1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. We're taking 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,319 Speaker 1: a little trip today to both the time and a 5 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: place that have not gotten as much attention on our 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: show recently. That's largely my fault. My picks for the 7 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: show have have largely been like United States twentieth century 8 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: lately for reasons. Well, we'll break out of that right today. 9 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Spain and it's American colonies 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. And we have to 11 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: tip our hats to Jason poor Atha rejected princesses for 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: this idea, because that is where we first heard about, 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: or at least I first heard about Catalina de Arouso, 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: who was nicknamed the Lieutenant Nunn in spite of being 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: left in the care of a convent at about age 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: four and coming very close to taking religious dows as 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: a nun Catalina, they are also wound up living a 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: life of danger and adventure, and a lot of today's 19 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: episode falls into the general category of exploits. There are 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 1: thefts and fights and stabbings and narrow escapes, along with 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: a range of kind of suggestive encounters. And she either 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: wrote or dictated an autobiography sometime between sixteen twenty six 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: and sixteen thirty and while a lot of the historical 24 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: details in that autobiography have been substantiated, there are other 25 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: parts they're almost certainly embellished. She has an unbelievable number 26 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: of surprise encounters with parents and brothers and uncles and 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: other relatives who none of them recognize her as she's 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: wearing men's clothes. Uh, and her employers are just astonishingly 29 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: forgiving of her habit of knifing people. At the same time, 30 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: her autobiography also raises a lot of very interesting questions 31 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: about how to think about her gender. But you're going 32 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: to talk about in this episode as well. You know, 33 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 1: my employers have always been very chill when my knife people. Yeah, 34 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: I know, when I was your boss, all those stabbings, 35 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: I was like the other way. I never knifed anyone. 36 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: This is not an admission of guilt. Um to be 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: careful what we say. But Catalina di Arouso lived during 38 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: the Golden Age of Spain, the Habsburg dynasty, came to 39 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: power in Spain following the deaths of Ferdinand and Isabella, 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 1: and after Christopher Columbus's famed voyage to the America's beginning 41 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: in fourteen two, the nation expanded its empire dramatically. Spain 42 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: claimed a huge part of the America's and started establishing 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: colonies there to increase the size of the empire, to 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: send wealth back to Spain, and to spread Christianity to 45 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: the indigenous population. The creation and maintenance of such a 46 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: vast colonial empire, especially one that was so often at 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: violent odds with the people already living in the America's, 48 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: meant that by the time Catalina was born, Spain had 49 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: a huge military. Her family was prominent and well off 50 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: thanks to inheritances and to the men's military careers. Her father, Miguel, 51 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: had been an officer and had served in the Spanish 52 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: colonies before she was born, and all four of her 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: brothers ultimately would serve in the Americas as well. Catalina, 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,919 Speaker 1: the middle child, also had four sisters, and they all 55 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: had far fewer opportunities than their brothers did. Catalina and 56 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: her sisters, while still very young, were placed in the 57 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: Dominican Convent of San Sebastian the Elder, where their aunt 58 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: Ursula was the prioress, and this was relatively typical for 59 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: their position in society. At the end of their education 60 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: at the convent, they were expected to either marry or 61 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 1: become nuns. Those were the only real options for women 62 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: in the Golden Age of Spain. Yeah, there were very 63 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: few exceptions to that. San Sebastian was also the name 64 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: of the town where she was born. Today it's located 65 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: in the Basque Autonomous Community in northeastern Spain. The family 66 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: spoke both Spanish and Biscayan, which is a Basque language dialect. 