Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I'm Matt
Speaker 1: and today we're asking the question how much do kids
Speaker 1: really cost? That's right. This episode, we're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: the cost of raising kids. We're gonna talk about everything
Speaker 1: from cost of childbirth and baby stuff to the big
Speaker 1: things that cost a lot of money. And we're gonna
Speaker 1: ask some tough questions too when it comes to the
Speaker 1: expenses that we put towards our kids. Yeah, Matt. And
Speaker 1: part of the reason behind doing this episode is because
Speaker 1: the government comes out with a study every so often
Speaker 1: that lets us know how expensive it is to raise
Speaker 1: a kid in this country, and usually the number just
Speaker 1: seems astronomical. And so yeah, we'll get into what the
Speaker 1: most recent number was and why we don't think it
Speaker 1: actually costs that much money to raise a kid. Yeah, Joel,
Speaker 1: But first I have a quick grocery or garden money
Speaker 1: saving tip. You ready for it? You are the grocery master,
Speaker 1: bring it. It's not me, it's my wife. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: brag on her for a minute. So this afternoon she
Speaker 1: spent about ten minutes snipping and pruning some herbs that
Speaker 1: she purchased at the store. It's a plant in our garden.
Speaker 1: She's doing that to root them so that we can
Speaker 1: plant in the garden because it's spring now. And explain
Speaker 1: to people what rooting me. Well, essentially, you take herbs
Speaker 1: and you snip them, you bring them in a certain
Speaker 1: way and you stick them in water and the root
Speaker 1: roots will grow out of the herb and it can
Speaker 1: grow into a plant if you plan it soon after, right,
Speaker 1: that's right, And so she was doing this today with
Speaker 1: the basil and some tie basil mint. We do it
Speaker 1: all the time with green onion, but you can also
Speaker 1: do it with lots of stuff like a regano, rosemary,
Speaker 1: time sage. A lot of times those herbs at the
Speaker 1: grocery store, you spend three bucks for a plastic container
Speaker 1: and there's six sprigs of mint. Completely. But if you
Speaker 1: plant mint in your yard, it'll grow like crazy because
Speaker 1: mint is a weed. But it tastes so good delicious.
Speaker 1: You're gonna mint juelip or something or more into the beer.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's a quick tip though, if you're into gardening,
Speaker 1: like like we like to get into every now and then,
Speaker 1: instead of going to the home depot or lows or
Speaker 1: wherever and purchasing those herbs to plant, go to the
Speaker 1: grocery store and take a few of the branches that
Speaker 1: you don't end up cooking with are from a friend
Speaker 1: who is growing someone's right, man, And yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: good way to kind of kick start your herb garden.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's great because, like you said, herbs at the
Speaker 1: grocery store kind of get outrageously expensive, So grow your own.
Speaker 1: But Matt, let's quickly tell folks to the beer that
Speaker 1: we're gonna be drinking while we do today's show. And
Speaker 1: this is another beer from Spindle Tap, second one this week.
Speaker 1: Pretty excited about this one. It's called Heavy Hands and
Speaker 1: it's a double I p A. This label is pretty cool,
Speaker 1: like eight bit kind of graphics, which goes along with
Speaker 1: kind of our intro music. Yeah, I mean it's it's
Speaker 1: totally got the Nintendo Mike Tyson's punch out graphics on there,
Speaker 1: and the in the dude instead of wearing boxing gloves,
Speaker 1: he's got h he's got a little hops on his
Speaker 1: on his hands instead of gloves. And that's for good
Speaker 1: reason because this beer has a lot of hoppy goodness
Speaker 1: in punch. I love it. Guess we'll talk more about
Speaker 1: that at the end of the show. But onto the
Speaker 1: subject at hand, Matt, Let's get into this how much
Speaker 1: do kids really cost? And that study that I referenced
Speaker 1: quickly at the beginning of the show is a federal
Speaker 1: government study this show and the and the last time
Speaker 1: they did this study was in two thousands seventeen, and
Speaker 1: it showed that kids cost an average of two hundred
Speaker 1: and thirty three thousand dollars from birth to age eighteen.
Speaker 1: So that's before we're even talking about college. A kid
Speaker 1: is gonna cost you pretty much a quarter of a
Speaker 1: million dollars, which which is insane. That's thirteen thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a year and a little over a thousand dollars a month,
Speaker 1: and that's insane. Yeah. And I feel like every time
Speaker 1: the study comes out, every year that it gets released,
Speaker 1: it becomes water cooler talk like, wow, that's crazy, can
Speaker 1: you believe it? And I feel like it's inflated. And
Speaker 1: I feel like there are ways, Matt as parents, uh,
Speaker 1: that we can lower the costs of having kids raising kids.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna kind of get into that today. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so I mean that huge number, two thirty three
Speaker 1: thousand dollars that does raise the question should folks consider
Speaker 1: not having kids because they can't afford it, and that,
Speaker 1: honestly is a really personal decision. But here's the thing.
Speaker 1: If you do think you need to get your finances
Speaker 1: in order before having kids, make sure that you consider
Speaker 1: the rising cost of health care. Specifically, I'm thinking of
Speaker 1: back when we had our first daughter, the cost of
Speaker 1: my wife's oh B was thirty dollars for the This
Speaker 1: is for the global maternity care for coverage. We recently checked,
Speaker 1: and that has shot up to over Man, that's at
Speaker 1: increase in four years. And the reason why I know
Speaker 1: that is because we're pregnant. Yeah. I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, why were you doing this research, Matthew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we're insane and we're having another baby. Man, so
Speaker 1: this is gonna be number four for the UH for
Speaker 1: your family. Yeah. And I don't know how one does that,
Speaker 1: but I guess what you'll find out, right, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there's no choice at this point. Yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: crazy that both of us that we're both having uh,
Speaker 1: we're both having kids this year. It's gonna be a
Speaker 1: wild year for for the how to money fam for sure.
Speaker 1: He completely is. Yeah, I announced that that Emily is pregnant.
Speaker 1: You know, a few episodes back, Matt, and congrats to
Speaker 1: you and your family. I mean that's awesome. Yea, man, thanks,
Speaker 1: I'm excited we'll have kids again close to the same age.
Speaker 1: They get to kind of grow up together and learn
Speaker 1: about their dad's weird money habits at the same time.
Speaker 1: So true. Man, So back to the subject, which is
Speaker 1: quite appropriate for for today, right, Yeah, I get announcement
Speaker 1: for this episode. Yeah, so keep that in mind because
Speaker 1: healthcare costs are going up. It goes without saying. And
Speaker 1: I think we've mentioned this, Matt on a lot of
Speaker 1: other shows. Having kids is priceless. It's completely worth it.
Speaker 1: There's not much better. And I think that's why we're
Speaker 1: launching into having a third and you're going, you're biting
Speaker 1: the ball. You're going number four, dude. We're insane between
Speaker 1: you guys and us, Like we're gonna have seven kids
Speaker 1: between us. Yeah, it's crazy, that's not crazy. That's crazy.
