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Speaker 1: Hey, what welcome in. I'm Doug Gottlieve. This is all

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Speaker 1: ball man. I got a great streak for you. Jacob

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Speaker 1: Jaber is a friend of mine.

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Speaker 2: He's the co founder of Phil's Coffee. No, I did

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Speaker 2: not do this interview, so I get free Phill's Coffee.

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Speaker 2: But Jacob, that would be really cool if that happened. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: We've had a couple of conversations where I'm just kind

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Speaker 2: of blown away by how literally a mom and pop

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Speaker 2: bodega in northern California blew up to be this incredible

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Speaker 2: chain which has kind of a unique, unique part of

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Speaker 2: the business right and they have seen substantial amount of growth.

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Speaker 2: And if you live in Chicago, if you live in DC,

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Speaker 2: if you live in California, you know Phil's Coffee where

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Speaker 2: they make every cup by hand. But it's how they

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Speaker 2: got from, or how Jacob and his dad grew it

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Speaker 2: from just his dad's bodega to this eighty stores.

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Speaker 1: And growing that I found to be fascinating.

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Speaker 2: I think there's parallels for coaching sports life and wanted

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Speaker 2: to share it with you. So we'll take a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a left turn from the hoops for the

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Speaker 2: next two All Balls here's my conversation with Jacob Jaber. Jacob,

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Speaker 2: taking back to the start northern California. You're into high school, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you were a hooper at the time, right.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I grew up under ten years old. I

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Speaker 3: started practicing at like six, very seriously. Actually, So I'm basketball,

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Speaker 3: big passion of mine, big passion of mine. Were you?

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Speaker 4: Like so? So?

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Speaker 1: Were you were on an AU team in high school?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: What was?

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Speaker 4: I know?

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Speaker 1: You scored a long flights in high school.

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Speaker 3: Now, so I in middle school, I started playing on

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Speaker 3: a team and I was actually pretty good, and I

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Speaker 3: was a shooter.

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Speaker 4: I used to make crazy.

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Speaker 3: I was like the Steph Curry you know of middle school,

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Speaker 3: and you know, nowhere near his talent.

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Speaker 4: But I was shooting threes.

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Speaker 3: I was, and they would go in, you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know how they would go in sometimes, but and

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Speaker 3: I would have this shot where I'd shoot from my

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Speaker 3: right and it would be super weird, and initially people

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Speaker 3: are like, oh, that's kind of And I was a

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Speaker 3: little chubby too, so you got this chubby kid shoots

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Speaker 3: kind of weird, but every shot freaking goes.

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Speaker 4: In and it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: So I was, And that's because I practiced like eight

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Speaker 3: hours a day, and I was obsessed in.

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Speaker 1: The driveway, local gym, in your game.

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Speaker 3: In in my backyard, my dad had a hoop for

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Speaker 3: me and I would play there while i'd watch you know,

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Speaker 3: NBA on NBC. I think it was with the you know,

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Speaker 3: the little sad the music, you know, Jordan playing during

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Speaker 3: the commercials. I'd go out and shoot and during halftime,

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Speaker 3: I'd try to emulate what I saw the guys doing.

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Speaker 3: So that was kind of my upbringing. It was all basketball.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So your dad at the time, yeah, what what was

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Speaker 2: the store that he owned?

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Speaker 3: So he moved to the States in the seventies and

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Speaker 3: he opened up a little bodega, a like a you know,

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Speaker 3: two thousand square feet grocery store, and that's what he

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Speaker 3: was doing.

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Speaker 2: Moved in the States from where from Palestine? Okay, so

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Speaker 2: he's in Palestine.

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Speaker 4: Yep. He moves when he was fifteen.

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Speaker 1: He's fifteen, And when did he open up the bodega.

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Speaker 4: In the seventies.

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Speaker 3: I think it was like mid seventies ish, But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean his brother had a bodega in Alameda and

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Speaker 3: he helped him when he was going to school. But

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Speaker 3: my dad didn't like school, saved up enough money and

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Speaker 3: at twenty one years old, so six years after moving

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Speaker 3: to the States, opened up this bodega.

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Speaker 2: What was it called Gateway Liquor Anyway Liquor, So it

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Speaker 2: was a liquor store.

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Speaker 3: It was a liquor store, but it was more than

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Speaker 3: that because there was a lot of families and children

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Speaker 3: and my dad wanted to support the community. So he

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Speaker 3: started carrying diapers and milk and eggs and slowly started

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Speaker 3: incorporating more food and less relying on the cigarettes and

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Speaker 3: the and the beer and more more on the.

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Speaker 4: On the food.

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Speaker 3: So that's kind of how he got But you know what,

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Speaker 3: the one thing is that my dad didn't care about

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Speaker 3: the products he was selling. He loves people, he loves hospitality,

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Speaker 3: he loves community. So he got to know every customer

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Speaker 3: and that's why he was so darn good at making

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Speaker 3: sure his store served the community because he knew what

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Speaker 3: everybody wanted.

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Speaker 1: So did he was it? I mean, was it traditional

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Speaker 1: or did he have one of those like you got

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Speaker 1: running to tali and you know you pay you know,

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Speaker 1: you can pay me at the end of the week

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Speaker 1: thing like so no.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there was a few relationships like that.

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Speaker 3: But no, no, not Maybe there's a few customers like that,

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Speaker 3: but no, not generally speaking.

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Speaker 2: So the the area you grew up in, right, obviously,

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Speaker 2: now northern California is crazy in terms of expensive.

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Speaker 4: What was it?

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Speaker 1: What was it like paint?

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Speaker 2: So this house that you have when you're shooting hoops

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Speaker 2: in the backyard, where was it located.

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Speaker 3: It was in the suburb like fifteen twenty minutes outside

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Speaker 3: of San Francisco called South San Francisco.

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Speaker 4: It was a pretty good neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: Nothing fancy, nothing special, but good neighborhood, good community, you know,

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Speaker 3: modest house. You know, we didn't have a lot growing

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Speaker 3: up because my dad would have to work all the

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Speaker 3: time and.

