WEBVTT - Outlook for Gilead’s COVID-19 Treatment 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.960 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.520 Jason Kelly. We're here every day bringing you the latest 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:09.800 news from the world of business and finance, plus technology, politics, economics, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.480 all harnessing the power of Bloomberg Business Week reporters and editors, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.639 not to mention our hundred journalists and analysts more than 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:19.280 a hundred and twenty countries. You can download Bloomberg Business 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.200 Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. You can 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.520 also listen to our radio show weekdays at two pm 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:28.320 Eastern only on Bloomberg Radio. Steve Dennis joins us again, 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:31.800 Senate reporter looking after all things Congress for Bloomberg, joining 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.440 us on the phone from Maryland and a lot of 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.159 politics happening down there on Capitol Hill today, Steve, bring 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:41.320 us up to date. Yeah, so we're kind of stuck 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:45.159 in a stalemate right now for how to replenish this 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:51.000 small Business Fund, the Paycheck Protection Program p P p uh. 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.120 You know, the Minuchan wants an extra quarter of a 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:59.720 trillion dollars a S A P. And the Democrats basically said, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:01.959 but we want to make some changes and we want 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.160 to add more money for hospitals in the States, and 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:07.679 so here we are at an impast. McConnell went to 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.520 the floor this morning, try to just do a clean 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:13.479 two hundred and fifty billion dollar increase for this three 0:01:13.959 --> 0:01:19.320 fifty billion dollar program. The Democrats objected, added their own proposals. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:24.240 McConnell objected, So now we're sort of in this usual 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:30.320 state of Washington of attacking each other, um for blocking things. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.600 And the next you know, it looks like this is 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.039 probably gonna continue for several days over Easter, and you know, 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:43.720 maybe next week they started negotiating something more serious. So 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:47.800 politics aside, Steve, So, who's right, I mean, are the 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.080 Democrats right to include more aid for state and local governments. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.279 I've heard from Governor Cuomo and others about the system 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.040 states are going to need, or you know, the Republicans right, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.120 you know, saying we've got to get you know, money 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.400 to individual work or those small businesses. Who's right about 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:04.680 this in terms of, you know, what needs to be 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:09.040 done first and foremost, Well, the point the Republicans are 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.280 making is that this small business program is already up 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.040 and running and it's going to run out of money. 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:17.760 You know, this this program is supposed to last until 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:21.600 Junior last, the last time these loans can go out. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:26.200 But just since they opened the program on Friday last Friday, 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.400 approximately a hundred billion dollars has already been allocated. Now 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.480 that doesn't mean it's going to get to three billion 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.000 by like Monday or Tuesday. So there is a little 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:40.760 bit of leeway here. And the Democrats are saying, uh, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:43.760 look this program has we like it, but it's got 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.480 some problems. There are lots of small businesses, uh, that 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.520 are having a hard time getting their bank or any 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:54.480 bank to take their application, particularly if there are a 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.600 smaller small business who does who don't already have sort 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.360 of relationship with that inc. And so they want to 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:07.720 see the program expanded, make the application requirements a little 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:11.440 bit smoother and more streamlined, and say, hey, let's sit 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.959 down and talk about this. And McConnell's like, look, let's 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.119 just increase the money now. We can. We can deal 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:20.880 with some of this stuff later. But you know, that's 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:25.160 not how Congress tends to work. It's it's it's very 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:28.640 hard for a divided Congress to parties in a situation 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.080 where every single senator in every single House member needs 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:34.280 to give consent to do anything in this age of 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.240 coronavirus where they're not in session to agree on a 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:42.680 quarter trillion dollars and you know, overnight. So this is 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.760 not unusual that it's going to take sort of several 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:49.839 rounds of parts and attacks on each other and saying, hey, 0:03:50.120 --> 0:03:53.040 you aren't helping out the workers, or your focus too 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.600 much on the bigger businesses and that sort of thing. 