Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds, and President Trump has suggested sending Tesla
Speaker 1: vandals to prison.
Speaker 2: In El Salvador. We have such a great show for
Speaker 2: you today.
Speaker 1: Slate's Dahlia Lithwick stops by to talk to us about
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court's mixed messaging. Then we'll talk to legendary
Speaker 1: economist Paul Krugman about Trump's continued crashing up the markets.
Speaker 1: Plus we have a bonus from our YouTube channel where
Speaker 1: I discuss how Democrats can effectively lead.
Speaker 2: With The Bulwark's own Tim Miller. But first the.
Speaker 3: News my only about two months into Trump's administration. I'm
Speaker 3: tired of winning with the economy. I mean, all I
Speaker 3: see is winning everywhere.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're being a little bit ironic here me.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing a touch a sarcasm. So the markets were
Speaker 1: jubilant after Donald Trump won. There's a sort of fallacy
Speaker 1: the Republicans are always good for the market, despite what
Speaker 1: history shows. Trump has this trade war going. It mostly
Speaker 1: mimics how he feels it's on. It's off, it's on,
Speaker 1: it's off, you know, We saw this week that Laura
Speaker 1: Ingram did an interview with Trump where she asked him
Speaker 1: why he wanted to go to war with Canada.
Speaker 2: His people were not pleased.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of maga pushback, mad at her
Speaker 1: for asking the mango god king a question that wasn't laudatory.
Speaker 1: Fox is still owned by someone who is not Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: and that is a guy called Ruper Murdoch.
Speaker 2: And Rupert Murdoch.
Speaker 1: Is not the Sicka fan that Jadie Van says. So
Speaker 1: Fox Knew suddenly panics about Trump's economy as a brutal
Speaker 1: new poll hits. So Maria Bartiromo, who is the money honey,
Speaker 1: and other Fox News personalities grow unnerved about Trump's economy.
Speaker 1: A sharp observer of right wing media breaks down the
Speaker 1: real for the alarm and why it make it worse.
Speaker 1: So basically Fox News people are. They see what's happening.
Speaker 1: They see the market giving up the gains of the
Speaker 1: last two years. We see Scott Bassett, who is Trump's
Speaker 1: Treasury secretary, is supposed to have grown up in the
Speaker 1: room saying that perhaps maybe you know, a recession might
Speaker 1: be good. We might or not be good, but it
Speaker 1: might be coming, which in itself. Is very unusual for
Speaker 1: people an administration to talk about a recession, because remember,
Speaker 1: they don't want a recession, and part of a recession
Speaker 1: is you talk about a recession, you get a recession.
Speaker 1: A new NBC poll finds that Trump's approval on the
Speaker 1: economy is sinking.
Speaker 2: Instead of like he.
Speaker 1: Might have in from one point zero, instead of pausing
Speaker 1: and maybe going back and forth on the tariffs, he's
Speaker 1: actually just so emboldened that he doesn't really care voters are.
Speaker 1: They're starting to sour on the state of the economy
Speaker 1: and Trump's handling of it so far. This is reflected
Speaker 1: in this new national NBC poll, bulloyed by jubilant and
Speaker 1: unified Republicans who are starting in lockstep with Trump, the
Speaker 1: agenda and his congression leadership or pushing is not popular,
Speaker 1: and that's what we're seeing more and more. Right, and
Speaker 1: Trump's approval rating well, still higher than it's been, is
Speaker 1: the lowest for any new president, and so you know,
Speaker 1: it's slightly higher than it was in Trump one point zero,
Speaker 1: but still there was a period right after Trump won
Speaker 1: where his approval was actually shockingly good, and he's squandering
Speaker 1: that quickly by firing the federal government and using an
Speaker 1: unelected billionaire to do it.
Speaker 3: Fun stuff. Speaking of the very bad job they're doing
Speaker 3: on the economy. One of the things Howard Lutnik, who's
Speaker 3: supposed to be really helping that along it, is encouraging
Speaker 3: people to buy Tesla stock, which turns out the legality
Speaker 3: might not be so good.
Speaker 1: Yes, so Connolly calls for an investigation into Lutnik. Here's
Speaker 1: what's happening here. Lutnik went on too, he is probably
Speaker 1: going to be the first member of Trump World to
Speaker 1: get cut when they assume when they start cutting players
Speaker 1: in this team. Latnik goes on television a lot. He
Speaker 1: says a lot of really wild stuff. This time, he
Speaker 1: went on, he told people that they should buy Tesla. Now.
Speaker 2: Trump has already had.
Speaker 1: A car show event earlier on right where he was
Speaker 1: holding a little car, where he talked about how much
Speaker 1: Tesla's cost et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: But this I think.
Speaker 1: Is even more kind of beyond the pale of usual
Speaker 1: government actors. I mean, technically, Howardnik, he's the Commerce segretary.
Speaker 1: He he doesn't actually work for Elon Musk, though everyone
Speaker 1: in Trump's administration does work.
Speaker 2: For Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: Jerry Connolly, who is ranking member of the House known
Speaker 1: to be elderly, was given this job over AOC, who
Speaker 1: is known to be a really good communicator. He said
Speaker 1: that these comments violate these standards of ethical conduct, and
Speaker 1: he would like to raise alarm about this. Now, if
Speaker 1: he had someone like AOC as a ranking member of
Speaker 1: oversight and she made an allegation like this, she could
Speaker 1: go on her Instagram to her ten million plus followers
Speaker 1: and explain to them what this means. But because you
Speaker 1: have this elderly congressman who is not a good communicator,
Speaker 1: though I'm sure he's wonderful and I'm sure a lot
Speaker 1: of people felt they owed him favored so they had
Speaker 1: to vote for him, you have someone who is not
Speaker 1: a good communicator. So well, he may say this, people
Speaker 1: won't hear it because he does not have the channels
Speaker 1: to express it. So AOC could have made this a
Speaker 1: huge issue in the mainstream media and in this social media,
Speaker 1: and you know, you could have young people talking about
Speaker 1: the ethical conflicts of Howard Lutnik. But you won't because
Speaker 1: you have Jerry Connolly, who was it was his turn
Speaker 1: saying this to in a press release, that no one
Speaker 1: will ever read.
Speaker 3: So I don't know if you watched the footage of
Speaker 3: represent Harriet Hageman's town hall, but I've spent some time
Speaker 3: in Wyoming. Oddly enough, I know that wouldn't be expected
Speaker 3: of me, and that is not the behavior I expected
Speaker 3: at a Wyoming town hall.
Speaker 1: Yes, Harriet Hageman, I would like to just provide a
Speaker 1: little backstory. She occupies the one congressional seat in Wyoming
Speaker 1: that had been occupied by fierce liberal, the most liberal,
Speaker 1: Liz Cheney. You may remember, Liz Cheney, daughter of Dick Cheney,
Speaker 1: not exactly a liberal, kicked out because she was not
Speaker 1: sufficiently trumpest. She has been replaced by Harriet Hageman, who
Speaker 1: looks like a character out of Harry Potter with tiny glasses.
