Speaker 1: Pushkin, Hey, slight Changers. I cannot believe the Olympics are over.
Speaker 1: I am in total denial over here, as I've been
Speaker 1: tuning in most evenings to watch the coverage this Olympics.
Speaker 1: I followed so many sports, but there was one athlete
Speaker 1: in particular that I was very excited to watch, and
Speaker 1: that's US track star Gabby Thomas. I actually interviewed Gabby
Speaker 1: on A Slight Change of Plans back in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 1: and she absolutely crushed it in Paris. So she won
Speaker 1: her first individual gold medal in the two hundred meter
Speaker 1: race and then went on to win two more gold
Speaker 1: medals in team relay races. When I spoke with Gabby
Speaker 1: on the show after her Olympic debut in Tokyo, she
Speaker 1: was incredibly open about her young life and her complicated
Speaker 1: relationship with track and field. She defied many of the
Speaker 1: stereotypes I had around what someone has to be like
Speaker 1: in order to become an Olympian. Gabby's thoughtful reflections really
Speaker 1: embody the spirit of A Slight Change of Plans, and
Speaker 1: they struck me even more powerfully after her wins in Paris.
Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. When I first
Speaker 1: heard about Gabby's ascent in track and field, I assumed
Speaker 1: her relationship with running was a relatively straightforward, one passion
Speaker 1: at an early age match with a singular focus. But
Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. I discovered that Gabby had competing
Speaker 1: interests and as a result, her focus was pulled in
Speaker 1: different directions over the course of her life, especially during
Speaker 1: her time as a Harvard undergrad, and this tension has
Speaker 1: led Gabby to continually question which path she to take.
Speaker 1: At times, She's even considered whether she should quit track altogether.
Speaker 1: And so, because the show is all about how we
Speaker 1: navigate those big inflection moments in our lives, I thought
Speaker 1: we could learn a lot from Gabby's story of change.
Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans,
Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become
Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. So I'd love
Speaker 1: to start by going all the way back to your childhood.
Speaker 1: I think one thing a lot of people might not
Speaker 1: know about your story is that growing up you had
Speaker 1: no interest in being an athlete, right you wanted to
Speaker 1: study neurobiology. And I'm wondering if you can tell me
Speaker 1: more about your family and how it led you down
Speaker 1: that path.
Speaker 2: In terms of going into neurobiology, that came from very
Speaker 2: personal experiences within my own family and just seeing how
Speaker 2: my brothers who are neuro atypical and who they are
Speaker 2: and how they navigated life. One of my younger brothers
Speaker 2: has autism. He has Aspergers and he was diagnosed at
Speaker 2: the age of four, I believe, and just watching how
Speaker 2: he navigates the world and how the world isn't exactly
Speaker 2: built for him, but he's so special and amazing in
Speaker 2: his own way. And then I have my twin brother
Speaker 2: who just battled Adhd I believe he was diagnosed at eight,
Speaker 2: and going through that and going through the school system
Speaker 2: and having to deal with that and having things not
Speaker 2: really be adopted towards you, but you know, they have
Speaker 2: to adapt towards the world.
Speaker 3: That they're living in.
Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, at this point,
Speaker 2: I decided that I wanted to study the nervous system
Speaker 2: and just explore that area.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, Gaddy, was there a specific moment in
Speaker 1: your life where you thought, Okay, this is what I
Speaker 1: have to do with my life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was definitely a moment when I was in
Speaker 2: high school, this random morning getting ready for school, My mom,
Speaker 2: my twin brother, and I were all in the kitchen,
Speaker 2: sitting at the kitchen table, just getting ready like we
Speaker 2: normally do.
Speaker 3: I was fixing a bowl of cereal.
Speaker 2: My brother was just grabbing his backpack getting ready to go,
Speaker 2: and my mom had asked him if he had taken
Speaker 2: its medication for school that day, and he said no,
Speaker 2: And of course, you know, she's thinking, well why not,
Speaker 2: because this is your normal. We should be taking medication
Speaker 2: so that you can go and focus. Then he had
Speaker 2: mentioned that he could not take the side effects anymore,
Speaker 2: he didn't like how it made him feel. And for me,
Speaker 2: what I had noticed in the weeks, even months prior
Speaker 2: to that exact moment, was that my brother was very
Speaker 2: different from the brother that I had grown up with.
