1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From house to 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: folks not color. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: Caroline and I'm Kristen. Today's episode is a refresh um. 4 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: We're revisiting a podcast we recorded a while ago about 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: black feminists that you should know, and we're calling the 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: episode is Solidarity for White Women because a hashtag recently 7 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 1: emerged on Twitter that actually caused a great debate, a 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: lengthy debate over whether solidarity actually is for white women 9 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: and what that means. Yeah, what the hashtag is referring 10 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: to in general, in a nutshell and the nuttiest of 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,319 Speaker 1: nutshells I can offer, is that feminism hasn't always done 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: the greatest job with acknowledging privilege, which is something that 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: Caroline and I do talk about in that episode on 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: Black Femine Us you should know. So what the hashtag 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:07,880 Speaker 1: solidarity is for white women is essentially all about is 16 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: the fact that feminism hasn't always done the greatest job 17 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: with acknowledging privilege and intersectionality and privilege essentially refers to 18 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: the societal benefits that are conferred upon you on the 19 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: basis of your gender, race, ability, etcetera. So the fact 20 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: that Caroline and I are white feminist sitting here. We're 21 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: talking to you from a position of privilege because we 22 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: are white, and there are lots of social privileges conferred 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 1: upon us for that. And not only are we white, 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: we are sis gender heterosexual women, so there are lots 25 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 1: of other privileges that come along with that because we aren't, 26 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: for instance, trans or black or etcetera. You know, we 27 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: were sitting at the intersection of more of the mainstream 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: that tends to get more attention and tends to have 29 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: a broader and louder platform, right, and then you also 30 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: mentioned intersectionality, which is the interwoven discrimination against people on 31 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: the basis of those things things like gender, race, sexual orientation, 32 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: et cetera. And so the foundation of this hashtag on 33 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: Twitter is the fact that a lot of women's voices 34 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: are not included maybe in a larger feminist discussion, specifically 35 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: in this discussion women of color and to understand a 36 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: little bit more about where solidarity is for white women 37 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: originated NPRS code switch Team offered a pretty tidy summary 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: and again in a nutshell, the hashtag started with the 39 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 1: Twitter self immolation in a way of this guy named 40 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: Hugo Schweizer, whose name might be familiar to people who 41 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 1: listen to the podcast because cited him before, and if 42 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: you read Jezebel, you've probably seen his articles over there. 43 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: He's also written for The Atlantic and a number of 44 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: other publications because he was one of the most prominent 45 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: voices among male feminists. And long story short, though, what 46 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: a lot of people weren't aware of about Hugo Schweitzer 47 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: is that he had developed a reputation for lashing out 48 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 1: against women of color feminists, and meanwhile, he was contributing 49 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: to these large feminist sites like Jezebel, which are largely 50 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 1: run by white women. And when his meltdown happened and 51 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: he essentially copped to his racist tendencies which had been 52 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: brushed aside up until then, solidarity is for white women 53 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: happened when finally, blogger Mickey Kendall started the hashtag saying, Wow, 54 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: are we just now paying attention to what this guy 55 00:03:57,840 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: has been doing? And I feel like we need to 56 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: offer brief mea culpa for citing his work in podcasts 57 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I I can say personally, I was 58 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: not aware of the extent of this slimy stuff in 59 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: its background. Yeah, and I don't think that a lot 60 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: of people were, which was why the hashtag really took off, 61 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: because it was such uh an perfect example of how 62 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: women of colors experiences and voices were not being heard. Right. 63 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: And so blogger Mickey Kendall is the person who started 64 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: the hashtag, and she wrote in a column and The 65 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: Guardian admittedly this isn't a new problem. White feminism has 66 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: argued that it should trump race since its inception, and 67 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: she says that that rhetoric not only erases the experiences 68 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: of women of color, but also alienates many from a 69 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: movement that claims to want equality for all. And so 70 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: the hashtag, in its essence is a rallying cry for 71 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: greater visibility and broader platforms for non white feminist voices 72 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: to be heard. And we could sit here and spend 73 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: the next hour reading all of the tweets to the 74 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: hashtag generated um. But we're not going to do that, um, 75 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: because you could go online. There's a whole storify of 76 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these tweets to give you a sense 77 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: of what these women meant by solidarities for white women 78 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: and all of the the examples that they offered, and 79 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: we wanted to instead take this opportunity to talk about 80 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: the hashtag and also use it to tee up a 81 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: rerun of our episodes Six Black Feminist Pioneers. You should 82 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: know that we aired earlier this year because we did 83 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: discuss some of the issues raised in this in terms 84 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: of things like privilege and also trying to highlight, uh 85 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: the failings of second wave feminism in terms of women 86 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 1: of color, and also trying to shed some light on 87 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: some women that you should know that aren't talked about 88 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: as often as say, someone like Gloria Steinham or Betty 89 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 1: for Dan and so I hope this isn't considered a 90 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: form of tokenism on our part, but genuine and sincere 91 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: acknowledgement that we know we're sitting here as two white feminists, 92 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: but we also know we can do a better job 93 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: of highlighting the experiences of women of color and that 94 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 1: this issue of race and feminism started long before Twitter 95 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 1: came around, as is highlighted in the stories of these 96 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: six Black Feminist Pioneers that you should know. So with that, 97 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: let's revisit that episode, Caroline before we start talking about um, 98 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: these women, these incredible women. You know, what we gotta 99 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: to talk about first, what ourselves obviously obviously what I 100 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: mean is, Okay, we need to address briefly the issue 101 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: of privilege, because we're gonna be talking about black women 102 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: and feminism and how feminism relates to to black women, 103 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:13,679 Speaker 1: and as two women of Caucasian descent with very fair 104 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: skin that is easily sunburned, Um, we should talk about 105 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: privilege first, right, yeah, yeah, and basically recognizing that privilege 106 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: is the key to having a good discussion about feminism 107 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: and about black feminism in particular, which is what we'll 108 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: be focusing on in this episode, because it was Bell Hooks, 109 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: the feminist writer with the lower case name we'll talk 110 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: about later in this episode, who said that feminism ignores 111 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: non white and poor white women. Books like the Feminine 112 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: Mystique overlooked an entire portion of the population. So it's 113 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: important to admit that we are, as young white women Kristen, 114 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: as the Feminist Wire would put it in maywelve, we 115 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: have been afforded certain unearned privileges on the basis of 116 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: one or more parts of our identity, and that part 117 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: of our identity would be uh, you know, the being 118 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,679 Speaker 1: white essentially, and and speaking more to the connection between 119 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: like the feminalistique and bettyfor Dan and second wave feminism. Um, 120 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: there was a huge criticism, and rightfully so, about how 121 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: it was largely a movement initially, that that really did 122 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: speak directly to the needs of middle and upper middle 123 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: class white women. UM. And to get more of a 124 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: sense of that, let's go back again to Belle Hooks, 125 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: she writes. For Dan's famous phrase the problem that has 126 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: no name, that's from the femininistique, often quoted to describe 127 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: the condition of women in this society, actually referred to 128 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: the plight of a select group of college educated, middle 129 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 1: and upper class married white women house vibes, board with leisure, 130 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 1: with home with children, with buying products, who wanted more 131 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: out of life. And for black women listening to that 132 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: at the time and even today, UM, they were like, 133 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: well that you were incredibly privileged to be wanting to 134 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: fight this fight, because you know, you're talking about, oh, well, 135 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: you know, we want to get outside of the home. 136 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 1: And these these other women who were not afforded luxuries 137 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: like going to college and maybe even being able to 138 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: stay um in the home, had been working outside of 139 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,840 Speaker 1: the home for a long time. And this also reminded 140 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: me of our domestic service podcasts UM and when we 141 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: were researching for that, UH, we found some some commentary 142 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,760 Speaker 1: on how the National Organization for Women at the time 143 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: was in favor of extaying the Fair Labor Standards Act 144 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,040 Speaker 1: two household workers in order to make that field more 145 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: attractive to lower class women, since the those middle and 146 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 1: upper class college educated women who we're organizing with now 147 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: we're going to be needing to leave the home, so 148 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: they would need someone else to come in and take 149 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: care of it. So we're not saying that second way 150 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: feminism is bad, it just overlooked a lot, right, and 151 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: Hooks wrote that, you know, the concerns of housewives of 152 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: whatever class we're worth being considered, but she said they 153 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: were not the pressing political concerns of masses of women. 