1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: Wine down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast, 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: So I've got a lot to share about what um 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: I went and did and it was very hard but 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: good work. And I think and step in the right direction, 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: and I'm excited to share. I'm just gonna I'm still 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: processing and I think in time, you know, I'll sprinkle it, 7 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: you know, help us all out, give us some give 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: us some tips. It's good, it's good, it's good. It's 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: just you know, it's it's it's hard work doing doing 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: the work as hard work as you as you know 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: and as you're going through and um, but I think 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: it's good work, and i think it's important work to do. Sure, 13 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. Are you 14 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: giving me jesus? Hi? Hi? How I do feel a 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: little bad. We found out that Catherine was getting a 16 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: divorce and that's very sad. And I made a flippant, 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,560 Speaker 1: insensitive comment at the end that is this pot is 18 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: at the pot Caffe's fault because the track record for 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: relationships isn't great and that was rude, and I apologize 20 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: it was a little rude. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, this is yes, 21 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: I agree, and I'm sorry. It's just that was my 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: first reaction was oh, not Catherine too, Like that was 23 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: my honest first reaction when when I was told what 24 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: had happened, I was like, Oh, that's that's so sad. 25 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: And now you know you're well, you know, it's just 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: times change. Mm hmm. I think I think it's interesting 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: because I think people like would say that though, like 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: but someone that I wouldn't like, I know, I know 29 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: what you were trying to say, something like I totally 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: know there was it was a funny ha ha that 31 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: was the point. Yeah, but I think people actually would 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: say that, Yeah, that's the sad part. Yeah, Like you know, 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: like people would say in comments like oh she drives 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: every man to cheat or or um, you know, of 35 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: course her husband believe she was having sex with him, 36 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: or you know what I mean, or like people like 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: it's like they say things and then they're like too, 38 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: and it's just that's what's like hurtful because it's like 39 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: when you don't really know, but what you were saying 40 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: was just more of like a yeah, but maybe that 41 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: triggered a little bit of like people may really say that. 42 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: The trolls could say that, you know, Jane has putting 43 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: ideas and her friends that she got out and they 44 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: got to get out because there is a stat to that. 45 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: By the way, you're much likely to much more likely 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 1: to get divorced if your friend gets a divorce. Yes, 47 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 1: it jumps up, jumps up. Yeah, well that's not what 48 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: I was saying, but there is something to that. Look, 49 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: I will say this if anyone and Cat has been there, 50 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: like she saw me the last year, she saw me 51 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: the first month. If I was someone that saw that, 52 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 1: I'd be like, I ain't getting divorced. I don't want 53 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: to go through that. That that does not look fun, 54 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: you know. And if anything, I almost think the reverse, 55 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: because I'm like and then going into the dating and 56 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: doing all that work. It's like to me, I'm like, 57 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: I wouldn't I would if I would if I was 58 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: like watching myself like I'm staying in my marriage, you know. 59 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: And again, which is why I said, like I would have, 60 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: because I'm like, all that other stuff is just like 61 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: it's work regardless, right, And but um, you know that 62 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: that is interesting. I've never haven't heard that stuff. But well, 63 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: I think the reason it happens is because and I'm 64 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: not saying this for you, too at all. I'm just 65 00:03:28,440 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: saying in general, I think there's a perception of when 66 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: your friend a bunch of friends in the marriage and 67 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 1: one of them gets out of their marriage, they see 68 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: they only see that upside. They see like, look at her, 69 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: she's going out with the friend. You have so much fun. 70 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, that guy she did it is so hot. 71 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, look at her, she's just going around 72 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: and having a blast. She's because the graph is always greener. 73 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: What divorced person are you seeing that done that? Definitely? 74 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: I would have no. No, And that's not been me 75 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: the last year either, Like, yes, I've I've gone on 76 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: some dates and yes, I you know that has me hives, 77 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: But like I there's no part that was like I 78 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: am going out with my girls. You know what my 79 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: girls are doing, They're taking their kids to dance, and 80 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: I'm like I'm I'm texting and going can you guys 81 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: come over? Like and they're like no, I got to 82 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: run him to there and heard there and it's like, 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: m which is you know, the unfortunate part of why 84 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:18,679 Speaker 1: I think I jumped into things is because I wanted, 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 1: like that, that thing to help fill that void. Um. 86 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean there's there's the least this this 87 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: hot girl sum rain, hot girl summer like it's and 88 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: it wasn't hot girl summer last year either. It was 89 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: more like crying and like, you know, being alone and 90 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: like it's not going Like we went to Miami once 91 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: and it was my divorce party, Like and I didn't 92 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: go to Miami from a divorce. Um, that's just not 93 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: my personality though, so at all. Yeah, I mean I'm 94 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: not excited to date. I'm not. I don't like to 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: go out, you know, like that would that part of it, 96 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: But isn't there isn't there is always green or element, 97 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: not just necessarily and divorcing, but justn't like single people 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: they just want to get married and they just want 99 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: to find somebody. But marry people are kind of like, oh, 100 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: that must be so nice to have that freedom and 101 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. I think there is some of 102 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: that I agree with that. I would agree with that 103 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: for sure. I would agree with that in a in 104 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: a sense because I mean if people liked to go 105 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: out and saw you going out, that would be starting 106 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: it fun, you know, yeah, and look I'm watching you. 107 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: No offense not appealing to anyone but listen, that was hard. 108 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't want to get divorced. That's the thing, 109 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: Like I was. I didn't. I didn't want to get divorced. 110 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: I was a mess. Like no part of me ever 111 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: wanted to divorce that man. Ever, Like I had no choice. 112 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: Our circumstances are just so different. It's just so different. 113 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: I mean, there was so much wrong there. We've been 114 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 1: having issues for years, just kind of swept him under 115 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: the rug and just decided to live, you know, just 116 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: going just very very very different circumstances, like nothing even similar. 117 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: So I don't think that you could even I do 118 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: get the other, you know, the other side. But I 119 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: think it's like it's hard being single, it's hard being 120 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: in a relationship, it's hard being married, it's hard being 121 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, doing doing the work. It's like it's all 122 00:06:19,880 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: just kind of hard. But at the same time, like 123 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: I mean, now I see the greener side, Like now 124 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful to be where I'm at and I'm 125 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: and I'm thankful to be single, and I'm thankful to 126 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,040 Speaker 1: be you know, in a in a good spot. And 127 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: I think you'll you're already seeing that, which is amazing, 128 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: Like it's interesting though, like because my my unhealthyness love 129 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: last year of like I just like I don't want 130 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: to be alone, like because I thought a man could 131 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: feel that void, right, and it's like that's not even 132 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: on yours. So it's like it's interesting, like how you know, 133 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: how we how different we think too. I'm I like 134 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: to be alone. I'm a loner and that's the whole 135 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: thing with you. I'm like, you get to be alone. 136 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: I know you were, And maybe there was an aspect 137 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: of that sure that I looked at her and I'm like, man, 138 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: she doesn't see and value that, whereas I felt like 139 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: I would, you know, so maybe there is a part 140 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: of that that was like man, like she gets to 141 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: be on her own and work on things and do this. 142 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: And that was Yes, that was very much appealing to 143 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: me in the sense of like I want to have 144 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: that time. I want to have that time to work 145 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: on myself and be happy and you know, so I 146 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: think in a good way. Yes, maybe it definitely did 147 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: help watching well. I will say it took me a 148 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: year to get to where you are, like that that 149 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 1: part like now I'm like, oh, I'm so excited like 150 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: to like because I think healthy attracts healthy, and I 151 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: think I was so unhealthy in certain areas that I'm 152 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to like really like you know, and 153 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that I did this past weekend 154 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 1: is the start of that, and and and and not 155 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: putting an emphasis on like my worth is not dependent 156 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: on a relationship, and I think I've always put it 157 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 1: on that because of all my daddy stuff. But then 158 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 1: that's basically I'm going to talk more about it, but 159 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm also going to get the person that runs the 160 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: place on here and so um, that's going to be 161 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: a that's when I'll dive deeper into that work because 162 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: it's just, um, realizing you're worth might take a little while, 163 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: but when you do, when you dig deep, it's a 164 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: it's a it's a good place to be. So um. 165 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: But before uh, we do that, we're gonna have Mary 166 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: Ellen on because we are going to talk about boundaries. 167 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: So let's take a break and get around Hi mary Ellen. 168 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I'm gonna say a girl for like 169 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: one Okay, can I can I finger on you? Because 170 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: you're so cute? Thank you, You're so pretty, You're like, 171 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: I love your office, You're adorable. Um, thank you. This 172 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: is um. You know the sticky wallpaper that I got 173 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: for like a dollar at Target. I'm I love it. Well, 174 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: I'm Jemna. This is Catherine. Okay, you can you can. 175 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: You can totally fan girl if you want. Let's do this, Okay. 176 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: So it's really funny that I'm about to talk about 177 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: boundaries because I'm going to cross one right now, and 178 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: I just have to ask you what it's like kissing 179 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Stephen Coletti. That's a good question coming from the boundary 180 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: queen herself. Um, she's asking such a personal question. Um, 181 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: you know, how was it kissing Stephen? I love Stephen Coletti? 182 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: I really do. And I hope he doesn't hear this. 183 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: He I've had better, but I I love Stephen, and 184 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: I think you know, we we had like our chemistry, 185 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: wasn't UM like that, you know what I mean? Like 186 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: we we had more of like a brother sister chemistry. 187 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: So I think that also UM impacted those scenes because 188 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean literally would be like making out and then 189 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: we'd be like, so are we gonna have Caesar salad? 190 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: And then like what else do you think they're gonna 191 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: have at lunch today? And like we just we didn't 192 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: have like I don't think we were necessarily like because 193 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: he was younger. I was, like I was in a relationship, 194 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: and I mean, not that that matters. Well, no, it 195 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 1: does matter, but I'm saying like what I meant for 196 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,839 Speaker 1: acting and like, you know, like you can still have 197 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: chemistry with someone. Um, but yeah, I mean he's you know, 198 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: you know, yeah Alex. Alex enjoyed it, Janna, you know 199 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 1: I was. I was too into you know. Yeah, that 200 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: was just it was just the job. I wasn't like 201 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: paying attention to, like, oh, this kiss is amazing. Trying 202 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: to think who the best kisser was though that I've 203 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: ever like on screen kiss must be so awkward. Um, 204 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: it is. It is very awkward the first time, like 205 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 1: when you are about to um, Like the first kiss 206 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: is always the most awkward kiss because you're like like 207 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 1: I'm you know, most of the time I've been in 208 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: a relationship when I've filmed some and so it's like, oh, 209 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: like this just feels weird too, but also like it's 210 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: just that first kiss. It's like you're gonna have butterflies regardless, Right, 211 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 1: that's funny. I didn't think about that. If you have 212 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: butterflies before kissing on screen. Well, I mean I because 213 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, it's not just like it's like but then afterwards, 214 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:30,559 Speaker 1: like then then this just goes away. So who was 215 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: the best I'm trying to remember. I can't. I mean, 216 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 1: I haven't like had like a bad, bad one, but 217 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 1: the best I don't know. I mean they've all been 218 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: like like the whole Marky kisses, you know, So it's 219 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: not like I don't want to say anyways, I'm gonna 220 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: put a boundary up and hold that one for myself 221 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 1: for you, but y'all can go fire off in the 222 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: comments and take a guess because it's ye's sweet and 223 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,959 Speaker 1: that's weird. Um but anyhow, um okay, So I'm very 224 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: excited to have you. So you're a One Tree Hiller? 