1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The Velvet's 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson. 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: Karen l Dad is a personal and executive coach. Hey Karen, 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 2: how are you? 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 3: Hey? Kelly, how are you good? 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 2: To see you good? We were just talking about your 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 2: name is spelled k E R A r E and 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: to ease so I thought it was Kiaren, but it's 9 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: Karen And you said, why is that? 10 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 4: Well, I'm from Israel. If you ever meet Karen with 11 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 4: too East, She's from Israel. 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 3: It's the most popular. 13 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: Name, is it really? Wow? 14 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: Okay? 15 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 2: I learned something new. 16 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 4: That all of us are equally offended by the memes 17 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 4: attacking us bad ladies who will demand to talk to 18 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 4: the manager. 19 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: I always have felt sorry for Karen's. Anyone actually named 20 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 2: Karen gets kind of screwed with that meme. 21 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 4: No, I really I feel bad, Like every time somebody 22 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 4: calls my name, it's solid Koran's like Karen, I'm like, sh. 23 00:00:55,320 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're like, oh okay. Well, Ever time I've had 24 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 2: a coach on a podcast, I find that all of 25 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 2: the great coaches become coaches after their own personal story 26 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 2: kind of takes them through this journey. Of healing or breakdown, 27 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: and I feel like you might have a similar beginning. 28 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 2: Will you tell the listeners a little bit about your 29 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: backstory and how you got into being a personal and 30 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 2: executive coach. 31 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 4: You know, you're absolutely right, Kelly. And when I myself 32 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 4: am looking for coaches, I'm not only looking for world 33 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 4: class credentials and a rapport with someone who is charming. 34 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 4: I'm really looking for someone who walks the walk. In 35 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 4: other words, they know what they're teaching me. I don't 36 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 4: think that if you yourself have experienced the healing in 37 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,479 Speaker 4: particular areas that you've come to teach, that you can teach. 38 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 4: For example, it's very hard to be taught self love 39 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: from someone who doesn't know self love. It's also equally 40 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 4: hard to learn financial success from someone who is not 41 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 4: financially successful. And so yeah, that's exactly how I ended 42 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 4: up with coaching. 43 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 3: Full disclosure. 44 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 4: I don't know if I talk about this in the book, 45 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 4: but I thought self help was nonsense. 46 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: For most of my life. 47 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 4: I pride myself as an academic, intellectual type above the 48 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 4: world of self helpery, until in my mid thirties it 49 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 4: became hard to deny that everything I was living was 50 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 4: a sham, garbage existence. And I found myself sleeping in 51 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 4: the library of my house because I could not stand 52 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 4: another second with my husband, who was very abusive, waking 53 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 4: up next to a book called The Seven Habits of 54 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 4: Highly Effective People by Stephen R. 55 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 3: Covey, and I, yeah, and. 56 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 4: You know, that's one of those books that I think 57 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 4: everybody has a lot of library, but it's like ignoring it, 58 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 4: and you ignore it for good reason. It's really heavy, right, 59 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 4: called the forty nine Habits of Highly Successful People. But 60 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 4: because of that Moniker, and because I was in deep distress, 61 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 4: I picked it up and it was the beginning of everything. 62 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 4: I started to open my eyes to just understanding what 63 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 4: was going on, understanding the trade off I had made, 64 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 4: Understanding the premises on which my life had been built, 65 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 4: and one by one having the courage to collapse them 66 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,880 Speaker 4: so that I could really start to build everything anew. 67 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: I'll tell you more about the story, but yeah, basically, 68 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 4: my transformation is one that I lived firsthand. I was 69 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 4: an overachiever who did everything quote unquote right, and who 70 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 4: found themselves in a trap, a giant, gilded cage, and 71 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 4: nothing felt good. 72 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 3: The job was a c suite job. Really could not 73 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 3: care less if I maintained it. 74 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: Or not, or if I lived another second under those 75 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 4: horrific strobe lights. The marriage looked very good on Instagram. 