Speaker 1: Wine down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast,
Speaker 1: So I've got a lot to share about what um
Speaker 1: I went and did and it was very hard but
Speaker 1: good work. And I think and step in the right direction,
Speaker 1: and I'm excited to share. I'm just gonna I'm still
Speaker 1: processing and I think in time, you know, I'll sprinkle it,
Speaker 1: you know, help us all out, give us some give
Speaker 1: us some tips. It's good, it's good, it's good. It's
Speaker 1: just you know, it's it's it's hard work doing doing
Speaker 1: the work as hard work as you as you know
Speaker 1: and as you're going through and um, but I think
Speaker 1: it's good work, and i think it's important work to do. Sure,
Speaker 1: I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. Are you
Speaker 1: giving me jesus? Hi? Hi? How I do feel a
Speaker 1: little bad. We found out that Catherine was getting a
Speaker 1: divorce and that's very sad. And I made a flippant,
Speaker 1: insensitive comment at the end that is this pot is
Speaker 1: at the pot Caffe's fault because the track record for
Speaker 1: relationships isn't great and that was rude, and I apologize
Speaker 1: it was a little rude. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, this is yes,
Speaker 1: I agree, and I'm sorry. It's just that was my
Speaker 1: first reaction was oh, not Catherine too, Like that was
Speaker 1: my honest first reaction when when I was told what
Speaker 1: had happened, I was like, Oh, that's that's so sad.
Speaker 1: And now you know you're well, you know, it's just
Speaker 1: times change. Mm hmm. I think I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I think people like would say that though, like
Speaker 1: but someone that I wouldn't like, I know, I know
Speaker 1: what you were trying to say, something like I totally
Speaker 1: know there was it was a funny ha ha that
Speaker 1: was the point. Yeah, but I think people actually would
Speaker 1: say that, Yeah, that's the sad part. Yeah, Like you know,
Speaker 1: like people would say in comments like oh she drives
Speaker 1: every man to cheat or or um, you know, of
Speaker 1: course her husband believe she was having sex with him,
Speaker 1: or you know what I mean, or like people like
Speaker 1: it's like they say things and then they're like too,
Speaker 1: and it's just that's what's like hurtful because it's like
Speaker 1: when you don't really know, but what you were saying
Speaker 1: was just more of like a yeah, but maybe that
Speaker 1: triggered a little bit of like people may really say that.
Speaker 1: The trolls could say that, you know, Jane has putting
Speaker 1: ideas and her friends that she got out and they
Speaker 1: got to get out because there is a stat to that.
Speaker 1: By the way, you're much likely to much more likely
Speaker 1: to get divorced if your friend gets a divorce. Yes,
Speaker 1: it jumps up, jumps up. Yeah, well that's not what
Speaker 1: I was saying, but there is something to that. Look,
Speaker 1: I will say this if anyone and Cat has been there,
Speaker 1: like she saw me the last year, she saw me
Speaker 1: the first month. If I was someone that saw that,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, I ain't getting divorced. I don't want
Speaker 1: to go through that. That that does not look fun,
Speaker 1: you know. And if anything, I almost think the reverse,
Speaker 1: because I'm like and then going into the dating and
Speaker 1: doing all that work. It's like to me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't I would if I would if I was
Speaker 1: like watching myself like I'm staying in my marriage, you know.
Speaker 1: And again, which is why I said, like I would have,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, all that other stuff is just like
Speaker 1: it's work regardless, right, And but um, you know that
Speaker 1: that is interesting. I've never haven't heard that stuff. But well,
Speaker 1: I think the reason it happens is because and I'm
Speaker 1: not saying this for you, too at all. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying in general, I think there's a perception of when
Speaker 1: your friend a bunch of friends in the marriage and
Speaker 1: one of them gets out of their marriage, they see
Speaker 1: they only see that upside. They see like, look at her,
Speaker 1: she's going out with the friend. You have so much fun.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that guy she did it is so hot.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, look at her, she's just going around
Speaker 1: and having a blast. She's because the graph is always greener.
Speaker 1: What divorced person are you seeing that done that? Definitely?
Speaker 1: I would have no. No, And that's not been me
Speaker 1: the last year either, Like, yes, I've I've gone on
Speaker 1: some dates and yes, I you know that has me hives,
Speaker 1: But like I there's no part that was like I
Speaker 1: am going out with my girls. You know what my
Speaker 1: girls are doing, They're taking their kids to dance, and
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm I'm texting and going can you guys
Speaker 1: come over? Like and they're like no, I got to
Speaker 1: run him to there and heard there and it's like,
Speaker 1: m which is you know, the unfortunate part of why
Speaker 1: I think I jumped into things is because I wanted,
Speaker 1: like that, that thing to help fill that void. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean there's there's the least this this
Speaker 1: hot girl sum rain, hot girl summer like it's and
Speaker 1: it wasn't hot girl summer last year either. It was
Speaker 1: more like crying and like, you know, being alone and
Speaker 1: like it's not going Like we went to Miami once
Speaker 1: and it was my divorce party, Like and I didn't
Speaker 1: go to Miami from a divorce. Um, that's just not
Speaker 1: my personality though, so at all. Yeah, I mean I'm
Speaker 1: not excited to date. I'm not. I don't like to
Speaker 1: go out, you know, like that would that part of it,
Speaker 1: But isn't there isn't there is always green or element,
Speaker 1: not just necessarily and divorcing, but justn't like single people
Speaker 1: they just want to get married and they just want
Speaker 1: to find somebody. But marry people are kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: that must be so nice to have that freedom and
Speaker 1: do whatever you want. I think there is some of
Speaker 1: that I agree with that. I would agree with that
Speaker 1: for sure. I would agree with that in a in
Speaker 1: a sense because I mean if people liked to go
Speaker 1: out and saw you going out, that would be starting
Speaker 1: it fun, you know, yeah, and look I'm watching you.
Speaker 1: No offense not appealing to anyone but listen, that was hard.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't want to get divorced. That's the thing,
Speaker 1: Like I was. I didn't. I didn't want to get divorced.