Speaker 1: But that's because it's really not normal. That's because it
Speaker 1: really and truly is so much fun. They're they're a blast.
Speaker 1: They keep you young, they teach you things, they make
Speaker 1: you laugh. There's so much fun to be had with
Speaker 1: young kids. You never stop laughing in such a worthwhile endeavor.
Speaker 1: If you're if you're interested in having kids, don't forget
Speaker 1: that they are also, at the same time, a financial
Speaker 1: obligation that you'll be paying for for a lot of years.
Speaker 1: They're not like the sticker shock two U thirty three
Speaker 1: thousand dollar level costs. And so we're going to clarify
Speaker 1: that as we go through this show. But we do
Speaker 1: want to make sure that that we're able as parents
Speaker 1: to strike that balance of being caring, loving and providing
Speaker 1: while also not turning on the money's pigott and giving
Speaker 1: them everything we want. And I think that that headline
Speaker 1: number from the survey kind of can represent the way
Speaker 1: that our society can tend to think of parenting. And
Speaker 1: we make all these changes in order to become the
Speaker 1: perfect parents and provide the perfect environment for our kids
Speaker 1: to grow and thrive. And just like those herbs that
Speaker 1: Kate planted, right, and she's growing into into little herb
Speaker 1: trees or whatever you call um, yeah, herb tree, but
Speaker 1: I think that's correct. I don't think that's right. But
Speaker 1: but either way, we're propagating, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: But in the same way that you're taking those little
Speaker 1: herbs and you're and you're rooting them and you're going
Speaker 1: them into something. Our kids need a proper environment to thrive,
Speaker 1: but at the same time, they don't necessarily need a
Speaker 1: money's pigot that that provides them this quintessentially perfect environment
Speaker 1: to thrive. So, just like anything else, if you're thinking
Speaker 1: about having kids or if you do have kids, finding
Speaker 1: a balance of where you can cut back in where
Speaker 1: it's necessary to spend those extra dollars, that's really important.
Speaker 1: So I'm excited a mat. I think we're gonna have
Speaker 1: some good stuff. So some good takeaways in this episode
Speaker 1: as we go through the cost of really having a kid. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: And before we do, I want to touch real quickly
Speaker 1: on that study, right. So it was last updated in Seen,
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, and it showed a wide range of
Speaker 1: how much people actually spent on a kid, and it
Speaker 1: ranged from nine thousand dollars annually and this is from
Speaker 1: a family that makes under sixty thou dollars a year
Speaker 1: to over twenty three thousand dollars and this is from
Speaker 1: a family that makes over a hundred and seven thousand dollars.
Speaker 1: So what's so crazy about that is there's such range, right, Like,
Speaker 1: what that tells me is that in reality, the family
Speaker 1: that's only spending nine thousand dollars, well, that kid is
Speaker 1: still thriving and surviving based on the report, Like that's
Speaker 1: from a family that's making sixty dollars, Like that's how
Speaker 1: much I make sometimes because we have a variable income,
Speaker 1: so it just depends on the year. But I guess
Speaker 1: what I'm getting at is the lifestyle creep families that
Speaker 1: tend to earn more, they're also spending more on their
Speaker 1: kid as well, which is understandable. We increased the spending
Speaker 1: on lots of things, so it's interesting to see that
Speaker 1: the amount that we spend on our kids is not
Speaker 1: immune to that lifestyle creep and matt Before we get
Speaker 1: into specific one off items that we can kind of
Speaker 1: reduce our spending on and figure out how to lower
Speaker 1: the costs of actually raising kids, well, let's talk about
Speaker 1: that study just a little bit more. And it actually
Speaker 1: showed that the most expensive categories when it comes to
Speaker 1: raising kids were the same as the highest cost of
Speaker 1: an average American monthly budget, and that was housing, food
Speaker 1: and transportation and it makes sense that as you add
Speaker 1: to your family, you're going to spend more in those areas. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's just important to note that this isn't just
Speaker 1: some ridiculous survey. It's really taking into account normal, everyday
Speaker 1: spending categories for people and how those kind of tend
Speaker 1: to inflate when you add children into the mix. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I found that incredibly fascinating the fact that like those
Speaker 1: three things specifically housing, food, and transportation made up almost
Speaker 1: sixty two of the money that we spend on our kids,
Speaker 1: which is pretty much in line, like you said, like
Speaker 1: with what the average American and spends. The only top
Speaker 1: category that stood out that was different that wouldn't be
Speaker 1: considered in an average Americans budget is childcare or education.
Speaker 1: Like you said, seeing those specific categories shows that there's
Speaker 1: creep and there's sort of this inflation that happens when
Speaker 1: you do have kids. And the fact is it doesn't
Speaker 1: cost two hud three three thousand dollars to have a
Speaker 1: kid because kids are really expensive. It costs the average
Speaker 1: American two hundred and three three thousand dollars to have
Speaker 1: a kid. Because the average American overspends, it seems that
Speaker 1: that number is just indicative of the overall spending patterns
Speaker 1: that we see in our country today, completely man, And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes the sticker shock of seeing that survey
Speaker 1: released every year kind of makes people think, well, why
Speaker 1: do I want to have kids if it's so dangy expensive?
Speaker 1: And so you know, I don't know you and I
Speaker 1: obviously we think kids are great, and we're having more
Speaker 1: of them because because we think it's awesome for our families,
Speaker 1: and and the more of the marrier, we kind of
Speaker 1: have that mindset. I don't know, all the worst stopping
Speaker 1: after this, so maybe the more the merrier up until
Speaker 1: the point. Yeah, but let's get into some of the
Speaker 1: specific costs and then break down those major costs to
Speaker 1: like housing, food, and childcare and transportation. We'll get to
Speaker 1: that right after the break. All right, Joe, let's go
Speaker 1: ahead and start at the very beginning. We're gonna start
Speaker 1: at childbirth. Do you want to give your birth story
Speaker 1: real quick? Like? No, I do not wait my personal birth.
Speaker 1: What was it like a dark, stormy night when you
Speaker 1: came out of the womb? Yeah? I don't remember. Sorry, Okay,
Speaker 1: there's a reason that babies don't remember that. That's true.
Speaker 1: And so the cost honestly, it varies by state, and
Speaker 1: the average vaginal delivery is between five and ten thousand
Speaker 1: dollars depending on where you live. For me personally, like,
Speaker 1: the most affordable birth that we had for one of
Speaker 1: our daughters was five thousand dollars that we had to
Speaker 1: pay out of pocket. And being self employed, this is
Speaker 1: that's obviously a huge disadvantage when it comes to healthcare costs.
Speaker 1: But the best deal that we've gotten was five thousand
Speaker 1: dollars when we did a pretty good job planning. The
Speaker 1: worst deal that we got was paying around eleven thousand dollars,
Speaker 1: and that was because we were told that it was
Speaker 1: going to be more affordable if we pay hash upfront
Speaker 1: and kind of get the discounted self pay rate. Dude,
Speaker 1: that did not work out for us, no joke. Over
Speaker 1: eleven thou dollars and that might work out for you,
Speaker 1: but for us specifically, we had some additional expenses associated
Speaker 1: with that birth, over eleven thollars to have a baby.
