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Speaker 1: And thank you so much, Governor Hogan for joining us

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: We're very excited to have you. Well, thanks very much

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Speaker 2: for having me. Good morning everybody.

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Speaker 1: It's good to it this takes place at a very

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Speaker 1: somber time, right. We see that we've been following very

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Speaker 1: closely to developments in Israel over the last few days.

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Speaker 1: We know that you have had a warm relationship with

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Speaker 1: the country. You led a trade delegation there. It's been

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Speaker 1: one of Maryland's top trade partners.

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Speaker 2: As well.

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Speaker 1: You signed the executive order prohibiting companies who have boycotted

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Speaker 1: the country from doing business with the state. You've also

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Speaker 1: spoken at the Republican Jewish Coalition. I mean, I want

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Speaker 1: to start and give you an opportunity to kind of

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Speaker 1: chime in on your thoughts on how you see everything

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Speaker 1: unfolding over the last few days.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's I think we've all been glued to the

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Speaker 3: news and trying to get as much information as we can.

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Speaker 2: It's just a horrific situation.

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Speaker 3: The brutality of some of these terrorist acts with innocent

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Speaker 3: you know, women and children and elderly people being dragged

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Speaker 3: off for being killed, is just it's hard to fathom.

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Speaker 3: I think this is a very dangerous time in the

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Speaker 3: Middle East and very vollidle situation.

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Speaker 2: But I think we've got to be unequivocal.

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Speaker 3: I think the US has to stand with Israel against

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Speaker 3: these terrorist acts. They are our greatest ally and I

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Speaker 3: think it's very important for America not to show weakness,

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Speaker 3: for us to make sure that we that our allies

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Speaker 3: know that we're going to stand with them, and that

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Speaker 3: our enemies know that we're going to stand up to them.

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Speaker 3: And so we're watching it very very closely. Our prayers

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Speaker 3: are with the people they're in Israel, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't think this is a time for politics. I

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Speaker 3: think this is a time for us to come together

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Speaker 3: the way they are in Israel and fight a common enemy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Now this will also takes place as our Republican led

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Speaker 1: House is in disarray.

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Speaker 2: We have no leader right now. This is again a

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Speaker 2: very serious.

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Speaker 1: Moment where we I mean, we need a leader in

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Speaker 1: a house at this point. I mean, what do you

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Speaker 1: make of everything that's happened in the House over the

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Speaker 1: last few days as well?

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Speaker 2: It's a train wreck.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's embarrassing, and I think it's terrible

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Speaker 3: for the Republican Party. I think it's terrible for the

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Speaker 3: Congress and for the country, the fact that you can

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Speaker 3: have a handful of extremist kind of quacks off the

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Speaker 3: rails that can put us in this kind of jeopardy.

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Speaker 3: You know, ninety percent of the Republican Caucus supported Kevin McCarthy.

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Speaker 3: You have one guy that's not really a Republican or

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Speaker 3: a conservative that is more interested in, you know, social

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Speaker 3: media and more interested in performative politics than he is

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Speaker 3: in solving any problems.

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Speaker 2: Drives us into a ditch.

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Speaker 3: And it's outrageous and it was a terrible mistake. It

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Speaker 3: would have been a mistake anyway. And then it's in

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Speaker 3: the middle of an election year. We're trying to show

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Speaker 3: that we can govern, and we're showing that we can't.

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Speaker 3: We're proving what everybody hates about Washington. It's nothing but

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Speaker 3: divisiveness and dysfunction that they can't.

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Speaker 2: Get out of their own way.

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Speaker 3: And to make matters worse, we're now in multiple crisises

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Speaker 3: around the world with the war in Ukraine and this

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Speaker 3: war in the Middle East, and we're rudderless.

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Speaker 2: So it's very important that we get this resolve.

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Speaker 3: And I don't have a lot of inside scoop on

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Speaker 3: what's happening. I do talk to some members of Congress

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Speaker 3: and it's still very fluid there. I think having discussions now,

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Speaker 3: we're going to hopefully get to some type of a

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Speaker 3: vote tomorrow, but I don't think there's any guarantee that

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Speaker 3: it's going to get result quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're obviously a big fan of Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan had this great relationship with Tip O'Neil. I mean,

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Speaker 1: is that even possible again in Washington?

