1 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: Pushkin, I think that Hitler is appreciably nearer shooting us, 2 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: and therefore I think we're appreciably nearer replying. 3 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,760 Speaker 2: It's the beginning of the Sycamore War. Just before the 4 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: United States joins the fight. The journalist named Dorothy Thompson 5 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: is speaking to a British television crew. She's standing behind 6 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,839 Speaker 2: a dark wood table, wearing a nipped way suit and blouse, 7 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 2: one hand perched in her pocket, perfect posture, shoulder length 8 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: hair with a strand of premature white. You can see 9 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: her thinking while she's talking. 10 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: We're very much interested in the part East, We're interested 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: in the Pacific, and we're interested in the Atlantic. 12 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 2: Thompson was a foreign cars despondent in the nineteen twenties Vienna, Berlin, Dublin, Paris. 13 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 2: This is the heyday of newspapers. Every paper of consequence 14 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: across the Western world had somewhere in Europe, and they 15 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: all knew each other, drank together, descended on war zones together, 16 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 2: and Dorothy Thompson was the star. 17 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: And as this war becomes more and more becomes more 18 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: and more clear that this war is going to be 19 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: a world war, we come nearer to being actively involved. 20 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: Because these were different times. There was always discussion of 21 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,760 Speaker 2: Thompson's physical beauty, the flawless skin, her radiance. One of 22 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: her nicknames was the blue eyed Tornado. She was brilliant, indefatigable, 23 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: unshakably self assured, and that voice. 24 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: But after all, the ideological basis of this war was 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: very well set by mister Nevill Chamberlain at the very 26 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: beginning of it when he said, if I remember correctly, 27 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 1: if I should think that one man and one nation 28 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: should wish to dominate the world, I should think he 29 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: ought to be stopped. That's the way America feels about. 30 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: It, too. 31 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Remember that voice. Over the course of the next eight episodes, 32 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 2: you're going to hear the voices of a lot of 33 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: people from that same era, the long years before the 34 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 2: Second World War, some more powerful than Dorothy Thompson, more 35 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: self important, more strident, but none who saw the world 36 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: so clearly. Dorothy Thompson is our north star. One of 37 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 2: my strongest childhood memories was the nineteen seventy six Olympics 38 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: in Montreal, my homeland's first Olympic Games. I was a kid. 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: My family didn't have a television, but we rented one 40 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 2: just for the occasion two rabbit ears on top of 41 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: a grainy black and white set. We put the TV 42 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: in the fireplace because there was no other place for it, 43 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: and I watched everything. The Romanian Nadya Komenitch bewitching the world. 44 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: In gymnastics, my running hero John Walker powering away around 45 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: the final curve to win the men's fifteen hundred meters. 46 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: I still get nervous thinking about that race, Lassie Van's 47 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,399 Speaker 2: improbable double in the five thousand meters and the ten 48 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: thousand meters. Alberto want to rena Cornelia ender don Qurey 49 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: on the women's forby one hundred freestyle relay, maybe the 50 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 2: greatest swimming race ever. I was a little kid and 51 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 2: I fell in love with the Olympics, and I've been 52 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 2: in love ever since. This summer in Paris, I will 53 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: be glued to my television again, and this thing that 54 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: I love and that so many millions of people around 55 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: the world love, would not exist if the Olympics had 56 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: not been held in nineteen thirty six in Adolf Hitler's Germany. 57 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: The modern Olympics started in eighteen ninety six, and if 58 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 2: you've gone to any of those early games, you'd think 59 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: you were at some kind of side show. They never 60 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: really took off. Forty six countries showed up for the 61 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty eight Games, Thirty seven showed up with the 62 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: next Games. Only one country applied to hosts the nineteen 63 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 2: thirty two Games. No one else wanted it. The Olympic 64 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 2: dream was fading, but then came Berlin. It was the 65 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: Nazis who gave us the Olympics we have today. They 66 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: were really really good at putting on a big show. 67 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: Berlin was the first Olympics to be televised, the first 68 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 2: to have a torch relay at the opening ceremony, the 69 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 2: first to create a genuine international star Jesse Owens, the 70 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: first to understand that the Games were a spectacle. 