Speaker 1: That was a lot for us. Yeah, there's no refund
Speaker 1: policy either, so so much of it depends on the
Speaker 1: insurance plan that you have. Certainly, the out of pocket
Speaker 1: costs that you're going to incur when having a child
Speaker 1: depends greatly on the sort of insurance that you have,
Speaker 1: So if you are doing upfront self pay cash, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be a totally different thing, right, Matt. And for
Speaker 1: the folks out there with employer provided coverage, that's gonna
Speaker 1: vary to to UH to a large degree based on
Speaker 1: how your insurance company works with in network providers and
Speaker 1: what percentage of your overall healthcare costs your employer chips in.
Speaker 1: The average price of both of our girls was right
Speaker 1: around three thousand dollars. Fortunately, we have an f s
Speaker 1: A through work, and so I would Yeah, that's one
Speaker 1: thing that I want to recommend to folks is if
Speaker 1: you do have an f s A, to max out
Speaker 1: r f s A for the year that you're planning
Speaker 1: on having a kid, and that will at least save
Speaker 1: you taxes on that money that you're going to to
Speaker 1: pay for the birth of that child. So that's super helpful. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: get that discount. And for us, for baby number four,
Speaker 1: we are actually, for the first time, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be delivering at a birth center. So in the past
Speaker 1: we've always gone to a hospital with the O B
Speaker 1: that was associated with that hospital, and so you know
Speaker 1: they had an office there as well. But with a
Speaker 1: birth center, you don't go to the hospital. You give
Speaker 1: birth at the birth center and that's where the midwives are.
Speaker 1: It's off the beaten path a little bit. It's a
Speaker 1: little more, it's a little crunchy, it's little granola. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how we roll. And there's certainly some cost savings
Speaker 1: associated with that as well. Because this baby was a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a surprise. We're in a situation
Speaker 1: to where we didn't have the best insurance set up
Speaker 1: for for this year to have a baby, and so
Speaker 1: again we're gonna be paying out of pocket cash only
Speaker 1: where our health coverage isn't gonna kick in, and so
Speaker 1: we're getting a cash rate and that's gonna include everything
Speaker 1: there at the birth center. And their way that they're
Speaker 1: able to keep cost down is that you don't have
Speaker 1: a separate O B charge plus the hospital charge. Since
Speaker 1: the care and the delivery are both happening at the
Speaker 1: birth center, you basically are able to take those two
Speaker 1: expenses and roll them into one. I thought you were
Speaker 1: considering a home birth map. Now you don't want to
Speaker 1: wanna go that route. You know you, and I know
Speaker 1: somebody who actually did that. Very impressive, very impressive, And
Speaker 1: there's no way my life or I would actually be
Speaker 1: into that. Freaked me out, man, same here, a little
Speaker 1: a little frightening, right, yeah, So make sure to at
Speaker 1: least know your options, whether a birthing center is a
Speaker 1: better option for you, know what kind of insurance you have,
Speaker 1: and whether you need to call around and negotiate upfront
Speaker 1: cash prices. And also if you have recently given birth
Speaker 1: and you're starting to get hospital bills in the mail,
Speaker 1: make sure to call in and reach out to someone
Speaker 1: in the financial assistance department of that hospital. Many many
Speaker 1: hospitals are nonprofit entities, and so often they will forgive
Speaker 1: a certain amount of the costs that you've incurred for
Speaker 1: the costs of the birth based on your income level.
Speaker 1: So it's worth talking to someone in that department to
Speaker 1: see if you qualify, yeah or not even based on
Speaker 1: your income. Man. So we had firsthand experience with this
Speaker 1: with the eleven thousand dollar birth that I mentioned earlier.
Speaker 1: Since that was self pay, we were billed directly and
Speaker 1: the in enthusiologist send us a bill for which was
Speaker 1: a nice surprise. And I did exactly that. I called
Speaker 1: them up and it was an individual group, and just
Speaker 1: by spending five minutes on the phone with him, they
Speaker 1: knocked off five bucks, no joke, five minutes, five bucks,
Speaker 1: and they were basically expecting me to go ahead and
Speaker 1: pay that. But I kind of stuck on the phone
Speaker 1: for another ten minutes, just saying if there's any way
Speaker 1: I could get any more money off, and they knocked
Speaker 1: another five bucks off. Man, I got that bill from
Speaker 1: twenty down to by spending fifteen minutes on the phone.
Speaker 1: You sound like a guy Coo commercial for hanging with
Speaker 1: your antithesiologist. It was one of my proudest moments of
Speaker 1: getting a deal in and negotiating down to price. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, sometimes it doesn't even take you being in
Speaker 1: a hardship program or something that's income based. It just
Speaker 1: takes giving them a call and telling them your situation. Alright, Matt,
Speaker 1: now you get the baby in arms and take taking
Speaker 1: that baby home. Well, you're gonna need baby stuff. You
Speaker 1: know what car seats, and you're gonna need diapers and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. So let's talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about that. Specifically. When it comes to diapers, I
Speaker 1: feel like that's one of the main things that people
Speaker 1: think about. Diapers are really expensive. And you mentioned at
Speaker 1: one point in a recent episode that diapers were in
Speaker 1: your grocery budget and they were kind of killing your
Speaker 1: grocery budget to a certain extent, And I feel like
Speaker 1: that's the case for a lot of folks. Diapers can
Speaker 1: get really incredibly expensive quickly. And so Emily and I
Speaker 1: we did cloth diapers for the first baby, and also
Speaker 1: we did it for our second child as well, and
Speaker 1: we kind of petered out though towards the end. We
Speaker 1: kind of got tired of doing the cloth diapers, kind
Speaker 1: of pooped out there we go. I like it, I
Speaker 1: like it, Yeah, we we we did kind of. Uh
Speaker 1: so we're hoping to kind of revamp the cloth diapers
Speaker 1: on baby number three. They're certainly not as much of
Speaker 1: a pain as they used to be, you know, back
Speaker 1: in the back in the day, where they're essentially just
Speaker 1: held on by a clothes pin with like the swaddle
Speaker 1: wrapped around them. Yeah, exactly exactly. So, yeah, they're they're
Speaker 1: not quite as bad as that. They've certainly improved to
Speaker 1: a great degree. But you're doing laundry every single day
Speaker 1: with cloth diapers because there's just a lot of pooh,
Speaker 1: and so if you're willing to kind of suffer through that,
Speaker 1: it can be a big monetary payoff. Oh yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a substantial cost savings. I remember crunching the numbers with
Speaker 1: our first daughter because we were in the same boat,
Speaker 1: you know, we were trying to find a way to
Speaker 1: save as much money as possible. And the upfront cost
Speaker 1: is more when it comes to cloth diapers, but in
Speaker 1: the long term it's significantly more affordable. And there's some
Speaker 1: great breakdowns out there on the web that take into
Speaker 1: account the cost of the diapers, the cost of utility,
Speaker 1: the cost of water and detergent. All those things taken
Speaker 1: together are still much much more affordable than the cost
Speaker 1: of disposable diapers over the same period of time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and quickly, if you are looking to do cloth diapers,
Speaker 1: there are all sorts of used clothing stores. Used baby
Speaker 1: clothing in particular is a way to go, and you
Speaker 1: can find used diapers there as well. And if they've
Speaker 1: been bleached and and clean thoroughly, used cloth diapers are
Speaker 1: actually not a bad purchase. And so when it comes
Speaker 1: to car seats, there are some completely safe and affordable
Speaker 1: car seats out there as low as four bucks right now.
