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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Joe McCormick. And today is going to be

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Speaker 3: the first time on this show that we are going

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Speaker 3: to be looking at films of the Silent Era. Rob

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Speaker 3: and I were talking about this, and we think maybe

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Speaker 3: this will be a recurring episode type where we look

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Speaker 3: at a couple of short films from the Silent era,

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Speaker 3: because most films of this time are not very long.

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Speaker 3: Though maybe it would be hard to talk about for

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Speaker 3: an entire episode on their own, so we're doing a

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Speaker 3: double feature today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Boy, Already there's a lot of to unpack though,

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Speaker 2: because yes, it's true, there are a lot of short

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Speaker 2: silent films, but they are also a fair number. When

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Speaker 2: I was looking around at possibilities for today, some of

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Speaker 2: them are longer than you'd expect them to be. And

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Speaker 2: add to that that they are also silent films, which,

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Speaker 2: if you know, unless you're dealing with very certain high

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Speaker 2: standard silent films, you know, true classics of the time period,

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Speaker 2: it could feel a lot longer than it actually is.

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Speaker 3: You know, Oh yeah, totally. I mean I was thinking

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Speaker 3: about this before we got started. I was thinking about

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Speaker 3: that quote from Videodrome where Professor Brian Oblivion is talking

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Speaker 3: about television and he says, the television screen is the

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Speaker 3: retina of the mind's eye. Therefore, the television screen is

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Speaker 3: part of the physical structure of the brain. Therefore, whatever

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Speaker 3: appears on the television screen emerges as raw experience for

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Speaker 3: those who watch it. Therefore, television is reality, and reality

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Speaker 3: is less than television. Now that's turned up a little

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Speaker 3: bit past the ten marker to get it into the

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Speaker 3: weirdness of Cronenberg territory. But essentially there's a nugget of

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Speaker 3: truth in that. And what I mean by that is

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Speaker 3: that the films of the Silent era have generally not

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Speaker 3: yet breached the raw experience threshold. They are works of

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Speaker 3: art that have to be appreciated across a kind of

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Speaker 3: mental distance and with effortful dedication of attention, more like

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Speaker 3: a painting or a work of fiction. In text, like

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Speaker 3: reading a book. You know, it takes a certain amount

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Speaker 3: of sustained, effortful attention to read a story, but at

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Speaker 3: a certain level of development. The techniques used in film

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Speaker 3: and television, especially once you introduce synchronized sound, and like

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Speaker 3: really good film editing techniques and good acting and all that.

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Speaker 3: At a certain point, they become so well honed that

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Speaker 3: no effortful dedication of attention is required and no distance

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Speaker 3: must be crossed, Like the films of today are generally

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Speaker 3: automatically engrossing, even if they're not good, as soon as

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Speaker 3: you're aware of them, they're simply happening in your mind.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. So it's in a way,

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Speaker 2: interacting with a silent film or even a challenging piece

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Speaker 2: of stationary art, it's it's like one of those scenes

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Speaker 2: in Cronenberg Scanners where you're staring intently at another thing

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Speaker 2: and your your your brain is beginning to like boil

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Speaker 2: and swell in your head as you concentrate and force

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Speaker 2: yourself to merge your your consciousness with the art before you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And so while I would say I really

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Speaker 3: enjoy a lot of silent films, but for me they

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Speaker 3: are they are not as easy, not as automatic, not

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Speaker 3: as magical as the films of the modern era that

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Speaker 3: are automatically engrossing. Like that, they're more like the way

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Speaker 3: I have to appreciate written fiction as text. You know

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Speaker 3: that there's something that can be very rewarding to pay

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Speaker 3: close attention to, but it takes work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, when you when you mentioned films

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Speaker 2: of the modern era, it is worth noting just how

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Speaker 2: quickly the technology and the craft evolve, because I think

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Speaker 2: both of our films that we're going to focus on

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Speaker 2: at lengths today are from the nineteen twenties. And as

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Speaker 2: an experiment, I looked at the year nineteen twenty five

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Speaker 2: and there's a silent film titled The Lost World from

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Speaker 2: that year, based on the story by Sir Arthur Conan

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Speaker 2: Doyle with dinosaurs in it. So of course it has

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Speaker 2: pioneering stop motion dino animation in it that looks really cool,

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Speaker 2: but it is still a silent film. There's still all

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Speaker 2: these barriers to being able to properly immerse yourself in it.

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Speaker 2: You fast forward just one decade and you have nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty five, that's the year Mad Love came out, which,

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Speaker 2: you know, despite very much being an older film, you

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Speaker 2: can watch it and you become immersed in it and

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Speaker 2: you're feeling the characters and you feel like you're a

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Speaker 2: part of this world, and it illustrates just how far

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Speaker 2: it came in those ten years, you know, just how

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Speaker 2: much the craft and the technology changed, enabling you to

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Speaker 2: tell different types of stories and bring the viewer closer,

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Speaker 2: you know, truly creating this videodrome situation that you described earlier.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would say there are a couple of

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Speaker 3: things there. I mean, I would say, like you're pointing out,

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Speaker 3: one of the main technological differences is synchronized sound. I

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Speaker 3: mean that that's a game changer on its own. But

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Speaker 3: on top of that, i'd say, with Mad Love, you

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Speaker 3: have a really exceptional example from its era as well,

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Speaker 3: the exceptional photographic techniques of Carl Freund. You know, behind

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Speaker 3: the camera, you've got the exceptional charisma of the actors

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Speaker 3: on screen, of course, the incomparable Peter Lorrie. Then you

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Speaker 3: have the hyper nervous energy of Colin Clive in it,

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Speaker 3: and so so all of that is true. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: as time goes on, it's funny how much the techniques

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Speaker 3: just like get developed and become sort of self referencing

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Speaker 3: and industrial automatic cliches, where even the bad movies of

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Speaker 3: today are typically very engrossing automatically, like if one's playing

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Speaker 3: in the room, you so easily just start watching it

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Speaker 3: and then it's just in your brain.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and it is worth with no you mentioned

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Speaker 2: Carl Frond, the director of Mad Love. He of course

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Speaker 2: was cinematographer on nineteen twenty seven silent masterpiece Metropolis. So

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Speaker 2: the great work that would come with the talkies, I

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Speaker 2: mean it very much emerges from the silent era. Like

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Speaker 2: the silent era is the period in which the tools

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Speaker 2: were coming online, the sort of substructure of our cinematic

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Speaker 2: legacy was being built.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good point, and I would say for me,

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Speaker 3: Metropolis is probably the most engrossing silent film I've ever seen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of the all time greats. So we

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Speaker 2: have to mention Nosferatu, the Cabinet of Doctor Caligari, a

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Speaker 2: trip to the Moon, and I believe we talked about

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Speaker 2: a trip to the Moon a little bit in our

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Speaker 2: Invention series on filmmaking and photography, where we discussed more

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Speaker 2: of the technological side of the silent film era.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's a very good point. If you want to

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Speaker 3: get some background before the rest of this episode, you

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Speaker 3: could pause here, go listen to our entire series on

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Speaker 3: the Invention podcast that we did. But I think we

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Speaker 3: did one that started with the history of photography, beginning

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Speaker 3: with the camera.

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Speaker 2: Oh I think we started with the camera obscura.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, even going back to there, but then then

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Speaker 3: going into photography and then going into motion pictures, and

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Speaker 3: so if you want more contexts, probably a lot of

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Speaker 3: things that at this point I don't even remember that

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Speaker 3: we talked about, so I may have lost some really

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Speaker 3: good contexts. So if you want, go listen to that

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Speaker 3: and then come back and listen to the rest of this.

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Speaker 3: But so today we are going to be talking about

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Speaker 3: a couple of silent films. I think are they both

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Speaker 3: from the early twenties. Minds from nineteen twenty two is

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Speaker 3: yours from twenty.

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Speaker 2: One, It is, indeed from nineteen twenty one. Yes, Okay, However,

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Speaker 2: we are not doing any of the classics we discussed earlier.

