Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Eating While Broke.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Colleen Witt, and today we have very
Speaker 1: special guests Charlemagne the God in the building.
Speaker 2: Y'ao, Queen wit, what's happening?
Speaker 3: What's going on? How do you feel?
Speaker 1: Charlemagne the God also known as hip Hop's Howard Starn really,
Speaker 1: best selling author of books Black Privilege, Shook One, and
Speaker 1: most recently, Get Honest or Die Lion Why Small Talk Sucks.
Speaker 1: In addition to all these accolades, you have invested close
Speaker 1: to thirty years in the radio broadcasting industry. You're the
Speaker 1: founder of the Black Effect podcast network.
Speaker 3: Where you can listen to Eating While Broke, where you.
Speaker 1: Can which you yourself is literally the only reason why
Speaker 1: we were able to do this interview. In addition to
Speaker 1: all that, you are the creative of Black Privilege Publishing.
Speaker 1: I read this quote. I was hanging out in my
Speaker 1: dad's apartment. He had this quote on the wall and
Speaker 1: I took it. And the whole irony in this quote
Speaker 1: is that he actually took it from me. But I
Speaker 1: read this quote and I thought of you. Excellence is
Speaker 1: never an accident. It is always a result of high intention,
Speaker 1: sincere effort, intelligent direction, skillful execution, and the vision to
Speaker 1: see obstacles as opportunities. Now I thought of you because
Speaker 1: just reading all your books, I was like, personally and professionally,
Speaker 1: it seems like that has been your journey. Absolutely, absolutely,
Speaker 1: So I gotta ask, what is the broke dish that
Speaker 1: you would have had us eating in my studio?
Speaker 2: If I really don't know. I was racking my brain
Speaker 2: when they kept telling me, and I watched the show
Speaker 2: and I'm like, they kept you know, you got to
Speaker 2: have a broke dish, and I'm like, I didn't really
Speaker 2: have a broke dish coming up. And the reason I
Speaker 2: say that is because even though we were poor, I
Speaker 2: didn't realize we were poor until I got older, because
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in Monks Corner, South Carolina,
Speaker 2: and you know, when you grow up in a ruined
Speaker 2: area like that, like everybody is pretty much doing the same, Like,
Speaker 2: you know, you might have a couple of individuals who
Speaker 2: got a house that's better than yours, but for the
Speaker 2: most part, people were growing up in double wide trailers
Speaker 2: and we're growing up in you know, like small subvern
Speaker 2: homes like my grandma used to have. But the one
Speaker 2: thing that we always had was food in funny food,
Speaker 2: funny and family.
Speaker 3: Literally you know.
Speaker 2: So it's like the things that people would call broke
Speaker 2: meals or the things that I still love now.
Speaker 3: Like I love grits and eggs.
Speaker 2: You give me some scrambled eggs with some grits and butter,
Speaker 2: I'm good. Like my grandma used to make this. She
Speaker 2: used to make cheese toasts. So she would just take
Speaker 2: the toast. My mouth started water and thinking about it.
Speaker 2: She would just take the toast and like you know,
Speaker 2: put the butter on the center and then put a
Speaker 2: slice of cheese and literally warm that up.
Speaker 3: And I would drink that with a cup of tea.
Speaker 2: And now that I think about it, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was like the meals that they were giving us
Speaker 2: because that's what they could afford to give us, like
Speaker 2: even you know, but it was amazing that it still
Speaker 2: tasted good. Like it don't make me feel like something.
Speaker 2: It's something that I still enjoy now. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: so to me, that's not It might be a broke dish,
Speaker 2: but I still love it.
Speaker 1: I love hearing guests say that they were broke but
Speaker 1: they didn't realize they were broke. But in those types
Speaker 1: of cities, what I did notice is that, yeah, everyone
Speaker 1: looked the same. But what differentiated kids from knowing whether
Speaker 1: they were broke was at least I don't know, we're
Speaker 1: close in age, but it was the like kicks, like
Speaker 1: were you going to school with the cool kicks or something?
Speaker 1: So or nah?
Speaker 2: I had none of those. My dad. I remember, I
Speaker 2: wanted they used to be these boots called high tech boots,
Speaker 2: and my dad they saw the bootleg version that paid us,
Speaker 2: and I wanted them so bad that I'm like, y'all
Speaker 2: get the bootleg version that pay less.
Speaker 1: And they didn't. The kids didn't noticing me.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I woke up one morning and my dad
Speaker 2: had the high tech sitting by my bed. I was like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? So I actually had the
Speaker 2: real you know, all black high texts, you know, So
Speaker 2: I didn't have like the Jordans and all of that
Speaker 2: stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I don't I don't even what kind of sneakers did
Speaker 3: I have back then.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying in that environment, that wasn't the thing
Speaker 1: that differentiated a poor kid from it because in those environments,
Speaker 1: everyone's technically in the same economic structure. But I remember
Speaker 1: growing up in upstate New York where even though we
Speaker 1: were all kind of in the same category, there were
Speaker 1: some kids that would go to school wearing Jordan's or Nikes,
Speaker 1: and then they would look at the kids and say,
Speaker 1: we're payless and be like, okay, you're poor. And that's
Speaker 1: how as a child you knew you were poor.
Speaker 2: But the people who had the Jordans and stuff when
Speaker 2: I was growing up with the drug dealers for the
Speaker 2: most part, you know, I mean, either the drug dealers
Speaker 2: are like the football players because you know, people in
Speaker 2: their minds like all these people are going places, so
Speaker 2: you know, let me throw them some shoes or something
Speaker 2: like that. But for the most part, the drug dealers
Speaker 2: had to fly kicks that I remember, you know, growing up.
Speaker 2: I don't even remember what I didn't. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: sit in and try, like what did that wear back then?
Speaker 2: Sneak awise, I had some converse because you know, Snoop
Speaker 2: Dogg came out in like ninety two ninety three, so
Speaker 2: we had the converse all stars. You know, That's all
Speaker 2: I can really think of.
Speaker 1: So take me back to the cheese toast, which, by
Speaker 1: the way, I did have On the show, someone had
Speaker 1: did it with sugar and that was impressed.
Speaker 2: Mine was straight cheese toast to butter with a slice
Speaker 2: of cheese, cup of tea. That's what my grandmother would
Speaker 2: give us. And I can even still right now think
Speaker 2: about that, that feeling of having that, like it was
Speaker 2: just an amazing meal. I can't remember that. That wasn't
Speaker 2: even breakfast. That might have just been like, yo, you
Speaker 2: just got home from school. You might get some cheese
Speaker 2: toast with a cup of tea, you know, definitely, like
Speaker 2: I said, gritch and eggs for breakfast.
Speaker 1: And you keep referencing your grandma's house. Is there a
Speaker 1: reason because did you stay with her?
Speaker 2: No? Well, when I was young, my mother, my mother
Speaker 2: was a school teacher, you know, and my grandmother was
Speaker 2: a lunch lady. Right, so you know, I grew up
Speaker 2: in the air when you was in fifth grade, you know,
Speaker 2: you get, I get I could get dropped off a
Speaker 2: my grandma house and wait there till the adults come.
Speaker 2: And you know, I would never dare do that with
Speaker 2: my kids now, but you know, just back then, life
Speaker 2: was different. So I would literally wait till my mom
Speaker 2: came home from school. So I spent so much time,
Speaker 2: you know, at my grandmother's house, Like, so, yeah, I
Speaker 2: spent a lot.
Speaker 1: Of time over there, okay, And then take me through
Speaker 1: to at least fast forward to like your first walk
Speaker 1: of I want to get into entertainment or in that direction.
Speaker 2: My grandmother's house, sitting outside while they were waiting waiting
Speaker 2: for my mom and my grandma to get home. And like,
Speaker 2: when I was young, it used to seem like it
Speaker 2: was this huge field between my grandmother's house and my
Speaker 2: cousin Gloria's house. But the field really isn't that big now,
Speaker 2: But when I was younger, I used to feel like
Speaker 2: it was really big, and I would just be out
Speaker 2: there acting like I was performing, Like I literally would
Speaker 2: be facing the field, acting like that field was full
Speaker 2: of full of people, and I would be either be
Speaker 2: acting like I was, you know, at a certain point
Speaker 2: doing rock and roll. At certain points, I was just
Speaker 2: giving like speeches, and then like you know, as I
Speaker 2: started to getting hip hop, I started to act like I
Speaker 2: was rapping to a crowd. So that was my first Uh,
Speaker 2: I guess that's when the bug kind of hit me,
Speaker 2: Like y'all want to entertain in some way shape or form.
Speaker 1: Did you see or hear it somewhere and then it
Speaker 1: like touched you? Was it like maybe per Like I
Speaker 1: remember when I was a kid, I would see Michael
Speaker 1: Jackson performing. People pass out and I'll be like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, like that's incredible. Was there something like that
Speaker 1: that touched you to get you out into that field?
Speaker 2: Nah? I just think that. You know, my dad used
Speaker 2: to play music a lot, and you know, there was
Speaker 2: always albums lying around, so you would just see those
Speaker 2: people and they used to look they used to look cool,
Speaker 2: you know. I used to I'm a big cartoon guy
Speaker 2: to this day. So I used to like watch a
Speaker 2: lot of ThunderCats and.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the Thundercat.
Speaker 2: Thundercast, and it was there was a spin off of
Speaker 2: the ThunderCats. I think it was the silver Fish or
Speaker 2: something like that. Maybe I'm bugging, but I remember, or
Speaker 2: maybe it was or maybe it was something with birds,
Speaker 2: you know, the cats. The ThunderCats were cats, but then
Speaker 2: it was there was a spin off show that was
Speaker 2: either Birds of Fish. I don't remember which one it was,
Speaker 2: but I remember like I would have this imagination that
Speaker 2: I was you know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I
Speaker 2: was an animal like figure, and I had a band
Speaker 2: behind me that was all those animal humanoids and we
Speaker 2: were like this group. And I don't know why I
Speaker 2: would go out in the yard and perform as this
Speaker 2: group all the time.