154 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: And so then you get into black feminism, which is 155 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: distinct from uh like feminists second way feminism, I guess 156 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: you would say, and intentionally so, right, Black feminism was 157 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: something that existed outside of both regular mainstream feminism and 158 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: the black liberation movement. A lot of activists at this 159 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: time point out, like we've already talked about that the 160 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: middle class white housewife concerns were not the same as 161 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: those of a lot of either poor white people or 162 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: people of color, but neither were the concerns of the 163 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: Black liberation movement entirely covering those of black feminists, because 164 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: a lot of people point out the Black liberation movement 165 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 1: had a lot to do with men's Black men's rights 166 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: and their manhood and there, you know, basically extending their 167 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: rights in society. Yeah, I I forget which feminist scholar 168 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: was writing about this, but she she pointed out that 169 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: for black women at the time who were engaged in 170 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 1: the Black liberation movement, and that encompasses several movements such 171 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: as civil rights movement, black nationalism, black panthers, a student 172 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: non violent Coordinating Committee UM. When they would be in conversations, 173 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: when the word men would be dropped, it would be 174 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: in reference to black men. When the word feminism would 175 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: be dropped, it would be inherently in reference to white women. 176 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: And so they were saying, well, where are we? And 177 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: so black feminism was born out of this UM. We 178 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 1: can will also bring up womanism later in the podcast, 179 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: which is a word coined by Alice Walker to delineate 180 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 1: a more intersectional um feminism from the from the main stream, 181 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: to encompass everybody, not just not just white women. Essentially, yeah, 182 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: bell Hooks wrote. Going back to Bell Hooks, Who Is Wonderful? 183 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 1: She wrote that black women basically denied a part of themselves. 184 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: This is coming from her book Ain't I a Woman? 185 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: She says contemporary Black women could not join together to 186 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: fight for women's rights because we did not see quote 187 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: womanhood as an important aspect of our identity. Racist sex. 188 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: With socialization, it conditioned us to do value our femaleness 189 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: and to regard race is the only relevant label of identification. 190 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: So there's this push to see not just your race 191 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: but also your gender and how those two things combine 192 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: to shape both who you are and how the outside 193 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: world views you. And considering, um, that the way that 194 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: those kind of things have been overshadowed by, uh, the 195 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: the culture that they were living in and society for 196 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: a long time. Um, why don't we talk about these 197 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,239 Speaker 1: six women who were like, you know what, I am 198 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: really not going to have this. I don't care. I 199 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: have a voice, I have a mind, and I'm gonna 200 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: speak it and I'm going to pave the way for 201 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: some incredible change. Yeah. One of those women was Maria Stewart. 202 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: She lived from eighteen o three to eighteen seventy nine. 203 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 1: This is coming from a PBS article about her. She 204 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: was actually born free in Boston, orphaned at the age 205 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: of five, and subsequently hired out as a domestic worker. 206 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: She was largely self taught. She she really worked hard 207 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: during her time as a domestic worker to educate herself. 208 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: And she ended up meeting David Walker, who was the 209 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: author of the Anti Slavery Treatise and Appeal to the 210 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Colored People of the World. And after his death Walker's death, 211 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: she ended up writing articles for the abolitionist paper The Liberator, 212 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: publishing anti slavery tracks and becoming one of the first, 213 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: if not the first. There is a question about who 214 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,320 Speaker 1: was the first African American woman to speak in public, 215 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: and not only in public Kristen in front of a 216 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: promiscuous audience of both men and women. Now by promiscuous, 217 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: we mean that's an old school term for both men 218 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: and women gender. How scandalous. Yeah, And and some scholars 219 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: say that she represents the first public representation of black 220 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: feminism because a lot of her speeches that she gave well, 221 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: and I say a lot of her speeches she only 222 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: spoke publicly for I want to say, like four years, um. 223 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: But during that time a lot of her stuff focused 224 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: more on pro black nationalism. But she was also very 225 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: insistent not just an extending education to black children, but 226 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: specifically two girls and talking about how women need education 227 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 1: just as much as those boys do. And um she 228 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: published this was also very here for a woman at 229 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: the time, much less um, an African American woman at 230 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 1: the time. She published her writings in a book called 231 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: The Meditations from the Pen of Mrs Maria W. Stewart. 