WEBVTT - Future Shock: Part I

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your Mind.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm truly declare Julie.

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<v Speaker 1>I was on the way to work this morning, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was waiting on the train at the station. And then,

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<v Speaker 1>as sometimes happens in our modern world on a Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 1>I looked over. I saw a robotic humanoid standing there

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<v Speaker 1>reading a kindle, and uh, you know, I just shut down.

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<v Speaker 1>I just I just started screaming. And then it was

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<v Speaker 1>like a silent stream, you know, clutching my face. And

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<v Speaker 1>then I'm just just crawl into a into a corner

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<v Speaker 1>of the martat station and I just hold myself for

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<v Speaker 1>about fifteen twenty minutes until someone comes. Then came in

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<v Speaker 1>an administered medication to me, to to to wake me

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<v Speaker 1>back up and get me back in my body and

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<v Speaker 1>move me again. Yeah. Classic case of RS replicant shock. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a s upset, a future shock, future shocked. Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a It's a wonderful concept and at heart it deals

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<v Speaker 1>with change, with the rate of change in our world. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, generation after generation, we we of course clan

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<v Speaker 1>to illusions of consistency of continuity, as we discussed in

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<v Speaker 1>a recent episode, but we're always in the state of

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<v Speaker 1>constant change. Our society is, our bodies are, our science

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<v Speaker 1>or art, our values or technology. Everything is really in

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<v Speaker 1>the state of flux. But we end up sort of clinging.

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<v Speaker 1>I think to these these illusions that that there's a

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<v Speaker 1>set way that things should be. You know, well, I

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<v Speaker 1>think because change illustrates to us that time is ephemeral,

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<v Speaker 1>it's passing, and change is a real marker, right It's saying, essentially, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>guess what You're gonna die one day, and that's a bummer.

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<v Speaker 1>Nobody wants that. And we've talked about this before in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of normalcy bias. You know, even though we know

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<v Speaker 1>it changes on the horizon or there's something that we

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<v Speaker 1>need to re act to, a lot of us just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of go back to the baseline and like to

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<v Speaker 1>assume that everything is going to remain the same, even

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<v Speaker 1>though we have evidence swirling around us all the time

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<v Speaker 1>that changes happening. It's interesting. I think back to when

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<v Speaker 1>I was a kid trying to imagine what I would

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<v Speaker 1>be like as an adult, and it's this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>weird mix of ideas because obviously there were plenty of

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<v Speaker 1>sci fi ideas around me, and sci fi ideas about

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<v Speaker 1>what the future might might consist of, and so to

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<v Speaker 1>a certain extent, I might have imagined myself going into

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<v Speaker 1>space or that maybe being in the cards, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>But still my idea of my immediate future self and

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<v Speaker 1>my immediate surroundings was very much based in my present

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<v Speaker 1>of the time, without you know, without wow giving it

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of thought. But it was kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>the default setting, and we base our assumptions on the

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<v Speaker 1>most readily available model. I think that's because there's so

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<v Speaker 1>much routinization in our lives that it gives us this

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<v Speaker 1>false sense of continuity, and we're doing the same thing

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<v Speaker 1>over day in and day out, and so you get

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<v Speaker 1>the sense that there maybe maybe there is a stasis.

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<v Speaker 1>But also some of it is just rooted and past thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>past structures and audiologies, um. And I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>this the other day. We are at a point in

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<v Speaker 1>history technologically at least, where we can actually look back

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<v Speaker 1>in the universe past and understand that the universe has

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<v Speaker 1>always been changing and there's a constant rate of change,

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<v Speaker 1>uh in effect, and we look at this just in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of something like the cosmic background radiation that we

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<v Speaker 1>can measure and we can say, oh, you know, after

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<v Speaker 1>the Big Bang, it wasn't just you know, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>this void. There was always something that was going on,

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<v Speaker 1>and there were a great many changes that were only

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<v Speaker 1>now beginning to completely um understand in this coherent way

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<v Speaker 1>that the physical world is about entropy. Yeah. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you look back at older our k given primitive views

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<v Speaker 1>of the universe, and not all of them, but a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of them were exceedingly human centric. They time began

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<v Speaker 1>with humans, and if it ended, it ends with humans.

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<v Speaker 1>And our modern understanding is, of course that we're just

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<v Speaker 1>this blip on the on the cosmic timeline, and there

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<v Speaker 1>are things that have existed before, things that will exist afterwards.

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<v Speaker 1>Like we're essentially we're like beta max in the technological timeline,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. And at the time, it seems like we're

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<v Speaker 1>the most important. It seems like we're we're the thing.

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<v Speaker 1>But VHS is just around the corner, uh, compact us

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<v Speaker 1>just around the corner, the Blu ray digital, all of

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<v Speaker 1>it's coming well. And it's interesting that you say that

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<v Speaker 1>you you point to technology as a way to begin

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<v Speaker 1>to mark the passing of time. And if you look

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<v Speaker 1>at Moore's law, um, this is something that is the

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<v Speaker 1>idea that computing power doubles every two years, which brings

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<v Speaker 1>more and more features and greater rates of change in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of our technology. But Moore's law isn't just a law,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's a it's ah, this very real idea that

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<v Speaker 1>is playing out that the juggernaut of technology is real,

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<v Speaker 1>if not in our minds. And so we begin to

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<v Speaker 1>see More's law at play in all sectors of our lives,

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<v Speaker 1>things seeming to speed up. Yeah, innovation feeds back on

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<v Speaker 1>the innovation of computing. Processes just become more and more

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<v Speaker 1>complicated and more and more powerful, and eventually, hypothetically we

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<v Speaker 1>reach that point where computer aies reach and surpass human

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<v Speaker 1>cognitive power. Uh, the technological singularity. That's right, when when

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<v Speaker 1>computers just kick us to the curb because they're like, wow,

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<v Speaker 1>really that's all you guys got. But in the meantime,

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<v Speaker 1>computers have also created just an intense amount of data,

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<v Speaker 1>and some would say that data would then give us

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<v Speaker 1>so much information to make choices about that we would

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<v Speaker 1>be in a state of over choice or information overload.

