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Speaker 2: Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's Vaccine
Speaker 2: Advisory Committee Committee excuse me, recommended Merkshott to prevent newborns
Speaker 2: from getting RSV.
Speaker 3: At the same time, that's.
Speaker 4: A big deal.
Speaker 3: I know, it's a big deal for kids.
Speaker 2: I mean it's right, yeah, right, when we talk about
Speaker 2: at least in the past, when we've talked about the
Speaker 2: importance of RSV, we talk about importance from kids.
Speaker 3: You know that you've had little ones.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I this is pretty new, Like we haven't
Speaker 4: had been able to get this from my kids, not
Speaker 4: this not this early, yeah.
Speaker 3: Not this early, all right.
Speaker 2: And then we also had the Vaccine Panel moving to
Speaker 2: restrict the use of some flu shots for Americans. And
Speaker 2: then one more thing, Tim, we had the actual Health
Speaker 2: and Human Services Secrety to come out and say that
Speaker 2: the US will cut funding to the organization responsible for
Speaker 2: vaccinating children in poor countries. So it's a move that
Speaker 2: some experts say will result in unnecessary depth. So there's
Speaker 2: a lot going on in this space, something that I
Speaker 2: think we just take for granted in terms of vaccines,
Speaker 2: but there's some debate over it.
Speaker 4: Well here in the studio with more on these developments
Speaker 4: and more. Bloomberg News health reporter Damien Garday joins us
Speaker 4: in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. I kind of want to
Speaker 4: start a little bit back in time. I think this
Speaker 4: is yesterday's news, and then we can get to everything
Speaker 4: that happened today. The questions over the vaccine schedule for kids.
Speaker 4: This is something that anybody who has a young kid knows.
Speaker 4: You you know, you look at this thing, Your doctor
Speaker 4: looks at this thing and says, Okay, these are the
Speaker 4: recommended vaccines at this age. They work in tandem sort
Speaker 4: of with the American Academy of Pediatrics. I believe what's
Speaker 4: happening with them from Washington right now.
Speaker 5: Right so, the American vaccine schedules recommended by the CDC
Speaker 5: not required, but I think for most people. You just
Speaker 5: kind of go with what your patrician tells you, and
Speaker 5: that's where it comes from. What we learned yesterday is
Speaker 5: that the CDC's group of Vaccine Advisors intends to reopen
Speaker 5: the book on the vaccine schedule, which, in the abstract,
Speaker 5: kicking the tires scientifically on something like that seems perfectly reasonable.
Speaker 5: The reason for the alarm that you may have heard
Speaker 5: from public health officials is that this is a handpicked
Speaker 5: group by Robert F. Kenney, Junior, who famously has advanced
Speaker 5: and espoused debunct theories about the safety of vaccines going
Speaker 5: back to the nineteen nineties, if not before, so people
Speaker 5: are reading the tea leaves. Is this an attack on
Speaker 5: the vaccination of young kids, which is something Kennedy has
Speaker 5: fixated on for many years and tied various vaccines to
Speaker 5: the development of autism and other issues for which there
Speaker 5: is just no evidence. So the concern is that when
Speaker 5: they reopen the book, their consideration of the evidence behind,
Speaker 5: for example, the measles vaccine or anything else's recommended for
Speaker 5: young kids will not be even handed, and that this
Speaker 5: could be a kind of breadcrumb trail to a dismantling
Speaker 5: of public health unitities.
Speaker 3: Well, how does it work in the panel?
Speaker 2: What evidence are they looking at, what research are they
Speaker 2: looking at, what goes into determining their decision, or is
Speaker 2: it kind of how they feel.
Speaker 5: It's pretty rigorous, So there's a multi step process. Any
Speaker 5: new vaccine, which at some point each of these vaccines
Speaker 5: was new, must first win approval from the FDA, which
Speaker 5: looks at safety and efficacy also pretty rigorously, and then
Speaker 5: it goes to this panel of independent advisors to the CDC,
Speaker 5: the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They pour over
Speaker 5: even more of that data and look at things beyond
Speaker 5: what the FDA looks at, including the cost and cost
Speaker 5: effectiveness of these things, and real world evidence as to
Speaker 5: how safe they are, how well they prevent disease, and
Speaker 5: what side effects they may have.
Speaker 4: The US does not have the only children in the world,
Speaker 4: right there are children all over the world. I'm wondering
Speaker 4: how the US vaccine schedule is different than vaccine schedules
Speaker 4: in other parts of the world.
Speaker 5: So, at least against like the Big five European nations,
Speaker 5: they're pretty much the same. We all vaccinate against about
Speaker 5: fifteen of the same childhood diseases. There is some difference
Speaker 5: in like hepatitis A. Hepatitis be basically based on prevalence
Speaker 5: in different countries. Some countries that's more of a risk
Speaker 5: for young kids than it is in others for all
Speaker 5: kinds of reasons. The number of individual shots you get varies,
Speaker 5: and the US has more of those than for example,
Speaker 5: Germany or the United Kingdom. This is a little bit
Speaker 5: in the weeds, even though we're vaccinating against largely the
Speaker 5: same diseases. In Europe, there are more combination vaccines that
Speaker 5: we don't necessarily use in the US, so the number
Speaker 5: of needles varies. But I would say by and large Japan,
Speaker 5: other comparable nations, we are trying to prevent the same
Speaker 5: diseases in our kids.
