WEBVTT - Clay Travis chats with Darren Rovell 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.760 This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.880 with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 0:00:10.160 --> 0:00:21.079 Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome and Clay Travis so Wins 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.400 and lost his podcast. Special addition, we are reacting to 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:28.200 the NBA in China and we have got Darren Ravel 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.199 with us. Darren works at the at the What what 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.080 is the the Action Network? I was gonna say there's 0:00:35.120 --> 0:00:37.360 too many different companies now that had to start with 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.839 an A. He's at the Action Network. Um, and uh 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:43.279 he is? Uh he has. We've been talking. We went 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.760 back and forth on Twitter about this. People out there 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.320 who haven't been paying attention. Earlier this week, Darryl Moray, 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.960 the the general manager of the Houston Rockets, and a 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.200 tweet supportive of democracy protests in Hong Kong, which is 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.400 a semi autonomous region of China. The Chinese government flipped 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.240 out over this at the same time that basically the 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:09.400 NBA was supposed to be having a goodwill tour and 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.160 everything has fallen apart since then. We are talking now. 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.840 On Thursday afternoon, they played the first preseason game between 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.760 the Lakers and the Nets, but the but China mandated 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:25.520 that there would be no media availabilities associated with that. 0:01:25.680 --> 0:01:30.200 In the NBA acquiesced to those requirements. China also refused 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.440 to play the games in the country. You could watch 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:36.400 the game here in the United States on the NBA 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.600 UH network if you put it on early this morning. So, uh, Darren, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.319 So let's let's start here. Uh. My contention is that 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:49.160 this is a body blow of a significant magnitude to 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.680 the NBA's over overall brand, which I believe is rooted 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:56.480 in authenticity. And the authenticity that the NBA has sold, 0:01:56.600 --> 0:01:59.320 at least to a large percentage of its fan base 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:02.680 is our players are real, They say what they think. 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:07.320 We don't police their opinions on anything. And now the 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:11.640 NBA has found itself confronted with a true issue of 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.359 a substantial global nature, unlike let's say, the transgender bathroom 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.359 law in North Carolina, which led the team to abandon 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:24.000 the state of North Carolina, or something as relatively inconsequential 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:26.720 as the use of the word owner, which the NBA 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.440 replaced with governor. Do you believe and agree with me 0:02:30.480 --> 0:02:33.400 that this has been a overall very bad week for 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:36.920 the NBA. Let's let let let me just start by 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.000 going going back a little bit. Daryl Morey is the 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:44.400 GM of the Houston Rockets. He's not the GM of 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.320 the Memphis Grizzlies or another team. The reason why that's 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:53.120 important is because Killman for Tita just bought this team 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:57.040 for two point two billion dollars, and probably ten percent 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.320 of that valuation is based on the fact that through 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.720 Yao Ming, the Rockets became the most relevant team in 0:03:03.840 --> 0:03:07.359 China more than their relevance deserves, more than they deserve 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:10.519 at all. Um, And so what percent? So let me 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.440 cut you off there. What percentage of that two point 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.840 one billion dollar valuation of the Houston Rockets do you 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:22.360 think was attributable to their overall brand value in China? Uh? 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:25.840 At least ten, I would think, I would think more. 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.959 But two million dollars you think connected? Yes? Yes? And 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:34.360 if you were to tell me that, um, there's going 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.600 to be horrible relations for five years and the Houston 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.800 Rockets at least for five years with no foreseeable future 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:43.840 of returning to where they were before, I would say that, 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.960 you know, it's three hundred or five hundred million dollars off. Um, Yes, 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.040 this is a this was a Collot. This is this 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.960 was a horrible, horrible week for the NBA, So let's 0:03:57.000 --> 0:03:59.720 put that in context. But the fact that it was 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:02.720 the rockets and the fact that the guy who kicked 0:04:02.800 --> 0:04:05.960 down the door, Yao Ming, had to make a comment, 0:04:06.080 --> 0:04:10.200 he couldn't hide because he is running the Chinese Basketball Association, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:14.160 So it could not have been worse. From that standpoint, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.200 What do you think Darryl Moray was thinking? Do you 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.200 think he had any clue what he was stepping into 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:23.200 when he decided to tweet? Why do you think he 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.760 decided to do it? Okay, So I've done about a 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:30.240 hundred fifty thousand, hundred sixty thousand tweets. I don't know 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:33.360 if this is the same for you for nearly a 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.880 hundred nearly a hundred thousand of tweets, by the way, 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:41.359 for me, so so for the five absolutely horrific tweets 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.640 that I put out, there is one thing in common. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:50.080 I was not a focused. My twins were crying. I 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.680 was doing something else. I was watching something else. I 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.200 truly Daryl Morey's a smart guy. He's an m I 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.480 t he's a Northwestern guy. I mean I think that 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:06.000 in the moment, whether he was drinking or whether he 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.960 was just not a focused He knew what he was saying, 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.280 but did not did not digest the fact in the 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.600 moment for some reason. How perilous this was, be sure 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.240 to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.599 Travis week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.360 And it's interesting because we talked about this a little bit. Uh, 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:31.160 I know, we went back and forth on Twitter. I 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:34.480 believe about this the most expensive tweets that have ever 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.760 been sent. Elon Musk had his issue with the Securities 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:40.320 and Exchange Commission when he said he was going to 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:42.880 take Tesla private for four hundred and twenty dollars and 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:44.520 then later had to pay a huge fine and I 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:47.240 think give up its chairmanship or a part of the 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.160 governing structure of Tesla as a result. You had Roseanne 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:55.480 lose her show over her attack on Valerie Jarrett. You 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.560 have had Donald Trump certainly has sent tweets that have 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:02.520 either hurt the market cap or impacted the overall start market. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:08.360 A gender Kardashian correct, there was about Snapchat that wasn't 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.480 overall like basically, I think I can't remember if it 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.680 was Kylie Jenner or Kendall Jenner and Frankly, I can't 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.240 tell the difference between the two, but one of them 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:19.000 said that Snapchat is is like the new design on 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.200 Snapchat is awful, and it was a cataclysmic hit to 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:25.920 their stock. Nike obviously announces Kaepernick has a drop, then 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.040 goes back up. But the difference, I would say in 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.680 general with those is the stock market value, you know, 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:36.240 like adjust every single day, So unlike those where they 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:39.440 can bounce around with stock prices and everything else, this 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:43.040 has more of I think an impactful and potentially lingering 0:06:44.000 --> 0:06:47.839 resonance than some of those do. Would you agree? Yes? 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.760 And you know, I want to go back because I 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:52.680 want to be able to answer your question. You know, 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:58.560 you talked about authenticity now. I never I still thought 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:03.839 it was the Jordan's I wasn't tricked by their social 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:08.520 warrior status. I thought it was very much the Jordan 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:14.600 Republican Dubai shoes too. Um and I do agree that 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:20.120 it looks shallow to not engage in this when you 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.920 have issues of human rights and lack of freedom. But 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.000 you know what it's it's the truth is and they 0:07:29.040 --> 0:07:34.000 can never say this. It's not important to them. It's 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.000 not important to their lives, and that's why they can't 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:41.680 talk because and maybe that's horrible, but it's they can't. 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:45.200 They can't. They can relate to police brutality and wear 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:50.400 shirts I can't breathe, but they cannot relate to a 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.800 place that is not free and where you're persecuted and 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.920 thrown in jail for things in America that they just can't. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.000 They can't relate or they can't relate that quickly. And 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:07.040 so I think they're being honest by not saying anything. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.160 But I also do think because if they said something, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.040 if it was what you really wanted to hear, it 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.640 be really ugly. But I do think it is a 0:08:16.720 --> 0:08:20.400 shot against their authenticity. The question is what does what 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:25.080 is that worth? And I don't think it's worth that much. Okay, 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.600 I disagree. I think it's worth substantiable. Let's take away 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.280 from the individual players for a moment and let me 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.160 just say I think the NBA opened itself up to 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:36.880 this accusation of hypocrisy, and Adam Silver did as well. 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.800 And this is not something that's unique to me. I 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.440 wrote this three years ago, and it's not something that's 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.559 unique just to the NBA either. It annoys me to 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:48.800 no end when people decide to say, like I think 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:51.880 there were a couple of rock bands, for instance, that said, Hey, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.240 I'm not going to play in North Carolina because I 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.520 disagree with the transgender bathroom bill in the North Carolina 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.679 state legislature. But those same rock stars or rappers or 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.559 whoever they may be, are willing to go to all 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:09.679 sorts of kleptocracies around the world and play concerts in 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.319 those places, and they don't care at all about the 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.360 fact that they're playing in front of an audience that 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.040 doesn't have the same basic human rights that they take 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.720 for granted as Americans. I would say, you are you are? 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.400 You are believing that there should be consistency, and I 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.560 think in life there is not consistency. You know there 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.959 when when something is closer to you, even geographically, you 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:39.439 feel different about it. I would suggest that this is 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:42.480 that what I think is happening here is I never 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:46.040 bought into this woke universe of response. I thought it 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:48.319 was something that to me, if you're going to be 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.440 considered brave, and I've said this for a long time, 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:56.079 you have to risk life, liberty, or at minimum something 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.400 very dear to you, in order to be truly called brave, right, 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.520 I think that's a air definition of bravery. The NBA 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.400 and the players have not risked anything by the stances 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.560 that they have taken in the United States related to politics. 