1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production I heart Radio. 2 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: You actually were the guy who inspired us to do 3 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: animated logos. Do you remember this? I said, well, what 4 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: are we going to do in between the videos and 5 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: the VJs that are we gonna do jingles? And he went, oh, no, 6 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: we can't do jingles? And I said, what do we do? 7 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,639 Speaker 1: He said, how about this? Imagine it's a picture of 8 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: a cow. I said, yeah, he said, and all of 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: a sudden, an X comes down and cuts the cow's 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: head off and it falls to the ground and you 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: see the veins coming out and the blood spurting out, 12 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: and the cow vomits, and in the vomit is the logo. 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: I went, Oh, my god, I can do anything I want. Hi, 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Titman, and welcome to Math and Magic. Stories 15 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: from the Frontiers and Marketing and we're doing something special 16 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: on today's episode. One of the pivotal moments of my 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: life was leading the team that created MTV. I've had 18 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: the good fortin of having all the co founders of 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: MTV on this podcast with me and in each of 20 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 1: the interviews, whether it was chatting with Judie Grath and 21 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: Fred Cyber, John Sykes or Yarramon and of course Tom Freston. 22 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: We've always spent a little time talking about MTV, So 23 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: what we wanted to do for you today was pulled 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 1: together those stories for the first time ever. Tell the 25 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 1: story at the beginning of MTV through the eyes of 26 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: people who were actually in the room when it happened, 27 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: because all of us who are really in the room 28 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: often laugh about how far off other people's accounts can be. 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: So let me set the stage. It's the beginning of 30 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: the eighties. Cable TV was still a crazy idea. Most 31 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: business executives and most of America didn't understand it or 32 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: believe in how TV was about to change. And here 33 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: comes this pack of twenty year old with an attitude. 34 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,120 Speaker 1: None of us had ever done the jobs before. All 35 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: we knew is we've grown up with rock and roll 36 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: and we've grown up with TV, and the two had 37 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: never successfully come together. We thought it had always failed 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: because TV people always wanted to try and make music 39 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: at the TV form a story. We intended to make 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: TV at the music form mood and emotion. MTV was 41 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: going to be about attitude and something people wanted to join. 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: We were on a mission. So when I hearts owned 43 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: John Sykes at the time, a twenty four year old 44 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: record executive at CBS Records in Chicago heard what we 45 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: were up to. Well, he wanted in, so let's talk 46 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: about MTV. It's the word gets out that we're working 47 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 1: on this do music channel. How do you hear about it? 48 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: What does it mean to you? And how on earth 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: did you really get connected to us to get on 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: that original team. I grew up with three things in 51 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: my life. Radio, television, music. That's all I cared about. 52 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: When I wasn't listen to the radio station, I was 53 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: watching TV or listening to music. Those things, to me 54 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: shaped our culture. So I'm at school, ab TV is 55 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: just starting up, and I saw the cable channels were empty, 56 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: the music was all over the radio. Was it on television? 57 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: So we used to go and shoot the concerts and 58 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: sarcus and we'd pay them and send him to new channels, 59 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: and we played the concerts and people like, oh my god, 60 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: I can see the band. And all I wanted to 61 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: do at that point was put music on television. When 62 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: I graduated, I went to CBS that let's put music 63 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: on let's run concerts. These three martini lunch guys in 64 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: New York looked at me, and I was crazy. I 65 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: got a job in the record business promoting radio stations. 66 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: I wanted to run the radio station. I didn't want 67 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: to promote them on the rail, but that's the job 68 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 1: I had. So then I heard from my friend's deep 69 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 1: Casey was at w LS in Chicago that his great 70 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: friend Bob Pittman was in New York and he was 71 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: going to start a video channel, and I lost my mind. 72 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: It still gives me goose bumps. I was like, this 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: is what I was made to do. This is what 74 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to do. To me, it was like music 75 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: along on television. So I started calling you, and I 76 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: called you, and I called you and I called you. 77 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: And thanks to your assistant and Plunkett, who I was 78 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: annoying so much, she said, all right, Bob, you please 79 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: talk to this guy. And uh we met that day 80 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: with a borrowed support jacket. Because I don't know it, 81 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: but you and I connected that moment because we had 82 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: the same vision. Music and television were the two biggest 83 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: forces in pop culture and they were about to be united. 84 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,119 Speaker 1: You look back on any successful product and it seems easy. 85 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: You were there when we didn't even have approval from 86 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: the board to do it. We just had some money 87 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: to develop it. So give us a little color for 88 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: people who think things are easy and they always go 89 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: exactly the way you plan. What that early development was like. 90 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: It is funny and people like go, oh my god, 91 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: you're in the team that started MTV. That must have 92 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: been a magical and great ago. I don't know. I 93 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: was working too hard. We were so in the trenches 94 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: all the time. It only looks glamorous that day looking back, 95 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: but when you're in it, it's a slugfest. There was 96 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: this idea, but to make it happen, we had no 97 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: money and we all quit jobs. You were at NBC, 98 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: I was at CBS. I was the promotion man of 99 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: the Year in Chicago, and I just said, I'm quitting. 100 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: People like us, we weren't going to fail. I never 101 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,840 Speaker 1: thought we were going to fail. I got scared when 102 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: you'd come in and say, you know, they're gonna cut 103 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: the budgets. We've got a few more months. We've got 104 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: to make our numbers. That just made me say, well, 105 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to work hard to make our numbers. 106 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: I do still remember one conversation we have where I said, Okay, 107 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: we're going to the board and we're gonna pitch this 108 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: for approval, and you go, what, we don't have approval. 109 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: I quit my job. We don't have approval. No, no, John, 110 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: this was development. All the blood ran out of your 111 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: face at that moment. I do remember I had to 112 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: look up because there was no Internet. I had to 113 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: go into Dictionary look up the real definition of development. 114 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: I thought, we're developing something. You development means it's not 115 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: gonna happen yet, but you know something. I was like, 116 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: who cares if it doesn't work, I'll go sleep on 117 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: my sister's couching another job. We were young. John Sykes 118 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: was so hungry he pounded on our door to let 119 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: him in. He believed in music television from the start. 120 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,720 Speaker 1: But my good pal Fred Cyberg, the one who came 121 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: out of radio and helped create the graphic of MTV, 122 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: his reason for getting into TV was very different. One 123 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: of your great supporters, who I had worked with and 124 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: who I loved dearly, Dale Pond, recommended you to me 125 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: pre MTV. It was in the early days to pay TV. 126 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,839 Speaker 1: You came over to join us in the cable revolution. 127 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 1: Why did you make that jump? Well, you know this 128 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: is gonna sound flattering. I did it completely because of you. 129 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: Dale had left the country music radio station and left 130 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: me alone, and the guy I was working for at 131 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: that time in radio I had no respect for whatsoever. 