232 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: So yeah, in addition to this writing and her you know, 233 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: emphasis on morality, religion, and education, she was actually a 234 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: public school teacher in New York and founded schools in 235 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: Baltimore and Washington, d C. Yeah, and her speeches and 236 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: essays were part of a growing abolitionist movement and a 237 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: stimulus for the women's rights movement. And um, and that's 238 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: really important, like to to talk about how uh there 239 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: she bridged not only abolition but also women's rights, because um, 240 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: that was pretty rare at the time as well. If 241 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: we go back to a quote from sojourn or truth. 242 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: For instance, she once said, there's a great stare about 243 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: colored men getting their rights, but not a word about 244 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: colored women. And if colored men are to get their 245 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: rights and non colored women, there's you see, the colored 246 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: men will be masters over the women and it will 247 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: be just as bad as it was before. And what 248 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: Marie Stewart did was kind of a hearken to those 249 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: those words from Sogourner truth and advocate for women to 250 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: educate themselves and rise up as well. Now, you mentioned, 251 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: Caroline that Stewart was a public school teacher and founded 252 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: schools in Baltimore in d C. And that is an 253 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: excellent transition to our next inspiring woman, Daisy Bates, because 254 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: she led the effort to integrate schools public schools in Arkansas. Yeah, 255 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: she and her husband actually have a great story. They 256 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: worked very closely together to in segregation and improve education 257 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: for black students. She was actually the president of the 258 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: Arkansas in Double A CP and her husband was its 259 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: regional director and they went on to run a newspaper together. 260 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: He was the publisher of the Arkansas State Press, which 261 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: was the largest black newspaper in the state, and she 262 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: was his star wars porter and you know, of course, 263 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 1: like when he was out of town, she filled in 264 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: as publisher and editor and all this stuff. So they 265 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: were actually very dynamic couple. So Daisy and the in 266 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: double A c P. Took the Little Rock school Board 267 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: to task after the Supreme Courts nineteen four call to 268 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 1: in segregation, and she helped recruit those nine bright kids 269 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: who would defy segregationists. Yeah, nineteen fifty four, that Brown 270 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: versus Topeka Board of Education decision from the Supreme Court 271 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: struck down the previous separate but equal ruling, and Dacy 272 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: Bates said, hey, you know what, I guess what it's 273 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 1: time Little Rock for for us to follow suit and 274 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: desegregate as well. Of course, this was not greeted with 275 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: open arms by either the school board or really any 276 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:54,119 Speaker 1: of the white people in Little Rock. It it seems 277 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: like and her health became the headquarters for the plan 278 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 1: and execution of this now that it's also became a 279 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: target for for people who are looking to do violence 280 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: against those wishing to desegregate. Um and speaking to Mpr 281 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: Earnest Green, who was one of the Little Rock nine 282 00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: of that group of students who integrated Central High School, said, 283 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Daisy Bates was a poster child of black resistance. She 284 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,920 Speaker 1: was a quarterback of the coach and we were the players. Yeah. 285 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: And after this this whole event, Uh, an advertiser boycott 286 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: of the couple's paper forced it to shut down in 287 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty nine, But she was not down and out. 288 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: In four she brought the paper back in that same 289 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: year ended up receiving an honorary Doctor of Law's degree 290 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: from University of Arkansas at Fayetteville. Yeah, and in honor 291 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: of the work that Daisy Bates did, because she became 292 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 1: like the national spokesperson for I mean not just something 293 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: that was happening in Little Rock, but it was symbolic 294 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:56,120 Speaker 1: for the civil rights movement that was kicking off all 295 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: over the nation. And for that work, she became the 296 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: first and only still African American July in state of 297 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the Arkansas capital when she died in and one of 298 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 1: Daisy Bates's contemporaries was a lawyer and activist by the 299 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: name of Flow Kennedy. Uh. This is coming from the 300 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: New York Times, who wrote an incredible obituary about Kennedy, 301 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: pointing out that she was very recognizable in a cowboy 302 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: hat and pink sunglasses, often with her middle finger in 303 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: the air. And it was her flamboyant attire that drew 304 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: attention to the very powerful words and deeds that she 305 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: did a surrounding civil rights and feminism. Yeah, I feel 306 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 1: like Flow Kennedy was kind of an embodiment of the 307 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: second wave feminism going on in Um the late sixties. 