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Speaker 1: The introduction of European crops was a natural step in

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Speaker 1: the conquest of America, and wheat was one of the

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Speaker 1: first foods introduced into Mexico. And where there is wheat,

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Speaker 1: there is to This episode is all about tortas. My

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Speaker 1: name is Eva Longoria and I am and welcome to

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Speaker 1: Hungry for History, a podcast that explores our past and

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Speaker 1: present through food. On every episode, we'll talk about the

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Speaker 1: history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages.

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Speaker 1: So make yourself at home. Rachel, Mexican sandwiches take the

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Speaker 1: sandwich game to a whole other level. And look, let's

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Speaker 1: dive in, let's dissect. Okay, wheat is not native to

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Speaker 1: meso America. It's not endemic to messo America. No, no,

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Speaker 1: it's not. Jeffrey Pilcher, he's a food history and who's amazing.

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Speaker 1: He wrote this book called Food and the Making of

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Speaker 1: Mexican Identity, and he goes into wheat. You know, in Spain,

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Speaker 1: Iberian people had been cultivating we using methods developed in

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Speaker 1: Syria and Egypt for millennia before they were in Mexico.

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Speaker 1: And when Spain was part of the Roman Empire, they

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Speaker 1: valued white bread, so much that they added chock to

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Speaker 1: it to achieve purity. What I know, it's just so bizarre.

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Speaker 1: And during the reconquest of fourteen ninety two we took

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Speaker 1: on a prearticular religious significance. Right it became, you know,

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Speaker 1: the only grain suitable for the eucharistic wafer. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was already being used for that, but it just

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Speaker 1: took on a very religious significance during this period. So

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Speaker 1: it was very important to the Spaniards to who had

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Speaker 1: migrated to America to the colonizer, and also Ferdinand and Isabella,

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Speaker 1: the Catholic monarch, so who were in charge of this

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Speaker 1: reconquest beginning in fifteen oh four. They had a bunch

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Speaker 1: of policies to foment work production. They allowed shepherds to

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Speaker 1: run their animals through fields, through wheat fields, and cut

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Speaker 1: down forests to provide pasture. So they were sort of

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Speaker 1: rethinking agriculture, and this resulted in famine and hunger. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so a lot of these conquistadors remember this, Some of

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Speaker 1: them have been through hunger in Spain. What are they

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Speaker 1: going to do in this new land? So let's bring

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Speaker 1: this wheat, which I find super interesting that aspect of

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Speaker 1: wheat that we didn't really talk about when we talked

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Speaker 1: when we did our corn and flower episode. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: didn't talk about that because I didn't really Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was like where where did wheat come from? Anyway? And

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Speaker 1: then and then like how did it end up in France?

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Speaker 1: And like all the other bread staples of Europe. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we could do a whole bread breads around the world.

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Speaker 1: Of all the products that were brought to Mexico during

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Speaker 1: the conquest, the one that symbolized European culture and sustenance

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Speaker 1: was wheat, right, and so this wheat farm served as

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Speaker 1: a foundation for Spanish user patient of native lands in

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Speaker 1: central Mexico. We think, we're not one hundred percent sure.

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Speaker 1: But Juangari, though he was an African who was a

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Speaker 1: member of Ernan Cortes's expedition, was said to have found

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Speaker 1: three grains of wheat in a bag of rice, and

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Speaker 1: he planted them and became the first person to cultivate

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Speaker 1: wheat in America. So this guy, Juangario was given property

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Speaker 1: in fifteen twenty two for in exchange for his service,

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Speaker 1: and he became a farmer by fifteen twenty four. A

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Speaker 1: message that at Nan Cortez sent to Charles. The fifth

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Speaker 1: mentions cultivation of wheat in Carya Gan you know, Mexico City,

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Speaker 1: and that's when bread became a big part of the

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Speaker 1: of the culture clash of the two different worlds because

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Speaker 1: you again, because of the religious history of the Communion wafer,

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Speaker 1: Spanish missionaries really preached the goodness of wheat as part

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Speaker 1: of their like message that it was religious necessity and

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Speaker 1: that wasn't bread. Isn't a food that you know, the

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Speaker 1: indigenous people ate, you know, and so they found the

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Speaker 1: taste kind of bland, and they preferred their corn, which

