I sink with

678
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 1: the guitar and the singer songwriter, and thus because previous

679
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: to that, in the fifties you had to have a band.

680
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: I mean I had a job with the with the

681
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: band singing Rogers and Heart when I was sixteen getting dressed.

682
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: I was under age, so they had to get rid

683
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: of me. But because I had to sing in bars

684
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: and I wasn't able to go in. But before fifty

685
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: nine sixty, before the Newport Festival which started in fifty nine,

686
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: you had to if you if you were going to

687
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 1: go anywhere, do anything, you had to have a band.

688
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 1: You had to have a uh, one of the Rogers

689
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: and Hart songs, one of the new songs from the

690
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: shows in New York. And you had to have all

691
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 1: the accouterments that surrounded you, orchestras, soloists, long dresses, and

692
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there's this crop of kids playing

693
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: guitars and singing songs. You remember that Woody Guthrie and

694
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: Pete Seegers started their lives as protesters, as people on

695
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: the edge, on the outside of the inner circle. And

696
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,760
Speaker 1: they were originally writing songs to raise money for the unions.

697
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: And that's what where their hearts were, and that's what

698
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: they were doing. Sometimes people forgot about that in those esoteric,

699
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 1: pristine years of some of the some of the Newport years.

700
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: Because I even was on the board of Newport. As

701
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: I said, I moved to New York in sixty three.

702
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,440
Speaker 1: Just one second. What was the motivation to moved to

703
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: New York? I had? Um, I was in the hospital.

704
00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 1: My my marriage broke up in sixty two. And what

705
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: happened was that the marriage broke up and I also

706
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: got sick. Just just since we're getting there, why did

707
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: the marriage break up? Um? Well, we were awfully young

708
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: when we met and I think that over the course

709
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 1: of my growing career and the fact that it was

710
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: very hard on on motherhood and being married, I just

711
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 1: think we didn't get along anymore and we weren't going

712
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: to stay together. And I left New York to go

713
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: out to Tucson to sing after I opened actually for

714
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: Theodore macall at Carnegie Hall in sixty two in October,

715
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: and then I got on a plane for Tucson. And

716
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: when I got to Tucson, I was working at a

717
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 1: little club called ash Alley, and I was already having

718
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:46,120
Speaker 1: trouble breathing. My lungs were gurgling, and I didn't want

719
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: to do anything about it because I didn't want to

720
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: go to the doctor because I thought that a doctor

721
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: would tell me to slow down and stop running around

722
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: and working. So the people that ran the club also

723
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: were interns at the two on Clinic, and they worked

724
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: for a doctor who was a long specialist, and they

725
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: took one look at me when I got in that night,

726
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: and they said, we're taking you to the hospital tomorrow,

727
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: and which he did, and Dr Schneida took one look

728
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: at me and said, you have TV and you're not

729
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 1: going anywhere. And so there I was with my guitar

730
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 1: and my notebooks and a court of kalua and a

731
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: case of of course beer, no it was, I'm sorry,

732
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: it was a Canadian beer. And there I stayed for

733
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 1: the beginning of what became five months of hospitalization, and

734
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 1: my husband came to see me and brought my son

735
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,839
Speaker 1: to Denver, where my mother lived. Then I went from

736
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: Tucson for a month to Denver to National Jewish Hospital.

737
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: I got in there only because because C. Bickell was

738
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: on the board of directors and he got me in

739
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 1: there or I don't know where i'd be actually, but

740
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: they were great. And I was in Denver with my

741
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: mother and my son was there, which was fabulous, and

742
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,920
Speaker 1: my husband and I broke the knot and said this

743
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: is not gonna work, which it wasn't, and so then

744
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: of course I was stranded in in National Jewish Hospital.

745
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: And when I left National Jewish Hospital, I went to

746
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: New York. New York was the place we had lived

747
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: in Connecticut for a while, and I had worked in

748
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: New York at Gertie's Folk City, driven two or three

749
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: hours back and forth for a while. So that was

750
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: part of probably my health breakdown, was that stress of

751
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: traveling and working and driving and singing and so on.

752
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: So I knew when you moved to New York, where

753
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: are your ex husband and your son? In uh in Connecticut,

754
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 1: in stores, Connecticut where he was teaching. And you know,

755
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,479
Speaker 1: he was a good guy. I mean, there's nothing wrong

756
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 1: with him really, except that we didn't mesh anymore and

757
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: that was just the problem. And did you get along thereafter? No? No, No,

758
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: he was he was great. He was great, He was

759
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: very generous. He uh specifically wanted to have custody, and

760
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: I fought him for it. I the custody battle was hard,

761
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 1: and I lost it, which you know, my lawyer said,

762
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: you can't lose women never lose custody in nineteen sixty three,

763
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: that's out of the question. But I lost custody. I

764
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: was told by my lawyer that the reason that I

765
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: lost custody was that I was in therapy, which is

766
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:43,680
Speaker 1: the first thing I did when I got to New

767
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,319
Speaker 1: York was to get into therapy, which was the best

768
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: thing I could have possibly done and probably saved my sanity.

769
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: And uh So, nowadays, if you weren't in custody, if

770
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: you weren't in therapy, you'd lose custody. But in those

771
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: days it was so unique that that, you know, the

772
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: judge in Connecticut couldn't conceive of anybody being in custody

773
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: who wasn't totally crazy and who certainly didn't have the

774
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: right to have a child. Anyway, a couple of years

775
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: later I got got full custy. But even though that happened,

776
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: I was always he was Peter was always generous with

777
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: everything about I mean, I could have he could have

778
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: lived with me, actually if I hadn't had the tour.

779
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: But he was very good. He's a good guy. He

780
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,600
Speaker 1: was always a good guy. Okay, so take us back.

781
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 1: You know, we're in the early days. You're talking about

782
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: the folk scene. So suddenly you could play with the guitar,

783
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: you didn't need a complete orchestra and play out how

784
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 1: that scene goes. It was amazing. It was just amazing.

785
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: I landed. I knew that I had to be in

786
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 1: New York. I knew that the village was the hotbed

787
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: of all the writers and all of the extraordinary music

788
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 1: that was coming out into that world. And I didn't.

789
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: By the way, one of the pieces of this which

790
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: I've which I think is fundamental to my career, and

791
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: to my fortune, the good fortune that I've had is

792
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: that my skill. I was never a great guitarist, please,

793
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:18,840
Speaker 1: but I did know how to choose songs. My father

794
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: had really taught me that. My mother always reminded me.

795
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 1: She would say, you know, you didn't invent this. He

796
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: taught you how to how to choose a song. And

797
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: I had that innate ability to to to know when

798
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: I heard the right song that it was right for me,

799
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: and if it wasn't, I didn't go near it. And

800
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: so there I was among people a lot of whom

801
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 1: were writing songs, but many of whom didn't have contracts.

802
00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: So quite often I would be the first person to

803
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: record the songs of an artist to who I would

804
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: help to launch. I would help because I had the

805
00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: recording contract. How did I get the recording contract? When

806
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:07,360
Speaker 1: I started singing in Colorado, I was I moved from

807
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 1: Michael's Pub to the Gilded Garter in Central City, and

808
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 1: then I went to Denver to a place called the Exodus,

809
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: and that was a very, very fundamental club to the

810
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 1: folk movement. There were clubs like that all over the country.

811
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: They were hugely influential for anybody who was playing the

812
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: guitar and singing songs. I opened for Josh White, I

813
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: opened for the Terriers. I opened for a guy named

814
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: Bob Gibson. Bob Gibson played the guitar, played the banjo,

815
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: and sang and was a recording artist with Electra. A

816
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 1: number of those artists had recorded with the Elector, including

817
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:54,960
Speaker 1: the Terriers and and Josh White. And Bob Gibson had

818
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: been the one who heard Joan Bias in Boston and

819
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 1: called p Seeger and Uh, the fellow who started the

820
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 1: Newport Festival, and said, I have found your star. I'm

821
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 1: going to bring her to the Newport Festival, which he did.

822
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: That was September of fifty nine August of fifty nine.

823
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: He then came to Denver and I opened for him.

824
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: He called Jack Holsman and said to Jack Holsman, who

825
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: was president of Elector, I have found your Joan Bias

826
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: and Jack and I only found this out two years

827
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,799
Speaker 1: two years later, two years ago. I mean I only

828
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: found this out how much? At least sixty years later?

829
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: Jack went to Denver, but he didn't He listened, but

830
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: he didn't introduce himself and he didn't show himself to

831
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: me and when he told me this a couple of

832
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: years ago, he said, you know, I went and I

833
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: heard you, and I said, you know she has talent.

834
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 1: That he said, I didn't know if you had the

835
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: mileage you, if you had the commitment in you. I

836
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: said to him, you should have asked me. I was

837
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 1: in for it from the very beginning. And when I

838
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 1: was in New York two years later in sixty one,

839
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: when I opened at the at Gurneys, Folk City, which

840
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 1: again was one of these clubs which was a um

841
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: what do they call it, a magnet for artists of

842
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,719
Speaker 1: all kinds, starting with with Dylan. Dylan worked there and

843
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: so many many artists worked there, and I worked there.

844
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,480
Speaker 1: And the clubs were scattered, as I said, around the country.

845
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:40,240
Speaker 1: In in the on the West Coast, there was a Troubador.

846
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: There was that place I never worked in um I

847
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: can't remember who started. There was the Hungry Eye in

848
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: San Francisco. In in Chicago, there was the Gate of Horn,

849
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 1: where I worked in nineteen sixty for weeks on end

850
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: I opened for the Terriers there again I opened for

851
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,759
Speaker 1: I met O'Dell to there. I met Sonny Terry and

852
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: Brownie McGee there everywhere there was this burgeoning gathering storm,

853
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: so to speak, of singer songwriters and of all kinds,

854
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 1: of all all sorts. The old blues singers used to

855
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: show come to the to the Newport Festival. Uh, the

856
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 1: the religious bands from from New Orleans would come. Uh,

857
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: all of the pickers and fiddlers from Boston, you know,

858
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: the New York City ramblers would come. There was a

859
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: gathering as I it is like a gathering storm, but

860
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,200
Speaker 1: of the good kind. And so by the time I

861
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: got to New York in sixte I was booked to

862
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: do a couple of weeks or three weeks I think

863
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: at gurnie S Folks City, and then I went across

864
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: the street to the gate of the village gate and

865
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 1: I did a movie. I did a recording there for

866
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 1: a film, and the Clancy brothers were in it, and

867
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 1: Josh White, uh not Josh Pa. Theodore McCall was in it,

868
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: and the and a girl named Lynn Gold was And

869
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:16,520
Speaker 1: when it was finished, Jack Holsman, president of Electra, walked

870
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: up to me and said, dear, you're ready to make

871
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: a record. So he had waited those two years to

872
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: find out what would happen with me. Where I would

873
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: be going and so on a handshake, and John Hammond

874
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,759
Speaker 1: called me a week later and said, would you like

875
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: to sign with Columbia? Said, I just made a deal

876
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: with Jack Holseman on a handshake, So I'm sorry I

877
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 1: have to pass. Okay. So now you have a record deal.

