Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks
Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business.
Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome and Clay Travis so Wins
Speaker 1: and lost his podcast. Special addition, we are reacting to
Speaker 1: the NBA in China and we have got Darren Ravel
Speaker 1: with us. Darren works at the at the What what
Speaker 1: is the the Action Network? I was gonna say there's
Speaker 1: too many different companies now that had to start with
Speaker 1: an A. He's at the Action Network. Um, and uh
Speaker 1: he is? Uh he has. We've been talking. We went
Speaker 1: back and forth on Twitter about this. People out there
Speaker 1: who haven't been paying attention. Earlier this week, Darryl Moray,
Speaker 1: the the general manager of the Houston Rockets, and a
Speaker 1: tweet supportive of democracy protests in Hong Kong, which is
Speaker 1: a semi autonomous region of China. The Chinese government flipped
Speaker 1: out over this at the same time that basically the
Speaker 1: NBA was supposed to be having a goodwill tour and
Speaker 1: everything has fallen apart since then. We are talking now.
Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, they played the first preseason game between
Speaker 1: the Lakers and the Nets, but the but China mandated
Speaker 1: that there would be no media availabilities associated with that.
Speaker 1: In the NBA acquiesced to those requirements. China also refused
Speaker 1: to play the games in the country. You could watch
Speaker 1: the game here in the United States on the NBA
Speaker 1: UH network if you put it on early this morning. So, uh, Darren,
Speaker 1: So let's let's start here. Uh. My contention is that
Speaker 1: this is a body blow of a significant magnitude to
Speaker 1: the NBA's over overall brand, which I believe is rooted
Speaker 1: in authenticity. And the authenticity that the NBA has sold,
Speaker 1: at least to a large percentage of its fan base
Speaker 1: is our players are real, They say what they think.
Speaker 1: We don't police their opinions on anything. And now the
Speaker 1: NBA has found itself confronted with a true issue of
Speaker 1: a substantial global nature, unlike let's say, the transgender bathroom
Speaker 1: law in North Carolina, which led the team to abandon
Speaker 1: the state of North Carolina, or something as relatively inconsequential
Speaker 1: as the use of the word owner, which the NBA
Speaker 1: replaced with governor. Do you believe and agree with me
Speaker 1: that this has been a overall very bad week for
Speaker 1: the NBA. Let's let let let me just start by
Speaker 1: going going back a little bit. Daryl Morey is the
Speaker 1: GM of the Houston Rockets. He's not the GM of
Speaker 1: the Memphis Grizzlies or another team. The reason why that's
Speaker 1: important is because Killman for Tita just bought this team
Speaker 1: for two point two billion dollars, and probably ten percent
Speaker 1: of that valuation is based on the fact that through
Speaker 1: Yao Ming, the Rockets became the most relevant team in
Speaker 1: China more than their relevance deserves, more than they deserve
Speaker 1: at all. Um, And so what percent? So let me
Speaker 1: cut you off there. What percentage of that two point
Speaker 1: one billion dollar valuation of the Houston Rockets do you
Speaker 1: think was attributable to their overall brand value in China? Uh?
Speaker 1: At least ten, I would think, I would think more.
Speaker 1: But two million dollars you think connected? Yes? Yes? And
Speaker 1: if you were to tell me that, um, there's going
Speaker 1: to be horrible relations for five years and the Houston
Speaker 1: Rockets at least for five years with no foreseeable future
Speaker 1: of returning to where they were before, I would say that,
Speaker 1: you know, it's three hundred or five hundred million dollars off. Um, Yes,
Speaker 1: this is a this was a Collot. This is this
Speaker 1: was a horrible, horrible week for the NBA, So let's
Speaker 1: put that in context. But the fact that it was
Speaker 1: the rockets and the fact that the guy who kicked
Speaker 1: down the door, Yao Ming, had to make a comment,
Speaker 1: he couldn't hide because he is running the Chinese Basketball Association,
Speaker 1: So it could not have been worse. From that standpoint,
Speaker 1: What do you think Darryl Moray was thinking? Do you
Speaker 1: think he had any clue what he was stepping into
Speaker 1: when he decided to tweet? Why do you think he
Speaker 1: decided to do it? Okay, So I've done about a
Speaker 1: hundred fifty thousand, hundred sixty thousand tweets. I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is the same for you for nearly a
Speaker 1: hundred nearly a hundred thousand of tweets, by the way,
Speaker 1: for me, so so for the five absolutely horrific tweets
Speaker 1: that I put out, there is one thing in common.
