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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. All right, we

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Speaker 2: are talking true crime all the time. It's Monday, July

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Speaker 2: twenty eighth, and we have a stack night of headlines.

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Speaker 3: Let me ask you, is Geelaye Maxwell.

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Speaker 2: Going to walk big day today? Lots of developments to

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Speaker 2: unpack there. Also the Dope Dentist trial continues, testimony after testimony. Listen.

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Speaker 2: Other things have been breaking in the news, so I

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Speaker 2: feel like we've fallen behind on this one. So tonight

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Speaker 2: is the night we are unpacking it all. And then

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Speaker 2: also our very own Doranto Fear, our true crime pop expert,

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Speaker 2: will be joining us to discuss some very juicy cases.

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Speaker 2: And also that interview between Governor Gavin Newsom of California

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Speaker 2: and also Ryan Murphy who scripted out the Menendez Brothers movie.

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Speaker 2: So what are they talking about? Lots to discuss there,

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Speaker 2: but listen, I'm Stephanie Leidecker. I'm sorry that I missed

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Speaker 2: you last night. But Courtney Armstrong and Body move in

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Speaker 2: the show goes on. I'm so glad to be back

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Speaker 2: with you, and look, we want to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: Join us eight eight eight three to one. Crime call

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Speaker 2: us anytime. This is a conversation. You can always hit

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Speaker 2: us up on our socials as well at True Crime

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Speaker 2: Tonight's show on Facebook or at True Crime Tonight on

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Speaker 2: Instagram and TikTok.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 3: First up, we have a talk back Hi.

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Speaker 5: At Cynthia from Canada calling in reverts to the Idaho massacre.

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Speaker 5: Is it possible that the sparks that the roommate saw

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Speaker 5: was from perhaps a lamp that got broken during the

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Speaker 5: struggle in one of the roommate's rooms, even maybe from

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Speaker 5: their tablet or computer that.

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Speaker 3: Sort of thing.

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Speaker 5: And also is it possible that he administered an obnoxious

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Speaker 5: substances to sedate them so that nobody heard any sounds. Thanks,

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Speaker 5: have a great night.

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Speaker 3: That means such a great question.

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Speaker 2: Cynthia the super sleuth herself from Canada.

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Speaker 3: We've missed you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, by the way, I thought the lamp or the

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Speaker 2: tablet or some but your body is shaking her head

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Speaker 2: that you don't think so I know.

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Speaker 6: The only reason is because the layout of the house

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Speaker 6: this was on Bethany who reported these sparks and hearing

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Speaker 6: the firecracker. Lives on the first floor alone with nobody else,

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Speaker 6: and the house is very you know, the house has

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Speaker 6: just got a weird layout. And the entry to the

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Speaker 6: house comes in at the first floor and literally right

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Speaker 6: there is like a hall closet the stairs and a door.

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Speaker 3: That's it.

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Speaker 6: There's no room for like a lamp or a you know,

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Speaker 6: table with a tablet or anything like that. Your tablet.

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Speaker 6: She had a tablet, and she was watching her tablet.

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Speaker 6: She's watching Big Daddy, and she fell asleep to it.

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Speaker 6: She turned her tablet off, she said, and then at

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Speaker 6: four o'clock she saw sparks and heard a firecracker. We don't,

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Speaker 6: I mean, listen, it could be anything. It could be

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Speaker 6: literally anything. I just don't necessarily think it was a

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Speaker 6: light bulb. And there we walls. Also, there was no

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Speaker 6: report when the officers arrived on scene of a broken

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Speaker 6: light bulb. And also the toxology reports didn't report anything

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Speaker 6: about like any sort of substance that he administured to

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Speaker 6: them either.

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Speaker 3: So it's a good got though good interesting, I think anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think the most logical is that it was a

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Speaker 3: car either peeling in or peeling out. It's for something

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Speaker 3: in the morning, you're asleep, it's a noise and a

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Speaker 3: light and if a car, you know, the light swings

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Speaker 3: through or fletches off of something. So that's what makes

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Speaker 3: the most sense to me.

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Speaker 6: And like maybe a backfire or something like it. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: you know, I don't know. I don't know, but it's

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Speaker 6: it's interesting because she repeated that she repeated this this

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Speaker 6: spark and fireworker thing. Sparkler she called it at one

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Speaker 6: point in every interview that had with her.

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Speaker 2: I think it is something. I don't think she imagined it.

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Speaker 2: I think it would be also odd if there was

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Speaker 2: more driving traffic at that hour, and if there were,

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Speaker 2: that would have been maybe a witness or somebody who

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Speaker 2: could have maybe given more detail about what was happening,

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Speaker 2: because I get it. Yes, you know, when you're sleeping,

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Speaker 2: you see you know, a car goes by, it does

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Speaker 2: change the look of the room.

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Speaker 3: Et cetera, and that can be scary.

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Speaker 2: Interesting. I don't know that we'll ever get to the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the riddle, but I do think it's something

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Speaker 2: because she has said it so repeatedly that it must

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Speaker 2: have been notable in some way and not just maybe

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Speaker 2: a fogged memory.

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Speaker 6: I thought it was like a taser or something at first,

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Speaker 6: And I just don't know. I mean, I'm up for

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Speaker 6: discussing anything that it could be. I just don't know.

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Speaker 2: With the again, with the layout of that house, there's

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Speaker 2: just not a lot of room for a lot of

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Speaker 2: items down there. Yeah, it's a surprisingly small house too.

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Speaker 2: It appears much larger even in the documentary we did it,

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Speaker 2: you know, Lisa bul And so great. She did the

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Speaker 2: visual effects of it, and it is surprisingly tiny. All

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Speaker 2: things considered, it does seem much larger. But back to

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Speaker 2: the you know, maybe getting drugged or something, just throwing

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Speaker 2: it out there. I know you guys were with Joseph

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan last night and this is not a theory

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Speaker 2: that he has said at all. But like they don't

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Speaker 2: test for everything that's you know, is it possible? Sometimes

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Speaker 2: we hear that well, even including the dopey dentist who's

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Speaker 2: drugging his wife with teardrops. You know, there are certain

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Speaker 2: things that are not customary on toxicology or initial autopsies,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. Now let's take it one step further. They

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Speaker 2: do an advanced version looking for things that are like,

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Speaker 2: you know, date, rape, drugs, roofies, ghb. Okay, maybe that's

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Speaker 2: like tier two. I'm not one hundred percent sure if

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Speaker 2: it is. If anyone listening does definitely jump in and

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Speaker 2: add to the combo. But maybe he Yeah, this little

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Speaker 2: smarty pants in his head, this monster, maybe that is

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Speaker 2: what quieted them. Although it didn't sound very quiet just

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Speaker 2: Santa Forensics, it seems like it must have been Mayhem.

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Speaker 6: And Xanna really fought hard and for the life of her.

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Speaker 6: I mean, if if he did anything, if he administered anything,

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Speaker 6: it probably would have been to sweet Mattie, if anything,

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Speaker 6: because that would have really been his only opportunity. Right,

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Speaker 6: great question, though, really good lot for us to makes

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Speaker 6: me think. It makes me think, and I like those

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Speaker 6: kind of questions. So Cynthia, keep it coming. We love

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Speaker 6: your calls. I mean definitely love your call.

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Speaker 3: So thank you absolutely well. I have been thinking about Glaine.

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Speaker 2: Maxwell, America's favorite co conspirator sex trafficker that's going to

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Speaker 2: be walking the streets probably soon.

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Speaker 3: Do you think, yes? Do you really?

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Speaker 2: I have no secret information, It just seems incredibly interesting.

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Speaker 2: At the bare minimum, this is just what I'm seeing

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Speaker 2: and reading about on all sides. You know, Courtney, I

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Speaker 2: don't want to cut off the intro because you were

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Speaker 2: about to. I'll give you my opinion as up.

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Speaker 6: Where we are.

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Speaker 3: So Gahlene Maxwell, who has been, as you said in

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Speaker 3: the news, a lot sort of top of everybody's brain.

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Speaker 3: She reportedly gave officials the names of approximately one hundred

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Speaker 3: Epstein linked individuals during a meeting with the DOJ. And

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Speaker 3: I think it's important that it's Epstein linked because it

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Speaker 3: doesn't say people's not a client list, correct, And she

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Speaker 3: did that hoping to leverage that her cooperation would lead

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Speaker 3: to clemency. In the meanwhile, President Donald Trump has publicly

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Speaker 3: distanced himself from Epstein and has also denied even considering

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Speaker 3: a pardon for Maxwell. So that's kind of the update.

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Speaker 3: And then the backstory if you somehow missed it. Jeffrey

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Speaker 3: Epstein was a financier, a wealthy man about town, a

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Speaker 3: convicted multiple sex offender who operated a global trafficking network

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Speaker 3: for decades. This guy and he was aided by a

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Speaker 3: long time as see it slash romantic partner Eleen Maxwell,

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Speaker 3: and she was convicted in twenty twenty one of sex

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Speaker 3: trafficking and perjury.

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Speaker 2: And now she's saying nothing to see here, So let's

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Speaker 2: just break that down a little bit, so play along

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Speaker 2: with me. There's probably three scenarios here. The first scenario

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Speaker 2: is that Jeffrey Epstein, this established financier, was a hell

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Speaker 2: of a guy and maybe accused of things he didn't do.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't a sex trafficker. Maybe he wasn't really luring

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Speaker 2: underage girls in excess, hundreds and hundreds of them to

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Speaker 2: this little island where influential men would participate in inappropriate

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Speaker 2: behavior and that's on camera, and maybe that was like

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Speaker 2: a blackmail thing. That's one theory. Maybe that didn't happen,

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Speaker 2: And if that's the case, then gile Maxwell just maybe

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Speaker 2: followed the wrong guy down the wrong place and is

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Speaker 2: innocent of all charges. So why would she be serving

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Speaker 2: twenty years? It's one theory. The other is a little

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Speaker 2: more extreme, and I think we're saying a lot to

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Speaker 2: this one of she's a convicted co conspirator of sex

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Speaker 2: traffing two hundred to maybe five hundred women, some of

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Speaker 2: them are underage, some of them are in their twenties,

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Speaker 2: some of them had literally no idea what was happening.

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Speaker 2: The list is very long. Her love of her life,

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Speaker 2: the boyfriend that she couldn't live without. Jeffrey Epstein had

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Speaker 2: a proclivity for young girls, gets some fancy island, has

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Speaker 2: girls there massaging him, and I say that in air quotes.

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Speaker 2: We know that that escalated, according to testimony by many,

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Speaker 2: and she kind of flew the helicopter blah blah and

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Speaker 2: has been accused of sex trafficking and according to your

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Speaker 2: point perjury. Is it possible that the DOJ right now

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Speaker 2: is getting a list of people that are just throwaway names.

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Speaker 3: Are those names going to be released?

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Speaker 2: Because there's this other third scenario, which is these names

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Speaker 2: get taken, one hundred of them, and then they're sealed

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Speaker 2: because they can be and then we hear nothing and

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Speaker 2: even any president, whether it's President Trump or former presidents

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Speaker 2: or presidents of state or global heroes, whatever it is,

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Speaker 2: it's all going to get mommed again. Is that possible?

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Speaker 3: I think anything's anything's possible. It smells so terrible.

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Speaker 6: I think there would be massive civil unrest if that

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Speaker 6: were to happen. But you're listening to True crime tonight

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Speaker 6: on iHeartRadio. I'm Body Moven and I'm here with Stephanie

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Speaker 6: Leidecker and Courtney Armstrong, and we are talking about Delanne

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Speaker 6: Maxwell's meeting of the minds with the Department of Justice.

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Speaker 6: We want you to weigh in, what do you think

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Speaker 6: is going on, Like, what is your theory about what's

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Speaker 6: happening or what may happen? Give us a call at

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Speaker 6: eighty eight thirty one Prime to what else you said

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Speaker 6: you had three scenario studios.

