1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to It could happen here the podcast we already 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: recorded and I messed up UM or something happened with 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 1: the zoom and we lost the audio. So now we're 4 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: recording it again as is, as is the cycle of life. UM. 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,279 Speaker 1: Thankfully I can. I'm now on my tenth shot of 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 1: Espresso of the day and it is eight pm, so 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm ready, I'm I'm ready this time. Today, we're 8 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: gonna be doing another one of our chronicles into open 9 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: source and O SENT style research or open source verification 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 1: and this kind of side of of generally, you know, 11 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: this is kind of a field of like anti fascist 12 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: research UM and journalism. So we're looking at one of 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: these case studies UM. But today I have someone with me, 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: Alistair from Opossum Press is here to talk about SENT 15 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: and UH and this type of research. Hello, Hey, thank 16 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: you for being with me again on this on this call, 17 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: on the very experience for us. I would actually first 18 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: like to talk about how Opossum Press got started as 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: like a collective of of people dedicated towards this goal 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: of you know, surveying the fascist creep. UM. I had 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: an interest in UM and journalism. I have no experience 22 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,199 Speaker 1: in it. But I have other friends that are into 23 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: writing and stuff, and I just kind of reached out 24 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: to friends and like, Hey, would anybody be interested in 25 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: doing this? And um, there are several friends that were like, hell, yeah, 26 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: let's do this. And that's pretty much it. After we 27 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: got it all formed. Um, we set up some open 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: source intel like workshops and we've about every other week 29 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: we get together for two or three hours and learned 30 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 1: stuff that sounds that sounds lovely actually, Um, most of 31 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 1: my stuff is usually done alone in my computer dark 32 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: when I'm on my again tenth cup of coffee of 33 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the day. Doing O sent in a group of people 34 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: like that sounds like it could be actually kind of fun. 35 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're gonna In our last episode, we talked 36 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: about how I tracked down and found out who written 37 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 1: House was the night of of that happening in Kenosha. Um, 38 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: and today we're gonna be talking about someone related to 39 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: January six, um, the infamous zip tie guy, as he 40 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: became known for like two days on the internet before 41 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: he got his actual day. Um. First, I I guess 42 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: I probably I probably In case you haven't listened to 43 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: the previous episode, I did on written house, so probably 44 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: kind of explain what open source stuff is and what 45 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 1: like O sent is and verification. So it's about trying 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: to track down information using open sources UM on the Internet. 47 00:02:57,680 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 1: So in terms of like nothing is it's it's all. 48 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's it's already sitting there. Nothing requires 49 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: like special access, nothing requires you know, you're to hack 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: into anyone system. UM, it's it's stuff is just the 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: stuff that's already sitting there. The data, whether that be 52 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: you know, geographical data, personal data, data from social media accounts, 53 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: data from every time you've entered your email into a 54 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: random website that you maybe didn't know quite what's going on, 55 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: but you did it. Some that's that gets stored somewhere 56 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: as data and someone can probably find it. UM. So 57 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 1: it's all the stuff about you on the Internet that 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: is all open if you do the digging. UM. Often 59 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: cases this results in going through social media profiles UM. 60 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: That is a good portion of Osan's work is learning 61 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: how to use Google really well and how to how 62 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: to how to go through social media UM. Start using 63 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: like Google search operators, start using social media tools that 64 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: help you sort through information. Because the information is there, 65 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: You just have to learn how to sort through it, right, 66 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: because there's just so much of it. Um. So that's 67 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: kind of just to what open source stuff is. You mean, 68 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,280 Speaker 1: eventually you can get into the stuff like using like Python, 69 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: using code and scrapers, like all that stuff is there too, 70 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: but for our purposes, we're gonna stick to the more 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: simplistic stuff because this is an audio format and I'm 72 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: I'm not going to start explaining Python code on a podcast, right. Um, 73 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: So let's let's let's turn back the clocks a year, um, 74 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 1: a little over a year, and it's January six. What's 75 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: kind of you or your collective's reaction just to kind 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: of watching things unfold? You know, Like as a researcher, 77 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: every every time I look at these types of you know, protests, 78 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, whether they be big or small, always part 79 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: of my brains, like trying to make connections and do 80 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: stuff right. So, as January six is unfolding, what's what's 81 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: kind of going through? Everyone at a post and press 82 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: his head. The first thing that seemed to be collective 83 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: in everybody's mind was, oh my god, none of these 84 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: people are wearing face masks. Yea, like the immediate thing 85 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: is this is probably going to be re really easy 86 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: for a lot of people. There's nobody. Nobody is in 87 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: any type of like block or trying to hide their 88 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: identity in at all, something you see the European fascist 89 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: actually doing more often. There was a I think of 90 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: a video from Germany of a whole bunch of far 91 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: right dudees just to eat in black block because black 92 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: blocks a tactic. Um. So yeah, but in the States 93 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: they're specifically January six, it was Yeah, no one was 94 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: really worried about keeping their identity secret. They really did 95 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: not think what they were doing was wrong. I think 96 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: the other thing we were a lot of us were 97 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: really angry. Um, just like we had been like yelling 98 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 1: that this was gonna happen, screaming it out, like trying 99 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: to get people to pay attention, and we got blown 100 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: off so much. I remember, just like a few days before, 101 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: I got in an argument with a Facebook friend and 102 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: like people need to be paying attention, like they're planning something. 