Speaker 1: I was not a focused. My twins were crying. I
Speaker 1: was doing something else. I was watching something else. I
Speaker 1: truly Daryl Morey's a smart guy. He's an m I
Speaker 1: t he's a Northwestern guy. I mean I think that
Speaker 1: in the moment, whether he was drinking or whether he
Speaker 1: was just not a focused He knew what he was saying,
Speaker 1: but did not did not digest the fact in the
Speaker 1: moment for some reason. How perilous this was, be sure
Speaker 1: to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay
Speaker 1: Travis week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting because we talked about this a little bit. Uh,
Speaker 1: I know, we went back and forth on Twitter. I
Speaker 1: believe about this the most expensive tweets that have ever
Speaker 1: been sent. Elon Musk had his issue with the Securities
Speaker 1: and Exchange Commission when he said he was going to
Speaker 1: take Tesla private for four hundred and twenty dollars and
Speaker 1: then later had to pay a huge fine and I
Speaker 1: think give up its chairmanship or a part of the
Speaker 1: governing structure of Tesla as a result. You had Roseanne
Speaker 1: lose her show over her attack on Valerie Jarrett. You
Speaker 1: have had Donald Trump certainly has sent tweets that have
Speaker 1: either hurt the market cap or impacted the overall start market.
Speaker 1: A gender Kardashian correct, there was about Snapchat that wasn't
Speaker 1: overall like basically, I think I can't remember if it
Speaker 1: was Kylie Jenner or Kendall Jenner and Frankly, I can't
Speaker 1: tell the difference between the two, but one of them
Speaker 1: said that Snapchat is is like the new design on
Speaker 1: Snapchat is awful, and it was a cataclysmic hit to
Speaker 1: their stock. Nike obviously announces Kaepernick has a drop, then
Speaker 1: goes back up. But the difference, I would say in
Speaker 1: general with those is the stock market value, you know,
Speaker 1: like adjust every single day, So unlike those where they
Speaker 1: can bounce around with stock prices and everything else, this
Speaker 1: has more of I think an impactful and potentially lingering
Speaker 1: resonance than some of those do. Would you agree? Yes?
Speaker 1: And you know, I want to go back because I
Speaker 1: want to be able to answer your question. You know,
Speaker 1: you talked about authenticity now. I never I still thought
Speaker 1: it was the Jordan's I wasn't tricked by their social
Speaker 1: warrior status. I thought it was very much the Jordan
Speaker 1: Republican Dubai shoes too. Um and I do agree that
Speaker 1: it looks shallow to not engage in this when you
Speaker 1: have issues of human rights and lack of freedom. But
Speaker 1: you know what it's it's the truth is and they
Speaker 1: can never say this. It's not important to them. It's
Speaker 1: not important to their lives, and that's why they can't
Speaker 1: talk because and maybe that's horrible, but it's they can't.
Speaker 1: They can't. They can relate to police brutality and wear
Speaker 1: shirts I can't breathe, but they cannot relate to a
Speaker 1: place that is not free and where you're persecuted and
Speaker 1: thrown in jail for things in America that they just can't.
Speaker 1: They can't relate or they can't relate that quickly. And
Speaker 1: so I think they're being honest by not saying anything.
Speaker 1: But I also do think because if they said something,
Speaker 1: if it was what you really wanted to hear, it
Speaker 1: be really ugly. But I do think it is a
Speaker 1: shot against their authenticity. The question is what does what
Speaker 1: is that worth? And I don't think it's worth that much. Okay,
Speaker 1: I disagree. I think it's worth substantiable. Let's take away
Speaker 1: from the individual players for a moment and let me
Speaker 1: just say I think the NBA opened itself up to
Speaker 1: this accusation of hypocrisy, and Adam Silver did as well.
