Speaker 1: I'm Keim Azzarelli and you're listening to Seneca's conversations on
Speaker 1: power and Purpose. I am so delighted to partner with
Speaker 1: Makers on the special six part series called Keep Going.
Speaker 1: In this series, we listen to incredible conversations from Makers
Speaker 1: Conferences with a special focus on d e I. The
Speaker 1: goal is to use these podcasts as a jumping off
Speaker 1: point for conversations about d e I in your own organization.
Speaker 1: I want to give a special thanks to the Maker's
Speaker 1: conference sponsors, PNG, Price Waterhouse Cooper's an official wellness sponsor
Speaker 1: Lulu Lemon. Now. We launched the Seneca Women podcast Network
Speaker 1: about a year ago with founding partner PNG and I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio with the goal of amplifying the voices of
Speaker 1: women around the world. You probably know that podcasting is
Speaker 1: a fast growing industry, with over fifty sent of podcast
Speaker 1: audience being women. But what you may not know is
Speaker 1: that only twenty of top podcasts are hosted by women.
Speaker 1: We want to change that, so we are launching dozens
Speaker 1: of women focused and women led podcasts. So if you
Speaker 1: have a show where you want to collaborate on a show,
Speaker 1: reach out to us at info at Seneca Women dot
Speaker 1: com Now. It gives me great pleasure to introduce our
Speaker 1: guest host for the Keep Going series, Amina Brown. Amina
Speaker 1: is a spoken word poet, author and host of the
Speaker 1: podcast Her with Amina Brown on the Seneca Women Podcast Network. Amina,
Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Thanks Kim, I'm so
Speaker 1: honored to be the guest host of this special series
Speaker 1: and collaboration with makers. So much brilliance, so much inspiration,
Speaker 1: and so many helpful ways we can all affect change.
Speaker 1: We have another great conversation today from the Maker's Conference.
Speaker 1: We'll be listening to Katie Kuric, journalist and founder of
Speaker 1: Katie Kurrik Media, talking with actress, director, and act of
Speaker 1: ist Olivia Wilde. They'll be discussing why it's so important
Speaker 1: that women get the opportunities that lead to a successful career.
Speaker 1: After that, I'll be joined by the incredible Tiffany R. Warren,
Speaker 1: Executive vice president, Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer Sony Music Group.
Speaker 1: Tiffany and I will talk about what we've heard and
Speaker 1: she's going to give us some fresh, creative suggestions we
Speaker 1: can bring back to the workplace. Okay, let's listen to
Speaker 1: Katie Kurik and Olivia Wilde and I'll be right back
Speaker 1: after with Tiffany our Warren. Well, you know, you talk
Speaker 1: about the industry sort of the opportunities for women, and
Speaker 1: according to the Center for the Study of Women in
Speaker 1: TV and Film, women comprised only of all the top
Speaker 1: roles including directors, writers, and producers who worked on the
Speaker 1: top one grossing films in two thousand nineteen. But what
Speaker 1: is taking so long, Olivia to get those numbers at
Speaker 1: a higher level. I think it in order to change
Speaker 1: those numbers, we have to change the way people are hired.
Speaker 1: I think when hiring, when anyone in a position of
Speaker 1: power is basing their decisions on resume, what they will,
Speaker 1: of course end up doing is perpetuating the system, because
Speaker 1: when women haven't been given as many opportunities to take
Speaker 1: on those leadership roles, their resumes are not as long.
Speaker 1: Even I now in the position of hiring let's say
Speaker 1: production designers, I can look at the resume of a
Speaker 1: man who has done fifty movies, won tons of awards,
Speaker 1: and he seems like the more valuable option than the
Speaker 1: woman who might be brilliant to have a great take
Speaker 1: on the on the on the concept, but her resume
Speaker 1: looks so thin next to this guy, So I guess
Speaker 1: I'll just go with this guy. And if we continue
Speaker 1: to do that, then we will perpetuate the system. So
Speaker 1: I think it's embracing a meritocrats. I I did an
Speaker 1: hour for National Geographic as part of this series called
Speaker 1: American Side Out on gender inequality in Hollywood and Silicon
Speaker 1: Vale only, and I went to the set of The
Speaker 1: Handmaid's Tale and the director said, you know, she said,
Speaker 1: it's so hard to get your first your first break,
Speaker 1: and men just hire these guys because they have more
Speaker 1: faith and trust or confidence in them. And as you said,
Speaker 1: they can build up this list of credits which helps
Speaker 1: them achieve more and more and more. But if you
Speaker 1: don't get those first few things under your belt, you're
Speaker 1: kind of host. That's why I think it's about empowering
Speaker 1: women to make their first films by having more grant programs.