103 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, it's fine, it's fine, and then you know, 104 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: just a few days later, I'm like, oh, is it fine? 105 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: Like that is kind of always the curse of surveilling 106 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: all of these things, whether they be like a specific 107 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: event or some movement in general. Right, people who are 108 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: really into q and on before the Libs knew what 109 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: Qunan was and we're warning about it for years before 110 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 1: you know it resulted in people dying. Um. Right, That's 111 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,040 Speaker 1: that's kind of always the curse of these things is 112 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: that it's it's you get. You get the mix of 113 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: the shock and horder of the thing finally happening and 114 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: a weird relief. It's it's, it's, it's it's it's a 115 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: very bizarre feeling to watch these things unfold because you're like, oh, 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: I'm vindicated, but it sucks that I'm vindicated. Right. I remember, 117 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: like the December watching all these groups, like I was 118 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: just it was just filled with dread. Yea. I knew 119 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: something was gonna happen. I didn't know what was gonna happen, 120 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: and it was just so much anxiety. And then like 121 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: it's funny, January six after it happened, like it all 122 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: went away. I was able to get a dec at 123 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: night sleep. Um, just because there was I didn't have 124 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: that build up of suspense of what what is it 125 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: going to be? What's it gonna look like? How bad 126 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,559 Speaker 1: is it going to be? Kind of had that release. Yeah, 127 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: Unfortunately they were all like amateur, didn't know what they 128 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: were doing, and it wasn't as bad as it could 129 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: have been. Yeah. Well, I think as for the open 130 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: source stuff, I'm going to kind of walk us through 131 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: chronologically and of in terms of the journey of zip 132 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: tie Guy because I was doing like archiving on January six, 133 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,160 Speaker 1: But zip Tike I was really the only dude I 134 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: was interested in identifying. There was there was a lot 135 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: of other people doing really great identification work. I was 136 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: also generous six. I was going through all the social 137 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: media history of Ashley Babbitt, archiving all of her Twitter 138 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: and Facebook like years of stuff. I was to chronicle 139 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 1: how she went from like an Obama voter to a 140 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: Q and on from proponent. So that was what I 141 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: was doing, and I was writing an article with Belling 142 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: Cat about that. Um. But the only only other guy 143 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: I wanted to identify was zip tie Guy because he 144 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: was really interesting. He was one of the few guys 145 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: that was masked up. UM. He had what he had 146 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: visible weapons on him. He was obviously carrying zip ties. 147 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: You know it gives you images of like, oh yeah, 148 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: it's like they're planning to capture and execute people. That 149 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: was like the general kind of vibe um of that. 150 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: So he was the only person that I I was actually 151 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: put work into identifying, and I put a decent amount 152 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: of work in. Now I I failed where other people succeeded, 153 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: and we can talk about like why in a sec 154 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: But for like a day at least, all we had 155 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: to go on was the picture of the guy holding 156 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: the zip ties in a mask. Um. There's a few 157 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: other pictures of him around from that day, but it's 158 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: mostly mostly one picture and the biggest clue that we 159 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: had to start with, Um, what what what? Why? Why 160 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: don't you explain what the what the first clue is 161 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,959 Speaker 1: and how that maybe piqued your interest. He had two 162 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: patches on his vest, and one of them was a 163 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: thin blue line patch, but it was in this uh 164 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: shape of the state of Tennessee. So so yeah, in 165 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: terms of having a decent lead, that is like, okay, 166 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: well that that narrows it down to one of fifties 167 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: states probably right, Yeah, I should say I'm from Knoxville, 168 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: so like it be in Tennessee that I picked up 169 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: on that because that's my state. Yeah, that it becomes 170 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: a local problem. I And as someone in Oregon, I 171 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: definitely understand that feeling of of yeah, when fascism becomes 172 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,959 Speaker 1: a local problem of yeah. So that definitely piqued your 173 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: interest specifically, but then also gives a really good lead 174 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: for like where to look because Ozar, he's not trying 175 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: to do a meta thing by tricking us into giving 176 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: us a false lead. Generally people don't do that as 177 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: often in real life as they do in television. Um 178 00:09:57,800 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: but there's still has plenty of other ways to detect. 