71 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 4: At first, Hitler himself was opposed to the Olympics. 72 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: The historian David Walachinski. 73 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 4: It didn't interest in him. It was an international event 74 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 4: people from all over. But Joseph Gerbels said, no, we 75 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 4: can use this. This will be good propaganda for us, 76 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 4: and so they began promoting the Olympics. 77 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 2: Hitler used the Games to demonstrate his theories of Aryan supremacy, 78 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: to rally the German people to give legitimacy to the 79 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: band of thugs he had gathered about him to make 80 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: the case that Germany was a true world power, and 81 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: the United States went along with all of it. Why 82 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 2: that's the story of Hitler's Olympics. H I'm Malcolm Gladwell. 83 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: You're listening to Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked 84 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: and misunderstood. Welcome to Hitler's Olympics, the story of how 85 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: we ended up with the Nazi Olympics. Over the next 86 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 2: eight weeks, my colleague bend At A. F. Haffrey and 87 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 2: I will tell the story of the games behind the 88 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: greatest of all Olympic Games. Not who won what, not 89 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: what's stirring? Come from behind, burst of effort led to 90 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 2: an improbable victory. Instead, I want to talk about the 91 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: furious machinations leading up to the Olympics and the genuinely 92 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: difficult moral questions that surrounded the Berlin Games, questions that 93 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: I think we're still trying to make sense of. And 94 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 2: along the way, we're going to introduce you to an 95 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: oddcast of characters, people who tried and largely failed to 96 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 2: resolve those questions. Heroes and villains, the clear eyed and 97 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: the deluded, the forgotten, and the misunderstood. But we have 98 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 2: to begin with the person who may have seen the 99 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: problem of nineteen thirty six more clearly than anyone else. 100 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 2: Dorothy Thompson. Thompson was born in western New York in 101 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety three, just outside of Buffalo. Her mother died 102 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 2: when she was Her father was a Methodist minister, but 103 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: a bad one who drifted from church to church. Her 104 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: childhood was hand in mouth. She hated her stepmother. Somehow, 105 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 2: she ended up at Syracuse University at a time when 106 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 2: not a lot of women were going to college. After graduation, 107 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 2: she threw herself into the women's suffrage movement, the great 108 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 2: social cause of progressives of that generation. 109 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: She was committed, passionate advocate of women getting the vote, 110 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 3: and when they got the vote in nineteen twenty, soon 111 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 3: afterwards she wanted to pursue a career as a journalist. 112 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: The historian Sarah church Well, she sailed for Europe, didn't 113 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 2: have anything lined up in advance. She just packed up 114 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: her bags one day and left. 115 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 3: Suddenly, here she is exposed to this whole host of 116 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 3: international and global projects and initiatives. 117 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 2: She makes her mark right away, goes to Ireland, tracks 118 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: down a leader of the Irish independence movement and gets 119 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 2: the last interview with him before he dies of a 120 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: hunger strike. Next, she goes to Vienna, where she convinces 121 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: the Philadelphia Public Ledger to highire her as a correspondent. 122 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 2: Dorothy learns German gets promoted to Berlin bureau chief. Then 123 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: comes another step, and another step, and by the end 124 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: of the nineteen thirties, Thompson's column was read by eight 125 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: to ten million people a day, at a time when 126 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: the population of the United States was one hundred and 127 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 2: thirty million. She was a fixture on the radio, too, 128 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 2: toured the country the way rock bands to today. During 129 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: one week in nineteen thirty seven, she turned down seven 130 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,679 Speaker 2: hundred speaking requests seven hundred. 131 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: She was so famous that Catherine Hepburn played her in 132 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 3: the effectively in the first movie that Hepburn made with 133 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 3: Spencer Tracy, called Woman of the Year is basically the 134 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: story of a Hollywood version of Dorothy Thompson. 135 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: Dorothy Thompson became such a public figure that quips about 136 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: her were part of the culture. She snips her nails 137 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 2: with indignation. She's discovered the secret of perpetual emotion, and 138 00:08:55,920 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 2: most famously this from Alice Roosevelt Longworth, Ted Bell's daughter, 139 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 2: who said that Thompson is quote the only woman in 140 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: history who has had her menopause in public and made 141 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 2: it pay, a line, incidentally that Dorothy Thompson found hilarious. 