Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 1: you a Charlotte. You guys, this is very, very, very exciting.
Speaker 1: We are having the very first return guest. I'm so
Speaker 1: thankful to Missalinate. It's brilliant.
Speaker 2: You back. I'm so honored and grateful to be back
Speaker 2: for my second time, my second appearance.
Speaker 1: You just count down the days so we can get
Speaker 1: you back.
Speaker 2: Let's go. It's my favorite season.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's my favorite season two.
Speaker 2: Season three is my favorite.
Speaker 1: Right, everything jelled.
Speaker 2: Everything jails. That's usually how it goes with the season
Speaker 2: three of shows. But I think for this, this particular series,
Speaker 2: I think something happens about season three, like even for
Speaker 2: me and I was watching it in real time at
Speaker 2: the time and just really experiencing what everybody else was experiencing.
Speaker 2: This this show that was very prolific but was very
Speaker 2: much a product of its time.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yes, indeed, yeah, which you're going to discuss, guys,
Speaker 1: because this episode is called No ifs Ands or Butts.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It aired July fifth, in the year two thousand, twenty
Speaker 1: five years ago, so bonkers to me. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: it does seem like another lifetime ago. But on the
Speaker 1: other hand, like, would you literally think twenty five years?
Speaker 1: It's like it makes no sense.
Speaker 2: Right, I'm forty one, So I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: in my.
Speaker 1: Twenties, and where were you when you were in your twenties.
Speaker 2: I was still in Chicago, but you know, gearing up
Speaker 2: to come to La got it, but really with the
Speaker 2: desire and to be a television writer. And I've said
Speaker 2: this publicly before, but I think Sex and the City
Speaker 2: really made me want to take it very seriously. And
Speaker 2: I was very charmed and moved by the voiceover for sure,
Speaker 2: the character development, the friendships on the SHO show. I
Speaker 2: think it's why it's on Netflix and everywhere else. And
Speaker 2: we continue to go back, and you guys were able
Speaker 2: to keep going back for different bites at the Apple.
Speaker 2: No pun intended, but uh yeah, I think I was
Speaker 2: sort of really seeing a different kind of TV shows
Speaker 2: because I did grow up on multiicams, you know, whether
Speaker 2: it be Friends, Fresh Prince, you know, Cosby Show, a
Speaker 2: different world. And I think what was so special about
Speaker 2: this was like, oh no, this is like a mini
Speaker 2: movie every week. Yeah, and it is, but it's also
Speaker 2: like a novel. Yeah, And I'm just sort of so
Speaker 2: taken by these characters, and it really was I think
Speaker 2: my Generations, you know Mary Tyllenmore show, and how that
Speaker 2: was so significant for women in the seventies. This, I
Speaker 2: think the two thousands was sort of that was our
Speaker 2: new sort of awakening.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, and I think for us, like we were
Speaker 1: just in it, and like I was telling you that
Speaker 1: we had Kylon and I guess it won't have aired
Speaker 1: by the time everyone's listening to us, But it was
Speaker 1: super interesting to be reflecting back on it because we
Speaker 1: had never reflected together. We had never talked about it.
Speaker 2: Nothing crazy, you know, we were just.
Speaker 1: In it back then, and we didn't have social media,
Speaker 1: so we didn't have this immediate response in real time,
Speaker 1: which had we aired this particular episode where Samantha decides
Speaker 1: to date a black man for the first time ever,
Speaker 1: which is so bizarre.
Speaker 2: Okay, well the.
Speaker 1: First time she implies it greatly, okay, And I went
Speaker 1: and looked up a few things, like the actress who
Speaker 1: plays the sister who's so great. The actors are also great.
Speaker 1: Her name is Sandra Oakley. She's very good, and she
Speaker 1: was already friends with the guy Ossio high Smith, who
Speaker 1: plays the guy that Samantha dates Shabon. They were already friendly,
Speaker 1: which was so nice, nice, and they were very excited.
Speaker 1: And then she said later, like maybe even just a
Speaker 1: couple days later, she was like, oh, I wish it
Speaker 1: had been a different story. And I feel so bad
Speaker 1: that she felt that, like we just didn't do that. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't think Lena.
Speaker 2: Well, the actress, the actress playing his sister, wished it
Speaker 2: was a different story. I'm curious in terms of how meaning.
Speaker 1: I think basically it was for Vanity Fair. They did
Speaker 1: an article and Vanity Fair about it relatively recently. So
Speaker 1: she was reflecting back on how she was in her
Speaker 1: twenties and she was going to auditions and dancing and
Speaker 1: doing all different things, and it was a big part
Speaker 1: for her. She was excited to get it. She's excited
Speaker 1: to be on our set, and she said our set
Speaker 1: was a very positive experience. I was so happy to
Speaker 1: hear that always wonderful to hear. But then she said
Speaker 1: just the fact. I think the thing she was most
Speaker 1: lamenting was that she and Samantha fight, that it was
Speaker 1: an angry black woman type of a thing that wasn't
Speaker 1: And I think the problem with this episode and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to hear what you have to say. Is
Speaker 1: that for some reason, and I think I know what
Speaker 1: in my memory we were doing or what the idea was,
Speaker 1: we decided to try to tackle the fact that there
Speaker 1: were no people of color in the show, which is
Speaker 1: not how New York City is obviously, but this particular
Speaker 1: group of people, and we had discussed it. It had
Speaker 1: come up different people would bring it up in interview
Speaker 1: situations or whatever, and they would say, like, you do
Speaker 1: do you feel to us, the actors, do you feel
Speaker 1: this is reflective of New York? And we would always
Speaker 1: kind of stammer, you know, and we'd say like, ah,
Speaker 1: you know, we don't write it, and you know, we're
Speaker 1: playing this kind of really specific group of people based
Speaker 1: on real people, and this is what their lives is like,
Speaker 1: which I don't really know if that's true, right because
Speaker 1: I don't really know those people that we were kind
Speaker 1: of playing.