132 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: So you called me one day, you said you want 133 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: to be in television, and oh, you said, okay, come 134 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: have coffee with me. I went to Dale's files and 135 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: he had files on everyone in the business, and there 136 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: was one article about you, and I thought to myself, 137 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: you know, this guy is younger than me and I've 138 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: heard of him, so that's, you know, one check. So 139 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,160 Speaker 1: we go, we have the coffee and I walk out 140 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: and I called my best friend and I said, this 141 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: guy that I just talked to is so much smarter 142 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 1: than my Boston radio He goes, what do you think 143 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: about that? I said, Well, here's what Dale taught me. 144 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what the job is, work for the 145 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: smartest person you can find. And at the time, you 146 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: were the smartest person I could find. That's what that means, 147 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: to truth be told. When you first told me about it, 148 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: I thought it was the dumbest idea in the world, 149 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: because I was a music guy and I had seen, 150 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, a few crummy music videos. I hadn't really 151 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: thought about it too much, and then luckily somebody played 152 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: me a music video that made, you know, the little 153 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: light go off. I don't know whether it was blind 154 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: faith or I was too naive to know that you 155 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: had to have faith, Like you told me it was 156 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: gonna happen, so I believed you totally. I was just 157 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 1: talking with Alan Goodman, my soon to be partner at 158 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: that point, and he said, you know, we didn't really 159 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: know what was going to happen, but you looked at 160 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: all the other people that were around you, and it 161 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: just had to happen. I think that's really true. I 162 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: don't know if you remember, but we went to the 163 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: head of Warner Communications in American Express, and we got 164 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: a meeting with Steve Ross, who is the CEO of 165 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: Warner along with his deputies David Horowitz, et cetera. And 166 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: we got Jim Robinson and his deputy Luke Gershner from 167 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: American Express. We were worried that when we showed these 168 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: videos too from Americans Press, call what So he said, 169 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: let's find the tamest one of my mind. I think 170 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: we found Olivia Newton John if you remember. But in 171 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: the meeting they said you have to play that kind 172 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: of stuff, implying Olivia Newton John was too. But to 173 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: their credit, Jim Robinson's the first one to say, Okay, 174 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm in from my half. How about you? Steve so 175 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: awesome we locked out. The MTV crew we assembled was 176 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: a bunch of lovable misfits and future Viacom MTV CEO 177 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: Tom Preston was no different. It spent several years living 178 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,599 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, reporting clothes and having adventures across Asia, but 179 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 1: when things got two political overseas, he made his way 180 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: back and so so you don't think Tom went saft 181 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: sitting to top Viacom. After he left the company, He 182 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: returned Afghanistan and even has a wonderful story about lying 183 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,599 Speaker 1: on the floor and a bar and football with a 184 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:05,839 Speaker 1: firefight going on all around, the bullets whizzing overhead. I 185 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: was always trying to figure out where would I fit 186 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 1: in in the business world. There wasn't an artist per se. 187 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 1: I wasn't a writer or a musician, but I wanted 188 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 1: to always be around creative people. My first grown up jobs. Essentially, 189 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: we're working in an ad agency. My first account there 190 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: I worked on was g I Joe Now Money. This 191 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: was sort of at the height of the Vietnam War 192 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,199 Speaker 1: and I was in an alienated state to begin with. 193 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: When they were gonna assign me to charm and toilet paper, 194 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: that was sort of my last straw. Called an ex 195 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: girlfriend who lived in Paris. I said, they want me 196 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: to work on a toilet paper account where they had 197 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: segmented the population two rollers, folders and crumplers. And she says, well, 198 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: you can't do that. You should quit that job. Don't 199 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: be a moron. Come with me. I'm gonna go across 200 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: the Sahara Desert up in Paris. So I was on 201 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: a plane like ten days later. That was it for me. 202 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: So Tom set up his clothing company Hidnt Do Kush 203 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,559 Speaker 1: and ran that successfully for a long while. When I 204 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 1: was riven out of Asia, I thought, whatever I do next, 205 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to be something that I also loved deeply, 206 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: and that was music. So I'm methodically looked around getting 207 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a job in the music business. Through connections. I ended 208 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: up in John Lack's office and I told him I thought, 209 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: this is a fantastic idea. He says, we're looking for 210 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: people who have no experience in television. I said, I'm 211 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: your man. They didn't even have television where I've been 212 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: living in the last eight years. We were both originally 213 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: brought to the company for other jobs, by the way, 214 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: before the MTV development even began, by the incredibly charismatic 215 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 1: John Lack, who had this wonderful affliction. He liked to 216 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: hire people for roles they had never had before. And 217 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: you and I benefited from that. But you got in 218 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: here the cable revolution wasn't even recognized as being a revolution. Yet, 219 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: what did you think you were getting into? I mean, 220 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: this was still sort of Mickey Mouse compared to the 221 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: TV business. I thought I was getting into one of 222 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: the greatest ideas that had ever come around. I had 223 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: spent parts of the summers in Europe, and I was 224 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,719 Speaker 1: familiar with the music video which were largely unknown to 225 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: American audiences, and they were infectious, and I thought MTV, 226 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: like all of us on the team, was really one 227 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: of the great ideas. And all of us were essentially 228 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: on a crusade. We got paid nothing. It was the 229 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 1: early eighties version of a startup, very much so. And 230 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 1: if you looked at the media environment then nothing had 231 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: really changed in years. The only thing that had come 232 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: around knew had been FM radio. There was still three 233 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: TV networks. Pong was only a few years old. Remember 234 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,560 Speaker 1: we used to say we're going to do to FM 235 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: what FM did too a M that was our big 236 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: plane channels in the home. Can you imagine. Judy McGrath 237 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: was another key employee in the early days. She eventually 238 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 1: rose to be CEO of MTV Networks. Here she has 239 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: reminiscing about what it meant to make the rules up 240 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: as we went along. The beauty and the wonder of 241 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: MTV was that it was really filled with people that 242 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: I thought could not find gainful employment anywhere else. It 243 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 1: would be somebody who had never really shot anything and 244 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: just wanted to get their hands on a camera and 245 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: try it. And we were willing to do that, so 246 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: I would say absolutely, But remember, don't fall in love 247 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: with your own idea. This is about someone else, not you. 248 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: This is about the person on the other side. They're 249 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,599 Speaker 1: like you, but you can't make this just for you. 250 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: And there are really no other rules aside from you know, 251 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: no full frontal nudity. Go out there and do it, 252 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: and it was so much fun to have the freedom 253 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: to meet people who were far more creative than I was. 254 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: I mean, when I joined, I didn't know anything about television. 