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Speaker 1: I agreed to, I prefer corn to wheat. But they

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Speaker 1: were forced to eat it. They were forced to eat it,

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Speaker 1: and they said that it tasted like famine food. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was like a horrible Yeah, they didn't they were,

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Speaker 1: but they were forced to eat it. And it was

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Speaker 1: one of the ultimate you know, f you were to

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Speaker 1: plant the wheat where your corners, and we're gonna make

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Speaker 1: you eat this. By fifteen eighty seven, Puebla had become

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Speaker 1: the granary of New Spain and they were shipping sending

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Speaker 1: regular shipments of wheat to the ports of Vera Cruz,

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Speaker 1: to Yucatan, and as far as the Caribbean, so you

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Speaker 1: know it took off. It took off, but it didn't

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Speaker 1: take off naturally. They were forced to incorporate wheat into

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Speaker 1: the diet. What are some of the colonial breads that

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Speaker 1: this would be, Oh, Claudia, Claudia would hate these colonial breads.

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Speaker 1: A bun especial, which was made with refined flour Florida Arena.

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Speaker 1: It was soft, white, expensive and by the end of

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Speaker 1: the seventeen hundreds only two bakeries made bun especial and

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Speaker 1: they were really made for religious higher ups. Now yep,

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Speaker 1: and this part doesn't exist anymore. I must say fun

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Speaker 1: especial no longer, no longer. Another colonial bread was spun floriado,

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Speaker 1: which was the second best in quality and it was

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Speaker 1: also made with high quality flour. It was shaped into

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Speaker 1: round buns. That also no longer exists. Oh, doesn't exist. Buncommune,

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Speaker 1: which is similar to bolios. That's that's that exists. They're

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Speaker 1: sold everywhere. So the common bread buncommun the common bread

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Speaker 1: is that sold everywhere, that survived, that survived. Bambajo with

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Speaker 1: an X became bambaso, which was a bread made with

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Speaker 1: leftover and discarded ingredients including weevil riddled flour. Um. It

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Speaker 1: came from the words bun bajo because it was a

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Speaker 1: bread for the poor. Um. So this exists in Veracrus.

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Speaker 1: It's filled with beans and mayo and ham and chicken

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Speaker 1: torrisa lettuce Mexico City. It's a street food and it's

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Speaker 1: stuffed with potatoes and torriso and drenched in chile wahilo sauce.

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Speaker 1: So this is from the colonial bambajo with an exe

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Speaker 1: that was reserved for the for the poor. So the

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Speaker 1: lower class bread there. Class breads are basically yeah. And

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Speaker 1: then this one, the a semita is another bread that survived.

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Speaker 1: That's a reference to a popular bread made in medieval

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Speaker 1: Spain by the Sephardic Jews that live there. And it's

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Speaker 1: sort of a crunchy bread that's topped with sesame seeds

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Speaker 1: and a mixt of flowers. And now there's a semita

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Speaker 1: uses that particular bread that survives as well. So under

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Speaker 1: Mexico's French occupation in the nineteenth century, after that, the

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Speaker 1: country was inundated with bakeries and that again that's where

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Speaker 1: we get the bread in Halisco to make torta rada

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Speaker 1: because that was a French, a French baker that taught

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Speaker 1: them how to do that. So most of the bakeries

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Speaker 1: were Spanish or French owned. They were owned by French

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Speaker 1: and Spanish, but ninety percent of the bakers that worked

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Speaker 1: there were native artisans who developed innovative, unique pastries based

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Speaker 1: on European trends, but really, you know, with their native

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Speaker 1: dna um. And I think that's why we see, you know,

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Speaker 1: some of these breads having like a hybrid of what

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Speaker 1: it is. Don't go anywhere hungry for history, We'll be

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Speaker 1: right back. Do you make? It's so funny because I'm

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Speaker 1: not a bread eater, but I like to bake bread.

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Speaker 1: During the pandemic, I was a croissant maker because that

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Speaker 1: takes like three days to make one croissant, and so

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Speaker 1: I that was my jam during the pandemic. But I

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Speaker 1: like I do. I'd like to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: bake that. The bread for the tortas in Jali school,

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Speaker 1: that would be very interesting to try to recreate that.

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Speaker 1: We should go to Jalisco and do a tort or class.

