1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to definitely 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:19,240 Speaker 1: Never Told Your protection of I Heart Radio and today, 3 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: since we're in Black History Month, and also there's been 4 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: a lot in the news lately, we want to come 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: back and talk about it about some anti l g 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: B d Q plus laws, including the Florida proposed law 7 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: Don't Say Gag, which got a lot of attraction. And 8 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: then here of some friends of mine living. I think 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: this happened in Athens, but this is like a five 10 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 1: year old kid drew drawing it said gay is okay, 11 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: and it's called this huge up work because parents, some 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: parents like you, have to take it down. There's being 13 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: sued for putting up this picture. So I know there's 14 00:00:57,760 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 1: a lot about that in the news and it's really 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: a trigger for a lot of people, and we will 16 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: come back and talk about that. But in honor of 17 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: these things, we thought we'd bring back this female first 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: that Eaves did around trans rights and being a Black 19 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: American trans woman and being put on trial for her identity. 20 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: So please enjoy. Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and 21 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 1: welcome to Stephane Never Told you the production of I 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Today. We're very excited. It's time for one 23 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: of our very favorite segments here on Sminthy Female First, 24 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: and that means we are joined by one of our 25 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: very favorite people, Eves. Hello, Eves, Hey, y'all, how are you? 26 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: How are you doing? Eves? I am doing well. I 27 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: feel like that's such a loaded question. Is that's true? 28 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: Any time anybody asked me how I'm doing, I'm like, oh, 29 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: I have to feel all the fields right now. Um. 30 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: But it's but it's a good thing, Like I'm I'm 31 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: okay with working through that. Um, but I feel, um, 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: I feel hopeful. Okay, I'll say that. Okay, that's supposed 33 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 1: to be. Yeah, Um, I'm I'm very excited to talk 34 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: about the person you've brought for us today, Eves. So 35 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: who who did you choose? I am very excited to 36 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: talk about Lucy hicks Anderson. She's who will be talking 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: about today. UM. And it's honestly so long overdue to 38 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: be talking about a trans woman on in this series. UM. 39 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: I feel like there's a lot that's not known about 40 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: her history. But I did a deep dive into all 41 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: of the newspaper articles on her, and it's super weird 42 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 1: and also fascinating. To kind of track the way that 43 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: um the local newspaper was talking about her, but UM, 44 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 1: just to say what her first is and was, UM 45 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: was she was considered one of the first trans people 46 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: to fight for trans rights in court and considered the 47 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 1: first like black American trans woman to be put on 48 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: trial for her identity. And as always, like you know, 49 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: there's so many first happening for trans women like today 50 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: just because of access, because of whose story is told 51 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:31,520 Speaker 1: and and distributed. And uh that being said, like trans 52 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: women have been pioneers for so long. UM, They've been 53 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: first for so long, but have so frequently gone unrecognized. UM. 54 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, that caveat that happens around first happens here 55 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: just like as we always do in other episodes. But UM, 56 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: it's particularly relevant in this case just because of how 57 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: frequent trans women and especially trans black women go and 58 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: recognized is in history absolutely and UM selfishly one of 59 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 1: my biggest frustrations when I research UM women of history 60 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:21,039 Speaker 1: is artist history in general. The terminology didn't exist and 61 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: I never ever ever want to um use the wrong 62 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: identity for someone if I can help it, UM, But 63 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: for so long there was no terminology and and because 64 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, it's I'm glad you put that caveat 65 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 1: um that so many people have probably definitely did have 66 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: first that are unrecognized. Yeah, I was definitely going to 67 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: bring up the language thing. I mean, as we know, 68 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: language is always changing, and we want to use the 69 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: terminology that a person would have wanted to use for themselves, 70 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: and that um Lucy Hicks Anderson has been put in 71 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 1: this category of you know, trans women, and for that 72 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: reason we can say it was that first for a 73 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: trans woman. But you know, terms like trans sexual, transgender, 74 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: UM and like to spirit are relatively new um through 75 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: like over the course of history in terms of when 76 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: they were coined and when they started becoming part of 77 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: popular usage. UM. But the trans, non binary and gender 78 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: queer identities have really existed for so long, for centuries. 