179 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I love I love detecting, and there's there's enough, 180 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: there's enough stuff to do otherwise that making it needlessly 181 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,599 Speaker 1: complicated as Honestly, I'm fine with it not being that. 182 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,839 Speaker 1: Um So, yeah, we had we had that to go 183 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: off initially, So starting looking for like far right activity 184 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: in Tennessee. You know, I was an outsiders. I didn't 185 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,439 Speaker 1: really know where to start in terms of specific rallies, 186 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: but I know, used, Uh, at what point did you 187 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: start looking trying to like go through pictures of specific 188 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 1: rallies to try to like match clothing or stuff. I 189 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: think it was probably it may have been that day 190 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: or the day after when I started going through the 191 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: notebooks that I had, like names of just people we 192 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: suspected may become problems, um, and I started looking at 193 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:56,319 Speaker 1: their profiles again and you know, didn't find anything. And 194 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: in our research that we had already done, we didn't 195 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: see anything on Yeah, I mean that was kind of 196 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 1: the case for me as well. With just the picture 197 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: of the zip tie, a guy with the patch, I mean, 198 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: it's it's a lead, but there wasn't tons to go on. 199 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 1: But thankfully, thankfully are are good friends. At January six, 200 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: we're giving us more clues as because as the Simpsons 201 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: meme goes, videotaping this crime scene was the best idea 202 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: we ever had. Um. So, like January I think seventh, 203 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: there was a live stream video that was kind of 204 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: circulating through like anti fascist group chats um. It was. 205 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: It was posted like publicly to get everyone's attention on 206 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,079 Speaker 1: it on January eight, um, but for like a day 207 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: it was kind of passing through back channels and throughout 208 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: in this live stream, which is yeah, there was so 209 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: many people were live streaming that night and it is 210 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 1: a kind of surreal thing to watch of them. This 211 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: this this live stream in particular, it is the zip 212 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: Ti guy if you was friends, um, I think his 213 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: mom and a few and just ranting the people from 214 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: January six all hanging out at a hotel room, um 215 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: towards like it's it is. It is the night of 216 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: the sixth, and they're all just hanging out again totally 217 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: like no masks, they're they're they're in a hotel lobby, 218 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: no masks, um, and they're just like hanging out on 219 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: chilly like sitting on the couch and chatting for like 220 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: half an hour. It's one of the weirdest videos to watch. 221 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 1: All all of the live streams from that night are 222 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: so surreal because it is like this transitionary period of 223 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: like after the capital attack but before every before like 224 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 1: people like go down on them, so they don't really 225 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: know how to behave They still think what they did 226 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: was kind of fine, even though at this point, like 227 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: I think like four or five people are dead. Um. 228 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: But it's so weird just watch them just interact like 229 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: such normal people in this moment like after they did 230 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: this thing, then they go in this hotel room and 231 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: they are acting completely normal. So it's it's just a 232 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: weird video in general. But what it does have is 233 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: someone in the same outfit as Zip Tie guy with 234 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,160 Speaker 1: no mask on. You actually actually can see his full face. Ye. 235 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: Getting to see his full face was a big make 236 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: it big help, big help, because we ever, everyone was 237 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: looking for pictures of this guy without his mask all 238 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: like for the entirety of the day. So now having 239 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: a whole video where we gonna see like all of 240 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: the angles of him was great. It was perfect. The 241 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: best the best thing that was really the beauty of 242 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: of all of of all of all the January six 243 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: documentation is how many people were live streaming themselves doing 244 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: crimes and their friends. Um it did. It did make 245 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: the archiving and uh well not the archiving part. Archiving 246 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: is always painful and tedious, but it made the actual 247 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: research afterwards a lot easier because there was so much 248 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,200 Speaker 1: the documentation of it. So yeah, we we got we 249 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: got this video. I'm gonna explain how I kind of 250 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: took this video and failed to reach the conclusion, and 251 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: then we can talk about how you succeeded. But first, 252 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: but first we're gonna hear some ads from our lovely 253 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 1: products and services. Robert was here for our previous recording, 254 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: uh that we tried to end I failed, and he 255 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: made some very good jokes uh and very good segways 256 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: about how all of our sponsors support insurrection, just like 257 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: January six, And if I tried to repeat the jokes, 258 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: it will be stupid. So I'm just gonna I'm just 259 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 1: gonna give you the sense there was a joke, and 260 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: now you're gonna be left with that dissatisfaction. So bye, goodbye. 261 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: Here's some ads. Okay, we're back, and I'm going to 262 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: give an extremely brief rundown and how I failed to 263 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: do uh well, I didn't fail to do research. I 264 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: did research. I just didn't reach a proper conclusion. Um 265 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: and I knew that. So the the the other the 266 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: other thing about Zip Tie Guy he had he had 267 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: the patch of like the thin blue line in Tennessee 268 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: and then that's at Then I soon after got the 269 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: video of his face and uh interacting with people. And 270 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: the the other thing is I think, um we the 271 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: hat he was wearing in the Zip Tie Guy photo 272 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: was I think was tracked back to be um our 273 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: favorite coffee company, Black Rifle Coffee merchandise. It was it 274 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: was like what was what was one of the hats 275 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: they sell. So me, being clever, I'm like, Okay, here's 276 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: this Black Raffer Coffee hat, this patch in Tennessee. I 277 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: know Black Ripe of Coffee is based out of Tennessee. 