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<v Speaker 1>And we owe this term as well as a number

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<v Speaker 1>of terms we're gonna talk about here in the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and the overall theme of Future Shock to Alvin and

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<v Speaker 1>Heidi Toffler, authors of the Future Shock. Yes, Howdie Toddler

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<v Speaker 1>is an unacknowledged co author, but of course later on

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<v Speaker 1>after publication she became known as the person who also

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<v Speaker 1>influenced this book quite a deal. But in Future Shock,

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<v Speaker 1>they write, if over stimulation at the sensory level increases

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<v Speaker 1>the distortion with which we perceive reality, cognitive over stimulation

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<v Speaker 1>interferes with our ability to think. This was the first

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<v Speaker 1>time people had said, hey, look, let's take a big

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<v Speaker 1>view of what's going on, what's happened in the past,

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<v Speaker 1>what's happening in the present, in the future, and see

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<v Speaker 1>this rate of change and how it's affecting us. What

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<v Speaker 1>I love about Future Shock is that it is prophetic

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<v Speaker 1>in places, its hyperbolic in places. Uh, there's stuff that

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<v Speaker 1>holds up, there's stuff that doesn't hold up. We're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>talk about all of that in this podcast. But in

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<v Speaker 1>it's in what it gets right and in what it

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<v Speaker 1>gets wrong. It's it stands as this, uh, this this

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<v Speaker 1>potent exat ample of of how we've come to view

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<v Speaker 1>the future and and also you know, our fear of

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<v Speaker 1>the future, our fear of change and uh. And I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like anytime we're we're contemplating our fears, including the

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<v Speaker 1>fear of the future, the fear of change, the fear

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<v Speaker 1>of impermanence, you have to have a certain about amount

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<v Speaker 1>of overreaction built into the model. You know. It's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of like, uh, the idea of of monsters as symbols,

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<v Speaker 1>and they symbolize things about ourselves in our lives, and

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<v Speaker 1>they often have to be outrageous examples to drive home

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<v Speaker 1>something that is less frightening at times. Well, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it's not so much frightening to us anymore because a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the concepts that are covered in this nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>one book are kind of old hat for us now.

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<v Speaker 1>But at the time it must have been just terrifying

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<v Speaker 1>to people. And I think that that is borne out

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<v Speaker 1>in the numbers, because if you look at this book

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<v Speaker 1>of something like six million copies worldwide, in the first year,

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<v Speaker 1>there were fifteen printings of this book and it's shot

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<v Speaker 1>up on the best seller lists. So people had very

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<v Speaker 1>real reaction to this idea. Because I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>probably the first time that that people had really stepped

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<v Speaker 1>back in this way and presented all of the information

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<v Speaker 1>and all the change that was on the horizon based

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<v Speaker 1>on the evidence at that time. And UM, now if

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<v Speaker 1>you look at this era of the nineteen seventies, this

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<v Speaker 1>is an important era because there's so much stuff going

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<v Speaker 1>on here. I mean, you have the whole peace and

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<v Speaker 1>love thing which is disintegrating. Um, You're seeing a lot

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<v Speaker 1>more strife, economic imbalance, violence. Um. The culture of the

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<v Speaker 1>seventies is it's just itself very interesting. Yeah, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>just think about some of the things we have going

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<v Speaker 1>on during this era. We have all the psychedelic drugs,

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<v Speaker 1>we have Vietnam, we have rock and Roll still going strong,

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<v Speaker 1>we have oh yeah between two man was visiting the

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<v Speaker 1>moon and uh, and it seemed like we would continue

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<v Speaker 1>to maybe do that the in the following decades. You

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<v Speaker 1>have the birth of modern computing, the world's first general microprocessor,

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<v Speaker 1>the Intel four thousand and four, which came out the

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<v Speaker 1>in seventy one. You have fiber optics, you have microwave ovens,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have a lot of big changes that are occurring.

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<v Speaker 1>You have birth control, birth control, a lot of this

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<v Speaker 1>is huge. And then the sort of base stock of

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<v Speaker 1>all of this. I think of it this way, is

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<v Speaker 1>that science fiction has been in full bloom since the fifties. Right. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you have Philip K. Dicks do Androids, dream of Electric Sheep, Right,

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<v Speaker 1>so you have all these ideas swirling around on how

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<v Speaker 1>humanity is changing and how it could potentially change in

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<v Speaker 1>the future. Yeah, and I think you know, in the

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<v Speaker 1>in the previous decades, you saw plenty of these like

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<v Speaker 1>short films like The Kitchen of Tomorrow, you know, and

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<v Speaker 1>these ideas of how technology was gonna affect the way

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<v Speaker 1>we live, but they seemed a little a little further

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<v Speaker 1>off in the future. But by the seventies were really

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<v Speaker 1>really seeing things begin to integrate around us. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of like that that day when you realize that

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<v Speaker 1>some life event or some work uh deadline that had

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<v Speaker 1>been approaching is now here and you realize, Wow, the

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<v Speaker 1>future is here, in a in a in a way,

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<v Speaker 1>in a shape that I'm not quite ready for. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And um, you know, before, like you said, in the nineties,

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<v Speaker 1>it was all kind of shiny and new and you know, futurist.

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<v Speaker 1>And look, this product is going to make your life

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<v Speaker 1>so much easier and then you fast forward to the

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<v Speaker 1>seventies and there's a lot of different fracturing going on

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<v Speaker 1>in society. And so Alvin Toffler, who at times has

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<v Speaker 1>been a student, radical, a welder, a newspaper reporter, and

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<v Speaker 1>Fortune editor um, he and his wife Heidi decided to

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<v Speaker 1>try to describe the psychological state for individuals and societies

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<v Speaker 1>who hold this perception that there's too much change into

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<v Speaker 1>short of a time period, and that there's no acknowledgement

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<v Speaker 1>that there's this enormous structure all change going on, and

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<v Speaker 1>that we're transitioning. This is really important from an industrial

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<v Speaker 1>society to what they call a super industrial society. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the one criterion for for for UM trying to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out what is super industrial side as opposed to industrial

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<v Speaker 1>society is that there's more laborers and post industrial businesses

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<v Speaker 1>than in agriculture based businesses. And of course we do

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<v Speaker 1>see this, we see this flip a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>going to post industrial um types of companies during this time, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So that example I gave at the beginning of the

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<v Speaker 1>episode about just sort of shutting down psychologically mar On Marta,

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<v Speaker 1>when you see an android or something that is in

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<v Speaker 1>a kind of handy way. The essence of future shock

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<v Speaker 1>the future doesn't always all the interpretations don't necessarily involve

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<v Speaker 1>like complete physical shutting down or madness. It's not future

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<v Speaker 1>madness per se. But we're talking about the perceived premature

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<v Speaker 1>arrival of the future. We're talking about the shock of

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<v Speaker 1>rapid change. We're talking about too much change in too

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<v Speaker 1>short of time. And it's important to note that all

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<v Speaker 1>of these things, it's going to depend on who's viewing

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<v Speaker 1>the present and who and what their idea of the

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<v Speaker 1>future is. It's gonna vary from case to case, right,

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<v Speaker 1>what's your perception of change in the world. For instance,

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<v Speaker 1>in a Wired article by Jason Kingdom, he referred to

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<v Speaker 1>quote Van Winkle syndrome, which is sort of a take

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<v Speaker 1>on future shock. And this is the idea that you

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<v Speaker 1>feel amazed and bamboozled on stumbling over an innovation that

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<v Speaker 1>you've failed to notice before. So you know, it's easy

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<v Speaker 1>you can have something like future shock based on something

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<v Speaker 1>that is actually not new at all. You just you

0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.040
<v Speaker 1>did weren't aware of. And if you have a hyper

0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.080
<v Speaker 1>awareness of what is going on in the tech, the

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:48.600
<v Speaker 1>tech industries and and in in culture, then you're maybe

0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.120
<v Speaker 1>not gonna be shocked by by the next h you know,

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:54.480
<v Speaker 1>bit on the local news about what the youth are doing. Now.