Speaker 1: She gave a town hall and her people were not
Speaker 1: taking it. They booed and chanted down. Her constituents were mad.
Speaker 1: She said, Doge is not dismantling social Security. Hundreds of
Speaker 1: people jeered, the crowd chanted deport elon. We have woman
Speaker 1: from the Agriculture Department, and Wyoming is a state with
Speaker 1: farmers who rely on government programs for drought and disaster relief.
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's plans to cut these programs. I mean, look,
Speaker 1: this is the problem with Doge right, this is all
Speaker 1: about tax cuts for very wealthy people, and you're cutting
Speaker 1: services so you can cut taxes for people like Elon Musk.
Speaker 1: Period paragraph. This has nothing to do with anything else.
Speaker 1: There is no financial emergency. They are cutting the government
Speaker 1: so that wealthy people can get taxes.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: So it's a hostile five hundred person craft. We're opposed
Speaker 1: to Hegeman and elements of Trump's agenda. Like, I hope
Speaker 1: there are people in Wyoming ready to run for that
Speaker 1: seat right there. You know, you don't need to be
Speaker 1: a Democrat. You can be a whatever. You could be
Speaker 1: a liberal, you could be a you know, there's a
Speaker 1: place for this.
Speaker 3: Seems like a lot of people are going to run.
Speaker 3: And it is a cook plus twenty five pv I rating.
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, but so what Yeah, No, I think
Speaker 3: an independent could do very well there.
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, go be the change. Don't wait for Chuck Schumer.
Speaker 1: Dahlia Lithwick is a senior editor at Slate and the
Speaker 1: author of Lady Justice, Women, The Law and the Battle
Speaker 1: to Save America. Welcome Back, Too Fast Politics, Dahlia, you
Speaker 1: are my friend, but also like I think of you
Speaker 1: as a sort of an oracle. I'm sorry to tell
Speaker 1: you I take no pleasure in reporting that you are
Speaker 1: an oracle.
Speaker 4: Well, i'll take it. Did that come with a parade?
Speaker 4: It does not, you in the content mills.
Speaker 1: It comes with a little tiara made of daisies that
Speaker 1: I have made for you, But they are invisible daisies. Okay,
Speaker 1: so things are looking a little bit bleak right now,
Speaker 1: but you are here to tell us why not to despair?
Speaker 4: Okay, I can do that, just kidding.
Speaker 2: Oh good, good, good, all right, I'll take it.
Speaker 4: I'm the cheerful oracle trader.
Speaker 1: Right, there's a reason we didn't have your co host,
Speaker 1: who's so smart on Mark Joseph Mark, Yes, who's like
Speaker 1: we'reng gonna die?
Speaker 4: You know, he's a broken digger. Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: So where are we right now?
Speaker 1: With the slow rolling constitutional crisis?
Speaker 4: So this has been the week, Mollie where I have
Speaker 4: decided that weirdly enough, the are we or are we not?
Speaker 4: In a constitutional crisis question is not only like wrong
Speaker 4: and like creepily horse racie, like like oh my god,
Speaker 4: can we cross the red like the red tape? And
Speaker 4: be like, yes, it's a constitutional and like listening to
Speaker 4: you know, law professors, bless their hearts, like debate this
Speaker 4: in like little Arana. I think it's not like it
Speaker 4: literally feels like it's another iteration of like campaign coverage. Right,
Speaker 4: like the minute we can hit the button in the
Speaker 4: escape room and say constitutional crisis, then we can something yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And so I am trying to refocus by saying, yes,
Speaker 4: it is clearly a constitutional crisis. When a judge says,
Speaker 4: turn the planes around and the Justice Department not only
Speaker 4: refuses to do that, but then just like literally goes
Speaker 4: into court and says he you're a dumb dumb be
Speaker 4: your verbal order from the bench doesn't count. And see,
Speaker 4: we don't have to listen to you because Trump has
Speaker 4: like boundless Article two powers like we're there, right, it's done,
Speaker 4: and we'll no more. I think as Judge Boseberg's order
Speaker 4: that has to do with this, you know, the Venezuelan migrants,
Speaker 4: as this gets sort of parsed, but I think it's
Speaker 4: fair to say we're there. So then for me, the
Speaker 4: question is what does it mean for the average American
Speaker 4: who's trying to decide whether to like go out in
Speaker 4: the streets and protest that we've crossed the ticker tape
Speaker 4: of constitutional crisis. And so what I'm trying to think
Speaker 4: about is like if we think about when democracies die
Speaker 4: in Hungary and in Poland and in Turkey and around
Speaker 4: the world, like we don't stop at the point that
Speaker 4: we've labeled something a domestic constitutional crisis. We just say,
Speaker 4: this is like an authoritarian takeover, this is a failure
Speaker 4: of democracy, and then we say to people, rather than
Speaker 4: waiting for judges to tell you that we're in that moment,
Speaker 4: like what are you going to do in that moment?
Speaker 4: So that's kind of where my head is, and I
Speaker 4: think it's not cheerful oracular talk, but I think a
Speaker 4: gentle reframe of how like waiting for Chuck Schumer to
Speaker 4: figure out whether he wants to call it a constitutional
Speaker 4: crisis can't be the play here.
Speaker 1: Yes, basically, what's the same about Trump one point now
Speaker 1: and Trump two point zero is that they continue to
Speaker 1: just completely lose in core is that right it's right.
Speaker 4: They lose overwhelmingly, they win almost never, and maybe more pointedly,
Speaker 4: they lose to Republican judges as much as they lose
Speaker 4: to right they lose because they're terrible, they're bad lawyers,
Speaker 4: and these are bad cases. And you're right, across the boards,
Speaker 4: they're getting slapped back by people who are appointed by
Speaker 4: you know, Bush and as much as they are losing
Speaker 4: to people appointed by Obama and Biden. So yes, they
Speaker 4: are the losingest losers when it comes to the raft
Speaker 4: of temporary restraining orders and permanent injunctions. Like they're losing, losing, losing,
Speaker 4: And you're exactly right. It's different from two point zero
Speaker 4: because now we are increasingly seeing two scary things. One
Speaker 4: is just flagrant violation and the other is attacking the
Speaker 4: judges personally. That used to be like Donald Trump would
Speaker 4: say it in a tweet and it would and there.
Speaker 4: Now we have this like cascade apparatus. Yeah, we got
Speaker 4: Pambondi who's also trashing judges. We've got Elon Musk who's financing.
Speaker 1: And JD Vance who's saying fuck the judiciary altogether.
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, we have the entire apparatus of the
Speaker 4: White House, and more scarily, you know, the Justice Department
Speaker 4: saying that rogue judges, you know, democratic loans should just
Speaker 4: be ignored, and that I think leads to John Roberts
Speaker 4: issuing that statement earlier this week, saying like, hey, hey, hey, hey,
Speaker 4: this is a red line. And maybe the only part
Speaker 4: of it that I would add which matters is increasing
Speaker 4: sense that judges are in danger.