76 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 4: He used to like dress to match me, so people 77 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 4: thought we were in an ideal partnership. It was abusive 78 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 4: and it was mean, and it was horrific, and I 79 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 4: felt like I was under threat. Most of the time 80 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 4: I lived in a city I didn't like it all. 81 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 4: I was living in Zurich. Anyone who's ever been a 82 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: New Yorker knows that Zurich is basically where happiness goes 83 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 4: to die coaired with New York. So like all of 84 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 4: my life looked so glittery and it was just a 85 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 4: giant sham. I was nowhere near purpose or happiness, let 86 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 4: alone satisfaction. And it was in the ability to turn 87 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 4: that around, which only happened from the inside out, and 88 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 4: over several years that I've come to be able to 89 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 4: teach others to do the same. 90 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,599 Speaker 2: What do you think the number one thing you see 91 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 2: amongst our society with overachieving? What do you think people 92 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 2: are missing? Like when you're describing your story, I'm hearing 93 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: you say like I had all of these things, but 94 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 2: I just got to the place where I realized, and 95 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: I finally got honest with myself that I was miserable. 96 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: So what are you seeing when people are coming to 97 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: you and they're like, have all this success externally, but 98 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: they're miserable inside. 99 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 4: Well, what they're missing is the target. The target is wrong. 100 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 4: If you're at a target and you're firing at a 101 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 4: target that's completely off the target, you're going to keep 102 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 4: hitting the target, but it's going to be wrong. Most 103 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 4: of my clients come to me basically after they've climbed 104 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,279 Speaker 4: the ladder of success, and essentially it very very quickly 105 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 4: unfolds that they just never checked whether. 106 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 3: The wall they were climbing up was the right wall. 107 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 4: If the right wall is being missed, you are actively away, 108 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 4: you're climbing, you're doing something, you're moving stuff around, but 109 00:05:15,839 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 4: you're not aiming in the right direction. And I think 110 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 4: this happens for two reasons, Kelly. The first is we 111 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 4: say we want happiness, but we're definitely not as a 112 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 4: society conditioned for happiness. 113 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:26,240 Speaker 3: No one is. 114 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 4: Our parents really want us to be happy, and what 115 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 4: that generally means is safe, financially successful, educated, buoyant, physically safe, 116 00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 4: and preferably in. 117 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: My mother's case. 118 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 4: Married If those are the hallmarks and they're all external conditions, 119 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 4: then we are aiming for the external conditions. And by 120 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 4: the way, if that weren't true, then consumer advertising would 121 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 4: not be so effective. It's extremely effective because it's what 122 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 4: we are geared to look for and we are reinforcing 123 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 4: all the time. The second reason, I think is even broader, 124 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,479 Speaker 4: and that's because even when we start to think, well, 125 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 4: I really do want to be happy, I really do 126 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 4: want to feel good, we don't understand happiness at all. 127 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 4: We think of it as an abstract term. We understand 128 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 4: it as a state of giddiness, and it is nothing 129 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 4: even close to a state of giddiness. So I'd love 130 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 4: to talk about that and talk about unpacking the premises 131 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 4: and how they end up end up shooting us in 132 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 4: the foot. And certainly this is what the book is for. 133 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 4: The book is to show you you've aimed at the 134 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 4: wrong targets. 135 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 3: We've put yourself in a cage. 136 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 4: You want to get out of it, You're going to 137 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 4: need to redefine your targets completely. And first we need 138 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 4: to explain to you what the target really is, so 139 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 4: you know how to find it. 140 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 2: It's that Tell Tell story right where you achieve a 141 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: ton of stuff, you get all the goals that you 142 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 2: sought after, and then you get to the top and 143 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 2: you realize you're miserable. I mean, how many times have 144 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 2: you heard that story? Or it's that we start chasing 145 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:51,799 Speaker 2: all these other things and we just think the things 146 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 2: and the jobs and the titles, that's going to make 147 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 2: us happy. So if that's not making us happy, and 148 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 2: you're saying we don't know what happiness is, what is happiness. 