1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: It's party time. Did he actually say that it's party time? Oh? 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: Yes he did. It's party time, says the X as 3 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: he records a seven hour torture murder session of a 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 1: gorgeous young nurse and mother. How dare he he recorded it? 5 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: That's how I know he said it's party time. Good evening, 6 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. I want to 7 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. 8 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: Catherine Torbick is a beloved nurse and devoted mother known 9 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: for bringing warrants and positive energy everywhere she goes, until 10 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: her light is brutally extinguished when she suddenly stops answering 11 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 2: her phone. Police rush through her home and find her responsive. 12 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: Incredible, and I'm going to get to veteran defense attorney 13 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: Franz and boorcarts in just a moment, and hear him 14 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: tell me how that recording is inadmissible and nobody will 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: ever hear it, and that it doesn't mean anything. And 16 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 1: this guy is the mental illness and the blaw and 17 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: the blaw. But first, before I hear all that, Cacaphany, 18 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: I want to go straight out to a special guest 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:30,639 Speaker 1: joining me. It is Maria Acapiato, a very dear friend 20 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: and co worker of Kat Torbik. May she rest in peace? 21 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: How can she rest in peace? I do not know, 22 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: because she is leaving behind a twelve year old little boy, Jackson. Okay, Maria, 23 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to thank you for being with us tonight. 24 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 3: Thank you. 25 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning. When did you learn something 26 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: had gone horribly wrong with Kat? 27 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: So last last week Thursday, you know, my boss was 28 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 3: messaging me that telling me that they could not get 29 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: a hold of Cats her other work because she has 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 3: three jobs. So I message Cat and I said, where 31 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: are you? And I'm hoping you're okay because I know 32 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 3: the whole situation on what happened to her and back 33 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 3: in March, and and I have this bad feeling and 34 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 3: see that there's gonna be something coming for her. 35 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, this is just near to me. So I 36 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 4: just I can't process this like right now. 37 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 3: But so when we found out later that she was murdered, 38 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 3: they found her that night on Thursday. So this is Friday, 39 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 3: the next day where I found out. And I just 40 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,919 Speaker 3: talked to her on Thursday, I mean Tuesday that week, 41 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 3: and we were just having a great conversation and talking 42 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 3: about her, you know, event that she's going on on Saturday, 43 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: and she had her hair done and she looks gorgeous 44 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 3: as she always does, and then she's just gone dot 45 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 3: we It's so unexpected, and I knew that that's gonna 46 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 3: happen to her. And I've been telling her a bunch 47 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: of times, a million times that she needs to get 48 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,519 Speaker 3: out of there because in that safe for her, I'm 49 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 3: just gone. 50 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 5: I'm sorry with us. 51 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: Is Maria Acipiato, a very dear friend, a co worker 52 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: of cats, And you're seeing what crime does, the incredible 53 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: wake of devastation it leaves behind. Can you imagine what 54 00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: her twelve year old son is going through? This is 55 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: this woman looks like a model. I've never seen a 56 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: bad photo of her. She aside from being beautiful on 57 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: the outside, she's beautiful on the inside and worked three 58 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: jobs to support her little boy who is just jurn twelve, jackson, 59 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: and he is at that moment. You know, when I 60 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: had children, I couldn't imagine they would need me any 61 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: more than when they were little babies and they needed 62 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: me for them to live and survive. But when you 63 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: get to eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, those are some of 64 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: the most critical years in their lives, and now he 65 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: doesn't have a mother what I believe to be the 66 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: single most important person in your life. She's gone, and 67 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: under such horrible circumstances. Maria. I want you to tell 68 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: your story, but I've got to follow up on a 69 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: few things that you said. First, she mentioned she's working 70 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: three jobs. I know, one was at was it a 71 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:00,080 Speaker 1: hospital or a doctor's. 72 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 3: Office, So she's been working there Lutheran General, so she's 73 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 3: been working there for almost twenty years. And then she 74 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 3: works here at a med spa. She's an injector. She's 75 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 3: one of our amazing injector. She's been here with us 76 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 3: for I guess over four years. And I've known cat 77 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: for around five years because I work with her some 78 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 3: other med spa and then we moved to this med 79 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: spa here, so that's how I look at And she's 80 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: been always been an amazing human being around people, and 81 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 3: I just we just kind of got bonded because you know, 82 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 3: I'm a single mom and she's a single mom, and 83 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: it was just bonded with that in that sense. And 84 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: you know, she's been telling me about what's going on 85 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: in her life and how this man is controlling her, 86 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 3: and it was hard for her to get out because 87 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 3: you know, she's scared that she might lose the job 88 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 3: because he's like threatening her, Like why do you do 89 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: this to this human being? Like she's just wanted to 90 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: be a great do you know, mother to her son, 91 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: and that kid has always been the number one priority 92 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: for Kat And. 93 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? I'm curious when you 94 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: say Jackson, her little boy was her number one priority. 