1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: This is the business of sports. Should Major League Baseball 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: shorten up the season? How do we present football to 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: the audience of the future. I don't think that most 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: players understand the power that they have. Michael. The future 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: of IndyCar racing is looking bright. Scott Sloshnick very basic 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 1: math here, more bidders means more money. Evan Nobody Williams. 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: The team value has essentially quadruples. And the leaders in 8 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: the sports industry. Time to bring in our guest, hal Steinbrunner, 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,320 Speaker 1: National Hockey League Commissioner Gary Betman, Atlanta Braves president Derek Schiller, 10 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Patriots President Jonathan Kraft. Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, 11 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 1: I'm Michael Bark, I'm Evan Novie Williams, and I'm Scott Slosh. 12 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: Over the next hour, we will explore the big money 13 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: issues in the world of sports and talk to some 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,599 Speaker 1: of the biggest players in the industry. Coming up an 15 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: interview with Jared Smith, the president of Ticketmaster, and we'll 16 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: have that for you in a few minutes. But first, 17 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: let's look at the top stories of the week, Beginning 18 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: with a suspension in n C double A basketball. Memphis 19 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: center James Weisman out for a total of twelve games. 20 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: Why Why Because way back in the day, he got 21 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: some help from the guy who just happens to be 22 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: his coach, help Penny. Part Penny was a booster, I 23 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: guess technically by the n c a a's rule book. 24 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: But you know the part here is that Memphis actually 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: played him while they knew this was going on, kind 26 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 1: of challenging the n c a A. But now he's 27 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: going to sit out a bunch of games. And we 28 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: should probably say that Wiseman is sort of the consensus 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: number one pick in the drafts, a hot prospect. Memphis 30 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: is considered one of the best teams in the country, 31 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: the ranks somewhere in the top twenty five right now. Uh, 32 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: he borrowed I believe it was eleven thousand, five hundred 33 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: dollars from from Hardaway a couple of years ago. That's 34 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: a lot of Pennis. Thank you believe he's Oh, come on, Twitter, Paul, 35 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: I believe he's paid that money back. And the weird 36 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: thing about what the n c an now, it's on 37 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: top of this suspension, which is gonna end up being 38 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: being twelve games total. On top of that, he has 39 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: to give eleven thousand, five hundred dollars to a chair 40 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: of his choice. So he's already paid the money back 41 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: to Penny Hardaway. Presumably he needed that money for some reason. 42 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 1: The idea that he also has eleven thod dollars floating 43 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: around I got an idea, it's pretty ridiculous. Henny should 44 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: front him and by the time the n C gets 45 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: around to investigating, it'll be That's something I was gonna ask, 46 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: is that, first of all, if he decides, well, the 47 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: heck with this, I'm just going to the NBA, why 48 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: does he have to pay back the eleven thou dollars? 49 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: And to what happens to Memphis is win loss record? 50 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: If the n C double A says, you know what 51 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: did you A? And then two instead of bed, that's three? Okay? 52 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 1: Is this guys? Anyway? There we go? Okay, here we 53 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: go up next a story interesting. Someone connected with the 54 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: University Florida Gulf Coast send out a hundred offers to 55 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: prospective student at let's air quote, offers to about a 56 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: hundred players to come play football for the school. The 57 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,640 Speaker 1: only problem here is that Florida Gulf Coast, yes a 58 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: Division one school, However, it does not have a Division 59 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 1: one football team. It does have a club football team, 60 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: and some folks who got these offers might have thought 61 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: they were headed to a Division one institution. And this 62 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: is a funny one. This kind of came to my 63 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 1: attention when Florida Gulf Coast tweeted out a statement that 64 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: essentially said, by the way, we don't have a football team. 65 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: If you receive an offer and it's not a scholarship offer. 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: It sounds as though from a bit more reporting that 67 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: there is confusion out there about what offer means. Right. 68 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: The coach of this team, who I believe is not 69 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: a university employees, a volunteer, has said that he made 70 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: it explicitly clear to everybody that he talked to and 71 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: was quote unquote recruiting that they pay their own way. 72 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: There's no scholarships. This offer is if you get into 73 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: the school, you have a spot on the team. That's 74 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 1: what he was promising them. Um, it doesn't seem that 75 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: hard to clear up, like you but yea, once once 76 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: you have you know, dozens of football players in the 77 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: area putting on social media blessed who have received an 78 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: offer to play football at at f GC U. I 79 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: think that kind of caught the attention of some of 80 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 1: the people at the university who said, wait a second, 81 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: who's who's making special, especially the kids that said no 82 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: to Alabama, Michigan and Ohio State. Yes, of course, never mind, 83 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm playing for quarterback recruit who decided to go Do 84 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: anybody know what their nickname is? Already? Golf Coast, anybody? 