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Speaker 1: Welcome to today's edition of the Clay Travis and Buck

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Speaker 1: Sexton Show podcast.

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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody.

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Speaker 1: It is the Tuesday edition of Clay and Buck, and

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Speaker 1: the fourth indictment came down. Let's just jump into it

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Speaker 1: right away. Clay is in transit to one of his

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Speaker 1: book tour stops today. He will join us for a

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Speaker 1: segment here in just a little bit the bottom of

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Speaker 1: this hour to weigh in on this indictment. We've also

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Speaker 1: got Andy McCarthy in the mix on just what we

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Speaker 1: can take so far from the massive and I might

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Speaker 1: say massive, I just mean in terms of how long

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Speaker 1: it is, how many counts there are, it is, the

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Speaker 1: count of countless counts. It just keeps going on and

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Speaker 1: on and on. You have a large number of individuals

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Speaker 1: in the indictment, most notably Donald Trump, but also and

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Speaker 1: I had a feeling this was the case, and we

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Speaker 1: did our show yesterday before this indictment it was formally

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Speaker 1: formally published. Remember it was pre published apparently before the

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Speaker 1: grand jury given voter on.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of a weird thing, isn't it. Usually you wait.

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Speaker 1: Until afterwards, right, But it's almost like the whole grand

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Speaker 1: jury thing was just a formality anyway, and they knew

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Speaker 1: that based on what the system was expected to do,

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Speaker 1: that it would act in this way, that would operate

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Speaker 1: in this way. So we sure enough the charges that

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Speaker 1: came down that were initially published turned out to be

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Speaker 1: the charges that have now been put forward against Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: The allegations are now official in this indictment. And I

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Speaker 1: said there'd be other people that had touched as well.

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Speaker 2: Or it's going after as well.

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Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani, Mark Meadows, John Eastman, Jeff Clark, Mike Roman.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole bunch of people who have been indicted

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Speaker 1: in this. There's a lot of folks who all are

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Speaker 1: caught up in this. Donald Trump and eighteen other individuals

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Speaker 1: came down late last night the top count, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna today.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna spend a lot of time on this.

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Speaker 1: There's some other stories I want to get to as well,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot that's here. The top count is

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Speaker 1: racketeering or a rico charge, so that I also thought

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Speaker 1: was going to be a part of this, and that

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Speaker 1: is the umbrella charge, if you will. That's to get

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Speaker 1: at this as a multifacited conspiracy. There are so many

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Speaker 1: steps that the prosecution here. Fanny Willis lays out that

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Speaker 1: it's ninety eight pages. The indictment is ninety eight pages long.

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Speaker 1: I read it this morning, and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get into all of it. It's a lot of it's a

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Speaker 1: lot of forgery charges. Trying to hear. I'll give you

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Speaker 1: a I'll give you a few.

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Speaker 3: Here we go.

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Speaker 1: False statements and writings they repeat that men many times.

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Speaker 1: Solicitation of violation of oath by public officer, false statements

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Speaker 1: and writings impersonating a public officer. Conspiracy to commit in

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Speaker 1: person to public officer. Oh boy, a lot of that.

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Speaker 1: Conspiracy to commit forgery. So every charge also has more

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Speaker 1: or less a conspiracy charge attached to it as well.

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Speaker 1: So if there was a forgery that they claim was committed,

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Speaker 1: it's also conspiracy to commit the forgery. False statements and writings,

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Speaker 1: false statements and writings, YadA, YadA, et cetera, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. It just goes on and on and on.

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Speaker 1: Violation of the Georgia Rico Racketeer, Influence and Corrupt Organization

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Speaker 1: Act is the top count. Here is the Trump indictment.

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Speaker 1: The person pushing this Fanny Willis here, she is announcing it.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this, and we're going to

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Speaker 1: break more of this down. I have I think a

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Speaker 1: pretty important not just argument, but point of necessary context

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Speaker 1: for all this we're about to dive into.

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Speaker 2: But you should hear.

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Speaker 1: Here's the prosecutor, as we said in Atlanta, Indictment number four,

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Speaker 1: play number one.

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Speaker 4: Every individual charge in the indictment is charged with one

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Speaker 4: count of violating Georgia's Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act

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Speaker 4: through participation in a criminal enterprise in Fulton County, Georgia

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Speaker 4: and elsewhere to accomplish the illegal.

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Speaker 2: Goal of allowing Donald J.