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Speaker 2: I think both of these are harder to come by.

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Speaker 2: They're maybe more obscure, So, you know, I think they're

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Speaker 2: both very fun choices, and in a way they're choices

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Speaker 2: that circumvent your expectations the silent era, unless you, of course,

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Speaker 2: are already just versed in the silent era and you

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Speaker 2: know a lot of the history and the culture of

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Speaker 2: what was going on at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Joe, do.

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Speaker 2: You want to you want to go first and roll

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Speaker 2: right into your selection?

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Speaker 3: Sure, I'll go first. The film I selected for this

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Speaker 3: episode is an early animated film by a German filmmaker

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Speaker 3: named Latta Reineger, and it is the nineteen twenty two

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Speaker 3: short film Cinderella. The German title is Ashenpuddle. Now. My

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Speaker 3: main source of biographical information about Reineger comes from the

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen New York Times retrospective by Debbie Lockwood, which

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Speaker 3: is part of a series called Overlooked, which seems to

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Speaker 3: be sort of post hoc obituaries for remarkable people who

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Speaker 3: originally didn't get obituaries in the Times when they passed away.

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Speaker 3: So Lota Reineger was born Charlotte Reineger. I think Lotta

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Speaker 3: is a German shortening of the name Charlotte. She was

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Speaker 3: born on June second, eighteen ninety nine to carl and

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Speaker 3: Eleanor Reineger and live in Berlin. And when she was

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Speaker 3: in school she learned about something called scheren Schnitte, which

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Speaker 3: means scissor cuts in German, and this was similar to

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Speaker 3: a Chinese art form that dated back hundreds of years,

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Speaker 3: but it had become popular in German art at the time,

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Speaker 3: I think in Swiss art too, and essentially it consisted

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Speaker 3: of making art by cutting silhouette images out of paper

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Speaker 3: with fine shears. But Lotta Reineger enjoyed this art form

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Speaker 3: when she was young, cutting out silhouettes of people. She

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Speaker 3: knew not just to mount them on the wall or

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Speaker 3: press them in an album, but she would make them

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Speaker 3: move and act out scenes in a homemade shadow theater

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Speaker 3: to do scenes from the plays of Shakespeare. And as

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Speaker 3: she got older, she became interested in the at this

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Speaker 3: point blossoming art form of film, originally thinking of becoming

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Speaker 3: an actress, but she soon discovered the possibilities of animation

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Speaker 3: as an art form that's unique to film, and of

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Speaker 3: course this would have been still during the Silent era,

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Speaker 3: and she ended up studying at the Max Reinhardt School

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Speaker 3: of Acting under the German filmmaker Paul Wegner, where she

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Speaker 3: showed off her talent for silhouette cutting, cutting out these

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Speaker 3: figures in paper and then, to read from Debbie Lockwood's

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Speaker 3: article quote, Wegner soon enlisted her to help with his

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighteen film The Pied Piper of Hamlin, an adaptation

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Speaker 3: of the folk legend about a man who's hired to

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Speaker 3: play his magic flute to lure away rats from a

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Speaker 3: German town. When the town refuses to pay him for

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Speaker 3: his services, the piper plays another tune to hypnotize the

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Speaker 3: children and lead them out of the town, never to

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Speaker 3: be seen again. Wegner had Reineger help him animate wooden

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Speaker 3: puppet rats for the film, and after this she had

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Speaker 3: the bugs. She wanted to make films for a living,

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Speaker 3: so she later met and married an art historian named

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Speaker 3: Carl Koch, who she would collaborate with on a number

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Speaker 3: of her films, and her career would go on at

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Speaker 3: this point to span sixty years, including over seventy films

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Speaker 3: animated by this silhouette cutout technique, where she would cut

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Speaker 3: figures out of paper with scissors and then film them

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Speaker 3: moving on a transparent surface to create the action that

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Speaker 3: you see on the screen.

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Speaker 2: Now, Paul Wegen, who you mentioned earlier, for anyone out

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Speaker 2: there who just wondering who that is, he was one

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Speaker 2: of the directors and writers on the nineteen fifteen film

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Speaker 2: The Golum. You've probably seen images of this. The clay

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Speaker 2: golum figure in black and white, very haunting, and he

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Speaker 2: also played the golum.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is correct. So in nineteen nineteen, Lada Reiniger

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Speaker 3: and Carl Koch together created a silhouette animated short film

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Speaker 3: called The Ornament of the Heart in Love, which is,

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Speaker 3: in the words of Debbie Lockwood, here about two lovers,

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Speaker 3: both ballet dancers, and a morphing ornament between them that

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Speaker 3: represents their emotions.

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Speaker 2: Now, one thing I really love about that description is

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Speaker 2: that if that description sounds like you could easily describe

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Speaker 2: a current or upcoming Pixar short, you know. So an

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Speaker 2: area of animation, of mainstream animation where we often think

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Speaker 2: of like this is where the really inventive ideas and

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Speaker 2: formats that are going to be explored, you know, and

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Speaker 2: we think of it as kind of at times, we

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Speaker 2: can think of it as a place that we can

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Speaker 2: only come to after, you know, a century of animation

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Speaker 2: and filmmaking. But here we are in nineteen nineteen, and

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Speaker 2: there's just as much ingenuity and creativity in using you know,

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Speaker 2: different formats to tell a story with visuals.

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Speaker 3: That's a very good point. Yeah, early on, there was

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Speaker 3: a lot of elasticity about what a film could be,

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Speaker 3: what should be the contents of a film.

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Speaker 2: So while well, today it's more like what can we

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Speaker 2: break to create something new? Like this is an age

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Speaker 2: where a lot of stuff was unformed, you know. It

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Speaker 2: was the amorphous age of filmmaking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So her most his famous film is the

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Speaker 3: nineteen twenty six silent movie The Adventures of Prince Ahmed,

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Speaker 3: which is an adaptation of the Arabic classic One thousand

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Speaker 3: and one Nights, which was one of the first feature

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Speaker 3: length animated films in history. And to quote from Lockwood

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Speaker 3: here describing her technological and creative process, quote, Reineger's editing

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Speaker 3: was meticulous. Starting with more than two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: thousand frames, she and her crew used just over one

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Speaker 3: hundred thousand in the film, which ran for an hour

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Speaker 3: and twenty one minutes each second, requiring twenty four frames.

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Speaker 3: It took three years to complete and premiered in Volkspoon

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Speaker 3: or People's Theater in Berlin when Reineger was twenty seven.

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Speaker 3: The film showcased the fantastical potential of animation. A prince

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Speaker 3: defeated an army of demons to win over a princess,

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Speaker 3: birds battled witches and sorcerers, horses flew. The French film

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Speaker 3: director Jeanrenois saw Princemed on its opening night in Paris

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Speaker 3: and later recalled that he wanted to tell her, you

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Speaker 3: have fairy hands. Reineger designed a complex process to make

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Speaker 3: her films. She cut each limb of each figure out

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Speaker 3: of black cardboard and thin lead, then join them together

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Speaker 3: with wire hinges. For research, she spent hours at the

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Speaker 3: Zoo Berlin watching how the animals moved. And then I

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Speaker 3: was reading later in this article that she also pioneered

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Speaker 3: new technology for creating animated films, including a device called

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Speaker 3: a trick tish or trick table, and this involved a

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Speaker 3: camera that would be hanging in the air facing down

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Speaker 3: onto a table made of layers of glass, which would

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Speaker 3: form the stage for the silhouette cutouts to play upon,

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Speaker 3: and then you would have a bright light underneath that

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Speaker 3: would cause the wire hinges used at the joints of

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Speaker 3: these figures to disappear, and it was basically stop motion animation.

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Speaker 3: They would take a photo of a that she had

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Speaker 3: set out, and then she would advance the figures slightly

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Speaker 3: in their movement to advance the action, and then take

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Speaker 3: a photo again building the film frame by frame. Now,

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Speaker 3: as with any German filmmaker working in the first half

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Speaker 3: of the twentieth century, you end up wondering, okay, did

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Speaker 3: they end up within the Hitler machine right, Because of

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Speaker 3: course Nazi Germany was big on using film as propaganda.