Speaker 1: I was actually going to the John Roberts statement next,
Speaker 1: because so much of the sort of the thought behind this,
Speaker 1: as we know from Project twenty twenty five, as we
Speaker 1: know from the Heritage Foundation, all the stuff that they
Speaker 1: outline this summer that then and people figured out they
Speaker 1: were going to do it was like not popular. So
Speaker 1: they said, oh, we're not going to do it, and
Speaker 1: everyone was like, well, why.
Speaker 2: Would they lie?
Speaker 1: So that crew right has is hoping to get all
Speaker 1: this stuff up to the Supreme Court. Right, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the goal here, right, birth rights, citizenship. So much
Speaker 1: of this is to radically remake all of this. John Roberts,
Speaker 1: and he's made comments before, but I think the swiftness
Speaker 1: with which he made this, and again maybe I'm being
Speaker 1: overly optimistic, that's one of my priors.
Speaker 2: But my question is.
Speaker 1: It does seem like the Supremes. I mean, with the
Speaker 1: exception of Alito and Thomas, who are basically Fox News
Speaker 1: hosts at this point, they may not rubber stamp everything
Speaker 1: that's coming down the pike.
Speaker 4: I think that's right. And you know, the best evidence
Speaker 4: we have is that order that you know, very brief
Speaker 4: order that came down two weeks ago in the USAID case.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: This was, yeah, you know, a case that rocketed up
Speaker 4: to the court where the government didn't even want to
Speaker 4: honor already paid for right like contracts, it already been fulfilled,
Speaker 4: and we got ni paused to think that was five
Speaker 4: to four, right, So that's John Roberts and Amy Cony
Speaker 4: Barrett joining the liberals. That's an alarming ratio there, right,
Speaker 4: that was an easy case that should have been nine
Speaker 4: to nothing.
Speaker 2: We can't default on our dad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that contracts are contracts, right, right, you know,
Speaker 4: and then you get this like howling descent, right, like
Speaker 4: how dare this judge think that he can micro manage
Speaker 4: the government, which is exactly the language we're getting from
Speaker 4: the Trump administration. So let's be really clear. That's a
Speaker 4: knife edge kind of split. I guess the other thing
Speaker 4: I would say is you're exactly right, John Roberts, even
Speaker 4: in Trump one point, oh, was kind of famous for
Speaker 4: coming out when President Trump would go after a judge,
Speaker 4: which he did whenever he lost, and you know, name
Speaker 4: that judge and say that they were a foreigner or
Speaker 4: that they were you know, socialist or whatever. And John
Speaker 4: Roberts would make these again similarly kind of milk toasty. Hey,
Speaker 4: there's no such thing as an Obama judge and a
Speaker 4: Bush judge. Right, this is his kind of his jam.
Speaker 4: And then when he gives these annual sort of you know,
Speaker 4: New Year's Eve speeches about the state of the judiciary,
Speaker 4: he's always like, don't threaten judges and judicial independence matters,
Speaker 4: and this isn't how we do it.
Speaker 2: So I think you're right.
Speaker 4: This is of a piece with this like longstanding job
Speaker 4: he has kind of given himself, which is I shall
Speaker 4: fight for an independent judiciary and fight against attacks on judges.
Speaker 4: I think you're also right that the fact that this
Speaker 4: came down like lickety split immediately after Trump was calling
Speaker 4: for Judge Boseberg's impeachment, and the fact that it came
Speaker 4: down in the form of this kind of magisterial statement, right,
Speaker 4: he didn't like give this as a comment. He gave
Speaker 4: it as a statement, and that the sort of substance
Speaker 4: of the statement was you don't like an opinion, you
Speaker 4: appeal it up the chain. You don't like impeach the judge. Right,
Speaker 4: there's a system here. I think that I'm disinclined to
Speaker 4: read too much into what this means when these cases
Speaker 4: come to them. The merrits in no small part. And
Speaker 4: I think this is where your question started. Because the
Speaker 4: world we live in, the dismantling of the regulatory state,
Speaker 4: the like boundless theory of executive power, the you know,
Speaker 4: making it impossible to vote by doing away with the
Speaker 4: Voting Rights Act, and you know RUSHO and the cases
Speaker 4: that came after the gerrymanderin like we live in a
Speaker 4: world that John Roberts created and so correct. I think
Speaker 4: it's really really important to say, like that same kind
Speaker 4: of horse race, will he won't he John Roberts save
Speaker 4: the Republic or like you know, live in the smoldering
Speaker 4: ash heap. I think it's like really important to start
Speaker 4: the clock here on citizens united, you know, slow erosion
Speaker 4: of democracy and there's very little about the world we
Speaker 4: live in that doesn't go back to this like six'
Speaker 4: three supermajority takeover at the.
Speaker 2: COURT i, mean that.
Speaker 1: Is such a good, point so important and also, correct,
Speaker 1: right like This John, roberts goddess, here but the question
Speaker 1: Of John, roberts you know how much face heating is
Speaker 1: enough face? Heating but even, still like the thing about
Speaker 1: the idea of The Supreme court as a stop er
Speaker 1: only works if the administration is willing to follow the.
Speaker 4: Law and that's why this is kind of if you're
Speaker 4: in the sort of authoritarian jello, wrestle it almost doesn't
Speaker 4: matter if you win or, lose because if you, win
Speaker 4: you one and you get to call it My Supreme
Speaker 4: court and you get to Clap John roberts right on
Speaker 4: the shoulder at the joint. Session i'd be, like, wink,
Speaker 4: wink thanks for you for, me every.
Speaker 2: Buddy, yeah like.
Speaker 4: My, court in which case you, win and if you,
Speaker 4: lose you just say what we're already hearing About Judge,
Speaker 4: bozburg which, is but you have no authority over. Me
Speaker 4: if you have given up on the rule of, law
Speaker 4: or you only believe in the rule of law when you,
Speaker 4: win then it doesn't. Matter AND i think that this
Speaker 4: is why it's really important to see this, boundless, endless
Speaker 4: sort of monarcic construction Of Donald. Trump, right he embodies the.
Speaker 4: Law he alone is the, emperor you, know and people
Speaker 4: Like Pam bondi are saying this right like this is you,
Speaker 4: know the lawyers in the, Administration Cash pateel writes children's
Speaker 4: books about.
Speaker 2: It and SO i think it's just.
Speaker 4: Really important to understand that this theory of unbounded executive
Speaker 4: authority to do not only do what you, want to
Speaker 4: decide somebody as a terrorist without any, proof disappear them
Speaker 4: to you, know a labor camp that you basically bribed
Speaker 4: your way into having In. Salvador like this stuff is
Speaker 4: the stuff of monarchs and. Authoritarians and so you win
Speaker 4: if you, win and if the court says you can't do,
Speaker 4: it and you, say but the court is irrelevant to,
Speaker 4: me you win as. Well and that's kind of the
Speaker 4: structural posture that not only they've put themselves, in but
Speaker 4: they're trying to condition us to.
Speaker 2: Accept how do we get out of?
Speaker 4: It, Oh i'm so glad this is the oracle part
Speaker 4: ding ding.
