1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie. Listener discretion advised. It's the 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: beginning of sixteen nineteen and a woman named Philippa Flowers 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: is being interrogated on suspicion of witchcraft. Her mother and 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: sister have also been accused. Although her mother was already dead, 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: she died after being arrested on the way to the trial. 7 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: Philippa herself had not yet confessed, but her little sister 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: had begun talking. Grueling conditions and prolonged interrogations would win out. Eventually, 9 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 1: things were not going to turn out well for Philippa, 10 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: and she knew it. The interrogators continued berating her. Confess, 11 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: they said, for using your witchcraft to bring about the 12 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: demise of the Earl of Rutland. Confess for using your 13 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 1: magic to bring about the death of his two young 14 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 1: male heirs, bringing misery to the Earl's home beaver Castle. 15 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: If convicted, the consequences for Philippa for killing two young 16 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: royal boys would surely be death. But there was only 17 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: so long that Philippa would be able to hold out 18 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: without a confession. When the accusation is witchcraft. It's hard 19 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: to imagine you're making it out alive. I'm Danish Schwartz 20 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: and this is noble blood. If you're ever in Leicestershire, England, 21 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: you might find yourself gazing up at a magnificent castle 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 1: perched atop a hill, commanding views of the surrounding countryside. 23 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: The locals call it Beaver Castle, though its actual name 24 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: is Belvoir spelled b e lvoi R. But yes, it's 25 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: pronounces beaver. The name comes from the French belvoir, meaning 26 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: beautiful view. But when the French speaking Normans brought that 27 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: name over in the eleventh century, the Middle English speaking 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: Anglo Saxons couldn't wrap their tongues around it. Beaver became 29 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: well Beaver, and it remains that way to this day. 30 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: The castle that you'd see today is not the original structure. 31 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:33,160 Speaker 1: The original structure was built just after the Norman conquest 32 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: of ten sixty six. It has since been rebuilt at 33 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: least three times. These days, you can tour the grounds, 34 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: attend events. It's all very civilized, but this welcoming facade 35 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: masks a darker history. Four centuries ago, this picturesque setting 36 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: was the backdrop for a tale of suspicion, fear, and 37 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: deadly accusations. Our story takes place in the early seventeenth 38 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: century version of Beaver, which was the home of Francis Manners, 39 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: the sixth Earl of Rutland. Francis and his first wife 40 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: had a daughter named Catherine. Then his second wife, Cecilia, 41 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: gave him two sons, Henry and Francis. Manners inherited his 42 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: title in June sixteen twelve after the death of his 43 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: brother Roger. Almost immediately after Francis became Earl, he was 44 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 1: made Lord Lieutenant of Lincolnshire, and more importantly, he caught 45 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: the attention of King James, the first we've encountered King 46 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: James before on this podcast. As we discussed in our 47 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: episode titled The witch Hunter, King James had a traumatic 48 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: childhood that left him paranoid and obsessed with the super natural. 49 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: He wrote a treatise on witchcraft called the Demonology, something 50 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: no monarch had done before or since. Though not particularly original, 51 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 1: the royal authorship of that treatise made it tremendously influential 52 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,479 Speaker 1: when it came to witch hunting. James wasn't just a believer. 53 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: He was the authority what makes James's relationship with the 54 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: Manners family intriguing is that Francis and his wife Cecilia 55 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: were Catholic. Normally, this would have been a problem for 56 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 1: the extremely Protestant King James. Perhaps you've heard of his 57 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:47,280 Speaker 1: namesake Bible, but King James's willingness to overlook the Manners' 58 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: family's religious leanings shows just how much he liked them. 59 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: The couple transformed beaver Castle into what they termed a 60 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 1: quote palace of entertainment, partly for their own pleasure, but 61 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: also to curry favor with the King. The King clearly 62 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 1: appreciated the manor's family's hospitality. He returned five more times 63 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: after his first visit to beaver Castle. Running a party 64 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: palace required a fleet of workers, most of which were 65 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 1: sourced from nearby villages. Like most villages during this era, 66 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: the village of Botsford was tightly interconnected. Neighbors relied on 67 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: each other daily, sharing work, information, and resources. Social harmony 68 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: was prized above all, and standing out was rarely advantageous. 