Speaker 1: I looked today on Amazon uh and up to you
Speaker 1: can spend a ton of money on like the one
Speaker 1: that comes from Italy spent three fifty bucks. There's a
Speaker 1: huge range of options out there for you, and there's
Speaker 1: other options to consider to like maybe borrowing our friends
Speaker 1: if you know that they hadn't been in an accident,
Speaker 1: they know that they want to hang onto that seat
Speaker 1: for a while because they're gonna have another kid maybe
Speaker 1: in a couple of years, Well put that thing to use.
Speaker 1: Borrow that from a friend. Yeah. I actually bought a
Speaker 1: used car seat for our first daughter, and I wrote
Speaker 1: about it on the internet, and I kind of got
Speaker 1: some flak for it, but I was totally cool. I
Speaker 1: bought one in the neighborhood from someone that honestly not
Speaker 1: even someone I met before that day, but they were
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood. They were super local, and I talked
Speaker 1: to them, and so I was comfortable buying that car
Speaker 1: seat used. It was most important to me was that
Speaker 1: that car seat was in date, that they told me
Speaker 1: that it had not been in an accident, and that
Speaker 1: it was a well reviewed car seat as opposed to
Speaker 1: buying the the cheapest one that I could buy online,
Speaker 1: buying a really well reviewed one that was less expensive
Speaker 1: because I was able to buy it used. And you
Speaker 1: mentioned in date, and what you mean by that is
Speaker 1: that car seats have an expiration date, which is kind
Speaker 1: of this weird thing that they have. It's not like
Speaker 1: it's a perishable food item or a beer. But yeah,
Speaker 1: the fact is that there's dates on there, and it's
Speaker 1: law that you can't use a car seat beyond that
Speaker 1: expiration date. So obviously you want to make sure that
Speaker 1: you take that into account. And by the way, on
Speaker 1: the note of baby stuff, there are so many other
Speaker 1: baby supplies that add to the cost of having a
Speaker 1: kid when we buy them new and when we buy
Speaker 1: the fancy stuff. And I think, especially if it's your
Speaker 1: first kid, it's easy to think that you need to
Speaker 1: get all acquire all these new items. But these new
Speaker 1: baby items like a stroller or a crib, they lose
Speaker 1: their value super quickly. It's very very similar to buying
Speaker 1: a new car in how rapidly those items depreciate. And
Speaker 1: if you had just bought something gently used, you would
Speaker 1: have enjoyed it just as much. But you would have
Speaker 1: saved a ton of money in the process. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: still would have gotten the job done. Yeah. Plus, this
Speaker 1: is baby stuff, right, It doesn't keep like that fresh
Speaker 1: new out of the box smell for very long. Anyway.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of cribs too, man. There's an eight hundred
Speaker 1: dollar crib out there that you can get that's really fancy,
Speaker 1: really cool looking from West Elm. Or you can buy
Speaker 1: the affordable crib that does a fantastic job, and you
Speaker 1: can buy it used. Like we spent forty bucks on
Speaker 1: a crib for our first daughter and we usually still alive.
Speaker 1: She made it. Yes, not only did she, but our
Speaker 1: two other daughters did as well. We used that crib
Speaker 1: for three daughters and we haven't talked about it, but
Speaker 1: I guess we're gonna use that for our fourth baby
Speaker 1: as well. But there's just huge savings, like you said, Jill,
Speaker 1: and buying used, all right, Matt. So let's get to
Speaker 1: the four big categories that are the biggest influences in
Speaker 1: how much a kid actually cost and then what you
Speaker 1: can do to lower the costs in your life. The
Speaker 1: first one is housing, and that, according to the survey,
Speaker 1: is of that overall two dollar figure, Juel, And this
Speaker 1: can kind of maybe be a confusing number because it's
Speaker 1: not like you're building a house out back where you
Speaker 1: have to pay a new mortgage on a house that
Speaker 1: now your baby lives in. You think, oh, we already
Speaker 1: have a house. But the way that the report calculated
Speaker 1: this cost is they they figured out the cost of
Speaker 1: an additional room on your house, and so certainly they
Speaker 1: don't take into account things like a kitchen or bathrooms,
Speaker 1: because you don't need more kitchens when you have a baby,
Speaker 1: but you might need an additional room. So that's how
Speaker 1: they figured out what these comparable cost of housing would be.
Speaker 1: And a lot of folks feel that need for additional space,
Speaker 1: But honestly, I think this is overblown, Like this might
Speaker 1: be true for a lot of people, but it's it's
Speaker 1: really not the case. Joel. You've got two daughters sharing
Speaker 1: a room. We've got three girls together in the same room,
Speaker 1: and that's worked out incredibly well. To think that some
Speaker 1: families out there are thinking, oh, we've got three kids,
Speaker 1: we need three additional rooms. I can see how the
Speaker 1: cost of you know, raising a kid could skyrocket if
Speaker 1: you're taking all those additional rooms into account. Matt. I
Speaker 1: kind of grew up watching a little bit of a
Speaker 1: little house on the prairie, and they those girls slept
Speaker 1: on like a lofted hey kind of situation, right, So
Speaker 1: I think they squeezed a bunch of kids into that
Speaker 1: tiny house. And when you look at the way that
Speaker 1: home sizes have grown in the United States over the
Speaker 1: past forty years, they've grown in quite a big way.
Speaker 1: And so to think that the current size of homes
Speaker 1: is normal and is necessary, it's just crazy talk. It's
Speaker 1: just it's just not in to any way that you
Speaker 1: can cut back on your housing costs, any way that
Speaker 1: you can put more kids sleeping in the same room,
Speaker 1: in any way that you can delay moving from one
Speaker 1: house to another in order to accommodate your growing family.
Speaker 1: That's going to be a big boon to your finances
Speaker 1: and it's going to really hold back that number, that
Speaker 1: overall number they're gonna spend on the cost of really
Speaker 1: raising a kid. Yeah, with babies and new kids come
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, and honestly, I think one of
Speaker 1: the best ways to combat that is well, first to
Speaker 1: not have as much stuff, but to organize that stuff.