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Speaker 4: He supported us the best he could.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, it was my mom would stay at home

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Speaker 3: at two sisters, two older sisters. They did great in school.

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Speaker 3: I never did good in school. As a matter of fact,

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Speaker 3: I'd love to call in sick so I can play

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Speaker 3: video games and play basketball. So I was not not

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Speaker 3: into school. And then I would help my dad. When

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Speaker 3: I was nine years old, I started helping him at

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Speaker 3: the business. I stood on top of two milk rates

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Speaker 3: to bring people up at the register because I couldn't

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Speaker 3: reach it.

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Speaker 2: You're younger than me. So what video games when you'd

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Speaker 2: caught when you'd be sick? Yeacause I'm in the I'm

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Speaker 2: in the I remember. I was like, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: say eleven or twelve, and we we had Atari and

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Speaker 2: then when supern when Nintendo came out, it was on

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Speaker 2: like the rest of the world disappeared.

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Speaker 1: What was your gaming system when you were a kid.

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Speaker 3: So I had some of that, like the Mario Kart, Nintendo.

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Speaker 3: I was into that, But then I got into the

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Speaker 3: computer games.

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Speaker 4: Like on the PC.

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Speaker 3: So I would play Diablo and StarCraft and these games

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Speaker 3: just like take your life away because you you build

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Speaker 3: these characters. You have to build stuff. It's strategy, it's

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Speaker 3: long term thinking.

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Speaker 4: It's like it.

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Speaker 3: Takes a lot for you to get good at it.

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Speaker 3: So I would be playing these games all the time.

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Speaker 1: What was your go to snack from the bodega? Right?

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Speaker 2: Like I I used to love funimes, but my parents

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Speaker 2: should never My parents said we did, you know, like

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Speaker 2: we didn't have much. So like our kids have so

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Speaker 2: many more snacks around the house than we had, Like you,

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Speaker 2: I don't know snacks really, And.

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Speaker 1: I remember like Funion's Cool original doritos.

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Speaker 2: The originally I had Nacho flavor, and then the Cool

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Speaker 2: Ranch Gurritos when Cool Ranch came out were big time.

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Speaker 1: What was your kind of And then we were a

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Speaker 1: coke family.

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Speaker 2: Like my dad used to He used to play racquetball

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Speaker 2: and he would in between racketball games to get like

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Speaker 2: fries and a coke with lemon in it. And somehow

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Speaker 2: he thought like that was good nutrition. Obviously he became

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Speaker 2: a type two diabetic. Ironically, Now, what what was your

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Speaker 2: go to snack?

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Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah, my dad's a diabetic as well, so we

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Speaker 3: can relate to that. But uh, you know, actually, so

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Speaker 3: my dad used to carry something called Bud's ice Cream

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Speaker 3: out of San Francisco, and he used to have this

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Speaker 3: flavor called ConA Coffee Chip and it's the best damn

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Speaker 3: ice cream. And I remember it till to this day.

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Speaker 3: And I would always just once in a while go

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Speaker 3: grab a scoop, you know, before you know it, by

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, I'm like six scoops.

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Speaker 4: In And that was that was my thing.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 4: It was Kona Chip coffee flavor.

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Speaker 3: Buds ice cream perhaps the best of its kind.

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Speaker 1: Do they still make the Buds ice cream.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think they do, but I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: it's a good question.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I just I think I'm sensing partnership with Phils.

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Speaker 2: I mean like, I'm just We're just we're just spitballing here, right,

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Speaker 2: all right, maybe maybe an acquisition, You're like, I always

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Speaker 2: liked it that ConA chip.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could do a think about this, Okay.

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Speaker 2: Think about if you had you remember like group beer

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Speaker 2: floats when I was in Oh yeah, this is when

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Speaker 2: I was in fifth grade. I went to LaVita Elementary

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Speaker 2: and I'm going a humble brag here.

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Speaker 1: I was in the Gate program, right.

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Speaker 2: We had the Gate kids and the Reggae kids, right,

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Speaker 2: and it was like different wings of the school. And

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Speaker 2: we had something called Viking Bucks because they were Levita Vikings.

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Speaker 2: And so for our fifth grade class we had to

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Speaker 2: like come up with a business. And our business was

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Speaker 2: we sold Rootier floats at lunch, and I mean we

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Speaker 2: killed them.

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Speaker 1: You want to talk about.

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Speaker 2: About having the ability to make a bunch of money,

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Speaker 2: All it takes was two liter bottles of Routier and

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Speaker 2: one scoop ice stream. I mean the margins were unbelievable, right,

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Speaker 2: What about stick with me here for a second coffee float.

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Speaker 4: I like it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, so there's something called the apigato, which kind

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Speaker 3: of has espresso and then.

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Speaker 4: A cream or ice cream.

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Speaker 3: I'm not even exactly sure because I've seen actually different

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Speaker 3: versions of it, the traditional one. I'm not one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent certain, but that would be damn good, especially with

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Speaker 3: a little bit of you know, maybe whiskey or bourbon,

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Speaker 3: and you just.

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Speaker 4: Like make a you know, an evening coffee.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's the espresso martini, but what's the root

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Speaker 3: beer float coffee version of that?

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Speaker 4: That can be interesting, that can be cool. Maybe not

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Speaker 4: in the morning. Can't take it in the morning though,

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Speaker 4: unless you're on.

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Speaker 2: Vacation, vacation, vacation, vacation, or if you want to pretend

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Speaker 2: like you want to pretend like you're on vacation exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: So so when you're when you're in uh, middle school

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Speaker 2: into high school, was it still the bodega or did

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Speaker 2: it ad it transformed into a coffee.