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Speaker 2: Well, the third is that you know, we get the truth. Well,

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Speaker 2: wouldn't that be so amazing? Like what if we actually

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Speaker 2: just got the truth? And by the way, if that

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Speaker 2: means President Donald Trump when was bugs? You know, people

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Speaker 2: have friends and their friends could be doing things behind

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Speaker 2: closed doors that you're not privy to, and it's a

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Speaker 2: shock when you hear. Otherwise, let's just go there. If

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Speaker 2: President Trump, Okay, he invited a sex offender and his

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Speaker 2: co conspirator to his wedding. Okay, that's is what it is.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there were a lot of people at his wedding.

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Speaker 2: There's photographs through the years. Okay, but just let's put

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Speaker 2: that aside, just as an in general, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: heard from accountless people that Epstein likely didn't kill himself

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Speaker 2: or at least the story that we've been told by

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Speaker 2: the government was inaccurate to some degree. And then we

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Speaker 2: were fed a bunch of noise about some tape that

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Speaker 2: was going to prove that he did commit suicide. After

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Speaker 2: person after person says yep, it's a suicide, and the

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Speaker 2: basic I can see that was untrue, and we discuss

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Speaker 2: that night after night of it through night here. Then

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Speaker 2: it was like, well, no Elaine Maxwell, of course she's

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Speaker 2: going to do twenty years. She's never going to get out.

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Speaker 2: That would be crazy, and like, it's actually in here

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Speaker 2: we are happening. So I don't know what to make

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Speaker 2: She's got this appeal too, and she's got a Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court by the way, she's also citing that. And I

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Speaker 2: think this is worth unpacking and we can do it

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Speaker 2: more tomorrow as an unfold. But you know, listen. Epstein

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Speaker 2: was also brought up on charges in West Palm Beach

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Speaker 2: back in the day that was the precursor to this island,

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Speaker 2: and he was also accused of you know, very bad

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Speaker 2: things and got a slap on the hand, like he

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Speaker 2: didn't even do a night in jail. He would like,

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Speaker 2: didn't he house or something? Yeah, like he go to

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Speaker 2: work and like puts around in West brom and like

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Speaker 2: do his.

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Speaker 6: Thing and then then check into jail.

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Speaker 2: He would like go and like have a little night

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Speaker 2: night with his like maybe he brought a little pillow

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Speaker 2: with him.

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Speaker 3: It was like a joke.

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Speaker 2: Everybody let him walk. And this is somebody who was

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Speaker 2: a convicted pedophile. So not only did he walk, he

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Speaker 2: rose to the occasion and failed upward. So how does

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Speaker 2: that happen that you would even want to hang out

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Speaker 2: with that guy? But I think that's where the problem

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Speaker 2: was because apparently at that time he claimed that any

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Speaker 2: of his conspirators would not have charges be brought up

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Speaker 2: against them, And I think that's what Elaine Maxwell is

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Speaker 2: now pointing back to. So by pointing back to that,

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Speaker 2: you're saying, well, the accused sex trafficker said none of

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Speaker 2: my co conspirators, So wouldn't that mean sex trafficking had

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Speaker 2: to occur for him to say no co conspirators? Like

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Speaker 2: the web is ridiculous. I feel like we're like in

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Speaker 2: an endless loophole in the law and then at the

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Speaker 2: end of the day we can change it.

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Speaker 6: Well, I don't know if we're going to be able

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Speaker 6: to change it, but we're going to be unpacking the

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Speaker 6: latest on the Dope dentist James Craig, the Colorado dentist

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Speaker 6: accused of poisoning and killing his wife through her protein shakes.

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Speaker 6: Plus we'll be joined by Toronto Fear. Stay tuned for that.

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Speaker 6: I can't wait. Keep it right here, True Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: And listen, Epstein. We want to hear from you what

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Speaker 2: your thoughts are on these new developments. And also this

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Speaker 2: dentist in Colorado will be talking a lot about him.

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Speaker 2: He's accused of killing his wife, the mother of six kids,

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Speaker 2: and his trial basically ends tomorrow, so we want to

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Speaker 2: unpack kind of the newest developments in the courthouse today.

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Speaker 3: And then also our very.

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Speaker 2: Favorite pop culture expert, Gronto Fear, is coming to talk

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Speaker 2: about the Menendez brothers and their recent chat with Governor

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Speaker 2: Newsom of California. So more on that to come. But

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Speaker 2: first of well, actually we have a caller now, Hi Bear,

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Speaker 2: Thank you for calling.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Hi, Welcome to the show. What's your question?

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Speaker 7: Well, question, why aren't they letting those men getting those

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Speaker 7: boys out?

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Speaker 2: Would you like them to be released or would you

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Speaker 2: not like them to be released?

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Speaker 7: I would like them to be out. Everybody else gets

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Speaker 7: their second chance, why not them? I mean, they don't

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Speaker 7: have much of a life left, you know, and their

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Speaker 7: family will take them in, you know. I mean, you

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Speaker 7: don't know how long they're going to live after they

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Speaker 7: get out, because it's not I just don't like it,

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Speaker 7: because I've heard of other people getting out after five years,

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Speaker 7: ten years, you know what I mean totally, you're in

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Speaker 7: what thirty five years? I think that's long enough.

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Speaker 2: Thirty five years?

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Speaker 3: And we know, do you?

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Speaker 2: Obviously you don't think they're a danger to society, and

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Speaker 2: you're you're kind of right. It does seem like people

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Speaker 2: are getting out left and right. Who gets to decide

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Speaker 2: when and why?

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Speaker 6: Right?

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Speaker 2: So well, Menanda's brothers may very well walk very soon.

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Speaker 2: You might very very happy to know very soon. I

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Speaker 2: think I think they will.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 6: They have their parle hearing on August twenty first and

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Speaker 6: twenty second, and by the way, Bear, thank you so

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Speaker 6: much for the call. We really appreciate to keep it coming.

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Speaker 6: So their parole hearing is on the twenty first and

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Speaker 6: the twenty second of August. But prior to that, maybe

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Speaker 6: this talk with Gavin Newsom, who said he could consider

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Speaker 6: furloughing them. You know, I think it's Lyle that is

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Speaker 6: in the hospital with the kidney stones or whatever. He

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Speaker 6: could get a medical furlough for that. We're to see.

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Speaker 6: But you know, we have Deron coming up in the

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Speaker 6: next hour and he's going to talk about that conversation

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Speaker 6: with Gavin Newsom right An, it's actually very timely, so

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Speaker 6: stay tuned because we're going to be talking about the

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Speaker 6: Menendez like ad nauseum really.

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Speaker 3: And it's it's actually Eric Menendez is Eric Hie. Thank

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Speaker 3: you for that. And by the way, this is a

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Speaker 3: real stranger side. But have I actually watched someone have

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Speaker 3: at kidney stone? I was at work with someone who's

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Speaker 3: a very dear friend and I'll make this quick, and

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Speaker 3: they said, oh my god, like horrible pain. Have to

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Speaker 3: go to the hospital kind of pain. And when we

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Speaker 3: finally got there, figured out that they were like passing

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Speaker 3: a kidney stone and it.

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Speaker 2: Looked very creating, on the same level as childbirth, because

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Speaker 2: that's what.

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Speaker 3: It seemed it while I was driving the car and

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Speaker 3: there in the passenger seat.

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Speaker 6: Is it the same as a dentist?

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Speaker 2: It seems like anybody who had dental work in Colorado

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Speaker 2: should go back and make sure things are on the

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Speaker 2: up and up, because this dentist seemed awfully busy.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So closing arguments begin tomorrow in the Dopey Dentist trial.

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Speaker 6: Of course, his name is James Craig. We're referring to

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Speaker 6: him as the Dopey Dentist because we just don't like

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Speaker 6: him very much. He stands a custa fatally poisoning his wife, Angela.

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Speaker 6: She had six children with him, six children. She was only.

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Speaker 3: Forty three years old.

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Speaker 2: Dedicated, dedicated mother, dedicated white, a woman of faith, a

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Speaker 2: woman of much faith.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and she was very committed to her husband. And

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Speaker 6: he poisoned her with cyanide and tetra a drosolene, which

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Speaker 6: is like the fluid that's in the eye droppers. I

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Speaker 6: didn't know this. I have vizine at my desk, and

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Speaker 6: so the other day I was at work and I

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Speaker 6: picked up my vizine. You know, it's really dry in Vegas.

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Speaker 6: It's not like I'm you know, smoke a drugs or

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Speaker 6: anything like that, but it's really dry in Vegas. So vizine.

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Speaker 6: I carry it with me. It says on the back,

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Speaker 6: don't drink. I did know ida, No, exactly.

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Speaker 2: There's many times of it, and this guy had been

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Speaker 2: doing it for a long time. It's also, as we know,

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Speaker 2: a very painful death, and this guy knows it and

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Speaker 2: apparently was like out and about with a lot of ladies. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, you know, this is really sad. I

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Speaker 2: read today. Angela's last words were, why do I hurt?

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Speaker 6: Very so? AnyWho. So, last week the court heard because

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Speaker 6: you know, listen, we were on coburger like all, you know,

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Speaker 6: the last five days, we've missed a lot of the

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Speaker 6: dopey dentist stuff, so I'm kind of I want to

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Speaker 6: kind of recap what's been going on smart. Last week

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Speaker 6: the court heard from inmates who are saying that Craig

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Speaker 6: attempted dopey dentists, attempted to bribe them into planting false evidence,

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Speaker 6: and orchestrating a murder for higher plot against the detective,

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Speaker 6: the lead detective in this case. Other key witness also testified,

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Speaker 6: and they included several different women with whom Craig was

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Speaker 6: having affairs with. So we've got inmates that are testifying saying, listen,

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Speaker 6: he tried to hit me up in prison when I

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Speaker 6: was or in jail, you know, he was in the

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Speaker 6: jail cell next to me, and he wanted me to

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Speaker 6: plant a journal at the house. He even gave me

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Speaker 6: the door code, told me what where.

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Speaker 3: To put it.

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Speaker 2: He's giving them deaf yet he's giving the children, just

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Speaker 2: totally throwing a security of his beloved family out the door,

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Speaker 2: whether they if there are not any longer.

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Speaker 6: Right, Oh, horrible, horrible. And then of course the women.

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Speaker 6: Over the course of their marriage, the Adobe dentists had

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Speaker 6: a couple different affairs. And I'm using couple like I'm

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Speaker 6: being very kind. It was many different affairs with different women.

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Speaker 6: And Angela actually wrote in her journal about these, which

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Speaker 6: we're going to cover later about these affairs because she

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Speaker 6: knew about it, and you know, and forgave him because

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Speaker 6: she was very committed to her marriage. You know, she

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Speaker 6: had six kids with this guy. He was a dentist.

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Speaker 6: I mean, you know, he's providing, and you know.

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Speaker 3: Well, in terms of the providing, I will say there

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Speaker 3: was definitely financial difficulties, Like big I'm pretty sure bankruptcy

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Speaker 3: was on the table at some point.

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Speaker 2: Gay, He's got a lot of mouths to feed, well, yes,

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Speaker 2: and women, women on dates, and I think all these

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Speaker 2: dates are cheap no.

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Speaker 3: And he's yeah, you know, going on huge vacations. And

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Speaker 3: then also he was purporting to be a millionaire. It

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Speaker 3: was on like sugar Babies dot Com or stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So listen, we want to hear your thoughts. We're at

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Speaker 3: eight to eight, three to one crime. What do you

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Speaker 3: think about this dope dentist and more specifically, what do

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Speaker 3: you think about how asking a fellow inmate to go

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Speaker 3: plant false things at your house, false journals, and giving

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Speaker 3: these people who are in prison and giving them the

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Speaker 3: code to your garage and here's the layout to the house.

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it's a house where your kids.

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Speaker 6: Live too, and then asking him to take out the

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Speaker 6: lead detective that's investigating this case too.

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Speaker 3: That's great. And they did.

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Speaker 6: The inmates did testify and say that they were not

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Speaker 6: given any special consideration for their testimony. I don't know

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Speaker 6: how true that is. I mean, I obviously they're not

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Speaker 6: going to commit perjury, but I don't know. You know,

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Speaker 6: we have to see his photo.

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Speaker 2: This guy, Oh, he's not smiles from my by the way,

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Speaker 2: the dentist he smiles.

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Speaker 3: Women be worn.

