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Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous Historians, We're back with this week's classic episode,

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Speaker 1: Riddle me this, nol. What's more, what is the height

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Speaker 1: of fame? Because I think it's not just having a

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Speaker 1: mansion or a castle, or a jet or you know,

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Speaker 1: fish and Portuguese onions. I think it's when you make

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Speaker 1: enough money to have a doppelganger.

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Speaker 2: Ah, is that what you're shooting for? Ben, I don't

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Speaker 2: know you want a body dub.

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Speaker 1: I'm into body dubs right now. That's so Williamsburg. Oh

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Speaker 1: you like dubstep, I like body dubs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 3: No, No, it is definitely a flex. As anyone never

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Speaker 3: told you that you resemble a celebrity. Well, perhaps you

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Speaker 3: may have a second career as a body double. It

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Speaker 3: would be quite the fascinating job, that's for sure. And

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Speaker 3: we have a story in today's episode of real life

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Speaker 3: examples of body doubles from World War Two to more

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Speaker 3: recent and quite surprising events.

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Speaker 1: Let's roll the tape. Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thanks for tuning in.

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Speaker 1: If you are like most people on the planet, at

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Speaker 1: one point or another, someone has said, hey, you know

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Speaker 1: what you really look like insert person here x. It's

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Speaker 1: also it's also often said that everyone on the planet

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Speaker 1: statistically has a doppelganger.

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Speaker 2: A doppel who's your doppel ben?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, nol I get. I get a lot

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Speaker 1: of references, many of which are completely woosh moments to me.

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Speaker 1: But I think I just have to accept the fact

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Speaker 1: that a lot of people look like me. Really. Yeah, Well, you.

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Speaker 3: Get a lot of like looks of recognition that you

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Speaker 3: then have to process and realize, like, Okay, is this

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Speaker 3: real or is this someone imagining that I am someone

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Speaker 3: who they think I might be, but I'm actually not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question because like a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: for instance, when they say, hey, you look like this

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Speaker 1: other person, they're not. They're not looking at the entirety

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Speaker 1: of the face or the body, or the appearance or

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Speaker 1: the voice. They're looking at a specific maybe a facial

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Speaker 1: feature like a beard for instance. That happened to you, right?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 3: Do you know how many people with beards I get

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Speaker 3: compared to? And the thing that's so weird is it's

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Speaker 3: their body type or any other quality completely irrelevant if

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Speaker 3: they have a bushy beard or some sort of well,

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Speaker 3: quaffed face mane you know like me, then we're the

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Speaker 3: same person. This is call it beard blindness. Have I

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Speaker 3: mentioned beardlin that's great like.

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Speaker 1: Face blindness, but beards that's great, man, that's it was

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Speaker 1: like a real thing, A brief anecdote for me, just

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Speaker 1: how tricky it can be. I had a long time

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Speaker 1: ago there was this store I used to go to,

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Speaker 1: this Asian grocery store called First Oriental. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: down the street from the Farmer's Market into cab and

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Speaker 1: I used to go there all the time to pick

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Speaker 1: up various things I would use when I was I

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Speaker 1: was cooking at home, and me and the lady was

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Speaker 1: like the proprietor got to know each other pretty well

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Speaker 1: sort of. And then one day she said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: you know who you look like? And I said, I

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Speaker 1: don't know who. I was very interested, and she said

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Speaker 1: Bradley Cooper, which is just fundamentally false. The only thing

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Speaker 1: me and that guy have in common is maybe one

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Speaker 1: or two mutual friends, and the fact that we both

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Speaker 1: have brown hair and maybe are genetically similar.

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Speaker 2: Well, you're both smolderingly good looking.

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Speaker 1: That's so kind man, thank you.

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Speaker 2: And just to have to back you up here. Ben's

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Speaker 2: not humble bragging there.

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Speaker 3: Bradley Cooper is in fact the closest best personal friend

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Speaker 3: of our boss Connel Burn.

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Speaker 1: That's true. We can mention that on Let's come up Okay, yes,

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Speaker 1: yeah he is. He is with us defending the show

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Speaker 1: against the tyranny of Sheryl Crow.

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Speaker 2: Do you think Bradley Cooper has a body double?

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Speaker 3: Ben?

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Speaker 2: Just you know, for walking around times.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Definitely for do a shopping for him.

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Speaker 1: Definitely for characters and roles he plays. As an actor,

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Speaker 1: A lot of actors have body doubles for stunts or

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Speaker 1: for intimate romantic scenes, but.

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Speaker 2: They don't have to look the same in the face.

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Speaker 3: They mainly just have to be able to look the

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Speaker 3: same in profile, or like from behind or like from

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Speaker 3: a long shot.

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Speaker 1: Right Like when you see photographs of stunt doubles next

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Speaker 1: to their actors. It's it's kind of an uncanny Valley thing,

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Speaker 1: for sure, And occasionally it's a I'll say it, occasionally

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Speaker 1: it's a real life version of that. We have blanket

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Speaker 1: home meme.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know what I'm talking about, Ben, It's I'll

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Speaker 3: send to you some Okay, I'll send youseth.

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Speaker 1: For now we know that you are the real Nol Brown.

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Speaker 1: I am the real Ben Bolan. So far as we know,

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Speaker 1: there are no body doubles involved here.

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Speaker 2: I refuse to stand up though, sir, right, And.

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Speaker 1: We know that our super producer, Paul Mission controlled decand

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Speaker 1: is himself the one, the only, except no substitutions. But

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Speaker 1: today you and I are talking about real life body doubles,

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Speaker 1: not someone who just is a victim of beard blindness now,

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Speaker 1: not someone who vaguely looks like some other person with

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Speaker 1: brown hair.

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Speaker 3: Not the way Casey Pegram, super producer Casey Pegram has

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Speaker 3: a secret life in France as some sort of criminal

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Speaker 3: mastermind known as LaBouche.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's an alternate identity right now.

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Speaker 2: That's the same thing as a body double.

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Speaker 1: Right He's one guy with two identities that we know of.

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Speaker 1: A body double would be two seven real people who

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Speaker 1: share at least publicly a single identity.

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Speaker 3: And specifically, today we're talking about political body doubles, which,

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Speaker 3: as it turns out, are pretty rare. Yes, it's a

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Speaker 3: pretty short listical episode, but all of them are nice

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Speaker 3: and beefy. A lot of good info out there, But

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Speaker 3: the ones that we do know of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we brought the juice and we wanted to be

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Speaker 1: sure that we didn't get lost in some quagmire speculation

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Speaker 1: real quick to set this up. You know why they're

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Speaker 1: increasingly rare, right, No, it's because of the rise of

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Speaker 1: photography and video. So you know, back in the thirteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: someone could walk up with a letter and say, this

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Speaker 1: is a letter signed by someone else you've never met.