Speaker 2: I mean, to me, it feels very authentic. Actually yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: okay for white women hang out with each.
Speaker 1: Other, for sure, But what about one removed? Right, like
Speaker 1: my question would be, and we do start, you know,
Speaker 1: soon Sonya Brog is coming on right like soon, it
Speaker 1: does start to loosen up a bit, thank god, But like,
Speaker 1: are you only hanging out? Do you only ever see
Speaker 1: white people? Like if you look back, because now I'm
Speaker 1: watching every episode right like it is kind of amazing,
Speaker 1: Like in restaurants or in bars, it's just white people.
Speaker 2: Well, I it's interesting because there is a level of
Speaker 2: people people don't understand is that there's a uh, there
Speaker 2: are companies that actually do like day player casting or
Speaker 2: extras casting. And so I think what is also happening
Speaker 2: because oftentimes you guys are be in real restaurants and
Speaker 2: sometimes you're I think the place you guys usually go
Speaker 2: is a fictitious place obvious. Yes, yes, it's obviously there
Speaker 2: for that reason. So I think this sort of is
Speaker 2: its own world. I mean, there's another thing about sex
Speaker 2: and the City too, which is very specific. It's something
Speaker 2: I actually really like is that we never meet the
Speaker 2: character's parents and that intentional. It was intentional, and so
Speaker 2: this is it is a fantasy of New York in
Speaker 2: a way. But also what is sort of grappling with
Speaker 2: are all these different topics. And I feel the same
Speaker 2: way about girls. I don't want a black or brown
Speaker 2: character put into the frame for Quota's sake, true, I
Speaker 2: just don't good point. I don't enjoy it. I don't
Speaker 2: like it because either you're doing that to pacify or
Speaker 2: you're doing it in a way where if there's going
Speaker 2: to be some sort of specificity about the character, it
Speaker 2: depends on who's in the writer's room as well. So
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know in terms of for the
Speaker 2: And I know a lot of the writers that were
Speaker 2: on Sex Andicity, you know, I've gotten a chance to
Speaker 2: meet many of them. And yeah, I think for the
Speaker 2: most part, the room was mostly like white women.
Speaker 1: It was all white women at this point except for Michael, right, Yeah, and.
Speaker 2: So that is a reflection of their experiences. And I
Speaker 2: think it would have felt a little false for them
Speaker 2: to say, well, let's let's put a black character in
Speaker 2: here because we think it's the right thing to do.
Speaker 2: I'd rather you do it because it feels organic and
Speaker 2: it feels honest. Well, then question about.
Speaker 1: This episode, because it do feel like at some point
Speaker 1: people pointed it out and we felt uncomfortable about it,
Speaker 1: I guess, right, or like is this their world or
Speaker 1: should it be there? What should we do?
Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? A lot of I mean, look,
Speaker 2: I think there are a lot of people that hang
Speaker 2: out with people that look like them for sure. That's
Speaker 2: just sort of what it is.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: And especially when you look at our society now, people
Speaker 2: are in echo chambers. They only talk to people that
Speaker 2: they agree with.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: And so I think what Sex and the City represents
Speaker 2: are four women that, in my opinion, happened to be white.
Speaker 2: And what's interesting to me about it being Samantha who's
Speaker 2: dating a black guy. And I can't speak for all
Speaker 2: black women. I can speak for myself and that I
Speaker 2: look at Samantha as someone who is a woman of
Speaker 2: the world and who is very free and very open minded,
Speaker 2: and so her dating a black guy doesn't feel out
Speaker 2: of the ordinary. In my opinion, I agree.
Speaker 1: That's why it's weird that it seems like she never
Speaker 1: has based on our reaction, I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys are like, huh yeah. And it's interesting
Speaker 2: because he's also a man of means influence. He's very handsome,
Speaker 2: and that to me, they're very equally yoked.
Speaker 1: I thought they were fantastic.
Speaker 2: And I think the character, you know, his sister, well,
Speaker 2: I thought the actress plays her is really great. In
Speaker 2: the episode, I get the sort of cringy element of
Speaker 2: them fighting, but you know, look, Samantha says something pretty
Speaker 2: tough to her, so I'm kind of not mad at her.
Speaker 2: Like having a knee jerk reaction. People like we've witnessed
Speaker 2: someone have a knee jerk reaction at a very popular
Speaker 2: award show because of something that kind of startled them.
Speaker 2: So we have these moments where you kind of, you know,
Speaker 2: for lack of a better term, blackout, you know, and
Speaker 2: you kind of do something that you kind of regret.
Speaker 2: So I don't look at it as she was an
Speaker 2: angry black woman. I looked at it as a woman
Speaker 2: who was feeling very attacked and Samantha touched her first. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't a violence thing, but look, if you
Speaker 2: put your hands, even if it's a finger.
Speaker 1: On meet, I agree, you.
Speaker 2: Know, you know. But here's the thing. I think there
Speaker 2: is an authenticity to what's happening, and that not every
Speaker 2: black woman who has a black brother would have a
Speaker 2: problem with him dating a white woman. But I think
Speaker 2: if you there are probably some black women who would say,
Speaker 2: would I prefer him not be with a white woman? Yes,
Speaker 2: of course, But I think where I sit and again,
Speaker 2: this is Lena Waite's opinion. I think love is so
Speaker 2: hard to figure out and come by. I don't care
Speaker 2: what race, nationality, religion a person is. If they accept
Speaker 2: you for who you are, you accept them for who
Speaker 2: they are, and you both are willing to invest in
Speaker 2: your own spiritual growth and each other's. I'm all for it.