69 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 1: Among Botsford's residents were Joan Flowers and her two daughters, 70 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 1: Philippa and Margaret. Unfortunately, for the Flowers women, blending in 71 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: was never really an option for them. The Flowers family 72 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: had struggled ever since the death of Joan's husband. In 73 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: those days, widows were sometimes regarded with suspicion. Society expected 74 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: women to remain under male authority, whether that authority be fathers, husbands, 75 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: or sons. The idea that a woman might prefer independence 76 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:26,720 Speaker 1: to remarriage was often inconceivable. Those who lived without male 77 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: oversight were often viewed with distrust. Joan had a reputation 78 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: throughout Botsford as a disagreeable woman who avoided church, which 79 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: was seen as a serious red flag in such a 80 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: deeply religious age. Her daughters fared no better. Both were 81 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: viciously regarded as women of quote loose morals. The Flowers 82 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: home was rumored to be little better than a brothel, 83 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: with Philippa in particular having a reputation for being out 84 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: at night in those unpaid streets. The Flowers matriarch had 85 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: a reputation also for being a healer, for using her 86 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: knowledge of herbal remedies and natural cures to treat various ailments. 87 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: These quote cunning folk were seen as something of a 88 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: necessary evil in seventeenth century life, while their healing skills 89 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: were valued and relied on. They were also feared for 90 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: the potential that they might use their power for evil 91 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: rather than for good. Despite their questionable reputation, the Flowers 92 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: women became employees of the Earl and Countess of Rutland, 93 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: possibly hired to help prepare for King James's visit in 94 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: sixteen twelve. The trio of Flowers women must have impressed 95 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: their employees because they remained on staff long after the 96 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: King's visit. Margaret, in particular, the younger daughter, gained favor, 97 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: working both in the launch and looking after poultry. She 98 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: was even invited to live in the servants quarters at 99 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: the castle. This good fortune stirred jealousy among the Flowers's 100 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: neighbors and stirred resentment among the other Beaver servants. Positions 101 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: in noble households often passed through generations of the same family. 102 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: For a while, the Flowers women seemed secure in their positions, 103 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: protected by the Earl and the Countess's favor, but tensions 104 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: were building. Around early sixteen thirteen, Beaver's servants formally complained 105 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,839 Speaker 1: about the Flowers women to Cecilia, who managed the household. 106 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: They accused Margaret of stealing provisions from the castle and 107 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 1: taking them back to her mother's house, where they entertained 108 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: questionable visitors. Reports claimed that quote people of ill repute 109 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:03,559 Speaker 1: visited Philippa at all. Even Joan was said to have 110 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 1: as many lovers as her daughters. According to contemporary accounts, Cecilia, 111 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: the Countess, discovered inappropriate behavior by Margaret, along with neglect 112 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: of her duties. That was enough to dismiss her, and 113 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: Margaret left Beaver with orders never to return, despite the 114 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: fact that they allegedly received reasonable compensation. When the Flower's 115 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: family was dismissed, humor spread that Joan had muttered ill 116 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: wishes against the Earl's family. If the Flowers women had 117 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: indeed voiced displeasure towards the Earl and his family, they 118 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: would come to regret it. Witchcraft accusations typically involved alleged 119 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: curses against community members who later suffered misfortune. Add that 120 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: to an already problematic reputation, and Joan and her daughters 121 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: would turn out to be catnip where the witch obsessed 122 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: community already hell bent on putting loud, disagreeable women in 123 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 1: their place. The witch hunts that swept across Europe from 124 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: the mid fifteenth to mid eighteenth century claimed tens of 125 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: thousands of lives, and the overwhelming majority of those victims 126 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 1: were women. While the events that would happen at beaver 127 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: weren't unusual for their time, what makes this case so 128 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 1: remarkable is the high ranking family involved and just how 129 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: clearly it serves as an example of social dynamics in 130 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: seventeenth century England. Shortly after Margaret was dismissed from beaver Castle, 131 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: disaster struck the Manner's household. In the summer of sixteen thirteen, 132 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: their eldest son, Henry, began suffering from a mysterious illness. 