Speaker 1: And this is not something that's unique to me. I
Speaker 1: wrote this three years ago, and it's not something that's
Speaker 1: unique just to the NBA either. It annoys me to
Speaker 1: no end when people decide to say, like I think
Speaker 1: there were a couple of rock bands, for instance, that said, Hey,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to play in North Carolina because I
Speaker 1: disagree with the transgender bathroom bill in the North Carolina
Speaker 1: state legislature. But those same rock stars or rappers or
Speaker 1: whoever they may be, are willing to go to all
Speaker 1: sorts of kleptocracies around the world and play concerts in
Speaker 1: those places, and they don't care at all about the
Speaker 1: fact that they're playing in front of an audience that
Speaker 1: doesn't have the same basic human rights that they take
Speaker 1: for granted as Americans. I would say, you are you are?
Speaker 1: You are believing that there should be consistency, and I
Speaker 1: think in life there is not consistency. You know there
Speaker 1: when when something is closer to you, even geographically, you
Speaker 1: feel different about it. I would suggest that this is
Speaker 1: that what I think is happening here is I never
Speaker 1: bought into this woke universe of response. I thought it
Speaker 1: was something that to me, if you're going to be
Speaker 1: considered brave, and I've said this for a long time,
Speaker 1: you have to risk life, liberty, or at minimum something
Speaker 1: very dear to you, in order to be truly called brave, right,
Speaker 1: I think that's a air definition of bravery. The NBA
Speaker 1: and the players have not risked anything by the stances
Speaker 1: that they have taken in the United States related to politics.
Speaker 1: I would say that for Steve Kerr, I would say
Speaker 1: that for Greg Popovich, I would say that for Lebron James,
Speaker 1: I would say that for Adam Silver. They have gone
Speaker 1: after targets that are not in the wheelhouse of their
Speaker 1: existing fan base. If they are going to do that,
Speaker 1: and again, I I am of the ILK that believes that. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: if the NBA had just said all along, hey, we're
Speaker 1: about trying to make as much money as a capitalistic
Speaker 1: organization as is possible, then I think people like me
Speaker 1: would not have called them out on hypocrisy. I don't
Speaker 1: mind that, right. I understand what Disney is trying to
Speaker 1: do with China. I understand what Apple is trying to
Speaker 1: do with China. All these big multinational global brands that
Speaker 1: have to somehow in order to make money off China,
Speaker 1: acquiesced to some Chinese directives. I don't think it's smart
Speaker 1: as a as a political matter, but that's for governmental relations.
Speaker 1: I don't really get involved with individual brands, but you're you're,
Speaker 1: you're basically upset with the self branding and the societal
Speaker 1: branding of the NBA players as social warriors at whatever cost. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and well, because there is no cost to them. I
Speaker 1: mean they they have, you know, been praised and and
Speaker 1: and and gotten treated as if they are incredibly brave
Speaker 1: for stances that they have to get required that require
Speaker 1: no risk. And what happens for its icons. We we
Speaker 1: we overestimate, you know, we we talk about how charitable
Speaker 1: they are, and you know, and then you look behind
Speaker 1: it and you see that, you know, they don't give
Speaker 1: any money to their own foundations, and we prop these
Speaker 1: guys up on a pedestal for everything that they do.
Speaker 1: I think there's some truth to that, but I think
Speaker 1: there's a different level that the NBA received, And I
Speaker 1: think the media was culpable here. And I do think
Speaker 1: I'm curious if you agree with me here the NBA,
Speaker 1: the media that covers the NBA, if you compare them
Speaker 1: in general to the media that covers the NFL, is
Speaker 1: much less contentious and much more akin to a cheerleader
Speaker 1: group than it is to a rigorous and why do
Speaker 1: you think that agreed and that and that's that's that's
Speaker 1: also because they've they've had practice the NFL. I think
Speaker 1: the media has feels less pressure on itself because Roger
Speaker 1: Goodell is universally hated but much. I think before this,
Speaker 1: I think Adam Silver before this was you know, lauded
Speaker 1: and loved and and seen as smart. But I think
Speaker 1: that's because to a large extent, the people who cover
Speaker 1: the NBA agree with the social causes that NBA players
Speaker 1: and owners in the league has its best. No. I
Speaker 1: think it's because they're more comfortable listen. When when you're
Speaker 1: a reporter, you have to know when to take your
Speaker 1: shots and if taking your shots are worth it, taking
Speaker 1: shots at Roger Goodell or the establishment of the NFL
Speaker 1: or the union. It's easier to recover from taking those
Speaker 1: shots because you have the whole world behind you. It's
Speaker 1: chicken or egg. I mean, it's like you know you have.
