1 00:00:14,956 --> 00:00:33,076 Speaker 1: Pushkin, Hey, slight Changers. I cannot believe the Olympics are over. 2 00:00:33,676 --> 00:00:36,476 Speaker 1: I am in total denial over here, as I've been 3 00:00:36,476 --> 00:00:40,676 Speaker 1: tuning in most evenings to watch the coverage this Olympics. 4 00:00:40,876 --> 00:00:43,876 Speaker 1: I followed so many sports, but there was one athlete 5 00:00:43,876 --> 00:00:47,196 Speaker 1: in particular that I was very excited to watch, and 6 00:00:47,236 --> 00:00:50,796 Speaker 1: that's US track star Gabby Thomas. I actually interviewed Gabby 7 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:53,276 Speaker 1: on A Slight Change of Plans back in twenty twenty one, 8 00:00:54,076 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 1: and she absolutely crushed it in Paris. So she won 9 00:00:58,436 --> 00:01:01,236 Speaker 1: her first individual gold medal in the two hundred meter 10 00:01:01,356 --> 00:01:04,116 Speaker 1: race and then went on to win two more gold 11 00:01:04,156 --> 00:01:08,236 Speaker 1: medals in team relay races. When I spoke with Gabby 12 00:01:08,316 --> 00:01:11,796 Speaker 1: on the show after her Olympic debut in Tokyo, she 13 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:15,796 Speaker 1: was incredibly open about her young life and her complicated 14 00:01:15,836 --> 00:01:19,396 Speaker 1: relationship with track and field. She defied many of the 15 00:01:19,396 --> 00:01:23,076 Speaker 1: stereotypes I had around what someone has to be like 16 00:01:23,196 --> 00:01:27,796 Speaker 1: in order to become an Olympian. Gabby's thoughtful reflections really 17 00:01:27,876 --> 00:01:30,756 Speaker 1: embody the spirit of A Slight Change of Plans, and 18 00:01:30,796 --> 00:01:33,916 Speaker 1: they struck me even more powerfully after her wins in Paris. 19 00:01:34,356 --> 00:01:41,636 Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoyed this conversation. When I first 20 00:01:41,716 --> 00:01:44,956 Speaker 1: heard about Gabby's ascent in track and field, I assumed 21 00:01:44,956 --> 00:01:48,836 Speaker 1: her relationship with running was a relatively straightforward, one passion 22 00:01:48,876 --> 00:01:52,276 Speaker 1: at an early age match with a singular focus. But 23 00:01:52,356 --> 00:01:55,996 Speaker 1: that wasn't the case. I discovered that Gabby had competing 24 00:01:56,036 --> 00:01:58,996 Speaker 1: interests and as a result, her focus was pulled in 25 00:01:59,076 --> 00:02:02,516 Speaker 1: different directions over the course of her life, especially during 26 00:02:02,556 --> 00:02:06,036 Speaker 1: her time as a Harvard undergrad, and this tension has 27 00:02:06,116 --> 00:02:09,516 Speaker 1: led Gabby to continually question which path she to take. 28 00:02:10,236 --> 00:02:13,716 Speaker 1: At times, She's even considered whether she should quit track altogether. 29 00:02:15,836 --> 00:02:18,116 Speaker 1: And so, because the show is all about how we 30 00:02:18,196 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 1: navigate those big inflection moments in our lives, I thought 31 00:02:21,436 --> 00:02:24,996 Speaker 1: we could learn a lot from Gabby's story of change. 32 00:02:25,196 --> 00:02:27,916 Speaker 1: I'm Maya Shunker and this is a slight change of plans, 33 00:02:28,316 --> 00:02:30,516 Speaker 1: a show about who we are and who we become 34 00:02:30,996 --> 00:02:46,316 Speaker 1: in the face of a big change. So I'd love 35 00:02:46,356 --> 00:02:49,156 Speaker 1: to start by going all the way back to your childhood. 36 00:02:49,556 --> 00:02:51,756 Speaker 1: I think one thing a lot of people might not 37 00:02:51,796 --> 00:02:54,636 Speaker 1: know about your story is that growing up you had 38 00:02:54,676 --> 00:02:58,036 Speaker 1: no interest in being an athlete, right you wanted to 39 00:02:58,076 --> 00:03:01,356 Speaker 1: study neurobiology. And I'm wondering if you can tell me 40 00:03:01,436 --> 00:03:04,396 Speaker 1: more about your family and how it led you down 41 00:03:04,436 --> 00:03:04,916 Speaker 1: that path. 42 00:03:05,996 --> 00:03:10,116 Speaker 2: In terms of going into neurobiology, that came from very 43 00:03:10,156 --> 00:03:14,516 Speaker 2: personal experiences within my own family and just seeing how 44 00:03:15,356 --> 00:03:19,396 Speaker 2: my brothers who are neuro atypical and who they are 45 00:03:19,596 --> 00:03:23,476 Speaker 2: and how they navigated life. One of my younger brothers 46 00:03:23,636 --> 00:03:26,836 Speaker 2: has autism. He has Aspergers and he was diagnosed at 47 00:03:26,836 --> 00:03:29,956 Speaker 2: the age of four, I believe, and just watching how 48 00:03:29,996 --> 00:03:33,156 Speaker 2: he navigates the world and how the world isn't exactly 49 00:03:33,196 --> 00:03:36,076 Speaker 2: built for him, but he's so special and amazing in 50 00:03:36,116 --> 00:03:37,916 Speaker 2: his own way. And then I have my twin brother 51 00:03:37,956 --> 00:03:41,636 Speaker 2: who just battled Adhd I believe he was diagnosed at eight, 52 00:03:42,316 --> 00:03:45,396 Speaker 2: and going through that and going through the school system 53 00:03:45,756 --> 00:03:47,676 Speaker 2: and having to deal with that and having things not 54 00:03:47,756 --> 00:03:50,036 Speaker 2: really be adopted towards you, but you know, they have 55 00:03:50,116 --> 00:03:51,996 Speaker 2: to adapt towards the world. 56 00:03:51,756 --> 00:03:52,476 Speaker 3: That they're living in. 57 00:03:52,916 --> 00:03:54,956 Speaker 2: So at the end of the day, at this point, 58 00:03:54,996 --> 00:03:57,276 Speaker 2: I decided that I wanted to study the nervous system 59 00:03:57,516 --> 00:03:59,116 Speaker 2: and just explore that area. 60 00:03:59,276 --> 00:04:02,156 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, Gaddy, was there a specific moment in 61 00:04:02,196 --> 00:04:05,276 Speaker 1: your life where you thought, Okay, this is what I 62 00:04:05,316 --> 00:04:06,436 Speaker 1: have to do with my life. 63 00:04:06,676 --> 00:04:08,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was definitely a moment when I was in 64 00:04:08,516 --> 00:04:12,476 Speaker 2: high school, this random morning getting ready for school, My mom, 65 00:04:12,676 --> 00:04:14,356 Speaker 2: my twin brother, and I were all in the kitchen, 66 00:04:14,396 --> 00:04:16,476 Speaker 2: sitting at the kitchen table, just getting ready like we 67 00:04:16,516 --> 00:04:16,956 Speaker 2: normally do. 68 00:04:17,116 --> 00:04:18,596 Speaker 3: I was fixing a bowl of cereal. 69 00:04:18,716 --> 00:04:21,076 Speaker 2: My brother was just grabbing his backpack getting ready to go, 70 00:04:21,676 --> 00:04:23,956 Speaker 2: and my mom had asked him if he had taken 71 00:04:23,996 --> 00:04:27,236 Speaker 2: its medication for school that day, and he said no, 72 00:04:27,956 --> 00:04:30,036 Speaker 2: And of course, you know, she's thinking, well why not, 73 00:04:30,236 --> 00:04:33,516 Speaker 2: because this is your normal. We should be taking medication 74 00:04:33,636 --> 00:04:35,636 Speaker 2: so that you can go and focus. Then he had 75 00:04:35,676 --> 00:04:38,156 Speaker 2: mentioned that he could not take the side effects anymore, 76 00:04:38,156 --> 00:04:41,076 Speaker 2: he didn't like how it made him feel. And for me, 77 00:04:41,236 --> 00:04:44,156 Speaker 2: what I had noticed in the weeks, even months prior 78 00:04:44,196 --> 00:04:47,876 Speaker 2: to that exact moment, was that my brother was very 79 00:04:47,916 --> 00:04:50,236 Speaker 2: different from the brother that I had grown up with. 80 00:04:50,716 --> 00:04:54,596 Speaker 2: He was just this very very active and fun and 81 00:04:54,716 --> 00:04:58,756 Speaker 2: silly kid. And then you notice as he would switch 82 00:04:58,836 --> 00:05:03,996 Speaker 2: the medication, he just seemed so so somber and just 83 00:05:04,076 --> 00:05:07,076 Speaker 2: not quite himself. And I think we all noticed it, 84 00:05:07,196 --> 00:05:09,796 Speaker 2: and my mom had gotten to a point where she 85 00:05:10,076 --> 00:05:12,956 Speaker 2: did not know what to do, and the frustration just 86 00:05:12,996 --> 00:05:16,636 Speaker 2: set in and my mom just started crying I had 87 00:05:16,796 --> 00:05:19,316 Speaker 2: never seen her cry like that, and I think it 88 00:05:19,356 --> 00:05:22,556 Speaker 2: was very it was shocking for me, probably for my 89 00:05:22,596 --> 00:05:24,716 Speaker 2: twin brother too, but definitely very shocking for me to 90 00:05:24,756 --> 00:05:29,076 Speaker 2: witness that and to see that frustration and just not 91 00:05:29,276 --> 00:05:32,396 Speaker 2: knowing what steps to take next. And so I think 92 00:05:32,436 --> 00:05:34,756 Speaker 2: in that moment, yeah, I was very curious about it. 93 00:05:34,836 --> 00:05:37,916 Speaker 2: I was wondering, well, why is it, Why is this 94 00:05:37,996 --> 00:05:40,116 Speaker 2: his only option? Why is it that he has to 95 00:05:40,596 --> 00:05:43,716 Speaker 2: be altering himself and who he is? So I was, Yeah, 96 00:05:43,756 --> 00:05:46,076 Speaker 2: I was maybe sixteen at this time, and I decided 97 00:05:46,116 --> 00:05:48,516 Speaker 2: that I wanted to go into neurobiology and study it. 98 00:05:49,156 --> 00:05:51,196 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I can imagine as his sister, just 99 00:05:51,236 --> 00:05:53,196 Speaker 1: feeling so helpless, like, why is he having to make 100 00:05:53,236 --> 00:05:56,636 Speaker 1: this trade off between feeling like himself and getting his 101 00:05:56,676 --> 00:05:57,356 Speaker 1: schoolwork done? 102 00:05:57,436 --> 00:05:57,556 Speaker 4: Right? 103 00:05:57,556 --> 00:06:00,276 Speaker 3: That's not right? And it's also as his twin sister, right. 104 00:06:00,356 --> 00:06:02,316 Speaker 2: So I just I grew up with him and I 105 00:06:02,316 --> 00:06:06,036 Speaker 2: did everything with him, and we just did everything together, 106 00:06:06,116 --> 00:06:08,076 Speaker 2: and he was my best friend growing up. 107 00:06:08,156 --> 00:06:09,276 Speaker 3: And she just see. 108 00:06:10,996 --> 00:06:14,836 Speaker 2: That kind of helplessness from someone who truly is just 109 00:06:14,836 --> 00:06:18,796 Speaker 2: feels like a part of me was it was pretty shocking. 110 00:06:19,076 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 1: Wow, that's so beautiful. I mean, I can hear the 111 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 1: passion and curiosity in your voice even now, you know, 112 00:06:24,596 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: just talking about this, I love to pivot to running 113 00:06:28,396 --> 00:06:31,196 Speaker 1: for a moment. I love the fact that you've been 114 00:06:31,676 --> 00:06:36,116 Speaker 1: able to occupy these two very distinct worlds in your life, 115 00:06:36,156 --> 00:06:39,636 Speaker 1: you know, track and public health. And also there's been 116 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:42,716 Speaker 1: so many ebbs and flows in your drive and motivation 117 00:06:42,836 --> 00:06:45,396 Speaker 1: along the way, and to me, that's a part of 118 00:06:45,436 --> 00:06:49,556 Speaker 1: your story that feels so relatable. I can't relate to 119 00:06:49,636 --> 00:06:54,676 Speaker 1: being an incredibly fast runner, though. Note please that I 120 00:06:54,796 --> 00:06:57,316 Speaker 1: was on the cross country team in high school and 121 00:06:57,436 --> 00:06:59,276 Speaker 1: it was notably a walk on team, which is the 122 00:06:59,276 --> 00:07:00,916 Speaker 1: only reason that I was on the cross country team 123 00:07:00,916 --> 00:07:04,996 Speaker 1: in high school that I did log in my five k's. Anyway, Yeah, 124 00:07:05,076 --> 00:07:07,956 Speaker 1: the part that's so relatable to me is that you know, 125 00:07:07,996 --> 00:07:11,796 Speaker 1: we all question at some point or another whether we're 126 00:07:11,796 --> 00:07:14,396 Speaker 1: on the right path or whether we should change course. 127 00:07:14,596 --> 00:07:17,676 Speaker 1: And it was so reassuring for me, and I'm sure 128 00:07:17,716 --> 00:07:20,396 Speaker 1: we'll be so reassuring for so many listeners that you 129 00:07:20,476 --> 00:07:24,036 Speaker 1: fall into this camp too. I so appreciated the fact 130 00:07:24,076 --> 00:07:27,276 Speaker 1: that you've said you didn't actually love running it first. 131 00:07:27,636 --> 00:07:29,876 Speaker 1: And the reason I love that, Gavy is because it runs. 132 00:07:29,916 --> 00:07:33,956 Speaker 1: So counter to the typical romantic story you hear from Olympians, 133 00:07:34,036 --> 00:07:36,236 Speaker 1: right that it was like love it first step or 134 00:07:36,276 --> 00:07:38,836 Speaker 1: love it first jump or whatever you know you hear 135 00:07:38,876 --> 00:07:42,796 Speaker 1: out there, and so you know your story. It just 136 00:07:42,836 --> 00:07:45,596 Speaker 1: feels kind of normal and an interesting way, right. It 137 00:07:45,596 --> 00:07:49,556 Speaker 1: shows that passion can be cultivated. And so just bring 138 00:07:49,596 --> 00:07:51,876 Speaker 1: me back to your first encounter with running. 139 00:07:51,996 --> 00:07:53,596 Speaker 4: I'm wondering what that exposure was like. 140 00:07:54,116 --> 00:07:56,356 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's actually very funny that you bring that up, 141 00:07:56,396 --> 00:07:57,836 Speaker 2: because a lot of times I do just kind of 142 00:07:57,836 --> 00:08:00,956 Speaker 2: feel like such a phony, being like the only pro 143 00:08:00,996 --> 00:08:03,676 Speaker 2: track athlete who didn't want to go into track and field. 144 00:08:03,716 --> 00:08:05,636 Speaker 2: Whenever I talk about it with people, it's always like, 145 00:08:05,716 --> 00:08:08,516 Speaker 2: what are you talking about? So, what are you doing here? 146 00:08:09,156 --> 00:08:11,596 Speaker 2: You can cultivate it. But yeah, so I got into 147 00:08:11,636 --> 00:08:15,076 Speaker 2: track in middle school. My mom forced me to do it, 148 00:08:15,316 --> 00:08:17,116 Speaker 2: and at the time I didn't want to go. None 149 00:08:17,116 --> 00:08:19,876 Speaker 2: of my friends were doing it, and I, quite frankly, 150 00:08:19,876 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 2: I didn't want to run. Soccer was my first love, 151 00:08:22,916 --> 00:08:25,316 Speaker 2: and they knew I was fast because I would run 152 00:08:25,316 --> 00:08:27,156 Speaker 2: the ball in soccer and that was all I knew 153 00:08:27,156 --> 00:08:28,916 Speaker 2: about running, and I knew I didn't want. 154 00:08:28,756 --> 00:08:29,116 Speaker 3: To do it. 155 00:08:29,316 --> 00:08:31,436 Speaker 2: But I ended up going and being on the team 156 00:08:32,196 --> 00:08:34,916 Speaker 2: and just running really fast, and from then on it 157 00:08:34,956 --> 00:08:36,636 Speaker 2: was almost as if I didn't really have a choice 158 00:08:36,676 --> 00:08:38,916 Speaker 2: but to do track and field because I was winning 159 00:08:39,716 --> 00:08:42,676 Speaker 2: every race that I was put in, whether I just 160 00:08:42,796 --> 00:08:45,716 Speaker 2: varied across a sprints and then even the jumps, So 161 00:08:45,756 --> 00:08:47,356 Speaker 2: I was kind of in this position where I felt 162 00:08:47,356 --> 00:08:48,236 Speaker 2: obligated to do it. 163 00:08:48,516 --> 00:08:50,556 Speaker 1: Tell me more about that, because that is so interesting, 164 00:08:50,716 --> 00:08:54,316 Speaker 1: right that when we see success in ourselves, even if 165 00:08:54,316 --> 00:08:58,596 Speaker 1: it doesn't align with an active passion, we feel compelled 166 00:08:58,636 --> 00:09:00,596 Speaker 1: in some way, like we owe it to the world 167 00:09:00,796 --> 00:09:01,596 Speaker 1: or owe it to ourselves. 