Speaker 2: I agree now that that is you know, that's my opinion,
Speaker 2: but I also have to respect if someone says because
Speaker 2: it's it's a thing we took on on the shot
Speaker 2: we tackled. We're like that was a Season seven, you know,
Speaker 2: where a black man was dating a white woman, and
Speaker 2: it is literally a conversation where Felicia Rashad is at
Speaker 2: the table and saying, this goes all the way back
Speaker 2: to Emmitt till there's a history that is steeped in it.
Speaker 2: And the thing about our past is that it still
Speaker 2: haunts us. And that's why, you know, there's a reason
Speaker 2: why there's a million O. J. Simpson documentaries, you know,
Speaker 2: and and the retelling of it, yes, re examining, re examiner,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. And so it is a
Speaker 2: conversation that will continue.
Speaker 1: Absolutely well, it's so worked out.
Speaker 2: No one, Yes, we have not figured it out. This
Speaker 2: is not a wound that is healed. No. So when
Speaker 2: you look at this episode, it is it is a
Speaker 2: valid one, Okay, And I think it's it's it's it's fair,
Speaker 2: it's fair game. And so this is something that that
Speaker 2: comes up in a racial dating is a thing. I
Speaker 2: have many friends who are the products of inter racial love.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, we.
Speaker 2: All do you know, and so yes, look if people want.
Speaker 1: To be upset, but how do we handle it?
Speaker 2: Though? That's my did you handle how did this show handled? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like I didn't feel like like when I I kind
Speaker 1: of vaguely remember it, and then of course I rewatched
Speaker 1: it and I was like, oh, like, I think also
Speaker 1: because we're trying to do for storylines, as you know,
Speaker 1: we've talked about the structure, you know, the structure is
Speaker 1: always a challenge. And the big the sorry, the big
Speaker 1: big storyline exactly is Aiden and Aiden's new It's very exciting.
Speaker 1: He wants her not to smoke. This is so fascinating
Speaker 1: when you think about their long, long history, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: already wants her not to be doing something she's doing right,
Speaker 1: whether Smokey's good or not. Easton pointed out, he already
Speaker 1: is trying to control her, which is interesting. We either yes,
Speaker 1: both both, let's say listen, but it's interesting, right, So
Speaker 1: that's the main storyline, and so Samantha's is this well,
Speaker 1: I don't even know, and then there's yes, it would
Speaker 1: probably be yeah, And I think I'm the bad kischer
Speaker 1: who's also very bizarre. Weble talking about that, very different
Speaker 1: on the page than what Nicole Hallafson or the director
Speaker 1: had happened, Like the dialogue doesn't match. But that's okay.
Speaker 1: If it were on now, people would be online talking about,
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't do what she said, you know,
Speaker 1: because he's licking my face. But then I have a big,
Speaker 1: big wound on my chin and attacked, but he's just
Speaker 1: licking it.
Speaker 2: Like he was. Okay.
Speaker 1: I mean I know what it was like how I
Speaker 1: remember it feeling or whatever, and it was just like
Speaker 1: a lot. It was wet. It was very wet. There's
Speaker 1: so much wet it's bad. But it wasn't like I
Speaker 1: would have a wound, right, And I'll get to that
Speaker 1: in a second. I know why Michael Patrick did that,
Speaker 1: because he's so bad and some to put things in
Speaker 1: from life but we'll get to this. I think when
Speaker 1: I look back on it, one of the things that
Speaker 1: I think is glaring, Like Samantha says to us at lunch,
Speaker 1: I don't see color. I see conquest, which is like
Speaker 1: a very Samantha's statement, but also like that's a problem
Speaker 1: if you don't see color, because you do see color
Speaker 1: because everything else, you say, she talks about his big
Speaker 1: black cock. You know, she talked, you know, we talked
Speaker 1: about him wearing jewelry, but like Aiden's wearing more jewelry
Speaker 1: than chivone. Do you know what I mean? Is it interesting?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, is there just because you asked the question,
Speaker 2: how did you guys handle it? Yeah? And I think
Speaker 2: that's a very it's sort of an interesting question because
Speaker 2: it's like it really depends on what you mean by handle.
Speaker 2: And I think with you know, television series, because somebody
Speaker 2: could ask us, like, how do we think we handled
Speaker 2: my characters coming out on a Master of None. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we did not necessarily handle it. What we did was
Speaker 2: we are broached it in a way that made sense
Speaker 2: for us as artists at that time. And so I
Speaker 2: think we kind of get caught up in these ideas
Speaker 2: of what is the right way to handle something? Okay,
Speaker 2: what is the wrong way to handle something? And I
Speaker 2: just don't believe in either of those things.
Speaker 1: Okay, But let me ask you this, So when if
Speaker 1: you bring up your own storyline, like you lived that
Speaker 1: storyline and you were there writing and acting, right, so
Speaker 1: you had your own authority about the experience. And I
Speaker 1: think that's you know, gold, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And obviously it was and the worthy of it. But
Speaker 1: in our case, what I kind of mean and I
Speaker 1: maybe didn't say it well. I wish if we were
Speaker 1: going to do this that they had gone more in depth.
Speaker 1: Possibly what the actress who played the sister were saying
Speaker 1: was that when they are in the bar, in the
Speaker 1: scene where they get in the fight, that Samantha says
Speaker 1: something to her like why can't you just you know,
Speaker 1: get to know me or let me whatever, let me
Speaker 1: go down the road and see what you think or something,
Speaker 1: and she said, it's a black thing. The sister says,
Speaker 1: it's a black thing, and she was saying something like
Speaker 1: she thought that was like simple and pat, I guess,
Speaker 1: you know, rather than possibly exploring it more, The.
