WEBVTT - 2026 Players Championship Preview & Fried Egg Stories: Making TPC Sawgrass 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.800 I miss the green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:04.920 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.200 And when I find my ball in a brid egg. 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:11.840 Friday egg, the dreaded Friday Friday fridagg brid egg Lie, 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:13.080 I'm about ready to run. 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:13.360 Off of the. 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.479 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.800 I'm your host, Andy Johnson. Today. I'm excited. 0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:45.479 Uh. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:50.280 This marks the beginning of our our really kind of 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:56.040 big tournament, big tournament season, championship season, you could say 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:02.040 March's Major. The players is starting off now. Albeit you 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:03.920 know their their claims that they're a major. 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:04.520 I do not. 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:10.880 I do not consider it a major. And thus instead 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.160 of five things, we do four things for the players. 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.840 I am joined as always, not as always, but hopefully 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:22.319 as always for the players by Sean Martin from PGA 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.600 tour dot com. He is a long time regular guest 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.680 of this podcast, has been way back since since the 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:34.440 beginning days, so always nice to chop it up with Sean, 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.960 one of my favorite golf minds, favorite golf people, and 0:01:39.680 --> 0:01:43.240 talk about the players his hometown event. So we will 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.200 talk about the players, we'll dive into kind of the preview. 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:50.600 It's obviously this week. Uh, we''ll be wrapping up with Bayhill. 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:53.640 This is a Sunday release and we will be off 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:54.120 and running. 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:54.560 Uh. 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.720 It kind of just signals that the Masters is really, 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:02.840 really quickly approaching. On top of Sean, we have added 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:06.560 in audio from a project that we did in twenty twenty. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.760 I thought it'd be fun to throw this in here 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:12.519 for those that listen. Then thank you for all of 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.400 our new listeners. You may not have seen this or 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:18.560 heard this. Garrett Morrison, one of my great colleagues here 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:24.000 at Friday Golf, put together an incredible documentary style podcast 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.720 about the building of TPC Sawgrass. It includes interviews with 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.000 an interview with Dean Beeman. This is one of my 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:34.680 favorite projects that we've ever done here, and I figured 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:40.920 it was a time to re release it and add 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.400 it to the end of this episode. Before we get 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:48.000 to Sean, here is a word from Optim. Optim is 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:52.280 making the healthcare system simpler, smarter, and more connected. Optims 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:57.400 capabilities include patient care, pharmacy services, health intelligence, and AI. 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.200 Optim is a proud partner of the Players Championship, and 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:06.280 Rory McElroy is an optim Health Ambassador. Thanks to optim 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.639 for their support of our players coverage. All right, let's 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:19.960 get to Sean Martin. Proud to welcome in, not proud, 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.160 happy to welcome in. Sean Martin. It's been a while, 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:28.000 a long time regular of this podcast. Uh, Smartin, how 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:28.600 are we doing? 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:31.200 I'm good. This is like my annual appearance. I think 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:32.959 it was this event last year that I was on 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.840 last time. So I'm happy to be back, Happy to 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:35.520 talk to players. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:39.120 You know, cutting down to one one one episode a 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:41.640 week has you know, limited guests appearances. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:43.960 You know, it's a higher bar to clearer to get 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:44.839 on the guest list. 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:49.800 It's a scarcity schedule, right, But excited to talk about 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.360 your hometown event the players. Uh, you know, there's listen, 0:03:53.600 --> 0:03:57.280 there's there's not many people with the with the sheer 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:01.000 amount of players expertise as you, and that's why this 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.520 is the podcast that you out. 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.000 I like that, you know, I'm technically a TVC Sawgraphs member, 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:08.320 so I feel like I know the course intimately. Maybe 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:10.880 I can add some insight as well. But uh, big, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.840 big fan of the players, love the tournament, love having 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:15.800 my backyard, love hosting all of my you know, frends 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:17.880 from the golf media get to come like and show 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:19.760 them Jacksonville's finals for the week. It's always it's a 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:20.919 great week for all of those reasons. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.800 Yeah, where are we going to beget in dinner this week? 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:25.599 That's a great question. Mann put me on the spot. 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.400 We're gonna have We're gonna have PJ and and Joseph 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.120 Young the young iNTS with us. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:32.560 Uh. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.840 We'll have to go, you know, talk nineties sports. Uh 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:38.160 and educate them. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:40.800 Well, you might have to join us. PJ and Joseph 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.360 and myself have to go back to bricks bar. I 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.760 think on Wednesday for sports Trivia, I think we have 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:51.480 to defend our second place finish it cost us they 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:54.600 The final question was who was the first person say 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:59.400 I'm going to Disneyland after winning a Super Bowl? And 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.680 I think I into Phil Simms. But Phil Simms was 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.240 the second one. I think he actually was correct. I 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.240 think it was Doug Williams of the Washington Red Now Commanders. 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.719 I think I talked PJ out of it. I swore 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.120 as Phil Simms. I think because I was older and 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.680 closer to the time, he allowed it. But unfortunately I 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.520 was wrong. We really need Brandon would have nailed it. 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.360 Big commander's guy hometown team. He would have killed it. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:24.560 He would have gotten that answer for us. 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:30.360 Excited for my annual week in Jacksonville Beach Area. It's 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.040 a delightful place this time of year. We've got the 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:37.760 players in March. How are we feeling about the players 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:38.760 at Marsh in general? 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:41.360 I mean, that's my first thing. I don't know if 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:42.400 I want to spoil it yet. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.040 We're doing four things I heard, so just four. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.040 Sure, let's start. So my first one is just the 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:53.800 winners in March. Right, there's been six players in March. 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.799 The winners are Rory twice, Scotty twice, Justin Thomas, Cameron Smith, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.359 So twelve combined majors among the group, and everyone except 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:03.760 camra Smith was a major winner before they became a 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.800 Players Champion. Cameron obviously won his major later that year. 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.760 I had this as like a sub title to one 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:15.080 of mine. My my mad story was the race for 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:21.599 three players between Rory and Scottie. It's not maybe it's 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.360 you know, that's I think like a fantastic story for 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.400 the players. But also the sub was this incredible run 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:33.040 of majors winner made or of players winners. God, I 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:39.160 just tripped up a Freudian slipped there. Incredible run of players, winners, 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:45.680 and you know, I for years it's been the storyline 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.359 with with sawgrasses like it's fluky, we don't know who's 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.360 gonna win. Look at the look at the winner winner's list. 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:54.560 You get a lot of flukes. And now you look 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:57.960 at it and I don't know where the flukes are. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.640 No has gone back to March. You know. I think 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.520 obviously some people may criticize the overseed, some people may 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:08.080 be on this podcast, but I do think that you know, 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.800 Rory uh has said that in March it's more of 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:13.920 a driver's golf course. It's a little softer, you have 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.480 to driver more often, obviously plays longer. March it was 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.280 very much I would say March was almost more like 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:21.240 Harbor Town in a sense of like you're really plodding 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.080 your way around there. It's really firm and fast, a 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.280 lot of irons off of teas and May now yeah May, sorry, yeah, 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.160 May was firm and fast. March it's really I mean, 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:30.960 it's a you've got to hit driver, and obviously you've 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:32.200 got to hit it well. And so I think that's 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.520 one reason for the strong winners we've had so far. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.680 The other aspect of of I think the advantage that 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:44.280 March has beyond just history. You know, it's just kind 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.120 of like when you expect to watch the players is 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.040 right now, and it's a great ramp up for the 0:07:48.080 --> 0:07:51.680 first major of the year. You know, is is the 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.640 the wind. March is just a windier times. I think 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:59.640 it's the windiest month. I might be wrong in Florida. 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:01.560 I don't know what that one, but I remember Paul 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.760 Tasori told me the wind actually is different in March 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.760 versus May. So in May seventeen and eighteen played downwind 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.200 and in March usually seventeen and eighteen played into the wind. 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.720 So like even when Ricky won, Ricky hit like three 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.520 wood gap ledge to eighteen and now it's back to 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:16.920 being that brute of a finishing hole. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.120 Yeah, the so I just think the wind is more 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.320 of a factor. I wish the golf course could play firmer, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.880 even just the greens. I think like we've seen numerous 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.080 ball in hand situations over the last couple of years, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:37.440 which I just, you know, you wish that wasn't the case. 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.439 But I do think May or March is a much 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.040 better date and you know, I've talked to some superintendents 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:48.800 in the area and it is like, really, it would 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.719 be really dicey to be Bermuda at that point. From 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:54.880 what they've told me, is like it's not super ideal 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:56.760 at that time of year. 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.160 I mean, it's the weather this time of year too, 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.000 and I think maybe one why the champions have been 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:03.280 so good. March you get such a wider variety of weather. 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.360 Like May, it's either hot or thunderstorms, so it's either 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.800 blazing hot or you're in a rain delay. March you 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.880 get some rain here without lightnings, you're playing through that, 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.160 you can get some higher wins. We've seen it in 0:09:13.360 --> 0:09:14.959 a few of the March playing since it went back 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.319 to March, Like, you just get a wider variety of 0:09:18.080 --> 0:09:19.640 weather that guys have to play through. 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.440 So let's talk a little bit about the race for three. 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:28.240 It gives us an opportunity to talk about Rory and Scotty. 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.920 You know, if you were handicapping this, who would you 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.760 say has the better chance at earning their third Players 0:09:35.880 --> 0:09:37.760 Champion Chip this year? 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.040 I feel like Scotty, he's already got a win obviously, 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:43.040 and then really two weeks where he won the last 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:44.920 fifty four holes just had some sort of you know, 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.800 fluky bad start, So I think I'd probably give an 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.439 edge to Scotty for that one. I do think Rory is, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:53.280 you know, he showed some great form at the end 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.320 of the year. He's had a good start to the year, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.040 and I think the good vibes of heading towards Augusta 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.800 and his title defense are I'm in a good spot, 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.920 but I'm probably leaning Scotty here. Plus, i mean, Scotty's 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.440 done well. We always said, you know, what would happen 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:07.439 if he became one of the world's best putters, and 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:08.840 now he's one of the world's best putters. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.079 That's the crazy thing. I mean, you know, if you 0:10:12.160 --> 0:10:14.360 look at the stats, and I think it's it's too 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.160 early to really dive into the stats on the year, 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.160 but we're still going to do that. His iron play 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:24.960 has been pedestrian this year, which is, you know, very 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.840 Unscotty like and and you know, if I was another 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.959 player on tour, I'd be absolutely terrified for it. I 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.160 think one of the things that the other things, you know, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.439 Rory talked about this in his sit down interview with 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.199 Kevin Van Walkenberg that's on our YouTube channel. But he 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:44.360 talked about how Scotty has like no ego, how he's 0:10:44.920 --> 0:10:47.959 he kind of like fits, you know, and this is 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:51.319 me interpreting this, like he doesn't care, he said he 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.920 didn't doesn't care about being the longest in our group. 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:59.120 But the way Scotty's able to tailor his his driver 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.880 to the golf course where he kind of you know, 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.679 looks at the golf course and what it's giving him 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.679 and isn't afraid to hit you know, two hundred and 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.240 ninety yard cuts or you know, if it's a place 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.959 where it's bombs away, you know, tee it high and 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:18.640 you start to see him hit. You know, he can 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.880 get into those low one eighties to one eighty four 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:26.600 ball speed. It's he's a fascinating player because I feel 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:29.520 like just so many guys on tour are are kind 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.640 of a one speed player where this is my driver 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.280 swing and I go, I go at it and you know, 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:38.080 if I want to hit a fairway finder, I tee 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.120 it down a little, and that's the way it works 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:44.280 like Scotty. Scotty's like I don't even know what the 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.800 right comp is, but it's like almost like a Pitcher 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:50.679 that that doesn't throw the gas all the time that 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:52.320 they have it's. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.680 Like with the driver, what he's like a Greg Maddox 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:56.160 with the driver. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:12:01.040 Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's it's incredible. Obviously. I 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:05.160 think this is like for both of them, a landmark achievement. 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.160 You're talking about you get a third players, You're doing 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:12.840 something in the modern era that nobody's done. Jack Nicholas 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.959 won three players, but that was before it moved to 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:20.120 TPC Sawgrass Tiger Woods only having two players, Like, I mean, 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.400 this is really, in a way, like the most detainable Tiger, 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.520 Like okay, like Tiger's teed it up here his whole 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.680 career and I'm going to pass him in and wins 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:35.360 at a significant championship. That's a huge deal. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:36.679 Yeah. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:38.360 I was also thinking too, like we have grave if 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.560 they were in a showdown for this, like this title, 0:12:41.720 --> 0:12:44.640 Like I don't remember a Rory Scotty showdown. They've impaired 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.959 a bunch on Thursdays and Fridays. They've obviously been one 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.160 and two for a long time, but I can't point 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.679 back to like a Rory Scotty showdown where it's like 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:54.559 Mono amano for a title. I think it'd be cool 0:12:54.559 --> 0:12:56.120 if this was when we got it. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.240 Yeah, the they haven't had like an epic do a 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:05.200 lotside of you know, the Tour Championship, right, but uh, 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.320 you know one that comes to mind where they were 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.640 playing together late on Sunday they they were paired together 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.640 in the final group at LACC and that was a 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:17.360 four player race. You know, you had Wyndham, Rickey in 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.240 the final group, Scotty and Rory in the second to 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:25.640 last group. You think about I mean Scotty. Scotty's had 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.679 some close calls at the US Open. I don't mean 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.520 to change the subject here, but he had uh he 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:36.480 had the country club obviously and uh la cec. Both 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.080 of those. He was really in a position going into 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:39.720 Sunday to win. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:40.640 Well. 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:42.559 I think you or Brendan when he was dogging his 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.800 US Open record for a bit, I feel like. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.520 It wasn't me. I was dogging his Open championship record 0:13:48.559 --> 0:13:52.400 and he shoved in my face. He did, really really 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:53.839 steamrolled steamrolled me. 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:56.880 This this year Scotty with the driver is crazy because 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:58.599 I feel like he has distant control with it to 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.480 go out. You said, I don't remember last year, but 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:02.480 like he wins as the CJ cop and there's a 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:05.199 driver at part four there that's seventeen and it's like 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:07.680 not a full send driver, and he was like hitting 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:09.559 it pin high and almost I think he hit it 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.839 stiff one day and the next week is quail Hollow 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.120 and he almost holds out on fourteen when he's making 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.400 that charge on Saturday to kind of separate, and it's 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.040 just like, I mean, it's obviously a little bit of 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:21.880 luck involved, especially on fourteen you're kind of rolling it 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.640 down the hill, but like there's like distance control of 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:25.840 the driver, which is insane. 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.080 I think about. You know, billcore came on the pod 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:33.720 and he talked about, you know, Trinity Forest Rip Trainy 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.040 Forest is a tour set up, but he talked about 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:40.320 the idea of like challenge great golf courses challenge players 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:46.840 to hit a line off the tee he's and a 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.640 distance they make you choose, you know, and he was like, 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.480 that's what I'm trying to do with off the t 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:57.200 shots and how this relates to the players. I think 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.720 that's one of the things that the players does so 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:04.560 well well and hazards is you have to pick a 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:08.240 line and a distance off the tee to to drive 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.760 it really well. Uh as as we illuminated as we 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.920 kind of talked about the players in March, it being 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:19.080 more driver heavy, I think has restored it, you know, 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.720 some of that that challenge the May May date. You 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:24.680 just saw so many irons off the tea. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.440 Yeah, definitely the diagonal hazards, Like that's the beauty of 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.400 them is you got to do line and distance. We're 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.000 talking about well rounded off the t though. I think 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:34.800 that's what Rory showed last year when he won, and 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:36.800 we talked about I think that stinger driver that he 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:39.320 displayed at Pinehurst to use that's some like he hit 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:41.360 less than half his fairways last year to win. I 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:43.880 mean it was a great scrambling comp and it was 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:45.360 the beginning of the year when you want to Pebbly 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.040 talk about emulating Scotty by improving his short game, maybe 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:51.040 being more conservative off the tee, and like he really 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.560 put it into practice at the players, like wasn't hitting 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:55.840 it well, definitely wasn't driving it well, but really kind 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:57.120 of scrambled his way to winning. 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.920 I you know, both of these guys kind of highlight 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:08.600 you know, in the modern era and if you kind 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:12.280 of look through. I guess like, I don't think you 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.920 can be a great player without like a great short game. 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.360 Yeah, short game is cool again now. I think because 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:18.520 of that. 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:23.400 It's you know, these these guys are such magicians, both 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.520 of them around the Green and I think it gets 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:30.720 your Scotty gets talked about some, but Rory, Rory kind 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.040 of falls in that bucket of like Hideki Matsuyama, Sergio 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:40.000 Garcia over the years, just like criminally under talked about. 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:44.560 And you see it with you know, part five performance, 0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:48.160 how you eat up par fives is really like short game. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.480 You know, if you you know, you're not gonna hit 0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:53.600 every part five and two, but you're gonna be you know, 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:55.880 if you drive it moderately, well, you're gonna be around 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.160 every green and two for the for the in the 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.480 modern game. And that's where short game just takes over 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:06.680 and creates, you know, incredible scoring opportunities. Yeah, what's your 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:08.000 what's your second thing? 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:10.639 So since we only did four, I really jammed a 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.720 lot of subtopics into these my value. 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.760 You're taking my second taking by my approach, it drives 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.200 Trevor Mullman always nuts. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.360 So my second thing is a combination of Chris Goddroup 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:25.120 and Jacob Bridgeman both. 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.720 We're on the same page here, there we go, let's go. 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.560 But both have had amazing starts to the year, and 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.000 I think, you know, they've both proven to be bona 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.760 fide really good pg Tour players. They both made Eastlake 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.359 last year, they've both won already this year, Chris has 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.119 won twice, and they've won big events, and then that 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.880 sort of so that the next step now is performing 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.159 in big events, performing in the players, forming the majors, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.720 you know. I mean, both these guys are bona fide 0:17:53.720 --> 0:17:56.280 PGA Tour winners. They've closed tournaments out and so now 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:57.800 it's going to be how do they perform big events 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.440 this year? Like how big is the step that they're 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.240 going to take into twenty six and it's gonna be 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:02.359 defined by some of these events. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.480 Yeah, Chris got her up misscut last year. Uh in 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.920 his first appearance. I think Bridgeman finished T fifty last 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.040 year in his first appearance or T sixty the uh, 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:15.920 I think it was T fifty. I might I wrote 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.160 down in my notes T sixty though, like I'm I'm 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:19.760 remembering what I saw and. 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:21.920 You can't remember if you closed the loop on five 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:23.240 if it's a five or six. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.240 Yeah, I've misrecorded it on my notes here. 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:29.440 Uh whatever was middle of the pack? 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.880 Middle of the pack? I you know what about other 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:37.840 other things here? With those two is we've seen the 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:40.720 player of the players at TPC Sawgrass kind of be 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.920 a thorn in young player sides learning how to play 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.560 the golf course and figuring out how to play it 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:51.560 in particular, the one that would I think Bridgeman's kind 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.720 of more of this, like well rounded, you know, does 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:58.440 everything pretty well. I don't think he wouldn't alarm me, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.919 but like Chris got her up, maybe there's a period 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.639 of time where he needs the to learn how to 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.320 attack TPC Sawgrass the restraint he has to show in 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:13.600 places and you know, certain spots that he has to 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:17.320 get to in order to attack. But I think that's 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:22.760 that's an interesting subcard on this is like do we 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:26.639 see both one of them they've been the stories of 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.560 the spring. Do we see one or both of them 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:33.679 play play well here? Or do we see uh TPC 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.520 Sawgrass claim like another young victim of oh this is 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.600 this is a tricky place to figure out how to 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:40.160 play around. 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:42.880 Yeah, I think Chris The one thing I like about 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:44.760 him is he has that variety off the tea, kind 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.600 of like we talked about with Rory. He has that 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:50.000 stinger driver when he needs it. He uses a one 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:51.800 iron off the tea at times. He did in Scotland 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:53.320 at least, so I think that works to his favor 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.440 and I kind of like that about him. But I 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:57.479 just I just like both guys I love. Got her up, 0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.639 Like after he won in Phoenix, he said, like he 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.520 started Rutgers, obviously, I think he had like a seventy 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:04.440 four scoring hourage his first year, like was not on 0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:06.359 the road to like one time becoming a top ten 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.440 player in the world. And he said, I viewed myself 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:10.040 as a work in progress, and I still do. So 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.840 I got her up this offseason. He improved his wedge play, 0:20:12.840 --> 0:20:14.840 improved his putting. Like He's a guy who obviously had 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:16.359 a great foundation. He was a college player of the 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.560 Year by the time he left Oklahoma after five years. 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:22.879 But he's just testament to kind of continually refining and 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.760 Bridgeman sort of the same way he talked about working 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.320 with Scott Hamilton to improve his iron play and really 0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:29.879 improve his distance control because of the way he was 0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.000 releasing the club like he wasn't delivering consistent loft and 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:34.560 so I think both guys are just kind of a 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.760 testament to young guys, Like they had great college careers, 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:38.720 they come out, they're helped by PG two or you, 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.320 but there's still room for improvement. And there's guys that 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.280 they were smart about how they improved, and they did 0:20:43.359 --> 0:20:44.400 it kind of gradually. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:44.600 You know. 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:46.840 Neither of them was like twenty three, and so I 0:20:46.880 --> 0:20:49.080 think there's testament to like we have this obsession with 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:51.880 really really young guys, but that kind of gradual improvement, 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.680 finding your weaknesses, improving them getting better, and so I 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.520 like that side of both of their stories as well. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.440 I was, you know, I when I was putting together, 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.480 I was trying to think about some other names that 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.240 I could throw into this bucket, and I think, you 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.440 know one name that would be intriguing to watch this year. 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:15.960 There is Michael thorpe Jornson has played very well over 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.159 the last i'd say eight eight to nine months and 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:25.800 super promising young player. You know another guy that won 0:21:25.920 --> 0:21:29.920 last year that's super young and definitely don't think his 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:35.359 game's built first. TPC Sagress is aldriche Potkeater, but he 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:38.000 missed the cut last year at his first players and 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.160 and that would be another young name that I would 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.840 look at. And one that I just feel like hasn't 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.399 popped the way that a lot of people thought he 0:21:45.480 --> 0:21:48.920 would so far this year is is Johnny Keefer. 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.480 M Yeah, I think Thor especially like that one. He's 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.320 a guy who obviously kills it, murders off the team, 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.639 was kind of hurt by the occasional wild ball, and 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:00.440 he's really rained that in. I mean, he's got the length, 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:03.600 but he's really jumped in stroscane off the tee. He 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:04.879 was a guy who was one of the longest players 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:06.600 on tour, but was really far down in stroskin off 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:08.840 the t which means you're not driving accurately and you're 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:10.840 probably racking up penalty strokes because it's really hard to 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:12.959 not be high in that sat you're hitting as far 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.120 as he was. But his accuracy is improved and you've 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.359 seen him a lot on like Friday leaderboards. He's had 0:22:18.400 --> 0:22:20.720 some weekend troubles, which I think some players need to 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:22.720 learn and go through that, but like it's been on 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:24.520 a lot of leaderboards through two rounds. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:29.720 I think that there needs to be a stat that's 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:34.320 like a number of holes spent on on the first 0:22:34.400 --> 0:22:37.760 page of the leader board. Yeah, I feel like that's 0:22:38.080 --> 0:22:42.000 actually like one of the most telling ways to figure 0:22:42.000 --> 0:22:45.480 out who's going to break out is you know, Jacob 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.399 Bridgeman is a great example. Last year just spent a 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:53.720 ton of time on leaderboards where you know, he he 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:57.200 didn't always have the finishes that you would like, oh, 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.240 like he finished T twenty two, But it's like, but 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:02.480 he was on the first page of the leaderboard for 0:23:02.880 --> 0:23:07.120 significant portions of Saturday and Sunday before he fell down, 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:10.760 And I think there should be a stat Like to me, 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:15.359 it's it's almost like the easiest way to predict breakouts 0:23:15.359 --> 0:23:17.879 to the next year is look for the guy that 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.680 spent you know, had a lot of disappointing finishes given 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.960 how much time he was on the leaderboard on Saturday 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:29.200 and Sunday, And that's the person that's going to take 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.719 away like, Okay, I got in here, and what happened, 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:37.159 Like did I lose my staying in the present, and 0:23:37.600 --> 0:23:39.720 how do we clean that up? And in the offseason 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:43.879 have that time to reflect but also have like just 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.560 the comfort of being there I think that's the thing 0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:49.640 when you when you see these young players kind of struggle. 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:54.280 I mean Thor you saw him it looked like Scottsdale 0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.720 was his tournament, and as soon as that moment hit, 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:00.119 it was like he realized it was his turnament and 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:03.159 sure enough, like the wheels kind of came off and 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:07.760 Chris Gottrup wins. But the you know the idea of 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:12.720 getting just the reps in in the moment, and when 0:24:12.760 --> 0:24:14.480 you look at it year to year, I feel like 0:24:14.560 --> 0:24:18.280 there's there's some correlation as someone who's just followed the 0:24:18.359 --> 0:24:21.840 game for ten years now and they're no, there's no 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.359 stat that really represents that that I'm aware of. 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.280 When in the week would you start that like midday 0:24:27.359 --> 0:24:28.080 Friday or. 