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Speaker 1: That's say, I am, you know, the Archduke of Hamington Sandwich,

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Speaker 1: which is maybe I'm paraphrasing.

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Speaker 2: You must be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, there's actually a story I heard through another

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Speaker 3: show that I'm working on in the music space. I

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Speaker 3: guess about how I think it was the Supremes, or

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Speaker 3: maybe it was the Commodores, a very influential, famous band

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Speaker 3: from that era, had a body double version of the

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Speaker 3: band that would tour simultaneously, so they could literally have

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Speaker 3: two versions of the show on the road at the

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Speaker 3: same time.

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Speaker 1: That's crazy, dude. That reminds me of Morgan Freeman's voice double.

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Speaker 1: We talked about this before, I think, right, maybe not

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Speaker 1: on errow. Maybe we're just hanging out. So Morgan Freeman

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Speaker 1: has a voice double, and you know he's got such

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Speaker 1: an iconic, iconic resonance to his voice, a lot of

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Speaker 1: people want him to do a read for a commercial

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Speaker 1: or a cause or whatever. And apparently the story goes,

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Speaker 1: I'd love if someone can confirm this. The story goes

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Speaker 1: that he has two different kind of pricing structures. One

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Speaker 1: is if you can afford the actual Morgan Freeman, but

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Speaker 1: if you want the more economical choice. Word on the

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Speaker 1: street is he has like he officially co signs some

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Speaker 1: other guy to do Morgan Freeman voices. So it's crazy

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Speaker 1: can't get the real mf you can go for the

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Speaker 1: next best thing.

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Speaker 3: I'm not trying to dog on voice actors because I

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Speaker 3: know it's definitely you know, it requires some skill, but

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Speaker 3: specifically what Morgan Freeman does, where he basically just is

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Speaker 3: Morgan Freeman all the time, that's kind of the height

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Speaker 3: of laziness. Like it's already an easy gig just to

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Speaker 3: be Morgan Freeman on Mike and read some ad copy

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Speaker 3: about credit card or something. But to have somebody else

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Speaker 3: kind of sub in for you and get the bargain

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Speaker 3: basement price. I don't know how I feel about that.

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Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman capitalism, baby roll the dice Yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: This is such a tangent, but there's also you know,

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Speaker 1: it leads us to one of those great divisions of actors.

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Speaker 1: A lot of a list amazing American actors are pretty

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Speaker 1: much themselves in films. Christopher Walken, al Pacino, I'll say it.

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Speaker 1: Keanu Reeves, who seems like a tremendous guy.

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Speaker 2: Sure does.

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Speaker 1: So they have stunt doubles, but that's different. As you said, Nol,

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Speaker 1: getting to the point of our show, we do have

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Speaker 1: a point today, there are political body doubles. They are

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Speaker 1: much less common perhaps then fiction would have led us

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Speaker 1: to believe. So we'd like to go through a few

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Speaker 1: of these and get your take along the way. The

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Speaker 1: first one was a surprise to me. I was not

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Speaker 1: very familiar with this historical character. General Bernard Montgomery, known

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Speaker 1: as Monty to his friends, had a real life body

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Speaker 1: double named M. E. Clifton James. But why did he

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Speaker 1: have a body double? Right, he's a general. That's a

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Speaker 1: big deal, so maybe it's military related.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's true, so must call him Monty because

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Speaker 2: we're friends were familiar. Monty was a very influential general

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Speaker 2: who was responsible for a lot of the logistical planning

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Speaker 2: that went into the D Day invasion of Normandy, you know,

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Speaker 2: the big one. So they found it.

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Speaker 3: They as an I five found it to be a

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Speaker 3: high priority to make sure that this guy was protected

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Speaker 3: in every sense of the word. Ah.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because this is deep in the propaganda front of

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Speaker 1: the war. Both the Allied and Axis forces are trying

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Speaker 1: to trick one another with the publication of fake plans.

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Speaker 1: They're trying to lay some red herrings and mislead their opponents. So,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Noel m I five, I five says,

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Speaker 1: this guy's a valuable asset. He's instrumental to D Day

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Speaker 1: and other events and will will need him alive and

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Speaker 1: at the top of his mental game. But he's just

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Speaker 1: one man. And that's when they run into a man

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Speaker 1: named M. E. Clifton James. Emmy Clifton James is not

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Speaker 1: a general.

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Speaker 2: He's not even British.

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Speaker 1: He is an Australian actor. Yes, And so I five

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Speaker 1: approaches him and they say, okay, we need you to

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Speaker 1: do us as solid. We have a special mission for you.

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Speaker 1: You are going to dress like General Montgomery, you are

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Speaker 1: going to act like General Montgomery, and you were going

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Speaker 1: to travel around northern Africa, right publicly talking about Allied

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Speaker 1: plans within the earshot of Nazi spies who don't think

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Speaker 1: we've discovered them yet. So act like this guy, act

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Speaker 1: like Montgomery and walk around saying total fake malarkey plans.

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Speaker 1: Just be like, you know how truly put in all

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Speaker 1: of our forces in Lithuania.

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Speaker 3: This reminds me of the story we did about poujel Lia,

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Speaker 3: the operative for the British Intelligence Agency who planted fake

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Speaker 3: stories with the Germans.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, just so very very similar tactic.

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Speaker 1: We had somebody who write this very nice thing on

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Speaker 1: Instagram about that too recently.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's pretty cool these people post like cool history

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Speaker 3: pictures and little captions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good idea. A shout out to History

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Speaker 1: with Astro Astro who said that they really enjoyed our

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Speaker 1: account of Agent Garbo, which was one of that guy's

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Speaker 1: many nicknames. And you and I both looked through this account.

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Speaker 1: I really enjoy the different snapshots that History with an

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Speaker 1: Astro takes, you know, little vignettes for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yes, there's a lot of those kind of accounts footing

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Speaker 3: around these days, and this one does a really good job.

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Speaker 3: So back to James, here's the thing. There was a

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Speaker 3: one little kink here. James had a missing finger, he

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Speaker 3: lost it during World War One, and he had a

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Speaker 3: prosthetic that would help him pass for Monty, you know,

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Speaker 3: and pull off the subterfuge.

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Speaker 1: As long as he did have to type something right exactly.

