WEBVTT - 30: Everything You Thought You Knew About Saudi Arabia Is Wrong

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<v Speaker 1>If you know, why should someone sitting in Did you

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<v Speaker 1>say Prioria, Peoria, Illinois. It's this fated place that's come

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<v Speaker 1>to typify Middle America. Why is someone sitting there? Should

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<v Speaker 1>care about? Saudi Arabia? High and Welcome back to Bloomberg Benchmark,

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<v Speaker 1>a podcast about the global economy. It's Thursday March. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Daniel Moss, Bloomberg News Executive editor for Global Economics. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>based in New York, but I'm back in d C today,

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<v Speaker 1>which means i can be in the studio with my

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<v Speaker 1>co host Tory Stillwell and economics reporter at Bloomberg News.

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<v Speaker 1>It's great to be back to ya, all under one

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<v Speaker 1>root of again. Benchmark has been traveling quite a bit lately,

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<v Speaker 1>having focused ourselves largely on the US, and the last

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<v Speaker 1>couple of episodes we've visited India to assess whether the

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<v Speaker 1>world soon to be most populous country can ever have

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<v Speaker 1>an economy to match that. We've also talked about China's

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<v Speaker 1>incredible shrinking labor market, and today we're going to take

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<v Speaker 1>a trip to Saudi Arabia, where there's more than meets

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<v Speaker 1>the eye. What's the disseyse geographic themes? Together? Dan Well

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<v Speaker 1>India and China are both going through significant economic change,

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<v Speaker 1>as is Saudi Arabia. It's fascinating. Really. We'll have two

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<v Speaker 1>guests to help us work through this. Donna Abu Nasa,

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<v Speaker 1>a Bloomberg colleague with extensive experience in the country, and

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<v Speaker 1>Monica Malick, chief economist at Abu Dhabi Commercial Bank in

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<v Speaker 1>the United Arab Earments, which is right next door to

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<v Speaker 1>Saudi Arabia. I feel like if we were to play

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<v Speaker 1>a word association game, like asking people what were some

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<v Speaker 1>of the first words that came to mind when they

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<v Speaker 1>thought about Saudi Arabia. I know for me personally, it

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<v Speaker 1>would be oil, the desert, and women aren't allowed to drive.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, the last one is a phrase, not a word.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know what about religion and strict moral codes? Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>well we'll get to all that now. Remember but one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>economic necessity, tends to drive social change, and the country

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<v Speaker 1>does matter enormously. It's been called the central Bank of oil,

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<v Speaker 1>like the FED or the e c B of that

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<v Speaker 1>black liquid stuff that makes the world go round, and

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<v Speaker 1>it has so much of it. You know, when you

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<v Speaker 1>think about a Tory, oil is the juice that's essentially

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<v Speaker 1>driven the hydrocarbon economy, and that's been the economy in

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<v Speaker 1>the past century, and beyond economics, it's traditionally been one

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<v Speaker 1>of the West's main allies in the region. But let's

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<v Speaker 1>stick with oil now. The country rose from essentially a

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<v Speaker 1>Bedouin society to fantastic wealth on the back of the

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<v Speaker 1>product in just the space of a few generations. But

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<v Speaker 1>sure enough, oil is now making Saudi Arabia poor. Do

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<v Speaker 1>you know I just learned the definition of Bedouin? I

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<v Speaker 1>really yeah, I'm reading a hundred Years of Soliditude, and

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<v Speaker 1>he uses that word. It means just like of Arab descent,

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<v Speaker 1>basically like an Arab nomad. I didn't know that. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't realize Marquez had as kind of insights, different continent,

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<v Speaker 1>different cultures. Well, anyways, Saudi Arabia is the largest exporter

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<v Speaker 1>of oil and accounts for six of the planet's oil reserves.