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.800 I would start it on on Saturday? Okay, I think 0:24:31.800 --> 0:24:34.720 it's like I feel like the first two days of 0:24:34.760 --> 0:24:39.320 a golf tournament, they're just like playing and there's no 0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:44.879 consciousness of of where I'm at. Something I'd be fascinated 0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:52.640 about is like, what's the percentage of of sub sixty 0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:58.280 six scoring on Thursday and Friday versus the percentage of 0:24:58.440 --> 0:25:04.680 sub sixty six scoring from anybody who who started, you know, 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.680 within the top twenty five on Saturday and Sunday, and 0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:11.480 I think that that number would be a really I 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:15.280 think it'd probably be you know, it'd probably be a 0:25:15.320 --> 0:25:21.680 lot lower on Saturday and Sunday, the percentage. But you say, well, 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:24.720 there's the number of players that could do it is last, 0:25:25.680 --> 0:25:28.440 but you'd also have the qualifier of like, but those 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:30.399 are the guys that are playing their best golf. 0:25:32.480 --> 0:25:34.280 Well that's what made it's so crazy that Scotty led 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:36.560 the tour in first round, second round, third round, and 0:25:36.600 --> 0:25:38.840 fourth round scoring average last year because the third and 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:41.159 fourth rounds he's teeing off last, and usually later in 0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:43.159 the day, it's always like a half stroke, harder, greens 0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:45.720 are chewed up, it's windier. But then also on Saturday 0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:48.240 and Sunday, now you've got like the pressure of contending 0:25:48.320 --> 0:25:50.520 and leading and even despite all that, he's still led 0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:52.320 in score hours on those days. Like that's insane. 0:25:52.880 --> 0:25:56.480 That might be the best Scotty Scheffler stat. Yeah, he's 0:25:56.520 --> 0:26:00.719 cut the tour Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday last year. 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:04.840 Yeah, what do you have next? All right? Next is 0:26:04.880 --> 0:26:08.280 my who is this year's JJ spawn? You know, I 0:26:08.400 --> 0:26:12.160 think TBC Salgass kind of prides itself on that David 0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:14.720 vers Goliath sort of storyline. We get a lot of cinderellas. 0:26:14.760 --> 0:26:18.440 You get your Paulaguidos's your JJ last year. So who 0:26:18.560 --> 0:26:20.040 is that guy this year? And I think part of 0:26:20.040 --> 0:26:22.240 it's the golf course. The golf course is so variable, 0:26:23.080 --> 0:26:25.400 and then also you know the tournament in the course 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:28.120 pride itself on the It doesn't favor a single style 0:26:28.200 --> 0:26:29.639 of play. You have to work it both ways, and 0:26:29.640 --> 0:26:31.000 I think there's part of that. So I think guys 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:33.760 get into contention there because you know, a short hitter 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:36.600 is not automatically disqualified just by the golf course itself. 0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:38.720 There's a lot of ways to kind of skin a 0:26:38.800 --> 0:26:41.280 cat if you will. With the players. So again, trying 0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:43.479 to jam pack my things. I've got four names here. 0:26:43.520 --> 0:26:44.840 I can go one at a time or just list 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:45.199 them off. 0:26:45.320 --> 0:26:49.280 All four, let's let's go go just unload here, all right? 0:26:49.320 --> 0:26:54.199 First one, Jake Knapp, Then we got Pearson Cootie, Ryan Gerard, 0:26:54.280 --> 0:26:56.080 and Min MOULEI are my four guys. 0:26:56.800 --> 0:26:56.919 Uh. 0:26:57.400 --> 0:27:00.840 Jake Napp incredible play this year, worst finishing five starts 0:27:00.880 --> 0:27:03.240 as T eleven. He has one tour win. Kind of 0:27:03.280 --> 0:27:05.719 like spawded and his last year's T twelve with the players. 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.680 So again I think going back that you know, driving 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:10.680 is really emphasized in a March players. That suits Jake 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:11.240 NAP's game. 0:27:12.800 --> 0:27:16.280 I you know, he w d'd late w d at 0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:21.440 at API this week. We're recording this on Friday of API, 0:27:21.640 --> 0:27:23.879 so you know, some of this might be you know, 0:27:24.040 --> 0:27:28.560 moot points. But the Jake Napp I've been I didn't 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.440 really see this leap from him. 0:27:32.160 --> 0:27:32.440 Coming. 0:27:32.880 --> 0:27:35.520 I think, like, you look at him, he's a great putter, 0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.639 and the and the off the t talent was like 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:42.280 really you look at it and it's like, wow, this 0:27:42.480 --> 0:27:44.840 is this makes you drool. But then some of the 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.959 stuff approaching around the greens, you're like, oh man, that's right. 0:27:49.000 --> 0:27:52.000 It's a work in progress. But the way he's tightened 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:55.239 that up in the last year and kind of has 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:59.080 become much more of an all round player is fascinating. 0:27:59.280 --> 0:28:01.040 It Like you know, you think about it is like 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:05.200 TPC Sawgrass does not feel like a Jake Knap fit. 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:08.440 No, but he played well last year. 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:13.560 Yeah, Pierson Cuties I almost put through into that bucket 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:17.280 with the other guys. He's often a great start and 0:28:18.520 --> 0:28:20.240 One of the things I like about Cootie is like 0:28:20.520 --> 0:28:24.080 he's someone who has kind of had to had to 0:28:24.200 --> 0:28:27.280 earn his spot out there where he's He's bounced back 0:28:27.320 --> 0:28:31.680 and forth. It has not been like a a perfectly 0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:35.240 clean ascension to where now he's a top fifty player 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:39.040 in the world. He'll be, I mean, without anything kind 0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:42.520 of crazy happening, the first grandchild of a Master champion 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:45.240 to play the Masters, which is a cool little thing. 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:53.480 But Cooty, you know, he obviously promising player, like incredible 0:28:53.560 --> 0:28:57.080 college career, but he had to bounce back and forth 0:28:57.120 --> 0:28:59.280 between the Core Ferry Tour, and I think that I 0:28:59.360 --> 0:29:03.080 think that does players well when they aren't when things 0:29:03.120 --> 0:29:04.960 aren't perfect yet early in their career. 0:29:05.760 --> 0:29:08.120 It feels like early in his career he was highly volatile, 0:29:08.320 --> 0:29:10.360 Like he won quickly on the corn Ferry Tour, even 0:29:10.400 --> 0:29:12.160 his first tour season, like he was runner up at 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:14.320 the ISCO, lost in the playoff, but like there was 0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:16.680 a lot of miscuts and then occasionally some high finishes 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.320 and like last year he was the highest ranked player 0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:21.080 on the corn Ferry Tour without a win, like just 0:29:21.200 --> 0:29:24.640 consistently T three, T five, playing really well, popped a 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:26.360 couple times on the PGA Tour as well, kind of 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:28.480 split time between the two. And I think kind of 0:29:28.480 --> 0:29:29.959 like Thor, like I said, I think the Bay thing 0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:32.480 was the driving, So he led the tour and tros 0:29:32.520 --> 0:29:34.560 gained off the tee last year after being eighty ninth 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:37.600 the year before, and sort of like Thor, big long 0:29:37.640 --> 0:29:40.080 haitter who was just still losing strokes or not getting 0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.680 a lot off the tee because of penalty, lack of accuracy, etc. 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:46.120 And so I think that was a big part of 0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:48.280 his inconsistency. When it was off, it was off, and 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:50.640 he's really improved that driving, and then you've seen it 0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.760 inconsistency this year with five top twenty fives and six starts. 0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:59.000 You know, the young player who seemingly has everything you 0:29:59.120 --> 0:30:03.440 want off the tee that struggles off the tea. I 0:30:04.760 --> 0:30:07.720 I don't know if this could be it, but could 0:30:07.760 --> 0:30:10.800 it be simply that they're not comfortable playing PGA Tour 0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:16.120 events and there's just a slight, you know, body not 0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:19.840 firing all at the same time because you're a little nervous, 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:22.840 and maybe your tempo gets a little bit quicker, your 0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:26.800 transitions not as smooth. And because I think that's like 0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:28.920 one of the biggest things is that you hit bad 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:32.320 t shots usually when you're uncomfortable, when you're nervous and 0:30:33.160 --> 0:30:37.560 part of me. When you eliminate thor you eliminate Coodie. 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:41.040 Like these guys when you watch them hit a ball 0:30:42.600 --> 0:30:45.560 in college, you're like, oh my god, this guy is 0:30:45.680 --> 0:30:47.480 going to be a load on tour. Look at the 0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:51.240 way he drives it. But they have this initial struggles 0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:54.880 off the tee. Could it just be the ropes, the 0:30:55.000 --> 0:30:57.160 scoreboards and the people. 0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:03.320 Yeah, definitely, could be. Definitely. I think that's actually I 0:31:03.400 --> 0:31:05.560 haven't thought about that. I always think about technique first there, 0:31:05.640 --> 0:31:08.000 but honestly, I could. I could definitely see that being 0:31:08.040 --> 0:31:08.280 a thing. 0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.680 I mean, it's just like comfort and also like you 0:31:11.800 --> 0:31:14.960 don't I think like you go to these new courses 0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:18.400 and you're looking at new windows, windows you've never seen. 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:23.000 There's doubt about is this the right play for me? 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:26.880 Off this tee, even if you know, if you see 0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:29.120 everybody else hitting driver, you might be like, well, this 0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:31.880 doesn't fit my eye well, And then the second go 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:38.080 around everything's more comfortable. You're Golf is such a game 0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:38.720 of comfort. 0:31:39.640 --> 0:31:39.920 It is. 0:31:40.760 --> 0:31:43.920 It's probably the most under talked about but being comfortable 0:31:44.040 --> 0:31:47.240 with where you're staying, being comfortable with where you're eating 0:31:47.480 --> 0:31:50.960 before rounds, what you your routine, what gym you're going to. 0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:53.880 For these guys, most of them go to the fitness 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:58.960 t tent. But like the whole habit, the more times 0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:02.680 you visit a place, the more inevitably more comfortable you get. 0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:06.200 And anybody can relate to this. If you play as 0:32:06.240 --> 0:32:09.520 a guest at somebody's club, you go visit somebody, your 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:12.240 buddy's public golf course. The first time you play, you're 0:32:12.240 --> 0:32:14.200 a little bit blind, and that can be fine, But 0:32:14.320 --> 0:32:17.080 then the second you know, the more often you're there, 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:19.280 the more often you see the shots, the more comfortable 0:32:19.320 --> 0:32:21.840 you get. You get more comfortable just getting there and 0:32:22.040 --> 0:32:24.720 being there. You know where things are. And I wonder 0:32:24.800 --> 0:32:27.920 if that could be why we've seen some young players 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:31.600 that seemingly have all the tools to thrive off the 0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:33.040 tea struggle off the tea. 0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:36.000 I think too, when you're that long and you become 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:38.640 a PGA tour player, there's that maybe doubt about when 0:32:38.720 --> 0:32:41.360 to deploy the weapon. Like party is probably like, well, 0:32:41.360 --> 0:32:43.080 I'm on the tour, now we're going to play smart. 0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:44.640 I'm going to be a mature player. We're going to 0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:46.880 hit less than driver. Then you're also like, well the 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:49.800 analytics say hit driver everywhere and uses your advantage, and 0:32:49.800 --> 0:32:52.560 you're probably stuck a little bit in between when to 0:32:52.640 --> 0:32:54.720 press it and when to not because you probably feel 0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:56.560 like you need to change from college, need to be 0:32:57.160 --> 0:33:00.640 that smarter, more mature course manager. So that could be 0:33:00.760 --> 0:33:01.480 part of it as well. 0:33:02.360 --> 0:33:04.440 Yeah, I mean there's so many things you could pull 0:33:04.480 --> 0:33:06.720 on so many threads here. Also, like the idea of 0:33:06.880 --> 0:33:10.600 the first time you're playing, you know, in thorpe Jornson's case, 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:14.640 like the first time you're playing with like if I 0:33:14.920 --> 0:33:18.080 don't play well, I might lose my card. 0:33:19.800 --> 0:33:22.440 And too's big on the caddy, Like I don't know 0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:24.800 Pearson's caddy situation to be honest, or who's on his 0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:27.520 bag and when they came. But thorpe Jornson started playing 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:29.600 well right around when JJ Jacobac got on the bag. 0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.560 So there's a veteran experienced caddy. Even Chris godr Up 0:33:32.600 --> 0:33:34.520 we saw it last year. You know, he played really 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:36.480 poorly the first half of the year and then he 0:33:36.560 --> 0:33:39.360 wins in Scotland, contends in the Open Makes Tour Championship, 0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:43.240 he's a potential Ryder cup pick and he had changed 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.520 caddies mid year. Also, I think to like a longer, 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:48.080 more tenured caddy, So I mean the caddy is a 0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:49.600 big part of it as well. I think especially when 0:33:49.640 --> 0:33:51.200 guys get on tour. You know a lot of those 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:54.000 seen friends that seeing their peers have friends on the bag, 0:33:54.080 --> 0:33:56.320 and that seems appealing. You don't want to travel the 0:33:56.360 --> 0:33:58.280 country alone. You're going to these new places, you'd like 0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:00.520 to have a friend with you. Some times when they 0:34:00.520 --> 0:34:03.400 switch from that friend to a professional caddy, you see 0:34:03.440 --> 0:34:04.480 a leap in performance. 0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:10.040 Yeah, I you know all these things. I mean, frankly, 0:34:10.400 --> 0:34:13.880 having a regular caddy is something you have to get comfortable. 0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:17.399 With, you know, and I with JJ like you gotta 0:34:17.440 --> 0:34:18.800 wait for the right time for a guy to go 0:34:18.880 --> 0:34:20.480 off of a bag so he's available for you. 0:34:20.480 --> 0:34:23.759 You know. The other thing that you know, everybody who's 0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:26.440 always like talks about caddies with like how their financial 0:34:26.560 --> 0:34:30.279 performance is tied to the player. Nobody ever talks about 0:34:30.360 --> 0:34:33.399 the psychological aspect of a player and knowing the guy 0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:38.560 that you spend we'll call it probably forty hours a 0:34:38.600 --> 0:34:42.759 week with their their financial wellbeing being tied to you 0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:47.560 and that adjustment. Yeah, for sure, especially if it's the 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:49.040 first time you've played for money. 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:50.479 Yeah. 0:34:52.040 --> 0:34:53.960 All right. My next thing is the Brian roll app 0:34:54.680 --> 0:34:59.319 press conference. Obviously that's gonna be a big topic this week, 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:05.000 but we've we've heard breadcrumbs about about the schedule, what 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:08.440 it's going to look like. You know, there's a lot 0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:13.000 of thoughts around that. I am I'm very interested to 0:35:13.120 --> 0:35:16.960 see what comes out of that press conference about because 0:35:17.000 --> 0:35:19.359 it seems like they really want to get a new 0:35:19.480 --> 0:35:23.680 schedule on board in twenty twenty seven and where they're 0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:26.480 at with that, how close they are, because you know, 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:30.400 with with the way tour sponsors and all this stuff 0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.799 works like that, they've got to they've got to get 0:35:34.120 --> 0:35:38.600 that thing out into the world pretty soon. And you know, 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:41.080 and you know, a couple couple of big things from 0:35:41.120 --> 0:35:43.600 that is like how many how many exempt players are there? 0:35:44.760 --> 0:35:47.319 What what are the status of exemptions? I know they 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:50.719 want to get rid of most of them, if not 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:54.200 all of them, What does that look like? But but 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.239 the schedule and you know, really just the first time 0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:02.600 we see the new Sea take over and do this 0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:06.480 big press conference that will be an annual thing going forward. 0:36:07.120 --> 0:36:09.279 Yeah, I think obviously the big word that I think 0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:10.840 has kind of come out of its scarcity, and I 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.279 think I don't know a lot, but I think sometimes 0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:15.319 people take that as like, oh, we're just gonna see 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:17.680 less golf, and I don't necessarily know that's the case, 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:21.480 but I think we've seen it with less cards, right, 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:23.080 and I think sometimes we've even seen the start of 0:36:23.120 --> 0:36:26.200 the year with less cards means more urgency, less spots. 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:28.120 And actually my fourth thing was a little bit related 0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.279 to that of the players field just going from one 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:34.680 forty four to one, it's a it's a big reduction 0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:37.479 in the field. And so for guys who or people 0:36:37.560 --> 0:36:40.160 have opinions on field reduction and what it should look 0:36:40.239 --> 0:36:42.200 like like, this is a good litmus test, like do 0:36:42.280 --> 0:36:44.799 you feel like something was lost this week because there's 0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:46.200 only one hundred and twenty guys? I feel like something 0:36:46.280 --> 0:36:48.400 was gained because of the pace of play or darkness 0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:50.640 or flexibility with you know, when there's delays that kind 0:36:50.640 --> 0:36:51.040 of stuff. 0:36:51.120 --> 0:36:54.680 So you know, what I'm worried about was that reduction 0:36:55.800 --> 0:36:58.680 the number of balls in the water graphics are it 0:36:58.719 --> 0:37:03.440 can be you know, you've lost you've lost forty eight 0:37:03.560 --> 0:37:06.600 chances for a ball in the water on seventeen. 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:08.760 That record might be just set in stone. 0:37:08.800 --> 0:37:12.160 Now they need to statistically adjust for it. 0:37:12.400 --> 0:37:14.360 I've always argued that you need to do those at 0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:17.640 a per player basis because also can do like total 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:21.600 balls in the water since two thousand and three. It's like, well, automatically, 0:37:21.960 --> 0:37:23.840 you are narrowed down to the golf courses have been 0:37:23.960 --> 0:37:26.160 used every year since two thousand and three. You know, 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:28.200 if you were ever like a playoff event where they 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:30.120 only had fifty players in the field versus a full 0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:31.680 field event where they had one hundred and fifty six, 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:33.520 like that affects it. Like there's so many variables and 0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:35.520 we just need to what's the average per player? We 0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:37.799 need a rate basis, not a total sum number. 