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Speaker 3: And James actually wrote an autobiography called I Was Montes's Double,

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Speaker 3: where he said that the Nazis were so completely taken

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Speaker 3: with his subterfuge, with his imitation, that they actually were

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Speaker 3: considering assassinating him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So here's specifically what he was spreading, and

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Speaker 1: here's how successful he was. According to his own autobiography,

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Speaker 1: he had propagated the idea that the Allied troops would

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Speaker 1: be coming from southern France, So the German forces moved

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Speaker 1: a ton of their troops to southern France because that's

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Speaker 1: where they thought the evasion would be based rather than Normandy.

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Speaker 1: So this worked. It's kind of tough to say how

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Speaker 1: much of a sway his actions his secret mission had

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Speaker 1: on German forces, but they definitely did play a part. Now,

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Speaker 1: this con this duplicity was pretty complicated because the best

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Speaker 1: way to teleconvincing falsehood is to make it very, very

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Speaker 1: closely related to the truth. It has to have a versimilitude, right,

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Speaker 1: and this meant that James had to be a full

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Speaker 1: on method actor sometimes in ways he did not appreciate.

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Speaker 1: I five told him that he could not drink booze

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Speaker 1: and he could not smoke tobacco because Montgomery didn't do that.

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Speaker 1: So it could blow the whole thing wide open if

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Speaker 1: you catch General Montgomery out back in an alleyway, you know,

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Speaker 1: sneakily puffing on something. And additionally, the General did like breakfast,

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Speaker 1: but he did not eat eggs, and he did not

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Speaker 1: eat pork, and he had kind of a spartan diet,

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Speaker 1: so he wouldn't use milk or sugar as porridge. So

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Speaker 1: all of that is out for James. He has to

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Speaker 1: become this other person like Dennis Reynolds says and always

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Speaker 1: sunny in Philadelphia to live within his skin.

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Speaker 3: Indeed, went full Leo on that business. So this whole

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Speaker 3: operation was referred to as Copperhead. And it was conceived

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Speaker 3: in January of nineteen forty four when Brigadier Dudley Clark

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Speaker 3: saw a movie that inspired him, a movie called Five

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Speaker 3: Graves to Cairo.

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Speaker 1: Right right, This actor Miles Mander Dudley Clark sees him

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Speaker 1: playing a British officer and he thinks, well, heck, that

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Speaker 1: guy looks a lot like General Montgomery. This is a

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Speaker 1: different guy from Emmy James. Here's how it goes down,

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Speaker 1: he says, Dudley that is, says this guy will be

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Speaker 1: a great body double, and so he develops this concept.

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Speaker 1: But then they meet a huge snag. They arrange a

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Speaker 1: meeting with Miles Mandarin in person, and then they say,

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Speaker 1: oh no, way too tall, way too tall. General Montgomery,

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Speaker 1: you see, is a bit bantam. He is five foot

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Speaker 1: six bantam.

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Speaker 2: You say, what does that mean?

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Speaker 1: Technically it means kind of a small chicken, but.

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Speaker 2: It's also a weight class in boxing, U huh.

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Speaker 1: Bantam weight. It also uses is slangly used to refer

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Speaker 1: to people of diminutive stature with combative disposition.

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Speaker 3: It's a vocabulary corner with then and all bantam. I

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Speaker 3: love that word. So, yeah, dude's a little short, he's

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Speaker 3: a little prince like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah sure yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh So they say, Okay, that's not going to work.

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Speaker 1: Everyone will clock that immediately if they meet him in person,

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Speaker 1: and a true body double has to be effective in person,

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Speaker 1: so they can't find any other actors, and they think

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Speaker 1: maybe this, maybe it's just not in the cards for

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Speaker 1: us to pull off this coup. Until that is a

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Speaker 1: guy named Stephen Watts, who's an mi I five officer.

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Speaker 1: Happens across a photo of a British Army lieutenant named

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Speaker 1: Emmy Clifton James who is dressed as the General for

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Speaker 1: a stage show.

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Speaker 3: Weird, weird, so many weird little happenstancey things that happen here.

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Speaker 3: And this guy was sort of a lesser known Australian actor,

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Speaker 3: sort of a Toast of London type character. He was

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Speaker 3: forty six, so he was you know, it wasn't happening

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Speaker 3: for him, but he had been in this production and

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Speaker 3: they He then was assigned to the Royal Army pay

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Speaker 3: Corps and was based in Leicester, not Leicester like you

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Speaker 3: think it would be pronounced when you look at it

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Speaker 3: on paper.

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Speaker 1: It's a tricky one. It's a really but it's like

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Speaker 1: Worcester in Massachusetts.

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Speaker 3: But it's almost like, I think I'm still gonna get

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Speaker 3: yelled at even though because I said it wrong. Even

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Speaker 3: though I said it right, I said that I wanted

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Speaker 3: to say wrong. And that's just as bad as saying

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Speaker 3: it wrong. Nah man lean into it all right. It's

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Speaker 3: a living language. So Leicester is Ray's base working for

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Speaker 3: the Army, Royal Army pay Corps. And he kind of

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Speaker 3: did little side gigs as as an actor on the

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Speaker 3: you know, when he wasn't when he had free time.

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Speaker 2: M h that Watts and Clark made this happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. Stephen Watts and Dudley Clark put

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Speaker 1: this operation Copperhead into motion and it worked. As we said.

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Speaker 1: Emmy James had to go full Daniel day Lewis and

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Speaker 1: assume the role of Montgomery. It wasn't super pleasant for him,

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Speaker 1: but by gosh, by golly, by gummy, he did it

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Speaker 1: and pulled it off successfully. This was This was admitted

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Speaker 1: by General Montgomery himself. On May eighth, nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: Emmy Clifton James died. He was sixty five years old.

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Speaker 1: When the General received word, he said, he performed a

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Speaker 1: very useful had a very dark time of the wool.

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Speaker 1: What he did completely fooled the Germans.

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Speaker 2: Is that your Churchill voice?

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Speaker 1: It's no, no, No, Churchill voice is way more RiPP roar.

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Speaker 1: Is it offensive?

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Speaker 3: That's just sort of your General British official voice, and

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Speaker 3: you'll notice this guy's voice changed.

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Speaker 1: He's got two different voices here. Yeah, so the General

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Speaker 1: totally co signs this. But we have to ask ourselves.

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Speaker 1: Did he completely fool the Germans? It would seem so

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Speaker 1: for his part. Yeah, But this was one of several

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Speaker 1: other operations going on.