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<v Speaker 1>But as listeners of our show may know, the price

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<v Speaker 1>of oil has been on a swoon since two thousand fourteen,

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<v Speaker 1>losing of its value that year and about fifty percent

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<v Speaker 1>last year. And ironically, many analysts attribute that decline to

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<v Speaker 1>a price wark that Saudi Arabia itself started and ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't stop. While oil has rallied a bit off of

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<v Speaker 1>that bottom, it's only fetching about forty dollars a barrel

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<v Speaker 1>right now, down from about ninety dollars a barrel eighteen

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<v Speaker 1>months ago. And that is, as you can imagine, quite

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<v Speaker 1>a hit to national income. And it's ricocheting through Saudi

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<v Speaker 1>Arabia's entire economy. And that's force the Kingdom's rules, the

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<v Speaker 1>House of Sound to undertake some quite drastic measures. They're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about a value added text. There's no income text.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, that's been one of the long term

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<v Speaker 1>benefits of oil. They've also for shadow cuts in spending,

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<v Speaker 1>reduction in subsidies, and wait for a drum roll, changes

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<v Speaker 1>in labor force participation. Joining us right now is Donna

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<v Speaker 1>Abu Nassa, who covers economics and government for Bloomberg in

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<v Speaker 1>the Middle East. Donna has reported extensively on Saudi Arabian

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<v Speaker 1>economics and politics. She's now based in Beirut. But here's

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<v Speaker 1>an interesting fact. Donna opened the Associated Press Bureau in

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<v Speaker 1>Saudi Arabia in two thousand and eight. Pretty good, Donna,

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<v Speaker 1>it's great to have you. Tell us when were you

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<v Speaker 1>last in Saudi Arabia And what did you notice when

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<v Speaker 1>you were there compared with other visits you've made over

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<v Speaker 1>the years. Well, I was last in December. It was

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<v Speaker 1>my first time back in about three years. And what

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<v Speaker 1>I've found is a younger, more vibrant Saudi Arabia. It

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<v Speaker 1>was apparent the moment Diet I at the airport. There

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<v Speaker 1>used to be a very drab arrival hall years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It's now bright. You have television showing cartoons, you have

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<v Speaker 1>young men greeting you, um, older women, women with children

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<v Speaker 1>where as to sit down while male relatives took care

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<v Speaker 1>of passports control. So it was a parent from the

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<v Speaker 1>moment I set foot in Saudi Area. And what about economically,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, aside from the fact that it's now crawling

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<v Speaker 1>with McKinsey consultants. Well, Saudi East have to get used

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<v Speaker 1>to a new standard of life. Basically, the new Saudi

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<v Speaker 1>generation is going to live the kind of life that

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<v Speaker 1>their parents didn't. Their parents lived through the financial bomb

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<v Speaker 1>that made saudiast collectively rich. They want and so they're

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<v Speaker 1>trying to adjust to life, you know, with low oil prices,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to make priorities, trying to cut some luxuries or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe take on other jobs. So, I mean, we were

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about a person's everyday life here, a person living

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<v Speaker 1>in Saudi Arabia. Can you think of any examples of

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<v Speaker 1>how that person's life would be affected, that day to

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<v Speaker 1>day life would be affected by lower oil prices. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I spoke to somebody. He works as a professor at

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<v Speaker 1>the university, and he, you know, studied in the US.

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<v Speaker 1>So he said he was going to take advantage of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that he learned in the US and try

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<v Speaker 1>to make money out of it, training saudiast on how

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<v Speaker 1>to market their goods. Basically. Um. He said that at home,

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<v Speaker 1>he's teaching his children basically to save power. So he said,

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<v Speaker 1>he told his children, if you save three years words

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<v Speaker 1>of electricity amounths, the money will go to you. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>basically they're trying to learn new habits. So is there

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<v Speaker 1>a sense that your average Saudi Arabian family is recalibrating

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<v Speaker 1>the way it thinks about its economic life and the

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<v Speaker 1>way it sets its household budgets and the way it

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<v Speaker 1>plans for the future. They are. I mean, this guy

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<v Speaker 1>told me that according I mean, he friends to his

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<v Speaker 1>family and so on. They still hadn't afforded what happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he said, he keeps telling them that they

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<v Speaker 1>have to look at their bills, that they have to

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<v Speaker 1>make them smaller, basically, that they have to look for

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<v Speaker 1>other ways to find income. So, yeah, they will have

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<v Speaker 1>to adjust. Oil has enabled the government to subsidize many

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<v Speaker 1>aspects of economic life in Saudia, like types of aspects. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>my understanding, Donor, is there is no income tax for example,

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<v Speaker 1>that's true, and what about gas, electricity, fuel, These things

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<v Speaker 1>are all heavily subsidized as well. They are. And on

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<v Speaker 1>top of that, you know university students, they who go

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<v Speaker 1>to government universities, they get about to sixty dollars a

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<v Speaker 1>month as a monthly stipends from the government. And does

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<v Speaker 1>the decline in the price of oil mean the state

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<v Speaker 1>is less able to pamper its citizens generally? And what

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<v Speaker 1>impact is that then having One of the things that's

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<v Speaker 1>been affected is the government funded program that sent tens

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<v Speaker 1>of thousands of Saudi men and women to the West

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<v Speaker 1>to study. Now I'm hearing that the government is making

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<v Speaker 1>it more difficult for students to go. And the general

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<v Speaker 1>feeling is that the lower oil prices has something to

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<v Speaker 1>do with it, and it's all of this ultimately forcing

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<v Speaker 1>or at least enabling a significant degree of social change.

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<v Speaker 1>I read a story that you and our colleague Vivian

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<v Speaker 1>Nerum wrote recently which talked about women entering the workforce

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<v Speaker 1>at more than twice the rate of men. Talk about

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<v Speaker 1>that when you have a lot of women coming back

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<v Speaker 1>home from the West educated women, keep in mind that

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<v Speaker 1>the women outnumber men when it comes to higher education.

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<v Speaker 1>So when they come back home, these women want to

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<v Speaker 1>find jobs. They are looking for jobs, and the government

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<v Speaker 1>is trying to make it easier for them to basically

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<v Speaker 1>find jobs. For instance, when I was in Saudi Radio

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<v Speaker 1>around two thousand four, I remember walking into a store

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<v Speaker 1>that says lodgery and I so a woman. She was

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<v Speaker 1>totally covered in black. Only her eyes were showing, and

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<v Speaker 1>she was holding up a lazy orange rack and asking

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<v Speaker 1>the salesman in a whisper if he had her size. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, she's covered, he's not supposed to be looking

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<v Speaker 1>at her, but he was arguing with her about her size.

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<v Speaker 1>It was, you know. I spoke to a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>women and they said it was very embarrassing for them

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<v Speaker 1>to buy underwear in Saudi Arabia, some of them would

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<v Speaker 1>go out of the country to buy it, simply because

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<v Speaker 1>women were not allowed to work in stores, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the conservative religious establishment thought that women should not be

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<v Speaker 1>mixing with men, and if they worked a saleswoman, then

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<v Speaker 1>this thing would happen. So now ten years later, when

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<v Speaker 1>I went this time, I found women not only in

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<v Speaker 1>lingerie and makeup stores, but even ask a shears. So yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's amazing. And there's a sense that this is

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<v Speaker 1>being fueled by the change in oil prices and the

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<v Speaker 1>new sort of day life that these people are adjusting.

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<v Speaker 1>So Done at the beginning of the show is saying

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<v Speaker 1>how I feel like one of the most common things

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<v Speaker 1>that people know about Saudi Arabia, if you were to

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<v Speaker 1>just ask foreigners perhaps, is that women there aren't allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to drive. So we've we've got all this change that

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<v Speaker 1>we just talked about, and yet the unwritten slash written role,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not even exactly sure what it is is that

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<v Speaker 1>women can't drive. So is there any sense that this

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<v Speaker 1>is going to change and that we'll see women behind

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<v Speaker 1>the wheel more often? I don't see anything right now,

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<v Speaker 1>But Saudi is that I used to talk to in

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<v Speaker 1>in the yards would tell me that Saudi Arabia can

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<v Speaker 1>afford to stop its women from driving simply because they

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<v Speaker 1>are rich and oil has made them rich. So the

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<v Speaker 1>lower oil prices mean that Saudi women would finally be