79 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: And obviously gender is complicated, and our knowledge around it 80 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: and our understanding of and perception of it is consistently 81 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: UM transforming. And it's also so personal, you know, it's 82 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: so personal UM and so specific to a person. So 83 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: that means that like finding first for trans folks who 84 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: are no longer with us I can't speak for themselves 85 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: is really difficult. And but but still also so important 86 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: to me, is like, because that's so difficult. I think 87 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 1: that's why it's important to bring to the forefront a 88 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: person like Lucy hicks Anderson. Like I can't I can't 89 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: just say, oh, it's difficult. I'm not gonna like talk 90 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: about this person and try to frame it as a 91 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: first because the language around it is changing. Let me 92 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: just bring her story to the forefront, because that's what 93 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: needs to happen. Um. And that's on top of the 94 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: fact that they were so often marginalized and persecuted for 95 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: their identities, regardless of what the identity was called. UM, 96 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: And they had to be very discerning about how they 97 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: presented themselves and what they chose to record, because you know, 98 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: once it's it's it's once it's written, once it's recorded, 99 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: is there. And also on top of that, their histories 100 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: were often sidelined by siss folks who were actually doing 101 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 1: the recording of the history. So all those things like 102 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: that that just makes this a multilayered situation, but doesn't 103 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: negate the fact that Lucy hicks anderson story is one 104 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 1: that we deserve to learn about, no yea, yeah, yeah, 105 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: And I love this was such an amazing story. I love. 106 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: It was almost like a page turner because I thought, oh, 107 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: I first looked her up, okay, chef uh, and then 108 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: I was reading along, Oh wow, this is going in 109 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: a direction I really didn'ticipate. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of 110 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: twists and turns. I will say that in her story. 111 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: I'll just start off with the content warning up front, 112 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: because there is some mention of violence against women in 113 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: this conversation. Um, but yeah, it's like a it's twists 114 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: and turns in this story, I mean, and it's super fascinating. 115 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: And I think also telling that like the people who 116 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: were the ones who recorded her words, Like, I think 117 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: we have to be careful because in the newspapers that 118 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: quote her, it's like she's not quoting herself. Those are 119 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: other people who are saying what she said in the courtroom. 120 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: So but yeah, um, a lot of twists and turns. 121 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: So shall we shall we begin? Let's so she was 122 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: born in Waddi, Kentucky in eighteen eighty six. Um, she 123 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: grew up there and she knew from a young age 124 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: that she was a girl, so she wore dresses and 125 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: she started going by the name Lucy when she was 126 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: super young and the story. As the story goes, her 127 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: mother took her to a doctor when she was nine 128 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,559 Speaker 1: and the doctor recommended that they raised her as a girl, 129 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: and so she left school at age fifteen and she 130 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: began doing domestic work. So after a while, um, a 131 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,679 Speaker 1: little bit later in life, she married her first husband, 132 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 1: Clarence Hicks, and that was in nineteen twenty and she 133 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: did later divorce him in nineteen twenty nine. They actually 134 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: separated I think around nineteen six, like before they got 135 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: to the point of actual divorce, they have been separated 136 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: for a while, but when they were together, they moved 137 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: to Oxnard, California, And so she did domestic work there too. 138 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: And as you brought up earlier, Andy, she worked as 139 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: a chef. She was like she was popping in Oxnard. 