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:56.439
<v Speaker 1>One of the reasons why we really wanted to cover

0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:00.200
<v Speaker 1>this topic in this book is because, um, and some

0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:02.719
<v Speaker 1>ways we feel this way today, right, we feel like

0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:06.480
<v Speaker 1>we are completely inundated with data. We are um you

0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 1>know sometimes uh met with a lot of anxiety and

0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.600
<v Speaker 1>paralysis about all the choices before us. So the reason

0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>that Future Shock is so interesting the book is because

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:21.320
<v Speaker 1>it is a very thoughtful treatment of this topic. And

0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.440
<v Speaker 1>some of the stuff is still relevant today and some

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.320
<v Speaker 1>of it, um, you know, the Toppler's got wrong, and

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:28.319
<v Speaker 1>we'll discuss what they got right and what they got wrong.

0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:30.840
<v Speaker 1>But at the heart of it is this idea of

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>trying to um understand how these abstract and concrete systems

0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 1>are working together on the human being. And this was

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.400
<v Speaker 1>something that was that was captured in a documentary in

0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 1>nineteen two. It doesn't quite I don't think it quite

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.959
<v Speaker 1>gives justice to the book, because I think it plays

0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.719
<v Speaker 1>more on the sort of alarmist, the Cassandra elements of

0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 1>the book. Because I really actually feel like the book

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 1>is presented in a in a kind of calm manner

0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:58.839
<v Speaker 1>and just saying, well, these are the things that are

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.880
<v Speaker 1>going on right now. Um, but it does have this

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 1>sort of reefer madness flavor to it that I really love. Yeah,

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.480
<v Speaker 1>the book is is absolutely wonderful and and and it

0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 1>is still in print. You can still get a copy

0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:15.000
<v Speaker 1>of it. I highly recommend anyone who's interested to pick

0:14:15.040 --> 0:14:16.760
<v Speaker 1>it up. I mean you do have to put yourself

0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:18.840
<v Speaker 1>in the mindset a little bit and realize that this

0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:23.000
<v Speaker 1>is a voice of the nineteen seventies speaking to the

0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 1>people of the nineteen seventies. For instance, that he uses

0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 1>the term ropot here a robot here, Yeah, who works

0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.000
<v Speaker 1>on artificial intelligence. So there's some very quaint terms in there. Well,

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.080
<v Speaker 1>he's also coining a lot of terms too, So um,

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 1>there are there are a lot of words that he's

0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 1>rolling out that that I later realized, oh, well he

0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.440
<v Speaker 1>invented That's he's the first person who is actually talking

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.240
<v Speaker 1>about this particular com Hetty Toddler actually is the person

0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.160
<v Speaker 1>who um created the aphorism that the only thing that

0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 1>says the same as change. Um. Yes, but but if

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:57.720
<v Speaker 1>you if you can't get ahold of the book, or

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 1>you're not sure you want to do. Check out the documentary.

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.280
<v Speaker 1>It's been in its entirety on YouTube for like almost

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:07.280
<v Speaker 1>ten years now, so it's I'm pretty sure you'll be

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 1>able to find it. But they made the documentary in

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:13.800
<v Speaker 1>seventy two. It is narrated by Orson Wells, the great

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:18.040
<v Speaker 1>Orson Wells Um who was also great in Size and

0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Uh and you think maybe a little bit intoxicated. He

0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.880
<v Speaker 1>seems a little intoxicated. And in the clips that I

0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.960
<v Speaker 1>saw and he's kind of a turtleneck wearing cigar puffing.

0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 1>He It opens with him on a airport moving walkway.

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.560
<v Speaker 1>He's kind of lumbering down that. Oh yeah, And that's

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 1>after our fantastic intro where there's a couple walking towards

0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the camera in a park setting. We can't quite see

0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>their face because the gleam of the sun, and then

0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:45.960
<v Speaker 1>when they get closer, the blur moves out, the glare

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:48.480
<v Speaker 1>goes away, and we see that their robots. And there's

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.160
<v Speaker 1>this wonderful music because, as it turns out, um the

0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>musician gil Melli did the music for the Future Shock

0:15:57.000 --> 0:16:00.400
<v Speaker 1>short film, and this is the same artist responsible for

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 1>the soundtrack for the film The Andromeda Strain as well

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>as Night Gallery the classic Rod Serling. So that's why

0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.320
<v Speaker 1>it has that refrimendous sense to it, like that wonderful,

0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.760
<v Speaker 1>ominous music with a little jazz, but also some some

0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>wonderful synthesizer effects going on. So even if you're just

0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:23.040
<v Speaker 1>a fan of crazy cool voiceovers and and weird seventies uh,

0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, the weird seventies look and feel of things,

0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:29.960
<v Speaker 1>than Future Shock, the documentary is definitely worth checking out. Yeah,

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:32.680
<v Speaker 1>it's great. Orson Well says, in the course of my work,

0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.160
<v Speaker 1>which has taken me to just about every corner of

0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the globe, I see many aspects of a phenomenon which

0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>I am just beginning to understand. Our modern technologies have

0:16:42.240 --> 0:16:46.440
<v Speaker 1>changed the degree of sophistication beyond our wildest dreams. But

0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.440
<v Speaker 1>this technology has exacted a pretty heavy price. We live

0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.840
<v Speaker 1>in an age of anxiety and time of stress, and

0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 1>with all of our sophistication, we are in fact the

0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.160
<v Speaker 1>victims of our own technological strength. We are the victims

0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:06.480
<v Speaker 1>of shock. Future shocked. Nice, that's not really well, but

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, you get yeah, but you definitely get a

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.919
<v Speaker 1>sense of it because there's a there's a gravity to everything.

0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.639
<v Speaker 1>He's saying, and there there's a there's a fear that

0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.639
<v Speaker 1>the film really does turn the dial up on the

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:22.680
<v Speaker 1>fear factor of future shock and and at times it's

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 1>it's hammy and hilarious and and and I love it,

0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.080
<v Speaker 1>like when he's talking about an artificial elbow being quote

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:34.160
<v Speaker 1>one more step towards an artificial man, which yes, technically,

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:35.879
<v Speaker 1>Like there's a whole scene there where they talk about

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.480
<v Speaker 1>about that some of the health topics, and they show

0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 1>an individual whose life was saved by I can't remember

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.080
<v Speaker 1>his artificial heart, art artificial heart valve or some sort

0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.000
<v Speaker 1>of device, but they managed to make it seem a

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>little scary and you have to step outside of me, like, wait,

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>this technology saved this guy's life, while are you trying

0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>to convince me to be afraid of this? And and

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.120
<v Speaker 1>that it's just a slippery slope to androids because it's

0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Toppler in the brings us up sort of obliquely like

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:03.720
<v Speaker 1>at what point, and we've talked about this before, like

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 1>at what point are you augmenting ourselves and becoming transhuman now? Again,

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Toughler just sort of puts that out there in the book. Um,

0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:12.760
<v Speaker 1>and it's not as if he's saying that if you

0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.960
<v Speaker 1>have a pacemaker, you are all of a sudden not human.