0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:45.560 I think, you know, while we're here the I think 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:50.160 the seventeenth hole is one of the best, you know, 0:37:50.560 --> 0:37:52.680 tournament holes in the world. And I don't think that's 0:37:52.719 --> 0:37:55.960 like an outlandish take. But when I say that, why 0:37:56.040 --> 0:38:00.239 I say that is I think the best moments and 0:38:00.360 --> 0:38:06.720 tournament golf on TV are are when when holes create 0:38:06.920 --> 0:38:11.560 an urgency for you sitting up in your in your chair, 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:13.520 you know, like. 0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:15.840 You're watching it and you feel nervous, like, man, imagine 0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:17.320 how the guy trying to wain the tournament feels. 0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:21.680 Yes, yes, and it's it's amazing. The other aspect of 0:38:21.840 --> 0:38:25.960 like how you view sawgrass right and why I mean 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.000 everybody talks about the finish. The finish should be studied. 0:38:29.120 --> 0:38:34.120 It is like a to me perfect finishing stretch. Even 0:38:34.160 --> 0:38:37.160 if you go back to fifteen challenging part four, gettable, 0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:41.960 par part five, super risky but gettable par three short 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.840 part three and then hard part four to finish like that. 0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:48.800 Honestly, the entire back nine has those kinds of that 0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:51.080 give and take of sort of like eleven and twelve 0:38:51.200 --> 0:38:53.080 or super birdy holes even thirteen if the pins in 0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:54.800 the right spot, and then fourteen is the most difficult 0:38:54.800 --> 0:38:57.440 hole on the golf course. Fifteen's another tough part five. 0:38:57.600 --> 0:38:58.919 Attack, seeky, hard. 0:38:59.480 --> 0:38:59.719 Yeah. 0:39:02.000 --> 0:39:05.640 But anyways, the thing about seventeen is like it it 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:10.440 actually create it. It is like part of your lens 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:15.080 of how you view the tournament throughout every round and 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:20.400 throughout the finish where somebody could be four up and 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:23.400 it seems like in a lot of tournaments it's just like, Okay, 0:39:23.480 --> 0:39:26.960 he's just skating his way to the finish in this tournament. 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:29.120 In the back of your head's always like, well, he 0:39:29.200 --> 0:39:30.360 has to get past seventeen. 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.759 Yeah, I think too. And one reason why I love 0:39:33.840 --> 0:39:35.839 the tournament and like having been to it so many 0:39:35.880 --> 0:39:37.920 times now is like you really don't until you're in 0:39:38.000 --> 0:39:40.520 person kind of see the proximity of like sixteen Faaraway 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:42.880 and seventeen Green, and like y'all talked about it with 0:39:42.960 --> 0:39:45.879 Pinehurst with the proximity of teas and greens, and Rory 0:39:45.880 --> 0:39:49.560 admitting he was watching Bryson like sixteen Fairaway you look 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:52.040 over seventeen Green feels like it's right there. The tea 0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:54.279 as well. And if you're playing sixteen and a guy 0:39:54.280 --> 0:39:56.560 ahead of you hits in the water or hits it close, 0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:58.600 like you're hearing that. So if guys dump it in 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:00.759 front of you, you're very aware that someone just dumped 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:04.279 in the water. The walk from sixteen to seventeen is cool. 0:40:04.640 --> 0:40:07.080 It's like that little I mean it's an amphitheater. I 0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:09.400 guess that little amphitheater is a pretty cool spot and 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:11.080 a pretty cool scene in tournament golf. 0:40:11.600 --> 0:40:14.280 I would say, you know, I say this pretty confidently. 0:40:14.719 --> 0:40:17.520 I you know, a couple of years ago, I think 0:40:17.560 --> 0:40:20.080 it was the blog Cabin year. It was like twenty eighteen. 0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:25.560 On Saturday, I brought my brother. My brother in law 0:40:25.719 --> 0:40:29.040 was in the in the Navy at this point, and 0:40:29.160 --> 0:40:31.280 I brought him and his friend and they were stationed 0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:34.200 in Jacksonville. I brought him and his friend to the 0:40:34.280 --> 0:40:37.600 Players on Saturday and we basically just hung out on 0:40:37.760 --> 0:40:42.120 seventeen the whole time, and they loved it. I was 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:44.239 with him a couple of weeks ago and he was 0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:46.759 he was like, man, that that time we went to 0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:50.719 the Players was so fun. Like I say this pretty confidently, 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:56.120 I think it's probably the best golf golf tournament experience 0:40:56.160 --> 0:40:59.560 in terms of viewer The stadium course is like legit 0:40:59.719 --> 0:41:03.680 it It's easy to watch golf. The the purpose built 0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:06.600 stadium really works. Garrett's done a bunch of podcasts on this. 0:41:06.760 --> 0:41:09.600 He did a podcast on his Designing Golf recently about this. 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:16.719 But like stadium golf does quantitatively work for the spectator. 0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:19.719 The only thing that's that's challenging about Stodgrass is like 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:20.680 getting to and from it. 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:24.080 It's a disaster, But I mean you can't you can't 0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.520 widen that road unless you bulldozed the pond inning club, 0:41:27.560 --> 0:41:30.120 which you know has a historic golf course on its own, right, So. 0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:33.920 It's that's the only issue is like it's a disaster 0:41:34.040 --> 0:41:36.800 getting in and out. But like for this is the 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:40.360 one to me as just a regular spectator to go to. 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:42.200 It's a good It's also it's not if you get 0:41:42.200 --> 0:41:44.239 there early. Like, look, the Starbucks by the golf course 0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:46.799 opens at five. You're just south, you know, get there, 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:49.120 read a paper, read a magazine, hang out for an hour, 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:51.279 and then go watch guys worm for the first tea time. 0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:52.120 It's great. 0:41:52.560 --> 0:41:54.600 I mean, are are you going to give that advice 0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:58.320 to someone with with a with a with kids? 0:41:58.840 --> 0:42:01.600 Look, I have three kidsunderstand no that I want. 0:42:01.480 --> 0:42:03.880 To be like kids were getting up at four thirty. 0:42:04.040 --> 0:42:06.279 We're going to hang out at the Starbucks for a while, 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:09.160 and we're gonna make it at the golf tournament till 0:42:09.600 --> 0:42:12.879 ten am. That's when we're gonna preach our expiration point. 0:42:14.000 --> 0:42:15.800 The thing actually that I wish we'd bring back on 0:42:15.880 --> 0:42:17.960 the mounds because the spectator mounds are awesome, Like you 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.359 can just lay down and you can just watch golf. 0:42:21.840 --> 0:42:25.279 They used to have built in like stairs in there, 0:42:25.480 --> 0:42:27.279 so they had like the staircase. You could sit on 0:42:27.360 --> 0:42:30.160 the steps and it was a great look. I mean, honestly, 0:42:30.160 --> 0:42:32.560 around the first t was this big grass mound with 0:42:33.239 --> 0:42:36.600 rows of seats carved into it. It was kind of crazy. 0:42:37.800 --> 0:42:41.000 It's uh, I love the old pictures of Soccrass. I 0:42:42.160 --> 0:42:45.040 they did they did some changes for this year. 0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:48.600 Nothing this year that's major, But I do think there 0:42:48.719 --> 0:42:51.719 is some work coming to like bring some of that 0:42:51.840 --> 0:42:54.040 character back into the greens. And I mean you talk 0:42:54.040 --> 0:42:56.600 about these little plateaus and little portions of the greens 0:42:56.640 --> 0:42:58.759 that guys freaked out about back in nineteen eighty two. 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:00.640 Those have been softened, but I think some we're coming back. 0:43:01.640 --> 0:43:03.880 It's it's amazing to me when you look at the 0:43:04.000 --> 0:43:08.239 die legacy of like sagra the the what the ways 0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:12.920 Sagrass was portrayed by players and uh and also than 0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:18.160 Pja West his two big stadium courses, and then years 0:43:18.239 --> 0:43:21.800 later how it's just accepted and it's like a great 0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:26.799 reminder of initial reactions or often times the worst reactions. 0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:31.040 But now there's this this desire to go back to. 0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:32.080 What it was. 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:34.600 Oh you know what that actually reminds me I left off. 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:36.320 And this is for Joseph. I left off one of 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:40.279 my cinderellas, my JJ spawns. I had two p die specialists. 0:43:41.280 --> 0:43:43.320 It was Ryan Gerrard. He finished runner by am actually 0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:46.359 tied with Matt McCarty, who Matt's kind of fit into 0:43:46.400 --> 0:43:50.000 that like more control player, not the longest, but a 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:53.279 good ball striker, solid, you know, straight driver and has 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:55.480 I mean played so well as Master's debut last year. 0:43:55.560 --> 0:43:57.279 But Matt McCarty also was on my list. I know 0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:58.200 Joseph's high on him. 0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:02.240 I you know, I I have an affinity for Matt McCarty. 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:02.799 Do you know why? 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:06.799 Because he's the Utah player, so he can handle golf courses, 0:44:06.840 --> 0:44:07.719 their penal off the tee. 0:44:08.800 --> 0:44:13.520 He he calls Chicago's home, that's right, he's Amber right, 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:17.520 lives in Chicago. Yeah so he I mean he's there 0:44:17.560 --> 0:44:18.000 in the winter. 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:20.880 That's so, he's full time Chicago. 0:44:21.080 --> 0:44:22.880 He lives in the city of Chicago. 0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:26.240 Do you know why? Just wants to experience. 0:44:26.280 --> 0:44:29.520 I think it's his girlfriend or wife. I need to 0:44:29.600 --> 0:44:31.520 talk to him more. I got to have him on 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:32.080 the podcast. 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:33.680 Maybe she's doing like a medical is she doing a 0:44:33.719 --> 0:44:34.920 medical residency or something? 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:38.600 I you know, all the way I found that out 0:44:38.800 --> 0:44:40.759 was when he was doing the Get a Grip with 0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:42.960 Bacon and I asked where to send a mic to 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:45.120 and he sent me this address. It's like what you 0:44:45.239 --> 0:44:46.080 live in Chicago. 0:44:48.880 --> 0:44:51.400 And he's a MEDNA member, right right, I believe. 0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:54.600 Maybe maybe a MEDNA member. Maybe I'm not sure. 0:44:55.280 --> 0:44:58.040 So he's he's looking hard at you know, President's Cup spot. 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:01.560 I'm exed I did about the President's Cup this year. 0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:02.560 It's gonna be great. 0:45:03.239 --> 0:45:06.920 This is gonna be a good time. The uh but yeah, 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:11.440 I mean Matt McCarty, Girard Girard is uh, I loved 0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.440 I loved the tour. The tour did of his of 0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:15.279 his house. 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:17.520 In credit to him for letting letting the cameras in 0:45:17.600 --> 0:45:19.000 his place, and a lot of players would do that. 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:21.680 Girard though, is I mean, he's like if you're a 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:25.880 golf guy, like he is awesome. Like I've seen him 0:45:25.880 --> 0:45:28.120 out there with like titleists. He's just hitting one hundred 0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:30.440 hybrids trying to find the right hybrid. Like he just 0:45:30.600 --> 0:45:33.239 loved Like we always want our tour players to like 0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:35.239 love golf like he as a golf and you want 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:37.319 the guy to feel the same way you do about golf. 0:45:37.360 --> 0:45:39.520 And I guess Gerard like Girard is a golf like 0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:41.840 sicko golf nut, and it's awesome. 0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:45.680 I think the vast majority of people that listened to 0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:49.120 this podcast followed the bucket of like golf nut. I 0:45:49.280 --> 0:45:50.800 do think, and I don't want to get you in 0:45:50.920 --> 0:45:53.360 any trouble. I do think one of the more depressing 0:45:54.040 --> 0:45:57.200 aspects of the PGA tours how many of the players 0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:59.400 would fall into like they just do this because they 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:01.680 get paid a lot out of money. They don't really 0:46:01.800 --> 0:46:02.399 love the game. 0:46:02.640 --> 0:46:03.359 But it's hard. 0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:05.080 It happens like it happens when it becomes work. I 0:46:05.080 --> 0:46:07.160 think when you started the Friday you probably loved like 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:09.719 writing and opening and getting to produce content. And then 0:46:09.719 --> 0:46:12.320 after like ten years and a family and all this, 0:46:12.480 --> 0:46:14.239 you're like, gosh, I got to bang out this, you 0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:16.400 know thing for the newsletter. Kvv's all over me like 0:46:16.480 --> 0:46:18.680 it it things become work. I remember I talked to 0:46:18.680 --> 0:46:20.680 it was a multiple major champion. We asked I think 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:22.359 we're doing like one of those survey things like what's 0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:25.880 your favorite you know, recreational golf round you played in 0:46:25.920 --> 0:46:29.040 the last five years or favorite golf course you played 0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:31.520 not on tour, And the guy was like, I don't 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:34.320 play recreational golf, Like it's just it's become work, like 0:46:34.960 --> 0:46:37.920 things become work. So I understand it, but it is 0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:40.080 nice when you find a guy who just like loves golf. 0:46:40.760 --> 0:46:43.840 I'll leave the name out of this, but I'll never forget. 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:48.000 I was talking to a tour player who's an absolute 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:51.480 golf nut. I'll leave all the names out of this, 0:46:52.360 --> 0:46:55.800 and was riding in a car and looked out the 0:46:55.840 --> 0:46:59.600 window and was like, oh my god, this that golf 0:46:59.640 --> 0:47:02.880 course looks sick. We should we should stop and play it. 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:07.520 And the other player in his car in the car 0:47:07.760 --> 0:47:13.480 was like like exhaled and was like you you want 0:47:13.520 --> 0:47:17.399 to just stop there and play? And he was like yeah, 0:47:17.440 --> 0:47:20.320 I mean it looks great and along the you know, 0:47:20.440 --> 0:47:23.000 this was years ago, and he was like, dude, you 0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:28.719 actually like playing recreational golf. And it's like it's kind 0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:32.960 of crazy how there is like an overriding belief of that, 0:47:33.080 --> 0:47:35.279 but that you're right. It is when things turn into 0:47:35.320 --> 0:47:38.399 your job, you know. I tell people this all the time. 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:41.239 I love what I do. I love what I do. 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:46.200 I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't feel like 0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:49.479 I work on a daily basis, no matter what part 0:47:49.520 --> 0:47:52.080 of the job that I'm doing, unless it's my taxes, 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:53.960 I don't feel like I'm I'm working. 0:47:55.800 --> 0:47:56.120 But the. 0:47:57.800 --> 0:48:00.320 You know, the thing that I have lost is a 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:03.600 little bit of my hobby, Like I don't I play 0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:09.359 so little golf for myself anymore. And that's the one 0:48:09.440 --> 0:48:11.759 thing I missed. But that's just I think it's more 0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:14.600 like the life situation I'm in. If I wasn't doing this, 0:48:14.920 --> 0:48:17.200 I would have lost a lot of my hobby of 0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:21.040 golf also because of where I am in life. But 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:26.279 you know that that it's hard. It's hard, you know. 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:29.040 That's why I love hearing about like guys that go 0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:32.000 on golf trips, that play on the PJ Tour, or 0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:36.240 you get the tour of Ryan Gerard's whatever was house 0:48:36.320 --> 0:48:40.160 or apartment, and it's just literally golf clubs everywhere. 0:48:41.080 --> 0:48:43.320 Yeah, orn't even the fact we went to Mauritius to 0:48:43.520 --> 0:48:45.000 you know, try to qualify for the Masters. 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:49.080 Yeah, I mean Xellaturus on this pod was saying he's 0:48:49.239 --> 0:48:52.640 he might go to like South Africa to try and 0:48:52.760 --> 0:48:53.840 qualify for the Masters. 0:48:54.360 --> 0:48:58.120 Yeah. That Ogilby fits in that vein as well, so 0:48:58.280 --> 0:49:00.719 dj By House and I went to Chambers before or sorry, 0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:03.280 I went to Bandon before the US Open at Chambers 0:49:03.800 --> 0:49:05.520 and we get there and I think we were his 0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:08.000 breakfast one morning. Everyone's like, oh, Jeff Ogolviy's here, and 0:49:08.080 --> 0:49:10.279 he was in the US Open, still exempt off his 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:12.160 wing foot win and he was just like at breakfast 0:49:12.280 --> 0:49:14.319 with everyone else eating and he was gonna go play 0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:15.920 thirty six abandon and then he's gonna go play the 0:49:16.040 --> 0:49:18.480 US Open a couple of days later, and like it's 0:49:18.560 --> 0:49:20.920 just awesome to see because you're just you're so shocked 0:49:20.960 --> 0:49:23.279 to see someone doing that as well, because they're about 0:49:23.280 --> 0:49:24.799 to have a really long and stressful week of US 0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:27.200 Open and they should most guys just be a home 0:49:27.239 --> 0:49:30.040 relaxing and he's playing Bandon with a bunch of randos. 0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:32.400 Well, that's the thing that's been lost with this, like 0:49:32.520 --> 0:49:35.560 almost like load management of tour players where we only 0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:39.600 played nine hole practice rounds is like even the idea 0:49:39.640 --> 0:49:43.239 of going and playing somewhere the week of Alla. You 0:49:43.360 --> 0:49:46.439 think about Ben Crenshaw putting crystal downs on the map 0:49:46.840 --> 0:49:50.319 when he when he built or when he went went 0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:53.840 there the week of it was a Buick Open and 0:49:54.200 --> 0:49:57.400 played crystal downs the week he won the Buick Open 0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:00.800 and you know it's four hours away. You know, he 0:50:01.320 --> 0:50:03.560 just couldn't not go see that golf course. 0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:06.160 But you know it's probably it's a key to longevity 0:50:06.280 --> 0:50:08.600 in some way. It definitely helps. I think Keith burnout 0:50:08.640 --> 0:50:10.760 at Bay like you look at I mean, Scotty loves playing. 0:50:11.239 --> 0:50:13.080 I mean he mostly plays at Royal Oaks, but he 0:50:13.200 --> 0:50:16.040 loves playing with members there and you know, having handicapped 0:50:16.080 --> 0:50:19.160 games with like ten and fifteen handicaps, and like from 0:50:19.160 --> 0:50:21.560 all accounts, he's a maniac. Brodo E Miller wrote a 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:24.640 great story on it that like he goes full board 0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:26.840 trying to beat these guys he's given twenty strokes to. 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:30.400 And you know Rory obviously, I think it feels like 0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:32.319 Rory's fallen back in love with the game. That there 0:50:32.360 --> 0:50:33.920 are maybe some years that he didn't love it, but 0:50:33.960 --> 0:50:36.279 then as he's gotten older, like he's fallen more in 0:50:36.360 --> 0:50:39.440 love with like going places and seeing courses and playing recreationally, 0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.040 and that might be one reason for his longevity and 0:50:42.160 --> 0:50:44.680 kind of this like second half success he's had in 0:50:44.680 --> 0:50:46.160 the last you know, five six years. 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:49.160 Yeah, it feels like you have to be just a 0:50:50.239 --> 0:50:55.960 complete competitive psycho mhm. Or you have to just love 0:50:56.080 --> 0:51:01.680 the game so much. Yeah, for a long career. My 0:51:02.320 --> 0:51:05.640 last thing is, uh, this is our our show me 0:51:05.800 --> 0:51:10.399 something checkpoint on the I've got some names to throw 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:12.960 at you that you know. I would say that we 0:51:14.000 --> 0:51:17.320 expected some big things from and and just have not 0:51:17.560 --> 0:51:22.280 seen much of anything from uh this year. Relative basis 0:51:23.400 --> 0:51:24.400 h Victor Hovland. 0:51:25.239 --> 0:51:29.000 Yeah, coaching change for Victor, so. 0:51:30.760 --> 0:51:34.600 Teach the world turns and as Victor changes coaches. 0:51:35.160 --> 0:51:37.560 Well, I mean we did a sit down interview with him. 