Speaker 1: I was a mess. Like no part of me ever
Speaker 1: wanted to divorce that man. Ever, Like I had no choice.
Speaker 1: Our circumstances are just so different. It's just so different.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was so much wrong there. We've been
Speaker 1: having issues for years, just kind of swept him under
Speaker 1: the rug and just decided to live, you know, just
Speaker 1: going just very very very different circumstances, like nothing even similar.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that you could even I do
Speaker 1: get the other, you know, the other side. But I
Speaker 1: think it's like it's hard being single, it's hard being
Speaker 1: in a relationship, it's hard being married, it's hard being
Speaker 1: you know, doing doing the work. It's like it's all
Speaker 1: just kind of hard. But at the same time, like
Speaker 1: I mean, now I see the greener side, Like now
Speaker 1: I'm so thankful to be where I'm at and I'm
Speaker 1: and I'm thankful to be single, and I'm thankful to
Speaker 1: be you know, in a in a good spot. And
Speaker 1: I think you'll you're already seeing that, which is amazing,
Speaker 1: Like it's interesting though, like because my my unhealthyness love
Speaker 1: last year of like I just like I don't want
Speaker 1: to be alone, like because I thought a man could
Speaker 1: feel that void, right, and it's like that's not even
Speaker 1: on yours. So it's like it's interesting, like how you know,
Speaker 1: how we how different we think too. I'm I like
Speaker 1: to be alone. I'm a loner and that's the whole
Speaker 1: thing with you. I'm like, you get to be alone.
Speaker 1: I know you were, And maybe there was an aspect
Speaker 1: of that sure that I looked at her and I'm like, man,
Speaker 1: she doesn't see and value that, whereas I felt like
Speaker 1: I would, you know, so maybe there is a part
Speaker 1: of that that was like man, like she gets to
Speaker 1: be on her own and work on things and do this.
Speaker 1: And that was Yes, that was very much appealing to
Speaker 1: me in the sense of like I want to have
Speaker 1: that time. I want to have that time to work
Speaker 1: on myself and be happy and you know, so I
Speaker 1: think in a good way. Yes, maybe it definitely did
Speaker 1: help watching well. I will say it took me a
Speaker 1: year to get to where you are, like that that
Speaker 1: part like now I'm like, oh, I'm so excited like
Speaker 1: to like because I think healthy attracts healthy, and I
Speaker 1: think I was so unhealthy in certain areas that I'm
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to like really like you know, and
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that I did this past weekend
Speaker 1: is the start of that, and and and and not
Speaker 1: putting an emphasis on like my worth is not dependent
Speaker 1: on a relationship, and I think I've always put it
Speaker 1: on that because of all my daddy stuff. But then
Speaker 1: that's basically I'm going to talk more about it, but
Speaker 1: I'm also going to get the person that runs the
Speaker 1: place on here and so um, that's going to be
Speaker 1: a that's when I'll dive deeper into that work because
Speaker 1: it's just, um, realizing you're worth might take a little while,
Speaker 1: but when you do, when you dig deep, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a it's a good place to be. So um.
Speaker 1: But before uh, we do that, we're gonna have Mary
Speaker 1: Ellen on because we are going to talk about boundaries.
Speaker 1: So let's take a break and get around Hi mary Ellen.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna say a girl for like
Speaker 1: one Okay, can I can I finger on you? Because
Speaker 1: you're so cute? Thank you, You're so pretty, You're like,
Speaker 1: I love your office, You're adorable. Um, thank you. This
Speaker 1: is um. You know the sticky wallpaper that I got
Speaker 1: for like a dollar at Target. I'm I love it. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm Jemna. This is Catherine. Okay, you can you can.
Speaker 1: You can totally fan girl if you want. Let's do this, Okay.
Speaker 1: So it's really funny that I'm about to talk about
Speaker 1: boundaries because I'm going to cross one right now, and
Speaker 1: I just have to ask you what it's like kissing
Speaker 1: Stephen Coletti. That's a good question coming from the boundary
Speaker 1: queen herself. Um, she's asking such a personal question. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, how was it kissing Stephen? I love Stephen Coletti?
Speaker 1: I really do. And I hope he doesn't hear this.
Speaker 1: He I've had better, but I I love Stephen, and
Speaker 1: I think you know, we we had like our chemistry,
Speaker 1: wasn't UM like that, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1: we we had more of like a brother sister chemistry.
Speaker 1: So I think that also UM impacted those scenes because
Speaker 1: I mean literally would be like making out and then
Speaker 1: we'd be like, so are we gonna have Caesar salad?
Speaker 1: And then like what else do you think they're gonna
Speaker 1: have at lunch today? And like we just we didn't
Speaker 1: have like I don't think we were necessarily like because
Speaker 1: he was younger. I was, like I was in a relationship,
Speaker 1: and I mean, not that that matters. Well, no, it
Speaker 1: does matter, but I'm saying like what I meant for
Speaker 1: acting and like, you know, like you can still have
Speaker 1: chemistry with someone. Um, but yeah, I mean he's you know,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah Alex. Alex enjoyed it, Janna, you know
Speaker 1: I was. I was too into you know. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was just it was just the job. I wasn't like
Speaker 1: paying attention to, like, oh, this kiss is amazing. Trying
Speaker 1: to think who the best kisser was though that I've
Speaker 1: ever like on screen kiss must be so awkward. Um,
Speaker 1: it is. It is very awkward the first time, like
Speaker 1: when you are about to um, Like the first kiss
Speaker 1: is always the most awkward kiss because you're like like
Speaker 1: I'm you know, most of the time I've been in
Speaker 1: a relationship when I've filmed some and so it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: like this just feels weird too, but also like it's
Speaker 1: just that first kiss. It's like you're gonna have butterflies regardless, Right,
Speaker 1: that's funny. I didn't think about that. If you have
Speaker 1: butterflies before kissing on screen. Well, I mean I because
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not just like it's like but then afterwards,
Speaker 1: like then then this just goes away. So who was
Speaker 1: the best I'm trying to remember. I can't. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't like had like a bad, bad one, but
Speaker 1: the best I don't know. I mean they've all been
Speaker 1: like like the whole Marky kisses, you know, So it's
Speaker 1: not like I don't want to say anyways, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: put a boundary up and hold that one for myself
Speaker 1: for you, but y'all can go fire off in the
Speaker 1: comments and take a guess because it's ye's sweet and
Speaker 1: that's weird. Um but anyhow, um okay, So I'm very
Speaker 1: excited to have you. So you're a One Tree Hiller?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, well I'm thirty two, so I
Speaker 1: was like write the age range as like it was
Speaker 1: coming out. So yeah, I mean, who isn't a One
Speaker 1: Tree Hiller? Let's be honest, right, Um? So, but you contacted?