168 00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:02,316 Speaker 4: I don't know what it is. 169 00:09:02,676 --> 00:09:03,876 Speaker 3: That's exactly how I felt. 170 00:09:03,996 --> 00:09:05,436 Speaker 4: Yeah, tell me more about that. 171 00:09:05,436 --> 00:09:07,756 Speaker 2: That's exactly how I felt. I felt like I just 172 00:09:07,836 --> 00:09:10,076 Speaker 2: owed it to the world. You have all these people 173 00:09:10,116 --> 00:09:12,276 Speaker 2: who are congratulating me, telling me how proud they were 174 00:09:12,276 --> 00:09:13,916 Speaker 2: of me, and they were so happy to have me 175 00:09:13,956 --> 00:09:16,076 Speaker 2: on the team and have me running. I just felt 176 00:09:16,076 --> 00:09:18,596 Speaker 2: like I would have been a very big disappointment if 177 00:09:18,636 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 2: I did not continue to run. 178 00:09:20,356 --> 00:09:21,636 Speaker 3: It's a very weird feeling, and. 179 00:09:22,836 --> 00:09:24,796 Speaker 2: In hindsight, it's easy to say, Okay, well, then why 180 00:09:24,836 --> 00:09:27,396 Speaker 2: did you continue to do it? But I think that's 181 00:09:27,556 --> 00:09:29,316 Speaker 2: a lot of time. That's how we operate, and you 182 00:09:29,356 --> 00:09:31,716 Speaker 2: want to be successful so badly that sometimes you're just 183 00:09:31,756 --> 00:09:34,836 Speaker 2: willing to like overlook whatever is making you happy. Actually, 184 00:09:35,636 --> 00:09:37,636 Speaker 2: it is this interesting thing that we do in society 185 00:09:37,916 --> 00:09:40,756 Speaker 2: where you kind of just don't want to waste your talent, right, 186 00:09:41,636 --> 00:09:44,516 Speaker 2: And I had that talent, and at the end of 187 00:09:44,556 --> 00:09:46,876 Speaker 2: the day, you know, I do find that people do 188 00:09:47,116 --> 00:09:48,996 Speaker 2: enjoy things that they're good at, and that is a 189 00:09:48,996 --> 00:09:51,396 Speaker 2: true statement. But at the time, I didn't, you know, 190 00:09:51,516 --> 00:09:53,916 Speaker 2: that was fine. I just continued to do it and 191 00:09:53,956 --> 00:09:55,676 Speaker 2: I just found joy in the little parts of it, 192 00:09:55,836 --> 00:09:57,756 Speaker 2: made some friends on the team, and you know, you 193 00:09:57,796 --> 00:09:59,156 Speaker 2: just find little aspects that you like. 194 00:09:59,236 --> 00:10:01,916 Speaker 3: But ultimately track wasn't. I didn't want it to be 195 00:10:01,956 --> 00:10:02,316 Speaker 3: my thing. 196 00:10:02,876 --> 00:10:05,676 Speaker 2: And then at some point, you know, I kept doing 197 00:10:05,676 --> 00:10:08,876 Speaker 2: it through middle school, and then it was my software 198 00:10:08,956 --> 00:10:12,716 Speaker 2: year in high school when I actually started to enjoy 199 00:10:12,796 --> 00:10:16,476 Speaker 2: it and set goals for myself and actually be pretty 200 00:10:17,196 --> 00:10:19,956 Speaker 2: motivated and determined in the actual sport. 201 00:10:20,116 --> 00:10:21,996 Speaker 1: What do you think changed for you? What led you 202 00:10:22,036 --> 00:10:25,996 Speaker 1: to suddenly start articulating these goals. It turned into a 203 00:10:26,636 --> 00:10:29,076 Speaker 1: thing you were doing for grudgingly to a thing that 204 00:10:29,156 --> 00:10:30,716 Speaker 1: was actually driving you day to day. 205 00:10:31,236 --> 00:10:33,596 Speaker 2: Well, part of it was I'm like, if I'm going 206 00:10:33,676 --> 00:10:35,556 Speaker 2: to be here every day in the spring, then I 207 00:10:35,596 --> 00:10:38,716 Speaker 2: should probably figure out a way to love it. But 208 00:10:38,756 --> 00:10:40,636 Speaker 2: the biggest part of it was I had a coach 209 00:10:40,836 --> 00:10:45,396 Speaker 2: who was pushing me a lot and actually just taught 210 00:10:45,436 --> 00:10:49,196 Speaker 2: me a lot about working hard and actually getting out 211 00:10:49,196 --> 00:10:51,356 Speaker 2: what you put in, and that's something that I had 212 00:10:51,396 --> 00:10:54,116 Speaker 2: not really experienced before. So it was kind of just 213 00:10:54,596 --> 00:10:58,276 Speaker 2: a mindset shift that was like, you know, it actually 214 00:10:58,356 --> 00:11:01,756 Speaker 2: kind of transcended track and field itself and it more 215 00:11:01,876 --> 00:11:05,676 Speaker 2: just became something about me growing as a person. So 216 00:11:05,716 --> 00:11:09,876 Speaker 2: it really wasn't about loving the running itself, loving running 217 00:11:09,876 --> 00:11:11,836 Speaker 2: that two hundred meters, but it was more like, Okay, 218 00:11:12,356 --> 00:11:14,156 Speaker 2: if I'm going to do this, I'm gonna work hard 219 00:11:14,156 --> 00:11:15,596 Speaker 2: here and then I'm going to see the results. 220 00:11:15,596 --> 00:11:17,956 Speaker 3: And that was rewarding part that that I found to 221 00:11:18,036 --> 00:11:18,676 Speaker 3: enjoy about it. 222 00:11:19,276 --> 00:11:21,276 Speaker 1: Were there any role models you had in this space, 223 00:11:21,396 --> 00:11:24,396 Speaker 1: anyone you saw crushing it out there that. 224 00:11:24,876 --> 00:11:27,516 Speaker 3: Let you up. Yeah, Well, Allison Felix was always my 225 00:11:27,596 --> 00:11:28,036 Speaker 3: role model. 226 00:11:28,156 --> 00:11:31,796 Speaker 2: I remember when I was gosh, I had to be 227 00:11:31,836 --> 00:11:34,836 Speaker 2: in middle school at my grandmother's house and the Olympic 228 00:11:34,876 --> 00:11:36,796 Speaker 2: Trials were on and my mom told me to turn 229 00:11:36,796 --> 00:11:38,756 Speaker 2: on the TV because there was someone on the screen 230 00:11:38,796 --> 00:11:42,716 Speaker 2: that just reminded her of me. She had these long 231 00:11:42,796 --> 00:11:45,756 Speaker 2: legs and she was just absolutely crushing it with grace 232 00:11:45,836 --> 00:11:48,876 Speaker 2: and poise, And at the time I thought nothing about it. 233 00:11:49,196 --> 00:11:51,476 Speaker 2: I said that is great for her, and my mom 234 00:11:51,556 --> 00:11:53,316 Speaker 2: was like, you could be an Olympian one day, and 235 00:11:53,356 --> 00:11:57,156 Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, sounds great. Mom, so happy for Allison, 236 00:11:57,236 --> 00:12:01,916 Speaker 2: but that's not my path. I just never considered it. 237 00:12:02,316 --> 00:12:05,556 Speaker 2: And after that, you know, I followed Allison's career a 238 00:12:05,596 --> 00:12:08,316 Speaker 2: little bit, but again I wasn't following professional track and 239 00:12:08,356 --> 00:12:12,076 Speaker 2: field that closely. It's not something I inspired to do 240 00:12:12,156 --> 00:12:14,116 Speaker 2: because I didn't know that it was something that I 241 00:12:14,116 --> 00:12:16,996 Speaker 2: actually could do, especially for someone who just didn't do 242 00:12:17,316 --> 00:12:20,276 Speaker 2: you know, club track or any like club sports like that. 243 00:12:20,676 --> 00:12:22,556 Speaker 2: So I never paid that much attention to it. 244 00:12:22,996 --> 00:12:24,956 Speaker 1: Yeah, I also didn't pay much attention to my cross 245 00:12:24,956 --> 00:12:27,916 Speaker 1: country skills similar similar you know, not it had nothing 246 00:12:27,956 --> 00:12:30,036 Speaker 1: to do with lack of ability or you know, slow 247 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:34,036 Speaker 1: times or anything like that. So you have this great coach, 248 00:12:34,476 --> 00:12:36,436 Speaker 1: you're performing well in high school, but then there is 249 00:12:36,476 --> 00:12:39,996 Speaker 1: this moment where you considered quitting running altogether when you 250 00:12:40,036 --> 00:12:43,076 Speaker 1: were just graduating from high school? What is it that 251 00:12:43,196 --> 00:12:46,196 Speaker 1: led you to continue on at that moment in time. 252 00:12:46,836 --> 00:12:48,516 Speaker 2: So there was a lot of that back and forth 253 00:12:48,596 --> 00:12:51,796 Speaker 2: throughout my entire college career where I was thinking, is 254 00:12:51,836 --> 00:12:52,876 Speaker 2: track and field right for me? 255 00:12:53,076 --> 00:12:54,596 Speaker 3: Is this the path that I want to go down? 256 00:12:55,276 --> 00:12:55,516 Speaker 3: Is it? 257 00:12:55,996 --> 00:12:58,316 Speaker 2: You know, taking opportunities for me? At this point? You 258 00:12:58,316 --> 00:13:00,996 Speaker 2: know what where am I going to go from here? 259 00:13:01,436 --> 00:13:03,316 Speaker 2: And there are so many things that I wanted to accomplish, 260 00:13:03,716 --> 00:13:06,916 Speaker 2: especially after landing at Harvard University, I thought, you know, 261 00:13:07,076 --> 00:13:09,756 Speaker 2: there are just so many things I can steady that 262 00:13:09,836 --> 00:13:12,076 Speaker 2: will take a lot of time. If I want to 263 00:13:12,116 --> 00:13:14,196 Speaker 2: do labs that will take a lot of time. If 264 00:13:14,236 --> 00:13:15,716 Speaker 2: I want to study abroad, that will take a lot 265 00:13:15,716 --> 00:13:17,636 Speaker 2: of time, And I don't know if I can do both. 266 00:13:17,836 --> 00:13:19,756 Speaker 2: I was taking this course sick and tired of being 267 00:13:19,756 --> 00:13:22,476 Speaker 2: sick and tired, and it sparked an interest in me 268 00:13:22,916 --> 00:13:24,756 Speaker 2: in sociology and biology. 