142 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 2: This is my favorite Dorothy Thompson's story. One night in 143 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: nineteen twenty six, She's coming back from the opera in 144 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: Vienna when she hears there's been a coup in Poland, 145 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: there's a knight trained to warsaw, and the whole foreign 146 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: correspondent crew is racing niked on it. Dorothy doesn't have 147 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: time to get back to her apartment, so she has 148 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: her secretary fetch her typewriter and a traveling bag. The 149 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,679 Speaker 2: bigger problem is she doesn't have any money for the 150 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 2: journey and the banks are closed. So who does she call, Remember, 151 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: it's Vienna in nineteen twenty six. Sigmund Freud. Of course, 152 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 2: he's a good friend. And by the way, everyone who 153 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 2: is anyone was friends with Dorothy Thompson. So Freud pulls 154 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,679 Speaker 2: a stack of cash out of his safe and sends 155 00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: his driver to the train station. Dorothy jumps on the 156 00:09:56,840 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: train biqu She's made it. 157 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 3: Oh. 158 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: They crossed the border into Poland and the train tracks 159 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: are blown out. Dorothy jumps out, Hell's a big damler. 160 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: The driver demands a king's ransom, so Dorothy jumps in 161 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 2: a ford. The second driver refuses to enter Warsaw when 162 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 2: he hears the gunfire. Meanwhile, the driver of the first car, 163 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 2: the Damler, runs into heavy gunfire. His car is riddled 164 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 2: with bullets. The other correspondents witness the attack and they're inconsolable. 165 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: Dorothy's dead. They wire her obituary back to Vienna, but 166 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 2: Dorothy is not dead. She's left the ford behind and 167 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: is walking the final few miles into Warsaw, still in 168 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: her ball gown and slippers, and legend has it swearing 169 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: like a sailor. Dorothy had everyone's attention. And what was 170 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 2: she talking and riding about? Over and over again? In 171 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 2: the nineteen thirties Adolf Hitler. Long before the world became 172 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: obsessed with Hitler, Dorothy Thompson was obsessed with Hitler. 173 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 3: So yeah, she always saw that Hitler was a thing 174 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: and that he was the one to watch, and that 175 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: you needed to understand where that was going is. She 176 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 3: read a lot of history, She read a lot of politics. 177 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 3: She interviewed everybody to try to get a sense of 178 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 3: what it was that was going on, and so she 179 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 3: got to the heart of it in a way that few, 180 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: if any, of her of her contemporaries did. 181 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 2: A journalist once calculated that by the spring of nineteen 182 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 2: forty she had written a total of two hundred and 183 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: thirty eight thousand words for her column in the Herald Tribune, 184 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 2: and one hundred and forty seven thousand of those were 185 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 2: about Hitler. If I ever divorced Dorothy, her husband, once said, 186 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: I'll name Adolf Hitler as correspondent. Hitler Hitler, Hitler. She 187 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: had to meet the man coming up, the first of 188 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: what will be many meetings with Hitler over the course 189 00:11:54,200 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 2: of this series. Before we go any further, I want 190 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: to present an idea that will be useful over the 191 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: next nine episodes. It's one of the most famous psychological 192 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: theories of the twentieth century, Leon Festinger's cognitive dissonance. We've 193 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 2: talked about it before in the show. It's a psychological 194 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 2: state of discomfort that occurs when a person holds two 195 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: or more conflicting thoughts, beliefs, or behaviors. Chocolate cake is 196 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: bad for me. I desperately want a piece of chocolate cake. 197 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 2: That's cognitive dissonance. It's a contradiction between what I believe 198 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 2: and how I behave infesting and believed that cognitive dissonance 199 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 2: makes us so uncomfortable that we are compelled to resolve it. 200 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 2: So you change your behavior to align with your belief 201 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 2: You say, I'm just not going to eat the cake, 202 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,719 Speaker 2: or I'm going to take just one bite, or I'm 203 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 2: going to go to the gym afterwards, or you change 204 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 2: your beliefs to align with your behavior. You tell yourself 205 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: I read somewhere that chocolate cake isn't that fattening. Or 206 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 2: maybe you try and make the world change its mind 207 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: so they can't judge you. You stand up and say, 208 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 2: this looks like cake, but it's not actually cake. It's 209 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 2: cocopatter and sweetener and whipped low calorie cream cheese. If 210 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: you go online, you could find a ton of old, 211 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: black and white videos of psychologists working through the implications 212 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 2: of Festinger's idea. 213 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 5: Psychological story of decision making doesn't end, however, when a 214 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 5: decision has been made. 215 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 2: That's Philip Simbardo, one of the many psychologists inspired by Festinger's. 216 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 5: Work, the act of making a decision can trigger a 217 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 5: flood of other prophecies. According to psychologists Leon Festinger, whenever 218 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 5: we choose to do something that conflicts with our prior beliefs, feelings, 219 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 5: or values, a state of cognitive dissonance is created in 220 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 5: us attention. You change what we think and what we do. 221 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:59,239 Speaker 2: The Berlin Olympics created cognitive dissonance on a grand geopolitical scale. 222 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 2: Were an ideal, pure competition, unencumbered by politics, high minded, 223 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 2: an event created for cross cultural understanding, young men and 224 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: women in perfect physical condition coming together from around the world. 225 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 2: The founder of the modern Olympic movement was Pierre de Coubertin, 226 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 2: who would always say, the important thing in life is 227 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: not the triumph of the struggle. The essential thing is 228 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 2: not to have conquered, but to have fought well. That 229 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: was the belief. But in nineteen thirty six, what was 230 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: the action to participate in the Berlin Games meant? Going 231 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: to Germany, competing in a stadium built by Nazi architects, 232 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 2: being fodder for Hitler's propaganda chief Joseph Goebels, and helping 233 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 2: to legitimize a regime that had already started on the 234 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: long anti Semitic path that would end in the Holocaust. 235 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 2: The Berlin Olympics were brutally dissonant, and in each of 236 00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: these episodes, Ben and I will follow how a a 237 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 2: different person resolved the contradiction, starting with someone who pretty 238 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: much said, if there's a problem with the cake, then 239 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: don't eat the cake. Dorothy Thompson. As early as nineteen 240 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: twenty three, Dorothy Thompson had her sight set on an 241 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 2: interview with Hitler. This was a decade before he'd come 242 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: to power. Early days in Munich after the so called 243 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 2: beerhal Putsch, when the young Hitler tried to launch a 244 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 2: coup against the German government. When that failed, he escaped 245 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 2: to a hideaway in the Bavarian Alps. Thompson followed him there, 246 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 2: arriving only two hours after Hitler did, but he had 247 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 2: already moved on. For the next seven years, she pursued 248 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: him to no avail, but then Hitler's party started gaining 249 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: traction his movement grew. He set up office in the 250 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 2: Kaiserhaf Hotel in Berlin, right across the street from the 251 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 2: Reich Chancellery. The state of power in Germany. All the 252 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: top Nazis hung out at the Kaiseraff with his grand 253 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 2: awning wrought iron balconies. They ate in the three story 254 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 2: dining room under its great glass ceiling. It was luxurious, 255 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 2: It felt like power. Hitler could look out his window 256 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 2: at the Reich Chancellery and dream. Hitler had a press 257 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 2: officer named Ernst Hampstengel. Everyone called him Putsy, which meant 258 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: little fellow, though it translates literally as cute. Putsy was 259 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,800 Speaker 2: half German, half American. His mother was a Sedgewick, one 260 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: of the grand old New England families. He grew up 261 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: in Germany, but went to Harvard, where he was classmates 262 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 2: with T. S. Eliot and with Theodore Roosevelt's son. One day, 263 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 2: Putsy ran into Hitler in a bar in Munich, holding 264 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: the crowd's spellbound, and he fell in love. Putsy was 265 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 2: a great musician, and whenever Hitler got a little lonesome, 266 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 2: he would have Putsy bang out some Wagner on the 267 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: piano or some other little diddy that he'd written. Many 268 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: years after the war, Putsy wrote his memoirs, which I 269 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: would wholeheartedly recommend, in law part because of passages like this. 270 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: By the time he and Adolf were over to Friend's house. 271 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 2: They're so good that we had to reenact them. 272 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 6: I started playing some of the football marches I had 273 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 6: picked up at Harvard. I explained to Hitler all the 274 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 6: business about the cheerleaders and college songs and the deliberate 275 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 6: whipping up of hysterical. 276 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 2: Enthusiasms sound familiar. 