Speaker 2: He was just this very very active and fun and
Speaker 2: silly kid. And then you notice as he would switch
Speaker 2: the medication, he just seemed so so somber and just
Speaker 2: not quite himself. And I think we all noticed it,
Speaker 2: and my mom had gotten to a point where she
Speaker 2: did not know what to do, and the frustration just
Speaker 2: set in and my mom just started crying I had
Speaker 2: never seen her cry like that, and I think it
Speaker 2: was very it was shocking for me, probably for my
Speaker 2: twin brother too, but definitely very shocking for me to
Speaker 2: witness that and to see that frustration and just not
Speaker 2: knowing what steps to take next. And so I think
Speaker 2: in that moment, yeah, I was very curious about it.
Speaker 2: I was wondering, well, why is it, Why is this
Speaker 2: his only option? Why is it that he has to
Speaker 2: be altering himself and who he is? So I was, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was maybe sixteen at this time, and I decided
Speaker 2: that I wanted to go into neurobiology and study it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can imagine as his sister, just
Speaker 1: feeling so helpless, like, why is he having to make
Speaker 1: this trade off between feeling like himself and getting his
Speaker 1: schoolwork done?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: That's not right? And it's also as his twin sister, right.
Speaker 2: So I just I grew up with him and I
Speaker 2: did everything with him, and we just did everything together,
Speaker 2: and he was my best friend growing up.
Speaker 3: And she just see.
Speaker 2: That kind of helplessness from someone who truly is just
Speaker 2: feels like a part of me was it was pretty shocking.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so beautiful. I mean, I can hear the
Speaker 1: passion and curiosity in your voice even now, you know,
Speaker 1: just talking about this, I love to pivot to running
Speaker 1: for a moment. I love the fact that you've been
Speaker 1: able to occupy these two very distinct worlds in your life,
Speaker 1: you know, track and public health. And also there's been
Speaker 1: so many ebbs and flows in your drive and motivation
Speaker 1: along the way, and to me, that's a part of
Speaker 1: your story that feels so relatable. I can't relate to
Speaker 1: being an incredibly fast runner, though. Note please that I
Speaker 1: was on the cross country team in high school and
Speaker 1: it was notably a walk on team, which is the
Speaker 1: only reason that I was on the cross country team
Speaker 1: in high school that I did log in my five k's. Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the part that's so relatable to me is that you know,
Speaker 1: we all question at some point or another whether we're
Speaker 1: on the right path or whether we should change course.
Speaker 1: And it was so reassuring for me, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: we'll be so reassuring for so many listeners that you
Speaker 1: fall into this camp too. I so appreciated the fact
Speaker 1: that you've said you didn't actually love running it first.
Speaker 1: And the reason I love that, Gavy is because it runs.
Speaker 1: So counter to the typical romantic story you hear from Olympians,
Speaker 1: right that it was like love it first step or
Speaker 1: love it first jump or whatever you know you hear
Speaker 1: out there, and so you know your story. It just
Speaker 1: feels kind of normal and an interesting way, right. It
Speaker 1: shows that passion can be cultivated. And so just bring
Speaker 1: me back to your first encounter with running.
Speaker 4: I'm wondering what that exposure was like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually very funny that you bring that up,
Speaker 2: because a lot of times I do just kind of
Speaker 2: feel like such a phony, being like the only pro
Speaker 2: track athlete who didn't want to go into track and field.
Speaker 2: Whenever I talk about it with people, it's always like,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? So, what are you doing here?
Speaker 2: You can cultivate it. But yeah, so I got into
Speaker 2: track in middle school. My mom forced me to do it,
Speaker 2: and at the time I didn't want to go. None
Speaker 2: of my friends were doing it, and I, quite frankly,
Speaker 2: I didn't want to run. Soccer was my first love,
Speaker 2: and they knew I was fast because I would run
Speaker 2: the ball in soccer and that was all I knew
Speaker 2: about running, and I knew I didn't want.
Speaker 3: To do it.
Speaker 2: But I ended up going and being on the team
Speaker 2: and just running really fast, and from then on it
Speaker 2: was almost as if I didn't really have a choice
Speaker 2: but to do track and field because I was winning
Speaker 2: every race that I was put in, whether I just
Speaker 2: varied across a sprints and then even the jumps, So
Speaker 2: I was kind of in this position where I felt
Speaker 2: obligated to do it.
Speaker 1: Tell me more about that, because that is so interesting,
Speaker 1: right that when we see success in ourselves, even if
Speaker 1: it doesn't align with an active passion, we feel compelled
Speaker 1: in some way, like we owe it to the world
Speaker 1: or owe it to ourselves.
Speaker 4: I don't know what it is.
Speaker 3: That's exactly how I felt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, tell me more about that.