95 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 1: How did she evidence that. 96 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 4: She's always there for him. 97 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: I know their interaction because I've seen it like so 98 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: many times. You know, sometimes she'll bring Jackson to our 99 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 3: work and you know, my boss is pretty amazing. They 100 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 3: just wanted they're okay with it. I mean, he's older anyway, 101 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 3: and you know so because nobody's watching him. So she 102 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 3: always does a lot of things for her son, and 103 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 3: she talks about him constantly, how you know, like you know, 104 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 3: worried about his future is going to be, Like she 105 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 3: needs to work this much to provide for him. It's 106 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 3: just like a lot going on in her life when 107 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,279 Speaker 3: it comes to that. But also this ten year relationship 108 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 3: with this monster that that killed her, it's just it's 109 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 3: just you know, I just I can't even put my 110 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: head in. 111 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: You stated that you had a quote bad feeling, and 112 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't want anyone to discount that because I have 113 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: had so many family and friends of murder victims say 114 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: I had a bad feeling. That morning, I tried to 115 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: find him her. I called around because I just had 116 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: this overwhelming dread. I've heard it over and over and over. 117 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: It's like a sixth sense. What was your bad feeling. 118 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 3: When it started off back in March when he almost 119 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 3: I love her. 120 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 4: I told her to I. 121 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 3: Was watching a documentary somehow that night before I want 122 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 3: to work the next day, and when this all happened, 123 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 3: and she told me what happened, and you know, I 124 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 3: saw all the bruises. She showed it to me. She 125 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 3: had some stuff going on in her eye and I 126 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 3: was like it was healing. She has some cut on 127 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 3: her neck and said, Kat, this is really bad and 128 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 3: I want you to get out of there now. Like 129 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: I was watching this documentary last night and I I, 130 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 3: you know, I saw this woman they're getting being beaten 131 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: and killed by their spouses and whatnot. And I don't 132 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 3: want to see you in that sense where on TV 133 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 3: or in the news in that sense, and she's like, oh, 134 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,680 Speaker 3: I'm gonna definitely work on that. And I was like, 135 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 3: but it's not about working on that. You need to 136 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 3: get out now. 137 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 4: And then I and it's like, so, what happened to him? 138 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 3: Did they found him? 139 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 6: They? 140 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 3: And she's like, no, they didn't. And I was like, Okay, 141 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 3: you're not concerned, Like I'm concerned for that. And you 142 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 3: call everybody that you know and look for him, because 143 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 3: it's not good for you to stay in that house. 144 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,040 Speaker 3: Wien who was still out there. I don't know what 145 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 3: he's doing hiding because you know he's got a warrant 146 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 3: for his arrests. 147 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to Maria Acipiado is Sabrina Franza. 148 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 1: She is investigative reporter CBS News Chicago. Sabrina, thank you 149 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: so much for being with us tonight. You heard Maria 150 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: referring to a March incident and I have the warrant 151 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: for that. It was awful what he did to her 152 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: in March, and she reported it to police. She even 153 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: gave a taped statement stating that she was afraid he 154 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: would kill her. That was back in March. Why is 155 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: he walking free? Sabrina Franza why was it he in jail. 156 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 7: We've pressed the Schomberg Police Department about that, because the 157 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 7: incident that you're referring to happened mid March, and they 158 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 7: told us that they went to the house forty separate 159 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 7: times trying to find him, in addition to other locations 160 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 7: that he was known to, frequent places of work, and 161 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 7: other neighborhoods surrounding this suburb of Chicago, Schomberg where this 162 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 7: crime happened. What they could not tell us though, was 163 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 7: when the last time was that they had gone to 164 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 7: the house, and later found out in the same audio 165 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,120 Speaker 7: recording that you referenced earlier, the seven hour long audio 166 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 7: recording of this gruesome murder, that he had been at 167 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 7: the house as early as March twenty second, which as 168 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:46,600 Speaker 7: we know, is much earlier than this crime actually happened. 169 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 7: So it is curious, and like I said, we keep 170 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 7: pressing the police department to figure out if you went 171 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 7: to the house forty times, if he was there a 172 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 7: few weeks prior to this crime happening, come their paths 173 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 7: didn't cross, how come he wasn't found Well? 174 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: Another issue is that he had to have a vehicle. 175 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,959 Speaker 1: Let me go straight out to a veteran defense attorney, 176 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: Franz Borkart, criminal defense attorney, founder of the Borcart Law Firm, 177 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, professor Louisiana State University, Franz, take off your 178 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 1: defense hat just for one moment. I'm trying to figure 179 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: out how in the h doublell this guy who tried 180 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: to kill her before, managed to roam free, including around 181 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,199 Speaker 1: her house, and not get apprehended. And now she's dead, Franz. 182 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: She gave police a taped statement where she predicts her 183 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: own death. She says, I believe he will try to 184 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: kill me, and there he was back at her place. 185 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 6: They didn't get him because that one they probably didn't 186 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:59,440 Speaker 6: take it as serious as it was, and two they're 187 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 6: probably case loadwise, this wasn't a priority to them. And 188 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 6: now she's dead. 189 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 1: Put him up. Did you actually just say this is 190 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: not a priority. She's dead, Franz. How to kill him? 191 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: A terroristic threat, which is threatening to harm someone a felony. 