878
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: You cut a record that separates you from so many

879
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: in the village. Okay, So you start to make records

880
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:57,719
Speaker 1: forgetting the inner scene of the people in New York. Uh.

881
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 1: After you make a record to what to We? Does

882
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: that change your career? Change your life? It helps because

883
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 1: it's a calling card in a way, and it opened up,

884
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: uh further the stream of clubs and by sixties and

885
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: I would make a record basically throughout my career, I've

886
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 1: made a record either every year or every year and

887
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: a half, every eighteen months or so pretty much regularly. Uh.

888
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,000
Speaker 1: And because I started, and because it was the time

889
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,959
Speaker 1: that it was. If you made a record, you didn't

890
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,399
Speaker 1: have to sell a million records to make an impression.

891
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: And you also didn't have to sell a million records

892
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:45,440
Speaker 1: to to um convinced your record company to keep putting

893
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: money in you. You know, I I have had my

894
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: own record label now for a few years, and I

895
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: understand I signed a lot of artists that I really

896
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 1: care about, but I understand what record labels were up against.

897
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,360
Speaker 1: They had they had to be sure if they signed

898
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: an artist that the artist was going to tour, because

899
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:09,520
Speaker 1: there was no other way to sell records really, And

900
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 1: so I was a touring I was a queen of

901
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: the touring. I loved it. I did it. I wanted

902
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: to do it. I knew I was going to be

903
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: able to make a living that way, and that impressed

904
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:25,480
Speaker 1: me a lot that making a living was possible, and

905
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: so it was helpful. And also it meant that I

906
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 1: could go on. And of course, because I didn't write

907
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:35,080
Speaker 1: my own songs, I was gathering together the songs of

908
00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: many artists who couldn't get a record. As you said,

909
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,800
Speaker 1: you know that everybody didn't have a record record deal

910
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: in those days. So I was one of the first.

911
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: I even was the first person to record Brandy Newman.

912
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: Strangely enough, it's a it's a great somebody sent us

913
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: a copy. I mean, this happens in my career many times,

914
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: the little bit slower. So how did you get the song?

915
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: I was about ready to record an album called In

916
00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: My Life, and I had sort of jumped the fence

917
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 1: with that album because I had already made five albums

918
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:24,360
Speaker 1: and uh, the last one was called the fifth Album.

919
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 1: I think we didn't have a name for it, and

920
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:32,160
Speaker 1: somebody sent us then my my producer, Jack Mark Abramson

921
00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,920
Speaker 1: and I and I think Jack had something to do

922
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,279
Speaker 1: with it. To Jack was always involved completely. He's like

923
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 1: the chef who goes into the kitchen all the time

924
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: and checks out all the recipes and make sure you're

925
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: doing it right. And he had great taste and has

926
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: great taste, and Uh, it's a great fellow to know

927
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: and be with. And we decided, Okay, enough guitars, enough

928
00:56:55,200 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan, enough, Tom Paxton, enough, even Richard Frena, enough

929
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 1: Pete and Woody. We're going to jump the fence and

930
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: do things that are from a whole different point of view.

931
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 1: So I wanted to record songs from Uh. I wanted

932
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:17,560
Speaker 1: to record Pirate Jenny. I wanted to record the songs

933
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: from Mark the Maratsad and have them orchestrated by Josh Rifkin.

934
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:28,000
Speaker 1: And Josh Rifkin was a part of the Electric family

935
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: because he did a lot of things for None Such.

936
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: He found that Scott Joplin rags and he translated them

937
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: and started playing them. He orchestrated handle he put wonderful,

938
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: wonderful music together for the None Such album, and he

939
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:46,640
Speaker 1: he was our friends. So Mark and I said, oh, okay,

940
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: let's get Josh to record and orchestrate the things from

941
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: the uh marasad pirate. Jenny and we actually went to

942
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: England to record, and we got a choir that we

943
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: liked over there, and we were just about finished with

944
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: the album when uh somebody came to our door and

945
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 1: dropped a tape off and it was a tape of

946
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:19,680
Speaker 1: Randy Newman singing Broken Windows and Empty Star Wars, and

947
00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:23,800
Speaker 1: we said, oh my god. So we put the album

948
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: together and we recorded that song, and Randy heard it

949
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:34,200
Speaker 1: and he said, oh, I see, I'm not gonna spend

950
00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 1: my life doing music for movies. I'm going to be

951
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 1: a singer's all writer. He says that he did that,

952
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: that he knew that I had recorded it and put

953
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 1: and I had been doing that with a lot of

954
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,400
Speaker 1: artists whose material, as you pointed out, was getting out

955
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: when they didn't have record labels, and by that time

956
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 1: I was sort of I was paying the bills at Elector,

957
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: I was working, I was selling albums. I was courting

958
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:04,680
Speaker 1: artists that would become very, very very famous, and in

959
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: a way I was contributing to this folk music revival

960
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: in in my Own Way. And the next album was

961
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: On On On The On, The in my Life album

962
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 1: was when I had discovered No. I didn't discover him.

963
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen found me, and he found a little bit slower.

964
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 1: Tell us how we found you. I had a friend

965
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: in the city that I would have dinner with. There

966
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,200
Speaker 1: were a bunch of us, Lily Tomlin and Jane Wagner

967
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 1: and my friend Linda. Oh this is long before laughing. Yeah,

968
00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 1: how do you know Lily Tomlin and Jane Wagner Because

969
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 1: they were friends of my friend Linda Gottlieb Linda. I'll

970
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 1: think of her name in a minute. Anyway, they were

971
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: They were just social friends that I met and somehow

972
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: we bonded and we would have dinner once in a while.

973
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: And Mary Martin was one of these women. She was

974
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: working in the music business. She was working for Warner Brothers,

975
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 1: and she was working for um Al Grossman Albert who

976
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,960
Speaker 1: also owned the club I had sung it in Chicago.

977
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,480
Speaker 1: He owned the Gate of the Gate of Horn. Yeah,

978
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 1: and so and so we would go out for dinner.

979
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 1: I go out to dinner with the girls. And we

980
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 1: would just hang out and have dinner and go to

981
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:33,360
Speaker 1: the various clubs. And Mary would talk about Leonard. She'd say,

982
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's this guy. I went to McGill with him,

983
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 1: I grew up with him in Montreal, and he's just

984
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: a brilliant poet. He's a wonderful guy. But we're also

985
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: really upset because he's not He really is not going anywhere.

986
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: And I would say, well, that's too bad. You know,

987
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: I didn't know him, I never met I said, that's

988
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 1: too bad. I said, why do you feel this way better?

989
01:00:56,320 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 1: And Mary said, you know these poems that her sow.

990
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: He gets published and we buy his books and we

991
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:05,680
Speaker 1: go to the readings, but you know the problem is

992
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 1: that they are so obscure. Nobody knows what he's really

993
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 1: talking about, and so we're worried. I said, well, sounds

994
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 1: like a sad story to me. Then one day in

995
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,920
Speaker 1: sixties six, she called me up and she said, guess what,

996
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: Leonard wants to come and see you. He wants to

997
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:29,120
Speaker 1: sing you his songs. So I said to her, are

998
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:34,920
Speaker 1: they obscure? And she said, oh yes, oh yes they're obscure.

999
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: That's we'll see. But he's coming to see you. He

1000
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: wants to see you. So he came, you know, and

1001
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: I thought, I opened the door, and I thought, I

1002
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: don't care if he doesn't write songs. He was very

1003
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:52,400
Speaker 1: good looking man and very smart and very charming, darling,

1004
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: absolutely wonderful man and amazing man. And he came in

1005
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,560
Speaker 1: and he said, I can't sing and I can't play

1006
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: the guitar, and I don't know if these are songs.

1007
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: And then he sang me the Stranger Song and dress

1008
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:11,360
Speaker 1: rehearsal rag and Suzanne, and I said, these are great,

1009
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: these are wonderful. I said, I'll record them tomorrow. And

1010
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,400
Speaker 1: I did two out of three. I didn't do the

1011
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: Stranger song. I still will have to have the Stranger

1012
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: song somewhere on an album. I'll do it. And so

1013
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:29,720
Speaker 1: that's how we became friends. That's how I recorded his songs.

1014
01:02:29,800 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 1: And after I recorded Susanne on my fifth fifth album,

1015
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: on my sixth album, in my Life, he said he

1016
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: called me up and he said, you've made me famous.

1017
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,439
Speaker 1: And I said, well, that's wonderful. That's good. It's good

1018
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:51,000
Speaker 1: for you, good for us. It's a great song, Susanne,

1019
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:55,400
Speaker 1: it's a great song. And uh, he said, but there's

1020
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:58,920
Speaker 1: one thing I don't understand, which is I don't understand

1021
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: why you're not what writing your own songs. And I

1022
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: didn't have any answer. Dylan had always said to me,

1023
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:12,760
Speaker 1: you should. You know people who say that you should

1024
01:03:12,960 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 1: do such, and you don't want to ever listen to

1025
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: those people. And but it was the way that the

1026
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:24,640
Speaker 1: way that Leonard asked it was different. There was the

1027
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: difference between some kind of socratic method and the other way.

1028
01:03:29,160 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 1: I don't know what the difference is exactly, but it's

1029
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: not it's not the same as saying you should. And

1030
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,680
Speaker 1: he said, I just don't know why you don't. So

1031
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: I came home. I already had my Steinway. I had

1032
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: already moved uptown because I needed more room because now

1033
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: I had to have custody of my son. I had

1034
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 1: to have a bigger apartment, and I had my Steinway,

1035
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: and I sat down and I started fiddling around, and

1036
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: I wrote a song called since You've asked. That was

1037
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,280
Speaker 1: the first. Now you know, my books and my study

1038
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:02,800
Speaker 1: are filled with attempt, some of which have made it

1039
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: to the stage. And so I've been writing ever since then.

1040
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: So what is your technique today for writing a song?

1041
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,560
Speaker 1: It's twofold. First of all, I have to practice every day.