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Speaker 4: Trump to seize the presidential term of office beginning on

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Speaker 4: January twentieth, twenty one. Specifically, the participants in association took

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Speaker 4: various actions in Georgia and elsewhere to block the county

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Speaker 4: of the votes of the presidential electors who were certified

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Speaker 4: as the winners of Georgia's twenty twenty general election.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, First off, the fourth indictment here, just

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Speaker 1: the fact that it's the fourth one tells you a

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Speaker 1: lot about what's going on. You've heard many people say,

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Speaker 1: including Clay and me, about the weaponization of the DOJ

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Speaker 1: for politics. That is now clear. We now live in

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Speaker 1: a country where if you run for higher office and

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Speaker 1: the Democrats decide that you're too much of a threat,

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Speaker 1: they will use the criminal justice system. They will abuse

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Speaker 1: the criminal justice system to take you off the chessboard.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to have to beat you at the

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Speaker 1: ballot box. They would prefer as we see the usage

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Speaker 1: of the law as a weapon of politics, this is

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Speaker 1: one of the most dangerous things for a country that

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Speaker 1: has elections. This is one of the things that can

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Speaker 1: most rapidly create a dissent into full blown tyranny. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I know that sounds like a lot. I know, but

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Speaker 1: look at all the totalitarian impulses of the Democrats as

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Speaker 1: a matter of policy and certainly as a matter of

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Speaker 1: criminal justice. They have no compunction about this. There's no

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Speaker 1: part of them that feels like maybe we're doing something

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Speaker 1: here that has really long term and disastrous ramifications for

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Speaker 1: the country. You know, are there arguments that Trump's team

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Speaker 1: made that I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but I

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Speaker 1: certainly would have never made.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, is it illegal? Is it criminal? No?

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Speaker 1: No, they're criminalizing legal procedure and legal advice, as much

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Speaker 1: as they may think it's a bizarre legal theory. And

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Speaker 1: more to the point, this should be treated as a

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Speaker 1: political question. Do the American people, given all all the facts,

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Speaker 1: given all that we know, and that includes Russia collusion,

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Speaker 1: and that includes all the underhanded efforts to undo the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen election that always gets left out of these

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Speaker 1: conversations with Democrats about January sixth, about Russia collusion, the

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Speaker 1: Special Council, two impeachments. The first one we know is

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Speaker 1: an utter farce. The first one was actually just a

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Speaker 1: straight up lie. Had to do with the It was

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Speaker 1: a perfectly fine phone call. Hunter was selling influence to

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Speaker 1: his dad. He was doing it in Ukraine's Zelenski was

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Speaker 1: talking to Trump. Trump is the chief executive of the

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Speaker 1: United States government. Guess what, Hunter Biden wasn't supposed to

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Speaker 1: have global immunity.

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Speaker 2: But he got it. His daddy became president.

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Speaker 1: And this is what I think, really it all comes

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Speaker 1: down to. Right now, we're gonna have to talk about

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Speaker 1: the jeopardy involved here. Anyone who tells you, because they

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Speaker 1: they're telling people right now a lot of what they

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Speaker 1: want to hear. Anyone who tells you this isn't going

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Speaker 1: to be all four of the indictments enormously challenging for

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Speaker 1: Trump in the election year, and that this isn't election interference,

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Speaker 1: and that this is intended to do anything other than,

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Speaker 1: at a minimum, make it impossible for Trump to run

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Speaker 1: the campaign that he would otherwise run. Is just delusional

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Speaker 1: at this point, right. There's another layer to this, though,

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Speaker 1: and we have to look at this honestly. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you I had some people even after

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Speaker 1: when I said the first indictment was coming and then

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Speaker 1: the second indictment said why are you talking about this?

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Speaker 2: They were upset? Why are you talking? Because this is

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Speaker 2: what the enemy's doing.

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Speaker 1: You know, what can you say about this other than

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Speaker 1: this is the reality of what is coming against us.

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Speaker 1: If I'm saying, hey, guys, the enemies line up artillery pieces,

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Speaker 1: we better get down in the fox hole now because

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Speaker 1: we got incoming. What is the person who runs alongside

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Speaker 1: me and says, don't get into trench. You don't even

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Speaker 1: know if the artillery is coming, where are you?

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Speaker 2: None of that.

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Speaker 1: We have to live in reality here. This is a

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Speaker 1: multi pronged effort to subvert the twenty twenty four election,

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Speaker 1: to destroy Donald Trump, to destroy the MAGA movement. And

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Speaker 1: even if you despise Trump, and there are Republicans who do,

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Speaker 1: you have to see the standard and the precedent and

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Speaker 1: the reality of what is going on here, even if

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Speaker 1: you're a desantist person of a vague person. And Nikki Haley,

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Speaker 1: Tim Scott, Mike Pence, everybody on the right who is

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Speaker 1: technically running for president, and there are people that are

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Speaker 1: supporting all of those candidates, and in some cases a

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Speaker 1: lot of people supporting them, I would think they could

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Speaker 1: recognize that this legal effort against Trump is an abuse,

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Speaker 1: that this is also showing us there's a fundamental difference

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Speaker 1: between the way the Democrat Party approaches power and Republicans.