308 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: She would tour around actually with Glorious stein Um and 309 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: talking about feminism, and a lot of times, as a 310 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: Steimond now tells, there would be men in the audience 311 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: who would at some point stand up and say are 312 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: you guys, are you two lesbians or what? And Flow 313 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: Kennedy would look at them and say, well why, I mean, 314 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: are you the my alternative? And then everyone be like, 315 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: oh this snap, But yeah, she yah. She has a 316 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: really interesting law school story. She was one of the 317 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: first black women to graduate from Columbia Law School and 318 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: was admitted to the school after threatening a discrimination suit. 319 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: So when she got in she was one of eight 320 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: women in the class and the only black person. And 321 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: after she graduated in nineteen fifty one, she worked for 322 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: a Manhattan law firm before opening her own law office 323 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty four. Unfortunately, she actually had to take 324 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: a job at Bloomingdale's at one point to pay the 325 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,480 Speaker 1: rent because she was struggling in her law practice. Yeah, 326 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: and practicing law initially soured Flow Kennedy because what she 327 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: did at first was the first pacase she got. At least, 328 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: we're representing these states of Billy Holliday and Charlie Parker 329 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: to recover money owed to them from record companies. And 330 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: she says that handling those cases quote taught me more 331 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: than I was really ready for about government and business 332 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: delinquency and the hostility and helplessness of the courts. And 333 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: that energized Flow Kennedy to then move more, far more 334 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: into straight up activism. For instance, in nineteen sixty six 335 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: she set up the organization Media Workshop to fight racism 336 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: and journalism and advertising. And in the legal cases that 337 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: she took on from there were almost always very overtly political. Yeah. 338 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty eight, she actually sued the Roman Catholic 339 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: Church for what she viewed as interference with abortion. In 340 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, there are two big cases. The first, 341 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: she organized a group of feminist lawyers to challenge the 342 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 1: constitutionality of New York's abortion law and also that year 343 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: helped represent and helped get acquitted twenty one Black panthers 344 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: on trial for conspiracy to commit bombings. And on top 345 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: of that, because she wasn't busy or anything like that, 346 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: she was a founding member of the Nation Organization for Women. 347 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: She didn't really stay highly involved with now that long 348 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 1: because she always wanted to keep starting these little, these 349 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: little fires everywhere. And I say that in in a 350 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: positive way. For instance, in nineteen nineteen seventy one, she 351 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: founded the Feminist Party, the political party which nominated Representative 352 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: Surely Chisholm for president. And uh. One of her one 353 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: of her colorful, many colorful quotes that she left behind 354 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,600 Speaker 1: that the New York Times quoted in their obituary ever, 355 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 1: was quote, I'm just a loudmouth, middle aged colored lady 356 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: with a few spine and three feet of intestines missing, 357 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of people think I'm crazy. Maybe you 358 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: do too, But I never stopped to wonder why I'm 359 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: not like a lot of other people. The mystery to 360 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: me is why more people aren't like me. Yeah. Well, 361 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 1: another colorful character that I know we've talked about on 362 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 1: the podcast before is Audrey Lord, who was a poet 363 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,480 Speaker 1: who died in nineteen after a long battle with cancer, 364 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of her work was actually in inspired 365 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: by that battle. But she referred to herself as a 366 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: black feminist lesbian mother poet. You forgot warrior? Oh, I 367 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: can't forge a warrior black feminist, lesbian mother warrior poet. Yeah, 368 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,360 Speaker 1: that that was a bad omission. I mean talk about 369 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: a title. Can you fit all of that on a 370 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: business card? Audrey Lord was one of the earlier spokespeople 371 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: in a way that's not the correct term, but um, 372 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: her writing really highlighted what we would now come to 373 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: call intersectionality. In other words, she celebrated differences because her 374 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: passion was for the liberation of oppressed people's and organizing 375 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: across differences in race, gender, sexual orientation, class, age, and ability, 376 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: and she found marginalization in categories like lesbian or black women. 