1042
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: That's essential. And when I finished with my hand and

1043
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: my charny and my exercises, I can usually listen to

1044
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: something or read something while I do hand and charny,

1045
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 1: and thank god I can do that. So then I

1046
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: put that aside, and then I take the copies of

1047
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 1: poetry that I've written in the past day or day

1048
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,360
Speaker 1: or two or week, and I put it up in

1049
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:47,560
Speaker 1: front of the piano. Wa wa. The poetry is that

1050
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: something you write on inspiration? Is it something you force

1051
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: yourself to write? How does the how do the words

1052
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 1: come to be? Well, it's both. It's a chore and

1053
01:04:56,720 --> 01:05:00,320
Speaker 1: a pleasure, but it's also a responsibility. Is if I

1054
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 1: don't write things down. I've written a number of books

1055
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: over the years, and I've written a lot of songs

1056
01:05:11,160 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: that some of which have been recorded in some of

1057
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:17,440
Speaker 1: which have, you know, sit there waiting for more attention.

1058
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:22,920
Speaker 1: Sometimes it is I have a friend who says that

1059
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: writing is like is like laying pipe. If you don't

1060
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: do it every day, you're not going to be there

1061
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: when the muse comes through the window. At least that's

1062
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 1: true for me. Some people it doesn't matter. They can

1063
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: write any time of day or night, it doesn't matter.

1064
01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:39,200
Speaker 1: There are me, I have to find the time in

1065
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: the day to get it done, and then when it's done,

1066
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 1: it's done, and then I can look at it and

1067
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: listen to it. I also have times when I'm able

1068
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: to do what I did in the early years, which

1069
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 1: is to sit a noodle at the piano until something

1070
01:05:53,920 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 1: comes through. It's not necessarily something that is going to

1071
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: make it, but if there are a few lines and

1072
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: a few melody, and sometimes it's the melody, sometimes it's

1073
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:11,600
Speaker 1: the lyric, it's the hook. But sometimes it will tighten

1074
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: itself up into a song actually while you're sitting there

1075
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 1: at the piano. And sometimes you'll write something that I

1076
01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:21,640
Speaker 1: have made it u For instance, in I wrote a

1077
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: poem every day, and so at the end of the

1078
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:28,440
Speaker 1: year had three poems, a number of which made it

1079
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 1: into song form. Most you know, two thirds of the

1080
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: poems have wound up in the poem patch, so to speak,

1081
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 1: but some of them make it make it to the piano,

1082
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: and they make it through the test of whether this

1083
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: is really singable or workable. Now, I've got a whole

1084
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,919
Speaker 1: batch of new songs on this album that's coming out

1085
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 1: in uh twenty two, probably the early part, and they're

1086
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 1: all kinds of subjects. It's it's very interesting. It's uh

1087
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: you know, there's me about language and being able to

1088
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 1: hear language, and writers who hear language in songs have

1089
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: a great gift uh lingua franca. They used to call it.

1090
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: It's the common knowledge of people around you and the

1091
01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 1: phrases that they say that are memorable and jump right

1092
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,080
Speaker 1: off the page, and something that will jump right into

1093
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: a melodic structure easily and lead you to then finish

1094
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 1: the story. But it is a job. It's not I

1095
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: don't think for most people. I don't think you can

1096
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: say that it's something you do. It's like falling off

1097
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:38,320
Speaker 1: a log. No, it's a job. You have to do

1098
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 1: it every day. Okay, So you work and you get

1099
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:46,720
Speaker 1: more notoriety having covered Susanne? How do you end up

1100
01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: knowing Joni Mitchell and doing both sides? Now, another miracle

1101
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: coming through the window, an angel at the window. I

1102
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,840
Speaker 1: it was I had, of course recorded Nerd and anyway,

1103
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:06,080
Speaker 1: I loved the Canadians. I recorded and worked worked with

1104
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: and recorded songs by Fred Ed mccurty. At the beginning

1105
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:15,400
Speaker 1: UM Last Night, I had this strange dream. I recorded

1106
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:20,120
Speaker 1: him very early on Ian and Sylvia Canadians of whom

1107
01:08:20,160 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: from whom I learned some day soon, which I would

1108
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:28,760
Speaker 1: do on my UM who Knows Where the Time Goes album?

1109
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 1: So I loved I loved Canadians and Gordie Lightfoot I

1110
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:38,880
Speaker 1: recorded him on that fifth album, and so Canadians were.

1111
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:43,320
Speaker 1: There was something fresh and different about the way they wrote,

1112
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 1: probably the wide open plains or something, or the English influence,

1113
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe, But then Leonard came along, and

1114
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:57,080
Speaker 1: Leonard Leonard blew my mind and of course started my writing.

1115
01:08:57,680 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 1: So the next year, in in sixties Heaven, I'm asleep

1116
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: one night and I get the phone rings and it's

1117
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,639
Speaker 1: three in the morning, and it's my friend Al Cooper.

1118
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: Now I knew Al Cooper because he was hanging around

1119
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: the village. I was hanging around the village. I would

1120
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: always go I loved blood, sweat and tears, so I'd

1121
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,479
Speaker 1: go down to hear them play, and I think I

1122
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 1: was half half in love with I forget the guitar player. Uh.

1123
01:09:25,400 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: And so he knew my phone number by by heart,

1124
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,760
Speaker 1: and it was him on the phone at three in

1125
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: the morning. And I and I had no romantic involvement

1126
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: with al. I just knew him and liked him and

1127
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,000
Speaker 1: hung out with him. And so he called me up,

1128
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:42,840
Speaker 1: and he knew I was recording, and he knew that

1129
01:09:42,880 --> 01:09:45,799
Speaker 1: I was involved with the new with the new album,

1130
01:09:45,960 --> 01:09:49,320
Speaker 1: and that I had started to write my own songs.

1131
01:09:50,160 --> 01:09:53,120
Speaker 1: I had written since you've asked, I'd written Albatross and

1132
01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:59,080
Speaker 1: another song which died in early deserved death. And so

1133
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: he said, Hi, how are you? And I said, I'm fine,

1134
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: how are you? It's three in the morning. Well, it

1135
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:09,519
Speaker 1: could have been in those days I could have been

1136
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,080
Speaker 1: up still or getting ready because I could have been drunk.

1137
01:10:13,200 --> 01:10:17,479
Speaker 1: I probably was surprising that I woke up. But he said,

1138
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: you know, I ran into this girl. She came to

1139
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,720
Speaker 1: the show and she's I think she's in love of

1140
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 1: the drummer and she was hanging out and I asked

1141
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:27,400
Speaker 1: her what she did and she said, I'm a songwriter.

1142
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,519
Speaker 1: So he said she was good looking, and so I

1143
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,559
Speaker 1: decided to follow her home, but he said When I

1144
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:36,320
Speaker 1: got here, I thought, oh my god, Judy has to

1145
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: hear this. So then he turned the telephone in the

1146
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 1: direction of Joanie and she sang me both sides now,

1147
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: and I said, oh my god, what a song. Oh

1148
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 1: be right over, So I was. I went to her

1149
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 1: house at three in the morning. No, I didn't go

1150
01:10:55,160 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: right over. I went over the next day. I called Jack.

1151
01:10:57,840 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: I said, you have to meet me Joni's apartment, and

1152
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: you have to hear the song, because I'm telling you

1153
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: this is it. And I we got there and she

1154
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: played the song and we recorded it and Josh, Josh Rifkin,

1155
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:16,280
Speaker 1: made a beautiful, wonderful arrangement. And you know he's the one.

1156
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:19,839
Speaker 1: We were sitting in this studio in New York, the Columbia,

1157
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:25,520
Speaker 1: the big fat Columbia Orchestra recording studio. We had a

1158
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,080
Speaker 1: nice sized orchestra. But then Josh said, you know, I

1159
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:32,360
Speaker 1: need a harpsichord. I said, what do you need a

1160
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 1: harpsichord for. You have a whole orchestra here. He said, no,

1161
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:40,519
Speaker 1: there's something here in this orchestra that needs to come

1162
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:45,360
Speaker 1: out in a different way. So it's that do that

1163
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:49,000
Speaker 1: and that's where we did it and how we did

1164
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,520
Speaker 1: And then of course I got to know Jony in California.

1165
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: First I hung out with her here and listened to

1166
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 1: her sing her songs to me, and she's just the

1167
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: most splendid writer. She's got an for that thing we

1168
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 1: were saying about the lingua franca, that that that that

1169
01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 1: sense about saying things that are in the conversation, things

1170
01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: that are unusual language that's unusual. It's partly it's partly Canadian,

1171
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:21,519
Speaker 1: it's partly a thing that's a twist that they have

1172
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 1: on communication. It's different than ours and charming and fresh

1173
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: and very powerful. Okay, suddenly the stars aligned and both

1174
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 1: sides now is a gigantic kit. You're recording for years,

1175
01:12:40,479 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: but this How does your life change when suddenly you

1176
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:47,280
Speaker 1: have a worldwide hit. I'd like to say that the

1177
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 1: big change was that everybody answered my phone calls. They

1178
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: really did, They really did. That That was a big change.

1179
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,040
Speaker 1: I didn't. I mean, I started to make some money

1180
01:13:01,120 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 1: at that point. I gave my mother a trip, my

1181
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 1: mother and father trip to uh to Hawaii that Christmas,

1182
01:13:10,360 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 1: and so you know, that was I had a little money,

1183
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 1: not a lot, but I've never had a lot of money,

1184
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: so that's not a big miss. But it did help.

1185
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 1: It certainly helped was my working because then I could

1186
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: pretty much work wherever and did and and have and will.

1187
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:35,960
Speaker 1: But it was a huge thing to have a hit

1188
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty. You're a single woman with a recording

1189
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:47,640
Speaker 1: contract with history, with a hit record, your upbeat, you're talkative,

1190
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 1: you're beautiful. I would think that you'd be fending off

1191
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: men over their basis. I'm also very picky. Well, there

1192
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 1: are two separate issues here. What has been approaching. The

1193
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,160
Speaker 1: other issue is whether you open the door or not

1194
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 1: men Even to this day, you know, an attractive woman,

1195
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,080
Speaker 1: never mind successful with a personality and optimism, you know,

1196
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:20,679
Speaker 1: men are very aggressive. I yeah, well I've been lucky,

1197
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: was guys. I'm also you know, the thing that we

1198
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:29,479
Speaker 1: haven't talked about is that I'm a recovering alcoholic. And

1199
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 1: I was starting in nineteen starting in in uh. When

1200
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 1: I first started, I already knew I was an alcoholic,

1201
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:42,000
Speaker 1: So I figured that that also was a job. The

1202
01:14:42,240 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: job was to drink and to work hard. And if

1203
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: I worked hard and I was successful, I had the

1204
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 1: right to drink. Don't you think. So I felt that

1205
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 1: way about it, and I, of course I didn't know

1206
01:14:56,880 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 1: I had a choice anyway. I didn't have a choice,

1207
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:02,599
Speaker 1: because an alcoholic, an addict who is in their cups

1208
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,960
Speaker 1: and in their addiction does not have a choice that

1209
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 1: they know about until they finally know about it, and

1210
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: then they have a choice. So this went on for

1211
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: the years. All these years were talking about I was

1212
01:15:13,800 --> 01:15:16,320
Speaker 1: drinking like a fish all the time, but I showed

1213
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: up on time. I did exactly what my father did.