85 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: All I remember is dunk City, lob City. Whenever they 86 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: went to the Andy Endfield, right was their coach back 87 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: in the day when they went to the you know, 88 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: Sweet sixteen or something like that. What else we got, 89 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: my man? Finally, let's dare into soccer with news that 90 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: one Major League Soccer runner is leading a fifty million 91 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: dollar investment in what he called the most important decade 92 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: for US soccer. Yeah. Well, Richie Graham is an investor 93 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: in the Philadelphia Union of MLS and I sat with 94 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: him yesterday and let me tell you, he did chuckle. 95 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: He did. He said that, and I said, well, you know, Richie, 96 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: we've heard that in the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, 97 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: but you do get some sense that with the World 98 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: Cup coming in uh, the US the predominant host for 99 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: the tournament, that will be some games in Canada and 100 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: Mexico as well. He is all in. He wants to 101 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,920 Speaker 1: create not only media opportunities, but buy up leagues and 102 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 1: teams and academies and even schools to make it a 103 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: one stop shop destination for everything U S soccer, the 104 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: culture of soccer, the fashion of soccer, everything. He wants 105 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: people coming there if you're in the ecosystem. Yeah, that 106 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 1: this kind of first wave of of soccer love in 107 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: America kind of stems back to when America hosted the 108 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: World Cup. And one of the legacies of that hosting, 109 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 1: obviously is is Major League Soccer that the professionals the 110 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: top tier professional soccer league we have right now. So 111 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: I think the assumption is and probably rightfully so that, 112 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, if that was kind of the injection of 113 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: soccer into America, that is going to be another kind 114 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: of step up in terms of the soccer infrastructure here 115 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: in the US. And why not you know, be on 116 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: the early side of investing in that. Yeah, he's got 117 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: a team of let's say, veteran folks from Adidas, ESPN, 118 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: US Soccer COPA nine D to Digital Soccer focus, so 119 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: a seasoned leadership team for this venture. It will be 120 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: interesting to see what becomes of it. Now, let's get 121 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: to this week's interview with Jared Smith, the president of Ticketmaster. 122 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: He's been with the company for more than sixteen years, 123 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,679 Speaker 1: serving as president for the last seven. He leads all 124 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: of the company's technology, customers, service, sales, and marketing operations. Jared, 125 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us right here on 126 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports. Yeah, you bet, thanks for having me. 127 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 1: I think all of our listeners are most of our listeners, 128 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: I hope are familiar with Ticketmaster. If they've bought a 129 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: ticket to a sporting event or or a concert and 130 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: on the past forever, you know, they've probably done it 131 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: through you guys. Give me a sense, real quick scale 132 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: of your business. How big is Ticketmaster's business right now? Yeah? Sure, um, 133 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: it's it's a big business. We're in two thousand eighteen 134 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: or two thousand nineteen, will will process roughly half a 135 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: billion tickets across thirty different countries. You know. The bulk 136 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: of that, obviously is North America. US is obviously our 137 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: biggest market. Um, and will process somewhere in the neighborhood 138 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: of thirty billion dollars in transaction value across across those tickets, 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: four hundred and twenty five thousand events something like that 140 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: that will ticket this year, small but growing and how 141 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: big How big of that portion is sports? Is sports 142 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: half a third? Can you can? You can kind of 143 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: think of it as um, you know, rough order magnitude, 144 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: and it varies pretty wildly by by country, but you know, sports, music, 145 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 1: and all other the biggest and that all other categories 146 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: is arts and theater, Broadway touring shows, things like that. 147 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: But you know, it's rough order magnzude and real quick 148 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: for folks who maybe don't understand exactly how the behind 149 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: the scenes business works. You guys partner with teams, leagues 150 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: or venues and as a result of those partnerships get 151 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: access to being the ticket distributor seller at the front end. 152 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: It's kind of like media rites right in some ways 153 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: and in some ways, UM, it's we often say it's 154 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: it's one of the more confusing business models and one 155 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: of the more misunderstood. It's it's a it's a brand 156 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: that almost is universally recognized. People people know the brand 157 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: and they've interacted with the brand, but they don't they 158 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: don't really understand you know, exactly that how the how 159 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: the rights landscape kind of works. So you can you 160 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: can really think of Ticketmaster is a is a two 161 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: sided marketplace. Um you hear you hear that phrase a 162 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: lot out of silicon value these years, uh, these days, 163 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: But Ticketmaster is exactly that. So on the one hand, 164 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: we have a B two B um you know, kind 165 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: of enterprise SAS business model where we sell essentially sell 166 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: software for sports teams, venues, promoters, theater operators to to 167 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: run their business. So inventory management, pricing distribution CRM, marketing tools, 168 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 1: those types of things. Uh. And then on the other 169 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: side of the business, we have a consumer marketplace ticket 170 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: master dot com and historically, you know, a retail distribution 171 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: network that you know has gone the way of mobile 172 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: devices and the like. But those two are fairly separate 173 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: businesses but are complementary. So the media rights uh analogy 174 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: is pretty accurate on the SAS side in that, you know, 175 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: we we sell the software, but we're essentially engaging in 176 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: a in a relationship where we provide a platform for 177 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: them to do with what they want to to manage 178 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: their business. Uh. And then the business models essentially um, 179 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 1: we charge for the charge fees to consumers for the 180 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: distribution of those tickets, and then we rev share that 181 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: back with whoever the content rights holders a right. That 182 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: was the key for me, because I want to go 183 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: back to two twelve year old Scott Sashnik wants to 184 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: see White Snake at Nasau Colisseum. Great, great show, great show, 185 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: David Coverdale, excellent toid to contain? Was there no jaguar? Though? Um? 186 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: When I look at the cost of these tickets and 187 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: then I see the fees, how often do you hear 188 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: about the fees like, wait a minute, that this seems 189 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: a little high for the service that I'm getting right here? 190 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, exactly. There's a there's a there's a 191 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: little bit of an inside joke when you work at Ticketmaster, right, 192 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: the people find out at the cocktail party, they either 193 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: ask you one or two things to ask you, you know, 194 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: what's with those fees? Or can you get me tickets? Um? 195 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: So you very quickly have to learn how to answer 196 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: both of those questions. The second is no, they're not ours, 197 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: we don't we don't give them out. Um. But it's 198 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's it's a fascinating um um business 199 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: problem in that we don't actually the fees are of 200 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: an extension of the face value of the ticket price. 201 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: It's it's because of the way that the rights work 202 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: in in the value chain, particularly on the music side, 203 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: where the artists or the content holder they're getting a 204 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: percent of the face value the venue or um. Sometimes 205 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: the middleman or sometimes the content itself is sharing in 206 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: those fees and they're not always aligned on on how 207 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: you how you you line up that price. So the 208 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: reality is, you know, uh, there are very few industries 209 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 1: that kind of show what that margin is or what 210 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: that incremental um source of revenue is, and to the 211 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: consumer it really shouldn't matter. It doesn't matter. We actually 212 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 1: believe it would be better for the entire industry to 213 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,680 Speaker 1: go to all in pricing just to read into just 214 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: to remove the confusing for everybody. Does your website have 215 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 1: a tab where you can do that already we're starting 216 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: to do that. Yes, we do it. We do it 217 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: as a matter of course, and almost every country but 218 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: the US UM and most of those countries, it's it's 219 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: required to do that. The challenges, you know, almost you 220 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: have to have everybody do it so that you're not 221 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: at a disadvantage when people are comparison shopping between marketplaces 222 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: that one site seems cheaper than the other because the 223 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: fees aren't baked in up front. Are people not savvy 224 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: enough to to get that distinction that when they check out? 225 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 1: I was going to ask, which is what I understand? 226 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: This earth and fire at the Detroit form or whatever. Yeah, 227 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't characterize it as savvy or not, but it 228 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: it is, uh, you know, it's it's it's learned behavior. 229 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: So the industry has operated that way for a very 230 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: long time, you know, so consumers are trained to expect 231 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: this is a face value. And as I go through 232 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: the process, there's going to be fees that are tacked on. 233 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: Whatever blowback does it come on you? What you say, 234 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: there isn't much. But whatever blowback does exist on the 235 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: consumer side, does that come back to you? I doubt 236 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: if it goes back to the artist or you know, 237 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: it comes back to us. It comes back to us, 238 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: and disproportionately, um comes back to us when when a 239 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: disproportionate amount of the fees you know, are shared outside 240 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: of us. But um, you know, if we absolutely want 241 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: to be an industry leader and we think there's a 242 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: better way to do this, um and and we we 243 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: want to we want to lead the industry in a 244 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 1: way that is also fair for the content holders. Right 245 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: the you ask, why not go out front and do 246 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: it yourself, Well, you have an obligation. Is a platform 247 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: that's used by content holders to be competitive. So if 248 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: you put yourself out there and people and other sites 249 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: aren't doing that, and it impacts conversion for your content holders, 250 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: you put them at a disadvantage. So we're trying to 251 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: We're trying to pull everybody along, uh to get there. 