Speaker 5: Dang, yes, yes, yes, YES i MEAN i think that
Speaker 5: this is a moment at which and my, God i've
Speaker 5: said this a thousand times to, You, molly BUT i
Speaker 5: think it's worth saying it can our.
Speaker 4: Kind of popcorn emoji wait for the courts to save us,
Speaker 4: vibe which was the wait For muller to save, us
Speaker 4: wait For Jack smith to save. Us you, Know Sonny
Speaker 4: sonomayor is going to save, us like always thinking that
Speaker 4: the definition of democracy is that these checks and, balances
Speaker 4: one of them will kick in.
Speaker 2: And save, us, Right they're not going to.
Speaker 4: Exactly that's WHY i think constitutional crisis is just too
Speaker 4: narrow an. APERTURE i think we have to, say, wait,
Speaker 4: wait wait WHEN i look, back like power in here
Speaker 4: is in the. People it doesn't in here In Judge,
Speaker 4: boseburg although he is the guardian of. It it doesn't
Speaker 4: inhere IN. Aoc it is. Us and that's WHY i
Speaker 4: think it's incredibly. Important and we're seeing really good data
Speaker 4: suggesting that even though there wasn't a woman's, march and
Speaker 4: even though there hasn't been like a sort of single
Speaker 4: leader of you, know the resistance, movement that between the
Speaker 4: sort of tesla events and the town halls and people
Speaker 4: going out on the, streets we are seeing an actual
Speaker 4: grassroots often like led by various groups whose leaders we
Speaker 4: can't always, name but we are seeing pushback and whether
Speaker 4: it's somebody you know shouting at a town hall In
Speaker 4: wyoming or somebody protesting at A tesla. DEALERSHIP i think
Speaker 4: that this intuitive understanding that democracy is not a top
Speaker 4: down proposition is in people's like muscle. Memory we know,
Speaker 4: this and so WHAT i think we have to just.
Speaker 4: Metabolize and this is hard BECAUSE i think we're so
Speaker 4: used to thinking that a thing is going to happen
Speaker 4: in a, court, right or that a thing is going
Speaker 4: to happen out there and that's going to save. Us
Speaker 4: And i'll just say Again i've said it to you,
Speaker 4: before like the court doesn't have an. Army we're the court's.
Speaker 4: Army we're. It and SO i think that in terms
Speaker 4: of people kind of, understanding they're going to have to
Speaker 4: this is The Tim, snyder. Right you have to put
Speaker 4: your own corporeal body into this and not like lean
Speaker 4: back and hope for the. Best and the really good
Speaker 4: news is that every single expert in authoritarianism and fascism
Speaker 4: and autocracy will tell you that if you get some
Speaker 4: x percent of people out on the, streets you can
Speaker 4: claw this.
Speaker 1: Back. Right, No, No AND i think that is absolutely the.
Speaker 2: Answer.
Speaker 1: Here now we have two seconds Of Molly john Fash
Speaker 1: shaw on And FREUDE i am delighted to see that.
Speaker 2: There is A democratic tea party.
Speaker 1: Rising there was so much top down leadership from The Democratic,
Speaker 1: party the consultant class saying you are allowed to do
Speaker 1: a five minute interw You democratic, politician but let me
Speaker 1: make sure that you say. Nothing you know how many
Speaker 1: interviews With democratic politicians HAVE i had where they Say
Speaker 1: america ka it ca because it can you, know like
Speaker 1: everything is straight out of fucking, veep because people are
Speaker 1: so scared to say anything, real because the status quo
Speaker 1: is good. Enough and as much AS i hate this
Speaker 1: moment In american life because it's so disgusting and so,
Speaker 1: stupid and we're watching the destruction of the federal government
Speaker 1: in real, TIME i hate. It the only only bright
Speaker 1: spot is watching people have to actually do something right like.
Speaker 1: That there is a sense in Which democratic politicians cannot
Speaker 1: say we're waiting to See trump's poll numbers go. Down
Speaker 1: they can't write that's not. Enough the base will not
Speaker 1: be satisfied with a we're waiting for his poll numbers
Speaker 1: to go. Down there's no time for. That as much
Speaker 1: AS i hate what's, happening the one good part is
Speaker 1: That democrats are, saying maybe this eighty year old representative.
Speaker 2: Whose kids work at ten companies and.
Speaker 1: Who has been full on in this like tech, oligarchy
Speaker 1: is perhaps not the person we want to lead.
Speaker 4: Us, okay first of, all that should be set to
Speaker 4: music or printed in really tiny eye bumper. Sticker like
Speaker 4: everything you just said is completely. True AND i, think
Speaker 4: like again talk about knife, edge, right like we are
Speaker 4: right now trying to absorb the news that like law
Speaker 4: firm of The, resistance, right THE Dei Law, firm you,
Speaker 4: Know Paul weiss just completely capitulated To Donald trump's bullying
Speaker 4: and you know is, like not only will we obey in,
Speaker 4: advance but we will pay with pro bono work for
Speaker 4: the right to obey in. Advance. Right AND i think
Speaker 4: it's the same point over and over the same day
Speaker 4: that a young Associate Rachel cohen At Scandon arps is,
Speaker 4: like if you all like can't put your bodies into resisting,
Speaker 4: Fascism i'm out, Right AND i think that what you're
Speaker 4: describing and What i'm trying to like sort of light
Speaker 4: the road toward is that in, fact many of the
Speaker 4: huge wealthy corporate structures that we thought existed to resist
Speaker 4: authoritarianism are entirely, captured.
Speaker 1: Right entirely and self. Captured they did it. Themselves i'm, sorry.
Speaker 4: No, no WE'RE i, mean we're saying.
Speaker 2: This it's.
Speaker 4: Bezos it's all the newspapers that bent the. Knee it's
Speaker 4: all of the, like, oh we're The Washington. Post like
Speaker 4: democracy dies in, darkness and then you, know eight years,
Speaker 4: later it's, like, oh democracy dies at our hands because
Speaker 4: we're strangling it in The bathtom like. Good so let's
Speaker 4: all stipulate that money corrodes and corrupts institutions and that
Speaker 4: what rises in its, PLACE i think is really, powerful
Speaker 4: which is like this young associate, SAYING i didn't go
Speaker 4: to law school to be a handmaid to. Fascism i'm.
Speaker 4: Out and we're seeing. That AND i think part of
Speaker 4: the move fast and break, Things mollie is, that like
Speaker 4: people are just starting to be able to. Breathe, Yeah
Speaker 4: and if in, fact your first out breath when you
Speaker 4: kind of take like what and Then china and Then
Speaker 4: ukraine and we're Invading canada and like we're creatoring social,
Speaker 4: security if the first outbreath you.
Speaker 2: Take is who are our?
Speaker 4: Leaders this is a really challenging moment because a lot
Speaker 4: of them we don't know their names.
Speaker 2: Yet, yeah that's a really good.
Speaker 1: Point it's a really challenging moment because we don't know
Speaker 1: their names. Yet, DAHLIA i love. You getting to talk
Speaker 1: to you is a. BOMB i Just i'm so delighted
Speaker 1: to know.