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Speaker 3: Well, some people, you know, I'm an old guy, so

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Speaker 3: I say, I look back to the past, but I

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Speaker 3: was a chairman of Youth for Reagan and was a

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Speaker 3: Reagan delegate, and I think, you know, Reagan's not only

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Speaker 3: his doctrine of peace through strength. Reagan did stand up

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Speaker 3: for our allies and stand up to our enemy. So

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Speaker 3: I think Reagan's the Reagan doctrine. Reagan policy is really

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Speaker 3: pertinent right now with the issues we're having around the world,

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Speaker 3: but also his leadership on kind of uniting people and

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Speaker 3: being willing to work across the aisle to find common

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Speaker 3: ground and the compromise. He's a perfect example of you know,

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Speaker 3: he and Tip O'Neil had passionate disagreements.

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Speaker 2: Republicans and Democrats.

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Speaker 3: Had issues that they really disagreed on, but they never

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Speaker 3: were disagreeable, and they sat down together and they tried

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Speaker 3: to hammer out compromise, which I think is what's really

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Speaker 3: missing and lacking in today's environment. It's something I believe

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Speaker 3: very passionately in I was. I was a Republican governor

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Speaker 3: in the bluest state in America. I worked for eight

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Speaker 3: years getting things done with a legislative body that was,

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Speaker 3: you know, seventy five progressive Democrats in both houses, and

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Speaker 3: yet we came together with a whole host of common sense,

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Speaker 3: bipartisan solutions.

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Speaker 2: It's exactly what should be happening in Washington.

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Speaker 3: We're just thirty miles down the road as our state

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Speaker 3: capital of Annapolis, and we sort of showed that it

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Speaker 3: was possible. But this Congress continues to show that they

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Speaker 3: can't work together and can't get things done. And frankly,

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Speaker 3: you know, I started out saying my party is in

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Speaker 3: disarray in Congress, but it's it's really you know, both parties.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is why seventy percent of the people

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Speaker 3: in America are just completely frustrated with Democrats and Republicans.

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Speaker 3: They believe that Washington is broken, that our entire political

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Speaker 3: system is dysfunctional, and what they really want is what

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Speaker 3: we were able to deliver next door in Maryland. They

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Speaker 3: want their elected leaders, regardless of their party affiliation, to

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Speaker 3: sit down and work together on solving the real problems

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Speaker 3: that people are concerned about that are facing the nation

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Speaker 3: and facing all of us.

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Speaker 1: What type of leader do you think the House needs

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Speaker 1: right now from the Republican side, and are any of

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Speaker 1: the candidates that we've been hearing about the best position

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Speaker 1: to fill that role in your opinion.

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Speaker 3: I think we need somebody that can kind of do

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Speaker 3: what I was just talking about.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we've got to find a leader.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not volunteering for the job, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Right now that sounds like the worst job ever.

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Speaker 3: But I think we need somebody that is strong, that can,

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Speaker 3: you know, bring people together, but that's conciliatory, that's willing

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Speaker 3: to work across the aisle. And we're really in a

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Speaker 3: dangerous time. The country's got some serious problems. There are

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Speaker 3: world you know, problems that we've got to deal with.

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Speaker 3: We can't be dysfunctional, So I don't know who that is,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure whether they're you know, we say

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Speaker 3: there are two candidates that may or, I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: if either one of them is going to get the votes.

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Speaker 3: I think it's certainly possible that there could be another

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Speaker 3: dark horse, compromise candidate. I just I don't know what's

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Speaker 3: going to come down, but I think whoever.

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Speaker 2: They pick has got to really.

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Speaker 3: Try to put aside some of the politics and focus

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Speaker 3: on the issues, particularly with the dangers that we have

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Speaker 3: around the world.

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Speaker 2: We can't just be taking shots at the other side.

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Speaker 3: It's like Democrats and Republicans pointing fingers trying to score points.

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Speaker 3: People seem more interested in performative politics, and you know,

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Speaker 3: they'd rather win an argument on Twitter than actually fix

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Speaker 3: a problem, and that's something we got to get away from.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: You've been out front for the better part of the

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Speaker 1: last year year and a half with these type of

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Speaker 1: statements where you're willing to criticize both your own party

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Speaker 1: but then also Democrats as well.

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Speaker 3: I think I've been doing that since I first got

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Speaker 3: involved in politics and ran for governor in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: not just a year and a half.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I've been pretty outspoken, and I usually call

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Speaker 2: him like I see him.