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Speaker 1: Republicans on our side, we have the people who were saying,

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Speaker 1: first of all, don't talk about the mean things they're

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Speaker 1: gonna do.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to hear about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're an indictment number four, So I'm glad everyone.

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Speaker 1: You know, how many times would it say, oh, it

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Speaker 1: turns out there wasn't gonna be an indictment. No, every

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Speaker 1: time Clay and I have sat here and said to you, guys,

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Speaker 1: I think this indictment's coming any day. Now, let's get

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Speaker 1: ready for it. Let's talk about it, let's analyze it.

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Speaker 1: It has been the case. Okay, we'll have Clay with

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Speaker 1: this in a few minutes. He's three for three in

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Speaker 1: the last few indictments with being out for the day.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that.

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Speaker 2: It's just what are the odds, what are the chances

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Speaker 2: of that?

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Speaker 1: But he'll be with us to weigh in on this

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Speaker 1: from a from a legal perspective shortly, but with all

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Speaker 1: of what we see going on, this is now actually

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Speaker 1: about more than Trump, no matter what somebody thinks about Trump,

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Speaker 1: because it's clearly election interference. It's clearly the magnification of charges.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just look at New York City. It's the exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: It is the politicization of our Justice department to destroy

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Speaker 1: somebody they don't like. Who is the individual or who's

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Speaker 1: going to be able to stand around and say, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm the victim of a crime perpetrated by Donald Trump. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's all conspiracy. The only victim they claim really is

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Speaker 1: the United States government or the state of New York

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Speaker 1: or the state of Georgia. There's something going on here.

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Speaker 1: And I think you need to hear this, because I

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Speaker 1: never lose sight of this. I was as brass knuckled

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Speaker 1: in my defense of Trump during Russia collusion as anybody

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Speaker 1: could be out there, to the point where Trump talked

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Speaker 1: to me about it was grateful for the points I

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Speaker 1: was making as somebody who had an understanding way beyond

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Speaker 1: what basically you know, I don't know ninety nine percent

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Speaker 1: of the commentators, even on the right, understood when it

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Speaker 1: came to intelligence work, espionage, the Faiza courts, all of that.

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Speaker 1: He appreciated the defense, but the defense was more than warranted.

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Speaker 1: It was necessary for Trump, it was necessary for that administration,

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Speaker 1: and it was what was right for the country at

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Speaker 1: the time. What is right for the country in this

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Speaker 1: moment when Hillary Clinton can go on MSNBC and be

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Speaker 1: gleeful and giddy about the destruction of a Republican presidential

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Speaker 1: candidate and former president because her team doesn't like him,

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Speaker 1: what does it say about where we are? Play clip three,

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Speaker 1: Madam Secretary, fancy meeting you.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I can't believe this.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, this is not the circumstances in which I expected to.

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Speaker 1: Be talking to you, nor me. Rachel.

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Speaker 6: It's always good to talk to you, But honestly, I

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Speaker 6: didn't think that it would be under these circumstances, yet

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Speaker 6: another set of indictments.

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Speaker 2: Let me ask you this question.

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Speaker 1: What is the answer when you come across somebody, and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you do, whether it's in your day to

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Speaker 1: day life or you just see their commentary on TV,

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Speaker 1: you stumble in the morning, you know you're looking for

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Speaker 1: Fox and Friends, and you find yourself on Morning Joe

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Speaker 1: for a second, what is their answer to this question?

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Speaker 1: How do they expect people who have voted. I voted

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Speaker 1: for Donald Trump twice. I will vote for Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: again if he is the Republican nominee, and I think

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Speaker 1: he is likely to be. Although I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Nobody he says they know is wrong. No

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Speaker 1: one can predict the future, as I tell you all

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Speaker 1: the time, and that's obviously true. What is their response

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Speaker 1: to this. We are supposed to sit here while in

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Speaker 1: his seventy seventh year of life, a former president is

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Speaker 1: hit with four criminal indictments. We're supposed to sit here

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Speaker 1: and forget about the abusifiza the weaponization of the intelligence

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Speaker 1: and law enforcement community to try to destroy him while

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Speaker 1: he was president and we are to forget that Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton clearly violated the Espionage Act. This is beyond dispute.