Speaker 4: YOU i feel exactly the same. WAY i want to
Speaker 4: say this in like you, know stentorian oracular, tones BUT
Speaker 4: i got. Nothing my voice is. Shut but thank you
Speaker 4: for all you, Do. Molly this is just going to
Speaker 4: be mutual's going to be a shit. Show, YEAH i
Speaker 4: keep telling, people it's not like a, marathon it's not a.
Speaker 4: Sprint it's a, relay and like everybody has to like
Speaker 4: pass the baton and knowing that you are there to
Speaker 4: receive it and to give it on and too like
Speaker 4: all of us are just gonna have to just run
Speaker 4: really fast knowing that somebody's at the other end of
Speaker 4: this leg of the. Relay so thank, you thank.
Speaker 1: You Paul krugman is a Distinguished professor of economics at
Speaker 1: The Graduate center of The City university Of New, york
Speaker 1: and he is the author of a sub Stack welcome
Speaker 1: back To Fast. Politics Paul, Krugman, hi, There, hi very
Speaker 1: excited to have you on this.
Speaker 2: PODCAST i read your substack every.
Speaker 6: Day that's great to hear Since i'm writing it every.
Speaker 2: Time SO i want.
Speaker 1: To, say it's an incredibly fucked up, moment but it's
Speaker 1: really fucked up on the economic. Side it's funny because
Speaker 1: it's like so many of these people voted For trump
Speaker 1: because they thought or said that he'd be good on the.
Speaker 1: Economy but what they're doing on the economy right now is.
Speaker 1: Incomprehensible so explain to us what the theory. Is but
Speaker 1: what's really.
Speaker 2: Happening what makes you think that there's a.
Speaker 6: THEORY i, mean part of the point is the sain
Speaker 6: washing On trump's on, everything but certainly On trump's economic
Speaker 6: policy is. Enormous the really hard to figure. OUT i,
Speaker 6: mean if we ask what is he doing to fulfill
Speaker 6: his campaign promises to make groceries cheaper and all of,
Speaker 6: that the answer is. Nothing there is no. Plan he
Speaker 6: wants to put on tariff's taxes on important goods and
Speaker 6: not entirely. Clear the justifications keep. Changing but he has
Speaker 6: this idea that somehow or, other returning to the trade
Speaker 6: policies of eighteen ninety eight is going to do magical
Speaker 6: things for the. Economy and aside from, that it's a.
Speaker 6: HODGEPODGE i, mean there are multiple doctrines that seem to
Speaker 6: be floating around which are mutually, contradictory The marralagou, doctrine.
Speaker 6: Whatever if you actually ask what is it they're trying to,
Speaker 6: do what is their idea of how this is going to?
Speaker 6: Work that's a very hard question to, answer except they
Speaker 6: say that what makes you think there's any logical coherence
Speaker 6: to any of?
Speaker 4: This?
Speaker 1: Right the Mar lago doctor and Oh Jesus. Christ but
Speaker 1: Basically trump has decided tariffs are good for the, economy
Speaker 1: and the trade wars are good and easy to. Win
Speaker 1: last time he had trade, wars he had reduced the
Speaker 1: economy with tax. Cuts this, time the economy was in
Speaker 1: a very precarious.
Speaker 2: State it was A goldilock's.
Speaker 1: Economy but it had been you, know we were struggling with,
Speaker 1: inflation and well it had been good on. PEOPLE a
Speaker 1: lot of people were not happy with. It they didn't
Speaker 1: like the, inflation, right is that?
Speaker 6: Fair, well a lot of. People the inflation really was
Speaker 6: pretty close to. Normal, AGAIN i measured at an annual,
Speaker 6: rate but the big inflation was really twenty twenty one
Speaker 6: twenty twenty two came as a shock after many years
Speaker 6: of low, inflation and people were sort of still. Upset
Speaker 6: people were going to. Store they still remembered what things
Speaker 6: had cost before the, pandemic and then wanted to know
Speaker 6: why prices couldn't come back. Down And trump just promised
Speaker 6: that he would bring them back, down which was an impossible.
Speaker 6: Promise what's really amazing about the current and it is
Speaker 6: not just that the policies themselves are wildly. DESTRUCTIVE, Us
Speaker 6: canada And mexico are very Much they're just a there's
Speaker 6: no such thing as A us manufacturing sector. Anymore there's
Speaker 6: A North american manufacturing. Sector parts of an automobile may
Speaker 6: cross one or both of the borders seven or eight
Speaker 6: times before you have a finished. Automobile and to be
Speaker 6: slapping twenty five percent tariffs on that is really really.
Speaker 6: Bad but then to be putting tariffs on and then,
Speaker 6: off and then on and then off so that nobody
Speaker 6: knows what the policy really, is that's even. Worse imagine
Speaker 6: yourself as an auto industry. EXECUTIVE i know that might
Speaker 6: be a little, hard but you, know and you're trying
Speaker 6: to decide whether to invest money in upgrading Your mexican
Speaker 6: operations or trying to bring some of them back to
Speaker 6: The United. States either one of those could be turned
Speaker 6: out to be totally wasted money because depends on which
Speaker 6: policy we're going to, follow and nobody has any.
Speaker 1: IDEA i want to go back to that for a,
Speaker 1: second because we're talking about markets hate.
Speaker 2: Uncertainty you just.
Speaker 1: Want to know what the plan, is and in, fact
Speaker 1: what we're seeing with the pullback now that perhaps stumbling into,
Speaker 1: recession which has now been mused, about by the, way
Speaker 1: just talk about how abnormal it is to have an
Speaker 1: administration be like we might have to have a. RECESSION i,
Speaker 1: mean doesn't that sort of shock you to hear best
Speaker 1: and say, that.
Speaker 6: YEAH i, mean first of, all it's really weird to
Speaker 6: hear that The treasury secretary sounding more pessimistic than private
Speaker 6: sector forecasters who think that every recession is, possible and
Speaker 6: he's almost declaring, that, oh we're going to have to
Speaker 6: go through a lot of pain and for. What, well
Speaker 6: that's the. Thing, this this whole, storyline which is, oh
Speaker 6: the economy prosperity Under biden was fake because was all government,
Speaker 6: jobs which it takes you about ninety seconds online to
Speaker 6: find out that that's just not. True it just isn't
Speaker 6: it all where we. Were there's both a story about
Speaker 6: where we are which is just not true about this
Speaker 6: bloated government, sector which we have a government sector that's
Speaker 6: been kind of starved for funds for many decades, now
Speaker 6: and we have a plan to rebalance the, economy but
Speaker 6: there is no. Plan what you have Is Elon musk's
Speaker 6: little helpers running around and mucking things, up but not
Speaker 6: actually saving a significant amount of.
Speaker 2: Money so, right that was, amazing by the.
Speaker 1: Way that Was david Fahrenhol to basically figuring out that
Speaker 1: they're actually government spending his flat or maybe up a tiny.