Speaker 1: I really benefited from a short film grant program that
Speaker 1: Glamour magazine used to do they should keep they should
Speaker 1: do it again. It was called Glamour Real Moments, and
Speaker 1: they gave a pretty great budget for a short film
Speaker 1: to a bunch of women every year. And it was
Speaker 1: the first time I had been kind of given the
Speaker 1: steering wheel, and I so enjoyed the process that I thought,
Speaker 1: that's it, this is all I want to do. And
Speaker 1: then I started directing music video so that my real
Speaker 1: continued to grow and I learned until I earned the
Speaker 1: the opportunity to directive feature. But even at that point,
Speaker 1: it was a female studio executive, Megan Ellison at Annapurna,
Speaker 1: who recognized that I was ready and she took a
Speaker 1: huge risk in hiring me. And to this day, it
Speaker 1: feels that the riskier choice is the unproven woman, because
Speaker 1: we are used to this narrative of the scrappy young
Speaker 1: film school guy who's who knows it could be the
Speaker 1: next Steven Spielberg. So given this chance, there aren't as
Speaker 1: many examples for those people in positions of power to
Speaker 1: draw from of women who out of the gate had
Speaker 1: something that worked, and therefore it's harder to take a
Speaker 1: risk on them. So we need to empower more women
Speaker 1: to have their first film made right, And I know
Speaker 1: you believe deeply in sort of this idea of once
Speaker 1: you are in that spot, you have to start mentoring
Speaker 1: other women and do what the men have done for years,
Speaker 1: which is give the job to their buddies or someone
Speaker 1: who looks just like them. That's right exactly. Caitlin Deaver,
Speaker 1: who stars in our movie, just directed her first music
Speaker 1: video and I am very proud of her because she
Speaker 1: has wanted to direct for a long time. And she said, live,
Speaker 1: I don't know how to get going, I don't know
Speaker 1: how to start this. And she has a band, and
Speaker 1: I said, you have an easy way to start this.
Speaker 1: Direct your video, start building your reel. I think it's
Speaker 1: about mentoring and encouraging, and it's also about helping them
Speaker 1: get the job, making the calls, helping people get in
Speaker 1: the room. For a long time, I feel like for
Speaker 1: one woman to feel she was succeeding in breaking through
Speaker 1: all the barriers and the class ceiling, there was a
Speaker 1: sense of I must go out it alone because if
Speaker 1: I bring others with me, it'll be harder to get
Speaker 1: through this small crack in the ceiling. Lots to discuss
Speaker 1: from this conversation. I am delighted to welcome Tiffany our Warren,
Speaker 1: Executive vice president, Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer, Sony Music Group. Tiffany,
Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Thank you so so much.
Speaker 1: I'm honored to be here. Okay, Tiffany, I want to
Speaker 1: I want to jump right in here because Katie brought
Speaker 1: up in this conversation between Katie and Olivia, they brought
Speaker 1: up an interesting phrase, which is a first break. And
Speaker 1: in your experience in the entertainment industry, you have experienced
Speaker 1: both being the one in need of that first break
Speaker 1: and being the one to provide others with their first
Speaker 1: break into the industry, their first entrance into the room,
Speaker 1: so to speak. What are your thoughts about how we
Speaker 1: can improve that hiring process so that women aren't excluded
Speaker 1: and even more so for women of color. It's such
Speaker 1: a great point. Um. And you know this idea of
Speaker 1: first break, and I often say I've built a career
Speaker 1: doing things first. It's not that I wanted to, it's
Speaker 1: just the path that I chose. Um. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: in my third first job or my third first break,
Speaker 1: meaning I'm the first to do this particular job, and
Speaker 1: then I feel like I'm the director of first breaks.
Speaker 1: Because that's kind of a little unknown secret. You know.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's secretive, but that when you're chief
Speaker 1: diversity officer, you have a responsibility, whether it's in your
Speaker 1: job description or not um to clear the pathway for
Speaker 1: people to have first breaks, to clear the barriers, to
Speaker 1: take down the wall so that people can walk into
Speaker 1: rooms and sit at tables without any impediments. Um. I
Speaker 1: saw recently that privilege is not privilege is not having
Speaker 1: an advantage, it's actually having a lack of impediments. And
Speaker 1: so how do I understand and create an environment where
Speaker 1: privilege is not something that becomes an impediment for those
Speaker 1: that have the talent um? You know, I think about
Speaker 1: why often and she said this phrase of it's still
Speaker 1: a risk to give an opportunity to an unproven woman.
