WEBVTT - How Much Do Kids Really Cost? #075 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.960 Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.600 and today we're asking the question how much do kids 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:27.880 really cost? That's right. This episode, we're gonna talk about 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:30.600 the cost of raising kids. We're gonna talk about everything 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.480 from cost of childbirth and baby stuff to the big 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:35.760 things that cost a lot of money. And we're gonna 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.120 ask some tough questions too when it comes to the 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.960 expenses that we put towards our kids. Yeah, Matt. And 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:43.400 part of the reason behind doing this episode is because 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.360 the government comes out with a study every so often 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:47.880 that lets us know how expensive it is to raise 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:50.000 a kid in this country, and usually the number just 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:52.519 seems astronomical. And so yeah, we'll get into what the 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.040 most recent number was and why we don't think it 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:57.320 actually costs that much money to raise a kid. Yeah, Joel, 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.320 But first I have a quick grocery or garden money 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:02.360 saving tip. You ready for it? You are the grocery master, 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.200 bring it. It's not me, it's my wife. I'm gonna 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:06.280 brag on her for a minute. So this afternoon she 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:10.120 spent about ten minutes snipping and pruning some herbs that 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.800 she purchased at the store. It's a plant in our garden. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:14.960 She's doing that to root them so that we can 0:01:14.959 --> 0:01:17.120 plant in the garden because it's spring now. And explain 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.800 to people what rooting me. Well, essentially, you take herbs 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:21.319 and you snip them, you bring them in a certain 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.600 way and you stick them in water and the root 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.759 roots will grow out of the herb and it can 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.039 grow into a plant if you plan it soon after, right, 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.000 that's right, And so she was doing this today with 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:32.760 the basil and some tie basil mint. We do it 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:34.959 all the time with green onion, but you can also 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:37.720 do it with lots of stuff like a regano, rosemary, 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.080 time sage. A lot of times those herbs at the 0:01:41.080 --> 0:01:44.240 grocery store, you spend three bucks for a plastic container 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.240 and there's six sprigs of mint. Completely. But if you 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:49.920 plant mint in your yard, it'll grow like crazy because 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:53.760 mint is a weed. But it tastes so good delicious. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.120 You're gonna mint juelip or something or more into the beer. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.480 But yeah, that's a quick tip though, if you're into gardening, 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:01.600 like like we like to get into every now and then, 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.640 instead of going to the home depot or lows or 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:07.640 wherever and purchasing those herbs to plant, go to the 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.519 grocery store and take a few of the branches that 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.320 you don't end up cooking with are from a friend 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:14.440 who is growing someone's right, man, And yeah, that's a 0:02:14.440 --> 0:02:16.079 good way to kind of kick start your herb garden. 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:18.400 Yeah that's great because, like you said, herbs at the 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:21.399 grocery store kind of get outrageously expensive, So grow your own. 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.320 But Matt, let's quickly tell folks to the beer that 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.280 we're gonna be drinking while we do today's show. And 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.120 this is another beer from Spindle Tap, second one this week. 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:32.120 Pretty excited about this one. It's called Heavy Hands and 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.440 it's a double I p A. This label is pretty cool, 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:37.560 like eight bit kind of graphics, which goes along with 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:39.200 kind of our intro music. Yeah, I mean it's it's 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:42.280 totally got the Nintendo Mike Tyson's punch out graphics on there, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.079 and the in the dude instead of wearing boxing gloves, 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:45.800 he's got h he's got a little hops on his 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.280 on his hands instead of gloves. And that's for good 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.520 reason because this beer has a lot of hoppy goodness 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:52.840 in punch. I love it. Guess we'll talk more about 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:54.799 that at the end of the show. But onto the 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.160 subject at hand, Matt, Let's get into this how much 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.400 do kids really cost? And that study that I referenced 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:02.680 quickly at the beginning of the show is a federal 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:04.919 government study this show and the and the last time 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.240 they did this study was in two thousands seventeen, and 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:09.960 it showed that kids cost an average of two hundred 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.840 and thirty three thousand dollars from birth to age eighteen. 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.440 So that's before we're even talking about college. A kid 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.040 is gonna cost you pretty much a quarter of a 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.640 million dollars, which which is insane. That's thirteen thousand dollars 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.359 a year and a little over a thousand dollars a month, 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:28.840 and that's insane. Yeah. And I feel like every time 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:31.440 the study comes out, every year that it gets released, 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.400 it becomes water cooler talk like, wow, that's crazy, can 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:37.240 you believe it? And I feel like it's inflated. And 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:39.800 I feel like there are ways, Matt as parents, uh, 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:43.280 that we can lower the costs of having kids raising kids. 