192 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: I think he tried to kill her before. I don't 193 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: think that was just an assault as it has been stated. 194 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: He held a knife on her, He beat her black 195 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,120 Speaker 1: and blue. She was in the hospital the last time. 196 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: How can that not be a priority. 197 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 6: So the reality is we're seeing this nationally that underfunded, 198 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 6: overwork police, they're not making these kind of arrests and 199 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 6: getting these guys, and it's not a priority because they're 200 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 6: doing triage in their jobs. And that is an unfortunate 201 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 6: and scary reality that we're seeing across the country. And 202 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 6: it is a priority, Nancy. But the unfortunate reality is 203 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 6: they're not going to get charged with any facet of 204 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 6: this crime. 205 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: He will Maria Acapiano. It is referred to as a 206 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:17,199 Speaker 1: previous domestic incident. It was much more than an incident, Maria. 207 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: He nearly killed her, then he held her at knife point. 208 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: He beat her horribly to the point she had to 209 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: be hospitalized, and somehow she managed to drag to a 210 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: neighbor's house. That's the only way she was saved last time, 211 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: and they did nothing. Now she's dead. 212 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 3: I'm just so mad about that, Nancy, because I feel 213 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 3: like nobody taken her seriously and she is serious about this, 214 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 3: and I told her, I was like, you know, we 215 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 3: can go with you, Kat, Like literally, we can do 216 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 3: whatever you need. We're always here for you. And I 217 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: just don't want you to be gone and like, you know, 218 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 3: like I just this bad feeling that I have is 219 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 3: not going a way. And you know, she's like, well, 220 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 3: I'm taking precaution, and you know, I change all the 221 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,680 Speaker 3: cameras inside the house, and and you know, like there's 222 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: some police I guess patrolling somehow. And I know, I 223 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 3: remember one time she brought in her son after that incident, 224 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 3: and and you know, like their interaction, she was just 225 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 3: worried about her son if she leaves him in the house. 226 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 3: But then there was one time also that she left 227 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,239 Speaker 3: her son and her son was been calling her constantly 228 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 3: saying that there's somebody in the house, like a noise 229 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 3: or something. And she's like, well, Jackson, you're just making 230 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: this upsete, But can't you don't understand, like send him 231 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: to the neighborhood's you know, house and stuff, and then 232 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: when you get done here, you can just pick him 233 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 3: up from that. Just just be you know, just be 234 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,960 Speaker 3: cautious because this man, they never found him. 235 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 5: You never know. 236 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: The reality is he would terrorize her and attack her, 237 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: knowing full well she had a twelve year old boy 238 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: that lived with her. Isn't that true? Yes? Yes, how 239 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: did you learn that she was killed? 240 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 3: So it was through my boss sent me this link 241 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 3: to a news that they and identified. They did not 242 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 3: identify her yet, but then my heart just sunk because 243 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,920 Speaker 3: when they saw when I saw the house in her 244 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 3: car is on the driveway, it's like that's cap Like 245 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: then I just start breaking down, like I can't even 246 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 3: you know, I was just crying, like I just I couldn't, 247 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 3: you know. It's my heart just like hurting at that 248 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: moment because I knew it was Cat. 249 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 5: That's how I found out. 250 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: Did you know immediately that she had been murdered? 251 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I knew that when they said that she you know, 252 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 3: the woman died from trangulation, and I was like I 253 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 3: already knew this. 254 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 4: I just I just don't know how to say it 255 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 4: to her so many times, like you know, this is 256 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 4: going to happen. He's gonna finish that job. Yet they 257 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 4: couldn't find him and that was worrisome for me. And 258 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 4: always message her and ask her if she's gonna be okay, 259 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 4: and you know, and watch her back and you know, 260 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 4: she has to be very careful. So don't know what 261 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 4: else too. I feel like I didn't do much to 262 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 4: keep her safe. 263 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: Do you know, Maria, how her son is holding up 264 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: her little boy. 265 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 3: I really don't know, and I'm pretty sure that he 266 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 3: is heartbroken because he loves his mom so much, and 267 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: I know their interaction. That kid is like a mama's boy, 268 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 3: Like he's always like with her constantly, they do things 269 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 3: together all the time. 270 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 4: Like I know his heartbroken. I'm going to see him 271 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 4: actually on our funeral on Friday. 272 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: Maria, thank you for being with us and speaking on 273 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: behalf of kat straight out to special guests joining us. 274 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensis Jacksonville State University. He is 275 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. He 276 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: is a star of a hit podcast, Bodybags with Joe 277 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. But for our purposes, he is a death 278 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 1: investigator with over ten thousand death investigations under his belt 279 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: and counting. Jo Scott, thank you for being with us tonight. 280 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:53,199 Speaker 1: This reminds me very much of what was done to 281 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,120 Speaker 1: at least two of the victims in the Idaho Sleighs, 282 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: where the females face is are horribly disfigured. Did you 283 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: know Joe Scott that before he says it's party time, 284 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,199 Speaker 1: did you hear that? Did you know that that may 285 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: it be part of your death investigation. But this guy 286 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: says it's party time and tapes himself on recording a 287 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: seven hour recording of a torture murder session. What were 288 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,720 Speaker 1: the extent of Cat's injuries, Joe Scott. 