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Speaker 3: Shop, still the bodega all the way through the end

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Speaker 3: of high school. And so I would help my dad

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Speaker 3: when it was a bodega, we had, you know, and

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Speaker 3: my dad's old school, right so he only wanted his

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Speaker 3: family behind the cash register, so he would take a

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Speaker 3: nap on the couch. I would ring people up on

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Speaker 3: the register, you know, nine, ten, eleven years old, and

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Speaker 3: then he'd have a customer who he made a friend with,

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Speaker 3: this wonderful guy we called Uncle Dave. Uncle Dave used

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Speaker 3: to sit right next to me, light up a cigarette

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Speaker 3: and give me drop wisdom, tell me about the war,

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Speaker 3: tell me about his upbringing. He's Mexican American, and he

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Speaker 3: just taught me so much. And he would watch me

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Speaker 3: while he's smoking a cigarette, and I'd bring up people

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Speaker 3: at the register. And the only reason he was there

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Speaker 3: is to watch me, but to also you know, you

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Speaker 3: can't sell at that age, you can't sell cigarettes and

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Speaker 3: all that stuff to people. So he was there to

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Speaker 3: kind of just you know, support me.

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Speaker 4: That my dad would.

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Speaker 3: Sleep on a couch and take a nap because he'd

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Speaker 3: leave the house at six am and come back like

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Speaker 3: at ten to eleven sometimes.

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Speaker 4: So he took a.

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Speaker 3: Little nap and then I was done, and then you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes I'll take the bart back to South San Francisco

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Speaker 3: like thirty minutes and yeah, that's yeah. So to answer

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Speaker 3: your question, like at the end of high school is

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Speaker 3: when it's started converting. But it wasn't like closed bodega,

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Speaker 3: open coffee shop. It was add some coffee in the

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Speaker 3: bodega and then organically grow from there because we couldn't

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Speaker 3: afford to take that risk.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so but you are a really talented high school

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Speaker 2: BASKETBA play like we scored a lot of PLoP plug

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Speaker 2: high school.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I went to South City South City High School.

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Speaker 3: I will say though towards like the middle of it,

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Speaker 3: I stopped playing as much because I got into gaming.

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Speaker 3: So I was playing basketball NonStop from elementary middle school

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Speaker 3: all the way to like mid high school, and.

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Speaker 4: I did really well.

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Speaker 3: But then I got addicted to the gaming, so I

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Speaker 3: stopped playing on the team as much. I still played

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Speaker 3: for fun and obviously watched all the games, especially when

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Speaker 3: the Bulls were playing, and then I'd go and play

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Speaker 3: video That's when I started getting into the video game.

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Speaker 3: So I shifted from an obsession to basketball, still obsession,

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Speaker 3: but obsession at basketball to obsession with gaming.

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Speaker 1: And that was that start.

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Speaker 3: Was that StarCraft or was the different game at that time,

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Speaker 3: Diablo and StarCraft. I kind of played both interchangeably, but

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Speaker 3: I mostly played Diablo.

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Speaker 1: Now, did you ever think about becoming a game developer?

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Speaker 3: You know, I was less into the engineering of it

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Speaker 3: and more into the.

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Speaker 4: Building the playing.

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Speaker 3: So in Diablo, you actually start with a character at

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Speaker 3: level one or zero, and you get to grow your character,

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Speaker 3: and it takes a long time to ninety nine. Ninety

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Speaker 3: nine was the highest level. And along the journey of

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Speaker 3: growing the character to ninety nine, you get to build

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Speaker 3: your character. You allocate energy, you allocate strength, you allocate vitality,

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Speaker 3: you allocate all these different things. So, as I thought

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Speaker 3: back to it, one of the best teachers besides working

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Speaker 3: with my dad is playing this game because it taught

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Speaker 3: you a lot of strategy. It talks to you long

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Speaker 3: term thinking. It taught you quality, and that's why, you know,

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Speaker 3: for school, I didn't really take anything away from school,

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Speaker 3: and actually I thought it was a complete waste of time.

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Speaker 4: And I love learning, but not in that format.

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Speaker 3: So I got so much out of helping my dad

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Speaker 3: at the store for a few hours a day and

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Speaker 3: then playing this video game for ten hours a day.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy.

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Speaker 2: And then it's interesting because you talk about how video

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Speaker 2: games taught you so much in life. I've told this

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Speaker 2: my son loves Survivor. You mean, remember this, it's basically

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Speaker 2: the first reality show. And I told him and I've

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Speaker 2: told everybody, like, the truth is, there's more real life

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Speaker 2: business stuff in Survivor than there is in school in

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Speaker 2: many ways, because so much of who you are is

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Speaker 2: who you surround yourself with. You know, what you know

300
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Speaker 2: is important, but also who you know is important and

301
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Speaker 2: who you just who you align yourself with, and understanding

302
00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,960
Speaker 2: that while you may think you're aligned with people, the

303
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,400
Speaker 2: truth is a lot of people are there. Everybody's looking

304
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Speaker 2: out for themselves on some level, and you got to

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Speaker 2: kind of you weary you and be alerted to not

306
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Speaker 2: everybody is in things for the same reasons that you're

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Speaker 2: in for.

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Speaker 1: So I totally get that you can take things from.

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Speaker 2: Games and reality shows and take them into real life.

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Speaker 4: So I agree completely.

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Speaker 3: The only thing to add to that is when you're

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Speaker 3: in high school, you do a lot of dumb shit

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Speaker 3: because you're at You're around the same kids, right you're

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Speaker 3: trying stuff, you're experience.

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Speaker 4: I didn't get that I was hanging.

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Speaker 3: Around with old guys at the store and then on

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Speaker 3: my own online, so I actually have a little bit

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Speaker 3: of an old soul, and I developed that, I think

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Speaker 3: because of hanging around the old guys. So there's a

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Speaker 3: lot of benefit to dodging aspects of high school and

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Speaker 3: finding other real life.

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Speaker 4: Ways to learn. So I agree completely.

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Speaker 1: How about this one.