67 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: The Basque ethnic identity as it exists today was still 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: sort of developing when Catalina lived. She refers to herself 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: and others from the region as Biscanoes, and she was 70 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: basically part of the community that was coalescing into the 71 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: Basque ethnic group as it exists today. According to Catalina's autobiography, 72 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: she was born in five but according to church records, 73 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 1: she was baptized on February tenth of making it far 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: more likely that she was born a lot closer to 75 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: that year, and it's not clear whether she deliberately fludged 76 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,600 Speaker 1: her age to make herself seem older, or whether that 77 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 1: was simply an error made when the autobiography was being 78 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: written down or even just copied, but regardless, she was 79 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,719 Speaker 1: sent to the convent when she was about four. We 80 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: know almost nothing about her years at the convent, but 81 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: when she was about fifteen and still a novice, she 82 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: got into an argument with one of the nuns. This 83 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: other nun was a widow who had entered the convent 84 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 1: after the death of her husband. According to Catalina's account, 85 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: the older nun beat her, and that is when she 86 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: decided to make her escape. She got her chance when 87 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: her aunt Ursula sent her on an errand to fetch 88 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: her bravery from her cell. So a bravery, in case 89 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 1: you did not know, is a book of prayers, psalms 90 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: and other religious texts and readings, and normally Ursula's cell 91 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: was locked, but she'd given Catalina the key. While she 92 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: was there, Catalina noticed the keys to the rest of 93 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: the convent hanging on the wall, so she left her 94 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: once door unlocked, delivered the bravery and the key to 95 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: the cell door, and not long after told her aunt 96 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: she was sick. And asked to be excused from prayer. 97 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 1: Her aunt let her go, but instead of going back 98 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: to her own room, she went back to that cell, 99 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: where she took scissors, a needle, thread, some pieces of eight, 100 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 1: and the keys to the convent. She then quietly made 101 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: her way out of the convent while all of the 102 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: other nuns were still at prayer, carefully closing all the 103 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: doors behind her until she got outside. From there, she 104 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: hid in a grove behind the convent for three days, 105 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: carefully figuring out how to cut apart her clothing and 106 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: then sew it back together to fashion men's attire. I 107 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 1: love this part of her story. Uh. She did a 108 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: good enough job that she was able to make it 109 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: to Vittoria, roughly a hundred kilometers about sixty miles away 110 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: to the southwest, without attracting any attention. She foraged and 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: scavenged for food along the way, and this was the 112 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: beginning of many years for her of living as a man. 113 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: A few days after she arrived in Victoria, she met 114 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: a professor who bought her some new clothes and was 115 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: impressed enough with her knowledge of Latin that he wanted 116 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: to tutor her, But Catalina did not want to be tutored, 117 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: and turned him down. When he became so insistent that 118 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: he put his hands on her, she decided again to leave, 119 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: stealing some coins to pay her way. She continued southwest 120 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: until she got to Vada Lead, where she became a 121 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: court page and started going by the name Cisco Loyola. 122 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: She did quite well in Viato Lead, working as a 123 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: page secured her an income, and the king's secretary kept 124 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: her fed and outfitted well. But one night her father, 125 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: who apparently knew her patron, showed up and he and 126 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: her patron had a conversation all about how upset he 127 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,239 Speaker 1: was that his daughter had run away from the convent, 128 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: and Catalina decided at that point that the wisest move 129 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: would be to just leave. For the next couple of years, 130 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: she continued to drift around Spain, winding up in jail 131 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: at least once after a boy's haunted her and she 132 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: hit him with a rock, and working as a page 133 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: for a man named Carlos de Ariano. Roughly three years 134 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: after leaving the convent, Catalina, on a whim, went back 135 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: home to San Sebastian, attending mass at the convent, which 136 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: is where her mother went to mass as well, and 137 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: her mother was there that day, but no one, it seems, 138 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: recognized Catalina, although one of the nuns did call out 139 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: to her in some way at the end of the mass, 140 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: but Catalina pretended not to know her and left. It's 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: pretty unclear from her autobiography whether this nun was saying, hey, 142 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: I don't recognize you, Come introduce yourself, or whether the 143 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 1: nun did seem to be like, you look familiar, or 144 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: both of those things, hey I don't know you. Regardless, though, 145 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: this visit home was Catalina's last major stop before going 146 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: on to the America's, which we will talk about after 147 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:34,239 Speaker 1: a quick sponsor break. After a little more wandering, Catalina 148 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: di Arouso went to Sevilla in southwestern Spain, where she 149 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: met Captain Miguel d'aturetta. He was an officer in a 150 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: Spanish galleon that was headed for the Caribbean, and the 151 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: galleon was, by coincidence captain by her uncle. Catalina signed 152 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: on as a cabin boy, and they eventually