255 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,319 Speaker 1: I didn't even like it. My interview was with Fred, 256 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: who said, so, what kind of music do you like? 257 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: And I think I said Bruce Springsteen, I'm not sure. 258 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: He said, well, you're wrong, and I'll tell you why. 259 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 1: And then about forty five minutes later, I left, not 260 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,599 Speaker 1: having said anything else. And the next thing I know, 261 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: they were like, well, you know, look, this is just 262 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: a few of us were trying to get this thing 263 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: going if you'd like to join, And it was kind 264 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: of like how fast can I it out the door 265 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: of Conde nas and jump on this thing whatever it is? 266 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: These people are crazy. What's funny is that when I 267 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: asked Fred about it, he remembered the story exactly the 268 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: same way. She said Bruce Springsteen. I said wrong, because 269 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: I don't have a good thing about Bruce. The fact 270 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: that she cared, you know, the Bruce haters are coming 271 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: after you right now. Believe me, They've been coming after 272 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: me my whole life. The fact that she cared meant 273 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: all the difference to me in the world. Not that 274 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: I agreed. You know, I've just found the camaraderie and 275 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:37,319 Speaker 1: the purpose in the sheer invention of something that didn't exist, 276 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: so irresistible. And again on the math side of it, 277 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: I was saying, I mean this with all sincerity. You 278 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: had a map in the creative group, you had a plan, 279 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: and the plan were promises, and I loved that. I 280 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 1: am making a promise to you. You sit here, I'm 281 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: going to deliver something that you've been waiting for. It 282 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:04,079 Speaker 1: is the first music television network. It is exactly for you. 283 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, I want my MTV and I 284 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: have no idea what it is, but those are powerful 285 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:17,359 Speaker 1: words my in an era before social media and social engagement. 286 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: Something for me that felt like mine and want What 287 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: a powerful word, right, I want my MTV. I took 288 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: that very seriously. I took those promises to heart. Twenty 289 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: four hours a day terrific in stereo, not really, but 290 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: you know, hey, it's mart that sounded good. People who 291 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: did have stereo. I remember you saying to me, we 292 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: want people to think it sounds better than regular television, 293 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: and they did. It just felt to me like if 294 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: I could marry all the things I'm interested in, with 295 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: these set of principles and join this crazy band of 296 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: people who have no right and a lot of audacity 297 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: and a firm belief that this can work. What a gift. 298 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:07,320 Speaker 1: I never looked back, not one second. Let's go back 299 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: to Fred and chat about that iconic MTV logo. Talk 300 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 1: about the logo you set out, You've got the mission. 301 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: You and I had these discussions. I've naively said, we'll 302 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: do our own Star Wars logo because everybody has a 303 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: Star Wars log and you go to bob Ours will 304 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: look cheap. You said, Look, if we do something no 305 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: one's ever seen before, they won't know it's cheap. So 306 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: tell me about the logo. Well, the logo itself actually 307 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: came about because I was too scared to go to 308 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: someone famous. I wanted to go to Milton Glazer, who's 309 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: one of the most famous graphic designers of the last 310 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: fifty years. And I was like, oh, well, he's gonna 311 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: be really expensive and we'll get all the credit. And 312 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: I wanted a little credit, you know, at least. So 313 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: my childhood friend, who I've known since I'm four years old, 314 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: a guy named Frank Olinsky, had just started a little 315 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: design firm behind a tai Chief studio above Bigelow Chemists 316 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: on Sixth Avenue. And Frank had been the guy because 317 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 1: he's a year older than me, who would always introduced 318 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: me to every new rock band. He introduced me to 319 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: the Monkeys, he introduced me to the Mothers of Invention, 320 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: to the Who, to Jeff Beck. So I go down 321 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: to his little Taichi studio place and I go, will 322 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: you guys design a logo for this rock channel we're starting? 323 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: And they're like yes, And they didn't ask me anything. 324 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: They didn't ask me how much they were going to 325 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: get paid or anything like that. And this was right 326 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: after you sent out the first memo in June, and 327 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 1: boy do I wish I had that memo. So for 328 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: a year they designed logos and I just rejected everything, 329 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: probably five hundred designs. Finally they come in the office 330 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: one day. We're actually going to go on the air soon, right, 331 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: and we still don't have anything, and they bring a 332 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: pile and I'm like, no, no, I'm going through the 333 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: whole pile. And at the bottom of the pile is 334 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: a piece of tracing paper. Remember that, you know the 335 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: paper you could see through and it was all wrinkled 336 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: and they had flattened it out. It was just like 337 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: a sketched TV and went, Okay, that's the one I 338 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: can see. Frank like rowling. He and I now disagree. 339 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: But what I had heard is that there's three partners 340 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: and one of them wasn't really a designer. She was 341 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: a production manager and she had done it, and Frank 342 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: saw it and hated him, threw it in the garbage. 343 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: She fished it out and put it at the bottom 344 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: of the pile. He says, that's not true, but you know, 345 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: maybe a good story. The only reason I said yes 346 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: is that Dale had taught me one lesson about design. 347 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: You need to dominate the space, and that big block 348 00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: e M was the only thing they showed that when 349 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: you put it on a TV screen, filled the whole screen. Okay, 350 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: we dominate the space, and in a world of thirty 351 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,119 Speaker 1: channels in a day, when the screen was square exactly right. 352 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: So then I go, oh, you know, we need official colors. 353 00:17:56,119 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: So they come to my office with about ten different 354 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: boards and then a little board where Frank had illustrated 355 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: ten or twelve of them on acrylic overlays and said 356 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: this one will be for the heavy metal show, and 357 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,840 Speaker 1: this one will be for the new Wave show. And 358 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: I'm like, Frank, We're not gonna have shows, you know. 359 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 1: I put it aside. So I put all of the 360 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: boards up on my pegboard and couldn't decide, and this 361 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: one on literally for like weeks and weeks and weeks. 362 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: And then I start looking at his little acrylic thing 363 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: with all the illustration, and I said, why don't we 364 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: just use them all at once all the time? Or 365 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,159 Speaker 1: television we move, shouldn't the logo move? And to be 366 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: honest with you, that was my first real revelation that 367 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 1: I was in television, that we had come up with 368 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: an idea that only worked in television. You actually were 369 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,199 Speaker 1: the guy who inspired us to do animated logos. I said, well, 370 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: what are we going to do in between the videos 371 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: and the VJs that are We're gonna do jingles? And went, oh, no, 372 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: we can't do jingles. And I said, what do we do? 373 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 1: He said, how about this? Imagine it's like a picture 374 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: of a cow. I said, yeah, he said, and all 375 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: of a sudden, an X comes down and cuts the 376 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: cow's head off and it falls to the ground and 377 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: you see the veins coming out and the blood spurting out, 378 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: and the cow vomits, and in the vomit is the logo. 379 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: I went, oh my god, I can do anything I want. 380 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: This is the most exciting moment of my life. And 381 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: we started hiring animators to do all that stuff. The 382 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 1: other thing you did when you did those promos, you 383 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: laid the music bed down first and cut the music. 384 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: People forget this, They don't realize that was an innovation. 385 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 1: So I got that all from Dale. And when we 386 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: started making our first radio spots, we would film country 387 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: music stars and then he said, we'll go to the 388 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: audio studio and cut the audio track. And I went, well, 389 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: the video guy tells me, no, you have to first 390 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 1: do the picture. And then he goes, Fred, we own 391 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,479 Speaker 1: the audio studio. It's free. If you get it right 392 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: in the audio studio, then the three an hour video 393 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: studio will go much faster. By the time we got 394 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: to MTV, I realized that he was absolutely right. Now 395 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: fast forward twenty years. I go to MTV one day 396 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: and I go, who's the promo department? Now on the 397 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: one you're the one, Well, what are you talking about? 