Speaker 2: That's exactly how I felt. I felt like I just
Speaker 2: owed it to the world. You have all these people
Speaker 2: who are congratulating me, telling me how proud they were
Speaker 2: of me, and they were so happy to have me
Speaker 2: on the team and have me running. I just felt
Speaker 2: like I would have been a very big disappointment if
Speaker 2: I did not continue to run.
Speaker 3: It's a very weird feeling, and.
Speaker 2: In hindsight, it's easy to say, Okay, well, then why
Speaker 2: did you continue to do it? But I think that's
Speaker 2: a lot of time. That's how we operate, and you
Speaker 2: want to be successful so badly that sometimes you're just
Speaker 2: willing to like overlook whatever is making you happy. Actually,
Speaker 2: it is this interesting thing that we do in society
Speaker 2: where you kind of just don't want to waste your talent, right,
Speaker 2: And I had that talent, and at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, you know, I do find that people do
Speaker 2: enjoy things that they're good at, and that is a
Speaker 2: true statement. But at the time, I didn't, you know,
Speaker 2: that was fine. I just continued to do it and
Speaker 2: I just found joy in the little parts of it,
Speaker 2: made some friends on the team, and you know, you
Speaker 2: just find little aspects that you like.
Speaker 3: But ultimately track wasn't. I didn't want it to be
Speaker 3: my thing.
Speaker 2: And then at some point, you know, I kept doing
Speaker 2: it through middle school, and then it was my software
Speaker 2: year in high school when I actually started to enjoy
Speaker 2: it and set goals for myself and actually be pretty
Speaker 2: motivated and determined in the actual sport.
Speaker 1: What do you think changed for you? What led you
Speaker 1: to suddenly start articulating these goals. It turned into a
Speaker 1: thing you were doing for grudgingly to a thing that
Speaker 1: was actually driving you day to day.
Speaker 2: Well, part of it was I'm like, if I'm going
Speaker 2: to be here every day in the spring, then I
Speaker 2: should probably figure out a way to love it. But
Speaker 2: the biggest part of it was I had a coach
Speaker 2: who was pushing me a lot and actually just taught
Speaker 2: me a lot about working hard and actually getting out
Speaker 2: what you put in, and that's something that I had
Speaker 2: not really experienced before. So it was kind of just
Speaker 2: a mindset shift that was like, you know, it actually
Speaker 2: kind of transcended track and field itself and it more
Speaker 2: just became something about me growing as a person. So
Speaker 2: it really wasn't about loving the running itself, loving running
Speaker 2: that two hundred meters, but it was more like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if I'm going to do this, I'm gonna work hard
Speaker 2: here and then I'm going to see the results.
Speaker 3: And that was rewarding part that that I found to
Speaker 3: enjoy about it.
Speaker 1: Were there any role models you had in this space,
Speaker 1: anyone you saw crushing it out there that.
Speaker 3: Let you up. Yeah, Well, Allison Felix was always my
Speaker 3: role model.
Speaker 2: I remember when I was gosh, I had to be
Speaker 2: in middle school at my grandmother's house and the Olympic
Speaker 2: Trials were on and my mom told me to turn
Speaker 2: on the TV because there was someone on the screen
Speaker 2: that just reminded her of me. She had these long
Speaker 2: legs and she was just absolutely crushing it with grace
Speaker 2: and poise, And at the time I thought nothing about it.
Speaker 2: I said that is great for her, and my mom
Speaker 2: was like, you could be an Olympian one day, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, sounds great. Mom, so happy for Allison,
Speaker 2: but that's not my path. I just never considered it.
Speaker 2: And after that, you know, I followed Allison's career a
Speaker 2: little bit, but again I wasn't following professional track and
Speaker 2: field that closely. It's not something I inspired to do
Speaker 2: because I didn't know that it was something that I
Speaker 2: actually could do, especially for someone who just didn't do
Speaker 2: you know, club track or any like club sports like that.
Speaker 2: So I never paid that much attention to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also didn't pay much attention to my cross
Speaker 1: country skills similar similar you know, not it had nothing
Speaker 1: to do with lack of ability or you know, slow
Speaker 1: times or anything like that. So you have this great coach,
Speaker 1: you're performing well in high school, but then there is
Speaker 1: this moment where you considered quitting running altogether when you
Speaker 1: were just graduating from high school? What is it that
Speaker 1: led you to continue on at that moment in time.
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of that back and forth
Speaker 2: throughout my entire college career where I was thinking, is
Speaker 2: track and field right for me?
Speaker 3: Is this the path that I want to go down?
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 2: You know, taking opportunities for me? At this point? You
Speaker 2: know what where am I going to go from here?