225 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, well I'm thirty two, so I 226 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: was like write the age range as like it was 227 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,719 Speaker 1: coming out. So yeah, I mean, who isn't a One 228 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: Tree Hiller? Let's be honest, right, Um? So, but you contacted? 229 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: So you do you listen to the podcast? I do? 230 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: I do. It's so funny because I talked about boundaries 231 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: all the time. People make fun of me for talking 232 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: about boundaries all the time. I am a therapist, so 233 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 1: it's appropriate in a lot of ways, but also in 234 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: my personal life, like my dad, who's not a therapist. 235 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: He's in his seventies. He's like, since when did this 236 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: word boundaries become so popular? Like I never heard that 237 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: were like before you um So yeah. I was walking 238 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: my dog and listening to um your podcast and you 239 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: were talking about how you needed someone to talk about 240 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: boundaries and I was like, I can do that. You're like, 241 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,960 Speaker 1: pick me, I can do this. So there was something 242 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: that you said in your I believe it was your 243 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 1: email to Catherine, because you email Catherine and you said 244 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: something like you don't even is it that you don't 245 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: like to put the word boundaries or there's something that 246 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is an interesting thought. So 247 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: recently I have been seeing boundaries everywhere and it's kind 248 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:34,199 Speaker 1: of similar to you know, gas lighting is gaslighting? Yeah, 249 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: all of these things that are being talked about everywhere. 250 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: And I had a client coming the other day that 251 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, so I told them to f off 252 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 1: because I was setting a boundary and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 253 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: Setting a boundary is not an excuse to like, you know, 254 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: be mean to people. And I've been hearing it more 255 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: in that way of like, oh, well, I can set 256 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: a boundary and just shook these people out of my 257 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: life and maybe that's your boundary. But boundaries are so 258 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: much more nuanced than that, and I worry that people 259 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: are getting this message of like you're either in my 260 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,320 Speaker 1: life or you're out of my life, and that's what 261 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: a boundary is. And it's like no, no, no, no, no, 262 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: like any healthy relationship is going to have boundaries to 263 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, it does, it does. Yeah, 264 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: it's almost like it's almost like and this is another 265 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: word like stonewalling. So it's like I think that the 266 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: keywords in narcissist stone walling, gas lighting, uh, boundaries. And 267 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: having said all that, though, it is very interesting to 268 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: look at all of those things and go oh wow, 269 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: like that helps explain certain things are like oh, like 270 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: I think I've done one or so of those, like 271 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make sure like I didn't know that I'm 272 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: saying I'm sorry you feel that way is a gaslighting comment, 273 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: you know. So it's like kind of recognizing going oh, shoot, 274 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: well how do I change that? Or um, but I 275 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: think when it comes to two boundaries with that, it 276 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: almost thinks like just to shut someone out seems like 277 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: a very stonewalling I don't know, but again I'm trying 278 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: to learn. Also love bombing. It's another one that is 279 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 1: one been used, um and so yeah, but I'm curious, like, 280 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: is that is that a part of that? Like would 281 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: that go into the stonewalling chapter? Maybe? You know, because 282 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: I'm all about boundaries. I love setting boundaries. I love 283 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: talking about them, but I do get worried that we're 284 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: like missing the point, you know, and sometimes we're going 285 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: to say goodbye. I don't need you in my life anymore. Absolutely, 286 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: But most of the time when we're setting boundaries, it's 287 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: to actually keep people in our lives in a healthy 288 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: way and a happy way, so that we don't become 289 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: resentful of them, so that we don't you know, hate 290 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: them in ten years. That kind of thing I love. 291 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: I love that we just said boundaries are actually to 292 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: keep people in your life, not to not have them 293 00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: in your life. Right, And of course there's certain people 294 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 1: that maybe we just you know, we shouldn't they shouldn't 295 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: be in our lives or we shouldn't be in their lives, 296 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: but boundaries, Like any healthy relationship, you want boundaries that 297 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: can make the relationship healthier to know, kind of like 298 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: where your role ends and my role begins. And that's 299 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: really what boundaries are supposed to be, right Like I 300 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: know what my side of the street is, and I 301 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: know what your side of the street is, and I'm 302 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: going to make sure over here is clean, and I'm 303 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 1: going to make sure I don't go into your side 304 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: of the street when I'm not supposed to. So what 305 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: is what's what's healthy boundaries in a relationship that you 306 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: think or is it something that where it's it's only 307 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 1: based upon um what's right? Like what's in their relationship? 308 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: I guess I think, I mean, I like, it's obviously 309 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: very dependent on the relationship and the type of relationship, 310 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: but I think healthy boundaries are when neither person in 311 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: the relationship, whether it's a friendship or a family member 312 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: or a romantic relationship, when neither person is making decisions 313 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: out of guilt, out of fear of the other person 314 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 1: leaving them, or fear of the other person being mad 315 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: or being rejected, like so often we're making decisions based 316 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: out of those feelings versus based out of what's best 317 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: for me, what's best for the relationship, what's best for 318 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: this person, how do you stick to because that's that's 319 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: my that's my biggest thing. So I have like there's 320 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: you know, certain boundaries that I have let people, and 321 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: I will say, um, I've also stepped over certain boundaries 322 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: too in my past relationships, and um, so I'll let's 323 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: start with let's start with that. So, if if I 324 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: was to cross the boundary, is it the person and 325 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: vice versa? Is it the person to set the What 326 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: happens when you cross the boundary? Is that? Like what 327 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: do you do from from? From then? Like let's say 328 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, no more slamming doors. I slammed a door. 329 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 1: You don't even make if the boundaries do not slam 330 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: the door in the house and I in the door. 331 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: So here's the thing. People don't change like that. So 332 