277 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 6: I told him about the thousands of spectators being made 278 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 6: to raw Harvard Harvard, Harvard rah rah rah in unison, 279 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 6: and the hypnotic effect of this sort of thing. I 280 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 6: played him some of the Sousa marches and my own 281 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 6: falorah to show how it could be done by adapting 282 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 6: German tunes, gave them all that buoyant beat so characteristic 283 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,720 Speaker 6: of American brass band music. I had Hitler fairly shouting 284 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 6: with enthusiasm, that's it, Hanstenger, that is what we need 285 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 6: for the movement, and he pranced up and down the 286 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 6: room like a drum major. After that he had the 287 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 6: SA band practicing the same thing. Rah rah rah became 288 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 6: z hien z Hei. That is the origin of it. 289 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 6: And I suppose I must take my share of the blame. 290 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: Putsy ends the war as an adviser to Franklin Roosevelt, 291 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: making him the only person to serve the leadership of 292 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 2: both sides of the Second World War. But I digress 293 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 2: so Putsy convinces Hitler that he needs to have more 294 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 2: of an international profile, so he starts inviting people to 295 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 2: come and meet Herr Hitler at the kaiser Hoff, the 296 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 2: New York Times, an Italian journalist, a Japanese journalist, a 297 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: legendary foreign correspondent with the memorable name Hubert Renfro Knickerbocker, 298 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 2: and finally, Dorothy Thompson. Is she prepared for the interview? 299 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 2: Of course, she's Dorothy Thompson. When he was in prison 300 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 2: in nineteen twenty four, years before the kaiser Hoff, Hitler 301 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: had written his men off Testo Mine Kamf. It was 302 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 2: a best seller in Germany, and trust me, Dorothy Thompson 303 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: had read Mine Kamf in the German all seven hundred 304 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:14,240 Speaker 2: nutty pages of it, including passages like with Satanic joy 305 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 2: in his face, the black haired Jewish youth lurks in 306 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 2: wait for the unsuspecting girl, whom he defiles with his blood, 307 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 2: thus stealing her from her people. There's a lot of 308 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 2: stuff like this in Mine comp it was, and it 309 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: is Jews who bring the Negroes into the Rhineland, always 310 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 2: with the same secret thought and clear aim of ruining 311 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 2: the hated white race by the necessarily resulting bastardization, throwing 312 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 2: it down from its cultural em political height, and himself 313 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:49,400 Speaker 2: rising to be its master. Dorothy Thompson knows just who 314 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 2: she's going to meet when she walks into the Kaiserhof. 315 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: She walks through the marble lobby, waits and puts his's office. 316 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 2: She would say later that there was a lot of 317 00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: fussiness of the final preper for the interview. She was 318 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 2: limited to three questions, which she had to submit twenty 319 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: four hours in advance. Hitler did not like thinking on 320 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 2: his feet. Before the interview, she spots Hitler going to 321 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 2: his rooms, accompanied by someone who she says, looks like 322 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 2: al Capone. She waits for an hour. Finally she's ushered in. 323 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 2: She would say later, I was a little nervous. I 324 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 2: considered taking smelling salts. Understand that's a joke. Dorothy Thompson 325 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 2: wasn't afraid of anyone. This was the woman who marched 326 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,359 Speaker 2: into Warsaw wearing her ball room slippers. We don't have 327 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 2: a recording of the interview, but I want you to 328 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 2: imagine it. Her voice, her presence, those piercing blue eyes, 329 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 2: Hitler's never met her before. And Hitler, to put it nicely, 330 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 2: did not exactly have relationships of any real meaning with women, 331 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 2: unless you count photo opportunities with little German girls. So 332 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: maybe he's the nervous one because he just starts babbling. 333 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 2: Thompson would later write up the interview in an essay 334 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 2: called I Saw Hitler. He is formless, almost faceless, a 335 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 2: man whose countenance is a caricature, a man whose framework 336 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 2: seems cartilaginous without bones. He is inconsequent and voluble, ill poised, insecure. 337 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 2: He is the very prototype of the little man ouch. 338 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 2: A lock of lank hair falls over an insignificant and 339 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 2: slightly retreating forehead. The backhead is shallow, the face is 340 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: broad in the cheekbones. The nose is large, but badly 341 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 2: shaped and without character. His movements are awkward, almost undignified, 342 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 2: and most unmartial. There is in his face no trace 343 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,920 Speaker 2: of any inner conflict or self discipline. I mean, how good, 344 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 2: how true, how vicious is this? And then she backhands him, 345 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 2: And yet he is not without a certain charm, but 346 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 2: it is the soft, almost feminine charm of the Austrian. 