Speaker 1: So you do you listen to the podcast? I do?
Speaker 1: I do. It's so funny because I talked about boundaries
Speaker 1: all the time. People make fun of me for talking
Speaker 1: about boundaries all the time. I am a therapist, so
Speaker 1: it's appropriate in a lot of ways, but also in
Speaker 1: my personal life, like my dad, who's not a therapist.
Speaker 1: He's in his seventies. He's like, since when did this
Speaker 1: word boundaries become so popular? Like I never heard that
Speaker 1: were like before you um So yeah. I was walking
Speaker 1: my dog and listening to um your podcast and you
Speaker 1: were talking about how you needed someone to talk about
Speaker 1: boundaries and I was like, I can do that. You're like,
Speaker 1: pick me, I can do this. So there was something
Speaker 1: that you said in your I believe it was your
Speaker 1: email to Catherine, because you email Catherine and you said
Speaker 1: something like you don't even is it that you don't
Speaker 1: like to put the word boundaries or there's something that
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is an interesting thought. So
Speaker 1: recently I have been seeing boundaries everywhere and it's kind
Speaker 1: of similar to you know, gas lighting is gaslighting? Yeah,
Speaker 1: all of these things that are being talked about everywhere.
Speaker 1: And I had a client coming the other day that
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, so I told them to f off
Speaker 1: because I was setting a boundary and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: Setting a boundary is not an excuse to like, you know,
Speaker 1: be mean to people. And I've been hearing it more
Speaker 1: in that way of like, oh, well, I can set
Speaker 1: a boundary and just shook these people out of my
Speaker 1: life and maybe that's your boundary. But boundaries are so
Speaker 1: much more nuanced than that, and I worry that people
Speaker 1: are getting this message of like you're either in my
Speaker 1: life or you're out of my life, and that's what
Speaker 1: a boundary is. And it's like no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: like any healthy relationship is going to have boundaries to
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, it does, it does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's almost like it's almost like and this is another
Speaker 1: word like stonewalling. So it's like I think that the
Speaker 1: keywords in narcissist stone walling, gas lighting, uh, boundaries. And
Speaker 1: having said all that, though, it is very interesting to
Speaker 1: look at all of those things and go oh wow,
Speaker 1: like that helps explain certain things are like oh, like
Speaker 1: I think I've done one or so of those, like
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure like I didn't know that I'm
Speaker 1: saying I'm sorry you feel that way is a gaslighting comment,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like kind of recognizing going oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: well how do I change that? Or um, but I
Speaker 1: think when it comes to two boundaries with that, it
Speaker 1: almost thinks like just to shut someone out seems like
Speaker 1: a very stonewalling I don't know, but again I'm trying
Speaker 1: to learn. Also love bombing. It's another one that is
Speaker 1: one been used, um and so yeah, but I'm curious, like,
Speaker 1: is that is that a part of that? Like would
Speaker 1: that go into the stonewalling chapter? Maybe? You know, because
Speaker 1: I'm all about boundaries. I love setting boundaries. I love
Speaker 1: talking about them, but I do get worried that we're
Speaker 1: like missing the point, you know, and sometimes we're going
Speaker 1: to say goodbye. I don't need you in my life anymore. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: But most of the time when we're setting boundaries, it's
Speaker 1: to actually keep people in our lives in a healthy
Speaker 1: way and a happy way, so that we don't become
Speaker 1: resentful of them, so that we don't you know, hate
Speaker 1: them in ten years. That kind of thing I love.
Speaker 1: I love that we just said boundaries are actually to
Speaker 1: keep people in your life, not to not have them
Speaker 1: in your life. Right, And of course there's certain people
Speaker 1: that maybe we just you know, we shouldn't they shouldn't
Speaker 1: be in our lives or we shouldn't be in their lives,
Speaker 1: but boundaries, Like any healthy relationship, you want boundaries that
Speaker 1: can make the relationship healthier to know, kind of like
Speaker 1: where your role ends and my role begins. And that's
Speaker 1: really what boundaries are supposed to be, right Like I
Speaker 1: know what my side of the street is, and I
Speaker 1: know what your side of the street is, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to make sure over here is clean, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to make sure I don't go into your side
Speaker 1: of the street when I'm not supposed to. So what
Speaker 1: is what's what's healthy boundaries in a relationship that you
Speaker 1: think or is it something that where it's it's only
Speaker 1: based upon um what's right? Like what's in their relationship?
Speaker 1: I guess I think, I mean, I like, it's obviously
Speaker 1: very dependent on the relationship and the type of relationship,
Speaker 1: but I think healthy boundaries are when neither person in
Speaker 1: the relationship, whether it's a friendship or a family member
Speaker 1: or a romantic relationship, when neither person is making decisions
Speaker 1: out of guilt, out of fear of the other person
Speaker 1: leaving them, or fear of the other person being mad
Speaker 1: or being rejected, like so often we're making decisions based
Speaker 1: out of those feelings versus based out of what's best
Speaker 1: for me, what's best for the relationship, what's best for
Speaker 1: this person, how do you stick to because that's that's
Speaker 1: my that's my biggest thing. So I have like there's
Speaker 1: you know, certain boundaries that I have let people, and
Speaker 1: I will say, um, I've also stepped over certain boundaries
Speaker 1: too in my past relationships, and um, so I'll let's
Speaker 1: start with let's start with that. So, if if I
Speaker 1: was to cross the boundary, is it the person and
Speaker 1: vice versa? Is it the person to set the What
Speaker 1: happens when you cross the boundary? Is that? Like what
Speaker 1: do you do from from? From then? Like let's say
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, no more slamming doors. I slammed a door.