Speaker 2: Truth is, you only have so much real estate on
Speaker 2: the page. And also I think first of all, like
Speaker 2: it's a black thing is was something that was a
Speaker 2: bit of a popular saying for a short beat amongst
Speaker 2: within the black community. And like I remember when I
Speaker 2: was young, I would hear like people say it within
Speaker 2: the black folks to say it, but the way it
Speaker 2: was kind of as a short cut as saying it'll
Speaker 2: I can never make you understand, got it? You know,
Speaker 2: like you will never understand that. Okay, Okay, that's interesting
Speaker 2: And I think you know you don't because also they're
Speaker 2: in the middle of this club, you don't. She doesn't
Speaker 2: want to go down into the history of our you know, nation,
Speaker 2: But she really is sort of telling Samantha like, you
Speaker 2: don't you'll never get in, you know. And and in essence,
Speaker 2: because what I know as a television writer, both characters
Speaker 2: have to be right, and in essence they are because
Speaker 2: Samantha is saying, well, okay, yeah, I'm not black, but like,
Speaker 2: you don't know me. You haven't gotten a chance to
Speaker 2: spend time. And the interesting thing is, as a person
Speaker 2: who really likes the Samantha character, I wouldn't mind hanging
Speaker 2: out with her and getting to know her and vibing
Speaker 2: with her. She's the fun friend. She's the one that's
Speaker 2: not gonna judge you. You're gonna go, You're gonna get
Speaker 2: into some exclusive place. You know, She's a vibe and
Speaker 2: so what what breaks my heart the most about the
Speaker 2: episode is that we don't get to explore Samantha dating
Speaker 2: this black guy.
Speaker 1: I agree also because they are so good together.
Speaker 2: That's what always breks. But that's it's always broken my
Speaker 2: heart about the episode. Interest is not about how it
Speaker 2: was that's a handle per se, but rather like, it
Speaker 2: would have been cool if we could have that actress,
Speaker 2: could have had maybe a three episode art because that's
Speaker 2: how long the relationships last of the city. But and
Speaker 2: then had them break up over something that had nothing
Speaker 2: to do with race.
Speaker 1: That would have been so good.
Speaker 2: But now, look, I think for whatever reason, they didn't
Speaker 2: want to go down their road. And that's fair because
Speaker 2: there wasn't a black writer in the writer's room and
Speaker 2: it does get tricky where if you have black actors
Speaker 2: speaking and there's no black person around, then my for me,
Speaker 2: I'd rather like then don't even deal with race at all, Like,
Speaker 2: don't let that be a part of it. If you
Speaker 2: guys are too scared to like kind of go down
Speaker 2: that road, just let it be, you know whatever, you know.
Speaker 2: And but but because I think they didn't want to
Speaker 2: ignore the glaring fact that this is a black woman,
Speaker 2: that she's got this restaurant, she's talking about Okra and whatnot.
Speaker 2: You got the brother, he's got the Jennifer Lopez party.
Speaker 2: So they're very much sort of culturally you know, intelligent,
Speaker 2: and they know what's going on. They're not unaware of
Speaker 2: who they are, where they come from. I just think
Speaker 2: it's important. I like the episode. I think, yeah, of
Speaker 2: course it maybe you could go back and tweak or
Speaker 2: adjust things, but I just feel like it's a time capsule.
Speaker 2: All entertainment as a time capsule. I don't want to
Speaker 2: go back and say, well, let's fix this for our comfort.
Speaker 1: No, of course, and I mean we can't. So it
Speaker 1: doesn't even matter if we want to.
Speaker 2: And it's reflective. It's reflected. You get to go back
Speaker 2: and reflect and say yeah, okay, because I'm telling you
Speaker 2: it could have been a lot worse. It could have
Speaker 2: been a situation where you look at it and go, okay,
Speaker 2: well we got to talk about this and we talk
Speaker 2: about that. I really do you want to see women fighting, like, no,
Speaker 2: but most reality shows that most people watch involve grown women,
Speaker 2: professional women, well dressed women. Yeah, physically fighting each other.
Speaker 2: It's just so weird, throwing tables, throwing like, you know,
Speaker 2: like drinks, and so that I can't be offended by
Speaker 2: that episode and acts as if that women kind of
Speaker 2: going back and forth at each other isn't something that
Speaker 2: is pushed by some powers that be that are not us.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's a good point. I hadn't
Speaker 1: thought about it in that way. I did think about
Speaker 1: the year two thousand a little bit, and that was
Speaker 1: like the Survivor had started was really vague. You know,
Speaker 1: Friends is obviously big er is you know, it's pretty
Speaker 1: much white network television. Sure, and then we're over there
Speaker 1: on HBO. But I think that is one of the
Speaker 1: frustrations that people would express to us at the time
Speaker 1: was you guys are on HBO and you can do
Speaker 1: whatever you want, So why is it so you know white? Basically,
Speaker 1: people would say.
Speaker 2: But here's the deal. Our entertainment, our media is a
Speaker 2: reflection of our society, and we live in what I
Speaker 2: like to call a white leaning society. We live in
Speaker 2: a white leaning society. I'll use the as an example.
Speaker 2: How many women have won Best Lead Actress in a
Speaker 2: Motion Picture. Her name is Halle Berry. How long have
Speaker 2: the oscars been around? Again, we live in a very
Speaker 2: white leaning society, and that's sort of what it is,
Speaker 2: you know, And so I think in two thousand, it's like,
Speaker 2: that's a reality of what TV was. And at the
Speaker 2: same time, I, a young black queer woman in Chicago,
Speaker 2: was watching the show and really felt It's interesting because
Speaker 2: I don't know if the word is to say I
Speaker 2: felt seen. That's not necessarily right, but I felt the
Speaker 2: show's humanity. I felt because I was still living with
Speaker 2: my mom. I was like, I wasn't out in the world.
Speaker 2: But what I was seeing, what you guys are such
Speaker 2: a beautiful job of was saying, your friendships are what
Speaker 2: will determine what your relationships ultimately look like. So good, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And that was always the point.
Speaker 1: Definitely.