278 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go look through everyone who works for Black 279 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: Raff of Coffee, which you mean isn't a bad instinct 280 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: as an outsider. But it did not. It did not succeed. 281 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: But the funny thing is is that while looking through 282 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: all the employees at Black Apple Coffee, all of them 283 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: do look identical to Zip Tie guy. They all same characteristics. 284 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: They all look exactly the same on their their beards, 285 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: their nose, their forehead, their hair, all of them identical, 286 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: every single one of them, to the point where the 287 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: only way I could tell that it wasn't a Zip 288 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: Tie guy was being like, Okay, no, he has a 289 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: mole here, he has like a birthmark here. This way 290 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: his like his eyes are his eye wrinkles are different. 291 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: So it's like it's going down to the very like 292 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: fine tuned facial features because all of their face shapes 293 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: are like I tentical. I think there's a point that 294 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: I had the same instinct. I think I know there's 295 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: a point that I went through, um the black Coffee Rifle, 296 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: all of their people look, Um, I don't know if 297 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: it was for Eric Wntel or if it was like 298 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: maybe around the written house stuff. I don't know. Uh. Yeah, 299 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: So that that's that's what I spent my time doing, 300 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:33,400 Speaker 1: is going through everybody who works there of Uh. But 301 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: but by the time I kind of gave up on that, 302 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: the identity was already discovered, um and posted by your 303 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: team at a possum press. So how how did you 304 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: get from you know, this zip Tygi picture than the 305 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: light the archived livestream video of him without without a mask, 306 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 1: to to the point where you could say, hey, this 307 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: is his name? Well I was, I wasn't even really 308 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: in cont hacked with Like we as a group weren't 309 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,680 Speaker 1: messaging each other trying to figure this out together, but 310 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: we were, like it turns out a few of us 311 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: were working separately. So while I'm going through social media, UM, 312 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: a friend in Nashville was um going through pictures of 313 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: the protests from there over the summer, and they ended 314 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: up finding about five different pictures, I think, and we 315 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: knew we knew most of the people in the pictures 316 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: that are maybe like one or two that we did 317 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: not know, and one was always Eric Munchell and he's 318 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: wearing the exact same gear he wore January six. Um, 319 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: I say, Eric Munchel, we didn't know his name yet then, 320 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: so um, from there, we kind of we went ahead 321 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: and posted what we had to Twitter, and then we 322 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: went back to the social media and I started looking 323 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: through the profiles that were the people we knew, and 324 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,720 Speaker 1: sure enough, one of them, Kurt Dennis, had a live 325 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: stream that was telling the story, um, the same story 326 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: that Eric Mutchell told him, that thirty minute video and 327 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: he actually while telling it, he's like, yeah, my buddy Eric. 328 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: So at that point we go to his friend's list 329 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,159 Speaker 1: and sure enough, he only has one Eric there and 330 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: it's Eric Mutchell. And there we go to that page 331 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: and find some of the same gear in the background 332 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: of the pictures that he has publicly posted. Yeah, he 333 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: like puts the pictures of him and his gear with 334 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: like guns, and yeah, you can you can track all 335 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 1: of his like facial like like like like birthmarks and stuff. 336 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: They're all the same. So yeah, you and that that's you. 337 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: You definitely got him of Yeah, their own mistakes Yeah, 338 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: that's that's my favorite part. Like they they gave us 339 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: his identity. They often, if not handing themselves to you 340 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: on a silver pilatter, they at least have a platter. Um. 341 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: They they often there's often enough bread, right. The reason 342 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: why these things are solved because there are enough bread 343 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: comes to follow and often they kind of leave pretty 344 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: big chunks of bread. Um. Just the fact that again 345 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: added to the surreal aspect of that whole live stream video, 346 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: the fact that he's like you matched it by telling 347 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: the same You can hear them someone tell the same story. 348 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 1: It's just such a weird, weird, surreal thing. Yeah. So 349 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 1: I think in terms of like oas and stuff, what 350 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:33,000 Speaker 1: this case study in particular really highlights is the importance 351 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: of archival stuff. Right. The reason why you were able 352 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: to solve this and not me because I wasn't. I mean, 353 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 1: I did my own archival thing for archiving, like the video. 