Speaker 1: It's because there has been so much negative and the
Speaker 1: public agrees with the negative. That's what frees up NFL
Speaker 1: reporters from being able to criticize in the way that
Speaker 1: NBA reporters don't. I think that's interesting, but to me,
Speaker 1: the purpose of having a free and independent media is
Speaker 1: having media members who are brave enough not to worry
Speaker 1: about who's lining up behind them. I can maybe I'm
Speaker 1: rare in this, but I can legitimately say when I
Speaker 1: do my radio show, or I do my periscope, Facebook,
Speaker 1: or I write my columns, I never think are people
Speaker 1: going to agree with what I say or what I write?
Speaker 1: I think, do I believe? But but don Clay, you
Speaker 1: don't have to show up at the arena every day.
Speaker 1: You don't have to you don't have to show your face.
Speaker 1: But but that goes to the point, that goes to
Speaker 1: the point of yeah, that's what makes you you, but
Speaker 1: it also makes you more comfortable by the virtue of
Speaker 1: the fact that you don't have to show your face. Well,
Speaker 1: but most of those most of those guys are useless.
Speaker 1: I mean this goes to a larger context of what's
Speaker 1: the value of most people who cover a team? Not much?
Speaker 1: I mean, right, like if you took out if you
Speaker 1: knocked out of the people who show up for a
Speaker 1: press conference and only allowed two percent of people to
Speaker 1: ask the questions. And I've been arguing this for a
Speaker 1: long time. The value of the press conference would be
Speaker 1: higher because there's a huge percentage of people there that
Speaker 1: provide actually nothing of value based on their attendance there.
Speaker 1: So look, if if Lebron James said, Hey, I'll have
Speaker 1: a sit down with you and you can ask me
Speaker 1: any question under the sun, I would do it. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it because I would actually ask him questions
Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to answer, I always say on
Speaker 1: my radio. And he believes, and he believes as all
Speaker 1: these NBA stars believed that they should be afforded the
Speaker 1: right to pick and choose the questions. Now, now, I've
Speaker 1: never said that they were social warriors. I never said
Speaker 1: that they deserved more than I thought they deserved that society.
Speaker 1: That's not my problem. But yes, I mean they're they're
Speaker 1: going to pick and choose because they feel like they
Speaker 1: deserve the right to do that, because they've achieved basketball
Speaker 1: success and they don't want anything to compromise them. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any danger to them though,
Speaker 1: is my point? Like, if Lebron James came out and
Speaker 1: truly wanted to be the Mohammed Ali of our generation
Speaker 1: as opposed to lazy people who haven't studied history, comparing
Speaker 1: him to Mohammed Ali. He could say it's more profitable
Speaker 1: to pick and choose, correct. I understand that. But if
Speaker 1: Lebron James truly wanted to be Mohammed Ali, he could
Speaker 1: come out and say, I believe all one point four
Speaker 1: billion people in China should have the same basic human
Speaker 1: rights that we have in America, and the fact that
Speaker 1: they don't is wrong. It's a very simple statement, but
Speaker 1: it worth eight million dollars a year for him not
Speaker 1: to say that. Okay, but he's got hundreds of millions
Speaker 1: of dollars, and so Mohammad Ali risked his entire career
Speaker 1: in order to become Muhammad Ali. I mean, he took
Speaker 1: a stand on a contentious social issue that a lot
Speaker 1: of people disagreed with. For all of Lebron's talk about
Speaker 1: how brave he is and how active he is, what's
Speaker 1: the most controversial thing that Lebron James has ever said.
Speaker 1: I'm taking my talents to South Beach. It was entirely
Speaker 1: a decision rooted in sports. He's never said anything remotely
Speaker 1: comparable to I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet
Speaker 1: Com which is what Muhammad Ali said. You do have
Speaker 1: to be fair, you do have to compare generations. So like,
Speaker 1: would Muhammad Ali be who he was if the endorsements
Speaker 1: were dangling the way they're dangling, And that's a great question.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe he never would have. Like Lebron is a
Speaker 1: step up from Jordan's. Jordan wouldn't talk about anything, So
Speaker 1: Lebron's a step up. He'll talk about things he's comfortable with,
Speaker 1: but he will talk. Jordan wasn't comfortable with talking about
Speaker 1: Ain't Steven I would? I would disagree, And that's an
Speaker 1: interesting argument. You can argue that Jordan was a step
Speaker 1: Lebron's a step up from Jordans. I actually disagree. I
Speaker 1: think what Jordan represented was the goal of appealing to
Speaker 1: everyone with the excellence of his talents. But he only
Speaker 1: wanted for his talents in basketball to be his calling card.