Speaker 1: So imagination at its best, that's.
Speaker 2: That's all it was. So it's like, yeah, so then what.
Speaker 1: Was that big next big milestone? After you know you're performing,
Speaker 1: you kind of have this like love affair with performing.
Speaker 1: What was that next big milestone or pivotal moment where
Speaker 1: you said maybe I should actually push a button and
Speaker 1: take it a step further.
Speaker 2: Well, for radio, it started with me getting an internship.
Speaker 2: That's why I think internships are so important. And I
Speaker 2: got an internship when I was eighteen years old in Charleston,
Speaker 2: South Carolina. And the reason I was able to get
Speaker 2: that internship is because I always tell people, man, stop acting.
Speaker 3: Like you know and just ask questions.
Speaker 2: So I've always been a question ask her, right, Like,
Speaker 2: if there's something that I'm interested in, something I don't
Speaker 2: know nothing about, I just asked questions about it, a
Speaker 2: lot of questions, because you know, when you ask a
Speaker 2: lot of questions, you know you'll get you'll get answers.
Speaker 2: So I just simply asked my man his name was
Speaker 2: Willy Will because he used to work as Z ninety
Speaker 2: three Jams in Charleston, South Carolina, and we used to
Speaker 2: rap together. Well, let me, I need to take a
Speaker 2: step back, right. Rap is what we all thought was
Speaker 2: gonna get us out of the hood right when you
Speaker 2: was young, because when you looked on television or you
Speaker 2: looked in magazines, the people who looked like you, who
Speaker 2: were successful Black people were usually in rap are some
Speaker 2: form of entertainment, are in athletics. So I always thought
Speaker 2: rap was gonna take me out of the hood. I
Speaker 2: love to write, always been a writer, so I just
Speaker 2: started turning those stories I was writing into into raps.
Speaker 2: But I was never good in the booth, so I
Speaker 2: would like, go in the booth. I couldn't like catch
Speaker 2: the bead stuff like that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like that, I just could never do it. But I
Speaker 2: was always good at writing, good at helping people pick songs,
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And Willie Will was a guy who
Speaker 2: could rap. He could actually he sounded really good, you know,
Speaker 2: in the booth. And I just asked him how did
Speaker 2: he get in the radio, and he was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I got an internship, and I was like, Yo, it'sdadd easy.
Speaker 2: I could just go down there and get an internship.
Speaker 2: And he was like, yeah, like I gotta be in
Speaker 2: school or nothing, because in my mind, you got to
Speaker 2: be in He was like, no, this is nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: eight Charles in South Carolina. So that's what I did.
Speaker 2: I drove down there and I got an internship and
Speaker 2: literally they gave me then internship and that's how I
Speaker 2: got into the radio game.
Speaker 3: So rap is what made.
Speaker 2: Me feel like, Okay, this is gonna get me out
Speaker 2: the hood. And then that ultimately led me to radio,
Speaker 2: which was what changed my life. And you know, I
Speaker 2: had a great mentor named doctor Robert Evans. You know,
Speaker 2: I talk about him all the time. You know, in
Speaker 2: my first book, I got a chapter called fuck your dreams,
Speaker 2: you know, if they're not your dream right, because a
Speaker 2: lot of times we see things working for other people
Speaker 2: and we say, oh, we want to do that too,
Speaker 2: but that's not what God has meant for you. So
Speaker 2: doctor Evans told me, he was like, Yo, you suck
Speaker 2: as a rapper, but you are an amazing radio personality
Speaker 2: and if you focus on radio, you could be one
Speaker 2: of the best that ever did it, And he literally
Speaker 2: said that to me, and I took his advice.
Speaker 1: So I don't like to jump around, but it's the irony.
Speaker 1: And you're saying that that was the advice you got.
Speaker 1: But then in Get Honest or Die Lying, you actually
Speaker 1: talk about doing the opposite in regards to.
Speaker 3: Your daughters astronaut kids.
Speaker 1: You still though cherished that that moment of honesty.
Speaker 2: Well, astronaut kids. You know, in the new book is
Speaker 2: a chapter I did with my man, Elliott Connie, who's
Speaker 2: a psychotherapist, and you know, it's about the astronaut kid theory,
Speaker 2: Like if your child comes to you and your child says, hey,
Speaker 2: I want to be an astronaut. You know, you don't
Speaker 2: say all that's impossible, you'll never be an astronaut, blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. You tell them, okay, so how we're going
Speaker 2: to get it done? You know, you pour into them,
Speaker 2: you encourage them. And I also talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: in Black Privilege, about how I had a family member
Speaker 2: when I was just sitting around talking about all my dreams,
Speaker 2: talking about everything I want to accomplish, they told me
Speaker 2: not to set my goal. So how because if I
Speaker 2: don't accomplish him, I'm gonna be hurt. And I literally
Speaker 2: said to that person, that is the stupidest shit I
Speaker 2: ever heard in my life, because I really felt that way,
Speaker 2: and with asternat kids, when a child comes to you
Speaker 2: and they say they want to be something, you should
Speaker 2: pour into them. I still do believe in the fucking
Speaker 2: dreams mentality, but I believe that more so with adults
Speaker 2: who I know are chasing things that they see working
Speaker 2: for other people as opposed to tapping into what it
Speaker 2: is that they truly should be doing, you know themselves.
Speaker 1: I agree. So what you're saying is like over eighteen,
Speaker 1: you definitely be honest. I remember I had an interview
Speaker 1: with DC young Fly and he wanted to be like
Speaker 1: a basketball player, and he said, you know, he transferred schools.
Speaker 1: He was like the best basketball player in this like
Speaker 1: little school. He was going to move to a different school.
Speaker 1: He was like the worst basketball player, and the coach
Speaker 1: like catapultar his dreams, was like, you'll never be a
Speaker 1: basketball player. And he was like, well, thank god for
Speaker 1: him saying that because it forced him to like check
Speaker 1: out other lanes. And I do agree with that, but
Speaker 1: I also heard the astronaut thing. I'm a new mom,
Speaker 1: like I'm daughters too, so I'm like soaking up any
Speaker 1: advice any parent will give me, you know. And I
Speaker 1: was like, well, you know all these some people say
Speaker 1: let your kid fall or whatever, but I did like
Speaker 1: the beauty in the astronaut theory. Going back to your internship,
Speaker 1: sorry to Derail. I like to see I like to
Speaker 1: see the growth in you, and you see it. You
Speaker 1: see it very You're very transparent about the growth of
Speaker 1: who you were we were trying to be, and then
Speaker 1: who you've become and who you're actively becoming. But go ahead,
Speaker 1: take back to so you get into radio yep, and
Speaker 1: what's what's the environment, like what what do you find
Speaker 1: that you love the most about it? And what was
Speaker 1: your internship duties at the time?
Speaker 2: Oh, internship duties. I did everything. I had to drive
Speaker 2: the station vehicle. I had to put the posters up,
Speaker 2: you know, I had to set up you know, the
Speaker 2: DJ equipment if need be, set up the tables for
Speaker 2: people to you know, put their stuff on, like literally
Speaker 2: whatever I needed to do, Like you know, people like
Speaker 2: to call that do boys stuff. But it's like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess you know. So I used to actually take
Speaker 2: the station vehicle home. So even when it was other
Speaker 2: intern shifts, they would come and be like, well, where's
Speaker 2: the truck?
Speaker 1: Why are you taking it?
Speaker 2: Because when they would come and be like where's the truck,
Speaker 2: then they would have you know what, I think Charlotmage
Speaker 2: had it last.
Speaker 3: So they would call like, I mean you got the truck?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Actually I do. What's up? Oh we got somebody
Speaker 2: got a remote in the hour, I'm on the way,
Speaker 2: and I would take the truck and I would just
Speaker 2: go to the remote with the intern.
Speaker 3: So I was there. I was crashing everybody's set.
Speaker 2: And then not just coming to the you know, all
Speaker 2: the remotes, I would be sitting in the studio being
Speaker 2: a fly on the wall. You know. Willie will used
Speaker 2: to let me sit in with him a lot, and
Speaker 2: I would just sit there and just like you know.
Speaker 3: Soak it all up, you know, taking uh, taking what.
Speaker 2: Was going on. And this is another reason the astronaut
Speaker 2: kid theory is so powerful because I always talk about
Speaker 2: my homegirl Testing Spencer, you know who's from Charleton South
Speaker 2: cam and her and Baby Jay had a show on
Speaker 2: Z ninety three called The Breakfast Club when I was
Speaker 2: growing up, and that was the huge morning show in Charleston,
Speaker 2: Z ninety three still is the big heritage station down there,
Speaker 2: and Tesla calls. She called one day when I was
Speaker 2: on a Sunday morning doing what we call voice tracking.
Speaker 2: So voice tracking is basically you would record your your
Speaker 2: breaks upload them, but you still had to sit in
Speaker 2: the studio while the show was on because I was new,
Speaker 2: you know, And she called and she goes, yo, you
Speaker 2: know what. She was telling me about a traffic accident
Speaker 2: that was somewhere on but she was like, yo, you
Speaker 2: sound really good. And I said thank you. She's like, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not just saying that, like you sound really good,
Speaker 2: like a natural. And the confidence that gave me, like
Speaker 2: the boost, the energy that gave me, like oh shit,
Speaker 2: Tessauspencer from the Breakfast Club just told me I sound good.
Speaker 2: Like So it solidified to me that I was doing
Speaker 2: what I was supposed to be doing because it already
Speaker 2: felt good. It felt amazing, like I'm talking, it felt
Speaker 2: like on that microphone. It felt like the first time
Speaker 2: you had orgasm, Like literally like that first time you
Speaker 2: got high, you know, and you're like, oh man, this
Speaker 2: is amazing, Like it just felt incredible. And so when
Speaker 2: she told me that it just like set something off
Speaker 2: of me, that it lit a spark that hasn't hasn't gone.
Speaker 1: Out, like this is definitely my purpose.
Speaker 3: I knew that because you got this tattoo I got
Speaker 3: on my arm or hire Is.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, is that a Thundercat?