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Speaker 3: I mean, sometimes I'll take on when I think, when

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Speaker 3: I think Democrat policy Democrat leaders are in the wrong,

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Speaker 3: I say so. When I think the Republican leaders are

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Speaker 3: in the wrong, I say so. And I think I

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Speaker 3: think that's probably why people appreciate me, whether they agree

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Speaker 3: with me or not. They know where I'm coming from,

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Speaker 3: and they know that I'm going to, you know, say

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Speaker 3: exactly what I think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and now your father is sticking with the House.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was famously he gave he delivered the

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Speaker 1: speech about impeaching Nixon. Yeah, it's Republican to do. So

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Speaker 1: how does that guide you in this moment?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was, I was in high school at the time.

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Speaker 3: I learned a lot about integrity and public service from

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Speaker 3: my dad. Was he was a Republican on the House

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Speaker 3: Judiciary Committee.

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Speaker 2: This is not when we're coming up this spring. It'll

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Speaker 2: be fifty years.

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Speaker 3: It's hard to believe, you know, that's that's how long

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Speaker 3: ago it is. But there it's very relevant today given

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Speaker 3: some of the concerns that we have. We don't have

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Speaker 3: a lot of leaders like that anymore.

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Speaker 2: We need some.

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Speaker 3: But my dad was Nixon, a supporter, campaigned with him,

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Speaker 3: thought he was doing a good job as president, fought

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Speaker 3: back when he thought the Democrats were being partisan, or

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Speaker 3: he fought to make sure that they could provide for

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Speaker 3: the defense, that they could cross examine witnesses. But after

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Speaker 3: seeing the evidence, he made the decision and came out

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Speaker 3: with a speech that said president was guilty of impeachable

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Speaker 3: offenses and should be removed from office.

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Speaker 2: And shortly after that President resigned.

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Speaker 3: He famously said, you know, in a very passionate speech,

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Speaker 3: no man is above the law, not even the President

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Speaker 3: of the United States. And we just stand for the

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Speaker 3: rule of law and not the common frailties of men.

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Speaker 1: How often are you thinking about him these days?

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Speaker 2: And at that.

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Speaker 3: Moment, I mean that times have changed so dramatically since then,

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Speaker 3: both into Congress and what is acceptable and what's not.

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Speaker 3: I mean this, if you look it was a terrible

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Speaker 3: moment in time for our country and.

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Speaker 2: For the Republican Party. But if you look at some.

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Speaker 3: Of the things happening today, was that pales by comparison.

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Speaker 3: It was like, some of the things we're seeing out

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Speaker 3: much are further, far worse than the stuff we saw

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Speaker 3: on Watergate. Not to condone that, but you know, my

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Speaker 3: dad stood up, and you know he was ostracized by

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Speaker 3: the party, by the Nixon administration, by his colleagues in

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Speaker 3: Congress and friends and supporters, But all these years later,

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Speaker 3: it's what he's most finally remembered for. So definitely had

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Speaker 3: an impact on me, saying exactly what I think and

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Speaker 3: not caring about the political consequences.

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Speaker 1: Now, you also cheered the Republican Governors Association. Are you

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Speaker 1: still in touch with a lot of those folks that

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Speaker 1: you served with? And what are some of the pressing

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Speaker 1: issues for voters right now? And can Republicans even coalse

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Speaker 1: around a simple message to message to voters with thirteen

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Speaker 1: months to go?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, actually I was chairman of the National Governor's Association,

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Speaker 3: which was all the governors. So I led all the

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Speaker 3: Republican and Democratic governors through COVID. You know, I had

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Speaker 3: a chairs initiative. When you become chairman of the National

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Speaker 3: Governors Association, had a support of all fifty governors.

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Speaker 2: I really tried to.

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Speaker 3: Bring people together in that role, and my initiative was

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Speaker 3: rebuilding America's infrastructure. I got all fifty governors to agree

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Speaker 3: on a set of principles, which every bit of it

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Speaker 3: got included in the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill. I brought people

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Speaker 3: together to try to help bring about compromise there and

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Speaker 3: get that done. And then COVID broke out, So I

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Speaker 3: led I don't know, fifty some zooms with all of

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Speaker 3: America's governors and many of them with the President, vice president,

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Speaker 3: whole Coronavirus Task Force, all the cabinet members. It was

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Speaker 3: we went from normally governors maybe to see each other

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Speaker 3: four times a year at various conferences we may talk

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Speaker 3: about a regional issue or you know, touch base with another.

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Speaker 2: This was multiple times a week, all the governors talking together.