Speaker 1: You don't even make if the boundaries do not slam
Speaker 1: the door in the house and I in the door.
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. People don't change like that. So
Speaker 1: I think if we're working with people, if I'm trying
Speaker 1: to set a boundary with you and you forget or
Speaker 1: you don't do it, but you have the good intentions
Speaker 1: and you want to have a productive conversation about it,
Speaker 1: and you apologize and say, Okay, I understand why this
Speaker 1: is crossing your boundary. That's a whole different story versus
Speaker 1: I'm just slamming the door and like not taking into
Speaker 1: consideration what you want, you know, because I think I
Speaker 1: think the other problem is a lot of the time
Speaker 1: when people are crossing our boundaries, they don't even know.
Speaker 1: Like that's a very good example of Okay, this person
Speaker 1: knows that you don't like slamming doors. Like for me,
Speaker 1: if I'm in a relationship, like name calling is now okay,
Speaker 1: Like that's a huge boundary of mine that I sat
Speaker 1: right from the beginning. But I've been in relationships where
Speaker 1: you know, in the heat of the moment, there's been
Speaker 1: name calling, but then there's been the oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. That's my fault. I take responsibility for this.
Speaker 1: I know I crossed the boundary. I'm going to do
Speaker 1: this to make sure I don't cross that boundary again.
Speaker 1: I respect that boundary. Uh um. And I think that
Speaker 1: like those conversations are so different than the why are
Speaker 1: you mad at I slammed the door? Sure? Yeah. Um.
Speaker 1: So for example, like let's say one of my boundaries is, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I if if you lie to me, that's
Speaker 1: that's a huge boundary for me lying, Yeah, what happens
Speaker 1: then if that person lies, what am I supposed to do? Like,
Speaker 1: because in my mind, I'm like, I know now that
Speaker 1: I can't be with anyone that has well, it's just
Speaker 1: so hard this and this is where this is where
Speaker 1: this is where the boundaries get so gray, is because
Speaker 1: I'm like, I get it's very hard to be honest.
Speaker 1: I get that I've I haven't been honest at times.
Speaker 1: So but now knowing my season of healing and growth
Speaker 1: and stuff, when I say, you know, if you were
Speaker 1: to lie about this this subject, this would be catastrophic
Speaker 1: in the relationship, Like if you were to lie about
Speaker 1: cheating on your wife or whatever, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 1: let's just say that example, like and you I find
Speaker 1: out then, like when I find out, it's like, but
Speaker 1: that's such a bound like the lie instead of really
Speaker 1: the act, it's like the lie. So what do you
Speaker 1: do with that? Because I feel like lying is such
Speaker 1: a big boundary. Lying is huge. So I think that
Speaker 1: what you do with that says more about you than
Speaker 1: the other person. Okay, please talk to me more about that,
Speaker 1: because I talk to me about about that. And yeah,
Speaker 1: so this is a great example So if I say, lying,
Speaker 1: is you a huge boundary? You know? First date, this
Speaker 1: is my boundary. Do you have anything to tell me? Okay,
Speaker 1: fifth date, do you have anything to tell me? Do
Speaker 1: you have anything to tell me? And then this person
Speaker 1: comes back to me and I find out in kind
Speaker 1: of a not so great way and they don't They're
Speaker 1: not honest with me. You know, it would be one thing.
Speaker 1: I think if someone comes to you and it's like
Speaker 1: I wasn't honest with you honestly, is hard. We were
Speaker 1: just getting to know each other. Now that we know
Speaker 1: each other well, right, like, I think that can be
Speaker 1: something worked with. But if I find out in another
Speaker 1: way and I'm upsetting, you cross my boundary and then
Speaker 1: I decide to forgive it. Forgive is the wrong word
Speaker 1: because forgiveness is good. I decide to move past it,
Speaker 1: and you know, violate that boundary. Why am I doing that?
Speaker 1: Am I doing that because I trust you and I
Speaker 1: believe that people make mistakes and you made a mistake.
Speaker 1: Or Am I doing it because I'm getting other needs
Speaker 1: met from you and I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: give up those other needs I'm getting met from by you.
Speaker 1: So I'm just going to ignore this huge, big need
Speaker 1: because I'm getting these other little needs that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: am I doing it because I don't want to feel
Speaker 1: rejected or insecure or alone or any of those feelings.
Speaker 1: I think that figuring out why you're doing that is
Speaker 1: the huge piece of the puzzle. Mm hmm. That's good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really good. Yeah, it's a very good point. And
Speaker 1: also realizing that that's probably that's a that's that kind
Speaker 1: of boundary is something that shouldn't be crossed essentially too well,
Speaker 1: and realizing like I think values are a good kind
Speaker 1: of like baseline to decide our boundaries. Right, So you
Speaker 1: have a big value of honesty. I mean I do too.
Speaker 1: I'm guessing you do too, Catherine. I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people do. But I will say like I do,
Speaker 1: like I'm a big like you know, twenty four hour grace.
Speaker 1: You know, Okay, I I wasn't honest that I'd like
Speaker 1: to correct that, Like I'm all about a correction of
Speaker 1: a lie. But that's so different because that's someone coming
Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I need to be honest. That's such
Speaker 1: a different way about things than finding out about lacks.
Speaker 1: It's just too completely different ways to lie in my opinion,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I don't know it, just
Speaker 1: absolutely agree. And I think it also is like helping
Speaker 1: the other person to under and it's not other people's
Speaker 1: responsibilities to understand all of our inner workings, but helping
Speaker 1: the other person to understand this is why this is
Speaker 1: a boundary for me. This is why this is a
Speaker 1: trigger for me. And if I'm overreacting, like okay, let
Speaker 1: me know, also recognize that this is what it feels
Speaker 1: like to me. So for me, it's not an overreaction
Speaker 1: for me. This is you know, having that person understand
Speaker 1: where that's coming from, and maybe they just won't care
Speaker 1: and they'll be kind of a jerk about it, or
Speaker 1: maybe that will like add some more to the story,
Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, I think yeah,
Speaker 1: I think right, yes, So writing down like so for
Speaker 1: me it would be like, okay, these are things that
Speaker 1: like cheating, no go like in the relationship, lying about
Speaker 1: you know some that stuff that like that would be
Speaker 1: like I feel like all that stuff would like and
Speaker 1: has triggered me in my past because of past experiences.