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.440 I would say that for Steve Kerr, I would say 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:15.040 that for Greg Popovich, I would say that for Lebron James, 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.200 I would say that for Adam Silver. They have gone 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:22.240 after targets that are not in the wheelhouse of their 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:25.640 existing fan base. If they are going to do that, 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:29.559 and again, I I am of the ILK that believes that. Ultimately, 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.600 if the NBA had just said all along, hey, we're 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.040 about trying to make as much money as a capitalistic 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.360 organization as is possible, then I think people like me 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.920 would not have called them out on hypocrisy. I don't 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:43.959 mind that, right. I understand what Disney is trying to 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.439 do with China. I understand what Apple is trying to 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.640 do with China. All these big multinational global brands that 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:54.280 have to somehow in order to make money off China, 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.640 acquiesced to some Chinese directives. I don't think it's smart 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:02.160 as a as a political matter, but that's for governmental relations. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:06.200 I don't really get involved with individual brands, but you're you're, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:11.439 you're basically upset with the self branding and the societal 0:11:11.559 --> 0:11:19.720 branding of the NBA players as social warriors at whatever cost. Yeah, 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.040 and well, because there is no cost to them. I 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:25.199 mean they they have, you know, been praised and and 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.200 and and gotten treated as if they are incredibly brave 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.360 for stances that they have to get required that require 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:37.040 no risk. And what happens for its icons. We we 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.400 we overestimate, you know, we we talk about how charitable 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.079 they are, and you know, and then you look behind 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:45.840 it and you see that, you know, they don't give 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:49.160 any money to their own foundations, and we prop these 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:51.520 guys up on a pedestal for everything that they do. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.319 I think there's some truth to that, but I think 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:57.760 there's a different level that the NBA received, And I 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.160 think the media was culpable here. And I do think 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.640 I'm curious if you agree with me here the NBA, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.920 the media that covers the NBA, if you compare them 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.120 in general to the media that covers the NFL, is 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:13.480 much less contentious and much more akin to a cheerleader 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.160 group than it is to a rigorous and why do 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:18.360 you think that agreed and that and that's that's that's 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:23.520 also because they've they've had practice the NFL. I think 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:29.240 the media has feels less pressure on itself because Roger 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.160 Goodell is universally hated but much. I think before this, 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:38.319 I think Adam Silver before this was you know, lauded 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.760 and loved and and seen as smart. But I think 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.840 that's because to a large extent, the people who cover 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:49.440 the NBA agree with the social causes that NBA players 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:53.160 and owners in the league has its best. No. I 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.679 think it's because they're more comfortable listen. When when you're 0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:00.560 a reporter, you have to know when to take your 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:03.560 shots and if taking your shots are worth it, taking 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:07.440 shots at Roger Goodell or the establishment of the NFL 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:11.240 or the union. It's easier to recover from taking those 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.040 shots because you have the whole world behind you. It's 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.120 chicken or egg. I mean, it's like you know you have. 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.199 It's because there has been so much negative and the 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.439 public agrees with the negative. That's what frees up NFL 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.640 reporters from being able to criticize in the way that 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:34.319 NBA reporters don't. I think that's interesting, but to me, 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:38.400 the purpose of having a free and independent media is 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.280 having media members who are brave enough not to worry 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.719 about who's lining up behind them. I can maybe I'm 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:46.559 rare in this, but I can legitimately say when I 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:50.199 do my radio show, or I do my periscope, Facebook, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.480 or I write my columns, I never think are people 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:56.679 going to agree with what I say or what I write? 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.679 I think, do I believe? But but don Clay, you 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.800 don't have to show up at the arena every day. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.520 You don't have to you don't have to show your face. 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:07.880 But but that goes to the point, that goes to 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:13.040 the point of yeah, that's what makes you you, but 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.760 it also makes you more comfortable by the virtue of 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.000 the fact that you don't have to show your face. Well, 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:21.600 but most of those most of those guys are useless. 0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:25.120 I mean this goes to a larger context of what's 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.280 the value of most people who cover a team? Not much? 