398 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: And they said, they make us do the audio. First 399 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: we're filmed. People like why so twenty years later they 400 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: were still doing it. But boy, what it did is 401 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: it brought rhythm. So we had a logo and we 402 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: were a band of believers. But part of getting MTV 403 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,640 Speaker 1: to stick was proving the channel's worth to the record companies. 404 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: Artists loved the idea of being on TV, but the 405 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: labels needed to be convinced. At the time, David said 406 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: music should be heard and not seen. We needed a 407 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: case study, a story to prove we sold records. I 408 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: talked to John Sykes about it. We launch MTV, we 409 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 1: get it underway. We're trying to get some evidence that 410 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: it's working because the record companies are hemorrhaging money those years. 411 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: They were thinking about cutting videos out of their budget, 412 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 1: which of course we've been disaster for. So we said 413 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 1: we gotta get some evidence ahead of the budget cycle. 414 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: And you and Tom Freston go on the road to Tulsa, Oklahoma. 415 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 1: Just hold on a second, because we've got so much 416 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 1: more to talk about. We'll be back after a quick break. 417 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: Some mean what happened in Tulsa. We believe this was working, 418 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: We felt it, but we needed facts. We needed to 419 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: convince a record business. So I was like, we need 420 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: a story, Tom, John, go on their own, don't compact. 421 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: You have a story. And Tulsa didn't happen until we 422 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: went to Syracuse, Houston and we went to the cable markets. 423 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 1: So Tom and I driving through Tulsa in a rental 424 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: car literally with a map of record stores and going 425 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: into places. So you sold any please records selling Duran 426 00:21:55,880 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: Duran sold in the Tulips to Nope, Nope, So we 427 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: kept driving driving. I still remember it was a regord 428 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,159 Speaker 1: store in an old house and tomize Trudgin and we 429 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: say solely this only that's only Dan grand Ran. I 430 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: sold two boxes of Duran Duran records last week. What 431 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 1: is you sold to back? You sold fifty records records 432 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 1: in a box. Can we have your name and can 433 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: we use your phone? We called the box, said Bob, Bob, 434 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,359 Speaker 1: we have a story. We have a story. We have 435 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: a record store that's selling music only played on MTV. 436 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: And he said, great, get a name, get the information. 437 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: We need an article, and so we hang up the phone. 438 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: I turned to Tom, Tom, we get to go home. 439 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: And we took that and we wrote it as a 440 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: case study and we ran it in bill Board and 441 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: the music magazines to influence the record company keep going. 442 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: I have, of course you do. You have everything we 443 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: ever did at MTV. You are the pack rat. I 444 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: have that one sheet MTV sales records, Joey Smith, and 445 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: boy that Joey Smith. Wherever you are tell us Oklahoma, 446 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 1: thank you. If you're wondering why we picked those places, Syracuse, Houston, Tulsa, 447 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,679 Speaker 1: it's because those were the few markets where we had 448 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: enough cable density that we could make a point. These 449 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: cities ended up being little laboratories where we could peek 450 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: in and take measurements and show the world just how 451 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,400 Speaker 1: effective MTV was gonna be. So it proved our worth 452 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: to the record companies. But you have to remember we 453 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: still had to convince cable operators to carry m TV. 454 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: They wanted to be paid to carry our channel, and frankly, 455 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: we didn't have the money. So we had to come 456 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: up with a breakthrough idea and genius campaign that could 457 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: do all the heavy lifting. Here, Tom Preston and Fred 458 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: Seibert telling that story, let's start the talk. When we 459 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: launched MTV. You were the head of marketing the cable 460 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: operator wouldn't put MTV on. They wanted us to pay 461 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: them one we didn't have the money, and too that 462 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: was probably a slippery slope, and so we decided we 463 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: would use a whole strategy to get distribution. I want 464 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: my MTV. Well, it was sort of a Hail Mary 465 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 1: passed because you know, we're about to go under. No 466 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: one in the organization knew we were about to go under, 467 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: So how are we going to get these cable operators 468 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: at us? When we knew in fact that the people 469 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,479 Speaker 1: who actually had it in a few towns where it existed, 470 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:20,879 Speaker 1: they loved it. They were fanatical about it. So we 471 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 1: actually had to go over their heads. And the idea 472 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: was that campaign I Want My Mapo, which I remembered 473 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: as a baby boomer in the fifties. I'm obnoxious, I 474 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: want my MAPO, but I want my MTV. The actual 475 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,719 Speaker 1: spot said, they grew up with rock and roll, they 476 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,439 Speaker 1: grew up with television. Now they want their MTV. George Lois, 477 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: who never saw something that he couldn't copy, had already 478 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: copied a famous TV commercial from the fifties called I 479 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: Want my Mapo for a really horrendous tasting, and he 480 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: redid it with Mick Jagger and David Bowie, and on 481 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: the beginning of the spot he had Pete Townsend doing 482 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: it America demand your MTV and people go, I want 483 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: my MTV. I want my MTV. And then Pete towns 484 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 1: and again with a telephone going toll your cable operator 485 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 1: and say I want my And they showed us this spot. 486 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: If we could get major rock stars in a commercial 487 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,440 Speaker 1: to kind of hold our logo, validate and hold it 488 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: and command people to call their cable company and demand 489 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,920 Speaker 1: their MTV, make it look cool, put some animation around it, 490 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,200 Speaker 1: and then put it in these markets at very high frequency. 491 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: We go into a market and would be like a 492 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,719 Speaker 1: Blockbuster movie was opening. Most people in the market had 493 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: never heard of MTV. So we went and we pitched 494 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: it to you. I think you saw the feeling of 495 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: it right away. Well, there's a lesson in this too 496 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: that you've always done very very well, which is harnessing 497 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: the power of partners and in the case of I 498 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: Want my MTV, music stars who were willing to be 499 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: in the commercial for free to help us accomplish goals, 500 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: but you also have music companies and others. Dale was 501 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: this brilliant hybrid of a strategist and a creative guy. 502 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 1: And as a strategist, what he understood is that we 503 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: had no money to spend on this ad. I remember 504 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: going into our boss's office and saying, but HBO spending 505 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: ten million dollars a year in advertising, goes, you're lucky. 506 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: You have to somehow or other. The people in the 507 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,159 Speaker 1: media business didn't actually believe in advertising as the weirdest thing. 508 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: And so I went to Dale. I said, look, we 509 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: only have two million dollars, and he did an incredible 510 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: data dump of where could MTV be put on against 511 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,920 Speaker 1: how much media cost in that particular market, and he 512 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: did three or four or five cross tabs to figure 513 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: out the most likely places that if we put on 514 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: these spots that we would get people calling and making 515 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: the cable operators insane. And god knows, I think we 516 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: made customer representatives from all over America crazy within four weeks. 