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:45.920 So we're gonna kind of get into that today. Yeah, 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.160 And so I mean that huge number, two thirty three 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.480 thousand dollars that does raise the question should folks consider 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:54.040 not having kids because they can't afford it, and that, 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:57.080 honestly is a really personal decision. But here's the thing. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.280 If you do think you need to get your finances 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:01.640 in order before having kids, make sure that you consider 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.080 the rising cost of health care. Specifically, I'm thinking of 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.000 back when we had our first daughter, the cost of 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.400 my wife's oh B was thirty dollars for the This 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.200 is for the global maternity care for coverage. We recently checked, 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.040 and that has shot up to over Man, that's at 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:22.520 increase in four years. And the reason why I know 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.480 that is because we're pregnant. Yeah. I was gonna say, 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.320 I was gonna say, why were you doing this research, Matthew. Yeah, 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:30.760 so we're insane and we're having another baby. Man, so 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:33.120 this is gonna be number four for the UH for 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:37.360 your family. Yeah. And I don't know how one does that, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:39.599 but I guess what you'll find out, right, Yeah, I 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.479 mean there's no choice at this point. Yeah, it's just 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.400 crazy that both of us that we're both having uh, 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.880 we're both having kids this year. It's gonna be a 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.000 wild year for for the how to money fam for sure. 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.840 He completely is. Yeah, I announced that that Emily is pregnant. 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.880 You know, a few episodes back, Matt, and congrats to 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:56.920 you and your family. I mean that's awesome. Yea, man, thanks, 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.560 I'm excited we'll have kids again close to the same age. 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:01.640 They get to kind of grow up together and learn 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:03.920 about their dad's weird money habits at the same time. 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:06.760 So true. Man, So back to the subject, which is 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.400 quite appropriate for for today, right, Yeah, I get announcement 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.360 for this episode. Yeah, so keep that in mind because 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.320 healthcare costs are going up. It goes without saying. And 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.159 I think we've mentioned this, Matt on a lot of 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:19.680 other shows. Having kids is priceless. It's completely worth it. 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:21.960 There's not much better. And I think that's why we're 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:24.920 launching into having a third and you're going, you're biting 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.479 the ball. You're going number four, dude. We're insane between 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.560 you guys and us, Like we're gonna have seven kids 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.719 between us. Yeah, it's crazy, that's not crazy. That's crazy. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.520 But that's because it's really not normal. That's because it 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:37.039 really and truly is so much fun. They're they're a blast. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.680 They keep you young, they teach you things, they make 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:42.640 you laugh. There's so much fun to be had with 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:46.160 young kids. You never stop laughing in such a worthwhile endeavor. 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.920 If you're if you're interested in having kids, don't forget 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.000 that they are also, at the same time, a financial 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.520 obligation that you'll be paying for for a lot of years. 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:56.280 They're not like the sticker shock two U thirty three 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.719 thousand dollar level costs. And so we're going to clarify 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.080 that as we go through this show. But we do 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.159 want to make sure that that we're able as parents 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.440 to strike that balance of being caring, loving and providing 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:09.280 while also not turning on the money's pigott and giving 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.440 them everything we want. And I think that that headline 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.600 number from the survey kind of can represent the way 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.560 that our society can tend to think of parenting. And 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.279 we make all these changes in order to become the 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.679 perfect parents and provide the perfect environment for our kids 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:26.280 to grow and thrive. And just like those herbs that 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:29.160 Kate planted, right, and she's growing into into little herb 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.200 trees or whatever you call um, yeah, herb tree, but 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:34.480 I think that's correct. I don't think that's right. But 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.760 but either way, we're propagating, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.880 But in the same way that you're taking those little 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.400 herbs and you're and you're rooting them and you're going 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.880 them into something. Our kids need a proper environment to thrive, 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.320 but at the same time, they don't necessarily need a 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:52.160 money's pigot that that provides them this quintessentially perfect environment 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.880 to thrive. So, just like anything else, if you're thinking 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.599 about having kids or if you do have kids, finding 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.320 a balance of where you can cut back in where 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.720 it's necessary to spend those extra dollars, that's really important. 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.440 So I'm excited a mat. I think we're gonna have 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:09.039 some good stuff. So some good takeaways in this episode 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:12.160 as we go through the cost of really having a kid. Yeah, man, 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:13.960 And before we do, I want to touch real quickly 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.800 on that study, right. So it was last updated in Seen, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.600 like you mentioned, and it showed a wide range of 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.200 how much people actually spent on a kid, and it 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.720 ranged from nine thousand dollars annually and this is from 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.560 a family that makes under sixty thou dollars a year 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.680 to over twenty three thousand dollars and this is from 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.440 a family that makes over a hundred and seven thousand dollars. 