Speaker 2: It's like these men are like they gonna come and go,
Speaker 2: and sometimes women will come and go. It is the
Speaker 2: friendship that sticks, and that is actually a reflection of
Speaker 2: how I still live my life. And it's not about
Speaker 2: putting friendships before my relationships. Because I do understand that
Speaker 2: as well, and that with the characters. When your character
Speaker 2: gets married, they aren't afraid to show us what happens.
Speaker 2: There is a there's an empty chair now, right, and
Speaker 2: they're like, moment for a moment, for a moment, you
Speaker 2: come back, but there, but you're the first of the
Speaker 2: four to transition. And and they also show us what
Speaker 2: happens when one of your friends has a baby right now?
Speaker 2: She got the baby at the damn table, right, And
Speaker 2: you guys are like, what is on? Like what are
Speaker 2: we come on? And she's frustrated, yes and inconvenience yes
Speaker 2: for her yes, And you guys are like, girl, Sam,
Speaker 2: you gotta bro like she got a kid, now, relaxed?
Speaker 2: Right were you at the table? What are you only
Speaker 2: talking about your husband?
Speaker 1: What's going on?
Speaker 2: And it's like, oh my god. Yes, but it's practice.
Speaker 1: It's true, and it's also it's intimacy. It's chosen family, yes,
Speaker 1: and that it is put and what Michael Patrick did
Speaker 1: say at one point too, which I think is also
Speaker 1: like even maybe one layer underneath, it's all about your
Speaker 1: relationship to yourself, you know, and what figuring out who
Speaker 1: you are and what you really want what's true to you, right,
Speaker 1: which I think we've always tried to do, you know,
Speaker 1: in the whole history of all of it. Like someone
Speaker 1: came on the other day and they were saying how
Speaker 1: unhappy they were that Carrie ends and just like that single,
Speaker 1: And I said, well, that's really funny because when we
Speaker 1: ended se in the city and she was not single,
Speaker 1: people were outraged, you know, yeah, just saying people were outraged.
Speaker 1: Some people were outraged. Everyone's going to project their own
Speaker 1: right exactly.
Speaker 2: Right, right, I mean, but and I did. I read
Speaker 2: an article about that, about her, you know, winding up
Speaker 2: on her own. But I also think it's it's a
Speaker 2: statement of the times.
Speaker 1: I do too. Yes, it's the whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's very it's very topical.
Speaker 1: Did you see this woman wrote this article about being
Speaker 1: embarrassed to have a boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's so good and.
Speaker 1: So you know, on social media it used to there
Speaker 1: was like a whole relationship revealed thing and like so wonderful.
Speaker 1: Still still for sure, but I mean now there's another
Speaker 1: kind of almost like counterprogramming to that going. You know what,
Speaker 1: I am my own woman, I make my own money,
Speaker 1: and I go on trips by myself.
Speaker 2: Well, hello, Tracy Elis Ross. I told her, I said,
Speaker 2: I told Tracy, I said, you are a brand of women.
Speaker 2: Am I divorced? No, I'm Tracy Elis Ross totally.
Speaker 1: And that is the future of like resorts apparently single
Speaker 1: women wellness.
Speaker 2: Well, Tracy has a whole show about it, travel and
Speaker 2: obviously compare that with like Carrie's character, you know, being
Speaker 2: on her own. But I think a big part of
Speaker 2: that is and I know there's a lot of women,
Speaker 2: I want to say, of a certain age. I don't
Speaker 2: know what that age can be. It can be any age.
Speaker 2: But there are a lot of women who are like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'd rather do this solo. And and
Speaker 2: some of that may have to do with who are
Speaker 2: their options? What what, what's what's coming? You know, are
Speaker 2: some women saying, let me maybe entertain the idea of
Speaker 2: dating a woman or someone who's non binary. But also, again,
Speaker 2: we live in a patriarchal society.
Speaker 1: Right, and we're still like men are the top of
Speaker 1: the pyramid. Yeah, but we're and it's interesting that we're
Speaker 1: like trying to figure out like how how to like
Speaker 1: we're going around in a circuit about how to deal
Speaker 1: with that do you feel.
Speaker 2: Well, you mean in terms of the patriarchal elements.
Speaker 1: I'm a single woman right now. I've got a lot
Speaker 1: of money, thank god. You know, it worked hard. Kids
Speaker 1: don't really need a man, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: People are so confused by it.
Speaker 2: Well, here's I mean. I think to me, it's it's
Speaker 2: interesting because I was also seeing I didn't get to
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to watch. I saw the click,
Speaker 2: the thumbnail and the thing, but I haven't watched the
Speaker 2: video yet, but it was saying are women getting the
Speaker 2: men they deserve? And right, so I saved it. I
Speaker 2: will watch that later because I'm curious what that it's
Speaker 2: a podcast up, I'm like, cure what that conversation is like.
Speaker 2: But the truth is, and not even say person too.
Speaker 2: I don't want to make it so binary, but but
Speaker 2: the truth is, it's a matter of do you want
Speaker 2: to be on your own team or do you want
Speaker 2: to be in a scenario where you're you're on the
Speaker 2: team with someone else, And that is those are two
Speaker 2: very different lifestyles for sure, for sure, and they both
Speaker 2: come with their pros and cons.
Speaker 1: Right when I look back on the show, there's so
Speaker 1: many things like with Steve. Steve in this particular.
Speaker 2: Really good episode for Steve, it's so good, he's so good.
Speaker 1: He's great, isn't he so great? And I really really
Speaker 1: didn't understand at the time how great he was.
Speaker 2: I think I've always liked Steve. He's always he's blue
Speaker 2: collar guy, so solid.
Speaker 1: Real grounded and solid and like like such a big heart,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, huge heart. And Samantha's sorry, Miranda's so
Speaker 1: closed that it's the perfect combination. But then also we
Speaker 1: know what happens, and you can also kind of understand
Speaker 1: what happens, right because he's just like this kind of puppy.
