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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease.

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Speaker 2: Call Mom Laurie Valo guilty. I'm Nancy Grace. This is

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Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at

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Speaker 2: Fox Nation. In series XEM one eleven, in the last Hours,

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Speaker 2: a jury hands down a verdict in the calt Mom

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Speaker 2: Laurie Valo case, on trial for multiple accounts, but most

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Speaker 2: notably for conspiracy to murder her own children. It's been

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Speaker 2: a long trial and a long time coming, but finally

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Speaker 2: a verdict.

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Speaker 3: We the jury Juliam Pendelton scorn to try the above

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Speaker 3: entitled action for our verdict unanimously. Answer the questions sumitted

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Speaker 3: to us as follows. Question number one in regards to

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Speaker 3: count one of the amended indictment is Laurie En Ballow,

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Speaker 3: not guilty or guilty of conspiracy to commit first free

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Speaker 3: murder of Tyler Ryan and grand theft by deception.

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Speaker 4: Answer guilty.

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Speaker 3: Question number two in regards to count two of the

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Speaker 3: amended invitement is Laurie Noreene Ballo not guilty or guilty

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Speaker 3: of first dree murder of KYLEE.

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Speaker 5: Ryan.

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Speaker 3: Answer guilty. Question number three in regards to count three

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Speaker 3: of the amended indictment is Lourie Lourene Vallow not guilty

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Speaker 3: or guilty of conspiracy to commit the first free murder

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Speaker 3: of Joshua Jackson Ballow and grand theft by deception. Answer

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Speaker 3: guilty question number four In regards to count four the

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Speaker 3: amended invitement is Laurie Noreene Vallow not guilty or guilty

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Speaker 3: of first three murder of Joshua Jackson Ballow. Served guilty.

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Speaker 3: Question number five in regards to count five of the

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Speaker 3: amended indictment is Lourierene Valo not guilty or guilty of

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Speaker 3: conspiracy to commit the first dream murder of camera Cammy Davell.

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Speaker 3: Answered guilty. Question number six. In regards to count seven

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Speaker 3: of the amended indictment, is lour Urine Valo not guilty

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Speaker 3: or guilty of grand depth answered guilty.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to East Iidaho News dot Com news director Nate.

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Speaker 6: Ayton, this jury deliberated less than I would say about

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Speaker 6: seven hours. They started yesterday around two fifteen. They took

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Speaker 6: a dinner break, they went home before seven. They were

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Speaker 6: back this morning at nine, and we got word around

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Speaker 6: eleven forty five that a verdict was coming down. I

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Speaker 6: have to tell you that a lot of people were

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Speaker 6: out here waiting in the courtroom. I stepped outside the

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Speaker 6: courtroom to go rub a bite to eat. I came back,

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Speaker 6: I made my way into the courtroom and someone pulled

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Speaker 6: me over and made I think something's happening. One of

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Speaker 6: the bailiffs walked out and went over to the clerk

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Speaker 6: and whispered something, and then she texted someone. And then

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Speaker 6: about two or three minutes later, the trial court administrator

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Speaker 6: walked in and said, ladies and gentlemen, we have a

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Speaker 6: verdict in Lori Valow's case. Guilty on all counts. She

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Speaker 6: has been found guilty for the murder of Tyler Ryan.

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Speaker 6: She has been found guilty for the murder of JJ Vallom.

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Speaker 6: She's been found guilty for the conspiracy charges on Tylee

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Speaker 6: and JJ, and the grand theft charge. I got to

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Speaker 6: tell you, the most moving moment was leaving the courthouse,

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Speaker 6: seeing all of the police officers lining the hallway giving

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Speaker 6: each other hugs.

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Speaker 4: This is a day they've been waiting.

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Speaker 2: For after a long trial and gruesome testimony and evidence.

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Speaker 6: What was her reaction, The same reaction she's kind of

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Speaker 6: had the entire trial.

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Speaker 4: She didn't show much emotion. She was standing.

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Speaker 6: The judge asked her to stand between her attorneys, John

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Speaker 6: Thomas and Jim Archibald, and the jury walked in and

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Speaker 6: they handed over the envelope to the judge.

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Speaker 4: He looked at what their verdict was.

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Speaker 6: He then asked the clerk to read it, and again

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Speaker 6: it was guilty on all counts.

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Speaker 2: What was the key evidence that put the nail on

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Speaker 2: the coffin for cult mom Lori Valo? First of all,

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Speaker 2: to the shock of many, the defense rests without putting

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Speaker 2: up a shred of evidence.

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Speaker 4: Listen, you're unner.

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Speaker 7: After consultation with my client, we don't believe the state

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Speaker 7: has proven its case, so the defense rests.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: You were just hearing Lori Valo's defense attorney speaking Nate Eating,

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Speaker 2: the news director East Idaho News dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Nate, not even one witness, nothing.

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Speaker 8: Not one witness. The big question was was Laurie going

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Speaker 8: to take the stand? And I'm told that right after

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Speaker 8: the prosecution rested, her attorneys asked for fifteen minutes in

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Speaker 8: the courtroom with just her so that they could make

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Speaker 8: that final decision. They were leaving it up to Laurie.

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Speaker 8: Everybody cleared the courtroom. About twenty minutes later, we all

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Speaker 8: went back in the courtroom, the judge turned it over

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Speaker 8: to the defense, and that is when the SoundBite you

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Speaker 8: just played, that's when her attorney said that Laurie has

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Speaker 8: been leading this defense team the entire time. Nancy, she

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Speaker 8: is an actively involved defendant. She is taking notes constantly

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Speaker 8: or doodling on her notebook. She is chatting in their

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Speaker 8: ears to the point that one day one of her

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Speaker 8: attorneys had to shush her and say, listen, I need

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Speaker 8: to listen to what the witness is saying. So this

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Speaker 8: was her decision, and they had no other witnesses who

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Speaker 8: could defend her.