Speaker 2: No, it's Wolverine. It's horrible though. My man, it's a
Speaker 2: guy named t Willis. This when tattoos were illegal in
Speaker 2: South Carolina. My man, t Willis did this. But it's
Speaker 2: Wolverine from the X Men holding a microphone in his hand.
Speaker 1: You need to get this.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I see see it.
Speaker 2: And the reason I got Wolverine because Wolverine is still
Speaker 2: my favorite X Men character. But the thing I loved
Speaker 2: about Wolverine was his healing powers. Literally, he had the
Speaker 2: ability to heal from any situation. And so I always
Speaker 2: knew in my mind even back then. I think I
Speaker 2: got this when I was seventeen, I knew that. Yo.
Speaker 2: Maybe I think I might have been a little older,
Speaker 2: like eighteen nineteen, but I knew in my mind that
Speaker 2: I wanted to have that ability. I wanted to have
Speaker 2: the ability to heal from anything. This is befo I didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't know nothing but no therapy. I wasn't on
Speaker 2: no healing journey back then. I was out of my
Speaker 2: mind back then. But I just knew in my mind
Speaker 2: I wanted to be able to heal from any situation.
Speaker 2: And I knew physically, and I used to say this
Speaker 2: to myself. I knew that wasn't possible physically, so I
Speaker 2: used to always say emotionally mentally, you know, I wanted
Speaker 2: to be able to heal from anything. And he's holding
Speaker 2: a mic because I thought rap was gonna be what
Speaker 2: changed my life, but actually it was these type.
Speaker 3: Of microphones that changed my life.
Speaker 2: And then now you see, I'm I'm a huge mental advocate,
Speaker 2: huge mental health advocate, helping people on their healing journey.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, man, God, don't waste nothing.
Speaker 1: He don't. But now, back at eighteen to nineteen, you
Speaker 1: also had the name Charlotamagne or you had the nickname.
Speaker 3: Then, yes, because I was.
Speaker 2: I graduated from night school and let me see, I
Speaker 2: graduate from night school in nineteen ninety eight, so I
Speaker 2: was either I was either about to be twenty or
Speaker 2: still nineteen. But yeah, because I used to sell crack
Speaker 2: and I used to always say my name was Charles,
Speaker 2: like because you know, I come from a small town,
Speaker 2: so if I said my real name, people be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's Larry's son, that's Julie's son. So I used to
Speaker 2: always say my name was Charles or Charlie. And then
Speaker 2: we used to all smoke a lot of weeds, so
Speaker 2: we all had a like like weed nickname. So I
Speaker 2: was like Charlie Chronic. Somebody else was like Mikey Marijuana.
Speaker 2: Somebody else was Nikabodism, somebody else was Bobby Buddha.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because throughout your whole story it
Speaker 1: seems like you're you had the Charlemagne, which was almost
Speaker 1: I hate to say it for lack of better terms,
Speaker 1: but you had this like bad boy persona type oh yeah,
Speaker 1: thing that you were you were leading with. But then
Speaker 1: in the back of your mind, even with the god
Speaker 1: or with the next it was like in the back
Speaker 1: of your mind but like healing or moving in this
Speaker 1: like purposeful direction, but even lingering in the background.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, But even with Charlamagne, because Charlamagne is French
Speaker 2: for Charles the Great, and Charlemagne was a Roman emperor
Speaker 2: who went about spreading religion and education. And then you
Speaker 2: know in Haiti there's a general Charlemagne and he was
Speaker 2: just a revolutionary, right, So I picked that name for
Speaker 2: those reasons because they meant something. So I'm sitting in
Speaker 2: night school looking at the history book and I see
Speaker 2: Charles the Great, and I'm like, Charles the Great, I'm
Speaker 2: like Charlemagne. I'm like, I'm like, Charlomagne is French for
Speaker 2: Charles the Great. So I'm like, oh, I just call
Speaker 2: myself Charlamagne, Charlamagne the God. So it really didn't make
Speaker 2: no sense. It's like it'd be like Charles the Great,
Speaker 2: the God. But I was seventeen in high all the
Speaker 2: time I eighteen. I don't remember how. I can't remember
Speaker 2: how I was, Like, I know it was nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 2: so I was like nineteen probably, but I was in
Speaker 2: night school, Okay.
Speaker 1: And then now, when do you officially after the internships
Speaker 1: start getting into paid, like how long?
Speaker 2: I I was an intern for a while because they
Speaker 2: actually had canceled the internship programs, and then they brought
Speaker 2: me back. And then when they brought me back, they
Speaker 2: hired me in the promotions department. So basically to get paid,
Speaker 2: I don't. I think it might have been six hours
Speaker 2: an hour if that at the time. And so I
Speaker 2: was getting paid a little bit of money, you know,
Speaker 2: to being promotions. And then my man, Ron White, my guy,
Speaker 2: Ron White, still my guy this day. He was a
Speaker 2: music director at the time, and he was like, yo,
Speaker 2: you need to You said, you ever thought about being
Speaker 2: on the radio?
Speaker 3: And I was like nah. He was like no, nah,
Speaker 3: because I hadn't, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, yeah, I was just I was
Speaker 2: just happy to be there and like you know, every
Speaker 2: now and then I would jump on with Willie will
Speaker 2: you know, but I never thought to myself, I can
Speaker 2: get my own show or anything like that. He was like, yo,
Speaker 2: you should, you should, you should.
Speaker 3: Be on air.
Speaker 2: And so Ron White is the president that started, you know,
Speaker 2: allowed me to voice track and put me on their
Speaker 2: you know. So that's why I got mad love for
Speaker 2: you know, Ron to this day. Like, you know, certain
Speaker 2: people change the trajectory trajectory of your life, and you know,
Speaker 2: you you should always honor those people, you know, for
Speaker 2: even if you're not on the great terms of them,
Speaker 2: even if you don't like the person no more, you
Speaker 2: should always honor them in your story, Yeah, by telling
Speaker 2: them that you know, but tell telling that story about them,
Speaker 2: because you can't erase that.
Speaker 1: The only reason why I wanted to know the how
Speaker 1: long it is? Because we are definitely in the air
Speaker 1: and you talk about it in the book where everyone is,
Speaker 1: especially with the younger people, and I try to think
Speaker 1: back if I was like that, even though I catch
Speaker 1: myself still being like that is like the overnight success,
Speaker 1: Like how long did it take? That's why I wanted
Speaker 1: to stress, like thirty years in radio broadcasting? How long
Speaker 1: did it take of you struggling before you got your
Speaker 1: first big Like, uh, well, I don't want to say
Speaker 1: the six dollar check, but that you.
Speaker 2: Know, Oh, I didn't get a huge check in radio?
Speaker 2: Tell Breakfast Club wow, because.
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club was just easily ten years, right.
Speaker 2: Yet longer cause it was that was Breakfast Club was
Speaker 2: the seventh radio station I worked at. So I started
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight and then I got with Breakfast
Speaker 2: Club in two thousand and ten.
Speaker 3: Year, So what's that?
Speaker 1: What's that twelve years? Yeah?
Speaker 2: So I worked at four radio stations in Charleston and
Speaker 2: then I was with Wendy Winn. But I worked with
Speaker 2: Wendy for like a year and a half for free,
Speaker 2: you know. And then when I got put on salary,
Speaker 2: I was making seventy thousand dollars a year. And then
Speaker 2: I got my own morning show in Philadelphia, and I
Speaker 2: still was making like seventy grand a year, seventy seventy
Speaker 2: five grand a year, something like that. And then I
Speaker 2: went back home. I had to go back home to
Speaker 2: South carolinacause I fired four times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was my next one. Why were you
Speaker 1: getting fired so much?
Speaker 2: That was just a game, Like it wasn't even about
Speaker 2: anything that I was necessarily doing. It's just like that's
Speaker 2: just the business of a radio. Like when I started
Speaker 2: as the ninety three Jams. That's why I was an intern.
Speaker 2: That's when I was in promotions. That's when I worked
Speaker 2: in programming. I quit, you know, there to go work
Speaker 2: at a station called Hot Night nine. My man George Cook,
Speaker 2: who is the operations manager at K one O four
Speaker 2: in Dallas. He's the first person to give me a
Speaker 2: full time job on radio. Still a great mental mind
Speaker 2: to this day. And even then I was making nineteen
Speaker 2: grand a year. And then I, you know, went to
Speaker 2: Columbia after I got fired from Hot ninety nine. They
Speaker 2: fired George George who hired me, They fired him, bought
Speaker 2: in a new guy, Corey Hill, who was the program director,
Speaker 2: and then Corey fired me because he Corey wanted to
Speaker 2: bring in his own people. Of course, that's just the
Speaker 2: way the game goes in radio.
Speaker 1: Now, during this whole journey, what's your mental health looking like?
Speaker 1: Are you starting a second guess whether this is your journey?
Speaker 1: I really want to dig into that mental health state
Speaker 1: when you're going through that roller coaster wave, because you
Speaker 1: even ended up back at home with your parents at
Speaker 1: some point.
Speaker 2: I did the first time. The first time I got
Speaker 2: fired from radio, which was Hot ninety eight nine in Charleston,
Speaker 2: I was a little I was a little fucked up
Speaker 2: mentally because I didn't know that I could go do
Speaker 2: radio other places. So in my mind like that was
Speaker 2: my one shot. Yeah, because I mean I didn't I'm
Speaker 2: from Monst Corner, South Carolina. I know that area. I
Speaker 2: know I can have success in Charleston. I never even
Speaker 2: thought about, you know, doing radio other places. And it
Speaker 2: wasn't until I did this demo tape. But it was
Speaker 2: actually because I used to do my man, doctor Robert
Speaker 2: Evans and his son, my guy DJ Bluss loved him
Speaker 2: to death. They had a record label called Never So Deep,
Speaker 2: and so I was doing an r for them, and
Speaker 2: they put out a compilation album and it was like
Speaker 2: all of their artists because they had a subsidiary deal
Speaker 2: with an MCA back then. That's MCA was a big
Speaker 2: label back in the day. And so they had a
Speaker 2: compilation album and I narrated the compilation album, but I
Speaker 2: put it together like a radio show, and so we
Speaker 2: were just sending that out, you know, around the country,
Speaker 2: and one of the program directors in South Carolina named
Speaker 2: Mike Love, he was like yo, He'd sent me an email.