133 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: His symptoms included violent convulsions and extreme discomfort that persisted 134 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: for weeks. Despite all efforts to save him, Henry never recovered. 135 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: He died in September and was laid to rest at 136 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: Botsford Church. Looking back at the descriptions of Henry's symptoms, 137 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: which included vomiting and convulsions, modern observers might recognize signs 138 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: of any number of treatable conditions, anything from epilepsy to poisoning. 139 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: But in an era when medical knowledge was limited, when 140 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: a previously healthy child was struck down, especially after someone 141 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: allegedly expressed ill will toward the family, Supernatural causes often 142 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: seemed like the most plausible explanation. Henry's death plunged his parents, 143 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: Francis and Cecilia, into a pit of grief and anxiety. 144 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: Their family's future now depended entirely on their younger son, 145 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 1: who was named Francis like his father. To their horror, 146 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: not long after Henry's death, young Francis developed identical symptoms. 147 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: Their daughter Catherine also fell gravely ill with similar afflictions. 148 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:25,599 Speaker 1: To complete the misfortune, both the Earl and Countess themselves 149 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: became sick with these unusual convulsions. While deeply frightening, such 150 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: clusters of illness weren't unprecedented. Disease routinely devastated families across 151 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: all social classes, and young children were especially vulnerable. Nevertheless, 152 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: the servants at Beaver Castle quickly blamed Joan Flowers and 153 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: her daughters. Initially, the Earl and Countess dismissed these accusations. 154 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: Their initial loyalty to the Flowers women is somewhat surprising, 155 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: especially considering Joan had allegedly openly expressed anger about her 156 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: daughter's dismissal from the castle. Joan's outspoken resentment against a 157 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: powerful family was incredibly dangerous, since most witchcraft cases hinged 158 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: on prior hostilities. In order to secure conviction, Joan had 159 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: unknowingly given her enemies the perfect ammunition. While contemporary accounts 160 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: suggests that young Francis was suddenly and inexplicably struck by 161 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: an unexplained sickness, historical records actually indicate his health had 162 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: always been delicate, but now as the family's only hope, 163 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: everything possible needed to be done to restore the quote 164 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: spare air to health. Distinguished physicians were summoned to Beaver, 165 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 1: including the renowned quote astrological physics doctor Richard Napier. Yet, 166 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: despite the best medical care available, Young Francis continued to deteriorate. 167 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: This failure of conventional medicine may have finally convinced the 168 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: Earl and Countess to consider the whispers that had been 169 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: circulating since Henry's death. Gradually, the Earl and Countess I 170 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: began to suspect witchcraft, widespread belief that if a victim 171 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 1: couldn't be quote unwitched through countermagic, the only remaining options 172 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: were forcing the suspected witch to confess or executing them, 173 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: which in effect would be turning off the tap to 174 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: the evil. Five years after Henry's death, with young Francis 175 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,479 Speaker 1: still suffering and showing no signs of recovery, formal accusations 176 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: of witchcraft were finally lodged against Joan Flowers and her daughters. 177 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: This happened in late sixteen eighteen while the Earl was away, 178 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: which suggests that Countess Cecilia herself may have been the 179 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: one who initiated the proceedings. The noble classes typically gave 180 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: less credence to theories of witchcraft than the general public, 181 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: but when they did take an interest, people listened, so 182 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: when the upper classes got involved, it acted as a 183 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: force multiplier for witch mania. The case against the Flowers 184 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: women generated significant public interest, After all, most witchcraft trials 185 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: involved obscure villagers and petty disputes, not a prestigious family 186 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: like the Manners. The Flowers women were arrested shortly before 187 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: Christmas sixteen eighteen. After preliminary questioning, the three women were 188 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: scheduled for transport to the judicial court at nearby Lincoln Castle. 