made their 153 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: way from port to Venezuela, where they collected a cargo 154 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: of silver to return to Spain. At this point. Before 155 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: she left, she had basically made her way from the 156 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: northeastern corner of Spain to the southwestern corner of Spain 157 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: over the course of a few years, and up until 158 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: this point, Catalina's property crimes had been relatively minor. She 159 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 1: would steal scissors or a few coins as she made 160 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: an escape, but that changed when the galleon was ready 161 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: to return to Spain. By that point, she had been 162 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: promoted to her uncle's personal servant, and while he was asleep, 163 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: she stole five hundred pesos, told the guards he had 164 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: sent her to shore on an errand, and left. She 165 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: used that most of her money while briefly working for 166 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: someone in Panama who didn't pay her very well. But 167 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: then she got another job aboard another ship, this time 168 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 1: working for a merchant named one day er Kisa. After 169 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: surviving a capsizing and finally arriving safely in port with 170 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: all the cargo, her job was to forward it onto 171 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: the people who had bought it, something he trusted her 172 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: to do on her own unsupervised while he went head 173 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: to another town. Once she caught up with them, he 174 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 1: was so pleased with her work that he gave of 175 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: her a job in his shop and provided her with 176 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: her own staff and household help, which included two enslaved people. 177 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: Similarly to how her petty crimes jumped up a notch 178 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: in Venezuela, her temper also got more violent. In Panama. 179 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: A man that she identified only as Rays blocked her 180 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: view at a theater and threatened to slash her face 181 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 1: when she tried to get him to move, and when 182 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: she saw him passing by the shop the next day, 183 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: she closed it up, grabbed a knife, and hunted him down, 184 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: slashing his face instead. She ran into a church to 185 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: take refuge, but she was pursued by the sheriff, shackled, 186 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: and taken to jail. This would be the first of 187 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: quite a lot of fights involving daggers, knives, swords or 188 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: other blades, followed by flights into church to take refuge, 189 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: followed by time in jail, and in spite of the 190 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: fact that she was pretty clearly the instigator most of 191 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: the time, her employers kept coming to her defense. Uh, 192 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: this is what happened this first time. It would continue 193 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: you to happen later on in her story. In this case, 194 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 1: her employer talked to the magistrate on her behalf and 195 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: finally got her released into the custody of a bishop 196 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: after about three months. But at that point Catalina was 197 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,959 Speaker 1: afraid that she would constantly be looking over her shoulder 198 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: for Reis to come after her, so her employer proposed 199 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: a solution. She would marry Beatrice to Cardenas, who was 200 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: both raised his aunt and her boss's lover. And keep 201 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: in mind, even though she did not identify as a man, 202 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: she was still living as a man, so all of 203 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 1: these people believed that she would make a lovely bridegroom. 204 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: Catalina said that there was no way that she was 205 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: going to agree to this marriage, so Wanda or Kisa 206 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,319 Speaker 1: offered to transfer her to a store in another town 207 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 1: doing the same work, but out of the path of 208 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: Rays or the local police. Of course, this did not work. 209 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: Ray's and two of his friends tracked her down, and 210 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: the ensuing sword fight, she killed one of them. She 211 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: then fled to Lima, Peru, bearing a letter of recommendation 212 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: from her former boss, who was still willing to recommend 213 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,040 Speaker 1: her after all of this, which let her get a 214 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: job with another merchant there, but that job didn't last 215 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 1: long either. Her employer and Lima was married and his 216 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: wife had two sisters living with the family. Both young 217 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: women were very fond of Catalina, and her employer passed 218 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: by a window one day and saw Catalina cuddling together 219 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: with one of these sisters, who was combing Catalina's hair, 220 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: and overheard the sister tell Catalina that she should earn 221 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: enough money to allow them to get married, and her 222 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: employer confronted her and Catalina left. This would become part 223 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: of the overall pattern of Catalina's life. In addition to 224 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: having to leave town after fighting with or killing someone, 225 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 1: she also made several escapes after being caught alone in 226 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: a suggestive way with the wife's sister or a girlfriend 227 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: of whichever man was