1214
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:22,519
Speaker 1: He never missed a job. He was always on time.

1215
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:26,400
Speaker 1: He was a professional. And that was me. That's where

1216
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,599
Speaker 1: I learned to do that, you know, working alcoholic and

1217
01:15:29,680 --> 01:15:32,599
Speaker 1: as it was pretty I was pretty much a blackout

1218
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:39,519
Speaker 1: drinker also, So I managed throughout that horrible part of

1219
01:15:39,560 --> 01:15:42,840
Speaker 1: it was horrible, But I do know that I developed

1220
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 1: something and I think now that I might have been

1221
01:15:45,040 --> 01:15:50,960
Speaker 1: a snob. I think that probably explains my uh situation

1222
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:54,600
Speaker 1: with men. I was very picky. I was also very

1223
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:59,040
Speaker 1: I was always um, very aware of the space that

1224
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 1: I was in a I don't know what happened when

1225
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,640
Speaker 1: I was in blackouts. It was very dangerous territory to me.

1226
01:16:05,160 --> 01:16:08,440
Speaker 1: For for anybody who's who's a blackout drinker there there.

1227
01:16:08,479 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 1: We are vulnerable in every way because we don't know

1228
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:13,840
Speaker 1: what we were doing, we don't know who we're with,

1229
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,400
Speaker 1: we don't know what happened last night. I would call

1230
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,320
Speaker 1: friends and they would say, you know, you told me

1231
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 1: that last night at length, so I don't need to

1232
01:16:21,360 --> 01:16:27,880
Speaker 1: hear this again this morning. And uh, but luck was

1233
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: with me and I was with a couple of guys.

1234
01:16:29,880 --> 01:16:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, Stephen, Stephen such an angel, and

1235
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,160
Speaker 1: we had one of those angelic kind of uh stories,

1236
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 1: which is that we remained friends after the affair, even

1237
01:16:41,200 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: though Sweet Jut Blue Eyes was such a huge hit,

1238
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:50,040
Speaker 1: and that, of course came after I recorded both sides

1239
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:54,519
Speaker 1: Now and it was the album that followed that album.

1240
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 1: And that was when I met Stephen. I didn't know

1241
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:00,400
Speaker 1: he was a fan. He was a and he used

1242
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 1: to go home at night and play my records after

1243
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,799
Speaker 1: he'd been to all the basket clubs in the city

1244
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 1: and come home, like Elaine May would say, you know,

1245
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: the the the basket wouldn't even come back. Not only

1246
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,000
Speaker 1: did it not come back with money, it didn't come

1247
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:20,759
Speaker 1: back at all. And he put on Judy Collins records

1248
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 1: and would put him to sleep, which is I'm not

1249
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,760
Speaker 1: sure if that's a compliment, but it helped him get

1250
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: through some of these nights. And so David Anderley, who

1251
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,440
Speaker 1: was my producer on Who Knows Where the Time Goes? Um,

1252
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 1: he came and played on that album. That's how we met,

1253
01:17:35,880 --> 01:17:39,479
Speaker 1: and we fell in love and had this affair, and uh,

1254
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,919
Speaker 1: you know, he's one. He's wonderful. He's such a incredible musician.

1255
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:46,960
Speaker 1: And then of course it was heartbreaking because the song

1256
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: was so beautiful and it was played every time I

1257
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: turned around. I couldn't get away from it. It was

1258
01:17:51,920 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: like a shield of armor in a way. It just

1259
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,760
Speaker 1: kind of prevented my movement in any direction. And I

1260
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,040
Speaker 1: had in a long affair with Stacy Keach for a

1261
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 1: few years, and then with a couple of other people

1262
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:10,519
Speaker 1: short lived, and then on the brink of losing my

1263
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 1: mind and my career and everything else, I met Lewis

1264
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: and I met him, uh four days before I went

1265
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:22,600
Speaker 1: into treatment for alcoholism in nine and with the I

1266
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:27,439
Speaker 1: don't know, some fortunate piece of luck, I went to

1267
01:18:27,479 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 1: the right place. I was finished, I was done, I

1268
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 1: was wiped out. I had no money, I had no

1269
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: way to work. I couldn't sing, I couldn't do anything

1270
01:18:37,200 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 1: but collapse into the arms of a A and gets over,

1271
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: which I did and which I've done. And so then

1272
01:18:45,479 --> 01:18:50,640
Speaker 1: the second half of my life actually started. When was

1273
01:18:50,680 --> 01:18:53,840
Speaker 1: the first time you heard Sweet Judy Blue Eyes? I

1274
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: heard it in a hotel room in May of sixty nine.

1275
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:01,360
Speaker 1: We had we had split up. Well, you know, he

1276
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 1: lives in l A. I live in New York. He

1277
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 1: we had one big, two big problems. He didn't like

1278
01:19:07,240 --> 01:19:09,720
Speaker 1: l A and he didn't like therapy, and I was

1279
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 1: in both. I was not about to stay in l A.

1280
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:18,120
Speaker 1: I couldn't. I couldn't handle it. It was really too

1281
01:19:18,200 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 1: much for me. Hell a, as I said, I would

1282
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:25,360
Speaker 1: be deentified lived there. I really would. I have been

1283
01:19:25,400 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: too much. So so I heard it. He came to UH.

1284
01:19:32,160 --> 01:19:34,640
Speaker 1: I was doing a concert in Santa Monica, and he

1285
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:38,200
Speaker 1: came to the hotel some place on on the beach,

1286
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:43,080
Speaker 1: and uh he brought me a birthday present of a

1287
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 1: beautiful Martin guitar, which I have still, and a bunch

1288
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,080
Speaker 1: of flowers, and then he said, I have to sing

1289
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:53,280
Speaker 1: you a song. And then he sang me Sweet Judy Boys,

1290
01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,919
Speaker 1: and we were both sobbing, and when it was finished,

1291
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: I said, it is so gorgeous, but it is not

1292
01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 1: going to get me. However, we made we've made it

1293
01:20:04,320 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: a point of staying friends and being friends. We liked

1294
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 1: each other, not just having an affair, but we liked

1295
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:11,960
Speaker 1: each other, and we liked each other's music. I like

1296
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:15,240
Speaker 1: his music as well as I liked anybody's music in

1297
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:20,839
Speaker 1: my life. It's spectacularly. He's a spectacular writer and performing

1298
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 1: what a guitar player doesn't get his due unfortunately anyway,

1299
01:20:25,360 --> 01:20:27,439
Speaker 1: they don't talk about it a lot, but he is.

1300
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:30,360
Speaker 1: He's one of the best. So we remained friends all

1301
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:31,920
Speaker 1: that time. Every once in a while we see each

1302
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 1: other or we talk, or we have a long back

1303
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: back and forth. He'd be in China or Japan or

1304
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:42,200
Speaker 1: something and we'd be texting each other and in in

1305
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: about I think about seven years ago, we were we

1306
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,320
Speaker 1: were both on a big show in Orlando. It was

1307
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:54,679
Speaker 1: an a a RP huge festival show at the theater

1308
01:20:54,760 --> 01:21:00,280
Speaker 1: out there and uh it was unfortunately, um the last show,

1309
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:02,720
Speaker 1: live show that Richie Havens did, So he was on that.

1310
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,680
Speaker 1: Richie was on the show c S and n was was.

1311
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:10,680
Speaker 1: I don't think Neil was, I'm not sure, C S C.

1312
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: Crosby Stills and Nash was on and we were on,

1313
01:21:13,720 --> 01:21:17,679
Speaker 1: and when it was finished, we looked at each other

1314
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:21,000
Speaker 1: and we said, what's the matter with us? Are we

1315
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 1: chopped liver? We should be out there doing our thing together.

1316
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 1: So it took a lot of doing, but in six

1317
01:21:34,120 --> 01:21:37,360
Speaker 1: we did a hundred and fifteen shows together over a

1318
01:21:37,400 --> 01:21:41,799
Speaker 1: period of a year and a half. They were well.

1319
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:44,599
Speaker 1: Steven says they were the top of his career, that

1320
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 1: they were the best time he ever had on stage.

1321
01:21:47,640 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: And you know, most of the time, if you go

1322
01:21:49,080 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 1: to a show with two artists, it'll be a half

1323
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,800
Speaker 1: and half thing, and then if you're lucky, you'll get

1324
01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,000
Speaker 1: a song at the end. But maybe not, not if

1325
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:58,240
Speaker 1: they don't not if the artists don't know each other

1326
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:02,479
Speaker 1: too well. So we were on the stage for two

1327
01:22:02,479 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 1: hours solid together. We each had a solo, but other

1328
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: than that, we sang everything together. And each night I

1329
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 1: would be listening to this extraordinary guitar player, unbelievable, and

1330
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 1: I was a girl singer in a rock and roll band.

1331
01:22:20,360 --> 01:22:23,479
Speaker 1: I mean, just think of that, as I mean, that's

1332
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:25,680
Speaker 1: the top of the world. I always wanted to be

1333
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:30,280
Speaker 1: a rock and roll singer. I just couldn't play that

1334
01:22:30,360 --> 01:22:34,080
Speaker 1: electric guitar. I could not get that together. Okay, will

1335
01:22:34,120 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 1: it happen again? I don't think so. For me. Yes, anytime,

1336
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: any time he has said, well we will see, we'll see.

1337
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:55,919
Speaker 1: Life is long and uh. Anyway, we had a dreamy

1338
01:22:56,000 --> 01:23:01,160
Speaker 1: time at best time ever, incredible, incredible time. Okay. Now,

1339
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:05,080
Speaker 1: another interesting thing in your career is you know Bob

1340
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,960
Speaker 1: Dylan had all the success and he had the Woodstock years.

1341
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:10,640
Speaker 1: Then he took a left turn with Self Portrait and

1342
01:23:10,680 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: then regained his form with New Morning, which was a

1343
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: great record. But you recorded Time Passes Slowly from that album,

1344
01:23:19,160 --> 01:23:22,880
Speaker 1: which I love, before that album came out. How did

1345
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 1: that come together? If you remember? I don't know. I

1346
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:35,280
Speaker 1: think maybe UM our mutual lawyer, uh, David Braun, who

1347
01:23:35,360 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 1: was my lawyer from the first Electra uh contract in

1348
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: David represented Dylan for a long long time. In fact,

1349
01:23:46,720 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 1: when when David Braun went to UM Polygraph, David Brown

1350
01:23:51,400 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 1: represented everybody, represented Barbara streisand he represented Neil Diamond, he

1351
01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:01,280
Speaker 1: represented Bob Dylan, he represented me and but he got

1352
01:24:01,320 --> 01:24:05,639
Speaker 1: a job with Polygraph, being the president of polygraph, big mistake.