289 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 8: It's you know, the thing about it, Nancy, is when 290 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 8: you're trying to take the measure of these kinds of 291 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 8: injuries and the involvement that he had had in her life, 292 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 8: just think about this. This is not something that happened 293 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 8: just in that seven hour period. Okay, So you've got 294 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 8: injuries that are dating back sometime and you have this layering, 295 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 8: and that's one of the difficulties I think are one 296 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 8: of the complexities of trying to interpret these injuries. But 297 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 8: you know, with all of these injuries relative to like 298 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,159 Speaker 8: the ligature marks around her neck, you think about the 299 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 8: insults to her wrist and her ankles that goes to 300 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 8: restraint and these contusions that are associated with just being 301 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 8: absolutely obliterated a slammed blunt force injury over and over 302 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 8: and over and over again. And this is something in 303 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 8: the short term she had to endure for that period 304 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 8: of time. Here's one other kind of insight. And this 305 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 8: dates back from many years ago. I worked a serial 306 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,719 Speaker 8: killer that loved, absolutely loved to bring women to the 307 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 8: point of death and then he would release the ligature 308 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 8: at the last moment and they would regain consciousness, they 309 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 8: could breathe again. This smacks of this. I'm not saying 310 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 8: it's a serialized event. However, it goes to this issue 311 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 8: of torture, because can you imagine, just for a second, 312 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 8: everybody out there, if you've ever lost your breath, you've 313 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 8: ever been punched in the stomach, you can't breathe, and 314 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 8: you can't catch your breath, and then all of a 315 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 8: sudden it comes back and you can This happened to 316 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 8: her repeated numbers of time. Can you imagine? Can you 317 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 8: imagine the horror and the terror that this poor woman 318 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 8: had to live for is live through and endure not 319 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 8: just in the short term, but Nancy, in the weeks, 320 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 8: the months, maybe even the years leading up. 321 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: To this, Scott, have you ever studied cases where there 322 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 1: is an uncreation? In uncreation, the intentional removing of your 323 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 1: own or someone else's eyes. There are all sorts of 324 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: psychological and psychiatric implications of of that. But the first 325 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: time I encounter that was of course in inner City Atlanta, 326 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: and of course a murder case where the perp gouged 327 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: the eyes out of the female victim. And I didn't 328 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: know what that meant psychologically, right, but I knew it 329 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: was horrendous. That's when I first learned in uncreation. And 330 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: I find it very a very disturbing aspect of this case. 331 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: This guy no self harm at all. It was all 332 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 1: about torturing, disfiguring her, even trying to gouge her eyes out. 333 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 8: Yeah, and you have to keep in mind, Nancy, with 334 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 8: the gouging of the eyes that you have mentioned in uncleation, 335 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 8: this is not though people. I'm sure the people will say, 336 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 8: well you will die, that you can die for that 337 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 8: from that, But this is not like a gunshot woman 338 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 8: of the head, Nancy. This is a long, languishing kind 339 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 8: of thing. And this goes to an entirely to a 340 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 8: separate area here where we think about disfigurement, we think 341 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 8: about face covering. How many times have you and I 342 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 8: over the years talked about face covering when it comes 343 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,800 Speaker 8: to you know, these kind of familial events. And it 344 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 8: also goes to something else, this idea of I'm going 345 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 8: to break you down to the point where you're going 346 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 8: to be completely helpless. I mean all of us that 347 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 8: are are blessed enough to be sighted, right, we don't 348 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 8: think about you know, every day our senses. You know 349 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 8: where we're seeing things, we're reacting to things. If you 350 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 8: can rob if you can rob of an individual of that, 351 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 8: of that, that's the ultimate. Humiliation is also a torture tool, 352 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 8: and that speaks to this guy. He's trying to disfigure her, 353 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,959 Speaker 8: He's trying to debilitate her, and of course what does 354 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 8: it wind up in a torture related homicide. 355 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 9: Kaylee Gonsolves had already moved out of the King Roade home, 356 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 9: but returned to show her best friend Maddie her new 357 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 9: range rover. An officer on scene described her face as disfigured. 358 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 9: Kaylee's fatal injuries included a left lung laceration, a liver laceration, 359 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 9: two subdural bleeds, and a stab behind her clavicle which 360 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 9: cut hers of clavian vein and artery. She had signs 361 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 9: of sharp force injuries and blunt force injuries, and was 362 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 9: the only victim to suffer asphyxia injuries. 363 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 10: Kaylee Gonsolvez. We stabbed thirty four times. Her facial structure 364 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 10: was extremely damaged, leaving her unrecognizable. Due to the severity 365 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 10: of the stab wounds. She was identified by methods other 366 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 10: than simple visual recognition. Besides defensive marks on her arms. 367 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 10: Kaylee had a broken nose to brain bleeds and a 368 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 10: stab behind her clavicle which severed the subclavian vein and artery. 