347 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 2: The eyes alone are notable, dark gray and hyperthyroid. They 348 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 2: have the peculiar shine which often distinguishes geniuses, alcoholics, and hysterics. 349 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 2: When Hitler becomes Chancellor of Germany a year later, one 350 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 2: of the first things he does is kick Dorothy Thompson 351 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 2: out of the country because he's been humiliated by a woman. 352 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 2: I think the thing that really sticks in his craw 353 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 2: is the line that follows that little bit about geniuses, 354 00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: alcoholics and hysterics. There is something irritatingly refined about him. 355 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 2: I bet he crooks his little finger when he drinks 356 00:22:49,520 --> 00:23:02,200 Speaker 2: a cup of tea. Is adolf with aspirations of being 357 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 2: a badass dictator, and Dorothy Thompson has him drinking tea 358 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: like your grandmother. Now you might say it's not surprising 359 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 2: she looks at Hitler this way. He's Hitler. But the 360 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:16,919 Speaker 2: truth is that lots and lots of people who go 361 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 2: to see him in those years don't see the real Hitler. 362 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 2: Like the Canadian Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King. Here 363 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,719 Speaker 2: is his diary entry after meeting Hitler. My sizing up 364 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 2: of the man as I sat and talked with him, 365 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 2: was that he is really one who truly loves his 366 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: fellow man and his country, and would make any sacrifice 367 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 2: for their good. That he feels himself to be a 368 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,119 Speaker 2: deliverer of his people from tyranny. It gets worse. His 369 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: face is much more prepossessing than his pictures would give 370 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 2: the impression of It's not that of a fiery, overstrained nature, 371 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 2: but of a calm, passive man, deeply and thoughtfully in earnest. 372 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 2: His eyes impressed me most of all. There was a 373 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: liquid quality about them which indicate keen perception and profound sympathy. 374 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 2: Dorothy Thompson saw the particular sheen of geniuses, alcoholics and hysterics. 375 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 2: King saw keen perspective and profound sympathy. I'm sorry, I 376 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,879 Speaker 2: can't resist. Here's a little more from the diary entry. 377 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: As I talked to him, I could not but think 378 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 2: of Joan of Arc. Joan of Arc I would point 379 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 2: out that Mackenzie King was the longest serving Prime minister 380 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 2: in Canadian history. He did as much to shape twentieth 381 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: century Canada as anyone. He's not some naive, but he 382 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 2: sits down next to Hitler for an hour and a 383 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 2: half and totally loses his marbles. He is particularly strong 384 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 2: on beauty, love's flowers, and will spend more of the 385 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 2: money of the state on gardens and flowers than on 386 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 2: most other things. It was really, really easy to be 387 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 2: sed by Adolf Hitler. The German people were seduced by 388 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 2: Adolf Hitler. Even Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister, would 389 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 2: be seduced by him. 390 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,359 Speaker 1: This morning. 391 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 7: I had another talk with the German Chancellor Hey Hitler. 392 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 2: In nineteen thirty eight, when everyone was worried that Hitler 393 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 2: was going to invade Czechoslovakia. Hitler looked Neville Chamberlain in 394 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 2: the eye and said, I'm not going to invade anyone anymore, 395 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 2: and Chamberlain, a politician of more than twenty years at 396 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: that point, believed him. 397 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,880 Speaker 7: We regard the agreement signed last night and the Anglo 398 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 7: German naval agreement a symbolic of the desire of our 399 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 7: two peoples never to go to war with one another again. 400 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: But who isn't seduced by Hitler? Dorothy Thompson. 401 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 3: I mean, look, let's just not underestimate just how smart 402 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 3: she was. 403 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: Sarah church well again. 404 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 3: But her intelligence was emotional intelligence as well, and I 405 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 3: think she saw earlier than anybody else I've read. She 406 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 3: understood that Hitler was an emotional movement. She was very 407 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 3: alert to when she was being emotionally manipulated. We may 408 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 3: want to trace that back to her childhood being raised by, 409 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 3: as you said, you know, a kind of ineffective preacher, 410 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 3: a bad preacher. She was onto it. You know, she 411 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 3: knew when people were trying to manipulate her, and she 412 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:22,719 Speaker 3: was allergic to it. 413 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: This makes me think there should be a kind of 414 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 2: a you know how people. This is a weird analogy, 415 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 2: but there's all this kind of literature about the particular 416 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 2: ways in which children of alcoholics make sense of their 417 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 2: childhood there growing up with someone who was emotionally unpredictable. 