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:38.960 We do a kind of a car wash where guys 0:51:39.000 --> 0:51:41.480 coming from fifteen minutes of the time, and we were 0:51:41.520 --> 0:51:43.319 just asking general questions about the season. I'm like, oh, 0:51:43.320 --> 0:51:45.319 you're still working with Grant. He goes no, he goes 0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:47.440 TJ y Eaton. I go oh when that start. He's like, 0:51:47.480 --> 0:51:50.439 oh last week and he was there's a social post 0:51:50.480 --> 0:51:53.520 he was wins TJ at Dubai in twenty twenty five. 0:51:54.000 --> 0:51:56.040 Then he went back to Grant Waite, who had been 0:51:56.080 --> 0:51:58.520 working with previously around I think bay Hill of last 0:51:58.600 --> 0:52:02.200 year and was with him until I guess last week, 0:52:02.320 --> 0:52:05.279 and then now he's back with with TJ, who also 0:52:05.760 --> 0:52:08.120 is the coach of ben Crane, who's you know, you've 0:52:08.120 --> 0:52:09.400 talked about about to go on a run on the 0:52:09.520 --> 0:52:13.439 Champions Tour. So he could. If he turns Victor around, 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:15.319 he gets ben Crane into a world beater. I mean, 0:52:15.600 --> 0:52:17.840 could be a stock rising for TJ eaton. 0:52:18.160 --> 0:52:20.640 Today's Today's the start of the ben Crane era on 0:52:20.920 --> 0:52:25.960 on the Champions Tour. We're recording this on Friday. Is 0:52:26.120 --> 0:52:29.480 everybody's looking at Zach Zach Johnson and what he's gonna do. 0:52:30.040 --> 0:52:33.240 I've been told by source of ben Crane is a problem. 0:52:35.880 --> 0:52:39.080 So we got Victor. I mean Victor. You know you 0:52:39.160 --> 0:52:43.359 talk about like having characters on tour, right, having someone 0:52:43.400 --> 0:52:46.759 who's perpetually unhappy with where their golf swing at is 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:52.080 that is great for the tour, very relatable too well. 0:52:52.120 --> 0:52:54.120 And Victor the funny thing is like he doesn't tire 0:52:54.200 --> 0:52:58.640 about talking about it like you would think that, I mean, 0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:01.560 because all people ask him about and it's almost it's 0:53:01.560 --> 0:53:02.800 got to the point now where really, I think for 0:53:02.840 --> 0:53:04.200 a while we thought he was on this journey to 0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:08.000 remake his swing, and you know, maybe he was unhappy 0:53:08.040 --> 0:53:09.400 with one thing and he went down a road. But 0:53:09.480 --> 0:53:11.239 like now it's just it's the new normal, Like it's 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:13.800 the normal for Victor. Like if he's ever been a 0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:17.719 point where he's not changing like coaches or trying new drills, like, 0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:19.759 then we're like, oh, something new has happened. But I 0:53:19.800 --> 0:53:22.920 think that I think honestly, it's just Victor's it's just Victor, 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:25.040 like I at this point, I think it's the it's 0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:25.759 normal for him. 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:30.320 Yeah, it's uh, I mean, it's amazing, it's it's a 0:53:30.400 --> 0:53:32.719 great aspect to have. I just would like him to 0:53:32.760 --> 0:53:33.560 play better golf. 0:53:34.560 --> 0:53:35.680 Yeah, no, one hundred percent. 0:53:36.440 --> 0:53:40.560 It's fascinating to have somebody that gets to basically where 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:44.319 everybody's like, maybe he's the number one player in the world. Yeah, 0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:48.239 and all of a sudden, it's like, oh, he just 0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:51.160 blew everything up. 0:53:51.680 --> 0:53:51.879 Yeah. 0:53:53.360 --> 0:53:53.480 Uh. 0:53:53.760 --> 0:53:56.000 Well. The thing with him too, he's so smart that 0:53:56.080 --> 0:53:59.279 I think he like started pulling it one string, but 0:53:59.360 --> 0:54:01.480 then and then the you just start, the whole ball 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:05.240 starts unraveling and you you know, you're dealing with matchups 0:54:05.239 --> 0:54:07.680 and things like that, And so I think that and 0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:09.239 he's not a guy who's gonna be intent with like hey, 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:10.840 feel like you bow your risk little bit. More like 0:54:10.920 --> 0:54:12.759 he's not that's not going to do it for him. 0:54:13.640 --> 0:54:13.840 I was. 0:54:14.000 --> 0:54:16.399 I was telling somebody the other day, I haven't gotten 0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:21.560 a lesson in eight years, and you know, I feel 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:25.000 like I play about as well as I played when 0:54:25.040 --> 0:54:28.719 I played. I mean, I'm not quite as good, but 0:54:29.080 --> 0:54:31.120 you know, but one of the things is, like I 0:54:31.239 --> 0:54:34.160 know my golf swing yep, and like one of my 0:54:34.320 --> 0:54:37.560 fears of if I went and got a lesson or 0:54:38.080 --> 0:54:40.680 did work on it is what you just said is 0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:45.160 that if you pull one string, something else on strings 0:54:46.080 --> 0:54:49.719 and there is like you look at what Scotty does. 0:54:50.440 --> 0:54:55.839 Scotty's Scotty's got the most self awareness of his golf 0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:58.719 swing because they just work on the same stuff. Yeah, 0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:03.200 you know, they've never they've never pulled a string. That's 0:55:03.360 --> 0:55:05.000 undid three other things. 0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:09.200 I think. So the coaches for like Scotty and even 0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:10.799 like got Her Up. Got Ups had the same coach, 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:14.000 Jason Bernbaum, since he was a kid. Like those coaches 0:55:14.080 --> 0:55:16.839 to not change that stuff, but to make it better 0:55:16.960 --> 0:55:20.800 without like wholesale changing it deserves a lot of credit, 0:55:20.880 --> 0:55:22.279 first of all. But it's just I mean, that's that's 0:55:22.440 --> 0:55:26.440 the essence of great teaching, where you're working within someone's framework, 0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:28.719 you're not completely changing them, but you are making them better. 0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:33.040 Like Scotty's swing has a lot of really unique things 0:55:33.120 --> 0:55:34.480 in it that you wouldn't teach. I'm not even really 0:55:34.520 --> 0:55:38.200 talking about the feet either, Like it's there's just a 0:55:38.239 --> 0:55:40.040 lot of it's very unique and his owns it and 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:42.120 it's crazy. This week, though, he talked about when he 0:55:42.160 --> 0:55:43.480 came out of college. He's like, yeah, I wasn't a 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:45.479 very good ballstriker coming out of college, Like that wasn't 0:55:46.160 --> 0:55:48.640 seven years ago. Like He's like, I think I could 0:55:48.680 --> 0:55:50.560 have been, but there was still too much wrong in 0:55:50.640 --> 0:55:53.040 my swing. He's like, twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, I 0:55:53.120 --> 0:55:55.759 became a better ball striker. And so you're talking about 0:55:55.760 --> 0:55:57.560 a guy who went from like twenty nineteen to really 0:55:58.480 --> 0:56:01.000 twenty twenty three, he really of established themselves as the 0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:03.120 best ball striker on tour and it was very obvious. 0:56:03.200 --> 0:56:05.040 Like so in four years he went from what he 0:56:05.080 --> 0:56:07.239 would call like not a good ball striker, obviously different 0:56:07.280 --> 0:56:10.279 standards than what we would have to the best one, 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:12.080 unrivaled in the year. It's kind of crazy. 0:56:13.120 --> 0:56:13.680 It's crazy. 0:56:13.800 --> 0:56:15.080 But also if he looked at his swing, I don't 0:56:15.080 --> 0:56:16.960 think you would see like an insane difference. It's not 0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:20.919 like he you know, totally overhauled it. Yeah. 0:56:21.120 --> 0:56:23.799 I that's the thing. I think it just a lot 0:56:23.840 --> 0:56:26.680 of it was like I think so much of it 0:56:26.840 --> 0:56:30.040 is just understanding your swing. Yeah, but if you're in 0:56:30.120 --> 0:56:32.360 a perpetual state of change, you can never get to 0:56:32.400 --> 0:56:34.640 a point where you actually understand the swing. 0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:35.040 Yeah. 0:56:36.280 --> 0:56:38.640 And I think in Victor's case, he might just understand 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:42.200 too much of it and and be like I hate 0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:46.920 this right as opposed to like I think Scotty accepted 0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:48.080 this is. 0:56:48.880 --> 0:56:51.000 What it is well, and like Mari Kawa talked about 0:56:51.160 --> 0:56:52.680 at Pebble, is like, you know, I was being too 0:56:52.760 --> 0:56:55.000 much of a perfectionist and trying to just like be 0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:58.000 this like Robot and I went back to just kind 0:56:58.040 --> 0:56:59.640 of playing golf. And I think Scotty is like the 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:01.880 epitiom of just playing golf. But I think Victor is 0:57:01.880 --> 0:57:04.280 in that stage that Colin was talking about, like perfection, 0:57:04.440 --> 0:57:06.440 like he always talks about, you know, if it's not 0:57:06.480 --> 0:57:07.920 coming out of the right window, I don't like it. 0:57:08.080 --> 0:57:09.799 I don't care where it shows up. And Colin did 0:57:09.840 --> 0:57:10.319 that last year. 0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:10.640 Colin. 0:57:10.880 --> 0:57:12.600 People will be like, oh, you led the field and 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:14.200 strops gain approach and he's like, I don't care. I 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:16.520 hate it. I missed left too many times, like I 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:18.440 wasn't fading the way I wanted, Like I don't care 0:57:18.480 --> 0:57:21.160 what the stats say. And it's like, well, I get that, 0:57:21.360 --> 0:57:24.000 and you want to be You want it to look 0:57:24.040 --> 0:57:25.520 a certain way and to feel a certain way. But 0:57:25.600 --> 0:57:28.040 like if the stats say you're the best on tour 0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:32.040 at it, like you probably just maybe accept it so 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:33.160 you don't drive yourself crazy. 0:57:34.040 --> 0:57:38.080 It's you have to get to a state of comfort 0:57:38.120 --> 0:57:40.440 to play your best golf. And that that's where I 0:57:40.600 --> 0:57:43.920 have like a hard time with the constant changes. Are 0:57:43.960 --> 0:57:48.080 you ever getting comfortable enough to win a major championship 0:57:49.080 --> 0:57:51.480 is like a big question for me, And you know, 0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:55.320 hopefully for for golf's sake, I would love Victor Hovlin 0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:57.360 to win a major championship. I think he's one of 0:57:57.400 --> 0:57:59.720 the best characters in the sport. I hope that it 0:57:59.800 --> 0:58:02.959 comes back and he ends up in his best self 0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:06.200 he's ever been because of all all these changes and 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:08.840 and you know, and win something this year. 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.840 He'd probably benefit hugely from getting married and having a kid. 0:58:12.360 --> 0:58:14.480 Like some guys, they lose skill because then they used 0:58:14.520 --> 0:58:15.960 to practice all day and now they can't like that 0:58:16.040 --> 0:58:18.520 actually might be we might need to maybe need to 0:58:18.560 --> 0:58:19.360 find victorial wife. 0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:25.240 It's that I like that take actually a lot. He 0:58:25.360 --> 0:58:30.960 needs less time to think about his golf swing. Next 0:58:31.040 --> 0:58:35.120 on the list, I got Xander. I think it's inconceivable, 0:58:35.600 --> 0:58:38.200 uh to think about, you know, two years ago, him 0:58:38.240 --> 0:58:40.320 being like a fringe top ten player in the world. 0:58:40.960 --> 0:58:45.040 But we're here, Uh you know, he's he's two bad 0:58:45.080 --> 0:58:47.600 weeks effectively away from being outside the top ten in 0:58:47.640 --> 0:58:50.440 the world golf rankings. Uh, you know, and obviously he 0:58:50.520 --> 0:58:54.000 had the injury last year. I just we got to 0:58:54.040 --> 0:58:56.880 get a run of good play from him because he 0:58:57.120 --> 0:59:01.160 was on the level of you know, maybe not. I mean, god, 0:59:01.240 --> 0:59:04.520 in twenty four it was like is Xander as good 0:59:04.560 --> 0:59:05.120 as Scottie? 0:59:05.520 --> 0:59:05.720 Yeah? 0:59:06.320 --> 0:59:09.120 And now two years later it's like, is he I'm 0:59:09.120 --> 0:59:10.560 at the point where it's like, is he one of 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:12.040 the twenty best players in the world. 0:59:12.600 --> 0:59:15.760 Yeah. You know what's been really depressing is I texted 0:59:15.800 --> 0:59:18.840 PJ about, you know, big New York Golf Club matchup 0:59:18.920 --> 0:59:21.800 and he's like, we stink like this season's over, like 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:24.800 lost cause. So, I mean it's had effect on NYGC 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:26.320 as well. It's really brought PJ down. 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:29.360 I mean he doesn't even want to stander in the lineup. 0:59:30.440 --> 0:59:33.600 Well, yeah, which I mean then to the problem then too, 0:59:33.680 --> 0:59:36.000 I think, is you know, then how does Steve Cohen's 0:59:36.040 --> 0:59:38.360 other team perform? You know, we don't know. That's I 0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:39.480 think that's what Pj's really worth. 0:59:39.840 --> 0:59:44.080 Your team's ruining baseball. So I hope you enjoy the 0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:49.360 lockout in twenty twenty seven. That's that's fueled by your Dodgers, Xander. 0:59:49.360 --> 0:59:51.200 I mean, luckily I'm looking at leaderboard because it is Friday. 0:59:51.200 --> 0:59:53.080 He did shoot sixty eight yesterday at bay Hill, which 0:59:53.200 --> 0:59:56.120 was a great score. He did win the Bay Current. 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:59.280 You know, he won over in Japan. He did speak 0:59:59.320 --> 1:00:00.920 about what we just did with Victor like he did 1:00:01.000 --> 1:00:05.439 just have a child or his wife did so injury child. 1:00:05.480 --> 1:00:10.360 There's been a lot of adjustments. I don't know. I'm bullish. 1:00:10.400 --> 1:00:13.520 I think we'll get there. He probably spent a lot 1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:14.840 of off season with the kid. 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:17.240 And I don't know how we got to the place 1:00:17.280 --> 1:00:20.640 where people thought that like a kid, you know that 1:00:20.760 --> 1:00:25.480 I love. I don't know how. I'm not saying don't 1:00:25.520 --> 1:00:28.560 have kids. I'm not saying this, but I don't know 1:00:28.680 --> 1:00:32.000 how we got to spot where people at one point 1:00:32.200 --> 1:00:34.480 was like having a kid's good for pro golfers. 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:37.000 Well, we just said about Victor. 1:00:37.200 --> 1:00:40.160 I think it's a very special case when it's good, 1:00:40.320 --> 1:00:43.400 Like like, you can't tell me that there are like 1:00:44.520 --> 1:00:48.880 attributes that are good for your pursuit of pro golf. 1:00:49.600 --> 1:00:51.720 Well, I do think it is. I mean, what's better. 1:00:51.840 --> 1:00:53.240 Is it better you go back to otellrom when you 1:00:53.240 --> 1:00:54.960 play with your kid, or you go back to hotel 1:00:55.000 --> 1:00:56.600 room and you start like fiddling with your grip and 1:00:56.680 --> 1:00:59.480 looking at your takeaway, And like I mean, for some guys, 1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:02.320 some guy's probably the latter, some guy's the former. But 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.400 so I think I think just getting your mind off 1:01:05.400 --> 1:01:06.720 of golf, if you have a tendency to go too 1:01:06.800 --> 1:01:08.600 much down that road, I think that's the good stuff. 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.040 It is is a case by case basis. You're right, 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:13.040 you're right, You're absolutely right. 1:01:14.640 --> 1:01:15.040 You know that. 1:01:15.240 --> 1:01:19.400 Kevin KVVU interview with Rory, he talked about how it's 1:01:19.480 --> 1:01:22.480 like I just go play with my kid. Yeah, yeah, 1:01:23.760 --> 1:01:27.320 all right. Ben Griffin the delight the breakout of last year. 1:01:28.040 --> 1:01:30.080 He hasn't done much this year. And I think this 1:01:30.200 --> 1:01:32.280 is a guy that everybody was kind of like okay, 1:01:32.440 --> 1:01:35.680 like he's going to be a major competitor. It's obviously 1:01:35.800 --> 1:01:38.920 early in the year, and we saw Ben Griffin plays 1:01:38.960 --> 1:01:42.560 Best Golf like kind of like this point forward last year. 1:01:43.920 --> 1:01:45.400 But he's I mean, he's playing his. 1:01:45.440 --> 1:01:49.880 First Masters this year, right, so so is Chris Goto. 1:01:50.680 --> 1:01:53.360 Yeah, I it's fascinating. 1:01:53.600 --> 1:01:53.720 You know. 1:01:53.800 --> 1:01:55.800 We talked I think we talked about this with Ludwig, 1:01:55.880 --> 1:01:58.640 who's also on my list but who played really well 1:01:58.720 --> 1:02:02.440 yesterday at bay Hill. But Ludwig was like, it was like, 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:06.919 is this the highest the most you know, highest ranked 1:02:06.960 --> 1:02:10.120 player to ever make a Master's debut. When Ludwig came through, 1:02:10.200 --> 1:02:11.720 I think it was like four or five, and then 1:02:11.720 --> 1:02:14.480 he contended but got her ups right there too. Yeah, 1:02:15.000 --> 1:02:18.720 you know, but Ben Griffin and Ludwig kind of round 1:02:18.760 --> 1:02:21.400 out the players. I just want to see something from them, 1:02:22.760 --> 1:02:25.840 and Ludwig might be you know, as I said, we're 1:02:25.840 --> 1:02:29.800 recording this Friday at bay Hill. He's in second place 1:02:29.920 --> 1:02:31.840 right now at bay Hill going into today. 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:33.680 I think a couple of guys I was looking at 1:02:33.800 --> 1:02:36.560 JJ Spawn and I'd read something about some vertigo, which 1:02:36.560 --> 1:02:38.920 was kind of thing mentioned offhand. But that's obviously a 1:02:39.040 --> 1:02:44.280 terrifying affliction for a golfer. But I mean, JJ was 1:02:44.360 --> 1:02:47.400 like one of the great stories last year and I 1:02:47.520 --> 1:02:51.280 really enjoy like watching JJ play golf. JJ's a great personality. 1:02:51.280 --> 1:02:53.360 I would like to see him play well, hopefully. And 1:02:53.440 --> 1:02:55.920 then Justin Thomas, who I mean obviously Bay Hills his 1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:58.360 first start of the year, but as we talk Friday afternoon, 1:02:58.400 --> 1:03:02.280 he's fourteen over through twelve holes of his second round 1:03:02.320 --> 1:03:04.720 and he's in last by seven. Now, you hope it's 1:03:04.840 --> 1:03:07.120 just rust and you just got to get some reps. 1:03:07.160 --> 1:03:09.080 But like he loves tc Sawgrass. I think it's his 1:03:09.160 --> 1:03:11.600 favorite course on tour. He's had a ton of success 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:15.240 at TPC. So you just hope that this player's week, 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:19.360 you know, you see something definitely better than what we're 1:03:19.360 --> 1:03:21.360 seeing this week at bay Hill, and that it's just 1:03:21.400 --> 1:03:22.880 maybe he tried to shake off some rust. 1:03:23.360 --> 1:03:27.280 Yeah. I was thinking about jt on here and I 1:03:27.480 --> 1:03:31.760 just you know, in good faith with a major back surgery. Yeah, 1:03:32.240 --> 1:03:35.000 I feel like we got to give them, yeah, two 1:03:35.120 --> 1:03:40.160 months to work things out, which unfortunately for him and 1:03:40.640 --> 1:03:42.840 just the way the schedule is constructed now it's just 1:03:43.840 --> 1:03:48.680 two months and the season's basically over. Yeah, that does 1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:50.440 it for me? You got an odds and ends? 1:03:51.360 --> 1:03:52.360 No, those are my things. 1:03:54.400 --> 1:03:54.760 That was it. 1:03:55.520 --> 1:03:57.320 That's good. Who's your pick? 1:03:58.120 --> 1:04:02.120 Who's my pick? Man? Honest, you know, think of that 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:02.600 as a thing. 1:04:03.160 --> 1:04:03.360 I know. 1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:06.720 It's the problem with this, this this format. I like 1:04:06.800 --> 1:04:09.880 getting it out early, giving people a table setter for 1:04:09.960 --> 1:04:12.640 the week, but you know, making a pick, uh, this 1:04:12.800 --> 1:04:13.440 earliest heart. 1:04:14.440 --> 1:04:16.680 Let's scroll down to the O w JR. A little bit. 1:04:16.880 --> 1:04:19.640 Uh, I mean I kind of. 1:04:20.160 --> 1:04:21.200 I mean, I'm Scottie. 1:04:22.880 --> 1:04:26.760 You can't go wrong there, right, Maybe you can't. Yeah, 1:04:26.960 --> 1:04:31.880 I uh, you know, they all go Russell Henley said. 1:04:31.840 --> 1:04:33.440 Name stood out to me. That's kind of your you know, 1:04:33.480 --> 1:04:36.880 your ball control guy and amazing like great driving accuracy. Actually, 1:04:37.000 --> 1:04:39.800 I'm gonna call him not also not like a crazy, 1:04:39.920 --> 1:04:41.560 you know, insane pick, but I'm gonna go call him. 1:04:42.160 --> 1:04:45.240 I think he's he's uh, this is a redemption year 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:47.400 for him. I was happy I was on that island. 1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:50.080 Despite the way Joseph Lamania looked at me on this 1:04:50.200 --> 1:04:51.280 podcast when I said the. 1:04:51.360 --> 1:04:55.600 Name data boys, you know, he just they're not always right. 1:04:55.920 --> 1:04:59.919 They aren't always right. You know, games games, the data 1:05:00.280 --> 1:05:04.160 the data is all data all comes after they play yeah, 1:05:04.200 --> 1:05:07.960 you know, data's all data takes are always reactive takes. 1:05:08.560 --> 1:05:14.800 Well, you know what data can't measure great heart. I 1:05:14.880 --> 1:05:16.280 mean maybe it could if they're wearing like an Apple 1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:18.040 watch or whoop, but it can't measure heart. 1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:22.320 Soon, soon it'll be able to tell us everything that's 1:05:22.360 --> 1:05:24.240 going to happen, and we'll just stop. We'll just start 1:05:24.280 --> 1:05:25.320 simulating everything. 1:05:25.480 --> 1:05:25.680 True. 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:27.720 I hope Joseph listens, hope we get to this far 1:05:27.760 --> 1:05:28.400 in the podcast. 1:05:28.960 --> 1:05:32.720 I've already already poked him for that, you know, all right, 1:05:32.840 --> 1:05:35.560 thanks Martin. Do you have anything coming out that we 1:05:35.560 --> 1:05:36.400 should watch out for. 1:05:37.440 --> 1:05:39.360 No, we have some really exciting and like new and 1:05:39.400 --> 1:05:41.440 different stuff we're doing at the Players that I don't 1:05:41.440 --> 1:05:43.520 think people might see it right away. Someone's going to 1:05:43.560 --> 1:05:44.960 come out in Brian's press commence. 