1353
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,839
Speaker 1: All the artists left him, but Dylan stayed, and I stayed.

1354
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,840
Speaker 1: And I think Neil over the year's state. I mean

1355
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 1: Neil was at his funeral. I think Neil stayed. But

1356
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:23,800
Speaker 1: David always had an end on what Dylan was recording,

1357
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,960
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that that's where it happened. I think

1358
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: I had a you know, elite costy. This may be

1359
01:24:32,040 --> 01:24:35,040
Speaker 1: a left turn, but what Dylan has been been as

1360
01:24:35,080 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 1: successful without Albert Grossman as his manager, I don't know.

1361
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 1: I loved Albert, and I think Albert was a brilliant man.

1362
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,759
Speaker 1: Is wasn't brilliant man. Unfortunately he's not with us anymore.

1363
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:50,639
Speaker 1: But Dylan, Dylan, He's NonStop. I think this this last

1364
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:56,480
Speaker 1: album is one of the best things they've ever done. Uh.

1365
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: The song about Kennedy's murder is really one of the

1366
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,000
Speaker 1: finest pieces of art that I've run into in a

1367
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 1: long time. That's pretty that's pretty damned impressive to come

1368
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 1: around that circle. I did an album of of Dylan

1369
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 1: songs and I listened to everything. This was in ninety two.

1370
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:22,040
Speaker 1: I listened to everything you ever made up to that point,

1371
01:25:23,320 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, in chronicles he writes about why

1372
01:25:29,080 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 1: he had those ten years of writing those incredible songs,

1373
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 1: and he doesn't know how it happened. He doesn't know

1374
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,920
Speaker 1: why it stopped. He doesn't know why it started. I

1375
01:25:38,040 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: have a clue though about it, and I'm not sure

1376
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 1: what he has said, probably said some things about it.

1377
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,080
Speaker 1: But when he got to New York and when he

1378
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,320
Speaker 1: changed his name to Dylan and he was still homeless,

1379
01:25:50,439 --> 01:25:53,639
Speaker 1: he spent a lot of time sleeping on people's couches.

1380
01:25:53,720 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 1: And I mean Dave En Ronks and and probably David

1381
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:02,599
Speaker 1: Blues and probably who knows, certainly Jack Ramlan, Jack Elliott.

1382
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:09,880
Speaker 1: So he was exposed to people's libraries in a way

1383
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:14,560
Speaker 1: that is not always possible if you're sleeping on somebody's

1384
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 1: couch and there bookcase. And it's interesting in times of zoom,

1385
01:26:19,040 --> 01:26:25,600
Speaker 1: you look at people's bookcases behind there, their pictures, newscasters,

1386
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,240
Speaker 1: people who are coming in with opinions, and they often

1387
01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 1: have book book libraries behind them, and you always peer

1388
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:34,960
Speaker 1: around and look, you know, what's That's why I don't

1389
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:39,599
Speaker 1: do that here. But I think he read a lot.

1390
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,080
Speaker 1: I think he I think he was exposed to things

1391
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:46,200
Speaker 1: he hadn't seen, and things ideas he hadn't heard, and

1392
01:26:46,280 --> 01:26:50,960
Speaker 1: I think something wild and wonderful got stirred up that

1393
01:26:51,160 --> 01:26:55,439
Speaker 1: hadn't been stirred up. And I'm not saying that there

1394
01:26:55,520 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 1: was anything less about being homeless in Colorado and sleeping

1395
01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:05,320
Speaker 1: on the bed of one of our folk music lights

1396
01:27:05,360 --> 01:27:08,439
Speaker 1: in those days, but I think it was different. I

1397
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 1: think it jogged him. And do you you mentioned you

1398
01:27:13,880 --> 01:27:17,919
Speaker 1: stayed in touch with Steven Stills, those people who haven't passed.

1399
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:20,920
Speaker 1: Do you stay in touch with the writers of the

1400
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:22,920
Speaker 1: songs you've done or that was a moment more of

1401
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: a momentary thing. Oh. I've always had relationships with most

1402
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:30,599
Speaker 1: of the people that I've that I've who's material i've

1403
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 1: I've I've worked on if they're on, if they're living, uh,

1404
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:41,559
Speaker 1: And I've had I had a wonderful relationship with with Leonard.

1405
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:44,479
Speaker 1: I mean it was he was so generous and he

1406
01:27:44,600 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 1: was so kind, and you know, he'd calling read me

1407
01:27:48,640 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 1: fifty verses of a song before he'd settled on the

1408
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:57,640
Speaker 1: ones that he liked. I I'm a great fan of

1409
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 1: of Jimmy Webb, for instance, who's a good friend and

1410
01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 1: just an amazing writer. I have such respect for him,

1411
01:28:04,240 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 1: and I'm always so moved by his writing. It's tremendous

1412
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 1: and most of the singer songwriters that I've known, I

1413
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:16,679
Speaker 1: certainly knew Joni in the early years much better than

1414
01:28:16,720 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 1: I do today, but I knew her well and uh

1415
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:25,080
Speaker 1: and people like Farina was a great friend of mine.

1416
01:28:25,520 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 1: I just was devastated by his death. And you know,

1417
01:28:29,960 --> 01:28:31,960
Speaker 1: it's kind of it's dangerous to get too close to

1418
01:28:32,000 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 1: people because they do leave the planet. Going back to

1419
01:28:35,600 --> 01:28:39,479
Speaker 1: the early days, did you feel in competition with Joan Baias,

1420
01:28:40,160 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 1: Oh God, No, I was very friendly with the whole family.

1421
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:46,160
Speaker 1: You know. Mimi was a good friend her mother. I

1422
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:49,720
Speaker 1: have more I often choked joked to her about this.

1423
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:53,120
Speaker 1: I have more letters from her mother, from big Joan

1424
01:28:53,600 --> 01:28:57,240
Speaker 1: fan letters, and I do from her although she's wonderful.

1425
01:28:57,520 --> 01:29:02,759
Speaker 1: She came. I sang at her seventy fifth at the Beacon,

1426
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 1: and then she came to my eighties birthday party a

1427
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:07,719
Speaker 1: couple of years ago. We had a great time, great

1428
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:11,840
Speaker 1: time together. No, we love each other. We laugh. Mimi

1429
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: was the laugher Memi was hysterical, and she and Dick

1430
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:19,640
Speaker 1: were good friends of mine, very good friends. Well. I

1431
01:29:19,720 --> 01:29:21,640
Speaker 1: loved the book that down so long it looks like

1432
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,920
Speaker 1: up to me, he really made a huge impact upon me.

1433
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:28,320
Speaker 1: You're so forthcoming and so many aspects of your life

1434
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,839
Speaker 1: that therefore you talked about Steve and you talked about alcoholism.

1435
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 1: That a touchy subject for me, but maybe he is

1436
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 1: not for you. You know, your son took his own life.

1437
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 1: You also say that he said he had alcohol issues

1438
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: and depression issues. You've also gone on record that you've

1439
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:51,639
Speaker 1: had depression issues. Can you talk a little bit about that. Well,

1440
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:55,800
Speaker 1: this gene that was in both of our families. My

1441
01:29:55,880 --> 01:29:59,760
Speaker 1: father was an alcoholic, of course, and his his background,

1442
01:30:00,439 --> 01:30:04,759
Speaker 1: his his own father's father took his life. I don't

1443
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:07,479
Speaker 1: say that because I think that that means that if

1444
01:30:07,479 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 1: it's in the family, then you you'll get it. It's

1445
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: not that, but the gene for addiction is certainly in

1446
01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 1: the d n A, and we do get it at birth,

1447
01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:22,840
Speaker 1: and if we have any luck, it gets into our

1448
01:30:22,880 --> 01:30:27,719
Speaker 1: behavior or our behavior brings it into fruition. Perhaps. But Clark,

1449
01:30:28,040 --> 01:30:31,599
Speaker 1: when when he when he would turned ten eleven years old,

1450
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:33,760
Speaker 1: I knew there was something off. He was a d

1451
01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:37,400
Speaker 1: d H D or he was um. They used to

1452
01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:41,439
Speaker 1: have different words for it. Uh. Anyway, he was antagonized.

1453
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 1: He was, he was short tempered, he was, but he

1454
01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:49,919
Speaker 1: was brilliant and his his focus. He was a wonderful musician.

1455
01:30:50,880 --> 01:30:54,040
Speaker 1: And he would have a short focus at times. But

1456
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 1: I knew he was. I knew in those days in seventies,

1457
01:30:57,560 --> 01:31:00,439
Speaker 1: seventy one seventy two, when he first got to New York,

1458
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:06,439
Speaker 1: when he first was exhibiting the tendencies that I now

1459
01:31:06,479 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 1: associated with alcoholism and getting into trouble, and the schools

1460
01:31:14,320 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 1: that followed, you know, places like windsor Mountain up in Lennox,

1461
01:31:19,160 --> 01:31:22,240
Speaker 1: where the headmaster would say, oh, you know, we really

1462
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,719
Speaker 1: we really focused on the drug issues and the substance issues.

1463
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:28,799
Speaker 1: And then two weeks later he'd be in the hospital

1464
01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:33,600
Speaker 1: with an overdose. So I mean it was classic alcoholism.

1465
01:31:33,680 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: And had it happened in a later time, most people

1466
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: would be saying, and doctors included, you know, this kid

1467
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 1: needs to be in rehab. And I was not sober yet,

1468
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:48,080
Speaker 1: I still had some years to go. So he was

1469
01:31:48,280 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 1: nineteen when I got sober, and he had actually cleaned

1470
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,679
Speaker 1: his life up and and gone. He and his girlfriend

1471
01:31:55,720 --> 01:31:59,599
Speaker 1: both had had gotten clean, and they were both both

1472
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:02,280
Speaker 1: at Colombia, and they decided to move up to Ristie

1473
01:32:02,320 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 1: and they were at school up there, and he was

1474
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 1: in very good shape. And then he came back to

1475
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:12,400
Speaker 1: New York and he sort of fell apart. And I

1476
01:32:12,479 --> 01:32:17,120
Speaker 1: went into treatment in seventy eight and he was in

1477
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:21,719
Speaker 1: bad trouble. So it was six years before he came

1478
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:28,040
Speaker 1: and said to me, I okay, I give up or

1479
01:32:28,120 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 1: I surrender and win, which is actually the way we

1480
01:32:31,200 --> 01:32:33,760
Speaker 1: look at it. And he went into treatment in in

1481
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 1: at Hazelden and he was sober for seven years. What

1482
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:39,360
Speaker 1: a life, you know. He had a little girl, He

1483
01:32:39,400 --> 01:32:43,640
Speaker 1: had a wife who is now my my daughter in

1484
01:32:43,720 --> 01:32:46,800
Speaker 1: law still, who's a widow, but she's still my daughter

1485
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:49,240
Speaker 1: in law, and the mother of my granddaughter who is

1486
01:32:49,280 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 1: now in her forties. No whore now in her thirties.