Speaker 1: Granted worked through them, but still I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: I think too again, is how people handle it that
Speaker 1: is also so triggering for you. It's not about someone
Speaker 1: lying to you. I mean it is, but it's not
Speaker 1: just about them lying to you. It's how they handle it.
Speaker 1: It's how they speak to you, It's how it's you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's it's so encompassed and so
Speaker 1: many other things you're finding out about someone lying them
Speaker 1: not even being honest when you bring the lie, it's
Speaker 1: just digging a hole. That's so many triggers. It's not
Speaker 1: just a simple lie. Well, and we also work based
Speaker 1: on muscle memory. So if someone is lying about lying,
Speaker 1: you have I mean, I know that's from listening to
Speaker 1: your podcast. You have been in a position before where
Speaker 1: people have lied to you about lying, and so like
Speaker 1: our brains and our bodies have muscle memories. So when
Speaker 1: someone is lying to you about lying again, and then
Speaker 1: you're triggered, you're going to go back to that place
Speaker 1: that you're so comfortable in of guilt and fear and
Speaker 1: insecurity and detective and like all of it. Like yeah,
Speaker 1: just like all the fear, all the like question. And
Speaker 1: that's I'm like, I don't want to play I'm not
Speaker 1: playing detective, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, and
Speaker 1: then you start helping out of your fear. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: is that how you to make decisions? Like? Do you
Speaker 1: want to be making fear based decisions? And I feel
Speaker 1: like that's how most people make their boundaries or lack
Speaker 1: there up right. I don't want this person to be
Speaker 1: mad at me. Oh, I don't want to, you know,
Speaker 1: create this situation. So I'm not going to say this boundary,
Speaker 1: But that's not you know what's underneath that fear is
Speaker 1: underneath that fear. Okay, I'm having this fear because I'm
Speaker 1: in this situation where someone's lying to me about lying
Speaker 1: and this is this is kind of my muscle memory reaction,
Speaker 1: And how do I actually want to make this decision?
Speaker 1: Does that make any sense? It doesn't. Yeah, it absolutely does,
Speaker 1: because I think if I was to be faced in
Speaker 1: that kind of next situation, I think I would if
Speaker 1: that was to happen again, I'd be like, Nope, I
Speaker 1: can't because I know my nervous system remembers all the
Speaker 1: trauma from previous relationships that I would be like, I
Speaker 1: don't like the version of who that person who I become.
Speaker 1: And also I know for myself, I actually do deserve
Speaker 1: better than that you know now, So it's like I
Speaker 1: think that's like, but sticking to that boundary has always
Speaker 1: been such a hard thing because of the conditions and
Speaker 1: what I have been conditioned to believe and what I've
Speaker 1: believed in myself. Right, so it's like, you know, that's
Speaker 1: that's where it becomes that like battle with like this
Speaker 1: person going, you know, my one side going like you know,
Speaker 1: you deserve so much about it, don't stay, don't stay.
Speaker 1: And then everyone's like, well, you do deserve it, you know,
Speaker 1: like you're you're not working, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's like this like nick nick mip, yeah,
Speaker 1: well and you know so I do E M D
Speaker 1: R two. I love that you promote that, by the way,
Speaker 1: But you know that like trauma gets stuck, It gets
Speaker 1: stuck in our brain, and so those places where it's
Speaker 1: still stuck, we kind of like revert right back to
Speaker 1: that um and then and then we become exactly that
Speaker 1: person that we don't want to be. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think it's tough too, because if we're interacting with
Speaker 1: people who respect that, you know, maybe it won't be
Speaker 1: as nice of a conversation as like, oh I respect
Speaker 1: that boundary. It won't be as to use that, but
Speaker 1: it can be Okay, I hear where you're like, I
Speaker 1: see why this is triggering you, And I didn't mean
Speaker 1: it that way, but like, let's kind of rewind and
Speaker 1: figure out how we can do this together, right because
Speaker 1: that person or whoever you know we're in relationships with
Speaker 1: have their own boundaries too, and we have to make
Speaker 1: sure we're also not crossing those boundaries, which I'm sure
Speaker 1: we accidentally do sometimes, and so figuring out almost like
Speaker 1: new boundaries together also, you know, um new boundaries of
Speaker 1: like how do you stick to it? Though? Like when
Speaker 1: you know, how do you can just hold my hand
Speaker 1: to the fire, I will stick to my boundary? How
Speaker 1: do you just like, how do you just do that?
Speaker 1: You just have to do it so you recognize when
Speaker 1: you're making like fear guilt based decisions, and if you're
Speaker 1: making a fear guilt based decision, you call Catherine and say,
Speaker 1: I'm about to make a bad decision, right like that,
Speaker 1: Guys have to show my friends with the boundaries. I
Speaker 1: mean usually I would like not tell them anything because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want them to like hate the person I
Speaker 1: find out later, It's fine, you know, if they have
Speaker 1: a reason to hate the person, then be a good sign.