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Speaker 1: That would be amazing. We should, we should do it.

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Speaker 1: I took a class, actually a bunch of classes with

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Speaker 1: Elisa Lada, who we had on u Bandul episode early on,

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Speaker 1: and I took up Boli class. It was during the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: It was a virtual class. I couldn't believe, like at

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Speaker 1: the end of class, I had perfect bread to make

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Speaker 1: like it was just it was amazing. I was just

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City a couple of weeks ago and my

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Speaker 1: mom is from there, and she was like, bring back

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Speaker 1: boli jos. It was like, I fee like bring back balios.

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Speaker 1: She's like, bring back baliyas. It's not the same. So

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Speaker 1: I have a bunch of from Mexico City in my

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Speaker 1: freezer for when she comes to visit, so that we

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Speaker 1: could have bliyos. Well. This is why I love our

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Speaker 1: podcast is because we like to weave in how history

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Speaker 1: made food evolve and for the for the torta in particular,

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Speaker 1: after Mexican independence in a eighteen twenty one, the country

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Speaker 1: was searching for a new identity and the torta was

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Speaker 1: born out of that revolution and the way bread was

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Speaker 1: really understood in Mexico, and so I love that. According

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Speaker 1: to historian Jeffrey Pilcher, that there was a street taco

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Speaker 1: vendor that would make street tacos, and he just had

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Speaker 1: the idea of using bread instead instead of a torthea

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City. And that's kind of the first time

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Speaker 1: that the torta appears right. It was in this newspaper

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Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty four. And then by the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: it was no longer tortilla versus bread, like we didn't

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Speaker 1: have to choose, like the colonists made us right, Like

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Speaker 1: the colonists were like, no more tetilla, you must eat bread.

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Speaker 1: Now in the nineteenth century it was tortilla and bread,

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Speaker 1: and that was like, finally the harmony had settled in

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Speaker 1: into Mexico. Have the choice, it was changed. We have

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Speaker 1: the choice. We have the choice. Do you want your

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Speaker 1: pork with a torthia or do you want your pork

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Speaker 1: on a sandwich? Exactly, you have the choice. And in

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Speaker 1: eighteen ninety two, a man named Armando Martinez Centurion opened

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Speaker 1: the first torteia in downtown Mexico City, and his tortas

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Speaker 1: were considered a Baroque creation, and they were referred to

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Speaker 1: as La las tortu Santo the tortez of the Holy Spirit,

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Speaker 1: because they were so delicious. Um he sold tortas with

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Speaker 1: chicken with pork with milanesa with sardines, which I don't

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Speaker 1: know about that, but they had avocado and lettuce and

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Speaker 1: chile chipotle fresco, and it was such a popular tortia.

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Speaker 1: The people, like the after cantine Flas used to visit

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Speaker 1: musician I was in Lada, like it was super popular

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Speaker 1: and he always accompanied the tortas that he sold with

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Speaker 1: an orange, pineapple and lime wafresca. UM. So this was

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Speaker 1: the first torteia. But then we have regional of the variations.

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Speaker 1: You know, all over the country. You have the Tortasauga

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Speaker 1: that's that you mentioned from Jalisco. We mentioned briefly the

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Speaker 1: semitas from Puebla that has string cheese and milanesa um.

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Speaker 1: But every region has a different torta. But it's basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's an interesting use. Sandwich is the bolio

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Speaker 1: the only one, the only bread used for they're different breads,

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Speaker 1: they're different breads, but the most common breads for tortas

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Speaker 1: or the andra, and they're basically a similar type of bread.

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Speaker 1: The bolio is a little rounder um sort of oval

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Speaker 1: and a little just sort of more you know, chubby.

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Speaker 1: It's crunchy on the outside and soft and spongee on

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Speaker 1: the inside. Um. And then the the leta is a

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Speaker 1: similar dough, but it's flat um, so it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit flat. It's oval that has these two incisions on top.

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Speaker 1: But these are the two most popular ones. The lettras

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Speaker 1: sometimes used in place of the tortilla um, but it's

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Speaker 1: essentially the same thing that the lera. As origin comes

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Speaker 1: from an inferior wheat bread consumed by Andalusian workers in Spain,

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Speaker 1: so the recipe was modified in Mexico, but it's essentially

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Speaker 1: the same dough used for the for the rolillo's just

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Speaker 1: a different shape. Yeah. Well, the bot is my favorite.