Speaker 2: He was like, yo, Yo, do you do radio for real?
Speaker 2: And I'm like yeah, and he was like, man, come
Speaker 2: see me. And so I drove an hour and a
Speaker 2: half the Columbia, South Carolina from Monks Corner.
Speaker 3: I met my guy, Mike G.
Speaker 2: Love salutor Mike Love, and Mike started putting me on
Speaker 2: in Columbia Thursday, I think I was on Friday, Saturday
Speaker 2: and Sunday in Columbia.
Speaker 3: Maybe Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. I don't remember it.
Speaker 1: And that was your second after getting fired from the first.
Speaker 3: That was yeah, that was it, But that was the
Speaker 3: third station I worked at.
Speaker 1: Third.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I loved working in Columbia because my wife
Speaker 2: was going to the University of South Carolina, so that's
Speaker 2: in Columbia. So now I had a reason to be
Speaker 2: up there every weekend, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 2: once again, that's God. You can't you cannot script that,
Speaker 2: like that is all God. That's God putting all of
Speaker 2: those pieces together. Like I want y'all to be with
Speaker 2: each other, you know here right, even if y'all go
Speaker 2: through ups and y'all go through downs, I still want
Speaker 2: you all around each other. Because we did break up
Speaker 2: for a year at one point during that time. We've
Speaker 2: been together twenty six years. But long story short, I
Speaker 2: ended up in Columbia that station. Big DM flipped formats,
Speaker 2: so I ended up going to work for the station
Speaker 2: that they bought, which was Hot one O three nine,
Speaker 2: which was the big hip hop station in that market.
Speaker 2: And from Hot one O three point nine, that's when
Speaker 2: when Williams got syndicated on Hot one on three point nine.
Speaker 2: So when they would come to the market, her and
Speaker 2: her husband, I would just show them love, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, like make sure they was good or
Speaker 2: whatever they needed, you know, take them to the clubs,
Speaker 2: stuff like that. And that's how we forged a relationship,
Speaker 2: you know. And and it wasn't just they forged a
Speaker 2: relationship with other people around the station at that time too,
Speaker 2: like you know, my homegirl Venom, she had a good
Speaker 2: relationship with them as well. So we all just had
Speaker 2: a had a relationship, you know, And that's how all
Speaker 2: of those dots ended up connecting.
Speaker 1: Okay, how was it working with Wendy Williams? Oh?
Speaker 2: Best best and worst time in my life? You know,
Speaker 2: best and worst, best and worst time in my life,
Speaker 2: just because like Wendy come from it, she comes from
Speaker 2: a different era, you know, Like there's been time I remember,
Speaker 2: I remember sitting in the studio offering some input and
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up and do it my way or
Speaker 2: get the fuck out, you know what I mean, shut that.
Speaker 2: I don't want to H shit from you, motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Like so it was like it was like before H.
Speaker 1: Well nowadays HR terrified.
Speaker 2: I think about that shit all the time, Like when's
Speaker 2: their HR departments? Back then?
Speaker 3: It couldn't have been not the ship we know.
Speaker 1: I think. Also when you're young, I don't think anyone
Speaker 1: really knows how to use HR. I mean, I could
Speaker 1: be wrong with today's culture of cancel culture like people
Speaker 1: are like more, but I remember being like sexually her,
Speaker 1: like all types of things because I did not know
Speaker 1: how HR worked. I just knew I needed my job
Speaker 1: and I wasn't willing to do anything to jeopardize.
Speaker 2: And that's you know, back then, it was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I had I was. I had personal relationship with them, man,
Speaker 2: professional relationship with them, and you saw how everything turned
Speaker 2: out with you know, her and her husband. So it
Speaker 2: was like all of that was a very tumultuous, tumultuous,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm saying the word right, tumultualists, tumultuous, tumultuous,
Speaker 2: A fucked.
Speaker 3: Up situation it was. It was all fun. It was
Speaker 3: a very fucking up situation.
Speaker 1: Like that too. Also, it is like because the lines
Speaker 1: were blurred, right, so that's why she was talking. So
Speaker 1: what was the highlight of it?
Speaker 2: Just working with Wendy, working with one of the greatest
Speaker 2: media personalities of all time. You know, regardless of what
Speaker 2: her you know, personal showcomings may have been, professionally, she's
Speaker 2: one of the fucking best to ever do it. You know,
Speaker 2: from TV to radio, like I mean the things that
Speaker 2: I used to watch her do, as far as like
Speaker 2: you know, show prep, like you know, Wendy was a
Speaker 2: person who really lived. She lived, you know, the culture
Speaker 2: that she spoke about. She wasn't one of those people
Speaker 2: who got in front of the microphone and gossiped because
Speaker 2: you know, she was performing.
Speaker 3: That's really who she was.
Speaker 2: And so for me, it was just that's not I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do the gossip thing, but it
Speaker 2: was just like be authentic, be who you are. Like
Speaker 2: I would see I would be with her all day
Speaker 2: and then come sit with her in that studio and
Speaker 2: do the show and watch her detail our day. You
Speaker 2: understand what I'm saying. So it's just like everything was
Speaker 2: content for her. I was in the store and this happened,
Speaker 2: we were driving and this, Like it was all content.
Speaker 2: And so it's like for me, that's like that's how
Speaker 2: that's always been my approach, you know, like your life,
Speaker 2: your life is your best content. That's why I'm able
Speaker 2: to write three books because I'm not performing. I'm literally
Speaker 2: just showcasing and sharing all of these different things that
Speaker 2: you know, I've experienced, all these different things that I've learned,
Speaker 2: and I'm not afraid to be transparent, Like I gotta
Speaker 2: be afraid to be transparent. When I've heard Wendy Williams
Speaker 2: talk about being on crack smoking, smoking sniff and coke cooking,
Speaker 2: the coke smoking, the crack, throwing up on the radiator
Speaker 2: because she was so high, and then the fucking radiator cooking,
Speaker 2: the cooking, the throw up.
Speaker 3: Like, but that's that's a surreal It's an amazing story.
Speaker 2: So if I come from being next to that, why
Speaker 2: wouldn't I be just as authentic? Plus we hip hop. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so think about all the stories we've heard, the jay
Speaker 2: Z's tell and the Big East Tell and the Scarfaces
Speaker 2: and the killing Mike, all of these people that we love.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, I want to be that same
Speaker 2: type of storyteller.
Speaker 1: So was it in that moment that you realize that
Speaker 1: authenticity was the key to success in radio?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I knew that. But I knew that before
Speaker 2: Wendy because I was already admiring people like Wendy.
Speaker 3: I was already admiring pe D Green.
Speaker 2: Pe D Green is that's my all time favorite radio personality, right,
Speaker 2: So I already knew authenticity was what separated you. Period. Like,
Speaker 2: it's ironic that the name of this book is called
Speaker 2: Get Honest or Die Lying, because that could have been
Speaker 2: the name of my first book. Because literally, I've always
Speaker 2: my daddy used to always tell me when you lying
Speaker 2: to people, or he was used to say, specifically him,
Speaker 2: you lying. You think you're lying to me, but you're
Speaker 2: only lying to yourself. And so I never ever wanted
Speaker 2: to be that person that is, you know, lying to themselves,
Speaker 2: because what happens is you end up volunteering those lives
Speaker 2: to other people. And I think that's what's happening in
Speaker 2: this era that we're in now in social media, like
Speaker 2: you know, just everybody feel like they got to perform,
Speaker 2: So who's really truly being themselves? Everybody's showing up with
Speaker 2: a mask on?
Speaker 1: Yeah, social but you know what it's you talk You
Speaker 1: mentioned Larussell, but I thought l Russell did a really
Speaker 1: good job at kind of putting the case and I
Speaker 1: talked him about and I'm like, yo, I can't be
Speaker 1: that transparent. He's like, you got to you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, he'd be showing like, Okay, this was the
Speaker 1: sales or this is me pressing up the show. He
Speaker 1: would show everything, just document everything, and I thought that
Speaker 1: was like a crazy amount of transparency. I was like,
Speaker 1: I could never ever do that.
Speaker 3: I love that dude.
Speaker 2: Man. L Russell was introduced to me by my late
Speaker 2: great friend Hovain, and I never forget it because Hovain
Speaker 2: he sent me a video of Lrussell rapping and Larussell
Speaker 2: it was like the first one. It was the one
Speaker 2: that went crazy viral. Well, he was rapping about so
Speaker 2: many things, the socially redeeming value, he was rapping about
Speaker 2: being a young brother, trying to heal. Like it was
Speaker 2: everything I was on and so Hovain sent it to
Speaker 2: me and I didn't get a chance to listen to it.
Speaker 2: I remember a couple of days later, Vain text me like,
Speaker 2: there's no way you listened to that, because you know me.
Speaker 2: He was like, there's no way you listened to that,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know what, let me let
Speaker 2: me listen to it. When he text me that, I
Speaker 2: listened and I'm like, why are you just telling me
Speaker 2: about him? He's like, I sent you this three days ago,
Speaker 2: crazy right, And so it was like immediately I had
Speaker 2: to repost it because I wanted the world to hear that,
Speaker 2: and then you know when you meet l Russell, his
Speaker 2: energy is just just everything man. So he's just one
Speaker 2: of them young brothers. He always got my support just
Speaker 2: because he's a He's a solid, solid human being who
Speaker 2: I think is delivering a message not just of independence
Speaker 2: when it comes to business, but a message of healing
Speaker 2: that I think a lot of brothers need to heal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Integrity is like definitely like a word I use
Speaker 1: a lot, and when I'm looking for entrepreneurs, celebrities or influencers,
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for that level of integrity. And I
Speaker 1: remember just being like, okay, like talented, definitely talented and
Speaker 1: all that, but I was like I want to know,
Speaker 1: like if we're a fly on your wall, like what
Speaker 1: am I seeing?