149 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 4: Well, it's never that. It's never the externals. And I 150 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,920 Speaker 4: have found myself exactly in that position. As a matter 151 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 4: of fact, I talk about it for the first time 152 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 4: in the book. 153 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: I had everything. I had the huge. 154 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 4: House and the glamorous job and the perfect looking husband, 155 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: and I was in the shower one day, suicidal, absolutely 156 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 4: ready to end my life. It meant nothing to me 157 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 4: without meaning, success without fulfillment, success without joy is ultimate failure. 158 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 4: And many of us find ourselves in this zone, and 159 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 4: unfortunately we don't recognize it, Kelly, because while my feelings 160 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 4: were aggressive, for many people it's aimlessness or restlessness or 161 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 4: anxiousness and they can't quite put a finger on it. 162 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 3: But it's like it's like that noise in the background. 163 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: It just won't go away. 164 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 4: So what we have to start to do is first 165 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 4: recognize the feelings are real, something's off and you can't 166 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 4: do something about it, And then, if you're ready to 167 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 4: be even braver, start understanding what happiness really is. 168 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 3: Happiness has nothing to do with. 169 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 4: Prada or your title, or the next trip to Italy 170 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 4: or whatever Instagram is telling you other people are up to. 171 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 3: That's really way better than what you're doing. 172 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 4: Right, real success, real happiness is a state that can 173 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 4: be clearly defined and has been by academia for years. 174 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 4: According to Martin Seligman and other great researchers like Dan 175 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 4: Gilbert in the field of positive psychology, which has been 176 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,559 Speaker 4: studied for thirty years, which is essentially the study of 177 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:33,559 Speaker 4: why we have good feelings in our lives and can 178 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 4: expand the quality of our life in contrast to the 179 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 4: psychological study of pathos and neurosis, they found that there 180 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 4: really are three archetypes of happiness. The first hedonic pleasure 181 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 4: Dan Gilbert. But this a lot that's like if you 182 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 4: and I spend an afternoon with George Clooney on a 183 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 4: yacht and he's giving us jewelry. 184 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: That sounds lovely. 185 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 3: I know you face them all. 186 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 4: But secondly, in studies, they found that this kind of 187 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 4: happiness lasts about two hours, yeah, and eighty a couple 188 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 4: more hours with the likes that continue the dopamine hits 189 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 4: on Instagram. Sure, there are no lasting effects to your 190 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 4: life whatsoever. 191 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: Those are the ones. 192 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 4: We're constantly going towards. That's why doctor Seligan called this 193 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 4: Hollywood happiness, fleeting and fake sugar sugar high. A second 194 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 4: type of happiness is flow. Flow is a state of 195 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 4: true joy that you experience when you immerse yourself in 196 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 4: something you love doing so much the time ceases to 197 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 4: exist while you're doing it. I have listened to this podcast, 198 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 4: and I bet you whatever you want. While you guys 199 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 4: are recording, you don't notice time going by. 200 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 2: That is true, right. Yeah. 201 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 4: When I was writing my first program, Living Enthusiasm, it 202 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 4: was one of the first times I probably remembered feeling 203 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 4: that I go to sleep at ten o'clock no matter what. 204 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I couldn't sleep for days. 205 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 4: I was so excited about what I was doing. I 206 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 4: was so happy. I couldn't feel a thing. And here's 207 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 4: the interesting thing about flow. A it doesn't last, but 208 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 4: you can access it again and again. And B it 209 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 4: doesn't look like happiness. It looks blank. My husband is 210 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 4: a very happy person and he fishes all the time, 211 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 4: and while he is fishing, he shows zero expression in 212 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 4: his face. That is what I've come to recognize is 213 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 4: pure joy, blank space. 214 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: Wow. I never thought of that, but it's so true. 215 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,599 Speaker 4: Well, the third kind of happiness, the third archetype, is 216 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 4: the holy hi kh Muna. It's what we're all aimed for. 217 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 4: It's what the book is designed to help people create. 