252 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: And I think I think over the next foreseeable future 253 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 1: that will change. It doesn't make a difference way you 254 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: do with the ticketmaster way or the old man bar 255 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: way of walking up to the booth looking for Frank 256 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: Sinatra tickets. People still will scalp. There are scalpers out there. 257 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: How do you guys combat something like that? Um, We 258 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: don't use the word scalper. Um you know there there's 259 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: there are two very distinct groups of people that are 260 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: buying tickets and or selling tickets for a living. Um 261 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: and there are a group of of brokers, some of 262 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: which operate online, some of which operate directly with content 263 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: holders that we think are absolutely a healthy part of 264 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: the ecosystem. All of the attention UH in the industry 265 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: as relates to resale goes, you know, primarily to the 266 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: hottest shows, right, so the the one or two percent 267 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: of the concerts or the sporting events that are actually 268 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: sold out. But the reality is the vast majority plus 269 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: person sports teams aren't gonna like this dirty little out 270 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: there that that aren't sold out or or do have 271 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: inventory that is available. And UM and and ticket brokers 272 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: UM are a source of distribution in the same way 273 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: that travel agents are a source of distribution in the 274 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: and the and the travel business. So they play a 275 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: real role in taking risk off the table and an 276 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: increasing distribution because they've created local businesses or they've created 277 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: ways to UM to understand, you know, how to how 278 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: to monetize and how to price and and how to 279 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: operate those business so UM, so we don't we don't 280 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: have an issue with with any of that, and we're 281 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: certainly not anti resale. We think it's a healthy portion 282 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: of the overall ecosystem. That being said, the other category 283 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: are cheaters, right and there are UM there are a 284 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: big bulk of folks that use um, you know, nefarious tools, 285 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: ticket bots and and other automated, you know, sophisticated technologies 286 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 1: to try and cheat the system to buy the hottest 287 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: of the hot tickets for the sole purpose of of 288 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: reselling those on the secondary market. And um, although it 289 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: would seem to be a relatively easy problem to solve, 290 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: it's not. You know, there's a in the U s alone, Uh, 291 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: there's an eight billion dollar secondary market that's there's a 292 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: a huge arbitrage opportunity. And I don't know many other 293 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: industries where there's been that kind of arbitrage opportunity that 294 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: has existed for that length of time and continues to 295 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: grow where the content holders, whether it's media rights or 296 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: any other product, hasn't found a way to close that 297 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: and grab that those dollars that are leaking out of 298 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: the system back into the places where it should be. 299 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: It should go to the venues, some of which are 300 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: municipally funded, or the content holder theirselves, the artist, the 301 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: promoters taking the risk, the sports team who built the venue, 302 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: paid the player payroll, etcetera, etcetera. So who's out front 303 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: there is that? Like Dan Gilbert back, was it still 304 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: flash sleats when he's like, I'll create my own ticketing 305 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: market in place and make an excuse it for resale 306 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: of of Cavaliers tickets. Yeah, Um, Dan and had had 307 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: a product called flash dets Um that was was was 308 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: certainly UM a leader in that. So, you know, we 309 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: do a bunch of things to answer the previous question. 310 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: We do a bunch of things to protect UM against 311 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: those those software in the in the in the cheaters. 312 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: The reality is many of those things are treating the 313 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: symptoms of the problem and not the core issue itself. 314 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: The only way to solve the core issue itself is 315 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: to actually price it according to market. So go to 316 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 1: your your previous question. You know, why does the arch 317 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: drives exist? And do people complain about ticket prices? Well, 318 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: of course they do, but they're they're still underpriced by 319 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: and large. Sports do a way better job of pricing 320 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: to market versus music. But music also, you know, artists 321 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,920 Speaker 1: are some of the greatest brand managers, long term brand managers, 322 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: and it's not about taking the last dollar. It's about 323 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 1: building a brand where people pay a fair price to 324 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: see a show over some period of time and and 325 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: grow that brand. So what we're trying to do is 326 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: work with artists to price closure to market, recapture some 327 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: of that value directly, because the smaller that opportunity is, 328 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: the more you take the incentive away from somebody to 329 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,320 Speaker 1: cheat to buy and sell. Uh. In number two, we 330 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: believe that we need to control the products real quick. 