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Speaker 1: She did it many times. She did it willfully, she knew,

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Speaker 1: she didn't care, She thought she was above the law.

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Speaker 1: Kind of like Hunter were finding out, is above the law?

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Speaker 1: What do they say to you when you point out,

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Speaker 1: why is it that only our side ever has to

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Speaker 1: pay consequences?

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Speaker 2: Put aside whether or not that's why? Is whether that

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Speaker 2: what Trump did? You think he did do? Didn't do?

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Speaker 1: Democrats get away with it. Democrats get away with it.

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Speaker 1: Hunter Biden, I think is going to get away with

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, and Joe Biden too, and Hillary Clinton

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Speaker 1: and Bill Clinton they got away with and they got

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Speaker 1: away with a lot. That's a whole other conversation. They've

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Speaker 1: gotten away with it. And we know they broke the law.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Bill Clinton led under oath. Put that aside

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Speaker 1: for a second. Although that's certainly we're talking about Hillary

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Speaker 1: Clinton violated the Espionage Act. We know that she also

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Speaker 1: destroyed evidence. We know that when was the last time

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Speaker 1: a high level demo got hit with a process crime

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Speaker 1: and investigation? No, In fact, during the investigation of Hillary's server,

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Speaker 1: remember that They basically deputized Hillary's lawyers to get to

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Speaker 1: play on both sides.

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Speaker 2: They're her lawyers.

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Speaker 1: They're subject the investigation, but they're her lawyers, so they

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Speaker 1: can't actually be pressed in the investigation.

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Speaker 2: It was preposterous. So we're supposed to sit here and say.

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Speaker 1: You your team keeps getting a pass, but Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: has to pay the price until they have an answer

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Speaker 1: for me on that. I don't even want to in

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Speaker 1: all the chirping about all look at the oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: the future of our democracy, it's nonsense to me. What's

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Speaker 1: really at stake here? Do we live in a country

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Speaker 1: where there is some justice, where there is some fairness

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Speaker 1: or not? That's what's on trial here, as much as

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump or anything else. Why does only one side

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Speaker 1: pay the price? We know they've broken the law, don't

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Speaker 1: even get to hear about it. Look, while we talk

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Speaker 1: about the most obvious apparent cre like you know, the

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Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton stuff going on in our country, we often

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Speaker 1: forget to talk about what's going on silently behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: Online identity theft is as prevalent as it has ever been,

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Speaker 1: and it's getting worse and worse out there because they're

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Speaker 1: really clever.

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Speaker 2: They'll send you this happens to me.

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Speaker 1: They'll send you a text message and it'll say, hey,

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Speaker 1: this is your bank, and they'll actually have the name

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Speaker 1: of they did this to me. It was my actual bank.

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Speaker 1: They have the right bank, They knew what kind of

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Speaker 1: account it was. They just wanted a little more info

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Speaker 1: so they could clean out my bank account.

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Speaker 2: That stuff can happen.

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Speaker 1: They can also just get enough of your info, your DOB,

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Speaker 1: your basic information, and then all of a sudden, guess what,

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Speaker 1: they take out loans in your name. Right, This stuff

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Speaker 1: happens all the time, and it's happening to people day

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Speaker 1: in and day out. It's important to understand how cybercrime

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Speaker 1: Lit every Day The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show.

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00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,800
Speaker 1: I'm solo today, except Clay is traveling because you know,

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Speaker 1: there's an indictment, so that means apparrently Clay has to

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Speaker 1: be not planning to do radio, but he is going

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Speaker 1: to join us. He'll be here in a couple of

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Speaker 1: minutes to weigh in on this one. Uh and I

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Speaker 1: even number four, so we will discuss that with him.

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Speaker 1: We've also got Andy McCarthy coming up in a little bit,

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Speaker 1: want to take your calls? What do you think about this?

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Speaker 1: Are you worried about how this shakes out for Trump?

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Speaker 1: In Georgia eight hundred two eighty two two eight eight

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Speaker 1: or you can call them eight for three refunds. That's

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Speaker 1: We wanted to hear from our maid man Clay. He

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Speaker 1: is currently in transit for his book tour.

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Speaker 2: But he has to weigh in Clay just before we

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Speaker 2: get into the latest here.

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Speaker 1: I believe this is now the third time you have

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Speaker 1: tried to have a day off and there has been

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Speaker 1: a Trump indictment.

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Speaker 2: You're three for three?

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Speaker 3: What are the odds? I mean, it's pretty unbelievable when

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Speaker 3: you really break that down. I mean, I haven't even

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Speaker 3: gone away that much for the summer, but every time

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Speaker 3: I've ducked away, and this one is not even really vacation.