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.160 So you know, something's gonna get done. It's just a 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.280 question of when, whether it's gonna be early next week, 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.240 late next week, or we're gonna wait until they come back. 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.600 The schedule to come back the week of April twenties. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.920 It's possible they won't even come back that week because 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.880 people are worried about the virus. Yeah, it's interesting too, 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.160 I mean, this is coming or we're having this conversation 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.960 as a couple of red heads acrossing the Bloomberg about 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:25.480 lockdowns and not in the United States, Spanish parliament backing 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.280 and extending locked backing, extending the lockdown excuse me to April, 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.080 and at the same time, the South African president extending 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.680 the nationwide lockdown by two weeks. So governments are also 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.000 wrestling with this notion of what do we do in 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.599 the meantime? How long are we essentially going to need 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:48.160 to be assisting these companies and the economies, the economy 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.080 of the country. And Steve Dennis, I do also wonder 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:56.080 is Steve Manut in the Treasury sectary He's continuing to 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.640 sort of be the broker in all of this for 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:03.400 the administration. And and Pelosi did get this done last time? Yeah, 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.840 I think, Um, the one relationship in town that seems 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:13.520 to be working right now is Stephen Manuchin with Chuck Schumer, 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:18.760 the Senate Democratic Leader, and Pelosi. That that trio seems 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:22.000 to be able to get things done lately. So you know, 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.920 if Manuchan is on the phone with those two and 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:29.799 and actually negotiating instead of sort of saying, here's our request, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.680 take it or leave it, that's when you know things 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:36.920 are getting closer to an actual deal. Um. And you know, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:40.480 while there has been some good news on the virus lately, 0:05:40.640 --> 0:05:46.880 with the curve starting to flatten and social distancing is helping. 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:49.839 I mean that's sort of like another message to people 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:54.400 listening this is it's actually helping when you socially distance yourself. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.560 We're starting to see some evidence of that. The the 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:01.280 the economic impact is the last a lot longer. We're 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:04.640 already up to seventeen million, and there's lots of reports, 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:09.600 including on Bloomberg reporting that lots of people still can't 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.160 even file in a lot of these states. Their systems 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.120 are so outdated, antiquated. The real number is probably higher. 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:20.320 And you know, all these programs they just passed with 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:23.000 a two point three trillion dollar bill, two point two 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.760 trillion dollars, they're probably all going to be a lot 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.080 more expensive by the time they're all said and done 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.800 in the next couple of months. Alright, Steve Dennis, thank 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:34.160 you so much, senate reporter at Bloomberg News. Joining us 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.960 on the phone from Maryland. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:42.039 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:45.200 We've got Dr Chris Byra with us. He's professor of 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:51.479 epidem epidemiology, Epidemiology, thank you very much, and public health 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.520 and human Rights at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:57.880 and of course we know the Bloomberg School of Public 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.800 Health supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder Mberg LP and 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.600 Bloomberg Philanthropies. Dr Byrot, nice to have you here with us. 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:06.440 I just want to go we want to get into 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.120 because you are specifically looking at prison populations. But I 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:12.800 do want to ask you about one of the headlines 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.920 that we got from Dr Fauci today. Um, the kind 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.440 of go to person along with you folks at John's 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:21.160 Hopkins really think understanding what's going on with the virus. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:24.680 But he's saying, you know, he really slashed those death projections, 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.640 saying that maybe about sixty people may now die, almost 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.160 half as many that the White House had talked about 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.640 about a week ago, based on models and projections. How 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:35.560 should we, as those of us who are still at 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.680 home still social distancings, social distancing, how should we read 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:44.560 headlines like that? Well, I think everybody ought to really 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.840 feel a sense of pride and of our coming together 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:51.320 as a country because the reason that the projections are 0:07:51.400 --> 0:07:55.160 being the numbers are being decreased is because of the 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:59.760 really remarkable success of social distancing, of people taking it seriously, 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.280 staying at home. Uh. And I think also we have 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.320 to say of particularly the leadership, governors and number of 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:12.480 states who move quickly and impose social distancing early. Um, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.600 we're still of course very concerned. Uh and uh, you know, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:20.760 even the downgraded numbers aren't enormous numbers loss of life 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.720 for this country and the world. But really this is 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:30.080 about the the tremendous response to social distancing on the 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.599 part of the American people. And that gives us a 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:36.480 nice segue right into you know, where you are spending 0:08:36.480 --> 0:08:38.960 a lot of your time dr Byroer and that is 0:08:39.840 --> 0:08:42.439 the fact that this is a human rights issue and 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:44.840 in many ways, and part of the reason that the 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:50.160 social distancing works is people are essentially able to socially 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.960 distance themselves. You know, Carol and I and you and 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:55.840 and many other people who are fortunate to be able 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.280 to work from home or you know, sort of live 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:00.800 our lives in a certain way. That one thing. But 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:07.720 this virus is exposing just dramatic gaps and inequalities. And 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.640 certainly nowhere is that more true than than in the 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.120 nation's prisons. Tell us about what you're finding. Well, first 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.600 of all, keep in mind that no country incarcerates more 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.480 of its citizens than the United States. So this is 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:23.920 a particular vulnerability for our country. It's about two point 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.520 three million people currently in jails and prisons, and just 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.560 to understand that that's close to a quarter. It's about 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.000 of all people in the world in prisons and jails, 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:38.120 so we're an outlier. We also have between thirty six 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:42.000 and forty thousand people in immigration detention on any given day. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:44.640 It's a much smaller number, but the conditions they are 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.280 also very worrisome. Uh So, of course, the things that 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:51.200 we've all been asked to do to socially distanced, to 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.120 keep six feet apart, to practice good hygiene, and the 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.440 hand washing, all of those elements are virtually impossible for 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:01.800 people in crowded to ten and facilities. And by people 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.920 in those facilities, I don't just mean the detainees, I 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.880 also mean the staff, guards, people who are in and 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.320 out of those facilities. That puts everybody at risk. And 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:15.200 it also because most of these facilities have three eight 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.600 hour ships today, means that people are constantly in and 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.920 out of these facilities, all the workers and staff, and 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.040 exposing their families. Uh So, this is this is a 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:30.000 very real concern, and we had been concerned about this 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.120 for a while because I've done work in the past 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.320 on other prison related outbreaks of other infectious diseases like 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:41.200 tuberculosis and m d RTV, MERSA, not the cylinder's staff 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:45.400 arius hep C, all of which have been increased in 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:50.840 transmission and risk in in prisons. But unfortunately, what we've 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.720 seen is that the responses have been too slow and 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.400 too late, and now we already have outbreaks underway in 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.480 prisons and jails. The most prominent one is Rikor Island 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.880 in New York, of course very large outbreak, but there's 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.840 one underway in Cook County in Chicago. There's a number 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.679 underway in immigration detention facilities in New Jersey. Those hold 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.680 many people arrested in New York, UH and UH, and 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:19.760 we are really very concerned about those issues. UM. It's 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:23.960 very clear that in the first outbreaks, UH, most of 0:11:24.000 --> 0:11:26.960 the people affected have been staffed. This was true in Wuhan, 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:31.480 and it's true in Rikers, but that changes over time. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:34.600 There's some other things we have to recognize as well. 