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Speaker 3: So I was reading about this, and it seems like

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Speaker 3: after Hitler came to power, Lata and Carl left to

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Speaker 3: Germany and tried to make a life in other countries

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Speaker 3: like France and Italy and England. Apparently they were politically

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Speaker 3: opposed to Hitler, but they could not get visas, or

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Speaker 3: they couldn't get the visas they wanted to stay permanently

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Speaker 3: in the other countries they went to, so it seems

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Speaker 3: like they were essentially taking long vacations in other countries

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Speaker 3: where they were working and then having to come back

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Speaker 3: and then leave again. They were eventually forced to move

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Speaker 3: back to Berlin in nineteen forty four, apparently to take

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Speaker 3: care of Latta's mother, who is very sick, and I

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Speaker 3: can only find evidence that she worked on one film

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Speaker 3: in this period called The Golden Goose, which I have

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Speaker 3: seen described as a propaganda film, but I can't find

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Speaker 3: much about it, so I don't know, but together they

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Speaker 3: moved to England in nineteen forty eight and she made

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Speaker 3: some children's films for the BBC, and she passed away

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Speaker 3: on June nineteenth, nineteen eighty one, at the age of

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Speaker 3: eighty two. So the film that we're going to be

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Speaker 3: looking at today is from her early period, from nineteen

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Speaker 3: twenty two, and it is an adaptation of the Cinderella

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Speaker 3: folk tale. I was reading about this in Lockwood's article

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Speaker 3: where apparently the Cinderella adaptation was reviewed by The New

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Speaker 3: York Times in nineteen twenty eight, where the author Charles

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Speaker 3: Morgan wrote, the small black shapes laugh at you from

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Speaker 3: a world of their own, into which naturalism makes no

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Speaker 3: laborious entry. And I really like phrasing it like that,

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Speaker 3: because I think this little animated film is wonderful. And uh,

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Speaker 3: and I see what he meant by that with naturalism

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Speaker 3: makes no laborious entry. Something about the animation style feels

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Speaker 3: so free.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, this is a beautiful picture. And if anybody

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Speaker 2: who wants to see that, the two films that we're

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Speaker 2: discussing here, I'll make sure that I include links to

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Speaker 2: them or embedded versions of them on the blog post.

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Speaker 2: That accompanies this episode at Summuda music dot com. But

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Speaker 2: the yeah, the style of this is so divorced from

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Speaker 2: from reality. It just comes out of It's like it's

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Speaker 2: a reality that is passed from from from fairy tale

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Speaker 2: book to fairytale book. You know, there was a there's

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Speaker 2: a quote that you included in the in our notes

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Speaker 2: for this episode from Ao Scott where he describes quote

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Speaker 2: dreamy images that seem to tap right into the collective

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Speaker 2: unconscious that suggests both in antidote to Disney and a

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Speaker 2: precursor to Tim Burton. And it's interesting that Scott mentioned

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Speaker 2: Disney here because in nineteen twenty two, Disney Walt Disney

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Speaker 2: the Animator also put out a Cinderella animated short. But

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Speaker 2: it is very much connected to the real world. Like

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Speaker 2: you see, I didn't even watch it in its entirety.

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Speaker 2: I just kind of flipped around and got a sense

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Speaker 2: of it. But like there are scenes of like flapper culture,

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Speaker 2: you know, and stuff like that, and like it's very

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Speaker 2: it's hitched to the real world of the time, whereas yeah,

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Speaker 2: this one is it seems to exist in an artistic

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Speaker 2: unreality that is so much more engrossing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it is the story of Cinderella. The story

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Speaker 3: element is fairly straightforward, but it's the animation that really

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Speaker 3: sings here. It is an animation based on these silhouettes,

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Speaker 3: these cutout these paper cutout figure silhouettes and stop motion animation.

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Speaker 3: And as for the plot content, it is decidedly more

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Speaker 3: in the brothers grim direction than the sanitized versions would

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Speaker 3: come later, like the in the full length animated Cinderella

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Speaker 3: by Disney and so in that version, And so that

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Speaker 3: means that in this version it is a magic tree

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Speaker 3: instead of a fairy godmother, a creepy magic tree on

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Speaker 3: a hill and a cemetery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's as if nature itself is the force that

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Speaker 2: answers her call, as opposed to, you know, any particular human,

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Speaker 2: humanized force.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. You also get that Cinderella's wicked stepsister absolutely does

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Speaker 3: chop off part of her own foot in order to

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Speaker 3: fit into the slipper and get with the prince. Oh yes,

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Speaker 3: but the slipper fills up with blood and it doesn't work.

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Speaker 3: And then there's a really funny scene where the other

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Speaker 3: sister tries is she's about to chop off her own

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Speaker 3: foot to fit in the slipper, and the Prince is

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Speaker 3: just like, no, no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this is such a fun silent film. Like when

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Speaker 2: I told that my family, I'm like, hey, guys, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna sit down and watch a silent film together. And

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Speaker 2: the boy didn't really even know what I meant by

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Speaker 2: that because he didn't have much exposure to sign films.

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Speaker 2: My wife was hesitant. Then I'm like, don't worry. It's

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Speaker 2: it's animated, and it's it's Cinderella, and it's really really delightful.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, has kind of a shadow puppetry. I

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Speaker 2: look to it, and so they're like, okay, and we

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Speaker 2: sit down. We watched it. The the the bits of

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Speaker 2: humor generated laughter from all of us. The toe cutting

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Speaker 2: made us all scream out loud, you know, in a

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Speaker 2: fun way, because it's, you know, the style divorces it

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Speaker 2: enough from reality that you're not legitimately horrified, but you're like, ah,

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Speaker 2: don't do that, so it Yeah, it's just tremendous fun. Now.

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Speaker 3: One choice about this movie that I found very interesting

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Speaker 3: was the choice to include the animation method as part

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Speaker 3: of the narrative. So I don't know, Rob, did the

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Speaker 3: version you watched have title cards or or what language

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Speaker 3: were the title cards in if it did.

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Speaker 2: Oh, well, the version I watched it did have some

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Speaker 2: title cards, but I believe they were No, they were

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Speaker 2: in English. Maybe I just didn't read them. I was

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Speaker 2: just getting set up at the time. But for the

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Speaker 2: most part, Yeah, it's just a visual presentation, and I

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Speaker 2: guess it helps to know the story. So as we

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Speaker 2: watched it, we were kind of taking it apart a

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Speaker 2: little bit. We're like, oh, yeah, I guess she's doing

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Speaker 2: this now, Oh, yes, this must be instead of a

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Speaker 2: fairy godmother, it's this tree and now the birds are

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Speaker 2: involved that sort of thing.

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Speaker 3: Well, I meant the inter title cards, yeah, between the action.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know now that you mention it, though, Joe.

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Speaker 2: The version that I watched with my family was on vimeo, okay,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think that one had title cards in it.

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Speaker 2: I think that was just the animation. But I've been

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Speaker 2: playing the YouTube version in the corner of my screen

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Speaker 2: as we record here, and yeah, I'm getting some dialogue

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Speaker 2: that was not present in the version we screened.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so at the beginning of the version. There are

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Speaker 3: different versions. Different ones have different title cards, inner titles,

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Speaker 3: and the version that I was watching had the English

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Speaker 3: titles that begin what Cinderella suffered from the two sisters

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Speaker 3: and her stepmother, how she grew into a fairy princess.

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Speaker 3: Here is seen told by a pair of scissors on

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Speaker 3: a screen, so they're like including the fact that this

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Speaker 3: is made by scissors, and it's in the animation too.