Speaker 1: And one of the best ways to stay put and
Speaker 1: to make the house that you have make do and
Speaker 1: work is to organize all that stuff. You know, you
Speaker 1: can spend a few hundred dollars on organization and you
Speaker 1: might think, wow, that's a lot of money to spend
Speaker 1: on shelving and storage solutions. But when you compare that
Speaker 1: to the amount of money that you could be saving,
Speaker 1: like maybe even thousands and thousands of dollars because you're
Speaker 1: able to stay put in the same house and not
Speaker 1: get a new mortgage because you're forced to buy a
Speaker 1: larger house, Well, that's gonna be a huge way to
Speaker 1: save some money. And so food was the next major
Speaker 1: line item in the study that we're referencing. So your
Speaker 1: grocery budget is going to go up when you have
Speaker 1: a kid, there's no preventing that, right, But the report
Speaker 1: showed that on average, the percentage of food budgets spent
Speaker 1: on kids was equal to that of adults. And Matt,
Speaker 1: we've talked before about how your children actually kind of
Speaker 1: eat more than your wife, So so that's true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is totally true for us. So the best way
Speaker 1: to keep your costs down is to not not feed
Speaker 1: your kids, but to slim down your overall grocery bill.
Speaker 1: And we have an episode episode thirty four where we
Speaker 1: talked about that extensively, And there are a lot of
Speaker 1: ways in which you can cut your grocery bill, but quickly,
Speaker 1: just a couple of things. Shop at one of the
Speaker 1: cheapest possible grocery stores, and that is all the If
Speaker 1: you have an all D close by, that's gonna be
Speaker 1: a great way for you to save money. No matter what.
Speaker 1: The amount that it costs for me to eat is
Speaker 1: about the same it costs for my daughters as well.
Speaker 1: One of the tricks and making that work is to
Speaker 1: make sure that your kids are eating one to one
Speaker 1: with you as far as the actual food. What I
Speaker 1: mean by that is to avoid kid branded food. There's
Speaker 1: lots of puffs and foods that are geared specifically towards kids,
Speaker 1: in particular when it comes to snacks, and you're paying
Speaker 1: tons of money for puffed air. Basically it's like puffed
Speaker 1: a with a little bit of flavoring in it. But
Speaker 1: if you can stay away from those very expensive kid
Speaker 1: treats and snacks and instead try to get them to
Speaker 1: eat the real food that you're eating, like the actual
Speaker 1: vegetables and the actual meats and grains and fruits. That
Speaker 1: is such an important and key way to keep your
Speaker 1: grocery budget and check. And honestly, for us, that's just
Speaker 1: been a very meaningful way for us to eat together
Speaker 1: as a family, Like we're all eating the same thing.
Speaker 1: It's not as if the different kids have their own meals,
Speaker 1: because it's just what they require, what they demand. Certainly
Speaker 1: there's a lot of kids that might have special dietary requirements,
Speaker 1: but beyond that, trying to get your kids eating the
Speaker 1: same food that you're eating. Another way to lower the
Speaker 1: cost of food in your life when you have a
Speaker 1: kid is to stop eating out, especially after you have kids.
Speaker 1: The more you eat out, the more it's going to
Speaker 1: cost you. Grained, Yeah, what a kids eating Typically when
Speaker 1: you're when you go out to eat, they're eating something
Speaker 1: out the kids menu. It's a little bit cheaper than
Speaker 1: the adult entree. But I'll say this, I remember growing
Speaker 1: up and we we rarely rarely ate out, even fast food.
Speaker 1: It just was so much more to stop at need
Speaker 1: at McDonald's or Burger King or whatever. It was a
Speaker 1: huge deal to do that. It was a completely huge deal.
Speaker 1: We just didn't do it because it was so much
Speaker 1: cheaper to eat at home, and so I think if
Speaker 1: you weigh the costs of eating out, especially when you
Speaker 1: have kids, the cost of eating at home just pales
Speaker 1: in comparison. It's so much cheaper. And so yeah, when
Speaker 1: you can cut that out. My wife and I we
Speaker 1: like to go out for date night together when when
Speaker 1: it's just the two of us, but we don't go
Speaker 1: out to eat as a family very often because the
Speaker 1: cost just adds up so quickly. And the third category
Speaker 1: when it comes to expenses on children is childcare and education,
Speaker 1: which takes about six of the total. And you know,
Speaker 1: this is really hardest when both parents are working and
Speaker 1: the kids are young. Dude. In some cities, in particular
Speaker 1: up in the Northeast, it can cost up to eighteen
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a month in childcare, which mean, I can't
Speaker 1: even fathom. That's just such an unbelievable large amount of money.
Speaker 1: And so some ways that you can try to reduce
Speaker 1: that is when it comes to your childcare, like ask
Speaker 1: for sibling discounts. A lot of times with daycares, that's
Speaker 1: something that they offer, but they don't post it anywhere
Speaker 1: and you don't get that discount unless you ask my
Speaker 1: buddy Alex to just how that happen. He really asked
Speaker 1: because he had another kid going into that same daycare
Speaker 1: and off the second kid, but he wouldn't have known
Speaker 1: if he didn't ask. Dude, that's a huge discount. It's
Speaker 1: a huge discount of gas. But then look to family
Speaker 1: as well, like our friends or grandparents, you know, relatives.
Speaker 1: You know, what better way than to have actual family,
Speaker 1: like actual blood take care of your kids for you,
Speaker 1: and also consider a nanny. Shore that's a really affordable,
Speaker 1: smart way to approach childcare with neighbors, with folks that
Speaker 1: live close by to you, in particularly because you can
Speaker 1: just take your kids over to their house and drop
Speaker 1: them off when the nanny shows up over there, or
Speaker 1: vice versa. When it comes to K through twelfth grade schooling,
Speaker 1: different families place different priorities on kind of how they
Speaker 1: want their kids to be educated. And private school though,
Speaker 1: is going to be obviously the most expensive choice, and
Speaker 1: this kind can become a contentious topic. So I don't
Speaker 1: I don't want to hang out on your schooling choice
Speaker 1: for long, but just know that, yeah, choosing a private
Speaker 1: school is definitely the most expensive option, and maybe homeschooling
Speaker 1: is a better option. But then, Matt, it kind of
Speaker 1: gets into the factor of can a family afford to
Speaker 1: have one of the parents stay at home and make
Speaker 1: that a reality, So let's kind of get into that too. Yeah, Joe,
Speaker 1: that's a huge consideration, right, Like you might think that
Speaker 1: you can't quit, or like that you can't go part
Speaker 1: time because your family need dr income, and certainly this
Speaker 1: might be true, but make sure that you are factoring
Speaker 1: in taxes that's being taken out of your page check.