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Speaker 2: He looks like but by the way, he looks like

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Speaker 2: friendly and nice and he's gissing on his wife and

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Speaker 2: all these photos smiley and happy. Meanwhile, this guy's like

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Speaker 2: spiking her protein shakes with cyanide and then going on

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Speaker 2: double dates with multiple women literally six kids at home

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Speaker 2: and doing root canal during the day and having arsenic

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Speaker 2: delivered to his office.

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Speaker 3: Who has the time?

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Speaker 6: While while she was Sickason, he was sexting and making

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Speaker 6: arrangements meet with two different women and they testified today

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Speaker 6: or yesterday. Yeah, and now he's getting everybody knocked off

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Speaker 6: around him. You know who's involved in this case?

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Speaker 2: Question Like it's again it says like this grandiose sense

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Speaker 2: of self that he must have to think he could

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Speaker 2: get away with it. That is a dissimilar or is

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Speaker 2: a similar I should say, trait to Brian Coberger in

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Speaker 2: the Idaho student murders, Like these guys that just think

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Speaker 2: they're above getting that they're going to have every little

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Speaker 2: check in box happening and that guy will pay off.

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Speaker 3: Like it's so scary it is. Well this and the reason,

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Speaker 3: by the way, I remember whoever of us first said

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Speaker 3: this guy's a dope, but this dopey dentist is because

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Speaker 3: how also do you think it's going to be a secret.

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Speaker 3: If you're telling all of these multitudes of people and

435
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: having all of these affairs, that's what's even beyond Okay,

436
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 3: you can think maybe I'm smart enough by myself to

437
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 3: never get caught when you embroil multitudes, including your daughter

438
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 3: and your fellow inmate and the admin who works at

439
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 3: your dental practice to you know, sign for your what

440
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,280
Speaker 3: was it arsnakes R screen?

441
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 8: Yeah?

442
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, literally, like so well please artek delivery.

443
00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 8: Yeah.

444
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 6: So one of his affairs testified that she met him

445
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 6: through that sugar daddy website sugar babies or no nature

446
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 6: seeking something like that.

447
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 3: And what is it? It's nature?

448
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 2: What does that even mean?

449
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 6: I don't know.

450
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 2: So you log on, I'm sorry to cut us off

451
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 2: and derail us. Of course you don't know this, but

452
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 2: what what does it say that? It is nature dot com?

453
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: It's a sugar daddy site. So that means for just

454
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 2: for my mom, that means you are a young lady

455
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 2: looking for a man with deep pockets with money to

456
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 2: take care of her in exchange for sex, and you

457
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 2: can do that online in a confidential manner.

458
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 3: Is that they that's the assertion.

459
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 2: That's the assumption. That's so just encouraging.

460
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 3: No one knows what that is.

461
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 6: Her name was Elizabeth, Elizabeth Gore, and she testified that

462
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 6: she knew he was married, but that they were getting

463
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 6: like kind of like disentangled, and that they went on

464
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 6: the trip to Montana, and while they were on this

465
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 6: trip to Montana, the dope dentist gave her like eight

466
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 6: thousand dollars. And while they were driving to go skiing Angela,

467
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 6: the wife called the dope dentist and he had to

468
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 6: like pull over and they spoke for two hours while

469
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 6: she just sat there, okay, And then when it was over,

470
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 6: when the phone call was over, he gets in the

471
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 6: car and he's like, I gotta go home, and she

472
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 6: was like, yeah, you know, like it's fine, it's yeah.

473
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,119
Speaker 6: And I think I got the impression for reading all

474
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 6: the articles that that's kind of when he was like,

475
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 6: I got to get rid of my wife. Like she's

476
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 6: a big fat headache, Like she's she's doing to my hookup.

477
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,880
Speaker 6: I just gave this chick eight thousand dollars. She's doing

478
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 6: getting bankruptcy.

479
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 2: He has six kids that probably have some needs, and

480
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 2: he's coughing over eight py and going on a sexy

481
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 2: website to meet young tail looking out for men with cash.

482
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: By the way, lucky that she came forward. I took

483
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 3: a little bravery.

484
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: It did take hats off big courage for that, because again,

485
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: these are the guys that would get away with it

486
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: absolutely well.

487
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 3: He had too many women in Broil to get to

488
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,640
Speaker 3: possibly have gotten away with it. I mean, to your point, yes,

489
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 3: good for you for coming forth. But even this woman

490
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 3: who he gave that eight thousand dollars too, she was like, yeah,

491
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 3: coming on, way too strong. But it was in the

492
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,360
Speaker 3: same moment where he's meeting and kissing. Well.

493
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 6: He met another girl at this seeking dot com which

494
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 6: is another kind of one of those websites, and she

495
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 6: testified her name is Carrie. She testified he helped pay

496
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 6: her bills and bought her a car for her daughter.

497
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 3: How much do dentists make? This guy?

498
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 2: I would like every person who was a patient to

499
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,160
Speaker 2: turn around. He has a set of teeth on him. Here,

500
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: this guy's all smiling in his photos. I need everybody

501
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,360
Speaker 2: to have a look. It's so upsetting. Your teeth arek

502
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 2: perfect though, smile away. You've been talking a bit about

503
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 2: the dope dentist. Obviously jump in joined the conversation eight

504
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime. You can also leave us

505
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: a message or a talkback.

506
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 3: Actually we have one now.

507
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 9: Much love, love the show, love the in depth.

508
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 10: I just I'm a little bit addicted and a little

509
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 10: sad that you take a break. But I follow you

510
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 10: on most of your social media.

511
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 9: Thanks.

512
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: Bye, aw I is there?

513
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 6: Like?

514
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 3: That was so nice.

515
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 6: It was so nice. Listen, if you want to leave

516
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 6: us a talkback, that is a good one to leave

517
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 6: because I'm in sadly with all the I mean just

518
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 6: for the horrible things that we cover. It's kind of sad.

519
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 6: And yeah, you know that's very nice to hear. Thank

520
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 6: you so much.

521
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 3: Thank you for joining the combo.

522
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, and anytime, anytime you can.

523
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 3: Also you can leave questions or have disagreements or anything else.

524
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 3: But that was a really nice one.

525
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 6: Compliments. I'll tell you what. So I'm gonna go ahead.

526
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 2: I was just going to say, so like this dentist,

527
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 2: I mean, I think we have to still unpack a

528
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 2: bit more about it, because it's great jaw dropping. This

529
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 2: guy really thinks he's above the law. Oh he does.

530
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 6: So if you're just joining us, we're talking about Adobe

531
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 6: DENTI he is the dentist out of Colorado. His name

532
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 6: is James Craig, and he is in court right now.

533
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 6: He's on trial because he is accused of killing his wife,

534
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 6: Angela Craig. She was forty three, mother of six, his

535
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 6: six children, by the way, they've been married forever. And

536
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 6: he killed her with eye drops that he put cyanide

537
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,400
Speaker 6: in and then put those eye drops into her protein shakes.

538
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:28,479
Speaker 6: And additionally he might have put something we don't know

539
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 6: into antibiotics, which is what I'm going to kind of

540
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 6: get into now. His family or her family came to

541
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 6: Colorado to help with the kids, because again, six kids

542
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 6: and moms in the hospital for ever at the hospital,

543
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 6: and the Adobe dentist is out here running around with all

544
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 6: these women that he's met at dentist conferences and you know,

545
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 6: these sugar baby websites and whatnot.

546
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 3: He was literally.

547
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 6: Dating one of the women. When Angela was in the hospital,

548
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 6: he was in the hotel room with her. So this

549
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 6: while so, I mean the kids are at home. There's

550
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 6: six kids, anyhow, so her family came into Colorado to

551
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 6: help take care of the kids. No, all right, and

552
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 6: they said that the Dennis was acting very strange. I

553
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 6: bet and they say that Mark, who is the brother

554
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 6: of Angela, the victim in this case. Mark said that,

555
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 6: you know, when Angela got released from the hospital, she

556
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 6: had like basically a list of things that she had

557
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 6: to take, like all these medications and whatnot. And one

558
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 6: of them is one that he prescribed, and it was

559
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 6: like an antibiotic. I can't pronounce the name, so I'm

560
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 6: just gonna say an antibiotic.

561
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 3: That's okay. So he the brother.

562
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 6: The brother's like, thank you, I'm gonna give this to

563
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 6: my sister while you're at work, okay. So the dopey

564
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 6: Dennis goes to work and the brother gives it to

565
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 6: her on time, and within minutes she's like in so

566
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 6: much pain that they have to take her back to

567
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 6: the hospital.

568
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

569
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 6: Then she never she never comes home after that. And Mark,

570
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 6: the brother says that the dope dentist was mad they

571
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 6: took her to the hospital. She's supposed to be resting.

572
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 6: She's not supposed to have movement, you know, Yeah, he got.

573
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 3: She's also not supposed to have nineteen kinds of poison

574
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 3: in her body.

575
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 6: Thank you.

576
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 2: But harv Our entire family have to come across the

577
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 2: country to take care of his six children while he's

578
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 2: handing six or eight thousand dollars worth of cash to

579
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 2: a younger fling.

580
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 6: You're not wrong, are not wrong anyway. I just thought

581
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 6: that was just so sad, Like, you know, she thought

582
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 6: she was taking a pill that her husband apparently prescribed

583
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 6: to her. And I don't know what he did with these.

584
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 6: They were capsules, you know how like there's like the

585
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 6: pills and then there's capsules that you can break open together.

586
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: They were capsules. Those were very dangerous too, also, a

587
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 3: little white. You need some advice if you are stumble

588
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 3: upon those.

589
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 2: Those can really be messed with.

590
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: Well do we know if he tweaked them or if

591
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 3: it was an interaction with again all of the stuff

592
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 3: that was ravaging her body all ready.

593
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: I think the accusation is that they were tweaked, got it.

594
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:05,959
Speaker 2: And then also the accusation is that he did her

595
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: off at the end in the hospital like you see

596
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: in the scary movies, something in her iv Am I

597
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 2: mistaken about that?

598
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, he brought in excuse met, the prosecution alleges that

599
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 3: he brought in a syringe to allegedly alleged that's right.

600
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,400
Speaker 3: How many how many episodes of everything. Have we legally jagged?

601
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 8: I say it?

602
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 6: He wrote a note. He wrote a note in his

603
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 6: iPhone like you know how you can go your notes

604
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 6: and you and it was his account of what happened,

605
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 6: and he said, he said, quoting directly. So I want

606
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 6: to get it right. She told me she intended to

607
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 6: drink eyedrops again and then do the cyanide. She asked

608
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 6: me to put it into a capsule and then as

609
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 6: a backup plane, dissolved something into a syringe. I got her,

610
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 6: this is the anti name clemenisiny okay, and then filled

611
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 6: up two hundred milligrams each of potassium cyanide. So they

612
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 6: were signiding these little pills two hundred milligrams. She asked

613
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,120
Speaker 6: me to do something like a dozen capsules in the er.

614
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 6: It looked like she was probably going to pull through

615
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 6: and be okay, he wrote. In that moment, when no

616
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 6: one else was in earshot, she asked me to help

617
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 6: finish the job.

618
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 2: What a gross person this guy is. This is a

619
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: throwaway the key right.

620
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 6: And so the problem with this is that she Angela

621
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 6: thwarted his plan because she kept a journal, and this

622
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 6: journal dates back to two thousand and nine, and really quickly.

623
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 6: The journal never mentions that she's suicidal, not one time.

624
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 3: Well, that seems like because it was the truth. Listen,

625
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: we want to hear what you think is the truth

626
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 3: in this case. What do you think you know? Was

627
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 3: Angela have issues as this dentist claims, or as all

628
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 3: the evidence seems to be pointing to. Was he just

629
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 3: a horrible decrepit person? Add eight through one crime? Let

630
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 3: us know your thoughts. So what else was in this journal?

631
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: What else can we learn from?