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Speaker 3: It begins with black silhouettes on a blue background of

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Speaker 3: a small pair of scissors kicking around in the void,

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Speaker 3: almost like a frog paddling in the water. And then

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Speaker 3: a pair of hands comes in and they chase the

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Speaker 3: scissors around, they catch them, and then they use them

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Speaker 3: to cut a figure out of a piece of paper,

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Speaker 3: and that figure will be our heroine, Cinderella, which I

403
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Speaker 3: thought was a very interesting choice. One totally unrelated side

404
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Speaker 3: note about the inner titles. If you're watching this with kids,

405
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Speaker 3: you might want to check the version you're watching first

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Speaker 3: because one of the inner titles in one of the

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Speaker 3: ones I saw, had a word in it that used

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Speaker 3: to have a different connotation now has Now it is

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Speaker 3: a pejorative term used for women, but I think it

410
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Speaker 3: was previously a pejorative term used for women, but with

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Speaker 3: different connotations.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Fortunately that was not in the version that I

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Speaker 2: watched with my family.

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Speaker 3: Yes, check which version if you're going to show it

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Speaker 3: to kids, But I.

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Speaker 2: Do love the visual opening of watching the hands cut

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Speaker 2: out a character with the scissors. It reminds me of

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Speaker 2: some of the differences you see in puppetry, where you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's about hiding the fact that it's puppetry and

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Speaker 2: hiding the puppeteer and letting the figures take on a

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Speaker 2: life for themselves. Other times you have very visual puppeteers,

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Speaker 2: and part of it is about acknowledging that the role

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Speaker 2: that the puppeteer plays and bringing this to life, and

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Speaker 2: it not mattering that you can see that it is

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Speaker 2: not real and is in the story you like. You know,

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Speaker 2: you're not looking at real people, You're looking at a

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Speaker 2: very stylized form of paper cutting and an animation. But

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Speaker 2: that's part of the magic.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. And it's very creepy at the beginning actually

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Speaker 3: with the scissors and the figure, because when the hands

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Speaker 3: finish their work, there's this moment where the figure of

432
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 3: Cinderella is created and then she's posed dangling with the

433
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: scissors attached to her head and displayed open, and it

434
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 3: resembles a kind of torture device or something. I don't know.

435
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: I didn't get that so much. I thought I thought

436
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: it was more she was manipulating it with the scissors.

437
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 2: So it's just the artistos now I do want to

438
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 2: This is a great place to discuss this though, the

439
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 2: creepiness quote unquote of this short film. The version that

440
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 2: you sent me had some added music. Music is a

441
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 2: whole separate issue in silent film, because, yeah, sometimes you

442
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 2: have specific works that are passed down where we can

443
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: look at the sheet music and reproduce it. Other times

444
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: we don't know what music, if any, was associated with

445
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: a particular silent film. A lot of times music from

446
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: that era can sound herky, jerky and kind of annoying.

447
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 2: And you can, of course always play your own music

448
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 2: on top. And there have been numerous cases where someone

449
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,800
Speaker 2: has composed new music, you know, be it rock or

450
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: electronic or what have you, for classic silent films. So

451
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: the version you and ually sent me had some added music.

452
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was composed by him for

453
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,199
Speaker 2: this or someone who just picked a track by them,

454
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: but it has music by evangelists.

455
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:09,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

456
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: The composer, of course, probably most famous for his work

457
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,680
Speaker 2: on Blade runner and I love vangelists, but it's kind

458
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: of creepy music, and it was kind of leading to

459
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: a creepy interpretation of what I was seeing. So just

460
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: a minute or two into it, we switched to some

461
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: more upbeat music to play over it. We played just

462
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 2: a channel on Soma f M, and I found that

463
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 2: lighter tone hit almost immediately and was ultimately more fun.

464
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 2: But the music that we choose or is chosen for us,

465
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 2: with silent films like this, they can have such a

466
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: huge effect on how we interpret them.

467
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're exactly right about that. And it's

468
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 3: funny because the animation has both elements, Like the animation

469
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 3: is a little bit creepy, but it's also funny. It's

470
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: both at the same time, and so you can easily

471
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 3: lean more in one direction or the other by adding

472
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: the right tone in the sound.

473
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Because again, it has some laugh out loud moments. Yeah,

474
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get to them here in a minute.

475
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: So I'm obviously not going to spend a lot of

476
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 3: time explaining the implied plot. Like it's Cinderella, you basically

477
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 3: know the plot. I love the cutouts of the Wicked Stepsisters.

478
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 3: One is very thin and very tall, and the other

479
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 3: one is very short and stout. And so we see

480
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,119
Speaker 3: the wicked stepsisters being mean. We see the wicked step

481
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: mother abusing Cinderella. She's like poking her with a cane

482
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,960
Speaker 3: while Cinderella is cleaning the stairs. And then you get

483
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 3: more references to scissors and cutting intertwined with the plot

484
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: in the inner titles. So there's an inner title that

485
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 3: says snip and we have the Kings rs VP snip

486
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: and the magic birds have set her free.

487
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of fun is had with the magic

488
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 2: birds in this. Oh, I love the magic birds are

489
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 2: perfect for this kind of cutout technique.

490
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 3: Yes, And so according to the story, Cinderella cannot go

491
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,639
Speaker 3: to the Prince's ball, but she has to help her

492
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 3: wicked stepsisters get ready to attend, and this is a

493
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 3: good comedic scene. She has to comb their hair and

494
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 3: lace their corsets for one of their sisters, the very thin,

495
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 3: very tall one. There's a moment where you see Cinderella

496
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: dumping household objects into her bodice, presumably to fill it out.

497
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,880
Speaker 3: So she's like throwing I think like pots and pans

498
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,119
Speaker 3: in there. It's very funny.

499
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is this is a lot of fun. And

500
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,959
Speaker 2: you know, another thing worth driving home. You mentioned how

501
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 2: we didn't really have to describe the plot of of Cinderella.

502
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 2: One of the reasons is that, like this is pretty

503
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: much a universal story. The basic story of Cinderella exists

504
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: in various cultures. You know. It's just it's it's that

505
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: important of a trope, you know, this idea of the

506
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 2: downtrodden and the oppressed rising up in this in this nature.

507
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 2: There's a there's an old Chinese version of this as well.

508
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't think I knew that.

509
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and there are various other versions of it

510
00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 2: from just around the world, like the It's it's interesting

511
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 2: how such a potent fairy tale like this you just

512
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 2: find versions of it throughout human culture.

513
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure that does help with getting it. And

514
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: the other thing is you mentioned earlier the idea of

515
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 3: like nature itself sort of being the thing that helps Cinderella.

516
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 3: In this version, it's not like a single fairy godmother,

517
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 3: but it's the birds and it's the tree. And it's

518
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 3: really interesting the way she's got this pre existing connection

519
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 3: with the birds, like they're just on her side from

520
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: the beginning. So the wicked stepmother is having Cinderella clean

521
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 3: up spilled lentils from the floor while the wicked stepsisters

522
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: go off to the ball. But then a flock of

523
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 3: birds come by to help her out, and we get

524
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 3: a title that says snip and she gathers from her

525
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 3: apple trees the golden gown of the hesperites the silver coach.

526
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 3: But when the clock strikes one warn the bird voices

527
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 3: Cinderella run, and so we see the magic tree and

528
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 3: Cinderella goes out to this creepy, lonely hillside with a

529
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 3: tree at the top of it. It's kind of sad

530
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 3: drooping tree, and the tree ends up granting her wish

531
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: for a gown and a coach to take her to

532
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: the ball.

533
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 2: I like how this was pre code so she could

534
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 2: stay out till one.

535
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 3: And Cinderella's gown I have to say, this looks sort

536
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 3: of like a cyberpunk pressure suit like Bruce Willis is

537
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 3: wearing at the beginning of Twelve Monkeys. I guess maybe

538
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 3: she's going to work in the Prince's virology lab. But

539
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 3: it's very puffy and it's covered in these lines around

540
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: the top that could be gas hoses.

541
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like it's just made out of nature,

542
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Like she's coated in mycillium and stuff. You know, it's

543
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 2: pretty cool looking.

544
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really good. So Cinderella goes to the ball.

545
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 3: She dances with the prince. The stepsister is very jealous.