189 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: Given the notoriously biased procedures of witch trials, this journey 190 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: must have filled the three Flowers women with dread. However, 191 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: only two of the women would complete the journey. Worn 192 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: down by her treatment and no doubt, terrified at what 193 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: awaited her, Joan Flowers took a desperate measure. While the 194 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: party was en route to Lincoln, she demanded a traditional 195 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: test to prove her innocence. According to observers, Joan asked 196 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: for bread that had been blessed by a priest, declaring 197 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: that if she were guilty, she would be unable to 198 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: swallow it. According to sources, upon receiving the bread, Joan 199 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: attempted to eat it, but immediately began choking. Witnesses reported 200 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: that she collapsed and died in apparent agony before speaking 201 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: another word. Her stunned captors interpreted this as divine confirmation 202 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: of her guilt, and if that story's true, you can't 203 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: really blame them. There's no definitive explanation for this dramatic 204 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: incident if it indeed happened that way, perhaps the psychological 205 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: pressure of believing in the test's power triggered a panic 206 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 1: response or a heart attack in an already stressful situation. 207 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: But whatever the true story, jones sudden and very incriminating 208 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: death spared authorities the expense of a formal trial. She 209 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:47,359 Speaker 1: was hastily buried in Ancaster, while her daughters continued on 210 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,919 Speaker 1: to Lincoln. The city had a long history as a 211 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: place of imprisonment and execution. Lincoln Castle, originally built by 212 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: William the Conqueror, had housed shorts and prisons since Tudor times, 213 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: with public executions regularly being performed there. Given their notoriety, 214 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: the sisters were probably confined to a dungeon, which later 215 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: became known as the quote witch hole. It was about 216 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: as comfortable as you'd imagine a place called the witch 217 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 1: hole to be. Their interrogation began on January twenty second, 218 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: sixteen nineteen, continuing for nearly five weeks. The sisters were 219 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: questioned separately, but similarities in their eventual confessions suggest their 220 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: interrogators used information from one to pressure the other. The 221 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: examiners particularly wanted to establish that the sisters had formed 222 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: demonic pacts, which would guarantee execution under the sixteen oh 223 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: four law that had been passed by James the First. Initially, 224 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: both women resisted. Margaret, questioned first, admitted only to helping 225 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: her mother bewitch Henry Manners. She described how Joan had 226 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: instructed her to steal one of Henry's gloves. When Margaret 227 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: asked why, Joan allegedly replied that it was to harm him. 228 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: Following common witchcraft beliefs, obtaining and damaging a person's clothing 229 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: was thought to cause injury to the owner. Margaret claimed 230 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 1: that after Joan dipped the glove in boiling water and 231 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: stroked her cat rudderkin with it, Henry was sick within 232 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: a week. Margaret provided a similar account regarding young Francis, 233 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: saying she had found one of his gloves on the 234 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: castle grounds and brought it to her mother, who performed 235 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,160 Speaker 1: the same ritual, declaring the boy would never recover. Margaret 236 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: also described attempts to bewitch Lady Catherine using a piece 237 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: of her handkerchief, but claimed the spell failed. While damning 238 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: Margaret's initial testimonial only admitted to causing illness, not death, 239 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: the interrogators intensified their pressure. This may have included torture, 240 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: which was technically illegal in England at this time, but 241 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: was still employed, especially for high stakes crimes like witchcraft. 242 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: On February fourth, Margaret finally broke completely, confessing that she 243 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: and her mother had conspired to kill the earl's elder 244 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 1: son out of resentment for her dismissal. Philippa proved more resistant, 245 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: consistently denying any involvement in Henry's death while admitting to 246 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 1: participating occasionally and harmful magic. But eventually her resolve wore out, 247 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 1: and she gave the interrogator more than they bargained for. 248 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: Philippa confessed to having a spirit quote in the form 249 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: of a white rat that fed from her left breast. 