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Speaker 1: I've never never had one. I've never had that is

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Speaker 1: life changing. That will say, yeah, it's French influence, but

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Speaker 1: it's much. It was perfected in Gua Lacara because it

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Speaker 1: has a crispy outside that endures the salsa the drowning

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Speaker 1: of and a soft baguette inside that lets the meat

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Speaker 1: and pork lay beautifully on it. It's the perfect bread.

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Speaker 1: So for me, I love. Let me ask you a

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Speaker 1: question about have you had it anywhere outside of No?

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Speaker 1: Just because I can't, you can't go. There are a

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Speaker 1: bunch of place possible. You can't because of the bread

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Speaker 1: is not the same, right, you can't bread that cannot

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Speaker 1: You can't recreate the bread because of the altitude and

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Speaker 1: the water and the soil, like it's a whole thing

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Speaker 1: with the so it. People have tried, they believe me,

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Speaker 1: everybody has tried to replicate it outside of Jalisco and

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Speaker 1: it's impossible, you know, like they can't get it right, Okay,

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Speaker 1: because I know there are a bunch of places in

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Speaker 1: La that have I haven't tried, but I wonder I

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Speaker 1: have to try. But I feel like I have to

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Speaker 1: go to Jalisco and taste the original, and then I

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Speaker 1: can and then I can have a bar of reference.

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Speaker 1: Do you know the beetle thing is named after was

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Speaker 1: named after Camille Beatlet, a Belgian baker for the French

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Speaker 1: army and la under Emper Maximlian. Yep, it's so cool.

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Speaker 1: So the bread is a little bit more acidic. It's

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Speaker 1: a little more sour than um than a traditional sour dough.

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Speaker 1: Is the is the sauce that goes on? Is it

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Speaker 1: like a spicy sauce? Is it like a tomato? That's

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Speaker 1: the thing that's the interesting thing. It's obviously tomato chili base.

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Speaker 1: It's red, but you you can the sauce. They pour

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Speaker 1: the sauce on it, and then they go, do you

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Speaker 1: want spicy? And you say yeah, And there's a different

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Speaker 1: red sauce that they put on top of that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So the sauce that goes on is actually a sweet sauce,

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Speaker 1: considerably less spicy. It's made of tomatoes and chiles. You

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Speaker 1: can have media algada, which is half drowned, or biann algada,

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Speaker 1: which is well drowned. So do you eat it with

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Speaker 1: your hands? Yes, and a fork in? And I like

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Speaker 1: it all falls apart. That sounds so good. I want.

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Speaker 1: It's usually made of portarnitas, that's what this. It's usually

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Speaker 1: made of pork, pork garnitas with the pickled the pickled

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Speaker 1: red onions. Okay, oh my god, that sounds delicious. I'm hungry.

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Speaker 1: I love that. The beetlete is basically a Mexican baggett.

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Speaker 1: That's what they call it. Yeah, Mexican baggett, but with chile.

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Speaker 1: So it's so not with a chila sauce. It's so

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Speaker 1: not a baggette. When we come back. Brian Ford, an

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Speaker 1: award winning bread baker with Hondura Roots is joining the

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Speaker 1: show from his kitchen, and he's got a new cookbook

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Speaker 1: called New World Baking that is set for release later

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Speaker 1: this year in October. You can pre order that now

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Speaker 1: and guess what. Brian's sharing his thoughts on thorpas Welcome

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Speaker 1: back everyone. I had a chance to hang out with

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Speaker 1: Brian Ford for his new show he's working on with

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Speaker 1: Shonda Land and iHeartRadio. It's a podcast called Flaky Biscuit

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Speaker 1: and it launches on April eleventh. Here he is sharing

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Speaker 1: his thoughts on My name is Brian Ford. I'm a baker,

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Speaker 1: author and TV host, and I'm working on a really

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Speaker 1: amazing new podcast on Flaky Biscuit. We welcome our guests

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Speaker 1: onto the show and I cook their most nostalgic meal,

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Speaker 1: I mean, and it could be anything from apple pie

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Speaker 1: from the gas station or vending machine, or it could

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Speaker 1: be their grandmother's most signature dish. Whatever it is. Whatever

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Speaker 1: that nostalgic meal is, I'm going to try to recreate

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Speaker 1: it for them to enable us to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about whether or not I delivered what's called the Proust effect,

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Speaker 1: where food is a vehicle for these nostalgic memories. That's

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Speaker 1: flaky biscuit, and I'm super excited about it. I don't

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Speaker 1: really eat tortas often, um, and the reasoning behind that

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Speaker 1: is because if I'm gonna eat, it has to be

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Speaker 1: a really, really great torta. I'm very particular about it.