140 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: After she saved enough money, she purchased a boarding house 141 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 1: and she ran a brothel there and a speak easy 142 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: And this was during prohibition and so yeah, like I said, 143 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: she was popping. Like she was really well known for 144 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: in the community. She would host parties um that people 145 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: loved to have her at in terms of her serving 146 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: and her hosting and her cooking. And she also appeared 147 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 1: in the city and County courts a lot um when 148 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: she and other sex workers in her establishment were arrested 149 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,680 Speaker 1: in raids, and reportedly when she got arrested one night, 150 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: Oxnard's quote unquote leading banker built her out because he 151 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: had planned a huge dinner party that would have failed 152 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 1: if she were actually incarcerated, so he wanted her to 153 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: be there so badly built her out. My dinner party 154 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: is in danger my money, Yeah, which I think speaks 155 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: to just how well liked and well loved she was 156 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: in the community there. Yeah. So in nineteen forty four 157 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: she married Ruben Anderson, who was in the army, And 158 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: there's not a ton of information out there about her life. 159 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: But according to scholar see Riley Snortonum who wrote the 160 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: book Black on Both Sides, a Racial History of trans Identity, 161 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: which has a lot of cool information on Lucy Hicks 162 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: Anderson in there, but a lot that was documented about 163 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: her was taken from articles that were written between nineteen 164 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: and nineteen forty six, and that's when her chials actually 165 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: started getting a lot of media coverage across the US. 166 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: Um A lot of it was obviously centered in California 167 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: because of like ox Start, and that's where it was based, 168 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: but there was also national coverage of her court cases, 169 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: which we'll get to in a second. I would recommend end, like, 170 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: if you're interested in learning more about Lucy Hicks Anderson 171 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: reading those newspapers. They are documented online, like you can't 172 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: get access to them online. But there is a lot 173 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: of dehumanizing, anti trans language and in those in those 174 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: articles as well as like a lot of miss gendering. 175 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: There's dead naming in there, and they put her name 176 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: in quotes. Uh so, yeah, like that's expect that when 177 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: you read through those articles, like they often appended negro 178 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: to to her name. They were like Lucy Hicks Anderson 179 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: negro or Lucy Hicks negro, like that was an essential 180 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: part of rame. Um and often too would call her 181 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: like John Doe and then put Lucy in parentheses, or 182 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: like just straight up call her the Oxnart negro as 183 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: if there was only one. There was only one black 184 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: person in Oxnard at the time, and you bet it 185 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: was Lucy Hicks Anderson. Um. But all that said, like 186 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: there is uh that that's the language that you'll encounter 187 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: when you're reading these descriptions of all the stuff that 188 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: was happening to Lucy at the time. We have some 189 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: more for you listeners, but first we have a quick 190 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back, 191 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsor. Speaking of articles, um, there is this 192 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: one that that comes up that's kind of a flashpoint 193 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 1: in her life. On November five, there was an issue 194 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 1: of Time magazine that included an article on Lucy. Yeah, 195 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: and it was it was the title of the article 196 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: was sin and Sue Flay. Oh you can imagine what 197 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: this is going to be about, um. And it was 198 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: titled that because, according to to the article, that's what 199 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: Lucy trafficked in sin and to Flay quotes trafficked in um. 200 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 1: And the article describes how she cooked for ox Nart's 201 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: leading families, and how her cooking was the quote unquote 202 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: talk of the town. So I want to read an 203 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: excerpt from the article so you can get a better 204 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 1: sense of her character and appearance through the through the 205 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: words of the person who wrote the article. But here's 206 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: the quote. As ox Nart grew, Lucy's lone body house 207 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: expanded into a half block of frame buildings, each well furnished, 208 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,599 Speaker 1: neatly painted, and with window boxes full of geraniums. In 209 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 1: Ventura County. She became as well known as ox Nart's 210 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: huge American Crystal Sugar Company refinery. Lucy was the more 211 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 1: spectacular site. She wore bright, low cut silk dresses, from 212 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: which her slat like collar bones protruded, and she affected 213 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: picture hats and high heeled shoes. Her wigs were her pride. 