Speaker 6: Bit, yeah and you know those numbers a little but
Speaker 6: if you actually ask what documented savings has those, achieved
Speaker 6: and the answer is. None what they've done is they
Speaker 6: put out several supposed tallies receipts of their, accomplishments which
Speaker 6: are full of incredible, errors miss reading eight million is eight,
Speaker 6: billion counting the same contract three. Times if you were
Speaker 6: an employer and you had an employee who messed up that,
Speaker 6: badly you wouldn't be giving him more. Authority you'd be
Speaker 6: having security escort him out of the. BUILDING i mean
Speaker 6: this is.
Speaker 2: Agredible, yeah, yeah let's sort of talk this through.
Speaker 1: Here we, are we are in the precipice of this
Speaker 1: like great. Pain the way they're selling it is that
Speaker 1: this pain will lead to, something the thing that they
Speaker 1: keep not saying or they keep. Saying but what seems
Speaker 1: like the underlying idea here is that tariffs will bring
Speaker 1: Back american, manufacturing right that the things that were manufactured
Speaker 1: In china will now be manufactured.
Speaker 2: Here how would that even.
Speaker 6: Work you, know if you had five hundred percent terriffs
Speaker 6: or you, know sufficiently high, terriffs you basically shut down
Speaker 6: the international trade and we start to produce everything, ourselves
Speaker 6: which is. Feasible you can imagine that, happening but it
Speaker 6: would make us. Poorer and you, know there are multiple
Speaker 6: reasons for. That but if you think about your, clothing
Speaker 6: it's really labor intensive and it really does not make
Speaker 6: sense for us to produce clothing except, for you, know
Speaker 6: some very high end stuff in The United. States when
Speaker 6: there are people out there in places Like bangladesh who
Speaker 6: are desperate for the. Work there are lots of jobs
Speaker 6: by our, standards but there are better than the alternatives
Speaker 6: by their. Standards so you, know there are benefits to international,
Speaker 6: trade and even with all of, THAT i suppose that
Speaker 6: somehow managed to completely eliminate the trade. Deficit some of
Speaker 6: us have been looking At. Germany germany runs enormous trade,
Speaker 6: surpluses which is actually kind of a. Problem but, anyway
Speaker 6: The german manufacturing sector has been shrinking over time because
Speaker 6: modern economies just need fewer people in manufacturing than they
Speaker 6: did half a century. Ago so you, know if you're
Speaker 6: Saying i'm on an industry to dominate the economy the
Speaker 6: way it did in the nineteen, fifties people don't want
Speaker 6: to buy that. Stuff that's LIKE i, SAY i want
Speaker 6: us to go back to being a nation of. Farmers
Speaker 6: that's not going to.
Speaker 2: Happen.
Speaker 1: YEAH i mean you wrote a piece about making sweatshops great.
Speaker 2: Again, yeah AND i think that was ultimately the play. Here.
Speaker 2: RIGHT a lot of this is.
Speaker 1: About going back to a time When america was great
Speaker 1: for white, men and there's a sort of fantasy, economy you,
Speaker 1: know the Smooth holly.
Speaker 2: Tariffs.
Speaker 6: Right Some one thing THAT i think it's important to
Speaker 6: say here is that we think of manufacturing jobs as
Speaker 6: being good, jobs but they weren't always good. Jobs the
Speaker 6: fact the garment industry was for much of its history
Speaker 6: a really terrible industry to work. In even the auto
Speaker 6: industry was not. Great the reason why manufacturing jobs were
Speaker 6: for a wild good jobs is that they had strong.
Speaker 6: Unions so you, know you can if you bring back,
Speaker 6: manufacturing but don't bring back the. Unions all you're doing
Speaker 6: is creating some not especially great jobs and at the
Speaker 6: same time making everything more. Expensive.
Speaker 1: Right and, look one of the problems we had for
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four, election which, we for whatever reason
Speaker 1: have memory, hold is that there was a very tight labor.
Speaker 1: Market people did not want a lot of these. Jobs
Speaker 1: and in fact we found and there was Really The
Speaker 1: times did amazing reporting on, this that there were children
Speaker 1: working in a lot of these, factories right because they
Speaker 1: were illegal, immigrants were children and they had come over
Speaker 1: Because american citizens didn't want these.
Speaker 2: Jobs.
Speaker 6: YEAH i think about, agriculture and this is. TRUE a
Speaker 6: lot of, MANUFACTURING i, mean meat packing is largely, immigrants
Speaker 6: and many of them. Undocumented agriculture is largely, immigrants many
Speaker 6: of them. Undocumented because we're a rich, country wealth and
Speaker 6: income are very unevenly. Distributed but even, so most native
Speaker 6: Born americans have better alternatives than picking. Strawberries and so
Speaker 6: the idea that either that we can bringing back manufacturing
Speaker 6: is going to make us rich again or, richer or
Speaker 6: that we will be richer if we reserve the jobs
Speaker 6: that are currently being done by immigrants.
Speaker 1: For native born.
Speaker 6: Workers both of those are just you, know this is
Speaker 6: some of those jobs that immigrants are taking right, now
Speaker 6: and ask yourself how many people In america really want
Speaker 6: to do those.
Speaker 1: Jobs let's have a thought, experiment perman to say, today
Speaker 1: you wanted to fix where we're going, here what would
Speaker 1: you do if you Were Scott bassant and you you,
Speaker 1: know it was switched at birth right or whatever it,
Speaker 1: was you, know Freaky friday where you switch, bodies what
Speaker 1: would you do to fix this sort of trajectory we're.
Speaker 2: On, well the trouble.
Speaker 6: Is That trump is the kind of, person which is,
Speaker 6: actually i have to, say quite common among powerful and rich,
Speaker 6: people kind of person who only hears what he wants
Speaker 6: to hear and surrounds himself with people who tell him
Speaker 6: what he wants to. Hear so he's had this fixation
Speaker 6: on tariffs for a long. Time and If Scott bessen
Speaker 6: were to, say you, know Mister, PRESIDENT i think you
Speaker 6: know you're going overboard. Here, well we pretty soon have
Speaker 6: a New treasury, secretary we have an imperial, presidency would
Speaker 6: the autocratic presidency with some guy who has convinced himself
Speaker 6: that he has the secret to, Prosperity AND i don't
Speaker 6: know that there's any way to move. It THE us
Speaker 6: economy As january, twentieth you, know had, problems as any economy,
Speaker 6: does but it was. Okay inflation was pretty, low, low
Speaker 6: unemployment was quite. Low there were lots of things you
Speaker 6: could try to, reform but this kind of we're going
Speaker 6: to tear it up by the, roots and there was
Speaker 6: no reason to do that except that this all comes
Speaker 6: from the mind Of Donald.
Speaker 1: Trump, yeah but if you were theoretically to do, it
Speaker 1: what you would do is you would end all the.
Speaker 1: Tariffs you would say, whatever and then you would continue
Speaker 1: on This biden pass. Right.
Speaker 6: YEAH i mean there were a couple of. Things was
Speaker 6: by no means free, markets free, trade trade, purist.
Speaker 2: Certainly not, right and markets Hated Lena khan that.