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Speaker 2: You know, truer words were never spoken. Only a fool

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Speaker 2: hires himself as a lawyer. So you know that is

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Speaker 2: fraught with error to be steering the defense team with

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Speaker 2: me high profile lawyer joining.

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Speaker 1: Us out of Idaho that jurisdiction.

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Speaker 2: Tara is with US co owner Smith and Malik, former

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Speaker 2: state and federal prosecutor tur Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: How often do you see the defense rest without putting

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Speaker 2: up a shred of evidence.

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Speaker 5: Well, it certainly happens. But what's unusual about this particular

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Speaker 5: case is it seems to be going along with the

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Speaker 5: theme of how the defense has acted kind of throughout

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Speaker 5: this trial, given how serious it is, given the volume

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Speaker 5: of evidence the state has put on, I would have

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Speaker 5: anticipated something, some witness to be placed on the stand

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Speaker 5: by the defense team, but to have nothing reflects kind

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Speaker 5: of this backseat approach that the defense has been taking

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Speaker 5: I think throughout the trial. You know, even the cross

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Speaker 5: examination I didn't think was particularly effective when they were

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Speaker 5: doing that from witness to witness. So an unusual step

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Speaker 5: for this type of case.

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Speaker 2: For sure, Nate Eate joining me eastside her news dot

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Speaker 2: com Nate. It seems as if the defense sat back

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Speaker 2: and basically mocked the state's evidence.

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Speaker 8: Well, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: As if it meant nothing.

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Speaker 8: Here's the thing. They really could have gone after Chad

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Speaker 8: Daybell in this case, or Alex Cox or Laurie's dead brother.

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Speaker 8: They did not because Laurie would get upset if they

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Speaker 8: threw her husband under the bus. There was one day

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Speaker 8: where one of the attorneys really started to go into

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Speaker 8: the fact that before Laurie met Chad day Bell, she

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Speaker 8: didn't have these religious beliefs. She was religious, she liked

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Speaker 8: praying and whatnot, but all of these beliefs started to

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Speaker 8: be introduced to her in twenty eighteen, which is when

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Speaker 8: she met Chad and they really started to go down

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Speaker 8: this road and maybe kind of start to paint the

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Speaker 8: story for the jury. And when the attorney sat down,

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Speaker 8: Laurie was not pleased. She did not want Chad day

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Speaker 8: Bell being thrown under the bus. She did not want

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Speaker 8: her brother, who likely did all of these physical acts,

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Speaker 8: did it himself. She did not want them looking like

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Speaker 8: they did anything bad. And so that is why the

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Speaker 8: defense they I don't want to say they had their

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Speaker 8: hands tied, but they didn't do much. These are experienced

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Speaker 8: defense attorneys. One of her attorneys it's on twenty seven

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Speaker 8: or twenty eight murder cases. He's represented ten or eleven

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Speaker 8: people on death row. The other attorney helped exonerate a

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Speaker 8: man who served twenty years in prison for a crime

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Speaker 8: he didn't commit. These guys, you know, aren't fresh out

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Speaker 8: of school. They know what they're doing. But when you

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Speaker 8: have a client like Lori Valo, they weren't able to

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Speaker 8: do it.

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Speaker 9: Nancy, this is Michelle Joy. Can I offer comments on this?

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Speaker 1: Sure? So once go ahead on the Joy.

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Speaker 9: And I thought was interesting. I believe at one point

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Speaker 9: she was found incompetent to stand trial right and received

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Speaker 9: some mental health treatment. So you know, from a forensic

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Speaker 9: psychiatry perspective, we see that when you know someone's not

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Speaker 9: able to necessarily understand the nature of their charges or

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Speaker 9: is this with their own defense? Okay, that happens yoursues

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Speaker 9: treatment and was competent. But if she's almost like leading

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Speaker 9: the team, and you would think she would need a

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Speaker 9: hire bar to do that, it's almost like a pro

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Speaker 9: se defense in a way. So the idea that this

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Speaker 9: woman that we're all seeing is kind of, you know,

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Speaker 9: delusional at some level, having we'll get into what this

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Speaker 9: differential is, but that she was incompetent to stand child,

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Speaker 9: receive treatment, and is now somehow leading the defense team

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Speaker 9: is even odder and more surprising to me.

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Speaker 2: You're hearing doctor Michelle Joy Forensance, clinical academic psychiatrist and

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Speaker 2: author of and illustrated history of the insanity defense, Nate Eaton,

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Speaker 2: could you explain really the rationale behind the inconfidency decision.

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Speaker 2: It's not so much that she doesn't understand what's going

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Speaker 2: on around her. She does understand really well. She knew

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Speaker 2: to lie to police about whereabout some of her children

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Speaker 2: after they were murdered Nate Eaton. She knew to take

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Speaker 2: off to Hawaii where you pursued her and found her

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Speaker 2: and questioned her. She played the system from the get go,

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Speaker 2: played all of her relatives, her husband, her husband's her children,

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Speaker 2: her brother, law enforcement, the Woodcocks. Everyone got played by

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Speaker 2: Laurie Vallo. The incompetency ruling, I believe was because she

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Speaker 2: truly believes that people can be zombies, zombies light or dark,

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Speaker 2: and that the only way you can cure them of

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Speaker 2: their zombie like state is to kill them. That is

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Speaker 2: where the incompetence ruling originated, not because she could not

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Speaker 2: understand what her lawyers were telling her.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, exactly, Well, in Idaho, you just have to fit