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Speaker 3: So I think the National Governor Association is a great

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Speaker 3: ample also of there is a lot of bipartisanship. You

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Speaker 3: don't see red and blue jerseys. We don't suit up

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Speaker 3: and try to attack each other every day. Where governors

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Speaker 3: are you know CEOs who have to govern. And there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of sharing of best practices like hey, guv,

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Speaker 3: how are you dealing with this problem in your state

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Speaker 3: or are you experiencing this or how did this work?

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Speaker 3: Or you know, here's something that's worked for us, so

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Speaker 3: you might want to try it wasn't really typically you.

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Speaker 2: Know, much fighting going on between the governors. It was

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Speaker 2: very refreshing.

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Speaker 3: So I think governors are great training ground for the

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Speaker 3: presidency because they actually run a government and they're in

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Speaker 3: an executive capacity and a smaller, you know capacity, but

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Speaker 3: in doing the same type of job. I also think

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Speaker 3: they're an example for Congress about hey, why don't we

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Speaker 3: put down the all the rhetoric and just govern. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: I am still in touch with many of my former colleagues,

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Speaker 3: and six of them are running for president on the

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Speaker 3: Republican side.

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Speaker 2: So you know, I talked to a lot of people,

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Speaker 2: giving all the advice I.

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Speaker 3: Can, but current and former governors I still keep a

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Speaker 3: pretty good relationship with on both sides of the isle,

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Speaker 3: and I continue to.

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Speaker 2: You know, talk with them.

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Speaker 3: And I'm willing to give anybody, you know, my input

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Speaker 3: and advice whenever they ask for it.

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Speaker 1: We'll stick a pin in that twenty twenty four question,

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Speaker 1: come back back to it.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: President Biden was able to deliver a bipartisan infrastructure bill,

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Speaker 1: but he's not getting credit at all from American voters

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Speaker 1: on it. As someone who managed the state, why do

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Speaker 1: you think.

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Speaker 2: That is well. I was very involved in that.

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Speaker 3: So Number one, the Biden administration, you know, they were

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Speaker 3: trying to add in to build back better, which was

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Speaker 3: four trillion dollars of social spending.

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Speaker 2: Nothing that didn't happen.

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Speaker 3: The Republicans only wanted to spend four or five hundred

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Speaker 3: billion on for five hundred million on just roads and bridges,

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Speaker 3: billion for five hundred billion. We came up with a

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Speaker 3: compromise about one point two million, where we include all

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Speaker 3: infrastructure but not the social spending. And I held a

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Speaker 3: summit at the Governor's mansion in Annapolis, kind of unprecedented.

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Speaker 3: I got Republican and Democratic governors who had worked with

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Speaker 3: me on the Governor's initiative and all agreed to Republican

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Speaker 3: Democratic senators and congressmen, and we locked them in the

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Speaker 3: room and fed them Baryland crabcakes and alcohol, and we

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Speaker 3: didn't let them out until we came up with an agreement.

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Speaker 3: So we walked out of the Governor's mansion with an

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Speaker 3: agreement on a definition of what infrastructure was and wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Republicans came, you know, came about.

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Speaker 3: Three times almost what they were talking about, and we

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Speaker 3: included things like you know, clean energies and water and treatment,

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Speaker 3: sewer treatment systems, and protecting the grid, and cybersecurity and

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Speaker 3: rural broadband. That's all infrastructure type of things. Democrats agreed,

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Speaker 3: let's come back and fight about social spending later. So then,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm involved with a group called No Labels,

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Speaker 3: the Problem Solvers Caucus, which is a centrist.

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Speaker 2: In the middle.

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Speaker 3: They were all there, thirty three Democrats, thirty three Republicans.

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Speaker 2: They really helped, you know, get that thing done.

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Speaker 3: I think the reason why we're not getting a lot

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Speaker 3: of credit is the people still don't still don't have

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Speaker 3: the money, so they're they're taking forever to write the

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Speaker 3: rags and to get the money out. Most of the

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Speaker 3: states already had long list of infrastructure projects, and this

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Speaker 3: was helping them backfill and fund some of that. Some

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Speaker 3: of it's trickling out, some of it it still isn't

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Speaker 3: and people just haven't seen the positive impacts of it yet,

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Speaker 3: because you know, it takes a while to build infrastructure, and.

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Speaker 2: We haven't nothing's gotten built yet.

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Speaker 1: Did it fall short in any way based off of

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Speaker 1: your purview?

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Speaker 2: You know, I think it's I think it's really important.

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Speaker 3: We were falling behind and our America's crumbling infrastructure was

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Speaker 3: a huge problem, and I give the president credit for

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Speaker 3: getting that done, and I appreciate the people on both

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Speaker 3: sides that pushed it.