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Speaker 3: It's just they couldn't figure out how to get me

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Speaker 3: from Salt Lake City to Houston without somehow infringing on

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Speaker 3: the show. So I'm at the Salt Lake City Airport,

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Speaker 3: got the signing tonight in Katie, Texas, and late last

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Speaker 3: night when I got back from the signing in Salt Lake.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate everybody being there, so many of our listeners,

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Speaker 3: they were fabulous. Everything falls apart again, and I just

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Speaker 3: this one in particular feels so dirty and so calculated,

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Speaker 3: even on a level that the others didn't fuck and

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Speaker 3: unlike the others where you can say, okay, well, this

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Speaker 3: can be cured by winning the presidency by a pardon.

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Speaker 3: This is far more significant in nature than the New

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Speaker 3: York City state charges, and this one I think is

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Speaker 3: going to linger for some time. It's just an unbelievable outrage.

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Speaker 3: But it to me is the worst of the four

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Speaker 3: so far in terms of just what the long range

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Speaker 3: impact is going to be.

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Speaker 1: So do you think I mean our buddy Andy McCarthy,

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Speaker 1: who's going to be joining us later on today Clay

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Speaker 1: on the show, he's been pretty clear. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: thinks that because of both the specifics of George law,

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Speaker 1: state law when it comes to elections, and also the

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Speaker 1: reality that there's no way for there to be a

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Speaker 1: federal presidential pardon or a backing off of the DOJ

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Speaker 1: under sa a Trump or other Republican administration, that this

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Speaker 1: is a uniquely serious problem. Putting aside the unfairness of

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Speaker 1: it and the politicization of it as a threat. He

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Speaker 1: seems to think this is a pretty high one of

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Speaker 1: the four indictments. How do you come down on that?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, because again the federal charges. We've

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Speaker 3: talked about this, I think you can break them down.

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Speaker 3: Miami is relatively serious on the process based crime South Florida,

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Speaker 3: that is, but it's federal charges, and I think the

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Speaker 3: jury and the judge actually are very beneficial to Trump.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 3: The charges in jan six in Washington, d C. To me,

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Speaker 3: as I've laid out, are legally garbage, and again I

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Speaker 3: think they'll get tossed out by the Supreme Court eventually.

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Speaker 3: We've discussed in New York City. I mean, it's a

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Speaker 3: bookkeeper charge, it's a garbage charge in the first place.

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Speaker 3: This one is going to be more challenging because there

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Speaker 3: is no direct pardon mechanism. The Atlanta jury going to

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Speaker 3: be very biased against Trump, and it's in a toss

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Speaker 3: up state, which to me is so significant. As we

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Speaker 3: were talking about yesterday and Buck, what's not mistake what

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Speaker 3: happened here? They listed all of these charges on the

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Speaker 3: Atlanta website Fulton County before there had been any indictment

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Speaker 3: from the grand jury at all. They lied and said

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Speaker 3: it was a fictitious rumor. We talked about this yesterday

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Speaker 3: as soon as Reuters broke this news story, and then

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Speaker 3: the numbers and the charges are the exact same, which

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Speaker 3: is just unprecedented in terms of the rig nature. They

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Speaker 3: were cueued up because they knew that, no matter what

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Speaker 3: they were seeking, this grand jury was going to indict him.

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Speaker 1: What do you think that Trump team's move is going

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Speaker 1: to be in response to this, Like, how do you

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Speaker 1: see this one clay playing out based on the I

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Speaker 1: mean I read the ninety eight pages this morning, and

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Speaker 1: you know this is kitchen sink included for the indictment

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Speaker 1: I mean they're just throwing every you know, every fallse statement,

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Speaker 1: every signature, every everything. Right, They're just trying to throw

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Speaker 1: the count of countless counts at Trump and also the

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Speaker 1: people some of the people around him. Right that you

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Speaker 1: had Mark Meadows, and you have Rudy Giuliani, you have

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Speaker 1: Jenna Ellis, you have other lawyers, other individuals who got

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Speaker 1: caught up in this. How do you think the narrative

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Speaker 1: is framed by the defense and the steps taken by

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Speaker 1: the defense to fight back.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think they'll challenge the grand jury preceding itself

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Speaker 3: based on part of the leak that surrounded this, the

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Speaker 3: fact that it came out before the grand jury it

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Speaker 3: actually indicted. I think it's a two front war in

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Speaker 3: many ways, like many of these are, where you have

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Speaker 3: to both battle the legal and the political ram of

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Speaker 3: the caseations of this case simultaneously. You can't just fight

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Speaker 3: one or the other, and so that becomes a challenge

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Speaker 3: because sometimes some of the arguments that you want to

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Speaker 3: make politically may infringe on the territory of your legal argument.