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Speaker 8: two rules. One you have to understand your charges and

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Speaker 8: two assists in your defense. Laurie Valo was clearly assisting

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Speaker 8: in her defense to the detriment often of her attorneys,

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Speaker 8: and she understood the charges. And you mentioned all of

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Speaker 8: the betrayal of all of those people. Well, we saw

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Speaker 8: during court they went through one hundred and fifty fou

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Speaker 8: in the items on Lourie's iCloud accounts, and there's a

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Speaker 8: lot happening behind the scenes and text messages with Chad

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Speaker 8: Dabell when both of their spouses are still alive. They

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Speaker 8: clearly understood to change the life insurance policies. They clearly

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Speaker 8: understood that when she was not the one million dollar beneficiary,

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Speaker 8: how upset they were, But don't worry, She's still going

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Speaker 8: to get the six thousand a month from Social Security.

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Speaker 8: So they understood that they needed to finance the way

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Speaker 8: to live.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just stop, wait a minute.

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking about how Tiley and JJ were a

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Speaker 2: murdered not to mention Tammy Dabell. And to this day,

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Speaker 2: I believe Joseph Ryan and I also believe that it's

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Speaker 2: just not a coincidence that Alex Cox just killed over

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Speaker 2: dead and we've got two COD causes of death for him.

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Speaker 1: That's total BS technical legal term. I mean. Jesscott Morgan

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Speaker 1: is with me.

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Speaker 2: Death Investigator, has literally investigated over a thousand death cases.

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Speaker 2: He's Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath

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Speaker 2: My Feet on Amazon and Star Body Bags with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan podcast Joe Scott. How can one person have

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Speaker 2: two CODs? Because that is what happened with Alex Cox.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, isn't that something that he would. And you know,

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Speaker 7: I begin to think about Alex in you know, in

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Speaker 7: the broader sense relative to his hand things, his hand

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Speaker 7: on the wheel, if you will, or let me rephrase

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Speaker 7: that Laurie's hand on his shoulder directing him, because I

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Speaker 7: think that that's probably what had occurred. I don't, you know,

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Speaker 7: I concur with the level of perception here. I don't

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Speaker 7: think Alex was the sharpest tool in the shed, either

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Speaker 7: easily manipulated, directed that sort of thing. And what really

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Speaker 7: has come to mind for me after all these years

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Speaker 7: that we've been covering this case is the star witness

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Speaker 7: for me, at least from a forensic standpoint, is JJ

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Speaker 7: It's almost like he was conjured up in the courtroom,

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Speaker 7: that he breathed life into this case from from the grave,

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Speaker 7: in the sense that the most powerful thing for me

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Speaker 7: was that blonde hair. Nancy, and I've caught some flak

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Speaker 7: relative to you know, people saying, you know, all the

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Speaker 7: things that they normally say relative to well, you know.

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Speaker 2: You know what, Joe Scott, before you say another word.

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Speaker 2: I know you're a renowned death investigator, but here's a

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Speaker 2: little legal knowledge for you. You're catching a lot of

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Speaker 2: flak screw them on the horse they rode in on.

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Speaker 1: Ok So just keep that in mind.

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Speaker 7: Catching reality. The reality is this. You know, everybody has

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Speaker 7: wanted to tie, has wanted to tie Lorie Valow to

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Speaker 7: these deaths. And that big tie back for me was

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Speaker 7: that hair, Nancy. It spoke volumes, and people said, well,

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Speaker 7: you'd expect to find I.

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Speaker 2: Got to explain to everybody that doesn't know about the

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Speaker 2: long blonde hair that was found on JJ's body and

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Speaker 2: tape around him and he was wrapped up like he

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Speaker 2: was her medically sealed like a mummy.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and you said a mouthful there because of this.

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Speaker 7: It's one thing to wrap a body, Okay, but you're

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Speaker 7: actually talking about with this tape in the plastic bags,

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Speaker 7: that's a facilitator of death. That's a modality. So her

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Speaker 7: hair was actually found in dwelling the physical presence.

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Speaker 2: Well, hold on, you know when you just throw out

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Speaker 2: terms like that, when you say the tape, the taping

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Speaker 2: of little JJ's body, seven year old JJ's was a facilitator, yes,

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Speaker 2: the homicide. In other words, the tape itself like ken

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Speaker 2: Top mom Casey Anthony Kelly with tape wrapped around her

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Speaker 2: mouth and her nose that facilitated or aided the death.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, because we're talking about kind of very in non

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Speaker 7: specific terms. Remember, the pathologists could not absolutely positively say

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Speaker 7: with you know that this is a strangulation or this

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Speaker 7: is a suffocation. But what we do know is that

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Speaker 7: their opinion is that this was an asphixialed death. Well,

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Speaker 7: how was the asphixial death more than likely brought about?

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Speaker 7: Well it was visa v This plastic bag and this

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Speaker 7: tape and her hair is connected to it, Nancy. It's

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Speaker 7: not just like it was picked up off the floors.

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Speaker 7: You know. They were trying to neatly, as you said,

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Speaker 7: prometically seal his little body. No, this is part of

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Speaker 7: the facilitation of this act, and that, to me is

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Speaker 7: the most powerful thing here, this tie back. And I

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Speaker 7: think that Alex had something to do with it. I'll

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Speaker 7: never forget. I'll never forget, Nate, talking about many months ago.

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Speaker 7: You know, that last kind of image that everybody has

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Speaker 7: in their mind, where JJ is up on Alex's shoulder.

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Speaker 7: That's really the last time that we have any kind

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Speaker 7: of physical evidence of that.