354 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: But um, the way that you were able to really 355 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: crack this open and everyone else who worked on it 356 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: is because you had like those lists of connections of 357 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: people who are already kind of active in this like 358 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: al right far right scene within your local community, Like 359 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 1: you already had documentation of the major players who they 360 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: interact with, or you already had pictures of this guy 361 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: in gear with other known people. So the fact that 362 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 1: there was already previously work archived really made the success 363 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: of this so much more possible. That's what they uh 364 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: People's Plaza and Nashville during their protests, they were really 365 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: big on documenting. Um they documented everything with the police 366 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: and um any counter protesters they would. They had professional 367 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: photographers out there making sure we had good, clear quality 368 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: pictures of like everybody on the other side as well, 369 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: and that definitely helped us a lot. Yeah, because especially 370 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: before January six, they there was they did a decent 371 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: job of archiving themselves, well not not archiving, but like 372 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: filming themselves and documenting themselves. And then you know, it 373 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: takes takes other research to then archive that. So not 374 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: only important just to like look at the research and 375 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: look at like the documentation of the that people do 376 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: of themselves, but then make sure that you have a 377 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: source for that that's not their own uploading of it. Right. So, 378 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: like a great example is like all of the live 379 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 1: streams from January six, including like this one from this 380 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:19,680 Speaker 1: hotel room. Pretty soon it was deleted by the person 381 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 1: who posted it because they realized, oh maybe I shouldn't 382 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: have this living record of my crimes. Um. But at 383 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: that point people already saved the video. They already like, 384 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: I already ran it through a video of saving program 385 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: that I had. UM. So it's it's important not only 386 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: to get archiving, having having having previous documentation of people 387 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: and known players, but then as new information is coming out, 388 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: make sure you make separate copies of that for your 389 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: own sake so that you actually have it and then 390 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,439 Speaker 1: you're not gonna be stuck looking for something that's gone. Right. 391 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: The worst case scenarios to like you know that there 392 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: was an important thing, but you just don't have access 393 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: to it anymore. It's like you you remember seeing it, 394 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: you didn't say it, and now it's gone. That's a 395 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: horrible feeling to do when you're trying to get this 396 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: kind of research done. UM. And like it happens, we all, 397 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: we all make mistakes like this. UM, I definitely have 398 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: it happened to me actually this week. Yeah, it happens 399 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: all the time, and it happens to be. It happens 400 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: to be all the time. I'll look at something to 401 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: be like I should probably save this. I get distracted 402 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: or I just don't want to because archindague is boring 403 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: and tedious, and then I check again that's gone. I'm like, 404 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: well that's should I should have archived it. Yea. So 405 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: on top of all of the archiving stuff, which in general, 406 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: anti fascist research is really that that's the thing that 407 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,959 Speaker 1: really excels at even like um above above journalism is like, 408 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: you know, getting like traditional journalism is like getting a 409 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: good documentation of like key fascist players in your area, 410 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: key people who are kind of pushing far right stuff 411 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: and far right violence. Actually getting like a good a good, 412 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: a good idea of who they are and having that 413 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: knowledge always handy. Um is something that this type of 414 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 1: research is is really that that is really what it 415 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: excels at, or like what what the what those researchers 416 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: excel at? This is the thing that they do very well. 417 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: I think a lot of us probably started doing it 418 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: just out of curiosity looking into people, and that that 419 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: is certainly how I started, Like I've been doing it 420 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 1: long before. I just didn't know that's what it was called, 421 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: because like I'd see somebody make a messed up common 422 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,439 Speaker 1: online I'm like, who is this person? And then you know, 423 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: trying to find as much as I can about them. Yeah, 424 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: that's that is certainly how I got started with this 425 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: type of thing, because it can be fun to look 426 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 1: for bad people. It is, it is. It is kind 427 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: of pleasurable UM and one of one of the again 428 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: another big contributing factor. And how you got Zip tie guy, 429 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: How how I got and how how a lot of 430 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: this stuff works UM is uh the beauty of Facebook 431 00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: as a research tool because often in order in order 432 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: in order to do the archiving, you need to have 433 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: stuff to archive, and a lot of the stuff that 434 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: gets posted from these things by the people doing them 435 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: UM is done on Facebook, or at least it used 436 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 1: to write the past five years, really, Facebook has been 437 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: the main main source of this UM. Now it's maybe 438 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,679 Speaker 1: now people are kind of getting wise and maybe some 439 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: STU is moving to telegram. Facebook is becoming a little 440 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: little bit less important of a platform for this type 441 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 1: of research. And I know Facebook has changed the way 442 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 1: that they um that you can use their service, so 443 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: it does make research kind of harder in some ways, 444 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: but but even still it is it is one of 445 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: the better tools to UM to dig into certain types 446 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: of people, because there is certain types of people who 447 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: are going to be more likely to use Facebook. Um. 448 00:24:55,520 --> 00:25:00,959 Speaker 1: And yeah, in terms of how getting Facebook was the method, 449 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: it's not where the place where you're able to make 450 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: the link between the fascist you already knew and and 451 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: eric um because of because you are you already you 452 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: you already knew who the players were, and that Facebook 453 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: had the visualized network to actually make those connections. So 454 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 1: Facebook itself and social media in general is really is 455 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,679 Speaker 1: really useful. And then in terms of how this operate, 456 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: it's like going through friends lists is really easy. Um, 457 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: but oftentimes a lot of people will not maybe have 458 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,360 Speaker 1: those public um and what what Then there's again it's 459 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: not a dead road. You can still look through likes, 460 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: you can still look through shares, you can still look 461 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: through like, um if you like people are tagged in photos. 