Speaker 2: Big huge hearts and she's like no, no, But again
Speaker 2: that what I love is that that relationship brought out
Speaker 2: so much in both of them. Yeah, you know he opposite. Yes,
Speaker 2: he helped him grow up and he helped her relax.
Speaker 1: Because he is like a child. I mean, he's like
Speaker 1: a child when he's like come to the playground.
Speaker 2: Well, here's the deal, Like, how do we define child?
Speaker 1: Good point? Good point? Good point? But like I felt
Speaker 1: like she was the mommy in that conversation right where
Speaker 1: she's like, well, you're probably not.
Speaker 2: Gonna win, but but here's the and by the way,
Speaker 2: like that's I love that you need to have everybody's
Speaker 2: perspective and also both sizing to be right. And so
Speaker 2: she's probably right, but so was.
Speaker 1: He totally totally I mean, I mean, and that's the
Speaker 1: point I think, really well well done. Where she goes
Speaker 1: and they have that famous scene in front of Magnolia
Speaker 1: Bakery with the cupcakes, and she's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: just seems really stupid.
Speaker 2: She was the worst silly. Yeah, and of course Carrie's
Speaker 2: wasn't that what couples are supposed to do each other? Silly?
Speaker 2: Dream true? True? And will at least be supportive, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and the other person, yes, they won exactly silly.
Speaker 2: But what it is is it forces her to grow
Speaker 2: because I love that, Yes she's a she's at her
Speaker 2: you know, her desk, and she's working. And it goes
Speaker 2: back to what I was saying, when you're in a
Speaker 2: relationship with someone, If she wasn't with him, she would
Speaker 2: not have gone outside and gotten some fresh air. She
Speaker 2: had just been in the apartment, you know.
Speaker 1: And she also wouldn't think about what are what.
Speaker 2: It was, dreams, what's possible? It's okay to believe in
Speaker 2: something that seems like it would never happen, right, totally. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So I just think like that to me, is is
Speaker 2: so beautiful and special, and I think it sends a
Speaker 2: really nice message to me too.
Speaker 1: I was really happy I didn't remember any of that storyline,
Speaker 1: I think because I'm not. We're not. We're now all
Speaker 1: a bit siloed storylines, and I just remember I remember
Speaker 1: them having so much stuff and thinking it was good
Speaker 1: at the time because it was such a deep arc.
Speaker 1: I'm always all for that, and we really made use
Speaker 1: of that on the show in a beautiful way of the writers.
Speaker 1: And I love that as a viewer, you know as well,
Speaker 1: like really getting time to.
Speaker 2: See oh yeah, that's all we love Steve and eight
Speaker 2: so obviously eight and being introduced, and later we'll see
Speaker 2: how Aiden and Steve come together and those guys because
Speaker 2: they're very much, you know, kind of kept from the
Speaker 2: same clock. They opened the bar together and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, I forget all these things. It's
Speaker 1: really fun to rewatch.
Speaker 2: I have never rewatched, you understand, most of us we
Speaker 2: like just go back and like have it on. It's
Speaker 2: just like the office, It's like anything else. We are.
Speaker 2: It's this encyclopedia, it's a library, and the fact that
Speaker 2: there's like three chapters of it. It is the show
Speaker 2: the movies, the movie era, which was like huge. Okay,
Speaker 2: I remember the midnight showing at that you know, the Grove.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, grow for the midnight screen at the first
Speaker 2: such a City movie.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy not knowing what to do it exactly, but.
Speaker 2: Not knowing what to expect. I think in terms of society.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when people go people not people the industry.
Speaker 1: This is what the industry was saying. We were not
Speaker 1: supposed to do well, I know, because they can't ever
Speaker 1: learn that lesson that women want to go to the
Speaker 1: movies and gay men and game.
Speaker 2: Absolutely it was, but it was a really I'll never
Speaker 2: forget that experience going to see that movie and seeing
Speaker 2: seeing the cultural impact amazing because you're like, yeah, who
Speaker 2: is gonna you know? And I wouldn't have minded if
Speaker 2: it wasn't like it's like sex and City fanatics so whatever.
Speaker 2: But it was. It was almost as if everybody that
Speaker 2: was at home, like because you are silo your home
Speaker 2: watching it yourself and talk about it with your friends
Speaker 2: when you have a watch party, depending and I think
Speaker 2: when the movies happened, it was like a freaking Star
Speaker 2: Wars convention. It was like we all were like insane
Speaker 2: in the same place, watching the same thing, and it
Speaker 2: was really cool. It's cool to be around your people.
Speaker 2: And it felt like, you know.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's what going to the movies why we can
Speaker 1: never lose it.
Speaker 2: No, you can't, because it's too it's too special.
Speaker 1: It's it's too magical experience dark.
Speaker 2: And y'all gave us, you know, some big movie that
Speaker 2: I know that the word is like you know one,
Speaker 2: but like just some really big movie moments. I mean
Speaker 2: talk about set pieces and like because you do wonder
Speaker 2: what are we gonna do? Like what's it going to be?
Speaker 2: It's like Michael patuc was like, you'll see, don't worry
Speaker 2: and then but obviously then the third chapter and final
Speaker 2: is you know, and just like that, which is to
Speaker 2: have those three eras is pretty it is pretty conic.
Speaker 1: I agree, it is. It's beyond it's beyond anything that
Speaker 1: I can even really sometimes get my own mind around it.
Speaker 1: And I have lived through it. But I also don't
Speaker 1: feel like it's done. I don't don't look at I
Speaker 1: don't I don't look at in my thut, I don't do,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Michael's on his own page.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Sarah's on her own page, of course,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel I did feel complete after, you know,
Speaker 1: and just like that or the second movie, we thought
Speaker 1: we were going to do the third.
Speaker 2: Right, and then it kind of turned into and just
Speaker 2: like that, I think time.
Speaker 1: But during that time, I'd see Michael and I'd see
Speaker 1: the girls obviously discussed like what should we do? Should
Speaker 1: we do something?