546
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 3: The prince falls in love with Cinderella and kisses her,

547
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: but then of course she has to flee at midnight,

548
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 3: and the prince loses her. And then comes the search

549
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: you know from the story, based on the slipper that

550
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: she drops while she's running out, and so you see

551
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: this royal raid go out to find the owner of

552
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 3: the slipper. They're putting it on people's feet, and when

553
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 3: the prince comes to the house, Cinderella is made to

554
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: hide in the cellar because the wicked stepmother does not

555
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: want her to be seen by the prince, and the

556
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: wicked stepsisters are trying to they're trying to snag the prince.

557
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: So one of them, yep, she chops part of her

558
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: own foot off. And that part was seriously hilarious.

559
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, again, we were all just going ah

560
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: when it happened, and you know, I know that that's

561
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: a part of you know, the grimmer versions. Of this tale,

562
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: but I guess it wasn't quite expecting and it happens

563
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 2: so suddenly too it catches you off guard.

564
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, she just reaches down with the knife and just

565
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 3: chops off the front of her foot, and then she's

566
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 3: still trying to put the mutilated foot into the slipper,

567
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 3: but it fills up with blood. So this is the

568
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 3: X rated version. But eventually, of course, the magic birds

569
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 3: tell the Prince that Cinderella is hiding in the cellar,

570
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: and he goes down and he gets her out and

571
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 3: he lifts her up, and it's a happy ending, true love.

572
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: And then there's a great moment where I don't know

573
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 3: how else to describe this. The wicked stepmother is so

574
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: mad about Cinderella getting to marry the Prince that she

575
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: literally cracks in half, like a fissure runs down the

576
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: middle of her and she looks like a venus fly

577
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 3: trap opening up.

578
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 2: That's interesting. It was interesting because it made me think

579
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 2: of one of our recent episodes. We were talking about

580
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,719
Speaker 2: changes to fairy tales, and there was one in particular

581
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: in which somebody gets so mad they basically explode, which

582
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 2: I so, I guess it was an idea that existed

583
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 2: sort of in the fairy tale storytelling world at the time,

584
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 2: and you know, though, I and perhaps it occur as

585
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 2: in a written version of Cinderella, but it was. It

586
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 2: was a delightful surprise here that you're having sort of

587
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: Mortal Kombat type fatalities occurring in this children's tale. Oh but,

588
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:57,600
Speaker 2: on the speaking of violence in this animated short, on

589
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,240
Speaker 2: the foot cutting, that the first foot cut was fabulous

590
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 2: and shocking and hilarious, but the second one was even better.

591
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: Oh yes, the second sister goes to put on the

592
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 2: shoe and it's not fitting either because her foot is

593
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: like too plump. And then you see her hand come

594
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: down with the knife because she's going to do the

595
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: exact same thing cut off part of her foot, and

596
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: the prince's hand slaps it out of the way as

597
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: it's like, nope, nope, you're not doing that trick.

598
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 3: That not allowed against the rules, no foot cutting. And

599
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 3: I love the implied sneakiness with the knife or she's like,

600
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 3: oh I think I dropped something.

601
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, let me saw through the bones of my foot.

602
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 3: So yes, in the end, this movie is definitely worth

603
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: checking out. You can find different versions of it online.

604
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 3: I think that I have different title card situations and

605
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 3: different levels of restoration, but I absolutely love her animation style.

606
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tremendous. I'm really glad you turned me onto

607
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 2: this one. Yeah, So if you want to see it,

608
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: I just recommend you, know, you can find it on

609
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 2: the blog, but just go to something like YouTube or

610
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 2: or any other streaming video side and if you just

611
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 2: do a search for Cinderella nineteen twenty two, this will

612
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: turn up. You'll probably also turn up the Disney the

613
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: Walt Disney version as well, But this is the one

614
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 2: to watch. Choose your own music though, whatever you want.

615
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 2: Really you want to listen to Nurse with Wound while

616
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: watching it, then that's going to create at a certain feel.

617
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: But you can also put on something up beaten peppy.

618
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: You know, you could put on the hair metal band Cinderella.

619
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 2: Why yeah, why not? I mean, that's that's ultimately the

620
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: fun about this stuff. Do what you will with the

621
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: music on a silent film. I noticed in the Psychotronic

622
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 2: book by Michael Weldon, like he pretty much had the

623
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: same advice. Like he was like, the music often sucks,

624
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: turn it off if you don't like it, and then

625
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: realize You're gonna have to put in a little bit

626
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 2: of work sometimes to enjoy these films, but it's worth.

627
00:33:51,160 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 3: It, all right. Are we ready to look at our

628
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: second silent film today?

629
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? And again, this is one that I think a

630
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,520
Speaker 2: lot of people are not going to be that familiar with.

631
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: I was not familiar with it until I started looking

632
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: around for something to cover, and you know, again, I

633
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 2: wanted to cover something that that wasn't one of the

634
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 2: classics that were all somewhat familiar with, you know, that's

635
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: not Nosferatu and so forth, And so I came across

636
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: an Italian science fiction action comedy from nineteen twenty one,

637
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 2: The Mechanical Man. And it's especially worth discussing on weird

638
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 2: House cinema because this is the grandfather, or even the

639
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 2: great grandfather of films like Robot Jocks and gun Head.

640
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: Not only is it a film about robots battling each other,

641
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: it is seemingly the first film about robots battling each other.

642
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: Whoa so the elevator pitch on this one is a

643
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: remote control robot man with exceptional speed and strength is

644
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 2: captured by criminals and forced to do evil and this

645
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: eventually Coleman in an all out battle between two different robots.

646
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: Now, from what I understand, the robots are definitely what

647
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 3: drew us in to watch this, and they're a major

648
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 3: part of the section of the film that remains in

649
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: the archives. But if I understand correctly, the majority of

650
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 3: the original film was really focused less on the robots

651
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: and more on sort of the exploits of the lead

652
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 3: villain or antagonist.

653
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, that's that very much seems to be

654
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 2: the case. This was a second film in a proposed

655
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: trilogy that revolved around a cunning female criminal as opposed

656
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 2: to the robots. The robots I am to understand, we're

657
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: not in the first film.

658
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 3: Right, and this criminal lady is named do you call

659
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: it her? It's m a d O? Is it Madow

660
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:50,800
Speaker 3: or Mayto?

661
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, you know. They never say it out

662
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 2: loud in the film, so I read it as Matdow

663
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,959
Speaker 2: in my head and kept thinking of it as such. Yes,

664
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 2: Maddow is described as an evil countess. And the first

665
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 2: film was a human document from nineteen twenty and there's

666
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 2: not really much I could find out about it. It's

667
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: possibly probably a lost film in its entirety, so I

668
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: don't think there's any of it that remains, but it

669
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: featured many of the same characters as this film does,

670
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: and perhaps deals with the same central conflict between Maddow

671
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: and the Dara family, which is considered which is centered

672
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 2: around a dar a patriarch who is a brilliant inventor.

673
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, So throughout this film, or at least the

674
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: parts of it, we were able to see Maddow is

675
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: running around doing evil with her identity hidden behind a mask.

676
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: So she's got like a thing wrapped around her face

677
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 3: and head. And then at the end she is unmasked

678
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: and it is revealed that she is this Russian countess.

679
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 2: Right, and she's also electrocuted at the end. But I

680
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: guess she wasn't supposed to die because there was a

681
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 2: third film planned, but it didn't come together in the

682
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 2: post World War One period. So I thought we might

683
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: just look at some of the people involved in this one,

684
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: since you know, Cinderella did not have people in the

685
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,959
Speaker 2: actual film it was animated and was largely revolved around

686
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 2: a singular individual. This one had multiple people involved that

687
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 2: are worth mentioning. First of all, the director was a

688
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: man by the name of Andre Dead who lived eighteen

689
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 2: seventy nine through nineteen forty He was a French actor

690
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 2: and director who made a name for himself in this

691
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 2: series of comedy shorts called the fools Hed Comedies, and

692
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 2: they all had titles like fools Heads Holiday or Fool's

693
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 2: Head Has Lost a Needle, So, you know, just little

694
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,719
Speaker 2: comic adventures centered around this one ridiculous individual.