Speaker 1: That might be is hard, but the thing is the
Speaker 1: person that we need to set boundaries with. Our people
Speaker 1: are acting in the only way they know how. They're
Speaker 1: not I'm not I don't want to say they're not
Speaker 1: doing anything wrong because like I think lying is wrong
Speaker 1: or you know, some some things are wrong, but like,
Speaker 1: they're not purposely doing anything. This is how they function. Like,
Speaker 1: this is how they function. And I'm a therapist. I
Speaker 1: believe people can change, but people have to want to
Speaker 1: change and be willing to have those conversations. So if
Speaker 1: you're trying to set a boundary with someone and they're
Speaker 1: still lying to you or they're trying to blame you
Speaker 1: or getting defensive or whatever, like that is the way
Speaker 1: they know how to act. And so if this is
Speaker 1: the only way they know how to act, they're going
Speaker 1: to keep acting that way. And by me continuing to
Speaker 1: do what I'm doing, that's continuing to reinforce them acting
Speaker 1: this way. So like I am actually encouraging them to
Speaker 1: act this way by not studying a boundary, by not
Speaker 1: sticking to my boundary. Oh that's that's a really, really
Speaker 1: good that's so true. Are you looking at that well,
Speaker 1: because I'm just thinking through like you can't really like
Speaker 1: they that's how they act, like she said, like that's
Speaker 1: how they know to react and act. So like what's
Speaker 1: going to change that? And then if you're essentially enabling
Speaker 1: them to act that way because you allow it, like
Speaker 1: how do you change that cycle? Right? And it's kind
Speaker 1: of like yeah, I mean my ex would say, like
Speaker 1: I knew I could still cheat because you know you
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave. I knew you would never leave. What stopping
Speaker 1: it was like even though I was always like, give
Speaker 1: you do it one more time, I'm not a here,
Speaker 1: But of course it's like like you said, it's like
Speaker 1: that's the what's preventing you from sticking to that? Oh?
Speaker 1: It was all like my lack of self worth and
Speaker 1: believing that I deserved it or that it was my
Speaker 1: fault or um, and that I just you know, they've
Speaker 1: done so much work around that now like now and
Speaker 1: now I know it now, it's just sticking to it.
Speaker 1: I think, like, um, one thing that might be I
Speaker 1: was about to say fun, but probably not fun, but
Speaker 1: like ask yourself, like these things that you now believe
Speaker 1: about yourself or that you're starting to believe and want
Speaker 1: to believe even more. Would a person like take yourself
Speaker 1: out of it? What a person who believes I deserve this,
Speaker 1: I want this, you know this that and the other
Speaker 1: what would they do? You know, what would that person do?
Speaker 1: Because I'm like fifty percent there, but I'm not like
Speaker 1: a hundred percent there yet, and so what would the
Speaker 1: hundred percent person do? And kind of do something, you know,
Speaker 1: based out of that. And the other thing is setting
Speaker 1: boundaries are way more uncomfortable for us than it is
Speaker 1: for the other person, way more uncomfortable. Like it's that
Speaker 1: other person who's lying and you know, acting the way
Speaker 1: they know how to act. They're not uncomfortable. They're acting
Speaker 1: how they've always acted, and us stepping out of our
Speaker 1: comfort zone and like increasing that, increasing that anxiety and saying,
Speaker 1: here's my boundary or this is what I'm doing. Like
Speaker 1: that's so uncomfortable, And so that may be a reason
Speaker 1: you're not sticking to them. Also is because it's just weird.
Speaker 1: You're not used to it. Like if you have never
Speaker 1: stuck to the the boundaries, you don't know what that's like.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times in in my
Speaker 1: previous um like situations where it's it's a lot of
Speaker 1: like um shift like shifting blame. So it's like you
Speaker 1: start to think like, oh, well, it's my fault that
Speaker 1: they went and did that, or it's my fault that
Speaker 1: because of my you know, and so that then you
Speaker 1: like you take on what there, you take on that stuff.
Speaker 1: And that's that's also knowing now that that's not true.
Speaker 1: But I think that happens a lot as well. Like
Speaker 1: women take on what they say, well, you kicked me
Speaker 1: out of the house and so or well you know,
Speaker 1: you were yelling, or you were needy, or you were this,
Speaker 1: or you were that, and and they believe what they're
Speaker 1: being told. Yeah, and it's like, well, yeah, I was,
Speaker 1: I was being a little bit of a bit, sure
Speaker 1: I was, you know. So then they take on the
Speaker 1: blame for the person's actions. I think one thing that
Speaker 1: helps with that because for me, like if I'm in
Speaker 1: a relationship and they come and blame me and they're like,
Speaker 1: well you were being kind of a bit, you were
Speaker 1: being kind of needy. Uh, and someone tells me like,
Speaker 1: you're not a bit, You're not needy, I wouldn't believe them.
Speaker 1: So like what helps me in those moments. It is like, Okay,
Speaker 1: even if I was being a little needy, let's say
Speaker 1: I was being a little needy, Okay, they still shouldn't
Speaker 1: do that, Like, okay, that's still not okay, and then
Speaker 1: hopefully work up to the point of I'm not a bit,
Speaker 1: I'm not needy, I'm awesome, I'm deserving, right, But we
Speaker 1: can't go from zero to a hundred. We have to
Speaker 1: kind of start small. And so if you're in a
Speaker 1: place where like logically you know you're deserving, but emotionally
Speaker 1: you don't feel it yet, maybe say to yourself, Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't feel deserving, and maybe I'm not deserving a
Speaker 1: better or maybe I don't feel whatever yet, and I'm
Speaker 1: working towards that, and what they're doing is still not okay.
Speaker 1: It it doesn't make it okay. Oh like I slammed
Speaker 1: the door, I was the one that did something wrong. Okay,
Speaker 1: we can apologize for that because we're humans and not
Speaker 1: do it again. And that doesn't make it okay for
Speaker 1: them to lie. And I feel like it's become this
Speaker 1: like back and forth of who to blame, like you're
Speaker 1: saying and it's like, no, I don't care if you
Speaker 1: were being a bit, they shouldn't do that. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's it's interesting. Yeah, it is, it's very interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think that like we should also and I
Speaker 1: said it a little bit, but with boundaries, like also
Speaker 1: look at like we we have functions of our behaviors.
Speaker 1: So there's a reason we do things. There's a reason
Speaker 1: you're not sticking to your boundaries. Is that reason? You know,
Speaker 1: it's muscle memory, it's comfort. Is that reason because you
Speaker 1: know they're meeting other needs for you that like you
Speaker 1: don't want to let go of. I think figuring out
Speaker 1: those reasons will also help you stick to those boundaries
Speaker 1: because then you'll know kind of the missing piece that Okay,
Speaker 1: they're meeting this need for me, but let me go
Speaker 1: find that need elsewhere so I can keep these boundaries
Speaker 1: up here. Yeah, I mean, and and I've realized like
Speaker 1: through through work and stuff, it's like that that is
Speaker 1: it was that need was like being wanted and loved.