331 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: On number one there, Um, if you're an artist like 332 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: let's say Taylor Swift, right, someone who you know the 333 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: huge demand for her shows, pricing closer to market might 334 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: mean pricing out a significant portion of your fan base 335 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: that simply can't afford market. Right there. There, there must 336 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: be a push and pulled there for artists who are thinking, man, 337 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: I could all my tickets re sale for five plus, 338 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: but if I listed for four fifty, you know suddenly 339 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: half my fans can't even afford to go to a concert. Yeah, 340 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 1: we don't think they're mutually Well, they didn't care Hamilton's 341 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: tickets back in the day or even now, they didn't care. 342 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,239 Speaker 1: They wanted to hit a certain price point where there 343 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: was no resale. Yeah, they wanted they wanted a price 344 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: according to market. And but Hamilton's is a good example 345 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: of of a of a unique event. Right, you've very 346 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: very high demanded a very very small theater. Um with 347 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: a repetition of of that in a in a tourist 348 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: heavy market like New York Broadway. Um. But you know 349 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: when you when you're talking about Taylor Swift and an 350 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: arena or in the stadium, Um, there's there's lots of 351 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: examples of how do you price more more close closely 352 00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: to market at the front of the house, which actually 353 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: if you if you get higher grosses out of the 354 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: front of the house, can actually help you lower the 355 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: price in the back of the house. So you become 356 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: a little bit more equitable. Um, you know, taking the 357 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: first ten rows and getting them closer to what you 358 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: would see in sports of court side seating. Right, the 359 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: cost to go to a Lakers game and set courtside 360 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: is orders of magnitude higher than the us to sit 361 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: in the front row of a Taylor Swift show as 362 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: an example. Right, So if you can get more out 363 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: of those seats, it actually allows you to lower prices 364 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: in maybe the upper deck or the back portions of 365 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 1: the lower bowl of an arena show. And we've actually 366 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: seen higher grosses if it's done right at lower average 367 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: ticket price across the entire arena. So it's it's growing 368 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: in its sophistication, and there's a lot for music in 369 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: theater to learn from sports, because that's exactly what sports does. Right. 370 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: The average NBA team is an example, probably has you know, 371 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 1: thirty to fifty price up levels over the course of seats. 372 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: The average concert has less than ten, and many of 373 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: them have four or five. Right, So the more you 374 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 1: can break that up, they actually you can get closer 375 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: to market and and actually achieve kind of both of 376 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: those things at the same time. Another one of the 377 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: ticketmaster answers to some of these problems is Safe Ticks 378 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,119 Speaker 1: program that you guys started a couple of years ago, 379 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,159 Speaker 1: and correct me if I'm wrong. Was Taylor Swift the 380 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: first one to kind of go through this process? I 381 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: thought she had a brilliant approach to this, right, which 382 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: was essentially creating an entire ecosystem where her fans got 383 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 1: points for doing things like buying her album, interacting on 384 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: social you know, shopping in her shop, and depending on 385 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 1: your point level, that determined your access to her shows. Yeah, now, 386 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: that's exactly what she did, and it was a it 387 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: was a program that um that we kind of co 388 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 1: created with her. Was she was the first one to 389 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: to do that type of activity. UM. We we started 390 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: a program called Verified Fan of two issue years ago 391 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,880 Speaker 1: and it was it was essentially that, right instead of UM, 392 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 1: you know, taking all of this demand and trying to 393 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: sort out who was an actual fan and who was 394 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: an automated computer at the time of the onset. When 395 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: you have this crush of all that this demand on 396 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: the systems in real time, how do we separate those 397 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: two things? Have people pre register UM and then in 398 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,840 Speaker 1: some form or fashion provide us some information that we 399 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: could asynchronously, like not in real time, uh determined you know, 400 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,320 Speaker 1: based on purchase history and that kind of stuff, who 401 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 1: was an actual fan versus a verse is a boat? 402 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: How do you do that in advance and then give 403 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: them a code to come back in and and actually purchase. 