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.000 I'm sure both of you have seen that there's emerging 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:43.400 evidence about how much more COVID nineteen disease and death 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:47.600 there appears to be in African Americans. And Dr Chris Biro, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.880 who has been kind enough too and patient enough to 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.760 sit with us, Professor of Epidemiology, and Public Health and 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:58.079 Human Rights at John's Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health. Uh, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.200 so nice of you to stay with us, Dr vir 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:02.480 We were just going to start talking with you about 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.440 how disproportionately minorities have been impacted by this virus. UM 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.720 doesn't come as a surprise to me, because I feel 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.560 like often minorities, when it comes to some kinds of 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:17.720 health impact, they often get hit hardest, get hit the hardest. Um. 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:19.679 What are your thoughts about that? How do we make 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:23.200 a difference on the other side of this, Well, I 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.760 think I think it isn't a surprise, unfortunately that we're 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.680 seeing this. I think we are all surprised by the 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.920 magnitude of the difference. Doesn't appear to be a modest difference. 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:36.360 It appears to be a significantly higher rates of both 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:41.480 severe disease and death from COVID nineteen, particularly among African Americans, 0:12:41.480 --> 0:12:45.200 but also Latinos. And this is emerging as an issue 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.480 for some Native American groups, particularly the Navajos. So we're 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.840 we're very concerned. I think there's several factors we have 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:55.560 to pay attention to. So one of the very first 0:12:55.920 --> 0:13:01.079 is a report actually out of a job's position hum 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.240 which Charles blown the Times noted, which is that one 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.280 in five African Americans has a job for which you 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:09.960 can telecommute and work from home. So four out of 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:14.520 five are lower wage workers out there on the front lines. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:19.520 So they're occupational situation in this country is an important exposure. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.760 It's only one in six Latinos who can stay at home. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.720 The second is of course that that means many of 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:29.040 these are workers who also are using public transportation, which 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.280 is emerging of course as a risk. Then we have 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:36.480 the issue of pre existing conditions. So African Americans in particular, 0:13:36.640 --> 0:13:39.160 we've long known have higher rates of some of the 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.079 diseases that predispose you to do badly with COVID if 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.760 you do get exposed, and those include things like hypertension, 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:52.680 diabetes um UH, pre existing history of cancer UH and 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:56.800 also heart disease, which are all elevated in African Americans. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.200 I think the other reality is something that's more on 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:03.280 us as a society, which is of course that they 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.560 have had lower access to healthcare and lower rates of 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.880 health insurance. And if you look across particularly the swath 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:16.240 of the Southeast, which has the largest African American populations, 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.480 we have a lot of red state governors who did 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:23.080 not want to extend the Affordable Care Act with Medicaid UH, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.960 and did not extend the Health Insurance Ranchise right now, 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:30.880 as you may know, that administration did not open another 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:34.400 round of a c A sign ups uh and UH. 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:36.720 And so in the midst of this crisis, we're still 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.200 limiting people's access to health and shure UH and that 0:14:40.400 --> 0:14:44.560 disproportionately affects low income people, and low income people in 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.720 the US is always confounded by race and ethnicity. So 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.520 I think all of those factors, the their employment and 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:56.600 use of public transportation, the pre existing conditions, the lower 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:01.160 access to healthcare, the disproportionate lack of access to the 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:04.560 Affordable Care Act in the South and Southeast, all these 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.120 factors are coming together, unfortunately, and what what we call 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:13.000 a syndemic. It's it's an interaction of multiple factors. Well, 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.320 let's hope that folks take notice. UH, and there is 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.360 something that we address on the other side of this, 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.960 because we certainly are having the conversation, but it would 0:15:20.960 --> 0:15:23.120 be great to see some action as well on the 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.560 other side. UM, thank you, thank you so much for 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:29.000 your time. Dr Buyer, and we really appreciate you awaiting 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.720 lest we took that press conference. Dr Chris ban Byer 0:15:32.040 --> 0:15:35.480 He's professor of epidemiology and public Health and Human Rights 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.840 at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and of 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.920 course the Bloomberg School of Public Health, supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, Founder, 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:46.240 Bloomberg LP, and Bloomberg Philanthropies. You're listening to Bloomberg Business 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:50.280 Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:52.280 We do want to get to the cover story of 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.880 the magazine about how everyone is talking about it more 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.000 notably seems to be using Zoom. Let's get right to it. 