250 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: She claimed this spirit promised to enchant a local man 251 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: into loving her. All she had to do was allow 252 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: it to suckle her. By this point, Philippa's interrogators might 253 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 1: have already searched her body for a suspicious birthmark or 254 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: mole that might have signified that a spirit or even 255 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: the devil himself fed there. Whether they found it then 256 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: or after Philippa made her confession, that was all the 257 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: evidence they needed to convict. Once those floodgates had opened, 258 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: Margaret admitted to hosting not one, but two spirits that 259 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: fed on different parts of her body in exchange for 260 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: granting her wishes. With those sensational details, the trial was 261 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: fast tracked. King James sent Edward Bromley to preside over 262 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: the case. Bromley was known for his harsh treatment in 263 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: previous witchcraft trials, which highlights James's personal interest in the proceedings. 264 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: A judge like Bromley, known to pressure juries into convicting 265 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: accused witches, virtually guaranteed the outcome, but even without their confessions, 266 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: the fate of the Flower sisters had already been sealed. 267 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: At this point, it wasn't yet legal practice for defendants 268 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: to have lawyers working on their behalf. With witchcraft trials 269 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: in particular, there were few reliable character witnesses and minimal 270 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:48,880 Speaker 1: opportunity to present any evidence in one's own defense. Trials 271 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 1: often devolved into hostile confrontations between prisoners and accusers. Uneducated 272 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 1: and defending themselves, young women faced a judai system designed 273 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: to confirm their guilt, not designed to discover truth. Margaret 274 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: and Philippa were tried before senior judges Henry Hobart and 275 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: Edward Bromley. Both women were found guilty and sentenced to 276 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: death by hanging. Unfortunately, official trial records have been lost. 277 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,920 Speaker 1: The only detailed account we have comes from an anonymous 278 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: pamphlet published after the proceedings. Concluded. Like many aspects of 279 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 1: this case, the complete truth may never be known, including 280 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: the authorship of that mysterious pamphlet with the Flowers sisters 281 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: condemned and hanged. Many parties involved found what should have 282 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 1: been satisfaction. The people of Botsford had their monsters, the 283 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: Rutland family had their explanation for their tragedy. King James 284 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: could claim another victory in his ongoing crusade against witches. 285 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 1: Everyone involved could feel that proper justice had been served, 286 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: But sadly, eliminating the source of the supposed witchcraft didn't 287 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: cure young Francis Manners the way his parents must have hoped. 288 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: On March fifth, sixteen twenty, just over a year after 289 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: the Flowers sisters were put to death, the boy finally 290 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: succumbed to his illness. With no surviving male heir, the 291 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:36,119 Speaker 1: Rutland title passed to the Earl's brother, George, who became 292 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: the seventh Earl of Rutland. Only one child of Francis 293 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: had survived, his daughter Catherine, born from his first marriage. 294 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: The Earl and Countess remained so convinced that witchcraft had 295 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: killed both their sons that they set their belief in 296 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: stone literally. Visitors to Saint Mary the Virgin's Church ind 297 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: Botsford can still see the Earl's tomb with its telling inscription, 298 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: marking his marriage to Cecilia and noting that their two 299 00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 1: sons died in childhood quote by wicked practices and sorcery. 300 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 1: This permanent testament to their beliefs stands to this day, 301 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: But was their conviction accurate. The Manners Boys probably didn't 302 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: die because of witchcraft, but did they die because of murder? 303 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 1: Because another influential figure lurked at the edges of these events, 304 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: someone who potentially stood to gain considerably from the deaths 305 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: of the Manners Boys. During this period, there was a 306 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: rising star at the court of King James the First. 