377 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: Lord actually, you know, knew she was different from an 378 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: early age and was very sensitive. She actually communicated through poetry, 379 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: and she says that if she didn't, you know, have 380 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: a poem memorized to basically summarize how she felt, she 381 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: would start making her own. So around twelve or three team. 382 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: She started writing poetry, which launched her into a whole 383 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,800 Speaker 1: career in academia, and interestingly, her first poem was accepted 384 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,320 Speaker 1: into seventeen magazine. She actually saw art as a way 385 00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:21,120 Speaker 1: to protest destructive social patterns. So from her position as 386 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:25,479 Speaker 1: a popular poet, she really kind of took the hammer 387 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: to people who were, you know, racist, homophobic, just basically 388 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: afraid of differences in society. She said that my sexuality 389 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 1: is part and parcel of who I am, and my 390 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 1: poetry comes from the intersection of me and my world. 391 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: Jesse Helms, who's who was a white conservative senator. Jesse 392 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: helms objection to my work is not about obscenity or 393 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: even about sex. It is about revolution and change. Helms 394 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: represents white patriarchal power, and he knows that my writing 395 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,360 Speaker 1: is aimed at his destruction and the destruction of every 396 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: single thing he stands for. Yeah, I feel like Audrey 397 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: Lord one of the bravest women. She clearly was not 398 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: not afraid to speak her mind. And speaking of her sexuality, 399 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: she did initially marry attorney Edwin Rawlins, and they had 400 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: two kids together, and then they got divorced, and then 401 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: she got together with who would become her twenty year partner, 402 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 1: Francis Clayton, and a lot of her poetry does focus 403 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: on um sexuality. She spoke very openly about um being 404 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: a lesbian, but also her concept of being a lesbian, 405 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,439 Speaker 1: which did not just include you know, women who openly 406 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: identified with being attracted to other women, but really all 407 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: women in general. UM. But I feel like all of 408 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: that roots though back to her passion for intersectionality. UM. 409 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: Here's a quote from her nine eight three book, There 410 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: Is No Hierarchy of Oppressions. She writes, I cannot afford 411 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: the luxury fighting one form of oppression only. I cannot 412 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: afford to believe that freedom from into lawrence is the 413 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: right of only one particular group. And I cannot afford 414 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: to choose between the fronts upon me which I must 415 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: battle these forces of discrimination wherever they appear to destroy me. 416 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,280 Speaker 1: And when they appear to destroy me, it will not 417 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 1: be long before they appear to destroy you. And I 418 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know about you, Caroline, but I 419 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: feel like intersectionality is something that only just now. I 420 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: mean that she was writing that night three It's two 421 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, and I feel like it's only something that 422 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: even now is starting to kind of breakthrough to more 423 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: mainstream conversations of taking all of these things into account, 424 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: all the different types of discrimination that exists. So she 425 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: was definitely a pioneer in that way of of of 426 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: seeing the multi dimensional um forms of oppression. And she 427 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: also received a number of accolades for her poetry. She 428 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: was named New York State Poet Laureate actually in nine 429 00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: and she was still a poet Lauria when she died 430 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: from cancer the following year in nineteen. Well, one woman 431 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: that we've already mentioned earlier who is more of a 432 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: contemporary writer is Bell Hooks, who was born Gloria Watkins. 433 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,639 Speaker 1: She actually adopted her pseudonym not only to honor her 434 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: grandmother whose name she took, and her mother, but she 435 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,679 Speaker 1: felt that it established a separate voice from that of 436 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: Gloria Watkins and put the focus on her writing. That's 437 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: she felt the lower casing her name put more of 438 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,480 Speaker 1: the focus on her writing. She said that she was 439 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: a quote suicidal depressed team when she began to resist 440 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: male domination, to rebel against patriarchal thinking, and to oppose 441 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: the strongest patriarchal voice in my life, my mother's voice. 442 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: She asked her readers to imagine quote imagine living in 443 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: a world where there is no domination, where females and 444 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: males are not alike or even always equal, but where 445 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: a vision of mutuality is the ethos shaping our interaction. 