269 00:13:25,276 --> 00:13:26,516 Speaker 3: And there were other. 270 00:13:26,396 --> 00:13:28,316 Speaker 2: Things on campus that I wanted to be a part of, 271 00:13:28,356 --> 00:13:30,676 Speaker 2: other organizations and extracurriculars that I wanted to be a 272 00:13:30,716 --> 00:13:33,396 Speaker 2: part of. A lot of social things that I wanted 273 00:13:33,396 --> 00:13:34,916 Speaker 2: to be a part of because That's also the fun 274 00:13:34,956 --> 00:13:37,036 Speaker 2: part of Harvard is like meeting all of these really 275 00:13:37,076 --> 00:13:41,516 Speaker 2: fascinating and interesting people, and it was finding that balance. 276 00:13:41,556 --> 00:13:42,996 Speaker 3: It was very very hard for me to do. 277 00:13:43,356 --> 00:13:44,996 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering if we can talk a little bit 278 00:13:44,996 --> 00:13:48,356 Speaker 1: more about this really critical class you took at Harvard, 279 00:13:49,556 --> 00:13:51,236 Speaker 1: which seems to have led you to double down on 280 00:13:51,276 --> 00:13:54,516 Speaker 1: your commitment to working in the public health space. Can 281 00:13:54,516 --> 00:13:56,076 Speaker 1: you tell me more about the class. 282 00:13:56,316 --> 00:13:58,436 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, Sick and Tired of being sick and Tired 283 00:13:58,556 --> 00:14:00,996 Speaker 2: was this freshman seminar that I took in the fall, 284 00:14:01,436 --> 00:14:05,436 Speaker 2: and it was about health disparities and racism and medicine, 285 00:14:05,876 --> 00:14:09,636 Speaker 2: something that I had never been familiar with. We're not 286 00:14:09,676 --> 00:14:12,036 Speaker 2: taught that in school. We're not taught that in high school, 287 00:14:12,436 --> 00:14:14,556 Speaker 2: especially not in the white communities that you know, I 288 00:14:14,636 --> 00:14:17,636 Speaker 2: was growing up in. It was when we were learning 289 00:14:17,676 --> 00:14:21,316 Speaker 2: about the Tuskegee Syphilist Study and we were learning about 290 00:14:21,356 --> 00:14:26,516 Speaker 2: Henrietta Lacks, and these two stories were just great examples 291 00:14:26,556 --> 00:14:30,596 Speaker 2: of how black bodies are disregarded in medicine, and it 292 00:14:30,676 --> 00:14:34,076 Speaker 2: was just very very mind blowing and very impactful. 293 00:14:35,116 --> 00:14:36,796 Speaker 1: I want to talk about this moment I read about 294 00:14:36,836 --> 00:14:40,796 Speaker 1: where you're taking this class it's giving you all sorts 295 00:14:40,796 --> 00:14:43,516 Speaker 1: of new insights about the depths of medical racism that 296 00:14:43,556 --> 00:14:47,396 Speaker 1: plague our country's history and also our country's present. And 297 00:14:47,636 --> 00:14:48,996 Speaker 1: then you speak to your mom about it. 298 00:14:49,276 --> 00:14:49,516 Speaker 3: Yeah. 299 00:14:49,516 --> 00:14:52,716 Speaker 2: So my mom is actually a rockster in her own right. 300 00:14:52,796 --> 00:14:56,476 Speaker 2: So she is an education and her whole objective in 301 00:14:56,516 --> 00:14:58,996 Speaker 2: life is to fight racism and education, right, and so 302 00:14:59,076 --> 00:15:02,276 Speaker 2: she's always been one to just fight racial injustice. But 303 00:15:02,356 --> 00:15:05,956 Speaker 2: she's never kind of we never had that conversation right 304 00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:08,596 Speaker 2: about my career, and she's never forced any type of 305 00:15:08,596 --> 00:15:10,596 Speaker 2: career on me. So I think when I called her 306 00:15:10,636 --> 00:15:13,356 Speaker 2: and told her about what I was studying and I 307 00:15:13,396 --> 00:15:16,756 Speaker 2: felt like this fiery passion about it, she was like, yes, 308 00:15:16,876 --> 00:15:18,836 Speaker 2: like this is what you know. We owe it to 309 00:15:18,876 --> 00:15:21,716 Speaker 2: the world to fight these injustices. And she told me, 310 00:15:21,796 --> 00:15:25,276 Speaker 2: you know that I'm put in this position and it's 311 00:15:25,316 --> 00:15:27,996 Speaker 2: not a coincidence, and that this is what I was 312 00:15:27,996 --> 00:15:30,876 Speaker 2: meant to do, and that it's my responsibility, just as 313 00:15:30,916 --> 00:15:34,196 Speaker 2: a black woman, with this opportunity and with this platform, 314 00:15:34,276 --> 00:15:36,916 Speaker 2: to go into it and fight injustice. And so that 315 00:15:36,916 --> 00:15:40,436 Speaker 2: that's something that really stuck with me and inspired me because. 316 00:15:40,196 --> 00:15:41,756 Speaker 3: She she did the same thing. 317 00:15:41,876 --> 00:15:43,476 Speaker 2: And you know, when I look back and I think 318 00:15:43,716 --> 00:15:47,676 Speaker 2: where my mother came from. She came from just complete 319 00:15:47,676 --> 00:15:53,356 Speaker 2: poverty in Mobile, Alabama and worked her way through school 320 00:15:53,836 --> 00:15:57,556 Speaker 2: being you know, just finishing and going through undergrad to 321 00:15:57,596 --> 00:16:00,516 Speaker 2: grad school to PhD and using her experience and her 322 00:16:00,556 --> 00:16:04,116 Speaker 2: mastery and her opportunity to pay it forward and to 323 00:16:04,236 --> 00:16:08,276 Speaker 2: fight for people who are underserved in the world. So yeah, absolutely, 324 00:16:08,396 --> 00:16:10,116 Speaker 2: my mom inspired me so much to just pay it 325 00:16:10,156 --> 00:16:12,636 Speaker 2: forward and fight the injustices that I'm that I witness. 326 00:16:13,636 --> 00:16:17,156 Speaker 1: So Harvard Gaddy is falling in love with public health 327 00:16:17,316 --> 00:16:20,276 Speaker 1: and you know, aspiring public health official who's helping to 328 00:16:20,316 --> 00:16:24,996 Speaker 1: bridge racial gaps in the system, racial inequity, and yet 329 00:16:25,036 --> 00:16:28,916 Speaker 1: this track thing keeps happening to you. It sounds like, right, 330 00:16:28,956 --> 00:16:32,036 Speaker 1: and it's it's just so fascinating for you to have 331 00:16:32,076 --> 00:16:34,036 Speaker 1: learn more about you because it just it feels like 332 00:16:34,716 --> 00:16:37,236 Speaker 1: running was this continual thing. 333 00:16:37,076 --> 00:16:38,956 Speaker 4: That you just kept falling into. 334 00:16:39,156 --> 00:16:43,396 Speaker 1: Right, It's like this afterthought, but eventually it's just hard 335 00:16:43,476 --> 00:16:48,156 Speaker 1: for you to deny just how remarkable your potential is. 336 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:49,236 Speaker 4: Right is that? 337 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:49,556 Speaker 5: Is that? 338 00:16:49,596 --> 00:16:51,836 Speaker 4: Am I accurate in capturing it in that way? 339 00:16:53,396 --> 00:16:53,956 Speaker 3: What it was? 340 00:16:54,436 --> 00:16:58,436 Speaker 2: So yeah, my freshman year track was an afterthought and 341 00:16:58,476 --> 00:17:01,436 Speaker 2: I hated that, and it was something that I was 342 00:17:01,516 --> 00:17:04,956 Speaker 2: incredibly insecure about just being on the team. And you know, 343 00:17:05,116 --> 00:17:09,396 Speaker 2: there's this culture of just being very intense and being 344 00:17:09,476 --> 00:17:12,516 Speaker 2: all in and very committed, and I was going through 345 00:17:12,516 --> 00:17:14,956 Speaker 2: the motions of that because you know, I was doing that. 346 00:17:14,996 --> 00:17:17,316 Speaker 2: I was showing up every day on time when I 347 00:17:17,356 --> 00:17:19,196 Speaker 2: went to the track. I put my one hundred percent 348 00:17:19,676 --> 00:17:22,676 Speaker 2: all into it. But it was so hard for me 349 00:17:22,796 --> 00:17:26,876 Speaker 2: right to actually make that a mental priority the way 350 00:17:26,876 --> 00:17:29,556 Speaker 2: that other things were for me, especially just growing up 351 00:17:29,556 --> 00:17:32,796 Speaker 2: with education being the number one priority and that always 352 00:17:32,956 --> 00:17:36,276 Speaker 2: was and sports were always just something that you did 353 00:17:36,316 --> 00:17:36,916 Speaker 2: after school. 