Speaker 6: Too she was definitely fighting monopoly. Power but we were
Speaker 6: starting to spend quite a lot of money on advanced,
Speaker 6: technology largely for national security, reasons and spending a lot
Speaker 6: of money on subsidizing green energy for saving the planet.
Speaker 6: Reasons and both of those were quite nationalistic. Policies, obviously
Speaker 6: as you're trying to PROMOTE us production of the dance,
Speaker 6: technology that has to be. Nationalistic but the green energy
Speaker 6: policies were pretty By american, too because that was how
Speaker 6: you made them politically. Saleable, SO i, mean what we
Speaker 6: really should have had is a, bigger non mansionized version
Speaker 6: Of biden's industrial. Policies IF i had no political, constraints.
Speaker 1: That's WHAT i.
Speaker 6: Do i'd be doing a lot of expenditure on strategic,
Speaker 6: industries on green. Industries that's what you need to, do
Speaker 6: which is not the same as going back to whatever
Speaker 6: the global marketplace says is. Right but it's also not
Speaker 6: going to just scatter brain tariffs.
Speaker 1: Right, right and that is absolutely setting up a fiesque.
Speaker 2: Situation so let me ask.
Speaker 1: You as you're watching this economy right, now what are
Speaker 1: the sort of things that you are watching that are
Speaker 1: making you kind of sort of the most nervous as
Speaker 1: you watch, things and what are the things that make
Speaker 1: you think maybe will be okay?
Speaker 6: Here, Okay consumers are sounding very, upset and there are
Speaker 6: at least hints in the data that they're actually starting
Speaker 6: to pull. Back there's often people will say the economnyst.
Speaker 6: Lousy now let me go out and spend a lot of.
Speaker 6: Money but right now it does look as if people
Speaker 6: are in fact beginning to pull. Back so we're a
Speaker 6: little weak. There business, investment you wouldn't expect to see it,
Speaker 6: now but every survey of businesses says that businesses are
Speaker 6: basically pulling back to wait and see. Inflation you, know
Speaker 6: if these talents actually, happen then that right away is
Speaker 6: going to add two or three percent to the cost of.
Speaker 6: Living if deportations really gather, steam that's going to add
Speaker 6: a whole other bunch to the cost of, living especially food,
Speaker 6: prices but also construction a lot of immigrants there. Too
Speaker 6: we have the elements in there for, stagflation for a
Speaker 6: combination of a.
Speaker 1: Recession can you explain to our listeners and more importantly,
Speaker 1: me remind me what stagflation looks.
Speaker 6: Like look nineteen eighty with high unemployment and nine percent,
Speaker 6: inflation that's. Stagflation so the end of the, seventies when
Speaker 6: we went into a deep, recession which was basically deliberately
Speaker 6: and when The Federal reserve imposed a recession to try
Speaker 6: and bring inflation, down and it took a while for
Speaker 6: inflation to come, down so you had a period of
Speaker 6: high inflation and high. Unemployment or if you go back
Speaker 6: a little, bit there was also a soaring oil prices
Speaker 6: after The Iranian, Revolution so you have inflation because of
Speaker 6: the oil, prices and you have unemployment because the oil
Speaker 6: prices are also causing a. Recession this is all stuff that.
Speaker 6: Classic we remember these, things but these things were the
Speaker 6: last time we had it was largely external. Events it
Speaker 6: was wars in The Middle, east and to some, extent irresponsible,
Speaker 6: policy but mostly it was that we kind of things
Speaker 6: got out of. Control what we have now and we've
Speaker 6: never had this, before is it looks like we have
Speaker 6: policies that will kind of do this to. Ourselves we
Speaker 6: will create inflation with tarris and mass, deportations will create
Speaker 6: unemployment by creating so much uncertainty that businesses and consumers pull.
Speaker 6: Back and there's definitely a story whereas sometime next year
Speaker 6: we have got both frighteningly high unemployment and frightening the high, inflation,
Speaker 6: right and.
Speaker 2: That's really a nightmare. Scenario All krugman thank you so.
Speaker 6: Much, well thank.
Speaker 2: You Tim miller is a host of The Bulwark daily.
Speaker 2: Podcast Hi, Tim Hey.
Speaker 7: MOLLY i always forget it's been a, while and for
Speaker 7: a WHILE i was like the top guest, here and you,
Speaker 7: know then things got busy AND i forget. That this
Speaker 7: show kind of starts with you just being, like, what,
Speaker 7: hey there's no you, know welcome To Fast.
Speaker 8: Politics we actually do do intro where We i'm aware
Speaker 8: my experience and my experience of the show is is
Speaker 8: just this part, Anyway we're just.
Speaker 1: Delightful so and we actually were on a show together
Speaker 1: last week and it was very.
Speaker 7: Fun, yeah you our best out, here.
Speaker 2: Which was ten years.
Speaker 1: Ago remember when there was when you did that, audit
Speaker 1: the republican audit of like the autopsy autopsy.
Speaker 7: You grew up an opportunity project, actually so it was called, formally.
Speaker 1: Do you think that there is like is there a
Speaker 1: democratic version of?
Speaker 7: THAT i guess the big lesson from the, audit as
Speaker 7: you called, it was that, actually the people don't really
Speaker 7: care THE dc And snyder's, one, honestly and we learned
Speaker 7: that lesson several times, now going back To Barack obama
Speaker 7: in two thousand and, eight all the way through To
Speaker 7: Donald trump. Presidencies, NOW i think that there's certain things
Speaker 7: that The democrats could reflect on and learn that would
Speaker 7: be applicable no matter who the nominee. Is for, example
Speaker 7: in the souttern media, age it's probably good to do
Speaker 7: a lot of media than to be out there and
Speaker 7: to be less cautious and to be less wound. Tight
Speaker 7: you know WHAT i? Know isn't that? Crazy crazy? Notion?
Speaker 7: Now AS i say, THIS i was joking With Ben
Speaker 7: dreyfus ON x about. This i'm On Blue sky, now
Speaker 7: BUT i was joking With ben ON x about, this
Speaker 7: AND i was, like you, know here's the. Thing, THOUGH
Speaker 7: i can give all this advice in an audit through on,
Speaker 7: balance but like the most likely, scenario there's some less
Speaker 7: likely scenarios that are way worse than. This but the
Speaker 7: most likely, scenario in my, opinion is that this administration
Speaker 7: is such a fucking nightmare and such a disaster for
Speaker 7: so many people that The democrats could do anything next,
Speaker 7: time earn nothing from this last, election, right the same
Speaker 7: flause that they had last time and went just because
Speaker 7: people are so. Sick and that's especially if there's an
Speaker 7: economic collapse or recession that there are ways that it
Speaker 7: could go, differently but, LIKE i think that's probably you
Speaker 7: looked at all the various outcomes the most likely, outcome
Speaker 7: so you, know maybe the people by twenty twenty eight
Speaker 7: are so desperate for anything Besides trump that a very
Speaker 7: cautious talking point To democrat could. Through but like, unbalanced
Speaker 7: just in, GENERAL i just think The republican message machine
Speaker 7: is just so much better now AND i think that's
Speaker 7: something That democrats could could learn from what the New democrat.