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<v Speaker 1>able to drive. We'll have to wait and see, but

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<v Speaker 1>it might mean your average Saudi family has difficulty affording drivers,

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<v Speaker 1>and once that changes, that opens the door to other things. Absolutely, Donna,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much, Thank you for having me. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's dive a little deeper into the data and the

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<v Speaker 1>macro economic context in which this is all happening. Helping

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<v Speaker 1>us is Monica Malick, chief economist at Abu Dhabi Commercial

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<v Speaker 1>Bank in Abu Dhabi, and she also did her PhD

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<v Speaker 1>on the Saudi Arabian economy. Monica, it's great you could

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<v Speaker 1>join us. Thank you very much for having me. So

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<v Speaker 1>if you look out your office window you can just

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<v Speaker 1>about see Saudi Arabia to push, but tend to travel

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<v Speaker 1>there a lot, so I keep in touch that way well, Monica.

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<v Speaker 1>How significant are the economic challenges the country faces right now?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it just oil is down so we have to

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<v Speaker 1>tighten our belts a little bit for a while, or

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<v Speaker 1>is something more seminal happening. I think something more seminal

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<v Speaker 1>is happening. Firstly, I think it's important to note that

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<v Speaker 1>this is not the first time that Saudi Arabia has

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<v Speaker 1>entered a low oil price down turn outlook, and in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>Saudi Arabia is entering the low oil price period in

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<v Speaker 1>a better position that it's ever been with regards to

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<v Speaker 1>fiscal buses, and that includes high effects reserves and the

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<v Speaker 1>low debt levels. However, Saudi Arabia is also facing a

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<v Speaker 1>number of economic challenges and social challenges, and this means

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<v Speaker 1>that it cannot just be a case of Saudi Arabia

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<v Speaker 1>using its reserves without why the fiscal reforms, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is what we're seeing this time around. When the budget

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<v Speaker 1>was announced in December, concurrent with that, there were a

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<v Speaker 1>number of fiscal reforms, and it's really the first time

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<v Speaker 1>we're seeing it to this magnitude, not only in Saudi

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<v Speaker 1>Arabia but the wider GCC region. So what's changed in

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<v Speaker 1>the Saudi economy and Saudi society to make a different time,

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<v Speaker 1>Because as you've mentioned, your oils had its ups and downs.

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<v Speaker 1>It was around ten dollars a barrel in the late nineties.

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<v Speaker 1>What's happened between then and now. Well, I think population

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<v Speaker 1>growth is a significant part of the social change. We've

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<v Speaker 1>seen sort of strong population growth for the last three decades. Previously,

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<v Speaker 1>the government was always the employer of last resort and

0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.760
<v Speaker 1>Saudi Nationals could be absorbed by the public sector. But

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<v Speaker 1>this is no longer the case, and infrastructure has also

0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.480
<v Speaker 1>not kept up with the population growth. So those for example,

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.680
<v Speaker 1>shortage of housing for for for Saudi Nationals, there's a

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>need to upgrade utility and infrastructure, their shortages in the

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>summer where demand is higher because of the warmer weather.

0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 1>So to meet these challenges, Saudi Nationals will have to

0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.280
<v Speaker 1>be absorbed by the private sector. At the same time,

0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 1>the Saudi government, which had very sort of generous subsidy

0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.560
<v Speaker 1>programs and so on, cannot afford to continue with these

0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 1>payments as they had done before. What does what does

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:34.720
<v Speaker 1>labor force participation look like in Saudi Arabia? Well, such

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.440
<v Speaker 1>a very interesting question, and of course it varies greatly

0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.560
<v Speaker 1>between the female and male population. If we look at

0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 1>unemployment for for men in the Saudi labor force, it's

0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.120
<v Speaker 1>very small, it's about five percent, but for women it's

0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 1>around thirty three percent, So there's a marked difference. And

0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:56.120
<v Speaker 1>while women's employment has been a key objective of the

0:15:56.160 --> 0:16:00.040
<v Speaker 1>government and you have seen strong percentage growth, especially in

0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:04.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty and twenty fourteen, it's from a very low base.