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Speaker 3: Because again our guy Poujol was heavy, heavily involved in

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Speaker 3: this kind of campaign of deception as well. There was

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Speaker 3: another operation, but they were happening in tandem because both

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Speaker 3: revolved around D Day and the planning of D Day

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Speaker 3: and making sure the Germans did not know where it

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Speaker 3: was going to happen, absolutely where they were going to

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Speaker 3: invade on the beach.

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Speaker 1: So on a one to ten success scale for this

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Speaker 1: body double the Stoppelganger, I gotta say man a ten,

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Speaker 1: especially considering that he had to wear a fake finger

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Speaker 1: and he still pulled it off. How did that work out?

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Speaker 1: Where they just like the General doesn't shake.

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Speaker 2: Hands exactly, all right, that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Howie Mandel doesn't shake hands.

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Speaker 2: He's a notorious germophobe, right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a fist bumper all day. So this is

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Speaker 1: one of those rare cases of a proven, documented, successful

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Speaker 1: body double, but it's not the only one. We'll stay

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Speaker 1: roughly within the same time period, give or take a

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Speaker 1: few decades, and let's travel across the Iron Curtain. No,

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Speaker 1: why are we going to Russia for the next story.

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Speaker 3: Why wouldn't we? We've both been watching Chernobyl. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it seems like an obvious place to go, seems like.

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Speaker 1: A great place. It's a it's a learning opportunity, it

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Speaker 1: really is.

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Speaker 3: No another famous body double, or one that we know of,

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Speaker 3: at least was one belonging to I guess you could

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Speaker 3: say Joseph Stalin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Joseph Stalin, one time leader of the Union

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Speaker 1: of Soviet Socialist Republics or USSR, and by.

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Speaker 3: All accounts a real pill, a real pill and nearing

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Speaker 3: the end of his life, especially very paranoid. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it seems like Soviet culture sort of engenders that overall,

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Speaker 3: like with the KGB and everyone feeling like they're followed

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Speaker 3: and tapping phones and what do they say, confirm.

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Speaker 2: Or trust but verify.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's sort of the doctrine of the KGB or

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Speaker 3: of like Russian intelligence in general. So it basically means

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Speaker 3: trust no one.

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Speaker 1: So there's so many strange facts about this guy. First off,

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Speaker 1: we still have people arguing about when his actual birthday is.

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Speaker 1: He was born in Joseph Visyyanovich Jugashvili and I am

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Speaker 1: woefully mispronouncing that. And then when he was thanks Tilt

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Speaker 1: for that slow clap. And then when he was in

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Speaker 1: his thirties he changed his name to Stalin because it

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Speaker 1: means man of steel.

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Speaker 2: Got a nice ring to it.

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Speaker 3: The balls on this guy, seriously, brass now steel, the

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Speaker 3: steal off the steel on this guy.

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Speaker 1: So during his time during the Second World War, he

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Speaker 1: of course became concerned that someone would attempt to assassinate

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Speaker 1: him and the predecessors of the KGB, the Soviet secret

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Speaker 1: police started recruiting people to be decoys more or less

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Speaker 1: for Stalin. So he had like a team of doubles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he had a gang. Mm hmm, he really had a Doppelgang.

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Speaker 3: That's good, Ben, that's all right. Seven out of ten.

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Speaker 3: I liked it, thank you. I would have given it

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Speaker 3: an eight point five thank you. That's very kind.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we looked into this, and the thing is

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Speaker 1: that he was given these political decoys in World War Two.

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Speaker 1: But it is widely suspected that he kept them employed

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Speaker 1: for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 3: Right, there's also some conjecture that he faked his own

400
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Speaker 3: death and that it was one of these decoys in

401
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,920
Speaker 3: his coffin, which which that would imply that he had

402
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Speaker 3: to have them killed in his place. I don't pretty

403
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Speaker 3: cold blooded. I don't think that would be a problem

404
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 3: for him. No, I don't think so either. I think

405
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Speaker 3: it would just be another Tuesday self sacrifice. But I'm

406
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 3: telling you, I'm so steeped in Chernobyl right now. To

407
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Speaker 3: serve what is it to serve the USSRU?

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Speaker 1: What was the what was there? Was that film that

409
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Speaker 1: came out maybe a year ago or so.

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00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: The Death of Stalin? That's it's fantastic, it's great. Jeff

411
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 2: is in it.

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Speaker 3: And wait does he play He doesn't play Stalin, Steve

413
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,919
Speaker 3: as Shemi plays Krushev and the whole kind of you know,

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00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 3: gimmick of the movie. It's not a gimmicky movie at all.

415
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 3: This this totally isn't an issue. Everyone just has their

416
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Speaker 3: own accent. No one uses Russian accent. Steve Bismi as

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00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,400
Speaker 3: Khrushchev sounds just like Steve Bushemy as Steve Bushmi.

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Speaker 2: It's fantastic. Yes, I recommend it so highly.

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00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 3: It's it's the guy, uh, what's his name, Ianucci, who

420
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 3: is the creator of Weep and another political series.

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Speaker 2: It's British political series.

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Speaker 3: But it's just really sharp, really funny and really disturbing,

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Speaker 3: and it really shows.

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Speaker 2: This whole culture of paranoia. I don't remember if the

425
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Speaker 2: Doubles played into it or not.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember either. I need to rewatch it. But

427
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: it totally nails that Gallows humor or the paranoia, and

428
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: it is based on fact. We could do an entire

429
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Speaker 1: episode about the weird death of Stalin now that it's

430
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Speaker 1: in question. So during his rise to power, he implemented

431
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Speaker 1: numerous murder plots against people are citizens of the Soviet Union.

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Speaker 1: Anyone who opposed him would go to a fake trial

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Speaker 1: and be executed or kangaroo court right or they would

434
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Speaker 1: just disappear. And he kind of functioned under a sort

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Speaker 1: of unfortunate self fulfilling prophecy. He was a man convinced

436
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: that he was surrounded by enemies, and his behavior create

437
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: a roster of people who very much wanted him dead

438
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: or knew that their lives would be easier if he

439
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: was out of the picture. We know for sure that

440
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 1: he had at least two body doubles that he called

441
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: political decoys, but there may have been there may have

442
00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: been many more. One one is named Rashid. That's even

443
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 1: now in twenty nineteen. That's all we know about the

444
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: guy is like his first name.

445
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

446
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,400
Speaker 3: We also know of a man named Felix Dadyev, who

447
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 3: is another of one of his body doubles who we

448
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: are aware of. And here's the thing.

449
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: It's tough to prove that any political leader used a.