Speaker 7: Does from a policy. Standpoint it's always funny every expert
Speaker 7: you have is, like, WELL i wish THAT i think
Speaker 7: The democrats could win if The, canada did you know
Speaker 7: express views THAT i, have, right, right of, course you.
Speaker 1: Know WHAT i?
Speaker 7: Mean, yeah, YEAH i MEAN i would love for it
Speaker 7: to be some you, know more Moderate, democrat BUT i
Speaker 7: don't know that that's necessarily. TRUE i think there are
Speaker 7: a lot of different ways to do it, ideologically AND
Speaker 7: i think we learned in twenty twelve that just because
Speaker 7: THE dc types want a certain type of, ideology like
Speaker 7: the voters get to have their.
Speaker 6: Saye you, Know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought a priors because that's SOMETHING i
Speaker 1: think about all the, time, right what are my priors
Speaker 1: and how are they informing my decision here like? That
Speaker 1: SO i was glad you said that BECAUSE i do
Speaker 1: often bristle when and you, KNOW i get in this
Speaker 1: with a, lot you, know Whenever Trump republicans are, like,
Speaker 1: yeah we really shouldn't be paying for, eyeglasses you, know
Speaker 1: or free.
Speaker 2: Breakfast you. Know i'm, like, yeah of course you, don't you.
Speaker 1: Know SO i was glad that you talked about. That
Speaker 1: BUT i also think it's a negative even for, liberals, Right,
Speaker 1: LIKE i know my priors are, like you, know limousine, liberal,
Speaker 1: right just pay more taxes and and give or kids
Speaker 1: stuff so THAT i can you, know make movies about.
Speaker 1: It and the other thing is that THAT i was
Speaker 1: glad you talked also about was, communication because that is
Speaker 1: this thing that gets me the most furious with The democratic. Establishment, yeah,
Speaker 1: no for.
Speaker 7: Sure and, LOOK i was on The Steph rule last
Speaker 7: night and it's funny because she was, like she's playing
Speaker 7: a clip From bernie AND aoc and then an op
Speaker 7: ed From David, french you, Know trump, hero And David
Speaker 7: french was, saying you, know The democrats shouldn't do what
Speaker 7: The republicans did with the tea party and get angry
Speaker 7: and get out, there and she's, like what say, You,
Speaker 7: Tim AND i was, LIKE i, mean on this, one tactically,
Speaker 7: SPEAKING i got a signed With bernie AND aoc on this.
Speaker 7: One it's not my dream tick for twenty twenty, eight of,
Speaker 7: course but at least they are out there getting attention
Speaker 7: and making an argument and making a case to. People
Speaker 7: a lot of people out. THERE i think about all
Speaker 7: the discussion about The Democratic rogan and the bro podcast,
Speaker 7: world and some of the discussion is, silly but there's
Speaker 7: one element of it that's. True there are a lot
Speaker 7: of dudes out. THERE i know some of, them and women,
Speaker 7: frankly but mostly it's like some of these podcasts that
Speaker 7: don't really follow the news right and aren't particularly. IDEOLOGICAL
Speaker 7: i probably would like a lot of things That bernie
Speaker 7: AND aoc have to, say probably like all the things that,
Speaker 7: matter like Jos shapiro would have to, say honestly right
Speaker 7: like they. Did they're not Ideological and the only thing
Speaker 7: that they were hearing was From. Trump all they're hearing
Speaker 7: was From trump because he's, everywhere and all they were
Speaker 7: hearing About democrats was negative shit That trump and his people,
Speaker 7: say and so you ask why are young men more
Speaker 7: conservative now than old? Men and it's, like well that's.
Speaker 7: Why just at, minimum like at Least bernie AND aoc break.
Speaker 7: Through and some of those young men will be turned
Speaker 7: Off albernie naosis and aren't going to be. Gettble that's,
Speaker 7: fine but some of them will be, like oh, wait
Speaker 7: like they're actually making more sensible, points you, Know and
Speaker 7: and then that you start to clos some people. Back
Speaker 7: so you, KNOW i just think that element of it
Speaker 7: is a no. Brainer but it's it's easier said than.
Speaker 3: Done you.
Speaker 1: Know that's something we saw a, lot. Right trump won
Speaker 1: by just going places and talking, yes.
Speaker 7: And he brought on new people and.
Speaker 1: Again to hear more of this, conversation please head over
Speaker 1: to our YouTube. Channel you can Search Fast politics on.
Speaker 1: YouTube No, Normal Jesse, cannon Poly Junk.
Speaker 3: Fast So trump trying to dismantle The department Of education
Speaker 3: is going to be a, massive massive. Worm we're already
Speaker 3: seeing it ramp.
Speaker 4: Up.
Speaker 1: Yeah so remember When project twenty twenty five talked about
Speaker 1: dismantling The department Of education and everyone was, like, yeah
Speaker 1: but it's not actually going to do. That, well he's
Speaker 1: actually going to fucking do. That so The department Of,
Speaker 1: education here's what they, do those. Cocks they provide low,
Speaker 1: income rural disabled students with money that they desperately need
Speaker 1: so that they can go to school or go to.
Speaker 1: College Or trump world would like to replace slow income
Speaker 1: children with tax cuts for. Billionaires so, rural smaller school
Speaker 1: districts will rely on The department Of education for technical
Speaker 1: assistance for implication of The title one, grants they're going
Speaker 1: to be completely out of. Luck it will. Be department
Speaker 1: Of education also sets perimeters around accommodations for disabled. Students
Speaker 1: they help schools for.
Speaker 2: The deaf and the.
Speaker 1: BLIND i, mean this is like such a disgusting attack
Speaker 1: on the federal. Government it's an attack On Red, states
Speaker 1: right on people In Red. States and we shouldn't be.
Speaker 1: Surprised it was talked about In project twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Five it is absolutely what this crew is set on.
Speaker 1: Doing it's what they want wanted to, do it's what
Speaker 1: they've dreamed of, doing and we should not be surprised
Speaker 1: to see.
Speaker 2: It but it's still really.
Speaker 1: Disgusting if they are able to do, it the people
Speaker 1: who will suffer will be kids In Red, states public
Speaker 1: school students in red. States it will hurt low income
Speaker 1: and rural. Schools low income and rural people voted For.
Speaker 1: Trump now they will suffer Because trump wants to Give
Speaker 1: Elon musk a tax. Cut so congratulations to all who
Speaker 1: made this. Happen we'll see some, pushback but you, know
Speaker 1: Ultimately republicans have rolled. Over we'll see What democrats can.
Speaker 1: Do that's it for this episode Of Fast. Politics tune
Speaker 1: in Every, Monday, Wednesday, thursday And saturday to hear the
Speaker 1: best minds and politics make sense of all this. Chaos
Speaker 1: if you enjoy this, podcast please send it to a
Speaker 1: friend and keep the conversation.
Speaker 2: Going thanks for.
Speaker 1: Listening