Speaker 2: So they're basically giving a shot that may cover numerous things,
Speaker 2: whereas we are doing individual shots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then why is there a difference?
Speaker 2: You know, I mean, if I have a little critter,
Speaker 2: I don't want to your needles the better. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: you know it really I did have a little critic,
Speaker 2: which is a big critter now, but I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: like that was something you wanted to limit as much
Speaker 2: as possible.
Speaker 5: Right, And it boils down to basically, you know the
Speaker 5: same way that like reasonable people can disagree, different groups
Speaker 5: of experts will look at safety and risk and cost differently.
Speaker 5: So one example is measles. In the United States, we
Speaker 5: recommend the MMR vaccine, which is measles, mumps and rebella,
Speaker 5: and then the chicken pox vaccine separately. There is a
Speaker 5: vaccine that has all four of those things together. It
Speaker 5: can lead to, in small numbers of cases, seizures, and
Speaker 5: the CDC decided years and years ago, eh, better to
Speaker 5: do MMR plus V is what they call it. Overseas.
Speaker 5: It's largely or in many cases MMRV. And there are
Speaker 5: other cases like that where basically reasonable people sort of
Speaker 5: equivalents of the CDC and countries around the world came
Speaker 5: to different considerations. And some of this does have to
Speaker 5: do with cost.
Speaker 4: Does it seem like the Secretary of Health and Human
Speaker 4: Services is fulfilling problems that he made as he was testifying.
Speaker 4: If we remember back a few months ago, it was
Speaker 4: pretty contentious and there were some holdouts who ultimately ended
Speaker 4: up supporting him because they said, hey, he will not
Speaker 4: do the things that the worst critics are saying he
Speaker 4: will do. Right.
Speaker 5: The short answer is no. I mean, one specific case
Speaker 5: is as you mentioned, it was Senator Bill Cassidy from Louisiana,
Speaker 5: who ended up being a doctor who is a doctor
Speaker 5: and clearly was, or at least in public, seemed very
Speaker 5: pained over this vote that's whether to confirm Kennedy, and
Speaker 5: ended up being basically the deciding vote as a result,
Speaker 5: and in order to get that vote, according to Cassidy,
Speaker 5: Kennedy promised him explicitly that he would not mess with
Speaker 5: this particular committee on the CDC.
Speaker 3: Now that's Gordon Kennedy.
Speaker 5: Kenny, I'm sorry, that's according to Cassidy, Kennedy did not
Speaker 5: to my knowledge say that publicly. But I think we
Speaker 5: can trust the senator, or at least we have little choice.
Speaker 5: But two cut to this June, Kennedy fired all seventeen
Speaker 5: of the standing members of this committee and replaced them
Speaker 5: with eight people, one of whom resigned before the first meeting.
Speaker 5: So they're remaining seven, and they include people with non
Speaker 5: traditional backgrounds, not necessarily mds or vaccine experts, and in
Speaker 5: a few cases people who have, like Kennedy, echoed those
Speaker 5: debunct claims about vaccines causing autism or other safety rests.
Speaker 2: Well, someone would would say that a panel should have
Speaker 2: diverse points of view, right, so that you get a
Speaker 2: healthier debate. Having said that, is it typical that an
Speaker 2: administration like changes this panel completely?
Speaker 3: I mean it does change over time, right, it does.
Speaker 5: They're appointed to four year terms by Health and Human
Speaker 5: Services secretaries and it's considered serving on this committee is
Speaker 5: like a real badge of honor in public health. Whether
Speaker 5: you're a vaccinologist, a pediatrician, a registered nurse. You often
Speaker 5: it's almost like a minor league baseball system. You will
Speaker 5: serve on the working groups that serve this committee, and
Speaker 5: then to be selected honor. It is kind of yes,
Speaker 5: so to liquid height, maybe not the right term to
Speaker 5: fire outright all of the standing members and replace them.
Speaker 5: That is unprecedent.
Speaker 3: Just yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2: The one thing I wanted to get to is that
Speaker 2: they may not provide the US funding for vaccinating children
Speaker 2: in poor countries, as we learned with the pandemic. Pandemic
Speaker 2: doesn't know a border, And like, I wonder about this,
Speaker 2: so what are what's top.
Speaker 3: Of mind for you? And forgive us it's only thirty seconds. No,
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 5: The separate issue, so as you mentioned Kennedy announced that
Speaker 5: the United States will no longer fund GAVI, a program
Speaker 5: that was founded in part by the United States to
Speaker 5: vaccinate children around the world. This is caused for serious
Speaker 5: alarm around the globe, as you noted, like the next
Speaker 5: COVID is not something that will just stop because of
Speaker 5: a border. We need to see what the knock on
Speaker 5: effects of this are. But I think I mean the
Speaker 5: United States pulling out of funding as the major funder
Speaker 5: is a serious concern.
Speaker 3: Who needs chat chepto. We just need Damien. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much, Damien Garde. Bloomberg News Health for reproduct.
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