0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 1>But he's bringing up the question of what direction are

0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.200
<v Speaker 1>we moving? Yeah. One of the important things to keep

0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.320
<v Speaker 1>in mind about Future Shock is that, even though it's

0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.720
<v Speaker 1>it's fun to focus on some of these uh sort

0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:26.639
<v Speaker 1>of you know, fear of the youth, fear of the

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.119
<v Speaker 1>technology aspects, so much of it is about, first of all,

0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.000
<v Speaker 1>how is this technology affecting me in my perception of

0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:33.879
<v Speaker 1>the world, my ability to work with the world, But

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:36.520
<v Speaker 1>also how our advances in technology, how are changes in

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 1>society and culture, how are they affecting systems that are

0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:43.280
<v Speaker 1>already in place in the world. Um. One one particular

0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 1>aspect that is not mentioned in the book that instantly

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:47.760
<v Speaker 1>comes to mind here is, of course, when you see

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.440
<v Speaker 1>uh say uh, the Internet arriving and that being ahead

0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 1>of various UH industries and systems, such as how a

0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>napster affected the music industry, where music sharing in our

0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 1>ability to digitally use music was way ahead of the

0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.560
<v Speaker 1>industry's ability to regulate it or or may make money

0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:11.080
<v Speaker 1>off of it and even understand it, and so a

0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.320
<v Speaker 1>certain amount of chaos erupted out of that and we

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:15.960
<v Speaker 1>still do a certain extent are are are dealing with

0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.639
<v Speaker 1>the after effects of that. Yeah, and actually Toddlers, they

0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:21.000
<v Speaker 1>would say that right now that there's not the infrastructure

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.000
<v Speaker 1>that's needed still that we intellectually intellectually property rights are

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.840
<v Speaker 1>just one example of how, you know, the law has

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.639
<v Speaker 1>not really kept up with what's going on on a

0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>technological level. And we'll talk more about that and some

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.000
<v Speaker 1>of their ideas about how we are still lagging behind

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.440
<v Speaker 1>in those departments. But let's talk about some of the

0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.200
<v Speaker 1>themes covered in this book before we talk about what

0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.800
<v Speaker 1>the Toddlers got wrong. And we are talking about twenty

0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:50.600
<v Speaker 1>chapters with main themes and then about a hundred and

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:54.600
<v Speaker 1>eight sub topics. So really the Toddlers took a massive

0:19:55.119 --> 0:19:57.680
<v Speaker 1>introspective look into what was going on and really tried

0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:00.760
<v Speaker 1>to cover all of the ground that they could. And

0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.479
<v Speaker 1>that's why it's such an amazing book. Yeah, it's one

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.840
<v Speaker 1>of those books. You know, sometimes you read really important

0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.040
<v Speaker 1>works and you think I could have written that. But

0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Future Shock is one of those books that I look

0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:12.600
<v Speaker 1>at and I'm just in awe and how thorough it is.

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:15.120
<v Speaker 1>Because some of some of the topics that they cover

0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.560
<v Speaker 1>here include UM over choice, pressure to keep up with

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 1>the latest technology, rapidly expanding knowledge, information overload, computer field society,

0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 1>temporary consumer culture, UM, youth movements, new transient lifestyles, instant intimacy, cyborgs,

0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:38.320
<v Speaker 1>modular bodies, cybernetics, plastic surgery, UM, as well as robotics,

0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.880
<v Speaker 1>changing the definition of man, artificial insemination, test two babies,

0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:47.639
<v Speaker 1>changing families, group marriages, communes, pornography, UH, general unrest, genetics,

0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:53.680
<v Speaker 1>genetic arm races, genetic engineering, mind and body control, cloning. UM.

0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.000
<v Speaker 1>It just see it just it just changes and changes

0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.040
<v Speaker 1>and changes at every level of of our existence, every

0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:03.080
<v Speaker 1>level of our current nineteen seventies world. Yeah, and it's

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:05.800
<v Speaker 1>it's really interesting the way that he approaches them because

0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 1>something like um, the artificial elbow, you know that that

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>might lead to the cyborgs among us, which is actually

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:15.560
<v Speaker 1>a chapter title. UM. He's basing that on what he

0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.919
<v Speaker 1>sees as modularism in architecture, because he's seeing this in

0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 1>other sectors of industry, like you have this push toward

0:21:23.600 --> 0:21:26.760
<v Speaker 1>trying to make things compact, trying to make things so

0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:30.440
<v Speaker 1>that they can be transported and changed up. And he's

0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:34.160
<v Speaker 1>beginning to see in robotics, the infancy of this where

0:21:34.200 --> 0:21:36.679
<v Speaker 1>the same sort of thing is happening with the human

0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:41.040
<v Speaker 1>body in terms of trying to replace parts or make

0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:45.119
<v Speaker 1>them more adaptable. And that's what's so interesting about it.

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 1>Just the way that he's coming at this, or I

0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.800
<v Speaker 1>should say he and his wife, Heidi Toffler coming at this,

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 1>is that they're really basing that on the sort of

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:55.960
<v Speaker 1>things that they are seeing. And it's not just in robotics,

0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.840
<v Speaker 1>but you know, spreading out through society. And I just

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:01.520
<v Speaker 1>wanted to read this one little bit that Toffler says

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:03.959
<v Speaker 1>about unrest and young people. And he talks a lot

0:22:03.960 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 1>about young people. It's really interesting. I mean, we have

0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.640
<v Speaker 1>to because it's it kind of goes back to Yates Byzantium.

0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Uh that no country for old men. We've always been

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:14.720
<v Speaker 1>afraid of what the young people are doing and what

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.399
<v Speaker 1>changes they're going to bring to our world. Yeah, but

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:19.959
<v Speaker 1>it's the youth culture and and one I think one

0:22:19.960 --> 0:22:22.919
<v Speaker 1>of the chapters two is like the youth ghetto. But

0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.240
<v Speaker 1>he says it is clear that many of our young people,

0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:29.119
<v Speaker 1>products of television and instant access to oceans of information,

0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:33.919
<v Speaker 1>also become precocious intellectually but what happens to emotional development

0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:38.880
<v Speaker 1>as the ratio of vicarious experience to real experience rises.

0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.040
<v Speaker 1>Does the step up of vicariousness contribute to emotional maturity

0:22:43.160 --> 0:22:45.320
<v Speaker 1>or does it in fact retard it? This is these

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 1>are the same sort of conversations that we're having today, Exactly.