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Speaker 2: In his pj's and socks exactly what he was wearing

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Speaker 2: when his body was found hey, Nate Eaton, joining US

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Speaker 2: news director Easidaho News dot Com on the story from

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Speaker 2: the very beginning, pursuing Coltman Laurie Value all the way

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Speaker 2: to Hawaii for answers. Nate describe for those that are

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Speaker 2: not familiar with every nuance of this case, where the

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Speaker 2: hair was found, where Lori Valo's hair was found, specifically.

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Speaker 8: So the hair was found on a piece of duct

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Speaker 8: tape that was wrapped around the plastic that was wrapped

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Speaker 8: around JJ's body. So it wasn't on his pj's, that

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Speaker 8: wasn't on his actual body, but it was done after

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Speaker 8: he was wrapped up and killed, and this was the plastic.

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Speaker 2: That's significant, very significant, Nate Eaton, because if her hair

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Speaker 2: was on his pj's, that could be oh well, it

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Speaker 2: was on there from the washer dryer.

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Speaker 1: It was on there because he hugged her.

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Speaker 2: But being on the tape puts her there when his

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Speaker 2: body is.

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Speaker 1: Being taped up like a mummy.

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Speaker 2: That's a whole Another scenario, was it DNA match to her?

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Speaker 1: Nate Eaton, it was.

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Speaker 8: They said it was one and I think seventy five

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Speaker 8: octillion or something. Yes, populations that it was her, and

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Speaker 8: they tested it against some They tested against Tylee and

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Speaker 8: Melanie Gibb, who was at the home the last time

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Speaker 8: JJ was found, just to be sure it wasn't hers,

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Speaker 8: and it came back Laurie there and Natthew. Remember there

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Speaker 8: were some other DNA tests that came back a thumb

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Speaker 8: print and a palm print, but those matched Alex Cox.

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Speaker 8: So this was the one piece of Lorie Valor that

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Speaker 8: was actually you know, there at the scene, there on

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Speaker 8: the dead body, and that that might be the one

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Speaker 8: question the jury has. The conspiracy I think has been proven.

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Speaker 8: We know that the grand sets she was using her

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Speaker 8: kid's money, but did she actually commit the murders? That

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Speaker 8: might be the one hang up that the jury has

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Speaker 8: of Well, we think her brother did it, how did

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Speaker 8: she do it if there was no tie to her?

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Speaker 8: And for Tylie, there's nothing less of Tyley to really

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Speaker 8: test other than her bones, which they compared to tools

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Speaker 8: to find out what was there, and you know, pieces

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Speaker 8: of her liver and body parts, and they weren't able

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Speaker 8: to find any DNA on those.

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Speaker 1: So correct me if I'm wrong, night Eton.

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Speaker 2: But after the two children are killed presumably missing, isn't

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Speaker 2: called mom Laurie vallis still talking about how much money

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Speaker 2: she's going to make off of them from their Social Security.

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Speaker 8: Sure and then they immediately moved on to Tammy because

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Speaker 8: she died a month later, and that nice. Let me

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Speaker 8: tell you one more thing, Nancy. The same day, the

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Speaker 8: same day that Kylie dies and is being buried on

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Speaker 8: Chad Davell's property, that is the date that Chad Davell

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Speaker 8: and Laurie and Tammy Gabel signed a new life insurance

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Speaker 8: policy that with the maximum amount allowed on the policy.

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Speaker 8: Tammy Dabel went from the minimum of ten thousand a

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Speaker 8: year to the maximum at her job. As Kylie Ryan

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Speaker 8: is being buried on the property.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. For those of you just

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Speaker 2: joining us, guilty call Mom. Laurie Valo just found guilty

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Speaker 2: by a jury off her peers after a long trial.

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Speaker 2: Some of the most powerful evidence in the courtroom highlighted

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Speaker 2: in closing arguments, some of the most powerful evidence this

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Speaker 2: jury has heard. Take a listen to Prosecutor Rob Wood

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Speaker 2: questioning doctor gar Warren.

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Speaker 10: Have you formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of

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Speaker 10: death of JJ Ballow?

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Speaker 4: I have what was that I determined the cause of

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Speaker 4: death to be.

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Speaker 11: Asphyxia by a plastic bag over the head and duct

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Speaker 11: tape covered in the mouth. And then there's another segment

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Speaker 11: that's other significant conditions I put bound with duct tape,

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Speaker 11: bruising to the arms, an abrasion to the neck, But

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Speaker 11: ultimately the cause of death was asphyxia by plastic bag

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Speaker 11: over the head and duct tape over the mouth.

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Speaker 2: Jo Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,

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Speaker 2: Joe Scott, I actually had a case where the coeod

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Speaker 2: cause of death was asphyxia with one of those clear

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Speaker 2: plastic laundry bags from dry cleaning type bag that they

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Speaker 2: put over the clothing. One of those, and that is

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Speaker 2: a brutal, awful cause of death in that case. That

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Speaker 2: was why my first murder case. In the autopsy photo,

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Speaker 2: the victim Mary had bits of the plastic up all

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Speaker 2: in her nose and around her mouth where they had

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Speaker 2: to pick it off at the medical examiner's office. She

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Speaker 2: was trying so hard to breathe and she would breathe

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Speaker 2: in the plastic. That's what happened to seven year old JJ.

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Speaker 7: Yep, you're absolutely right, and just understand this is as

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Speaker 7: there's an awareness on his part there would have been,

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Speaker 7: even if they found anything in his system that kind

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Speaker 7: of numbed him, like any kind of substance, just at

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Speaker 7: a primal level, Nancy, He's beginning to rebreathe his own air.