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: I think if we're working with people, if I'm trying 333 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: to set a boundary with you and you forget or 334 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,440 Speaker 1: you don't do it, but you have the good intentions 335 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: and you want to have a productive conversation about it, 336 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: and you apologize and say, Okay, I understand why this 337 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: is crossing your boundary. That's a whole different story versus 338 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: I'm just slamming the door and like not taking into 339 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,320 Speaker 1: consideration what you want, you know, because I think I 340 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: think the other problem is a lot of the time 341 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: when people are crossing our boundaries, they don't even know. 342 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: Like that's a very good example of Okay, this person 343 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: knows that you don't like slamming doors. Like for me, 344 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:39,959 Speaker 1: if I'm in a relationship, like name calling is now okay, 345 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 1: Like that's a huge boundary of mine that I sat 346 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: right from the beginning. But I've been in relationships where 347 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, in the heat of the moment, there's been 348 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: name calling, but then there's been the oh my gosh, 349 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. That's my fault. I take responsibility for this. 350 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: I know I crossed the boundary. I'm going to do 351 00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: this to make sure I don't cross that boundary again. 352 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: I respect that boundary. Uh um. And I think that 353 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: like those conversations are so different than the why are 354 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: you mad at I slammed the door? Sure? Yeah. Um. 355 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: So for example, like let's say one of my boundaries is, um, 356 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 1: you know, I if if you lie to me, that's 357 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: that's a huge boundary for me lying, Yeah, what happens 358 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: then if that person lies, what am I supposed to do? Like, 359 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: because in my mind, I'm like, I know now that 360 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: I can't be with anyone that has well, it's just 361 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: so hard this and this is where this is where 362 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,440 Speaker 1: this is where the boundaries get so gray, is because 363 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: I'm like, I get it's very hard to be honest. 364 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: I get that I've I haven't been honest at times. 365 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: So but now knowing my season of healing and growth 366 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: and stuff, when I say, you know, if you were 367 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: to lie about this this subject, this would be catastrophic 368 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: in the relationship, Like if you were to lie about 369 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 1: cheating on your wife or whatever, you know what I mean. Like, 370 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: let's just say that example, like and you I find 371 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: out then, like when I find out, it's like, but 372 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: that's such a bound like the lie instead of really 373 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: the act, it's like the lie. So what do you 374 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: do with that? Because I feel like lying is such 375 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: a big boundary. Lying is huge. So I think that 376 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: what you do with that says more about you than 377 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: the other person. Okay, please talk to me more about that, 378 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: because I talk to me about about that. And yeah, 379 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: so this is a great example So if I say, lying, 380 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: is you a huge boundary? You know? First date, this 381 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: is my boundary. Do you have anything to tell me? Okay, 382 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: fifth date, do you have anything to tell me? Do 383 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: you have anything to tell me? And then this person 384 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: comes back to me and I find out in kind 385 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,680 Speaker 1: of a not so great way and they don't They're 386 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: not honest with me. You know, it would be one thing. 387 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: I think if someone comes to you and it's like 388 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: I wasn't honest with you honestly, is hard. We were 389 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: just getting to know each other. Now that we know 390 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 1: each other well, right, like, I think that can be 391 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: something worked with. But if I find out in another 392 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: way and I'm upsetting, you cross my boundary and then 393 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: I decide to forgive it. Forgive is the wrong word 394 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: because forgiveness is good. I decide to move past it, 395 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: and you know, violate that boundary. Why am I doing that? 396 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: Am I doing that because I trust you and I 397 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: believe that people make mistakes and you made a mistake. 398 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: Or Am I doing it because I'm getting other needs 399 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: met from you and I don't want to, you know, 400 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: give up those other needs I'm getting met from by you. 401 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 1: So I'm just going to ignore this huge, big need 402 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: because I'm getting these other little needs that, um, you know, 403 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: am I doing it because I don't want to feel 404 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,879 Speaker 1: rejected or insecure or alone or any of those feelings. 405 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 1: I think that figuring out why you're doing that is 406 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: the huge piece of the puzzle. Mm hmm. That's good. Yeah, 407 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: that's really good. Yeah, it's a very good point. And 408 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: also realizing that that's probably that's a that's that kind 409 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 1: of boundary is something that shouldn't be crossed essentially too well, 410 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: and realizing like I think values are a good kind 411 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: of like baseline to decide our boundaries. Right, So you 412 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: have a big value of honesty. I mean I do too. 413 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: I'm guessing you do too, Catherine. I think a lot 414 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: of people do. But I will say like I do, 415 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: like I'm a big like you know, twenty four hour grace. 416 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: You know, Okay, I I wasn't honest that I'd like 417 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: to correct that, Like I'm all about a correction of 418 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 1: a lie. But that's so different because that's someone coming 419 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,600 Speaker 1: and saying, hey, I need to be honest. That's such 420 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: a different way about things than finding out about lacks. 421 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 1: It's just too completely different ways to lie in my opinion, 422 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, I don't know it, just 423 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: absolutely agree. And I think it also is like helping 424 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: the other person to under and it's not other people's 425 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: responsibilities to understand all of our inner workings, but helping 426 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: the other person to understand this is why this is 427 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 1: a boundary for me. This is why this is a 428 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: trigger for me. And if I'm overreacting, like okay, let 429 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: me know, also recognize that this is what it feels 430 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 1: like to me. So for me, it's not an overreaction 431 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 1: for me. This is you know, having that person understand 432 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 1: where that's coming from, and maybe they just won't care 433 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: and they'll be kind of a jerk about it, or 434 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: maybe that will like add some more to the story, 435 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. Yeah, yeah, I think yeah, 436 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: I think right, yes, So writing down like so for 437 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: me it would be like, okay, these are things that 438 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: like cheating, no go like in the relationship, lying about 439 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: you know some that stuff that like that would be 440 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: like I feel like all that stuff would like and 441 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: has triggered me in my past because of past experiences. 