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.600 It is, as we mentioned the cover story story. Drake 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.160 Bennett is projects an investigations reporter, on the phone in 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.920 New York along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber. 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.120 He's on the phone in Brooklyn. So Joel, Uh, this 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:12.040 is a story. I'm so glad you guys are doing. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.720 It's a story and it's the company everybody's talking about. Yeah, 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.200 this is one that the moment that we all uh 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.160 you know, went on lock like wait a second, you 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.240 guys see what's been going on with Zoom share price 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:27.960 and that was actually even before the lockdown, and this 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.840 was a company that you know has obviously got a 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:36.280 product video conferencing, that is really really important right now. 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.840 And I think with the beauty of the story that 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:42.160 Drake and who co authored the story with Nico Grant, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.360 the thing that they realized was like, look, this business 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:48.440 model was really great pre coronavirus, and now it's just 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:53.080 been consumed by everybody using this product. And that's why 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:54.960 we you know, I almost liken it too if this 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:59.720 accidental social networks like and they've been growing now almost 0:16:59.800 --> 0:17:03.120 at a speed at which the pandemic has spread, and 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.359 with that has come a bunch of challenges. Um, Drake, 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.480 what kind of challenges stick out to you? Because the 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:15.600 zoom the zoom lash is real. Yeah, I mean what's um, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.560 what's a little ironic is that Eric Yuan, the founder 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.359 of them, was someone who was really, um, kind of 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.800 paranoid about making sure that he had built in enough 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.600 capacity for his network to be able to absorb kind 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.639 of unheard of levels of traffic. So you always have 0:17:31.720 --> 0:17:33.560 this policy that you always want to have like twice 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:38.040 the server capacity of their sort of highest peak use um. 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:40.920 And so in that way, they've done a pretty good 0:17:41.000 --> 0:17:44.200 job of like managing just the numbers. But the thing 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.159 that he was not prepared for in the company was 0:17:46.160 --> 0:17:49.119 not prepared for. It was just um the privacy and 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.159 security issues that would emerge once you suddenly had the 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.879 entire world using this and using it in a way 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:57.680 that they had not designed it for. You know, people 0:17:57.720 --> 0:18:00.760 are putting their entire socialized as you put it on 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.480 this platform which was designed for you know, like work 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:10.400 video conferencing. And I'm just I'm fascinated by the by 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:14.040 the Zoom lash here, uh Drake, I mean New York City, 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.720 it's just been it's just been brutal, uh in terms 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.840 of the response, and you know, even just talking to 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:22.480 people around the neighborhood, you know, folks like, yeah, I 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.359 want to Yeah, we should do this, But how do 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.120 they sort of get people back on side, especially sort 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:32.119 of more regulated entities. Yeah, I mean I think that, 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.040 you know, just in terms of the I think it's 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.560 helpful to kind of think of the problems in kind 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.840 of three categories. You know. One is these issues about 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.600 how what kind of data Zoom gets about you and 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:50.640 how they use it. Another category is um security vulnerabilities 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:55.360 that that arise um uh, where you know, Zoom can 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.200 be used by hackers to get malware under your computer, 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.520 or hackers could use it to take over your webcam 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:03.120 and spy on you. Um And and the third one 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.960 is is um is these incidents where people are just 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.320 sort of you know, whether it's sort of board kids 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:13.440 who are home from school or kind of white supremacist 0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.560 trolls are using it to kind of invade people's meetings 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:22.560 and disrupt them in kind of horrifying ways. And so Zoom, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.320 to its credit, has been very quick to respond to 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.679 almost all of the concerns that have been raised. I mean, 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:32.520 they've they've patched these vulnerabilities, they've changed their privacy policy. 