462 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: Um it really it really is a is a great 463 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: is a great system that is good at making you 464 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,159 Speaker 1: not have privacy. That is the thing. It really it 465 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: really excels it. Yeah. And even even if people don't 466 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: have like an active social media presence per se um, 467 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: it can still be really useful in getting specific names 468 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: of people or or just make or just having a 469 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: connection be known like this. This was mostly how I 470 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: was able to identify the all the anonymous UM riot 471 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: cops in when when the Portland Police Bureau took took 472 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 1: away their badge numbers and names. UM, is that I 473 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: could get like a list of cops and we could 474 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: start figuring out like, okay, this is probably this is 475 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: this is this is pre cops previously on the right team, right, 476 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: and start doing facial matching UM. And then if I 477 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: want to learn out, if if I want to if 478 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: I want to learn more information about like their first name, 479 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: and more information about them in general, even if they 480 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: don't have a social media profile, often their wife might 481 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: or their mom might. You know, there's a UM And 482 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: in terms of fun sentences to say, really learning how 483 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: to exploit people's family as a weakness is is is 484 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: wonderful um for this type of stalking stalking bad people. UM. 485 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: Because Yeah, because a lot of a lot of a 486 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:06,479 Speaker 1: lot of the riot cops were smart enough to not 487 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: to at least to either not have their presence at 488 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,080 Speaker 1: all on the internet UM or to have it very 489 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,719 Speaker 1: locked down in terms of you know, no one can 490 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,399 Speaker 1: see their posts, no one can see their friends. No 491 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: one can see anything, but still their wife will occasionally 492 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: tag them in photos or uh maybe not even photos 493 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: of them, but like they'll they'll just take them in 494 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: a photo of like their kid or something. And then 495 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: this just creates more ways to make connections so that 496 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: you can, you know, learn more about these specific people. Um, 497 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: because sometimes that's fun and interesting. I've noticed some people 498 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: with socks that I've found their identity. It's by going 499 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: through the likes and seeing, um, you know, the same 500 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: woman is always the first to put a heart react there, 501 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: and you can go to their pages. Sometimes it's a 502 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: little if you go through their pictures and you see 503 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: a picture of the guy there with they'll have like 504 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: somebody in the comments, oh Mark looks really good, they're something. 505 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: You know. Naming the husband from thery you can get 506 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: the last thing you know, you've know the wife's last name, 507 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: you have a good chance of that being their last name. Yeah. Yeah. 508 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: So family families really is really great pro finding people 509 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: because because like all of the other research is is 510 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,280 Speaker 1: learning how to make these open source connections, right, A 511 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: lot a lot of it is connections and networking, and 512 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 1: people usually always have an innate connection and networking and 513 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 1: that that that is their family. UM. And often this 514 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: like extends out in terms of you know, political organizing, 515 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 1: whether you're part of you know, militias or just kind 516 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: of smaller groups. Yeah, that is another network. Um friends 517 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: is another network. But you know, for people who are 518 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 1: kind of are are more locked down, it is possible 519 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 1: to find the information about people, um, you know, especially 520 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: if if they have like if they have like a 521 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: not very common last name, you know, that can make 522 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: finding information about them much easier if using tools like Facebook. Um. 523 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: And then it's you know, just a matter of doing 524 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: all the other you know, open source research of you know, 525 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 1: comparing clothing, um, you know, and comparing to what other 526 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: kind of information you already know about the person, email addresses, 527 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: phone numbers, if you can, you know, get that, get 528 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff as well. But I think that's 529 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: all he had on zip tie guy out mostly. M Yeah, 530 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: here's a really easy one. There's not a whole lot 531 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: to really dive into their Yeah. No, for for someone 532 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: for someone who was one of the few people masked up, 533 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: wasn't was not was not that hard to find. I mean, yeah, 534 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: of course, the fact that he was found by local 535 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: people in his area. Not surprising. Um. That's another thing 536 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: anti fascist research is really good at, is that type 537 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: of local research because you know they they have they 538 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: have all those local connections, they have those local um 539 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: documentation of like a political events that have happened in 540 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:00,120 Speaker 1: their area. So again it's the the importance of of 541 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: having stuff archives and having stuff like sorted and having 542 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: stuff organized well so you can access your archived information 543 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: is really important. It's it's it sucks that it's it's 544 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: the part of OS and I hate the most. Everyone. 