632
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 6: So it dates back, It dates back to two thousand

633
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 6: and nine, and it contained numerous entries detailing, you know,

634
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 6: emotional distress and repeated suspicions of infidelity. You know, she

635
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 6: really knew that he was cheating on her. Back to

636
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 6: two thousand and nine, there was a February twenty eighteen

637
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 6: entry where she wrote that he had been having an

638
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 6: affair for six months, noting that he wouldn't admit it

639
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 6: and might not even fully acknowledge it himself. In various

640
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 6: entries throughout the journal, she expressed feelings of being unloved

641
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 6: and feeling betrayed and emotionally unsafe in the marriage, linking

642
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 6: her pain directly to him. It's really sad. It's really sad,

643
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 6: but she was still committed.

644
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 3: It's horrible, and you know, to do that to somebody

645
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 3: when you cheat on them, it does. It didn't. I'm

646
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 3: painting with a broad brush, but it really demolishes your

647
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: self esteem. I'll say, you know.

648
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 6: She said that they were in her journal. She noted

649
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 6: that they were attending therapy together and that the dope

650
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 6: dentist was reportedly seeking addiction treatment, saying that he had

651
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 6: like a sex addiction. And she said, he loves me.

652
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 6: How could he do this to me if he really

653
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 6: loves me, he doesn't think I'm good enough. He'd rather

654
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 6: be with someone else.

655
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 3: So sad.

656
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 6: The prosecutors emphasized that despite all this emotional devastation that

657
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 6: he had been putting her through in the journal, Angela

658
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 6: never ever wanted to die. She never ever mentioned she

659
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 6: was feeling suicidal. She just was feeling unloved. The defense

660
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 6: did not dispute that fit the affairs occurred that she

661
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 6: alleges in this journal, but did not allow this to

662
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 6: be characterized as motive without more direct proof. So they're

663
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 6: not going to say this was the motive for him

664
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 6: getting rid of her anything like that. I still think

665
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 6: it's because that to our phone call. I think that's

666
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 6: kind of when he was like, okay, that's it.

667
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 2: What do you think he talked about for that two

668
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: hours when he was on the side of the road

669
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: with his I don't even know young and in the car,

670
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, what would you guess?

671
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 9: Maybe?

672
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 3: Where are you?

673
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 9: Or you?

674
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 6: Why aren't you home? What are you doing in Montana?

675
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 3: Why is there this? Yeah? Where?

676
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: I mean, any numbers for our children? While are you're

677
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 2: not home helping care for them? Don't you have to

678
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 2: be at work in the morning. Didn't we declare bankruptcy

679
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 2: two times? Yet you're gallivanting in Montana? I mean yeah,

680
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,719
Speaker 2: two hours would go by in a blip, right.

681
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 6: And by the way, this is interesting. All the women

682
00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 6: that he had all these affairs with testified that he

683
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 6: was like love bombing and like over texting them even

684
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 6: know this time, we've all been love bombed, right, It

685
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 6: kind of feels good for a minut and you're like, wait,

686
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 6: what's going on here? So he was he was saying

687
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 6: that he was separated, he was saying he was divorced.

688
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 6: He was saying he was married to some because some

689
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 6: didn't care because it's a sugar babies, right, they don't care.

690
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 6: But in other cases he was saying you separated, and

691
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 6: he would just be love bombing these women and they

692
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 6: would be backing off like this is like he said

693
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 6: to one of them, he said, I really want you

694
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 6: to meet my children, and she was like, that's like

695
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 6: we just met, like.

696
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 2: What And by the way, in case you don't know

697
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 2: what love bombing is, that's kind of when you know,

698
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: you meet somebody and they just they love you up.

699
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 2: They give you so many compliments, they love you immediately,

700
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 2: and they give you so much attention. It can feel

701
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 2: intoxicating and exciting, and it's sometimes just purely a con

702
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: and a way to get you sort of excited and distracted.

703
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: So it's like excessive amounts of texting and saying I

704
00:35:58,440 --> 00:35:59,919
Speaker 2: love you within twenty four hours.

705
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 6: You know.

706
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 3: It's just like when it's a lot.

707
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: Sometimes they're really just getting you know, warmed up to

708
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: play you.

709
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 3: Right.

710
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 6: Like So here's like an example, like can I can

711
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 6: I read? Like one of the text is it's a

712
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:17,799
Speaker 6: little okay, but this was, uh he says this. So

713
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 6: many things I can't write now because I'm trying to

714
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 6: get through this day without being two turned on the

715
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 6: whole time, and he was like, Swaynicle, Nigel, my eternal

716
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 6: love and may Heaven let us bloom together forever, like

717
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,240
Speaker 6: eh bar first, I know, right, like ooh gag.

718
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:35,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

719
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 6: And then you know, eventually these texts that he was

720
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 6: sending would turn to sexting, which, of course, if you

721
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 6: don't know what sexting is, it's basically it's phone sex

722
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 6: over texting. Is that a good way to describe it?

723
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: Yes, very suggestive, And.

724
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 6: So they would they would turn to sexting more often

725
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 6: than not, and yeah, it's just so crazy. And he

726
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 6: would say the problem is that I might be completely

727
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 6: in love with you after three days and that's nuts.

728
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: And so, sir our youth, I.

729
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 6: Would block him, do you know what I mean?

730
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 2: I'd be like, that's a rule of advice, right when

731
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: that kind of thing happens. Yeah, it's a read block

732
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: block block block block block.

733
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

734
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 6: And in one of the girls, he said she was

735
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 6: concerned that she was breaking up his marriage, and he was,

736
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 6: you know, she didn't want to participate in fidelity and

737
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 6: she said to him, I have a strict line about

738
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 6: not being in more than one relationship at a time,

739
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 6: and then he would continue on with the divorcing narrative.

740
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 3: Well, listen, we will keep you up to date as

741
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 3: this child comes to a close. So listen.

742
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 2: Right before we came on air, there had been an

743
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 2: active shooter, you may know, in midtown, New York. Five

744
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 2: reported dead. We are incredibly sad to report many injured.

745
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 2: Motive unknown, and the killer, it appears, has killed himself

746
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 2: and the area is safe and our hearts are with

747
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 2: all things in New York right now. You know, Corney,

748
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: I know it's been upsetting you, even just during the

749
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 2: break as we're hearing new information. So honestly, we should

750
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 2: have started that at the top of the show. So

751
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: we're getting these left dates live in real time. So again,

752
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 2: if you have any information that you want to share

753
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: with us in the audience. Eight eight eight three one crime.

754
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.

755
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: Body move in.

756
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, court there was one in Reno today too, in

757
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 6: Reno today too, at a casino. Yeah, in Nevada.

758
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, these shootings are so pervasive, they are

759
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 3: just the part of it's just sickening and the multitudes

760
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 3: that they're happening that it's almost I mean, these are tragedies,

761
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: each and every one of them, and they come so

762
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 3: fast and furiously. Children The most likely way that a

763
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 3: child will now die is gunshot.

764
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 6: It's crazy.

765
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 3: How about that?

766
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 6: Is that true?

767
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

768
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: Really I didn't know that either.

769
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 3: Are you serious leading cause of death? Yeah, I'll get

770
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 3: you the person. I believe, No, I just to but

771
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 3: it's it's insane. And yeah, Stephanie, just to update on this,

772
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 3: the NYPD, the FBI and other agencies, they did respond

773
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 3: so quickly and go New yr And this incident began

774
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: just before six thirty pm Eastern and everything was secured

775
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 3: by eight pm. No motive determined. And just beware if

776
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: you are in New York, you should avoid parking Avenue

777
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 3: between East fifty first and second because it's locked down.

778
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 3: But to see there's a picture it's harrowing of the

779
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: shooter walking in and the ar style rifle. I mean

780
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: it looks three feet long. I don't know, it's sort

781
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:52,880
Speaker 3: of from from the hip almost to the floor.

782
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 6: How is that possible?

783
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: And this guy was again really young, So you know,

784
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: I fear that this is what happened. When we applaud

785
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 2: the Luigi Mangiones or Mangiones of the world for being

786
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: these young predators that have a statement. How do you

787
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: walk into a building with the rifle and take out

788
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 2: people who are just hard working midtown? If you don't

789
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: know New York City that area, I mean, I think

790
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 2: many of us have lived right there, myself included. You know,

791
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: it's the center of New York City. It's a real

792
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: big banking you know, part of the city. You know,

793
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 2: people go there for lunch and you know you've seen

794
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: working girl in New York City. Everyone's on foot, so

795
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: you're really vulnerable.

796
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. By the way, I just double checked myself body

797
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 3: when you asked. And yeah. Beginning in twenty twenty, firearms

798
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 3: are passed car accidents motor vehicle accidents to become the

799
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: leading cause of death for children and adolescents age one

800
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 3: to nineteen.

801
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh. So this morning at seven am, a

802
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 6: gunman approached the valet area outside the Grand Syria Resort

803
00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,399
Speaker 6: and casino and reno and began firing at a group

804
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 6: of people. One died un scene, one died in his car,

805
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 6: two remaining critical condition. Five people were shot in total,

806
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 6: so there's like three Rita.

807
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 3: This is Sandy.

808
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: So you know, listen up, we're going to solve something.

809
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 2: We all need to know how to fix this stuff.

810
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, I mean, I don't know the

811
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 6: I don't know the answer. I mean, is it a

812
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 6: mental health issue in this court, this country combined with

813
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 6: our you know, love of weapons, I don't know.

814
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 2: I mean, and even the weapons. Take it or leave it,

815
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: whatever your decision is, but the mental health check prior

816
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:35,439
Speaker 2: to getting one.

817
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:36,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't know.

818
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 2: Curious what you guys would think, you know. Please again

819
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 2: heavy combo eight eight eight three one crime. Join the conversation.

820
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 2: But next up we have duran Oh Fear, our pop

821
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 2: culture expert who's going to talk with us a little

822
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 2: bit about Menendez. But again, jump in, join the combo.

823
00:41:51,560 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 2: This is true crime tonight. And now we're being joined

824
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 2: by true crime pop culture expert Doronto Fear. He's logging

825
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: in as we speak. But first we have to go

826
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 2: to a talkback.

827
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 9: Man.

828
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 8: I tell you you guys are killer of this no

829
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 8: pun intended, especially about that fill it down on Birmingham,

830
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,880
Speaker 8: murdering all those people. It's a darn shame. I can't

831
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 8: believe it's so educated. I wish the National News would

832
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 8: pick this up because it's something I just.

833
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 9: Heard about it here.

834
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 8: Then we're fifteen minutes outside of Birmingham.

835
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 9: It's great to see it getting attention.

836
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 8: But you're doing a great job.

837
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:37,399
Speaker 9: I no, thank you very much.

838
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 2: I love it. Yeah. So this is the story that

839
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 2: Joseph brought us. We didn't even a passion one for

840
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 2: him too. He's been following it so closely.

841
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 6: Eighteen eighteen people that this guy has killed. It seems

842
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,400
Speaker 6: to be a contract kind of killing, but he was

843
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 6: also involved in some personal vendetta killing as well. And

844
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 6: he's basically a serial killer because he was doing all

845
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 6: these killings throughout Birmingham twenty.

846
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: Twenty years old, twenty multiple lounges and a fire department.

847
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 6: He shut a fireman, but he was apparently fired to

848
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 6: do this.

849
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 3: I don't know well, because that the fire department when

850
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,399
Speaker 3: he went it was because I'm fairly certain that the

851
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:24,760
Speaker 3: man who he killed the fire the fireman was slated

852
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,240
Speaker 3: to testify.

853
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 6: Oh against one of his because apparently he's in some

854
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 6: kind of like drug ring.

855
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 3: This suspect allegedly.

856
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,759
Speaker 6: We learned about this yesterday, so we're kind of just

857
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 6: learning about it too, but it is very interesting and

858
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,440
Speaker 6: it is something that we're definitely going to keep following on.

859
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 2: Why is that not breaking news everywhere? Also, the eighteen

860
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: people is a tremendous amount of human beings, so you know,

861
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 2: it hasn't been on the ticker of any of the

862
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,720
Speaker 2: those curioutional radio shows.

863
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,400
Speaker 6: I was curious yesterday because we were talking about what

864
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 6: an impact this made on Birmingham's crime statistics, right, like

865
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 6: it greatly inflated the level of crime that Birmingham is experiencing.