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Speaker 2: So this is where kind of you and I connect

325
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Speaker 2: on that level is my dad was My dad was

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Speaker 2: a little older, right, So he was nineteen forty, so

327
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Speaker 2: he's thirty six when he had me, which is again

328
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Speaker 2: at the time a little bit older. But he was

329
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Speaker 2: kind of an old soul because he didn't listen even

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Speaker 2: though he grew up in you know, he was in

331
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Speaker 2: his twenties in the sixties and thirties in the seventies.

332
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Speaker 2: He liked soul music, right, he really liked I mean

333
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 2: all different kinds of stole and some jazz, but he

334
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Speaker 2: also he liked big band music. And then we had

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Speaker 2: when he coached me in basketball, you couldn't compete at

336
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Speaker 2: the highest level with just kids from Orange County. He's

337
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,360
Speaker 2: not enough good players. So we had JR. Henderson who

338
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 2: played at UCLA and played in Japan forever and played

339
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Speaker 2: in the NBA. He was from Bakersfield. And we had

340
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,920
Speaker 2: Adam Walton. That's Bill's oldest son. He was from San Diego,

341
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Speaker 2: and we had like from all over, and so we'd

342
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Speaker 2: get in the car, pick me up after school, get

343
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Speaker 2: in the car and drive and pick up these kids

344
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Speaker 2: taking the practice and then we'd drop them off and

345
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Speaker 2: I do my homework in the.

346
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Speaker 1: Car and he would put in old time radio.

347
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Speaker 2: He had a series of old time radio cassettes, The

348
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,680
Speaker 2: Jack Benny Show, it was his favorite, The Bickersons, Burns

349
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 2: and Allen like Again and a.

350
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Speaker 1: Yet you have to know old time. But the point

351
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Speaker 1: is it wasn't not necessarily normal to me, but I

352
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Speaker 1: have I have this. You know.

353
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 2: I listened to k Earth one oh one or sports

354
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Speaker 2: radio or old time radio for afternoons on end, and

355
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Speaker 2: I can quote them chapter and verse as opposed to

356
00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 2: I didn't listen to Kiss FM with him like it

357
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:28,480
Speaker 2: was his radio.

358
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Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't get a chance to do that.

359
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 2: And so the only references I had were like, okay,

360
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,800
Speaker 2: basketball players would listen to rap and then you know,

361
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 2: I didn't it.

362
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: I actually told this.

363
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 4: I was.

364
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:43,440
Speaker 2: It wasn't until late in high school and I had

365
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,640
Speaker 2: friends at like Cream's Clear out of Revival, and so

366
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 2: I was telling my kids the other day, I took

367
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,280
Speaker 2: him to dinner and Creten's was playing and they're like,

368
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 2: how do you know this? This is a little bit

369
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 2: older than you and the guy's next to us, and

370
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 2: I was like, honestly, my dad didn't teach me anything

371
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,880
Speaker 2: about seventies, sixties, seventies.

372
00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: I know anything about Pink Floyd.

373
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,199
Speaker 2: All that stuff came once I got to college, and

374
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,600
Speaker 2: then a little bit outter, but mostly college like weight

375
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 2: room music, whatever. But it's because I grew up as

376
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 2: that same old soul, always hanging out with a guy

377
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,119
Speaker 2: who's thirty six years older than me, and he was

378
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,440
Speaker 2: an old soul himself, so I agree. I remember my

379
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 2: one of my close friends in high school was a

380
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,320
Speaker 2: guy named Ryan, and he had a jeep wagon ear,

381
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 2: which I thought was like the coolest, and he always

382
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,840
Speaker 2: had a little bit of money in his pocket. And

383
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,000
Speaker 2: we didn't like Tustin's not a super affluent area. What

384
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,360
Speaker 2: Hill the other high school was, And I always wondered,

385
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 2: like maybe I didn't wonder. I just thought it was

386
00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,199
Speaker 2: normally he always had a little bit of money, and

387
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,440
Speaker 2: it wasn't until senior ditch day when he ordered pizzas

388
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:51,639
Speaker 2: and we had like a ton of people at his

389
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 2: house and he's like, hey, go to my can you

390
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,040
Speaker 2: go to my closet.

391
00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,639
Speaker 1: There's a safe in there and it's open. Just grab

392
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: the cash for me and we'll pay the pizzas with it.

393
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 2: And so I go and I grab it and like

394
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:06,040
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of weed and drugs and hels in there.

395
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,240
Speaker 2: I had no idea, I like to me, I had no.

396
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,879
Speaker 2: I didn't know even I had.

397
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,119
Speaker 1: I had coffee with.

398
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 2: A high school friend of mine and she was like, yeah,

399
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 2: we did drugs in high school.

400
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: I was like, what are you talking about?

401
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 2: Like I didn't even know any of this existed, because

402
00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 2: my existence was, you know, in the gym or driving

403
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,160
Speaker 2: in a car with my dad to another gym.

404
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 1: And so I had no I had no understanding of

405
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,159
Speaker 1: all that stuff that was going on while I was

406
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:37,760
Speaker 1: in high school.

407
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 3: Similar to you, would you have had it any other way?

408
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 3: If you can go back?

409
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 1: No?

410
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 4: No, yeah, me neither, no one bit.

411
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 1: Okay.

412
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 2: So, so whose idea was it to incorporate coffee?

413
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:54,880
Speaker 4: It was my dad's idea. So the business was slowing.

414
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,280
Speaker 3: He always wanted to do something a little different because

415
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 3: at the bodega, people would buy something and they'd leave,

416
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 3: but he'd love talking and connecting with people.

417
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 4: So he decided, like, I need to.

418
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 3: Come up with a product that I love, that I'm

419
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 3: passionate about, that is different, that's better, but that also

420
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 3: brings people together and gives me the chance to connect

421
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 3: with the community, a community at a deeper level, but

422
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 3: also gives people a space to hang out. So that's

423
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 3: how he started. But he actually took time to visit

424
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,840
Speaker 3: over eleven hundred coffee shops over the span of many

425
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,919
Speaker 3: years to learn not to go and copy, but to

426
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,240
Speaker 3: learn what did the customer want, what did the employee want?