404 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: And we've had a lot of success with with that 405 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 1: program over time. Taylor um camp and that show took 406 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: that to a different level, which is to say, instead 407 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: of just determining who was a who was a person 408 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: and versus bot? You know, how do I reward the 409 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: people who have who have supported me the most? And 410 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: created a points program based on previous previous attendance at 411 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: our shows and how many albums they had bought, so 412 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 1: on and so forth, and uh and really broke new ground. 413 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: Now it's a it's a longer, more complex, um process 414 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: to do that than what is generally seen today in 415 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,399 Speaker 1: the touring business where you announced, you go on sale 416 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: relatively quickly. But there's a there's a model there for 417 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: others to follow. It sounds like data analytics on the 418 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: performers side. How do you utilize the data of your customers? Yeah, 419 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,160 Speaker 1: you know, we've been we've been looking at and investing 420 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: in data and analytics products for the better part of 421 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: six seven, eight years. Now we've got a full data 422 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: science team that's using you know, machine learning and uh 423 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,560 Speaker 1: a lot of the you know, the cutting edge technologies 424 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: to to crunch that data. Um, it's you know, it's 425 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: it's always a work in progress. And you know it 426 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: again when you get back to this this arbitrage opportunity, 427 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of incentive there for people to uh 428 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: to make it hard to determine and determine who's a 429 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: fan and who's a bot. So, uh, we're getting better 430 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: and better at it each year. It's it's not perfect, um, 431 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: but it's you know, these these are the tools that 432 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: we're investing in to make sure that we can we 433 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: can get better. We're talking with Jared Smith, who is 434 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: with Ticketmaster, and I was just asking a question about 435 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 1: h Yes, I can make the crack about, you know, 436 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,400 Speaker 1: dumpster fire nine team the Giants versus the Jets, watching 437 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: that game that was in the newspaper whatever, But there 438 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 1: were a lot of tickets sold. So my question is, 439 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: even though we make fun of winless teams like the 440 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: Cincinnati Bengals and this and that whatever, how still does 441 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: it imp packed you guys, because I still see a 442 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: lot of tickets being sold for that and be simply 443 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: because it's the NFL. Yeah, I mean there's a UM. 444 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: You know, we're fortunate to work in a in a 445 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: business that UM is extremely resilient. Live entertainment has never 446 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: been more popular if you look at any uh, any 447 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: category of of market growth. Is it recession proof? Recession resistant? 448 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: What's the right terminology for sports and recession? I've I've 449 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: heard it many ways. What do you say? Yeah, I 450 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: think it's I think it's certainly resistance. UM is as 451 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 1: far as we've seen, and even even if you look 452 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: back you know two thousand and eight. Um, you know, 453 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,400 Speaker 1: the beauty of the businesses, it's it tends to be 454 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: balanced in a way that sometimes you know, when you 455 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: have a slower touring year, you might have an upper 456 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: sports here and in vice versa. So it's pretty diversified, 457 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:55,159 Speaker 1: both in terms of genre, industry, vertical or or certainly international. Um. 458 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: This year happened to be, UM, you know, a great 459 00:23:58,000 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 1: year for us from a music perspective in Europe as 460 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: an example. UM. So you get you get a lot 461 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: of diversity of the business in that way. But you know, 462 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 1: sports in particular is you know, I think that a 463 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: lot has been made of you know, our ore is 464 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: the is the TV experience so great these days that 465 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's making people stay at home as 466 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: opposed to to go to the go to the venue. 467 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: And we just don't see that at all. UM. I 468 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: think you see people going in in different ways. People 469 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: value flexibility. UM. Teams are doing great jobs and recreating 470 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 1: season ticket products with more flexible plans and more flexible offers. 471 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: That leads me into one thing though that I've heard 472 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: from the number of owners and team ceo s they 473 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: ask about their fan satisfactions. What are the things everybody 474 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 1: is concerned about is ingress and egress and egress what 475 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: obviously have more to do with parking, but ingress is ticketing. 476 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: I don't think we can talk about ticketing without talking 477 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: tech totally. So where are we, what are we doing, 478 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: what's next? How's it working? Because streaming services are learning 479 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: that this is so easy, we have our problems and 480 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: once again that'll come back on you. Yeah, no for sure. UM, 481 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,360 Speaker 1: And in the experience that you have at the gate, 482 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,120 Speaker 1: is is most often associated with with us because that 483 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, the logo that's on that ticket generally when 484 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: you're going to do a game or thing doesn't beat UM, 485 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,680 Speaker 1: which is why we've we've really leaned into that. So 486 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, I said earlier that UM that we've got 487 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: two core We've got a core problem that we're trying 488 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: to solve in two ways, one of which is pricing, 489 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: the other