Speaker 1: Make sure that you're taking into account childcare costs. If
Speaker 1: there's ways that you can save your family money by
Speaker 1: not working, make sure that you're taking that into account
Speaker 1: as well. I know for a lot of folks it
Speaker 1: might be extremely important to be able to work outside
Speaker 1: of the home. I know folks who the money that
Speaker 1: they're earning from their job was only pretty much breaking
Speaker 1: even with their childcare costs. But for them to have
Speaker 1: some of that part time work, to be able to
Speaker 1: get out of the house and to be a part
Speaker 1: of a bigger organization and something that they really believed in,
Speaker 1: was really important to them. So I don't want to
Speaker 1: discount that at all. I know there are a lot
Speaker 1: of folks who that's a tough decision. Then they've made
Speaker 1: the best choice for them and their family. But what
Speaker 1: I'm saying is, just make sure you're taking everything into
Speaker 1: account when you're weighing the pros and cons of your
Speaker 1: work and childcare. Yeah, and if one of the partners
Speaker 1: does decide to stay at home, your income is of
Speaker 1: course going to go down, But there are also ways
Speaker 1: that a stay at home partner can save your family
Speaker 1: money in a way that to working parents find it
Speaker 1: really difficult to do. So. Looking after that food budget
Speaker 1: becomes a whole lot easier if one spouse stays at home.
Speaker 1: And also that spouse can use their skills and their
Speaker 1: work experience to maybe earn some money on the side
Speaker 1: while working at home, and it could even lead to
Speaker 1: a side hustle that ends up paying off big time
Speaker 1: in the long run. And the next big category that
Speaker 1: we want to cover is transportation, which can take of
Speaker 1: the total expenses. And the reason for this, honestly is
Speaker 1: a lot of times folks are buying a new vehicle
Speaker 1: because they want to make sure they have that safe car.
Speaker 1: The fact is you can still find very safe and
Speaker 1: very affordable cars that will fit your needs that are
Speaker 1: at least five years old, meaning that you get a
Speaker 1: huge break on the cost because you haven't taken that
Speaker 1: hit in depreciation. I think, especially for new parents when
Speaker 1: it comes to making purchases of a stroller or a
Speaker 1: car seat, or or even something as expensive as a car,
Speaker 1: the sort of safety billing becomes super important and almost
Speaker 1: oftentimes too important. Can can I say that? Like where
Speaker 1: where they value the safety rating of something and they're
Speaker 1: willing to pay crazy amounts of money hand over fist
Speaker 1: for for something that gets the highest safety rating, and
Speaker 1: they feel like they need the newest, most up to
Speaker 1: speed safety technology and so like, especially when you're talking
Speaker 1: about a car, you are going to pay so much
Speaker 1: more to have the latest, newest car that has the
Speaker 1: most up to date safety features installed on it versus,
Speaker 1: like you said, buying a car that is five, six,
Speaker 1: seven years old, maybe even that is still well reviewed
Speaker 1: when it comes to safety. We're not talking about buying
Speaker 1: like some hootie. Yeah exactly, Yeah, yeah, You're not talking
Speaker 1: about buying something that is a complete piece of junk.
Speaker 1: In order to save as much money as humanly possible,
Speaker 1: it's just important to note that when it comes to
Speaker 1: buying things because of their safety writing, it's a losing
Speaker 1: battle because who can afford to continually buy the most
Speaker 1: up to date safety stuff. I mean, it's just it's
Speaker 1: just not possible to stay completely up to speed on that.
Speaker 1: And there are perfectly fine, perfectly safe car seats and
Speaker 1: cars that are much more reasonably priced than the latest
Speaker 1: and greatest. Yeah, Ji, so much of what I what
Speaker 1: I'm sensing that you're talking about here is marketing that
Speaker 1: is sort of praying on fear. You hear that, especially
Speaker 1: in so much of advertising on radio and TV, and
Speaker 1: it's like, keep your family safe, and you can only
Speaker 1: do that by buying this product. And I just think
Speaker 1: that's a false economy. Yeah, you gotta be wary anytime
Speaker 1: you hear that, right, But at the same time, I
Speaker 1: totally relate and I totally understand. I remember, as a
Speaker 1: new parent with my very first baby, driving home from
Speaker 1: the hospital on the Connector in downtown Atlanta. By the way,
Speaker 1: the Connector, if you've never driven on it, I think
Speaker 1: it's like fourteen lanes wide and ours or zipping by.
Speaker 1: I've never driven so carefully in my life in the
Speaker 1: far right lane just minding my own business and trying
Speaker 1: to tell everyone like I was this close to put
Speaker 1: my hazard lights on, you know, like I get that
Speaker 1: in particular when you're a new parent. But one week later,
Speaker 1: I'm just driving like I'm really driving, just like passing people. Well,
Speaker 1: now we know how you normally drive. That's the truth.
Speaker 1: But don't let that fear, especially early on, cause you
Speaker 1: to make unwise purchases. And so that's the cost of
Speaker 1: a specific vehicle, but there's just other expenses that this
Speaker 1: report takes into account, just to wear and tear on
Speaker 1: a vehicle, the cost of fuel and insurance, and so
Speaker 1: consider other ways that you can keep your transportation costs down.
Speaker 1: If you have children, try car pulling with the neighbor,
Speaker 1: if you're going to the same daycare or Joel. In
Speaker 1: our case, you and I we do a lot of
Speaker 1: bike pulling, and I think that's a totally valid option
Speaker 1: is to consider a cargo bike, which is going to
Speaker 1: be much more affordable than any car out there. Cargo
Speaker 1: bikes aren't for everyone, but come on, you gotta you
Speaker 1: gotta give it a shot. Yeah, Matt, I feel like
Speaker 1: we mentioned cargo bikes a fair amount on the show.
Speaker 1: Every other episode, So let's keep this one short. Probably yeah,
Speaker 1: but they're the best, all right. So we just tackled
Speaker 1: the big four spending categories when it comes to how
Speaker 1: much kids actually cost. Right out for the break, Let's
Speaker 1: get to some additional questions you have to ask yourself
Speaker 1: about your strategy when it comes to how you spend
Speaker 1: money as a parent. Okay, we just talked about some
Speaker 1: ways that you can say when it comes to the
Speaker 1: big categories and expenses related to your kids, and so
Speaker 1: right now, I want us to sort of ask ourselves
Speaker 1: some bigger questions, right and so one, ask yourself, what
Speaker 1: is it that you value The expenses associated with kids?
Speaker 1: You know, more or less will reflect the kind of
Speaker 1: expenses and spending that you have for yourself as an adult.