866
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 6: And so I was like, well, let me go look

867
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 6: and see, and sure enough, it's like ten percent. Wow,

868
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 6: of Birmingham's crime. That's fattering that year.

869
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 3: Twenty two year old is so yeah, We're so happy

870
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 3: and where That's one of the great things about Joseph

871
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 3: Scott Morgan, not just his knowledge and his way of

872
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 3: delivering knowledge in a really understandable way, but also the

873
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 3: cases that he finds and is passionate about. There's another

874
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 3: I wanted to give you guys an update on a

875
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 3: case we have been following really since June second when

876
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 3: it happened, and that's with Travis Decker, and he is

877
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: the man who has been accused of killing his three

878
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 3: young children, all three girls under ten, And there has

879
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 3: been a just really herculean effort by many multiple federal

880
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: and state agencies and just today authorities that they have

881
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 3: sharply reduced their efforts. And that's because after nearly two months,

882
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: there's just there's a lack of credible leads and they

883
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: have almost literally been looking for a needle in a

884
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 3: haystack in these Paul Treed mountainous areas.

885
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 2: There's no way he's still living on There's no way

886
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: or he's in Canada as planned. Wasn't that his initial

887
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: plan when this all happened, and he was, you know,

888
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 2: on the lamb with his three lovely daughters to go

889
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:33,839
Speaker 2: on a camping recursion.

890
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 6: And yeah, prior to him taking them out into the campsite,

891
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 6: he had been looking for, you know, how to get jobs,

892
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 6: to gain Canada and how to immigrate to Canada. You know,

893
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 6: he was very Canada centric.

894
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,759
Speaker 3: So let's me zoom he's there, Like, why wouldn't he be?

895
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,600
Speaker 6: Well, our CMP would be looking for him too, though

896
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,759
Speaker 6: they may be in a Canadian Mounted Police. They're amazing,

897
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 6: by the way, they are an incredible organization.

898
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 3: Right are they? Like particularly specifically trained in something, or

899
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 3: they're just.

900
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 6: They're just they're based. They're kind of very similar to

901
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 6: our FBI, like internal, you know where like the CIA

902
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 6: is external, you know, with investigations and whatnot. It's internal Canada.

903
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,239
Speaker 6: So in Canada, this is a tangent. In Canada, they

904
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 6: don't have Basically, the RCMP will act as local police.

905
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 6: Like if you live in a small area in Canada,

906
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 6: your local police station is the RCMP.

907
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 2: That's so interesting and very It's very effective by all accounts.

908
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 2: So that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's very interesting. Well, I mean, listen,

909
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 2: I hope that's the case and that he's not at large,

910
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 2: because we do know he's suffered from mental health issues,

911
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 2: was unmedicated and had potentially murdered three of his children,

912
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,240
Speaker 2: so he would be very violent at that point.

913
00:46:54,400 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 6: So Canada can give us us some insight. If you're listening,

914
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 6: give us a call.

915
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 3: Cynthia.

916
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 2: Cynthia, Cynthia speaking of give us listens about and we

917
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: have doron O Fear who is joining us, our true

918
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 2: crime pop culture expert of greatness.

919
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,640
Speaker 9: Hi, welcome, Hi everybody.

920
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 6: I'm waving at you like people can hear me.

921
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 2: So Menendez brothers were We're excited to hear your unpack

922
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 2: on what you think about what's happening with the new

923
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: developments in the Menendez brother case and the fact that

924
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 2: one of them is suffering from kidney stones and may therefore,

925
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 2: you know, be released sooner maybe than anticipated. Both brothers,

926
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: of course, are are trying to be released from prison

927
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: in many categories actually, and that could happen as.

928
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 3: Soon as next month. What do you think of that?

929
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 2: I know he had a big conversation regarding the possibilities

930
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: of that Governor Newsom did with the scripted Ryan Murphy,

931
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:57,720
Speaker 2: who made the show.

932
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 3: What do you make of all of that? So, just

933
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,840
Speaker 3: as a quick backdop, this was about a week ago.

934
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: There was the Monsters, the Lyle and Eric Menendez story,

935
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 3: which is what Ryan Murphy created, that scripted series that

936
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,000
Speaker 3: you mentioned. So he appeared on a podcast with California

937
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 3: Governor Gavin Newsom and it was to discuss the Menendez

938
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:28,120
Speaker 3: brothers because Governor Newsom's decision on their parole is coming close.

939
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 3: So anyone who's been asleep for a couple of decades,

940
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: Lyele and Eric Menendez are serving life in prison sentences

941
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 3: for murdering their parents. They were convicted in nineteen ninety

942
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 3: six of first degree murder and conspiracy. But the judge

943
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 3: is suggesting that he may be eligible for parole.

944
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 6: Well, they're going to go in August, right, August twenty

945
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 6: first and twenty second, is that right?

946
00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,799
Speaker 3: That's still on, That's still on.

947
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: But one of them may be you know, obviously badly

948
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: for Luner because of this furlough situation, which you know

949
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:07,759
Speaker 2: must be complicated.

950
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 3: I don't know. Yeah, so Ryan Murphy, he had publicly

951
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 3: admitted that when he began the series he believed the

952
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 3: brothers should never be released. However, throughout the process of

953
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 3: producing it, he ended up supporting the parole due to

954
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 3: the age that they were at, due to all of

955
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,280
Speaker 3: the rehabilitation and all of the backing from the family.

956
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 3: So I think that way is really heavy with me.

957
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 3: Is how strongly so true? You know, both sides by

958
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 3: their family.

959
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 6: Oh there he is?

960
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 9: Hello, issues high everybody?

961
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 3: Hello.

962
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 2: So yeah, we were just doing a little filling in

963
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: on the latest developments with this Menendez brother potential release.

964
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,759
Speaker 9: Well, you know, I have such an interesting take on this,

965
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 9: and I'm probably an opposite of what you guys are

966
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,239
Speaker 9: talking about. I look at it again from a pop

967
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 9: culture and sort of a political the effects of pop

968
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 9: culture on true crime and politics and everything else. And

969
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 9: I find it really interesting that Ryan Murphy decided to

970
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,479
Speaker 9: go on Kevin Newsom's podcast and then discuss this because

971
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 9: it's such a hot topic, sort of populist issue. But

972
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 9: when you break it down, Ryan Murphy's interview kind of

973
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 9: highlighted the fact that he and into this with a

974
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 9: preconceived notion of their guilt. Now we do know that

975
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 9: the crime happened, and we do know that they did

976
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 9: what they did. The question was the court system and

977
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 9: whether that second trial would have changed their verdict into

978
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 9: the where they was. There was a manslaughter charge within it,

979
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 9: which would have held then at the time, a maximum

980
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:48,240
Speaker 9: sentence of thirty years, and that's really the sticking point here.

981
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 9: And I think that Ryan Murphy then said, oh, if

982
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 9: I knew now and I knew then, and I was

983
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 9: sort of I came out of it thinking they should

984
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 9: be released. It's really a question of the failure of

985
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 9: the courts at the time, and with all the new

986
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 9: evidence that came out about the abuse, you know, I

987
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 9: think it's definitely something to consider. I just think that

988
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 9: it's a very sensational element, and I find it very

989
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,960
Speaker 9: odd that the person that swayed Ryan Murphy's opinion was

990
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 9: Kim Kardashian.

991
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 3: Mmmmmm hmmm.

992
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 6: Well, they have a hapeass corpus argument too, because they

993
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 6: because of the second trial, right because this letter, their

994
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,359
Speaker 6: abuse was not allowed to be entered into court. They

995
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 6: had two separate trials, so they have, like I feel

996
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 6: like they have several pathways for release, would you guys agree.

997
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,400
Speaker 3: Yes, one hundred percent? And the habeas corpus this is

998
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:43,439
Speaker 3: this is new, this is you know, seven weeks old

999
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 3: or something in the scope of something that's been going

1000
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 3: on for thirty plus years.

1001
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 6: So well, the judges asked the prosecutors to explain why

1002
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 6: this you know, of these the trial went the way

1003
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 6: it did, Like the judges basically come out and said,

1004
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 6: you need to explain by the state, and I don't

1005
00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 6: have the date off the top of my head, why

1006
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 6: why they trial happen this way?

1007
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: What do you make of that?

1008
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 3: Though?

1009
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: It seems so not customary to have to go back

1010
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 2: to a prosecutor of yesteryear thirty years later to.

1011
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,760
Speaker 3: Say why, why, why what happens?

1012
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 2: If they're not satisfied with a prosecutor's answer, Are there

1013
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 2: possible charges related to that?

1014
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:22,919
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1015
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 2: Them, No, I'm a prosecution No, I don't think so.

1016
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 6: I don't think there's a I don't think there's think it.

1017
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,799
Speaker 9: Comes down to whether or not the Attorney General is

1018
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:38,360
Speaker 9: willing to not really open the case. It's basically change

1019
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,120
Speaker 9: the verdict so that they are up for parole, that

1020
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:43,959
Speaker 9: it's not you know, a consecutive life sentence or whatever else.

1021
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,799
Speaker 9: And you know, my personal opinion is it was a

1022
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 9: really brutal crime. They did murder their parents in a

1023
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 9: very barbaric way. And although there's so much publicity and

1024
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 9: sensationalism from a pop culture perspective, it was so you know,

1025
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 9: big in the new and there were so many questions

1026
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 9: going back and forth about even after they did it,

1027
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,360
Speaker 9: then they went on a shopping spree and you know,

1028
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 9: was it all trauma and does the trauma excuse the

1029
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:10,680
Speaker 9: murder and everything else? I think that all of that

1030
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 9: is valid. But I do think that now we're looking

1031
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,920
Speaker 9: at what thirty five years in prison, they were model

1032
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,760
Speaker 9: citizens thought in the moment that they got in. Yeah,

1033
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,600
Speaker 9: they have changed the course of what their redemption and

1034
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,960
Speaker 9: if the prisons system is really for redemption.

1035
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 3: It is.

1036
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 9: They are kind of an example of that.

1037
00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:29,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1038
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 6: In fact, they started like a program to take care

1039
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 6: of like the elderly people who have grown old in prison,

1040
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 6: and I thought that was really nice. And additionally, like

1041
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 6: some of the officers in prison, the corrections officers are

1042
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 6: like writing letters and going down speaking at their parole

1043
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 6: hearing on there that just what model citizens they've become

1044
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 6: and how they've enhanced prison life for the other inmates

1045
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 6: to make those people, you know, rehabilitate, because it's not

1046
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 6: just them that are rehabilitating, and the things that they're

1047
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 6: doing are helping other inmates do.

1048
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 3: So it's a change.

1049
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:05,759
Speaker 9: That's the part that I think that people need to

1050
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 9: take into consideration. And I think they need to take

1051
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,080
Speaker 9: into consideration that after thirty five years, if they would

1052
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:14,000
Speaker 9: have been sentenced under the other guidelines, then they would

1053
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 9: be released. Now you can go back and say the

1054
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 9: crime that they did warrant life in prison, and then

1055
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 9: that's where you go into well, wait a minute, because

1056
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 9: the trial did exclude a lot of the sexual accusations

1057
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 9: of molestation, and since then we now know that other

1058
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 9: accusations have been leveled against the father, including you know

1059
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 9: the story between behind the.

1060
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 2: Menuto Yeah, the Menudo brother dren hold that thought. We're

1061
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 2: going to talk about what you guys are watching. What

1062
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 2: who wants to go first?

1063
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,840
Speaker 9: W I gotta jump in on this. I'm waiting to

1064
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 9: do this since the show started, and this all goes

1065
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,440
Speaker 9: to you Body. So you know, my favorite.

1066
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 4: One of the reasons I got so obsessed with true

1067
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 4: crime is because of Don't Have with Cats, And when

1068
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 4: that came out, I was astonished the way they told

1069
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 4: that story on that documentary on Netflix, and it came

1070
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 4: out in twenty nineteen, and the way they told the

1071
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,359
Speaker 4: story was nonlinear because they went from the armchair detective

1072
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:14,320
Speaker 4: to tell.