450
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 3: Body dumble it is. It is because they would not

451
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 3: want that information out there. This is not something they

452
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 3: would want to broadcast. It's also kind of it's not

453
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 3: embarrassing exactly, but it certainly tips your hand. If if

454
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: it's like a known thing, it removes all effectiveness, absolutely

455
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,159
Speaker 3: all efficacy of the Yet so we did.

456
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,479
Speaker 1: We don't find out about Rashid and Felix for a

457
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: long long time. Rashid actually dies in nineteen ninety one

458
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: at age ninety three, so the double outlived the original.

459
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: But because we know more about Felix da Diev, maybe

460
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: we can explore his story a little similar to Emmy

461
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: James at least in my opinion, he was like an

462
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: actor trying to make it happen. Right.

463
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,439
Speaker 3: Oh, get this though, dude, Felix Dadev didn't even it

464
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 3: didn't come out officially that he had been one of

465
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 3: I believe the very least four of Stalin's doubles that

466
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 3: we know until April until two thousand and eight, So

467
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,160
Speaker 3: I mean, this is pretty new information.

468
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: Uh. And I believe.

469
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 3: Daddeev got permission, special permission from Putin himself to be

470
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 3: able to come out with this information for his own purposes,

471
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,400
Speaker 3: so we could like write a book about it. Yeah,

472
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 3: and he was eighty eight, so that we know about

473
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: Russia though, wouldn't you think I would have thought that

474
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: Putin would have said.

475
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: Sir, it was a different times, it was a different time.

476
00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: And also that kind of that kind of information when

477
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: it comes out is useful for them. It becomes a

478
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: situation where you want people to know. It makes someone

479
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: clever full you exactly. So Dadyev during the time that

480
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: the Second World War breaks out is an actor, an illusionist,

481
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: and a magician.

482
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: Pretty cool, Pretty cool.

483
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: So he was all set to travel to the UK

484
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: as a member of the state, singing and dance band

485
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: of Ukraine. But when the war broke out, he got

486
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,919
Speaker 1: reassigned to a concert brigade. So entertaining the troops certainly

487
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: what we.

488
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 3: Have in the States with the USO, where you know,

489
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 3: to entertain the troops, keep moral up and all of

490
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 3: that exactly.

491
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,919
Speaker 1: However, in the Soviet military, if you're a soldier, you're

492
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: a soldier. You're a soldier, meaning that he still had

493
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 1: to fight while juggling and doing magic illusions.

494
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously. Yeah, and Dancy, he had it harder than

495
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,359
Speaker 2: any of them.

496
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: He was a triple threat that was pressed into quadruple

497
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: threat status. Yeah.

498
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: And this, this, you know, eventually led to him being

499
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 3: quite badly injured.

500
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 2: In nineteen forty two.

501
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: Right during the Russian liberation of Grosny. His family is

502
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 1: notified that he has died. But here's what actually happened.

503
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: In nineteen forty three, He's flown to a small cottage

504
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: near Moscow and the Secret police tell him that he

505
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: needs to forge a new identity as Stalin's body double.

506
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,360
Speaker 2: So they're capitalizing on the fact that he's been reported

507
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: as dead.

508
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: Correct, Yeah, yeah, I mean it's great, he's a ghost

509
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: at this point.

510
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 2: M so no one's going to look for a ghost.

511
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, So he starts training to become the spitting

512
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: image of Stalin, both in appearance and behavior. The problem

513
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,160
Speaker 1: is that this guy at this point is is in

514
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: his what his mid twenties or something. Yeah, and Stalin

515
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: is sixty years old.

516
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 2: Look at the very least.

517
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 3: So they really have to implement some serious like you know,

518
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 3: prosthetics and movie magic kind of stuff to really age

519
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 3: this guy.

520
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: And so he watches repeated, repeated samples of Stalin's public speeches,

521
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: of his ambulatory habits. How he's walking is.

522
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 3: The way you hear method actors work. You know, we're

523
00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 3: like training to be portray someone in a film.

524
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: You go through.

525
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 3: Every possible archival, you know, foot piece of footage that

526
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: you can, and you learn their mannerisms. You learn the

527
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: way they move and the way that their facial expressions are,

528
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 3: any ticks that they have, you know, and he kind

529
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 3: of tells, really really interesting.

530
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: This is so wild. Okay. So his his first gig

531
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: is pretty intimidating. He is tasked to stand in for

532
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: Yosef Stalin at the Kremlin, and the idea was that

533
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: if he can convince ministers and committee leaders that he

534
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: is actually Stalin, then he can officially be employed as

535
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: a political decoy. And it worked. It worked so well

536
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: that they sent him to talk to other international leaders, right,

537
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: that's true.

538
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: He went to Yalta to meet with Franklin D. Roosevelt.

539
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 3: This is so cool that we have so much information

540
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 3: about everything that he actually did, straight from his mouth

541
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: and with the approval of the state no less. Yeah,

542
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 3: he met with Roosevelt and Winston Churchill to discuss the

543
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: reorganization of Europe after the war. And here's the thing.

544
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: He had a sort of a cross purpose here. He

545
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: was meant to be a decoy that allowed the real

546
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,479
Speaker 3: Stalin to land in Yalta and not be noticed. So

547
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,479
Speaker 3: he was sort of like a decoy in a separate plane.

548
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 3: It made his exit, and then the real Stalin was,

549
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: you know, landed elsewhere.

550
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So he said that he had had he

551
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: not impressed the chief of the Secret police or Stalin's

552
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: personal head of security details, he probably would have been shot.

553
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: He believes that because they couldn't let the political decoy

554
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 1: story be in the news at all. Even so, if

555
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: the guy was an unsuccessful audition, right, then they can't

556
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,280
Speaker 1: have him walking around looking like Stalin, knowing all these

557
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: intimate details. Because he was successful, he was forced to

558
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: sign an NDA, or non disclosure agreement that prevented him

559
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: from saying anything about his role as Stalin's body double

560
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: for decades after Stalin's death in nineteen fifty three. He

561
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: was also never able to tell his family that he

562
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: was alive. He could never tell them what he was

563
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 1: doing for the Soviet government. And this was so ironclad

564
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: that when Stalin died and they never and they needed

565
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: no more body doubles, he had to create an entirely

566
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: different identity for himself. And that's how we came to

567
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: know the musician Tom Waits.

568
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 3: Exactly funny thing too, Bene. When I think of a double, like,

569
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: I think of them as like buddies, like hanging out

570
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 3: and stuff. You know, I don't know why, And that's

571
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: where my that's where my mind goes. Yeah, not the case,

572
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 3: my friends, not the case. Felix only met Stalin one

573
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: time in his entire life, and near the end of

574
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 3: Stalin's life in nineteen fifty three. And there's a fantastic

575
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 3: article on history collection dot co that goes through a

576
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 3: lot of this chronology called The Strange Life of Joseph

577
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 3: Stalin's Body Double by Donna Patricia Ward, and she quotes

578
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 3: this from this from this meeting, saying that Stalin quote again,

579
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: this is from the autobiography quote.