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Speaker 7: Any of us have ever been closed in in kind

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Speaker 7: of a tight space, and the air gets very warm,

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Speaker 7: that sort of thing. You're rebreathing carbon dioxide, which obviously

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Speaker 7: is incompatible with life. And then all of a sudden

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Speaker 7: you begin to get lightheaded. Your promin instinct kicks in,

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Speaker 7: and normally we would reach up to our head, right,

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Speaker 7: just envision this, just for a moment, if you will.

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Speaker 7: We would reach up to our head to try to

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Speaker 7: free ourselves. But guess what, he couldn't you know why,

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Speaker 7: because his hands were bound. So he's struggling all along.

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Speaker 7: He can't free himself with his hands, can't do it

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Speaker 7: of his own accord, and he's bound. He has this

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Speaker 7: thing wrapped around his head and covering his mouth. Well,

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Speaker 7: this was, in the truest sense, this was a kill

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Speaker 7: shot that they planned. They knew that this was inescapable,

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Speaker 7: that there's no way he could recover from this. They

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Speaker 7: were bound and determined, and to think about it, Nancy,

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Speaker 7: this in no way on any is this merciful death.

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Speaker 7: This is as horrible as it can possibly get.

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Speaker 2: Horrible, horrible, horrible death, horrible death. And to you, Nate Eaton, now,

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Speaker 2: before I go to Robin drink joining us former FBI

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Speaker 2: special agent behavior expert, Nate Eaton, I want you to

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Speaker 2: set it up for Robin's answer, whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: As call Mom.

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Speaker 2: Laurie Valo is sitting in court and she's hearing what

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Speaker 2: you just heard Joe Scott Morgan describe the death of

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Speaker 2: JJ and not only trying to breathe through the plastic bag,

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Speaker 2: bruising on the arms where they held him while he died,

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Speaker 2: held him back, held him down so he couldn't take

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Speaker 2: that bag off his face, abrasions to the neck. She

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Speaker 2: sat there in court she heard that.

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Speaker 8: What was her reaction, It was similar to all the

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Speaker 8: other reactions she's had, Nancy, she didn't show much emotion.

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Speaker 8: She looked at the witness. He whispered to her attorney.

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Speaker 8: She wrote in her notebook. That's been the consistent demeanor

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Speaker 8: through the past six weeks. There are many days she's smiling,

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Speaker 8: she's laughing, she's rolling her eyes. It is the behavior

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Speaker 8: we've seen from Lori Ballos since the moment I saw

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Speaker 8: her in Hawaii, not much has change.

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Speaker 2: Joining me, Robin Drake, who I just mentioned, behavior expert,

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Speaker 2: former FBI Special Agent, chief of FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program,

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Speaker 2: and the author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI

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Speaker 2: agent's manual for behavior prediction, and you can find him

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Speaker 2: at people formula dot com.

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Speaker 1: Robin Drake, it's a real honor to have you on

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Speaker 1: with us.

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Speaker 2: I wanted you to hear the background before I ask

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Speaker 2: you what called Mamlauri Valo's behavior in court means to you, smiling, laughing,

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Speaker 2: rolling her eyes, whispering back and for to her lawyers.

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Speaker 2: You know how, Imagine a lady crossing her legs and

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Speaker 2: kicking her foot back and forth, up and down. That's

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Speaker 2: called man. Laura Vala can't do it too much because

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Speaker 2: she shackled. But what does her behavior in court tell you,

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Speaker 2: Robin Drake, You know.

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Speaker 8: First and foremost, without a doubt, you don't have to

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Speaker 8: be a trained licensed clinician to understand what psychopathy looks like.

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Speaker 8: Psychopaths have no empathy, no connection. And we're talking about

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Speaker 8: this before. I don't even think she has an internal

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Speaker 8: voice because she's impure creditor that has no remorse for

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Speaker 8: anything she does. And I will say, out of all

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Speaker 8: the horrendous things we've seen and heard, I'm at least

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Speaker 8: grateful that she led her own defense team, because she's

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Speaker 8: her own undoing.

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Speaker 2: You know when you said internal monologue, how psychopaths do

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Speaker 2: not have an internal monologue? If you talk to yourself, ever,

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Speaker 2: don't worry, it's not you.

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Speaker 1: My daughter asked me that, and I'm like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that.

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Speaker 2: I think and talk in my head when I'm going

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Speaker 2: about my day.

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Speaker 1: But then I.

436
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 2: Realized that I do. So I compare it to something

437
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 2: like a shark. The shark is not trolling through the

438
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 2: water silently looking for its next victim and thinking, Wow,

439
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 2: I really feel bad about this, but I'm going to

440
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 2: have to eat that school of fish for no, that's

441
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 2: not happening. Or a snake doesn't think before it strikes.

442
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,719
Speaker 2: That's what we're talking about.

443
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 8: The way I see it, Drake, Yep, you know we

444
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 8: can see this and everything she's absolutely done, The way

445
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 8: she handles herself in the courtroom, the way people around

446
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 8: her just drop off. And she does it for money.

447
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 8: It's passion, so obvious. And when she when the defense

448
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 8: rested yesterday saying that they didn't prove their case, I

449
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 8: was like, thank God, because it was so evident when

450
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 8: she was in so many notes, Like you said, she's

451
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,480
Speaker 8: taken information in the moment, making decisions in the moment.

452
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,440
Speaker 8: I don't. And when they served her papers in Hawaii

453
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 8: and we looked at that tape, she looked like it

454
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 8: wasn't even cognating with her, because that would require an

455
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 8: internal voice to actually think about what's going on. And

456
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 8: she's incompatible with her life.

457
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 2: That's why she's fortatious in the courtroom, Nate Ayton. The

458
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 2: rolling the eyes, the giggling, the smiling, the tossing the hair,

459
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: the whispering to counsel.

460
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 8: She's you know that, It's almost as if Laurie sees

461
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 8: herself as on a completely different plane, a completely different universe.

462
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 8: She probably believes she does, and the world, according to

463
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 8: you know what I understand, the world did not deserve

464
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 8: to hear from her. That was her thought. But I

465
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 8: will say the defense was smart in a way that

466
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 8: earlier on in the trial they were able to get

467
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 8: in a podcast of Laurie uh one that she recorded

468
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 8: about a year and a half ago with her front

469
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 8: well three years now, where you hear Laurie talk about

470
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 8: how she has seen Jesus and she has called to

471
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 8: do all of these wonderful, mighty things for the world.

472
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 8: And so the defense was able to get in a

473
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 8: good forty minutes of that podcast without any cross examination

474
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 8: because they didn't have to put Laurie on the stand.

475
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 8: They were able to get in a few phone calls

476
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 8: that showed Laurie talking with her son Colby and her

477
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 8: sister Summer, and you were able to see where Laurie's

478
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 8: head was that right after the bodies were found at

479
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 8: her children, So the defense didn't have ways to get

480
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 8: things in so the jury could hear that clearly, this

481
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 8: woman is not thinking like the rest of us think

482
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 8: without having to put her on the stand and open

483
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 8: her up to cross examination, although I would have loved

484
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 8: to hear her on the stand.

485
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: Tara Malik joining us high profile lawyer out of that

486
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: jurisdiction Idaho, Tar, that was good thinking on the part

487
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 2: of the defense. It's very difficult to get the voice

488
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: of your client on the stand in front of the

489
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 2: jury without forcing them on the stand and undergoing cross examination.

490
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:04,240
Speaker 2: But they did that very very wisely, I believe, with

491
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 2: those particular witnesses on the stand. Therefore they're not really

492
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 2: introducing anything because you know, in a lot of your stations,

493
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: once the defense introduces any evidence, they lose final closing argument.

494
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: But they introduced those or they.

495
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 2: Used those phone conversations to show and demonstrate cult mom's

496
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 2: bizarre beliefs.

497
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it is hard, you know, it's the

498
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 5: defense can't put on through other people, generally the statements

499
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 5: of the defendant. It's your say and not allowed. And

500
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 5: while the prosecution can, you know, there are ways sometimes

501
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: like you saw in this case, where they can sneak

502
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 5: in and it really is you have to be delicate

503
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 5: about the way that you do it. But get in

504
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 5: that evidence in another way, and they were. They put

505
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 5: on some evidence of her voice, her religious beliefs, and

506
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 5: they were able to get that in there. Now the

507
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 5: question is, you know, is that enough for these jurors?

508
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 5: Is that going to satisfy them? And it's a circumstantial case,

509
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 5: you know, and the state does have the burden, it's

510
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 5: a high burden, and they had to lay brick by brick,

511
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 5: you know, all this circumstantial evidence to convince this jury,

512
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 5: you know, beyond a reasonable doubt that Laurie was involved

513
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 5: in these murders. And the evidence here is compelling, and

514
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 5: I think, you know, I personally think that it was

515
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 5: a mistake for the defense not to put on any

516
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: sort of defense. And I don't think even if it's

517
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: not Laurie that they put on the stand, you know,

518
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 5: it is a significant risk to have that much, you know,

519
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 5: bravado and say, well, you know, the state just hasn't

520
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 5: proved anything here at all, and we're not putting anything

521
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 5: on and then, you know, make a motion for acquittal

522
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: under rule twenty nine, which is based it has improved

523
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 5: their burdens, right, you know, you decided it shouldn't even

524
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 5: go as far as the jury.

525
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,720
Speaker 2: Guys, we heard testimony, the most powerful testimony about little

526
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: JJ's death.

527
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: What about Tyley?

528
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 10: Listen, doctor one, based on your autopsy of Tydy Ryan

529
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 10: and based upon your education, training and experience, have you

530
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 10: formed an expert opinion concerning the cause of death of

531
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 10: Tidy Ryan? Yes, I what is that cause of death?

532
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 11: I determine the cause of death to be homicide by

533
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 11: unspecified means.

534
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, her body so mutilated, so dismembered,

535
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: so mistreated, nothing left but a bucket of human tissue

536
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 2: can determine a cod cause of death on ten girl

537
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: Tilely Scott Morgan, death investigator, what about it?

538
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 7: Yeah, the level of brutality is just amazing here. You

539
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 7: can't because of so much destruction relative to fire and

540
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 7: also these attempts to dismember her or you know, break

541
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 7: her body apart, which I think is actually probably what

542
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 7: happened in this case. Is it goes beyond anything that

543
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 7: most of us can imagine. And if I could just

544
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 7: interject this just for a second, and this is only

545
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 7: my opinion, you know, there was a lot made. I

546
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 7: think of the tool marks that were kind of focused

547
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 7: there in her midsection, along the pelvic area. They had

548
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 7: mentioned the tailbone at one point in time, Nancy. I

549
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 7: think that there's a high probability they may have tried

550
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 7: to incinerate her body in total, in whole, without much

551
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 7: effort to dismember her. Think that they got very frustrated

552
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 7: and as they were attempting to render her body down

553
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 7: by fire, somebody went out there, maybe Alex Cox, and

554
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 7: used a shovel, this pickaxe or whatever it was to

555
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 7: try to break her body apart in the fire, and

556
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 7: that's what you're seeing out there with these tool marks.

557
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 7: It was, you know, and we'll never know. We'll never know,

558
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 7: you know, how she actually came to her end. But

559
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 7: she was treated completely different than JJ completely. His body

560
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 7: was kind of memorialized and it was set apart, you know, tily.