Speaker 2: You know, I know it's.
Speaker 1: Always exactly and there was always that chance, which was
Speaker 1: exciting and nice. So we still had each other in
Speaker 1: our lives, which is also amazing.
Speaker 2: That's rightful, Yeah, it's the best part.
Speaker 1: But then and now that's true now, and so that
Speaker 1: we did it just like that, and I really thought
Speaker 1: we'd keep going because that's me, right, It's just.
Speaker 2: Me, always, eternal optimus, and you keep going forever.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, why wouldn't we you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, it's it's a look. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're we're gonna write We're season eight for the Shop.
Speaker 2: I was gonna, you know, it's our final season but
Speaker 2: I think it really was. I definitely was thinking about
Speaker 2: those final interviews that you guys did with for Sex
Speaker 2: and the City the first time around after the sixth yes,
Speaker 2: and I just remember, you know, surgical Parker saying like,
Speaker 2: you want to leave while the party's cresting, you want
Speaker 2: to I was like, what do you say? What are
Speaker 2: you saying?
Speaker 1: Sometimes that I was like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: We don't want to know.
Speaker 2: But here's the deal, here's the deal. It was. It
Speaker 2: was hard. It was tough because you think, like, oh damn,
Speaker 2: six seasons, come on, but it felt right. It did.
Speaker 2: It felt it felt because otherwise you don't want to
Speaker 2: go out with the whimper. No, that's true, and you
Speaker 2: want people to gather, and that's true. People get true,
Speaker 2: people get me.
Speaker 1: I think at the time that the show, you know,
Speaker 1: Sarah had her baby and Cynthia had her baby, So
Speaker 1: for me, I was living life with them watching that,
Speaker 1: and that is a huge chapter in life right then.
Speaker 1: I also really did believe that the time that we
Speaker 1: ended the first show that we would make a movie,
Speaker 1: and that was super exciting.
Speaker 2: Right. How much time was that though between it ended,
Speaker 2: It was more time.
Speaker 1: Than it was supposed to be because they had a
Speaker 1: hold on us in our contracts. Oh yes, which was
Speaker 1: part of the negotiation for the final season. You know
Speaker 1: how they like to put everything in together. They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you would like more money, we would like this X
Speaker 1: Y and Z, right, yeah, And I was like, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I will give you X Y and Z. I ah
Speaker 1: put me on hold to make a movie. Please tell you.
Speaker 1: I'm like, that is no problem.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. So you guys had that.
Speaker 1: That was then it expired.
Speaker 2: Oh yes.
Speaker 1: I had to call brecked On and we talked about
Speaker 1: it a little bit. And because he was in charge
Speaker 1: of HBO at the time, Wow, and he had the
Speaker 1: foresight to think of a film.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: But then and so he commissioned the script for Michael Patrick.
Speaker 1: And Michael Patrick was writing the script, which we knew about, right,
Speaker 1: and so we had a hold in our contract. It
Speaker 1: was I want to say, a year or a year and
Speaker 1: a half, not that long for us to start production, right.
Speaker 1: And I remember Michael calling and telling me the ideas,
Speaker 1: not seeing a script, but hearing the ideas. I was, yeah,
Speaker 1: to Michael, anything you want me to do, I will do.
Speaker 1: I was very, very excited and I thought this would
Speaker 1: just be amazing, even if it was just a small
Speaker 1: culty kind of a movie. You know what I'm trying
Speaker 1: to say, right, Like we didn't know, you know, we
Speaker 1: didn't know, right, But the problem was HBO didn't know
Speaker 1: who was going to finance and or distribute it, right,
Speaker 1: because we were all in Time warn but HBO we
Speaker 1: don't release movies. It ended up being Time a new
Speaker 1: line under Warner Brothers, right, And but that was eventually
Speaker 1: so the first time around when Chris had commissioned the script
Speaker 1: from Michael Patrick, the it the hold expired, got it
Speaker 1: and I was devastated because you want to do thee
Speaker 1: God yes, But then you know, Michael Patrick's not going
Speaker 1: to give up once he's got a creative idea, I know, right.
Speaker 1: So he had a creative idea and he was like,
Speaker 1: we're going to figure it out. But it was hard
Speaker 1: because it had never been done right where you've got
Speaker 1: an ip that has been over here exactly and you're
Speaker 1: wanting to put it over here. So it took Toby
Speaker 1: Emerick saying stepping up to the plate when he did,
Speaker 1: and what Chris said was the turning point was Devil
Speaker 1: ware's part of one did so well. That was one
Speaker 1: of our directors, David Frankel exactly. And Chris was like,
Speaker 1: that's our movie. Why didn't we make our movie?
Speaker 2: We're so stupid out before?
Speaker 1: Isn't that bizarre? It's not how I remember it, but
Speaker 1: that's what Chris told me. And I looked it up
Speaker 1: and I think it's accurate.
Speaker 2: Oh well, yeah, I believe that. Wow.
Speaker 1: Interesting, right, So he was like, why didn't we go ahead?
Speaker 2: We should go I think I think, well, I think
Speaker 2: everything happens exactly the way it's supposed to. But I
Speaker 2: think that amount of time and again I can't put
Speaker 2: my finger on how much time it was from when
Speaker 2: the last episode aired.
Speaker 1: Two thousand and four to two thousand and eight. That's
Speaker 1: four years.
Speaker 2: That to me is such a beautiful amount of time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not too long, not too short.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it really kind of gave people time
Speaker 2: to kind of miss you guys, and you know, and
Speaker 2: obviously and it made sense in terms of where you
Speaker 2: guys left off that Oh yeah, they would be maybe
Speaker 2: thinking about getting married at this point, and this is
Speaker 2: where Samantha would be and this is where Miranda would be.
Speaker 2: It just and also what school is just going to
Speaker 2: get a sense of where are they now? Where's everybody?