Speaker 2: For real? But that's what integrity is. And that's that's
Speaker 2: another part of the book, right get Honest to Die line.
Speaker 2: That's why I said, like, you know, we tell we
Speaker 2: lie to ourselves and then we volunteer these lives the
Speaker 2: other people. Integrity to me is doing what's right when
Speaker 2: nobody's around. Who are you when the camera's not on?
Speaker 2: Who are you when the microphone isn't on? Like because
Speaker 2: I really care more about God than anybody. That's why
Speaker 2: you don't care about perception. You should focus on your
Speaker 2: character because perception is what everybody thinks about you, and
Speaker 2: that varies from person to person. Character is who you
Speaker 2: actually are. So I care about my character. I don't
Speaker 2: care if the world has a perception of me because
Speaker 2: they don't know me, you know. And that's why people
Speaker 2: will say things like, what's the biggest misconception about you? Charlman?
Speaker 2: There is no misconception because I don't know what version
Speaker 2: of me you saw. I've been doing this shit for
Speaker 2: twenty six years, you know what I mean. I don't
Speaker 2: know what version of me you saw. So whatever version
Speaker 2: of me you saw, whatever perception you have of me
Speaker 2: based off what you saw, I can't trip off that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: No, Now, after the Wendy Williams, you leave Wendy Williams.
Speaker 1: How long was the gap between Wendy Williams and the
Speaker 1: Breakfast Club?
Speaker 2: I left Wendy November tewod, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: No, you remember this well.
Speaker 2: I remember it for a particular reason. I remember it
Speaker 2: because President Barack Obama became He became President elect on
Speaker 2: November third, two thousand and eight. So and I got
Speaker 2: fired November second, two thousand and eight from Wendy, but
Speaker 2: like twenty five people got fired like it was a
Speaker 2: massive layoff. People forget how fucked up the economy was
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight. So it wasn't just me
Speaker 2: that got fired. You had great legendary radio personality like Bond,
Speaker 2: Harper got fired and Champagne like these are legendary urban
Speaker 2: adult contemporary personality.
Speaker 1: When you got fired, did you actually look at it
Speaker 1: as everyone's getting the rap? Because I know me, I'll
Speaker 1: be like, I know everyone's going through it, but what
Speaker 1: about well, you know.
Speaker 2: It was good for me because when I got fired,
Speaker 2: it was news like it was in like the New
Speaker 2: York Times and like I think it was pix eleven
Speaker 2: or one of these local New York radio stations came
Speaker 2: to interview me and Wendy about my firing. I remember
Speaker 2: them saying fan favorite, and I was like, oh shit,
Speaker 2: fan favorite, because you got to think when I first
Speaker 2: started with Wendy, they hated me, like literally, New York
Speaker 2: City did not fuck with me. Like they even put
Speaker 2: up a survey that said they said, shar Charlamae sent
Speaker 2: back home. It was like eighty five percent of people
Speaker 2: was like sending his ass back home.
Speaker 1: How did that make you feel when you saw those surveys?
Speaker 2: It didn't make me feel any way. Like I promise you, man,
Speaker 2: I've never been that kind of person. Like I just
Speaker 2: I understand things happen, and I have such a belief
Speaker 2: in myself, and I have such a belief in God,
Speaker 2: and I have such a belief in what you know,
Speaker 2: what God has me here to do that I just
Speaker 2: feel like all of that I knew even back then,
Speaker 2: even though it might have stung, I just knew it
Speaker 2: was part of the process. Like I knew I was
Speaker 2: not going to lose. I constantly hear jay z voice
Speaker 2: in my head. I will not lose, you know. I
Speaker 2: just I knew that I was not going to lose.
Speaker 2: And so it's like, all right, I'll get y'all. You
Speaker 2: might you may not like me now, but I'll get y'all.
Speaker 2: And fast forward two and a half years later, the
Speaker 2: news is reporting I'm a fan favorite, and guess what
Speaker 2: me working at Wendy. I did what I was supposed
Speaker 2: to do at Wendy so much that I ended up
Speaker 2: getting my own radio show in Philadelphia and I loved
Speaker 2: it right because I got fired November second, two thousand
Speaker 2: and eight. My oldest daughter, who actually turned sixteen today
Speaker 2: or the day we're taping this, she had been born
Speaker 2: June of that year. So from November two thousand and
Speaker 2: eight to like May of two thousand and nine, I
Speaker 2: was home every day with my daughter because my wife
Speaker 2: was the one going to work every day. My wife
Speaker 2: was keeping the lights on. I was too proud to
Speaker 2: go collect unemployment. I had no money.
Speaker 1: You didn't even collect collect.
Speaker 2: I didn't collet unmployment til I got fired from Philadelphia.
Speaker 2: From my fourth time.
Speaker 1: I love that's your wife, and you definitely had that
Speaker 1: team environment like ones down. Well it's okay, we're gonna run.
Speaker 2: It, man. She held it down, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I mean we ultimately had we were facing the victions
Speaker 2: and all types of stuff like that, but she held
Speaker 2: it down. And so it's like when I started off,
Speaker 2: I started doing radio and Philly. I got the morning
Speaker 2: radio show in Philly because of what I had done
Speaker 2: on Wendy Show, and then from morning radio that morning
Speaker 2: radio and in Philly even though I was only there for
Speaker 2: eight nine months and got fired right for the same
Speaker 2: reason they bought in a new program director guy named
Speaker 2: Boogie Dee you know who fired me from one hundred
Speaker 2: point three to beat in Philly. They need to be
Speaker 2: aware of their fuck ups. These people need to be
Speaker 2: aware of the mistakes they made in life. So he
Speaker 2: fired me, and I was We went home for a year,
Speaker 2: me and my wife and my oldest daughter and went home.
Speaker 2: He went home to South Carolina for a year. That's
Speaker 2: when I started collecting unemployment. I had never collected unemployment
Speaker 2: from any of those four radio stations I got fired.
Speaker 2: So I was getting like eleven hundred dollars a week
Speaker 2: for like fifty two weeks the whole year. And the
Speaker 2: last unemployment check I got was like November, like second
Speaker 2: week in November, And that was the same week I
Speaker 2: think I started breakfast club. Wow, yep wow.
Speaker 1: And then you come to breakfast club and this is
Speaker 1: it sounds like you could correct me. Is this this
Speaker 1: the highest salary of your career? Because now you're what
Speaker 1: you said in your book one and now look at you.
Speaker 1: I also, you know, I had to like just out
Speaker 1: of share curiosity, and he made one hundred and twenty
Speaker 1: five k then like and then to see I googled
Speaker 1: it is probably wrong, but I was like, okay, so
Speaker 1: then how much does he make now from the breakfast club?
Speaker 1: I think I said like three million or something like that. Wow,
Speaker 1: is a lie? Is it Google?
Speaker 2: A lie? I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wont from and I have no idea. I'm not
Speaker 3: I'm not one of those guys.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I googled it. I was just random.
Speaker 1: I get curious all the most random stuff. Okay, so
Speaker 1: you're at the breakfast club. Where does publishing take place,
Speaker 1: like the book writing? Where does that like happen? Because
Speaker 1: I know the first time I read Black Privilege had
Speaker 1: to been Was it seven year? No?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it came out, it came out, it came out
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. No, it came out twenty seventeen, came out
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, came out April of twenty seventeen.
Speaker 1: I read that book. It's so funny. The only other
Speaker 1: books I've ever read by entertainers mainly Jay Z Russell Simmons,
Speaker 1: and I read your book and it inspired me to
Speaker 1: read I think Kevin Hart's book, and then I realized, no,
Speaker 1: not everyone's the same. I really like your writing.
Speaker 3: Thank you, I really like it. I mean, I actually write.
Speaker 2: You know, my guy Chris Morrow, who I always give
Speaker 2: credit to because you know, he told me two things
Speaker 2: that absolutely changed my life. He told me twelve years ago,
Speaker 2: you need to write a book, and you need to
Speaker 2: start a podcast. And I always wanted to write a
Speaker 2: book because I'm a writer, right, I knew that was
Speaker 2: gonna come. But I was like a podcast. I was like,
Speaker 2: why would I start a podcast? Podcast for people who
Speaker 2: can't get on radio? Oh, I remember saying that twelve yeah,
Speaker 2: twelve years ago even, and he was like, he was like,
Speaker 2: now I'm telling you man, it's gonna be the next wave. YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 2: And I started listening to Combat Jack around that time,
Speaker 2: God Bless the Dead Reggie Oshe and so I listened.
Speaker 3: I was like, you know what, why not?
Speaker 2: Because in my mind, I'm like, I already been fired,
Speaker 2: you know, four times from radio. And the thing that
Speaker 2: kept me afloating in people's minds after I got fired
Speaker 2: from Philadelphia was I got to salute Angelie going up
Speaker 2: to her satellite radio show doing guest spots on there,
Speaker 2: and me and Little Duball used to do a YouTube
Speaker 2: show called Hood State of the Union Me and Little
Speaker 2: Duball was doing YouTube shows back in two thousands, and
Speaker 2: it was first brand new exactly, and like people would
Speaker 2: watch them on YouTube, but then the Bloggs would pick
Speaker 2: them up like world Star and everybody else.
Speaker 3: And so that's how I ended up.
Speaker 2: Even getting my first looks in TV, like my first
Speaker 2: real looks in TV, because Nick Cannon had a show
Speaker 2: called a Hayton that he was the executive producer on,
Speaker 2: and my girl Tiffany Williams, she put me in Douball
Speaker 2: on that show. So I've always understood the power of
Speaker 2: the Internet, right and how to utilize the Internet to
Speaker 2: build a national audience. So that's why I started the
Speaker 2: podcast because I knew, all right, let's just say I
Speaker 2: do get fired from Breakfast Club, at least I have
Speaker 2: something else, you know, going on. So me and my
Speaker 2: guy Andrew Schultz, who now is the biggest comedian in
Speaker 2: the world, which I would have.