0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:50.439
<v Speaker 1>I think about that every time I used tumbler, because

0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.080
<v Speaker 1>a lot of a lot of young people used tumbler

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.719
<v Speaker 1>as well as myself. So yeah, and we'll get more

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:57.840
<v Speaker 1>into that, but let's take a quick break and when

0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 1>we get back, we'll talk about what futures talk the

0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:11.199
<v Speaker 1>book got wrong. All right, we're back. You know you

0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:14.720
<v Speaker 1>mentioned some movies of the future, and in reading future Chalk,

0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.360
<v Speaker 1>I couldn't help but think a blade Runner and replicants

0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:23.000
<v Speaker 1>because the Toffler's touch on this this idea that one

0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:26.600
<v Speaker 1>day we could have clones or we could have robots

0:23:26.680 --> 0:23:29.520
<v Speaker 1>of ourselves, and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Yes,

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.520
<v Speaker 1>So the idea that I think the example is that

0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.480
<v Speaker 1>you go to the store and there's a young woman

0:23:34.520 --> 0:23:37.200
<v Speaker 1>behind the register, and you have to have that moment

0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.800
<v Speaker 1>we try and figure out is she a real person

0:23:41.080 --> 0:23:43.600
<v Speaker 1>or is she a computer? Is she a machine of

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 1>some sort, and Topfler, of course suggests she might be

0:23:46.440 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>both that the answer could be a little calm, a

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:51.680
<v Speaker 1>little calm beat huh. And then he's got an asterisk

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:53.600
<v Speaker 1>next to that. And if you follow that asterix, it

0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.919
<v Speaker 1>actually says I'm paraphrasing. But by the way, this kind

0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:01.520
<v Speaker 1>of brings up, you know, sexual ethics between men and machine,

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.639
<v Speaker 1>and we probably should figure that out one day. Although

0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:06.600
<v Speaker 1>thankfully he doesn't go deeply into that topic, or maybe

0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.000
<v Speaker 1>too bad he doesn't. I mean, indeed, that's a whole

0:24:09.040 --> 0:24:10.720
<v Speaker 1>topic right there. I think we've touched on that a

0:24:10.760 --> 0:24:13.239
<v Speaker 1>time or two in turn. And when we, you know,

0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 1>to discussed human robot interactions and the idea of love

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.760
<v Speaker 1>machines for lack of a better term. Yes, now, um,

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:25.359
<v Speaker 1>In terms of cloning or creating super races, the book

0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:27.560
<v Speaker 1>says we are hurtling towards the time and we will

0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:32.040
<v Speaker 1>be able to breed both super and sub races. As

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Theodore Jay Gordon put it, in the future, given the

0:24:35.280 --> 0:24:37.879
<v Speaker 1>ability to taylor the race, I wonder if we would

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:41.800
<v Speaker 1>create all men equal, or would we choose to manufacture apartheid.

0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:45.399
<v Speaker 1>Might the races of the future be a superior group,

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the DNA controllers, the humble servants, special athletes for the games,

0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.800
<v Speaker 1>research scientists with two i Q and aminutive bodies. And

0:24:54.840 --> 0:24:56.119
<v Speaker 1>then he goes on to say, we shall have the

0:24:56.119 --> 0:25:00.760
<v Speaker 1>power to produce races of morons or of mathematic savalants.

0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.359
<v Speaker 1>We shall also be able to breed babies with super

0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:05.639
<v Speaker 1>normal vision and hearing, and go on, he goes on

0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>and on. He even goes on to say girls with

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:11.760
<v Speaker 1>super memories and perhaps more or less than the two.

0:25:12.760 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, well there's some straight up total recall stuff

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 1>right there. Yeah. Indeed, so thankfully this is a concept

0:25:20.080 --> 0:25:22.480
<v Speaker 1>that either you can think you look at it too, uys,

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.880
<v Speaker 1>either that's just not happening or happened, or it's going

0:25:25.920 --> 0:25:29.240
<v Speaker 1>to happen. But cloning, as we have seen, is something

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:33.400
<v Speaker 1>that has fallen under you know, ethical guidelines and has

0:25:33.440 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 1>been restricted for a number of reasons. Yeah. I mean,

0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:38.960
<v Speaker 1>we've we've danced around with cloning, um when in terms

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:41.359
<v Speaker 1>of animal cloning, but no one's really committed to the

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:45.400
<v Speaker 1>full on human cloning effort as yet. There's just there's

0:25:45.440 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 1>just too many ethical and ultimately governmental and economic barriers

0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:53.240
<v Speaker 1>that that prevent us from from going there, and you know,

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:56.359
<v Speaker 1>he also gets on the cloning. I could go on

0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:58.040
<v Speaker 1>and on, but there's there's one part two where he's

0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:00.280
<v Speaker 1>talking about that, where he says, quote, but clone could

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>also create undreamed of complications for the race. There's a

0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:07.879
<v Speaker 1>certain charm to the idea of Albert Einstein bequeathing copies

0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.440
<v Speaker 1>of himself to posterity. But what about of Hitler? Should

0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:13.640
<v Speaker 1>there be laws to regular like cloning? And of course

0:26:13.640 --> 0:26:17.160
<v Speaker 1>in this we get into this area where where he's

0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:21.000
<v Speaker 1>he's at least entertaining some of the more drastic and

0:26:21.160 --> 0:26:24.679
<v Speaker 1>uh and hyperbolic ideas about what cloning is the idea

0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>that you could, oh, my goodness, they cloned Hitler. Now

0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>we have five extra Hitlers in the world, and what

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna do about it? Without realizing that even the

0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.159
<v Speaker 1>reverse of that cloning Albert Einstein. We've discussed in the

0:26:34.160 --> 0:26:37.840
<v Speaker 1>past what is genius, and genius is not just something

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.080
<v Speaker 1>you can cook up in a pot. You know, there

0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:42.920
<v Speaker 1>are a number of factors that go into into into

0:26:42.920 --> 0:26:45.840
<v Speaker 1>what makes a great mind. Not only am I capable

0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:49.960
<v Speaker 1>of of of achieving of various things, but actually capable

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.720
<v Speaker 1>of pulling them off as well? Yeah, there's this, Um,

0:26:52.960 --> 0:26:55.320
<v Speaker 1>remember this episode on This American Life, and it was

0:26:55.359 --> 0:26:58.560
<v Speaker 1>about a cow that had been cloned, and it was

0:26:58.600 --> 0:27:04.680
<v Speaker 1>just farmers over cow had a very distinct, very deep

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:10.239
<v Speaker 1>relationship with this cow, right, and so yes, yes it's right.

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:13.960
<v Speaker 1>And so the clone turns out to mean nothing like

0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:18.439
<v Speaker 1>this this other bowl that he had, and and it

0:27:18.600 --> 0:27:22.359
<v Speaker 1>completely disappoints him. And so on some level you have

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 1>to wonder, like there's been so much research in the

0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:28.240
<v Speaker 1>animal world in cloning that you know, perhaps we humans

0:27:28.240 --> 0:27:30.520
<v Speaker 1>have come to the conclusion that it's not really worth

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:33.320
<v Speaker 1>it for us at this point. Um, things are not

0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:35.600
<v Speaker 1>going to turn out the way that we thought they would.