1487
01:32:52,320 --> 01:33:00,240
Speaker 1: Forgive me, Hollis. And so his his his suicide just

1488
01:33:01,560 --> 01:33:04,920
Speaker 1: about destroyed me. And when I say that, because I'm

1489
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:10,160
Speaker 1: giving you the background, because it shouldn't really have almost

1490
01:33:10,240 --> 01:33:15,040
Speaker 1: destroyed me, because suicide if you're an alcoholic and you're active.

1491
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 1: But he wasn't active. He was sober, and he relapsed

1492
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: and he called me, he said, you know, I'm I'm

1493
01:33:22,080 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 1: having trouble. I said, I know, and he went into

1494
01:33:24,520 --> 01:33:31,440
Speaker 1: another couple of rounds of of going to their retreat

1495
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 1: up there at Hazelton. But they said it they let him.

1496
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:37,639
Speaker 1: I say, they let him loose. But he was an adult,

1497
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 1: he was thirty three years old, so mom really couldn't

1498
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: ride in on a white horse and fix it. And

1499
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:49,600
Speaker 1: he drank, and in the conclusion of his life, he

1500
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:55,320
Speaker 1: did the same thing as grandfather on his father's side,

1501
01:33:55,320 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 1: that he went into a car and turned on the engine.

1502
01:33:59,400 --> 01:34:03,320
Speaker 1: And you know, Joan Rivers called me about four days

1503
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:07,000
Speaker 1: after Clark's death and she said, I know what you

1504
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:09,559
Speaker 1: want to do. You want to close your life down.

1505
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 1: I had started to cancel concerts and she said, you

1506
01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:16,800
Speaker 1: can't do that because if you do that, you're not

1507
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,479
Speaker 1: going to heal. And as you know, she had lost

1508
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:22,599
Speaker 1: her husband to suicide a few a couple of years before,

1509
01:34:24,040 --> 01:34:29,280
Speaker 1: and she said, there are no guilts in suicide, which

1510
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 1: I knew on an intellectual basis, but you have to

1511
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 1: talk to other people about it, which I did and

1512
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 1: I got some important, important help from a lot of people.

1513
01:34:40,240 --> 01:34:43,800
Speaker 1: And I decided to write a book about suicide, which

1514
01:34:43,840 --> 01:34:51,200
Speaker 1: I did. Uh what is it called? I don't remember

1515
01:34:52,960 --> 01:34:55,960
Speaker 1: gratitude and grace, I think. But I wanted to get

1516
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:58,680
Speaker 1: down everything that I knew about suicide. Having been an

1517
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:01,800
Speaker 1: attempter at the age of fourteen, I tried to do

1518
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: myself in It was all those pills and and I

1519
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:10,640
Speaker 1: was very determined. And I don't I still don't know,

1520
01:35:11,160 --> 01:35:13,880
Speaker 1: except that they made me sick at my stomach and

1521
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:17,840
Speaker 1: that I was not going to I was perfectly happy dying.

1522
01:35:17,880 --> 01:35:22,479
Speaker 1: I was not happy being sick of my stomach. Um,

1523
01:35:22,680 --> 01:35:27,479
Speaker 1: So I think what we need to do. When Clark died,

1524
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: there were only two books that really were positive. There

1525
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:34,240
Speaker 1: were no books that were positive except one. The other

1526
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:39,840
Speaker 1: one was called The Savage God, which I would never read.

1527
01:35:39,960 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 1: I never would have read it until this happened. And

1528
01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:46,960
Speaker 1: of course it's all about silly plast's suicide and it

1529
01:35:47,000 --> 01:35:53,640
Speaker 1: has not one ounce of solution in it. And the

1530
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 1: other book was by Irish Bolton, who whose book is

1531
01:35:56,920 --> 01:35:59,559
Speaker 1: full of solutions, and it's a marvelous book and it

1532
01:35:59,640 --> 01:36:02,040
Speaker 1: was very healing. And then I read everything I could

1533
01:36:02,040 --> 01:36:05,040
Speaker 1: get ever that it's ever been written. I think about suicide,

1534
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,280
Speaker 1: and A wrote about it because I needed to get

1535
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 1: it out of my system. And I think that's really

1536
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 1: the secret to this, you know, suicide. I often say

1537
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 1: that suicide is fascinating if it's not happening to you.

1538
01:36:19,920 --> 01:36:23,720
Speaker 1: But on the on the positive side, you go you

1539
01:36:23,880 --> 01:36:27,360
Speaker 1: cannot go over it. You have to go through it.

1540
01:36:27,439 --> 01:36:30,080
Speaker 1: So you have to go through the feelings, you have

1541
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:34,240
Speaker 1: to go through the experiences. It's it's a it's an

1542
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:43,320
Speaker 1: opportunity to completely overhaul your ideas about what's happened. And

1543
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:49,599
Speaker 1: you can't take it personally because it's not personal. It's

1544
01:36:50,120 --> 01:36:56,200
Speaker 1: a universal as as as um Cock. It's not Cocktau.

1545
01:36:56,560 --> 01:37:00,360
Speaker 1: It's another writer that starts with a sea who says

1546
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:05,640
Speaker 1: that it is a universal human conundrum because we can

1547
01:37:05,680 --> 01:37:08,920
Speaker 1: all get off the planet if we want to, and

1548
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:11,080
Speaker 1: so then the question is do we want to stay?

1549
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 1: And if you haven't had a suicidal thought in your life,

1550
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:21,040
Speaker 1: you're living on some other planet. I think. Well, put now,

1551
01:37:21,360 --> 01:37:24,719
Speaker 1: subsequent cleaning up with alcohol, do you still have issues

1552
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:31,200
Speaker 1: of depression? No? No, alcohol is a depressant. Funny, but

1553
01:37:31,320 --> 01:37:34,280
Speaker 1: that's the truth. Now, I know you were you a

1554
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:37,280
Speaker 1: drinker before you got to New York and got really

1555
01:37:37,320 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: heavily into the musical lifestyle. Oh yes, I always drank.

1556
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:43,679
Speaker 1: I drank from the age of fifteen, and I drank

1557
01:37:43,720 --> 01:37:46,960
Speaker 1: for twenty three years solid, you know I was. And

1558
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:51,400
Speaker 1: did you have other than personal bad experiences, meaning you know,

1559
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:53,200
Speaker 1: you woke up where you didn't know you were black

1560
01:37:53,280 --> 01:37:57,240
Speaker 1: out whatever. Did you ever have people who disconnected from you,

1561
01:37:57,280 --> 01:38:00,120
Speaker 1: were business opportunities that fell away because of your the

1562
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 1: whole use? Well, I don't know. I was very protected

1563
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. I had a very strong career,

1564
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:14,600
Speaker 1: I had strong management. I do think that I was distancing,

1565
01:38:16,680 --> 01:38:20,800
Speaker 1: but I don't think that that was no. I was

1566
01:38:20,840 --> 01:38:24,320
Speaker 1: just getting sicker and sicker and sicker and sicker. And

1567
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 1: it wasn't anybody else's problem but mine. The last year

1568
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:33,120
Speaker 1: of my drinking in seventy seven, I and someone said

1569
01:38:33,160 --> 01:38:39,480
Speaker 1: this to me recently. They the guy who wrote um

1570
01:38:39,640 --> 01:38:43,320
Speaker 1: Vincent what's his name? Don said to me, you know,

1571
01:38:43,360 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: I was in l A during those years. That year

1572
01:38:47,080 --> 01:38:50,080
Speaker 1: I saw a big poster that said that you had

1573
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 1: canceled concerts that year, and yeah, that's a career killer you.

1574
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:04,439
Speaker 1: You canceled forty five shows, so the industry, but it

1575
01:39:04,520 --> 01:39:07,559
Speaker 1: was me. I couldn't sing, and in a way that

1576
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:11,599
Speaker 1: was my That was a blessing that that was the problem,

1577
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 1: because if you can't sing, you can't show up. So

1578
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: it's not your alcoholism that's in the way. It's the

1579
01:39:16,720 --> 01:39:20,080
Speaker 1: fact that you can't think, so you have to cancel.

1580
01:39:20,560 --> 01:39:23,559
Speaker 1: And people understand that in the music business, they don't

1581
01:39:24,160 --> 01:39:27,799
Speaker 1: get terribly upset. If it doesn't go on for years,

1582
01:39:28,320 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 1: they don't get upset. If if it had, they do

1583
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:34,000
Speaker 1: get upset. But if it happens for one season or

1584
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 1: two seasons, it's a whole summer, it's a whole spring.

1585
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:42,400
Speaker 1: It's that's not unusual. So thank god that was the

1586
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:45,760
Speaker 1: end of that, because then everything was canceled. And then

1587
01:39:45,840 --> 01:39:47,760
Speaker 1: I went into treatment, and then I couldn't work, I

1588
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 1: couldn't sing, and but eventually, slowly, but surely, it all

1589
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 1: came back. Okay, So what was the final straw? Who

1590
01:39:54,320 --> 01:39:57,559
Speaker 1: or what got you to go to rehab? I went.

1591
01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:02,479
Speaker 1: I had what we call an s gamo I. There

1592
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:04,280
Speaker 1: was a guy in New York who was a very

1593
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:08,759
Speaker 1: big drinker. He's very famous actor, and he was always drinking.

1594
01:40:08,800 --> 01:40:12,280
Speaker 1: In His picture would be on the on the daily news,

1595
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: falling out of some bar somewhere with blood splashing all

1596
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,080
Speaker 1: over his face. He'd been in a big fight, and

1597
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:22,080
Speaker 1: that happened a lot, and I would sit and I

1598
01:40:22,120 --> 01:40:25,200
Speaker 1: didn't know him personally, but I thought, oh, that's it. He's,

1599
01:40:25,320 --> 01:40:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, somebody's carrying on the tradition here, somebody. And

1600
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:32,679
Speaker 1: I got to know his wife through an exercise class

1601
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 1: that I was in. I didn't know him personally, but

1602
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:41,920
Speaker 1: I knew her, and so one day I said to her, Um,

1603
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 1: what happened. I don't see him, he's not I don't

1604
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:48,519
Speaker 1: see these photographs in the time, in the news or

1605
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:52,559
Speaker 1: the post. What's going on? She said, well, he got sober,

1606
01:40:53,960 --> 01:40:59,040
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, dear God, that's terrible news. Some

1607
01:40:59,160 --> 01:41:03,559
Speaker 1: police give up the fight. And she said, would you

1608
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:06,360
Speaker 1: like to talk to him? I said yes, and he

1609
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:12,439
Speaker 1: drink again, and so I I was at the end

1610
01:41:12,439 --> 01:41:15,439
Speaker 1: of my rope, really, and so I already I was

1611
01:41:15,439 --> 01:41:17,640
Speaker 1: already trying to go to meetings, but I was too

1612
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 1: drunk to really do much about it. So I called him.