214 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: She had a long black, wavy one or straight bobbed 215 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: one and for special occasions, a shoulder limp job in 216 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: red um. Yeah. So her wigs is like one thing 217 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: people love to talk about in these in these articles, 218 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 1: they were like obsessed with her wigs. Um. Yeah. So 219 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: it also said in the article she gave generously to 220 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: the Red Cross, to the Boy Scouts, and to the 221 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: charities and all in all in total, like the the 222 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: articles really laudatory of of her life in ox Nard 223 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 1: and the things that she did in ox nart Um. 224 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: It was said that in the article she was immune 225 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: to the law because of her local fame and knowledge 226 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: of town secrets. And I'm like, oh, I want to 227 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: know these towns pecause but that those weren't those weren't mentioned, 228 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: so I'm like, well, what are those anyway? She had 229 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: that also said that she had purchased nearly fifty dollars 230 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 1: in war bonds. Basically, the tone of the article in 231 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: the beginning was Lucy was doing really well. You know, 232 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: she was this great community figures. He did a lot 233 00:14:57,760 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. She was you know, she 234 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: was money. Um. But at the end of the article 235 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: it was like this if not Shamalan twist, where it 236 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: was like like it said that a sailor had gotten 237 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,160 Speaker 1: an s t I from one of the women at 238 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: Lucy's brothel, and of course it's posturing this in a 239 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: way where like that's a bad thing. And the article 240 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: said that the women there, including Lucy, were forced to 241 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: undergo a medical exam, um, when this sailor had brought 242 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: up this instance. Um. And there's this kicker at the 243 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: end of the article. Um. The very last sentence of 244 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: the article was Lucy was a man. Like that was 245 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: the punchline. Um. And the whole life that they described 246 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: so glowingly up until that point was like part of 247 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: the joke. Um, so yeah, super bad. But it was 248 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: this led to like a basically another attain of events, 249 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: like it was a snowball. After this whole forced medical 250 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: examination situation, um, So it was feel that Lucy was 251 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: assigned mill at birth um. And then at that point 252 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 1: the Ventura County District Attorney voided her marriage to Reuben 253 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: and arrested her for perjury. So he justified that charge 254 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: by saying that she signed the marriage license saying that 255 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: there were no legal objections to the marriage. So in 256 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: that case, at the time, marriage was supposed to be 257 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: between a man and a woman. That was how marriage 258 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: was defined, and in their eyes, Lucy was not a woman. 259 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:35,240 Speaker 1: So by saying that there were no legal adjusttions to 260 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: the marriage by signing the marriage license, she was in 261 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: effect committing fraud, like she was lying. So she pleaded 262 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: not guilty to that charge of perjury. And at the 263 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: same time, the whole time, the district attorney was maintaining 264 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,280 Speaker 1: that she was a man and therefore incapable of marrying Reuben. 265 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's how that the whole situation kind of 266 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: started in snowballed into a lot more back and forth 267 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: with the court system. Yeah, I feel like that Times 268 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: article was just kind of like a gotcha article. They 269 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: were trying to be so shocking, trying to get the 270 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: shock value. It's such a weird like way of leading 271 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 1: out to it. I also think that it worked in 272 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: opposition to the goal that they were trying to that 273 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:26,600 Speaker 1: it seems like they were trying to go for, which 274 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,679 Speaker 1: is like, whoa you. She's an amazing person as far 275 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: as you tell me, Like the first three quarters of 276 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: this article and it wasn't that long, the first five 277 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: six of this article is are very praising of Lucy. 278 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: So like, as far as I can tell, like what's 279 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: the issue, which was she sounds like she's like a 280 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: source of joy in this community. Um, that's that's the 281 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 1: impression that I got from it. Um. So yeah, it 282 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: seems it's very uh weird, but also you know, not 283 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: to be expecting, you know. Yeah. So she went through 284 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: a week long trial in Vncia County and there was 285 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: medical testimony given as a trial where the doctors attested 286 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: that Lucy was a man um and Louise Gale testified 287 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: as Lucy's sister. She said that she was Lucy's sister, 288 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: and she affirmed Lucy's testimony that a doctor had told 289 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,320 Speaker 1: her that she was quote more of a girl than 290 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,959 Speaker 1: a boy in her childhood, referring back to the um 291 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: part of her life that we spoke about earlier when 292 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: her mother took her to the doctor. So Lucy testified 293 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: that Reuben was her husband. When they asked her, is 294 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: room and your husband? She said yes, And she also 295 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: said that she planned on staying with him till death. 