442 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: Granted worked through them, but still I was gonna say, 443 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: I think too again, is how people handle it that 444 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:57,919 Speaker 1: is also so triggering for you. It's not about someone 445 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 1: lying to you. I mean it is, but it's not 446 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: just about them lying to you. It's how they handle it. 447 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: It's how they speak to you, It's how it's you 448 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's it's so encompassed and so 449 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: many other things you're finding out about someone lying them 450 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: not even being honest when you bring the lie, it's 451 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: just digging a hole. That's so many triggers. It's not 452 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: just a simple lie. Well, and we also work based 453 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: on muscle memory. So if someone is lying about lying, 454 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: you have I mean, I know that's from listening to 455 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 1: your podcast. You have been in a position before where 456 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: people have lied to you about lying, and so like 457 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: our brains and our bodies have muscle memories. So when 458 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: someone is lying to you about lying again, and then 459 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: you're triggered, you're going to go back to that place 460 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,439 Speaker 1: that you're so comfortable in of guilt and fear and 461 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: insecurity and detective and like all of it. Like yeah, 462 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: just like all the fear, all the like question. And 463 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: that's I'm like, I don't want to play I'm not 464 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 1: playing detective, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, and 465 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: then you start helping out of your fear. Yeah. Yeah, 466 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: is that how you to make decisions? Like? Do you 467 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: want to be making fear based decisions? And I feel 468 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: like that's how most people make their boundaries or lack 469 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: there up right. I don't want this person to be 470 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: mad at me. Oh, I don't want to, you know, 471 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: create this situation. So I'm not going to say this boundary, 472 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: But that's not you know what's underneath that fear is 473 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: underneath that fear. Okay, I'm having this fear because I'm 474 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: in this situation where someone's lying to me about lying 475 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: and this is this is kind of my muscle memory reaction, 476 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: And how do I actually want to make this decision? 477 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: Does that make any sense? It doesn't. Yeah, it absolutely does, 478 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:36,719 Speaker 1: because I think if I was to be faced in 479 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: that kind of next situation, I think I would if 480 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: that was to happen again, I'd be like, Nope, I 481 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,359 Speaker 1: can't because I know my nervous system remembers all the 482 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 1: trauma from previous relationships that I would be like, I 483 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: don't like the version of who that person who I become. 484 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: And also I know for myself, I actually do deserve 485 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: better than that you know now, So it's like I 486 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: think that's like, but sticking to that boundary has always 487 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: been such a hard thing because of the conditions and 488 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: what I have been conditioned to believe and what I've 489 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: believed in myself. Right, so it's like, you know, that's 490 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: that's where it becomes that like battle with like this 491 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: person going, you know, my one side going like you know, 492 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: you deserve so much about it, don't stay, don't stay. 493 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 1: And then everyone's like, well, you do deserve it, you know, 494 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: like you're you're not working, you know what I mean. 495 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: Like it's like it's like this like nick nick mip, yeah, 496 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: well and you know so I do E M D 497 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,640 Speaker 1: R two. I love that you promote that, by the way, 498 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: But you know that like trauma gets stuck, It gets 499 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:39,720 Speaker 1: stuck in our brain, and so those places where it's 500 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: still stuck, we kind of like revert right back to 501 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: that um and then and then we become exactly that 502 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: person that we don't want to be. And you know, 503 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,560 Speaker 1: I think it's tough too, because if we're interacting with 504 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: people who respect that, you know, maybe it won't be 505 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: as nice of a conversation as like, oh I respect 506 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 1: that boundary. It won't be as to use that, but 507 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: it can be Okay, I hear where you're like, I 508 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: see why this is triggering you, And I didn't mean 509 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: it that way, but like, let's kind of rewind and 510 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: figure out how we can do this together, right because 511 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: that person or whoever you know we're in relationships with 512 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 1: have their own boundaries too, and we have to make 513 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: sure we're also not crossing those boundaries, which I'm sure 514 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: we accidentally do sometimes, and so figuring out almost like 515 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: new boundaries together also, you know, um new boundaries of 516 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: like how do you stick to it? Though? Like when 517 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: you know, how do you can just hold my hand 518 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 1: to the fire, I will stick to my boundary? How 519 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: do you just like, how do you just do that? 520 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: You just have to do it so you recognize when 521 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,640 Speaker 1: you're making like fear guilt based decisions, and if you're 522 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 1: making a fear guilt based decision, you call Catherine and say, 523 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: I'm about to make a bad decision, right like that, 524 00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: Guys have to show my friends with the boundaries. I 525 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 1: mean usually I would like not tell them anything because 526 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: I wouldn't want them to like hate the person I 527 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: find out later, It's fine, you know, if they have 528 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: a reason to hate the person, then be a good sign. 529 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: That might be is hard, but the thing is the 530 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: person that we need to set boundaries with. Our people 531 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: are acting in the only way they know how. They're 532 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: not I'm not I don't want to say they're not 533 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: doing anything wrong because like I think lying is wrong 534 00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,679 Speaker 1: or you know, some some things are wrong, but like, 535 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: they're not purposely doing anything. This is how they function. Like, 536 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: this is how they function. And I'm a therapist. I 537 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: believe people can change, but people have to want to 538 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: change and be willing to have those conversations. So if 539 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: you're trying to set a boundary with someone and they're 540 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: still lying to you or they're trying to blame you 541 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: or getting defensive or whatever, like that is the way 542 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 1: they know how to act. And so if this is 543 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 1: the only way they know how to act, they're going 544 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: to keep acting that way. And by me continuing to 545 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: do what I'm doing, that's continuing to reinforce them acting 546 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 1: this way. So like I am actually encouraging them to 547 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:13,239 Speaker 1: act this way by not studying a boundary, by not 548 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: sticking to my boundary. Oh that's that's a really, really 549 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: good that's so true. Are you looking at that well, 550 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: because I'm just thinking through like you can't really like 551 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: they that's how they act, like she said, like that's 552 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: how they know to react and act. So like what's 553 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: going to change that? And then if you're essentially enabling 554 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: them to act that way because you allow it, like 555 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: how do you change that cycle? Right? And it's kind 556 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: of like yeah, I mean my ex would say, like 557 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: I knew I could still cheat because you know you 558 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't leave. I knew you would never leave. What stopping 559 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: it was like even though I was always like, give 560 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: you do it one more time, I'm not a here, 561 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: But of course it's like like you said, it's like 562 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: that's the what's preventing you from sticking to that? Oh? 563 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 1: It was all like my lack of self worth and 564 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: believing that I deserved it or that it was my 565 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,080 Speaker 1: fault or um, and that I just you know, they've 566 00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: done so much work around that now like now and 567 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: now I know it now, it's just sticking to it. 568 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: I think, like, um, one thing that might be I 569 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: was about to say fun, but probably not fun, but 570 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: like ask yourself, like these things that you now believe 571 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: about yourself or that you're starting to believe and want 572 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: to believe even more. Would a person like take yourself 573 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: out of it? What a person who believes I deserve this, 574 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: I want this, you know this that and the other 575 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: what would they do? You know, what would that person do? 576 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: Because I'm like fifty percent there, but I'm not like 577 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: a hundred percent there yet, and so what would the 578 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:53,760 Speaker 1: hundred percent person do? And kind of do something, you know, 579 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: based out of that. And the other thing is setting 580 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: boundaries are way more uncomfortable for us than it is 581 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: for the other person, way more uncomfortable. Like it's that 582 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: other person who's lying and you know, acting the way 583 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: they know how to act. They're not uncomfortable. They're acting 584 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 1: how they've always acted, and us stepping out of our 585 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: comfort zone and like increasing that, increasing that anxiety and saying, 586 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: here's my boundary or this is what I'm doing. Like 587 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: that's so uncomfortable, And so that may be a reason 588 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: you're not sticking to them. Also is because it's just weird. 589 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: You're not used to it. Like if you have never 590 00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: stuck to the the boundaries, you don't know what that's like. 591 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times in in my 592 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,479 Speaker 1: previous um like situations where it's it's a lot of 593 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,760 Speaker 1: like um shift like shifting blame. So it's like you 594 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: start to think like, oh, well, it's my fault that 595 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: they went and did that, or it's my fault that 596 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: because of my you know, and so that then you 597 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: like you take on what there, you take on that stuff. 598 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 1: And that's that's also knowing now that that's not true. 599 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: But I think that happens a lot as well. Like 600 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,440 Speaker 1: women take on what they say, well, you kicked me 601 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 1: out of the house and so or well you know, 602 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: you were yelling, or you were needy, or you were this, 603 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,720 Speaker 1: or you were that, and and they believe what they're 604 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,719 Speaker 1: being told. Yeah, and it's like, well, yeah, I was, 605 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: I was being a little bit of a bit, sure 606 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: I was, you know. So then they take on the 607 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: blame for the person's actions. I think one thing that 608 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: helps with that because for me, like if I'm in 609 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: a relationship and they come and blame me and they're like, 610 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: well you were being kind of a bit, you were 611 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: being kind of needy. Uh, and someone tells me like, 612 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: you're not a bit, You're not needy, I wouldn't believe them. 613 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: So like what helps me in those moments. It is like, Okay, 614 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: even if I was being a little needy, let's say 615 00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: I was being a little needy, Okay, they still shouldn't 616 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: do that, Like, okay, that's still not okay, and then 617 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: hopefully work up to the point of I'm not a bit, 618 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: I'm not needy, I'm awesome, I'm deserving, right, But we 619 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: can't go from zero to a hundred. We have to 620 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,360 Speaker 1: kind of start small. And so if you're in a 621 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: place where like logically you know you're deserving, but emotionally 622 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: you don't feel it yet, maybe say to yourself, Okay, 623 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: I don't feel deserving, and maybe I'm not deserving a 624 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 1: better or maybe I don't feel whatever yet, and I'm 625 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: working towards that, and what they're doing is still not okay. 626 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: It it doesn't make it okay. Oh like I slammed 627 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: the door, I was the one that did something wrong. Okay, 628 00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: we can apologize for that because we're humans and not 629 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: do it again. And that doesn't make it okay for 630 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: them to lie. And I feel like it's become this 631 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: like back and forth of who to blame, like you're 632 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: saying and it's like, no, I don't care if you 633 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: were being a bit, they shouldn't do that. M Yeah, 634 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: that's it's interesting. Yeah, it is, it's very interesting. Yeah, 635 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,760 Speaker 1: And I think that like we should also and I 636 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: said it a little bit, but with boundaries, like also 637 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 1: look at like we we have functions of our behaviors. 638 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 1: So there's a reason we do things. There's a reason 639 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 1: you're not sticking to your boundaries. Is that reason? You know, 640 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: it's muscle memory, it's comfort. Is that reason because you 641 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: know they're meeting other needs for you that like you 642 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,120 Speaker 1: don't want to let go of. I think figuring out 643 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 1: those reasons will also help you stick to those boundaries 644 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: because then you'll know kind of the missing piece that Okay, 645 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: they're meeting this need for me, but let me go 646 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: find that need elsewhere so I can keep these boundaries 647 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: up here. Yeah, I mean, and and I've realized like 648 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,440 Speaker 1: through through work and stuff, it's like that that is 649 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 1: it was that need was like being wanted and loved. 