Speaker 2: And there are so many things that I wanted to accomplish,
Speaker 2: especially after landing at Harvard University, I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: there are just so many things I can steady that
Speaker 2: will take a lot of time. If I want to
Speaker 2: do labs that will take a lot of time. If
Speaker 2: I want to study abroad, that will take a lot
Speaker 2: of time, And I don't know if I can do both.
Speaker 2: I was taking this course sick and tired of being
Speaker 2: sick and tired, and it sparked an interest in me
Speaker 2: in sociology and biology.
Speaker 3: And there were other.
Speaker 2: Things on campus that I wanted to be a part of,
Speaker 2: other organizations and extracurriculars that I wanted to be a
Speaker 2: part of. A lot of social things that I wanted
Speaker 2: to be a part of because That's also the fun
Speaker 2: part of Harvard is like meeting all of these really
Speaker 2: fascinating and interesting people, and it was finding that balance.
Speaker 3: It was very very hard for me to do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit
Speaker 1: more about this really critical class you took at Harvard,
Speaker 1: which seems to have led you to double down on
Speaker 1: your commitment to working in the public health space. Can
Speaker 1: you tell me more about the class.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Sick and Tired of being sick and Tired
Speaker 2: was this freshman seminar that I took in the fall,
Speaker 2: and it was about health disparities and racism and medicine,
Speaker 2: something that I had never been familiar with. We're not
Speaker 2: taught that in school. We're not taught that in high school,
Speaker 2: especially not in the white communities that you know, I
Speaker 2: was growing up in. It was when we were learning
Speaker 2: about the Tuskegee Syphilist Study and we were learning about
Speaker 2: Henrietta Lacks, and these two stories were just great examples
Speaker 2: of how black bodies are disregarded in medicine, and it
Speaker 2: was just very very mind blowing and very impactful.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about this moment I read about
Speaker 1: where you're taking this class it's giving you all sorts
Speaker 1: of new insights about the depths of medical racism that
Speaker 1: plague our country's history and also our country's present. And
Speaker 1: then you speak to your mom about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So my mom is actually a rockster in her own right.
Speaker 2: So she is an education and her whole objective in
Speaker 2: life is to fight racism and education, right, and so
Speaker 2: she's always been one to just fight racial injustice. But
Speaker 2: she's never kind of we never had that conversation right
Speaker 2: about my career, and she's never forced any type of
Speaker 2: career on me. So I think when I called her
Speaker 2: and told her about what I was studying and I
Speaker 2: felt like this fiery passion about it, she was like, yes,
Speaker 2: like this is what you know. We owe it to
Speaker 2: the world to fight these injustices. And she told me,
Speaker 2: you know that I'm put in this position and it's
Speaker 2: not a coincidence, and that this is what I was
Speaker 2: meant to do, and that it's my responsibility, just as
Speaker 2: a black woman, with this opportunity and with this platform,
Speaker 2: to go into it and fight injustice. And so that
Speaker 2: that's something that really stuck with me and inspired me because.
Speaker 3: She she did the same thing.
Speaker 2: And you know, when I look back and I think
Speaker 2: where my mother came from. She came from just complete
Speaker 2: poverty in Mobile, Alabama and worked her way through school
Speaker 2: being you know, just finishing and going through undergrad to
Speaker 2: grad school to PhD and using her experience and her
Speaker 2: mastery and her opportunity to pay it forward and to
Speaker 2: fight for people who are underserved in the world. So yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: my mom inspired me so much to just pay it
Speaker 2: forward and fight the injustices that I'm that I witness.
Speaker 1: So Harvard Gaddy is falling in love with public health
Speaker 1: and you know, aspiring public health official who's helping to
Speaker 1: bridge racial gaps in the system, racial inequity, and yet
Speaker 1: this track thing keeps happening to you. It sounds like, right,
Speaker 1: and it's it's just so fascinating for you to have
Speaker 1: learn more about you because it just it feels like
Speaker 1: running was this continual thing.
Speaker 4: That you just kept falling into.
Speaker 1: Right, It's like this afterthought, but eventually it's just hard
Speaker 1: for you to deny just how remarkable your potential is.
Speaker 4: Right is that?
Speaker 5: Is that?
Speaker 4: Am I accurate in capturing it in that way?
Speaker 3: What it was?
Speaker 2: So yeah, my freshman year track was an afterthought and
Speaker 2: I hated that, and it was something that I was
Speaker 2: incredibly insecure about just being on the team. And you know,
Speaker 2: there's this culture of just being very intense and being
Speaker 2: all in and very committed, and I was going through
Speaker 2: the motions of that because you know, I was doing that.