1:05:44.720 --> 1:05:45.160 I think, but. 1:05:47.280 --> 1:05:49.440 Some cool stuff. I'm definitely different than what I've been 1:05:49.480 --> 1:05:52.120 involved in my previous life as a writer and editor. 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:54.080 But I can't quite say right now, but I think 1:05:54.320 --> 1:05:56.320 definitely exciting from a content standpoint. 1:05:57.000 --> 1:06:00.200 Awesome. I'm looking forward to getting across the Moat for 1:06:00.800 --> 1:06:03.560 that press conference, seeing where the magic happened. 1:06:04.240 --> 1:06:06.080 You might not be you know, you might be onto 1:06:06.120 --> 1:06:07.600 something to talk about them blocking you in a room. 1:06:09.160 --> 1:06:21.880 All Right, thanks Sean. All Right, see y'all, let's talk 1:06:21.880 --> 1:06:25.680 about a new sponsor, Cobalt rangefinders. I just got my 1:06:25.800 --> 1:06:28.920 new Cobalt. It is awesome. I used it. I went 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:31.400 out and played to use it before we had to 1:06:31.440 --> 1:06:34.880 start using the doing these reads using this Cobalt, I 1:06:35.120 --> 1:06:38.760 was amazed at some of the features that they've added on. 1:06:39.120 --> 1:06:43.800 In particular, they have an optical zoom which you can 1:06:44.000 --> 1:06:47.280 get up to twelve X. This is a particular pain 1:06:47.360 --> 1:06:51.120 point if you hit a tree behind a hole like 1:06:51.200 --> 1:06:54.320 a flag. This is can like ruin your round if 1:06:54.360 --> 1:06:57.080 you're especially if you're playing for something and it's happened 1:06:57.080 --> 1:06:59.160 to me before and you mailed over the green, You're like, 1:06:59.240 --> 1:07:02.479 what the hell happened? The zoom is such a game 1:07:02.600 --> 1:07:05.280 changer for the rangefinder, so they go from six x 1:07:05.400 --> 1:07:08.200 to twelve x zoom, which allows you to be really 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:11.080 precise with what you're hitting, whether it's bunker, edge or 1:07:11.560 --> 1:07:14.440 whatever it is. It's designed to build for golfers who 1:07:14.560 --> 1:07:20.080 prioritize precision, consistency, and performance, and the QZ six delivers 1:07:20.240 --> 1:07:24.640 enhance visual clarity and confident distance measurements. Shot after shot. 1:07:25.120 --> 1:07:28.440 If you're interested in learning more about cobalt rangefinders, go 1:07:28.560 --> 1:07:33.960 to cobaltshgolf dot com. That's Cobalt dashgolf dot com and 1:07:34.120 --> 1:07:37.480 use the promo code fried Egg Pod fifteen All one 1:07:37.560 --> 1:07:42.040 word fried Egg Pod fifteen for fifteen percent off your order. 1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:46.280 All right, let's get over to Garrett's documentary podcast about 1:07:46.280 --> 1:07:48.080 the building of Tpcsawcrass. 1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:12.600 Sailing out of Gravesend, England on the trade route, Captain 1:08:12.640 --> 1:08:16.680 William Hilton one August morning in sixteen sixty three came 1:08:16.760 --> 1:08:18.719 upon an island peaceful and serene. 1:08:19.560 --> 1:08:22.360 What you're hearing is the telecast of the nineteen sixty 1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:25.800 nine Heritage Golf Classic. It was a new event held 1:08:25.840 --> 1:08:28.840 at a new golf course, Harbortown Golf Links had been 1:08:28.920 --> 1:08:32.280 built by a forty three year old architect named Pete Dye. 1:08:32.960 --> 1:08:36.120 Back then, Pete Dye wasn't well known in a mainstream way, 1:08:36.640 --> 1:08:39.360 but his collaborator had a more recognizable name. 1:08:40.439 --> 1:08:42.840 Hello, I'm Jack Nicholas. This is Pete Dye. 1:08:43.760 --> 1:08:47.040 The two men lean against the balustrade of an outdoor stairway, 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:49.679 both looking a little flushed in their full suits. 1:08:50.680 --> 1:08:53.160 Pete and I have worked together to design and build 1:08:53.920 --> 1:08:57.519 the Harbortown Golf Links here at Seapin's plantation. We're here 1:08:57.600 --> 1:09:00.120 on the eve of the first Heritage Golf Classic. He 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:03.720 played over the Thanksgiving weekend. Having a golf tournament on 1:09:03.800 --> 1:09:06.479 the first year of operation, it's a dream come true 1:09:06.520 --> 1:09:07.160 for both of us. 1:09:08.000 --> 1:09:09.439 And the golf course looks great. 1:09:09.560 --> 1:09:12.560 Nispeech, that's beautiful, Jack, Really, it's been a lot of 1:09:12.640 --> 1:09:15.839 fun here and well, yes, that's a great contrast. 1:09:15.920 --> 1:09:19.360 Today there were beauty grasses with a beheas centipede. 1:09:19.760 --> 1:09:22.760 Pine Strong brings you back to Pinehurst and some of the. 1:09:23.080 --> 1:09:25.639 Old British golf links looks great. 1:09:27.160 --> 1:09:29.160 It was quite a coup for Pete Dye to be 1:09:29.320 --> 1:09:32.200 there on TV, side by side with the greatest golfer 1:09:32.240 --> 1:09:34.680 in the world. If you were a golf architect in 1:09:34.800 --> 1:09:37.320 nineteen sixty nine, he didn't get an awful lot of 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:40.640 press unless your name was Robert Trent Jones. So the 1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:44.080 opening of Harbortown marked a turning point in Pete Dye's career. 1:09:44.520 --> 1:09:47.559 Here was a course to be discussed. It was quirky 1:09:47.720 --> 1:09:51.240 and challenging, and it proved popular among the pros. One 1:09:51.320 --> 1:09:54.160 of those pros was Dean Beeman, who played his first 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:56.000 Heritage in nineteen seventy one. 1:09:56.640 --> 1:10:02.439 My favorite golf course was Harbortown, and Harbortown was today 1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:05.559 is many players' favorite golf course. 1:10:05.760 --> 1:10:09.880 They really like it. Harbortown is a golf course. 1:10:09.720 --> 1:10:13.320 That has just as many right to left as left 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:18.680 to right holes. It has small and green, It demands accuracy. 1:10:19.280 --> 1:10:23.040 It doesn't favor a long hitter versus a shorter hitter. 1:10:23.439 --> 1:10:26.479 So I thought it had a great balance and it 1:10:26.600 --> 1:10:28.920 was a great test of golf and a fair test 1:10:29.000 --> 1:10:29.360 to golf. 1:10:29.880 --> 1:10:33.000 By nineteen seventy eight, Beeman was commissioner of the PGA 1:10:33.120 --> 1:10:36.320 Tour and he had just negotiated the purchase of a wild, 1:10:36.680 --> 1:10:41.240 soggy property near Jacksonville, Florida. There he intended to build 1:10:41.360 --> 1:10:45.000 a new venue for the Tournament Players Championship. He wanted 1:10:45.040 --> 1:10:47.519 the course to tax the abilities of the world's best 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:51.800 golfers while providing a better viewing experience for spectators. It 1:10:51.840 --> 1:10:55.160 would be a stadium golf course, and he knew the 1:10:55.240 --> 1:11:01.400 man to build it was Pete Dye. Today, on Frida 1:11:01.400 --> 1:11:04.560 Egg Stories, we are going back four decades to the 1:11:04.640 --> 1:11:08.040 building of this stadium course at TPC Sawgrass in the 1:11:08.120 --> 1:11:12.080 nineteen eighty two Players Championship. This story has been told 1:11:12.240 --> 1:11:15.519 and retold over and over, and since it's Player's Week 1:11:15.640 --> 1:11:19.000 right now, you'll no doubt be reminded by various journalists, 1:11:19.120 --> 1:11:22.280 TV hosts, and podcasters of the usual bits of lore. 1:11:22.760 --> 1:11:26.200 Dean Beeman purchasing the property for one dollar, Pete Dies 1:11:26.240 --> 1:11:28.360 sketching a routing on the back of a place mat, 1:11:28.760 --> 1:11:31.840 the creation of the island Green, the complaints of the pros, 1:11:32.240 --> 1:11:35.240 and Jerry Pate after his victory in eighty two hauling 1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:38.280 both Beman and Die into the pond next to the 1:11:38.360 --> 1:11:41.840 eighteenth Green. Don't get me wrong, we'll replay a few 1:11:41.880 --> 1:11:44.120 of those hits in this episode. We're not about that. 1:11:44.800 --> 1:11:47.679 But the real reason I'm curious about the TPC Sawgrass 1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:51.040 story has to do with the personalities involved in the 1:11:51.120 --> 1:11:56.559 contrasts between them. On the one hand, you had Pete Dye. 1:11:57.000 --> 1:12:00.080 Golf architecture was a passion for him, not just to 1:12:00.160 --> 1:12:02.519 business enterprise, and as we know in the way he 1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:06.800 designed courses, he was intensely hands on and independent. He 1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:09.840 was an artist. On the other hand, you had the 1:12:09.880 --> 1:12:13.679 PGA tour under the leadership of Dean Beaman, thirteen years 1:12:13.760 --> 1:12:17.600 younger than Pete. Die Beeman was energetic and assertive, a 1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:21.640 deal maker. TPC Sawgrass was his venture, and he had 1:12:21.720 --> 1:12:24.840 ideas of his own about what it should be. No 1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:28.160 less an authority than Alice Dye, Pete's wife and most 1:12:28.320 --> 1:12:31.680 trusted design consultant, had her own doubts about the partnership 1:12:31.720 --> 1:12:35.679 between Dean and Pete. Oh, Pete, you're crazy, she said, 1:12:36.200 --> 1:12:39.840 you can't build for Dean. He's particular, he's efficient, he's 1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:42.280 all the things you aren't. He'll have his hands in 1:12:42.360 --> 1:12:44.920 there trying to tell you what to do. Don't do it. 1:12:46.120 --> 1:12:50.280 But he did, and oddly enough it worked. In this 1:12:50.479 --> 1:12:53.439 episode of Frida Egg Stories, we'll try to figure out 1:12:53.479 --> 1:13:01.920 how today the Tour is the eight hundred pound gorilla 1:13:02.040 --> 1:13:05.160 of the golf world. Back in the nineteen seventies, it 1:13:05.280 --> 1:13:08.519 was more like a newborn computi. The Tournament Player's Division 1:13:08.560 --> 1:13:10.680 as it was then known, had just separated from the 1:13:10.720 --> 1:13:13.439 PGA of America, and it was a scrappy operation. 1:13:14.439 --> 1:13:17.479 Yeah, it was really a mom and pop shop back then. 1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:20.960 Adam Schupak is a golf journalist and the author of 1:13:21.080 --> 1:13:24.320 Golf's Driving Force, a biography of Dean Beaman. 1:13:25.320 --> 1:13:28.200 When the Tour moved its headquarters to Panaviter Beach, it 1:13:28.320 --> 1:13:31.080 was working out of a four bedroom home with Dean's 1:13:31.120 --> 1:13:34.439 office was the master bedroom. The garage had the copier 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:37.320 and postage meter, and you know for an intercom, they 1:13:37.400 --> 1:13:38.200 just yelled at each other. 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:38.519 It was. 1:13:38.840 --> 1:13:42.360 It was a really small staff and Beaman took over 1:13:42.439 --> 1:13:45.840 in nineteen seventy four and used to say that, you know, 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:48.400 the largest capital ast that they had was an IBM 1:13:48.520 --> 1:13:51.760 Selectric typewriter. They had about twenty walkie talkies and. 1:13:51.920 --> 1:13:52.439 They did it on. 1:13:52.800 --> 1:13:55.640 They had three Budweisers and the Canna beans. I mean, 1:13:56.200 --> 1:13:59.040 it was a time period where bowling was still attracting 1:13:59.160 --> 1:14:02.800 higher ratings, golf and tennis was the sports surging of popularity. 1:14:02.880 --> 1:14:04.680 So you know, he had a lot of work cut 1:14:04.720 --> 1:14:06.439 out for him when he took over his commission. 1:14:07.160 --> 1:14:10.120 It didn't take long for Beamon to start making aggressive moves. 1:14:10.600 --> 1:14:12.280 He was in his mid thirties and he had a 1:14:12.320 --> 1:14:14.680 background not only as an elite golfer who had won 1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:18.080 two US Amateurs, but also as an insurance broker. He 1:14:18.160 --> 1:14:21.600 knew his way around tax documents as well as boardroom negotiations. 1:14:21.920 --> 1:14:24.360 You know, he was an intense man. He's got these 1:14:24.439 --> 1:14:27.080 piercing blue eyes, and you know, his friends used to 1:14:27.120 --> 1:14:29.400 say that, you know, he could deliver a look that 1:14:29.479 --> 1:14:33.919 could exterminate headlice. And it was a job that required toughness, 1:14:34.560 --> 1:14:36.519 because you know, he had this quest to kind of 1:14:36.640 --> 1:14:39.840 roll over the status quo in this traditional game, make 1:14:39.920 --> 1:14:42.880 golf a bigger sport. And you know, he wanted to 1:14:42.960 --> 1:14:45.040 create a fan base that was much broader than just 1:14:45.160 --> 1:14:47.639 its own participants, and that meant doing things a little 1:14:47.680 --> 1:14:49.439 differently than they'd been done in the past. 1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:53.320 In his first year, Beaman converted the tour into a nonprofit, 1:14:53.600 --> 1:14:57.360 exempting it from paying income taxes and changing its financial fortunes. 1:14:59.120 --> 1:15:02.880 Beamon's others nature project was the new tournament Players Championship, 1:15:03.240 --> 1:15:06.439 later known as the Players Championship and now apparently as 1:15:06.640 --> 1:15:10.240 just the Players Anyway. From the beginning, Beeman had big 1:15:10.320 --> 1:15:13.559 plans for the event. The USGA had the US Open, 1:15:13.880 --> 1:15:16.840 the PGA of America had the PGA Championship, and the 1:15:17.000 --> 1:15:19.720 RNA had the Open. Why shouldn't the PGA Tour have 1:15:19.840 --> 1:15:23.200 its own major. Well, for one, it's not easy to 1:15:23.280 --> 1:15:27.560 manufacture prestige, but Beeman tried his best. After staging the 1:15:27.600 --> 1:15:31.240 first three tournament players Championships at three different courses, he 1:15:31.360 --> 1:15:33.800 decided to stick with one that it worked for the 1:15:33.880 --> 1:15:37.519 masters after all, So starting in nineteen seventy seven, the 1:15:37.600 --> 1:15:41.080 players absorbed the Greater Jacksonville Open and set up shop 1:15:41.280 --> 1:15:43.640 at Sawgrass Country Club, which was. 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:47.439 A very dynamic golf course that was played in March 1:15:47.520 --> 1:15:50.760 where the wind blew. It was as close to an 1:15:50.880 --> 1:15:53.720 ocean side course as you could get, and so it 1:15:53.880 --> 1:15:54.360 had all. 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:55.360 Those elements in it. 1:15:56.160 --> 1:15:59.400 But while Beeman liked Sawgrass as a course, he thought 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:01.920 it could be proved as a venue, there. 1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:06.200 Was going to have to be a substantial investment made 1:16:06.479 --> 1:16:09.720 in the golf course and the facilities to accommodate both 1:16:09.760 --> 1:16:12.120 the players and the gallery. 1:16:12.000 --> 1:16:13.120 And what we wanted to do. 1:16:14.000 --> 1:16:17.400 So Beeman attempted to buy Sawgrass Country Club, but for 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:21.040 a variety of reasons, the deal never happened. Instead, he 1:16:21.200 --> 1:16:24.040 set out to build a new course, a home course 1:16:24.120 --> 1:16:27.800 for the tour. Just across the road from Sawgrass Country 1:16:27.840 --> 1:16:31.880 Club was a huge tract of wilderness. The owners knew 1:16:31.920 --> 1:16:34.439 that being in business with the ascendant golf tour would 1:16:34.479 --> 1:16:36.920 raise the value of their land, so they sold four 1:16:37.000 --> 1:16:40.960 hundred and fifteen acres to Beaman for one dollar. From there, 1:16:41.200 --> 1:16:44.719 the commissioner pieced together financing from a non recourse loan, 1:16:45.040 --> 1:16:48.360 a few dozen expensive founding memberships, and a few thousand 1:16:48.640 --> 1:16:52.479 cheap annual memberships. It was a tidy sum acquired at 1:16:52.560 --> 1:16:53.240 minimal risk. 1:16:54.439 --> 1:16:56.800 As PG Tour commissiony, he's working for a board, he's 1:16:56.840 --> 1:16:59.280 working for the players, and they had a lot of 1:17:00.560 --> 1:17:03.000 and they pretty much said, you can't risk any of 1:17:03.040 --> 1:17:04.680 our assets. They didn't have a lot to day, but 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:06.519 they didn't want to put put anything on the line, 1:17:06.560 --> 1:17:08.360 and if he failed, it was his neck. And so 1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:10.120 he went out and figured a way to do it 1:17:10.360 --> 1:17:13.479 where they just couldn't say no. And it was you know, 1:17:13.640 --> 1:17:16.200 that is one of the most brilliant deals ever in 1:17:16.520 --> 1:17:17.360 the game of golf. 1:17:20.920 --> 1:17:24.120 After all that, though, Beeman found himself in possession of 1:17:24.160 --> 1:17:27.000 a piece of land that, to put it mildly, seemed 1:17:27.080 --> 1:17:30.120 ill suited to golf. Here's how Pete Dye described it 1:17:30.240 --> 1:17:33.720 in his autobiography Bury Me in a pop Bunker. When 1:17:33.760 --> 1:17:36.679 I first inspected the proposed site for the player's course, 1:17:37.080 --> 1:17:42.160 my only compatriots in the impenetrable swampy jungle were deer, alligators, 1:17:42.439 --> 1:17:46.200 wild boar, and deadly snakes. In order to cut a path, 1:17:46.360 --> 1:17:49.040 I followed deer tracks that led me to dry areas 1:17:49.120 --> 1:17:52.120 in the swamp before I nearly drowned in the depths 1:17:52.160 --> 1:17:53.680 of the marshland well. 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:58.720 The property was. It was dead flat. It had a 1:17:58.840 --> 1:18:00.800 lot of standing water on it. 1:18:01.120 --> 1:18:06.800 There's substantial rainfall here in Jacksonville following rainfall. Until to 1:18:06.920 --> 1:18:09.360 dried out. It was a pretty wet piece of property. 1:18:10.040 --> 1:18:14.400 It hadn't always been that way. The array of oak, pine, sweetgum, 1:18:14.479 --> 1:18:17.200 and magnolia trees on the site indicated that it had 1:18:17.240 --> 1:18:20.479 once been an upland, But when the Intracoastal Waterway was 1:18:20.520 --> 1:18:23.680 built nearby in the early nineteen hundreds, water began to 1:18:23.760 --> 1:18:26.920 collect on the site. By the nineteen seventies it was 1:18:26.960 --> 1:18:30.800 a Florida forest mashed up with a Florida swamp. But 1:18:30.960 --> 1:18:33.760 Beeman didn't mind that the property was flat and would 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:36.800 need to be almost wholly re engineered. To him, it 1:18:36.960 --> 1:18:39.559 was a blank slate where he could realize his vision 1:18:39.760 --> 1:18:41.160 for a stadium golf course. 1:18:42.160 --> 1:18:45.000 No golf course up to that point had been bought, 1:18:45.280 --> 1:18:50.640 had been built. That more interest was concentrated on the 1:18:50.760 --> 1:18:54.400 gallery than the players. Most golf courses are built for players. 1:18:55.160 --> 1:18:57.800 We needed to build one for the players, but we 1:18:57.960 --> 1:19:01.320 also had to we want eyewant to build a golf 1:19:01.400 --> 1:19:04.960 course that would be the first what I called a 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:06.200 stadium golf course. 1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:08.880 Well, I wanted. I wanted two things. 1:19:08.920 --> 1:19:12.240 There were two elements that I thought were extremely important 1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:16.160 in making a stadium course as successful as it could be. 1:19:16.840 --> 1:19:21.280 One is that you did all you could to build 1:19:21.720 --> 1:19:25.679 the spectator areas in the highest places on the course 1:19:25.800 --> 1:19:29.160 and the golf courses in the playing services on the 1:19:29.240 --> 1:19:33.400 lowest point of the golf court, so that the spectators 1:19:33.479 --> 1:19:37.120 were actually walking with you, and they would be above 1:19:37.200 --> 1:19:40.760 the players, and so more people could see. And that's 1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:44.439 the concept of a stadium. The second part of the 1:19:44.520 --> 1:19:48.599 concept that I thought was very important was the routing 1:19:48.680 --> 1:19:51.680 of the golf course should be in a way that 1:19:51.920 --> 1:19:57.200 produced the most what I call areas of activity. Instead 1:19:57.240 --> 1:20:01.120 of spreading the golf course out, bringing the holes out, 1:20:01.760 --> 1:20:04.720 they should wind back and forth in a way that 1:20:04.960 --> 1:20:10.559 created us hubs of activities where a spectator could maybe 1:20:10.680 --> 1:20:14.400 walk two or three hundred yards and see four or 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:18.600 five different shots close to a couple of tees, a 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:22.720 couple of greens and maybe a fairway and not have 1:20:22.920 --> 1:20:26.360 to walk five miles to watch a lot of golf, 1:20:27.200 --> 1:20:29.920 Because there are some spectators that want to follow their 1:20:30.000 --> 1:20:32.519 favorite player and others that just want to watch golf. 1:20:33.320 --> 1:20:36.360 It's striking how these ideas, although novel at the time, 1:20:36.720 --> 1:20:39.479 call to mind the features of certain time tested tournament 1:20:39.520 --> 1:20:43.120 golf courses. As Pete Didye pointed out in his autobiography, 1:20:43.439 --> 1:20:46.320 the Links courses of Great Britain and Ireland have dunes 1:20:46.360 --> 1:20:49.760 that form natural spectator mounds along the fairways and around 1:20:49.800 --> 1:20:53.439 the greens, and Beeman's notion of hubs of activity reminded 1:20:53.520 --> 1:20:57.839 me of how Augusta National returns to certain landforms, creating 1:20:57.960 --> 1:21:01.479 gathering spots where spectators can see multiple greens and teas 1:21:01.640 --> 1:21:06.240 at once. Perhaps in part because he appreciated these historical references, 1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:09.360 Pete Dye took beeman stadium concept and ran with it. 1:21:10.080 --> 1:21:13.559 Over dinner at the Homestead Restaurant in Jacksonville, Die sketched 1:21:13.600 --> 1:21:16.160 a back nine routing on that now famous place Mat 1:21:16.640 --> 1:21:20.160 and Beeman knew he had the right architect. Granted, a 1:21:20.240 --> 1:21:22.720 place Matt is a lot easier to work with than 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:24.840 a four hundred and fifteen acre alligator pick. 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:34.559 We killed rattlesnakes and moccasins all the time, almost every day, 1:21:35.280 --> 1:21:39.640 also alligators and spatters and all kinds of stuff on 1:21:40.000 --> 1:21:43.320 at on the side, and you wore snake boots or 1:21:43.439 --> 1:21:44.639 you didn't really go out there. 1:21:45.240 --> 1:21:48.759 Vernon Kelly was the project manager at TPC Sawgrass. 1:21:49.360 --> 1:21:53.400 There was something out there we called blue gumbo clay. 1:21:53.840 --> 1:21:57.400 What it was was almost a plastic kind of play 1:21:57.479 --> 1:22:01.799 It was like quicksand and when you were digging sand 1:22:02.520 --> 1:22:06.240 out of the pits, because wherever you found sand, we 1:22:06.400 --> 1:22:08.640 excavated it for the golf holds, and that's how we 1:22:08.720 --> 1:22:12.240 created seventeen. Of course, almost anyway you see a lake 1:22:12.320 --> 1:22:14.880 out there, it's because there was sand in that area 1:22:14.880 --> 1:22:18.080 and we didn't have the money to buy sand. And 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:21.160 once you excavated the sand, sometimes you would hit this 1:22:22.040 --> 1:22:25.519 gushy kind of play material and it didn't seem to 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:28.800 be any bottom to it, and out I think it 1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.880 was number seven. One night we went a back over 1:22:31.920 --> 1:22:36.040 and we were digging building the green and he got 1:22:36.120 --> 1:22:40.479 into that stuff, and I mean literally, without a couple 1:22:40.560 --> 1:22:44.679 of hours, it completely covered the tracks of the back though, 1:22:44.760 --> 1:22:47.519 and was up to the cab, which is about five feet. 1:22:48.479 --> 1:22:50.880 We were able to pull it out with a dozer, 1:22:51.000 --> 1:22:54.880 but it just showed how treacherous the sight was. 1:22:55.640 --> 1:22:58.479 Early on, it could seem like the land itself was 1:22:58.600 --> 1:22:59.840 rejecting the golf course. 