580
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: Smiled and gave me an approving nod, and that was it.

581
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: I told you what I saw you, hey, man validated.

582
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: You don't want to talk to that guy?

583
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 2: No, probably not.

584
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 1: People will die, absolutely And can you imagine how I mean,

585
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: you could almost have a heart attack from being in

586
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 1: the same room with that guy and just making an

587
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: eye contact. Seriously, if he smiles and nods, that's it.

588
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: That's you got what you came for. You're a ghost.

589
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: Now disappear. Don't let him see you again. He might

590
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: change his mind. So now we've upped the stakes because

591
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: now we have a guy who has multiple body doubles.

592
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: We have one more example for today, which is much

593
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: more recent and even even goes a little past our

594
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: usual caveat. We usually try to keep things, you know

595
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: in the three Yeah, yeah, because of the gorilla. Yeah,

596
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: so we that is true. Check out our episode where

597
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 1: we pretty much spontaneously decided.

598
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 3: That yeah, I still feel good about it. I am

599
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 3: totally fine with this is the right call on our part.

600
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 3: Uh So, now we're journeying to the Middle East Rock specifically,

601
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 3: this is the story of Saddam Hussein. Like Yoso Stalin,

602
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:00,200
Speaker 3: Saddam Hussein apparently used more than one body double for

603
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: the war. Many people in Iraq said they could tell

604
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: the real Saddam from one of his multiple lookalikes, not

605
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 3: by watching him but are the person pretending to be him,

606
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 3: but by watching his bodyguards, which were around him at

607
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: all times. Yeah, and Saddam was reported to have had

608
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 3: a veritable menagerie, a harem. I don't know what do

609
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 3: you call a group of employees. None of those words apply.

610
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: Doppelgang is still.

611
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: Found, the total doppel gang. Yeah, he really did. He

612
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 3: had multi multiples while he ruled Iraq. And this is

613
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 3: according to US intelligence. So you had mentioned earlier, Ben

614
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: that there was some there were some tells that the

615
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 3: bodyguards would have that would kind of let folks know

616
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: who knew what to look for, whether they were dealing

617
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: with the real artic of the real deal, or you know, one.

618
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 2: Of these one of these copycats.

619
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

620
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if the bodyguard appeared a little too casual,

621
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: or if they appeared to laugh at jokes or something.

622
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,959
Speaker 1: A lot of Araki's took that as a tip off

623
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 1: that they were not guarding the real Saddam, because they

624
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: just they wouldn't be that chill and relax if it

625
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: was the genuine article.

626
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 2: Another tell from the Washington Times.

627
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 3: Washington Times reports an article called the fate of Saddam's

628
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 3: Lookalikes remained unknown was the fact that Saddam himself was

629
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: a big fan of close ups.

630
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 2: Very very vain guy.

631
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. This is This is

632
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: the same guy, by the way, who was a fairly

633
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 1: prolific author of romance novels.

634
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: Erotic fiction. Dare we say, yeah, which like sex mysteries.

635
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: Yes, that's it. That's one of that's one of our

636
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: new favorite idioms or expressions. We gotta, we gotta bring

637
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,880
Speaker 1: that into the fold on air. But yes, he loved

638
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: to close up. He was a bit of a ham.

639
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: The problem is that when you have a look alike,

640
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: you need to keep a distance totally.

641
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,479
Speaker 3: Eric shadows the illusion because again, this is one that's

642
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 3: much more in the era of constant around the clock,

643
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 3: twenty four hour news cycle, you know.

644
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: Right, because now we're in the digital age, and streaming

645
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: video can be transported across the planet very easily, so

646
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 1: there are more opportunities to determine whether someone is a

647
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: body double. People were so concerned about this, and I

648
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: love that you mentioned US intelligence earlier in People were

649
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: so concerned about this that when Saddam Hussein was captured

650
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three, then Defense Secretary Donald H.

651
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: Rumsfeld said, Okay, we need to figure out if we

652
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: have the real guy, you know what I mean, or

653
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 1: if we just have some hapless person who is forced

654
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: to be Saddam Hussein.

655
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: Well, surely every ready's don't we know about these doubles?

656
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 3: They wouldn't have been so hapless, right, It would have

657
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 3: been almost a privilege for me.

658
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,520
Speaker 1: It seems to be like Felix Dadiev strikes me as

659
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: someone who made a patriotic decision, So did Emmy James,

660
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:08,879
Speaker 1: so we can only imagine it would be it would

661
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 1: be similar, right. So Rumsfeld was so concerned about this

662
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: that he demanded they do DNA testing because you know,

663
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: some of these body doubles have probably spent decades at

664
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: this point mirroring the real deal totally.

665
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: And I do want to back down my previous statement,

666
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: a lot of these folks were in fact forced to

667
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: do this.

668
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: There's a film called The Devil's.

669
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 3: Double that came out in twenty eleven that kind of

670
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 3: looks at the Saddam Hussein regime through the eyes of

671
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,879
Speaker 3: a double that was meant for his son, Ude, who

672
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 3: was a real piece of work himself in his own right.

673
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, big time, and this man was forced to do this.

674
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I've seen that film. So Rumsfeld,

675
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: you know, he's so paranoid about this that he demands

676
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:04,240
Speaker 1: they collect DNA and he accepted it finally as ninety

677
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: nine point something percent proof positive that this was the

678
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 1: genuine Saddam Hussein. And he also emphasized, he said, look,

679
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: when we caught him, Saddam Hussein admitted his identity and

680
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: several of his former cabinet members confirmed he wasn't a

681
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: body double. But his body doubles were so dedicated to

682
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:32,359
Speaker 1: this job that they had undergone plastic surgery, and they

683
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: could have even had things like tattoos, bullet holes, or

684
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: moles that would make them appear to look even more

685
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,720
Speaker 1: like the leader. And as I think it's really interesting

686
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 1: that you mentioned Ude Hussein that's his oldest son, right,

687
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: so his body double the guy in real life named

688
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:57,399
Speaker 1: Latif Yahia. Y Ahia your school chums, I believe. Yeah,

689
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: they went to school, right, And then he, like all

690
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: Iraqi citizens at the time, had mandatory military service. It's

691
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: part of growing up. So in nineteen eighty eight he

692
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 1: is enlisted non consensually to be UDA's body double. And

693
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: then he said it was pretty He said Oude was

694
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: a psychopath. Yeah.