Speaker 2: I was showing up every day on time when I
Speaker 2: went to the track. I put my one hundred percent
Speaker 2: all into it. But it was so hard for me
Speaker 2: right to actually make that a mental priority the way
Speaker 2: that other things were for me, especially just growing up
Speaker 2: with education being the number one priority and that always
Speaker 2: was and sports were always just something that you did
Speaker 2: after school.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: My freshman year, after I finished it, it became even
Speaker 2: harder because I was doing research at Boston Children's Hospital
Speaker 2: on rut syndrome, which is a form of autism. And
Speaker 2: I wanted to get my foot in the door right
Speaker 2: in research and the neurobiology, and I wanted to have
Speaker 2: that experience because I was afraid that if I didn't,
Speaker 2: then I might fall behind, I might fall behind all
Speaker 2: of my peers who were doing and pursuing their passions.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, that was an Olympic Trials
Speaker 2: year and I was running so fast season, and the
Speaker 2: season just kept going. I had to go to regionals,
Speaker 2: and then I had to go to Nationals, and then
Speaker 2: next with Olympic trials, and so that summer I was
Speaker 2: balancing working my research job and then also doing track
Speaker 2: and field at the end, and also working at the
Speaker 2: dry cleaners because I had to make money, and so
Speaker 2: it was very stressful summer for me, and I felt
Speaker 2: like I was being pulled in every direction and also
Speaker 2: just trying to be a human and live my life
Speaker 2: and have that balance. And so I think what ended
Speaker 2: up making me a little bit resentful of track and
Speaker 2: field during that freshman summer was that I was not
Speaker 2: able to put in the hours that I wanted to
Speaker 2: at my research opportunity, and I felt like I was
Speaker 2: losing so much of that opportunity on this end of
Speaker 2: my life because I had to be all in for
Speaker 2: track and field. You know, once you travel to a meet,
Speaker 2: you can't halfway travel. Your body is fully there and
Speaker 2: you're present there and that's what you have to do.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't be present at my lab and it
Speaker 2: frustrated me, and it made me very very nervous and
Speaker 2: insecure about just what I was going to do outside
Speaker 2: of the track world, and that definitely carried into my
Speaker 2: sophomore year. It was an Olympic year. That was YO
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. And the thing about the trials in twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen is that they actually went really well from me.
Speaker 2: I got sixth place in the final in the two
Speaker 2: hundred and had ran alongside Alison Felix, right, which is
Speaker 2: this amazing and wild dream that I couldn't believe was happening.
Speaker 2: But somehow I was still resentful about it, you know,
Speaker 2: And I've never actually admitted that out loud anywhere to
Speaker 2: anyone except for right now, but that's how I felt.
Speaker 1: Look, Gadby, I love your candor, and I totally understand
Speaker 1: why it's been so hard to admit that, because when
Speaker 1: we admit that we feel resentful about something, we worry
Speaker 1: that in turn we'll face the critique. Shouldn't she just
Speaker 1: be grateful that she's been given all these gifts, as
Speaker 1: though we're not entitled to feel the things that we
Speaker 1: feel as move about in this world, which you absolutely
Speaker 1: are allowed to do. And so I think sharing that
Speaker 1: actually is going to make a lot of people feel
Speaker 1: more comfortable admitting that to themselves because a lot of
Speaker 1: us are out in the world trying to meet other
Speaker 1: people's expectations, feeling like we owe the world something, but
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the right choice for us. And sometimes
Speaker 1: the first step is just saying this mental calculation just
Speaker 1: isn't working for me, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't.
Speaker 2: I was at a crossroads at this point where I
Speaker 2: had to decide what mattered to me and what was
Speaker 2: my priority, and oh man, so I decided to just
Speaker 2: take a trip to Senegal for eight weeks and completely
Speaker 2: reset and not worry about any of it. And in Senegal,
Speaker 2: I studied the culture and the religion. Then I had
Speaker 2: a fun cohort of people, and I didn't train on
Speaker 2: a track for a single second. I didn't do any
Speaker 2: neurobiology work for a single second. And I just did
Speaker 2: what I wanted to do. And I came back and
Speaker 2: was actually I had a very clear mind, and that
Speaker 2: a very clear headspace of what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1: Huh, say more about that, How did it bring you clarity,
Speaker 1: having this reset moment or this brief respite from the
Speaker 1: stresses of your daily life.