which is is controlling the inventory. UM. Generally speaking, historically, 490 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: the problem with a ticket is that it is completely anonymous, 491 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: UH and highly transferable outside of any visibility of the 492 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: content holders. So a static barcode on a piece of 493 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: paper can be xerox or screenshot and sold on the 494 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: secondary market, and when you show up for Jets Giants 495 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: in there's sixty people in the stadium. The content holder 496 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: knows who they sold those tickets to, but they don't 497 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: actually know who's in the venue. UM. We've tried to 498 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: take advantage of leaning into the clear consumer desire to 499 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: make ticketing easier from the time I buy to the 500 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 1: time that I enter on a mobile device UM to 501 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: change that experience. And that's what Safe Takes really was about, 502 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: was not just taking a static barcode in putting it 503 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: on a phone, but taking the phone in the same 504 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: way that you have that tied to somebody's identity that 505 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: is secure and safe and then can be personalized UM. 506 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: In the same way that you use your payment is 507 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 1: tied to your phone and therefore to your identity. We've 508 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: done the same thing with ticketing UM and I'll use 509 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: the NFL is the example because they've really been out 510 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: front of this of this change. But in two years 511 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: that we went all digital last season and then we 512 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: went basically all Safe Takes, which is all dynamic you know, 513 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: identity based ticketing UM. You know, we're seeing the top 514 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: top end of the range the Minnesota Vikings are seeing 515 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: nine entry on mobile devices weekend week out. The entire 516 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 1: league is now at sixty six on average, and it 517 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: ranges from you know, fifty to to you know, high 518 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: forties to. That changes almost everything about the possibility of 519 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: the team understanding who's there, UM notifying them. Not only 520 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: do I do I know that when Jared's phone comes in, 521 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: Jared's actually there, But now I have a device that 522 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: I can communicate to them on whether it's you know, 523 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: something happens, or there's a Amber alert and somebody's lost child. 524 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: I can send a text alert to everybody in there. 525 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: I can do that. I can I can create custom promotions, 526 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: get your predictive analytics. Bar wants its two hot dogs 527 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: in Minnesota didn't announcement. Before we wrap it up, I 528 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: want to ask you that is there something being lost 529 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: in that paper ticket keepsake? Do people want it? People 530 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: absolutely want it? UH and and we aim to We 531 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: aim to to to solve that. I think you'll see 532 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: us UH start to roll out in the next twelve 533 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,919 Speaker 1: months or less some commemorative ticket options. UM. You know, 534 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's a keepsake like unlike any other right 535 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: the drawer that you have or the bulletin board. Uh, 536 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: live events are some of the greatest memories of your 537 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,679 Speaker 1: first state. Or you know, I grew up, you know, 538 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: the youngest of five boys, and we'd make a pilgrimage 539 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: every summer directly field, Like I have those ticket stubs 540 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: from those Cub games going all the way back right 541 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: bar has the first world service to be for the 542 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: Cubs third base. Yeah, I got the baseball, but but yeah, 543 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,679 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely part of it, and we don't want 544 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: to lose the nostalgia of that. It's it's something special 545 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: about the business. Warrand Andre And I don't want to 546 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: make sure that I asked you. Back in two thousand ten, 547 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: when Live Nation and Ticketmaster merged, you guys were giving 548 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: a ten year consent decree essentially to play nice with 549 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: your rivals. You know, we're coming up on the point 550 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: where that expires. I believe in a couple of Senators, 551 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: Richard Blumenthal and Amy Klobasch are announced in August. I 552 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: think that they that they wanted a kind of a 553 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: look into kind of the dynamics in the ticketing world. 554 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: Is that worrisome for Ticketmaster? They're certainly not the first 555 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: politicians to to to call for you know, looking into 556 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: this world kind of how how do you guys receive 557 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: You've you know, announcements like that. Yeah, I mean, look, 558 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 1: we we take our our obligations under the consent Decree 559 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: extremely seriously. UM. It's it's something that's been part of 560 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: our culture and our DNA to make sure that people 561 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: understand what those obligations are and that we um that 562 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: we uh continue to operate the business and in the 563 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: best way possible in the and with the most integrity 564 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: and otherwise. Um, you know, we we have had, uh, 565 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: in any given year, we're signing thousands and thousands of 566 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,400 Speaker 1: renewals or new contracts, and the d O j UM 567 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 1: has has certainly, you know, continue to monitor that progress. 