218 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 3: And that's meaning now. Meaning again sounds. 219 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 4: Abstract, but the great Doctor Suliman broke it up for 220 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 4: us with two terms that we can easily and readily 221 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 4: start to aim for directly. One is service, living your 222 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 4: life in service of something bigger than you. And number 223 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 4: two is appreciation, open and active gratitude for what you 224 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 4: have now. 225 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 3: And these are feelings who can cultivate. 226 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 4: If you can start cultivating those, they will pick up 227 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 4: a momentum of their own. They are on the opposite 228 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 4: side of the spectrum from frustration, resentment, et cetera. As 229 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 4: many gurus have posited, and they will start to dominate 230 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 4: your existence, and you'll end up being one of those 231 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 4: weirdos like us who genuinely likes and recommends their life. 232 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: I always say this statistic to people, or I don't 233 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 2: know if it's a statistic. It's a scientific fact that 234 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 2: you cannot feel anxiety and gratitude at the same time, 235 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 2: like it's actually humanly impossible. And that always really helps me. 236 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 2: If I'm feeling super anxious, I make myself do you 237 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 2: know a five bullet point gratitude list, and immediately the 238 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 2: anxiety goes away. 239 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 4: Well, I want to add a caveat to that. First, 240 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 4: you cannot feel it, and a second. Many people have 241 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 4: still countered this in session by saying, no, I am 242 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 4: actually capable of feeling both at the same time. And 243 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 4: now I'd always say, what's really happening is anger is 244 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,320 Speaker 4: the dominant emotion. Ah is the dominant emotion. You're not 245 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 4: going to be able to reach for gratitude. It'll be 246 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 4: almost like a form of bipolar You're too much of yourself. 247 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 4: And if that is the case, don't be mean to yourself. 248 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 4: It's okay. It's fine to be very angry. These are 249 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 4: anxious times. Walk your way towards it more slowly. Try 250 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 4: to get to calm, not to gratitude, just to calm. 251 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 4: If there's anything that can bring you respite. Nothing needs 252 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 4: to happen this red hot second. Everything is going to 253 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 4: be okay, Everything might be okay, I'm not dead right now. 254 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 3: Any of these thoughts is. 255 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 4: Going to bring you up a little higher, and then 256 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 4: you'll look closer to be able to receive gratitude rather 257 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 4: than aggravate yourself. 258 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's a new addition. I'll add to that. 259 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,680 Speaker 2: We've mentioned the book a couple of times. It's called 260 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: gilded Breaking free from the cage of ambition, perfectionism, and 261 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: the resentment, ugh, excuse me, relentless pursuit of more. I 262 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: love that you called it a gilded cage, because you know, obviously, 263 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 2: when you're finding success, it would be a beautiful gold, 264 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: lavish page. Though, And I find that such an interesting, 265 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 2: you know, back and forth dichotomy. But how does success 266 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: become a trap for us? 267 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: Well, we're trapped by our own ambitions, right, We're trapped 268 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 4: by the very hallmarks that we've used, or the very 269 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 4: characteristics that we've used in order to conquer these targets, 270 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 4: they become our prisoners. Our ambition can go too far. 271 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 4: Competitive energy is awful. You want proof, go spend five 272 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 4: minutes on Instagram right now, and don't waste it on 273 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 4: cat videos. Go look at other people's profiles. See how 274 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 4: you feel in five minutes. Oh my god, you want 275 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 4: to feel even worse five minutes on LinkedIn. My viition 276 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 4: can definitely get the best of you and can make 277 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 4: you extraordinarily susceptible to criticism, and as a result of 278 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 4: that live in stress. Perfectionism is a healscape. It's the 279 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 4: heart of all mental illness, I believe, and it truly 280 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 4: can go wrong, very very quickly. There is no form 281 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:07,200 Speaker 4: of perfectionism of standards that are unrealistic that can be 282 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 4: helpful to anyone. Ever, they are very punishing, and as 283 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 4: a result of that you move into a self punishing 284 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 4: cycle that again becomes your trap and conditions. The strife 285 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 4: for conditions is what drives you to the relentless pursuit 286 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 4: of more, which you will inevitably pursue because no condition 287 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: can ever be sustained. This is a trap. Have you 288 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: ever thought to yourself? You know what I think? I 289 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 4: will be this way forever, and my bank account will 290 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 4: always be this forever, and I will always be this age, 291 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 4: and we will always. 