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Speaker 3: I think still the biggest thing for Trump is going

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Speaker 3: to be they're trying to get this case. I saw

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Speaker 3: last night watching the press conference with Stanny Willis Buck.

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Speaker 3: They're trying to get this done in six months, which

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Speaker 3: would slot it somewhere in right after Jack Smith requested

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Speaker 3: for the Jan sixth hearings. Again, I think that's very ambitious.

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Speaker 3: But if I'm the Trump team, I want to push

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Speaker 3: this all the way so after the election, and then

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Speaker 3: I want to turn if I win, this legal matter

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Speaker 3: into a political one almost entirely. If you are Trump

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Speaker 3: and argue, I think to the Supreme Court, what are

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Speaker 3: you going to try to do here? You can't put

436
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,919
Speaker 3: the sitting president of the United States in prison for

437
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 3: state law violations. So again, I think Trump is going

438
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 3: to be running for president. I think this accelerates it

439
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: and it increases these odds even more so to avoid

440
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 3: having to be put potentially in prison based on a

441
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: conviction in a left wing jurisdiction.

442
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: We're looking clay at let me see here, Rudy Giuliani,

443
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: Mark Meadows, John Eastman, Jeff Clark, Mike Roman, David Schaeffer,

444
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: twelve other people I think that are all indicted. You know,

445
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 1: I know that we focus so much on Trump because

446
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: of while it's Trump and he's running to be president,

447
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 1: he hasn't President.

448
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: Is Rudy Giuliani possibly going to go to prison over this?

449
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,959
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, what do you think about the

450
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: realities of the risks here facing some of the other

451
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 1: people that are very much a part of this Rico indictment.

452
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, Fanny Willis said she wants to

453
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 3: try all nineteen defendants together, which is kind of unheard of.

454
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 3: I mean again, I would image there are I know,

455
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 3: there are a lot of defense attorneys and prosecutors in

456
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,199
Speaker 3: their history out there listening to us right now. I

457
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: can't recall a case of this magnitude. And also, I

458
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 3: think it brings home Buck the scope of what she's

459
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 3: trying to do here. She is trying to not only

460
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,440
Speaker 3: put Trump in prison, She's trying to put an entire

461
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 3: cadre of legal advisors surrounding Trump in prison for the

462
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 3: rest of their life as well. This is an assault

463
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 3: upon the Republican Party the likes of which we've never

464
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 3: seen before, and upon attorneys who are providing legal representation. Now,

465
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 3: I think what she will try to do Buck is

466
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: turn some many of those that are advising Trump that

467
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,880
Speaker 3: they have charged in this case to testify against him

468
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: and argue that he was ultimately the grand couba of

469
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 3: what she believes was a conspiracy to violate federal and

470
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 3: state election law. And obviously she's focused on the state components.

471
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: But again I just look at this and say Trump

472
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 3: Basically the question that everybody has is in the event

473
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 3: that Trump is the is the nominee? And certainly I

474
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 3: saw the pollinge this morning. He's a big favorite, forty

475
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,439
Speaker 3: point lead I think right now in New Hampshire, the

476
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 3: likes of which we haven't seen before. If this indictment

477
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 3: is like any others, that will have a rallying effect,

478
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: Trump will open up an even bigger lead. And in

479
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 3: the next five months is that going to disappear? I

480
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: find that hard to believe. So basically Trump is and

481
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 3: I can't believe this is real. But Trump is going

482
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 3: to be, in my opinion, running for president to try

483
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 3: to keep himself from going to prison, potentially for the

484
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: rest of his life.

485
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 2: What do you make of this one?

486
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: Clay Trump put out on truth Social a large, complex,

487
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: detailed but irrefutable report on the presidential election fraud which

488
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: took place in Georgia. Is almost complete and will be

489
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: presented by me at a major news conference at eleven

490
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: am of next week in Bedminster, New Jersey. Based on

491
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: the results of this conclusive report, all charges should be

492
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: dropped against me and others. There will be a complete exoneration.

493
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: They never went after those that rigged the election. They

494
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 1: only went after those that fought to find those who

495
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: rigged the election. Clay, what do you make of that?

496
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, one, I'll wait and see what his

497
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: defense is. But two, do you Saint Jack Smith and

498
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 3: Fanny Willis and Alvin Bragg and and those three prosecutors

499
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 3: that have brought charges so far, care at all what

500
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's defenses are going to be?