296 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: Do us part um. Yeah, So Lucy's defense attorney presented 297 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: this theory that Lucy had quote unquote hidden organs that 298 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: couldn't be discovered until she went through an autopsy after 299 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: she died. So I want to highlight because this just 300 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: says it so concisely um in a way better than 301 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,080 Speaker 1: I could. But I wanted to highlight apart from snortins 302 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: black on both sides book that I mentioned earlier, I'm 303 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: just gonna read a quote here in exchange for an 304 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: unincarcerated life, hicks Anderson's hidden organs defense offered up her 305 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: corpse to be put to indefinite institutional use, indexing the 306 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: medical industries sustained practice of experimentation on black bodies in 307 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: the United States. Though hicks Anderson's defense comprised a critique 308 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: of medical wisdom as a science of the surface, it 309 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 1: also highlighted how black flesh had long been central to 310 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: medical professional knowledge and it's so relevant to things still 311 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: happening today. You know, black bodies being offered up for 312 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: medical experimentation and for use as if they should just 313 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: be objectified and treated as flesh in the wording of 314 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: the author from that quote. Yeah, and it's just gross 315 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: to put it plainly. So on November seven, ninety five, 316 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: a jury found Lucy guilty of perjury and she was 317 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: incarcerated in the men's section of the Ventura County Jail, 318 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: something that's also still happening to this day. Um. She 319 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: was facing a term of up to fourteen years in 320 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: state prison. I think it was a minimum of one 321 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: year and a maximum of fourteen years in state prison 322 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,199 Speaker 1: for quote unquote perjury UM on this marriage marriage license. 323 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: But she was in the end sentenced to ten years 324 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: on probation UM, with the first year spent in county jail. 325 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 1: So she was incarcerated at the county jail from December 326 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty five to May of nineteen forty six, 327 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: and in early June of that year. After she was released. 328 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: In early June of nineteen forty six, she held a 329 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: political rally and cook out to encourage people to vote. 330 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: And you can read an article about this talking about 331 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: the political rally that she held. Actually UM, and they 332 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: said it was a democratic political rally. But the quotes 333 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: that they give from Lucy Hicks Anderson in the article itself, 334 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,120 Speaker 1: and she's like, I'm not for anybody, you know, I'm 335 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: just here. She was kind of very neutral in the situation, UM, 336 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: even though I think the rally was for like sheriff 337 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: and obviously positioned within the times in the conversations we're 338 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: having around you know, really taking a stand in the 339 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 1: ways that we talk about policing. UM right now, is 340 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 1: it was just funny to read that article like the 341 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: context of contemporary times. But all that said, UM, there 342 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: is an article about that political rally, and and you know, 343 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: positioning her as this person who's upstanding in the community 344 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: and like holding these events that people want to go to. UM. 345 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: But she would soon being car start again, So rewinding 346 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, back in October of nineteen, 347 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: an FBI agent actually arrested her for failing to register 348 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: for the draft in World War Two. While she was 349 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: awaiting her trial for perjury, her charge for violating the 350 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: Selective Service Act was actually dismissed, so that charge for 351 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: not registering for the draft was dismissed, but that FBI 352 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: agent went hunting for information on whether she was getting 353 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: allowances from the government for being the wife of a 354 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: service members. He was like, I'm gonna get you now, 355 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: Like maybe I couldn't get you for the draft thing, 356 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 1: but you know, we're gonna find something. Um. Yeah. So 357 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: Lucy did admit to getting texts from Reuben, but the 358 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: question was whether she was just getting allotments for Reuben 359 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: or she was getting a wife a quote unquote wife 360 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: allowance which was partly from a service member's pay