545 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: Everyone hates. Everyone hates. I'm I'm sure there's some sick 546 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: of out there who likes it, but everyone else, everyone 547 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: else hates all of the We hate all this organizing 548 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: and sorting. And I find archiving to be tedious. Archiving videos, 549 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: live streams, it's tedious, it's difficult. Um, it's done, it's 550 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: time consuming, it's repetitive, it's not generally not a good time, 551 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: but it is so useful and in the long run 552 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: of trying to get these like a list of of 553 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: like established players in your area, this is how you 554 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: start seeing patterns. Right. You need to have this information 555 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 1: already laid out so you can actually watch the patterns unfold. 556 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: Otherwise it's just a whole bunch of chaotic information that 557 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: means nothing. So it's it's super important, as as much 558 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: of a bummer as it may be. Yeah, let's see, UM, 559 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: is there anything you've been working on since then that 560 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: you like that you would like to talk about, or 561 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: any upcoming research projects? Right now, I'm really focused on 562 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: our local UM school board, and you know, like many 563 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 1: towns across the country, we have fascists trying to take 564 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,480 Speaker 1: it over and going to the meetings, and so I've 565 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: been watching that group very closely for the last several months, 566 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,320 Speaker 1: since probably about October. Our school year, we started out 567 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: without a mask mandate UM and a couple of parrots 568 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 1: UM who's children need like they're there, I mean a 569 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: compromise like their their kids need the everybody else to 570 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,080 Speaker 1: wear a mask. So their parents sued the school board 571 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: and our governor UM to have a mass band aid. 572 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: The judge issued an injunction and like the next Monday, 573 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: all the schools had to wear a mask, and the 574 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: anti mask crowd is like losing their ship over it. 575 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: Still UM trying to figure out how to fire the judge. Um, 576 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, we have a member of Patriot Church 577 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: who's involved in it, and you know they're the ones 578 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: with the Church of plan Parenthood. It's Ken Peter too. 579 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: I think he's from Washington, yes, spoken, I believe, yeah, 580 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 1: and he's he's moved down here. Um. I think he 581 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: still goes up there to the to the church stuff, 582 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: but most of his time is spent down here in 583 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: Tennessee and causing just as much trouble as he does 584 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: up there and his followers. So I'm curious to see 585 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 1: how how does a research project like this school board 586 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: thing differ from like the research surrounding you know, trying 587 00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: to identify someone at January six. Oh, for one, this 588 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 1: is local. It's you know, I'm going to the school 589 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: board meetings. Um. I know it's easier to know where 590 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: to look for this because like I'm watching it as 591 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,840 Speaker 1: it happening where you like, you know, January six. Most 592 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:18,840 Speaker 1: of those people you have no clue where to even 593 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: start from. Um. So this more now, it's it's monitoring 594 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: and documenting as we've you know, figure out who these 595 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: people are, like linking Telegram names with Facebook names and 596 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 1: all of that. So I guess now, it's more record 597 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: keeping and getting that documentation done early, so when one 598 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 1: of them goes too far, we have and we haven't ready. 599 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's that's the sad part where it's 600 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,080 Speaker 1: like you're watching innevitive inevitability almost as it can mean. 601 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: But that's yeah, that's also how like January six works. Right, 602 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: We were able to identify these people because there was 603 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: a lot of documentation of a lot of major players already. Right, 604 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: So a lot of the work in between these big 605 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 1: protests and events is is the is this is the slow, 606 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: tedious documentation because we have to do it now so 607 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,319 Speaker 1: that it's a useful later. Let's you know, a big 608 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: part of research is like, yeah, trying to spot potential, 609 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: you know, issues and archiving it and then if the 610 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 1: issue ever becomes a bigger issue, you already have information 611 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: on it, right, whether that be you know, watching someone 612 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: online who you might think is who like, watching someone 613 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: who's like a Nazi who you might be worried that 614 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,240 Speaker 1: like they're posting and plans about how to kill people. 615 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: You're like, okay, so probably look into this dude, because 616 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,480 Speaker 1: he's doing this in case he does something in the future. 