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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women in them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Zephi, bast start changing it

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Speaker 2: with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 1: Well, where my mom is dead? Well, I Brad Pitt.

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Speaker 3: At least I didn't kill her. Okay, but I will

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Speaker 3: turn you into a vampire. Wow, this is a great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I if I was at home, I would I

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Speaker 1: could have really performed that, but you know, it's just

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Speaker 1: not happening today. That was an attempt at introducing our

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Speaker 1: interview with the vampire. I kept saying it with different

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Speaker 1: nansas like interview and a vampire interview, but a vampire like.

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Speaker 1: There's so many fun ways too, and none of them

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Speaker 1: are The title Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name

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Speaker 1: is Jamie Loftus, my name is Caitlin Dronte. This is

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Speaker 1: our show where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechdel test as a jumping off point. And that,

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Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist

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Speaker 1: Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test because it

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Speaker 1: was kind of co created with her friend Liz Wallace,

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Speaker 1: and it has many versions, but the one that we

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Speaker 1: use is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender

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Speaker 1: have names? Do those characters speak to each other? And

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Speaker 1: is their conversation about something other than a man? And

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Speaker 1: we especially like it when it's a nice, meaty, juicy,

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Speaker 1: maybe even bloody conversation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is our food discourses, our disgusting food. When

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Speaker 1: the night falls, we can finally start adding discourse.

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Speaker 3: Right, So today's episode is Interview with the Vampire, because

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Speaker 3: I was always calling it interview with a vampire, but

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Speaker 3: it's the.

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Speaker 1: Interview where there's the vampire. Dude, where's my vampire? Frost Vampire?

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Speaker 1: What are other movies about? Interviews? Frost Vampire would actually

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Speaker 1: be a great movie. Oh my god, I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it would be. That would be a fun queer

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Speaker 1: Candon movie. Frost Vampire.

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Speaker 3: Sure, sure, I never saw Frost Nixon. That's what you're

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Speaker 3: referring to.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, it take kicks it out, put in the vampire, Okay,

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Speaker 1: and then I think, now we're kind of cooking. We've

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Speaker 1: got a real TV event.

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Speaker 3: So true, in any case, interview with the vampire. That's

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Speaker 3: did I say it wrong again? Interview with the vampire.

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Speaker 1: With the Oh yeah, I think it's the the where

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Speaker 1: you're like the trips you up. Lestat is still a

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Speaker 1: lot like he's not like the vampire. He's like acting like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Beyonce of vampires, which he's not I know, easily

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Speaker 1: the vampire I like the least.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they're all just one of many.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Jordan's freaking out.

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Speaker 3: Anyway. We've got two incredible guests. They are the hosts

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Speaker 3: of Queer Quadrant podcast. It's Jordan Gustafson and Brooks Solomon.

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Speaker 1: Welcome.

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Speaker 5: I know, okay, I'm personally a fan of dude, Where's

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Speaker 5: my Vampire?

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Speaker 4: Is pretty good?

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Speaker 1: Thank you? Yes for me because I'm not a Louis fan.

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Speaker 1: Interview with some vampire.

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Speaker 5: I agree that he's the weakest vampire in the film.

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Speaker 6: Easily every vampire is better than him.

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Speaker 4: It is just a vampire.

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Speaker 7: He's really interviewing though, So you could say, like interview

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Speaker 7: with a vampire, but it's not.

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Speaker 6: It's not. I feel like so.

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Speaker 5: We we were telling Kaitlin we did this movie a

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Speaker 5: very long time ago. At the very very beginning of

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Speaker 5: our podcast, and we've been waiting for an opportunity to

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Speaker 5: resync our teeth into it. But I remember on our

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Speaker 5: podcast that interview with a vampire versus the vampire tripped

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Speaker 5: us up for the whole episode.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just not the vampire. I feel like if

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Speaker 1: it was Unfortunately and I'm you know, I'm not like

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Speaker 1: vampire Punt. I'm not caping for Lestat or anything, but

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Speaker 1: he's certainly a more anti. If the whole movie was

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Speaker 1: an interview with Lastat, I would buy interview with the

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Speaker 1: vampire because he has energy that is like I am

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Speaker 1: the vampire. He wants everyone to believe that he's He's like,

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Speaker 1: don't leave the country. I'm definitely the only vampire.

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Speaker 7: Even like Armand would be pretty good because he's like,

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Speaker 7: I'm the oldest vampire you know, and you're like, yes,

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Speaker 7: you are the grand dom.

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Speaker 3: He's the og vampire.

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Speaker 4: I am Dracula.

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Speaker 1: Yeah what No, s Feratu found dead in a ditch,

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Speaker 1: like he's the vampire.

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Speaker 7: It's cool that this movie presupposes that vampires can be hot,

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Speaker 7: because you know the Dawn of cinema, they're like vampires

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Speaker 7: are ugly, Nos s Faratu, and this movie is like

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Speaker 7: what if Antonio banderas.

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Speaker 6: This is kind of like the vampire movie.

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Speaker 5: I am, well, I mean, obviously there are so much

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Speaker 5: but like, when I think about what I want out

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Speaker 5: of vampires, this is the version of vampires that I want.

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Speaker 5: I really liked that bitchy, expensive mother.

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Speaker 3: Puckers rama queens. Yes, they're they're fun, They're hot, and

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Speaker 3: they're fun. What is your history and relationship with this movie?

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Speaker 5: I watched it for the first time for our episode

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Speaker 5: that we did. I had never seen it. I just

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Speaker 5: knew kind of like the cultural cachet of like, oh

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Speaker 5: did you know that there's this weird, campy like sort

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Speaker 5: of game vampire movie. And then I got obsessed. And

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Speaker 5: I still haven't read the book, but like, I mean,

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Speaker 5: this movie is ridiculous, but I think it's a very

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Speaker 5: good time and I'm loving the show on AMC Plus

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Speaker 5: right now.

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Speaker 3: I just started it to prep for that.

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Speaker 1: If I haven't seen this show, fabulous, I haven't either.

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Speaker 4: It's okay, I.

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Speaker 6: Know, okay, okay, I'm caught up.

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Speaker 5: I think maybe I'm one episode behind, but it's like

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Speaker 5: this to me, I'm very I'm very Anne Rice pilled

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Speaker 5: at the moment at the moment, So yeah, I hadn't.

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Speaker 6: I hadn't seen it.

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Speaker 7: You're dipping yourself in a bowl of rice, trying I

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Speaker 7: think all of rice.

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Speaker 4: Right right, You're a rice pilled.

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Speaker 7: So I watched for the first time for the Pot

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Speaker 7: as well, And I think I was mostly aware of

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Speaker 7: it slash interested in it because as a Tom Cruise

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Speaker 7: you know fan, as someone who has seeing every movie

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Speaker 7: of his, you know, it was something that.

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Speaker 4: Was always lingering in the mind.

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Speaker 7: And I think I was also just kind of aware

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Speaker 7: of it because I think like I knew about David

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Speaker 7: Geffen early because I'm such a little shop fan, and

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Speaker 7: I knew that he produced it, so and he's also

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Speaker 7: was kind of one of the first gay famous people

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Speaker 7: that I was aware of because of like the Spielberg

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Speaker 7: connection as well. So I feel like when you're like

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Speaker 7: a young burgeon and creative.

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Speaker 4: And you're like, who are queer?

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Speaker 7: You know people in Hollywood, it's like one of the

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Speaker 7: first names. So I think that was probably one of

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Speaker 7: the things that led to it. But I know, like

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Speaker 7: when whenever we covered it, I feel like I'm never

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Speaker 7: going to listen to that episode again because it was

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Speaker 7: so early and I don't even remember what my thoughts are.

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Speaker 7: So this feels like a whole new experience.

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Speaker 1: It's like a rebirth, like how we feel about the

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Speaker 1: first like easily three years of our show at this point.

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Speaker 3: We should just delete all of those episodes. But this

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Speaker 3: is the thing. You're getting a chance at a new life,

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Speaker 3: and we're gonna give you the choice that we didn't have.

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Speaker 1: You did it to have a better opinion on interview

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Speaker 1: camire old podcast episodes are so challenging. But I do

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Speaker 1: feel like you're like, wow, a public record.

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Speaker 6: Of bad taste you gotta learn on the fly.

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Speaker 1: Or how much smarter you eventually got.

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Speaker 4: Sure, that's a good way to phrase it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, how much better we got it talking to people.

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Speaker 5: I think it's the.

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Speaker 4: Biggest thing that's true. That's true.

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Speaker 5: One would consider that a core tenant when starting a podcast.

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Speaker 1: You would think, however, yeah, it's a humiliation kink mostly mostly, Yeah.

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Speaker 7: It's kind of like being a vampire's a humiliation kink.

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Speaker 7: You know, you're just like you can't go outside. They're like,

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Speaker 7: don't you want to like come to the park with us?

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Speaker 5: Like I do think vampires are the gayest like fictional creature.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, possibly, I can't think of anything that.

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Speaker 5: And I say that as as a compliment, but like, well,

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Speaker 5: of course, I don't think anything else comes close.

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Speaker 3: I wonder if that's why I'm so into vampire lore,

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Speaker 3: because like, I love, not that I've like done a

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Speaker 3: deep dive, really, but I love so much just like

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Speaker 3: vampire stuff like media and who are your vampires?

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Speaker 4: Who are your guys?

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Speaker 3: I mean, welcome to WT with probably Buffy the Vampire

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Speaker 3: Slayer is my biggest although she's killing vampires, but they're

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Speaker 3: you know, they feature prominently. And then there's some vampires

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Speaker 3: like Angel and Spike was going to become series regulars

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Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and then Angel had his own

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Speaker 3: show which I didn't watch nearly enough of. Oh no, Actually,

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Speaker 3: my biggest vampire thing is what we do in the

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Speaker 3: Shadows DA. I love the movie. I love the show.

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Speaker 3: I also enjoy from Dusk till Dawn. I enjoy a

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Speaker 3: girl walks home alone at night. Then we've got Blade

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Speaker 3: Blade Rules, We've got And I haven't seen this the

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Speaker 3: whole way through, and I really want to sit down

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Speaker 3: with it sometime soon. But the Francis Ford Coppola bron

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Speaker 3: Stalkers Dracula like Keanu Reeves being weird, and Winona Ryder

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Speaker 3: is there and like all kinds of goofy stuff. I

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Speaker 3: also really like, what's the Willem Dafoe plays nos Faratu, and.

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Speaker 7: It's like, is the name nos Fachu the living Vampire

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Speaker 7: or is it the other one where it's like the

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Speaker 7: the other because there both came out like in the

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Speaker 7: same year.

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Speaker 1: Hold up, and then there's a new nose for Atu

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Speaker 1: coming out right news.

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Speaker 6: From the Bitch Guys, Shadow of the Vampire.

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Speaker 3: Shadow of the Vampire. Yes, I also need to rewatch that,

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Speaker 3: But there's just I don't know, there's something so alluring

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Speaker 3: about vampires anyway, Jamie, what is your history with Interview

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Speaker 3: with a Vampire?

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess my bisexual card has been revoked because

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Speaker 1: I've never really been into vampires. Oh ever, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I don't I never really connected from me. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: seen this movie before. I feel like all of my

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Speaker 1: vampire knowledge I like, I don't know, because our generation

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Speaker 1: was like pretty pummeled with vampire media. I did watch Twilight.

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Speaker 1: I read Twilight. My mom and I shared the book

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Speaker 1: set is gross just she would give me her soggy

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Speaker 1: copies of Twilight, but Vampire Diaries missed me. True Blood

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Speaker 1: missed me, Like I just didn't. It didn't happen for

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Speaker 1: me for whatever reason. Maybe it was probably honestly because

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Speaker 1: my mom liked vampire stuff, and I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm built so different. I'm going to read a series

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Speaker 1: of unfortunate events forty times, and that's how I get

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Speaker 1: my bisexual card back to just take the edginess in

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Speaker 1: the other direction, exactly going library edgy. But no, I hadn't.