0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 1>That that bowl, that human is not going to be

0:27:38.320 --> 0:27:41.679
<v Speaker 1>the person that you loved or the Marilyn Monroe that

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:43.879
<v Speaker 1>the film industry wants to create again. Right, I mean,

0:27:43.920 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 1>if you clone Hitler, Hitler's clone might very well just

0:27:46.400 --> 0:27:48.800
<v Speaker 1>become a yoga teacher. You know, they're just too many

0:27:48.840 --> 0:27:50.679
<v Speaker 1>factors at play. There is like does this clone if

0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Hitler have have the exact same circumstances that will that

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:57.680
<v Speaker 1>allow him to to reach this end point? Does do

0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:00.960
<v Speaker 1>they have the same levels of our the same levels

0:28:00.960 --> 0:28:03.679
<v Speaker 1>of power at their their fingertips to pull. They're just

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 1>so many factors there. Yeah. Now, in terms of where

0:28:06.320 --> 0:28:08.400
<v Speaker 1>the rubber meets the road here, we know that researchers

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.399
<v Speaker 1>have used cloning to make human embryo for the purpose

0:28:10.440 --> 0:28:12.679
<v Speaker 1>of producing stump cells, so we know that we can

0:28:12.720 --> 0:28:14.719
<v Speaker 1>do that. But beyond that, it gets a little bit

0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.959
<v Speaker 1>tricky because cloning requires that researchers first remove the nucleus

0:28:18.000 --> 0:28:20.360
<v Speaker 1>of an egg cell, and then when that's done, they

0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:23.760
<v Speaker 1>also remove proteins that are essential to help cells divide.

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:27.520
<v Speaker 1>Now and mice not a big problem, right, because essentially

0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:31.239
<v Speaker 1>they can replace those proteins, but they have found that

0:28:31.280 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 1>primates aren't able to do this, and as a result,

0:28:35.040 --> 0:28:38.360
<v Speaker 1>there's this molecular process known as imprinting. Um it does

0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 1>not occur properly in cloned embryos, and they can it

0:28:42.120 --> 0:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>can cause the fetus to spontaneously aboard or the animal

0:28:45.480 --> 0:28:49.360
<v Speaker 1>to die shortly afterward. So bear all that in mind,

0:28:49.600 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 1>along with the fact that there's like huge ethical implications

0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.640
<v Speaker 1>and it just doesn't seem that cloning is going to

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.680
<v Speaker 1>be a thing. And in my thing too is that

0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:02.880
<v Speaker 1>And if cloning became a thing, I feel and you

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 1>would have to have a circumstance where again it made

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:07.320
<v Speaker 1>sense and it was safe and uh and everything lined up.

0:29:07.640 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>But essentially you would get into it, into this scenario

0:29:10.240 --> 0:29:13.080
<v Speaker 1>where you would have children with only one parent, and

0:29:13.160 --> 0:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>that's about as scary as it would be. It's not

0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:20.160
<v Speaker 1>a situation where oh, the Koch brothers uh clone themselves

0:29:20.200 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 1>and now they're Littlekoch brothers that are gonna inherit the

0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 1>millions and they live forever and ever, you know, on

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:28.240
<v Speaker 1>into infinity. No, they would just essentially be children, children

0:29:28.280 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of a of a different genetic construction of you know,

0:29:32.480 --> 0:29:35.680
<v Speaker 1>essentially almost an a sexual construction. But they would still

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:38.960
<v Speaker 1>be children, and they wouldn't be like the scary clone

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:42.160
<v Speaker 1>army material or anything of that nature. Yeah, well, they

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:44.840
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have the genetic diversity. I d no, they wouldn't.

0:29:45.120 --> 0:29:48.360
<v Speaker 1>But but I feel like as children, as people, and

0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:52.640
<v Speaker 1>as a reproductive choice, I think we would we would

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:54.440
<v Speaker 1>get used to it if it were happening. I don't

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 1>think there would be I don't think we'd have a

0:29:56.280 --> 0:29:59.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of future shock. If there was a book Susie

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:03.360
<v Speaker 1>has one father, you know, no one parent. This would

0:30:03.360 --> 0:30:05.640
<v Speaker 1>be the title of the book. You know, you just explain. Oh, well,

0:30:05.640 --> 0:30:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Susie was created via cloning, so she only has one

0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:11.520
<v Speaker 1>genetic parents. Well, I mean that's the term of that test,

0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.239
<v Speaker 1>you babies, right, vitro fertilization. This is something that has

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.120
<v Speaker 1>become the norm for us. Um. Now, another thing that

0:30:18.160 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the topflers got wrong, um is economic growth. Okay. They

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 1>basically envisioned a future in which the growing global market

0:30:26.920 --> 0:30:29.440
<v Speaker 1>became more localized in the sense that there would be

0:30:29.560 --> 0:30:33.640
<v Speaker 1>decentralized production enacted by the consumer. Oh it's a little

0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:36.560
<v Speaker 1>like the I kea market, Right, you get the parts,

0:30:36.960 --> 0:30:39.560
<v Speaker 1>but then you put them together yourself. And they call

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:42.600
<v Speaker 1>this pro sumption. When consumers do some are all of

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:44.520
<v Speaker 1>the work of production. And they thought this would lead

0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:50.320
<v Speaker 1>to renewable energy working from the home and de urbanization. Yeah.

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 1>And it seemed like that the direction we were going

0:30:52.160 --> 0:30:55.640
<v Speaker 1>in again from the nineteen seventies, but that they were

0:30:55.680 --> 0:30:58.760
<v Speaker 1>based basing this on the idea and basic on what

0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:02.479
<v Speaker 1>the the the economist we're telling them that they quote

0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the problem of economic growth was licked that that all

0:31:06.040 --> 0:31:08.760
<v Speaker 1>they need to do is fine tune the system, and uh,

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.200
<v Speaker 1>and we would just continue to see this exponential growth

0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:12.959
<v Speaker 1>along these lines. Yeah, and it would be more of

0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 1>like an individual cottage system, right, and decentralized in that sense.

0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:20.680
<v Speaker 1>According to Richard Cotch, writing for Huffington Post in his

0:31:20.800 --> 0:31:23.840
<v Speaker 1>article for Things Talking got Wrong, their vision is correct

0:31:23.880 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 1>in the terms of self service, we've seen that, but

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:29.720
<v Speaker 1>not in decentralizing the global market, he says, quote the

0:31:29.880 --> 0:31:35.240
<v Speaker 1>rise of self service supermarkets, gas stations, i kea budget, airlines, dell.

0:31:35.560 --> 0:31:38.000
<v Speaker 1>That's all been associated with the rise of new corporations

0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:40.520
<v Speaker 1>and a greater extension of the market as the cost

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:43.520
<v Speaker 1>of goods and services fall. So yeah, self service fits

0:31:43.520 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 1>in there, but that only helps the companies to decrease

0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:48.520
<v Speaker 1>their bottom line. In other words, you can't stop the

0:31:48.560 --> 0:31:51.280
<v Speaker 1>marketplace there you go and where do you have markets

0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:54.280
<v Speaker 1>in the cities and the cities which they also thought

0:31:54.360 --> 0:31:58.600
<v Speaker 1>again this d organization would occur and that people would

0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.600
<v Speaker 1>move out of the cities and shift away from them.