292 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: Be this happy. 293 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 4: Anyone who's ever been this delusional is in for a 294 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 4: horrible awakening, especially my age. 295 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 3: I'm in my late forties. 296 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 4: Now you just wake up and you go, you know what, 297 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 4: I'm not in control anymore. 298 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 3: I might as well just live right. 299 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 4: And this is why the relentless pursuit of more truly 300 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 4: does become a never enough death t right. The only 301 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 4: solution is within is to really learn who you are 302 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 4: and let yourself be who you are, and to really 303 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 4: start living the flow of life. 304 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: Did you say perfectionism is the root of all mental illness? 305 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 4: Yes, I'm not the only one who says this. There 306 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 4: are many learned scholars like Stephen Poulter and Brene Brown 307 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 4: who have talked about but obsessive behavior neurosis, inability to 308 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 4: stop catastrophizing many times is rooted in I'm going to 309 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 4: say just many times to be safe is rooted in 310 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 4: a desire to control. 311 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: And that's what is. It's a desire to control. 312 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 2: It makes so much sense. I never put the two together, 313 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: but it makes so much sense. 314 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 4: And control other people, which moves you into and see 315 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 4: and then. 316 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: I yeah, cycle, yeah. Well, you mentioned before we started 317 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 2: doing this podcast that this topic that we're discussing is 318 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: very in line with some of the stuff that I 319 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: discussed last week on the podcast which if you guys 320 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 2: miss those podcasts with Jodi White and then the one 321 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 2: that rire Chip and I were talking about Harper and 322 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 2: Will documentary. We're really referencing a lot about social media, 323 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,479 Speaker 2: which you just brought up, and a lot about validation, 324 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 2: and that is to me, the biggest driver is our 325 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: constant need for excessive validation and that I've noticed in 326 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: the past couple of years and our society seems to 327 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 2: have gotten worse. Do you think this is because of 328 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: social media? Have we always been like this and it's 329 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 2: just more broadcast or what's happening with validation in our society. 330 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 4: The first thing I want to tell you, Kelly, is 331 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 4: that I wanted to call this book why your life 332 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 4: doesn't feel as good as it looks on Instagram and 333 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 4: what you can do about it? 334 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 2: That would be a good time. 335 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 4: Because honestly, one of the big callings of my life 336 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 4: to broadcast this message is just to start calling out 337 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 4: the lies. Yeah, the absolute shameless lies that are going 338 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 4: on everywhere. At the same time, I want to say no, 339 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 4: this is amplified by social media and social media simply 340 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 4: taking advantage of our worst tendencies, which is what it 341 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,159 Speaker 4: is designed to do. It survives and thrives on anger 342 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 4: and competition, on desire and jealousy. 343 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 3: It does not survive on anything else. 344 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 4: So the only way to use it, and really use 345 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 4: it for good and glory, is to have severe boundaries 346 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 4: within yourself, to know who you are, and to be far, far. 347 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 3: Less susceptible to those things. 348 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:27,239 Speaker 4: I got really lucky social media doesn't appear, probably in 349 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 4: my life about less than twenty years ago, two thousand 350 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 4: and seven. I'm already in my mid twenties, plate twenties, 351 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 4: actually full formed adult, much less interested in this, much 352 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 4: much less susceptible to this. I think than a very 353 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 4: young child would be. Leave those discussions to Jonathan Haye. However, 354 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,920 Speaker 4: for those of us who are of age and still 355 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 4: struggling with this, you should know that it's not just 356 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 4: social media that's triggering you. It's your cohorts, it's your 357 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:59,120 Speaker 4: YPO forum, it's your EO group, it's your fantastical LinkedIn associations, 358 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 4: it's your peer groups, it's not social media. 