1073
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 9: The most brutal murder that I have ever known. And

1074
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 9: because I'm a pop culture and I sort of make

1075
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 9: the connection of Hollywood film or the influence of pop

1076
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 9: culture and true crime, this was the one because when Magnata,

1077
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 9: Luca Magnata, did his murder, he really embodied Sharon Stone

1078
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 9: and he wanted to be Sharon Stone in basic instinct.

1079
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,240
Speaker 9: And for those that don't know what this documentary is about,

1080
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 9: Body was the star of it.

1081
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 3: She was the.

1082
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 9: Brilliant armchair detective that told the story. It was told

1083
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 9: with humor and depth, heart and empathy, and it was

1084
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 9: the most brutal crime because this was cannibalism. It was

1085
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 9: performance art, it was theater direction, lighting direction, and he

1086
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 9: filmed it as the first ever real true snuff film

1087
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 9: to ever hit the Internet. And as a backstory to this,

1088
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 9: my personal connection to this was back when it happened.

1089
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 9: I received that link and I clicked on that link

1090
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 9: in a morning before going to work, and I was like,

1091
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,359
Speaker 9: what is this? And I didn't know it was real,

1092
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 9: and it was horrifying to me because I didn't watch

1093
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,280
Speaker 9: the whole thing. But he's dressed in this black leotard

1094
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 9: dancing around with a nice pick. And when I went

1095
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 9: to work, I had a meeting with my staff and

1096
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 9: I said to them, I got this really weird link

1097
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 9: and it sits really badly with me, only to then

1098
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 9: follow it in real time in the news as this

1099
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 9: worldwide manhunt came out because the video was real. And

1100
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 9: then years later I pop on don'ts with Cats, not

1101
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:50,360
Speaker 9: knowing it's the story of that same video, and lost

1102
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 9: my mind. And it's a must watch if you have

1103
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 9: not seen it. It's still on Netflix and Body, you

1104
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 9: are brilliant in it.

1105
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more of you so much. That was

1106
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 2: also just to kind of add to that, you know,

1107
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: same for me, I was it was COVID and I

1108
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 2: watched DONUF with Kats, and as I've said many times,

1109
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,160
Speaker 2: I feel like it changed my DNA. I fell in

1110
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: love with you as a viewer and as a fellow

1111
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 2: justice person.

1112
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 3: You know, you really inspired me.

1113
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,200
Speaker 2: And then you know, cut two years later, Courtney and

1114
00:57:23,200 --> 00:57:26,160
Speaker 2: I are at crime Con and we see you in

1115
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: the quoering room and I thought like tackled you because

1116
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 2: it was like, oh my god.

1117
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 3: Oh my god, there she is.

1118
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,400
Speaker 2: I feel like we've chosen even cases to work on

1119
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: internally at KT or documentaries because of that shift in

1120
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:46,720
Speaker 2: perspective and the power of sometimes real community and group

1121
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: thought and your ethics and how wisely you came full

1122
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: circle on the knowings in that.

1123
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, we are six degreeing right now.

1124
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 6: I'm kind of speechless for the first time ever.

1125
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 3: I don't wan to say it was Okay, I'm about

1126
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 3: to sound like a real creep body, and I did

1127
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 3: not know deron that you were going to talk about

1128
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 3: Don't F with Kats, So this is separate of that.

1129
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:17,600
Speaker 3: This weekend I went back and rewatched a first honk

1130
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 3: of Oh you are magnetic, you just are. I was

1131
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:24,840
Speaker 3: so compelled and I think I might have told you

1132
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 3: this before, but when I watched it, it was also

1133
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: same as Stephanie sort of during COVID and you were

1134
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,960
Speaker 3: literally almost too good to be believed. Because what I

1135
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 3: did was I went to IMDb. I'm like, am I

1136
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 3: watching a scripted series?

1137
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,840
Speaker 6: I get that All the time people asked me I

1138
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,920
Speaker 6: didn't know you were an actress and or you know,

1139
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 6: what else have you been? What else have you acted in?

1140
00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 6: And I'm like, what are you talking about? You'd be

1141
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:49,360
Speaker 6: a great actress, though, would you be? Should we have

1142
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 6: you on the bolt? Actress?

1143
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,680
Speaker 2: Definitely young and restless, young and the.

1144
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:59,760
Speaker 6: Wrestler, the female. That's when I get rock there.

1145
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 2: No, but life is still long. But you would be

1146
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,440
Speaker 2: a great on some There were.

1147
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:10,080
Speaker 6: So many like missteps in like that quote unquote investigation

1148
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 6: that it was a It was a learning lesson. And

1149
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 6: you know, I try to, you know, preach like the

1150
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 6: tenets of ethical sleuthing. It falls on a lot of

1151
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 6: deaf ears, but you know, I get a little irritated

1152
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:24,840
Speaker 6: a lot because I get a lot of calls from

1153
00:59:25,080 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 6: press when there's like something with sleuthing happening on the internet,

1154
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,120
Speaker 6: and they'll be like, so, what do you think of

1155
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 6: everybody blaming the roommates in Idahoe because I'm all worthing,

1156
00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 6: and I'm like, I have nothing to do with that.

1157
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 6: I don't. I don't do that kind of stuff. You know.

1158
00:59:39,400 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 6: I do things very quietly, you know what I mean, and.

1159
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:48,400
Speaker 2: With intention bettering the world right and making us safer,

1160
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 2: right and making us more aware and working alongside of

1161
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 2: law enforcement. We're not looking to direct things right, absolutely not,

1162
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 2: you know, metal well you know.

1163
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,760
Speaker 9: But one of the things about that incredible series was

1164
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 9: the way that they told the narrative. And it was

1165
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 9: a failure of police procedure because the armchair detectives, the

1166
01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 9: home investigators, they had been signaling that this was going

1167
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,720
Speaker 9: to happen, and it fell on death here. And so

1168
01:00:16,800 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 9: that's one of the biggest tragedies of this is they

1169
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 9: could have saved the life of the victim if they

1170
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 9: just would have followed up and listened to what the

1171
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 9: red flags that had been brought forward.

1172
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:28,880
Speaker 6: And that's all we wanted it was a knock on

1173
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 6: the door. You know, we knew that there wasn't anything

1174
01:00:31,560 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 6: they could really do, you know, because he was just

1175
01:00:33,960 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 6: making threats online and killing cats. But we just wanted

1176
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:39,320
Speaker 6: a knock on the door, That's all we wanted. And

1177
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:40,720
Speaker 6: they couldn't. They wouldn't do it.

1178
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 3: And I mean the valiant effort that you guys put

1179
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 3: in you particularly, is unbelievable. Listen, this is true crime tonight.

1180
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 3: We would love you to join our conversation where at

1181
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,240
Speaker 3: eighty eight three to one Crime and we are joined

1182
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 3: by pop culture expert Doronto fear Right. Now we're talking

1183
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 3: about what we're watching in the true crime genre, and

1184
01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 3: we would love to hear do you have anything that

1185
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 3: we should be watching? So give us a call, hit

1186
01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 3: a talk back, smoke signals, whatever you got, body, is

1187
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 3: there anything that comes to mind?

1188
01:01:15,120 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 2: I know what you're going to say. I know what

1189
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:19,640
Speaker 2: you're going to say.

1190
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 6: Let me practice go for I proposed I think last

1191
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 6: week or the week prior to last week, that I

1192
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 6: wanted us to watch Amy Bradley is Missing on Netflix

1193
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 6: together and then I wanted us to have conversations about

1194
01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 6: it on the show and get listener involvement and have

1195
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 6: us all kind of sleuth this together as like a

1196
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:44,920
Speaker 6: learning exercise. But somebody here went behind my back and

1197
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:47,720
Speaker 6: watched it in one sitting because it's so good.

1198
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: Wait, Courtney, you watched all of it? I am wait,

1199
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 2: you watched Wait.

1200
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 3: That is not how the book club works.

1201
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,080
Speaker 2: It's not even a book, I know. Okay, we don't

1202
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 2: have to do fight club movie talk like we need rules, ladies.

1203
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 2: I didn't watch it, you know how just what I

1204
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 2: was to watch, you guys.

1205
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,920
Speaker 6: Okay, So I watched episode one, Like I said a

1206
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 6: couple of weeks ago, I watched episode one, and I'm hooked.

1207
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 6: And then I'm on I'm on X and TikTok and

1208
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 6: guess who's popping up? Amy Bradley's brother. So let me

1209
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,760
Speaker 6: start at the beginning. Amy Bradley and her family went

1210
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 6: on a cruise. And while they were on a cruise,

1211
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,920
Speaker 6: they went to a club, and you know, Amy's dancing

1212
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,160
Speaker 6: with you know people at the club, and then she

1213
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:43,600
Speaker 6: is with her brother. No, no, no, this is episode this

1214
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,320
Speaker 6: is this is just very brief. She's out smoking a

1215
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 6: cigarette with her brother. He goes inside. The dad wakes

1216
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:52,720
Speaker 6: up at five thirty in the morning and he sees

1217
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,160
Speaker 6: Amy on the patio smoking a cigarette, lounge in on

1218
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:58,760
Speaker 6: the patio. He falls back asleep. At six o'clock. Half

1219
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 6: an hour later, she's gone and nobody has ever seen

1220
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,560
Speaker 6: her since her And by the way, her lighter and

1221
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 6: cigarettes were also gone.

1222
01:03:05,440 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 3: Okay, so her brother, you guys.

1223
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 6: This okay, but the brother didn't kill her, no, of

1224
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 6: course not, no, of course not. So her brother is

1225
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 6: releasing a bunch.

1226
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 3: Of like evidence alleged.

1227
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:24,800
Speaker 4: What is.

1228
01:03:27,520 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 3: Where?

1229
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 9: What is your thinking, president is where was the brother's motive?

1230
01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 9: Who saw the brother going into his room?

1231
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,080
Speaker 6: Well, the dad, dad saw her. The dad saw her

1232
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 6: on the balcony alone, because the brother went to bed.

1233
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:46,360
Speaker 6: The brother is definitely not involved, I say that. But okay,

1234
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 6: but the brother is dropping evidence on his ex accountant

1235
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,360
Speaker 6: and his TikTok of like sightings of her, photos of

1236
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 6: her that people have seen. There's there's a revelation that

1237
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 6: she might have been sex traffic because she met assist

1238
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 6: in the band that was like like yellow yellow or

1239
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:05,000
Speaker 6: did he kill her?

1240
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 3: And this is a diversion tactic, That's what.

1241
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 2: I will talking about, say right now with his eyes.

1242
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 2: So your suggestion is that nobody saw the this is terrible.

1243
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 3: We don't know this brother. I don't know this brother.

1244
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 6: I don't like you guys.

1245
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:21,439
Speaker 3: Okay, no, no, okay, we'll take it down.

1246
01:04:21,560 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 2: That would not be ethical rights in her last, and

1247
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: that is part of the investigation.

1248
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 3: Typically the first person.

1249
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 2: Who saw the victim last is always a suspect.

1250
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 6: I will say that this documentary is is asking for

1251
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 6: reform on cruise ships because when Amy Bradley went missing,

1252
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 6: they wouldn't even stop the disembarkment at the next stop.

1253
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 6: What yeah, like the cruise that the cruise director was like,

1254
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 6: the cruise must go on, like we must.

1255
01:04:49,240 --> 01:04:55,400
Speaker 9: You know, that's a huge issue. This happened constantly technically

1256
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:59,760
Speaker 9: independent nations floating on international waters that are governed by

1257
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 9: any individual country. So the captain becomes the all sales,

1258
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,520
Speaker 9: which is the dictators assaults, things that happen on cruise ships,

1259
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,040
Speaker 9: which is a long history of This is one of

1260
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:13,520
Speaker 9: those gray areas and it's one of those ray ares

1261
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 9: where the investigation is hampered because you can't really get

1262
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 9: into it. When you think about it, if this was

1263
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 9: a private nation floating, that nation is bought paid for

1264
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 9: by a conglomerate. It's a corporation so they're only answering

1265
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 9: to actually the funding of the cruise ship, which is

1266
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 9: a really scary thought. So this time people not to

1267
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 9: feel safe on a cruise. I'm just saying, you know,

1268
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:34,880
Speaker 9: like anything, be.