and 361 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 1: then partly from the U. S. Treasury. So that made 362 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: it a whole different situation since he would be getting 363 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: money from the actual U. S. Government. UM So if 364 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: the latter was the case, she would also be accused 365 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 1: of defrauding the government. So of course, this entire time, 366 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: Lucy was having to affirm that she was a woman 367 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,440 Speaker 1: like she was having to defend her identity. Reuben was 368 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: also arrested. Her husband was also arrested while he was 369 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: on duty at Mitchell Field in New York. So he 370 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: was a corporal in the Army Air Forces. Um. This 371 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: was before the Air Force was established as a separate branch. 372 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 1: So they were convicted of fraud UM and Lucy was 373 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: sentenced to a year in jail and a nine hundred 374 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: dollar fine in July of nineteen forty six. And so 375 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 1: that nine hundred dollars was about the same amount that 376 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 1: she had gotten in allotments. And just to put that 377 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 1: in context, like that's about twelve thousand dollars today when 378 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: you're accounting for inflation. Reuben was also sentenced to a 379 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: year in jail in New York. So yeah, um, Lucy. 380 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: She was also prohibited from wearing traditionally feminine clothes um. 381 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 1: And when they were released from jail, they were banned 382 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: from returning to Osnard and Lucy was still on probation. 383 00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: But in nineteen forty nine, Lucy was released from the 384 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: terms of her probation after it was discovered that she 385 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: had sold her ox and Art property. So the judge 386 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: still advised that she stay out of ox and Art 387 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: for at least the next year. But you know, after 388 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: at that point, Lucy she rarely returned to oxn Ard 389 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: and she spoke of missing her friends there. Of course, UM, 390 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: I can only imagine what it was like for her 391 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: to go through that like emotionally and and be essentially 392 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 1: eggs out from a place where she created so much 393 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:35,800 Speaker 1: love and so much community and like was thriving mhm 394 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: in a way. Obviously there was still a lot that 395 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,719 Speaker 1: she was up against, but um was a very active 396 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,520 Speaker 1: member of her community. UM. Yeah. So they lived in 397 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,200 Speaker 1: Los Angeles at that point, and Lucy died in Los 398 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: Angeles in nineteen fifty four, and it was reported in 399 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: the Ventura County Star Free Press, which is where that's 400 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 1: the newspaper. You can read a lot of the articles 401 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: that reported on her kind of like especially in that 402 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: nine team forty time period where it's just kind of like, 403 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: okay article, there's a point where's like an article every 404 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: other day following her court case. Um. But yeah, it 405 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,080 Speaker 1: was reported there that a niece was with her at death, 406 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: um and unnamed Denise. I don't think they named the 407 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: niece in the article, but that they also said that 408 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,920 Speaker 1: her creamation and her burial were unattended. We have a 409 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: little bit more for you listeners, but first we have 410 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsor 411 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 1: and her back. Thank you sponsor. So that's the story 412 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: of Lucy Hicks Anderson and definitely one that I think 413 00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: it's so important to tell and it's also just so 414 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: interesting to look back on. Yeah, um, I totally agree. Uh. 415 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,680 Speaker 1: I was so, I was so glad that you you 416 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: picked this one. And again I agree that I hadn't 417 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: heard of her earlier. Uh So it's always great to 418 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: spotlight these people that we should be spotlighting. Um. And 419 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: her story is amazing, Like I I wasn't exaggerating before 420 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: when I was like learning about her so excitedly and 421 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: it was like, oh and this and then there's a 422 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: brothel and it's prohibition, but everybody liked there so much 423 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: they let it go on all right. And yeah, having 424 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: reading about someone who was so well loved and it 425 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: seems so generous with her herself and her time and 426 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 1: her money. Um yeah, and it just made me sort 427 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 1: of like it was very inspiring. And also sometimes I 428 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: get really model in these days about like I remember 429 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: when we could do this thing with people, and just 430 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: reading about all the community functions she she planned and 431 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: like the welcome home parties and right, she just seems 432 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: so kinmes um. I mean, according to