517 00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: Next thing, you know, every cable operator of there were 518 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: eleven of them in a market, which would not be 519 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: unusual time they'd all call up and surrender. So we 520 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: would move a market by market for a couple of 521 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: years across the country, going from like what was seven 522 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: million subscribers ended up being eighty or ninety million. I 523 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: had a guy stopped me at a cable operator and 524 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: said I hate you, and I go, why why do 525 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: you hate me? And he goes because my phone rings 526 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: all day with those people saying I want mam people. 527 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: I can't get any work done. In my chats with 528 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: the co founders, there's a lot of fondness for this 529 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: deviant culture we had. MTV was fine. It was definitely 530 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: anti establishment. And the truth is even the promotions dripped 531 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: with the brand sensibility. In some ways they defined the 532 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: brand sensibility. There's some of the crazy stories too. It 533 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: was fun reminiscing with John Sykes about them. You were 534 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: the guy who did the promotions. You came up with 535 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: these ideas and fortunately, unfortunately the one that also executed them. 536 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,200 Speaker 1: You did to Paint the House Paint promotion with John Mellencamp, 537 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: you did the Last Weekend with Van Halen. What formula 538 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: were you using? Goes back to that connected New York 539 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: thing of being a dreamer, because I was the kid. 540 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,120 Speaker 1: I was the viewer who thought, oh my god, if 541 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: only I could dot dot dot. So when you said 542 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: we've got to put together some promotions. We gotta go 543 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: bigger than life. We go, what are we gonna do? 544 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 1: I just said to myself, okay, what would anybody give 545 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: their eye teeth to do? What would be the fantasy 546 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: of all fantasies? And I remember just John had done 547 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: a song called pink Houses. So let's give away a 548 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: house and you're gonna paint the mother pink. Tell us 549 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: about the first house you bought. When you had to 550 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: execute it, I means you got to go find a house, 551 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: got to go buy a house. You had to go 552 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: actually get a team to paint it pink. You gotta 553 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: go fly people in. So we went, and you had 554 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: no money, so we had to buy the chief house 555 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: you could find. So Bob goes, take a cashier's check 556 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: and just go buy a house. And I okay. So 557 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: I flew in Indiana and John Mellencamp, who loved the idea, 558 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: sends his ex wife to meet me to show me 559 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: around it by some house. She's a realtor. So we 560 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: go and I go, okay, I got about two hours 561 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: before I get the flight back to New York. Show 562 00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: me four houses. First house we buy, the woman is 563 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: there just cookies for me. The kids are out front, 564 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: they've cleaned it up. This was a shock. I felt 565 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: so bad for her. She was a single mom. Look 566 00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: at this house, and I said, we'll do It's a 567 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: we can paint this pink. So I wrote a check 568 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 1: thirty two dollars, bought the house. Her jaw dropped. No realator, 569 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: just handed the check and got in the car, drove back. 570 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: When you open up Rolling Stone, three weeks later, MTV 571 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: buys house on toxic waste dump. So so I call 572 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: you go Bob. I had no idea. John Mellencamp writes 573 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: me letters I have today. Dear John, I'm sure you've 574 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: read Rolling Stone by now, and I'm sure you wouldn't 575 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: want to give a house on a toxic waste dump. 576 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: And I'm going, oh my god, we're stuck with a house. 577 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: So I had to fly back and get an other house. 578 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: But that's not the good double the budget, the budget. 579 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 1: The good story was The Last Weekend with Van Halen. 580 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: That one really really defined MTV as a serious, dangerous 581 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 1: rock and roll brand to consumers. There was a movie 582 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: called The Last Weekend. Gray Millan was in there and 583 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: guy loses his mind whatever and so we just said, 584 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: let's do a laws week with the band. Who's the 585 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: craziest band out there right now, van Halen. Van Halen 586 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't do any promotion because they were worried about their image. 587 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: We called them with the idea that we're in. We're in, 588 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: and by the way, will fulfill the contest. You don't 589 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: have to do anything, just drop off the fans with 590 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: us and we'll deliver them back on Sunday. So we 591 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 1: did that. The kid arrives and they take him aout 592 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,920 Speaker 1: four o'clock in the afternoon, right into the backstage, and 593 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 1: everything you can imagine what happened with Van Halen happened. 594 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 1: So by the time the band goes on stage at 595 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: nine o'clock at night, this guy is fried. There's been 596 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: things that were not a Warner m X and condoned 597 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 1: or MT VOUS activity. So he's standing on age completely 598 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: out of his mind, and David Lee Roth goes, we 599 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: have the winner tonight of the MTV Lost Weekend, Joe Smith, 600 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, Joe Congratulations. They bring on a giant sheet cake. 601 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: He's got his hands up from there and the bands 602 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: around him, and they take the sheet cake and they 603 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: push it into his face and the guy is stunned 604 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: and he starts twirling around swinging punches at the band. 605 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: The band feaks out, They take him off and they 606 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: bring him backstage. We say to his friend, what's wrong 607 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: with him? And he said, we forgot to tell you. 608 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 1: He has a middle plate in his head. He was 609 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: in an accident. He's not supposed to drink, so they 610 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: had to put him in a room with a security 611 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: guard all night. But that kind of made the legend 612 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: of MTV. I wish we could take credit for that, 613 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 1: but that was it. So the contest. Maybe we're lucky 614 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,880 Speaker 1: we can't take credit for it. You know what those 615 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: contests did, They creates the fantasy and the aspiration that 616 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 1: makes someone want to be attracted to a product. MTV 617 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: could have been a flash in the pan, but the marketing, spirit, capturing, 618 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: and attitude that Young America responded to. People tuned in 619 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: just to see what was going on in MTV. It 620 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: was a place to hang out, and as the word spread, 621 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: the channel made money. Although MTV was the most radical 622 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: of the cable channels, it was also the first cable 623 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 1: network to actually make a profit, and we had the 624 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: highest that revenue of any of the cable networks. And 625 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: I remember this was a time when people didn't believe 626 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: cable networks could even be profitable. Boy did that feel good. 627 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: But part of keeping the channel successful was continuing to 628 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: think outside the mainstream and continue to come up with 629 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: new ideas. Here's bread again. We had these creative promo departments. 630 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: Once people came in and started saying, well, I worked 631 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,479 Speaker 1: on promos over here, I didn't want to hire them. 632 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: One of the earliest people I hired had just come 633 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 1: out of film school and his first job was cutting 634 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 1: film negatives at a pornell place. I'm like, okay, fine, 635 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: you won't remember this, but one day you called me 636 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: into your office and you said, hey, I need you 637 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: to be you know, the head of production. I said, um, Bob, 638 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: you know I've never seen even the red light on 639 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,479 Speaker 1: top of a camera go on. And you went, oh, 640 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 1: don't worry, you'll figure it out. And that was that, 641 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden I was in television and 642 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 1: you did a really great job. Thank you. But it 643 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: wasn't just people like Fred who got an opportunity to MTV. 644 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: You're Judy and Tom talking about how he kept an 645 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 1: eye out from new talent and groom them upward. And 646 00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: the culture that the two of them kept going and 647 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: kept building at the company even after I left. If 648 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: you think about it, in the days of MTV, we're 649 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: probably looking back at an extraordinary number of women and 650 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: very important roles. Today would be crowing about it. Probably, 651 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, whether you like it or not. You have 652 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: been mentoring people, You've been setting an example. How do 653 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: you handle that responsibility? What do you do consciously about that? 654 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: I began to see I was sort of a better 655 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: editor coach than I was a player. I can remember 656 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: some things that just felt like personal milestones to be. 657 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: You know. One of the great fun things I got 658 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: to do would be hang out in the rehearsals for 659 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: the Video Music Awards, and I was there and I 660 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: was thinking, Wow, you know, we've got a female director, 661 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,840 Speaker 1: we have a female on stage managing the crew. We 662 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: have a young woman who's the head writer. We have 663 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,520 Speaker 1: a young woman in charge of seating and events. But 664 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 1: we've got women in roles that were not traditionally women's roles. 