427
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 3: How do you make something different, how do you make

428
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,400
Speaker 3: something a better, how do you make it authentic? How

429
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 3: do you make it an expression of who you are?

430
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 3: So that's how he came up with this one cup

431
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,720
Speaker 3: at a time concept, which allowed you to personally connect

432
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 3: with every customer, make them something in front of him,

433
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,160
Speaker 3: kind of like in a bar format. So Phil's it's

434
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,160
Speaker 3: kind of like a bar where the barista is handing

435
00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 3: you the drink and you know, you get to have

436
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: the coffee, you have the moment, and then you can

437
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 3: go sit down and hang out. So he decided to

438
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,240
Speaker 3: incorporate a small coffee station, one cup at a time

439
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 3: station in the bodega and got people to try it.

440
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: And then he started working on different blends and trying

441
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:20,159
Speaker 3: to create different flavors that were unique and special that

442
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,320
Speaker 3: he loved, and slowly it started catching on. And I've

443
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,640
Speaker 3: been in the business, like I said, from the beginning,

444
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 3: so you know, I was helping him with that.

445
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 4: But he came up with the concept.

446
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 5: Fox Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in

447
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,680
Speaker 5: the nation. Catch all of our shows at Foxsports Radio

448
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 5: dot com and within the iHeartRadio app search FSR to

449
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 5: listen live.

450
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: So you added what element to it?

451
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: So my dad created the concept and I was just

452
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,040
Speaker 3: there helping him from the beginning, right, So we were

453
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 3: not busy in the beginning. It took many, many years

454
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 3: for us to start, you know, getting more customers to

455
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,480
Speaker 3: become aware. But when they tried it, they're like, this

456
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 3: shit tastes so good, you know, and they loved it.

457
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 3: So that gave us confidence and then we started putting.

458
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 3: We took furniture from our house because you know, you

459
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,640
Speaker 3: wanted to make a cafe setting where people could hang out.

460
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 4: We took furniture from our house because we.

461
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,400
Speaker 3: Didn't have a lot of money, and like we took

462
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 3: our dinner table chairs couches in the dining room and

463
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,359
Speaker 3: put it in the coffee shop.

464
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 4: And that's literally how it kind of started.

465
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: Kind of the eclectic setup in some of the especially

466
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 2: i've been into some of the San Francisco stores, I've

467
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 2: always I've always kind of wondered about that one.

468
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 3: Hundred Well, it's about working when when you don't have something,

469
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: you're forced to be creative. When you have something, it's

470
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: easier to be stupid. So there's something really special about

471
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 3: living in scarcity, you know, and.

472
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: You know, like it's the old, it's the old. Uh,

473
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 1: what is it? Necessity is the mother of ball invention.

474
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,400
Speaker 4: Right, one hundred percent, And it's so true.

475
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 3: And.

476
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 4: That that was.

477
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,440
Speaker 3: A that was a core ingredient in how we operated,

478
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 3: which because for us we did all the work. We

479
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 3: were baristas. We didn't go hire employees and sit at home.

480
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,400
Speaker 3: We were baristas.

481
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 4: Every night.

482
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 3: Our hands were filled with coffee stains, our fingertips were

483
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 3: filled with coffee stains, and we'd smell like coffee.

484
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 4: And my dad and I were.

485
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: Baristas twelve hours a day, seven days a week, and

486
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 3: then I dropped out of school and then helped it.

487
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 4: You know, that was it.

488
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 3: And then it was like seventy percent bodega, No, I'm sorry,

489
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 3: seven percent coffee shop, thirty percent bodega. And then he

490
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: finally sold his liquor license tobacco license, and then it

491
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 3: became eighty percent coffee shop, twenty percent bodega, then ninety percent,

492
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 3: then ten percent. It was a slow process because it

493
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 3: just made sense at the time, and that's how that's

494
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 3: how it went.

495
00:23:58,280 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 4: It was very it.

496
00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 3: We didn't even open our second store until like six

497
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 3: years later.

498
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, wait, so before we get to the second store.

499
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so about what year is this when it's becoming

500
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: eighty percent coffee probably three two.

501
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 4: Three, something like that, and at that time had start.

502
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: What did Starbucks first hit?

503
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,679
Speaker 4: Well, Starbucks, I think really in the two thousands.

504
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 3: Nineties, you know, eighties, nineties, two thousands, it's kind of

505
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 3: started taking off for sure and becoming popular.

506
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 4: It was popular at the time, for sure, but there wasn't.

507
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: My dad always thought about it as like transaction and experience.

508
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 3: Right when he visited Starbucks, it was transaction. Here's here's

509
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 3: what's your name, here's the cup, have a good day.

510
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: He wanted to create an experience around coffee, and I

511
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 3: think people appreciated that because you take time to make

512
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 3: something for someone and in the process hospitality you get

513
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 3: to Like when a customer came up, I.

514
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 4: Was like, Hey, is it your first time? I haven't

515
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 4: seen you around here? Oh, hey, I'm what's your name? Oh? Awesome? Great?

516
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 4: What do you normally love to drink? Oh?

517
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 3: You know what, I have something amazing I want to

518
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 3: I want to share with you. And that that's different.

519
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: That's different, and that's really hard to scale. But that's different.

520
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: No, that's where the that's where it's that's where you're

521
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 2: like a bartender, right, bartender's like, you know, fix me

522
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: up something.

523
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: What kind of liquor do you like? I got it?

524
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: You know that that's a similarity.

525
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 3: It's a good feeling. People like to be told what

526
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 3: they're going to get.

527
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's it's a it's a good feeling, but it's

528
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: also it does play into kind of the twentieth first

529
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 2: century mentality right iPhone, right YouTube. It's very individual I

530
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: look very individually focused, and it gives us that kind

531
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: of sense of self, Hey, this is my drink.

532
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,520
Speaker 1: This is my thing.

533
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 4: Yep, you know this is.