354 00:17:37,356 --> 00:17:37,876 Speaker 3: And so. 355 00:17:39,716 --> 00:17:44,716 Speaker 2: My freshman year, after I finished it, it became even 356 00:17:44,756 --> 00:17:48,596 Speaker 2: harder because I was doing research at Boston Children's Hospital 357 00:17:49,596 --> 00:17:52,116 Speaker 2: on rut syndrome, which is a form of autism. And 358 00:17:52,196 --> 00:17:53,956 Speaker 2: I wanted to get my foot in the door right 359 00:17:54,276 --> 00:17:56,796 Speaker 2: in research and the neurobiology, and I wanted to have 360 00:17:56,796 --> 00:17:59,076 Speaker 2: that experience because I was afraid that if I didn't, 361 00:17:59,076 --> 00:18:01,316 Speaker 2: then I might fall behind, I might fall behind all 362 00:18:01,316 --> 00:18:04,196 Speaker 2: of my peers who were doing and pursuing their passions. 363 00:18:04,756 --> 00:18:06,796 Speaker 2: But at the same time, that was an Olympic Trials 364 00:18:06,876 --> 00:18:11,276 Speaker 2: year and I was running so fast season, and the 365 00:18:11,316 --> 00:18:13,996 Speaker 2: season just kept going. I had to go to regionals, 366 00:18:13,996 --> 00:18:15,556 Speaker 2: and then I had to go to Nationals, and then 367 00:18:15,636 --> 00:18:19,436 Speaker 2: next with Olympic trials, and so that summer I was 368 00:18:19,476 --> 00:18:24,596 Speaker 2: balancing working my research job and then also doing track 369 00:18:24,636 --> 00:18:27,916 Speaker 2: and field at the end, and also working at the 370 00:18:27,956 --> 00:18:30,556 Speaker 2: dry cleaners because I had to make money, and so 371 00:18:30,716 --> 00:18:33,636 Speaker 2: it was very stressful summer for me, and I felt 372 00:18:33,676 --> 00:18:36,036 Speaker 2: like I was being pulled in every direction and also 373 00:18:36,156 --> 00:18:37,956 Speaker 2: just trying to be a human and live my life 374 00:18:37,956 --> 00:18:40,916 Speaker 2: and have that balance. And so I think what ended 375 00:18:40,996 --> 00:18:42,916 Speaker 2: up making me a little bit resentful of track and 376 00:18:42,956 --> 00:18:47,356 Speaker 2: field during that freshman summer was that I was not 377 00:18:47,476 --> 00:18:49,516 Speaker 2: able to put in the hours that I wanted to 378 00:18:49,596 --> 00:18:52,276 Speaker 2: at my research opportunity, and I felt like I was 379 00:18:52,356 --> 00:18:55,036 Speaker 2: losing so much of that opportunity on this end of 380 00:18:55,076 --> 00:18:57,676 Speaker 2: my life because I had to be all in for 381 00:18:57,716 --> 00:19:00,396 Speaker 2: track and field. You know, once you travel to a meet, 382 00:19:00,796 --> 00:19:03,476 Speaker 2: you can't halfway travel. Your body is fully there and 383 00:19:03,516 --> 00:19:05,436 Speaker 2: you're present there and that's what you have to do. 384 00:19:05,476 --> 00:19:07,956 Speaker 2: And I couldn't be present at my lab and it 385 00:19:08,036 --> 00:19:10,996 Speaker 2: frustrated me, and it made me very very nervous and 386 00:19:11,036 --> 00:19:14,676 Speaker 2: insecure about just what I was going to do outside 387 00:19:14,716 --> 00:19:17,796 Speaker 2: of the track world, and that definitely carried into my 388 00:19:17,836 --> 00:19:21,196 Speaker 2: sophomore year. It was an Olympic year. That was YO 389 00:19:21,316 --> 00:19:24,836 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. And the thing about the trials in twenty 390 00:19:24,876 --> 00:19:27,076 Speaker 2: sixteen is that they actually went really well from me. 391 00:19:27,156 --> 00:19:28,836 Speaker 2: I got sixth place in the final in the two 392 00:19:28,916 --> 00:19:32,756 Speaker 2: hundred and had ran alongside Alison Felix, right, which is 393 00:19:33,516 --> 00:19:37,676 Speaker 2: this amazing and wild dream that I couldn't believe was happening. 394 00:19:38,036 --> 00:19:40,916 Speaker 2: But somehow I was still resentful about it, you know, 395 00:19:41,276 --> 00:19:45,236 Speaker 2: And I've never actually admitted that out loud anywhere to 396 00:19:45,276 --> 00:19:47,876 Speaker 2: anyone except for right now, but that's how I felt. 397 00:19:49,036 --> 00:19:53,116 Speaker 1: Look, Gadby, I love your candor, and I totally understand 398 00:19:53,156 --> 00:19:55,316 Speaker 1: why it's been so hard to admit that, because when 399 00:19:55,316 --> 00:19:59,476 Speaker 1: we admit that we feel resentful about something, we worry 400 00:19:59,476 --> 00:20:02,516 Speaker 1: that in turn we'll face the critique. Shouldn't she just 401 00:20:02,556 --> 00:20:05,356 Speaker 1: be grateful that she's been given all these gifts, as 402 00:20:05,356 --> 00:20:08,516 Speaker 1: though we're not entitled to feel the things that we 403 00:20:08,556 --> 00:20:10,956 Speaker 1: feel as move about in this world, which you absolutely 404 00:20:10,956 --> 00:20:13,596 Speaker 1: are allowed to do. And so I think sharing that 405 00:20:13,636 --> 00:20:15,596 Speaker 1: actually is going to make a lot of people feel 406 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:19,196 Speaker 1: more comfortable admitting that to themselves because a lot of 407 00:20:19,276 --> 00:20:21,396 Speaker 1: us are out in the world trying to meet other 408 00:20:21,436 --> 00:20:25,276 Speaker 1: people's expectations, feeling like we owe the world something, but 409 00:20:25,596 --> 00:20:27,756 Speaker 1: maybe it's not the right choice for us. And sometimes 410 00:20:27,836 --> 00:20:31,476 Speaker 1: the first step is just saying this mental calculation just 411 00:20:31,556 --> 00:20:32,916 Speaker 1: isn't working for me, you know. 412 00:20:33,516 --> 00:20:34,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't. 413 00:20:35,036 --> 00:20:37,156 Speaker 2: I was at a crossroads at this point where I 414 00:20:37,196 --> 00:20:40,236 Speaker 2: had to decide what mattered to me and what was 415 00:20:40,236 --> 00:20:43,756 Speaker 2: my priority, and oh man, so I decided to just 416 00:20:43,756 --> 00:20:48,876 Speaker 2: take a trip to Senegal for eight weeks and completely 417 00:20:48,916 --> 00:20:52,156 Speaker 2: reset and not worry about any of it. And in Senegal, 418 00:20:52,196 --> 00:20:54,236 Speaker 2: I studied the culture and the religion. Then I had 419 00:20:54,236 --> 00:20:57,076 Speaker 2: a fun cohort of people, and I didn't train on 420 00:20:57,116 --> 00:21:00,156 Speaker 2: a track for a single second. I didn't do any 421 00:21:00,196 --> 00:21:04,196 Speaker 2: neurobiology work for a single second. And I just did 422 00:21:04,236 --> 00:21:07,396 Speaker 2: what I wanted to do. And I came back and 423 00:21:07,596 --> 00:21:09,956 Speaker 2: was actually I had a very clear mind, and that 424 00:21:10,036 --> 00:21:11,916 Speaker 2: a very clear headspace of what I wanted to do. 425 00:21:12,156 --> 00:21:16,276 Speaker 1: Huh, say more about that, How did it bring you clarity, 426 00:21:16,436 --> 00:21:20,436 Speaker 1: having this reset moment or this brief respite from the 427 00:21:20,476 --> 00:21:21,876 Speaker 1: stresses of your daily life. 428 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:24,036 Speaker 2: I didn't expect it to be like that, so I 429 00:21:24,036 --> 00:21:26,196 Speaker 2: didn't take the trip thinking, oh, I'm just going to 430 00:21:26,276 --> 00:21:27,676 Speaker 2: reset and figure out what I want to do in 431 00:21:27,716 --> 00:21:30,196 Speaker 2: my life. I think just stepping away from that and 432 00:21:30,596 --> 00:21:33,836 Speaker 2: having the freedom and the liberation to just think for 433 00:21:33,916 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 2: myself and be myself and be it so far away 434 00:21:38,316 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 2: the thousands of thousands of miles from any of the 435 00:21:40,836 --> 00:21:45,116 Speaker 2: pressure that was being put on me back home. It 436 00:21:45,156 --> 00:21:49,236 Speaker 2: was not having access to social media for majority of 437 00:21:49,276 --> 00:21:51,916 Speaker 2: the time, so not even being able to contact people 438 00:21:52,036 --> 00:21:54,796 Speaker 2: who are asking me to do something or encouraging me 439 00:21:54,836 --> 00:21:57,596 Speaker 2: to do something one way or another. I was just 440 00:21:57,796 --> 00:22:03,276 Speaker 2: completely myself and everything was just completely simplified. So it 441 00:22:03,716 --> 00:22:07,996 Speaker 2: shifted my perspective. I came back and I thought, why 442 00:22:08,076 --> 00:22:10,876 Speaker 2: not just do exactly what I want to do? And 443 00:22:10,956 --> 00:22:12,876 Speaker 2: I knew what I wanted what I didn't want to 444 00:22:12,876 --> 00:22:14,516 Speaker 2: do when I got back there. I knew that I 445 00:22:14,556 --> 00:22:16,716 Speaker 2: didn't want to stress myself out trying to strike this 446 00:22:16,796 --> 00:22:20,716 Speaker 2: balance between between school and track. I just had kind 447 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:24,236 Speaker 2: of let all that anxiety go and all that pressure go, 448 00:22:24,916 --> 00:22:28,396 Speaker 2: at least for that time. And so my my junior year, 449 00:22:29,996 --> 00:22:32,756 Speaker 2: I somehow just it all just kind of fell together. 450 00:22:32,836 --> 00:22:37,636 Speaker 2: In the classroom. I started taking these fun sociology courses 451 00:22:37,676 --> 00:22:41,796 Speaker 2: that complimented by biology courses and track and field just 452 00:22:42,916 --> 00:22:44,756 Speaker 2: went very well for me that year, and that ended 453 00:22:44,836 --> 00:22:48,076 Speaker 2: up being my breakout year where I broke the collegiate 454 00:22:48,116 --> 00:22:51,756 Speaker 2: record and won the NCAA Championship, which was just ironic 455 00:22:51,796 --> 00:22:55,516 Speaker 2: because I had not even finished my sophomore season. So 456 00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:57,956 Speaker 2: I think a lot of people were just incredibly shocked 457 00:22:57,956 --> 00:22:59,556 Speaker 2: that I would I would come back after that and 458 00:22:59,756 --> 00:23:01,196 Speaker 2: not having trained all summer just to. 459 00:23:01,156 --> 00:23:03,196 Speaker 3: Go do that. But it was just it was a 460 00:23:03,236 --> 00:23:07,476 Speaker 3: mindset shift. It just clicked. Everything came together my junior 461 00:23:07,556 --> 00:23:10,156 Speaker 3: year and I was just how much happier. 462 00:23:09,836 --> 00:23:12,236 Speaker 4: And you enjoyed running your junior year? Is that right 463 00:23:12,276 --> 00:23:12,876 Speaker 4: to say. 464 00:23:13,196 --> 00:23:15,676 Speaker 3: I enjoyed it? Yes? And I enjoyed running. 465 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:18,036 Speaker 2: I enjoy like I enjoyed being on the track, and 466 00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:22,396 Speaker 2: I enjoyed racing, And that is genuinely when I actually 467 00:23:22,396 --> 00:23:22,756 Speaker 2: loved it. 468 00:23:23,236 --> 00:23:26,476 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, Gabby, tell me if you think this hypothesis 469 00:23:26,556 --> 00:23:29,196 Speaker 1: is right. But it does feel like, I mean, nothing 470 00:23:29,276 --> 00:23:32,156 Speaker 1: changed about the workouts, nothing changed about how grueling it 471 00:23:32,196 --> 00:23:34,516 Speaker 1: is to be an athlete, But it does seem like 472 00:23:34,596 --> 00:23:37,836 Speaker 1: what changed coming out back from Senegal is that you 473 00:23:37,876 --> 00:23:41,116 Speaker 1: were finally running on your own terms. It was finally 474 00:23:41,116 --> 00:23:43,356 Speaker 1: a decision that you felt you were making that the 475 00:23:43,356 --> 00:23:45,756 Speaker 1: world wasn't making for you. And maybe that's where that 476 00:23:45,876 --> 00:23:46,756 Speaker 1: joy came from. 477 00:23:47,196 --> 00:23:49,876 Speaker 2: I think one hundred percent. I think I had taken 478 00:23:50,036 --> 00:23:53,036 Speaker 2: everything and just put it on my own terms, completely 479 00:23:53,076 --> 00:23:55,356 Speaker 2: running on my own terms, deciding not to be pigeonolled. 480 00:23:56,316 --> 00:23:58,836 Speaker 2: Nothing was made for me. I think that that made 481 00:23:58,836 --> 00:23:59,356 Speaker 2: the difference. 482 00:24:01,276 --> 00:24:04,076 Speaker 1: After the break, we'll hear all about Gabby's journey to 483 00:24:04,116 --> 00:24:07,156 Speaker 1: the Olympics. We'll be back in a moment with a 484 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:18,076 Speaker 1: slight change of plans. I've got to talk about the 485 00:24:18,076 --> 00:24:22,316 Speaker 1: Olympics and your journey to the Olympics. Oh my gosh, 486 00:24:22,356 --> 00:24:25,476 Speaker 1: tell me about the twenty twenty one US Olympic trials. 487 00:24:25,636 --> 00:24:28,396 Speaker 1: I have watched that video on loop. It is one 488 00:24:28,436 --> 00:24:30,596 Speaker 1: of the most joyful human moments that, oh my god, 489 00:24:30,676 --> 00:24:31,676 Speaker 1: this is your story to tell. 490 00:24:32,156 --> 00:24:35,476 Speaker 2: Yeah, that is definitely the most joyful moment of my life. 491 00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:38,916 Speaker 2: I think that realization that I was crossing the line, 492 00:24:38,996 --> 00:24:41,436 Speaker 2: in the realization that I was going to the Olympics 493 00:24:41,516 --> 00:24:46,316 Speaker 2: right was the first thing that I was very excited about. 494 00:24:46,476 --> 00:24:49,756 Speaker 2: And I realized that, you know, halfway down the street 495 00:24:49,876 --> 00:24:52,116 Speaker 2: at the end of my two hundred meters that I'm 496 00:24:52,116 --> 00:24:53,356 Speaker 2: going to make this Olympic team. 497 00:24:53,876 --> 00:24:58,756 Speaker 3: That's Thomas, Thomas is going to Dan Hello, timeline. 498 00:24:58,596 --> 00:25:01,116 Speaker 1: The line, don't win that moment two day, Thomas is 499 00:25:01,196 --> 00:25:03,516 Speaker 1: going to Tokyo twenty one six. 500 00:25:03,796 --> 00:25:06,396 Speaker 2: And then I realized that I was coming in first 501 00:25:06,516 --> 00:25:10,156 Speaker 2: and winning a national championship and that I was definitely 502 00:25:10,316 --> 00:25:11,316 Speaker 2: making this Olympic team. 503 00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:14,916 Speaker 3: And that was the most joyous moment of all. 504 00:25:15,356 --> 00:25:18,276 Speaker 2: But then there was a realization that my time was 505 00:25:18,396 --> 00:25:21,396 Speaker 2: the second fastest time ever ran behind flow Jo and 506 00:25:21,516 --> 00:25:26,236 Speaker 2: everyone knows flo Jo, And then it was just unbelievable 507 00:25:26,276 --> 00:25:29,236 Speaker 2: for me. I couldn't even hide how excited I was. 508 00:25:29,396 --> 00:25:31,076 Speaker 2: You were not advised to throw your hands in the 509 00:25:31,116 --> 00:25:33,756 Speaker 2: air before you finish the sprint race, but I couldn't 510 00:25:33,796 --> 00:25:34,076 Speaker 2: help it. 511 00:25:34,516 --> 00:25:38,156 Speaker 3: I pictured that. You have no idea how many people 512 00:25:38,276 --> 00:25:38,716 Speaker 3: yelled at me. 513 00:25:39,116 --> 00:25:41,316 Speaker 4: We were all throwing our hands in the air for you. 514 00:25:41,476 --> 00:25:44,156 Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, Everyone's like, oh, you know, you shouldn't have 515 00:25:44,156 --> 00:25:45,636 Speaker 3: done that. I'm like, I don't care. 516 00:25:48,356 --> 00:25:53,036 Speaker 2: And just the excitement was I can't even explain it. 517 00:25:53,116 --> 00:25:55,676 Speaker 2: It was such an amazing feeling. I pictured the moment 518 00:25:55,756 --> 00:25:58,156 Speaker 2: so many times in my head before actually running the race. 519 00:25:58,556 --> 00:26:01,076 Speaker 2: And then to have that visualization come to life was 520 00:26:03,316 --> 00:26:07,516 Speaker 2: an amazing experience, and especially because leading up to that 521 00:26:07,636 --> 00:26:10,956 Speaker 2: moment just I don't know if people realize, but trials 522 00:26:11,116 --> 00:26:15,636 Speaker 2: is the most stressful thing that I think any any. 523 00:26:15,516 --> 00:26:17,676 Speaker 3: Athlete has will ever do. 524 00:26:18,516 --> 00:26:20,996 Speaker 2: The entire two weeks that I was there, I did 525 00:26:21,076 --> 00:26:25,996 Speaker 2: not eat or sleep because it was just so anxiety inducing. 