665 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: They were just really good. And I do think it's 666 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: incumbent on somebody who gets an opportunity like I got 667 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: to look out for underrepresented people in general. And so 668 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: you know, when Beth McCarthy Miller raised her hand, was 669 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: an easy like, let's let Beth direct, come on, like, 670 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: she can do it. We know she can do it. 671 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: Everybody knows she can do it. And I looked around 672 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: and thought, Wow, this whole thing is kind of really 673 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: looking very different than most of the other sets that 674 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,720 Speaker 1: I've been on. I once heard Tina Fey say something 675 00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: about a panel where a bunch of women were sort 676 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: of congratulating each other for different things, and someone said 677 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: they were lucky, and a bunch of other women jumped 678 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: on her and said, oh my god. Women always say 679 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: they're lucky. Men never say they're lucky. You made your 680 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: own luck. And Tina was actually very thoughtful about it, 681 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: and she said, I think timing plays a role in 682 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:17,520 Speaker 1: something as well as luck and talent. And you know, 683 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: I always felt like I worked with men who are 684 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: not typical and young employees who are not typical. So 685 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,320 Speaker 1: how ridiculous would it be to take a typical approach 686 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: to anything else. We were up ending tradition all the time, 687 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: and not just for the sake of doing it, but 688 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: because you give somebody a chance, they'll knock themselves out 689 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: to show you that they could really do it. And 690 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: we actually talked about it back then. We said, you know, 691 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: if somebody has done three or four things and they're 692 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: not great, we have empirical evidence they won't be great. 693 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: But if we give somebody a shot who's never done it, 694 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 1: they could be the next Steven Spielberg. Exactly right, And 695 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: the only way we're gonna find out is to take 696 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: a shot. And you continue to do that through your career. 697 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: A lot of focus was on eating a culture that 698 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: would attract creative people. They would want to come and 699 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 1: live there. I mean we'd have at one point Judd 700 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:09,279 Speaker 1: Apatow or Ben Stiller or John Stewart, Stephen Cobra, you know, 701 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,080 Speaker 1: Adam Sandler would like be sleeping in the offices. Sometimes 702 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:14,799 Speaker 1: it was a hothouse atmosphere. You were probably the first 703 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: talent incubator. I don't think they called them that back then. 704 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: How did you pull that together? Because it is really 705 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 1: remarkable the people you had. Well, a lot of is 706 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,280 Speaker 1: sort of what's the vibe of the place. We always 707 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: wanted to make the room for deviancy. I would always say, 708 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: who is the odd ball person, who's the intern who's 709 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,960 Speaker 1: gonna come running in with an idea like Yo, MTV raps. 710 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 1: That was like a twenty one year old intern who 711 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 1: came up with a demo in his basement. Because we 712 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: had these networks, there was a lot of room for experimentation. 713 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,360 Speaker 1: Everything you made didn't have to be really tightly organized. 714 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: There was a lot of room for improvisation and innovation. 715 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: If you have a hallmark for that, people would want 716 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 1: to step up and follow what's he Just try and 717 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,399 Speaker 1: have good standards, provide guard rails for people, celebrate risk, 718 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: you know, we give creative people a lot of freedom. 719 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 1: One of the people who was crucial tim TV's early 720 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,320 Speaker 1: success was former MPR CEO y'ar al Mong. Y'arll and 721 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: I went way back. We even had a show called 722 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: Album Tracks that aired after Saturday Night Live. But y'all 723 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 1: had an incredible eye for programming and when MTV had 724 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,399 Speaker 1: to think beyond music videos. He played a crucial role 725 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 1: for me. It was a great transition from the radio 726 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: world to the television world because there were so many similarities. 727 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: If you had picked me up and tried to drop 728 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: me into a broadcast network to do scripted filmed entertainment. 729 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: I would have, I think flailed and failed miserably, But 730 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,200 Speaker 1: ultimately we all learned a lot of lessons about the 731 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:45,800 Speaker 1: fragility of this brand new thing, music videos, and that 732 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 1: was something that we all kind of had to learn 733 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: in real time. It was humbling, it was embarrassing, and 734 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: it didn't think it stopped working. There was so much 735 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: heat around music videos at the time, and there were 736 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: so many people watching and being really enthralled. But but 737 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:05,319 Speaker 1: I think ultimately it became less interesting. It was television 738 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,399 Speaker 1: and we were using a lot I was, at least 739 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: using a lot of radio rules for a different medium, 740 00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: and people were making four minute decisions of what they 741 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: were going to watch and not thirty minute and sixty 742 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: minute or ninety minute decisions, and ultimately had to switch 743 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,320 Speaker 1: strategy to go to content that people would watch for 744 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: longer periods of time, long form, and that was very 745 00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 1: controversial at the time, but you know, it worked. What 746 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: were your first shows, And we started with the Weekend 747 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,160 Speaker 1: Rock and hiring Kurt Loader from Rolling Stone magazine and 748 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: taking the MTV news segments and making it a half 749 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: hour show, and that worked, and then Rockumentaries a specials 750 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: as the second. The third was Club MTV, Let's do 751 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: an American band stand for today, Let's play music videos 752 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: and hied Downtown Julie Brown. That was a hit. Every 753 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: show that went on did well, and then we're gonna 754 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,440 Speaker 1: really cocky and think, man, we really know how to 755 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: make hits. But I think it was more a reflection 756 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,560 Speaker 1: of the fact that music videos at the time it'd 757 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: run their course. The most controversial one remote Control of 758 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: the Game show, and all the research came back said 759 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: you can't do a game show. And I remember saying 760 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,319 Speaker 1: to our good friend Marshall Cohen. We worked with an 761 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: MTV research google. Yes, I said, I think we're asking 762 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 1: the wrong question. The question should be if we were 763 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 1: to do a game show, what would it look like? 764 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: And the answer came back, well, it should be irreverencey crazy. 765 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: We used all the information and hired Ken Ober and 766 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: Colin Quinn and Adam Sandler was a regular on the 767 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 1: show and it was a monster. But the additional research 768 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: the way we asked it indicated that that have been 769 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:56,160 Speaker 1: a disaster. It worked out great, yep, oh yeah, yeah. 770 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: So MTV started to a with new formats, but its 771 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: Preston remembers it the limited budgets were actually an engine 772 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:09,960 Speaker 1: for creativity. We couldn't just innovate it by shuffling the 773 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: music mix or changing things. That was clear. We tried everything. 