Speaker 1: That is, to me different than Lebron, who I think
Speaker 1: recognized that he was not going to ever reach the
Speaker 1: six titles of Michael Jordan's or reach the elevated stature
Speaker 1: worldwide of Michael Jordan's, and so about twelve or fourteen
Speaker 1: years into his into his career, he pivoted and decided,
Speaker 1: I'm going to try to become a figure like Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali more than I'm going to be a figure like
Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's. And as a result, they give both of
Speaker 1: these guys. You can you give these guys, both of
Speaker 1: these guys way too much credit. I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: think they think about their brand in that way. I
Speaker 1: think Jordan's just simply said, listened up until this point
Speaker 1: in a black man wasn't speaking to white to white
Speaker 1: people for endorsements just didn't happen. I mean, yes, there was,
Speaker 1: there were small endorsements. O J. J had hurts other
Speaker 1: than O J. Who who who, as alleged by Black
Speaker 1: America like made himself white to do it. Um. But
Speaker 1: but yeah, but yeah, no, and so it was enough
Speaker 1: of a challenge to be the everyman as a black
Speaker 1: person in five um. And and so I don't think
Speaker 1: he wanted to screw that up. Um but I don't.
Speaker 1: But I think there's appeal there, right because Jordan. If
Speaker 1: you wanted to kind of put Jordan in that context
Speaker 1: of becoming an everyman pitch man whose race was not
Speaker 1: integral to his overall appeal, that was also the case
Speaker 1: with back in that those days, Eddie Murphy, will Smith
Speaker 1: would later take that baton Bill Cosby, certainly in The
Speaker 1: Cosby Show, which was revolutionary in the sense that it
Speaker 1: portrayed a black American family as not that much different
Speaker 1: than a white American family. Right, You're trying to appeal
Speaker 1: to everyone, the idea being that we, despite our differences
Speaker 1: of race or gender, ethnicity, whatever else, actually have a
Speaker 1: lot more in common than we do indifferent And I
Speaker 1: think what Lebron has done is sliced and diced a
Speaker 1: small segment of that population and said I'm gonna try
Speaker 1: to fulfill and be the every man for this small group.
Speaker 1: And I think that you may be right that it's
Speaker 1: not a calculated decision. I tend to think there are
Speaker 1: tons of branding people that are sitting around with these
Speaker 1: guys trying to pitch them all day long on what
Speaker 1: they think makes sense. Um and uh. And certainly social
Speaker 1: media can complicate this because you have the ability to
Speaker 1: make decisions kind of instantaneously. Um. And The idea with
Speaker 1: social media, and I think you would agree, is that
Speaker 1: authenticity matters more than anything. But if Lebron is going
Speaker 1: to sell this idea of a quality of everybody being
Speaker 1: on the same level of the importance of speaking truth
Speaker 1: to power. That's kind of his brand now, right. He
Speaker 1: certainly has basically just done what he said he would
Speaker 1: never do, which is shut up in dribble for money. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I I get it. I don't think I think, well,
Speaker 1: well that makes sense. I don't think that's going to
Speaker 1: cost him. I don't. I don't think that's going to
Speaker 1: cost him. And the reason I said I thought Adam
Speaker 1: Silver had a win was, you know, I do think
Speaker 1: it was a win for for the business. And I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to say that it was the it was
Speaker 1: the right move. I just do think that, you know,
Speaker 1: I had thought that that China wanted to win, and
Speaker 1: I thought they'd lock him out of the arena. Known
Speaker 1: would show up. They didn't lock him out of the arena,
Speaker 1: and everyone showed up. Fox Sports Radio has the best
Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our
Speaker 1: shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. Search f s are to listen live.
Speaker 1: I think China saying you can come play, but you
Speaker 1: have to play by our rules, which means you can't
Speaker 1: talk to the media, which means your players say nothing.