561
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 7: She's placed in an area where they're burying dead animals,

562
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 7: and then they're so disrespectful to her remains. I think

563
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 7: a lot can be read into that. But at the

564
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 7: end of the day, they failed miserably to try to

565
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 7: render her completely gone, because many people that try to

566
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 7: do this don't realize how much work has to go

567
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 7: into this, to tending a fire to try to render

568
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 7: her down a body eighteen hundred degrees in a crematory, nancy,

569
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 7: and that's with a constant fuel supply of natural gas.

570
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 7: They didn't have it all.

571
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: It makes me think of the case of.

572
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:14,280
Speaker 2: Teresa Hallbach and Stephen Avery, who became a media darling

573
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: in making a murderer, many people thinking that he's innocent.

574
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 2: He stood over a fire pit for nearly twenty four

575
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 2: hours through the night, trying to burn the body of

576
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 2: Teresa hallback.

577
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 1: That's how long it takes.

578
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 2: And the rendering like you do in a slaughter house

579
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 2: to Tilie's body is just unspeakable. And I wonder if,

580
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 2: based on the brutality of the way they dismembered her

581
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 2: and treated her body, how she was murdered, and what

582
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: brutality was used in that act, And of course the

583
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 2: jury became acquainted with a new character. Take those an

584
00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 2: hour cut for one four. This is Douglas Hart FBI

585
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 2: Special Agent.

586
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 12: Line twenty six fifty six from Chad Day Bell to Lorivallo.

587
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 12: You are so adorable, beautiful, wonderful, heavenly, luscious and angelic,

588
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 12: so many divine attributes rolled into one dynamic, desirable package.

589
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 12: I want you even more desperately than you want me.

590
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:27,240
Speaker 12: Line twenty six twenty two from Chad Day Bell to Lorivalo.

591
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 12: Just grab me by the storm and I will follow

592
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 12: you to the ends of the universe. Line twenty six

593
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,359
Speaker 12: zero eight from Lorivalo to Chad day Bell. When might

594
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 12: that be? Line twenty six oh seven from Chad Day

595
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 12: Bell to Lorivallo Wednesday evening and then repeatedly and gloriously

596
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 12: until Friday.

597
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: Oh, that's a lot of poetic phraseology to describe jumping

598
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: in the sack together.

599
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 1: So you may wonder who is storm?

600
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 7: Uh?

601
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: Take those now our cut for one six A.

602
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,800
Speaker 13: Are you aware of what some of the phrase grabbed

603
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 13: me by the storm and I will follow you to

604
00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 13: the ends of the earth.

605
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 4: Meant objection, calls for speculation? Thank you?

606
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 12: Yes, I'm aware?

607
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 4: Okay?

608
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: What did that mean?

609
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 12: The word storm is the name they had given to

610
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 12: Chad day Bell's penis.

611
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 13: Okay, and so this was an anticipation of getting together

612
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 13: with each other for sexual purposes, yes, okay. And at

613
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 13: this time Chad Dabell was he still married to Tammy?

614
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 8: Yes?

615
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 13: How far from Charles Vallow's death was that?

616
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 12: This is seven days after Charles Vallow's.

617
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 2: Death Storm Storm, with the backdrop of the murders of

618
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: seven year old JJ and teen girl Tyleie.

619
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 1: I got to hear the called.

620
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 2: Mom Laurie Valo gave a pet name to the prophet

621
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: Chad Dabel's penis, Nate Ayton. Did I hear somebody start

622
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 2: coughing in the middle of that testimony?

623
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: I did. Somebody was suppressing a laugh slash cough.

624
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 8: You may have heard, yeah, you I was going to

625
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 8: say you may have heard coughing laughter. There was actually

626
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 8: gasps from the people sitting behind me in the row

627
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 8: because we went on to hear that storm was talked

628
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 8: about more than once in the text messages, including the

629
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 8: morning after Tammy dave Bell died. And that's when Chad

630
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 8: also sends a message to Laurie saying I need he

631
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 8: You know, he called her many names. He called her

632
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 8: Lily and Elena. He said after Tammy Davebell died just

633
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 8: hours later. Everybody thinks I'm sad, but they don't know

634
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 8: the real reason I'm sad. It's because he missed her.

635
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 8: And then he said, I need to I look forward

636
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 8: to getting on the Lily diet, strengthen my ab get Tanner,

637
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,759
Speaker 8: get Centner. It can't come soon enough. So clearly his

638
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 8: spouse is dead and people are mourning her loss. He

639
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 8: was not thinking about that.

640
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: Okay, where does storm his penis enter into that conversation.

641
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 8: Well, that's probably what he was thinking. Probably all he

642
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 8: was thinking about is what I meant to say, Nancy,

643
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 8: that is, making sure that he and Laurie could cook

644
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 8: up a storm or something.

645
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, wait, you just told me something I didn't

646
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 2: know and I appreciate that, Nate E. Now I want

647
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:39,800
Speaker 2: to go to Robin Drake, behavior expert, former FBI special

648
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: agent and author of Sizing People Up. Robin So, Tammy

649
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: Day Bell has only been dead asphyxiated, I might add,

650
00:38:56,200 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: for a few hours, and you have the profit Chad

651
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 2: da Bell talking about I want to go get in

652
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 2: the sun and get a tan and get sin.

653
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 8: You know.

654
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: I'm I want to be with you can't come soon enough.

655
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: Talking about his penis, everybody thinks I'm upset over Tammy.

656
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: That's not true.

657
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: Okay, I don't guess I have to be an FBI

658
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 2: special agent and behavior expert, and behavior expert and behavioral

659
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: analysis figure that out. But I would like to hear

660
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 2: your expert analysis.