1:23:00.880 --> 1:23:03.479 The first thing we had to do was to find 1:23:03.520 --> 1:23:06.960 the property, so we had the boundary surveyed, and the 1:23:07.040 --> 1:23:10.880 surveyors actually went out there and cut the survey line 1:23:11.120 --> 1:23:14.720 with machetes, and then you know, went from point to 1:23:14.800 --> 1:23:19.120 point and marked the points with the survey steaks and 1:23:19.560 --> 1:23:23.479 survey tape. Well, the vegetation grew so fast out there, 1:23:24.400 --> 1:23:27.719 literally within a couple of days, you could barely find 1:23:27.760 --> 1:23:31.639 the cut lines, which were the pass from stake straight 1:23:32.240 --> 1:23:34.840 and you couldn't find the steaks at all. 1:23:35.920 --> 1:23:37.840 And then there was the wildlife. 1:23:40.080 --> 1:23:42.679 So one day we were walking along it was hot 1:23:42.760 --> 1:23:45.360 as could be, and the bugs were about to carry 1:23:45.479 --> 1:23:48.200 off with skews and the rest. And I was talking 1:23:48.280 --> 1:23:49.240 to David, that. 1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:53.000 Would be David post Away, Pete Dye's construction superintendent. 1:23:53.640 --> 1:23:56.080 He said, do you think there are any alligators out here? 1:23:56.160 --> 1:23:58.400 I said, oh, yeah, they're all over the place because 1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:01.400 they can travel in this water. It's about knee high, 1:24:01.800 --> 1:24:03.880 and they can move from place to place, and he said, 1:24:04.120 --> 1:24:05.200 those step on one. 1:24:07.120 --> 1:24:07.360 It's all. 1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:10.280 We won't do that, but you can find them because 1:24:10.640 --> 1:24:13.040 there'll be a n alligator pit. And what they do 1:24:13.280 --> 1:24:16.560 is they'll be in an area of saw grass and 1:24:16.720 --> 1:24:22.719 they'll root around and make an alligator pit that's probably 1:24:23.120 --> 1:24:25.800 twenty feet square around where if they ripped up the 1:24:25.880 --> 1:24:30.040 vegetation and kind of dug them but a little bit deeper, 1:24:30.800 --> 1:24:33.439 and that's where they live, and that's where they sleep 1:24:33.520 --> 1:24:36.720 in the water. And all they're scavengers. They don't eat 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:40.200 live meat. They kill things and they put it in 1:24:40.720 --> 1:24:44.160 that pit to rot, and when it's real gamey, then 1:24:44.479 --> 1:24:47.000 they'll eat it. So when you come to one of 1:24:47.040 --> 1:24:49.600 those pits, you can tell what it is because it 1:24:49.880 --> 1:24:52.559 stinks to high heaven. And he said, boy, I hate 1:24:52.560 --> 1:24:54.240 to be in something like that, and I said, yeah, 1:24:54.320 --> 1:24:57.519 me too. So in the meantime, we're pushing through. We're 1:24:57.560 --> 1:25:00.240 pushing through the saw grass and it's about five that 1:25:01.320 --> 1:25:04.519 and so thick. I mean, you can't. It just wears 1:25:04.560 --> 1:25:07.800 you out to push against it, sort of leaning leaning 1:25:07.920 --> 1:25:12.240 into it. I was in front and Dave was following me, 1:25:12.560 --> 1:25:14.840 and all of a sudden I was leaning All of 1:25:14.840 --> 1:25:16.439 a sudden it just parted and I fell in this 1:25:16.560 --> 1:25:19.080 hole and I knew immediately what it was because it's 1:25:19.240 --> 1:25:23.520 stunk to high have and I'd fallen into an alligator. 1:25:23.720 --> 1:25:23.920 Kid. 1:25:24.680 --> 1:25:28.559 Fortunately the alligator went home, but you know, said, I'm 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:33.120 laying of this thing, and my full concentration is on 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:37.000 keeping my balf of water. All of a sudden, David 1:25:37.120 --> 1:25:39.720 comes and pops right through the grass and falls right 1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:43.439 on top of me. He looks around. He says, oh 1:25:43.520 --> 1:25:45.200 my god, He says, the stinks that I have, And 1:25:45.280 --> 1:25:47.679 what is this? I said, it's what we were talking about. 1:25:47.680 --> 1:25:53.120 It's an alligator. Bit He's gone. He just disappeared. He 1:25:53.280 --> 1:25:54.960 was he took off so fast. 1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:56.439 How did you get out? 1:25:56.720 --> 1:25:56.840 Oh? 1:25:56.880 --> 1:25:57.360 I got out. 1:25:57.840 --> 1:25:58.040 I was. 1:25:58.240 --> 1:25:58.880 I was right behy. 1:26:00.200 --> 1:26:02.000 But nothing happened to us. 1:26:05.160 --> 1:26:07.840 Kelly, who hadn't worked on a pet dye project before, 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:10.639 quickly got a taste of Die's creative process. 1:26:11.720 --> 1:26:13.760 When we first started working with him, we had to 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:16.519 get upset of plans for the bank in order to 1:26:16.640 --> 1:26:19.960 just stit the loan. It was the hardest thing to 1:26:20.040 --> 1:26:23.960 get a set of plants. Pete resisted and just didn't 1:26:23.960 --> 1:26:26.360 want to give us a set of plants, and finally 1:26:27.120 --> 1:26:29.120 we were able to secure a set of plans from him. 1:26:29.160 --> 1:26:31.720 We gave them to the bank and everything's ready to go. 1:26:32.320 --> 1:26:36.200 So we're on the site. The first day we were 1:26:36.240 --> 1:26:39.000 walking out to the first t I said, oh, wait, man, 1:26:39.040 --> 1:26:41.200 I forgot something. And I went running back to the 1:26:41.280 --> 1:26:45.240 truck and got the plans, and son come running, come 1:26:45.360 --> 1:26:48.320 running back, and Pete says to me, what's that And 1:26:48.479 --> 1:26:50.920 I said, oh, these are the plants. And he said, 1:26:51.000 --> 1:26:53.120 put up back of the truck, and I don't want 1:26:53.120 --> 1:26:58.240 to see them again. That was the last time we 1:26:58.320 --> 1:27:00.280 had the plants on the job, and. 1:27:00.360 --> 1:27:02.960 That, it seems to me, is exactly where Pete die 1:27:03.120 --> 1:27:05.960 and the tour could have found themselves at loggerheads, the 1:27:06.040 --> 1:27:10.320 craftsmen versus the corporation, the improviser versus the plan followers. 1:27:10.840 --> 1:27:13.680 But as it turned out, Dean Beeman himself had a 1:27:13.720 --> 1:27:15.360 healthy regard for Dye's methods. 1:27:16.400 --> 1:27:19.840 That's Pete. Pete wants to be hands on, boots on 1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:22.400 the ground. I want to see it. I don't want 1:27:22.439 --> 1:27:23.880 to see it on a piece of paper. I want 1:27:23.920 --> 1:27:26.000 to see it with my own eye and my boots 1:27:26.080 --> 1:27:26.599 on the ground. 1:27:26.720 --> 1:27:30.040 Get wet and from Vernon Kelly's point of view. While 1:27:30.040 --> 1:27:32.839 there was a contrast in styles between Die and Beman, 1:27:33.240 --> 1:27:35.840 there was also a crucial element that kept the peace. 1:27:36.840 --> 1:27:39.640 There was a tremendous amount of respect between Dean and 1:27:39.800 --> 1:27:43.439 deep In both ways and Alice both ways. 1:27:44.200 --> 1:27:47.280 Years later, Alice I admitted that her initial fears about 1:27:47.320 --> 1:27:51.120 the partnership had been unfounded. Dean was wonderful, she said. 1:27:51.600 --> 1:27:54.800 He let Pete do his thing, and both of them 1:27:55.000 --> 1:27:57.800 let Alice do her thing. She too was on site, 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:00.880 and she too had a knack for boots on the improvisation. 1:28:01.800 --> 1:28:04.679 According to plans, the par three seventeenth would have water 1:28:04.920 --> 1:28:07.840 just on the right but around the seventeenth green, as 1:28:07.880 --> 1:28:09.800 it happened, was some of the best sand on a 1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:13.479 generally mucky property. So the crew kept digging that sand 1:28:13.560 --> 1:28:16.400 out and using it as foundation for turf elsewhere on 1:28:16.479 --> 1:28:19.800 the course. Eventually there was an enormous pit where the 1:28:19.840 --> 1:28:22.920 seventeenth hole was supposed to be. Here's how Pete Dye 1:28:23.000 --> 1:28:24.080 recounted what happened. 1:28:24.120 --> 1:28:24.360 Next. 1:28:25.040 --> 1:28:27.800 I called Alice over to discuss with her where we 1:28:27.880 --> 1:28:30.439 could find a new place for the green. She said, 1:28:30.840 --> 1:28:33.280 put the green back where it was and fill the 1:28:33.360 --> 1:28:38.240 hole with water. Simple enough. This sort of husband wife 1:28:38.320 --> 1:28:42.000 collaboration was common on dye projects. One summer when he 1:28:42.120 --> 1:28:44.760 was in college, Tom Doak worked on the crew at 1:28:44.840 --> 1:28:47.120 Die's Long Cove Club on Hilton Head Island. 1:28:48.120 --> 1:28:50.920 They were renting a house three miles away and Sea 1:28:50.960 --> 1:28:54.800 Pine's plantation, and p would be there six or seven 1:28:54.880 --> 1:28:56.600 days a week at six thirty in the morning with 1:28:56.680 --> 1:29:00.439 the crew, and Alice would come out two or three 1:29:00.479 --> 1:29:02.920 times a week, you know, at lunch time or in 1:29:02.960 --> 1:29:07.320 the afternoon, and she'd just come check on progress and see, 1:29:07.439 --> 1:29:09.600 you know, see what what had been done since the 1:29:09.680 --> 1:29:12.400 last time she was out there, which you know, even 1:29:12.439 --> 1:29:15.479 that would be more visits than most architects would make 1:29:15.520 --> 1:29:21.840 to their own construction sites. And it was actually a 1:29:21.920 --> 1:29:24.240 guy on our crew that would have been a college 1:29:24.320 --> 1:29:27.760 roommate of PD's, you know, Pete was shaping on the 1:29:27.840 --> 1:29:30.840 golf course and Steve, his roommate, was out there working 1:29:30.880 --> 1:29:32.639 on the labor crew. And I get to know Steve 1:29:32.680 --> 1:29:35.760 a little bit, and at one point Steve just sort 1:29:35.800 --> 1:29:38.880 of said, really casually, well, you know, nothing's really done 1:29:38.920 --> 1:29:43.400 out here until miss Sally says it's okay. And I 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:46.240 thought that was funny at the time, but but I 1:29:46.360 --> 1:29:49.040 really did get the impression by the time I was 1:29:49.160 --> 1:29:52.200 done working for Pete and Alice that Alice had a 1:29:52.360 --> 1:29:55.920 lot to say about you know, maybe not the final say, 1:29:56.000 --> 1:29:58.760 but she was certainly going to tell Pe if she 1:29:58.960 --> 1:30:01.760 didn't think, you know, he thought golf course is too 1:30:01.840 --> 1:30:04.920 hard or too easy, or if that feature didn't look right, 1:30:05.360 --> 1:30:08.960 and you know, hers was the most important opinion to Pete. 1:30:12.200 --> 1:30:14.840 So while Pte Die was firm in his own convictions, 1:30:15.200 --> 1:30:17.719 he was also eager to gather input from others. 1:30:18.360 --> 1:30:20.600 I can stay as an architect. The hardest one of 1:30:20.640 --> 1:30:22.559 the hardest things to do when you're in the middle 1:30:22.600 --> 1:30:27.599 of a construction project is half perspective on you've sort 1:30:27.640 --> 1:30:30.960 of you've gotten away from playing golf on graft and 1:30:31.439 --> 1:30:34.479 you get to lose perspective of this is too hard, 1:30:34.560 --> 1:30:36.880 this is too easy, And it really helps to have 1:30:37.160 --> 1:30:41.519 somebody out there you trust just this. You know, it's okay, 1:30:41.760 --> 1:30:44.600 it's fine, or it's a wait, are you sure you 1:30:44.680 --> 1:30:47.280 want to be doing that? You know, And most architects 1:30:47.320 --> 1:30:47.880 don't have that. 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:55.120 The Stadium course opened in nineteen eighty, but as the 1:30:55.200 --> 1:30:58.400 eighty two Players Championship approached, the first players to be 1:30:58.520 --> 1:31:02.000 held at TPC Sawgrass the pressure on both Pete Dye 1:31:02.160 --> 1:31:04.000 and Dean Beaman ratcheted up. 1:31:04.640 --> 1:31:06.760 It was definitely a move forward for the PGA Tour 1:31:06.880 --> 1:31:09.479 because they were opening their own golf course. 1:31:10.120 --> 1:31:13.320 Sean Martin is a senior editor for PGA Tour dot com, 1:31:13.880 --> 1:31:16.920 and in twenty seventeen he wrote a feature called Leap 1:31:16.960 --> 1:31:20.280 of Faith behind the Stadium Course's wild debut at the 1:31:20.360 --> 1:31:23.720 nineteen eighty two Players Championship. It's really great and a 1:31:23.800 --> 1:31:25.519 major inspiration for this episode. 1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:29.240 So now they were getting into the golf course business, 1:31:29.280 --> 1:31:31.600 and there was debate among the players whether or not 1:31:31.680 --> 1:31:34.479 the PGA Tour should be getting into the golf course business, 1:31:34.479 --> 1:31:37.000 whether or not that was a wise business decision. You know, 1:31:37.080 --> 1:31:39.519 you look at Adam Schupack's book about Dean Beaman, and 1:31:39.960 --> 1:31:42.840 the early tour was run out of basically, I believe 1:31:42.920 --> 1:31:45.479 it was a town homer, a condo at the Sawgrass 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:48.519 Country Club. So it was a very modest organization. So 1:31:48.640 --> 1:31:50.800 to now all of a sudden get into the golf 1:31:50.840 --> 1:31:53.240 course business was a risky venture. 1:31:53.880 --> 1:31:56.320 And the heat on Beeman and Die got turned up 1:31:56.360 --> 1:31:58.400 when the pros started to visit the new course. 1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:02.679 So Sagress Club, which hosted the players. Was literally across 1:32:02.840 --> 1:32:06.200 the street, so when guys were in town for the players, 1:32:06.240 --> 1:32:09.240 they could go over and see TPC. It was carved 1:32:09.280 --> 1:32:11.960 out of a swamp. It was much more severe than 1:32:12.040 --> 1:32:14.280 what you see today. I think some of that is 1:32:14.680 --> 1:32:17.840 just when you build slopes and you shape them, they 1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:20.400 never look quite as severe as when they get grass 1:32:20.560 --> 1:32:22.400 on them, and so just I think, of course, is 1:32:22.400 --> 1:32:24.040 always going to be severe when it's new. And then 1:32:24.080 --> 1:32:27.439 also you know, combine some of that with just the 1:32:27.600 --> 1:32:32.720 wild surrounds off the fairway. If you strayed from the 1:32:32.840 --> 1:32:35.639 corridors and hit it into that stuff, I mean you're 1:32:35.640 --> 1:32:38.560 looking at lost balls. You're having trouble hacking out. It 1:32:38.760 --> 1:32:41.719 was very raw and very very penal. 1:32:42.360 --> 1:32:45.040 The players began to make their opinions known, and not 1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:49.559 long after the grand opening, Dean Beaman oversaw some significant changes. 1:32:50.320 --> 1:32:54.000 It was difficult for me to envision what the final 1:32:54.200 --> 1:32:58.480 product would be based on looking at dirt when the grass. 1:32:58.360 --> 1:33:01.240 Was on it. It was far different than I had imagined. 1:33:01.760 --> 1:33:05.679 And clearly as soon as it opened, even before tour 1:33:05.760 --> 1:33:09.719 players came in and wanted to play it, I determined 1:33:09.760 --> 1:33:14.200 it was much too severe. The greens themselves were much 1:33:14.280 --> 1:33:17.880 too severe. So during the course of that year, before 1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:21.240 the first tournament, a lot of work was done to 1:33:21.439 --> 1:33:24.599 take some of the severity out of the greens. 1:33:27.680 --> 1:33:30.840 But when the eighty two Players Championship arrived, the course 1:33:30.960 --> 1:33:34.760 was still very rugged and very difficult. Tom Doak headed 1:33:34.840 --> 1:33:37.799 down from Cornell during his spring break to watch the tournament. 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:41.960 When Doak remembers that era of TPC sagrass, the image 1:33:42.000 --> 1:33:44.960 of a relatively bare bones golf course comes to his mind. 1:33:45.439 --> 1:33:47.200 But you know, one of the things about the TPC 1:33:47.360 --> 1:33:49.759 that most people don't realize is, you know, in nineteen 1:33:49.800 --> 1:33:53.920 seventy ninety eighty was terrible recession time in America, and 1:33:54.600 --> 1:33:57.479 the TPC was really built to be a low meetance 1:33:57.560 --> 1:34:01.240 golf course in a fairly low budge golf course to build. 1:34:01.960 --> 1:34:04.000 And of course once it was opened for three or 1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:07.439 four years, they all of a sudden it was like, well, 1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:09.320 this is the headquarters of the tour. We've got to 1:34:09.360 --> 1:34:10.880 spruce it up and we've got to make it look 1:34:10.960 --> 1:34:14.840 pretty imperfect. But that was not Pete's idea going into it. 1:34:15.240 --> 1:34:17.720 One of the quotes I remember him saying it that 1:34:17.800 --> 1:34:21.200 the original tournament in nineteen eighty two was everything here 1:34:21.360 --> 1:34:24.360 is the dead opposite of Augusta on purpose. 1:34:25.640 --> 1:34:27.880 When Dope got to the tournament, he went out and 1:34:27.960 --> 1:34:29.559 found Pete Dye on the course. 1:34:30.280 --> 1:34:34.360 I think it was on like the eleventh or twelfth hole. Basically, 1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:36.200 he was just going around to one hole at a 1:34:36.280 --> 1:34:39.759 time and watching players come through and you know, watching 1:34:39.840 --> 1:34:42.639 shots and seeing how they reacted. He wanted to see 1:34:42.680 --> 1:34:44.519 how they played him. He didn't want to hear how 1:34:44.680 --> 1:34:46.880 what they said. He didn't care so much what they 1:34:46.960 --> 1:34:48.760 said about it. You know, he just wanted to see 1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:51.080 if the shots work the way he intended them to. 1:34:51.280 --> 1:34:53.320 And you know, so we just go to one hole 1:34:53.360 --> 1:34:55.599 at a time and watched three or four groups play through, 1:34:55.680 --> 1:34:59.040 and Pete did see somebody hid a good shot and go, oh, 1:34:59.080 --> 1:35:01.320 that whole works. We can go to the next call now. 1:35:03.439 --> 1:35:06.560 But the pros were coming to their own conclusions, you know. 1:35:06.720 --> 1:35:08.559 Going in, people knew, I think that it was going 1:35:08.600 --> 1:35:11.000 to be a high tension week. This was a players 1:35:11.040 --> 1:35:13.360 were facing something that was new, something that was very penal. 1:35:14.040 --> 1:35:16.800 Players had an opportunity to voice their opinions and voice 1:35:16.840 --> 1:35:19.960 them strongly and loudly, and the press obviously was very 1:35:20.000 --> 1:35:22.080 willing to write them and so you had some great 1:35:22.160 --> 1:35:24.559 quotes that you know, I think players had probably spent 1:35:24.640 --> 1:35:27.759 some time thinking about. And so you had Ben Crenshaw, 1:35:27.760 --> 1:35:29.960 of all people, referring to it as Star Wars golf 1:35:30.040 --> 1:35:33.519 designed by Darth Vader. Jack Nicholas after missing the cuts 1:35:33.560 --> 1:35:36.040 that I've never been very good at stopping a five 1:35:36.080 --> 1:35:37.160 iron on the hood of a car. 1:35:37.760 --> 1:35:40.160 At least one player, however, was in his element. 1:35:40.640 --> 1:35:41.160 As far as a. 1:35:41.160 --> 1:35:43.479 Pete Die golf course, I was fortunate enough to play 1:35:43.840 --> 1:35:46.240 in nineteen seventy four, I played the Teeth of the 1:35:46.320 --> 1:35:47.679 Dog at Casa de Campo. 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:51.040 Jerry Pate was a twenty eight year old US amateur 1:35:51.240 --> 1:35:54.960 and US Open champion. He had a silky, powerful swing 1:35:55.240 --> 1:35:57.680 and a fearless attitude, and he felt that he had 1:35:57.720 --> 1:35:59.479 a bead on Pete Die designs. 1:36:00.280 --> 1:36:02.840 So I kind of understood Pete strategies. I had to 1:36:03.200 --> 1:36:06.320 feel for how he liked to strategize holes. And there 1:36:06.360 --> 1:36:08.280 were just certain places you couldn't hit the ball. 1:36:08.360 --> 1:36:10.599 You just if you'd hit it there, you were in trouble. 1:36:11.280 --> 1:36:14.280 And when I saw the Stadium course for the first time, 1:36:14.800 --> 1:36:17.360 a lot of people complained about it because the greens 1:36:17.400 --> 1:36:19.720 were sort of perched up off of the grade, so 1:36:20.880 --> 1:36:24.160 you had a lot of areas that had I would 1:36:24.200 --> 1:36:26.840 call them false fronts in the front, and the green 1:36:27.000 --> 1:36:29.200 ran off on the left side and the right side, 1:36:29.280 --> 1:36:32.800 and there were very very small pinnable areas that were 1:36:32.840 --> 1:36:35.000 little target areas, and if you didn't hit it there, 1:36:35.080 --> 1:36:38.559 the ball would gather some fifteen to thirty forty feet 1:36:38.560 --> 1:36:41.280 away from there into a low depression either on the 1:36:41.360 --> 1:36:42.400 green or off the green. 1:36:43.040 --> 1:36:44.520 So you had to be extremely. 1:36:44.200 --> 1:36:45.880 Accurate with your iron. You had to be a good 1:36:45.960 --> 1:36:47.960 driver of the ball, which I was, and you had 1:36:48.000 --> 1:36:49.880 to be a really good iron player, which I was. 1:36:50.000 --> 1:36:53.240 So his designs sort of played right into my hand. 1:36:53.880 --> 1:36:57.200 Still, like everyone else, Jerry Pate was struck by the 1:36:57.320 --> 1:36:59.439 rawness and difficulty of the new TPC. 1:37:00.439 --> 1:37:02.519 And you know, the golf course was wild and willy then. 1:37:02.600 --> 1:37:05.800 It wasn't naturally managed and manacured light. I mean, it 1:37:05.920 --> 1:37:09.000 wasn't as manicure today. It was natural with pal meadows 1:37:09.080 --> 1:37:13.599 and just you know, basically bobcats and rattlesnakes twenty foot 1:37:13.640 --> 1:37:17.600 off the fairway and Armadilla's and you name it. So 1:37:17.720 --> 1:37:20.280 that day there was nothing on earth, and I mean 1:37:20.360 --> 1:37:23.000 that not with it, not with exaggeration. There was no 1:37:23.439 --> 1:37:27.439 other course on the earth more difficult and diabolical than 1:37:27.479 --> 1:37:28.280 that golf course. 1:37:28.840 --> 1:37:32.040 But unlike almost everyone else, Pete wasn't much bothered by 1:37:32.080 --> 1:37:35.320 the stadium course's severity. This was at least in part 1:37:35.479 --> 1:37:37.519 because he just wasn't the worrying type. 1:37:38.120 --> 1:37:42.439 Yeah, so he was this gregarious bass riker, just fun 1:37:42.520 --> 1:37:45.839 loving flagging shots and I guess maybe kind of cavalier 1:37:45.880 --> 1:37:48.519 in that way, aiming at flags and playing I think 1:37:48.600 --> 1:37:50.720 kind of care free, because when you're that good of 1:37:50.760 --> 1:37:53.120 a bass riker, you can kind of do that because 1:37:53.439 --> 1:37:54.680 the ball's going to go where you aim. 1:37:55.160 --> 1:37:57.840 Peate also had the advantage of having played at the 1:37:57.920 --> 1:38:01.719 grand opening of TPC Sawgrass nineteen eighty and being paired 1:38:01.760 --> 1:38:04.960 with Dean Beaman himself. Beaman had shown him where he 1:38:05.040 --> 1:38:07.360 could be aggressive off the tee and taught him not 1:38:07.520 --> 1:38:09.559 to be intimidated by Die's visuals. 1:38:10.240 --> 1:38:12.800 Look, the fairways are much wider than they appear. They're 1:38:13.160 --> 1:38:17.360 classic Pete Die deception. You know, who build up bunkers 1:38:17.920 --> 1:38:19.960 or slopes that will make the fairway look smaller than 1:38:20.000 --> 1:38:22.679 they are. But the problem is, is really the fairways 1:38:22.880 --> 1:38:24.639 or wider than you think? And if you lay back 1:38:24.720 --> 1:38:27.080 off the tee, the second shot you're going to face 1:38:27.160 --> 1:38:29.760 into the greens is harder than the shot that you 1:38:29.880 --> 1:38:32.559 just avoided off the tee. So by playing safe off 1:38:32.600 --> 1:38:35.160 the tee, you're not really avoiding as much trouble as 1:38:35.200 --> 1:38:37.240 you think you are, and you're just bringing that much 1:38:37.280 --> 1:38:40.000 more into play around the greens. And so it is 1:38:40.200 --> 1:38:43.760 very visually intimidating, but you're also going to be best 1:38:43.800 --> 1:38:45.840 suited if you take the challenge on. 1:38:46.760 --> 1:38:49.840 So Pete was even more confident than usual going into 1:38:49.880 --> 1:38:52.760 the eighty two players. Not only did he like Pete 1:38:52.800 --> 1:38:55.280 die courses and do well at them, not only did 1:38:55.360 --> 1:38:58.200 he have the right skill set and disposition. Not only 1:38:58.280 --> 1:39:01.479 did he have intel on tpc's sawgrass, but he also 1:39:01.600 --> 1:39:05.000 had deep family connections to Jacksonville. His father had been 1:39:05.040 --> 1:39:07.320 born and raised there, and his mother had moved there 1:39:07.360 --> 1:39:10.439 in high school. Added all up, and Jerry Pate felt 1:39:10.479 --> 1:39:12.080 that he had destiny on his side. 1:39:12.520 --> 1:39:14.320 I just knew I was going to win it. It 1:39:14.520 --> 1:39:17.080 wasn't even a thought in my head, you know, I 1:39:17.160 --> 1:39:17.960 knew it all along. 