employing or sheltering her at the time. 228 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: As far as we know, all of these folks believed 229 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: her to be a man. And while her autobiography never 230 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: specifically says what she was up to with all of 231 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: these women and homosexuality was punishable by death, it's all 232 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: written with a lot of implied winking and innuendo, and 233 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: her autobiography it's like we should we should know what 234 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 1: she means when she says fooling around, but it's also 235 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: very embellished, so who knows, right, Like, there's there's that 236 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: patina of m ha about the whole thing where you 237 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: can't quite take any of it at face value. Yep, 238 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: it's tricky. And eventually though, Catalina left her merchant life 239 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: and she joined the military, and although she wasn't traveling 240 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: under her birth name, she did list her real place 241 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: of birth when she registered, and it turned out that 242 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: her brother, Captain Miguel de Arauso, was secretary to the 243 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: governor of the port of Concepcion, which was Catalina's first 244 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: destination during her time with the army, and she had 245 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: not seen her brother since she was too so of 246 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: course he didn't recognize her at all, but upon seeing 247 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: where she was from, he did ask for stories from 248 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 1: home and how his family was, and that included asking 249 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 1: after his sister, Catalina the nun. This is one of 250 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 1: those moments, many moments in the autobiography that raises some questions. 251 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 1: Catalina's family in San Sebastian knew that she had not 252 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: become a nun, and at this point years had passed 253 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: since she had left the convent, So if her brother 254 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: was in touch with any of the family at all. 255 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: Logically by now he would have heard about her disappearance, 256 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: so this could be an embellishment for the sake of drama, 257 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: or given that you know, it might take a really 258 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: long time for mail to get anywhere in the seventeenth century, 259 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: may he just genuinely could not have heard word of 260 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: his sister's whereabouts. Because Miguel was homesick, he asked for 261 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: the young recruit from his hometown to be assigned as 262 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: his personal aid, and Catalina actually served in that capacity 263 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: for three years until they had a falling out after 264 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: she went to visit Miguel's girlfriend without him. This led 265 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: to another fight, another refuge in a church, another banishment, 266 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: the end of her assignment as her brother's aid, and 267 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: finally a move into combat. Catalina was eventually promoted to 268 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: the rank of lieutenant, and she served for five years, 269 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: apparently undetected that she was a woman. There's not a 270 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: lot of detail about exactly where Catalina served and what 271 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: she did while serving, but at this point the Spanish 272 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: Empire had been at war with the Mapuche people in 273 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 1: Chile for decades. Catalina's autobiography rites of being prolific in 274 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: battle against quote Indians, including being put in command after 275 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: the death of her captain and being wounded, all without 276 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: being discovered to be a woman. At one point, she 277 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: hanged an indigenous leader who had surrendered to her, which 278 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: angered the governor who had wanted him captured alive. Afterward, 279 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: Catalina was effectively demoted and sent back to Concepsim, and 280 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: while there she got into a sword fight after dark, 281 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: and she killed a man who turned out to be 282 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: her brother. Heartbroken, she once again fled, falling in with 283 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: some renegade soldiers, working as a pack driver, and then 284 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: becoming sort of a frontier investigator tracking down people who 285 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: had committed crimes. While her autobiography does have a whole 286 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: lot of stabbings and fights and that sort of thing, 287 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: it wasn't all terrible. On the way to Laplata, Argentina, 288 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: she helped rescue and shelter a woman who was fleeing 289 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: a murderous husband, including dueling said husband in a church, 290 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: being rescued from being hauled off to jail once again 291 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: by two sympathetic Franciscan friars. Around sixty three, Catalina got 292 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: into a fight in Cuzco, Peru with a man calling 293 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: himself El Sid, and they were playing cards and he 294 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: kept stealing her money from her pile, and in the 295 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: ensuing fight she was seriously injured. When the surgeon arrived, 296 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: he was afraid she would die and refused to treat 297 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: her unless she confessed first. So she told Father Luis 298 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: Ferre de Valencia her entire story, and he absolved her 299 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: of her sins. At least according to her autobiography, this 300 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: is the first person she told after a very long time. 301 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: Elsid tracked her down once she had recovered, though, and 302 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: after a second fight with him, she tried to get 303 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: out of the Cusco authority's jurisdiction. She made it to Guamonga, 304 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,880 Speaker 1: but the laws still caught up with her there. Bishop 305 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: Augustine to Carba Hall intervened in the middle of her 306 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: being arrested and gave her refuge once again in a church, 307 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: and she once again confessed her entire story, all twenty 308 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: years of it since running away from the convent. The 309 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: bishop not surprisingly found her story remarkable, but he also 310 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: had some doubts. Two midwives were summoned to examine her, 311 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: and afterward they both attested that she was a virgin. 