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.639 You know, they've hired all these consultants. They're getting you know, 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.520 sort of white hat hackers to come to penetration tests 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:41.639 on their system. So they're trying very hard, and I 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:43.720 think it's a good, very good faith effort to try 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:46.720 to deal with this stuff. Um And you know, as 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.080 Joel pointed out, a lot of this is just the 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:52.880 fact that they've grown at this this kind of time 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:56.120 scale that no other social network has had to contend with. 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.760 I mean, and to get to get those numbers out there, Drake, 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.440 what it was like ten million users daily, US million 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.760 users in December and then two million users, probably more 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.359 than that now, but when they announced it if from 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.720 ten to two million, which is just you know, it's 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:16.320 like the crazy orders of magnitude growth. And when you 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:19.440 really think about that, it's like it's basically critical infrastructure. 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:21.320 That's what we call it in the story, like it 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.560 is the thing that you know, you're talking to your 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.399 colleagues with your my kids classroom is using it for 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.560 their morning check ins, it's and people are going on 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:34.760 dates through this, We're having constant hours. It's it's just 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:39.600 amazing how it's become sort of the software of the moment. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:42.760 But you know, Drake, I thought, you know, another thing 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.280 that that you had been able to hit on here 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.840 was that this comes from the initial idea. It was 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:54.520 a really simple interface and the simplicity of that is 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:57.919 actually what allowed it to meet this moment. Well. And listen, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.399 everybody needs to go to the magazine, go online to 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.680 Bloomberg dot com and read the entire story. And we're 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:04.600 gonna talk with the CEO and founder of Zoom a 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.359 little bit later on. So for thanks, to Drake and 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.119 to Joel. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:21:11.160 --> 0:21:14.760 Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. One of the 0:21:14.760 --> 0:21:17.760 big stories though today we're certainly some action by the 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:22.119 Federal Reserve and actually hearing from fedhare J Powell uh 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:24.880 in a webcast hosted by the Brookings Institution. Let's start 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:26.679 right there, a little snippet of what he had to 0:21:26.720 --> 0:21:29.399 say at the FED. We're doing all we can to 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.800 help shephard the economy through this difficult time. When the 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:35.840 spread of the virus is under control, businesses will reopen 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:39.040 and people will come back to work. There is every 0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:41.840 reason to believe that the economic rebound when it comes 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:46.239 can be robust. All right, So let's break down with 0:21:46.280 --> 0:21:50.159 our economics team. We've got them gathered remotely as we do, 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.000 as everyone does these days. Kathleen Hayes with US Global 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:57.400 Economics and Policy Editor from Bloomberg, on the phone from Pennsylvania. 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.160 Carl Wick, Donna, chief economys for Bloomberg at Economics. He's 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:03.719 on the phone from New Jersey. Kathleen, I want to 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.600 start with you hadn't heard from j. Pale since he 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:08.560 popped up on the today show. A couple of weeks ago, 0:22:08.600 --> 0:22:11.679 we talked to you about that, uh several times. What 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:14.879 did you hear from j pal today? That was most important? 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.840 Reassurance the set is doing what it can. The FED 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.919 has done more for the feed. It's not necessarily about spending, 0:22:22.000 --> 0:22:24.760 it's about lending. I think he's trying to, you know, 0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:28.640 quietly address his concern that maybe the FED could pick 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.320 winners and losers with some of these new programs has 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:34.360 put into place, and reassurance that the said knows how 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:37.480 bad the situation is for the economy right now, how 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.080 there's going to be no not even the thought of 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:44.159 moving the key rate above zero until it's clear that 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.919 the economy is launched into recovery. And finally that he 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:51.760 thinks there's he thinks there's a chance, if things go well, 0:22:51.880 --> 0:22:53.760 that we will see a rebound in the second half 0:22:53.760 --> 0:22:56.320 of the year. I think that's the kind of reassuring 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.840 fireside chat that people needed to hear. Right as we 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.120 at the top of our broadcast, you know, the FED 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.800 to the rescue again. What we heard, though the exact 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:09.000 words from FED Chief j Pale was an economic rebound 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.680 that will be robust. Carl Ricka Donna, do you agree 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.560