Speaker 1: You know, it was loved enough you know to like
Speaker 1: because I put worth and that you know in relationships
Speaker 1: and like that that defines because of you know, won't
Speaker 1: go into the child and stuff now, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: you know, it makes so much sense. It's a definitely
Speaker 1: like a lightbulb kind of moment. But I think you're right, Like,
Speaker 1: once you are in that healthy spot and you do
Speaker 1: believe that, like your your boundaries will be UM will
Speaker 1: be better. And I think even for you Cat like
Speaker 1: you're you, you realize that too. Like you, you're so
Speaker 1: aware of of what you need. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: that's a a great place to be in two. Yes,
Speaker 1: I feel like I am, but I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of needs out there that I haven't tapped into
Speaker 1: that I have to, like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: I can be very aware, but at the same time,
Speaker 1: like there's a lot of work I need to do
Speaker 1: to figure out how to be a healthier version of myself.
Speaker 1: But I think we all have work too, And that's
Speaker 1: the thing, Like I I don't. I don't think you
Speaker 1: stop healing and growing. I think you continue to do
Speaker 1: that so um and that is you know, boundaries is
Speaker 1: not just relation and ship, you know, I think the
Speaker 1: boundaries and friends and I think we've you know, set
Speaker 1: certain boundaries of people in our life too. So I
Speaker 1: don't And it's okay if you don't want them in
Speaker 1: your life anymore. I think there's a healthy way right
Speaker 1: to be like this is just isn't healthy or springing
Speaker 1: up stuff and um, I don't like that's one sided
Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I think that's going to happen
Speaker 1: with lots of you know, there are times where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this relationship is not serving me, it's not healthy. There's
Speaker 1: way too many unhealthy things unhealthy So you know, we're
Speaker 1: just gonna have to part our ways, which is totally
Speaker 1: it's normal. Um, but you mentioned something interesting, Janna. You
Speaker 1: mentioned that, like you know that your need is for love,
Speaker 1: and so if you have a need of respect, but
Speaker 1: you're like craving the love, like that is going to
Speaker 1: trump the respect every single time if that's what you're craving,
Speaker 1: because that's also a human need, like we all need that, um,
Speaker 1: And so like, is there a way to and not
Speaker 1: to put you on the spot, you don't have to
Speaker 1: answer this, but is there a way to get that
Speaker 1: need for respect up there at that same level as
Speaker 1: the need for like love and validation? Well, that's to
Speaker 1: love myself. When I love myself, like loving myself gets
Speaker 1: me the respect because I will adds to the same respect.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like how I've realized it. That makes sense.
Speaker 1: It's hard to do though, Yeah, especially like when you've
Speaker 1: been conditioned like a certain way. Like I'm sure you
Speaker 1: know people if you've been a condition to a certain
Speaker 1: way to not be if you're not affectionate, like and
Speaker 1: now you're like, that's your conde's your conditioning. It's like
Speaker 1: I've always been conditioned to be affectionate and love and
Speaker 1: so weird to be the opposite. Yeah, I mean since
Speaker 1: I was in a high school, Like when Matthew broke
Speaker 1: up with me my you know, my high school sweetheart,
Speaker 1: I was like devastating, you know, because then like but
Speaker 1: I put so much because that was like my first
Speaker 1: boyfriend after my parents divorce, and like you know, and
Speaker 1: it's like again someone like so it's like that has
Speaker 1: just been so routined and I don't know, like you know,
Speaker 1: you're growing up in an not very physical household, it's
Speaker 1: like you you get routined into these um places where
Speaker 1: that's just what you want and crave or not wanting,
Speaker 1: you know. Um. So I think it's interesting too, because
Speaker 1: like I think what we crave and what we need
Speaker 1: are two different things. I mean, sometimes I think they
Speaker 1: can overlap, but sometimes I think they're different. And like
Speaker 1: Catherine was saying, like I feel like our needs, they're
Speaker 1: changing all the time, and I don't know all my needs.
Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm like, Okay, I feel like I need
Speaker 1: to set a boundary. I feel like something's not feeling right,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what that is. And so that's
Speaker 1: another thing with sticking to boundaries, Like maybe they're maybe
Speaker 1: we need to like tweak them for you, like not
Speaker 1: to have people you know lie to you and for
Speaker 1: you to accept that, But like what is that maybe
Speaker 1: for you? You're just like nope, I'm done. Like I
Speaker 1: know other people can have conversations about this and get
Speaker 1: past this, but I can't because if I have a
Speaker 1: conversation about it, I'm gonna get sucked back into that
Speaker 1: craving and this is my need over here. So you know,
Speaker 1: maybe like changing that boundary for yourself in a way
Speaker 1: that you will stick to it. Yeah, I think I will.
Speaker 1: I know I have. I know I will now because
Speaker 1: I love myself enough to know that I deserve respect
Speaker 1: and love. There you go, there you go. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: Friends that will beat me if I don't know, but
Speaker 1: they're foundering. No, but I mean at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, like it's like I'm good, like I've got
Speaker 1: like my focus is my like babies, babies and kiddos.
Speaker 1: I don't need love is not going to be. Being
Speaker 1: in a relationship is now is not going to validate
Speaker 1: my worth and I always wanted it to. I've always
Speaker 1: put it will not be the thing to validate my worth.
Speaker 1: And and I I look up to you, cat because
Speaker 1: you don't seeing you strong, It's like that's not it's
Speaker 1: going okay. I I don't need to put that all
Speaker 1: that worth in that basket because that's not what it is.
Speaker 1: You know, I've I don't, I don't, I don't need that.