312 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: In a somewhat odd turn of events, the bishop then 313 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: forgave all her past murdering and carousing and offered to 314 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 1: help and protect her. He placed her in the Convent 315 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: of the Holy Trinity in Lima, Peru, while he investigated 316 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,120 Speaker 1: whether she had actually taken her vows as a nun 317 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: back in San Sebastian. As they waited for an answer, 318 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: Catalina became really famous as people started learning all these 319 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 1: stories about the quote lieutenant nun or sometimes none, lieutenant 320 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: who was being kept in the convent and who had 321 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: fought in the army for years dressed as a man. 322 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: Catalina spent more than two years in the convent, and 323 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,160 Speaker 1: once it was determined that no, she had not officially 324 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: become a nun, she began making preparations to return to Spain. 325 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: By coincidence, she met two more of her brother's on 326 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 1: route home, and when she got back to Spain, it 327 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: turned out that her fame had preceded her. Huge crowds 328 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: gathered to see the lieutenant nun in her men's clothes. 329 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: She traveled around Europe before seeking an audience with the 330 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,400 Speaker 1: King Philip. The fourth, seeking up pension for her services 331 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,919 Speaker 1: rendered to Spain while in the army, and in sixty 332 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: five she was ultimately granted that pension, which was eight 333 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: hundred escudos. From there, her travels took her to Rome, 334 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 1: where she saw an audience with Pope Urban the eighth. 335 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: After he heard her story, he granted her permission to 336 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: continue living her life dressed as a man. There's some 337 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: debate about exactly what happened in this audience or whether 338 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: it's an embellishment. Yeah, I found a lot more historical 339 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,680 Speaker 1: discussion about why he would have made that allowance, which 340 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: is we said earlier, was outlawed. It was also suspect 341 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: morally on different levels. Um. I found a lot more 342 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: discussion about what and why, and not whether it happened 343 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 1: at all. Catalina's autobiography ends not long after her audience 344 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: with the Pope, and there's not much about her in 345 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: the historical record beyond that point. As we said at 346 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: the top of the show, the autobiography was written down 347 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: somewhere between sixteen twenty six and sixteen thirty and either 348 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: she wrote it herself or dictated it to someone. It's 349 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: not quite clear. The autobiography itself combines several literary genres 350 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: that were quite popular at the time. It was part confessional, 351 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: part soldiers memoir, and part picuresque. Had it been widely 352 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: published at that time, it really might have become a 353 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,719 Speaker 1: best seller, especially given how she became famous pretty much 354 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: immediately as soon as people heard her story. But apart 355 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: from a couple of copies, that was lost until the 356 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: nineteenth century, and it was published for the first time 357 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty nine, we do know from the historical 358 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: record that she went back to San Sebastian and signed 359 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: her portion of her family's estate over to her sister 360 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: on September twenty nine, sixteen twenty nine, and she returned 361 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: to the America's in sixteen thirty, where she lived the 362 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: rest of her life as Antonio di Arouso, a mule driver. 