the articles and 433 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 1: even just what we you were talking about, and the 434 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: small bits that I was able to reset her. She 435 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: was a pillar in that community. UM and because the 436 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,120 Speaker 1: doctor was forcibly trying to I don't know, identify all 437 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: the women in the brothel, which sounds very political in 438 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: its way. Of course, UM had to take down a 439 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: woman who only wanted to love people. And I don't 440 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's just such a big statement of this 441 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: label of what did this do? How did this help? 442 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,680 Speaker 1: It help no one? There was nothing about what happened 443 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: that actually helped anyone other than her coming out and 444 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: saying I will fight for who I am. And this 445 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: is who I am is not even bigger than I'm 446 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: going to fight because I am a woman and I've 447 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: been a woman, and I don't understand you've been accepting 448 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: me as a woman. That's what you've seen. And there 449 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: was no question until this nonsense essentially comes about. And 450 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: I do love I did watch a small, a short 451 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: documentary on her when they said she was she was 452 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: not a bus skirting the rules, and I'm like, I 453 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: like her so much. I wish I had that courage. 454 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, well then that's what makes it so like 455 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: extra sad that she essentially was exiled from a police 456 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 1: She was so well, uved and I've built up um 457 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: all these friends and then UM for her funeral to 458 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: be unattended. That's that's so Sadh. Yeah, I think that. Yeah, 459 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: like you said, Samantha, it just it doesn't make any 460 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 1: sense to pull somebody, I mean out of a community 461 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: that was contributing so much to that community. Is like, 462 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: what is this going to do for you? But that's 463 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: how anti transness works, That's how anti blackness works, UM, 464 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: and all of those things that are wrapped up in 465 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: in the life and story of Lucy hicks Anderson that 466 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: you know there was and then the issue of morality 467 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,479 Speaker 1: on top of that in terms of her being along 468 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: with with and obviously all the things of the unnamed 469 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: sex workers because I didn't see any names of the 470 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: sex workers who were also involved in in all of 471 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: the rates that were happening. But I think it's worthy 472 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: to call out just that, you know, there were a 473 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 1: lot of other people who are also implicated in the 474 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: things that were happening along with Lucy hicks Anderson. But yeah, 475 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: it's just indicative and the thing that's still happening today 476 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: when it comes to the way that trans black people 477 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: are treated, UM and it's like, you know, frustrating to 478 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: see that Lucy Hicks Anderson was born in eight teen 479 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: eight six, like that was a long time ago. Um, 480 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: she operated during Prohibition, which like feels so long ago 481 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: for us. It was it was, you know, over the 482 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: whole course of history, not super long, but I mean, 483 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: you know, we're so removed from from that kind of 484 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: time right now. So yeah, it is frustrating in so 485 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: many ways to see what Lucy hicks Anderson had to 486 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: go through. Um And even though a lot of her 487 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: story isn't told through her eyes and through the eyes 488 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: of the people who are writing these articles, it is 489 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: refreshing to be able to kind of get a chance 490 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 1: to form this image of a person, this full round character, 491 00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: because I think so often, um, we don't get that 492 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: opportunity to see a person as round and as dynamic 493 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: as Lucy hicks Anderson has been presented. Like I was 494 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: saying earlier in that Time Magazine article is like y'all 495 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,080 Speaker 1: try to make her flat, but guess what y'all did 496 00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: the opposite, Like y'all y'all didn't take her personality away 497 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: from her, Like y'all still afforded her that And I 498 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: can see that through the article, no matter what y'all 499 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: were trying to do. And you know, I appreciate getting 500 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: the opportunity to at least try to be able to 501 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: imagine Lucy Hicks Anderson in this more expansive way where, um, 502 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: I see that y'all were trying to kind of make 503 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: fun of her in these articles. The way y'all talked 504 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: about how she she walked in with her wigs on 505 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,360 Speaker 1: and her her quote unquote women's suits on, and the 506 