Speaker 2: Get the quick like catch up and check it in
Speaker 2: all these and then it's like, you know, for the
Speaker 2: fandom that is the show, everybody sitting in that theater
Speaker 2: is like, oh okay, oh oh you just because you
Speaker 2: have all these ideas of what happened to them once
Speaker 2: you left them. Yeah, that that personally is like just
Speaker 2: like and then of course, of course, because it did
Speaker 2: so well, you're gonna have a sequel.
Speaker 1: Sure, we were supposed to have three. That was the plan.
Speaker 2: The fact that you guys are going to do three
Speaker 2: movies is insane to me.
Speaker 1: I know it is insane, but.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I would have hung up after the first one.
Speaker 2: After the first movie, I'd be like, that is a wonderful.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants up when you do well the first time.
Speaker 2: But guess what it Yeah. I love that there was
Speaker 2: never a sequel to Bridesmaids.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a good point.
Speaker 2: That's good. And I know that Kristen Wigg and her
Speaker 2: amazing writing partner probably were offered something and I'm sure
Speaker 2: there's a story behind it. I'm sure, But I and
Speaker 2: I think that movie made it on the top one
Speaker 2: hundred movies of the some century. The New York Times
Speaker 2: did whatever, which was cool. And I said to myself,
Speaker 2: and I think the reason why is because they let
Speaker 2: that movie stand. They were like, we're not going back smart.
Speaker 2: It did what it needed to do. That's it. And
Speaker 2: and I'll say, I mean, look, I'm happy that there
Speaker 2: was another movie. We all were, but that's that first
Speaker 2: Sexto the City movie. It can stand on its own
Speaker 2: even if you never seen the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful right now.
Speaker 2: You can't watch that movie and just say wow.
Speaker 1: I agree.
Speaker 2: That is I agree, and you guys give us a feast.
Speaker 1: I know, I agree. I agree. Michael Patrick did a
Speaker 1: great job with the first one and the second one
Speaker 1: too in a different way. But like, I understand what
Speaker 1: you're saying, but it's really hard.
Speaker 2: I get it. No, no, y'all. It was nuts. It
Speaker 2: was like it was it was everywhere. It was crazy.
Speaker 2: So I get it crazy.
Speaker 1: And it's crazy because we were such a I say this,
Speaker 1: people don't believe me, but we were like the little
Speaker 1: train that could, you know.
Speaker 2: The word, yeah, little engine that could, the little.
Speaker 1: Engine that could. Thank you so much, you're a good writer.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: We weren't supposed to ever be successful, you know, but
Speaker 1: we just had like like we were so committed, like
Speaker 1: like we are going to tell these stories.
Speaker 2: But my question is why did people think it wouldn't
Speaker 2: Why did you think that you.
Speaker 1: Were because there was nothing like it.
Speaker 2: There was no is a reason to be success.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, but there was no like you know how the
Speaker 1: process is, Yes, there's no precedent and how they like
Speaker 1: to say like the four quadrant.
Speaker 2: The well, the question becomes waiting to exhale come out
Speaker 2: before the show, because that's kind came up with myself
Speaker 2: on the Red Divine on Legacy Talk.
Speaker 1: Good point where.
Speaker 2: Because I know Girlfriends was like right after you got
Speaker 2: and so there were there were these black women quads,
Speaker 2: you know that sort of.
Speaker 1: I think waiting for exhale.
Speaker 2: Yeah, waiting to extail what year to come?
Speaker 1: I feel like ninety five right before us, right yeah,
Speaker 1: and that was a huge hit. Good point, good point.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I got to give credit to the Red Divine, Yes,
Speaker 2: the great Red Divine. She was like she says it,
Speaker 2: she's a I literally have to talk like what's the
Speaker 2: one with the white girls running around New York City.
Speaker 2: I said sex and Decisions. She's like, yeah, that came Afterway, and.
Speaker 1: I remember that was a big like every huge, huge, you.
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying. And so I think I think
Speaker 2: that again it goes back to a patriarchal society where
Speaker 2: that women we are, there's no argument about it, are
Speaker 2: seeing as second class citizens in our own nation, our world,
Speaker 2: all over the world. And so the idea for women
Speaker 2: talking about their sexuality, being friends, dating, having real autonomy
Speaker 2: feels like, well, is that going to be Mary telling
Speaker 2: Moore show. They literally had to save it. They were
Speaker 2: putting it on Saturdays and going like, nobody's going to
Speaker 2: stay home and and it's and again, a lot of
Speaker 2: it is there's so much doubt when it comes to us,
Speaker 2: so much, and so we it's so interesting because when
Speaker 2: you say the lunch come like what, why would anyone
Speaker 2: think that makes so much sense? And you know, and
Speaker 2: look again, because we live in a white leaning world. Yes,
Speaker 2: it's it's white women that get that that push, you know.
Speaker 2: But I am grateful for some movies like Set It
Speaker 2: Off and Girls Trip, like The Quads content, the Quads content.
Speaker 1: Thank god, thank god.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you did a trio you know, fantastic. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like that, thank you so much. I mean, any
Speaker 2: version ladies talking, there's always vibe, absolutely enjoy talking about
Speaker 2: their emotions, about dating, all that kind of stuff, and
Speaker 2: so yeah, I think Sex and City made it very popular,
Speaker 2: but I totally get like there was some sort of
Speaker 2: backlash because it's showing women having a voice, not necessarily
Speaker 2: needing a man to approve them, but rather than building
Speaker 2: their own bond and finding their own self love. So
Speaker 2: of course there's going to be a threat to society
Speaker 2: that sees women as as people that need to be
Speaker 2: dependent on men.
Speaker 1: All right, everyone, thanks for joining Lena Waite. Then we
Speaker 1: are going to continue, so please join us later in
Speaker 1: the week for part two with Lena Waite. Wonderful as
Speaker 1: always