695
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 3: Fools had Scared Stupid.

696
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. You know, these were the earnest movies of

697
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 2: the day, and these were apparently internationally successful during the

698
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds and the nineteen tens, like these were, you know,

699
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 2: big money as much as anything was big money cinematically

700
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: in those days. They're mostly forgotten today, and certainly Deed

701
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 2: is I think mostly forgotten today by the public at large.

702
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: But he was a big deal at the time. But

703
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,919
Speaker 2: his career was somewhat disrupted by the outbreak of World

704
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,320
Speaker 2: War One, in which he was conscripted into the reserves,

705
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: and he may have served in the trenches. It seems

706
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: a little foggy on that. And afterwards he returned to

707
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: direct just a few more movies, and The Mechanical Man

708
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: was his final directorial effort. He continued to act through

709
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight, and he acts in this as well.

710
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: He plays a comic character name Saltarello who pops up

711
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 2: at one point. But yeah, for the most part, like

712
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: he's the director of this is his baby, his mechanical baby.

713
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 3: Do you know if he was the guy who was

714
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,359
Speaker 3: bouncing his butt up and down on the chair in

715
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 3: that scene that I couldn't understand.

716
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: I think he was, Yes, a very physical comedy, you know.

717
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: I guess it would be like because I think he

718
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: played Fool's Head in the fools Head movies. So it's like,

719
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 2: you know, if Ernest Or to direct a film like

720
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 2: he'd have to go in there for a cameo just

721
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 2: to keep the crowd happy, that.

722
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: Sort of thing. Okay, Yeah, yeah, So I enjoyed the

723
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,919
Speaker 3: parts of this movie that we were able to see

724
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,879
Speaker 3: that remain I will say, I don't think this guy

725
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: is quite on the Buster Keaton level as far as

726
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 3: the physical comedy of the Silent Era goes.

727
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, the main star of this again, this is

728
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,760
Speaker 2: ultimately about, yes, the robots, but also it's about Matdow,

729
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 2: this villainess that we've been discussing here, and she is

730
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 2: played by Valentina Frascaroli, who lived eighteen fifty five through

731
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. She also played the role in the

732
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 2: previous movie. She has eighty six film credits on IMDb,

733
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 2: including a bunch of Fool's Head shorts. According to Mary

734
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 2: Anne Lewinsky, writing for Il Cinema rich Ovata, she was

735
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 2: a versatile leading lady actor of the day. She starred

736
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 2: in both comedies like Clearly the Fools Heead Movie and

737
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 2: This to a ar degree, but she was also in

738
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 2: serious films as well. She was in a nineteen twenty

739
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 2: two film about Dante I believe it had a title

740
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: that translated to the Life and Times of Dante, and

741
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 2: she was also in an interesting looking puppet themed film,

742
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: The War and the Dream of Momi, from nineteen seventeen. Now,

743
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 2: as I learned in a Bruce Sterling article about this

744
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 2: is a twenty twelve piece for Wired magazine. This was

745
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: the second film in what Deed Planned is a Mado trilogy,

746
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 2: which he says explains why Mattos given so much screen time.

747
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 2: Mattow is the adventuress. She is a quote scheming white

748
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: Russian exiled countess, So you get the impression that again,

749
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: the first film I think is entirely lost. I can't

750
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: find in really any details about what it was about.

751
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: But she seems like she's always on the run, always

752
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 2: escaping and falling into more schemes. Even in this film.

753
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 2: I think she escapes a couple of times, once from

754
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: a prison infirmary by setting it on fire. And this

755
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: scene is also interesting because it contains some mild nudity,

756
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 2: like some side nudity, but you can't really make anything

757
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: out of it given the quality of the film, Like

758
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 2: you really have to squint to even tell that there

759
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 2: was maybe some mild nudity in this scene.

760
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 3: It's very European.

761
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: And also, I mean it speaks to like what this

762
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 2: movie was trying to do. It did not have as

763
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: much of a high minded artistic purpose this was about.

764
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a film in which giant robots

765
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:32,320
Speaker 2: ultimately battle each other. It has the same sort of

766
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 2: appeal that it's always had to us, you know, and

767
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 2: which again I think it speaks to the certainly the

768
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: creativity and you know, the science fiction dreams that were

769
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: present even in the nineteen twenties, but also the fact

770
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: that like people went to the cinema to be entertained this,

771
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 2: and this was a film that was trying to entertain people.

772
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 2: Now again, indeed, never got to make that third Matto picture,

773
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 2: but you know, we can only wonder what could have

774
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 2: transpired in it. You know, she's again she's electrocuted at

775
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 2: the end of this film, though perhaps isn't dead, so

776
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:07,400
Speaker 2: I'm guessing she would have escaped authorities again and she

777
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,840
Speaker 2: would have come back after the Darra family, the Dara

778
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,240
Speaker 2: family again being the family of the inventor who creates

779
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 2: giant robots.

780
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 3: So the version of this that I saw had Italian

781
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: inner titles, and there was there were a lot that

782
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 3: I went by, and I did not have time to

783
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 3: translate them, so I don't know what they said. But

784
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: there was one I recognized multiple times, which was where

785
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,480
Speaker 3: it just said corto cercuto.

786
00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:38,439
Speaker 2: And short short circuit. Oh there you go. Yeah. Now,

787
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: as we've alluded to already, this was for a long

788
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,359
Speaker 2: time a lost film, and today we do not have

789
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: all of it. You know, this is another sad fact

790
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 2: about film from this period is that they are not

791
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: always complete if they did survive, and in many cases

792
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 2: we've lost everything. There are some really notoriously lost or

793
00:42:56,880 --> 00:43:01,959
Speaker 2: partially lost films, probably the the the gold standard being

794
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: Todd Browning's nineteen twenty seven horror film London After Midnight,

795
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: which starred Lawn Cheney. I feel like, even though you

796
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: know you haven't seen it, you've seen images from it.

797
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: You've seen those stills of lawn Cheney and this brilliant,

798
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: you know, frightening get up is this kind of ghoulish

799
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: vampire in a tall hat.

800
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. We talked about this, I know, in our Invention

801
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 3: episodes about the early days of film, Like I think

802
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 3: when we were discussing Ali Ski Blachet, we talked about

803
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 3: how a huge number of her films are lost.

804
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's crazy to think about this, especially with

805
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: films like London After Midnight, because this was a film

806
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 2: that grossed over a million dollars in nineteen twenty seven.

807
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 2: But you know, the last known copy of it was

808
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 2: destroyed in a nineteen sixty five MGM vault fire. So

809
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,600
Speaker 2: the only thing that survives today are our images from it.

810
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 2: And we do have a lot of images from London

811
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: after Midnight, but that's what some people have used to

812
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: reconstruct the film in its entirety, just making remaking the

813
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 2: film with still images. Now It's a similar case with

814
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: the Mechanical Man, except we were not able to We

815
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 2: were able to bring back some of it. So the

816
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 2: original film is thought to have been sixty to eighty

817
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 2: minutes in length, but it was a thought completely lost

818
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 2: for many years until reels from the Portuguese version turned

819
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,399
Speaker 2: up in Brazil, and this amounts to about twenty six

820
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 2: minutes of film total. And luckily it's footage from the

821
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 2: later portions of the film. Because it's a giant robot movie.

822
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 2: You know how giant robot movies go, They're going to

823
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 2: really have most of the special effects in the back end.

824
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 2: It's kind of like if RoboCop two were a lost

825
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 2: film and you got to reclaim half of it, which

826
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 2: half would you get? Which half would you want? You

827
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: would want the later half in which the robots battle

828
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 2: each other.

829
00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 3: I guess then you would miss most of that stuff

830
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 3: with like the twelve year old drug dealer hitman or whatever.