369 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: Justcott both KILLI Gonsolvis and another female victim I believe 370 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: Xana was. They were both horribly, horribly facially disfigured. In fact, 371 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Kelly had her teeth stabbed out. You know what, I'm 372 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: asking the wrong person. As great of a death investigator 373 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: as you are, I need a shrink. Doctor Sherry Schwartz 374 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: is joining US forensic psychologists specializing in capital mitigation and 375 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 1: victim at at panther Amitigation dot Com. She's the author 376 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: of and This is Significant Behavior and the One I 377 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: like the best, where law in psychology intersect issues in 378 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 1: legal psychology. Docter Sherry Schwartz the disfigurement of the female 379 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: victim in Kat's case. He beat her horribly all over 380 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: her body, but specifically her face and tried to gouge 381 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: her eyes out. What does that mean? 382 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 11: Well, at its most basic, the eyes are seeing the truth, right, 383 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 11: and they are full of judgment in his perception most likely. 384 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 11: But it strikes me that all of the photos that 385 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 11: I've seen of this young woman who's absolutely beautiful, her 386 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 11: eyes are captivating, and it makes me wonder if he's 387 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 11: interested in disfiguring her for pure sadism, which seems to 388 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 11: be a major feature of this set of crimes, but 389 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 11: also because he loved her eyes or other people complimented 390 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 11: her eyes, and so he was going to take that 391 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,439 Speaker 11: away from her. This ups the brutality of the crime 392 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 11: in my opinion. This makes him an extremely dangerous violent offender. 393 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,160 Speaker 11: The sexual nature of this crime. These are very rare 394 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 11: individuals and it's a shame that nothing was done to 395 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 11: prevent this. 396 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: To Franz Borgarde joining US Professor Lsu veteran criminal defense attorney, 397 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: I assume that you're going to argue some type of 398 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: mental defense, but let me advise you at the get go, 399 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: he was on prescription drugs. I don't know if he 400 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: was really prescribed drugs, but he had popped several of them, 401 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:49,360 Speaker 1: and let's just start with the knowledge that voluntary use 402 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 1: of drugs or alcohol is not a defense. Plus, he 403 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,919 Speaker 1: has got a horrible right. You need to hear this 404 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: before you comment. Franz Franza joining US investigative reporter CBS 405 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 1: News Chicago, Sabrina, what is his track record? What does 406 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: his rap sheet reveal? 407 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 6: Well? 408 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 7: Aside from this felony arrest warrant that was issued after 409 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 7: Kat went to the hospital after running out of her 410 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 7: own home and only being able to find help by 411 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 7: getting in touch with a neighbor that eventually called nine 412 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 7: to one one, that warrant was out for his arrest, 413 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 7: but he also had three orders of protection that were 414 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 7: issued against him, one of them possibly by a family member, 415 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 7: but all three by different people. So officers knew that 416 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 7: there was a concern about this person. They were warned 417 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 7: multiple times, and then, of course now he was taken 418 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 7: into custody after this most recent, most gruesome crime. But 419 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 7: they were completely aware of his background when Kat went 420 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 7: to them, and then of course when he was eventually arrested. 421 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,439 Speaker 1: It's my understanding that the alleged purp of course, he 422 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: is innocent until proven guilty. That goes without saying. But 423 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: let me stress it again. He had in the past 424 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: attacked a former wife, family members, and many others. They 425 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: had all taken out tpo's temporary protection orders against him, 426 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: and yet there he was sticking his foot in her 427 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: kitchen window, in other words, getting in her house. Do 428 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: we have any idea how many protection orders had been 429 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,160 Speaker 1: filed against him. 430 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 7: We know three from three different people, which creates, in 431 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 7: our eyes, a trend which is worth paying attention to, 432 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 7: especially when somebody's going to the hospital and filing a 433 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,040 Speaker 7: felony complaint against somebody saying, as you mentioned earlier on 434 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 7: tape in her tape testimony, that she thought that her 435 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 7: ex boyfriend was going to come back and kill her. 436 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,080 Speaker 7: In that first incident. She was asked in her testimony 437 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 7: to write a suicide note, which she actually started to 438 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 7: write based on what we're seeing from court documents, before 439 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 7: she was able to get out of the house, the 440 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 7: same house that her twelve year old son was sleeping, 441 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 7: and she tried to wake him up while this attack 442 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 7: was happening, was unsuccessful, and then eventually ran out of 443 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,120 Speaker 7: the house to seek help from a neighbor. So all 444 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 7: of these things combined should have raised these huge alarm bells, 445 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 7: and it just adds to how tragic this case is. 446 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: Nat Motkey faced numerous, numerous, let me say, brushes with 447 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: the law, several family members, even an ex wife another 448 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 1: ex partner had taken out orders of protection against him. 449 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 1: He at the time of Cat's murder, he had an 450 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: active wornant out for a domestic battery against her the 451 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: previous month. Yet there he was walking free. Okay, hold on, Franz, 452 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm hearing in my ear. We are now being joined 453 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: again by Marie Pereira, domestic violence expert, certified advocate and 454 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor and registered nurse. Marie, thank 455 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: you for being with us. Does it ever end? How 456 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: many protective orders do we need to take out on 457 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:36,479 Speaker 1: one walking crime wave? And now this beautiful mother is 458 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: dead at her son was at home during one of 459 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,880 Speaker 1: the attacks where he tried to force her to write 460 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: her own suicide. Note it's incomprehensible. 461 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 12: I think it's disgusting given all the facts that you 462 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 12: provided that we didn't really have, Nancy, so thank. 463 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 5: You for that. 464 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 12: The police were well aware of the urgency of the situation. 