Speaker 1: As a grown up, it's natural that the things that
Speaker 1: we value for ourselves that we would value those things
Speaker 1: for our kids as well. So sort of, like we
Speaker 1: mentioned at the beginning of the episode, there are very
Speaker 1: few expenses that just kind of pop out of nowhere
Speaker 1: when we start adding kids to the equation. Most of
Speaker 1: the time they are expenses that you already have in
Speaker 1: your life, but you just see those expenses inflate once
Speaker 1: you start adding kids. Yeah, I think when you reflect
Speaker 1: on your your values when you have a family, Knowing
Speaker 1: your values, knowing your priorities can help direct not only
Speaker 1: how you spend your time with your family, but also
Speaker 1: how you spend your money. And oftentimes, if we don't
Speaker 1: have those things kind of called out, if we haven't
Speaker 1: written them down, if we haven't made our priorities known,
Speaker 1: if we haven't had that discussion with our significant other,
Speaker 1: then it's so much easier for us to justify spending
Speaker 1: in the short term, especially when it's spending for your kid, right, So, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's an important exercise to kind of think
Speaker 1: through what your values are and aligning you're spending with
Speaker 1: those values. Matt, We've talked about that a lot, but
Speaker 1: it's especially true when you have a kid. It's so
Speaker 1: much easier to make those spur of the moment decisions
Speaker 1: to spend money on them. It feels more sacrificial, less
Speaker 1: self serving, but ultimately in the end, it's still not
Speaker 1: good for your for your finances. And so yeah, doing
Speaker 1: the do your due diligence ahead of time and thinking
Speaker 1: through and and asking yourself that question is really important.
Speaker 1: Jel and I can totally relate with that as well. Right,
Speaker 1: who doesn't want their kids to have the very best
Speaker 1: or to have opportunities that they didn't have as a kid. However,
Speaker 1: I think some questions to ask ourselves are like one,
Speaker 1: are you doing this for your kids or are you
Speaker 1: actually doing this for yourself? So are you actually looking
Speaker 1: at the needs of your kids or are you thinking
Speaker 1: about things from the standpoint of how it makes you
Speaker 1: feel as a parent. For instance, I think of secondhand clothes, right,
Speaker 1: they work perfectly fine, but maybe as a parent you
Speaker 1: want your kids to have a new hip clothes. Keep
Speaker 1: that in mind. Are you doing it because there is
Speaker 1: an actual need or because it's how you want to
Speaker 1: be viewed, maybe how you want to be perceived by
Speaker 1: others that you know, Yeah, Matt, we want to be
Speaker 1: generous parents. We want our kids to feel loved and
Speaker 1: cared for and that they're are part of a family
Speaker 1: unit that cares for each other. Well, at least from
Speaker 1: where I'm sitting though, the place I want to be
Speaker 1: most generous with my kids is my time. And if
Speaker 1: I'm spending my money on more articles of clothing, it
Speaker 1: means I have less time because I have to spend
Speaker 1: more that time making money, and if I can trade
Speaker 1: off a little bit of that time that I would
Speaker 1: spend working for dollars, then I can take that time
Speaker 1: and invest it in my kids. And I think they
Speaker 1: are so much better served by some extra time with
Speaker 1: her dad than they are by having more clothes in
Speaker 1: the closet. And based on personal experience, there are lots
Speaker 1: of perfectly fine pieces of clothing that our girls get
Speaker 1: and whether they're new or used, they don't really care.
Speaker 1: They don't want to wear half of them anyway, and
Speaker 1: so that just becomes an issue when you're a parent
Speaker 1: and you're like, man, I just spent like fifteen dollars
Speaker 1: on this shirt or jacket or whatever it is, and
Speaker 1: your kid doesn't want to wear it. That's a pain
Speaker 1: because you feel like you just did something nice for
Speaker 1: them and they're not appreciating it. And so the best
Speaker 1: generosity I think that you can give towards your kid
Speaker 1: is a generosity of yourself, really, your your attention in
Speaker 1: your time chedual. And what I love about that is
Speaker 1: that you're questioning what it is that you're teaching your
Speaker 1: kids through that consumption and through that spending. When we
Speaker 1: overspend on our kids, consider what messages that we're communicating
Speaker 1: to them through that. If you give into every whim
Speaker 1: or every design that they have, you're teaching them that
Speaker 1: their happiness is paramount. That's all that matters, right, or
Speaker 1: at the very least, you're not teaching them the value
Speaker 1: of money. And so as you're spending money on your kids,
Speaker 1: it's worth keeping in mind the messages that you're sending
Speaker 1: to them regarding money. And one more question for us
Speaker 1: to ask ourselves as parents is why don't our values
Speaker 1: match up? If you, as a parent, are spending more
Speaker 1: on your children than you are yourself, it's worth asking
Speaker 1: why are you spending a disproportionate amount on your kids
Speaker 1: for them to be happy and have the best When
Speaker 1: you're happy and content with much less, Hopefully you're spending
Speaker 1: is value driven. And so that's a lesson that is
Speaker 1: worth sharing with your kids. I think it can get
Speaker 1: tougher to Matt as kids grow up. I just remember
Speaker 1: myself looking back at middle school and how I wanted
Speaker 1: the name brands and I think I mentioned in a
Speaker 1: previous episode about wanting the Scottie Pippen shoes and and
Speaker 1: there are certainly, uh, there are a lot of polls
Speaker 1: on kids to want the latest and the greatest, and parents,
Speaker 1: you know what, they want their kids to be happy,
Speaker 1: and they want their kids to be liked at school
Speaker 1: and to to not get made fun of for the
Speaker 1: crappy shoes they're wearing or whatever it is. But as
Speaker 1: a parent, that kind of guiding light of your values
Speaker 1: and matching your values to how you spend money on
Speaker 1: your kids. And you don't always want to say no
Speaker 1: to your kids even when they want something, but reiterating
Speaker 1: your family's values continually as your kids grow up, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be helpful in reminding them that when they do
Speaker 1: ask for something that obviously you're not going to buy them,
Speaker 1: that it's not because you don't love them or that
Speaker 1: you don't want them to be happy, but that you
Speaker 1: have a greater sense of purpose as a family together.
Speaker 1: And so that just takes increased level of communication about
Speaker 1: the things that matter and know in that process that
Speaker 1: you're helping teach your child principles that are gonna last
Speaker 1: a lifetime. That pair of shoes or that cool shirt
Speaker 1: or jacket or whatever it may be is a quick fix,
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be the next cool thing that they need.
Speaker 1: And there's never going to be any level of ultimate
Speaker 1: satisfaction there for your child. But the way that they
Speaker 1: are met in that by you as a parent, in
Speaker 1: a thoughtful response, showing them the values that you hold
Speaker 1: together as a family. It might not be super satisfactory
Speaker 1: in the moment it, but it brings ultimate satisfaction to
Speaker 1: a kid who really wants to believe that their family
Speaker 1: has a greater ideal and purpose. Yeah, Joel, And hopefully
Speaker 1: those values as well translate to savings when it comes
Speaker 1: to spending, right, And this also applies to entertainment as well.
Speaker 1: I know for us, like my family, okay, and now,
Speaker 1: we love to go hiking. We love to spend time
Speaker 1: outside and that's something that we're trying to instill in
Speaker 1: our in our girls that we love spending time outside
Speaker 1: in nature. And guess what, it turns out that hiking
Speaker 1: is free, and so that's a way that we're able
Speaker 1: to directly reduce the cost that we spend on entertainment
Speaker 1: while at the same time getting exercise and fresh air
Speaker 1: and stepping away from technology Like these are all things
Speaker 1: that we value as a family, and it just happens
Speaker 1: that is free. All right. Let's also tackle quickly, Matt,
Speaker 1: the subject of having more kids. So does each additional
Speaker 1: kid that you have double the amount that you spend
Speaker 1: on the cost of raising children? What do you think? No, man,
Speaker 1: you know the answer is no. And so why is
Speaker 1: that something? I don't know what you wanna call? It?