418 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: I think there's a parallel thing with Preacher's kids. You 419 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: grew up with someone whose job it is on a 420 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,159 Speaker 2: weekly basis to reach out and connect to an intimate 421 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 2: group of people, and you're sitting in the church observing 422 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: that every Sunday. For it's like a It's a really 423 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: interesting education for a child to see your father up. 424 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 3: There, right, It's like, yeah, the Wizard of Oz. Right, 425 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 3: you constantly see the man behind the curtain, and so yeah, 426 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 3: I think that you are. Yeah, you're onto them, She 427 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 3: writes in and I saw Hitler, that she could see 428 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 3: that it was starting to become a religion, that he 429 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 3: functioned like a religious leader. 430 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: Now, if you are Mackenzie King and you go and 431 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 2: see Hitler and see a man who just wants to 432 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: plant lots of flowers, then of course you're going to 433 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: send a team of athletes to the Nazi Olympics. You 434 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: change your beliefs to make them consistent with your actions. 435 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,240 Speaker 2: You stand up and say this looks like cake. It's 436 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 2: not actually cake. It's coco patter and sweetener and whipped 437 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: localorie cream cheese. But if you're honest with yourself, you 438 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 2: can't do that. If you're Dorothy Thompson, you say, there's 439 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 2: a conflict here between the kind of things the Olympics 440 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,239 Speaker 2: stood for and what the Nazi Party stood for, and 441 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: for her, the correct path to resolving that conflict is 442 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 2: to change our behavior. When she writes up her interview 443 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 2: with Hitler, Thompson has a crucial paragraph at the end and. 444 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 3: So yeah, so she says, take the Jews out of 445 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,080 Speaker 3: his program and it collapses. She says, it's based entirely 446 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 3: on a hatred of the Jewish people. And she says, 447 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 3: and the argument is simple, and she sees straight to 448 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 3: the heart of it, which is the Jews are responsible 449 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:19,000 Speaker 3: for everything. 450 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 2: She read that passage in Mankomff about black haired Jewish 451 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 2: youth raping German girls, and she doesn't explain it away 452 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: or ignore it or creates some elaborate rationalization about how 453 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 2: he doesn't really believe that anymore, that he was young 454 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 2: and those were different times, blah blah blah. No. Dorothy 455 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: Thompson says that Minkomf is exactly what Hitler stands for, 456 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 2: and we have to watch out because the German public 457 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 2: are starting to agree. 458 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 3: She says, you know right. In that same section, she 459 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 3: says that the reason for his appeal is that the 460 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: people listening to him have somebody to blame. They have 461 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 3: an outlet for their resentment and their frustration. 462 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: It's nineteen thirty two. Hitler isn't even in power yet, 463 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: and one of the most famous journalists in America is 464 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: laying it all out. There's a monster lurking on the 465 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: ground floor of the KAISERHF and he has a dangerous 466 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: obsession with the Jews. We can't sign up for his 467 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: propaganda show, we can't go to the Olympics, and what 468 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: happens we go. I'd never heard of Dorothy Thompson before 469 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 2: we started this project, but midway through, like everyone else, 470 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,520 Speaker 2: I fell in love with her. And I think my 471 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 2: favorite of the many things she wrote is an article 472 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: in Harper's magazine in nineteen forty one, a few months 473 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: before Pearl Harbor It begins. It is an interesting and 474 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 2: somewhat acar parlor game to play at a large gathering 475 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 2: of one acquaintances, to speculate who, in a showdown would 476 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 2: go Nazi. Going Nazi, of course, is the easiest way 477 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: to resolve the cognitive dissonance of the Berlin Games. I 478 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: have come to know the types the born Nazis, the 479 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 2: Nazis whom democracy itself has created, the certain to be 480 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 2: fellow travelers, And so she lays out the types. Here 481 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: is her, mister b a man of his own class, 482 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 2: graduate of the same preparatory school and university, rich, a sportsman, 483 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: owner of a famous racing stable, vice president of a bank, 484 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 2: married to a well known society belle. He is a 485 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: good fellow and extremely popular. But if America were going Nazi, 486 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 2: he would certainly join up and early. Why mister B 487 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: has risen beyond his real abilities by virtue of health, 488 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 2: good looks, and being a good mixer. He married for money, 489 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 2: and he has done lots of other things for money. 