Speaker 1: We'll take that even deeper. What does that mean for
Speaker 1: women of color? What does that mean for someone of color,
Speaker 1: someone of difference If it's a risk to give a
Speaker 1: first break to a woman, and you think about the
Speaker 1: other underrepresented groups, and so when you think about the
Speaker 1: hiring process, I feel like one of my my main jobs,
Speaker 1: and the jobs of those that are involved in the
Speaker 1: hiring process is to really look very specifically at the
Speaker 1: impediments and the barriers and the walls first and foremost
Speaker 1: that that people of difference had to break through to
Speaker 1: get in front of you for that position. And so
Speaker 1: it may not be on their resume, but what's what
Speaker 1: should be on there is perseverance, overcoming adversity, um, almost
Speaker 1: having a mcdiver like you know, personality, figuring things out,
Speaker 1: doing less with more, as Arlen Hamilton, who's a maker,
Speaker 1: famously said, And so that presents an opportunity to say,
Speaker 1: if they possess all of that, a first break is
Speaker 1: table sticks. I will give them that first break because
Speaker 1: they've already proven that they've broken through things already first um.
Speaker 1: And so that the hiring process and paying attention to it,
Speaker 1: and she had so many jewels in terms of Olivia said.
Speaker 1: One of those responsibilities too is she said about mentoring,
Speaker 1: which I've heard put this way before, but for some reason,
Speaker 1: when she said it, it was like, okay, the bells ring.
Speaker 1: It's not just having you know, because I think people
Speaker 1: have Instagram moments with mentoring. This is my mentor, check
Speaker 1: out my mentor mentor a proud mentee moment, right you know. Um,
Speaker 1: I have a mentor who's just menty, who's just recently
Speaker 1: been installed as a president of an advertising agency. And
Speaker 1: I met her as an intern, and I think about,
Speaker 1: you know, a quote that I said at her that
Speaker 1: the dinner celebrating her, and I looked around the room
Speaker 1: and I said, your success has made us a family.
Speaker 1: And I think about the village it takes to raise
Speaker 1: an executive, the village it takes to raise an award
Speaker 1: winning Oscar winning director. You know, when you look at
Speaker 1: that woman, if you just look a little bit slight
Speaker 1: to the left, it's a long line of people that
Speaker 1: to help break down those impediments, in those barriers so
Speaker 1: they could stand there and shine. And you know, the
Speaker 1: line may be shorter or it doesn't. You know, that's
Speaker 1: not really what the question is. But I just like
Speaker 1: this idea of you know, really understanding what they already
Speaker 1: had to break to get in front of you for
Speaker 1: their first break. Yeah, and even when you were talking
Speaker 1: just now about the impediments, right, And I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think about people who may be listening, Tiffany, that are
Speaker 1: in their own respective workplaces, maybe in the entertain entertainment industry,
Speaker 1: arts media, but also business that may not even be
Speaker 1: connected to entertainment. Right. We're talking about people who have
Speaker 1: the talent, who have the skills, who need to gain
Speaker 1: experience and access. What would you say as advice to
Speaker 1: folks who are in similar positions to be able to hire,
Speaker 1: to be able to revise some of these first breaks.
Speaker 1: How can we make sure that women and in particular,
Speaker 1: in particular ways women of color are able to gain
Speaker 1: this experience, are able to get this access so that
Speaker 1: their careers can progress to the place that they wanted
Speaker 1: to go. How can we be the village? Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I I myself created a village in two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: you know, called ad Color UM. I didn't know that
Speaker 1: it was going to be a village that was uh,
Speaker 1: you know, an informal leadership development training program, but that's
Speaker 1: what it's become. And what I love seeing is that
Speaker 1: the leadership alumni, so those are young professionals who have
Speaker 1: served on our advisory board, or who were named one
Speaker 1: of our futures, or simply were volunteers. The way that
Speaker 1: they use their experience at ad Color to jump start
Speaker 1: and go to their next opportunity because unfortunately they're not
Speaker 1: getting those leadership opportunities at work. Those opportunities have been cut,
Speaker 1: the training programs have been uh put to the wayside
Speaker 1: um leadership and development seems to be held for the
Speaker 1: top of the um of the company, UH for executives.
Speaker 1: That's why you know, when I would attend makers, I
Speaker 1: would always think about, like, I have five or six tickets.
Speaker 1: I'm a proud board member, and I would make sure
Speaker 1: that it would be distributed amongst junior and senior um
Speaker 1: and the senior were far through thin the junior because
Speaker 1: I knew the importance of what it meant for me
Speaker 1: when I was taken into certain rooms or galas or
Speaker 1: award shows. And it seems kind of superficial, but there's
Speaker 1: a really good study of power when you go to
Speaker 1: those events. And so you know, I'd be at these
Speaker 1: events and get to meet people in an environment that
Speaker 1: was not about title. Maybe it was about which table
Speaker 1: you were sitting at, but it wasn't about a title,
Speaker 1: and having them embraced me and and asked me questions
Speaker 1: about what do you want to do and where do
Speaker 1: you want to be, and then seeing them outside of
Speaker 1: that gala, in a meeting or at another event, them
Speaker 1: remembering me and saying, hey, why don't you join me
Speaker 1: at this. There's all these different ways that you can
Speaker 1: support the leadership of people who may or may not
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to be in rooms where you're at.