363 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: She died in sixteen fifty in Mexico. And prior episodes 364 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: of the show, when somebody's identity, especially their gender, has 365 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: been ambiguous in some way, we've generally used the same 366 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,560 Speaker 1: pronoun that they did for themselves, along with the same 367 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,919 Speaker 1: name that they actually used in their own life. And 368 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: we'll talk about why that wasn't exactly where we landed 369 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: with Catalina after another quick sponsor break. There are a 370 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: lot of ambiguities and contradictions about Catalina Dear Rouso's entire identity, 371 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: and they're complicated by Catalina's own writings, by the Spanish 372 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: language itself, and by how people understood gender in seventeenth 373 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: century Spain. So typically on our show, as we said, 374 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: we used the same name and pronouns that the person 375 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: we are discussing did in their own life, with the 376 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: only real exception being when it was very clear that 377 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: somebody was using a different name and pronoun temporarily as 378 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,640 Speaker 1: part of a disguise, not as a reflection of their 379 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: own identity. But Callina really blurred a lot of those lines. Yea. 380 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: So during her lifetime she went by at least four 381 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: different names, and she also either wrote or dictated her 382 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: autobiography in Spanish, which is of course grammatically gendered in 383 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: a way that English is not, and that autobiography flips 384 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: back and forth between the use of masculine and feminine 385 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: inflections in a way that doesn't always match with how 386 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: Catalina was actually living at that point in the story. Also, 387 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 1: in seventeenth century Spain, the overall concept of women was 388 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: heavily influenced by the biblical story of Adam and Eve, 389 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 1: and although there were definitely writers and philosophers who were 390 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: expressing other views, overall, women weren't so much thought of 391 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: as a different sex from men, but as sort of 392 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: an inferior version of men, sometimes even being described as 393 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: an error or a mistake. Female anatomy was even framed 394 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: as an inverted or inward expression of male anatomy. And 395 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,120 Speaker 1: this was such a different understanding of sex and gender, 396 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: but it makes it challenging for modern readers to even 397 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: imagine how someone living at the time might have conceived 398 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: of themselves. English language translations of Catalina's autobiography, of which 399 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: three were consulted for this episode, consistently used a pronoun 400 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: she in chapter titles, and they framed the work as 401 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 1: the writing of a woman who was cross dressing as 402 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: a man. This is the least anachronistic way to tell 403 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: Catalina's story. Cross dressing was definitely a phenomenon when and 404 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: where she lived, to the point that women dressing in 405 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 1: men's clothes was specifically outlawed repeatedly in the Spanish Empire. 406 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: During her lifetime, So what Catalina was doing was both 407 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 1: unlawful and taboo, regardless of whether you think of it 408 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,560 Speaker 1: as a disguise or as an expression of gender, which 409 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: of course further complicates the matter of how she would 410 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: have presented it in her writing right. And there's a 411 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: lot more variety in how scholars writing about Catalina, rather 412 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: than translating the autobiography, use pronouns and interpret her life. 413 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: Most but not all of them use the pronoun she, 414 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,479 Speaker 1: while also acknowledging all these layers of ambiguity in her story. 415 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: A few change pronouns and names over the course of 416 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: the work, sometimes in a way that winds up being confusing, 417 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: which is one of the reasons we did not do 418 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 1: that in this episode. Although some work is viewed through 419 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: a more modern reading of Catalina as a transgender man, 420 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: none at least that we have found, used the pronoun 421 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 1: he or one of her more masculine names from beginning 422 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,879 Speaker 1: to end, and there are even contradictions in the historical 423 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: record from those last decades of her life spent as 424 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: a mule driver named Antonio de Arouso. There are two 425 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: eyewitness accounts from late in Catalina's life. One is the 426 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: testimony of Captain Juan Perez de Agierre, who testified in 427 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: a hearing about the Arouso estate Insta Steen forty and 428 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: in his testimony he said that all of the Arouso 429 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: brothers were dead except for one, who he named as 430 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: Don Antonia did Arouso alias Alfarez Mocha, and Alfarez Mocha 431 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: means lieutenant nune. The other is the testimony of a 432 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: friar who described at meeting with Catalina, which took place 433 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: in Vera Cruz to another friar, and he made that 434 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: description later on in their lives, and he talks about 435 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: seeing and speaking to La Moja Alpharez Dona Catalina, the 436 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:37,120 Speaker 1: Arouso who went by the name of Antonio de Arouso. 