Speaker 1: I think that's a win for China because it is
Speaker 1: I mean, really, if you break it down, what actually
Speaker 1: happened there. China told the NBA and their teams and
Speaker 1: their biggest stars Lebron James, Adam Silver, Kyrie Irving, Anthony
Speaker 1: Davis shut up and dribble, or you have to leave
Speaker 1: our country and we're gonna money, and they did. I
Speaker 1: think in the process of playing the game and not
Speaker 1: walking away, I think Adam Silver felt like he had
Speaker 1: to do what was right for business, and I think
Speaker 1: from a business standpoint that was right. I also think
Speaker 1: that you know, the people who I'm just I'm trying
Speaker 1: to look at this in a non emotional way, right like,
Speaker 1: just from the business standpoint, and it's hard to do
Speaker 1: that because of what China has done to its people.
Speaker 1: But um, I think that he did make the right
Speaker 1: move in being able to play the actual game despite
Speaker 1: the fact, as he said that it was not on
Speaker 1: TV there. Um he did not leave. He did not
Speaker 1: leave because he basically was saying, we want to play
Speaker 1: for you, we want to be here, even if it
Speaker 1: was under their terms. Um, I think that I think
Speaker 1: it was the right move from a business standpoint, and
Speaker 1: I was told there were people who were trying to
Speaker 1: tell him, no, we should go, we should go, and
Speaker 1: he was absolutely insistent that they play the game. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I disagree. I think that I think they should have gone.
Speaker 1: Here here's what I would say. You asked a good question,
Speaker 1: what's the impact when they come back to the United States, right,
Speaker 1: because not like they're going to stay in China for
Speaker 1: very long. Here's where I think this could be significant
Speaker 1: for them. I think certainly when they start to try
Speaker 1: to speak out again. Like let's say that I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know where the next All Star Game is
Speaker 1: going to be, but let's say it could happen. It
Speaker 1: wouldn't be stunning, right if in the state of Georgia,
Speaker 1: Like you may know where the next NBA All Star
Speaker 1: Game is gonna be. I'm just gonna pick a state, Georgia.
Speaker 1: Let's say that Georgia has an abortion but like they
Speaker 1: have that abortion bill that Hollywood wasn't happy about, right
Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it. And there was
Speaker 1: talk about, oh, we're gonna pull our pull our resources
Speaker 1: out of the state of Georgia because of the precedent
Speaker 1: that they set with North Carolina. Anytime they're going into
Speaker 1: a state that has a controversial political legislation in front
Speaker 1: of it. Now people are gonna say, well, you pulled
Speaker 1: out of North Carolina. If they decide to get involved
Speaker 1: in that politically, the immediate response is going to be, dude,
Speaker 1: you played games in China. You can't complain about any
Speaker 1: existing state law anymore in the United States, no doubt,
Speaker 1: There is no doubt to me that that is accurate.
Speaker 1: That is accurate that they that they have I agree
Speaker 1: with you, they have compromised their ability to really do
Speaker 1: anything from a political maybe social standpoint now that you
Speaker 1: can always bring up China. Not only that, like sorry,
Speaker 1: you can line up. But the question is, I don't
Speaker 1: think that costs them that much. That's that's where we differ. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get I'm gonna get to that in a seccause.
Speaker 1: I do think also all this conversation, every single team
Speaker 1: that wins, are you going to go to the White
Speaker 1: House as long as Donald Trump is there? It's a discussion.