Speaker 1: And so I learned that lesson pretty early in my
Speaker 1: career and was giving the opportunity to be in those rooms.
Speaker 1: And immediately when I got in those rooms, I turned
Speaker 1: around and brought other people in and sometimes too the
Speaker 1: consternation of like the people who gave me the invite.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd be like, can I just get extra
Speaker 1: two tickets? Or can I just you know, get an
Speaker 1: extra um registration? Because I knew the power of those
Speaker 1: corridors of power, particularly in a creative industry. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's about taking a step back,
Speaker 1: you know, And it's something as simple as if you
Speaker 1: receive that that that important invite, can you make space,
Speaker 1: can you make room for someone else? Or if you
Speaker 1: are someone who's in a position to underwrite an additional
Speaker 1: registration to an industry conference and then be that per
Speaker 1: since sharp or mentor while you're there. Um, these are
Speaker 1: things that I promise you accelerate the success of an
Speaker 1: up and coming person. I've seen it. I've seen the
Speaker 1: power of it. It's a beautiful thing and it's super
Speaker 1: simple that anyone who has privilege or power or position
Speaker 1: can do because what people that go to is you know,
Speaker 1: can I invite someone to my house or things that, yes,
Speaker 1: they can do. UM, but that's highly personal. Use your
Speaker 1: power that you've been given in your position the minute
Speaker 1: you get it to turn around and be able to
Speaker 1: bring as many people as possible. And she did say earlier,
Speaker 1: you know, some women feel like they must go it
Speaker 1: alone because it's harder, they think too um achieve what
Speaker 1: they need to achieve. And that's you know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't think that's a gen X thing, but I've
Speaker 1: heard that a lot from you know, women in my
Speaker 1: generation that you know, they felt this responsibility to go
Speaker 1: and break that ceiling and then pull people along. I
Speaker 1: would is taught pretty early to bring them along with me.
Speaker 1: Peer mentoring. I look at my peers that I grew
Speaker 1: up with, you know, a senator, a mayoral candidate, and
Speaker 1: I can go down the list. We all pulled each
Speaker 1: other along. We never left any one of us behind. UM.
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that's a cultural thing, but
Speaker 1: that's something that I grew up with and I took
Speaker 1: into the workplace. UM. And you know a lot of
Speaker 1: ad color is predicated on that idea of like, let's
Speaker 1: go further together, not alone. UM, so it's sad to
Speaker 1: hear you know that some women may feel that they
Speaker 1: have to go it alone because it'll be harder. Um.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we're coming out of that. I'm hoping. Yeah, me too, Tiffany,
Speaker 1: Me too, Tiffany. Thank you so much for sharing your
Speaker 1: wisdom with us, for giving us some practical things we
Speaker 1: can do. I love I love what you said about
Speaker 1: the village, that we can all be a part of
Speaker 1: someone else's village to help them get to the place
Speaker 1: where they need to get. I love that. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for sharing with us. Thank you. Who yes, Tiffany, Yes,
Speaker 1: Tiffany gave us some excellent recommendations for the workplace. So
Speaker 1: here are three questions to ask yourself. What are the
Speaker 1: barriers and impediments for women and women of color in
Speaker 1: your workplace? And how can you clear the way for
Speaker 1: them to gain the opportunities they need to progress in
Speaker 1: their careers. When you review a resume from a person
Speaker 1: of difference, how can you practice reading between the lines
Speaker 1: to recognize the obstacles that the person had to overcome
Speaker 1: to get to where they are today, such as perseverance,
Speaker 1: or being the first or the only. Finally, Tiffany talked
Speaker 1: about exposing junior employees and mentees to the experiences and
Speaker 1: events that will give them the connections, access, and perspective
Speaker 1: they need to succeed. When you receive an invitation to
Speaker 1: an important conference, seminar, meeting, or event, how can you
Speaker 1: extend that invitation or secure extra tickets or chistration to
Speaker 1: include women and women of color who are junior employees
Speaker 1: or mentees. There are many women who have been able
Speaker 1: to break through so many barriers, and we have even
Speaker 1: more barriers to break. But we will do our best
Speaker 1: breaking of barriers when we work together to be the
Speaker 1: village that gets someone else access to the career they
Speaker 1: want by helping remove the obstacles and impediments that may
Speaker 1: be standing in their way. You're listening to Seneca's Conversations
Speaker 1: on Power and Purpose brought to you by the Seneca
Speaker 1: Women podcast Network and I Heart Radio with support from
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Speaker 1: website at Seneca Women dot com