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: way that she spoke about her husband, Ruben and like 507 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: saying yeah, like we're good. And when they found out 508 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: that she had been she actually had been married before Ruben, 509 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,120 Speaker 1: that was a whole other thing, you know. They were like, oh, 510 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: like you were divorced for somebody help. Yeah. So they 511 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: did a lot to try to tear her down, But 512 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 1: I was still able to see her as this, this 513 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: fool person, this whole um human being, I think, and 514 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: and looking back at the documentation of her, and I am, 515 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,360 Speaker 1: you know, happy that we were able to to bring 516 00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: these stories some light today. Yes, it yeah, And I 517 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: just keep thinking because it's very small bit of what 518 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: we have in her history. As you were saying, Um, 519 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: and it's very limited through the articles, but yeah, everything 520 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: you read, every time I was jumped from one thing 521 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 1: to another. It was just pretty much how she kept 522 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: pushing and did bigger like whether it's you know, saying 523 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: at a young age, no, I'm a girl and the 524 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: doctor being like, yeah, you are to coming out at 525 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: fifteen making our own living, to being able to pay 526 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: fifty dollars for a home and business and she's just 527 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: doing it. And it's like, um, there's really not much 528 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: to be said other than she's a success in the 529 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: story and she made sure that people need well and 530 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: you I guess history made sure that we knew she 531 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,600 Speaker 1: was successful. And then that's it, and that's what she 532 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: got outed by. Yeah. Yeah. Um it's like I'm not 533 00:32:56,520 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: I'm not being fooled. No, no, um it is. I 534 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: mean it's terribly terribly frustrating and sad, but also kind 535 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: of like you're saying you've it's almost funny because it's 536 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: like you're saying all of these nice things, like if 537 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: you're just giving me these sort of facts and they 538 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: all sound really good, like mm hmm, it's like they've 539 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: just they were missing the whole point. Um, and it 540 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,640 Speaker 1: it almost becomes a joke on them, and of course 541 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: the power dynamics make it a dangerous thing. Um, and 542 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 1: one that yeah, we're still seeing today, so there is 543 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: that that layer to it. But yeah, I mean, especially 544 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: with our modern eyes, I was reading a lot of 545 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,479 Speaker 1: these articles like this person sounds amazing, but I can 546 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: tell you're trying to convince me that they're not. Oh yeah, 547 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: want of my friends with her. She's the connection that 548 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: I would have wanted to have right at that point 549 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,839 Speaker 1: in time. Ye. I we need the dinner party really 550 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 1: to get her out of jail because she was so essential. Yeah. Yeah, 551 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: And I just wanted to, Um, I think I know 552 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,839 Speaker 1: that the documentary you were talking about, the short documentary. Um, 553 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: we've been around dot com, yes, yes, yeah, we've been around. Yeah. 554 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,520 Speaker 1: I just wanted to, you know, call attention to that. 555 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: Thank you as always for for stopping by Eve's. UM, 556 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: always a pleasure, and we really appreciate you bringing these stories. 557 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: UM legitimately excited every time to figure to learn who 558 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: you are spotlighting. UM. So thank you, thank you, thank you. 559 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: Where can the listeners find you? Um? So y'all can 560 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 1: find me at Eve's. Jeff co on Twitter. You can 561 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: find me not apologizing on Instagram. I am no longer 562 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: the host of This Day in History Class, but there's 563 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: a huge backlog of episodes for the show, So if 564 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 1: you still want to hear my voice on the show, UM, 565 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: you can listen to This Day in History Class. UM. 566 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: You can also listen to Unpopular and That's what I got. 567 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: Y'all awesome, awesome. Definitely go check Eve's out listeners. She's amazing. UM. 568 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 1: You can also contact us if you want. Yes, that's right, 569 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: we have an email address. It is Stuff Media, mom 570 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 1: Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can also find 571 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at stuff Whatever told You are on 572 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks as always to our 573 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: super producer Andrew Howard. Thanks and thanks to you for 574 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: listening Stuff I've Never Told You as a production of 575 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: I R Radio. For more podcast from iHeart Radio, you 576 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,920 Speaker 1: can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 577 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.