661
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 8: Well, you don't have to be an expert at this one.

662
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 8: These are two individuals that have high demands and needs

663
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 8: for grandiosity, and they're feeding into it for each other,

664
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 8: you know, and with.

665
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 2: Chad, hey, slow down, man, I got to I want

666
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 2: to hear every word.

667
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 1: What did you say about grandiosity?

668
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, so both these individuals have a high high need

669
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 8: for grandiosity and that's a science psychopathy, and they're feeding

670
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 8: into it with each other. And the way they treat

671
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 8: everyone else in their lives, especially their children, as and

672
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 8: we just went through the horrific part of it. And

673
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 8: for those that think that and claim that she was

674
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 8: such a good mother, think about this instead. He objectified

675
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 8: people in her life as objects, like a shiny piece

676
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 8: of jewelry that made her look good until it no

677
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 8: longer did, and then she discarded it. And same thing

678
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 8: with both of these individuals. They're feeding into each other's

679
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 8: needs for the sense of grandiosophy greatness, and they just

680
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 8: keep feeding each other into it, and they exclude everyone

681
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,400
Speaker 8: else because everyone else to them is just merely an

682
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 8: object in their lives to be discarded.

683
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: The timing of these texts and these conversations between them

684
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: is very, very important. I want you to take a

685
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: listen to our cut for one eight our friends at

686
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 2: Fox ten, line.

687
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,640
Speaker 12: Twenty three seventy four from Lori Vala to Chad Dave Bell.

688
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:58,399
Speaker 12: It was great. I feel free again. I love you

689
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 12: more than ever and can't wait to be with you forever.

690
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 14: Hart told the court that record showed Valo and da

691
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 14: Bell attended the Church of Jesus Christ Latter day Saints

692
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 14: in Gilbert as early as November of twenty eighteen, several

693
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 14: months before Valo's fourth husband, Charles was shot and killed

694
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 14: and nearly a year before Davell's wife, Tammy died.

695
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: And the timing and the money motive were two very

696
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: critical components of the state's case. Take a listen to

697
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: hour cut four to two four. This is a former

698
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: FBI special agent Douglas Hart.

699
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 12: Charles Valo had changed the beneficiary of his life insurance

700
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 12: from Louris Valo to another individual. I included this because

701
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 12: it was pertinent in terms of potential financial motives in

702
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 12: this case.

703
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 13: If you could, starting with the lines on page seventeen,

704
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 13: could you take a look at those and read those

705
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 13: into the record.

706
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 12: Yes, Line twenty seven zero six from Lorii Valo to

707
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 12: Chad Dabell. I just got the letter from the insurance

708
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 12: company saying that I am not the beneficiary. It is

709
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 12: a spear through my heart. Who do you think he

710
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 12: changed it to.

711
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 2: They're talking about Lori Valo no longer being the insurance beneficiary.

712
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 2: Charles Valo was afraid for his own life and had

713
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: the beneficiary changed from her.

714
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: Take listen to four two seven.

715
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 12: Line twenty seven hundred from Chad day Bell to Lori Valo,

716
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 12: it will be interesting if it got changed after he

717
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 12: had two bullets in his chest.

718
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: Incredible, they're saying, whoa, maybe we can beat this life

719
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 2: insurance policy change if we can improve after he had

720
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: two bullets in his chest.

721
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 1: It was changed, but they were wrong.

722
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: Value changed in life insurance before they murdered him. And

723
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 2: last during all of this, called Mam Lauri Valo was

724
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: trying to think about her monthly income off of her

725
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: dead children.

726
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,600
Speaker 1: Listen to four two eight same witness.

727
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,879
Speaker 12: Line twenty six eighty seven from Lori Valo to Chad

728
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 12: davel So I talked to the insurance company. He changed

729
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 12: it in March, so it was probably ned before we

730
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 12: got rid of him. They can't tell me to who,

731
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 12: of course, but it's done. I'll still get the four

732
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 12: thousand a month from SS.

733
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: You know Nate Ayton money motive.

734
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: It's so clear and as far as Tammy day Bill goes,

735
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,359
Speaker 2: it's all about getting her life insurance policy. That's why

736
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 2: he insisted it was a natural cause of death and

737
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 2: the money that they would make off the two dead children.

738
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was one witness who said that they had

739
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 8: even found research that Laurie had done about life insurance

740
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 8: policies on kids. There was no sign that Laurie ever

741
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 8: took out policies on that, but research was done on

742
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 8: her iCloud account that showed that. And she was still

743
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 8: receiving money from the kids because she got money from

744
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 8: JJ because his dad, Charles was killed, so they got

745
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:59,440
Speaker 8: money for that. She got money from Tylie because Tylie's

746
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 8: dad died, Joseph Ryan. And then she was receiving money

747
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 8: because she was a single mom whose spouse had died,

748
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 8: and they said that she would receive that money as

749
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 8: long as she didn't get remarried. Oh, by the way,

750
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 8: I know you'll be shocked to hear this, Nancy. When

751
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 8: she married Tad Davell, she did not let the Social

752
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 8: Security Office know that, so she continued to receive money.

753
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 6: She was not sentenced today. That will happen in about

754
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 6: two to three months. This is an extensive case, so

755
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 6: Judge Boyce said that there might need a little bit

756
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 6: more time needed. So we're looking probably mid August when

757
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 6: that sentence will and she could face up to life

758
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 6: in prison on several of the counts. On the conspiracy

759
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 6: charges and the murder charges, she could go away for life.

760
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: Just as delayed but not denied. Call Mam Laurie Valo guilty.

761
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: Goodbye friend,