Speaker 2: I didn't expect it to be like that, so I
Speaker 2: didn't take the trip thinking, oh, I'm just going to
Speaker 2: reset and figure out what I want to do in
Speaker 2: my life. I think just stepping away from that and
Speaker 2: having the freedom and the liberation to just think for
Speaker 2: myself and be myself and be it so far away
Speaker 2: the thousands of thousands of miles from any of the
Speaker 2: pressure that was being put on me back home. It
Speaker 2: was not having access to social media for majority of
Speaker 2: the time, so not even being able to contact people
Speaker 2: who are asking me to do something or encouraging me
Speaker 2: to do something one way or another. I was just
Speaker 2: completely myself and everything was just completely simplified. So it
Speaker 2: shifted my perspective. I came back and I thought, why
Speaker 2: not just do exactly what I want to do? And
Speaker 2: I knew what I wanted what I didn't want to
Speaker 2: do when I got back there. I knew that I
Speaker 2: didn't want to stress myself out trying to strike this
Speaker 2: balance between between school and track. I just had kind
Speaker 2: of let all that anxiety go and all that pressure go,
Speaker 2: at least for that time. And so my my junior year,
Speaker 2: I somehow just it all just kind of fell together.
Speaker 2: In the classroom. I started taking these fun sociology courses
Speaker 2: that complimented by biology courses and track and field just
Speaker 2: went very well for me that year, and that ended
Speaker 2: up being my breakout year where I broke the collegiate
Speaker 2: record and won the NCAA Championship, which was just ironic
Speaker 2: because I had not even finished my sophomore season. So
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people were just incredibly shocked
Speaker 2: that I would I would come back after that and
Speaker 2: not having trained all summer just to.
Speaker 3: Go do that. But it was just it was a
Speaker 3: mindset shift. It just clicked. Everything came together my junior
Speaker 3: year and I was just how much happier.
Speaker 4: And you enjoyed running your junior year? Is that right
Speaker 4: to say.
Speaker 3: I enjoyed it? Yes? And I enjoyed running.
Speaker 2: I enjoy like I enjoyed being on the track, and
Speaker 2: I enjoyed racing, And that is genuinely when I actually
Speaker 2: loved it.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Gabby, tell me if you think this hypothesis
Speaker 1: is right. But it does feel like, I mean, nothing
Speaker 1: changed about the workouts, nothing changed about how grueling it
Speaker 1: is to be an athlete, But it does seem like
Speaker 1: what changed coming out back from Senegal is that you
Speaker 1: were finally running on your own terms. It was finally
Speaker 1: a decision that you felt you were making that the
Speaker 1: world wasn't making for you. And maybe that's where that
Speaker 1: joy came from.
Speaker 2: I think one hundred percent. I think I had taken
Speaker 2: everything and just put it on my own terms, completely
Speaker 2: running on my own terms, deciding not to be pigeonolled.
Speaker 2: Nothing was made for me. I think that that made
Speaker 2: the difference.
Speaker 1: After the break, we'll hear all about Gabby's journey to
Speaker 1: the Olympics. We'll be back in a moment with a
Speaker 1: slight change of plans. I've got to talk about the
Speaker 1: Olympics and your journey to the Olympics. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: tell me about the twenty twenty one US Olympic trials.
Speaker 1: I have watched that video on loop. It is one
Speaker 1: of the most joyful human moments that, oh my god,
Speaker 1: this is your story to tell.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is definitely the most joyful moment of my life.
Speaker 2: I think that realization that I was crossing the line,
Speaker 2: in the realization that I was going to the Olympics
Speaker 2: right was the first thing that I was very excited about.
Speaker 2: And I realized that, you know, halfway down the street
Speaker 2: at the end of my two hundred meters that I'm
Speaker 2: going to make this Olympic team.
Speaker 3: That's Thomas, Thomas is going to Dan Hello, timeline.
Speaker 1: The line, don't win that moment two day, Thomas is
Speaker 1: going to Tokyo twenty one six.
Speaker 2: And then I realized that I was coming in first
Speaker 2: and winning a national championship and that I was definitely
Speaker 2: making this Olympic team.
Speaker 3: And that was the most joyous moment of all.
Speaker 2: But then there was a realization that my time was
Speaker 2: the second fastest time ever ran behind flow Jo and
Speaker 2: everyone knows flo Jo, And then it was just unbelievable
Speaker 2: for me. I couldn't even hide how excited I was.
Speaker 2: You were not advised to throw your hands in the
Speaker 2: air before you finish the sprint race, but I couldn't
Speaker 2: help it.
Speaker 3: I pictured that. You have no idea how many people
Speaker 3: yelled at me.