568 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: They've asked some questions about a handful of of those deals, 569 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: but UM, it's not concerning to us because we we 570 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: know how we operate the business and uh and in 571 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: the end I think that will that will prove itself out. 572 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: So um. So yeah, on a letter note, when we 573 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: do our first live show, we're going to give you 574 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: a call to see if you can you guys can 575 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: handle the tickets for us we're on board. We're on board, 576 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: and all the family member demand. I know my family 577 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to come bar yes, the scene. We can 578 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 1: do some some tiered pricing for the one in the 579 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: first row as an astronomical number, and everybody else comes 580 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: in free. Jared Smith, president of Ticketmaster, thanks so much 581 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: for sharing thoughts. Thanks for having me us. He's a 582 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: cool guy. I like him now. I've also learned that 583 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: there is no such term with Ticketmaster as scalpers. I 584 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: thought that was just a common term, but apparently think 585 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: it is. I think, in you know, the current climate, 586 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: we we just don't use it. The re sale. It's 587 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: a secondary market. My takeaway is I don't want to 588 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: be standing next to him at a cocktail party. You know, 589 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: you just you just say at the Ticketmaster cocktail party. 590 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: He he says, it's the same two things. One what's 591 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: with the fees? And I'm glad he's sort of explained 592 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 1: that because I've always wondered who gets to blame, Like 593 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,000 Speaker 1: I I would chattel all of my disdain of the 594 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,040 Speaker 1: fees towards Ticketmaster. So they actually have good reason to 595 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: try and change the model, which I'm glad to know. 596 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: They are and then number two. Of course it's sort 597 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: of the same thing that you know, we get sometimes 598 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: and can you get me tickets? Yeah, I just like them. 599 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: That's funny, it actually happens. The two things that I 600 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: would think happened to Jared Smith at a cocktail party 601 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: actually do. Yeah, my takeaway, you know, he mentioned, you know, 602 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 1: it's one of the unique things about this ticket industry, 603 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: the the US resale market eight billion dollars a year, 604 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: which is this tremendous arbitrage opportunity that really, I mean 605 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: exists in other industries, but is is very stark here. 606 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: And and the things that Ticketmaster is doing to counter that, 607 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 1: and also the kind of the difference between the way 608 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: tickets are priced in sports versus in concerts. He made 609 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 1: it very clear that you know, NBA teams, NFL teams, 610 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: hockey teams, baseball teams, they do a much better job 611 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: of pricing to the market, you know, having a wide 612 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: variety of inexpensive all the way up to very expensive tickets. Uh. 613 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: And there may be a lesson there for concert acts 614 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: and musicians feel better to be number one than number five. 615 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: Word a number. Because of Mike, we have a chance 616 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 1: to go for three in a row. Kids numbers at 617 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,520 Speaker 1: a good time. When I first started wearing the number, 618 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: I would just happy in Floomberg Business of sports, the 619 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: number of the week, number of the week. I'm gonna 620 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: give you a hand. It's about a retirement. The number 621 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: is number of times Thomas Berditch lost, Nadal or fed. 622 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 1: Before and I were discussing the Thomas Berdics announcement this 623 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: this morning, he's just saying the perennial Corty quarterfinal Ulster. Yeah, 624 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: well he would be in the equivalent if you were 625 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 1: a wrestling fan growing up. You liked wrestling, didn't you 626 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: remember s D Special delivery Jones. That was back when 627 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: it was wrastling wrastling, So he would always be a contender. 628 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: But st never won. He never quite got into the 629 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, yeah, he's got a chair. He 630 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: lost again, Thomas Burdis was st Special delivery jobs. Well, 631 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,440 Speaker 1: that's not it. Retirement wrong retirement by people will like 632 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: the reference. I like the reference though. Uh, Jimmy Johnson, 633 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: I knew I he didn't say any because I knew 634 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: he's retiring into end. That's right. He is one. I 635 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: wanted to let him go in the legend right, yeah, yeah, yeah, seventh, 636 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 1: Well he know he's won the championships INtime, That's what 637 00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: I said. And also the seventh time winner, I said, okay, alright, 638 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: also very fast marathon er, Jimmy Johnson. You're resident there 639 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: for York resident. Yeah, you have been listening the Bloomberg 640 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Business of Sports. We're here each and every week at 641 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: the same time, bless online wherever you get your podcast, 642 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: you can catch those Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, including an 643 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: extra extended version of our interviews. I'm Michael Bar on 644 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: Twitter at Big Bar Sports. I'm Evan Novie, Williams at 645 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: nov Underscore, Williams up Scott sash Nick. You can follow 646 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: me on Twitter at sash Nick. Thank you very much 647 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: for joining us, and please tune in next week when 648 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: we once again and speak with the biggest and brightest 649 00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: in the sports business industry. You are listening to Bloomberg 650 00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: Business of Sports Bloomberg Radio around the world.