650 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: You know, it was loved enough you know to like 651 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: because I put worth and that you know in relationships 652 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 1: and like that that defines because of you know, won't 653 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: go into the child and stuff now, but yeah, that's 654 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, it makes so much sense. It's a definitely 655 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: like a lightbulb kind of moment. But I think you're right, Like, 656 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: once you are in that healthy spot and you do 657 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,399 Speaker 1: believe that, like your your boundaries will be UM will 658 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: be better. And I think even for you Cat like 659 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,160 Speaker 1: you're you, you realize that too. Like you, you're so 660 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:25,960 Speaker 1: aware of of what you need. Yeah, and I think 661 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,200 Speaker 1: that's a a great place to be in two. Yes, 662 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 1: I feel like I am, but I think there's a 663 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 1: lot of needs out there that I haven't tapped into 664 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: that I have to, like you know what I mean, 665 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: I can be very aware, but at the same time, 666 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: like there's a lot of work I need to do 667 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: to figure out how to be a healthier version of myself. 668 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: But I think we all have work too, And that's 669 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: the thing, Like I I don't. I don't think you 670 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: stop healing and growing. I think you continue to do 671 00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 1: that so um and that is you know, boundaries is 672 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: not just relation and ship, you know, I think the 673 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,239 Speaker 1: boundaries and friends and I think we've you know, set 674 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 1: certain boundaries of people in our life too. So I 675 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: don't And it's okay if you don't want them in 676 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,719 Speaker 1: your life anymore. I think there's a healthy way right 677 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: to be like this is just isn't healthy or springing 678 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,840 Speaker 1: up stuff and um, I don't like that's one sided 679 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. Yeah, yeah, I think that's going to happen 680 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,320 Speaker 1: with lots of you know, there are times where it's like, Okay, 681 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: this relationship is not serving me, it's not healthy. There's 682 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: way too many unhealthy things unhealthy So you know, we're 683 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 1: just gonna have to part our ways, which is totally 684 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 1: it's normal. Um, but you mentioned something interesting, Janna. You 685 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:40,280 Speaker 1: mentioned that, like you know that your need is for love, 686 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: and so if you have a need of respect, but 687 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 1: you're like craving the love, like that is going to 688 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,760 Speaker 1: trump the respect every single time if that's what you're craving, 689 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: because that's also a human need, like we all need that, um, 690 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: And so like, is there a way to and not 691 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 1: to put you on the spot, you don't have to 692 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,239 Speaker 1: answer this, but is there a way to get that 693 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: need for respect up there at that same level as 694 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: the need for like love and validation? Well, that's to 695 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,239 Speaker 1: love myself. When I love myself, like loving myself gets 696 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: me the respect because I will adds to the same respect. 697 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: It's kind of like how I've realized it. That makes sense. 698 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,839 Speaker 1: It's hard to do though, Yeah, especially like when you've 699 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: been conditioned like a certain way. Like I'm sure you 700 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,800 Speaker 1: know people if you've been a condition to a certain 701 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 1: way to not be if you're not affectionate, like and 702 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: now you're like, that's your conde's your conditioning. It's like 703 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: I've always been conditioned to be affectionate and love and 704 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: so weird to be the opposite. Yeah, I mean since 705 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,919 Speaker 1: I was in a high school, Like when Matthew broke 706 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: up with me my you know, my high school sweetheart, 707 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: I was like devastating, you know, because then like but 708 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: I put so much because that was like my first 709 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: boyfriend after my parents divorce, and like you know, and 710 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 1: it's like again someone like so it's like that has 711 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: just been so routined and I don't know, like you know, 712 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: you're growing up in an not very physical household, it's 713 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: like you you get routined into these um places where 714 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: that's just what you want and crave or not wanting, 715 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: you know. Um. So I think it's interesting too, because 716 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: like I think what we crave and what we need 717 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: are two different things. I mean, sometimes I think they 718 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: can overlap, but sometimes I think they're different. And like 719 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 1: Catherine was saying, like I feel like our needs, they're 720 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: changing all the time, and I don't know all my needs. 721 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 1: And sometimes I'm like, Okay, I feel like I need 722 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,479 Speaker 1: to set a boundary. I feel like something's not feeling right, 723 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: but I don't know what that is. And so that's 724 00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,240 Speaker 1: another thing with sticking to boundaries, Like maybe they're maybe 725 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: we need to like tweak them for you, like not 726 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: to have people you know lie to you and for 727 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: you to accept that, But like what is that maybe 728 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,279 Speaker 1: for you? You're just like nope, I'm done. Like I 729 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: know other people can have conversations about this and get 730 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,360 Speaker 1: past this, but I can't because if I have a 731 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: conversation about it, I'm gonna get sucked back into that 732 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: craving and this is my need over here. So you know, 733 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: maybe like changing that boundary for yourself in a way 734 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: that you will stick to it. Yeah, I think I will. 735 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: I know I have. I know I will now because 736 00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:18,280 Speaker 1: I love myself enough to know that I deserve respect 737 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: and love. There you go, there you go. It's amazing. 738 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: Friends that will beat me if I don't know, but 739 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 1: they're foundering. No, but I mean at the end of 740 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,560 Speaker 1: the day, like it's like I'm good, like I've got 741 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: like my focus is my like babies, babies and kiddos. 742 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: I don't need love is not going to be. Being 743 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: in a relationship is now is not going to validate 744 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 1: my worth and I always wanted it to. I've always 745 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,720 Speaker 1: put it will not be the thing to validate my worth. 746 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 1: And and I I look up to you, cat because 747 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 1: you don't seeing you strong, It's like that's not it's 748 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: going okay. I I don't need to put that all 749 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,960 Speaker 1: that worth in that basket because that's not what it is. 750 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 1: You know, I've I don't, I don't, I don't need that. 751 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,359 Speaker 1: I would love it one day, you know. I love 752 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,560 Speaker 1: a relationship, but not the wrong one I've I've been 753 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:17,160 Speaker 1: in the wrong ones before. I don't. I don't need 754 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: to be and not. I don't want to set healthy 755 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: boundaries too, not to not do that again and again 756 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: it's not fun. I don't want to have to go 757 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: to a place again first one for we just have 758 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,839 Speaker 1: someone coming. I think figuring out our needs like as 759 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,320 Speaker 1: they're ever changing, is important to because like I've dated 760 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: plenty of douche bags, and I'm like, wait, this guy 761 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: who's like not that great is telling me I'm not Like, 762 