526 00:26:26,116 --> 00:26:28,476 Speaker 2: And it's just pretty much, you know, for a track athlete, 527 00:26:28,516 --> 00:26:31,356 Speaker 2: it's just you versus the track, so there is there 528 00:26:31,396 --> 00:26:34,516 Speaker 2: are no other factors that go into it. 529 00:26:34,596 --> 00:26:36,716 Speaker 3: There's nobody else you can blame. It's really just you 530 00:26:36,956 --> 00:26:37,756 Speaker 3: and what you've put in. 531 00:26:38,196 --> 00:26:39,836 Speaker 2: So it just made it that much better when I 532 00:26:39,916 --> 00:26:43,796 Speaker 2: actually did make the team, because we all know that 533 00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:48,036 Speaker 2: the Olympic being postponed due to COVID was a whole craziness. 534 00:26:49,036 --> 00:26:51,156 Speaker 2: I you know, I picked up my entire life and 535 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:53,716 Speaker 2: moved to Austin, Texas to make this Olympic team. So 536 00:26:54,636 --> 00:26:57,516 Speaker 2: everything needed to work out, and so I'm very very 537 00:26:57,556 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 2: grateful that it did. 538 00:26:58,876 --> 00:27:02,436 Speaker 1: Yeah, and You've said that when you had this magnificent 539 00:27:02,516 --> 00:27:05,836 Speaker 1: performance at trials, all of a sudden there was a 540 00:27:05,916 --> 00:27:09,516 Speaker 1: mindset shift again right where you're going from running track 541 00:27:10,036 --> 00:27:13,396 Speaker 1: to now competing for gold at the Olympics, which is 542 00:27:13,396 --> 00:27:15,316 Speaker 1: obviously an exceptional version of a shift, but I do 543 00:27:15,436 --> 00:27:17,436 Speaker 1: think it's very relatable for so many of us that 544 00:27:17,956 --> 00:27:21,596 Speaker 1: there are these key moments in life where suddenly our 545 00:27:21,676 --> 00:27:24,516 Speaker 1: goals come into sharp focus and it just really changes 546 00:27:24,556 --> 00:27:24,876 Speaker 1: the game. 547 00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:27,516 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is actually very true. 548 00:27:27,556 --> 00:27:30,636 Speaker 2: It's funny because I had moved to Austin, Texas at 549 00:27:30,636 --> 00:27:33,636 Speaker 2: the end of twenty nineteen with the intentions of making 550 00:27:33,676 --> 00:27:37,476 Speaker 2: the Olympic team and then very possibly just moving on 551 00:27:37,716 --> 00:27:41,676 Speaker 2: from track and field after accomplishing that and pursuing public 552 00:27:41,716 --> 00:27:43,916 Speaker 2: health or pursuing a career that I wanted, you know, 553 00:27:44,036 --> 00:27:45,556 Speaker 2: something else that I wanted to do with, you know, 554 00:27:45,676 --> 00:27:47,636 Speaker 2: going to school and getting a master's in public health 555 00:27:47,996 --> 00:27:50,956 Speaker 2: and then working after that. But after I made the 556 00:27:51,036 --> 00:27:54,796 Speaker 2: team with a time like that, yeah, suddenly I decided, Okay, 557 00:27:54,836 --> 00:27:56,836 Speaker 2: well now I can actually go for a gold medal. 558 00:27:57,796 --> 00:28:00,116 Speaker 2: And so that was it was such a rapid shift 559 00:28:00,836 --> 00:28:04,076 Speaker 2: and so rapid and huge, and I just felt it 560 00:28:04,676 --> 00:28:05,236 Speaker 2: so holy. 561 00:28:05,756 --> 00:28:08,196 Speaker 3: And then, you know, when I was at the Olympics. 562 00:28:07,876 --> 00:28:10,196 Speaker 2: It was a shift because now decided that I'm probably 563 00:28:10,276 --> 00:28:13,716 Speaker 2: going to continue running for through the next Olympics, and 564 00:28:13,836 --> 00:28:16,356 Speaker 2: that just wasn't what I had in mind before. It 565 00:28:16,556 --> 00:28:20,756 Speaker 2: was definitely a change in plans, and so now I'm 566 00:28:20,956 --> 00:28:23,396 Speaker 2: just I'm focused on that, right And now I'm focusing 567 00:28:23,396 --> 00:28:26,116 Speaker 2: on World Championships this next year, and then World Championships 568 00:28:26,156 --> 00:28:27,196 Speaker 2: again and then the Olympics. 569 00:28:27,236 --> 00:28:29,436 Speaker 1: By the way, I'm glad you omitted the slight part 570 00:28:29,476 --> 00:28:30,756 Speaker 1: of the change in plants. I think this is a 571 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:36,116 Speaker 1: sizeable change in plans. I've got rid of the cheeky slight. Yeah, 572 00:28:36,116 --> 00:28:36,836 Speaker 1: I was sizable. 573 00:28:37,356 --> 00:28:41,076 Speaker 4: So how has this influenced how you see the coming years? 574 00:28:41,196 --> 00:28:41,316 Speaker 3: Right? 575 00:28:41,396 --> 00:28:44,956 Speaker 1: So, you you're, from what I understand, currently pursuing your 576 00:28:45,036 --> 00:28:48,756 Speaker 1: masters in epidemiology in Texas. You said you are competing 577 00:28:48,876 --> 00:28:53,076 Speaker 1: or you plan to compete in the World Championships. Is 578 00:28:53,156 --> 00:28:56,076 Speaker 1: this now the new balancing act for Gabby Thomas? 579 00:28:56,356 --> 00:28:58,796 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I do what I can, and so yeah, 580 00:28:58,876 --> 00:29:03,036 Speaker 2: right now, I'm currently getting my masters in public health, 581 00:29:03,556 --> 00:29:08,716 Speaker 2: specifically epidemiology and healthcare administration, and I am still competing 582 00:29:08,796 --> 00:29:11,036 Speaker 2: and I plan to be competing in track and field 583 00:29:11,076 --> 00:29:12,116 Speaker 2: for the foreseeable future. 584 00:29:12,316 --> 00:29:14,236 Speaker 1: Oh sorry, I was gonna say, you know less. Listeners 585 00:29:14,276 --> 00:29:18,076 Speaker 1: think it was like a super clear cut decision. Again, 586 00:29:18,116 --> 00:29:21,116 Speaker 1: from what I understand, you did think you might quit 587 00:29:21,236 --> 00:29:23,356 Speaker 1: track again even after the Olympics. 588 00:29:23,516 --> 00:29:26,036 Speaker 3: Is that right? Yeah, I did think. I did think 589 00:29:26,076 --> 00:29:30,036 Speaker 3: I might quit, or i'll call it retire, retire. I 590 00:29:30,076 --> 00:29:31,516 Speaker 3: feels a little nicer than quitting. 591 00:29:31,676 --> 00:29:35,436 Speaker 1: Okay, Daddy was on record is potentially wanting to retire. 592 00:29:36,916 --> 00:29:39,996 Speaker 1: Can you can you tell me more about about that decision, 593 00:29:39,996 --> 00:29:42,116 Speaker 1: because like, again, look, I think it's very easy for 594 00:29:42,196 --> 00:29:43,596 Speaker 1: all of us to look at you and be like 595 00:29:44,036 --> 00:29:46,836 Speaker 1: Gabby Thomas, that girl's got it figured out, and and 596 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:49,316 Speaker 1: knowing that even in that moment after winning these two 597 00:29:49,356 --> 00:29:52,436 Speaker 1: medals at the Olympics, you're still like, eh, maybe maybe 598 00:29:52,476 --> 00:29:57,396 Speaker 1: I'm done. You know, in those moments, what's the calculation 599 00:29:57,516 --> 00:30:00,556 Speaker 1: you're doing in your head? Like what would need to 600 00:30:00,596 --> 00:30:02,196 Speaker 1: be in what needs to be in place for you 601 00:30:02,276 --> 00:30:04,396 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, yeah I'm continuing running. 