695
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 3: There's even a story where from a former Iraqi soccer

696
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,759
Speaker 3: player by the name of Shahar Haydar who said that

697
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 3: during a match with Jordan, the team lost and he

698
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 3: personally was dragged across the ground with two other players

699
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 3: and then they were forced to take their shirts off,

700
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 3: and they tied their feet together and pulled their knees

701
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: over a bar while they were on their back, and

702
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,239
Speaker 3: then they dragged them across the concrete, peeling the skin

703
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: off of their backs. And then they would force them

704
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 3: to get in a sand pit so there would be

705
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: sand in the wounds on the really really really psychotic,

706
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 3: grizzly stuff. They even made them climb a ladder and

707
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 3: jump into a vat of raw sewage with these open wounds,

708
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 3: and it was the idea that like they would, they

709
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: would do that to them until they won. Seems like

710
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:03,799
Speaker 3: really good motivation there.

711
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Uday Hussein. Writing for

712
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:13,600
Speaker 1: The Guardian, Suzanne Goldenberg looks into this guy's behavior in

713
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 1: life and he's incredibly dangerous and imbalanced. He was a

714
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: sadist with a taste for cruelty so extreme that his

715
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: father had to say, this kid is not a worthy air.

716
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: He's a real Jeoffrey Lanister type figure.

717
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: Totally yeah, one hundred percent on that. So when he

718
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: was overseeing these soccer teams, he apparently kept a private

719
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 1: torture scorecard where he would write instructions on how many

720
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: times someone should be beaten according to how they performed

721
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 1: in a losing game. He was a notorious sexual predator.

722
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 1: He would order any girl or woman who caught his

723
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: eye to be brought to his private pleasure doom. So

724
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,320
Speaker 1: this was this was a place with It was on

725
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: his father's estate, with indoor fountains, big erotic murals, HIV

726
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 1: testing facilities, and huge stashes of drugs. He had another

727
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: just straight up torture chamber secreted somewhere away on the

728
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: banks of the Tigris. He shot one of his uncles

729
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: in the leg. In nineteen eighty eight, he bludgeoned his

730
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: father's bodyguard to death in front of people at a party,

731
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: and yeah, it was just worse and worse and worse.

732
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: So I would hate to be his body double. Oh absolutely,

733
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 1: I almost would rather. I don't know, it's tough to say.

734
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: I kind of want to see the film. I have

735
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 2: not seen it. I've just read a little bit about it,

736
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 2: so I understand that.

737
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 3: It's pretty visceral and a lot of the stuff is

738
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 3: dealt with, and this person is basically like living in

739
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 3: fear of his own life. Not to ment to the

740
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 3: fact that he is being a body double for a

741
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,480
Speaker 3: man who is universally despised.

742
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, probably people gunning for him all the time.

743
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: Great point to people know that he's not the real

744
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: ude because he's not killing people parties. That's a very

745
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:06,520
Speaker 1: dubious distinction. Yeah. So eventually Oude passes away in July

746
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 1: of two thousand and three. He had already at this

747
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 1: point been imprisoned several times, been exiled several times, and

748
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: even received a kind of sort of death sentence from

749
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: his father's government. So our thoughts go out to anybody,

750
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,680
Speaker 1: especially to Latif who anybody who had to be a

751
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:32,919
Speaker 1: body double for someone that violent and destructive. And these

752
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: are so these are just three examples of real life

753
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: proven body doubles. I guess we could say four examples,

754
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 1: because you know, we're two Hussein's deep at this point.

755
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: But there are many, many more alleged body doubles.

756
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: Right. A guy named Joe R.

757
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 3: Reader, who served as undersecretary for the US Army, gave

758
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 3: an interview with Fox News in one where he kind

759
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 3: of intimated that there were some others that he knew of.

760
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 3: He said, Osama bin Laden likely have, which makes a

761
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 3: lot of sense, being that he was so doggedly being

762
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 3: hunted by the US military.

763
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 2: Uh, and also Manuel Noriega. What are some other ones been?

764
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: Well, of course there's Fidel Castro. I don't know if

765
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: I was body double level, but I did a pretty

766
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: good Castro costume one Halloween really in yester years. Yes, yeah,

767
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: I have the jacket for it in the hat. It's

768
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: mainly what it is.

769
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 3: He's need a really nice square beard, yeah, and a cigar,

770
00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 3: and I could grow I could grow beards pretty quickly.

771
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 2: Nice offensively superpower.

772
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: Dude, it's a very inconvenient superpower because I'm a guy

773
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: who likes to drink milkshakes and eat soup and I

774
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 1: just can't. Okay, I have a min's respect for you, man.

775
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: You have a great beard. I don't know if you

776
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: guys know this about my co host here, but he

777
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: has a he has a fantastic and well quoifed beard.

778
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: No, I know because of beard blindness from the top

779
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 3: of the show, remember, yeah, but we need to we

780
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 3: need to thanks for big up in my bear. Here's

781
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: some other ones that aren't body doubles. Winston Churchill was

782
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 3: reported and you could have been this guy Ben. Honestly

783
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 3: sure he could do such a good, such a good impersonation. Yeah,

784
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 3: used a voice impersonator, a man named Norman Shelley to

785
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 3: do these like again, it's sort of like what we're

786
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 3: talking about with Morgan Freeman, just kind of like laziness

787
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 3: like he did. He didn't want to do those morning

788
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 3: breakfast chats every day, so he had someone else.

789
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 2: He was probably tanked, right, yeah, hungover exactly.

790
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 3: That makes perfect sense then, an aid to Henry Kissinger

791
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 3: has been on record saying that when Kissinger went to

792
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 3: China on a secret mission to China and seventy one

793
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 3: he used an impersonator at least one time.

794
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: So is this okay? Here's my question is we had

795
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 1: earlier talked about what a what a rich person's toy

796
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 1: a blimp must be, Like you own a blimp? Yeah,

797
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: then your blimp riche You're you're blimpriche. You're frivolously possibly

798
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: offensively wealthy.

799
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:00,320
Speaker 2: Blimpridge is a funny thing to say. It sounds like

800
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 2: it's own word.

801
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: It sounds somehow like a curse work. It does, But

802
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: I love it. So I'm thinking that having your own

803
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 1: body double is another one of those rarefied luxuries of

804
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,480
Speaker 1: billionaires in the elite, you know what I mean totally.

805
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to take the blimp out to the Builderberg conference,

806
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 1: but I believe I'll send my body double.