534
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: I like it. Somebody and somebody care enough to make

535
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 2: it the way I like it. Well, you know, just

536
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 2: a random question. When you're working slinging coffee twelve hours

537
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 2: a day, do you drink coffee yourself?

538
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: More and more as I got older, so I would

539
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 3: have a cup or two. Now I'm like four or

540
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 3: five cups a day, but i'd have a cup or

541
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 3: two and I would have a lot of sugar in

542
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 3: it and cream in it, you know, because that's how

543
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 3: you start for many people. And yeah, but no, I

544
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: was not like, you know, shooting down cups every hour.

545
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 2: But definitely, I mean, just like I just it's like

546
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 2: the old busman's holiday, Like you're at home, you go

547
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 2: and have coffee, like oh, if I even smell coffee

548
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 2: one more time?

549
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 4: No? Never, No, not like that, not you know, yeah,

550
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 4: I mean my clothes would No.

551
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 3: I never got tired of it because I loved it.

552
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: I got so much energy from serving. Being a barista

553
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: is fricking fun. This is so it's so fun because

554
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 3: it's like you see a lot of the same people

555
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: you you know, in community is very healthy, right, Like

556
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 3: having community is very creating a bit an environment where

557
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 3: there's habits to connect with people is very very healthy

558
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 3: for you. And that's what being a barista is all about,

559
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 3: is you just get your working hard, but you're and

560
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 3: it's also when it's yours, it makes a difference, right

561
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 3: because when you're the owner, you care for it. Like

562
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 3: when a ten cent cup fell on the floor, we

563
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 3: get pissed.

564
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 5: You know.

565
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 4: It's like if an employee.

566
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 3: Drops a ten cent cup, they're not going to feel

567
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 3: like that. So the magic is in figuring out how

568
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 3: to hire and create an environment where employees feel like that.

569
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 4: And that was always the focus for us as we grew.

570
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: Now, what was it known by?

571
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 3: Was it?

572
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: Did it still have the same name or when did

573
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: you change it to film?

574
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: I think early two thousand's two one O two three,

575
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: But no, we changed it to Phil's with an S Coffee,

576
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 3: and then my sister gave my dad the idea to

577
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 3: make it a Z because it's different and it's individual,

578
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: it's special, it's you know, So then he changed it

579
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: to a Z. So then I think at that time

580
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 3: it was Phil's Coffee P H I L Z. And

581
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 3: we got voted best coffee by San Francisco Weekly News,

582
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,720
Speaker 3: and we put a big banner right at the top

583
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 3: of the entrance that said voted best handmade coffee.

584
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 4: And we were proud of it.

585
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 3: And like whenever somebody would come in, we we we

586
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: want to exceed that and just make that you know,

587
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 3: whenever there was a first time or that came in,

588
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 3: we always left them with a treat, a surprise treat,

589
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,959
Speaker 3: you know, because we really appreciate them coming by. And

590
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 3: they come back and then they tell their friend and

591
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: you know, we knew their birthdays, we knew their kids' names.

592
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: It was really like a you know, have you ever

593
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: been to like an old school Italian restaurant where the

594
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 3: niney year old eighty year old owner is still there

595
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 3: and he's coming by and grating cheese over your dish.

596
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: And like, so my last year playing professional basketball, I

597
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: played in Russia. My first year, I played in Israel

598
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 2: my second year, and then I got a chance to

599
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 2: start calling ESPN games and I worked local radio in

600
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 2: Oklahoma City, and so at the end of the I

601
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: would never forget I was driving on the turnpike. The

602
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: turnpike is Interstate forty four. It runs between Tulson Openma City.

603
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: We bought a house in Oklahoma City, and my last

604
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: game that year was the Whack Championship game and I

605
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: think Nevada beat Tulsa and I was driving home in

606
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 2: my basketball agent called me. I named Michael Siegel, still

607
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 2: doing it, and Michael said, hey, if you can leave tonight,

608
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: I got a gig for you in Portugal. It was like,

609
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: I said, Mike, I've been doing radio for this guy

610
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,479
Speaker 2: for a year, and I think he knows I'm not

611
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 2: done playing, but I can't. I literally showed tomorrow or

612
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: in two days, like I can't leave tonight. All right, Well,

613
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 2: if you can leave by the end of the week,

614
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: then France, there's team come on from south central France.

615
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, I needed a couple of

616
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: weeks ramp up to get in shape. Like the whole

617
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: thing pent my time. You know it was going to

618
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: be like six weeks, but you got two months of

619
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: pay and if you advanced that.

620
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: Their thing was they were second place in pro B.

621
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 2: They were trying to get to pro A, so they're

622
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: willing to pay like low low end pro A money anyway,

623
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: but the setup was no car, but they you lived

624
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 2: in this I had like a flat, studio flat, and

625
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: when I oh, you know, like it was a small

626
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: street and right across the street from my flat was

627
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: a pastry shop with coffee, and then you know down

628
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: the street and to the right to be the gym there,

629
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 2: and then you'd go kind of to the left and

630
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: you go through the town square and then there was

631
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: like this cool restaurant and so lunch and dinner, I

632
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 2: ate at the restaurant and there was no menu. There

633
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: was you come in and they had the special and

634
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: the chef would make it for you. And then he'd

635
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: come and say, you know, well do you think you know?

636
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: And I would It was amazing. And then after a

637
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: couple of weeks, you know, he would he would ask

638
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 2: me like what do you want tomorrow? Like and it

639
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 2: was incredible, Like it was literally the most incredible experience.

640
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 2: Like if I could go back, I played a higher

641
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 2: level basketball I had, you know, played in pooler stuff whatever.

642
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: But the relationship aspect with the chef I completely understand.

643
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 2: Like it's a different, unique thing. And you know, I

644
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 2: was the American. I didn't speak French, and they knew

645
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 2: when I would come on, they would put on Eurosport

646
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: because the NCAA term was on, and then we watched

647
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: like some eurlyue basketball or whatever, and they kind of

648
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 2: left me alone. They knew I got like ice in

649
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: my drink. Nobody else did. It was so cool, you know,

650
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 2: it's rare. Yeah, I totally get it. I completely okay.