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Speaker 1: I live in New York City, so there are definitely

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Speaker 1: lots of great tortas there. And my favorite type of

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Speaker 1: torta is the tort I mean, it's absolutely a phenomenal torta.

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Speaker 1: It is, uh, you know, Karmita's stuff into a freshly

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Speaker 1: baked beatote bread, which is a sour dough bread made

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Speaker 1: specifically in Wadalajara, and this torta is then drowned in

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Speaker 1: two different types of salsa, and one of them is

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Speaker 1: very spicy. And of course we've got some red onions

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Speaker 1: that kind of go on there as well, pickled red onions,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe even a little bit of a crumble cheese.

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Speaker 1: I really recommend everyone try. I think that the soul

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Speaker 1: of the torta at the end of the day, the

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Speaker 1: core of a torta is Mexican cooking and the flavors, spices,

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Speaker 1: and ingredients that are associated with Mexican cuisine. If you

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Speaker 1: really think about what a torta is at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, you know, is it a sandwich? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's bread with filling. But to simplify it torta and

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Speaker 1: call it a sand which is not really doing it

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Speaker 1: justice because of how unique these fillings and flavors and

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Speaker 1: textures and ingredients really are. I mean, when you're eating

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Speaker 1: a torta, you're gonna know distinctly that you're eating something

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Speaker 1: with that Mexican soul in it. And you know, there's

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Speaker 1: so many different types. You got to get the bread right,

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Speaker 1: of course, you know, you've got to get the meat right,

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Speaker 1: and the way the meat is prepared is very important.

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Speaker 1: So I think the soul of the at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day comes from the techniques and traditions from

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Speaker 1: the cooks of Mexico. There's one torta restaurant right near

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Speaker 1: our house in Mexico City, and we walk to it

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Speaker 1: a lot, and it's it's one of Peppa's favorites. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Peppa loves tortas. We don't make them at home, but

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Speaker 1: he loves he loves tortas. I make tortas when I

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Speaker 1: go to my Mexican markets. I'll always buy the letras

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Speaker 1: and I'll just put like a little schmir of black beans, hams,

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Speaker 1: some cheese and cheap or plant avocado and that's it.

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Speaker 1: And I love them. Beppo was saying, he just said,

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City, it's called Torta's Royalty. That's the place

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Speaker 1: to go in Mexico City. All right, that's the place

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Speaker 1: to go in Mexico City. Well, I think of anybody,

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Speaker 1: anybody listening in the La area, let us know where

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Speaker 1: the best tortas are, because I'm I'm game. I'm game

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Speaker 1: to have my mind convinced that it's more than a sandwich.

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Speaker 1: It's a it's a special sense, it's a special sandwich.

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Speaker 1: It's a sandwich on steroids. I do love, I do love.

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Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for listening to our Torta episode. If you

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Speaker 1: have any great recipes or places, please leave them in

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Speaker 1: the comments section below, and thank you so much for listening.

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Speaker 1: Don't forget to tune in. Next week we have an

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Speaker 1: episode all about beer. Did you know that humans have

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Speaker 1: been drinking beer for well over seven thousand years and

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Speaker 1: that the original brewers were women? For millennia, beer provided

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Speaker 1: an import source of nutrients and was a part of

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Speaker 1: the average person's diet. Making beer was a household task,

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Speaker 1: so naturally it fell into the hands of women. So

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Speaker 1: when did brewing move out of the home and become

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Speaker 1: a commercial activity associated with men. It's a good story

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Speaker 1: that involves witchcraft, so tune in next week to find out.

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Speaker 1: Hungry for History is an unbelievable entertainment production in partnership

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Speaker 1: with Ihearts my Kultura podcast network. For more of your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.