446 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 1: She really looked forward to a day that feminism would 447 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: let men and women be quote fully self actualized in 448 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: order to establish a real community. Yeah, and a lot 449 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: of um Hooks's scholarship has not only looked into feminism, 450 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: but also applying that um I gendered scholarship to looking 451 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: at pop culture and how UM men and women and 452 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 1: how race and ability and a sexual orientation all of 453 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: that are portrayed and consumed by the masses. She also 454 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,719 Speaker 1: has very much UM anti materialism. There was a New 455 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: York Times article that I found which focused really just 456 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: on the sparseness of her apartment. She was living in 457 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: New York at the time. Right now, she is a 458 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: Distinguished Professor in Residence and Appalachian Studies at Barria College 459 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 1: in Kentucky. And like one of the reasons why people 460 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: I love Bell Hooks, she's She's often cited UM in 461 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: any kind of like feminist one oh one article you 462 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: might read is because, for instance, from her feminist theory 463 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: from Margin to Center. Uh, this little nugget she writes, 464 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: a feminism is a struggle to in sexist oppression. Its 465 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: aim is not to benefit solely any specific group of women, 466 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: any particular race or class of women. It does not 467 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: privilege women over men. It has the power to transform 468 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: meaningfully all of our lives. And she also ties in 469 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: a lot of intersectionality and and it is very insistent 470 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: on us knowing what we're talking about when we're talking 471 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: about feminism. Um. And some critics have said that Bell 472 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: Hooks is too political. Other ads have said that she's 473 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 1: not radical enough. And and maybe because of the notoriety 474 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: that she's gotten and the backlash as well, she has 475 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: kind of remained out of the public I a lot. Actually, 476 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: the most recent thing that I read written by Bell 477 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: Hooks was a review of Vistas the Southern Wild and 478 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: spoiler alert. She did not like it. We also heard 479 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: something recently from the sixth woman on our list, Alice Walker. 480 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: She wrote the poem Democratic Womanism for the election, talking 481 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: about regime change, but not the type of regime change 482 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: that we would think of when a presidential election is 483 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: taking place, she wrote, where women rise to take their 484 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 1: place on mass at the helm of the Earth's frail 485 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: and failing ship. She says in the poem, I am 486 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: thinking of democratic and perhaps socialist womanism. For who else 487 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: knows so deeply how to share but mothers and grandmother's, 488 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: big sisters and aunts to love and adore, both female 489 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: and male, not to mention those in between. So Alice Walker, 490 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: for those who don't know her, is an author, poet, 491 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 1: and activist, and she happens to be the first African 492 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: American woman to win a Pulitzer Prize in fiction, and 493 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: that was in nineteen eighty three for the color Purple. 494 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: And she was the one, as we mentioned at the 495 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: top of the podcast, who coined the term woman is 496 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,240 Speaker 1: in womanism in nineteen eighty three, and she derived it 497 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: from the word woman ish, which is the opposite of 498 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 1: girl ish. UM. And she defines it as a black 499 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: feminist or feminist of color from the Black folk expression 500 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 1: of mothers, you're acting a woman ish, usually referring to outrageous, audacious, courageous, 501 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: or willful behavior. UM. And it's interesting too that Um. 502 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,920 Speaker 1: Rebecca Walker, her daughter who they've had kind of a 503 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: publicly uh not hostile, but distant relationship. But her daughter 504 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: Rebecca coined the term third wave feminist, and so, my 505 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 1: goodness runs in the family, it does. She also defined 506 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: womanist as a woman who loves women, whether sexually or 507 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: non sexually, appreciates and prefers women's culture, emotional flexibility, and strength, 508 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: and loves herself quote unquote regardless. And she said the 509 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: womanist is too feminist as purple is slavender. So I 510 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: guess she thought it was a more all encompassing, a 511 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: stronger term. It seems like. Well, so we hope you 512 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,479 Speaker 1: enjoyed revisiting that episode, and we hope that it um 513 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,320 Speaker 1: added to the conversation, and we would love to hear 514 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: from you. But before we get to any letters, there 515 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: are some women of color feminists that we wanted to acknowledge. Yes, 516 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: since we highlighted mostly historical figures, we did want to 517 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: give a shout out to a number of women who 518 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: are very active on Twitter and also on blogs as well, 519 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: such as Roxanne Gay who writes a lot for Salon. 