831
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 2: Right, you would lose a lot of interesting stuff, and

832
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 2: more of the point, you would lose stuff that helps

833
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 2: you make sense of the later stuff. And certainly that's

834
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: one of the cases with the Mechanical Man, watching the

835
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: fragments that remain. It's very interesting. The robots are fabulous looking.

836
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: They're these oh man, they're like they they're you know,

837
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 2: they're obviously costumes, but they have this cool mechanical like

838
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 2: steam punk kind of look to them, or I guess

839
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 2: it would be diesel punk, and you know, they're they're

840
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,799
Speaker 2: sort of mean faced and violent and oh it's They're

841
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 2: just fabulous, but you're often confused as to what's going on.

842
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 2: You know, I had to I had to look back

843
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 2: at It's some ride ups to really make sense of

844
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 2: what was happening and how this would have featured, how

845
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: this would have factored into the full version of the film.

846
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 3: Well, with those limitations in mind, would you like to

847
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: talk about the plot?

848
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, such as it is. This is the plot. Basically,

849
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 2: a Professor Diara creates a super fast, super strong, remote

850
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: control robot that is going to help out humanity, but

851
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: then enter the criminal mastermind Madow. She has the scientist

852
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 2: killed and tries to steal the plans for the mechanical

853
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: man the criminals. She and the criminals are caught, but

854
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: she escapes again by setting the infirmary on fire, kidnaps

855
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,720
Speaker 2: the scientist's niece, and obtains the plans, so she builds

856
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 2: her own mechanical man, goes on a rampage with it.

857
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 2: Just sort of like I don't know that there was

858
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: any like grand criminal plan. It was just sort of

859
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: like crime in general, Like, Wow, now that I have

860
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 2: the robot, I can do crime, more crime and faster

861
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 2: crime than ever before. So that's what happens. But the

862
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: scientist's brother, who survives, uses the original mechanical man to

863
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 2: stop her, so it all culminates in a big robot

864
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 2: battle inside an opera house that ultimately destroys the opera house.

865
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 3: Yes, now, I was making a few notes as I

866
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,760
Speaker 3: was watching this. One is that I really liked Madow's

867
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: escape from prison or the hospital or wherever she is

868
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: because it's a multi stage procedure where she injects something

869
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,720
Speaker 3: and fakes out the orderlies and then starts a fire

870
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 3: and then gets out. It's it's it's a good sequence.

871
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 3: But beyond that, as I was saying earlier, you know,

872
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 3: I tried my best, but there were some scenes where

873
00:47:15,239 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: I had no idea what's going on on screen. So

874
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 3: the main thing I wanted to ask about is what's

875
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: going on with the dude? Possibly the director frantically bouncing

876
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 3: on the armchair. Could you tell?

877
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,040
Speaker 2: I could not tell this was This was a scene that,

878
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 2: again I'd have to chalk up to maybe being just

879
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 2: a wink for the audience that involves like a beloved

880
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 2: comic actor who also directed the film, kind of a cameo.

881
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: Maybe that means nothing to modern viewers.

882
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,479
Speaker 3: It's the it's the nineteen twenty one version of Jim

883
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 3: Carrey going alrighty.

884
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 2: Then yeah, yeah, maybe so yeah, it would be it

885
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: would be like if if Jim Carrey directed a robot

886
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 2: movie but also showed up and did one of his

887
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,319
Speaker 2: old bits just in the middle of it, you know. Yeah.

888
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: But the other thing about you know, confusing moments in

889
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 2: this film, you know, we can chalk a lot of

890
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: it up to the fragmentary nature of what remains, but

891
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: you know, we can also point to possible shortfalls in

892
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 2: the state of the medium at the time, or even

893
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: filmmaker capability, because ultimately, Deed would not will not be

894
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 2: the last film director to craft an incoherent action picture

895
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: or to struggle transitioning from short form laughs to longer

896
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 2: form dramatic storytelling. So I don't know, it's hard to

897
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: tell exactly where all the blame levels out.

898
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's some of that disconnect in movies that

899
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 3: we've looked at. You remember with Doctor X there was

900
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 3: this strange mixture of creepiness and comedy, and not the

901
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 3: kind of comedy that usually goes along with creepiness in

902
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:52,319
Speaker 3: movies today, a very wet, kind of slapstick, goofy, gooberree

903
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 3: comedy alongside the synthetic flesh.

904
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 2: Synthetic flesh.

905
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 3: Yes, but I will also say to give the director

906
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 3: credit here. I mean, we're dealing with a number of limitations.

907
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 3: We are dealing with time distance. This was a long

908
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 3: time ago things just you know, cinema felt different than

909
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 3: we were dealing with a language barrier. We were not

910
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 3: watching this in translation. This was in a language we

911
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 3: don't speak, and we're dealing with and like watching only

912
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 3: a fragmentary part of the second half of a silent film.

913
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,120
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of stuff getting in the way

914
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 3: of us understanding.

915
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, but I'm glad that this much of it

916
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 2: has survived because you know, especially the scenes where well, yes,

917
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 2: when the robots are battling each other, it's awesome, but

918
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: are all the scenes of robot Mischief are just excellent.

919
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, I love So. There's one part with

920
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,760
Speaker 3: a cocktail party where they're playing some kind of Marco

921
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,760
Speaker 3: Polo type game. They tie a napkin around a man's

922
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: face and they spin him around and he's chasing all

923
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 3: these women in the in the party room. And then

924
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 3: a giant mecha man just burst through the window and

925
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: is like, I am here to cause panic, and he

926
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 3: puts a dude inside a wardrobe, carries him up to

927
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 3: the roof of a castle, and I think he's gonna

928
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 3: throw him off the castle tower. Yeah, then I guess

929
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,239
Speaker 3: the guy gets away and he kind.

930
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 2: Of like falls out of it and then repels down

931
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: the tower. It's elaborate and ridiculous. Yeah. There's also the

932
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,359
Speaker 2: wonderful scene where it's like a dinner party and I

933
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 2: had to I had to rely on Sterling's right up

934
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 2: and wired to make sense of what was happening. But

935
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 2: I mean fully happening, because apparently the idea is the

936
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: robot has shown up controlled by Mattow at this at

937
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 2: this party, and it's but it's pretending to be a

938
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: person in a robot costume. Yes, yeah, and so they're

939
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 2: all like, oh, it's a wonderful, wonderful costume. Come on

940
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:53,320
Speaker 2: in and have some champagne. And so it's like calling

941
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 2: for champagne and having a lady set on its lap.

942
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 2: And then things get out of hand.

943
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: Yes, the robot sexually harasses a female partygoer, and then

944
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 3: the woman's husband gets mad at the robot and punches it,

945
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 3: and then he he pulls out a pistol to duel

946
00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: the robot, and the robot crushes him.

947
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. There there's more than one scene in which somebody

948
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: pulls out a pistol and fires a bunch of shots

949
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: point blank into the robot to no avail, and then

950
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:22,439
Speaker 2: the robot just like swats them.

951
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: So there's chaos at the opera. But then in the

952
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 3: midst of all this, you end up with a mecha

953
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 3: man versus mechamn because there's I think, as you already

954
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,839
Speaker 3: said this, but the dead scientist's brother makes his own

955
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 3: mecha man and or.

956
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: He uses the original I think to battle the new

957
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,440
Speaker 2: one that the that the criminals have made. Oh, either way,

958
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,800
Speaker 2: you end up in the same place, good robot versus

959
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: bad robot. You know, a time tested formula.

960
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 3: Right, but they're having to be controlled like Mattow is

961
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,080
Speaker 3: actively controlling the robot in real time by like, by

962
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 3: like turning wheels and stud operating steam vents and things.

963
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 3: This is going to get a very score on intuitive controls.

964
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 3: But the other thing that I thought was interesting was

965
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 3: as Madow controls her mechaman during the duel. Unless I'm misunderstanding,

966
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 3: it looks like she's watching the duel live on some

967
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 3: kind of TV screen as she controls her robot fighter.