Speaker 1: Seemed called like the diminishing expenses of having additional children.
Speaker 1: And that's because each additional child that you have after
Speaker 1: having that first, they cost less. It's not that your
Speaker 1: total costs actually goes down, but the percentage of money
Speaker 1: that goes towards each additional child is going to be
Speaker 1: less than that first one. Obviously you're gonna pay more
Speaker 1: money overall by having more kids exactly. Yeah, there's another
Speaker 1: mouth to feed, for sure. But you've kind of gotten
Speaker 1: like that kids startup fee out of the way, right,
Speaker 1: Like you said, yeah, reusing your crib or putting more
Speaker 1: kids in one room. It's like, the costs do not
Speaker 1: have to grow exponentially, And in fact, the more kids
Speaker 1: you have, the second, third, and for you fourth kid
Speaker 1: are going to become vastly cheaper. Right, that's right, man.
Speaker 1: According to that report that we've been referencing when you
Speaker 1: have one kid, they've calculated that of your expenses go
Speaker 1: towards that one kid, but with that second child, it
Speaker 1: doesn't double to from fifty two, it only goes to
Speaker 1: thirty nine when you have that second child, and when
Speaker 1: you have that third child, it only goes up to
Speaker 1: forty percent. So again we're not saying that there's a
Speaker 1: savings when it comes to having additional children. It's again
Speaker 1: it's going to cost more money, but each additional child
Speaker 1: will cost less than the one before it. Matt, I
Speaker 1: think overall, taking just kind of a more minimalistic approach
Speaker 1: to parenting is a good way to go, like finding
Speaker 1: those free activities like you mentioned hiking right, And we
Speaker 1: went to a recent birthday party of a friend and
Speaker 1: their twins returning three, and I love what they did.
Speaker 1: They asked people to bring used gifts from their house
Speaker 1: as opposed to buying new gifts for their kids, and
Speaker 1: I thought that was just a great way to do
Speaker 1: it. It It helped our girls actually find ways to give
Speaker 1: away the stuff that they kind of already had that
Speaker 1: they don't play with as much that they thought these
Speaker 1: girls would like. And at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: we weren't having to go out there and buying new stuff.
Speaker 1: And so I think there are lots of ways for
Speaker 1: parents of kids to save money. There are just lots
Speaker 1: of untapped ways that we forget, that we don't take
Speaker 1: advantage of, that we don't even try. And so much
Speaker 1: of it is because of that kind of keeping up
Speaker 1: with the Jones mentality and trying to make sure that
Speaker 1: our kids have like all the things that they not
Speaker 1: only need, but that they want, and that that ultimately
Speaker 1: is kind of an impossible task. All right, maw Let's
Speaker 1: get to our final thoughts on the question of how
Speaker 1: much do kids really cost? And we mentioned the federal
Speaker 1: study that shows that the average cost of raising a
Speaker 1: child is two hundred and thirty three thousand dollars, And
Speaker 1: that's a big sticker shock, and there are a lot
Speaker 1: of people that will spend that much or or even
Speaker 1: more raising each child. But when you take a look
Speaker 1: at the bigger picture of housing, food, childcare, and transportation,
Speaker 1: there are many ways that you can save and do
Speaker 1: things just a little bit differently and drastically reduce the
Speaker 1: cost of raising a kid. Cheduel. That's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to cost a quarter of a million
Speaker 1: dollars to raise your kid from zero to eighteen, but
Speaker 1: it might It all comes down to you and you're spending.
Speaker 1: And really, one of the worst sort of things that
Speaker 1: I think could happen from this is a couple who
Speaker 1: happens to be more frugal. They see this number and
Speaker 1: they say, wow, it actually costs a quarter of a
Speaker 1: million to to raise a kid. I don't know if
Speaker 1: we can handle that. And what they've done, though, is
Speaker 1: they've taken the average American what they spend on their
Speaker 1: kid and they've extrapolated that to their own situation, when
Speaker 1: in reality, it's going to cost them much much us
Speaker 1: to raise a child, and they would have potentially lost
Speaker 1: out on the joys of being a parent. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: having kids obviously isn't for everyone, but if you're this
Speaker 1: deep into the episode, you're probably at least mildly interested
Speaker 1: in it and you want to know how much it's
Speaker 1: gonna cost you. And so just remember what you spend
Speaker 1: is a reflection of your values, and there are ways
Speaker 1: that you can help your kids see what your family
Speaker 1: values throughout their childhood so that when you are able
Speaker 1: to have those discussions with them about what your family
Speaker 1: prioritizes in regards to spending. It's a life giving conversation
Speaker 1: as opposed to one that makes them feel bad for asking.
Speaker 1: All right, Matt, let's go back to the beer real quick.
Speaker 1: We enjoyed a beer called Heavy Hands from Spindele Tap
Speaker 1: Brewery today on the show. What was your take on
Speaker 1: this one? Oh? It was so good. This is another
Speaker 1: delicious beer from Spinell Tap. Joel. To me, this beer
Speaker 1: tasted fresh and alive, you know, well like we've had
Speaker 1: some fresh hot beers before, and where it tastes like
Speaker 1: it's been canned like the day before. And in this case,
Speaker 1: it almost has like that tingly sort of feeling as
Speaker 1: you're drinking it to where the best way, Yeah, the
Speaker 1: best way I can describe it is that it tastes
Speaker 1: live like it it sparks joy in my mouth. Uh.
Speaker 1: And it's a fantastic beer, That's what I'm saying. Marie
Speaker 1: Condo would definitely approve of this beer, I think. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to me, this is like a hoppy juice bomb with
Speaker 1: with some nice kind of like pineapple notes. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. I think this was actually maybe even a
Speaker 1: touch better than the beer that we had a Monday's
Speaker 1: episode from Spindle Tap. But men, they are just from
Speaker 1: those two beers alone, they're putting out just some crushingly
Speaker 1: good I p a s. That's what they specialize in,
Speaker 1: and I kind of love that that's what they stick
Speaker 1: to and they just do a really good job making
Speaker 1: I p a s. Yeah, so huge things to the
Speaker 1: Leo and all of our friends out at spindle Tap
Speaker 1: for donating some beers to the show. Yeah, thanks so
Speaker 1: much everybody for listening to today's episode. We'll have show
Speaker 1: notes up on our website How's the Money dot com
Speaker 1: and reviews. We always love a positive review, so head
Speaker 1: over to Apple Podcasts if you found this episode helpful,
Speaker 1: and while you're there, be sure to subscribe. All right, buddy,
Speaker 1: Until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out.