651
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 2: So what was the decision like to open a second store? Who,

652
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: like your dad, were you involved in that that decision

653
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:28,880
Speaker 2: going about?

654
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, we both were.

655
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: And the second store was not too far from the

656
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 3: first store, a couple of miles, and basically we were

657
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 3: doing pretty good at the time. Customers were asking us

658
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 3: to open a second store, and we just opened it up.

659
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 3: And then we split. So I ran the second store,

660
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: my dad ran the first store. We're still working together,

661
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 3: of course, and we're just doing the.

662
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 4: Same thing we've been doing.

663
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 3: And then over time the second store got busy and

664
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 3: we're like, damn, this is working. Hired some people to

665
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: help us at the store, and then we opened up

666
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 3: third store.

667
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 2: How what is that like to hire somebody family business?

668
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know, didn't trust anybody.

669
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: What what was that? What's that? One?

670
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 4: More family involved?

671
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: My dad and I were enough, we'd argue we'd have

672
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 3: wonderful arguments behind the counter in front of customers, because

673
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: family business. It's like it's real, right, and there's.

674
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: No plus he's Middle Eastern too.

675
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 4: He's Middle Eastern.

676
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. One time I showed up late and he

677
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 3: was like get the f out of here, you know,

678
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 3: like you know, in front of customer and then tell

679
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: me to come back two seconds later because it was busy.

680
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 3: So that was what, you know, So no more family.

681
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 3: We were like, shit, no more family. We're just going

682
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: to hire. We're going to hire some you know, employees.

683
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 3: And I think it was very much about our customers, right,

684
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 3: like our customers. We knew so many customers. One of

685
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: them was willing to help us. One of them knew

686
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 3: somebody that wanted to work. So that's how it started.

687
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: We hire a few referred by our customers. We met

688
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 3: them and you know, we were like, okay, seems good.

689
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 3: You know, watch how I do it. I'm going to

690
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 3: watch how you do it. We're going to do it

691
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 3: together and then we're going to go. And that's how

692
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 3: we did it, and it worked really well.

693
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 1: Oait.

694
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: So look, you you grew up where you're normal. Was

695
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 2: your dad leaving at six am and coming back at

696
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 2: ten to night, and so when that's your normal when

697
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 2: you were working, you didn't know any better, right, this

698
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 2: just this is what we do.

699
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 4: Yep.

700
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 2: What's it like to hire people that don't understand maybe

701
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: appreciate the grind that it took to be there and

702
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 2: the amount of sweat equity you have. It's not just

703
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 2: your family business, it's you've literally toured years of your

704
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 2: life into this thing. What is that like to kind

705
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 2: of hand off some of that control two people haven't

706
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 2: grown up.

707
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 3: I think it's a blessing because standards were so high

708
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 3: and you have to be really good. And we never

709
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: expected people to be like us, not because we're better,

710
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 3: but because we're the owners and this is what we've

711
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 3: been doing. But we expected a lot. So actually, what

712
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 3: I decided to do because we made so many mistakes

713
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: in hiring over the time, and you learned, Okay, this

714
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: is not good, this doesn't work, is I focused a

715
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 3: lot on what's the type of person.

716
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 4: That's going to work well here?

717
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: So I then started taking a lot of time trying

718
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: to find people that I think have a natural ability

719
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 3: to be really good at the job and be passionate

720
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 3: about it.

721
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 4: And then if I can.

722
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 3: Find those people, I could treat them well, I can

723
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: treat them with respect, I could inspire them, I can

724
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: you know, coach them, and we can work together. Well,

725
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 3: they're going to be really good. So I decided to

726
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 3: focus on the people playbook, you know, because I knew

727
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: that we just didn't need one person we're going to

728
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 3: keep hiring. So I thought to myself, this is not

729
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 3: going to work because you know, we have really high

730
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 3: standards and people need to do this right, because so

731
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: much about it is with the people. Right, you're making

732
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 3: the coffee. There's so much room for air, there's so

733
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 3: much emphasis on hospitality. So I decided to put a

734
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 3: lot of energy into the people playbook, finding how do

735
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: you hire right?

736
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 4: How do you fire? How do you coach? How do

737
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 4: you train?

738
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: And that really helped a lot, But I tell you

739
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 3: it's still very, very hard, because you know, they're never

740
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 3: you know, when I walk around a store and I

741
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 3: see a rapper on the floor, a small little gum wrapper,

742
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: maybe not everybody sees it, but I'm to pick that

743
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 3: ship up.

744
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 4: I'm gonna throw it away.

745
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 3: That's an owner's mindset, an employee's mindset. As I clock

746
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 3: out maybe I see the rapper, but I'm still headed

747
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:13,919
Speaker 3: out the door.

748
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 4: So that stuff bothered me and my dad a lot.

749
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 3: But you also have to respect the system. But that's

750
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: why we just focus so much on the people playbook

751
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 3: because we knew it's going to be impossible to replicate

752
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 3: us are our mindset, but let's try the best we can.

753
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 3: So I tell you, focusing on who to hire and

754
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 3: training them right and having the right leader in the

755
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 3: store were the three most important dimensions?

756
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,080
Speaker 1: Is interesting? Okay, So let me give you the basketball there.

757
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: Okay, So you're familiar with Villanova and their their success

758
00:37:58,520 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 2: under j.

759
00:37:58,960 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: Wright.

760
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 2: So after their first Final four, I think it was

761
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, they had the number one and that recruiting

762
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 2: class gave them their three or four worst seasons under

763
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: J Wright one year, I think they were thirteen and nineteen.

764
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 2: And what Jay tells people all the time is, you

765
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 2: know what happens is when you get to a final four,

766
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 2: and this is like you know when you expand to

767
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: a second story. Now you can hire, you can you

768
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: can get players you could never get previously.

769
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 1: You need any but you need to.