1613
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:24,000
Speaker 1: He was on he was on location somewhere in Arizona,

1614
01:41:24,360 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 1: and he called me back and we spent a couple

1615
01:41:27,200 --> 01:41:29,840
Speaker 1: hours on the phone, and he said, I should go

1616
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:34,040
Speaker 1: see this doctor, dr get Low, and I should go

1617
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:36,320
Speaker 1: to these places, these meetings, and so on, and so

1618
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:39,160
Speaker 1: I went to get low and that's how it happened.

1619
01:41:39,200 --> 01:41:42,320
Speaker 1: He I sat there and told him my sob story

1620
01:41:42,600 --> 01:41:47,880
Speaker 1: and uh he said. He was laughing, and he said, well,

1621
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:51,240
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with you

1622
01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:55,080
Speaker 1: except you're an alcoholic and there is a solution to this,

1623
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,880
Speaker 1: and I will help you. And so he got me.

1624
01:41:59,720 --> 01:42:02,040
Speaker 1: He want me to call this place where I went

1625
01:42:02,080 --> 01:42:05,680
Speaker 1: for treatment at chit Chat. It's called it's called the

1626
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:08,920
Speaker 1: Care and Foundation now and it focuses well, people go

1627
01:42:09,040 --> 01:42:11,559
Speaker 1: there and get sober, but it also focuses on the

1628
01:42:11,560 --> 01:42:15,200
Speaker 1: family because it is a family illness, and if you're

1629
01:42:15,200 --> 01:42:18,120
Speaker 1: in a family with alcoholism, you have it, whether you

1630
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:22,560
Speaker 1: drink or not. It's about the isms, it's about powerlessness.

1631
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:26,120
Speaker 1: It's about about trying to tell somebody else what to

1632
01:42:26,160 --> 01:42:29,160
Speaker 1: do and getting nowhere, because you can't get anywhere with

1633
01:42:29,479 --> 01:42:34,400
Speaker 1: somebody who's using. You can't keep saying you, look at you,

1634
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:36,320
Speaker 1: you'd be so much better if you didn't do X,

1635
01:42:36,479 --> 01:42:39,639
Speaker 1: Y and Z. You just can't do it. It's also

1636
01:42:39,680 --> 01:42:43,479
Speaker 1: a self diagnosed disease, and that's the difference. That's why

1637
01:42:43,760 --> 01:42:45,760
Speaker 1: the a m A has such a hard time with it.

1638
01:42:47,200 --> 01:42:51,599
Speaker 1: And of course, I'm very Doctors know a lot about

1639
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:58,479
Speaker 1: building bridges and bone cures. I mean not the not

1640
01:42:58,600 --> 01:43:02,920
Speaker 1: the one that takes bis phosphonates, but putting them back together.

1641
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:05,280
Speaker 1: They know a lot about that. They don't don't know

1642
01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:10,200
Speaker 1: squat about most emotional things. And one of the first

1643
01:43:10,200 --> 01:43:13,120
Speaker 1: things they don't know is that alcohol is a depressant,

1644
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,000
Speaker 1: and that many of these medications that they hand around

1645
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:22,879
Speaker 1: so freely, the uh, you know, the pills for sleeping.

1646
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,160
Speaker 1: I had a lot of those, the pills for sleeping

1647
01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:28,680
Speaker 1: and the pills for feeling good, and they often have

1648
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,280
Speaker 1: different reactions to different people that are not good at

1649
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:35,280
Speaker 1: that are not healthy, that are not up there with

1650
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 1: clean and sober living. So how do you stay sober

1651
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:43,840
Speaker 1: day to time? You just do it one day at

1652
01:43:43,880 --> 01:43:45,519
Speaker 1: a time, and you go to meetings every day and

1653
01:43:45,600 --> 01:43:50,519
Speaker 1: you have a miracle happen, and it's happening all around us,

1654
01:43:50,880 --> 01:43:57,040
Speaker 1: all around us. Okay, what are your two favorite songs

1655
01:43:57,160 --> 01:44:01,639
Speaker 1: to sing? My favorite song of all is the most

1656
01:44:01,680 --> 01:44:05,120
Speaker 1: recent one that I've written, and a Jimmy Web song

1657
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 1: called the Highwayman. Okay, And in the time you have

1658
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 1: left on the planet, anything specifically you want to do

1659
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:18,480
Speaker 1: whether it be career wise or just personal, go someplace

1660
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:21,960
Speaker 1: you know that you haven't been before. It looks like

1661
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to China, which I've never been

1662
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: to in all these years. And I want to go

1663
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:30,040
Speaker 1: back to Japan where I was with Mimi and Arlo

1664
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 1: and uh Bruce Langhorn in nineteen sixty six. And I

1665
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:37,880
Speaker 1: wanted to take a walk in the park today. Okay,

1666
01:44:38,000 --> 01:44:42,160
Speaker 1: And you mentioned you know finances, So how are your finances.

1667
01:44:42,280 --> 01:44:48,640
Speaker 1: They're fine, They're wonderful. Okay. So you are working primarily

1668
01:44:48,760 --> 01:44:51,400
Speaker 1: to work, You're not working for the money is always good,

1669
01:44:51,439 --> 01:44:54,920
Speaker 1: but it's not like you literally need the money to live. Well,

1670
01:44:54,960 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter. There's nothing embarrassing about working. I think

1671
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:02,000
Speaker 1: we're working for a living is one of the highest

1672
01:45:02,040 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: achievements one can have. I don't believe in retirement. I

1673
01:45:05,439 --> 01:45:08,600
Speaker 1: think it was invented after the Industrial Revolution so that

1674
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 1: the top end of the management could make it all

1675
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:15,800
Speaker 1: and send the rest of us home. So I don't

1676
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:18,639
Speaker 1: believe in it. And I don't think many artists stopped

1677
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:25,080
Speaker 1: working when they can continue doing their artistic adventures. And

1678
01:45:25,120 --> 01:45:28,080
Speaker 1: that's what I'm honest, an artistic adventure, which involves going

1679
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:32,599
Speaker 1: in front of audiences and recreating and creating what makes

1680
01:45:32,640 --> 01:45:35,200
Speaker 1: them happy. And I think being part of art is

1681
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:37,519
Speaker 1: part of what keeps the planet awake. I don't know

1682
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:41,000
Speaker 1: why anybody would stay on the planet without art and music.

1683
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:43,479
Speaker 1: I don't know why any of us would stick around.

1684
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:47,519
Speaker 1: You're speaking my language. I feel the same way. You know.

1685
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: It's all these people work at these jobs they hate

1686
01:45:50,040 --> 01:45:53,360
Speaker 1: so they can watch to go to the movies tonst

1687
01:45:54,240 --> 01:45:56,519
Speaker 1: without that. And you know that I don't want to

1688
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:59,680
Speaker 1: get on a soapbox myself. But the fact that we

1689
01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:02,080
Speaker 1: live a country where there's no money for the arch's

1690
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:05,600
Speaker 1: no music in the schools is you know, the priorities

1691
01:46:05,600 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 1: are not right. No, they're not right. And the teachers

1692
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:12,479
Speaker 1: don't get paid enough, and the the the workers in

1693
01:46:12,520 --> 01:46:16,320
Speaker 1: the hospitals don't get paid enough. Our educators don't get

1694
01:46:16,640 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 1: what they should have. And and we have all of

1695
01:46:20,320 --> 01:46:24,919
Speaker 1: this abundance, and we cannot take care of the homeless,

1696
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:28,840
Speaker 1: we cannot take care of our medical costs. We what

1697
01:46:29,040 --> 01:46:32,679
Speaker 1: is the matter with us? We need to have a rejuvenation. Well,

1698
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:35,680
Speaker 1: you know you're you're speaking my language. Unfortunately, I'm more

1699
01:46:35,720 --> 01:46:40,080
Speaker 1: of a glass half empty person than you, But I

1700
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:45,760
Speaker 1: am not optimistic about where we're going. I'm optimistic about today,

1701
01:46:45,840 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 1: and I'm optimistic about doing the things you know I had.

1702
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:54,360
Speaker 1: And I'm friendly with the Molly John Fast. I don't

1703
01:46:54,400 --> 01:46:57,040
Speaker 1: know if you know who she is, but she's she's

1704
01:46:57,120 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 1: she's my friend Erica's daughter, and I've known it for

1705
01:46:59,200 --> 01:47:02,400
Speaker 1: a long time and were talking the other day. I said,

1706
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:06,599
Speaker 1: what do you suggest? What are the two since all

1707
01:47:06,640 --> 01:47:08,800
Speaker 1: this trouble is going on, and since we've we're up

1708
01:47:08,840 --> 01:47:16,320
Speaker 1: against this incredible wall of greed, insanity, misbehavior. Uh, people

1709
01:47:16,360 --> 01:47:20,719
Speaker 1: who are living in some foul dream that they're trying

1710
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:24,799
Speaker 1: to shove on us. You know, they attack the capital

1711
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:27,519
Speaker 1: and call it tourism. What is the matter with us? What?

1712
01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:30,439
Speaker 1: What is? What do we do? Individually? She said, Well,

1713
01:47:30,439 --> 01:47:34,680
Speaker 1: the first is subscribe to a great newspaper. Well, you

1714
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:38,280
Speaker 1: and I probably do that, Bob, And three or four

1715
01:47:39,160 --> 01:47:43,080
Speaker 1: or more get get get a good newspaper into and

1716
01:47:43,120 --> 01:47:47,640
Speaker 1: also run for office. And so I am not going

1717
01:47:47,640 --> 01:47:52,360
Speaker 1: to run for office, but I'm gonna be as vocal

1718
01:47:52,400 --> 01:47:56,120
Speaker 1: as I can, which I've always been anyway, about what's

1719
01:47:56,240 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 1: going on, to take action. Get a goddamn facts scene,

1720
01:48:00,560 --> 01:48:03,840
Speaker 1: for instance, you know you're preaching to the converted. You know,

1721
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:07,519
Speaker 1: I subscribe to four newspapers. I know you know what

1722
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:10,360
Speaker 1: you're going But the frustration I have we grew up

1723
01:48:10,360 --> 01:48:14,200
Speaker 1: in a different era where there was a level of cohesiveness.

1724
01:48:14,240 --> 01:48:17,759
Speaker 1: Everyone tuned into one of the three networks for the news.