359 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 3: For those of us who are fully. 360 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 4: Grown, social media is simply another area in which we 361 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 4: can start to see where we are and are not 362 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 4: measuring up if we're susceptible to that message. But if 363 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 4: you're susceptible to that message, believe me, your friends are 364 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 4: already showing you that all the time. Your colleagues are 365 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 4: already showing you that all the time. You're trying to 366 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 4: keep up with the jonas. You're seeing how the people 367 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 4: in the apartment or the home next door are living. 368 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 3: You are seeing the cute outfit at brunch. 369 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 4: So once we start to really fall into these trappings, 370 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 4: our game becomes one of control or one of dominance, 371 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 4: and then an overachieving behavioral style will start to perfect 372 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 4: the self. They will do everything they can to measure 373 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 4: up in order to not feel unhappy. 374 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 3: And that is not the game. That is a losing, 375 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:49,960 Speaker 3: losing game. 376 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 2: You're so right would be doing that the comparison game. 377 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 2: We would be keep trying to keep up with the 378 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 2: gen just without social media. It just amplifies it. It 379 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: just puts it out there for us to literally pick 380 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 2: up our phone every five minutes and do the thing 381 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: you said earlier, go compare ourselves to other people. 382 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 3: But the addiction was there before. 383 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 4: I mean, it wasn't subscribed to Vogue and watching Sex 384 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,679 Speaker 4: and the City before exactly, we all were and we 385 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 4: were already in that. And by the way, I grew 386 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 4: up in the nineties, I don't know if you remember 387 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 4: the supermodels of the nineties. 388 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Cindy Crawford exactly. 389 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 3: That stuff was broadcast to me constantly. Anyway, it's just 390 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: a little more. 391 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 2: That's just a little more. That's a really good way 392 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 2: to put it. Okay, Well, so what's the answer here, 393 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 2: because obviously we all want success, right, you know, that's 394 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 2: a big driver for most of us is to live 395 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 2: a successful life. But if we're chasing success, how do 396 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 2: we also stay in our purpose be happy all of 397 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 2: those pieces. 398 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 4: Well, you have to redefine success completely as happy and 399 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 4: at ease and fulfilled first and foremost. Otherwise you're never 400 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 4: going to cross this chasm, and you will continue to 401 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 4: accumulate things. You will continue, possibly to ruthlessly continue things 402 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 4: to accumulate things like elon musk. But then you'll find 403 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 4: yourself tweeting at three o'clock in the morning with five 404 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 4: x wives and ten children who are estranged from you, 405 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 4: and a body that is failing you, and what have 406 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 4: you done? Then these things are not useful. If you 407 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 4: make a decision that the rest of your days you 408 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 4: will live happy, you will live according to who you 409 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 4: truly are, then the only path is in. It's not out, 410 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 4: And that means that the first step I would take 411 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 4: is to begin to challenge my thinking process, and I 412 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 4: would open up to what I used to find on savory, 413 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 4: which is though universe of self help through podcasts like yours, 414 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 4: through books like mine, and through programs. If you're ready 415 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 4: and willing to really invest the time. The best investment 416 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 4: I ever made in my life was coaching. 417 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 3: Period the end. 418 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 4: Nothing comes close, and I have two fancy master's degrees. 