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Speaker 1: I hadn't seen this movie before, and wow, Wow, it's

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Speaker 1: so weird. I can't. I like, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: word I would put. I was so enthralled. I also

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Speaker 1: read about half of the book, or I listened to

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Speaker 1: half of the audio book, let's be honest at but

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Speaker 1: I did listen to half of the audio book at

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Speaker 1: one point nine speed. And so I feel like I

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Speaker 1: speak as an authority when I say that the movie

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Speaker 1: is like a pretty close adaptation of the book, but

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Speaker 1: what is left out is really interesting, especially because I

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Speaker 1: forget what movie we were talking about this recently, but

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Speaker 1: it's like the rare movie that was actually adapted by

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Speaker 1: the author, which you never see. And so I think

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Speaker 1: it's interesting some stuff that ends up not being there,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, I liked it. It's such a weird. It's

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Speaker 1: so weird. There's so many things to talk.

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Speaker 6: About a rich text, there's so much.

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Speaker 7: I want to quickly agree with you, Jamie on the

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Speaker 7: not being super into vampires, because vampires, we talked about

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Speaker 7: this before on our podcast, were like my lowest ranked

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Speaker 7: of monsters. And I don't know whether maybe this is

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Speaker 7: like a New England well Brooks from New England, so

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Speaker 7: never mind.

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Speaker 5: But also I grew up a girl, and like true,

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Speaker 5: I was similarly like in the.

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Speaker 7: Twy Haart era, I guess, but like for me, I

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Speaker 7: was just like I guess because I had maybe like

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Speaker 7: the vamp. We were so inundated with vampires that I

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Speaker 7: think I went the other way, which is why I

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Speaker 7: think I was like less into them growing up, just

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Speaker 7: because like if there is so much, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 7: I don't know.

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Speaker 1: What missed me.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 1: I was trying to think of what my favorite monster is.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like sexy fish Guy. That's my favorite poster.

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Speaker 6: I love a sexy fish Guy.

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Speaker 7: Creature of Black Lagoon's my favorite monster movie because it's

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Speaker 7: like a weird guy, you know, but.

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Speaker 1: He's horny and sensitive and you're like, yes.

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Speaker 6: I could fix him. Yes, he actually doesn't need to

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Speaker 6: be fixed because he's.

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Speaker 4: Like sweetie, right, he's perfect.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he kind of arrives ready. Yeah, all he needs

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Speaker 1: is your acceptance.

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Speaker 4: He loves eggs, you know, it's fine, wholesome.

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Speaker 1: All he needed to do is flood your bathroom and

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Speaker 1: he's so he's so okay, he's ready.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know what it was.

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Speaker 1: I do feel like it was like a probably like

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Speaker 1: because I also read the Twilight books in secret. I

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Speaker 1: didn't like want all of my friends who loved Twilight,

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Speaker 1: and it would have been easier to connect with them

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Speaker 1: if I just admitted I was also reading them, but

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Speaker 1: I didn't want them to know. And I also had

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Speaker 1: this whole thing about magic. I think we talked about

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Speaker 1: this in our really really old Harry Potter episodes. But

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Speaker 1: I always was like, I didn't like fantasy because I

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Speaker 1: love series of unfortunate events so much and they didn't

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Speaker 1: have magic, and so magic in any other book was

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Speaker 1: cheating and magic was an unfair plot device, and the

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Speaker 1: Bodler orphans had to figure it out with a pile

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Speaker 1: of rope, and so I'm not interested in magic, which

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous, but it was how I felt for like

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Speaker 1: fifteen years.

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Speaker 5: I'm not going to derail this episode too much, but Jamie,

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Speaker 5: have you ever read The Mysterious Benedict Society?

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Speaker 1: No, I've heard that it's similar a.

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Speaker 5: Great follow up to Series of Unfortunate Events. It's so fun.

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Speaker 1: I'm doing a reread of them because I never listened

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Speaker 1: to the audio books and they're all read by Tim Curry,

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Speaker 1: and it's they're so good.

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Speaker 3: Has Tim Curry ever played a vampire? Because he has

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Speaker 3: so much vampire energy?

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Speaker 7: This is a huge question that is really is it?

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Speaker 7: You know, it kind of is vampire coded, but is

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Speaker 7: obviously it's a clown. But he can be like he

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Speaker 7: forms as your nightmare.

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Speaker 6: You know, technically he's a demon, right he was?

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Speaker 1: Okay? They say he was a vampire in The Worst Witch,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a Mary Kay Nashley movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, Well, wandering his potential, I would say.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know. I look up the image.

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Speaker 1: I think he kind of kills it. Oh my god, wait,

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Speaker 1: I need to said, I'm going to put this in

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Speaker 1: the chat. He he's definitely played a vampire.

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Speaker 4: Okay, this is exciting.

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Speaker 1: Anyway.

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Speaker 3: My relationship with the movie is I had seen it

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Speaker 3: many many years ago, I want to say, the early

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Speaker 3: two thousands, long before I was really thinking or reading

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Speaker 3: about queer reads of this movie. So I just didn't

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Speaker 3: really think about it or it didn't really occur to

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Speaker 3: me as like a queer text or like that there's

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Speaker 3: like a queer subtext present in this movie. Because I

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Speaker 3: also didn't really remember it before this rewatch. And then

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Speaker 3: I started watching it again, I was like, oh, yep,

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Speaker 3: there it is, I see it now right there. And

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Speaker 3: then I just started the series last night, so I'm

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Speaker 3: not very far into it. I'm like midway through episode four,

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Speaker 3: but I can't wait to talk about the kind of

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Speaker 3: adaptation changes and just the different things that the show

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Speaker 3: does that the I would say movie adaptation fails to

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Speaker 3: do or just kind of mishandles. So yeah, there's just

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Speaker 3: so much to chat about. Wait, let me look at

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Speaker 3: this picture.

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Speaker 4: Picture's going nuts.

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Speaker 6: It's fabulous.

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Speaker 1: Oh whoa, yeah, like he I feel like probably he

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Speaker 1: had that same thought at some point caate limb wher.

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Speaker 1: He's like, why the hell hasn't anyone cast me as

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Speaker 1: a vampire. I will do it for anyone, including Mary Kate.

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Speaker 3: Nashurally, he's like, you don't even have to pay me

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Speaker 3: my rate.

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Speaker 4: I'll just do it for me sag minimum.

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Speaker 5: Kind of perfect because you know nobody was telling him

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Speaker 5: he couldn't do something on that side.

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Speaker 6: He had free rate.

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Speaker 7: The green screen is really good, though. I think it

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Speaker 7: looks like we're actually outside at night. Like I don't

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Speaker 7: think that there's any sort of tell that it was

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Speaker 7: not shot on location, you know, so true.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how everyone feels about the time. Cruise

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Speaker 1: was like whatever, it's very nineteen ninety four casting. If

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about people I think did a good job,

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Speaker 1: I would be down to Kirsten Dunst and Antonio Banderis

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Speaker 1: I think correct. But I was just I was looking

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Speaker 1: at because I know Anne Rice was, and then she

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Speaker 1: like walked to these comments back later and she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise was good because she probably feared the Church

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Speaker 1: of Scientology. Honestly, if I was Anne Rice, I would

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Speaker 1: be like, I don't think that She's like, actually, he

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Speaker 1: did a good job. I think she's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: wish to die. I'm putting that on wax. She's dead.

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Speaker 1: We can't ask her, so it's the truth.

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Speaker 4: But well, maybe she's a vampire. We don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's if anyone is. But the people that were listed

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Speaker 1: as potentially being cast for Lestat, like all of them

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Speaker 1: were better ideas than Tom Cruise, John Malkovich, that would

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Speaker 1: have been great. Jeremy Irons terrible person, would have been

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Speaker 1: a good listat. It would have also been a good

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Speaker 1: count all off, if we're being honest, Yo, Rightdala supposed

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Speaker 1: to be scared. I just have it on the brain

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Speaker 1: right now. I'm like why they always cast him as funny?

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Speaker 1: He's scary anyways. Yeah, Tom Cruise is such a weird

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Speaker 1: I mean, and he goes for it in the way

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Speaker 1: that he's known too.

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Speaker 4: That's why I like it.

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Speaker 3: I will say, I don't hate his performance. And he's

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Speaker 3: acting circles around Brad Pitt and Kirsten Duns is acting

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Speaker 3: circles around both of them.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Brad Pitt bad person, bad job, Tom Cruise,

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Speaker 1: bad person, interesting job, Kirsten Dunn's great person, great job.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 5: I totally agree that we can give Tom Cruise all

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Speaker 5: the credit for going for it. Because I think that

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Speaker 5: he's honestly helped along by the fact that in the

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Speaker 5: same scenes you have Brad Pitt, who is very much

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Speaker 5: not going for it, and you're like.

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Speaker 6: Well, I hate this. I also just I think.

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Speaker 5: That the Cruise performance matches the over the top can

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Speaker 5: be energy because this he moves through so much so

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Speaker 5: quickly that like he has to make an impact in

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Speaker 5: about an hour, and I mean he makes the damn impact.

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Speaker 7: The first thirty with him are like my favorite part,

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Speaker 7: just because it feels like it's bottling something so particular.

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Speaker 7: And I think if you have someone of his status

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Speaker 7: coming in because obviously he's such a big start at

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Speaker 7: this point already, and he's delivering lines like do you

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Speaker 7: still want this? Or have you tasted enough? I've drained

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Speaker 7: you to the point of death. When you transition, the

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Speaker 7: world becomes different. Like he's delivering all these like big

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Speaker 7: vampire queer lines. And I think if you have someone

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Speaker 7: like Cruise with his kind of like very fruity, you know, behavior,

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Speaker 7: you have to like you buy into it, and you're like,

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Speaker 7: I would also transition for Tom Cruise, this vampire, you know,

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Speaker 7: because he has to have this greater than energy versus

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Speaker 7: like if it was like a boring kind of maybe

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Speaker 7: sexy but not like.

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Speaker 4: Overwhelming, guy, would you buy into it? Would you know,

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Speaker 4: become a vampire?

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Speaker 1: No? I guess yeah. When you put it like that,

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Speaker 1: it's like you are supposed to think. And also just

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Speaker 1: like having listened to half of the book really fast,

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Speaker 1: so again, scholar.

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Speaker 4: You are scholar.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you are supposed to get the feeling

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Speaker 1: that like less that is scary, but also yeah, critically,

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Speaker 1: he is also unhinged and unpredictable, and Tom Cruise in

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Speaker 1: that frame is kind of.

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Speaker 3: Exactly the right casting.

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Speaker 1: Like actually, I know, I know, we have to recap.

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Speaker 1: There is like a bizarre foreshadowing of Tom Cruise and

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Speaker 1: Oprah Winfrey's history happening here where Oprah Winfrey saw an

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Speaker 1: early screening of this movie and she left ten minutes

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Speaker 1: in because she said, I believe there are forces of

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Speaker 1: light and darkness in the world, and I don't want

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Speaker 1: to be a contributor to the force of darkness. And

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Speaker 1: we're like, wa, larious. There's plenty of like valid reasons

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Speaker 1: to want to leave this movie, but Oprah not wanting

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Speaker 1: to be allied with the forces of darkness I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure you're like friends with like Bill Gates,

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Speaker 1: like you're fully out, you are kind of the you're

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Speaker 1: inactive member of the force of Darkness. Anyways, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: liked that. She was just like, this movie is evil

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Speaker 1: and I'm leaving.

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be a part of it.

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Speaker 5: For you.

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Speaker 3: On that note, let's take a quick break and then

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Speaker 3: we'll come back for the recap. And oh, we're back. Okay,

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Speaker 3: so I'm going to do my best with this recap.

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Speaker 3: I will place a content warning at the top here

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Speaker 3: for suggestions of suicidal ideation as well as violence against women. Okay,

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Speaker 3: So we meet Daniel Molloy played by Christian Slater. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's in a room with Louis played by Brad Pitt,

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Speaker 3: about to interview Louis, and he's like, tell me about yourself,

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Speaker 3: and Louie's like, I'm a vampire tih and Molloy doesn't

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Speaker 3: believe him at first, but then.

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Speaker 1: Already right at the top, it like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: the fact that Brad Pitt appears in the present and

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Speaker 1: the past just draws more attention to the fact that

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Speaker 1: he just has a face that does not belong in

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Speaker 1: the past. It's so distracting to see him in the past.

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Speaker 1: He just doesn't whatever that thing is where it's just

437
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: like some actors just don't make sense in period pieces,

438
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: and he is one of them.

439
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 3: He's one of them. Also, you're telling me he never

440
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,160
Speaker 3: updates his haircut in the two hundred years.

441
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he cannot.

442
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 3: Oh when you cut, your hair just grows back immediately.

443
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: True nightmare, Like what if the day he became a vampire,

444
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: you were like dirty, like you're just dirty forever. Yeah,

445
00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 1: you look like shit, or like.

446
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,959
Speaker 6: You just got of a terrible cut and you were

447
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 6: waiting for it to grow back.

448
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:08,679
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, then explain though the so when when Kirsen

449
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 3: duns when Claudia at first her hair is like straggly

450
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,880
Speaker 3: and stringy and it's it's not cute, sorry to say.

451
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,560
Speaker 3: But then the second she becomes a vampire, now it's

452
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 3: curly and lush and she's got these beautiful, lush curls.

453
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: So like, I think the universe explanation is very Twilight,

454
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,679
Speaker 5: where it's like being a vampire just gets you the

455
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 5: honest version of yourself or the most the kind of

456
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,200
Speaker 5: like most alluring, like attractive version of yourself.

457
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 6: Because that's part of your way.

458
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: That you that's one of your weapons deduce people.

459
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, which makes the later Anne Rise Stephanie Meyer

460
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: debacle all the more hilarious, where it's like, ladies, ladies, ladies,

461
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: you are doing the same thing.

462
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 6: Right right, It's all okay.

463
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's horny vampires. Yeah, summer just Mormon.

464
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 6: But there's space forout everybody, Okay.

465
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: Anyway, so Molloy doesn't believe Louis at first that he's

466
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 3: a vampire, but then Louis does some vampire tricks, he

467
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 3: moves really fast, and then Malloy is like, okay, cool, cool, cool,

468
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:15,720
Speaker 3: I believe you.

469
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: Now that's what I'm like at the Magic Castle, just like, Okay, no,

470
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:20,960
Speaker 1: I guess you're a magician.

471
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 3: Okay, I believe you. And then Louis begins to tell

472
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: his story. Basically, he's like, it's been eighty four years,

473
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: except it's more like it's been two hundred years. We

474
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 3: flash back to the late seventeen hundreds and we learned

475
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 3: that Louis was an enslaver and he owned a plantation

476
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:42,440
Speaker 3: in Louisiana.

477
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 5: It's the it's it's sae hard cut to him being

478
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 5: like and I owned a plantation.

479
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: It's you're like, oh, we will get to that, because

480
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: it's it's weirdly like discussed more in the book, but like,

481
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I'm not going to accuse the

482
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: book of having any sense of nuance, but it's at

483
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:08,159
Speaker 1: least addressed more clearly that the book is anti slavery,

484
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 1: which the movie I don't think does an adequate job

485
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: of even remotely I agree.

486
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: So Louie is mourning the death of his wife and

487
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 3: his child who passed away recently, and he's grief stricken

488
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 3: and he wants to die himself. And this is when

489
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: he meets Lastat played by Tom Cruise, a vampire who

490
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: has been stalking Louis and who bites him and he's like,

491
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,280
Speaker 3: I'll give you the choice I never had to become

492
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 3: a vampire and it'll be awesome actually, and Louis agrees,

493
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 3: so Lestat turns him into a vampire. Which the lore

494
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 3: here is that Lestat drains most of Louie's blood and

495
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: then makes him drink some of Lastat's blood and that's

496
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 3: how you become a vampire. We cut back to the

497
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 3: present with this interview where Louie dispels some myths about vampires.

498
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 3: He doesn't mind crucifixes, and the stake through the heart

499
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 3: thing is nonsense. Though he does sleep in a coffin.

500
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: And the son will kill him like and the sun.

501
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: The sun will kill you, Like.

502
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: Some stereotypes are true.

503
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's one of the main tenants of the

504
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:32,160
Speaker 3: Bechdel casts. No, I'm kidding, But so we also learned

505
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 3: that different vampires have different powers. For example, Lestat can

506
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 3: read people's thoughts, and so we flash back again. Louie

507
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 3: is trying to like get into the groove of being

508
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 3: a vampire. Lestat moves in with him, and they're biting people.

509
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 3: They're drinking their blood, although Louie refuses to kill anyone,

510
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 3: so he survives mostly off of drinking animal blood. And

511
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: it's like, Okay, someone read Twilight, Anne Rice plagiarism much Lastat,

512
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 3: on the other hand, loves killing people, and he has

513
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: an insatiable appetite. He prefers killing young women and girls,

514
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 3: and like high society aristocrat types, especially ones who are

515
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: evil and who do bad things. And so I was like, okay,

516
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: dexter vibes sort of. But one night they go after

517
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 3: this rich woman who had her husband murdered and then

518
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,879
Speaker 3: blamed an enslaved person for the murder. But even then

519
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 3: Louis can't kill her, so Lestat is becoming kind of

520
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 3: increasingly annoyed with Louise's refusal to kill people, and so

521
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 3: he leaves. We then briefly meet a character named Yvette

522
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 3: played by Sandy Way Newton, an enslaved person at Louise's plantation,

523
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 3: and she's like, Hey, what's going on. Everyone is afraid

524
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 3: of you and your freaky friend. You please ask your

525
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 3: scary friend to leave. To get out of here. Louis

526
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 3: bites her and kills her in I guess, a moment

527
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 3: of weakness, but then he realizes what he's done and

528
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 3: that this place is cursed, so he frees all the

529
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,440
Speaker 3: people he is enslaved, and then he burns down the plantation,

530
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: presumably trying to end his own life in the process.

531
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 3: But Lestat shows up again and saves him, and he's

532
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 3: just like, this is what it is to be a vampire.

533
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,919
Speaker 3: You just gotta embrace it. So they moved to New

534
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 3: Orleans together. Although Louis is still unwilling to kill anyone

535
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 3: one night, Lestat pressures Louis into killing a woman, but

536
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: again he refuses, and then he like runs away and

537
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: on his little journey he finds a little girl, Claudia

538
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 3: played by Kirsten Dunst, whose mother has just died of

539
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 3: a plague of some kind. So Louis bites her, and

540
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: then Lestat walks in just then and he's like.

541
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: Whoooo laughing his you go girl, little ass off. M

542
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: these guys, these guys, these guys.

543
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 5: They're so silly. There's he canonically baby traps.

544
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, yes, you know the best way to fix a

545
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 7: relationship is to have a baby or get married to

546
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 7: have a child.

547
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: You know, it fixes everything.

548
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 1: My favorite letterbox trophew of this movie was like Louie

549
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: says I'm leaving, and then Listat says I'm pregnant and

550
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: it's yours, which is basically what he does. Yeah. God,

551
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: they're just the whole movie improves in my mind one

552
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 1: thousand percent when you know that it ends with stapping

553
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: like what a fucking baby? Right, Like you're just like, yes,

554
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: that's the coolest thing I've ever heard. I wish every

555
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: book ended like that. I wish Twilight ended like that.

556
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: It would have improved the whole series.

557
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 6: This is one of my favorite eddings. Well we'll talk

558
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 6: about it.

559
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: When we get to it, but it's so awesome.

560
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 6: It's one of my faves.

561
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: Okay, So what happens basically is that Lestat turns Claudia

562
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: into a vampire. Her hair gets so curly. She then

563
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 3: immediately wants so much blood, and they take her in

564
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 3: as their daughter. They like teach her how to be

565
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: a vampire and how to feed on people. You know,

566
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 3: just two gay vampire dads and their adopted child. She's

567
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: very spoiled, and she's always killing her piano teachers and

568
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: her dressmakers and basically anyone else who's around. Then many

569
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 3: years past, obviously none of them have aged, and one

570
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 3: day Claudia sees a naked woman through a window and

571
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 3: she's like, I want to be like her and have

572
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 3: boobs like that, and they're like, oops, sorry, your body

573
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: will always be that of a child. And then Claudia

574
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 3: is resentful for them turning her into a vampire and

575
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 3: making her this devilish creature who will never grow up,

576
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 3: and for taking her mother away from her. She especially

577
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: hates Lastat for this, so she kills him by tricking

578
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 3: him into drinking the blood of people who are already dead,

579
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: which is like kind of poisonous to vampires, and then

580
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 3: slitting his throat, or at least they think that she

581
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 3: has killed Lastat, because one night after Louis and Claudia

582
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 3: have I think they're either about to move to Europe

583
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: or they have already moved to Europe, something, Lastat shows up.

584
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 3: He's all decaying and gross and he's so mad, and

585
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: Louis and Claudia set him on fire and escape, and

586
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 3: now they're in Europe, and they spend many years traveling

587
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 3: the world searching for other vampires, but they can't find

588
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 3: any until it's eighteen seventy there in Paris, and then

589
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 3: Louis finds this goofy little clown vampire doing a jig.

590
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 3: He's doing some antics.

591
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: It reminded me of that in Sync music video where

592
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: they're all in the box. He's dance.

593
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 6: He is doing the bye bye bye music video.

594
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's in the bye bye bye box.

595
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 4: You know, he's definitely in a bye box, if you

596
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying.

597
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people in this movie are in

598
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: the bye bye bye box.

599
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 4: It's something weird to talk about.

600
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, anyway, this vampire is name is Santiago and

601
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: he's played by Stephen Ray, who I didn't recognize or

602
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: realize I was him at first. I mostly know him

603
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 3: from V for Vendetta, but anyway, he's there. But the

604
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: more important vampire in this situation is his daddy, the

605
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: leader of the Paris Vampire clan.

606
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: He's actually the oldest vampire ever, oldest vampire.

607
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 3: This is Armand, played by Antonio Benders.

608
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 6: A truly special wig.

609
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: He's wearing a wig, so Armand invites Louis and Claudia

610
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: to his play, which is vampires as the actors pretending

611
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: to be humans pretending to be vampires.

612
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: I love when they're watching it and Claudia is like,

613
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: it's so avant garde. He's like, oh, she's so right.

614
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 3: This is art.

615
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 6: It's dinner theater.

616
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 4: I'm playing within a movie.

617
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: It was a play that felt like a play it did.

618
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 4: I like that.

619
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: And sometimes when people say avant garde, they do just

620
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,960
Speaker 1: mean like not very good, and I think that that's

621
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: also true.

622
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 4: Yes.

623
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 3: So then Armand shows Louis and Claudia around his Phantom

624
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: of the opera, ass Underground Layer full of many vampires

625
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: and Louis asks Armand, like, what are we? Who are we?

626
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,239
Speaker 3: Who's the original vampire? Because he still has all these

627
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 3: questions about his identity, his vampire identity and what this

628
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 3: all means. But Armand doesn't really answer him. But as

629
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 3: far as he knows, he's the oldest living vampire at

630
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 3: four hundred ish years old.

631
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 1: Also, they're in Paris at this point, right, yes, so

632
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: for what it's worth, I also made the Phantom of

633
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: the Opera connection due to candles in a basement, and

634
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 1: this would have been happening like around the same time

635
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 1: that the Phantom would have been phantoming nearby, because the

636
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: events of Phantom of the Opera were in the eighteen

637
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 1: eighties and this is I believe the eighteen seventies, so

638
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: he would have been lurking around. He could have been

639
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: at that play.

640
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 7: Fan fic idea crossover of the centuries.

641
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: That meets Gerard Butler Phantom.

642
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 4: Yes, I would pay money to actually watch this.

643
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 6: Oh, I see it. I see it.

644
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 5: And Christine and Louie can go be sad together. That's

645
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 5: on a balcony somewhere.

646
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: I could just go be the most bummer part of

647
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: their respective movies.

648
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 7: Right, No one really like likes. When they're back on screen.

649
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: You're like, well, I guess they are the main character.

650
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 1: Why do I hate them so much?

651
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 3: Anyway, So at this underground Vampire Layer, Louie is thinking

652
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 3: about how they may have actually wronged Listat by killing him,

653
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: because oh what if he's just like a product of

654
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 3: his circumstances. And then the vampire Santiago, who can read

655
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: people's thoughts, is like, just so you know, the only

656
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: crime a vampire can commit is killing another vampire, and

657
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 3: Louis is like, oh, okay, that's interesting.

658
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: Oh I love their faces.

659
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 5: We're like, oh, so we committed the crime and you

660
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,760
Speaker 5: can read our minds.

661
00:35:57,480 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 6: That's really great.

662
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: Oh that's actually good because I haven't done that, so.

663
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 6: Definitely have it.

664
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: So now Claudia is worried that Louie is going to

665
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 3: leave her to like hang out with Armand, especially because

666
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 3: Louis thinks that Armand could be the teacher that Lestat

667
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: never was to him. So he's like very allured by

668
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 3: Armand And we can talk about the adaptation difference from

669
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 3: the book to the movie in a bid but he

670
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 3: he's like very into Armand. But he goes home to Claudia,

671
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: and Claudia has a woman there, Madeline, who wants to

672
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: become a vampire, and Claudia wants her as her kind

673
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 3: of like companion slash mother figure, so Louis does it.

674
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: He turns her into a vampire, but just then they

675
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 3: are all kidnapped by Armand's vampire minions. They steal Louis

676
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 3: in a coffin, and then they put Claudia in Madeline

677
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 3: in a like dungeon of sorts where they will be

678
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 3: exposed to sunlight, and that happens. They burn to a

679
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 3: crisp They die.

680
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 1: Now Armand, who.

681
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 3: Didn't realize that his minions were doing this, he rescues Louis,

682
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 3: who then enacts revenge on Santiago and the other minions,

683
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: and Armand still wants Louis to join him, but Louis

684
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 3: declines because he still has this like conscience that he's

685
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 3: had throughout the entire movie of Oh, it's so wrong

686
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: that we kill people and blah blah blah, and Armand

687
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: has no such conscience. So Louis leaves, but not before

688
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 3: they almost kiss each other on the lips. Close then

689
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 3: Louie wanders around for like a century or so, grieving

690
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 3: the death of Claudia, and then he returns to the US.

691
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: He becomes a huge film buff.

692
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: Kind of reminded me of the end of Babylon, where

693
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, they're just using clips. They're just using clips.

694
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 6: He discovers the power of cinema.

695
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: That's what happens when you get a David Geffen budget.

696
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, just put in a clip from the movie.

697
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: You got the money.

698
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 3: Superman.

699
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 4: Sure, Avatar should have been in there.

700
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 3: Avatar should have been in there.

701
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 5: No, gone with the Wind, which is a little surprising,

702
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 5: could remind him of his roots.

703
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, but they just had the Babylon approach.

704
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: So ye. It was kind of like, oh, m okay,

705
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: I'm god sure. Kind of fun.

706
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 3: Anyway, one night in New Orleans, Louis catches the scent

707
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 3: of a vampire and he follows it into an abandoned

708
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 3: probably plantation where Lestat has been squatting for who knows

709
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 3: how long, you know, rotting, still looking like shit. He

710
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: somehow didn't die after being burned and all the other

711
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: things that they did to him. You know, he's been

712
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 3: living off of rats the way Louis used to. And uh,

713
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 3: Lestat is hopeful that he and Louis will be together again,

714
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 3: but Louis is like, na, dude, bye, And then we

715
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,360
Speaker 3: cut back to the present with the interview with Christian Slater,

716
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 3: and Louis is like, I don't know what happened to Listad.

717
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 3: I never saw him again, and Christian Slater's like, well,

718
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 3: that's a terrible ending. Come up with something better. He's

719
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 3: also just like mesmerized by the idea of like being

720
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 3: a vampire.

721
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, And also it is like a lot is very

722
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: audacious of Christian Slater at the end of this multiple

723
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: hour story to be like, so what's the angle? You're like,

724
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: shut up, like what are you talking about?

725
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 3: And Louis is like, have you not been listening? I

726
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 3: just told you how like cursed of a life this is.

727
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 3: And then he disappears. So Christian Slater goes chasing after

728
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 3: him because he's just so obsessed with vampires now. But

729
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 3: guess who catches up with Christian Slater. It's Lastat, who

730
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 3: is still looking like shit until he bites and drinks

731
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: from Christian Slater, which like revitalizes Lestat and he's like,

732
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you the choice I never had,

733
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: which is again exactly what he said to Louis two

734
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: hundred years earlier, but.

735
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: Not before calling Louis annoying as shit. And then it

736
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: sort of like ends like a CSI Miami style or

737
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: it's like this, Yes.

738
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 6: That's a sympathy for the devil.

739
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,959
Speaker 4: A cover, right, It's great.

740
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: He's like, oh god, is he still whining about stuff?

741
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: I had to listen to this for two hundred years.

742
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah. And then he presumably turns Christian Slater

743
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: into a vampire.

744
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:45,879
Speaker 4: Yes, the end.

745
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 3: So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and

746
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,839
Speaker 3: we'll come back for the discussion.

747
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 1: And we're back.

748
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 6: What a recap?

749
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 3: Oh thank you?

750
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 4: I did my best.

751
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: Where to begin?

752
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 7: I feel like it's I have a quick thing on

753
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 7: Christian Slater just right up top.

754
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: Sure.

755
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 7: My read is that he's so you know, Anne Rice

756
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 7: lived in San Francisco growing up, lived in the Castro,

757
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,839
Speaker 7: lived in the Hate during like the Summer of Love.

758
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 4: So she's like surrounded.

759
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 7: By gay men basically, and her son obviously is gay.

760
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 7: My read on Christian Slater is that he's literally cruising

761
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 7: for like a vampire or a guy, and he ends

762
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 7: up like with Brad Pitt, in this it becomes because

763
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 7: like in the end, he's so in love with him,

764
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 7: and the like idea of vampiresm that I'm like, oh,

765
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 7: you got a taste of like what you wanted and

766
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,360
Speaker 7: now you're like, yeah, give.

767
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 4: Me the whole thing.

768
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 7: So my like macro arc is that he's like cruising

769
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 7: for his first time and ends up with like either

770
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 7: A a vampire or b is just like a gay

771
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 7: man for a hookup.

772
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,799
Speaker 4: But that's just was my read and why not.

773
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 6: Yes, exactly, why not both?

774
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 5: I agree because at the end, he doesn't just want vampirism.

775
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 5: He wants to become Louise companion, and louis like ultimate

776
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 5: curse is that everyone who he meets falls in love

777
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 5: with him for some reason must be the baby Blues,

778
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 5: and he doesn't want to be with any of them

779
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 5: because he's too MOPy. And every single person is like,

780
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 5: I would give you everything if you would come and

781
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 5: be my companion, and he's always just like, no, I

782
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 5: can't because reasons. And I think it's it adds a

783
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 5: really interesting like thematic layer to the whole movie because

784
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 5: it happens over and over again. It's the idea that

785
00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 5: he's constantly running from himself and he shouldn't be because

786
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 5: he's never going to escape it, and that like his

787
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 5: self loathing is all tied up in being a vampire,

788
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 5: i e.

789
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 6: Being queer.

790
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yes, so yeah, should we kind of start

791
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 3: there as far as the queer readings of this movie.

792
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, when it makes sense to go through like the

793
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: different adaptations and like how overt things, because I feel

794
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: like the movie, to my understanding, is the least gay

795
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,960
Speaker 1: version of this story. I think, so the book one

796
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: of the major differences. And I'm sort of just getting

797
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: into this part. But Armand's character is way way bigger.

798
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: In the book. He and Louis are in a relationship

799
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: for decades. They love each other. It is like overtly

800
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,440
Speaker 1: a queer relationship, and they like have I mean they

801
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: they sound like a drag honestly, but they're very in love.

802
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: They're like always talking about like they're talking about philosophy,

803
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: they're talking about the meaning of eternal life. They're you know,

804
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: they're like traveling the world together. They're trying to figure

805
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: out what it all means. And so there are like

806
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: overt protracted relationships in the book, which came out in yeah,

807
00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: seventy six.

808
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that as far as like our discussion goes,

809
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: that's I think the biggest adaptation change which was obviously

810
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,799
Speaker 3: left out of the movie. And when Anne Rice was

811
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 3: writing the screenplay for this, she was very hyper aware

812
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 3: of homophobia present everywhere and including Hollywood. So at one

813
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:27,320
Speaker 3: point in the development of the script, she changed Louie

814
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 3: to be a woman in order to kind of like

815
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 3: heterosexualize the relationship between that character and Lestat, because in

816
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 3: the movie, that's the relationship that gets most of the

817
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 3: screen time, and there are obviously like many queer under

818
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 3: if not overtones in that relationship, and so she was like, oh,

819
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,800
Speaker 3: this movie's not going to get made if like straight

820
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: audiences are watching this and perceiving this, and you know,

821
00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 3: Hollywood producers are perceiving this. So she considered straight washing

822
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 3: her own story, but at the end of the day,

823
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: like didn't end up doing it, and then the movie

824
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 3: was made the way it was, portraying that relationship the

825
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 3: way that it is. And I think at the time,

826
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 3: in you know, the mid nineties, when this came out,

827
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: I don't know if people were just like, oh, yeah,

828
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,400
Speaker 3: that's just how vampires be. They're just sort of like

829
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 3: sucking on each.

830
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 7: Other and like stuff flying to the sky with an

831
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 7: orgasmic face as they change into a vampire.

832
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like a lot of straight audiences didn't

833
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 3: really pick up on those, like those tones, but obviously

834
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 3: queer audiences did.

835
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,440
Speaker 1: And I like, if you can't pick up on it,

836
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 1: that's on you.

837
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 4: So that's right there.

838
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: I was, I would say, surprised at how queer this

839
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: movie did get because I just wasn't but I wasn't

840
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: aware before. Yeah, doing their research for this episode that

841
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: Ann Rice said considered straight washing her story, which especially

842
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,840
Speaker 1: with like, you know, David Evan being one of the

843
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: most prominent gay men in the world. He's a billionaire.

844
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 1: We don't even like him. He did make Shrek possible.

845
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 6: He did do that.

846
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 4: He made Shrek and Little Shop of warr If possible,

847
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,400
Speaker 4: and like he did, do you get a pass for that?

848
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 4: You're a billionaire, but you made.

849
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: Nine point one billion Shortan so much money. But but

850
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: you know, like he is like one of the I

851
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: would assume, most powerful gay men in the world, and

852
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: even he is not able to you know, get the

853
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: armand you know, even having him committing I mean, he's

854
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: very much the reason that this movie had the budget

855
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: it did because vampire movies were not, you know, really

856
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: popping off at all of this time. But this movie

857
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: had a seventy million dollar budget, of which Tom Cruise

858
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: got ten million of which is absurd. He's not even

859
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 1: in the whole movie, but whatever. Yeah, they could have

860
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:59,480
Speaker 1: hired Jeremy Irons for twelve dollars and he would have

861
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: done it. But yeah, the fact that even like that

862
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: amount of power and money and influence cannot get a

863
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:12,520
Speaker 1: explicit gay relationship into the story feels very nineteen ninety four.

864
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 5: It's pretty wild to me that. Well, there's kind of

865
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 5: the famous Norm MacDonald review of Interview with the Vampire,

866
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 5: which is currently my Twitter header, which says, here's my review,

867
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 5: not gay enough. And I agree that it's not gay enough.

868
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 5: But at the same time, it is very surprising how

869
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 5: gay it is given this was such a blockbuster, is

870
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 5: starring two of the biggest stars in the world at

871
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 5: the time. Is this kind of big, sweeping, epic story

872
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 5: like all of the people that Anne Rice suggested for

873
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 5: lestatt Allah, the Jeremy Irons of the world.

874
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 6: Like you said, Jamie, she could have gone them for

875
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 6: twelve dollars.

876
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 5: But this, like the cruise pit casting puts such a

877
00:47:56,719 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 5: spotlight on this movie that makes it both more impressive

878
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 5: and also more frustrating that it's not explicit.

879
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 6: It's so close to be explicit.

880
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:12,880
Speaker 5: Like we said, he canonically baby traps this guy and

881
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 5: says Louis was gonna leave us, and now he's not.

882
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 7: It Louis beautiful so many times, I mean Claudia.

883
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 6: Calls like many times the.

884
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 7: Claudia armand thing where she tells Louis armand wants you

885
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 7: as you want him, and there's just so many like

886
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 7: longing glances between them. It's impossible to watch this movie

887
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 7: and think that it's not queer. Right, It's just so textual.

888
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: Right, it is textual. It's so because it's it's textual,

889
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:44,799
Speaker 1: like visually, it's textual script and I'm just like amazed

890
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: that it exists in the way that it does.

891
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 7: She's just talked about it so much too, you know,

892
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 7: I think like since her son came out, she's obviously

893
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,839
Speaker 7: been more outspoken about it, but she's talked about how

894
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 7: it is gay allegory and how like honor she is

895
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,719
Speaker 7: by that, and like the quote that like I think

896
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 7: rings the most truth or like so funny to me,

897
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 7: is like it's just interesting. She goes, I think I

898
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 7: have a gay sensibility, and I feel like I'm gay

899
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 7: because I've always transcended gender and I've always seen love

900
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 7: as transcending gender. And she, I think just has such

901
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,479
Speaker 7: a queer sensibility. Whether or not that's because just how

902
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,879
Speaker 7: she grew up where she was, whether or not it's

903
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 7: her son's influence on her, whether or not it's herself

904
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 7: that she maybe like never got to express, but like

905
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 7: there is such a clear queerness to how she writes everyone,

906
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 7: and especially like queer men, which I think is super fascinating,

907
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 7: especially coming from like someone who was identifying as a woman.

908
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 3: So right, yeah, you know, I have some kind of

909
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: I guess questions I'd like to pose because I was

910
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 3: reading this as like obviously, you know, seeing the these two

911
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 3: handsome men sucking on each other and you know, rolling

912
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,479
Speaker 3: around together and all that stuff. But then more from

913
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: like an allegorical point of view, I think you could

914
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 3: read this as like, oh, this is a metaphor for

915
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 3: Louis realizing he's gay or bisexual or queer in some

916
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 3: manner and struggling to accept this about himself and having

917
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: a hard time like him refusing to embrace his vampire

918
00:50:27,880 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 3: ways and drink people's blood. I feel like could be

919
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 3: seen as like kind of a metaphor for someone struggling

920
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 3: to accept their sexuality and you have this other character

921
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 3: who has like fully embraced it and is like, just

922
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 3: do it. This is what this is the life.

923
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 1: Come on.

924
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 3: But I also find it interesting that that character, Lestat

925
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: is an abuser. He's a manipulator, he's an enabler. You know,

926
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 3: he's like, he's not a good partner.

927
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,120
Speaker 1: He's a murderer. He's a murderer.

928
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 3: So I'm just like, I wish that if that was

929
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: like kind of an intentional allegory on Anne Riis's part,

930
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it is, but if it was intentional,

931
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: I'm just like, well, you know, that's not great that

932
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 3: that's like the central relationship that you know, this person

933
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 3: who's like helping or encouraging this character to embrace who

934
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:31,319
Speaker 3: he really is is also someone who is extremely manipulative.

935
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: Not to say that that can't and doesn't happen, because

936
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 3: of course it does, and I'm sure that's a familiar

937
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 3: experience and relationship dynamic for many people, but because there

938
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 3: was so little queer representation in movies at this time,

939
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 3: either overt or more coded, it would have been nice

940
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 3: to see a healthier relationship dynamic on screen, especially since

941
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,440
Speaker 3: the other queer relationship in the book between Louis and

942
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 3: Armand is basically completely erased from the movie. Also, I

943
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 3: was reading different interpretations of this movie that sort of

944
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 3: treats vampurism as an allegory for HIV and AIDS, oh

945
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 3: always in a way that of course demonizes queerness and

946
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 3: demonizes HIV and AIDS, And I feel like that's a

947
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:25,360
Speaker 3: totally fair interpretation of that. Again, the movie is based

948
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 3: on source material that was published before and also, like

949
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 3: vampire Law in general, existed long before this. But like,

950
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 3: I can see that as like a read of like I.

951
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: Can see that as a read of the movie.

952
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: But yeah, right, yeah, So I don't know if I

953
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 3: actually posed a question that I said I was going

954
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 3: to it at that point, but I just wanted to

955
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 3: share some of my thoughts around.

956
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 5: That it's interesting to think about. I won't talk about

957
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 5: the show too much because I do think it's very

958
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 5: much its own thing, but I think in the film

959
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 5: armand is sort of meant to be the tethered version

960
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 5: of Lestott.

961
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 6: He's the better version of Lustot.

962
00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 5: He's the more kind of like teachable, interested party who

963
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:14,239
Speaker 5: could be with Louis, but it eventually doesn't work out

964
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 5: because Louis like never can get over the death of Claudia.

965
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 5: I think where the show really takes the themes that

966
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 5: you pose, Caitlin and makes them significantly, I think, more

967
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 5: layered and more interesting and obviously they have more time,

968
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 5: is that Louis is canonically a gay man and Lestott

969
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 5: is canonically I think he describes himself as non discriminatory,

970
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 5: like he's canonically by a slash pan sexual. He's pan

971
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 5: and that is something that gets brought up and is

972
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 5: basically like played back and forth between them. Is that

973
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 5: one of the main reasons that Louis is staying with

974
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 5: Lestott is because he knows that it's pretty rare that

975
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 5: he's going to be able to find a relationship with

976
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,880
Speaker 5: another man where the other man is fine with not

977
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 5: hiding it and how important that is to him. And

978
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 5: I think they're sort of shades of that of the movie.

979
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 5: I mean, they do live together, they move in together,

980
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 5: everyone thinks of them as an item of platonic or not.

981
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: They're raising a child.

982
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 6: They're raising a child together.

983
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 5: I love that scene where they're trying, God, they're having

984
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,760
Speaker 5: Claudia try on dresses, and they're just like running around

985
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 5: with all the fabric and the lights and the plants,

986
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 5: like they're living their best lives. But I think that

987
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 5: that sort of that sort of softens the read. In

988
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 5: my opinion is that like it starts out as a

989
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 5: usually beneficial relationship that descends into a very toxic, abusive relationship,

990
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 5: but that at the beginning they do both give something

991
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 5: to each other that the other one that they can't

992
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 5: have alone.

993
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 6: Yeah.

994
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:58,920
Speaker 3: A couple of other things I wanted to point out

995
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: about the series versus the movie, at least is in

996
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 3: the series, the Louis character is black played by Jacob Anderson,

997
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 3: and Lestat turns him into a vampire in nineteen ten Louisiana.

998
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,479
Speaker 3: So the show explores a lot of themes surrounding race

999
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 3: and racism during Jim Crow era South in a way

1000
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 3: that I think is a smart update from the way

1001
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 3: the movie handles huge enslaved people and race in that regard,

1002
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 3: because I mean, just shout out to Sandy Way Newton,

1003
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 3: who plays Yvette and is credited in such a way

1004
00:55:38,840 --> 00:55:40,319
Speaker 3: that I thought she was going to be a much

1005
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 3: more significant character. But she's only in two quick scenes

1006
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 3: and then she's killed, and then she's killed, and before that,

1007
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 3: it's like a portrayal of an enslaved person who seems

1008
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,719
Speaker 3: to like love her enslaver and is concerned about his

1009
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 3: well being. And then he she's the first person that

1010
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 3: he kills. I believe because prior to that he's like, no,

1011
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 3: I'm not going to kill anybody.

1012
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: That was pretty despicable. The way that the movie frames

1013
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: race in general, like there's it's I would guess they

1014
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:22,040
Speaker 1: were going for ambiguity, which feels so and that is

1015
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,319
Speaker 1: not successful either, because all of the enslaved characters are

1016
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 1: presented as like we like Brad Pitt, You're like, there's

1017
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 1: no one who has actually characterized. This is also true

1018
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: of the book. We have no indication in the present

1019
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: or the past that any of the white characters or

1020
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: any of the vampires have any issue. Like it's just

1021
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,680
Speaker 1: presented very matter of factly in a way that feels

1022
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: just like deeply gross and unnecessary. Obviously, you cannot make

1023
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: a movie or any work of fiction in this place,

1024
00:56:57,040 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: in this time that doesn't acknowledge slavery. But it's so

1025
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 1: extraordinarily poorly that in the movie, Like when I was

1026
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 1: reading the book, the fact that there there was like

1027
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:15,480
Speaker 1: a passage where Louis basically says I was wrong to

1028
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: have He never even says he was wrong to have

1029
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 1: enslaved people. He's just like I was wrong to have

1030
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: underestimated enslaved people's intelligence. Like that's as close as you

1031
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: get to an outright condemnation of slavery. And there's I

1032
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: don't know the way that this movie both presents slavery

1033
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 1: in some of the most stereotypically harmful ways that you

1034
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 1: could draw a direct line back to Gone with the Wind.

1035
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: And this also reminds me, hasn't anyone have ever seen?

1036
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: There is a really great video essay from Princess Weeks

1037
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:48,520
Speaker 1: about Confederacy vampires.

1038
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,640
Speaker 6: Yes, also I love Princess Weeks so much.

1039
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 1: He's fan.

1040
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:58,120
Speaker 5: It is an excellent video because why is it so pervasive?

1041
00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:02,400
Speaker 1: It's really Yeah, we'll in the description it's I've rewatched it.

1042
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 5: I think it's it's True Blood, Vampire Diaries, Twilight. Yes,

1043
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 5: you can group this if you're talking about the Confederacy

1044
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 5: as not like the actual Confederacy army, but like so interesting.

1045
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:19,800
Speaker 1: All of these vampire franchises feature vampires who are sympathetic,

1046
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: lovable characters who are white vampires who fought for the

1047
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: South in the Civil War. It is a wild through line,

1048
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:35,000
Speaker 1: and Princess in rewatching this video sort of speculates that

1049
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: at least some of this has to do with the

1050
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:43,160
Speaker 1: popularity of Interview with the Vampire, and she includes the

1051
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: same passage that I'm talking about, where you know, the

1052
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 1: absolute barest minimum is done by Anne Rice in text

1053
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: to be like, well, slavery was bad, obviously, and Louis

1054
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 1: knows that now, but that's it, and you know, then

1055
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: goes on to make the argument that future vampire adaptations

1056
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 1: did even less and very much presented like Jasper Cullen

1057
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: bravely fought for the South, you know, in the Twilight franchise,

1058
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:17,520
Speaker 1: and so that future adaptations got even more regressive. It

1059
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 1: is a very fucked up and bizarrely consistent trope that

1060
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: appears in vampire media of at least the last fifty years,

1061
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 1: and it seems to at least have some roots here. Yeah,

1062
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: I like this. I'm glad that the series has made

1063
00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: serious changes and changes also has changed the time period

1064
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,400
Speaker 1: that it's taking place in pretty significantly.

1065
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it brings out the themes in such a

1066
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 5: more interesting way. Like similarly, the Louis character. He finds

1067
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,840
Speaker 5: this newfound power in being a vampire, but also still feels,

1068
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,600
Speaker 5: of course like the same imbalance of power in Jim

1069
01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 5: Crow New Orleans, with him still being a black man,

1070
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 5: but then has the power to overpower people that are

1071
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 5: being racist to him, but also can't give away the

1072
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 5: fact that he's a vampire. It just makes it so

1073
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 5: much more complicated and makes his kind of like sad

1074
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 5: boy demeanor what's more textured and layered than this movie,

1075
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,160
Speaker 5: because I think this movie does dirty by the character

1076
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 5: of Louis, not necessarily by like Brad Pitt, but like

1077
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 5: by his character because he's who we got, He's who

1078
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:42,040
Speaker 5: we got to tether ourselves to. I mean, as a result,

1079
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 5: I think that Kirsten Dunst is unquestionably the standout performance

1080
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 5: of the film. And I almost can't even watch the

1081
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 5: scene where she gets burned to Chris because I love

1082
01:00:54,640 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 5: her so much and I think that she's like the

1083
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 5: best character in the movie, and she's probably will of course,

1084
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 5: she has the advantage of being a child, so we

1085
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,480
Speaker 5: let her show tantrums and not understand what's happening. But

1086
01:01:06,920 --> 01:01:09,080
Speaker 5: she's the one who I'm like, I feel I feel

1087
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 5: like you're really really dimensional.

1088
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 4: She's like kind of the most nuanced to her as well.

1089
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 7: It's like, even though she is a baby girl, she

1090
01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,880
Speaker 7: does like love killing and she loves murdering, and I

1091
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 7: think that's puts a fun dynamic because you have Lestat

1092
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 7: who is even a little bit like Simmere down like

1093
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 7: you're going too far, and that kind of interplay there

1094
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 7: is really fun. But then she has the more close

1095
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 7: tether to Brad Pitt as a father, So like the

1096
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:38,960
Speaker 7: intersection there is interesting, like the tug of war at

1097
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:39,840
Speaker 7: her as a character.

1098
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 5: Brad Head has that line where it's like I saw

1099
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 5: her as a daughter, but Lstat saw her as a pupil, right,

1100
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 5: but that she also doesn't want to be thought of

1101
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 5: as a child. The age thing is interesting because I

1102
01:01:50,480 --> 01:01:52,240
Speaker 5: think in the book she's really young.

1103
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: She's like five vibe.

1104
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, so she is a demon toddler and in the

1105
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 5: terrifying in the show, I would soon because they don't

1106
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 5: want to cast someone who's under eighteen. She's probably like fifteen, fourteen, fifteen.

1107
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, they age her up in the show. They cast

1108
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 3: an actor who's a teenager, although she's kind of acting

1109
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 3: more like a ten year old, So I don't know

1110
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 3: if they're like trying to convince the audience that she's ten,

1111
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 3: the way that Little Women tried to convince us that

1112
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,680
Speaker 3: Florence Pugh is twelve.

1113
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 4: But holding a sign.

1114
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 3: Twelve I'm twelve saying there was I was getting really

1115
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:35,800
Speaker 3: nervous about the relationship between Claudia and her two father

1116
01:02:35,920 --> 01:02:39,040
Speaker 3: figures where I was like, oh, no, are they going

1117
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:40,760
Speaker 3: to start? Is this movie going to start? Because I

1118
01:02:40,800 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 3: again I didn't really remember much about it, but I

1119
01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 3: was like, are they going to start to suggest that

1120
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 3: like they're like grooming her to be their lover or

1121
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 3: is there going to be some really disgusting, like child

1122
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 3: sex abuse kind of thing happening. And there is a

1123
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:02,000
Speaker 3: moment where Armand is like, oh, Claudia is your lover, right, Louie,

1124
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 3: and He's like, no, she's my daughter.

1125
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 1: Well, but also Kirsten Dunst kisses Brad Pitt on the

1126
01:03:08,920 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 1: Lifts as an eleven year old in this movie, which

1127
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: she later took severe public issue with and a lot

1128
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: of people gave her shit about. But there was I

1129
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 1: was going back and watching the press tour, which is

1130
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 1: like normal to do.

1131
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 6: But yeah, I do think it's normal to do.

1132
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 5: I think it's so odd because I think that, like

1133
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 5: I would interpret that as like a kind of just

1134
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 5: fatherly kiss, but then it that's not how AWAYS interpreted.

1135
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess I would. I would say I do

1136
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: think that. Maybe it's like because the book also seems

1137
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: to be playing on what the movie is playing less on,

1138
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,680
Speaker 1: and I think smartly so. But like in the book,

1139
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: he like Louie is like I love her like a

1140
01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: daughter and I'm in love with her. It's leaning into that,

1141
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: and you know, I don't, to my not fifty four

1142
01:03:56,760 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 1: percent of the way into the book at one point

1143
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: nine speed, there is no it's it's all coded as

1144
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: an emotional attachment and it's not physical, thankfully, but that

1145
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 1: is that's not shied away from that. It's like, well,

1146
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 1: what is this relationship? Because I think and the book

1147
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,360
Speaker 1: really you know, reminds you, well, actually she's been alive

1148
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: for sixty five years. Anyways, I want to just shout

1149
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 1: out the Yeah, the Kirsten Dunst interviews, because I watched

1150
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:28,600
Speaker 1: like a lot of the original press run for this movie,

1151
01:04:28,800 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 1: and even like as a kid, like they were like,

1152
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: what was your favorite part? And she's like killing people

1153
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: and they're like, what's your wan his favorite part? And

1154
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: she was like kissing Brad Pit. But she she said,

1155
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 1: I hated the kiss so much because Brad was like

1156
01:04:40,440 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: my older brother on set, and it's like kissing your brother.

1157
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: It's weird because he's thirty one and I had to

1158
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: kiss him on the lips, so it was gross and

1159
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:49,960
Speaker 1: you're like, yeah, don't make an eleven year lad do that.

1160
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 1: Don't do that, And which was like further made weird

1161
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: in on the press tour because everyone she said that

1162
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,479
Speaker 1: to as a twelve year old was like, you should

1163
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 1: love kissing Brad Pitt. She was like, oh my god.

1164
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,720
Speaker 1: To her credit, she was like, well I don't because

1165
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: I'm twelve, and they were like good. Oh.

1166
01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:10,080
Speaker 6: People were so weird to her on this press stur What.

1167
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 7: A horrible time for press conferences like that era too,

1168
01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:17,280
Speaker 7: specifically is like the nineties through early two thousands of

1169
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 7: people's views on like what they can and shouldn't say

1170
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 7: in press stuff is just.

1171
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 5: Kids, especially child Yeah, I feel like Natalie Portman went

1172
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 5: through it a lot during Phantom Menace and I.

1173
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:34,240
Speaker 6: H yeah, even earlier.

1174
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, even with it's interesting with the Claudia too, because

1175
01:05:37,840 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 7: she is so clearly based in like An talked about

1176
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 7: it being based on the death of her daughter, and

1177
01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 7: like the book originated as like a form of grieving

1178
01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 7: the loss of.

1179
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 1: Her daughter, who died of a blood related disease, right,

1180
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: So it's.

1181
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 7: Like, it's just so interesting that the intricacies around the

1182
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:56,800
Speaker 7: character with regards to that, when you know that it

1183
01:05:56,880 --> 01:06:00,480
Speaker 7: is basically a stand in for her own child, just

1184
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,880
Speaker 7: an interesting kind of thing to write to have like

1185
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 7: the child then be you know, bloodthirsty.

1186
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 1: That's why I was expected, like when Claudia was introduced,

1187
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: to have a lot more to say critically about that character.

1188
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: But it's just like, I don't know. I I think

1189
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 1: in general, do not have a child kiss an adult

1190
01:06:21,680 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 1: man on the mouth in a movie is an easy

1191
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:29,040
Speaker 1: and correct criticism to make of any movie, particularly if

1192
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 1: that kiss is supposed to be ambiguous gross, right, But

1193
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 1: as far as like I just don't feel Yeah, I

1194
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,640
Speaker 1: don't really feel comfortable critiquing Anne Rice is writing there

1195
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:40,360
Speaker 1: because it's just so deeply personal to her own life

1196
01:06:40,560 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: and like her sorting shit out that Yeah. Especially yeah,

1197
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: because in the book that's why Claudia's is five years old,

1198
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,800
Speaker 1: because her daughter was five years old, and so it's

1199
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,560
Speaker 1: so personal that I just, you know, I can. I

1200
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,720
Speaker 1: can criticize Anne Rise all day for making a sympathetic

1201
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:04,480
Speaker 1: planation owner her protagonist, but as far as Claudia goes,

1202
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, I I have no comment. That

1203
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:13,479
Speaker 1: was her her processing one of the most traumatic things

1204
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 1: I can imagine going through.

1205
01:07:16,120 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 5: I'm so fascinated by the character of Claudia. I love

1206
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 5: her as a character because, like I mentioned, you forgive

1207
01:07:24,080 --> 01:07:26,680
Speaker 5: a lot of the instincts that she has because she's

1208
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 5: eternally trapped in this like arrested development adolescence.

1209
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 6: But I also love.

1210
01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:38,000
Speaker 5: How as her mind grows and she becomes like a

1211
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 5: full adult mentally, she understands Lestatt and Louis arguably better

1212
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 5: than they understand each other for themselves. When she brings

1213
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 5: Madeline to Louis, I had completely forgotten it, and I

1214
01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 5: thought that she was like, here, you need a new companion.

1215
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 5: So I brought you this adult woman so that we

1216
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 5: can be a family again. And instead she like, listen, man,

1217
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,560
Speaker 5: I know you're gonna run away with armand so if

1218
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 5: you could make me a new mother figure but for you,

1219
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 5: or run off with your new man, I would appreciate that.

1220
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 7: And like, Brad can't get into turning this woman. Like

1221
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 7: even when he does, you read on his face that

1222
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 7: this is not an enjoyable experience, whereas everything with Lestat

1223
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:24,560
Speaker 7: or our Mond is much more entertaining for him.

1224
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, erotic even.

1225
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's like, Eh, this lady has cooties. Yes, I

1226
01:08:30,200 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 3: don't want to touch her.

1227
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 7: I'm hundreds of years old and I still think girls

1228
01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 7: they have cooties.

1229
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:37,000
Speaker 6: He does not.

1230
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 5: Other than the scene that we discussed, he's very much

1231
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 5: not interested in women at all. Lestott is the one

1232
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 5: who's like, let's meet up with some New Orleans sex

1233
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:50,559
Speaker 5: workers and we can murder them because no one will

1234
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 5: know or care.

1235
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 3: I did want to talk about like who the victims

1236
01:08:56,800 --> 01:09:01,160
Speaker 3: often are? Oh yeah, Listat and kind of by proxy,

1237
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:05,960
Speaker 3: Louis because it's mostly women, many of whom are Black women,

1238
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:10,479
Speaker 3: many of whom are sex workers. Their deaths are often

1239
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 3: very sexualized. It kind of the movie frames like, wow,

1240
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:20,000
Speaker 3: look how sensual it is when they murder these women.

1241
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 3: And I mean, I'm fine with the part where they

1242
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,760
Speaker 3: target that rich woman who had someone else kill her

1243
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 3: husband and then she blamed it on an enslaved black person,

1244
01:09:30,560 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 3: and then it's implied that the enslaved person was killed

1245
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 3: because of it. Do the thing where you kill other

1246
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:41,320
Speaker 3: bad people. But the movie is like very uncritical of

1247
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:47,520
Speaker 3: any time they are targeting innocent black women, innocent sex workers.

1248
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:48,920
Speaker 6: Well, I guess etc.

1249
01:09:49,320 --> 01:09:52,280
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think I wish that if

1250
01:09:52,320 --> 01:09:55,519
Speaker 1: we had seen all of these highly sexualized killings, we

1251
01:09:55,560 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: had seen it across the board, you know what I mean,

1252
01:09:58,280 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 1: because like, yeah, because it's not like I don't know,

1253
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: I can't I can't safely say like I wish they

1254
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,200
Speaker 1: killed less people. I just wish they killed a wider

1255
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 1: variety of people, because yeah, it did feel pointed that

1256
01:10:10,840 --> 01:10:16,599
Speaker 1: there it was hyper fixated on women, specifically poor women

1257
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:17,800
Speaker 1: and often black women.

1258
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:22,599
Speaker 6: There's the one golden youth who he kills. Yes, yeah,

1259
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 6: but it's not the same.

1260
01:10:24,560 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 1: It just feels like I think in the book and

1261
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,240
Speaker 1: I don't it was like it felt like it was

1262
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:34,640
Speaker 1: made explicit that listat was evil and targeting people that

1263
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:38,519
Speaker 1: he found vulnerable and that was why he was choosing

1264
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: his victims in the way that he was, And it

1265
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,720
Speaker 1: was at least written that it was like, and this

1266
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,479
Speaker 1: is a horrible thing that he's doing by specifically targeting

1267
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 1: the most vulnerable people, he can find people he perceives

1268
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: as people who will not be missed by society, and

1269
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: then he would let himself have an aristocrat, an aristocrat,

1270
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 1: an aristocrat, So.

1271
01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,720
Speaker 3: May okay, Disney movie Alert.

1272
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: We could have the little kitten from the Aristicats as

1273
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,679
Speaker 1: a treat, but like an aristocrat would be a treat

1274
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,519
Speaker 1: because that would pose a higher risk of exposure for

1275
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,400
Speaker 1: them in the movie, that's not made it clear at all,

1276
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,160
Speaker 1: and it's made more seen as just like a buffet

1277
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,559
Speaker 1: of vulnerable people that the camera is highly eroticizing. And

1278
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: it's just like, if you're going to go for I

1279
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,839
Speaker 1: feel like, if you're going to go for erotic kills

1280
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: in your movie, you cannot focus specifically on historically marginalized people,

1281
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't work.

1282
01:11:36,600 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, not unless there's you know, active commentary being

1283
01:11:39,960 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 3: made about those power dynamics, which this movie isn't making.

1284
01:11:44,400 --> 01:11:45,840
Speaker 7: I mean, there's a lot to you could also read

1285
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 7: into it too. It's like when you have two gay

1286
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,800
Speaker 7: men at the center, there's the intersection of you know,

1287
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:56,800
Speaker 7: the gay male, you know, internalized misogyny or you know,

1288
01:11:56,880 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 7: like the interplay between like a gender there. But like

1289
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 7: obviously that's not what the movie is going for or

1290
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:04,400
Speaker 7: what the text is. But like there is again like

1291
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:06,800
Speaker 7: these implicit reads that you look at the movie just

1292
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 7: because it is like mostly women who are the ones

1293
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,720
Speaker 7: that are dying, but like the two guys are like, well,

1294
01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:14,880
Speaker 7: we can kill them easily, no one will care. But

1295
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 7: we don't have that line or anything to then dig

1296
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:18,720
Speaker 7: into that.

1297
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: I also just don't understand why they were specifically targeting women.

1298
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, like I guess in the movie, like

1299
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 1: Westad's motivation for specifically focusing on women was not entirely

1300
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 1: clear to me.

1301
01:12:34,920 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 5: I think it's a I think it's a movie thing.

1302
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:41,959
Speaker 5: It feels like, well, of course we got butts and seats,

1303
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:45,719
Speaker 5: We're going to give them some sensual bloody ladies.

1304
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's find an excuse to show some boobs on screen. Yeah,

1305
01:12:50,240 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 3: and again in the way that we've talked about on

1306
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 3: the podcast before, as far as so many horror movies

1307
01:12:57,800 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 3: sexualizing violence against women, Like we talked about this a

1308
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 3: lot on the like Cabin in the Woods episode, but

1309
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 3: there have been different like slasher movies and just horror

1310
01:13:07,240 --> 01:13:09,839
Speaker 3: movies in general that are so guilty of this, where

1311
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 3: it's like reveling in a sexual way in violence enacted

1312
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 3: against women, and it feels like that's happening to a

1313
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 3: very large degree in this movie. This is neither here

1314
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 3: nor there, But I did want to point out some

1315
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:33,719
Speaker 3: striking similarities between Interview with the Vampire and Monsters Inc.

1316
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:35,920
Speaker 3: Which we just covered.

1317
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 1: On the Matren.

1318
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 3: Okay, both movies feature two men who live together who

1319
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:51,360
Speaker 3: come upon a little girl and become her surrogate parents.

1320
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 3: And one of the dads has like a closer bond

1321
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 3: to the little girl and like really connects with her,

1322
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 3: and then all to they part ways again. That's pretty

1323
01:14:04,479 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 3: much where the similarities start and stop.

1324
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:12,439
Speaker 1: But true though, it's so pretty good, thank you so much.

1325
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 6: What I'm hearing is Monsters Inc. Queer Quadrant.

1326
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,679
Speaker 4: It's actually it's on the list.

1327
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: I have it, Mike and Sully. I mean, I mean,

1328
01:14:24,880 --> 01:14:26,280
Speaker 1: that was the conclusion we came to.

1329
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, every two person podcasts is inherently a Mike and Sully,

1330
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,040
Speaker 7: you know, like there's two mics and two Sally as always.

1331
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, yes, it's true. The other silly little

1332
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 3: observation I'd like to point out is Louise's full name

1333
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:47,160
Speaker 3: is Louis DuPont du Lock du Lock. You mean the

1334
01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,200
Speaker 3: Kingdom from Shrek one.

1335
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:53,479
Speaker 1: That's the power of David geff It.

1336
01:14:53,479 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 4: It is a perfect place.

1337
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,719
Speaker 3: Oh wow, it really is. I love that little song.

1338
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 4: It's so good me.

1339
01:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: Too, well, well spotted, well spotted, Thank you so much.

1340
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,120
Speaker 3: Well, they don't mention his full name in the movie,

1341
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:11,679
Speaker 3: but they say it all the time in the series,

1342
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,480
Speaker 3: because they're always saying like mister Dulac, and I'm like, okay,

1343
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:19,880
Speaker 3: Shrek much you can't escape it anyway. Does anyone have

1344
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 3: anything else they'd like to discuss?

1345
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 5: My only silly little observation is that this is a

1346
01:15:26,040 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 5: movie about boys with feelings, but it is once.

1347
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:32,519
Speaker 6: Not a movie about fathers andselves.

1348
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: Exactly about fathers and daughters.

1349
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 7: I will say, on the horror of it all, like

1350
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,799
Speaker 7: the Stan Winston makeup, and like the horror design Tom

1351
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 7: and when he's in the chair looking decrepit, af that

1352
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,720
Speaker 7: is really really good stuff.

1353
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 3: Good stuff. I was just reading about Stan Winston because

1354
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:57,120
Speaker 3: he did the tank on Tank Girl. Yeah, for the

1355
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:03,440
Speaker 3: like the Kangaroo people. Also, when Anne Rice was considering

1356
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:08,880
Speaker 3: changing the gender of the Louie character in a draft

1357
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:12,599
Speaker 3: of the script. Also worth noting that the director Neil

1358
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 3: Jordan wrote a draft of the script and is uncredited,

1359
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:19,559
Speaker 3: and it's not super clear. I couldn't find any sort

1360
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 3: of clarity as far as like what draft ended up

1361
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,160
Speaker 3: being shot, like how much of it was Anne Rice's

1362
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 3: original draft, how much of it was the director's. Not

1363
01:16:29,400 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 3: super clear, but just wanted to point that out. But so,

1364
01:16:33,439 --> 01:16:37,360
Speaker 3: when Anne Rice was considering having the Louie character be

1365
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 3: a woman, Cher was considered for the role, and she

1366
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 3: co wrote a song entitled Lovers Forever along with Shirley

1367
01:16:48,120 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 3: Eckhart for the soundtrack of the film. Cher obviously didn't

1368
01:16:52,439 --> 01:16:56,240
Speaker 3: end up getting the part, although a dance pop version

1369
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:00,680
Speaker 3: of that song was released on a share album many

1370
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:06,640
Speaker 3: years later. Twenty years later on the twenty thirteen album

1371
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:11,040
Speaker 3: Closer to the Truth. So that's a little fun fact.

1372
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:11,880
Speaker 4: I have a question.

1373
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:15,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, just you know, let's say we have to stratify it,

1374
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,840
Speaker 7: which like boo, we don't like doing that, but like, yay,

1375
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 7: if we have to do it, I feel like.

1376
01:17:20,840 --> 01:17:22,840
Speaker 4: Share would be incredible in.

1377
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,080
Speaker 6: This Share is the gayest possible.

1378
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: Right, but exacts the gayest straight you can guess, right, yeah,

1379
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:29,639
Speaker 1: but like.

1380
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:33,679
Speaker 7: Imagine that flow just flying through the air, like blood,

1381
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:35,840
Speaker 7: you know, coming down her face.

1382
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:40,520
Speaker 5: And she probably has six inches on Tom crab Absolutely.

1383
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:41,120
Speaker 1: Oh my god, love that.

1384
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, if we kind of gayify it in a

1385
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 3: different direction, if it's Share, and then like Angelica Houston

1386
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 3: as Lestat.

1387
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,879
Speaker 5: Oh yes, yes, this is making me want to rewatch

1388
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:57,599
Speaker 5: The Hunger with Daviavill and Seusan Sarandon, which is another

1389
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:00,879
Speaker 5: great Oh it's very queer a fire movie.

1390
01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 6: It's okay, It's okay. I love that. I would immediately

1391
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 6: watch that.

1392
01:18:05,720 --> 01:18:10,040
Speaker 3: Oh wow, does anyone have anything else they'd like to say?

1393
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 3: Slash the movie? Does does it pass the Bechdel test?

1394
01:18:14,120 --> 01:18:15,160
Speaker 3: I didn't even pay attention.

1395
01:18:15,280 --> 01:18:15,880
Speaker 1: I don't think so.

1396
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:16,479
Speaker 4: I don't think.

1397
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:17,360
Speaker 6: I don't think so.

1398
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 5: Maybe on a technicality between Madeline and Claudia, but but

1399
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 5: it's a maybe. I was watching and looking for it,

1400
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 5: and I'm not sure.

1401
01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:27,919
Speaker 6: I'm not convinced.

1402
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 1: Spiritually, No, we'll say no to that.

1403
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 3: As far as our nipple scale, though, rating this movie

1404
01:18:33,680 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 3: on a scale of zero to five nipples based on

1405
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 3: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens.

1406
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1407
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 3: It's tricky because like this has such a legacy as

1408
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:48,559
Speaker 3: far as like it's it's queer reads and following and

1409
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:52,439
Speaker 3: fan base, and I think that's always a beautiful thing.

1410
01:18:52,560 --> 01:18:56,040
Speaker 3: But there's also like the actual text that we're working

1411
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:00,559
Speaker 3: with leaves a lot to be desired, obviously mends the

1412
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 3: portrayal of enslaved people really horribly. There's a quick shot

1413
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,800
Speaker 3: of characters practicing what I'm assuming is supposed to be

1414
01:19:10,120 --> 01:19:14,559
Speaker 3: voodoo practices, but it's the very you know, stereotyped, false

1415
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:21,679
Speaker 3: version of the voodoo religion. The explicitly queer relationship between

1416
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:25,439
Speaker 3: Louis and armand that was in the source material being

1417
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:31,680
Speaker 3: erased from the movie. That's very frustrating. But also it's

1418
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:36,200
Speaker 3: a movie that explores a dynamic between two men Louis

1419
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 3: and Lestat, who are sometimes suckling on each other and

1420
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 3: sometimes they're raising a child together. And there's something very

1421
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:52,040
Speaker 3: interesting and like weirdly unusual about that in mainstream cinema.

1422
01:19:52,120 --> 01:19:54,320
Speaker 3: Because this was a huge hit, Like it was a

1423
01:19:54,360 --> 01:19:57,759
Speaker 3: box office smash. It was like pretty critically well reviewed,

1424
01:19:57,800 --> 01:20:00,559
Speaker 3: but like commercially it was it was a pretty big hits.

1425
01:20:00,600 --> 01:20:03,599
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I think there's something really interesting

1426
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,920
Speaker 3: about that. And I guess most of my nippleedge goes

1427
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 3: to the fact that it has this like this queer following,

1428
01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 3: but I would give the series a much higher nipple rating. Again,

1429
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 3: I'm not that far into it, but if you like

1430
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:20,240
Speaker 3: this movie and you but you want something more, I

1431
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,439
Speaker 3: would suggest checking out the series.

1432
01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to meet you at too as well. Yeah,

1433
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:30,960
Speaker 1: I think that this movie is like so like pleasantly

1434
01:20:31,040 --> 01:20:35,760
Speaker 1: surprisingly overtly queer for the time it's coming out in

1435
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:38,960
Speaker 1: while still not being as queer as the source material,

1436
01:20:39,000 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 1: which feels rare. And I always appreciate when a work

1437
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:49,479
Speaker 1: is so open to being adapted more responsibly to match

1438
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,360
Speaker 1: the times. It seems like for the most part it

1439
01:20:52,400 --> 01:20:55,720
Speaker 1: was like really well received, which a lot of franchises

1440
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:58,880
Speaker 1: you do not get that with. And yeah, I mean,

1441
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 1: as far as this specific goes, it is so campy

1442
01:21:03,640 --> 01:21:08,240
Speaker 1: and it is about two gay vampire dads raising their

1443
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:13,840
Speaker 1: braddy daughter Like it's awesome and it also deals with race,

1444
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: I think tremendously badly. It doesn't have a very high

1445
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 1: opinion of women either outside of just Kirsten Dunst right,

1446
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:22,679
Speaker 1: And so that is why I am going to zone

1447
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:27,120
Speaker 1: in at two. I'm going to give one to Anne Rice.

1448
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:29,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to give the other to Oprah Winfrey for

1449
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: leaving the movie due to the dark forces that it

1450
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:34,519
Speaker 1: was introdesting in the first ten minutes.

1451
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 3: Of course, of course.

1452
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,840
Speaker 7: That's with all of our podcast steps, a dark force

1453
01:21:38,000 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 7: just inherently there.

1454
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you stop listening after ten minutes because of

1455
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 1: dark forces, you know, you can't blame you.

1456
01:21:46,200 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 3: Jordan, how about you.

1457
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,599
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go a little into the San Francisco sky.

1458
01:21:50,720 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 4: I'm going to go with three.

1459
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 7: And I think it's just because I like the the queerness.

1460
01:21:56,080 --> 01:21:57,840
Speaker 4: I think just works for me.

1461
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 7: And I think that's just I think, you know what

1462
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 7: two and a half, how about that?

1463
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 4: That feels nice?

1464
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 7: Half a nipple? You know, it's like a baby nip.

1465
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 7: I think it's just because there is just so much

1466
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 7: I think when we first covered the movie, I wasn't

1467
01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 7: sure how queer it was going to be, just because

1468
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 7: I had never seen the movie. Was aware of it,

1469
01:22:17,880 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 7: but watching even watching it again, it is overwhelming how

1470
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 7: much there is in there. And I think just for

1471
01:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 7: our podcast and just for me in general, seeing something

1472
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 7: with that rich of a text made by a studio

1473
01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 7: at that point in time is always super refreshing. Even

1474
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,479
Speaker 7: if it had you know, there is a lot that

1475
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,360
Speaker 7: doesn't work about the movie, there's a lot that sometimes does,

1476
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:42,759
Speaker 7: and so I think, like, to be you know, true

1477
01:22:42,800 --> 01:22:45,479
Speaker 7: to myself, I would have to give it that that's

1478
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 7: how many nips, you know, maybe a nip for the

1479
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:51,120
Speaker 7: sky floating, a nip for Christian Slater cruising, you know,

1480
01:22:51,920 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 7: why not?

1481
01:22:52,880 --> 01:22:53,240
Speaker 1: Why not?

1482
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:54,200
Speaker 6: I think that's fair.

1483
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 3: Oh beautiful, Yeah, broke, how about you.

1484
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 5: I'm also going to give this one too, because I

1485
01:23:01,479 --> 01:23:05,360
Speaker 5: do think that it's it's a pretty audacious movie for

1486
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 5: the time, and yet again Norm McDonald, he sums it

1487
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 5: up somehow still not gay enough, and I think that

1488
01:23:13,240 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 5: is what always held us back, Jordan from being like,

1489
01:23:15,800 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 5: can't we can't fully stay exactly even though we.

1490
01:23:19,040 --> 01:23:20,599
Speaker 4: Might want to right there.

1491
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,160
Speaker 5: But I love what this movie has done for the

1492
01:23:24,240 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 5: vampire genre as a whole and the series that it's

1493
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,839
Speaker 5: led to. I totally agree Kaitlin, Like, I cannot recommend

1494
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 5: the series highly enough. It's my favorite thing on TV

1495
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 5: right now. It's so funny, it's so like textually rich,

1496
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:43,840
Speaker 5: everyone is beautiful, and it's extremely like sexually explicit in

1497
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,080
Speaker 5: a good way.

1498
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 6: It really textualizes the subtext.

1499
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 5: But I think that I do love the sort of

1500
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 5: dramatic Koy way that the subtext is handled here. You

1501
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,520
Speaker 5: just wish that the movie had more of an intersectional

1502
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 5: view too, if it's going to be like leaning into

1503
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,080
Speaker 5: vampires in this way, leaning into like the marginalization and

1504
01:24:05,120 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 5: the outside, you know, sort of ideation that these vampires experience,

1505
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 5: and it feels like it just cracks open the door,

1506
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 5: but it doesn't really open it all the way. So

1507
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,120
Speaker 5: for that reason, I'm going to give it two nipples.

1508
01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:23,680
Speaker 5: I give one to Kirsten Dunce's beautiful curls. I give

1509
01:24:23,760 --> 01:24:27,920
Speaker 5: the other to Antonio Vanderis's wig. Whether it deserves it

1510
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:30,200
Speaker 5: or not, I just I don't know if it's good

1511
01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:32,360
Speaker 5: or bad, but I can't stop thinking about it.

1512
01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 3: So it's flowy, it's long.

1513
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:35,160
Speaker 6: It is.

1514
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,080
Speaker 4: Proper to describe it.

1515
01:24:41,400 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 3: Oh well, thank you so much both of you for

1516
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:47,840
Speaker 3: for coming on the show. Tell us about your podcast

1517
01:24:48,160 --> 01:24:51,760
Speaker 3: and where people can listen to it, and anything else

1518
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:52,559
Speaker 3: you'd like to plug.

1519
01:24:53,120 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 5: Well, we're so honored that you had us on, especially

1520
01:24:56,360 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 5: for ye Old Pride Month, which is currently happening. It's

1521
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 5: month all year on the Queer Quadrant, but this month especially,

1522
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 5: we want to be highlighting organizations that are doing things and.

1523
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:11,639
Speaker 6: Making a difference to the community and also to the world.

1524
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:14,559
Speaker 5: So every episode you listen to this month, you'll hear

1525
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:16,879
Speaker 5: a little extra something about the orcs we're supporting.

1526
01:25:17,439 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 6: We release episodes every two.

1527
01:25:20,200 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 5: Weeks on your favorite four Quadrant blockbusters that may not

1528
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,000
Speaker 5: be as straight as you think they are. I cannot,

1529
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:30,120
Speaker 5: in good conscious recommend our early interview with the Vampire episode.

1530
01:25:30,160 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 5: I mean, like, listen at your own risk.

1531
01:25:32,160 --> 01:25:36,679
Speaker 7: But I can recommend Caitlin coming on for Hobbs and Shops.

1532
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 6: Hobbs and Shop pretty good. I also I have to

1533
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:41,480
Speaker 6: recommend the Titanic.

1534
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:44,200
Speaker 3: Episode to Jamie was there as well.

1535
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:46,880
Speaker 6: Jamie was there, It was it was a good time.

1536
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:52,519
Speaker 5: But we're mostly floating around the internet on Twitter and

1537
01:25:52,680 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 5: Instagram and letterbox. I'm at brookby Solomon and together we're

1538
01:25:57,200 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 5: at Queer Quadrant. You can find the Queer Quadrant on Spotify,

1539
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 5: on Apple, wherever you get your podcasts. Give us a

1540
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:05,000
Speaker 5: tweet or a DM and tell us what you might

1541
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 5: like to see us cover in the future. We always

1542
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 5: want to hear about your gay takes.

1543
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,839
Speaker 3: Love it, Oh my gosh, thank you again. Come back anytime.

1544
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:17,080
Speaker 3: And Jamie had to leave listeners, so I'll just give

1545
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:21,480
Speaker 3: the plugs real quick. You can listen to our Matreon

1546
01:26:21,560 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 3: episodes at Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you

1547
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 3: get two bonus episodes every month for five bucks and

1548
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:35,479
Speaker 3: it's always centering around some hilarious, awesome theme. You can

1549
01:26:35,479 --> 01:26:40,120
Speaker 3: follow us on mostly Instagram these days at Bechdel Cast,

1550
01:26:40,280 --> 01:26:44,479
Speaker 3: and then you can scoot over to tepublic dot com

1551
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 3: slash the Bechdel Cast for our merch You can check

1552
01:26:48,320 --> 01:26:51,519
Speaker 3: out our link tree link tree slash Bechdel Cast for

1553
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:56,599
Speaker 3: some goodies over there, including our letterboxed and yeah, with that,

1554
01:26:57,400 --> 01:27:04,440
Speaker 3: should we go fly around and look for people to yet?

1555
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:05,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, because we're.

1556
01:27:05,840 --> 01:27:11,120
Speaker 6: Vampire, let's go vampire cruising. Let's do it tired all right?

1557
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:11,719
Speaker 4: Bye.

1558
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:18,559
Speaker 3: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by

1559
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:22,519
Speaker 3: Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited

1560
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,760
Speaker 3: by Mola Board. Our theme song was composed by Mike

1561
01:27:25,880 --> 01:27:30,240
Speaker 3: Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski. Our logo and merch

1562
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:33,360
Speaker 3: is designed by Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to

1563
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:37,840
Speaker 3: Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about the podcast, please visit

1564
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:39,439
Speaker 3: link Tree Slash Bechdel Cast