617 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: Um it is that is kind of it sucks because yeah, 618 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: you are watching this thing where you feel kind of helpless, 619 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: but you know that documenting it is worthwhile. Um they ye. Yeah, 620 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,600 Speaker 1: it's the same thing where like you don't want to 621 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: be vindicated, but if it does been, it's better to 622 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: be prepared because I don't think people realize like how 623 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 1: much anti fascist research, how much of this type of 624 00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: like ohs and stuff like my journalism, Like most of 625 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 1: the work that you put into it is never seen. 626 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: Even if you do complete investigations. Sometimes by the end 627 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,800 Speaker 1: you're like it's getting getting them, getting them out in 628 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: enough time for them to be useful. Sometimes it isn't 629 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: even worth it. Um. So you know a lot of 630 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: it is you know, writing stuff and doing research that 631 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: never actually sees the light of day for a long 632 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: long time. Right with Eric Mountchell, we had like probably 633 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: twenty people we had on our list too, and he 634 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,399 Speaker 1: wasn't even one of them. Yeah, so you do all 635 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: this and like on one hand, it almost felt in 636 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,919 Speaker 1: a moment like all of that we did was really 637 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: for nothing, But now it did lead to Yeah, it 638 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,520 Speaker 1: did lead And even when you do find the correct answer, 639 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: sometimes sometimes could via circumstances. You know, it's not something 640 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,239 Speaker 1: you need to put about immediately. Sometimes it's worth just 641 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: you know, hanging onto um and not being super super 642 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: public about every horrible thing you find. It's not like 643 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 1: you don't need to post every time you find a 644 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: horrible thing on Telegram. You don't. You don't need to 645 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: tell Twitter that. It's like it's it's about collecting these 646 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 1: things and keeping them there for future use. Um. Well, 647 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on to talk with 648 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: me again, um, after after already already discussing, uh, mostly 649 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,360 Speaker 1: the same things. Where can people follow your stuff online? 650 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:44,239 Speaker 1: We're on Twitter at um at a possum press really easy. Yeah, 651 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: we're on Facebook. We don't actually do much on Facebook. Um. Yeah, 652 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: as we've discussed now, you probably probably shouldn't like in 653 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, a lot of like fashions 654 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: organizing that used to be done in primarily like Facebook 655 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: groups or just even just like through the like incidental 656 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,840 Speaker 1: organizing through just through like posting and cross posting. A 657 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: lot of that has been moved over to Telegram. At 658 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: this point. Telegram is kind of the new main nexus, 659 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,279 Speaker 1: whereas Facebook and like the days of the early alts right, 660 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: Facebook was a pretty big nexus for like the more 661 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: normalis right. You know, it's there, there is actually fascist 662 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: forms that we're doing organizing, but as a place for again, 663 00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of people in January six who didn't 664 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: really know what they were doing was wrong. They were 665 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:29,840 Speaker 1: mostly you know, make America Great Again people or Q 666 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: and on people. A good portion of like most of 667 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: them were not you know, swastika waving Nazis. Um. They 668 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,600 Speaker 1: may they may agree with fascist ideas, but they don't 669 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: they don't self describe as Nazis. So like um. But 670 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: we're even seeing after after January six with you know, 671 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: um Facebook like cracking down on these groups, other platforms 672 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: like Partla going offline, a lot of these normies themselves 673 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: or even migrating onto Telegram. Um. So you know, Facebook 674 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 1: used to be a really great read research tool, and 675 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,879 Speaker 1: I'm using it less and left less and less often 676 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,279 Speaker 1: now unfortunately, because I mean it really didn't have a 677 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: lot of strong suits. Telegram does have his own strong suits, 678 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,080 Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's still it's still different. I 679 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: think the normans moved into Telegram is troubling though, because 680 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: a way easier time that is there. That is the 681 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: obvious thing is Yeah, now that those groups are in 682 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,959 Speaker 1: closer proximity, it's easier for one to seep into the other, 683 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: whereas before there was more of that distinction. Um. Yes, 684 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: that is a worrying thing that I believe we've talked 685 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,319 Speaker 1: about before and we'll talk about again um in the 686 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: future in terms of having this like fascist milieu or 687 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: cultic milieu, UM of a place where the the amount 688 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 1: of the amount of overlap between you know, your uncle 689 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: who's a regular Conservative and you know a member of 690 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: Adam often or you know someone who wishes they remember 691 00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: of Adam often, UM is very small. It's a very 692 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: these they are, they are very close together. Yeah. Well, 693 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,000 Speaker 1: thank you for talking about all of these things on 694 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: our on our second osand case study episode. Like guess 695 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:16,760 Speaker 1: big big big takeaways is uh, archiving is great, archive 696 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: live streams, archived things because it's better to have them 697 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: um and not use them than not have them and 698 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,680 Speaker 1: need them. UM. And then you know, archiving and documenting 699 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: local fascists is really great, even for things beyond your locality, 700 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: like in January six. Um. So those are those are 701 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 1: my main takeaways from this and uh, you know, also 702 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: everyone in Black Life Coffee, they all, they all look 703 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: like everyone at Day six, all of them do they 704 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: do all right? That doesn't for us. Thank you so much. 705 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,960 Speaker 1: I can follow the metoposs and press um. Good bye, everybody. 706 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of pool Zone Media. 707 00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,760 Speaker 1: For more podcasts and pool Zone Media, visit our website 708 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 1: Zone media dot com, or check us out on the 709 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,759 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 710 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,719 Speaker 1: to podcasts. You can find sources for It could Happen Here, 711 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 1: updated monthly at cool zone Media dot com slash sources. 712 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.