465 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 12: So when front said earlier it was a triage, even 466 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 12: if it was a triage. She should have been at 467 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 12: the top because of all you just described here, the 468 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:15,480 Speaker 12: prior orders from other people, the fact that he had 469 00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 12: her try to write a suicide note, the extent of 470 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 12: her injuries, the fact that they didn't search for him, 471 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 12: and their claiming they went to. 472 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 5: Look for him forty times. 473 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 12: How about you give her a panic button? 474 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 3: All right? 475 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 12: I understand they have other people who are being threatened 476 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 12: domestic violence. It's all about control, desperation on the part 477 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 12: of the abuser, and they can't be everywhere at the 478 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 12: same time. But I've had a situation like that in 479 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 12: my personal life. It wasn't me, but it was a 480 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 12: very close family member who was being taunted by someone 481 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 12: who heard her, stole her car, threatened to kill her. 482 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 12: And yes, they can't be everywhere, but they gave her 483 00:30:58,880 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 12: a panic button. 484 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 5: She lived with me, I had a panic button because 485 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 5: we knew he'd be back. How about a panic button? People? 486 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: You know what? Tell Marie? Tell it. I remember the 487 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: first time. This is when I was a brand new prosecutor. 488 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: This would have been in about oh gosh, around the 489 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: time of the Olympics in Atlanta, and we were so 490 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 1: proud because we got funding from Bell South to give 491 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: domestic violence victims a cell phone, and at that time 492 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: they're about this big. I mean they look like a 493 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: walkie talkie and we were so happy. And at the 494 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: Battered Women's Center where I volunteered at night, we could 495 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: give them to the women to call nine one one. 496 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: But your idea is much better, like the help me. 497 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: I'm falling and I can't get up. But what's wrong 498 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: with it? 499 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 5: Wasn't an idea, Marie. 500 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: I'm sick. 501 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 5: It happened. I was home, my family member was home. 502 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 12: We knew he was coming back the moment we heard 503 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,720 Speaker 12: a noise in the driveway. We were all scared. Right, 504 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 12: depress the panic button. It's that simple. They gave it 505 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 12: to us. 506 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 4: This was in Franklin Square, New York. 507 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 5: A few years ago. They caught him. 508 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 12: He tried to run away, but by the time he 509 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 12: ran away, they caught him and we had the panic button. 510 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 5: If she had one. All of what happened took seven hours. 511 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 12: It is disgusting that something like this happened in twenty 512 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 12: twenty six. 513 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: You know another thing, Maria Perira, Maria joining us tonight 514 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,239 Speaker 1: out of LA domestic violence expert she's a lawyer, a 515 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: former prosecutor, and a registered nurse. You know another thing 516 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: I hate is that we call it domestic abyse like 517 00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: it's warming, CAZy, like a hallmark. Maybe when I think 518 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: of domestic, I think of domicome, which, as you know 519 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: as a lawyer, is your home, where you live. It 520 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,720 Speaker 1: makes you think good smells in the kitchen and the 521 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: family at the supper table. It's really putting perfume on 522 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:13,720 Speaker 1: the pig seven hours Marie. 523 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 12: And you know what, even if they had served him 524 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 12: with the order of protection, he probably would not have 525 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 12: been kept in prison. 526 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 5: They probably would have released him in order of protection. 527 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 12: Nancy works when the person gives a damn about their 528 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 12: own life. But when they don't care, it's not a 529 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,880 Speaker 12: deterrence because they don't give a damn about what happens 530 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 12: to them. So he out her eyes out. You know why, 531 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 12: she found herself another man. She moved on, And that's 532 00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 12: the most dangerous time for victims, when they decide they've add. 533 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,400 Speaker 5: Enough look at him, look at her. Her new man 534 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 5: was probably much flier than him, and he knew that 535 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 5: it was it. 536 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 12: The jig was up, the threats, the everything she was 537 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 12: leaving him, and that's what happened. This is why the 538 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 12: police should have given her a panic button, so the 539 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 12: moment that loser stepped in her house, they would have 540 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 12: pulled up and protected her. 541 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 5: It was that easy, Okay, Barts. 542 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: I don't know how you're gonna follow Marie Pereira, but 543 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 1: have at it, and I will just give you a 544 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 1: gimme at the get go. These are allegations, and he 545 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: remains innocent until he is proven guilty before a court 546 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: of law and a jury off his peers. But another 547 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: caveat Borgarts is that he has the presumption of innocence 548 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: the rest of that sentence unless and until the state 549 00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: pierces that presumption with evidence proving him guilty beyond a 550 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: reasonable doubt. Okay, So that presumption can be pierced, and 551 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,879 Speaker 1: I predict it will be pierced, So have at it. 552 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 6: So I would lean into the fact that he did it, 553 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 6: that he had a mental health issue, and that, as 554 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 6: Maurice suggested strongly, the system failed not only her but him. 555 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 6: He needed help, He needed assistance, he never got it. 556 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 6: He snapped and killed her. Now that's assuming he lets 557 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,799 Speaker 6: me use that defense, Nancy. He can say I'm not 558 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:06,439 Speaker 6: hitting that. 559 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 5: Did you just say snap? 560 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: Let me see Bornhart. Did you say death is a show? 561 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: That's a show on oxygen? Snap? I snap? Snap is 562 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: not a defense. Okay, don't get up in front of 563 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 1: a jury. I'm just trying to help you out here 564 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: and say they snap because snap is not a defense. 