520 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: You can follow her at Our Gay and also LaToya Peterson, 521 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: whose blog Racial Isious is a must read. Yeah, we 522 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 1: also have Anna Holmes who's the founder of Jezebel, and 523 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: you can find her on Twitter at Anna Holmes. And 524 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: we also have Adrian Kay and you can find her 525 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: at native a Props. And then finally Lindsay You who 526 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: writes at Filthy Freedom dot com and you can follow 527 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: her as well at Lindsay You. And I realize these 528 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: are just five women. I know that there are so 529 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: many more, but we don't have time to just read 530 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: a roster of them, so we highly encourage you to 531 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: send us your suggestions. Let's share names, Let's help highlight 532 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,800 Speaker 1: and have more voices heard in this conversation about women 533 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: and feminism and all of our diverse intersectional experiences. Mom 534 00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: Stuff at discovery dot com is where you can send 535 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: your emails, hit us up on Facebook, and speaking of Twitter, 536 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: you can follow us at Mom's Stuff podcast. And we 537 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: got a couple of letters to share before we sign off. 538 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: Jack Threads has quickly become the online shopping destination for dudes. 539 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: And here's why. Everything on the site is up to 540 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 1: eight percent off. That's right, and Jack Threads serves up 541 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: killer contemporary and street apparel, accessories and gadgets. From brands 542 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 1: like Converse, Penguin, and New Era. So you should head 543 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: over to Jack threads dot com slid hash mom to 544 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: skip that membership wait list and get instant access to 545 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 1: all those deals. And one more time, that's Jack threads 546 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: dot com slash mom. And now back to our letters. 547 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,239 Speaker 1: So we've got a couple of letters here to share 548 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: from our episode on open relationships. We've gotten a lot 549 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,319 Speaker 1: of great feedback on that one, I gotta say. And 550 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: this one is from Angela who was in a polyamorous 551 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: relationship and wanted to write about some of the things 552 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,479 Speaker 1: that she has learned, and she also brought up this. 553 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: I did want to mention that it has annoyed me 554 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: frequently when listening to various podcasts on the subject that 555 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,720 Speaker 1: people point out jealousy only in reference to open relationships 556 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 1: and polyamory. However, relationships around me are falling apart constantly 557 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: because of jealousy, and usually it's monogamous relationships that do. 558 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: You're going to meet jealousy in every relationship. It may 559 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: prevent you from making friends, going to dinner with coworkers, 560 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: even for playing a video game if the other person 561 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: is jealous that they aren't able to play it or 562 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: as jealous of your attention. Choosing to share is one 563 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: way of avoiding jealousy. Nowadays, I avoid jealousy and boredom 564 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: by being in a polly fidelity relationship. My boyfriend and 565 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: I only will have sex with someone else if we 566 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,959 Speaker 1: ask first, and so I never ever have to wonder 567 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 1: if he's quote unquote cheated, because why what do you 568 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,760 Speaker 1: want to? And I never feel trapped because I always 569 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: have the option of finding a second partner myself. So 570 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,720 Speaker 1: how many outside partners have we been with collectively? Zero? 571 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: I hope you guys are having an awesome week and 572 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: keep up the fantastic work. And I have a letter 573 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 1: here from Stella, who also mentions jealousy in open relationships. 574 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: She says, when I first started dating my boyfriend, I 575 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: was also dating another guy at the same time. Our 576 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: first dates were within the same week. I like them 577 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: both very much for different reasons, and I didn't want 578 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: to have to choose one of them. Pitch the idea 579 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: of having a polyamorous relationship in which I was the 580 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: center of the love triangle. The other guy wasn't sure 581 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: how comfortable he was, but he decided that I was 582 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: worth it. The first few months of the relationships were fantastic. 583 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: We split our time well and I treated them equally. Eventually, however, 584 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,919 Speaker 1: the guy who proposed the Polly idea in the first 585 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: place started to become jealous and we had to end 586 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: the relationship because he couldn't handle not being number one. 587 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 1: And now my boyfriend of three years and I are 588 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:25,160 Speaker 1: going incredibly strong. We still identify as open, but pick 589 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,440 Speaker 1: and choose our partners. I've been casually dating a lovely 590 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 1: woman for a year. However, my boyfriend has yet to 591 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,719 Speaker 1: find a person that he'd like to date who was 592 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: also into Polly. So thank you, Stella, and thanks to 593 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: everybody who has written in mom Stuff. Discovery dot com 594 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: is already can send your emails, can follow us on 595 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, find us on Facebook, and 596 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 1: we're on Tumbler as well. Stuff Mom Never Told You 597 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com, and if you'd like to see us, 598 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: we're on Instagram at stuff I'm Never told You. And finally, 599 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: don't forget to check out our YouTube channel as to 600 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash stuff Mom Never Told You, and 601 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe or more on this and thousands 602 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works? Dot com