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:36.680 So what's so crazy about that is there's such range, right, Like, 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.800 what that tells me is that in reality, the family 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.880 that's only spending nine thousand dollars, well, that kid is 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:44.960 still thriving and surviving based on the report, Like that's 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.080 from a family that's making sixty dollars, Like that's how 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:49.400 much I make sometimes because we have a variable income, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:50.680 so it just depends on the year. But I guess 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.480 what I'm getting at is the lifestyle creep families that 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:56.320 tend to earn more, they're also spending more on their 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.080 kid as well, which is understandable. We increased the spending 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.480 on lots of things, so it's interesting to see that 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.680 the amount that we spend on our kids is not 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.640 immune to that lifestyle creep and matt Before we get 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.520 into specific one off items that we can kind of 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.080 reduce our spending on and figure out how to lower 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.920 the costs of actually raising kids, well, let's talk about 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.040 that study just a little bit more. And it actually 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:20.080 showed that the most expensive categories when it comes to 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.760 raising kids were the same as the highest cost of 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.600 an average American monthly budget, and that was housing, food 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.240 and transportation and it makes sense that as you add 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.160 to your family, you're going to spend more in those areas. Yeah, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:35.880 So it's just important to note that this isn't just 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:41.120 some ridiculous survey. It's really taking into account normal, everyday 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.920 spending categories for people and how those kind of tend 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.800 to inflate when you add children into the mix. Yeah, man, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.520 I found that incredibly fascinating the fact that like those 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:53.240 three things specifically housing, food, and transportation made up almost 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.520 sixty two of the money that we spend on our kids, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.800 which is pretty much in line, like you said, like 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.680 with what the average American and spends. The only top 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.440 category that stood out that was different that wouldn't be 0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:07.920 considered in an average Americans budget is childcare or education. 0:09:08.360 --> 0:09:10.960 Like you said, seeing those specific categories shows that there's 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:13.559 creep and there's sort of this inflation that happens when 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.400 you do have kids. And the fact is it doesn't 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.319 cost two hud three three thousand dollars to have a 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.319 kid because kids are really expensive. It costs the average 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.560 American two hundred and three three thousand dollars to have 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:26.640 a kid. Because the average American overspends, it seems that 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.200 that number is just indicative of the overall spending patterns 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.160 that we see in our country today, completely man, And 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:34.440 I think sometimes the sticker shock of seeing that survey 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.160 released every year kind of makes people think, well, why 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:39.400 do I want to have kids if it's so dangy expensive? 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.160 And so you know, I don't know you and I 0:09:41.200 --> 0:09:44.040 obviously we think kids are great, and we're having more 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.840 of them because because we think it's awesome for our families, 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:48.680 and and the more of the marrier, we kind of 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.360 have that mindset. I don't know, all the worst stopping 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:53.640 after this, so maybe the more the merrier up until 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.760 the point. Yeah, but let's get into some of the 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.559 specific costs and then break down those major costs to 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.040 like housing, food, and childcare and transportation. We'll get to 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:13.360 that right after the break. All right, Joe, let's go 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.680 ahead and start at the very beginning. We're gonna start 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:17.880 at childbirth. Do you want to give your birth story 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.040 real quick? Like? No, I do not wait my personal birth. 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:22.559 What was it like a dark, stormy night when you 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.880 came out of the womb? Yeah? I don't remember. Sorry, Okay, 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.280 there's a reason that babies don't remember that. That's true. 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.360 And so the cost honestly, it varies by state, and 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.760 the average vaginal delivery is between five and ten thousand 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.200 dollars depending on where you live. For me personally, like, 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:39.839 the most affordable birth that we had for one of 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:42.240 our daughters was five thousand dollars that we had to 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.800 pay out of pocket. And being self employed, this is 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.960 that's obviously a huge disadvantage when it comes to healthcare costs. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.360 But the best deal that we've gotten was five thousand 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.560 dollars when we did a pretty good job planning. The 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.079 worst deal that we got was paying around eleven thousand dollars, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:57.959 and that was because we were told that it was 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.760 going to be more affordable if we pay hash upfront 0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:03.520 and kind of get the discounted self pay rate. Dude, 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.680 that did not work out for us, no joke. Over 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:09.400 eleven thou dollars and that might work out for you, 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:12.959 but for us specifically, we had some additional expenses associated 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:15.600 with that birth, over eleven thollars to have a baby. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.880 That was a lot for us. Yeah, there's no refund 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.080 policy either, so so much of it depends on the 0:11:21.120 --> 0:11:24.120 insurance plan that you have. Certainly, the out of pocket 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:27.000 costs that you're going to incur when having a child 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.400 depends greatly on the sort of insurance that you have, 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.079 So if you are doing upfront self pay cash, that's 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:35.920 gonna be a totally different thing, right, Matt. And for 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.920 the folks out there with employer provided coverage, that's gonna 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.920 vary to to UH to a large degree based on 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:46.120 how your insurance company works with in network providers and 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.800 what percentage of your overall healthcare costs your employer chips in. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:52.160 The average price of both of our girls was right 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.160 around three thousand dollars. Fortunately, we have an f s 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:57.040 A through work, and so I would Yeah, that's one 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:58.719 thing that I want to recommend to folks is if 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.400 you do have an f s A, to max out 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:03.880 r f s A for the year that you're planning 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.720 on having a kid, and that will at least save 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:09.840 you taxes on that money that you're going to to 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.760 pay for the birth of that child. So that's super helpful. Yeah, man, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.200 get that discount. And for us, for baby number four, 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:16.719 we are actually, for the first time, I'm going to 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:18.760 be delivering at a birth center. So in the past 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.240 we've always gone to a hospital with the O B 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:23.400 that was associated with that hospital, and so you know 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.760 they had an office there as well. But with a 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.800 birth center, you don't go to the hospital. You give 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:30.400 birth at the birth center and that's where the midwives are. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:32.240 It's off the beaten path a little bit. It's a 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.040 little more, it's a little crunchy, it's little granola. But yeah, 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:37.600 that's how we roll. And there's certainly some cost savings 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:40.079 associated with that as well. Because this baby was a 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.600 little bit more of a surprise. We're in a situation 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.679 to where we didn't have the best insurance set up 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:48.719 for for this year to have a baby, and so 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.560 again we're gonna be paying out of pocket cash only 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.960 where our health coverage isn't gonna kick in, and so 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.440 we're getting a cash rate and that's gonna include everything 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.200 there at the birth center. And their way that they're 0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:00.840 able to keep cost down is that you don't have 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.920 a separate O B charge plus the hospital charge. Since 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.360 the care and the delivery are both happening at the 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:08.520 birth center, you basically are able to take those two 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:10.600 expenses and roll them into one. I thought you were 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:12.400 considering a home birth map. Now you don't want to 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.280 wanna go that route. You know you, and I know 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:17.920 somebody who actually did that. Very impressive, very impressive, And 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.080 there's no way my life or I would actually be 0:13:20.120 --> 0:13:22.240 into that. Freaked me out, man, same here, a little 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.679 a little frightening, right, yeah, So make sure to at 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.160 least know your options, whether a birthing center is a 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.840 better option for you, know what kind of insurance you have, 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.559 and whether you need to call around and negotiate upfront 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.440 cash prices. And also if you have recently given birth 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.920 and you're starting to get hospital bills in the mail, 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:42.280 make sure to call in and reach out to someone 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.080 in the financial assistance department of that hospital. Many many 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.840 hospitals are nonprofit entities, and so often they will forgive 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:51.920 a certain amount of the costs that you've incurred for 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.560 the costs of the birth based on your income level. 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.120 So it's worth talking to someone in that department to 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.440 see if you qualify, yeah or not even based on 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.760 your income. Man. So we had firsthand experience with this 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:04.600 with the eleven thousand dollar birth that I mentioned earlier. 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:08.360 Since that was self pay, we were billed directly and 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.600 the in enthusiologist send us a bill for which was 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:15.840 a nice surprise. And I did exactly that. I called 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:18.920 them up and it was an individual group, and just 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:20.760 by spending five minutes on the phone with him, they 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.400 knocked off five bucks, no joke, five minutes, five bucks, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.520 and they were basically expecting me to go ahead and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:28.840 pay that. But I kind of stuck on the phone 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:30.760 for another ten minutes, just saying if there's any way 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:32.720 I could get any more money off, and they knocked 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:34.800 another five bucks off. Man, I got that bill from 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:39.200 twenty down to by spending fifteen minutes on the phone. 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:41.280 You sound like a guy Coo commercial for hanging with 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.000 your antithesiologist. It was one of my proudest moments of 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.440 getting a deal in and negotiating down to price. But 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.240 but yeah, sometimes it doesn't even take you being in 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.800 a hardship program or something that's income based. It just 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:54.840 takes giving them a call and telling them your situation. Alright, Matt, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.160 now you get the baby in arms and take taking 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.720 that baby home. Well, you're gonna need baby stuff. You 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.440 know what car seats, and you're gonna need diapers and 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:04.160 all that kind of stuff. So let's talk a little 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:06.600 bit about that. Specifically. When it comes to diapers, I 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.400 feel like that's one of the main things that people 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.000 think about. Diapers are really expensive. And you mentioned at 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.280 one point in a recent episode that diapers were in 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.240 your grocery budget and they were kind of killing your 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.440 grocery budget to a certain extent, And I feel like 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:20.040 that's the case for a lot of folks. Diapers can 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:23.800 get really incredibly expensive quickly. And so Emily and I 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.560 we did cloth diapers for the first baby, and also 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.000 we did it for our second child as well, and 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:30.640 we kind of petered out though towards the end. We 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:33.040 kind of got tired of doing the cloth diapers, kind 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.160 of pooped out there we go. I like it, I 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.440 like it, Yeah, we we we did kind of. Uh 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.840 so we're hoping to kind of revamp the cloth diapers 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.800 on baby number three. They're certainly not as much of 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:46.520 a pain as they used to be, you know, back 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:48.480 in the back in the day, where they're essentially just 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.080 held on by a clothes pin with like the swaddle 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:54.880 wrapped around them. Yeah, exactly exactly. So, yeah, they're they're 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.960 not quite as bad as that. They've certainly improved to 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.080 a great degree. But you're doing laundry every single day 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.920 with cloth diapers because there's just a lot of pooh, 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.560 and so if you're willing to kind of suffer through that, 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.200 it can be a big monetary payoff. Oh yeah, it's 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.080 a substantial cost savings. I remember crunching the numbers with 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.160 our first daughter because we were in the same boat, 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:16.680 you know, we were trying to find a way to 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:19.240 save as much money as possible. And the upfront cost 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.560 is more when it comes to cloth diapers, but in 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.400 the long term it's significantly more affordable. And there's some 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.120 great breakdowns out there on the web that take into 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:28.680 account the cost of the diapers, the cost of utility, 0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.000 the cost of water and detergent. All those things taken 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:35.080 together are still much much more affordable than the cost 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:37.920 of disposable diapers over the same period of time. Yeah, 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.560 and quickly, if you are looking to do cloth diapers, 0:16:40.600 --> 0:16:43.920 there are all sorts of used clothing stores. Used baby 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.760 clothing in particular is a way to go, and you 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:49.040 can find used diapers there as well. And if they've 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.440 been bleached and and clean thoroughly, used cloth diapers are 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.480 actually not a bad purchase. And so when it comes 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.880 to car seats, there are some completely safe and affordable 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.360 car seats out there as low as four bucks right now. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:04.639 I looked today on Amazon uh and up to you 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:06.239 can spend a ton of money on like the one 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.960 that comes from Italy spent three fifty bucks. There's a 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.960 huge range of options out there for you, and there's 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:14.399 other options to consider to like maybe borrowing our friends 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.280 if you know that they hadn't been in an accident, 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.120 they know that they want to hang onto that seat 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:19.880 for a while because they're gonna have another kid maybe 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:21.960 in a couple of years, Well put that thing to use. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:24.760 Borrow that from a friend. Yeah. I actually bought a 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.880 used car seat for our first daughter, and I wrote 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:29.440 about it on the internet, and I kind of got 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.240 some flak for it, but I was totally cool. I 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:35.359 bought one in the neighborhood from someone that honestly not 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.560 even someone I met before that day, but they were 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.560 in the neighborhood. They were super local, and I talked 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:41.920 to them, and so I was comfortable buying that car 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.359 seat used. It was most important to me was that 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:46.760 that car seat was in date, that they told me 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:48.720 that it had not been in an accident, and that 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:50.800 it was a well reviewed car seat as opposed to 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.080 buying the the cheapest one that I could buy online, 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.040 buying a really well reviewed one that was less expensive 0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:58.800 because I was able to buy it used. And you 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:00.919 mentioned in date, and what you mean by that is 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.800 that car seats have an expiration date, which is kind 0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:05.399 of this weird thing that they have. It's not like 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.200 it's a perishable food item or a beer. But yeah, 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.120 the fact is that there's dates on there, and it's 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.120