437 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: So in these two statements, one man speaks about Don Antonio, 438 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 1: the lieutenant Nun, and the other talks about the lieutenant 439 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: nun Catalina. You'll sometimes also see it written as Katarina, 440 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,159 Speaker 1: and we're not sure if that's a typo unique to 441 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: that particular text or not, or if she actually did 442 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: change up by one letter her name. In that case, 443 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: he refers to her, but then as someone who went 444 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: by the name of Antonio, so both statements blend names 445 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: and genders, and while one starts with don Antonio, the 446 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: other starts with Donia Catalina or Catalina. It's also possible 447 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: that one friar misspoke by letter, so long story short, 448 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: however you look at it, Catalina's identity is really fluid, 449 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 1: both in her own words and how other people saw her, 450 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: and in the end, although there is definitely room for 451 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: other interpretation here, we settled on using she and Catalina 452 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,360 Speaker 1: rather than he and Antonio, because that's how Catalina framed 453 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: her own story. Her autobiography begins I Donia Catalina. There 454 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: also was born in the year in the village of 455 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: San Sebastian, and it ends with two girls calling her Catalina, 456 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,040 Speaker 1: Although to be fair, after they do that, she threatens 457 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: both of them. It does seem like she was fond 458 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: of threatening people, regardless of their behavior in some cases, 459 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: so we can't presume that was as she thought they 460 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: were calling her. Something I would I would really love 461 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: at this point in my life. On on my wish 462 00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: list of things I wish the universe would just grant 463 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 1: to me is a new translation of her autobiography by 464 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: somebody who is an expert in both the Spanish Golden 465 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 1: Age and also in uh, like gender and sexuality and 466 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: queer history, like that whole umbrella, to see what that 467 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,400 Speaker 1: take on the autobiography would be, because the most recent translation, 468 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: at least that I know of, is from about ninety six, 469 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: and at this point in terms of like how various 470 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: historical conversations around gender and around sexual orientation and all 471 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: that stuff like that's kind of dated at this point. 472 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: So it's entirely possible if if we were recording this 473 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: podcast twenty years from now, we would have landed in 474 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: a totally different place on what to call Catalina there 475 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,239 Speaker 1: also and what pronoun to use. Do you also have 476 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: some listener mail or do uh? This is from Rebecca 477 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: Uh and it is a little it's brief. We're gonna 478 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: talk about the Kiahoga River um and Rebecca's is a 479 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: long time listener, first time emailer. I love the episode 480 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: on the Cuyahoga River fires. And mom's family is from 481 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 1: the Cleveland area and I ended up going to school 482 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: in Cleveland for undergrad where I was briefly on the 483 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: rowing team. The river's still pretty gross. During the transition 484 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: between winter and spring, the fish and the river get 485 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: confused because the water has warmed up but not enough 486 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: for them to breathe closer to the surface. It wasn't 487 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 1: uncommon for dying desperate fish to jump into the boat 488 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: or to accidentally or accidentally in air quotes, fling a 489 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: dead fish at the cox with your ore. Uh. That 490 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 1: is simultaneously kind of funny and horrifying and sad um. 491 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: But I wanted to read it just to reiterate that, yes, 492 00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: there is still a lot of pollution uh in Cuyahoga 493 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: River and the Great Lakes and many other waterways in 494 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: the United States and elsewhere. Also, we've had a number 495 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: of folks point out to us that when we said 496 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: the National Environmental Protection Act, that could should have been 497 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: the National Environmental Policy Act, because I typed the wrong 498 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: word beginning with P in my notes. So that's that correction. 499 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: Thank you Rebecca for writing in. If you would like 500 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: to write to us about this or any other podcast, 501 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: where History podcasts at how Stuffworks dot com. We're also 502 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: on Facebook at facebook dot com slash miss in History 503 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: and on Twitter at miss in History. Our tumbler is 504 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: missing History dot tumbler dot com. We're also on Pinterest 505 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: at pinterest dot com slash miss in History, and that's 506 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: also our instagram, is missed in History. You can come 507 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 1: to our website, which is missing history dot com and 508 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: find show notes on every episode that Holly and I 509 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: have ever worked on together, and a searchable archive of 510 00:29:55,080 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: the entire body of every episode ever nine son of 511 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: the time. If you wonder if we have something, you 512 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: need to type it in the search bar you will 513 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: find the answer. You can also come to our parent 514 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: company's website, which is how stuff works dot com to 515 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,560 Speaker 1: find all kinds of information about whatever your heart desires. 516 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: And you can do all that and a whole lot 517 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: more at how stuff works dot com or missed in 518 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: history dot com. For more on this and thousands of 519 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: other topics, visit how stuff works dot com.