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,480 Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense. Like I almost had like well, 763 00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: I had a bunch of maha moments, but like finally 764 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: the aha moment that stuck with me was like I 765 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: was like, wait, I know that. I'm like, you know, 766 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 1: worth a lot more than like what they're giving me. 767 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: And like this person who's like not very nice, not 768 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: very attractive, not very six you know, all that doesn't 769 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 1: make a person's worth obviously, obviously, but I was like, 770 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,720 Speaker 1: why am I listening to that person instead of listening 771 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: to all these other people over here and what they're 772 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 1: telling me. Yeah. Yeah, that's the little light bomb moments, 773 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:23,799 Speaker 1: like listen to what your friends say, you know, when 774 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: they say you deserve it like you do. Yeah, I'm 775 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: sure if they're good friends, they're gonna be honest with you. Yeah. 776 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,320 Speaker 1: And you have a podcast too, right? I do. I 777 00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: have a podcast. It's called the okay Ish Podcast and 778 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: what could what do you? What do you? What do 779 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,759 Speaker 1: you talk about? On there? Is? It? Is it okay Ish? 780 00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 1: Like what do you? What do you? Yeah, it's all 781 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 1: about like mental health in this world today, So I 782 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,040 Speaker 1: talk about things that are so trendy, like you know, 783 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: gas lighting and empowerment and all of that. There's lots 784 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:56,680 Speaker 1: of you know, being positive is great, but there's lots 785 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,319 Speaker 1: of like toxic positivity. That's where the name okay ish 786 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,360 Speaker 1: came from. Like it's you know, it's not realistic to 787 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: be amazing every single day and that's okay. And being 788 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: able to like manage these things. So it's a lot 789 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,960 Speaker 1: of kind of like translating trendy mental health terms and 790 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: being able to talk about all of that. I love that. UM. 791 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: So our listeners can find you on the okay ish 792 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,399 Speaker 1: podcasts in the where else um On Instagram, I am 793 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:28,040 Speaker 1: pretty active and it's mary Ellen Dance. Is there anything 794 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: you want to leave us with boundary wise or anything 795 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: else with any of the other hot topic words out there? Um, 796 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: just that sticking to boundaries is going to help your relationship. 797 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: Like whatever next relationship you get into or friendships or 798 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: whatever that are going to be healthy will have good boundaries. 799 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: Like there's no way you can have a healthy relationship 800 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: without some good boundaries, and so thinking of it in 801 00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: a good way and no, this is going to strengthen 802 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,800 Speaker 1: us if we have the boundaries like that. There's comfort 803 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: in that. There's a lot of comfort in that. I 804 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 1: love them. Well, thank you, Mary Ellen. I appreciate you 805 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:10,720 Speaker 1: coming on. Thank you so much for having me. Of course, 806 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: all right, I have a question for you. Okay, I know, 807 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: I know we're very different. Do you have you ever 808 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: gone to like the I'm going to be alone forever? No? No, 809 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,200 Speaker 1: I mean I've thought about it like in this sense 810 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: that I could, I could do it and I could 811 00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: be fine. But honestly, I think I've always gone to 812 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:38,280 Speaker 1: that place in a unhealthy way, like I'm find being alone. 813 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,000 Speaker 1: I can do this on my own. I don't need anybody. 814 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: So I don't think that's unhealthy. I think, well, in 815 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,840 Speaker 1: my case it is, because then that's more like a 816 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: coping mechanism versus starting to see like you know what, 817 00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:55,680 Speaker 1: like I am going to want love, I am going 818 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: to want this down the road, and I'm going to 819 00:43:57,680 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 1: deserve this down the road, and I don't have to 820 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,520 Speaker 1: be alone, you know, So it's just kind of the opposite. 821 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: I think they both can be unhealthy, you know what 822 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: I mean. Interesting, I never thought of that because in 823 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: my mind, I'm like, that's great, but like you well, 824 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean, of course, in my mind, I'm like, yeah, 825 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: it's great to be rest of my life. But I 826 00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: think that's the unhealthy part of me. I think it 827 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,720 Speaker 1: serves me. It's a coping mechanism that serves me, serves 828 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:20,680 Speaker 1: me well, and then also does not serve me well. 829 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: So it's interesting because, um, you know, I'll respond to 830 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: some people on um, you know, on d MS or whatever. 831 00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: And when one girl was saying to me, she goes, um, 832 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: she goes, my my ex, I just caught him cheating again. Um, 833 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:39,919 Speaker 1: you know, I just I left. But I just feel 834 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,759 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna be alone forever. And I'm like, I'm 835 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: giving her advice that like you had have given me 836 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,360 Speaker 1: the last year. I was like, girlfriend, I was like, 837 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:49,960 Speaker 1: first of all, you're not going to be alone forever. 838 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,480 Speaker 1: Second of all, like be alone, yeah, you know what 839 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, like find yourself and and you love yourself 840 00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,439 Speaker 1: and and also um, I was like, would you rather 841 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: have wanted to stay in that? You know it's like that, 842 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: then then that's not a healthy life either, like just 843 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: to be with someone like and that's what I realized, Like, 844 00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: oh my god, like I have wanted to stay just 845 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: to be with something like, that's not a reason to 846 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: stay with someone. I think your brain has always known 847 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 1: that you've just had a hard time. So when you 848 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 1: give advice, and I think you've probably missed. You've given 849 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: several people advice that I'm like, I think you should 850 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,440 Speaker 1: take your own advice, you know what I mean. So 851 00:45:28,480 --> 00:45:30,400 Speaker 1: it's like, you know it and you want that for 852 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:34,080 Speaker 1: other people, but I think sometimes you're not feeling deserving 853 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:38,200 Speaker 1: of it takes over. Yeah, but self like, but I 854 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,440 Speaker 1: think you're you're self loving. I think you're starting to 855 00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:44,640 Speaker 1: really get it, and so it's even easier to give 856 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,879 Speaker 1: those people that advice. You're starting to actually believe what 857 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,600 Speaker 1: we've been telling you. Yeah, yeah, it's been yeah. But 858 00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,840 Speaker 1: and and I'm but I I'm just so excited what 859 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,440 Speaker 1: Amy is going. Where're gonna bring on this podcast too? 860 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:02,120 Speaker 1: Along the way with us? Um? Well, that was fun. 861 00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:06,040 Speaker 1: She was sweet. I love that she was just her energy. Yeah, 862 00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:10,040 Speaker 1: she was great. She'd be a fun therapist. She would 863 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,319 Speaker 1: have some wine with her something U Alright, guys, see 864 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 1: you next week.