774 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: We just couldn't play the top ten videos all day long. 775 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 1: There was always new shows coming around. We would add 776 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: shows on package music and like on hip hop music 777 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: with the OMTV raps and so forth, and it kind 778 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: of came down to the real world that was and 779 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: that was like, well, we've tried everything else, we should 780 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:32,840 Speaker 1: probably do a soap opera because young people are interested 781 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: in what other young people are doing. So they came 782 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 1: in with a presentation to me and we had to 783 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 1: hire writers, and I said, well, you know, we don't 784 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: have any money to hire writers, so we can't do this. 785 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:46,480 Speaker 1: So then Doug Herzog came back and said, you know, 786 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: we're really good at post production, that's our major skill. 787 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: What if we just rented Aloft and soho and stuck 788 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: some cameras in there and bring these kids in and 789 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,280 Speaker 1: then let them live and then we'll post it afterwards 790 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,400 Speaker 1: and make it into a show. And that was that 791 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: was sort of the birth of reality TV. It was 792 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,080 Speaker 1: an idea that was not born of brilliance but born 793 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 1: of cheap skateness. MTV was a success story finally, but 794 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:12,359 Speaker 1: it wasn't long before the competition started circling. Here's Tom 795 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 1: with the story of what motivated us to start v 796 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: H one. Ted Turner want to come in and basically 797 00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: p in our parade. He said he was going to 798 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,880 Speaker 1: launch a music channel that played none of the Devil's music. 799 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:26,120 Speaker 1: Let me say first that the cable music channel lasted 800 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: a hundred one days on the air and he had 801 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,239 Speaker 1: to fold up and go home. But we decided we 802 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: can't let this happen, and if there's gonna be a 803 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: second music channel, we should have a second music channel, 804 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,480 Speaker 1: and we made the case to cable operations, we have 805 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: a second music channel. You don't want to add the 806 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: Ted Turner channel, because that's just gonna go head to 807 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: head against the one you already have. Add VH one, 808 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,800 Speaker 1: which was called the Very Hot One at the time, 809 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: because it would be more compatible and it would play 810 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: artists for another demo and we would sell it tu 811 00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 1: on a combo basis. Basically, it was free if you 812 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: already had MTV. So we strangled him in terms of 813 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: not being able to get distribution. Therefore no advertising, no revenue, 814 00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: no light on the end of the tunnel, and he 815 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,200 Speaker 1: went out of business and we went forward. Of course, 816 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,600 Speaker 1: launching v H one was one thing. It was a 817 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: savvy move, a classic fighting brand. It was essential and 818 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: fighting off ted Turner channel. But once that was over, 819 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: the team had to figure out what to do with it. 820 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,320 Speaker 1: The network struggled for years. Ratings were abysmal, so John Sykes, 821 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,719 Speaker 1: who left MTV by then it was called back to 822 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:32,439 Speaker 1: lead the charge. Tom Preston calls Jop says, come home, 823 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:35,759 Speaker 1: needs you to fix a H one. What did you do? 824 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 1: As you know, Bob, because you taught me so much 825 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,720 Speaker 1: of the stuff. A brand is only valuable if there's 826 00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 1: an underserved segment of the audience that needs it. Hip 827 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 1: hop was starting to happen. Alternate music was exploding and 828 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: a lot of the traditional rock bands in R and 829 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: D bands were being pushed out and they're going like 830 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: kind off of the cliff. And I said, there's a 831 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: market here because having run a record company, a publishing company, 832 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: we were seeing these artists that used to be called 833 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: middle of the road back then, but now they were 834 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: actually vibrant pop bands. They didn't have a place. And 835 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: then I saw who are those powerful buyers, young adults, 836 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,320 Speaker 1: young college graduates. Here's a generation. It's grown up on MTV. 837 00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: They have money, they're affluent, and they have nowhere to go. 838 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,560 Speaker 1: So I was as excited actually about VH one as 839 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,279 Speaker 1: I was about MTV, and MTV is iconic and it 840 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: will be there forever. But the other thing about v 841 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,319 Speaker 1: H one to me also was it was my own 842 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,120 Speaker 1: and I knew if I fell, it would be on me. 843 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,640 Speaker 1: It would be like out at VH one fails. They 844 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,400 Speaker 1: used to call VH point one the rating of it 845 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,760 Speaker 1: again and for those people ratings, ratings are from zero 846 00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: to whatever and point one zero. VH one is the 847 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,600 Speaker 1: ugly step child at MTV Networks. I used to say 848 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: it was nails out the back seat of a car 849 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 1: to put flats and the tires of the cars behind us, 850 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,520 Speaker 1: because we didn't want anybody compete with MTV. But I said, 851 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,280 Speaker 1: now it quietly has their million homes. There's a market 852 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,440 Speaker 1: for this. And I looked in the room and half 853 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: the people like or asleep bicycle that Quenton staying. They 854 00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: had a job, but they didn't believe in the product, 855 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: but they're reflecting a paycheck. So I said, listen, if 856 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: you don't believe in this, it's okay. We won't make 857 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:17,160 Speaker 1: a big thing you. We're gonna fire you, but we'll 858 00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: work out a package and you should leave because we 859 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:21,920 Speaker 1: need people who going to believe in this. There's a 860 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: market for this, and I believe that this is gonna 861 00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:26,359 Speaker 1: be a three million dollar business in the next three 862 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,359 Speaker 1: years if we all focus on that. So people came 863 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,600 Speaker 1: to me and said, I don't want to do this. 864 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: So I didn't think they I don't think it would 865 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,239 Speaker 1: come and like, I don't think you're right, Like, okay, well, 866 00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: thank you, by bye. They all came back three years 867 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 1: later looking for jobs. But it was about believing in yourself, 868 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,120 Speaker 1: believing your idea of hiring people around you are better 869 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: than you at executing what they did. And we put 870 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,920 Speaker 1: together a team at v H one hooping on to 871 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 1: run NBC, Nintendo, Bravo. We put together an all star 872 00:44:57,680 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: trip so maybe proud and working with some of the 873 00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,840 Speaker 1: read Stone, I mean Sun of red Stone was on 874 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: his game. You walked in and said, here's my plan, 875 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 1: here's what I want to do, and he just say, fine, 876 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,520 Speaker 1: go do it. If you don't do it, I'll fire 877 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: you and say that's all I want to know. Just 878 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: give me the rope, and he did. It was a 879 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,000 Speaker 1: great nine years. We shattered all the records there, but 880 00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 1: all good businesses you've got to reinvent them otherwise they 881 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,840 Speaker 1: paid it off. MTV was the starting point of a 882 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,919 Speaker 1: cable revolution. The channel and the creative engine we built 883 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: gave birth to so much more. Here's some I'm talking 884 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:34,880 Speaker 1: about just that topic. I was ambitious and I was 885 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,719 Speaker 1: highly motivated for this to succeed. I thought that we 886 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,279 Speaker 1: were in this TV revolution, We had the wind that 887 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,600 Speaker 1: our back. It was all going to come true. Was 888 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 1: too good of an idea to fail. You know, a 889 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,719 Speaker 1: lot of life is about timing and luck, and I 890 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,439 Speaker 1: had somehow ended up once again in the right place 891 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,680 Speaker 1: at the right time, and this was sort of my destiny. 