307 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: If you've heard our episode about George Villiers, you'll know 308 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: he first caught the King's eye in his early twenties. 309 00:25:55,000 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: Court factions, seeking to replace a previous royal favorite, invested 310 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: heavily in presenting Villiers favorably, securing him a position serving 311 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 1: the King directly, and their strategy succeeded beyond imagination. Contemporaries 312 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,920 Speaker 1: described Villiers as attractive and charismatic, a personality higher for 313 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: the ages, though he came from modest origins, Villiers experienced 314 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: unprecedented social elevation, quickly becoming the King's most treasured companion. 315 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: King James bestowed knighthood, then made him a marquess, and eventually, 316 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: in sixteen twenty three, elevated him to the Duke of Buckingham. 317 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: The exact nature of their relationship has fueled centuries of 318 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: historical speculation. But what is undeniable is James's extraordinary devotion 319 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: to George Villiers, showering him with privileges, status, and influenced 320 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 1: unmatched by any other courtier. But what connects this royal 321 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:07,320 Speaker 1: favorite to our tale of accused Witches? Around early sixteen nineteen, 322 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,200 Speaker 1: as the Flowers women faced arrest and interrogation, George Villiers 323 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: was making moves to lock down Catherine Manners as his bride. 324 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 1: Katherine Manners the daughter of the Earl from his first marriage. 325 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: As the daughter of one of England's wealthiest noblemen, Katherine 326 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 1: represented an extraordinarily advantageous match for an ambitious courtier. In 327 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: Tracy Boorman's book Witches, James the First and the English 328 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: witch Hunt, the historian proposes a possible alternative explanation for 329 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: the Manners boys's death. She suggests the possibility that George 330 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: Villiers or his mother might have arranged for the boys 331 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: to be poisoned. Their motives would have been straightforward, with 332 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:08,680 Speaker 1: the male heirs eliminated, Catherine would inherit the vast Rutland fortune, 333 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,359 Speaker 1: which would then belong to Villiers through the magic of 334 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 1: the patriarchy. The timing certainly raises questions. Villiers regularly visited 335 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,520 Speaker 1: beaver Castle as part of the King's entourage, providing ample 336 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,400 Speaker 1: opportunity to arrange for poison to be administered. The prolonged 337 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: convulsive nature of the boys's illness aligns with certain symptoms 338 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: of certain poisons. Bormann also questions the origins of the 339 00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: pamphlet documenting the Flower's trial, which is our only detailed 340 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: account of the proceedings. She speculates that it might have 341 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: been commissioned by either Francis Manners or George Villiers himself, 342 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: designed specifically to cement public belief in the flowers women's 343 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: guilt and deflect any alternative theories about the boy's death. 344 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: We can only speculate about these possibilities. No conclusive evidence 345 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: links Villiers to the Manners boy's death, nor to the 346 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: prosecution of the Flowers Women, no participant left behind confessions 347 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,719 Speaker 1: of regret or acknowledgments of injustice. The burial of the 348 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:31,600 Speaker 1: Flowers Women effectively buried any alternative explanations along with them. 349 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: What we do know is that villiers pursuit of Catherine 350 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 1: Manners succeeded. On May sixteenth, sixteen twenty, merely two months 351 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: after Young Francis died, Katherine married George Villiers. Their union 352 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: initially faced resistance, particularly regarding religious differences, Catherine's Catholic background 353 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: clashing with Villiers, who was a Protestant, but eventually, with 354 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 1: the King's enthusiastic support, those obstacles disappeared. Through this marriage, 355 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: Villiers gained access to the substantial Rutland wealth, exactly as 356 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: would have been planned if Bormann's theory holds merit. The 357 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: couple produced a son, ensuring the fortune would continue through 358 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: Villiers descendants rather than returning to the Manners family. Villiers 359 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: was assassinated in sixteen twenty eight, taking the truth about 360 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: any potential evil schemes with him to the grave. By then, 361 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: the events at Beaver and the fates of the Flowers 362 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: Women had faded from public consciousness. Overshadowed by the intensifying 363 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: political conflicts that would eventually erupt into Civil war. The 364 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,200 Speaker 1: inscription at Bottsfield Church serves as a peculiar memorial not 365 