Speaker 1: I would love it one day, you know. I love
Speaker 1: a relationship, but not the wrong one I've I've been
Speaker 1: in the wrong ones before. I don't. I don't need
Speaker 1: to be and not. I don't want to set healthy
Speaker 1: boundaries too, not to not do that again and again
Speaker 1: it's not fun. I don't want to have to go
Speaker 1: to a place again first one for we just have
Speaker 1: someone coming. I think figuring out our needs like as
Speaker 1: they're ever changing, is important to because like I've dated
Speaker 1: plenty of douche bags, and I'm like, wait, this guy
Speaker 1: who's like not that great is telling me I'm not Like,
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense. Like I almost had like well,
Speaker 1: I had a bunch of maha moments, but like finally
Speaker 1: the aha moment that stuck with me was like I
Speaker 1: was like, wait, I know that. I'm like, you know,
Speaker 1: worth a lot more than like what they're giving me.
Speaker 1: And like this person who's like not very nice, not
Speaker 1: very attractive, not very six you know, all that doesn't
Speaker 1: make a person's worth obviously, obviously, but I was like,
Speaker 1: why am I listening to that person instead of listening
Speaker 1: to all these other people over here and what they're
Speaker 1: telling me. Yeah. Yeah, that's the little light bomb moments,
Speaker 1: like listen to what your friends say, you know, when
Speaker 1: they say you deserve it like you do. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: sure if they're good friends, they're gonna be honest with you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you have a podcast too, right? I do. I
Speaker 1: have a podcast. It's called the okay Ish Podcast and
Speaker 1: what could what do you? What do you? What do
Speaker 1: you talk about? On there? Is? It? Is it okay Ish?
Speaker 1: Like what do you? What do you? Yeah, it's all
Speaker 1: about like mental health in this world today, So I
Speaker 1: talk about things that are so trendy, like you know,
Speaker 1: gas lighting and empowerment and all of that. There's lots
Speaker 1: of you know, being positive is great, but there's lots
Speaker 1: of like toxic positivity. That's where the name okay ish
Speaker 1: came from. Like it's you know, it's not realistic to
Speaker 1: be amazing every single day and that's okay. And being
Speaker 1: able to like manage these things. So it's a lot
Speaker 1: of kind of like translating trendy mental health terms and
Speaker 1: being able to talk about all of that. I love that. UM.
Speaker 1: So our listeners can find you on the okay ish
Speaker 1: podcasts in the where else um On Instagram, I am
Speaker 1: pretty active and it's mary Ellen Dance. Is there anything
Speaker 1: you want to leave us with boundary wise or anything
Speaker 1: else with any of the other hot topic words out there? Um,
Speaker 1: just that sticking to boundaries is going to help your relationship.
Speaker 1: Like whatever next relationship you get into or friendships or
Speaker 1: whatever that are going to be healthy will have good boundaries.
Speaker 1: Like there's no way you can have a healthy relationship
Speaker 1: without some good boundaries, and so thinking of it in
Speaker 1: a good way and no, this is going to strengthen
Speaker 1: us if we have the boundaries like that. There's comfort
Speaker 1: in that. There's a lot of comfort in that. I
Speaker 1: love them. Well, thank you, Mary Ellen. I appreciate you
Speaker 1: coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Of course,
Speaker 1: all right, I have a question for you. Okay, I know,
Speaker 1: I know we're very different. Do you have you ever
Speaker 1: gone to like the I'm going to be alone forever? No? No,
Speaker 1: I mean I've thought about it like in this sense
Speaker 1: that I could, I could do it and I could
Speaker 1: be fine. But honestly, I think I've always gone to
Speaker 1: that place in a unhealthy way, like I'm find being alone.
Speaker 1: I can do this on my own. I don't need anybody.
Speaker 1: So I don't think that's unhealthy. I think, well, in
Speaker 1: my case it is, because then that's more like a
Speaker 1: coping mechanism versus starting to see like you know what,
Speaker 1: like I am going to want love, I am going
Speaker 1: to want this down the road, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: deserve this down the road, and I don't have to
Speaker 1: be alone, you know, So it's just kind of the opposite.
Speaker 1: I think they both can be unhealthy, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Interesting, I never thought of that because in
Speaker 1: my mind, I'm like, that's great, but like you well,
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, in my mind, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's great to be rest of my life. But I
Speaker 1: think that's the unhealthy part of me. I think it
Speaker 1: serves me. It's a coping mechanism that serves me, serves
Speaker 1: me well, and then also does not serve me well.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because, um, you know, I'll respond to
Speaker 1: some people on um, you know, on d MS or whatever.
Speaker 1: And when one girl was saying to me, she goes, um,
Speaker 1: she goes, my my ex, I just caught him cheating again. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I just I left. But I just feel
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna be alone forever. And I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: giving her advice that like you had have given me
Speaker 1: the last year. I was like, girlfriend, I was like,
Speaker 1: first of all, you're not going to be alone forever.
Speaker 1: Second of all, like be alone, yeah, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, like find yourself and and you love yourself
Speaker 1: and and also um, I was like, would you rather
Speaker 1: have wanted to stay in that? You know it's like that,
Speaker 1: then then that's not a healthy life either, like just
Speaker 1: to be with someone like and that's what I realized, Like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like I have wanted to stay just
Speaker 1: to be with something like, that's not a reason to
Speaker 1: stay with someone. I think your brain has always known
Speaker 1: that you've just had a hard time. So when you
Speaker 1: give advice, and I think you've probably missed. You've given
Speaker 1: several people advice that I'm like, I think you should
Speaker 1: take your own advice, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: it's like, you know it and you want that for
Speaker 1: other people, but I think sometimes you're not feeling deserving
Speaker 1: of it takes over. Yeah, but self like, but I
Speaker 1: think you're you're self loving. I think you're starting to
Speaker 1: really get it, and so it's even easier to give
Speaker 1: those people that advice. You're starting to actually believe what
Speaker 1: we've been telling you. Yeah, yeah, it's been yeah. But
Speaker 1: and and I'm but I I'm just so excited what
Speaker 1: Amy is going. Where're gonna bring on this podcast too?
Speaker 1: Along the way with us? Um? Well, that was fun.
Speaker 1: She was sweet. I love that she was just her energy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she was great. She'd be a fun therapist. She would
Speaker 1: have some wine with her something U Alright, guys, see
Speaker 1: you next week.