0:32:01.640 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 1>But as the world market increases, as we know, so

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 1>as industries, because cities offer an infrastructure, they offer networking

0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 1>opportunities and shared knowledge. Yeah, I mean that they really

0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.000
<v Speaker 1>got that one wrong, because obviously we've seen the tremendous

0:32:16.560 --> 0:32:20.200
<v Speaker 1>continued growth of urban areas and even even in an

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:24.200
<v Speaker 1>age right now where technically, technically everyone in this office

0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:27.240
<v Speaker 1>could work from just about anywhere they wanted to, because

0:32:27.280 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 1>we can all work on our computers. You and I

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.560
<v Speaker 1>are in the same room right now, But we could

0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 1>conceivably do this from different corners of the country. Yeah,

0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:37.680
<v Speaker 1>we could skype it in, right, but but we don't,

0:32:37.720 --> 0:32:41.080
<v Speaker 1>because there are a number of additional benefits, uh for

0:32:41.240 --> 0:32:43.880
<v Speaker 1>business to be located in one place and to be

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:46.760
<v Speaker 1>then and for that place to be uh in close

0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:50.719
<v Speaker 1>proximity to all these other resources. Yeah, it's you can't

0:32:50.760 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 1>necessarily have the wild West. You have to have that

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:56.240
<v Speaker 1>structure in place, and that's what cities provide for sure. Now,

0:32:56.680 --> 0:32:59.840
<v Speaker 1>another idea that they put forth in Future Shock that

0:33:00.080 --> 0:33:03.440
<v Speaker 1>also has not really shaken out, um as they predicted

0:33:03.720 --> 0:33:08.240
<v Speaker 1>the idea that we would have a simplification of our

0:33:08.280 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 1>systems via powerful, powerful computers, sort of like the top

0:33:14.120 --> 0:33:18.320
<v Speaker 1>of himself. In interview with Wired, uh magazine says the

0:33:18.680 --> 0:33:21.520
<v Speaker 1>early assumptions were that the giant brain was going to

0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 1>solve our problems for us, that it was going to

0:33:24.160 --> 0:33:27.480
<v Speaker 1>get all this information together, and that therefore life would

0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:30.240
<v Speaker 1>be simplified. What it overlooked was the fact that computers

0:33:30.320 --> 0:33:33.600
<v Speaker 1>also complexify reality. And of course this was a great

0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 1>disappointment to the Soviets because they were going to centrally

0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:40.480
<v Speaker 1>plan their thing with a big computer. So this idea

0:33:40.520 --> 0:33:42.400
<v Speaker 1>that like a supercomputer is going to set in the

0:33:42.440 --> 0:33:44.760
<v Speaker 1>center of the city and then plan out how everything

0:33:44.800 --> 0:33:48.440
<v Speaker 1>works and make things easier is both. Uh. Yeah, there's

0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:51.720
<v Speaker 1>there's some truth to that. Computers do make things a

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.960
<v Speaker 1>little more streamlined in places, but there's there's a certain

0:33:54.960 --> 0:33:57.840
<v Speaker 1>amount of complexity, both in terms of our systems that

0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:01.080
<v Speaker 1>in terms of our personal experience of reality. Yeah, if

0:34:01.080 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I am remembering this correctly, we did an episode on

0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:08.640
<v Speaker 1>the Living Earth Simulator which tried to take it like

0:34:08.760 --> 0:34:12.040
<v Speaker 1>every data point in our existence, throw it in there

0:34:12.080 --> 0:34:13.920
<v Speaker 1>and try to predict how things we're gonna happen. So

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:20.239
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about like weather, uh, socio economics, mean, traffic patterns, everything. Yeah,

0:34:20.280 --> 0:34:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Like they wanted to take various simulated models such as weather,

0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:27.280
<v Speaker 1>combine them all and have a complete or a complete

0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:30.160
<v Speaker 1>ish worldview of what the world is doing and to

0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:34.360
<v Speaker 1>simulate how these various various changes would affect other changes.

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 1>But as as weather points out to us on a

0:34:37.520 --> 0:34:40.920
<v Speaker 1>daily basis, it's not really that easy to predict what's

0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:42.520
<v Speaker 1>going to go on because there's sort of like that

0:34:42.600 --> 0:34:46.440
<v Speaker 1>butterfly effect, there's entropy in the background, and it's not

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:49.400
<v Speaker 1>really in the background, it's just always working, honest, and

0:34:49.480 --> 0:34:53.600
<v Speaker 1>so we rely too heavily on routinization or trying to

0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:57.640
<v Speaker 1>predict things based off of patterns. One topic that instantly

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.359
<v Speaker 1>came to mind when I was reading about this high

0:35:00.440 --> 0:35:04.440
<v Speaker 1>frequency algorithmic trading. Uh. This is of course on Wall Street.

0:35:04.480 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 1>We have computers that are doing the trading, which is

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:10.000
<v Speaker 1>computers uh, don't have to operate at the human cognitive

0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 1>um speed setting. You have these various transactions that are

0:35:14.520 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>happening almost you know, within the know, just fractions of

0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:20.640
<v Speaker 1>a second. Uh. And it's it's been very controversial, some

0:35:20.680 --> 0:35:23.520
<v Speaker 1>people champion claiming that it doesn't pose any kind of

0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:27.960
<v Speaker 1>systematic risk, that the so far so called micro crashes

0:35:28.000 --> 0:35:31.680
<v Speaker 1>that we've experienced starting anything to really get um upset about.

0:35:31.719 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 1>But then you have people like Nobel Prize winning economist

0:35:34.680 --> 0:35:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Michael Spence who thinks that there is a lot of

0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:39.759
<v Speaker 1>danger here and we should just ban it completely. So

0:35:40.800 --> 0:35:43.400
<v Speaker 1>again we have just the idea of letting the computers

0:35:43.400 --> 0:35:47.000
<v Speaker 1>come in and simplify something as complex and at times

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.920
<v Speaker 1>chaotic as as economic trading. There that we see a

0:35:50.960 --> 0:35:52.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of division. Is it a good thing, is it

0:35:52.440 --> 0:35:54.440
<v Speaker 1>a bad thing? We're still feeling it out well. And

0:35:54.480 --> 0:35:57.520
<v Speaker 1>then in addition to that, we have so much data

0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:01.680
<v Speaker 1>coming in all streams from everywhere, every corner of the Earth,

0:36:01.719 --> 0:36:06.279
<v Speaker 1>from drones, from satellites, you name it. So you know,

0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:08.960
<v Speaker 1>you try to do something like the Living Earth simulator,

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:10.920
<v Speaker 1>and who knows, maybe that will actually come to Fruition

0:36:10.960 --> 0:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>and work one day in the way that it's meant to.

0:36:14.640 --> 0:36:18.000
<v Speaker 1>But for the most part, it's just trying to manage

0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:20.840
<v Speaker 1>that amount of data, right, I mean, there's so much

0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:24.560
<v Speaker 1>information on the web. I mean every day we're researching

0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:27.120
<v Speaker 1>topics and we're going on the web and finding these

0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:29.400
<v Speaker 1>various sources, and there's just so much of it. Like

0:36:29.920 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 1>the day I started here, uh some number of years

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 1>ago u nineteen hundreds, I was actually going to the library.