565 00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: And even if it was, he taped it for seven hours. 566 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,240 Speaker 1: How is that a snap. 567 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 6: I'm not saying it's gonna work. I'm gonna say that 568 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 6: if I can, if I have the mental health, if 569 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 6: I have the mental health argument, I'm gonna lean into 570 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 6: anything I can lean into to get this guy a 571 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 6: lesser conviction, which is his saving grace. We can agree 572 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 6: to disagree on the defense, but this guy's win, if 573 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,719 Speaker 6: there is any kind of win at all for this guy, 574 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 6: is something lesser than the top charge. 575 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:58,520 Speaker 1: Okay, first degree murder, three counts, AG crim sex assault, 576 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: just off the top of my head, wild guess Chicago 577 00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: does not have the death penalty, just wild crazy guests. 578 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: So the most he's ever going to get is life 579 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: behind bars. Yet you think you can get him a 580 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: lesser offense based on what he grabbed somebody else's prescription 581 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 1: meds and gulped him down. 582 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 6: I think we've already discussed that he has a mental 583 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 6: health history. I think we've already discussed that the system 584 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 6: failed her, that the system failed her and failed him. 585 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 6: That would be the defense. I'm not saying it's gonna work, 586 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 6: but I don't want to choose the. 587 00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: Cards he failed. He has no known mental you know what, 588 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: Let's go to Sabrina. Sabrina Franza is joining US investigator 589 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: reporter CBS News. All I know is he gulped down 590 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: a bunch appeals. I know nothing about a mental health defense. 591 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,680 Speaker 7: Actually, court documents don't really say anything about a mental 592 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 7: health issue here. What it does talk about it is 593 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 7: that he appeared intoxicated when he was found by police 594 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,239 Speaker 7: after they showed up to Kat's home, and that he 595 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,400 Speaker 7: claimed that he had ingested two other types of drugs 596 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 7: pills that it's unclear whether or not he should have 597 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 7: had or not, and then he was taken to the 598 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 7: hospital for an evaluation. After that, they don't say anything 599 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 7: about his condition, but he was released from the hospital 600 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,920 Speaker 7: and then at that point was officially taken into custody 601 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,480 Speaker 7: and then later charge. But based on our reading of 602 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 7: court documents, it does not mention anything about any sort 603 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 7: of mental health history. 604 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:36,400 Speaker 1: Guys, you heard it from Sabrina Franza joining CBS. Okay, 605 00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: Franz Borkhart, there you go. You tried to slip that 606 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: in on me that we've talked about us mental health defense. 607 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:44,359 Speaker 1: No we didn't. You did. 608 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 6: I'm certainly going to have him evaluated, and shocker, he's 609 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 6: going to have a mental health issue. 610 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: He may be the most. 611 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 6: Violent human being in the world, but I would bet, 612 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 6: I would bet dollars to donuts Nancy that he has 613 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 6: a mental health issue. 614 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: I just bet you would. Dave mac what have I 615 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: missed regarding her injuries? Dave Matt, Crime Story's investigative reporter, 616 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: What have I missed? Because I want to circle back 617 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: to Joe Scott Morgan on these injuries. 618 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 13: On the tape, you could hear her screaming and pleading 619 00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:19,319 Speaker 13: for Mikey to not to get off of her and 620 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 13: to not put handcuffs on her. So we're going to 621 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 13: have injuries around the risk the assault escalated as he 622 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:29,240 Speaker 13: used duct tape to restrain Garbick. There might be markings 623 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,280 Speaker 13: from that sexually assaulted during the entire attack. The recording 624 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:41,720 Speaker 13: captured everything Nancy, and it was shocking beyond the pale 625 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:46,000 Speaker 13: to hear her pleading for her life, the injuries that 626 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 13: Joe Scott Morgan can break down leading up to and 627 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 13: including Nancy her death. 628 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:57,360 Speaker 1: Froz Borghart, how are you going to keep that tape 629 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 1: out of evidence? Because you actually hear her take her 630 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: last breaths, she's gasping. 631 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 6: I don't think that. I don't think I can keep 632 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,720 Speaker 6: the tape out of evidence, that's the problem, any better 633 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 6: than I can keep the prior incident with her out. 634 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,720 Speaker 6: I might be able to keep his prior non victim 635 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 6: related incidents with other family members out, but I think 636 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 6: the tape comes in, and if I'm asked how I'm 637 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 6: going to address it is I'm leaning into the fact 638 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 6: that this is clearly the antics and actions of a sick, 639 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 6: mentally ill human being. 640 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 1: Sick I agree with, but not mentally ill doctor Sherry Schwartz. 641 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: Why did he tape seven hours of torture, sex, assault, 642 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: beating and murdering cat? Why tape it and keep it 643 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: in his pocket next to his heart? 644 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 11: Fancy? The only logical explanation for that is that he 645 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 11: wanted to revisit the pain and suffering that he had 646 00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 11: caught somebody that he would probably proclaim to have loved 647 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 11: at least at some point in his life. The reason 648 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 11: that individuals memorialize and then keep trophies of their violent 649 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 11: crimes is because they want evidence that it happened, even 650 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:22,720 Speaker 11: though it's counter to their best legal interest. Arguably, psychologically, 651 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 11: this shows someone who is very dangerous and, as you 652 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 11: pointed out, disturbed, but not necessarily mentally ill, especially not 653 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 11: in a mitigating way. So I think in this situation 654 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 11: he wanted to be able to look over his handiwork 655 00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:39,959 Speaker 11: and pat himself on the back. 656 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,120 Speaker 1: What do you make of from Borkart's claim a mental illness? 