602 00:30:04,916 --> 00:30:05,116 Speaker 3: Yeah. 603 00:30:05,436 --> 00:30:08,556 Speaker 2: It's actually really funny because I decided that the reason 604 00:30:08,636 --> 00:30:12,996 Speaker 2: why I want to retire or very possibly thought about retiring, 605 00:30:13,156 --> 00:30:16,196 Speaker 2: was because like, just like in college, I think it 606 00:30:16,276 --> 00:30:18,876 Speaker 2: was a similar thing where there were so many things 607 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:22,156 Speaker 2: that I wanted to pursue, and I was told that 608 00:30:22,196 --> 00:30:24,796 Speaker 2: as a pro athlete that you had to fully commit 609 00:30:24,836 --> 00:30:28,716 Speaker 2: to being a professional athlete, and what I learned in 610 00:30:28,796 --> 00:30:30,636 Speaker 2: the last year was that that was not the case, 611 00:30:31,156 --> 00:30:33,916 Speaker 2: and I had to take a risk, and I was 612 00:30:34,036 --> 00:30:36,596 Speaker 2: told that I may have been doing too much and 613 00:30:36,676 --> 00:30:40,356 Speaker 2: that I was very risky. Again, I was told not 614 00:30:40,516 --> 00:30:43,356 Speaker 2: to move to Austin, Texas during an Olympic year. I 615 00:30:43,556 --> 00:30:46,236 Speaker 2: was told that I should not be taking classes, I 616 00:30:46,276 --> 00:30:49,716 Speaker 2: should not be working while training. It was doing too much. 617 00:30:50,436 --> 00:30:53,436 Speaker 2: And I realized it wasn't. And the reason that is 618 00:30:53,556 --> 00:30:55,316 Speaker 2: is because I loved everything that I was doing, and 619 00:30:55,596 --> 00:30:58,436 Speaker 2: everything that I was doing was recharging and it was 620 00:30:58,516 --> 00:31:01,156 Speaker 2: fueling me. So when I was in school, I couldn't 621 00:31:01,196 --> 00:31:02,756 Speaker 2: wait to get to the track, and when I was, 622 00:31:02,876 --> 00:31:05,276 Speaker 2: you know, at the track, I couldn't wait to go 623 00:31:05,396 --> 00:31:07,756 Speaker 2: back and just hang out and be in my class 624 00:31:07,836 --> 00:31:09,636 Speaker 2: and not be dying by four hundreds. 625 00:31:09,996 --> 00:31:13,436 Speaker 3: So they both kind of like recharged each other. 626 00:31:13,636 --> 00:31:15,676 Speaker 2: And so when I realized that, I thought, Okay, well, 627 00:31:15,716 --> 00:31:18,756 Speaker 2: I can definitely do both at a great level, and 628 00:31:18,916 --> 00:31:21,116 Speaker 2: so why not do it? And if there ever comes 629 00:31:21,156 --> 00:31:22,756 Speaker 2: a time where I do feel like it's too much, 630 00:31:22,916 --> 00:31:25,596 Speaker 2: then I'll dial it back a little bit. Or if 631 00:31:25,596 --> 00:31:27,076 Speaker 2: there's ever a time where I feel like I need 632 00:31:27,156 --> 00:31:28,956 Speaker 2: to shift gears because I'm like, hey, I don't like 633 00:31:29,036 --> 00:31:29,876 Speaker 2: what I'm doing anymore. 634 00:31:30,316 --> 00:31:33,316 Speaker 3: I think that's okay too. The only real pressure I 635 00:31:33,436 --> 00:31:35,396 Speaker 3: feel is the external pressure. 636 00:31:35,556 --> 00:31:37,916 Speaker 2: Right. It's like this idea they nicknamed me wonder Woman, 637 00:31:37,996 --> 00:31:39,836 Speaker 2: that I'm doing all of these things and I'm doing. 638 00:31:39,716 --> 00:31:40,556 Speaker 3: Them all so well. 639 00:31:41,676 --> 00:31:43,916 Speaker 2: Well, I would hate to let anyone down. But you know, 640 00:31:43,996 --> 00:31:46,436 Speaker 2: at the same time, I am doing all of these 641 00:31:46,476 --> 00:31:49,076 Speaker 2: things well because I continue to choose me and to 642 00:31:49,196 --> 00:31:52,116 Speaker 2: choose what makes me happy. So if I want to 643 00:31:52,116 --> 00:31:54,676 Speaker 2: shift gears again one day after getting my master's in 644 00:31:54,716 --> 00:31:56,556 Speaker 2: public health, I am one hundred percent okay with that. 645 00:31:57,196 --> 00:31:58,716 Speaker 2: If one day I wake up and decide that track 646 00:31:58,836 --> 00:32:00,236 Speaker 2: is not for me, then I'm okay with that too. 647 00:32:00,716 --> 00:32:03,156 Speaker 2: But for now, they're both going well, and I'm having 648 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:05,036 Speaker 2: so much fun and I'm loving it. I'm loving my 649 00:32:05,076 --> 00:32:07,036 Speaker 2: life and I'm loving the decisions and choices that I've 650 00:32:07,076 --> 00:32:11,116 Speaker 2: made for myself. And I I'm deciding to continue to 651 00:32:11,236 --> 00:32:11,716 Speaker 2: choose both. 652 00:32:12,436 --> 00:32:12,836 Speaker 3: I love that. 653 00:32:14,236 --> 00:32:15,996 Speaker 4: Thank you, Gaby, thank you. 654 00:32:16,396 --> 00:32:17,396 Speaker 3: It's just so much fun. 655 00:32:38,236 --> 00:32:41,396 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for listening. Join me next week, and I 656 00:32:41,476 --> 00:32:44,556 Speaker 1: really mean next week when I talk with psychologist Angela 657 00:32:44,676 --> 00:32:47,876 Speaker 1: Duckworth about the science of grit and how natural talent 658 00:32:47,956 --> 00:32:49,956 Speaker 1: and ability will only get you so far. 659 00:32:50,916 --> 00:32:54,636 Speaker 5: I really don't know anybody who has become you know, 660 00:32:54,836 --> 00:32:57,516 Speaker 5: world class in economics or at you know, being a 661 00:32:57,596 --> 00:33:01,956 Speaker 5: political leader or anything else. You know, a classroom teacher, 662 00:33:02,076 --> 00:33:04,996 Speaker 5: a nurse like without you know, just years and years 663 00:33:05,036 --> 00:33:05,436 Speaker 5: of effort. 664 00:33:15,676 --> 00:33:18,476 Speaker 1: A Slight Change of Plans is created, written and executive 665 00:33:18,516 --> 00:33:21,716 Speaker 1: produced by me Maya Shunker. The best part of creating 666 00:33:21,756 --> 00:33:24,556 Speaker 1: this show is getting to collaborate with my formidable Slight 667 00:33:24,676 --> 00:33:29,436 Speaker 1: Change family. This includes Tyler Green, our senior producer, Jen Guera, 668 00:33:29,556 --> 00:33:33,756 Speaker 1: our senior editor, Ben Holliday, our sound engineer, Emily Rosstek 669 00:33:33,796 --> 00:33:38,276 Speaker 1: our associate producer, and Neil LaBelle our executive producer. Louis 670 00:33:38,316 --> 00:33:41,396 Speaker 1: Scara wrote our delightful theme song, and Ginger Smith helped 671 00:33:41,476 --> 00:33:45,396 Speaker 1: arrange the vocals. A Slight Change of Plans is a 672 00:33:45,436 --> 00:33:48,396 Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries, so big thanks to everyone there, 673 00:33:49,636 --> 00:33:52,236 Speaker 1: and of course a very special thanks to Jimmy Wae. 674 00:33:53,316 --> 00:33:55,636 Speaker 1: You can follow A Slight Change of Plans on Instagram 675 00:33:55,836 --> 00:33:59,556 Speaker 1: at doctor Maya Shunker, and please remember to subscribe, share 676 00:33:59,676 --> 00:34:01,436 Speaker 1: and rate the show to help get the word out. 677 00:34:01,916 --> 00:34:02,636 Speaker 4: See you next week. 678 00:34:12,596 --> 00:34:16,636 Speaker 3: I don't plan on retiring anytime soon. Maybe when I'm 679 00:34:16,676 --> 00:34:17,156 Speaker 3: thirty five. 680 00:34:17,916 --> 00:34:19,636 Speaker 1: You're telling me it's too late, Gabby, because I turned 681 00:34:19,676 --> 00:34:23,156 Speaker 1: thirty six in a few weeks. My dreams are Overdy's 682 00:34:23,156 --> 00:34:25,196 Speaker 1: going to require thirty five, folks, I'm over the hill. 683 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:28,756 Speaker 2: I know actually quite a few thirty five year olds 684 00:34:28,756 --> 00:34:29,756 Speaker 2: who actually competed for US. 685 00:34:29,796 --> 00:34:35,076 Speaker 3: I did very well. Chance, Yeah, it's still a fighting chance.