419 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 4: This money way better spend. So I highly recommend going 420 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 4: on the inner journey and just being open to inquire 421 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 4: your mind and to understand whether these premises are even 422 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 4: serving you. You know, the best thing I can say 423 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 4: to anybody is no, it's not. Just The business is 424 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: very successful, and having a book deal is cool, and 425 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 4: speaking all over the world is amazing, and coaching big 426 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 4: companies like Nike and JP Morgan is super glam love it. 427 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 4: But the biggest success of my life, and I mean 428 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 4: this from the bottom of my heart, is I get 429 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 4: to live with a person I adore. I love Ryan 430 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 4: so much. I hope he never dies. I like who 431 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 4: I am so much. I don't worry about eating chocolate 432 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 4: cake anymore. I'm not freaking out about the end of 433 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 4: the world. If a meal goes wrong, it's freedom. I 434 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 4: want everybody to feel that, whether you see it in 435 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 4: your bank account immediately or not, this is what we 436 00:21:59,480 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 4: came for. 437 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 2: Do you think that your purpose and your job always 438 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 2: have to be the same thing. 439 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 3: No, of course not. 440 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 4: And I also don't think that your purpose is not malleable. 441 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 4: I think that it can change many times in your life. 442 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 4: I think you are asking too much of yourself if 443 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 4: you demand to define it. What really purpose is is 444 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 4: just the way that you express yourself best. The essence 445 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 4: of who you are expresses itself best through you. Like 446 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 4: continuing to live like a child for the rest of 447 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 4: your life. It's certainly not a job. Many people have 448 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 4: said to me, Karen, you found your calling. That's adorbes. 449 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 4: But like, how do you know that what if one 450 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 4: day I want to be a politician, What if I 451 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 4: am the most talented interior decorator you've ever seen, I 452 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 4: will still be doing the same thing. The only reason 453 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 4: people associate purpose with legacy or with a definitive title 454 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 4: is perfectionism. They are attempting to make a statement that 455 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,640 Speaker 4: controls and perfects the purpose. 456 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 3: This is nonsense. But your purpose, well. 457 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: Right, it's so interesting. You know, I'm forty two, and 458 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 2: I think probably late thirties, early forties, we all go 459 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 2: through this what people used to deem midlife crisis. But 460 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 2: I think for me, what it's looked like is are 461 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 2: the things that I'm spending my day doing really utilizing 462 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: my energy in the right way or the way that, 463 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 2: like you said, I'm really embracing the complete essence of 464 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: my energy giving back, using it to give back all 465 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: of those things. And I was really curious about purpose 466 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: when I started really diving into that, and I kept going, well, 467 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: do I need to start a new business? Do I 468 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 2: need to? And I had an energy healer say to me, 469 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,880 Speaker 2: you know, your purpose is really more about like your 470 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 2: energy is this? And she described it, and she was like, 471 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 2: so you could really be doing anything, and it's how 472 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 2: you apply that energy to what you're doing. And that 473 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 2: clicked for me and I was like, oh, that's my 474 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 2: purpose is exactly what you just said. 475 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 4: And overachievers are so ambitious that what they end up 476 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,720 Speaker 4: applying is skill or talent, right to milk that into 477 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 4: a life to feel satisfactory. 478 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: This is never going to be possible. 479 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's find people who are even talented singers who 480 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 4: don't love what they do. 481 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,120 Speaker 3: It's just not what they want to. 482 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 2: Do right, right, So how do you utilize your energy 483 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 2: and your essence and all of those pieces? I love that. Well, 484 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 2: the book is called Gilded, like I said earlier, and 485 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 2: I'm going to put the link in the bio for 486 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 2: you guys, Karen, if people want to either work with 487 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 2: you or keep up with you, where will they find you? 488 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,640 Speaker 4: They would find me on k E R e N 489 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 4: T ease Elda d dot com and of course I 490 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 4: hope that they pick up break Free with Gilded dot com, 491 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 4: which is where you come buy the book at the moment, 492 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 4: and we'll take it from there. 493 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: Amazing. I'll put all of that in the description for 494 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: this podcast. Thank you so much. It was such a joy. 495 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 2: Talking to you today. 496 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 3: Likewise a real pleasure. 497 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, 498 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet and a 499 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty 500 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.