968
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 3: And this was in nineteen twenty one. There's no such

969
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:23,080
Speaker 3: thing as CCTV at this time.

970
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, this was a complete glimpse into the future.

971
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 2: Sterling wrote that at the twenty two minute twenty nine

972
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 2: second mark quote Mattow watches the mechanisms battling through a

973
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: flat wall mounted remote surveillance televisor screen. So I mean,

974
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,200
Speaker 2: that's awesome. I mean, this is a great This is

975
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 2: a great example of early science fiction and that it

976
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 2: gets something phenomenally right, while also you know, it maybe

977
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 2: doesn't properly predict the way that controls will work in

978
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,839
Speaker 2: the future. For things like this, you know, it's a

979
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 2: wonderful mashup of actually pretty spot on digital technology to come.

980
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 2: And then also a reliance on very mechanical control systems.

981
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 3: Another thing that's interesting is that the screen she's watching

982
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 3: things play out on is not from the point of

983
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 3: view of the robot, right, So what's sending the image?

984
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it would have to be like a robotic drone

985
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: that is also part of the operation that is not

986
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: presented in the film. I don't know, something of that nature. Yeah,

987
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 2: or maybe it's a telescope. I mean, there's so many

988
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 2: different directions you could go in and then ultimately, you know,

989
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: given the nature of the film, I guess they don't

990
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 2: really have to explain it. They just But it's interesting

991
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,360
Speaker 2: too that they didn't explain it. There's so many films

992
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 2: I can think of where the film is that it

993
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 2: it pains to really elaborate and describe to the audience

994
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,239
Speaker 2: what sort of technology is being used and how it

995
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:48,680
Speaker 2: works and what the rules are. And yet this film

996
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: is rolling out, you know, to your point CCTV on

997
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,040
Speaker 2: a flat screen and they don't seem to have to

998
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:57,439
Speaker 2: explain it at all, unless it's explained in the lost

999
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: portion of the film of course.

1000
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 3: Well it's funny because it's an that is it's immediately

1001
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 3: apparent what you know, what its function is like.

1002
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 2: You, Yeah, it probably comes back to the video drone quote, right. Yeah,

1003
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 2: she is doing what you were doing right now and

1004
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 2: watching the screen. So in a way, it's kind of brilliant.

1005
00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 3: Yeah. The televisor screen is the retina of the mind's eye.

1006
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 3: Whatever robots appear on it emerges raw experience.

1007
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,960
Speaker 2: Let's the other things to mention about this film. I

1008
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,440
Speaker 2: would say that the special effects are pretty cool. There's,

1009
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 2: you know, in addition to robots like breaking through gates

1010
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,720
Speaker 2: and pulling out safes and whatnot, there's a scene where

1011
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,120
Speaker 2: a speeding robot chases after I believe it's a car

1012
00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: and tears you know. So it's it's it creates this

1013
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: this wonderful illusion that you don't you don't instantly think

1014
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: of as being even possible at the time in filmmaking,

1015
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: and yet they're they're pulling it off. Yeah, and then

1016
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 2: I think the other thing that was surprising about this is,

1017
00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:55,520
Speaker 2: on one hand, you just don't expect to see a

1018
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 2: giant robot battle in a film from the nineteen twenties.

1019
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 2: But fiction has basically been around, had been around for

1020
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 2: decades at this point, with such titles as The steam Man,

1021
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 2: of the Prairies by Edward s Ellis from eighteen sixty

1022
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 2: eight or Jules Verns The Steamhouse from eighteen eighty. So

1023
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:17,920
Speaker 2: again it's just neat and worth remembering that people in

1024
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 2: the nineteen twenties were also really into cool sci fi concepts,

1025
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,839
Speaker 2: many of which still enthrall us today, and you know,

1026
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 2: are still going to always keep making them. We're not

1027
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 2: going to stop making giant robot battle movies. There's just

1028
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: something about them that is wonderful. You know, there's the

1029
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 2: idea of you know, the small made large of things

1030
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: that are echoes of the human form or animal form

1031
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 2: and mechanical construction battling each other. And then also we

1032
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: have to consider that this film came out after World

1033
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: War One, and that Deed himself was apparently witnessed to

1034
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: the European conflict, perhaps directly.

1035
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 3: So.

1036
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 2: Despite the fact that this is totally not a serious film,

1037
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,840
Speaker 2: that it has a very farcical fee to it, it

1038
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 2: still may have something to say, no matter how shallow,

1039
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 2: about the new age of warfare in which machines like

1040
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 2: tanks and warplanes have just utterly changed the landscape of war.

1041
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 3: I think it was around the same time that we

1042
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 3: talked on Invention about remote controlled robots as something that

1043
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,959
Speaker 3: people were claiming to have invented at this time, whether

1044
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 3: or not they were actually very effective. Yeah, I don't

1045
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 3: recall the details on that, Yeah.

1046
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 2: But certainly it's something that is an idea that's been

1047
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 2: knocking around the human imagination for quite some time. So

1048
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, it shouldn't come as surprised to see it

1049
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 2: in the nineteen twenties. But I guess on some level,

1050
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 2: I feel like I have been kind of reprogrammed to

1051
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 2: think of the nineteen fifties as the birth period of

1052
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 2: the sci fi robot, you know, because maybe in part

1053
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 2: because of there being a lot of images from that

1054
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 2: time period. And you know, if you had to, like,

1055
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 2: if you were to quiz me before this and say,

1056
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,000
Speaker 2: when was the first Sci Fi robot? Might just instantly

1057
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 2: think to the fifties, even though there are definitely examples

1058
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,919
Speaker 2: from a prior to that decade. And you know, here

1059
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,480
Speaker 2: is one of the prime ones right here.

1060
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 3: By the way, I think that thing I was just

1061
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 3: talking about is in our episodes of Invention on the

1062
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 3: Death Ray if you want to warn Oh, okay, but yes,

1063
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: I agree with you on all of that. About fiction.

1064
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:20,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it's gonna be robot jocks forever.

1065
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we just we just keep doing it and

1066
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: I will keep watching them apparently no matter what era

1067
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: they're from. All Right, Well, I hope this was a

1068
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 2: lot of fun for everybody. Maybe we introduced you to

1069
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 2: a couple of new silent shorts that you weren't familiar with.

1070
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 2: Maybe you did know of these films already and would

1071
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 2: like to share your take on them. Certainly, go out

1072
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 2: watch them and let us know. Also, let us know

1073
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 2: if you like this kind of format, because obviously there

1074
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: are a lot of short films out there. It might

1075
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Speaker 2: be kind of neat to do this from time to time,

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Speaker 2: Like maybe you know, to come back to Cronenberg, maybe

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Speaker 2: we do one where we look at a couple of

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Speaker 2: short films, early films from David Cronenberg, crack those open,

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Speaker 2: you know, tackling things that you know otherwise wouldn't make

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Speaker 2: for a full episode of Weird House.

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Speaker 3: I don't know about that one in particular, but in general,

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Speaker 3: I'm game.

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Speaker 2: Let's see. So yes, Weird House Cinema. If you want

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Speaker 2: to catch other episodes, this airs every Friday in the

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Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow your Mind Feed It is a place

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Speaker 2: for us to step away from the science for a

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Speaker 2: little bit and talk more about just a weird movie,

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Speaker 2: or in this case, movies. But as you can see,

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Speaker 2: we often find ways to tie it into other pieces

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Speaker 2: of content that we've put out. And oh yeah, and

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Speaker 2: of course we'll be back next week. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to tell you what the film is going to be,

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Speaker 2: but I will say it is another Florida movie, So

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Speaker 2: be prepared.

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Speaker 3: Cueue up that Lion King song. Huge Things. As always

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Speaker 3: to our wonderful audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you

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Speaker 3: would like to get in touch with us with feedback

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00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 3: on this episode or any other, to suggest a topic

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Speaker 3: for the future, or just to say hello, you can

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Speaker 3: email us at contact at stuff to Blow your Mind

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Speaker 3: dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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00:59:12,280 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.