1:39:19.080 --> 1:39:21.439 Well, he didn't exactly jump out to the lead. He 1:39:21.600 --> 1:39:26.280 hung around shooting seventy seventy three seventy. After fifty four holes, 1:39:26.439 --> 1:39:29.160 he was tied for sixth, three shots behind his brother 1:39:29.240 --> 1:39:33.400 in law Bruce Letsky and co leader Brad Bryant. Meanwhile, 1:39:33.600 --> 1:39:36.639 Pate was very aware of the rumblings among veteran players 1:39:36.680 --> 1:39:38.759 about the course and the tour's new direction. 1:39:39.240 --> 1:39:41.720 And there was talk in the locker room by the 1:39:41.840 --> 1:39:44.960 senior Hall of famers just before they were into Hall 1:39:45.000 --> 1:39:46.639 of Fame. And I won't mention names. 1:39:46.680 --> 1:39:47.920 Some of them are dead now. 1:39:48.120 --> 1:39:51.840 Somerseille lives in their eighties, and the talk was they 1:39:51.880 --> 1:39:53.680 were going to get, you know, have a coup and 1:39:53.840 --> 1:39:56.800 fired Dean because we had no business owning a golf course. 1:39:56.880 --> 1:40:00.040 And it was crazy, and it was competing against some 1:40:00.200 --> 1:40:03.519 of these famous golfers design careers. They had their own 1:40:03.600 --> 1:40:06.240 design careers going. So they're thinking, well, wait a minute, 1:40:06.600 --> 1:40:09.640 PGA Tours hiring some outside guy named Pete Died to 1:40:09.720 --> 1:40:12.000 design their golf course. Why didn't they hire a player. 1:40:12.960 --> 1:40:17.719 It was victrial, It was anger. The players were mad, angry, 1:40:18.800 --> 1:40:19.679 I mean, you could use. 1:40:19.640 --> 1:40:20.360 All those words. 1:40:20.439 --> 1:40:23.280 It was a big deal politically for Dean and Pete Die, 1:40:23.360 --> 1:40:26.160 I can tell you. And there were some really top 1:40:26.280 --> 1:40:29.120 players in that As I said, Hall of Fame golfers 1:40:29.240 --> 1:40:31.439 that didn't like the golf course at all, in fact, 1:40:31.560 --> 1:40:34.920 missed the cut. And then once you get something that's 1:40:35.040 --> 1:40:37.439 negative in your mind you don't like the golf course, 1:40:37.479 --> 1:40:39.320 you're done. There's no way you're going to play well. 1:40:39.840 --> 1:40:40.600 And I loved it. 1:40:41.080 --> 1:40:44.639 On Sunday, after Burdiying twelve, Pate had closed the gap 1:40:44.680 --> 1:40:48.200 between himself and the leaders. The year prior, he had 1:40:48.240 --> 1:40:50.960 won in Memphis, and in celebration he had leapt into 1:40:51.000 --> 1:40:54.519 the lake by the eighteenth green. So rumors were already 1:40:54.560 --> 1:40:57.559 going around TPC Sagrass that if he pulled off the victory, 1:40:58.000 --> 1:40:59.200 he would do the same today. 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:02.439 Anyway, as I walked back to thirteen t Can, I 1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:04.280 heard somebody kind of running up behind me and they 1:41:04.360 --> 1:41:06.800 grabbed my arm. I turned around. It was Alice Die 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:09.439 and she looked at me and she said, you've got 1:41:09.600 --> 1:41:11.880 to win this thing, and you got to throw Pete 1:41:11.880 --> 1:41:12.360 in the lake. 1:41:12.920 --> 1:41:16.479 Alice's idea, it seems, was that a little playful public 1:41:16.560 --> 1:41:19.240 come up and might do some good. It might provide 1:41:19.240 --> 1:41:22.280 an outlet for the rising hostility toward her husband and 1:41:22.360 --> 1:41:23.320 their design business. 1:41:23.800 --> 1:41:26.760 Of course, Pete had been catching ungodly amount of heat 1:41:26.880 --> 1:41:30.960 for this golf course, and Alice, I think was a 1:41:31.000 --> 1:41:33.599 little bit worried. Can I turn around? Looked at her 1:41:33.880 --> 1:41:36.120 just calm as can be. And everybody used to think, 1:41:36.280 --> 1:41:39.000 you know, when I played, I was cocky. I really 1:41:39.160 --> 1:41:41.800 wasn't cocky. I just you know, I knew in my 1:41:41.880 --> 1:41:44.080 heart I could pull it off, and I said, I'm 1:41:44.120 --> 1:41:44.559 gonna win. 1:41:45.160 --> 1:41:48.679 Pete went on to par thirteen, Birdie fourteen, and Birdie 1:41:48.760 --> 1:41:51.600 the Island seventeenth hole. He drove it right up the 1:41:51.680 --> 1:41:54.479 god on eighteen and had a five iron into the green. 1:41:55.320 --> 1:41:58.120 Until that point, the most famous moment in Pet's career 1:41:58.240 --> 1:42:01.599 had involved another seventy second whole five iron, this one 1:42:01.720 --> 1:42:04.680 at the nineteen seventy six US Open. He hit it 1:42:04.800 --> 1:42:07.400 so close to a dangerous whole location that some accused 1:42:07.479 --> 1:42:11.040 him of pulling it. Today, the approach to the eighteenth 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:14.400 that TPC sawgrass is still a scary shot. Even when 1:42:14.479 --> 1:42:17.240 pros are hitting eight or nine irons. Almost no one 1:42:17.360 --> 1:42:20.519 goes directly at the pen. But Pate did with a 1:42:20.640 --> 1:42:22.880 five iron, and he knocked it to two feet. 1:42:23.640 --> 1:42:26.360 For me to hit that shot like Ben Crenshaw hitting 1:42:26.439 --> 1:42:29.040 a you know, a six foot pot, he's not nervous. 1:42:29.439 --> 1:42:32.280 Jack Nicholas isn't nervous on a six foot, but Tom 1:42:32.320 --> 1:42:35.719 Watson wasn't nervous on a six foot, but Lee Trevino 1:42:35.880 --> 1:42:38.160 was never nervous on a nine yard wed shot, and 1:42:38.280 --> 1:42:40.719 Jerry Pate was never nervous hitting a long iron shot. 1:42:40.760 --> 1:42:44.800 I mean, I nerves weren't even in my vocabulary. And 1:42:45.000 --> 1:42:46.720 when I hit the five iron, and I went to 1:42:46.800 --> 1:42:49.679 the press room, and I think Tom Place was running 1:42:49.720 --> 1:42:51.720 the interview for the PGA Tour, and he said, you 1:42:51.800 --> 1:42:53.800 have any opening statements, and I go, yeah, I guess, 1:42:53.880 --> 1:42:56.080 I guess I pulled another five iron. 1:42:58.840 --> 1:43:01.320 But let's go back for a moment into the eighteenth fairway, 1:43:01.640 --> 1:43:04.000 just after Pate had stiffed his approach. 1:43:04.520 --> 1:43:07.000 And the camera was on me, little Davy Finch, you 1:43:07.080 --> 1:43:09.599 worked for CBS and Trick Kenny and is in the truck. 1:43:09.680 --> 1:43:12.160 I knew that, and you know, all my buddies at 1:43:12.160 --> 1:43:14.920 CBS were there, and I have no idea what they've said. 1:43:15.720 --> 1:43:19.360 But as I walked up the eighteenth fairway, Davy Finch says, 1:43:19.400 --> 1:43:21.599 you're gonna jump in the lake, and I said, Pete, 1:43:21.680 --> 1:43:22.920 die will go for a swim. 1:43:23.479 --> 1:43:25.519 As he waited for the groups behind him to finish. 1:43:25.960 --> 1:43:28.960 Pate saw Dean Beeman's wife Judy, who urged him to 1:43:29.000 --> 1:43:33.160 throw Dean in the water with Pete. As that was happening, CBS, 1:43:33.400 --> 1:43:36.080 with Vin Scully calling the action, was working a bit 1:43:36.120 --> 1:43:37.040 of TV magic. 1:43:37.600 --> 1:43:39.920 There was a gator that had been seen in the 1:43:40.120 --> 1:43:43.759 pond at seventeen. So Frank Trickinny In the Great CBS 1:43:43.960 --> 1:43:46.960 producer put up a split screen and there's kind of 1:43:47.280 --> 1:43:50.559 waiting for Jerry to throw them in at the trophy 1:43:50.640 --> 1:43:52.760 ceremony on one side and the other side of this 1:43:52.920 --> 1:43:55.600 gator in the water. But what Vin said was that 1:43:55.680 --> 1:43:58.439 this gator is on the lake at seventeen. The lake 1:43:58.479 --> 1:44:00.960 on eighteen is not connected. And so the television you 1:44:01.000 --> 1:44:03.719 were thinking they're about to jump into this gator infested pond. 1:44:06.640 --> 1:44:09.040 Now I didn't even think I was going to go in. 1:44:09.200 --> 1:44:10.720 I thought I would just throw them both in the 1:44:10.800 --> 1:44:12.840 lake and that would be it. And then they were 1:44:12.880 --> 1:44:14.560 out there and you know, in the lake. So I 1:44:14.680 --> 1:44:16.600 threw them both in the lake off the bulkhead, and 1:44:16.640 --> 1:44:19.120 then I jumped in behind them. But you know, I 1:44:19.200 --> 1:44:21.800 never realized how high it was. And when I jumped in, 1:44:22.160 --> 1:44:24.519 after the fact, I go back and look at those videos. Heck, 1:44:24.600 --> 1:44:26.680 it was about an eight foot off the water. That 1:44:26.840 --> 1:44:29.559 bulkhead was about eight foot, so it's a pretty big 1:44:29.680 --> 1:44:31.400 racing dive, but to be eight foot in the air, 1:44:31.960 --> 1:44:36.000 but we didn't care. There was so much, so much adrenaline, 1:44:36.439 --> 1:44:40.880 the emotion of winning. It was an exciting time and 1:44:41.000 --> 1:44:43.040 it was, you know, a memory. I'll never forget it. 1:44:43.640 --> 1:44:45.760 It was as great as winning the US Open, I 1:44:45.840 --> 1:44:46.320 can tell you. 1:44:46.880 --> 1:44:49.679 Dean Beeman that's his own way of remembering the experience. 1:44:50.280 --> 1:44:51.280 How did the water feel? 1:44:52.800 --> 1:44:54.519 It was pretty ugly. 1:45:01.200 --> 1:45:03.640 The jump in the lake, and it's theater of just 1:45:03.720 --> 1:45:06.679 desserts may have taken the edge off the player's outrage. 1:45:07.200 --> 1:45:10.240 Dean Beeman kept his job and Pete Die kept designing 1:45:10.280 --> 1:45:13.479 courses for the PGA Tour, but the pro's opinion of 1:45:13.560 --> 1:45:16.880 the stadium course at TPC Sawgrass didn't change. Right away. 1:45:17.720 --> 1:45:20.280 After the tournament was over, Pete's in the locker room 1:45:20.400 --> 1:45:23.040 changing He's just been thrown in the lake. Ed Snead 1:45:23.080 --> 1:45:25.400 and Tom Weiscoff were waiting for him, and Pete knew 1:45:25.439 --> 1:45:27.559 both of them from Ohio, and they had a question 1:45:27.560 --> 1:45:30.240 about the thirteenth hole, which is a par three there's 1:45:30.360 --> 1:45:33.439 water left, and the green is bisected by a pretty 1:45:33.800 --> 1:45:37.240 severe swale, and so the whole locations down on the left. 1:45:37.240 --> 1:45:39.200 They're by the water, but you can use that swale 1:45:39.280 --> 1:45:42.000 to funnel the tea shot towards the hole. However, if 1:45:42.040 --> 1:45:43.920 you miss on the wrong side of it, you're now 1:45:44.400 --> 1:45:46.680 putting down a very steep slope to the hole. Two 1:45:46.720 --> 1:45:50.120 putting is almost impossible. So Ed and Tom had played together. 1:45:50.280 --> 1:45:52.320 They said their t shots landed within two feet of 1:45:52.400 --> 1:45:54.599 each other. One of them funneled down towards the hole, 1:45:54.680 --> 1:45:57.920 the other stayed up top. And they were asking, how 1:45:57.960 --> 1:46:00.120 can we have a golf course where two shots that 1:46:00.320 --> 1:46:02.960 land within two feet of each other have such vastly 1:46:03.120 --> 1:46:06.439 different results. That doesn't seem fair. Pete looks at them 1:46:06.479 --> 1:46:09.040 and he says, well, the only reason that happened is 1:46:09.080 --> 1:46:11.920 because you guys are chicken. If you were aiming at 1:46:11.920 --> 1:46:14.160 the hole, that two feet wouldn't have mattered at all. 1:46:14.439 --> 1:46:16.040 But you're afraid of the water on the left, so 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:17.680 you're aiming for a slope in the green to try 1:46:17.720 --> 1:46:19.439 to save you, and that has too small of a 1:46:19.560 --> 1:46:21.960 margin for error, which you just told me you're not 1:46:22.000 --> 1:46:22.840 good enough to hit. 1:46:23.360 --> 1:46:26.720 In spite of appearances. Though Pete Die was not unmoved 1:46:26.760 --> 1:46:30.519 by the criticism. He wrote in his autobiography, the verbal 1:46:30.560 --> 1:46:33.880 assault against our new creation hit like a steak in 1:46:34.000 --> 1:46:37.519 my heart. Still he saw no evidence that the course 1:46:37.640 --> 1:46:40.280 was too hard. After all, Jerry Pate had won at 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:42.760 eight under. In order to make the top ten, you 1:46:42.880 --> 1:46:45.760 had to break par. In fact, Die said at the time, 1:46:46.160 --> 1:46:48.360 when they learn how to play the stadium course, we 1:46:48.479 --> 1:46:50.559 may have to put in some more obstacles to keep 1:46:50.600 --> 1:46:57.320 them totally frustrated. But ultimately it wasn't Die's call. After 1:46:57.439 --> 1:47:02.040 the eighty three Tournament Players Championship, the pro revolted. According 1:47:02.080 --> 1:47:04.840 to Adam Shuepack's account, a group of top players sent 1:47:04.880 --> 1:47:08.280 a letter of complaint to Commissioner Beman. Among the signees 1:47:08.360 --> 1:47:12.519 were Ben Crenshaw, Taylor Win, Jack Nicholas Craig Stadler, Tom 1:47:12.600 --> 1:47:16.560 Watson and Tom Weiscough. Quickly, Beaman arranged a meeting a 1:47:16.640 --> 1:47:20.400 TPC Sawgrass between Pete Dye and a player committee. They 1:47:20.479 --> 1:47:22.960 toured the course and the players grilled Die about the 1:47:23.040 --> 1:47:27.040 green contours. The commissioner saw their side well. 1:47:27.120 --> 1:47:29.720 Some of the lowest areas on the greens that were 1:47:29.800 --> 1:47:34.040 pin positions were in places that the green surfaces at 1:47:34.080 --> 1:47:34.760 the higher. 1:47:34.560 --> 1:47:38.160 Part of those greens were so severe that the ball. 1:47:38.080 --> 1:47:40.439 Coming off the high side down to the low side 1:47:40.479 --> 1:47:42.640 wouldn't stay on the green at all. So it was 1:47:42.720 --> 1:47:48.200 literally impossible to not three part, many many times from 1:47:48.360 --> 1:47:49.679 one transition part. 1:47:49.600 --> 1:47:52.360 Of a green to another. And the players were right. 1:47:52.560 --> 1:47:55.960 It was too severe. It was still too severe to 1:47:56.040 --> 1:48:00.519 be really a fair test to golf. Yeah, our were 1:48:00.560 --> 1:48:01.920 still hurt, but they were right. 1:48:04.040 --> 1:48:07.559 Months later, Ben Crenshaw, the co chair of the Architectural Committee, 1:48:07.720 --> 1:48:09.880 presented a list of changes to be made to the 1:48:09.920 --> 1:48:13.680 stadium course. At that point, I almost certainly saw the 1:48:13.720 --> 1:48:16.639 writing on the wall. How do you think mister Dye 1:48:17.120 --> 1:48:21.360 reacted to or felt about the fact that he was 1:48:21.760 --> 1:48:23.760 modifying or had to modify the course. 1:48:25.080 --> 1:48:27.519 The answer is he was very reluctant to make the 1:48:27.680 --> 1:48:31.760 changes that we wanted made. He wanted it as difficulty 1:48:31.800 --> 1:48:34.280 could because he wanted to challenge the best players in 1:48:34.360 --> 1:48:38.479 the world, and he didn't care. He didn't think golf 1:48:38.600 --> 1:48:41.720 was fair in the first place, so he was he 1:48:42.000 --> 1:48:47.000 was not. He was not happy with the continual modifications 1:48:47.040 --> 1:48:47.200 of it. 1:48:47.920 --> 1:48:51.400 But the modifications were made, mostly carried out by Die's 1:48:51.400 --> 1:48:55.679 associate Bobby Weed between eighty three and eighty eight. Weed 1:48:55.760 --> 1:48:58.280 once said, one of my biggest regrets of being in 1:48:58.360 --> 1:49:00.320 the business is I was the one who had to 1:49:00.400 --> 1:49:04.160 make all the changes. Those changes did, however, mollify the 1:49:04.240 --> 1:49:08.640 pros and TPC sawgrass, which today boasts Augusta like conditions, 1:49:08.680 --> 1:49:12.120 complete with flower beds accenting the arena of the seventeenth hole, 1:49:12.520 --> 1:49:15.840 is now highly regarded among PGA Tour members. In a way, 1:49:15.960 --> 1:49:19.639 it's become a symbol of the tour the Dean Beaman built, sturdy, 1:49:19.800 --> 1:49:23.439 impressive and efficiently run. Here's Adam Schuepeck. 1:49:24.200 --> 1:49:27.000 Dean came along at a time where the PGA Tour 1:49:27.280 --> 1:49:29.519 was just this mom and pop shop, and he really, 1:49:29.680 --> 1:49:32.880 during his twenty years tenures assembled the building blocks that 1:49:32.960 --> 1:49:35.600 are the foundation of the modern PGA Tour. And I 1:49:35.680 --> 1:49:38.280 feel like the PGA Tour is still running the Dean 1:49:38.360 --> 1:49:41.240 Beaman playbook. It's worked all this time, and it continues 1:49:41.320 --> 1:49:46.840 to seem almost invincible and impenetrable to whatever comes along. 1:49:47.240 --> 1:49:49.400 It's just a well oiled machine. 1:49:52.280 --> 1:49:52.439 Now. 1:49:52.560 --> 1:49:55.679 Whether the alterations Tode's original design were for the best 1:49:55.800 --> 1:49:58.400 remains a topic of debate in the Golf World one 1:49:58.479 --> 1:50:02.120 that breaks down along familiar lines. If you're a competitive 1:50:02.280 --> 1:50:05.519 or score oriented golfer, if you prize fairness and course 1:50:05.600 --> 1:50:09.120 design whatever that means, you'll likely see the changes as positive, 1:50:09.360 --> 1:50:13.920 even necessary. Others may argue that fairness is an irrelevant concern, 1:50:14.120 --> 1:50:17.080 especially when everyone is competing on the same course. These 1:50:17.120 --> 1:50:19.560 people may wish that more of the rugged quirk of 1:50:19.680 --> 1:50:24.120 Die's original design had been preserved. Tom Doak takes a 1:50:24.200 --> 1:50:25.280 fairly diplomatic view. 1:50:26.280 --> 1:50:28.200 I don't know if he can say the changes made 1:50:28.240 --> 1:50:31.280 the course better or worse. You know, it's all it's 1:50:31.320 --> 1:50:33.640 all a matter of opinion, and it's all your perspective 1:50:33.760 --> 1:50:36.280 on what the objective of the course should try to be. 1:50:36.880 --> 1:50:40.800 To me, it just made it different than the original intension, 1:50:41.240 --> 1:50:44.160 you know, in terms of how much pressure it put 1:50:44.200 --> 1:50:47.400 on the players to hit good shots consistently through the 1:50:47.439 --> 1:50:51.120 golf course. But you know, the bottom line is, you know, 1:50:51.280 --> 1:50:54.040 pros don't like shooting seventy five when they have an 1:50:54.280 --> 1:50:57.000 average to poor day. You know, they don't mind not 1:50:57.040 --> 1:50:59.160 shooting sixty seven all the time, but they don't they 1:50:59.200 --> 1:51:01.679 don't want the numbers to get up there and the TPC. 1:51:01.880 --> 1:51:04.919 When you were having a bad day. The darnwell reflected 1:51:04.960 --> 1:51:05.759 it on the scorecard. 1:51:07.920 --> 1:51:11.240 In a sense, Alice Stye's prediction had come true. But 1:51:11.360 --> 1:51:14.320 it wasn't Dean Beeman specifically who came into conflict with 1:51:14.400 --> 1:51:17.400 her husband. It was the players, and they had the 1:51:17.479 --> 1:51:21.080 last word. At some point, perhaps during that walk around 1:51:21.120 --> 1:51:24.240 TPC Sagrass with the committee in nineteen eighty three, he 1:51:24.360 --> 1:51:30.720 must have recognized that fact. After his triumph at the 1:51:30.760 --> 1:51:33.920 eighty two Players, Jerry Pate was living large and. 1:51:33.920 --> 1:51:35.880 I had a ten year exemption. It was a big deal. 1:51:35.920 --> 1:51:38.639 The most money anybody had ever won, ninety thousand dollars, 1:51:38.800 --> 1:51:41.400 a lot of endorsements, you know. Life was great. To 1:51:41.479 --> 1:51:43.600 have my own private plane, Jack and Arnold and I 1:51:43.720 --> 1:51:45.600 were the only three players had a private plane on 1:51:45.680 --> 1:51:48.200 the tour at that time. And I was twenty eight, 1:51:48.400 --> 1:51:50.720 you know, in pretty big tall cotton, I guess you 1:51:50.760 --> 1:51:53.519 could say for a Southern boy. And then in one 1:51:53.640 --> 1:51:56.000 swing in the first of June that was kind of 1:51:56.040 --> 1:51:58.040 into my golfing competitive career. 1:51:58.640 --> 1:52:01.400 He was on the driving range Secola, preparing for the 1:52:01.479 --> 1:52:04.639 Open by practicing one iron stingers into the wind off 1:52:04.680 --> 1:52:07.800 of hard ground. On one swing, he felt his left 1:52:07.840 --> 1:52:11.400 shoulder pop, and that injury turned Jerry Pate into one 1:52:11.400 --> 1:52:14.840 of golf's great what if stories. He never won again 1:52:14.880 --> 1:52:18.400 on the PGA Tour, but he stayed in the golf business, 1:52:18.560 --> 1:52:21.599 eventually starting a course design firm of his own. Over 1:52:21.640 --> 1:52:23.960 the years, he became close with Pete and Alice Dye. 1:52:24.439 --> 1:52:27.200 Their friendship had begun in nineteen seventy four when a 1:52:27.280 --> 1:52:29.559 twenty one year old Pate played the world amateur at 1:52:29.600 --> 1:52:33.240 Teeth of the Dog. Today, his firm looks after Teeth 1:52:33.240 --> 1:52:35.640 of the Dog and the other die courses at Cosa de. 1:52:35.720 --> 1:52:38.760 Compo as we've sort of taken on the role to 1:52:39.040 --> 1:52:43.439 keep the integrity of the aesthetics of the architecture and 1:52:43.479 --> 1:52:45.720 agronomics there. I go to Kasa da Kamp. 1:52:45.760 --> 1:52:46.880 I'm going next week down there. 1:52:46.920 --> 1:52:47.760 In fact, I go. 1:52:47.960 --> 1:52:50.120 You go down there a lot. And so it's a 1:52:50.160 --> 1:52:53.120 great honor to have met Pete Dye as a twenty 1:52:53.160 --> 1:52:55.400 one year old kid, and now I'm sort of stepped 1:52:55.439 --> 1:52:57.800 in his place at one of his favorite places, and 1:52:57.880 --> 1:52:58.639 that's where he died. 1:52:59.120 --> 1:53:01.960 If you listen to the Frida Egg podcast, you already 1:53:02.040 --> 1:53:04.600 know that Pete and Alice I are no longer with us. 1:53:05.560 --> 1:53:08.120 Pete passed away in January at the age of ninety 1:53:08.160 --> 1:53:11.840 five after a battle with Alzheimer's. Alice was ninety one 1:53:11.920 --> 1:53:16.439 when she died in February of last year. They're longtime friends. 1:53:16.640 --> 1:53:19.880 Like Dean Beaman, Vernon Kelly, and Jerry Pate, tend to 1:53:19.920 --> 1:53:22.719 speak about Pete and Alice in terms of both personal 1:53:23.000 --> 1:53:29.080 and historical. Their generosity, their accomplishments, their eccentric nomadic lifestyle, 1:53:29.479 --> 1:53:33.240 their influence on a generation of architects, their commitment to 1:53:33.320 --> 1:53:35.080 the game and to the craft. 1:53:36.360 --> 1:53:39.120 They didn't build golf courses for the money. They built 1:53:39.160 --> 1:53:40.720 golf coursecuse because Alice was. 1:53:40.720 --> 1:53:42.439 A great amateur player in her own right. 1:53:43.080 --> 1:53:46.640 Her husband was really a fine amateur player, and they 1:53:46.840 --> 1:53:50.320 gave so much to the game. I guess Alice was 1:53:50.400 --> 1:53:52.479 the first woman to sit on the PGA of America 1:53:52.560 --> 1:53:55.200 board that I remember, and I know she was head 1:53:55.240 --> 1:53:59.320 of the Architects Society. I mean they were for a woman. 1:53:59.439 --> 1:54:03.240 She did on incredible things in a man's world. And 1:54:03.360 --> 1:54:06.080 of course Pete was a legend. Oh my god, you 1:54:06.160 --> 1:54:08.000 know the stories Pete used to tell me about how 1:54:08.040 --> 1:54:10.360 he got fired by Augy Bush. 1:54:10.479 --> 1:54:12.679 You're fired by Herb Kohler and then they'd. 1:54:12.560 --> 1:54:15.000 Hire him back, and I'm sure Dean wanted to fire ms. 1:54:16.000 --> 1:54:19.559 He was quite a character, you know, and you couldn't 1:54:19.560 --> 1:54:22.519 help belove Pete Dye and Alice was just gosh, she 1:54:22.680 --> 1:54:25.000 was assault of the earth. She was like a mother 1:54:25.120 --> 1:54:28.240 to me, I'll tell you. And so I dearly miss 1:54:28.320 --> 1:54:30.679 him both, dearly missing both. 1:54:36.520 --> 1:54:39.440 This was the fourth episode of Frida Egg Stories. It 1:54:39.560 --> 1:54:42.880 was created and hosted by me Garrett Morrison, with mixing 1:54:42.960 --> 1:54:47.160 and engineering from Jay Eric. Our executive producer is Andy Johnson. 1:54:47.720 --> 1:54:57.680 Thanks for listening, all right, thanks for listening to another 1:54:57.880 --> 1:55:01.960 edition of the Friday Golf podcast asked and big thanks 1:55:02.240 --> 1:55:05.200 to Sean Martin for joining us, as well as p J. 1:55:05.360 --> 1:55:07.760 Clark for editing and producing this podcast.