1725
01:48:18,040 --> 01:48:20,719
Speaker 1: If you're a news junkie, maybe get newspapers. In addition,

1726
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:25,880
Speaker 1: now you cannot penetrate the other side. You can write

1727
01:48:25,880 --> 01:48:28,640
Speaker 1: the truth all day long. So I was of the

1728
01:48:28,760 --> 01:48:34,240
Speaker 1: belief that once they got rid of abortion, America would revolt.

1729
01:48:34,720 --> 01:48:37,160
Speaker 1: Now the truth is in a number of Southern states

1730
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:41,040
Speaker 1: essentially there is no abortion. You know, there's one, you know,

1731
01:48:41,120 --> 01:48:45,360
Speaker 1: one clinic whatever. So the question becomes, what is the

1732
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:48,400
Speaker 1: spark we saw last year with Black Lives Matter? You

1733
01:48:48,439 --> 01:48:51,599
Speaker 1: could have a lot of free flowing feelings and emotion.

1734
01:48:51,680 --> 01:48:54,800
Speaker 1: One spark can set it off. And it's not like

1735
01:48:54,840 --> 01:48:57,200
Speaker 1: I want. You know, maybe I'm a child of the sixties,

1736
01:48:57,800 --> 01:49:00,920
Speaker 1: but we're going to need a revel luction if things

1737
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:04,680
Speaker 1: keep going in this way. And the question becomes, you know,

1738
01:49:04,880 --> 01:49:07,600
Speaker 1: will that it's so far it's just the minority on

1739
01:49:07,600 --> 01:49:14,040
Speaker 1: the other side rising up, Whereas listen, the vaccine thing

1740
01:49:14,800 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 1: is just insane. It's like I have I got the vaccine.

1741
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:21,479
Speaker 1: It didn't work for me because I have this take

1742
01:49:21,520 --> 01:49:25,080
Speaker 1: this medication. I'm still home waiting for the medication last

1743
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:28,200
Speaker 1: for two years, but six months intensely, and so it

1744
01:49:28,240 --> 01:49:30,080
Speaker 1: has to wear off so I can have B cells,

1745
01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:32,360
Speaker 1: so I can get the N bodies. But without being

1746
01:49:32,920 --> 01:49:37,080
Speaker 1: making it a personal thing that I'm still home. If

1747
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:41,080
Speaker 1: you follow this BuzzFeed and they reprinted it in the

1748
01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:46,080
Speaker 1: week and CNN people are dying, the delta variant spreads

1749
01:49:46,160 --> 01:49:50,320
Speaker 1: faster and your number could come up. And it always happens.

1750
01:49:50,320 --> 01:49:52,800
Speaker 1: Oh if I if he knew, we would get a vaccine,

1751
01:49:53,760 --> 01:50:00,080
Speaker 1: and you know, it's just it's just I don't understand it.

1752
01:50:00,080 --> 01:50:04,000
Speaker 1: It's not to be understood. It's not to be understood.

1753
01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 1: But we have to do our work. We have to

1754
01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:11,439
Speaker 1: believe in the present and take the actions that we can,

1755
01:50:12,200 --> 01:50:15,479
Speaker 1: and we have to let go the anger that comes

1756
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:19,080
Speaker 1: up when we want to smash the windows in and

1757
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:23,800
Speaker 1: trip up and poke into the spikes of the bikers

1758
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:25,840
Speaker 1: on the street that are gonna kill me because they

1759
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:29,760
Speaker 1: don't pay any attention to anything or anybody. I mean,

1760
01:50:29,840 --> 01:50:32,439
Speaker 1: let's start with that. You know, the person on the

1761
01:50:32,479 --> 01:50:39,080
Speaker 1: scooter last week. Absolutely, I think you know, uh, living

1762
01:50:39,080 --> 01:50:43,320
Speaker 1: in southern California where bird scooters started. On a raw

1763
01:50:43,680 --> 01:50:47,880
Speaker 1: physics level, it's got a very small wheel, so if

1764
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:51,759
Speaker 1: you hit anything, you're gonna fall and you're gonna get injured. Forget,

1765
01:50:52,479 --> 01:50:56,920
Speaker 1: forget somebody else. This is not a good situation for

1766
01:50:57,080 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 1: a society at large. It isn't. It isn't solutely because

1767
01:51:01,320 --> 01:51:03,559
Speaker 1: you can't see. You know. It was one thing to

1768
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:06,920
Speaker 1: go to London and have to look both ways. Right now,

1769
01:51:06,920 --> 01:51:09,360
Speaker 1: I'm in New York City enough I look up. I'm

1770
01:51:09,479 --> 01:51:14,080
Speaker 1: still in trouble. Listen. Everybody thinks they're in violent until

1771
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:16,559
Speaker 1: it happens to them. And that's another thing, you know,

1772
01:51:18,080 --> 01:51:20,120
Speaker 1: you know, Paul Krugen said, the difference between the right

1773
01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:22,320
Speaker 1: and the left is the left believes in a social

1774
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:29,720
Speaker 1: welfare and safety net, but bad things ultimately happen to everybody.

1775
01:51:29,880 --> 01:51:31,880
Speaker 1: You sit there and you say, well, that's not me.

1776
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:34,240
Speaker 1: You know, they're giving all those people that money, or

1777
01:51:34,240 --> 01:51:37,599
Speaker 1: they're doing this whatever. One day, it's gonna be you

1778
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,920
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be glad. It's like that building that

1779
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:46,439
Speaker 1: collapsed or Florida. Right there has to be something going on,

1780
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:49,519
Speaker 1: buildings just don't collapse. So we live in a country

1781
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:52,800
Speaker 1: where they keep saying we want less and less regulation. No,

1782
01:51:53,640 --> 01:51:58,160
Speaker 1: we want regulation. Generally speaking, the buildings don't fall in

1783
01:51:58,160 --> 01:52:02,840
Speaker 1: the United States because of regulation. Rex Chillerson, who worked

1784
01:52:02,920 --> 01:52:07,599
Speaker 1: for Trump and was the head of the big company.

1785
01:52:07,600 --> 01:52:10,360
Speaker 1: In one of the general waters, he said, it's so

1786
01:52:10,479 --> 01:52:13,519
Speaker 1: much easier to deal with foreign countries where there are

1787
01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:15,840
Speaker 1: dictators because they don't have any rules. You can get

1788
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:19,840
Speaker 1: a lot done. Well, you know, staying on the same point,

1789
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:24,520
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, I think authoritarianism will ultimately

1790
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:30,040
Speaker 1: triumph for one simple reason. It's easier. Yeah, they had

1791
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:32,160
Speaker 1: a story in the news last week than in China

1792
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:36,760
Speaker 1: they built a ten story building in a day. In

1793
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:40,920
Speaker 1: China they can get things done. We have complete gridlock.

1794
01:52:41,080 --> 01:52:43,479
Speaker 1: I mean. And you as a world traveler. Though they

1795
01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: keep saying America the greatest country in the world, I've

1796
01:52:45,800 --> 01:52:48,400
Speaker 1: bet a lot of places where it's really damn good.

1797
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:51,560
Speaker 1: Not that we don't have some great things in America,

1798
01:52:52,800 --> 01:52:55,320
Speaker 1: but never mind. Free education, that's a good thing. Okay.

1799
01:52:55,360 --> 01:52:57,320
Speaker 1: We could go on about this, and I would like to,

1800
01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:00,720
Speaker 1: but we're all at length. Judy, you're wonderful. I mean,

1801
01:53:00,760 --> 01:53:03,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's knowing you only from Afar. It's just

1802
01:53:03,240 --> 01:53:06,559
Speaker 1: fascinating to actually talk to you because my impression was

1803
01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:12,240
Speaker 1: a someone more stayed or not exactly snobbish, but more stayed.

1804
01:53:12,680 --> 01:53:15,560
Speaker 1: And then to talk to me, we could literally talk

1805
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:20,439
Speaker 1: all night. You're right, You're absolutely right. Well, I love

1806
01:53:20,479 --> 01:53:25,960
Speaker 1: it that you're you're on your your proper paths doing

1807
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:29,240
Speaker 1: what you do because we need you. And it's a

1808
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:31,880
Speaker 1: light that comes out of this kind of work that

1809
01:53:31,920 --> 01:53:35,479
Speaker 1: you do that helps everybody get through the rest. Don't

1810
01:53:35,479 --> 01:53:38,200
Speaker 1: forget that. Well, listen, you help me out in the

1811
01:53:38,280 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 1: nature of being a writer, especially because I'm home, you're

1812
01:53:40,920 --> 01:53:43,760
Speaker 1: alone a lot, and sometimes you write something or you

1813
01:53:43,840 --> 01:53:47,000
Speaker 1: do something and people are talking about it externally, but

1814
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:50,120
Speaker 1: you're in the eye of the hurricane, so you're unaware.

1815
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:52,280
Speaker 1: So when you tell me that, and there are other

1816
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 1: things you said through the podcast that really resonated certainly

1817
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:59,400
Speaker 1: relative to continuing to do the work. So you're open

1818
01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,960
Speaker 1: when the inspiration. Absolutely, when the inspiration comes, you know

1819
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:07,479
Speaker 1: you have the tool you'll be able to execute. Will

1820
01:54:07,520 --> 01:54:09,639
Speaker 1: I be able to write this? What's the first word?

1821
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:15,519
Speaker 1: It's just flows right out. Absolutely, Thank you. It's been great.

1822
01:54:16,120 --> 01:54:19,360
Speaker 1: Till next time, My dear, have a beautiful I have

1823
01:54:19,400 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 1: a friend to says, you know, have a beautiful day.

1824
01:54:21,479 --> 01:54:28,600
Speaker 1: Unless you had other plans. Well, hopefully it'll be beautiful. Yeah. Good, Okay,

1825
01:54:28,720 --> 01:54:30,920
Speaker 1: Well you've got three hours more than I do in

1826
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:34,800
Speaker 1: your life today. Absolutely well, i'b surely you've had the

1827
01:54:34,840 --> 01:54:38,640
Speaker 1: experience of you know, flying over the International dateline. You

1828
01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:43,160
Speaker 1: lose two days going that way and you left. Oh yeah,

1829
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:47,720
Speaker 1: that's right, and I'll have that again soon. I'm sure.

1830
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:51,280
Speaker 1: I can't wait. That's what everybody's talking about. I get

1831
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:53,320
Speaker 1: from people here, from people over the world. I can't

1832
01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:57,360
Speaker 1: wait to get on a plane to Pace with good thought.

1833
01:54:57,880 --> 01:55:02,000
Speaker 1: It's a good thought, all right, thanks again, until next time.

1834
01:55:02,160 --> 01:55:20,160
Speaker 1: This is Bob left Sex m