501
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: Not even a little not even a little bit.

502
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm like trying to I'm trying to figure

503
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: out what the Trump play is with this.

504
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 3: Well, I think it's a political play, and he may

505
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 3: have a legal argument that he's going to use in

506
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 3: court as well. I'm not begrudging that. But the impact

507
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: on the people that are trying to put him in

508
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 3: prison for the rest of his life is going to

509
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: be zero. You know, even if Trump came out and

510
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 3: presented stone cold evidence of cheating and rigging, that the

511
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: media and cover it. So I understand again, this goes

512
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: to the two front or that Trump is now fighting

513
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 3: both legal and political, and it sounds like what he's

514
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 3: going to present is going to be both of those.

515
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 3: But I can already probably write what the front page

516
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 3: of the New York Times and the Washington Post is

517
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: going to read the morning after Trump presents his defense,

518
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 3: and it's going to be ridiculing the idea that Trump

519
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: has any defense at all.

520
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,959
Speaker 1: Do you think the judge may we've already seen the

521
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 1: early stages here of protective orders in d C on

522
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: that federal case relating to election twenty twenty and January sixth.

523
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: Do you think Trump may run a foul of the

524
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 1: Georgia judge in this case by talking about the case

525
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: in this way?

526
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, look, this is what I've said from

527
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 3: the get go. Is the biggest peril in the short

528
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 3: term to Trump. I mean, we just saw Sam Bankman

529
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 3: freed have his bail revoked based on his behavior while

530
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 3: he was out of court, and much of that behavior

531
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: was actually trying to defend himself. They are trying to

532
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 3: set traps for Trump, and they're going to set traps

533
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: by trying to get Trump in contempt of court rulings

534
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: as to what he can and cannot say. All of

535
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 3: these judges want to be able, I believe to basically,

536
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 3: you know, put the Trump pelt up on their wall.

537
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: And outside of Eileen Cannon in South Florida, I haven't

538
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: seen any suggestion that there's any remote fairness coming from

539
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 3: the bench towards Donald Trump at all. And that's why

540
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: I said yesterday, bos to me, this is a state

541
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: of Georgia. Interesting question to me, he should have the

542
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: opportunity to remove this case to federal law, federal court

543
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 3: under Georgia law. I would try to pass a law

544
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 3: that would say that that's allowed. Also move it anywhere

545
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: outside of Fulton County. If you move this to any

546
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: other county in Georgia, I really do believe this. I

547
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: think the odds of Trump being convicted on these charges

548
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 3: are virtually zero. But of course they're bringing it in

549
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: the one county where they have a favorite rebel jury

550
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: pool and a favorable disposition towards the idea that Trump

551
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: is a criminal. And that's why, ultimately I come back

552
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 3: to the president. That's being set here is blue city

553
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 3: and blue state jurisdictions have the ability and have now

554
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,120
Speaker 3: shown the willingness to try to put Republican politicians in

555
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 3: prison for the rest of their life. There's no comparable

556
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 3: action that's been undertaken at all by red states or redstictionss.

557
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 3: Democrats look at Hunter Biden. They don't fear the consequences

558
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: of their actions in any way. And Democrats are going

559
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 3: to war with Republicans, and Republicans are turning the other cheek.

560
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,760
Speaker 3: I don't think that's a good combo play.

561
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: First of all, we need you back tomorrow, so make

562
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: sure your flight lands where it needs to land and

563
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: all that. Where are you going tonight for your book

564
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: signing for American Playbook? And are you going to see

565
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: our friends Jesse Kelly and Michael Berry to keep them

566
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: out of trouble potentially.

567
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 3: I was already on Michael Berry's show this morning. I

568
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 3: did Jesse's show last week. I land this afternoon almost

569
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 3: immediately go straight to Katie Texas Books a Millionaire. I'll

570
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: be signing tomorrow. I'll be in Brandon, Florida, which is

571
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: outside of Tampa, doing an event there, and then Thursday,

572
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to be in Nashville back home. So I'll

573
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 3: be back full go tomorrow from our Tampa affiliateate look

574
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 3: forward to that hold down the Ford until then, and

575
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 3: I'm legitimately hopping a flight right now, So look forward

576
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 3: to seeing people tonight in Katie, Texas.

577
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: Look at how the man is going around to see

578
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: all of our people. Buy your copy of American Playbook,

579
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: Play's Book, which is out now, Clay, We'll talk to

580
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 1: you more tomorrow.

581
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 3: Appreciate it, my man, I'll see tomorrow.