Speaker 1: No idea how impressed a journey.
Speaker 3: I used to go back and listen to old brid
Speaker 3: Idiots episodes.
Speaker 2: I used to say that I'm like yo, Andrews shot
Speaker 2: to get that because there was a comedian named Russell
Speaker 2: uh Russell Peters and he was like the biggest touring
Speaker 2: comedian in the world, but people didn't even really realize it.
Speaker 2: And I used to always say, Andrew, you're gonna be that,
Speaker 2: You're gonna be the biggest touring comedian in the world, like, and.
Speaker 3: That's what he's doing now.
Speaker 2: But back then I just thought he was smart, funny
Speaker 2: because we used to do guy code together and we
Speaker 2: used to talk on the phone. And I remember one
Speaker 2: time we we we all ended up on a plane
Speaker 2: the LA for the MTV Awards or something like that.
Speaker 2: We all rolled in the car together, me and him
Speaker 2: and Melanie Igalacias, and we like me and Andrew has
Speaker 2: been cool since then.
Speaker 1: You know, when did you actually say Okay, yes, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do book publishing and then with that you ended
Speaker 1: up doing your own you published it yourself.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I put out A Black Privilege with Simon
Speaker 2: and Schuston. Black Privilege had tremendous success, you know, instant bestseller,
Speaker 2: New York Times national bestseller. It was on New York
Speaker 2: Times Bestsellers this for like twenty plus weeks. And so
Speaker 2: they came to me and they wanted me to do
Speaker 2: another book. Immediately, I had started therapy in twenty sixteen. So, Man,
Speaker 2: in the middle of twenty seventeen, late twenty eighteen, I
Speaker 2: was in a total different mind state because I was
Speaker 2: unlearning so many things that I had learned throughout my life,
Speaker 2: and I was dealing with a lot of the traumas
Speaker 2: that I had never ever, you know, dealt with before.
Speaker 2: So I was really in a confused state. And so
Speaker 2: when twenty eighteen came around and they kept pressing me
Speaker 2: for this book, pressing me for this book, I was like, look, man,
Speaker 2: I've been going to therapy. I can share some of
Speaker 2: the journey of that. I can share some of the
Speaker 2: things that you know, I go there and talk about.
Speaker 2: And that's what I did. And then my book agent,
Speaker 2: Jan Miller, had the idea to add my man doctor
Speaker 2: ish major, who gave the clinical correlations to the things
Speaker 2: that I was saying. Like, if you go back and
Speaker 2: you listen to Shook one or read Shook one, you'll
Speaker 2: you'll hear how raw that was, You'll hear you know,
Speaker 2: the mind state that I was in, you know, at
Speaker 2: that time. And then when it came time to do
Speaker 2: my third book, because you know, Hick One was a
Speaker 2: success as well, another bestseller, I was like, yo, I
Speaker 2: don't even want like a big advance, Like I'm not
Speaker 2: looking for like a huge amount of money, because you know,
Speaker 2: every time you put out a book, you know, you
Speaker 2: have success, advances get bigger. I was like, yo, just
Speaker 2: give me, you know, give me what y'all gave me
Speaker 2: for the last one. But I really want to imprint.
Speaker 2: I really want to be able to publish other people's.
Speaker 1: Oh that's how the privileged publishing.
Speaker 2: It literally was like that because you know, for me,
Speaker 2: man like I always say, if whatever your if whatever,
Speaker 2: your build thing only benefits you, it's not big enough.
Speaker 2: So I was just like, yo, let me get an imprint.
Speaker 2: And by the way, all I can say is no, right,
Speaker 2: And it was like, hell, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Did with the Black Effect podcast network, Yeah, did you
Speaker 1: do the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Black Effect was essentially the same thing, because a
Speaker 2: little bit different, only because you know, with radio you
Speaker 2: have contracts and so you know, five years five years
Speaker 2: is like the max deal and I had did a
Speaker 2: couple of five year deals already. Yeah, I did a
Speaker 2: couple of five years. I was up. Yeah, so when
Speaker 2: twenty twenty came, my five years was up. So you know,
Speaker 2: we were in negotiations, and you know the beauty and
Speaker 2: I give, I give a little jewel because it'll never
Speaker 2: happen again, but I'll give a little jewel. I come
Speaker 2: from the era of radio where all of these new
Speaker 2: things that we were doing weren't in our contracts, meaning
Speaker 2: like I had a radio contract, so the only you know, entities,
Speaker 2: I couldn't have conversations with his other radio stations.
Speaker 3: With the world changed, So.
Speaker 2: Now we're doing We've been doing Brand Idiots podcasts for
Speaker 2: eight nine years at that time, right, and there's all
Speaker 2: of these different platforms, the apples and the Spotify's, and
Speaker 2: all of these different people are looking for content, and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, Charlamagne's contract is up right, are coming up?
Speaker 2: So you know, you had different people, you know, reaching
Speaker 2: out to my agents whoever else. And I always had
Speaker 2: this idea because I was looking at just the landscape
Speaker 2: of podcasting and I'm like, man, you know, you got
Speaker 2: Barstool over here, and you got gimblet over here, and
Speaker 2: you know, I was already a part owner of the
Speaker 2: Loud Speaking Network with my man Chris Morrow and Combat Jack.
Speaker 2: But I felt like there was no house for black
Speaker 2: podcasts like you had all of these black podcasts that
Speaker 2: were scattered all over the place, and they had audiences,
Speaker 2: but they might not have been connecting that audience with
Speaker 2: the ad revenue dollars.
Speaker 3: I was just like, Yo, let's I want to launch
Speaker 3: a podcast network.
Speaker 2: I want to start my own you know, podcast network
Speaker 2: called The Black Effect. And it didn't make any sense,
Speaker 2: you know, to go anywhere else. You know, even though
Speaker 2: even though I had conversations, even though even though there
Speaker 2: was other conversations had iHeart is the biggest audio publishing
Speaker 2: you know, company in the world. So when I presented
Speaker 2: my vision the iHeart of what I wanted.
Speaker 3: To do, they were all in.
Speaker 2: And so I'm a fifty one percent majority owner of
Speaker 2: The Black Effect. This isn't a this isn't a vanity label.
Speaker 2: This isn't something you know, Hey, let's just give him
Speaker 2: something and put his name on it. Which, by the way,
Speaker 2: and I want to say this, a lot of those
Speaker 2: other companies, that's what they were trying to do. So
Speaker 2: a lot of those other companies. I never told him,
Speaker 2: like what I wanted to name and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: I just, you know, my agent told them what the
Speaker 2: idea was. And a lot of those other companies wanted
Speaker 2: to do things like that, but they didn't want to
Speaker 2: give me no real ownership. They didn't want to give
Speaker 2: me no real equity. So I could have went other
Speaker 2: places and got like a big ass check and had
Speaker 2: a vanity podcast network, but I would have to run
Speaker 2: everything by them, and they would have to have first
Speaker 2: rider refusal on what I could bring in, Like I
Speaker 2: couldn't be like, yo, let's bring in eating while broke.
Speaker 1: They'd be like, well, who is by the way, shout
Speaker 1: out to you for that? I will. I want to
Speaker 1: say such on a couple of things before we wrapt. Secretly, No,
Speaker 1: I'm secretly scared of the time because your team is
Speaker 1: like assured me that I beat over. One thing I
Speaker 1: wanted to shout out to you, is I did I
Speaker 1: you know, I previously did come from the Nick can
Speaker 1: I worked with Nick Cannon for like ten plus years
Speaker 1: as a partner and another company. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that I'm not hopefully just scratches, but one of
Speaker 1: the things I noticed with being in the industry is
Speaker 1: male dominated. One of the things I love about working
Speaker 1: with the Black Effect Network is that not only is
Speaker 1: it women of color that pretty much run it. I
Speaker 1: don't even know if there's men over there.
Speaker 3: There probably is, but male producers like a king.
Speaker 1: You're right, my producer is a male. But I'm saying
Speaker 1: like the the women are like really running it and
Speaker 1: holding it down. And it's like you could pick up
Speaker 1: the phone. I mean, if I say anything crazy, Dolly
Speaker 1: will call me in three seconds, dang even and I
Speaker 1: immediately know I'm in trouble. But I love how it is.
Speaker 1: But I also love like I always ask people like
Speaker 1: the transparency, So how's how is he really? You know,
Speaker 1: and you take good care of them, and you don't
Speaker 1: see that a lot in the industry. I've seen more
Speaker 1: of the opposite, where the men get the checks and
Speaker 1: the women do the work and then the women don't
Speaker 1: get paid and then it's just like eventually they die off.
Speaker 2: Man, I don't Black Effect is successful because of Dolly Bishop,
Speaker 2: And you know I knew that.
Speaker 3: It's like, man, God tells me things.
Speaker 2: It's like I always do because Dolly's you know, a
Speaker 2: family friend like Dolly, that's my homie before it's anything else,
Speaker 2: and so I always do. Like Rock Nation is like
Speaker 2: a lot of my blueprint. And if you go to
Speaker 2: rock nation. It's the same thing. Like you know, Daz
Speaker 2: is in charge, right there is the president, a woman,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of other women in position of
Speaker 2: power as well. And you know, I just always think
Speaker 2: I always thought that was so dope because like, women
Speaker 2: get things done, they really do. I just did, especially
Speaker 2: black women, women of color, they get things done. And
Speaker 2: so it's like I always knew I'm gonna start this
Speaker 2: entity and I want Dolly to run it, like I
Speaker 2: always knew that.
Speaker 1: Side note, So Dolly during the pandemic, I was doing
Speaker 1: a lot of crazy stuff because my company had shut down.
Speaker 1: And anyways, Dolly had called me and she said, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about getting taken this job or whatever. I'm
Speaker 1: not too sure. I didn't ask her what it was.
Speaker 1: I was like, yo, girl, if you don't have to
Speaker 1: punch a clock, you get a check. They don't like
Speaker 1: watch you every day. What are we even discussing, Like
Speaker 1: we're in the middle of the end times, Like take
Speaker 1: a check, you know. And for whatever reason, did not
Speaker 1: think to ask what the job was. You know, whil'n
Speaker 1: out niked pissed off the world with the jew comments,
Speaker 1: nobody knew what the heck was going on. I did
Speaker 1: not think to ask, so then I don't ask. I
Speaker 1: just like take the job, Like what do we discussed Dolly?
Speaker 1: You I've seen Dolly play every hat and she's she's
Speaker 1: very skilled at you don't have to worry about her integrity.
Speaker 1: She's gonna get the job done whatever whatever reason she
Speaker 1: questioned it. So anyways, I'm trying to do eating while broke.
Speaker 1: On the side, I like pitch my friends, like you know,
Speaker 1: all celebrity friends, like yo, I need you to take
Speaker 1: one for the team. And on one of the texts,
Speaker 1: I had said something about like Dolly and then one
Speaker 1: of them was like Dolly, and I guess in Variety
Speaker 1: they had just announced that she was like the president
Speaker 1: of the Black I had no idea, right, so I
Speaker 1: get the text and I'm like, yo, Dolly, Yo, I
Speaker 1: need to use her name more, and she's like what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? She I was like yo, and
Speaker 1: I sent her like the Variety thing like is this
Speaker 1: the job?
Speaker 3: And I'm like what.
Speaker 1: I was like okay, and she was like, and don't
Speaker 1: use my name everywhere and I was like I'm definitely
Speaker 1: using your name everywhere. And then true story, people always
Speaker 1: ask how I ended up on the Black Effect. I
Speaker 1: had been telling Dolly about eating while broke, so then
Speaker 1: I get a call one day She's like, you're gonna
Speaker 1: kill me. Why would I want to kill you. She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're gon be so mad at me. Oh in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like no. And I had told her like when
Speaker 1: I do eating while broke, like you gotta like we
Speaker 1: gotta put all our hats, all our names, and everyone's
Speaker 1: contacts have to come together, which, by the way, Dolly
Speaker 1: does not like to do. I didn't know that until now.
Speaker 1: But anyway, she calls me, she's like, so I was
Speaker 1: on the phone with Iheartic all you guys, and I
Speaker 1: pitched Eating while broke and I was like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what's the bad thing? She was like, they loved it
Speaker 1: and like Charlotte wants to show. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: what is the bad news? She's like, what's the podcast?
Speaker 1: I said, I don't care. We need distribution, girl, I'll
Speaker 1: take it, Like what do they need from me? And
Speaker 1: my in my garage was like the eating while broke table, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean my neighbors were driving past me like what
Speaker 1: is this girl up to?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I always tell people like God like somehow aligned
Speaker 1: it because my plan for it was so like minute
Speaker 1: and then you know, accidentally by the share like accident,
Speaker 1: you guys end up in this call and everything happened,
Speaker 1: and I think it was beautiful. And every time I
Speaker 1: see you, I always try to make sure you know,
Speaker 1: like you know that I appreciate you took a chance
Speaker 1: on And I remember Dolly coming out to LA like,
Speaker 1: we've never seen you in front of the camera, so
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna watch you do it. And then
Speaker 1: she saw me and she was like, this is you.
Speaker 1: This is I was like what. But uh, I hate
Speaker 1: talking about politics because I have my own insecurities. But
Speaker 1: recently in LA I did interview a congressman and I
Speaker 1: just kind of just was like very transparent about, uh,
Speaker 1: how much I don't know about politics. It's not something
Speaker 1: I like to argue about because I don't know enough facts.
Speaker 1: I don't like to vote because I don't know enough facts.
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I learned in that
Speaker 1: interview is I was talking to my dad and he
Speaker 1: had said something about like how he got all this
Speaker 1: money for like against like you know, the imprison the
Speaker 1: jail system or whatever. My dad had said something like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but how did he spend how is he spending the money?
Speaker 1: And I just didn't think to ask that question. And
Speaker 1: I think, you know, after that interview, after like getting
Speaker 1: that close in person with a congress person and seeing
Speaker 1: like who they are and how they got to where
Speaker 1: they're at, what I'm learning at politics and is that
Speaker 1: government and politics they're they're not necessarily together.
Speaker 3: Well, it depends.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you have I think people forget
Speaker 2: that there's local politics and there's national politics. And I
Speaker 2: think most of the time, most of the time, what's happening
Speaker 2: you know, locally may not be happening nationally. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of things that I see happening, you know, locally,
Speaker 2: places that I wish were you know, happening nationally. Like
Speaker 2: you know, right now, you look at Maryland and you
Speaker 2: look at you know what Wes Moore just did, you know,
Speaker 2: by pardoning I think one hundred and seventy five thousand
Speaker 2: people from misdemeanor marijuana convictions. Now, I think that's a
Speaker 2: great start. I think that you know, they could go further.
Speaker 2: I think that they should pardon if you know, if
Speaker 2: you're in prison right now, in a state where marijuana
Speaker 2: is legal and you're in there for a non violent
Speaker 2: drug offense, I think you should be pardoned, and I
Speaker 2: think your record should be exponged.
Speaker 3: But I think what is doing as a great start.
Speaker 2: But I wish that that was the model for nationally
Speaker 2: because President Biden could do that, and for a person
Speaker 2: like President Biden, you know, who was hands on with
Speaker 2: the eighty six mandatory minimum centizen, who was hands on
Speaker 2: with the eighty eight crack laws, who was hands on
Speaker 2: with the ninety four crime bill, that would be a
Speaker 2: good way to atone, you know, for some of those
Speaker 2: for some of that legislation that you created that put
Speaker 2: so many black and brown people away.
Speaker 3: You could with a wave, with a stroke of a pen.
Speaker 2: You don't need nobody else but you to say, if
Speaker 2: you're a non violent drug offender in prison, you should
Speaker 2: be pardoned, and I think your record should be expunged,
Speaker 2: especially you know marijuana.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And then I remember when marijuana became illegal,
Speaker 1: it was like anyone that had those those that record
Speaker 1: couldn't even get into the wee business. My dad was
Speaker 1: like very upset, like could you imagine, like you perfected
Speaker 1: this career you've spent ten years and now you can't
Speaker 1: even get the life.
Speaker 3: That's right, That's right. I got a license.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we got a dispensary opening in a new New
Speaker 2: Jersey called Hashtoria. It'll we open this ship. You know.
Speaker 2: It's myself, Ray Con the chef, Bakari Sellers and Jed
Speaker 2: and Josh are are two partners who run Hashtoria. So
Speaker 2: we got a dispensary open and know we got a
Speaker 2: dispensary and consumption lone.
Speaker 1: For people that sorry to cut you off on that.
Speaker 1: For people that don't know that much about politics and
Speaker 1: are starting to think about voting, what are the questions
Speaker 1: that you feel they should be asking like politicians are
Speaker 1: looking for in politicians.
Speaker 2: I tell everybody vote their interests. Like you know, it's
Speaker 2: not hard what people are looking for. I don't care
Speaker 2: if you're black. I don't care if you're white. I
Speaker 2: don't care what your gender is, I don't care what
Speaker 2: your sexuality is. Everybody wants money in safety. Life is about,
Speaker 2: you know, doing something that's going to put you in
Speaker 2: a financial position to create some up with mobility, and
Speaker 2: we just all want to feel safe. So I think
Speaker 2: that you should look you know, to the elected officials
Speaker 2: who are creating policies, who are creating legislation, that's putting
Speaker 2: money in people pocket and that's making people safe. Like
Speaker 2: it's really not that hard, it's not that difficult. And
Speaker 2: when you find that person that is doing those things,
Speaker 2: both on them.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I think I like that advice. But I
Speaker 1: also I think in the past year, I don't trust
Speaker 1: as many people. I don't blame you, and I'm more like,
Speaker 1: even if I were to date now, I'm like, what's
Speaker 1: your resume looking like, give me the X numbers? Like
Speaker 1: I don't give it anymore. If you can't give me
Speaker 1: an X number and they say this is then I
Speaker 1: don't want to do it anymore.
Speaker 3: You getting references.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't started dating again yet, but yeah, my
Speaker 1: husband got fired or he's getting fired anyways. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I think like even with Kamala Harris, I heard like
Speaker 1: she was a district attorney that like put a lot
Speaker 1: of people away in her previous Like I'm looking at
Speaker 1: all references, but do you think that matters or no?
Speaker 2: I mean that one was interesting because she was a
Speaker 2: DA doing her job, you know, And I mean that's
Speaker 2: what the laws were you know at that time, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, I've definitely seen her pivot, you know, on
Speaker 2: her stance in regards to marijuana. But that's why I
Speaker 2: think people like her, just like people like President Biden,
Speaker 2: should be advocating heavily and not just advocating. They should
Speaker 2: be doing pardon everybody in America on a federal level
Speaker 2: who has a non violent drug offense, especially for marijuana.
Speaker 2: They have the power to do that.
Speaker 1: They have the power to do it. And why do
Speaker 1: you think they're not doing it? Then?
Speaker 2: I don't. I mean, nobody's pushing them politically, but that
Speaker 2: would be an amazing thing for both of them to
Speaker 2: do because both of them have those reputations, both of
Speaker 2: them have you know, those type of records. So it's like, yo,
Speaker 2: do that say that, Hey, y'all, you're changing with the times. Know,
Speaker 2: just you noticed legislation that y'all that that was created
Speaker 2: hurt a lot of people back then. So it's just
Speaker 2: like that is the way you atone, you know, for
Speaker 2: things like that. So I've been saying, I think that
Speaker 2: would be one of the most fantastic political strategies that
Speaker 2: they could do right now, you know, like during especially
Speaker 2: during an election. Yet like all of this, all of
Speaker 2: this right now is dream selling season. Everybody's pandering. Everybody's saying,
Speaker 2: you know, and that's what's so crazy. Right You're in
Speaker 2: the White House, so you have power that your you know, opponent,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump does not have, So you can actually do things.
Speaker 2: He can only talk about the things he wants to do. So, yes,
Speaker 2: it is dream selling season. Yes, they are pandering to
Speaker 2: us for our vote. And I mean those are the
Speaker 2: things that I think that we should push for them
Speaker 2: to do because I can you imagine that headline. Imagine
Speaker 2: you opened up your phone and you looked on you know,
Speaker 2: Shade Room or whatever whatever it is, you know, and
Speaker 2: or just anything, and it said it said President Biden
Speaker 2: pardons all non violent drug offenders effective immediately or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. Like whoa you know that.
Speaker 1: Would that would get and vote? Okay, it rile everybody up,
Speaker 1: All right, Well, what what more can you share with
Speaker 1: us in regards to get honest or die line? We
Speaker 1: haven't already covered.
Speaker 2: It's just a book that I want everybody to read
Speaker 2: because I want to challenge everybody to be the most
Speaker 2: honest version of themselves possible. We have to stop lying
Speaker 2: on ourselves, and we have to stop volunteering those lives
Speaker 2: to other people. You know. The subtitle is why small
Speaker 2: talk sucks because I hate micro conversations. I think we
Speaker 2: got to, you know, find a way to start having
Speaker 2: big conversations. I think that we have too much, you know,
Speaker 2: unnecessary small talk, and I think that we put small
Speaker 2: talk and the big talk on the same scale, so
Speaker 2: it feels like everything weighs the same when they don't, right,
Speaker 2: they don't. And we don't know how to even have,
Speaker 2: you know, big conversations. We genuinely do not have. We
Speaker 2: don't even know how to discuss big conversations, and that's
Speaker 2: why America can't ever truly solve no problems. You ask
Speaker 2: me why, you know, President Biden doesn't, you know, due
Speaker 2: to non violent pardon the non violent drug offenders, Because
Speaker 2: nobody's really really having that conversation on a big, big
Speaker 2: level like they should. You know, they rather talk about
Speaker 2: transgenders and sports like that ain't affecting nobody's life like
Speaker 2: God blessed them, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's definitely like that whome it's a media. In
Speaker 1: your book, you even talked about like how they trade
Speaker 1: the like this Trump did it like to distract the people.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And so it's just like your
Speaker 2: people like we just don't know how to discuss what
Speaker 2: we should be talking about.
Speaker 3: We make minors majors now.
Speaker 1: Random question, do you think the algorithms play a role
Speaker 1: in dumbing us down?
Speaker 2: One hundred percent? That's why I hate algorithms. That's why
Speaker 2: you have to disconnect. Like I tell people all the time,
Speaker 2: don't be a don't be a surf will be a
Speaker 2: wave because surfers have to ride waves the algorithm depending.
Speaker 2: We all ride the wave of whatever algorithm is presented
Speaker 2: to us instead of actually being our own waves. And
Speaker 2: you know, figuring out, man, what is what is it
Speaker 2: I should actually be thinking about in regards to this situation,
Speaker 2: or should I even be thinking about this situation at all?
Speaker 2: Think about things that come across your timeline every day
Speaker 2: that you wasn't even thinking about, but now you can't
Speaker 2: get it off your motherbucker mind just because they came
Speaker 2: across your timeline. And guess what, it really don't even matter.
Speaker 2: It's something so small and so trivial, But you'll say
Speaker 2: I saw it, I saw them. They were arguing a
Speaker 2: couple of weeks ago about are you safeer around a
Speaker 2: man or a bear? And I mean and people having
Speaker 2: in depth conversations about this shit on park and I'm like,
Speaker 2: where the fuck did this even come from? Why is
Speaker 2: this a thing? It's like, are you safe for around
Speaker 2: a man or a bear? How about we have conversations
Speaker 2: about how.
Speaker 1: These conversations blow up because everyone's so obsessed with viral
Speaker 1: moments and getting the hashtag to get these these numbers up,
Speaker 1: It's become it's like a chicken in the egg situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't be honest with you. I don't know
Speaker 2: what it is.
Speaker 3: I don't know what makes these things go viral.
Speaker 2: I just know that we have to at the end
Speaker 2: of the chapter, every chapter, I say lesson discussion because
Speaker 2: we got to start focusing on macros instead of micros,
Speaker 2: Like why are we having conversations about women?
Speaker 3: What are you safe for around a man or a bear?
Speaker 2: How about we just have conversations about how to make
Speaker 2: women safe period? What the fuck bear has got to
Speaker 2: do with it? It's just it's just silly to me.
Speaker 2: So it's just like, yeah, I want to just get
Speaker 2: us focused on.
Speaker 1: Just the macs real discussions.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Gets to the real facts and keeping it honest.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 3: So please go get it.
Speaker 2: Get honest a dieline while small talk sucks, available everywhere.
Speaker 1: Uh, check out some of your other books if you
Speaker 1: really want to in depth conversation on Who's Charlemane? And
Speaker 1: is this hour definitely isn't gonna cut it the way
Speaker 1: I would like it. I love that. And one last thing,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this and I told Jordan back
Speaker 1: then I was thinking about doing this. I'm actually thinking
Speaker 1: about hugging a tree. I'm that desperate right now.
Speaker 3: Read I Gotta I Gotta chapter in my book.
Speaker 1: Read it. I read it. I already read it, and
Speaker 1: it was like I was like, what five or six minutes?
Speaker 1: You know the tree? He said, the New York trees
Speaker 1: are different from the other trees. I'm still trying to
Speaker 1: find the tree.
Speaker 2: Chapter is called tree Hugged the block, Get connected with nature,
Speaker 2: and we don't have to do another show for you.
Speaker 2: It might have to be called like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to call it dating while desperate, because you're not desperate yet.
Speaker 3: No, first you said you're desperate. Just now you said
Speaker 3: you were desperate, desperate.
Speaker 1: Desperate, for peace, peace, Oh damn fault. Just be clear
Speaker 1: I'm single, because well I'm still married, and integrity wise,
Speaker 1: this sounds really silly.
Speaker 3: What about dating while marriage?
Speaker 1: Integrity wise? I should do that integrity wise. I just
Speaker 1: can't do it while I'm legally like in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like maried. And then even if you go on
Speaker 1: a date, it's like, yeah, I'm married, but I'm separated
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go No.
Speaker 2: A lot of people go to this. I was. I
Speaker 2: just did Pastor Kean's conference last weekend. He has a
Speaker 2: conference called The Crowd Conference, and him and Shannie were
Speaker 2: on stage having this conversation. He felt the same way.
Speaker 2: He felt the same exact way because he was separated.
Speaker 2: But you know, he knew perception wise, dating somebody like
Speaker 2: Shannie O'Neil, he didn't want people to look at her
Speaker 2: away and say, oh, she's dating this married man. But
Speaker 2: he was going through a separation, and so I don't
Speaker 2: if I if I'm fucking this stuff, I'm sorry passed
Speaker 2: the keyon, But I thought I heard him say he
Speaker 2: couldn't live like that. He still had to just he
Speaker 2: had to go connect with he had to go connect
Speaker 2: with Shanni you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Oh, wait, he couldn't live like what he he connected
Speaker 1: with her? Why he was so married? No, No, I don't
Speaker 1: think they He obviously didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just think that he didn't let the fact
Speaker 2: of everybody's perception.
Speaker 1: It's not even about the person.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm getting that wrong.
Speaker 1: No, it's not about the perception. I don't care because
Speaker 1: my husband fully admits he's a he's a superhore. But
Speaker 1: I'm it's not the perception at this point. Trust me,
Speaker 1: He's done enough to blow up any type of secrecy.
Speaker 1: But I'm saying that integrity wise. I know in my
Speaker 1: mind I made a commitment, right, So I'm like, yo,
Speaker 1: let me just.
Speaker 2: But you're going through a separation. If I'm not mistaking,
Speaker 2: patter Keyon said he did want He wanted to wait
Speaker 2: because he didn't want people to think that he was
Speaker 2: that that that he was cheating on his wife and
Speaker 2: Shawnie was messing up a happy home. If I'm getting
Speaker 2: that wrong, I'm sorry, pator Keyon, but it sounds very
Speaker 2: similar to me.
Speaker 3: So I think we should.
Speaker 2: Do dating while I'm married with Colleen and have her
Speaker 2: in here interviewing potential candidates.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's hilarious right to this person, they said.
Speaker 2: Because there's no better reference check than putting somebody out
Speaker 2: there publicly, because not even like, oh no, I know
Speaker 2: him going I dated him. Now that people will be
Speaker 2: hitting you up. They can't hide hilarious dating while I
Speaker 2: married Dolly.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 1: No, no, let's not. But I will say the reason
Speaker 1: why I want to hug the tree and stuff is
Speaker 1: because I do feel. And I was telling Jordan, it's
Speaker 1: the older I get, the more I am driven towards
Speaker 1: happiness or I mean peace over happiness. I could care
Speaker 1: less about a high when I know the low can
Speaker 1: come around the corner. I just give me a flat line.
Speaker 1: And I used to never be like that. So when
Speaker 1: I saw the tree hugging, Dolly made me do grounded
Speaker 1: because I ran away to her house. At one point
Speaker 1: I short it and she was like, take off your shoes,
Speaker 1: go in the yard and walk in the grass. And
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, Dolly, I'm saying I did it,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, maybe we could try a tree huggin.
Speaker 1: I'm starting to get into like meditating. Well I haven't started.
Speaker 1: I've been reading books about meditation. I'm that desperate to
Speaker 1: do those things. Not day. I think I deserve a
Speaker 1: nice break of being single. But we can play the
Speaker 1: dating show if you want.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: You're hilarious. Thank you so much for your time. I bagged, borrowed, stealed,
Speaker 1: harassed your entire team to the point that Dolly called
Speaker 1: me and said, if you want shar just call me
Speaker 1: and asked me when you're ready. And I did it
Speaker 1: and she delivered, and I was literally like, oh, she
Speaker 1: did it.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Thank you first, I get to keep you get to
Speaker 1: keep it all right.
Speaker 4: Peace out, guys.
Speaker 1: For more eating while broke from iHeartRadio and The Black Effect,
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