1269
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:38,760
Speaker 6: A cruise, be mindful of your surroundings. This documentary could

1270
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 6: change the way some cruises operate because people are outraged

1271
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 6: that the cruise like basically didn't do anything. This woman

1272
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 6: went missing and they didn't do anything.

1273
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 2: So again, this harkens back again covid brain. But remember

1274
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,560
Speaker 2: when like you got anyone got sick on a ship

1275
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:55,960
Speaker 2: back in the twenty twenties and they all had to

1276
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 2: like just live there forever and ever and ever at

1277
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:02,600
Speaker 2: trapped in their rooms, sewage was overloading, et cetera. Is

1278
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 2: that under the same principle that they were not therefore

1279
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,280
Speaker 2: governed by the same rules. Interesting, I didn't know this

1280
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:11,440
Speaker 2: little tidbit of a Oh yeah, it's crazy rock.

1281
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 3: Have I've been living under?

1282
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:12,960
Speaker 4: What?

1283
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,880
Speaker 3: Well, listen, when we come back, we're going to figure

1284
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:19,320
Speaker 3: out which rock Stephanie is living on. Doran is going

1285
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 3: to help us do it, and he's also going to

1286
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 3: fill us in about a case that's been sort of

1287
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:27,600
Speaker 3: keeping him up at night. After that, we're going to

1288
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:30,520
Speaker 3: be turning the mic over to you. Do not forget

1289
01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 3: to give us a call. We're at eighty eight three

1290
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 3: to one crime. We want to hear your thoughts. I'm Steph.

1291
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 2: I'm here with Courtney and Body, and we're joined by

1292
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 2: our very own Dorano Fear, our pop culture true crime expert.

1293
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 2: And yeah, he's been filling us in a little bit

1294
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 2: about the Menendez update. Obviously one of them may be

1295
01:06:57,880 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 2: released very soon. And as I say that, we actually

1296
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,480
Speaker 2: have a talk back. Let's go to that first.

1297
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 10: I've noticed there are so many scripted adaptations of true

1298
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,960
Speaker 10: crime stories being made, like the act about Gypsy Rose Blanchard,

1299
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 10: Monster and Dahmer by Ryan Murphy, both starring hot actors

1300
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,080
Speaker 10: as the killers, the Ted Bundy adaptation starring Zac Efron,

1301
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 10: and the list goes on. I get that they create

1302
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:20,480
Speaker 10: conversation and introduce people to true crime, but overall, I

1303
01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 10: think they do more harm than good because they prioritize

1304
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 10: entertainment and shock value over education or victim advocacy. What

1305
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 10: do you guys think, Well.

1306
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 6: Charlie Hunan's going to be playing at Gean right, I mean, like, hello, Jack,

1307
01:07:33,880 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 6: I get more hands. He is going to be playing

1308
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 6: like one of the worst monsters of our modern history.

1309
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 3: It's crazy. Yeah, I agree with her.

1310
01:07:41,840 --> 01:07:47,480
Speaker 9: I agree with you know it. It's funny. I am conflicted.

1311
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 9: I'm going to use Ryan Murphy once again. You know,

1312
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 9: I'm obsessed with talking about him. But he takes the

1313
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 9: sexuality of horror to a whole new level. And when

1314
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 9: he did Dahmer, he does these low panning shots that

1315
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 9: are very cinemagraphic in nasure where he's like working out

1316
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 9: a shirtless and sweaty and what he does is he

1317
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:13,560
Speaker 9: creates a hyper sexual component to villains and monsters, and

1318
01:08:13,600 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 9: that's a very dangerous thing that we've entered into in

1319
01:08:15,720 --> 01:08:17,639
Speaker 9: this time. And as a pop culture person, I've been

1320
01:08:17,640 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 9: watching this go down really since the two thousands, and

1321
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,559
Speaker 9: even in Disney, they've taken the villains and they've turned

1322
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 9: them into hero You know, it's great to watch the Cruella.

1323
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 9: I think it's one of the best Disney live made movie,

1324
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 9: live action movies of a fictional character. But you are

1325
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 9: retelling the story when they released DC Comics release The

1326
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 9: Joker watching Feelingxes. You know, this is a psychopath killer

1327
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:46,120
Speaker 9: that up until it was unheard of until the nineties,

1328
01:08:46,160 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 9: where you would take a villain and turn them into

1329
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,879
Speaker 9: an anti hero. And that's a question about pop culture

1330
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,000
Speaker 9: in any kind of a setting, whether they're beautiful actors

1331
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,679
Speaker 9: playing the role, or whether it's the story being told.

1332
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 9: And that's a question to ask the listeners, because how

1333
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:04,600
Speaker 9: are you being shaped by that concept, that idea, that narrative,

1334
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,720
Speaker 9: when evil may not be so evil, when good is

1335
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 9: no longer good or.

1336
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 2: Even We talked about this earlier, and Doraniene and I

1337
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 2: have talked about this, you know, outside of the show.

1338
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 2: It is a little confusing that we're cherry picking these

1339
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 2: origin stories.

1340
01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:19,519
Speaker 8: Right.

1341
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 2: So, while I do agree with you, the Menendez brothers

1342
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:26,440
Speaker 2: do seem as though they are the most exemplary prisoners imaginable,

1343
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 2: and they have repented. If in fact they were mischarged,

1344
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 2: then yeah, they've already served their time, likely plus five years,

1345
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 2: so they should be good to go. They got their educations.

1346
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:40,880
Speaker 2: But because of the Ryan Murphy Show, and because of

1347
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: the documentary, I'm sure there are so many other cases

1348
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 2: that therefore deserve another look with the same level of compassion.

1349
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:51,919
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that the Menendez brothers should not be released.

1350
01:09:52,360 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 2: I just think it's confusing that not everybody gets that

1351
01:09:55,120 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 2: same benefit.

1352
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 9: Right, well, but that's a I mean, we praise that

1353
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 9: that is a story where there could be a positive take,

1354
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 9: but when you take Dahmer, there is no positive take,

1355
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 9: no true He was a vicious, predatory psychopath and the

1356
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 9: families of those victims suffered an enormous amount, and there

1357
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,240
Speaker 9: is no reason to make him idolized in a version

1358
01:10:19,560 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 9: that becomes psycho sexualized. You know those glasses which for

1359
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 9: those that can't see me right now, I am wearing.

1360
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 6: I wear mine all the time too.

1361
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:33,080
Speaker 9: It became a fashion icon. Yeah, and that is scary.

1362
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 9: It is a scary thought.

1363
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,320
Speaker 6: I you know, I'm on social media quite a bit,

1364
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 6: and you know, on my algorithm of course is going

1365
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,720
Speaker 6: to show me all the true crime stuff and by association,

1366
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,639
Speaker 6: the Dahmer. And there were video after video after video

1367
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,360
Speaker 6: of men and women, you know, with the Dahmer character

1368
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 6: on the screen in the workout, shirtless, sweating, just like

1369
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,000
Speaker 6: with the fan on them just going oh he's so hot,

1370
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 6: and I'm like, I'm those repulsed. One of my most

1371
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 6: viral videos is in response to one of those peoples.

1372
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 9: This is something new we know, you know, there are

1373
01:11:07,320 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 9: very stories of people who fall in love with these

1374
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 9: serial killers and write the love letters, including the me

1375
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 9: Nindaz brothers who like fell in love and got married

1376
01:11:13,720 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 9: with the woman by his side. It happens all the time,

1377
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:19,880
Speaker 9: the Memphis three. So there is an element that is

1378
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:24,120
Speaker 9: to me off kilter. And now add visuals and cinemagraphic,

1379
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,320
Speaker 9: you know, artistry to it. We're walking a dangerous slow I.

1380
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,680
Speaker 3: Don't know, Devil's advocate. Is it also a way of

1381
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 3: packaging and story that should be told and people should

1382
01:11:34,960 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 3: know about. And you make the packaging a little better.

1383
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:40,920
Speaker 3: I don't. I mean, I guess I'm hearing wrong when

1384
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:44,679
Speaker 3: you guys are saying people are legitimately idolizing the Damer

1385
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:48,120
Speaker 3: because even you know he was wrapped in a handsome package.

1386
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:52,920
Speaker 3: I was horrified when I I mean horrified when I

1387
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 3: was watching it. But I don't know, I'm a little

1388
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 3: conflicted about this.

1389
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,160
Speaker 2: And to add on to that, Courtney Armstrong, you know

1390
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 2: that takeaway. I haven't seen that scripted version in a while.

1391
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 2: And Dahmer is the scariest of all of them, so

1392
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 2: let that not be you know, forgotten. But I remember

1393
01:12:08,080 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: the father the portrayal of his father was very meaningful

1394
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:15,840
Speaker 2: and different than I had perhaps known. So in that

1395
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:20,200
Speaker 2: regard the scripted version of the Dahmer case, wasn't Dad

1396
01:12:20,280 --> 01:12:22,719
Speaker 2: sort of an interesting character in that and a unique

1397
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: take on it.

1398
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 3: He loved his son so much.

1399
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 9: Well, Rymer. He loves to do that. He loves to

1400
01:12:27,400 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 9: tell an origin story from trauma, and he did that

1401
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:34,320
Speaker 9: with the assassination of Gianni VERSACEI remember that character and

1402
01:12:34,400 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 9: gave it a whole backstory with a father and trying

1403
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 9: to make it seem like that serial killer. Andrew was

1404
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:42,600
Speaker 9: not exam you know, Andrew Carnannan. Another connection I have

1405
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:44,600
Speaker 9: to him because I used to run night clubs in

1406
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:46,719
Speaker 9: Miami and he came to my club during that time.

1407
01:12:46,840 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 2: Oh wow.

1408
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 9: I didn't let him in, and he really came and said,

1409
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 9: you know, I'm you know, King of San Diego, and

1410
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 9: I kind of laughed and I was like, fine, you

1411
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 9: can go inside, and he then came back outside saying

1412
01:12:57,520 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 9: he wanted a band to get into. VIP was like,

1413
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 9: and by the way, this is the day before the

1414
01:13:02,120 --> 01:13:03,320
Speaker 9: assassination of Versachi.

1415
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:03,880
Speaker 6: Shut up.

1416
01:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 9: Yeah. And so it was a very interesting time living

1417
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 9: in Miami at that and the whole world died him.

1418
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:12,599
Speaker 9: I have my own theories about that that we can

1419
01:13:12,720 --> 01:13:16,080
Speaker 9: postpone to another episode because I do believe that he

1420
01:13:16,320 --> 01:13:18,600
Speaker 9: wasn't the murderer of AASACEI I think he was a

1421
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,759
Speaker 9: serial killer. I think he killed all those other people,

1422
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 9: but he was very convenient at the time to nail

1423
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:27,479
Speaker 9: it on. Didn't promise me.

1424
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:29,200
Speaker 6: That you're going to come back and talk about says,

1425
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 6: I am obsessed with that one.

1426
01:13:31,479 --> 01:13:32,720
Speaker 2: Wait, I killed him then.

1427
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 9: And by the way, if you really want Ryan Murphy's

1428
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,160
Speaker 9: the assassination of Gianni Rissachi, he actually allude to the

1429
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,240
Speaker 9: other version of the story, whether it spiracy or allegedly.

1430
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 6: Okay, Kelly, you and I are going to talk because

1431
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 6: I'm pleased. I am dying to hear what you have

1432
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 6: to say about this, But I also really want to know. Hey,

1433
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 6: if you have to weigh in, give us a call

1434
01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 6: at eighty and eight thirty one Crime. We want to

1435
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:57,280
Speaker 6: know what you have to say about what we're talking about.

1436
01:13:57,320 --> 01:14:00,360
Speaker 6: What do you think about, you know, sexualizing these killers

1437
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 6: in these script of TV shows. Give us a call

1438
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 6: at eighty eight thirty one Crime or leave us a

1439
01:14:04,439 --> 01:14:07,160
Speaker 6: talk back on the iHeartRadio app doron. I also have

1440
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 6: to know about this Matrix situation, these Matrix killers.

1441
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 9: Well us, that's really why I came in.

1442
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,680
Speaker 6: You know, I know we're getting so excited about it.