Speaker 4: We were all throwing our hands in the air for you.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, Everyone's like, oh, you know, you shouldn't have
Speaker 3: done that. I'm like, I don't care.
Speaker 2: And just the excitement was I can't even explain it.
Speaker 2: It was such an amazing feeling. I pictured the moment
Speaker 2: so many times in my head before actually running the race.
Speaker 2: And then to have that visualization come to life was
Speaker 2: an amazing experience, and especially because leading up to that
Speaker 2: moment just I don't know if people realize, but trials
Speaker 2: is the most stressful thing that I think any any.
Speaker 3: Athlete has will ever do.
Speaker 2: The entire two weeks that I was there, I did
Speaker 2: not eat or sleep because it was just so anxiety inducing.
Speaker 2: And it's just pretty much, you know, for a track athlete,
Speaker 2: it's just you versus the track, so there is there
Speaker 2: are no other factors that go into it.
Speaker 3: There's nobody else you can blame. It's really just you
Speaker 3: and what you've put in.
Speaker 2: So it just made it that much better when I
Speaker 2: actually did make the team, because we all know that
Speaker 2: the Olympic being postponed due to COVID was a whole craziness.
Speaker 2: I you know, I picked up my entire life and
Speaker 2: moved to Austin, Texas to make this Olympic team. So
Speaker 2: everything needed to work out, and so I'm very very
Speaker 2: grateful that it did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and You've said that when you had this magnificent
Speaker 1: performance at trials, all of a sudden there was a
Speaker 1: mindset shift again right where you're going from running track
Speaker 1: to now competing for gold at the Olympics, which is
Speaker 1: obviously an exceptional version of a shift, but I do
Speaker 1: think it's very relatable for so many of us that
Speaker 1: there are these key moments in life where suddenly our
Speaker 1: goals come into sharp focus and it just really changes
Speaker 1: the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that is actually very true.
Speaker 2: It's funny because I had moved to Austin, Texas at
Speaker 2: the end of twenty nineteen with the intentions of making
Speaker 2: the Olympic team and then very possibly just moving on
Speaker 2: from track and field after accomplishing that and pursuing public
Speaker 2: health or pursuing a career that I wanted, you know,
Speaker 2: something else that I wanted to do with, you know,
Speaker 2: going to school and getting a master's in public health
Speaker 2: and then working after that. But after I made the
Speaker 2: team with a time like that, yeah, suddenly I decided, Okay,
Speaker 2: well now I can actually go for a gold medal.
Speaker 2: And so that was it was such a rapid shift
Speaker 2: and so rapid and huge, and I just felt it
Speaker 2: so holy.
Speaker 3: And then, you know, when I was at the Olympics.
Speaker 2: It was a shift because now decided that I'm probably
Speaker 2: going to continue running for through the next Olympics, and
Speaker 2: that just wasn't what I had in mind before. It
Speaker 2: was definitely a change in plans, and so now I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm focused on that, right And now I'm focusing
Speaker 2: on World Championships this next year, and then World Championships
Speaker 2: again and then the Olympics.
Speaker 1: By the way, I'm glad you omitted the slight part
Speaker 1: of the change in plants. I think this is a
Speaker 1: sizeable change in plans. I've got rid of the cheeky slight. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was sizable.
Speaker 4: So how has this influenced how you see the coming years?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: So, you you're, from what I understand, currently pursuing your
Speaker 1: masters in epidemiology in Texas. You said you are competing
Speaker 1: or you plan to compete in the World Championships. Is
Speaker 1: this now the new balancing act for Gabby Thomas?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I do what I can, and so yeah,
Speaker 2: right now, I'm currently getting my masters in public health,
Speaker 2: specifically epidemiology and healthcare administration, and I am still competing
Speaker 2: and I plan to be competing in track and field
Speaker 2: for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I was gonna say, you know less. Listeners
Speaker 1: think it was like a super clear cut decision. Again,
Speaker 1: from what I understand, you did think you might quit
Speaker 1: track again even after the Olympics.
Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, I did think. I did think
Speaker 3: I might quit, or i'll call it retire, retire. I
Speaker 3: feels a little nicer than quitting.
Speaker 1: Okay, Daddy was on record is potentially wanting to retire.