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Speaker 2: It really, truly is a.

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Speaker 3: Bipartisan bill, one of the few examples of Congress coming

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Speaker 3: together in a bipartisan way to actually accomplish something's it

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Speaker 3: should have been, Hey, let's what's the next thing we

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Speaker 3: can come on together, But we haven't really found that.

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Speaker 1: And we mentioned twenty twenty four, of course in the

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Speaker 1: debate stage. What's your thought about the first two debates,

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Speaker 1: especially that last went at the Reagan Presidential Library.

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Speaker 3: I don't think Reagan would elected much it was Look,

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Speaker 3: I think the big problem here, the overarching problem, is that,

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Speaker 3: in my opinion, you know, the Republican Party needs to

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Speaker 3: move on from Donald Trump. I think he's the worst

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Speaker 3: thing to happen to the Republican Party into the country.

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Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, I think.

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Speaker 3: He's disqualified himself from being president. I don't think he's

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Speaker 3: a nominee that can win the election. And I keep

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Speaker 3: being hopeful that some other Republican can rise up and

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Speaker 3: become the alternative that could win.

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Speaker 2: And it hasn't happened.

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Speaker 3: Yet you know, we're even though he doesn't show up

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Speaker 3: for the debates, he still sucks all the oxygen out

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Speaker 3: of the room. And so all these distractions politically, you know,

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Speaker 3: Trump's legal trials is.

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Speaker 2: Like court TV. Now we're not following.

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Speaker 3: There are really good candidates on the stage talking about

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Speaker 3: issues that people care about, but no one cares because

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Speaker 3: all we talk about is Trump and the stupid speaker

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Speaker 3: fight in Washington. All of that stuff is distracting from

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Speaker 3: the very important job of deciding who the next president

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Speaker 3: is going to be. And you know, quite frankly, seventy

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Speaker 3: percent of the people in America do not want Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump or Joe Biden to be president. And yet somehow

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Speaker 3: we find ourselves at this moment in time with the frustrating.

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Speaker 2: Situation of that might be our choice.

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Speaker 3: And I'm still hopeful that perhaps a Republican can stand

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Speaker 3: up and replace Trump, because we can't continue to double

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Speaker 3: down on failure. We've lost the last three elections in

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Speaker 3: a row because of Trump, and I frankly think the

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Speaker 3: Democrats ought to pick a stronger nominee than Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're very concerned.

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Speaker 3: Fifty nine percent of Democratic primary voters don't want Biden.

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Speaker 3: Seventy some percent of the people in America think that

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Speaker 3: he's too old and not capable of doing another term.

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Speaker 2: And so I think.

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Speaker 3: Most people doesn't look like it's happening. But I think

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Speaker 3: they'd like to see two new choices from the two parties,

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Speaker 3: and I think they say, are these the two best

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Speaker 3: people in America we can come up with to offer

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Speaker 3: the voters in next November.

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Speaker 1: How did we get here though, right, Because in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty there was supposed to be some soul searching after November,

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Speaker 1: then more soul searching after January sixth, them more soul

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Speaker 1: searching after the twenty twenty two midtimes, and yet Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump has a fifty point.

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Speaker 2: Lead on the rest of the field.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very frustrating to me because I've been probably

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Speaker 3: the strongest Trump critic from the time he came down

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Speaker 3: in the Republican Party as an elected state leader, from

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Speaker 3: the time he came down the escalator and stood up

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Speaker 3: to him on a number of issues.

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Speaker 2: And I've been.

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Speaker 3: Saying forever that we were eventually going to move away.

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Speaker 3: I felt like I was on a lifeer app by

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Speaker 3: myself and this, you know, Trump Titanic was going by, Well,

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Speaker 3: a lot of people aren't jumping off the boat. We

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Speaker 3: do need a bigger life rap, but it's not happening

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Speaker 3: fast enough. So now Trump went from about ninety percent

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Speaker 3: of you know, Republican primary.

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Speaker 2: Voters to about fifty that's a good that's positive.

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Speaker 3: But the fact that there are still that many people

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Speaker 3: after everything that's happened, that are behind them, it's frustrating.

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Speaker 3: But I would just I'm still I'm a hopeful person,

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Speaker 3: and we do have some great alternatives, and I'm just

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Speaker 3: hopeful that you know, between now when the first when

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Speaker 3: you keep say Iowa, New Hampshire, you worried about six

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Speaker 3: months away from the real action, and that's an eternity

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Speaker 3: in politics in any political year, and I think you

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Speaker 3: know this year at twenty twenty four, I can't tell

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Speaker 3: you what's going to happen. I can tell you it's

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Speaker 3: going to be the most interesting and wild ride we've

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Speaker 3: ever seen. And what we're what we think is going

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Speaker 3: to happen today may not be what we're thinking in

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Speaker 3: the spring.

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Speaker 2: So we're by next fall, you.

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Speaker 1: Think a dark horse could emerge, someone who isn't on

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Speaker 1: the debate stage.

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Speaker 2: One the stage right now.

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Speaker 3: I think it's hard if you know the primary, I

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Speaker 3: think we just passed the first deadline. October ninth was

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Speaker 3: the Nevada filing deadline. A number of others are coming

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Speaker 3: up pretty quickly. So there was all this talk about,

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Speaker 3: you know what, you know, a couple of my cubernatorial friends,

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Speaker 3: Glenn Yunkin or Ryan Camp get in the race. That's

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Speaker 3: not going to happen. I mean, they've missed the deadlines already,

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Speaker 3: and I think you know one more. Having seven governors

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Speaker 3: or twelve candidates running isn't going to make a difference.

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Speaker 3: But I'm hoping one of the we I think we

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Speaker 3: need to shrink the field. We need to arrive at

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Speaker 3: a couple of strong candidates, so we're not splitting that

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Speaker 3: fifty percent among ten or eleven people. And I can't

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Speaker 3: tell you who that's going to be, but I think

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Speaker 3: that we ought to.

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Speaker 2: We need to get some people out of the race.

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Speaker 2: Will Hurd, who I.

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Speaker 3: Really respect, but what his campaign wasn't getting a lot

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Speaker 3: of attention and he wasn't getting traction. I think he

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Speaker 3: made the right decision and getting out and he got

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Speaker 3: behind Nicky.

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Speaker 2: Haley, who I think has been of late.

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Speaker 3: Really catching a little fire and getting some traction, So

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Speaker 3: I think we'll probably see more of that in the

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Speaker 3: coming weeks and months.

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Speaker 1: Has she been the strongest contender to Trump in your

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Speaker 1: opinion so far?

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's there's no real standout, like so

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Speaker 3: DeSantis is. I think the you know, challenging in Iowa,

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Speaker 3: Chris Christie is making a difference in challenging, the only

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Speaker 3: one taking Trump head on. He's doing great in New Hampshire. Uh.

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Speaker 3: And Nicki Haley's you know, moving up and doing very

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Speaker 3: well and still still not winning her home state of

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Speaker 3: South Carolina. I thought Nikki had a great first debate,

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Speaker 3: not so great on the second debate.

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Speaker 2: She got a little bit of a bump, but then.

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Speaker 3: Didn't really keep moving up, and unfortunately we still have Trump.

444
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:43,640
Speaker 2: You just wiping everybody out. And now you mentioned no labels.

445
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,159
Speaker 1: Obviously it's been generating a lot of buzz as well.

446
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, no label seems to be a reaction to,

447
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,159
Speaker 1: as you mentioned, the fact that Americans are showing in

448
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:55,760
Speaker 1: surveys that they have no appetite for rematch.

449
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: But what does no label stand for?

450
00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,920
Speaker 1: What would a candidate that no label candidate put forth

451
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 1: as a platform.

452
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, No Labels is an organization that's

453
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,639
Speaker 3: focused on bipartisanship on everything that I leave in and

454
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 3: stand for everything we've been talking about here this morning.

455
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 2: They've been around for thirteen years. They helped form.

456
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 3: The Problem Solver's Caucus, which I worked with to try

457
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: to get infrastructure done. They're also the ones that were

458
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 3: trying to take us back from the brink on this

459
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 3: budget crisis. They're the ones that have grown ups in

460
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 3: the room on this trying to fix.

461
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 2: The speaker battle.

462
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 3: So it was started by some Clinton administration officials. It

463
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 3: is bipartisan, a lot of Republicans and Democrats involved. They're

464
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 3: half Democrats, half Republicans, members of the Problem Solvers thirty

465
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 3: two of each, about ten members of the Senate they

466
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:45,160
Speaker 3: work together with. So it's been about it wasn't about

467
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 3: this new thing that everybody's focused on.

468
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: A lot of people didn't know about it or didn't

469
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 2: hear about it.