0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.319
<v Speaker 1>I remember checking out library books to work. And I

0:36:40.360 --> 0:36:43.040
<v Speaker 1>still pick up physical copies of books occasionally, but not

0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:45.720
<v Speaker 1>with the with the frequency that I was then because

0:36:45.760 --> 0:36:49.080
<v Speaker 1>now there's just so much more available. But still you

0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 1>look at something like Wikipedia, which is UH, which which

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:55.120
<v Speaker 1>is great. Don't get me wrong, But even in the

0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:57.480
<v Speaker 1>situation where you have all of this sort of communal

0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:02.120
<v Speaker 1>high think contributing to this vision of complete world knowledge,

0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:04.600
<v Speaker 1>they're still flaws in it. There's still omissions in it,

0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:07.880
<v Speaker 1>UH and UH, and that highlights some of it. The

0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:12.120
<v Speaker 1>problems with the idea of computers and UH and integrated

0:37:12.320 --> 0:37:16.120
<v Speaker 1>technology solving our our problems. Yeah, I'm being able to

0:37:16.120 --> 0:37:17.920
<v Speaker 1>come in and clean it all up and make it

0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.440
<v Speaker 1>tidy for us. Well, it turns out that we are

0:37:20.480 --> 0:37:23.799
<v Speaker 1>just a messy, messy people that can't be tidied. So

0:37:23.920 --> 0:37:26.280
<v Speaker 1>we are not picking on this book or the Tofflers

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 1>were just kind of saying that, Hey, in this incredible

0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:31.799
<v Speaker 1>book detailing what was going on in the seventies and

0:37:31.840 --> 0:37:33.239
<v Speaker 1>what might be going on in the future, there were

0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.879
<v Speaker 1>a couple of things that didn't come to fruition, and

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.359
<v Speaker 1>they're they're interesting to look at in that way, like,

0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:41.759
<v Speaker 1>what are the things that they got wrong? In the

0:37:41.840 --> 0:37:45.480
<v Speaker 1>next episode, we're going to talk about what they got right.

0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:49.080
<v Speaker 1>And in some of the lingering like ramifications of what

0:37:49.120 --> 0:37:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the Topplers were trying to say in the seventies and

0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:55.319
<v Speaker 1>throughout the eighties and subsequent books. Okay, before we close out, though,

0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:58.480
<v Speaker 1>I do want to mention that the term future shock

0:37:58.640 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 1>has of course become a part out of our culture. Uh.

0:38:01.680 --> 0:38:03.799
<v Speaker 1>We still hear it to thrown around today, But in

0:38:03.800 --> 0:38:06.319
<v Speaker 1>the seventies you saw a lot of it. Like if

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:08.759
<v Speaker 1>you do an IMDb search for future Shock, you'll see

0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 1>various TV shows that would label an episode when and

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:16.840
<v Speaker 1>so will be titled future Shock. You saw Tharg's Future Shocks,

0:38:17.239 --> 0:38:20.319
<v Speaker 1>which was a section of the long running British comic

0:38:20.400 --> 0:38:23.319
<v Speaker 1>two thousand a d in which various sci fi uh

0:38:23.360 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 1>sort of takes on future shock would be unveiled. Uh,

0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:31.080
<v Speaker 1>And most remarkable of all, James Brown hosted Future Shock

0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:34.440
<v Speaker 1>on TV UH from seventy six to seventy eight, and

0:38:34.440 --> 0:38:36.839
<v Speaker 1>it was shot right here in Atlanta, Georgia, as well

0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:41.200
<v Speaker 1>as in Augusta. Nice. I guess it was his home

0:38:41.239 --> 0:38:44.360
<v Speaker 1>place right, his birth his birth home. That's not the

0:38:44.400 --> 0:38:46.239
<v Speaker 1>correct term, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, if

0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:48.719
<v Speaker 1>you do a YouTube search for Future Shock James Brown,

0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:50.839
<v Speaker 1>you will see some wonderful clips of this show, which

0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 1>sadly is not as futuristic as I had hoped. That

0:38:53.400 --> 0:38:56.799
<v Speaker 1>basically it's soul Train with with just his Future Shock

0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:59.600
<v Speaker 1>in the background instead of soul Train. Um, it's it's

0:38:59.600 --> 0:39:01.840
<v Speaker 1>still one full. So some wonderful music on there, but

0:39:01.880 --> 0:39:04.600
<v Speaker 1>there are no dancing androids. I was hoping that like

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:09.399
<v Speaker 1>big puffy outfits that were like reflective metal, metallic clicking, yeah,

0:39:09.560 --> 0:39:11.400
<v Speaker 1>and there would be like a lot of future shock

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:16.919
<v Speaker 1>get old yeah lyrics about super industrialism and cloning. But yeah,

0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:19.839
<v Speaker 1>but it's an example of the word becoming a part

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:23.359
<v Speaker 1>of our culture and just becoming this this idea that's

0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:25.319
<v Speaker 1>even if we forget what it means, it's still it's

0:39:25.320 --> 0:39:29.479
<v Speaker 1>still there in the background, all right, So definitely tune

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:32.839
<v Speaker 1>into the next episode where we will discuss more on

0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:35.359
<v Speaker 1>the topic of future Shock. In the meantime, you want

0:39:35.360 --> 0:39:36.520
<v Speaker 1>to get in touch with us, you want to see

0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:39.080
<v Speaker 1>what we're talking about, what we're blogging about, what kind

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:41.120
<v Speaker 1>of videos we've shot, what we're doing on social media.

0:39:41.160 --> 0:39:43.000
<v Speaker 1>We'll head on over to stuff to Blow your Mind

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 1>dot com. That is the place to go if you

0:39:46.440 --> 0:39:48.399
<v Speaker 1>want to remain up to date on what we're doing.

0:39:48.480 --> 0:39:50.480
<v Speaker 1>You know, because you go on Facebook, there's so much

0:39:50.480 --> 0:39:54.120
<v Speaker 1>stuff on there. You're getting information overload. You're gonna miss stuff.

0:39:54.120 --> 0:39:55.640
<v Speaker 1>You go to Twitter, you're gonna miss stuff. But if

0:39:55.640 --> 0:39:57.360
<v Speaker 1>you go to stuff and blow your Mind dot com,

0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.560
<v Speaker 1>it is there, and it's searchable, all of the podcast episodes,

0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 1>all the blog posts, you name it um. And then

0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:05.600
<v Speaker 1>there's another way to get in touch with me. Yeah,

0:40:05.640 --> 0:40:08.000
<v Speaker 1>if you want to send us a direct data stream,

0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:10.760
<v Speaker 1>you can do that by sending an email at blow

0:40:10.800 --> 0:40:16.560
<v Speaker 1>the Minded discovery dot com. For more on this and

0:40:16.640 --> 0:40:19.200
<v Speaker 1>thousands of other topics, because it how stuff works dot

0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:25.759
<v Speaker 1>com