0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 1>And of course there's social and cultural um issues that

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of make greater participation difficult. All the changes happening

0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 1>slowly when looked at from thirty thousand feet or from

0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>say Peoria, Illinois, Why on earth, with this incredible wealth,

0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 1>aren't their jobs for everyone in Saudi society? I mean,

0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:31.480
<v Speaker 1>why is there even a discussion about the structure of

0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 1>the labor markets. Surely there's enough to go around. I

0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.640
<v Speaker 1>think a lot of the issue is the need for

0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 1>educational reform that has been a key focus of the government.

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.680
<v Speaker 1>The focus has been on sort of changing the education

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>system that meets the requirements of the private sector more.

0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 1>And of course, given that it is education, it does

0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.480
<v Speaker 1>take time for the reform to one happen and to

0:16:57.720 --> 0:17:01.560
<v Speaker 1>to filter into the labor four market. Now, what you

0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.600
<v Speaker 1>are seeing over the last few years, alongside programs such

0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.919
<v Speaker 1>as sauda Ization, which aims to increase with quotas of

0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Saudi nationals working in companies. They have also been a

0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.960
<v Speaker 1>number of schemes that look at on job training, so

0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.840
<v Speaker 1>where government could give you know, sort of part of

0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:23.800
<v Speaker 1>the payment of the employee's wages to a company. And

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.280
<v Speaker 1>these are all methods that they're trying to use to

0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.720
<v Speaker 1>try and narrow the gap between the output of the

0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:36.199
<v Speaker 1>education system and the requirements of the private sector. Also,

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.600
<v Speaker 1>what we've seen is is a need to increase for

0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:43.159
<v Speaker 1>an investment into Saudi Arabia, and not just in the

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.200
<v Speaker 1>hydro carbon sector or you know, the capital intensive sector,

0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 1>but the areas that would create jobs growth, And another

0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 1>area of focus is increasing the small to medium size

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.399
<v Speaker 1>industries and companies could also these are the areas that

0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>can provide new employment opportunities. But I think a lot

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.200
<v Speaker 1>of the issues is that the oil sector and the

0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>hydrocarbon sector dominates the Saudi Arabian economy. This tends to

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.400
<v Speaker 1>be capital intensive, not labor intensive, and and job creation

0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.560
<v Speaker 1>also needs to go hand in hand with the diversification

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:21.280
<v Speaker 1>of the economy. Yeah, it's really interesting because a lot

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.040
<v Speaker 1>of what you're saying in its own way could apply

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.520
<v Speaker 1>to the United States. Right now, we've been hearing a

0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:30.840
<v Speaker 1>lot about needing to fix the skills gap between what

0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.119
<v Speaker 1>employers want and what people are coming out of college

0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:37.240
<v Speaker 1>and and high school with, and sort of how to

0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 1>marry that gap, as you eloquently put it, as well

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.080
<v Speaker 1>as we used to have or not even that long ago,

0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:45.400
<v Speaker 1>a year ago, maybe a little bit more. We had

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a booming shale industry that was employing a ton of people,

0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 1>and as we know, those sectors have been laying people off.

0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Where do they go to find jobs? So I thought

0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.760
<v Speaker 1>it was really interesting that Saudi Arabia and America see

0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.680
<v Speaker 1>you facing somewhat similar issues. Um. One thing that I'm

0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.879
<v Speaker 1>wondering though, is sort of why how this plays into

0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:08.280
<v Speaker 1>the broader global narrative. You know, why should someone sitting

0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:14.040
<v Speaker 1>in did you say Prioria, Peoria, Illinois, fated place, let's

0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:17.720
<v Speaker 1>come to typify Middle America? Okay, Well, that place, I believe,

0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.480
<v Speaker 1>I just can't pronounce it. Why someone sitting there should

0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:27.680
<v Speaker 1>care about Saudi Arabia. Well, I think it still plays

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 1>a leading role in the global hydrocarbon sector. If we

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:36.439
<v Speaker 1>look at the strategy that OPEC has implemented over the