892 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 1: I was going to meet my opportunity. What you did, 893 00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,359 Speaker 1: you know, I would say my time there, we really 894 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: proved it was a business. Were the first cable network 895 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:03,840 Speaker 1: to make a profit. But it was really you and 896 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: your team, including Shooting Grath, who built MTV and the 897 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 1: other networks into this incredible media giant. What drove that in? 898 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,200 Speaker 1: Where did that vision come from? And how did you 899 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,719 Speaker 1: get there. There's a compliment to you, Bob, I mean 900 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: you are the guy. Always keep your eye on the consumer, 901 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: find out what the consumer one. We would always see 902 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,560 Speaker 1: this resource the consumer wanted what we were selling, and 903 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,960 Speaker 1: we could tune it up a bit. And we also 904 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,279 Speaker 1: had this sort of slightly subversive underground feel, and you know, 905 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,160 Speaker 1: there was nothing really around like that, and we would 906 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: continue to launch new networks Comedy Central or TV Land, 907 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: and the whole international world of television began to deregulate 908 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,319 Speaker 1: in the late eighties. All these countries really only had 909 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,600 Speaker 1: state TV pretty much as you know. So the confidence 910 00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,840 Speaker 1: I had built from my years living in Afghanistan and 911 00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: India was actually very transferable because I really knew we 912 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:53,520 Speaker 1: could go anywhere and do anything. And if we could 913 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:55,120 Speaker 1: go to Europe, we could go to Asia, we go 914 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,319 Speaker 1: to Latin America. So we build really the first worldwide 915 00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: television networking company, and we rolled out not just MTV, 916 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,359 Speaker 1: but also Nickelodeon and Comedy Central, a lot of others 917 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: right down through Africa. So the business gradually evolved from 918 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 1: one where we would package other people's product like a 919 00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: music video, to where we would increasingly own what we did. 920 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: But at the heart of it always a creative machine, 921 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: which again was something that you put in at the 922 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: inception of the company. When we first started MTV, it 923 00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,360 Speaker 1: wasn't just entertainment. We built the channel to be the 924 00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 1: voice of young America and that included doing good and 925 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: my time there. MTV made its mark with massive events 926 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,960 Speaker 1: with important missions and the Sky International, Band Aid farm Ade, 927 00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 1: and of course Live Aid. But it was Rock the 928 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: Vote that truly took the channel into politics, and some 929 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,239 Speaker 1: say even got a president elected. Here's Judy talking about it. 930 00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: You've always done good, Rock the Vote, chooser, lose AIDS awareness. 931 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,160 Speaker 1: How did you think about that inside of a company 932 00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 1: and how do you think of it for you as 933 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,279 Speaker 1: a as a person. Well, you know, inside MTV, it 934 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: was very interesting when we decided to get into you know, 935 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:07,840 Speaker 1: and certainly Rock the Vote was not our idea politics 936 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,440 Speaker 1: Jeff ear Off. So Jeff was very passionate about this, 937 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:14,880 Speaker 1: and it's sort of grewing to Rock the Vote. And 938 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,680 Speaker 1: I remember talking to Tom Freston, with whom I had 939 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,440 Speaker 1: an extraordinarily great creative relationship, and this was one of 940 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:26,360 Speaker 1: the rare instances where we had a blowout. Really we 941 00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: really didn't agree, but I listened to what he said. 942 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:34,200 Speaker 1: He said, this is a terrible idea. It's not gonna work. 943 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,839 Speaker 1: This is an entertainment brand. Nobody cares about this. We're 944 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 1: gonna get laughed out of town. We do not have 945 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:45,080 Speaker 1: permission to do this. There's nothing about us that says 946 00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,359 Speaker 1: we should be stepping anywhere near an election or voting 947 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:50,400 Speaker 1: or any of this. So I went back and I 948 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:52,360 Speaker 1: thought about it a little bit, and I thought, Okay, 949 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 1: this is where I come into the picture. I think 950 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:56,520 Speaker 1: I grew up in an era where one of the 951 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,640 Speaker 1: many things I loved about music was it's social commentary, 952 00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,759 Speaker 1: and it is about the times we live in, and 953 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,400 Speaker 1: it's about all the things that affect you in a 954 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,400 Speaker 1: very deep way. And I thought, I think there's a 955 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 1: way to do this where it will be engaging. This 956 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: was not about telling young people you need to vote. 957 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:15,359 Speaker 1: That's not the way I looked at it at all. 958 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,800 Speaker 1: It was saying to people who make big decisions in 959 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,279 Speaker 1: this country, this is a generation that is disengaged from you, 960 00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:26,879 Speaker 1: and you need to address them on their turf, their 961 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: way and we'll invite you to do that. That's your shot. 962 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,040 Speaker 1: It wasn't about trying to be parental or any of 963 00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff to them, or give them boring 964 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: facts or anything like that. And so we got as 965 00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,759 Speaker 1: smart as we could get. And I think I didn't 966 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 1: tell anybody. That's another thing. I sent Tabitha store, and 967 00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: Tabitha went to New Hampshire and she called me at 968 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:50,399 Speaker 1: like midnight. She said, you know, I got up here 969 00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,160 Speaker 1: in like a bunch of candidates are like, what's MTV? 970 00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:55,680 Speaker 1: And she said, and then a couple of them like 971 00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: got back off the bus, primarily Bill Clinton, and said 972 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,160 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you. And then we were sort of 973 00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: off and running. And you know that partnered with incredible 974 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,920 Speaker 1: creative work on those rock the Vote spots, I mean 975 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,080 Speaker 1: Madonna wrapped in a flag. Whatever their disagreement, Tom Preston 976 00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:15,759 Speaker 1: quickly embraced the idea. We knew it was important to 977 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: our audience. I also knew it was extremely important to 978 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: the employee base. Employees would feel better about working there 979 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: if they knew we had some kind of social purpose 980 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:25,759 Speaker 1: associated with what we would do. And we had a 981 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,120 Speaker 1: hundred sixty eight hours a week. We could certainly squeeze 982 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: it in. It also turned out it legitimized us in 983 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,360 Speaker 1: the eyes of advertisers who formally wouldn't come near us, 984 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:36,279 Speaker 1: like American Express. But most importantly, the audience liked it. 985 00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,719 Speaker 1: And then fast forward to you know, we're gonna throw 986 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,280 Speaker 1: an inaugural ball that's not official, and see if anybody 987 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: comes to the party, and our em is gonna play, 988 00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,359 Speaker 1: and and Vogue is gonna play. We tried to make 989 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 1: it as spirited as MTV, but add a little bit 990 00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:53,680 Speaker 1: of gravitas, if you will, and meaning you know, like 991 00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: you do matter. You are young, but you matter, and 992 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: you deserve to be heard and listened to, and we're 993 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:05,920 Speaker 1: going to help you. MTV was a wonderful ride from 994 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: the very beginning. My co founders and I knew we 995 00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,920 Speaker 1: were doing something that was important to culture, but we 996 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,240 Speaker 1: had no idea we were going to change culture. MTV 997 00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:20,360 Speaker 1: changed TV, it changed music, it changed graphic design, and 998 00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: it certainly changed my life. No matter how old I 999 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 1: get or whatever else I've done, MTV is still an 1000 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,600 Speaker 1: important chapter in my life, and all of us as 1001 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: co founders are still very much a very type family. 1002 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,239 Speaker 1: But the truth is, looking back I think we all 1003 00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:37,439 Speaker 1: feel the same way. Tom Freston felt when he joined 1004 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,800 Speaker 1: the team. I was happy to have a job. I 1005 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 1: couldn't believe anyone was gonna hire me, and lucky for 1006 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: all of us, we all kept getting hired again and again. 1007 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode. 1008 00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:59,440 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listening to Math and Magic, a 1009 00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,319 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. This show is hosted by 1010 00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger for booking and 1011 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,239 Speaker 1: wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikkiatore 1012 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,520 Speaker 1: for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael Asar for their 1013 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,480 Speaker 1: recording help. Our editor Ryan Murdoch, and of course Gail Raoul, 1014 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,840 Speaker 1: Eric Angel, Noel Mango and everyone who helped bring this 1015 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:58,360 Speaker 1: show to your ears. Until next time, m