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: just to two children who died prematurely, but to an 366 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: age when natural and suit supernatural boundaries blurred, when scientific 367 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: understanding remained rudimentary, and when society's most vulnerable could be 368 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: sacrificed to protect the powerful. Perhaps with more advanced medical knowledge, 369 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: both of the Manners boys might have survived. Instead, they 370 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: and three women lost their lives. The families were devastated, 371 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: and the potential true culprit if Bormann's theory was correct, 372 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: walked away with a noble wife and a fortune. Like 373 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: most which trials of this period, were left with questions 374 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 1: rather than answers. What remains clear is how this case 375 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: reveals the dangerous convergence of power, superstition and vulnerability in 376 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:54,040 Speaker 1: early modern England. Joan Philippa and Margaret Flowers with the 377 00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: perfect scapegoats. They were impoverished, outspoken, and socially marginal women 378 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: who possessed herbal knowledge in a society deeply suspicious of 379 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: female power in any form. Whether they were deliberately framed 380 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: by a calculating courtier, or simply caught in the web 381 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: of superstition that characterized the era. The result was the same. 382 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 1: They paid for their nonconformity with their lives. That's the 383 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: story of the witch trials of Beaver Castle. But keep 384 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: listening after a brief sponsor break to hear a little 385 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: bit more about the castle itself. If you visit beaver 386 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: Castle today, you'll find a place that's reinvented itself many 387 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: times over. The quote beautiful view that gave the castle 388 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: its name is still there, and the building itself remains impressive, 389 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: though it's now a nineteenth century Grade one mock castle, 390 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: not the structure that the Flowers women would have known. 391 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: There's one annual event at beaver Castle that I find 392 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: particularly amusing. Each year since twenty thirteen, over the autumnal Equinox, 393 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: the castle hosts something called the Equinox twenty four. This 394 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,560 Speaker 1: twenty four hour ultra marathon cuts a ten kilometer path 395 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: through the estate where runners push their bodies to the 396 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,840 Speaker 1: limit with the castle looming in the background. Just picture it. 397 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 1: Hundreds of modern day fitness enthusiasts in moisture wicking gear, 398 00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: apple watches strapped to their wrists, and protein goo PACs 399 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: in their pockets, stomping around the very grounds where the 400 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: flowers women once gathered herbs and allegedly plotted their witchcraft. 401 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: If Joan, Margaret and Philippa are somewhere haunting this place, 402 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,640 Speaker 1: they must be looking at these spandex clad creatures with 403 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: their linking gadgets and wondering what the hell happened to 404 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: good old fashioned magic. The irony isn't lost on me 405 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,360 Speaker 1: that a place once associated with accusations of the dark 406 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: art now hosts an event centered on the autumnal equinox, 407 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: a time traditionally linked to witchcraft and magic across many cultures. 408 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: Four hundred years after women were executed for allegedly casting 409 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: spells during that very season, people gather at Beaver to 410 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: perform their own ritual of sorts, pushing their bodies to 411 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: extremes that would surely seem like madness to the Botsford 412 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: residents who condemned their neighbors for far less strange behavior. 413 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: But that's the thing about the witch trials. They were 414 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:53,280 Speaker 1: never really about witchcraft. They were about control and fear 415 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 1: and punishment of those who don't fit neatly into society's expectations, 416 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: and in that sense, perhaps we haven't come quite as 417 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: far from the seventeenth century as we'd like to think, 418 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: but at least now we can track our steps. Noble 419 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,000 Speaker 1: Blood is a production of iHeart Radio and Grim and 420 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Mankey. Noble Blood is hosted by me 421 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: Dana Schwartz, with additional writing and research by Hannah Johnston, 422 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: hannah's Wick, Courtney Sender, Amy Hit and Julia Milani. The 423 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: show is edited and produced by Jesse Funk, with supervising 424 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: producer rima il KLi and executive producers Aaron Manke, Trevor Young, 425 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the 426 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 427 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 1: favorite shows.