807
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,719
Speaker 3: Here's the thing, though, it only matters if it has

808
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 3: to be you, right, Otherwise it's just called a servant,

809
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: that's true, or like an assistant or something like that. Right,

810
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: someone is to go do errands, be a runner for you.

811
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,719
Speaker 3: So you have to not only be wealthy, you have

812
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,440
Speaker 3: to kind of be pretty damn important and need to

813
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 3: have a lot of FaceTime that either you don't feel

814
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 3: like doing or that could actually put you in danger.

815
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: And there have been many other body doubles or alleged

816
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: body doubles throughout history. There was even a Mexican politician,

817
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 1: Renato Trunco Gomez, who held a national competition in twenty

818
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: fifteen to try to find the best candidates to be

819
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: as body doubles, which might defeat the purpose. And I

820
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: think in China this may still be going on. Wealthy

821
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 1: people who are sentenced to serve time in prison or jail,

822
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: they can engage in the practice of hiring what's called

823
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: a replacement convict. So you get sentenced, you get a

824
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,320
Speaker 1: guilty plea, but then you just pay someone else to

825
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: go to jail for you must be nice. I don't

826
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: want anyone to go to jail, right.

827
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 2: I hope you're a good person, Ben, You've got a

828
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 2: kind heart.

829
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: That's very that's a that's very kind of you. Just say,

830
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: and this is our episode. Look now I have to

831
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: ask you, know you don't have to, I feel compelled

832
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: to ask, do you do you have any body double

833
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: observations or doppelganger observations?

834
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: With which you agreed.

835
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,480
Speaker 1: Did someone ever say something like, hey, you know you

836
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: you kind of look like or sound like, doesn't have

837
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: to be faced. You also maybe sound like this person

838
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: you agreed and said. It wasn't just the beer.

839
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:03,960
Speaker 2: You know, it comes up a lot.

840
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 3: It's really weird. I've heard this multiple times from listeners

841
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 3: writing in. They say that I sound like Dwight from

842
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 3: the Office.

843
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 1: I've heard this.

844
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 3: I don't hear it. I don't get it, and I

845
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 3: love the Office and I like Dwight, but I don't

846
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 3: know what it is. And I've only really seen the

847
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 3: British version of the Office.

848
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: Oh, the American version is great, That's what I hear.

849
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 2: I hear great things.

850
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 1: So maybe maybe I can make a call on that

851
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: when I'm more familiar with it. But yeah, we have

852
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 1: received several emails regarding that.

853
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 3: My god, now that's not so I'm doing. I'm doing

854
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 3: job from Arrested Development. Oh yeah, I don't even know

855
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 3: who still reminds me very I'm going to say it.

856
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: I know it's not his favorite thing. Maybe aware we're

857
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 3: all kind of a big family here. How stuff works.

858
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: One of our producers, brilliant guy, friend of the show

859
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 3: and personal friend of mine named Chandler Mays always freaks

860
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 3: me out by how much he resembles the actor who

861
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 3: plays Job in Arrested Development.

862
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:57,520
Speaker 2: He does a little bit.

863
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: I can that saw so much in the face. It's

864
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 1: the swag, it's the mannerism. Yeah, yeah, it's the love

865
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,120
Speaker 1: of illusions. Very true.

866
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: It's a very big, big, big sweeping hand movements. I

867
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: agree with that. Well, this has been an episode, and

868
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 2: I think it was a pretty good one.

869
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 3: I don't know if I do say so myself. Yes, yeah,

870
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 3: I want to get too big here, and I want

871
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,439
Speaker 3: to know get too big league.

872
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: No. Yeah. When I have a meeting with the other

873
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: Ben Bolan later this weekend, and I think he'll be

874
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: he'll be really glad to know that this went well.

875
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: In the meantime, we'd like to hear from you. Do

876
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: you ever get a let's all be nice to each

877
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:38,720
Speaker 1: other on the internet? Do you ever get repeated comparisons

878
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: either in your voice, your mannerisms, or your appearance, and

879
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: if so, do you agree with that? Do you have

880
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: like do you have like thirty eight people a day

881
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,880
Speaker 1: tell you that you look like Natalie Portman? You know,

882
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: I had a long time so I had a very

883
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 1: difficult time differentiating for years Natalie Portman and Paul What's

884
00:47:58,719 --> 00:47:59,720
Speaker 1: her cure? And Knightley.

885
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that it looks similar.

886
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's on me. Maybe I have face blind.

887
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: Do you remember the show The Adventures of Pete and Pete.

888
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: I'm familiar with it.

889
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 2: And huge fan.

890
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 3: There's a character on it called Endless Mike who's kind

891
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 3: of a bully, and for the longest time I thought

892
00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:14,880
Speaker 3: that was young Sam.

893
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: Rockwell, I remember you mentioned this earlier, and then.

894
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: Some friends of some of friends of ours who are

895
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: also big fans of the show thought the same thing.

896
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: Well, maybe you're onto something. Let us know. Let us

897
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: know your favorite doppelganger look alike or body double stories.

898
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook. For Facebook,

899
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 1: we highly recommend checking out our favorite part of the show,

900
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,840
Speaker 1: your fellow listeners on our page or Ridiculous Historians.

901
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you want to find me individually on Instagram,

902
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 3: you can look me up at how Now Noel Brown And.

903
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,440
Speaker 1: If you want to find me on Instagram, I believe.

904
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: Most recently I was looking into the problematic past of

905
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: Belgian comic strips at the Belgian Comic Strip Museum. That

906
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: instagram is at ben Bowling.

907
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: If you don't want to do any of that stuff,

908
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 2: you can us an email. We do have one. It

909
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: is ridiculous at iHeartRadio dot com.

910
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,680
Speaker 3: And of course, as always, thanks to our superproducer Paul

911
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 3: I'm standing in for super producer Casey Pegram like a champ.

912
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 3: Thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme. Thanks to

913
00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 3: Gabe Lucier who helped us put this episode together research wise.

914
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks to Christopher Hasiotis. Because we just liked we

915
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 1: just like to thank him in general.

916
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 3: Jonathan Strickland, the Quizzer can go right to help. Thanks

917
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: to Jonathan Strickland.

918
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: To aka the Quizzor, thanks so much to you for listening,

919
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,359
Speaker 1: and Noel, thank you for being you. You know, if

920
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: you are a body double right now, I will say

921
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: that you are doing a top notch job. I do.

922
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,800
Speaker 2: I take my work very seriously. See you, letter folks.

923
00:50:02,600 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

924
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows