WEBVTT - ICYMI: How RFK Jr. Is Reshaping Vaccine Regulations in the US

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders

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<v Speaker 1>shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance and tech

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<v Speaker 1>news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast

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<v Speaker 1>with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's Vaccine

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<v Speaker 2>Advisory Committee Committee excuse me, recommended Merkshott to prevent newborns

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<v Speaker 2>from getting RSV.

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<v Speaker 3>At the same time, that's.

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<v Speaker 4>A big deal.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, it's a big deal for kids.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's right, yeah, right, when we talk about

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<v Speaker 2>at least in the past, when we've talked about the

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<v Speaker 2>importance of RSV, we talk about importance from kids.

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<v Speaker 3>You know that you've had little ones.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and I this is pretty new, Like we haven't

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<v Speaker 4>had been able to get this from my kids, not

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<v Speaker 4>this not this early, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Not this early, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we also had the Vaccine Panel moving to

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<v Speaker 2>restrict the use of some flu shots for Americans. And

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<v Speaker 2>then one more thing, Tim, we had the actual Health

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<v Speaker 2>and Human Services Secrety to come out and say that

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<v Speaker 2>the US will cut funding to the organization responsible for

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<v Speaker 2>vaccinating children in poor countries. So it's a move that

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<v Speaker 2>some experts say will result in unnecessary depth. So there's

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<v Speaker 2>a lot going on in this space, something that I

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<v Speaker 2>think we just take for granted in terms of vaccines,

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<v Speaker 2>but there's some debate over it.

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<v Speaker 4>Well here in the studio with more on these developments

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<v Speaker 4>and more. Bloomberg News health reporter Damien Garday joins us

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<v Speaker 4>in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. I kind of want to

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<v Speaker 4>start a little bit back in time. I think this

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<v Speaker 4>is yesterday's news, and then we can get to everything

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<v Speaker 4>that happened today. The questions over the vaccine schedule for kids.

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<v Speaker 4>This is something that anybody who has a young kid knows.

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<v Speaker 4>You you know, you look at this thing, Your doctor

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<v Speaker 4>looks at this thing and says, Okay, these are the

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<v Speaker 4>recommended vaccines at this age. They work in tandem sort

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<v Speaker 4>of with the American Academy of Pediatrics. I believe what's

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<v Speaker 4>happening with them from Washington right now.

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<v Speaker 5>Right so, the American vaccine schedules recommended by the CDC

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<v Speaker 5>not required, but I think for most people. You just

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<v Speaker 5>kind of go with what your patrician tells you, and

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<v Speaker 5>that's where it comes from. What we learned yesterday is

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<v Speaker 5>that the CDC's group of Vaccine Advisors intends to reopen

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<v Speaker 5>the book on the vaccine schedule, which, in the abstract,

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<v Speaker 5>kicking the tires scientifically on something like that seems perfectly reasonable.

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<v Speaker 5>The reason for the alarm that you may have heard

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<v Speaker 5>from public health officials is that this is a handpicked

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<v Speaker 5>group by Robert F. Kenney, Junior, who famously has advanced

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<v Speaker 5>and espoused debunct theories about the safety of vaccines going

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<v Speaker 5>back to the nineteen nineties, if not before, so people

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<v Speaker 5>are reading the tea leaves. Is this an attack on

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<v Speaker 5>the vaccination of young kids, which is something Kennedy has

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<v Speaker 5>fixated on for many years and tied various vaccines to

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<v Speaker 5>the development of autism and other issues for which there

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<v Speaker 5>is just no evidence. So the concern is that when

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<v Speaker 5>they reopen the book, their consideration of the evidence behind,

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<v Speaker 5>for example, the measles vaccine or anything else's recommended for

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<v Speaker 5>young kids will not be even handed, and that this

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<v Speaker 5>could be a kind of breadcrumb trail to a dismantling

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<v Speaker 5>of public health unitities.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, how does it work in the panel?

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<v Speaker 2>What evidence are they looking at, what research are they

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<v Speaker 2>looking at, what goes into determining their decision, or is

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<v Speaker 2>it kind of how they feel.

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<v Speaker 5>It's pretty rigorous, So there's a multi step process. Any

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<v Speaker 5>new vaccine, which at some point each of these vaccines

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<v Speaker 5>was new, must first win approval from the FDA, which

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<v Speaker 5>looks at safety and efficacy also pretty rigorously, and then

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<v Speaker 5>it goes to this panel of independent advisors to the CDC,

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<v Speaker 5>the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They pour over

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<v Speaker 5>even more of that data and look at things beyond

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<v Speaker 5>what the FDA looks at, including the cost and cost

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<v Speaker 5>effectiveness of these things, and real world evidence as to

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<v Speaker 5>how safe they are, how well they prevent disease, and

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<v Speaker 5>what side effects they may have.

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<v Speaker 4>The US does not have the only children in the world,

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<v Speaker 4>right there are children all over the world. I'm wondering

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<v Speaker 4>how the US vaccine schedule is different than vaccine schedules

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<v Speaker 4>in other parts of the world.

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<v Speaker 5>So, at least against like the Big five European nations,

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<v Speaker 5>they're pretty much the same. We all vaccinate against about

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<v Speaker 5>fifteen of the same childhood diseases. There is some difference

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<v Speaker 5>in like hepatitis A. Hepatitis be basically based on prevalence

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<v Speaker 5>in different countries. Some countries that's more of a risk

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<v Speaker 5>for young kids than it is in others for all

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<v Speaker 5>kinds of reasons. The number of individual shots you get varies,

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<v Speaker 5>and the US has more of those than for example,

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<v Speaker 5>Germany or the United Kingdom. This is a little bit

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<v Speaker 5>in the weeds, even though we're vaccinating against largely the

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<v Speaker 5>same diseases. In Europe, there are more combination vaccines that

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<v Speaker 5>we don't necessarily use in the US, so the number

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<v Speaker 5>of needles varies. But I would say by and large Japan,

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<v Speaker 5>other comparable nations, we are trying to prevent the same

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<v Speaker 5>diseases in our kids.

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<v Speaker 2>So they're basically giving a shot that may cover numerous things,

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<v Speaker 2>whereas we are doing individual shots.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then why is there a difference?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I mean, if I have a little critter,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to your needles the better. Yeah, exactly,

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<v Speaker 2>you know it really I did have a little critic,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a big critter now, but I mean, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>like that was something you wanted to limit as much

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<v Speaker 2>as possible.

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<v Speaker 5>Right, And it boils down to basically, you know the

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<v Speaker 5>same way that like reasonable people can disagree, different groups

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<v Speaker 5>of experts will look at safety and risk and cost differently.

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<v Speaker 5>So one example is measles. In the United States, we

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<v Speaker 5>recommend the MMR vaccine, which is measles, mumps and rebella,

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<v Speaker 5>and then the chicken pox vaccine separately. There is a

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<v Speaker 5>vaccine that has all four of those things together. It

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<v Speaker 5>can lead to, in small numbers of cases, seizures, and

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<v Speaker 5>the CDC decided years and years ago, eh, better to

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<v Speaker 5>do MMR plus V is what they call it. Overseas.

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<v Speaker 5>It's largely or in many cases MMRV. And there are

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<v Speaker 5>other cases like that where basically reasonable people sort of

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<v Speaker 5>equivalents of the CDC and countries around the world came

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<v Speaker 5>to different considerations. And some of this does have to

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<v Speaker 5>do with cost.

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<v Speaker 4>Does it seem like the Secretary of Health and Human

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<v Speaker 4>Services is fulfilling problems that he made as he was testifying.

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<v Speaker 4>If we remember back a few months ago, it was

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<v Speaker 4>pretty contentious and there were some holdouts who ultimately ended

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<v Speaker 4>up supporting him because they said, hey, he will not

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<v Speaker 4>do the things that the worst critics are saying he

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<v Speaker 4>will do. Right.

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<v Speaker 5>The short answer is no. I mean, one specific case

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<v Speaker 5>is as you mentioned, it was Senator Bill Cassidy from Louisiana,

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<v Speaker 5>who ended up being a doctor who is a doctor

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<v Speaker 5>and clearly was, or at least in public, seemed very

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<v Speaker 5>pained over this vote that's whether to confirm Kennedy, and

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<v Speaker 5>ended up being basically the deciding vote as a result,

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<v Speaker 5>and in order to get that vote, according to Cassidy,

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<v Speaker 5>Kennedy promised him explicitly that he would not mess with

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<v Speaker 5>this particular committee on the CDC.

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<v Speaker 3>Now that's Gordon Kennedy.

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<v Speaker 5>Kenny, I'm sorry, that's according to Cassidy, Kennedy did not

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<v Speaker 5>to my knowledge say that publicly. But I think we

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<v Speaker 5>can trust the senator, or at least we have little choice.

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<v Speaker 5>But two cut to this June, Kennedy fired all seventeen

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<v Speaker 5>of the standing members of this committee and replaced them

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<v Speaker 5>with eight people, one of whom resigned before the first meeting.

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<v Speaker 5>So they're remaining seven, and they include people with non

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<v Speaker 5>traditional backgrounds, not necessarily mds or vaccine experts, and in

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<v Speaker 5>a few cases people who have, like Kennedy, echoed those

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<v Speaker 5>debunct claims about vaccines causing autism or other safety rests.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, someone would would say that a panel should have

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<v Speaker 2>diverse points of view, right, so that you get a

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<v Speaker 2>healthier debate. Having said that, is it typical that an

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<v Speaker 2>administration like changes this panel completely?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean it does change over time, right, it does.

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<v Speaker 5>They're appointed to four year terms by Health and Human

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<v Speaker 5>Services secretaries and it's considered serving on this committee is

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<v Speaker 5>like a real badge of honor in public health. Whether

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<v Speaker 5>you're a vaccinologist, a pediatrician, a registered nurse. You often

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<v Speaker 5>it's almost like a minor league baseball system. You will

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<v Speaker 5>serve on the working groups that serve this committee, and

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<v Speaker 5>then to be selected honor. It is kind of yes,

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<v Speaker 5>so to liquid height, maybe not the right term to

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<v Speaker 5>fire outright all of the standing members and replace them.

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<v Speaker 5>That is unprecedent.

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<v Speaker 3>Just yeah, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 2>The one thing I wanted to get to is that

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<v Speaker 2>they may not provide the US funding for vaccinating children

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<v Speaker 2>in poor countries, as we learned with the pandemic. Pandemic

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't know a border, And like, I wonder about this,

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<v Speaker 2>so what are what's top.

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<v Speaker 3>Of mind for you? And forgive us it's only thirty seconds. No,

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<v Speaker 3>that's right.

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<v Speaker 5>The separate issue, so as you mentioned Kennedy announced that

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<v Speaker 5>the United States will no longer fund GAVI, a program

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<v Speaker 5>that was founded in part by the United States to

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<v Speaker 5>vaccinate children around the world. This is caused for serious

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<v Speaker 5>alarm around the globe, as you noted, like the next

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<v Speaker 5>COVID is not something that will just stop because of

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<v Speaker 5>a border. We need to see what the knock on

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<v Speaker 5>effects of this are. But I think I mean the

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<v Speaker 5>United States pulling out of funding as the major funder

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<v Speaker 5>is a serious concern.

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<v Speaker 3>Who needs chat chepto. We just need Damien. Thank you

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<v Speaker 3>so much, Damien Garde. Bloomberg News Health for reproduct.

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