490 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: His code is not his own, It is that of 491 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: his class, no worse, no better. He fits easily into 492 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: whatever pattern is successful. That is his sole measure of value. Success. 493 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 2: Nazism as a minority movement would not attract him as 494 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: a movement likely to attain power. It would. We're going 495 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 2: to meet a real mister B, and another Thompson type too, 496 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 2: a mister C, who she describes like this. Mister C 497 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 2: is not a born Nazi. He is the product of 498 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 2: a democracy hypocritically preaching social equality and practicing a carelessly 499 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 2: brutal snobbery. He is a sensitive, gifted man who has 500 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: been humiliated into nihilism. He would laugh to see heads roll. 501 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 2: We're going to meet the perfect mister C, as well 502 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 2: A lot of people in that brief window before the 503 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: Olympics and before the war that would engulf the world 504 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 2: went Nazi. How did that happen? That's the real story 505 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: of the Games, Behind the Games. Welcome to Hitler's Olympics. 506 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 2: Over the next eight episodes, we'll meet all kinds of 507 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: people from the lead up to the nineteen thirty six Games. 508 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:23,160 Speaker 2: We'll talk about Charles Cheryl, diplomatic athlete, internationalist, man of parts, 509 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: the ranking American member of the International Olympic Committee. Ben, 510 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 2: Is it not safe to say that we became obsessed 511 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 2: with Charles Cheryl? Is this project? 512 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: Ben? 513 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 2: I believe the only two people in the history of 514 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: mankind to maintain a Charles Cheryl text chain. 515 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 8: Certainly technologically and circumstantially, that's got to be true. 516 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 2: We'll spend some time with Avery Brundage, a champion athlete, 517 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: a self made millionaire who saw in the nineteen thirty 518 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 2: six Games a chance to expel his personal demons and 519 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 2: seize control of the entire Olympic movement. 520 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 8: Rarely encountered someone so single minded and who also has 521 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 8: such a profound lack of self awareness. 522 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 2: Then there's Jesse Owens, winner of four gold medals, the 523 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: African American star of the nineteen thirty six Games. 524 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 3: That was the beginning to the end of a very 525 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 3: long dream. 526 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure you've heard of Jesse Owens, but we're going 527 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,280 Speaker 2: to tell you a story about Owens but you haven't heard. 528 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,240 Speaker 2: And then the strange tale of a very proper German 529 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,200 Speaker 2: law student named Heinrich Krieger who embarked on an epic 530 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: fact finding mission to Arkansas. This is almost a comic 531 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,160 Speaker 2: notion to someone's coming from this, from the cradle of 532 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 2: European civilization to Fadville in the early nineteen thirties. I mean, 533 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know how he ended up there. 534 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 2: I truly don't. Billy Garland a real estate tycoon with 535 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 2: a grand vision, lots of counts and barons and assorted 536 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 2: European aristocrats who in the nineteen thirties used the Olympic 537 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 2: movement to cling to their past glory the way a 538 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 2: toddler clings to a teddy bear. Not to mention side 539 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 2: trips to a small town in Alabama, a lesson from 540 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: a legendary triple jumper, and a seminar on a crucial 541 00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: but all but forgotten Supreme Court case called Giles v. Harris. 542 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 2: But in the next episode, we start with a man 543 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: who claims, among other things, to have invented the crouching start. 544 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,399 Speaker 2: Charles Hitchcock. Cheryl are mister b. 545 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 6: I have led the happiest life of anybody you ever 546 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 6: met in your life. 547 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: Religionous History is produced by Ben n Daph Haffrey, Tolly Emlin, 548 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 2: and Nina Bird Lawrence. Our editor is Sarah Nix. Fact 549 00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 2: checking by Arthur Gomperts and Jail Goldfein, Original scoring by 550 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 2: Luis Garra, mastering by Flaw Williams, Sarah Buger and Jake Gorsky. 551 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 2: Engineering by Nina Bird Lawrence. Our executive producer is Jacob Smith. 552 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Karen Chakerji, special thanks to rufus Wright 553 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: for reading us our putsy in this episode, and a 554 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: big thank you to Jacob Goldstein for introducing us to 555 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,800 Speaker 2: Dorothy Thompson. I'm Malcolm Gladwell.