Speaker 1: Can you can you tell me more about about that decision,
Speaker 1: because like, again, look, I think it's very easy for
Speaker 1: all of us to look at you and be like
Speaker 1: Gabby Thomas, that girl's got it figured out, and and
Speaker 1: knowing that even in that moment after winning these two
Speaker 1: medals at the Olympics, you're still like, eh, maybe maybe
Speaker 1: I'm done. You know, in those moments, what's the calculation
Speaker 1: you're doing in your head? Like what would need to
Speaker 1: be in what needs to be in place for you
Speaker 1: to say, Okay, yeah I'm continuing running.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's actually really funny because I decided that the reason
Speaker 2: why I want to retire or very possibly thought about retiring,
Speaker 2: was because like, just like in college, I think it
Speaker 2: was a similar thing where there were so many things
Speaker 2: that I wanted to pursue, and I was told that
Speaker 2: as a pro athlete that you had to fully commit
Speaker 2: to being a professional athlete, and what I learned in
Speaker 2: the last year was that that was not the case,
Speaker 2: and I had to take a risk, and I was
Speaker 2: told that I may have been doing too much and
Speaker 2: that I was very risky. Again, I was told not
Speaker 2: to move to Austin, Texas during an Olympic year. I
Speaker 2: was told that I should not be taking classes, I
Speaker 2: should not be working while training. It was doing too much.
Speaker 2: And I realized it wasn't. And the reason that is
Speaker 2: is because I loved everything that I was doing, and
Speaker 2: everything that I was doing was recharging and it was
Speaker 2: fueling me. So when I was in school, I couldn't
Speaker 2: wait to get to the track, and when I was,
Speaker 2: you know, at the track, I couldn't wait to go
Speaker 2: back and just hang out and be in my class
Speaker 2: and not be dying by four hundreds.
Speaker 3: So they both kind of like recharged each other.
Speaker 2: And so when I realized that, I thought, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: I can definitely do both at a great level, and
Speaker 2: so why not do it? And if there ever comes
Speaker 2: a time where I do feel like it's too much,
Speaker 2: then I'll dial it back a little bit. Or if
Speaker 2: there's ever a time where I feel like I need
Speaker 2: to shift gears because I'm like, hey, I don't like
Speaker 2: what I'm doing anymore.
Speaker 3: I think that's okay too. The only real pressure I
Speaker 3: feel is the external pressure.
Speaker 2: Right. It's like this idea they nicknamed me wonder Woman,
Speaker 2: that I'm doing all of these things and I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Them all so well.
Speaker 2: Well, I would hate to let anyone down. But you know,
Speaker 2: at the same time, I am doing all of these
Speaker 2: things well because I continue to choose me and to
Speaker 2: choose what makes me happy. So if I want to
Speaker 2: shift gears again one day after getting my master's in
Speaker 2: public health, I am one hundred percent okay with that.
Speaker 2: If one day I wake up and decide that track
Speaker 2: is not for me, then I'm okay with that too.
Speaker 2: But for now, they're both going well, and I'm having
Speaker 2: so much fun and I'm loving it. I'm loving my
Speaker 2: life and I'm loving the decisions and choices that I've
Speaker 2: made for myself. And I I'm deciding to continue to
Speaker 2: choose both.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Gaby, thank you.
Speaker 3: It's just so much fun.
Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for listening. Join me next week, and I
Speaker 1: really mean next week when I talk with psychologist Angela
Speaker 1: Duckworth about the science of grit and how natural talent
Speaker 1: and ability will only get you so far.
Speaker 5: I really don't know anybody who has become you know,
Speaker 5: world class in economics or at you know, being a
Speaker 5: political leader or anything else. You know, a classroom teacher,
Speaker 5: a nurse like without you know, just years and years
Speaker 5: of effort.
Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is created, written and executive
Speaker 1: produced by me Maya Shunker. The best part of creating
Speaker 1: this show is getting to collaborate with my formidable Slight
Speaker 1: Change family. This includes Tyler Green, our senior producer, Jen Guera,
Speaker 1: our senior editor, Ben Holliday, our sound engineer, Emily Rosstek
Speaker 1: our associate producer, and Neil LaBelle our executive producer. Louis
Speaker 1: Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped
Speaker 1: arrange the vocals. A Slight Change of Plans is a
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries, so big thanks to everyone there,
Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Wae.
Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram
Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Shunker, and please remember to subscribe, share
Speaker 1: and rate the show to help get the word out.
Speaker 4: See you next week.
Speaker 3: I don't plan on retiring anytime soon. Maybe when I'm
Speaker 3: thirty five.
Speaker 1: You're telling me it's too late, Gabby, because I turned
Speaker 1: thirty six in a few weeks. My dreams are Overdy's
Speaker 1: going to require thirty five, folks, I'm over the hill.
Speaker 2: I know actually quite a few thirty five year olds
Speaker 2: who actually competed for US.
Speaker 3: I did very well. Chance, Yeah, it's still a fighting chance.