770
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 2: Find what they call okg's are kind of guys right.

771
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 2: They might not work anywhere, but they work at Villanova,

772
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 2: which is what you're looking for. Just because somebody is

773
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,920
Speaker 2: a dillegit worker or whatever. If they if they're not

774
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,439
Speaker 2: your type of person, they don't relate. If they don't

775
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:57,919
Speaker 2: have the same pride and the things that you take

776
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 2: pride in, you just missalign. That's not going to work.

777
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,919
Speaker 2: And so that's where I think the parallel it. It's

778
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 2: like it's the same thing with marriage. And everybody you know,

779
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 2: you ever once doesn't want to marry a nine or ten,

780
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 2: like yeah, but man, some of those not some of

781
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 2: those eightes think they're elevens, and that's a hard one.

782
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 2: You got to marry somebody who fits your mindset, your

783
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 2: kind of person. It's the same thing in the job, right,

784
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 2: you take a job simply based upon the bottom line,

785
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 2: and that does it fit me my lifestyle? And you

786
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 2: know where I want to spend the greatest amount of

787
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: time away because that's what you do with your job.

788
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: You spend more time await there than you do usually

789
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 1: at home. And you don't.

790
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 2: It doesn't work. So I absolutely think that's brilliant advice.

791
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 2: I think it's really hard to execute. So what were

792
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: the like, what's the sign? How do you know if

793
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:51,720
Speaker 2: somebody is going to fit your culture?

794
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's something called an interview process that everybody does,

795
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: but unfortunately it's not the best. It's not the best

796
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 3: way to assess someone. But when you've done a lot

797
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: of interviews and you see how they perform, after you

798
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,439
Speaker 3: develop pattern recognition, so then you begin to get pretty good.

799
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 3: You still use the interview process, but you get really good.

800
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what was awesome.

801
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 3: My dad and I back in the days used to say, oh,

802
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 3: you're interested in working, jump behind the counter right.

803
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:27,360
Speaker 4: Now, work with us. Let's see how it goes for

804
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 4: the next thirty minutes.

805
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 3: That was good and it gives you a yeah, sink

806
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 3: or swim and see how it goes.

807
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 4: You know, let's see how you do.

808
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 3: And we didn't care if we didn't expect them to

809
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 3: know everything. But can you listen, you could still you

810
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 3: don't need training to give good customer service. It's common sense.

811
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 3: You look at someone in the eye, you treat them

812
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 3: with respect, you give them attention, and that's it. And

813
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 3: if you see somebody, you should be able to give

814
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 3: great customer service with that any training, and if you

815
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: can't do that, How the hell are we going to.

816
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 4: Make you better?

817
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: So when I was in college, I worked as a bartender,

818
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: no training, but it was great. I mean, obviously I

819
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 2: had a name and personality, but you know, just understanding

820
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 2: that college college guys like a little bit longer poor,

821
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,240
Speaker 2: Like that's really it, man, I want my beer super cold.

822
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,319
Speaker 2: So you know, guy comes up and beer like, hold on, man,

823
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 2: let me get to the bottom of the freezer.

824
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: Gets you really cool, right, whether you got the coldest

825
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: one or not.

826
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: Just the idea of saying like, hold on, man, let

827
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 2: me get you a really cold one, or let me

828
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: give a little bit more in that poor that you

829
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,880
Speaker 2: know that that rum and coke, I'm gonna give you

830
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 2: a seat of a five second four. I'm gonna give

831
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: you a little six six count poor right, And they're like, man,

832
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 2: this is strong, and they throw more tip in the

833
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 2: jar and then they keep coming back. It's I completely

834
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 2: get it. You don't need you don't need any extra training.

835
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 2: You just know, whether it's a bedside man or whatever.

836
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 3: The other thing I just say to that is that

837
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 3: people are best at what they most obsess about. Typically,

838
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,400
Speaker 3: it's too hard to be good at many things. So

839
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: in my mind, when I see someone, I'm asking myself,

840
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 3: what is really, really really important to them, what's the

841
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 3: most important thing to them? Because typically people behave in

842
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 3: a way that's congruent and supports the thing that's most

843
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:30,799
Speaker 3: important to them.

844
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: What's most important to you?

845
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 3: So at that time, what was most important to me

846
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 3: was making sure every customer left with a better day.

847
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 3: They're just like, this is amazing coffee. You guys are awesome.

848
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 3: They have a smile on their face they walk out

849
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 3: the door. I think I got that from my mom

850
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 3: because she's all about hospitality and as a people pleaser

851
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 3: and makes food for everybody and wants So I just

852
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 3: wanted to see people happier than when they walked in.

853
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 4: So if that was my obsession, what did that mean?

854
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: That meant that I needed to really focus and even

855
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 3: obsess about the people doing that. So that meant I

856
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 3: needed to hire the right people. I needed to train

857
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 3: the right people. So that was my singular focus. And

858
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 3: usually if you if you're if you're very if you're

859
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 3: obsessed about something, you're probably going to be better. You're

860
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: probably going to do you know, you do pretty pretty

861
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 3: good at it because your your mind is right. It's

862
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 3: like what occupies your mind? What occupies your mind the most?

863
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 2: All right, up, my thanks to the co founder of

864
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 2: Phil's Coffee and investor Jacob Jaber. That's part one, Part two.

865
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 2: I think that the great lessons in part two are,

866
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: you know, once you start growing and becoming huge, how

867
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: do you manage how do you manage that and maintain

868
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 2: the same level of quality and care?

869
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:00,800
Speaker 1: And what's next?

870
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: What's the next phase of growth for the company, what's

871
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 2: the next growth phase of growth for Jacob personally?

872
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: All that's upcoming.

873
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: Reminded, the Doug Gotlieb Show is daily three to five

874
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: Eastern time, well the two Pacific plus we got the

875
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 2: end the Bonus podcast, which is daily and you don't

876
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 2: want to miss it.

877
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 1: I'm Doug Gottlieb. This is all ball