582
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Born from the tragedy of nine to eleven, the Taunt

583
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: the Towers Foundation has been delivering on its promise to

584
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: do good and never forget the sacrifices of America's greatest heroes,

585
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: Heroes who put their lives on the line to protect

586
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: our country and our communities. Heroes like Bristol, Connecticut police

587
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: Sergeant Dustin Demonti, responding to a domestic violence incident, he

588
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 1: sustained fatal gunshot wounds. He left behind his expectant wife

589
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: and two children. Thanks to the generosity of people like you,

590
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: Tunnel To Towers paid the mortgage on the Demante family home,

591
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: lifting a financial burden. As his loved ones mourned the

592
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 1: decorated officers lost, they welcome to miracle the child he

593
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: would never get to meet. So many families need your help.

594
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 1: Please help America's heroes and their young families. Join Tunnel

595
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: the Towers on its mission to do good in their honor.

596
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: Ninety five cents out of every dollar you donate goes

597
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: to their programs. Join us in donating eleven dollars a

598
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 1: month the Tunnel to Towers at T two t dot org.

599
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 1: That's t the number two t dot org.

600
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 3: Heard it on the shelf here. More on the podcast

601
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 3: Clay and Buck podcast, Deep Dives, more contents, more common sense.

602
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 2: Find the guys on the iHeart.

603
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: App or wherever you get your podcasts.

604
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 1: Andy McCarthy's gonna be with us at the top of

605
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,719
Speaker 1: the next hour or so. In just a few minutes,

606
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: we'll break down all the legal realities that Trump faces. Now,

607
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: this is all crazy, you know. It's not that you're

608
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: crazy or I'm crazy. This is a crazy situation. You

609
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: have the leading Republican presidential contender and a former president

610
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,240
Speaker 1: facing four criminal in dietments.

611
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you addle this together.

612
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: He could theoretically be sentenced to hundreds of years in prison.

613
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 1: That is a true statement, right, I think it's seventy

614
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 1: five would be the max on the max. Now he's

615
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: not going to get the max. He's not going to

616
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: be guilty in all these places. And I'm just saying,

617
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: the legal system right now is threatening to send Donald

618
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,720
Speaker 1: Trump to prison for hundreds of years theoretically.

619
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: Right, it's pretty crazy.

620
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: For what Oh boy, We'll talk to Andy about that

621
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 1: and more. Kelly in Utah, what's going on?

622
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 2: Kelly?

623
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 5: Hey, you asked a question a minute ago. Does it matter?

624
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 5: And I'm saying, yes, it matters. This is their playbook.

625
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 5: They're not afraid of anything. They'll push on all of

626
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 5: us all the time. And Rush always said, this is

627
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,640
Speaker 5: what they do to a Donald Trump, to an outsider,

628
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,319
Speaker 5: They ruin you and they send a message. And that's

629
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 5: exactly what's happening here. And it is.

630
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: Scary, alrighty, And wait, there's one more thing. I see

631
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: hear your daughter was at the book signing last night

632
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: for Clay and.

633
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 5: You till Yes, my daughter Ashley and her daughter Olivia

634
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 5: were there. They drove an out and they waited for

635
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 5: a few minutes. Clay came out of the car and

636
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 5: shook all their hands. They only waited a few minutes

637
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 5: and they got to the front, bought their book, and

638
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 5: he spent a good amount of time with them, and

639
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 5: they said he was so handsome and so nice, and

640
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 5: they were so impressed.

641
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: This is Clay's favorite call. I could assure you of

642
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: the month. So I will make sure he's not he's

643
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: on a plane. We'll make sure we get this to him.

644
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: And that's great that your daughter and granddaughter had to

645
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 1: had such a good time at play.

646
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: He's a super nice and generous guy. Don't tell him

647
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: I told you that, though.

648
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna come back in with Anny McCarthy

649
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: here in just a in just a few minutes. I've

650
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: got something else though for you. A bit of breaking

651
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: news via via Twitter and Georgia Trump and Yes, Governor Kemp.

652
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: Governor Kemp has weighed in on this Trump indictment. I

653
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: will tell you what he has said in response to it.

654
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: You need to hear it.

655
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: I don't know if you were going to want to

656
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: hear it necessarily, but we need to talk about the

657
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,280
Speaker 1: situation in Georgia. Clay just texted me actual you'd already said,

658
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: I don't think Kemp's gonna be Trump's VP. He's right

659
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,799
Speaker 1: about that one. We'll address that in just a few

660
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 1: moments here stick around MHM Slay Travis, and Buck Sexton

661
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: on the front lines of truth,