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:40.399
<v Speaker 1>last two years, it's very much driven by Saudi Arabia,

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.200
<v Speaker 1>and it's objective to to maintain market share. The fact

0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.359
<v Speaker 1>that it does have greater busses than it did in

0:19:47.440 --> 0:19:51.119
<v Speaker 1>previous cycles means that they can have a strategy to

0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.480
<v Speaker 1>keep oil prices lower for a while, although we have

0:19:54.520 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 1>seen a shift to look at freezing output with the

0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 1>move down in oil prices in the early part of

0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.240
<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen. So I think it's role in the oil sector,

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:07.919
<v Speaker 1>but also the fact that it's the largest economy in

0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the region. It's it's got a strong population. It will

0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:16.640
<v Speaker 1>provide a strong domestic base of growth and consumption if

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.360
<v Speaker 1>we do see the employment picture improving and and picking up.

0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:23.800
<v Speaker 1>There's a number of quite exciting programs and projects that

0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:26.400
<v Speaker 1>are going on and in the Kingdom on the education

0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:30.199
<v Speaker 1>side and trying to bring research and development into the country,

0:20:30.240 --> 0:20:33.639
<v Speaker 1>although these are quite tentative and initial moves. So I

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.280
<v Speaker 1>think that the fact that you are seeing the social change,

0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.080
<v Speaker 1>the role of Saudi Arabian the region and in the

0:20:39.160 --> 0:20:43.639
<v Speaker 1>hydrocarbon sector, or you know, important on the global perspective.

0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.200
<v Speaker 1>We've talked a little about changes in the labor force,

0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.720
<v Speaker 1>and before you're on, our colleague Donna talked a little

0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.280
<v Speaker 1>bit about the evolution of the role of women in

0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.960
<v Speaker 1>the workplace, Monica, what's it like for you when you

0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.000
<v Speaker 1>go to visit clients in Saudi Arabia and compare it

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:04.120
<v Speaker 1>with say, your experience it's five, ten, fifteen years ago. Um,

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.679
<v Speaker 1>you know, I was doing my PhD in Saudi Arabia

0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:11.160
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineties when oil was at the end

0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:14.000
<v Speaker 1>of the round eleven dollars a barrel. One thing that

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.760
<v Speaker 1>is very notable when I do go in. While there

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.679
<v Speaker 1>are still a number of cultural restrictions, the ease of

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:25.400
<v Speaker 1>getting visas, the ability to travel by myself, the ability

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:30.679
<v Speaker 1>to go into offices has changed markedly. I think it's

0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:34.440
<v Speaker 1>far easier for women to go and conduct business there.

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>But I think the social change has been quite notable,

0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.560
<v Speaker 1>women being able to vote in municipal elections, but also

0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 1>a more outward looking view and stances also there. So

0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:51.879
<v Speaker 1>while from the outside it might not seem as significant

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:54.560
<v Speaker 1>to a substantial change, but for someone who has been

0:21:54.600 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>looking at Saudi Arabia for you know, quite a while now,

0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.640
<v Speaker 1>you do not changes and and you know, changing mentalities

0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and attitude. It's a lot to think about that tory

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:10.280
<v Speaker 1>it is it is. Thank you so much for joining us, Manica.

0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 1>This was great it's very much a pleasure. Thank you

0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 1>very much, Thank you, and thanks to you all for

0:22:15.600 --> 0:22:18.320
<v Speaker 1>listening to Bloomberg Benchmark. We'll be back again next week

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.080
<v Speaker 1>and until then, you can find us on the Bloomberg terminal,

0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.760
<v Speaker 1>as well as Bloomberg dot com, iTunes, Stitcher, tager casts,

0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:27.119
<v Speaker 1>and many other places and let us know what you

0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 1>thought of the show. You can talk to and follow

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:33.400
<v Speaker 1>us on Twitter at at Tory Stillwell and at Daniel

0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Moss TC. Did you know our producer, Liz came from

0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.200
<v Speaker 1>pure Illinois. Yeah, I just found that out. Shout out

0:22:40.240 --> 0:22:40.679
<v Speaker 1>to Liz