470
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 3: But I got involved about three years ago when I

471
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,359
Speaker 3: finished my chairmanship of the National Governors Association. They asked

472
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 3: me if I would work with the group as an

473
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:04,600
Speaker 3: honorary by honorary co chairman with Joe Lieberman, who was

474
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,639
Speaker 3: a founding chairman of the organization, and I agreed to.

475
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 3: We've been working through those, bringing people together and having

476
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 3: some success. The new thing is because the America is

477
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 3: so divided, because seventy percent don't want Biden or Trump,

478
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 3: because our politics are so broken, that they're talking about

479
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 3: kind of a in case of emergency break glass, you know,

480
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 3: insurance policy to say if America does not want A

481
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 3: or B, that perhaps they will at least give the

482
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 3: opportunity by getting access to the ballot to give a C.

483
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,639
Speaker 3: And they're talking about not forming a third party. They

484
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: have no interest in that. They're talking about the potential

485
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 3: of a unity ticket where a Republican and a Democrat say,

486
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 3: you know, they have the courage to put the country

487
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: over party and say, for the good of the country,

488
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 3: we're going to put up a ticket and run.

489
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,359
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's going to happen.

490
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 3: I'm still hopeful that Biden and Trump won't be the nominees,

491
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: and that would be my prefer But there's no question

492
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 3: that people are interested in this that Democrats have reacted so,

493
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 3: I mean, they're panicked over this idea because sixty eight

494
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 3: percent of the people in the country said they would

495
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 3: like to see a third alternative, and forty four percent

496
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 3: of the people in the country are now independent, far

497
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: larger than the Democratic Party or the Republican Party. And

498
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,120
Speaker 3: if ever there was a time, I mean, I get

499
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 3: the whole skepticism that's never happened.

500
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 2: You know, don't have the infrastructure.

501
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 3: If ever there was a time for it to work,

502
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: it would be now where people are so disgusted with

503
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 3: both parties and both candidates.

504
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: And now rfk Junior yesterday he declared that he's going

505
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: to run as an independent.

506
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 2: Cornel West did as well.

507
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: One of the criticisms I think President Biden, like just

508
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,399
Speaker 1: last week, said it would be a mistake for No

509
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 1: Labels to move forward with a candidate. Does that remove

510
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: some of that criticism? Then for No Labels to put

511
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 1: forth a candidate with West and Kennedy Junior.

512
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: In there, it's funny.

513
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 3: I think it's just more and more confusing. I don't

514
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: know how it's going to shake out, but it's It

515
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 3: was funny that Cornell West, who obviously was drawing one

516
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 3: hundred percent of his votes from Biden, and he was

517
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 3: at four or five percent, that they didn't really go

518
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 3: after him. And Kennedy, who's a lifelong Democrat with a

519
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,719
Speaker 3: you know, his name is like Royalty in the Democratic Party,

520
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 3: they didn't really go after him.

521
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 2: Uh.

522
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 3: No Labels was the one they were they were trying

523
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 3: to blow up. And they're spending millions of dollars of

524
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 3: dark money to try to undermine this citizen group from

525
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,439
Speaker 3: trying to get people potentially more choices. You got to

526
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: wonder why, and you know, I would say, you know,

527
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 3: obviously they're taking it much more seriously than the other two.

528
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 3: But even though Kennedy is a Democrat, uh, and so

529
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 3: is Cornell West that you know, they're they're more concerned

530
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 3: about No Labels. They thought was going to be a

531
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 3: Democrat at the top of the ticket. I think they

532
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 3: were concerned about Joe Manchin. I think if you have

533
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 3: all these Democrats running against the president but not you know,

534
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 3: I think Kennedy decided he couldn't get the Democratic Party

535
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 3: was not going to have a part a competitive primary,

536
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 3: so he went outside to try to do that. But

537
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 3: you know, he's also got some He's not the third

538
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 3: party Candada Americas looking for, in my opinion, and he's

539
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 3: got some kind of crazy ideas. But to refute the

540
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 3: Democrats claim, the polls are already shown that he's taken

541
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: more from Trump than from Biden. And the last time

542
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 3: we had a successful candidate was Ross Burow, who was Republican,

543
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: took away from Bush, not Clinton. So I think there's

544
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 3: a lot of hype, a lot of charges out there,

545
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,400
Speaker 3: and a lot of kind of attacks that nobody knows

546
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 3: if any of us any true, No one has any

547
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: idea what's going to happen next year.

548
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Got two more questions. You mentioned dark money, no Labels

549
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: is pretty opaque too. Can you tell us a little

550
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: bit about how he gets his donors why it doesn't

551
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: release the donor lists.