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.080 I mean, right, like if you took out if you 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.200 knocked out of the people who show up for a 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.480 press conference and only allowed two percent of people to 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:40.800 ask the questions. And I've been arguing this for a 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.320 long time. The value of the press conference would be 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.360 higher because there's a huge percentage of people there that 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.560 provide actually nothing of value based on their attendance there. 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.240 So look, if if Lebron James said, Hey, I'll have 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:57.160 a sit down with you and you can ask me 0:14:57.240 --> 0:15:00.080 any question under the sun, I would do it. He 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.880 wouldn't do it because I would actually ask him questions 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:04.840 that he doesn't want to answer, I always say on 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:08.240 my radio. And he believes, and he believes as all 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.920 these NBA stars believed that they should be afforded the 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:17.680 right to pick and choose the questions. Now, now, I've 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.600 never said that they were social warriors. I never said 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:25.080 that they deserved more than I thought they deserved that society. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:29.760 That's not my problem. But yes, I mean they're they're 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:31.960 going to pick and choose because they feel like they 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:35.479 deserve the right to do that, because they've achieved basketball 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:39.040 success and they don't want anything to compromise them. Yeah. 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.120 I don't think that there's any danger to them though, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.800 is my point? Like, if Lebron James came out and 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.880 truly wanted to be the Mohammed Ali of our generation 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.680 as opposed to lazy people who haven't studied history, comparing 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.320 him to Mohammed Ali. He could say it's more profitable 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.840 to pick and choose, correct. I understand that. But if 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.080 Lebron James truly wanted to be Mohammed Ali, he could 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.520 come out and say, I believe all one point four 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:06.880 billion people in China should have the same basic human 0:16:07.000 --> 0:16:09.160 rights that we have in America, and the fact that 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.640 they don't is wrong. It's a very simple statement, but 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.000 it worth eight million dollars a year for him not 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:17.160 to say that. Okay, but he's got hundreds of millions 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:21.560 of dollars, and so Mohammad Ali risked his entire career 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.840 in order to become Muhammad Ali. I mean, he took 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.400 a stand on a contentious social issue that a lot 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.280 of people disagreed with. For all of Lebron's talk about 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.440 how brave he is and how active he is, what's 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.560 the most controversial thing that Lebron James has ever said. 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:42.000 I'm taking my talents to South Beach. It was entirely 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:46.680 a decision rooted in sports. He's never said anything remotely 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:50.040 comparable to I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.520 Com which is what Muhammad Ali said. You do have 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.880 to be fair, you do have to compare generations. So like, 0:16:58.280 --> 0:17:03.040 would Muhammad Ali be who he was if the endorsements 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.080 were dangling the way they're dangling, And that's a great question. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.399 Maybe maybe he never would have. Like Lebron is a 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:13.840 step up from Jordan's. Jordan wouldn't talk about anything, So 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.080 Lebron's a step up. He'll talk about things he's comfortable with, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:20.080 but he will talk. Jordan wasn't comfortable with talking about 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.320 Ain't Steven I would? I would disagree, And that's an 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.760 interesting argument. You can argue that Jordan was a step 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.000 Lebron's a step up from Jordans. I actually disagree. I 0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.800 think what Jordan represented was the goal of appealing to 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.800 everyone with the excellence of his talents. But he only 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:40.680 wanted for his talents in basketball to be his calling card. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.600 That is, to me different than Lebron, who I think 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:47.240 recognized that he was not going to ever reach the 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.760 six titles of Michael Jordan's or reach the elevated stature 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:55.440 worldwide of Michael Jordan's, and so about twelve or fourteen 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.520 years into his into his career, he pivoted and decided, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:03.160 I'm going to try to become a figure like Muhammad 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.000 Ali more than I'm going to be a figure like 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.480 Michael Jordan's. And as a result, they give both of 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:09.800 these guys. You can you give these guys, both of 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.520 these guys way too much credit. I don't. I don't 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.960 think they think about their brand in that way. I 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.680 think Jordan's just simply said, listened up until this point 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:25.160 in a black man wasn't speaking to white to white 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.840 people for endorsements just didn't happen. I mean, yes, there was, 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:34.760 there were small endorsements. O J. J had hurts other 0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.320 than O J. Who who who, as alleged by Black 0:18:38.359 --> 0:18:42.159 America like made himself white to do it. Um. But 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.000 but yeah, but yeah, no, and so it was enough 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.880 of a challenge to be the everyman as a black 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.720 person in five um. And and so I don't think 0:18:52.800 --> 0:18:56.200 he wanted to screw that up. Um but I don't. 