657 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: I mean he knew enough to outsmart the police for 658 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: over a month. To doctor Sherry Schwartz, that's Borcarts again, 659 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 1: as handsome as he is. What do you make of 660 00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: Boardshart's claims of mental illness? What mental illness? 661 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 11: While he clearly behaved in a way that is not normal, 662 00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 11: right that anybody can see that you don't need a 663 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,479 Speaker 11: degree in psychology. The bottom line here is that this 664 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 11: is not Here's how I'll put it, cognitive distortions fueled 665 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 11: by what appears to be his narcissistic rage are not 666 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 11: the same as psychosis and delusional beliefs based on psychosis. 667 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,440 Speaker 11: This is somebody who was able to plan, carry out attacks, 668 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 11: elude capture by the police, break into her home again, 669 00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 11: and torture and sexually assault her on recording over a 670 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 11: period of seven hours. This is not somebody who is 671 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 11: seriously mentally ill. I think we get that perception because 672 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 11: of the brutality of the behavior and the shocking aspects 673 00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 11: of the behavior. But this is somebody whose mental health 674 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 11: profile is likely to show not very mitigating personality disorders, 675 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 11: including his history of antisocial behavior. 676 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: Jo Scott Morgan, if you would please capsulize what was 677 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: done to this nurse, this mother of a twelve year 678 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: old little boy who lived with her. He was a 679 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: mama's boy. She was already working to save money for 680 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:20,760 Speaker 1: his college. He's twelve years old. Three jobs to Scott, 681 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: three jobs to support that boy. 682 00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 8: I got to tell you, Nancy, one of the things 683 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,839 Speaker 8: that really in going to Doc's comment just a second ago, 684 00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 8: it seems as though that in all cases where we 685 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,360 Speaker 8: have this over the top brutality, doesn't it seem that 686 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 8: the reaction of the courts, and particularly to our colleagues 687 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 8: and friends in the defense community, is that the more 688 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 8: egregious the event is, it equates to some kind of 689 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,759 Speaker 8: excuse for the level of brutality. Right, So the more 690 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 8: brutal you are, that's indicative of the idea that, well, 691 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 8: you've got a album here that is some kind of 692 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 8: psychopathology some people, and Nancy are just absolutely evil. Okay, 693 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 8: there's no other way to explain it. When you think 694 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,240 Speaker 8: about her injuries, and it's not just the injuries themselves, 695 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 8: and I really want to emphasize this, it's about the 696 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 8: period of time that elapsed and the idea, you know, 697 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,920 Speaker 8: this is higher thinking because he's going through this and 698 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 8: all the while, you know, giving her her life and 699 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 8: then taking it back, giving her life and taken back. 700 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 8: I would imagine at some point, Tom, you get to 701 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,920 Speaker 8: the point where you've been brutalized like she was by bludgeoning, 702 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 8: by this asphixial event with the ligature that's wrapped around 703 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,400 Speaker 8: your neck is probably loosened, and then I'm going to 704 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,880 Speaker 8: kill you. I'm going to continue to you know, commit 705 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 8: sexual assault, these sorts of things, and you know the 706 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 8: idea of having her write this note out you just 707 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,640 Speaker 8: think about that and couple that with all of this 708 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,160 Speaker 8: trunt that, by the way, when this goes to court, 709 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,560 Speaker 8: it'll be on display for everybody to see. They'll see 710 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 8: what he did to this beautiful woman. They'll see the 711 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,160 Speaker 8: layers of hemorrhage that she had in her neck, They'll 712 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,720 Speaker 8: see the scott. 713 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: I wish that I could rely on that, but I 714 00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: saw what happened with oj Simpson and that Jerry saw 715 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,720 Speaker 1: all of the beatings and pictures of them that Nicole 716 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:34,000 Speaker 1: Brown suffered. They saw it, and they still let him walk. 717 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:38,360 Speaker 1: Final word to you, Marie Pereira, I'm disgusted as well. 718 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 5: And order of protection is nothing but a piece of paper. 719 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 12: If you give it to someone who doesn't give a 720 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 12: damn about going to prison someone who was committing suicide 721 00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 12: after the act, right, it doesn't mean a thing, just 722 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 12: a piece of paper. Order of protections cannot save lives, 723 00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,799 Speaker 12: Police save lives. Panic buttons save lives because that guy 724 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 12: did can. 725 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 5: Give a damn about his life. And that's nothing wrong 726 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,279 Speaker 5: with him. Mentally, Stop with the oh, he was mentally ill. 727 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,439 Speaker 5: He was jealous, he was a loser, she was leaving him. 728 00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 5: It's that's simple. 729 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 12: So he cut up her face, gout out her eyes 730 00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 12: so that nobody else would get her. And he had 731 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,640 Speaker 12: planned to kill himself anyway, and I'm sorry to say it. 732 00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 12: Sorry it didn't work. 733 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything regarding Kat's 734 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: brutal murder, please call Schomberg PD eight four seven eight 735 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: eight two three five three four. We remember American hero 736 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,320 Speaker 1: Deputy Sheriff Brett Harris, Riverside County Sheriffs, just twenty six, 737 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: killed in the line of duty, leaving behind his young 738 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:50,919 Speaker 1: and beautiful wife, Maria. American hero Sheriff Brett Harris. Thank 739 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,879 Speaker 1: you to our guest, but especially to you Nancy Gray. 740 00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: Signing off for the night, but I'll see tomorrow night, 741 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: and until then, good night,