552
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 3: Well, it's a text EXE organization, just like all the

553
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 3: others or thousands of C four's and five twenty sevens

554
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 3: in Washington, including all the ones that are attacking them.

555
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: They're not a party and it's not a candidate, so

556
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 3: they don't file the same disclosures that if in fact

557
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 3: they did have a candidate.

558
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: They don't want to form a party.

559
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: But if they're back in the candidate, obviously they have

560
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 3: to set up new committees and follow all the same rules.

561
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,360
Speaker 2: But it's really hypocritical that the people.

562
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 3: Who keep talking about defending democracy are attacking democracy, and

563
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 3: the people who are attacking their labels as dark money

564
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 3: are spending dark money to do so, because they're all

565
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,120
Speaker 3: the same kind of organizations.

566
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 2: It's the third way is one that comes to mind.

567
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: And in March when you pinned your op ed saying

568
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 1: that you weren't going to run, right, the dynamics were

569
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 1: much different at the time. Trump had a narrow elite

570
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: narrower lead over the field. The Santus had yet to declare,

571
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: and even some hypothetical polls had him leading, Are you

572
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: changing your mind at all?

573
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: Will you run for president?

574
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: You know, back in March, I made the tough decision

575
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: because you know, I left us you know, I think

576
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: the top governor in America in a very hostile environment

577
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 3: where it was difficult to get things done, but we did.

578
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 3: I think I had to be had proven the best

579
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 3: ability to win swing voters independence and Democrats and self Republicans.

580
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: I thought it was a very difficult path through the Republican.

581
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: Primary, and I didn't want to have.

582
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 3: A repeat of twenty sixteen where we had a multi

583
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 3: car pile up. And that's exactly what is happening. Eleven candidates.

584
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 3: If there were one strong candidate, they might be at

585
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 3: fifty percent right now, but they're not. There's ten, or

586
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 3: eleven or twelve. So it's exactly what I was afraid

587
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 3: was going to happen is happening. I'm very glad I

588
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 3: made that decision, even though it was a hard one

589
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 3: to make, I think it was the right one for

590
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: the right reason. My goal is to get someone other

591
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 3: than Donald Trump, and I didn't think I was going

592
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 3: to be able to contribute to that by just being

593
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 3: in there with all these other guys. I think I'd

594
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 3: be at the same spot, all the rest of them,

595
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 3: in the single digits, somewhere struggling for attention. I said

596
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: at that time that I just never ruled out. I

597
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: didn't close the door on this other thing. It's not

598
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 3: something I'm pursuing. It's not something i'm working toward. It's

599
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 3: not something I've decided to do. It's not why I

600
00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 3: was involved in no labels. But if the country is

601
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 3: in that bad of shape next spring, and those are

602
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: the two nominees, and it looks like there's a path,

603
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: I would have no interest in being a spoiler. I

604
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 3: don't want to run a race to nibble around the edges.

605
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: If I thought there was a path to success to

606
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 3: win the race, and I just said, I wouldn't shut

607
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: the door to that opportunity. How are you feeling now,

608
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 3: I'm feeling more confused than ever.

609
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: It sounds like you may be leaning towards it.

610
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 2: No, I don't know about that. Don't be pushing me now,

611
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 2: come on.

612
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you just tipped off a bunch of metrics

613
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: swing the blue state getting elected, dealing with a myriad

614
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: of issues that are Michael cosin to what's facing the country,

615
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: and then again the heroism that we spoke about earlier

616
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: with your father.

617
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,959
Speaker 2: I just don't understand what the hesitation would be.

618
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: Well again, I'm trying to beat Donald Trump in a primary,

619
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: and I'm still hopeful that the Democrats can come up

620
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: with somebody other than Joe Biden, and we still have

621
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: a long way to see.

622
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: We won't know that until Super Tuesday next March.

623
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 3: In the meantime, I'm just continuing to try to be

624
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 3: a voice of reason. And I don't have I don't

625
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: have a need to be an elective office myself, but

626
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: I do care very deeply about getting the Republican Party

627
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: back on track, and I care very deeply about the

628
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 3: country being in a really difficult spot right now.

629
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: So however I can serve I'm still trying to.

630
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 3: Figure that out, but I'm not walking away and I'm

631
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: not willing to give up, and it's just just too important.

632
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: With that, I think we'll wrap up.

633
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Thank you very much, and next

634
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: time we wi a debate about all time defenses Chicago

635
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: Bears versus two thousand Baltimore Ravens.

636
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, end with the Ravens and nice