1443
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 2: I know, I was like, the Matrix murders tell us everything.

1444
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:22,880
Speaker 9: Well, for me, it's about the concept of when reality

1445
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:26,839
Speaker 9: glitches and what happens when people believe they're no longer

1446
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 9: in this life time, they're no longer in this timeline,

1447
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 9: they are in a video game simulation. Does that give

1448
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,320
Speaker 9: them the excuse to murder? And in two thousand and three,

1449
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 9: Joshua Cook murdered his adoptive parents with a shotgun. He

1450
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,000
Speaker 9: wore a trench coat, he idolized Neo.

1451
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:45,679
Speaker 6: He's the Matrix.

1452
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 9: He was inside the Matrix. Now, The Matrix came out

1453
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 9: in nineteen nine nine, you know, it hit theaters. It

1454
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 9: changed the world. It gave us the infamous red pill

1455
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 9: and made you think that everything you are is not real.

1456
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 9: But what happens when that's psychosis is then adopted into

1457
01:15:01,120 --> 01:15:05,759
Speaker 9: real life. And Joshuacook used the Matrix as his defense,

1458
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 9: which is a really crazy concept, basically saying that he

1459
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 9: wasn't living in the real life what they do is

1460
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:16,280
Speaker 9: they take away the humanity of the victim and basically

1461
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 9: say that they're just code. That they are not killing them,

1462
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:24,840
Speaker 9: they're unplugging them, they're freeing them. And that to me

1463
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 9: is a really scary psychosis. Now I connect it again

1464
01:15:27,960 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 9: to pop culture, and it is something that makes me fascinated.

1465
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 9: Whether pop culture instigates this or not, you know, but

1466
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 9: when victims are not made human that I find to

1467
01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 9: be terrifying. And he's not the only one, because you know,

1468
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 9: he was considered the Matrix killer, that's what they dubbed

1469
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,479
Speaker 9: him in And going back to Spurts defense, the judge

1470
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 9: did throw that out, but that maintained a defense that

1471
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 9: happened over and over again. And I can go back

1472
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,800
Speaker 9: even earlier because in nineteen ninety nine, the very year

1473
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 9: the Matrix came out, two teens in Illinois, Daniel Gill

1474
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:00,879
Speaker 9: and Robert full Are, murdered a friend. What they described

1475
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:05,200
Speaker 9: was Matrix style alternate reality. To them, it wasn't murder.

1476
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 9: They were living inside a video game. And in two

1477
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 9: thousand and two, Tondolin Ansley Shawn her Land lady in

1478
01:16:12,520 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 9: the head in broad daylight, and she told the police

1479
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 9: then that this isn't real world. We're in the matrix.

1480
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 6: Oh my god.

1481
01:16:18,720 --> 01:16:21,640
Speaker 9: And this is a narrative, This is a psychosis, This

1482
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:25,400
Speaker 9: is a glitch in the in the main frame, and

1483
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 9: this is something that we need to consider as we

1484
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,360
Speaker 9: still deal with mental illness that consistently is feeding a

1485
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,960
Speaker 9: narrative that we are in a different timeline, that we're

1486
01:16:34,040 --> 01:16:37,200
Speaker 9: not real that we're simulations, that we're living in a

1487
01:16:37,280 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 9: VR world, and it's worth the discussion.

1488
01:16:42,960 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 8: Our world.

1489
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:48,000
Speaker 3: Well, it's so relevant Doron. I just this past weekend

1490
01:16:48,040 --> 01:16:51,719
Speaker 3: I was listening to I don't remember where the article

1491
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,000
Speaker 3: was from. It was Vanity Fair, it was something, but

1492
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 3: it was about how chat GPT is some people are

1493
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 3: being pushed to suicide and a lot of it is

1494
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:09,920
Speaker 3: the cause of Yes, through through conversations, you are living

1495
01:17:09,960 --> 01:17:12,680
Speaker 3: in a matrix and you are you know, you're the

1496
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:14,840
Speaker 3: only one who knows what's going on around you, and

1497
01:17:14,880 --> 01:17:18,280
Speaker 3: it's very similar to what you're talking about, and it's terrifying.

1498
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:20,920
Speaker 9: Look, we're dealing with the world right now. That is

1499
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:24,760
Speaker 9: very that it's being influenced and the AI situation is

1500
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:26,760
Speaker 9: something we can discuss in another time because I also

1501
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:28,559
Speaker 9: again have a lot of experience with AI and how

1502
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 9: it actually functions from a psychological level. And I played

1503
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 9: with it enough to know how it can manipulate you.

1504
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,760
Speaker 9: I find it fascinating, and you know we have to

1505
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 9: then relying on the course. And you know, when it

1506
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:42,960
Speaker 9: comes to the matrix defense by the way, you know,

1507
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:46,520
Speaker 9: they say that it's something called the cod Arts delusion,

1508
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 9: and that's where individuals believe they're dead or that nothing

1509
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:52,879
Speaker 9: around them is real. And it's a deep personalization disorder

1510
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 9: where people feel like they're watching themselves from outside of

1511
01:17:55,360 --> 01:17:58,720
Speaker 9: their body. So this is a real syndrome. And you know,

1512
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 9: look again to do movies and media on pop culture

1513
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 9: sort of you know, life imitate art. I don't know.

1514
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 9: But you can also take Lee Boyd Malbo who is

1515
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 9: the DC Sniper from two thousand and two, and while

1516
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 9: not a matrix specific case per se, he did say

1517
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 9: that the matrix was part of his psychological framework. He

1518
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 9: wrote references about the red pill, and he claimed that

1519
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 9: he was trained in the matrix. So inspiration is that

1520
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 9: what this is?

1521
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 2: It sounds so mind numbingly scary.

1522
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,640
Speaker 6: So it sounds like, yes, I think so too, But

1523
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,840
Speaker 6: if it's a known illness, it must have been going

1524
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 6: on prior to the Matrix movie release in the ninety nine,

1525
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:39,080
Speaker 6: right like it has to be, But we're going to

1526
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:40,720
Speaker 6: shelve that for another discussion.

1527
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:42,600
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us for so long. I

1528
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 2: know we kind of held you hostage. We also want

1529
01:18:45,240 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 2: to make sure that people can learn more about your

1530
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,719
Speaker 2: comic con greatness and where they can buy tickets.

1531
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 3: Give us the scoop you're on.

1532
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 9: La ComicCon is coming. I know San Diego just happened,

1533
01:18:55,560 --> 01:18:57,960
Speaker 9: that's not mine, but La comic Con is and it

1534
01:18:58,040 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 9: is coming in September and tickets are on sale right

1535
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 9: now at lacomic Con dot com Iconic.

1536
01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:07,840
Speaker 2: Just like you're Doran, you are iconic, and you're going

1537
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:09,679
Speaker 2: to come back and talk to us a lot more

1538
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 2: about the Andrew Kunan case and the alleged killing of Versace.

1539
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 2: So can I just say on the docket for next week,

1540
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:19,040
Speaker 2: get okay?

1541
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:23,720
Speaker 6: So to our audience and our friends and our community,

1542
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 6: you are going to have to watch the first season

1543
01:19:26,280 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 6: of Monsters. I think it's the first season. It is

1544
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:32,120
Speaker 6: the first one. It's by the way, it's my favorite one.

1545
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,800
Speaker 6: It is so good. But if he's coming back to

1546
01:19:35,840 --> 01:19:39,919
Speaker 6: talk about this, I want everybody to be prepared because

1547
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:43,439
Speaker 6: it is mind blowing. And a side note is a

1548
01:19:43,520 --> 01:19:47,400
Speaker 6: tali in with don'fa Katz. Luca was kind of fascinated

1549
01:19:47,439 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 6: with him. So that's kind of like a full circle moment.

1550
01:19:50,920 --> 01:19:54,200
Speaker 6: Right we have me who you know whatever, and then

1551
01:19:54,200 --> 01:19:56,800
Speaker 6: you have Doran, who like knew this dude, and I

1552
01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:58,360
Speaker 6: don't know, it's just kind of a weird. I'm feeling

1553
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,880
Speaker 6: a little trippy right now. It's all full circle. Listen yet,

1554
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 6: table we are in the matrix? Has there been a

1555
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:08,200
Speaker 6: glitchen good line is there?

1556
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 2: Well if that's the case, we will definitely be back

1557
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,719
Speaker 2: here tomorrow, so there's no glitch in that timeline, I promise.

1558
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: And as a reminder, we're here Sunday through Thursday. Hit

1559
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:21,440
Speaker 2: us up anytime at True Crime Tonight's show on Instagram

1560
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:24,880
Speaker 2: and TikTok or at True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

1561
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:26,040
Speaker 3: You could also leave us.

1562
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 2: A message old school on a voicemail eight eight eight

1563
01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:32,360
Speaker 2: to three one crime, or you could always leave us

1564
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,000
Speaker 2: a talk back which is this little like voice memo.

1565
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 2: Just download the iHeartRadio app for free and in the

1566
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,720
Speaker 2: top right hand corner you push this button, leave a

1567
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,679
Speaker 2: little message and boom. You are on the show, so

1568
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:47,400
Speaker 2: keep them coming. We're getting all of your messages about

1569
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,479
Speaker 2: new cases to be following, and we're we're digging in.

1570
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:53,160
Speaker 2: So if you didn't hear it right away, I promise

1571
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 2: we're we're all doing the research and we can't wait

1572
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,360
Speaker 2: for tomorrow. Well we'll be back talking about way more.

1573
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 2: Bill Gelaye Maxwell be released. I guess that's the burning question.

1574
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:05,960
Speaker 2: She can't be We'll see.

1575
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 3: I will say, I don't know, I did not know.

1576
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,320
Speaker 3: I actually her walking out. I don't By the way, doron,

1577
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 3: I know everyone's already called out dibbs on stuff we

1578
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 3: need to talk about with you in your next back,

1579
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,040
Speaker 3: and I want to throw one other thing out to

1580
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:22,880
Speaker 3: put on your dance card, assuming you can come back

1581
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,919
Speaker 3: and waltz with us, which is someone had a callback

1582
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:27,439
Speaker 3: about Rebecca Schaeffer.

1583
01:21:28,160 --> 01:21:30,439
Speaker 6: Oh and so.

1584
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,759
Speaker 9: For that, the stalking, the first of the stalking murders

1585
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 9: and by the way, one of the most tragicab old time.

1586
01:21:36,520 --> 01:21:40,560
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right, So I personally would like your expertise

1587
01:21:40,600 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 3: on that.

1588
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 2: So we all have I told Courtneys, all you have

1589
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:47,280
Speaker 2: to say is Rebecca Schaeffer and you'll go from there.

1590
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:48,360
Speaker 2: Because it's such a case.

1591
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:50,920
Speaker 9: It's so close to our my sister saying, I mean

1592
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 9: it was Hollywood Dark History, and I'd love to bring

1593
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,640
Speaker 9: a guest on that show with Menora.

1594
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 3: Claire, oh wreck, Oh my goodness, speak about the matrix.

1595
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:05,400
Speaker 3: This won't make sense to many people, but I worked

1596
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,760
Speaker 3: on a show forever that was a paranormal show, and

1597
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:13,519
Speaker 3: Leonora Claire was on one of the most beautiful, bright,

1598
01:22:14,160 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 3: brilliant human.

1599
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:18,799
Speaker 2: Beings and a tremendous advocate for stalking in the world.

1600
01:22:18,880 --> 01:22:21,520
Speaker 2: So we'll have her on to join us in that conversation,

1601
01:22:22,240 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 2: Petion exactly, So shout out to Leonora. We'll have you

1602
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:28,960
Speaker 2: on very very soon. And I'm crazy for you, guys.

1603
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:32,360
Speaker 2: This night has just flown by so quickly. Is each

1604
01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 2: of you so very very much and again out there,

1605
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 2: thank you for just like hanging with us, sending so

1606
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: much love your way as well. Have an incredible night,

1607
01:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 2: Stay safe. This is true crime tonight. We're talking true

1608
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:45,240
Speaker 2: crime all the time.

1609
01:22:46,000 --> 01:23:04,560
Speaker 6: Bye everyone, Bye bye,