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.879 But I think there's appeal there, right because Jordan. If 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.320 you wanted to kind of put Jordan in that context 0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:04.960 of becoming an everyman pitch man whose race was not 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.680 integral to his overall appeal, that was also the case 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.000 with back in that those days, Eddie Murphy, will Smith 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.879 would later take that baton Bill Cosby, certainly in The 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:18.159 Cosby Show, which was revolutionary in the sense that it 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:21.320 portrayed a black American family as not that much different 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.760 than a white American family. Right, You're trying to appeal 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:27.440 to everyone, the idea being that we, despite our differences 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:30.320 of race or gender, ethnicity, whatever else, actually have a 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.119 lot more in common than we do indifferent And I 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.480 think what Lebron has done is sliced and diced a 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.320 small segment of that population and said I'm gonna try 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.440 to fulfill and be the every man for this small group. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:45.960 And I think that you may be right that it's 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.159 not a calculated decision. I tend to think there are 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.800 tons of branding people that are sitting around with these 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:52.760 guys trying to pitch them all day long on what 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.040 they think makes sense. Um and uh. And certainly social 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:59.000 media can complicate this because you have the ability to 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.359 make decisions kind of instantaneously. Um. And The idea with 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.080 social media, and I think you would agree, is that 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.639 authenticity matters more than anything. But if Lebron is going 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.920 to sell this idea of a quality of everybody being 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:14.440 on the same level of the importance of speaking truth 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.000 to power. That's kind of his brand now, right. He 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.560 certainly has basically just done what he said he would 0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:24.200 never do, which is shut up in dribble for money. Yeah, no, 0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:26.920 I I get it. I don't think I think, well, 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:30.040 well that makes sense. I don't think that's going to 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.119 cost him. I don't. I don't think that's going to 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.119 cost him. And the reason I said I thought Adam 0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.920 Silver had a win was, you know, I do think 0:20:39.960 --> 0:20:43.240 it was a win for for the business. And I'm 0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:45.600 not trying to say that it was the it was 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:48.760 the right move. I just do think that, you know, 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.440 I had thought that that China wanted to win, and 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:53.400 I thought they'd lock him out of the arena. Known 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:55.240 would show up. They didn't lock him out of the arena, 0:20:55.240 --> 0:20:58.000 and everyone showed up. Fox Sports Radio has the best 0:20:58.040 --> 0:21:00.879 sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our 0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:04.359 shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.560 I Heart Radio app. Search f s are to listen live. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:10.800 I think China saying you can come play, but you 0:21:10.920 --> 0:21:12.880 have to play by our rules, which means you can't 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.080 talk to the media, which means your players say nothing. 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.480 I think that's a win for China because it is 0:21:17.560 --> 0:21:20.119 I mean, really, if you break it down, what actually 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.240 happened there. China told the NBA and their teams and 0:21:23.280 --> 0:21:27.600 their biggest stars Lebron James, Adam Silver, Kyrie Irving, Anthony 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.200 Davis shut up and dribble, or you have to leave 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.240 our country and we're gonna money, and they did. I 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:35.320 think in the process of playing the game and not 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.960 walking away, I think Adam Silver felt like he had 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.440 to do what was right for business, and I think 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.680 from a business standpoint that was right. I also think 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:50.080 that you know, the people who I'm just I'm trying 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:53.159 to look at this in a non emotional way, right like, 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:55.680 just from the business standpoint, and it's hard to do 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.800 that because of what China has done to its people. 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:02.440 But um, I think that he did make the right 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:06.440 move in being able to play the actual game despite 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.040 the fact, as he said that it was not on 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:13.359 TV there. Um he did not leave. He did not 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:16.840 leave because he basically was saying, we want to play 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.240 for you, we want to be here, even if it 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:24.400 was under their terms. Um, I think that I think 0:22:24.440 --> 0:22:26.520 it was the right move from a business standpoint, and 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.200 I was told there were people who were trying to 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.399 tell him, no, we should go, we should go, and 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.680 he was absolutely insistent that they play the game. Yeah, 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.680 I disagree. I think that I think they should have gone. 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:38.400 Here here's what I would say. You asked a good question, 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:40.720 what's the impact when they come back to the United States, right, 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:42.159 because not like they're going to stay in China for 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.840 very long. Here's where I think this could be significant 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:47.880 for them. I think certainly when they start to try 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:51.280 to speak out again. Like let's say that I don't know, 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:53.600 I don't know where the next All Star Game is 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:55.159 going to be, but let's say it could happen. It 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:57.760 wouldn't be stunning, right if in the state of Georgia, 0:22:57.920 --> 0:22:59.760 Like you may know where the next NBA All Star 0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:01.520 Game is gonna be. I'm just gonna pick a state, Georgia. 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:04.800