Speaker 1: If the Lakers win the title, let's say, and Lebron
Speaker 1: James tries to make a big statement by saying, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna go see that bum in the White House,
Speaker 1: meaning Donald Trump, It's not going to have any residents anymore,
Speaker 1: because immediately, even for people who support Lebron James, they're
Speaker 1: gonna kind of have to nod their head and say,
Speaker 1: but dude, you were willing to go play in China,
Speaker 1: and you shut up and you said nothing. And then
Speaker 1: you come back into America and you take advantage of
Speaker 1: freedom of speech and the fact that there's no real
Speaker 1: danger to your brand. You look like a hypocrite. Now
Speaker 1: you went to China, but you wouldn't go to the
Speaker 1: White House. Now, let me also say this, You know
Speaker 1: as well as I do, that the NBA Finals bring
Speaker 1: in a huge audience that isn't otherwise committed to the NBA. Right,
Speaker 1: Like the die hard NBA fan I tend to agree
Speaker 1: with you is probably not going to be very impacted
Speaker 1: by this. Right, if you have season tickets, if you
Speaker 1: like a particular team, if you like a particular player,
Speaker 1: you're probably going to continue. But that's a relatively small
Speaker 1: part of the American sporting audience. In fact, if you
Speaker 1: look at like the start of the NBA playoffs, four
Speaker 1: or five million people might watch a big NBA playoff
Speaker 1: game in the early rounds versus fourteen or fifteen million
Speaker 1: who watch in the NBA Finals sometime up to you know,
Speaker 1: I think what happens is those are the people the
Speaker 1: NBA has to be concerned about. And I do think
Speaker 1: there are a lot of part and that a lot
Speaker 1: of people in the middle part of the country. I
Speaker 1: live in Nashville. I think there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people in the state of Tennessee who love basketball. I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of people in the state of
Speaker 1: Indiana who love basketball, State of North Carolina, normal middle
Speaker 1: of the road people who are going to be very
Speaker 1: turned off by what they saw the NBA doing in China. Now,
Speaker 1: if they get a great, unbelievable series and they get
Speaker 1: let's say, I don't know the two best teams that
Speaker 1: could possibly play, and I don't even know who those
Speaker 1: teams are right now, but they get Lebron in the finals,
Speaker 1: and they get Lebron against somebody from the East who's valid,
Speaker 1: maybe the strength of that overall series could matter. But
Speaker 1: I do think they've lost people on the fringes who
Speaker 1: are otherwise gonna watch Netflix, or who are otherwise gonna
Speaker 1: watch Amazon Prime or the latest HBO show, and they'll say,
Speaker 1: screw it, I'm not gonna watch the n b A.
Speaker 1: I didn't like the way they responded when they were
Speaker 1: confronted with an issue in China. As an American, I
Speaker 1: don't find the league response correct. I do think that
Speaker 1: can impact at the fringes one or two, notch it,
Speaker 1: I don't. I think I think they're h I think
Speaker 1: their risk is the Rockets because they happen to be
Speaker 1: good and uh and I do think that that China
Speaker 1: will as things have the potential to get better. I
Speaker 1: think they're going to continue to blame the Rockets and yeah,
Speaker 1: is not going to help. So I think they're you know,
Speaker 1: from a from a world standpoint, I don't think Americans
Speaker 1: are going to feel effected by this, even the casual
Speaker 1: fans on the fringes. I think that their concern has
Speaker 1: to continue to be China, and if the Rockets are
Speaker 1: really good and they're in the finals, it will hurt
Speaker 1: them more. That's an interesting point that the Rockets are
Speaker 1: there that the China might not even show it. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: I mean now that could be a legitimate that could
Speaker 1: be a legitimate concern if the Rockets are in the
Speaker 1: NBA finals, and they could be if Russell, rest Brook
Speaker 1: and James Harden go, well, um, what did you think
Speaker 1: about the NBA? I guess it ended up being the
Speaker 1: Houston Rockets cutting off questions now for players about China.
Speaker 1: Do you think that will become commonplace? You know, I
Speaker 1: think that, you know, with with Steve Kerr, I mean,
Speaker 1: do we believe I'm not sure. I believe that Steve
Speaker 1: Kerr doesn't have enough information. I do not believe that
Speaker 1: he's too smartly. Yes, I do believe. I do believe
Speaker 1: that players don't have enough information. Um and and so
Speaker 1: I think they're legitimately worried about you know, what they're
Speaker 1: gonna say or you know, and so they cut them off,
Speaker 1: just like Clemson doesn't allow their football players to be
Speaker 1: on social media. The same thing. Um, So yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not it's not ideal, but I would rather than do
Speaker 1: that than the Steve curR answer of you know, I
Speaker 1: got to learn more, because I think they really do
Speaker 1: need to learn more before saying something. Be sure to
Speaker 1: catch live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis
Speaker 1: week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're
Speaker 1: talking to Darren Ravelle. By the way, go follow him
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Darren Velle Love following him. We've known
Speaker 1: each other for a long time. We don't always agree,
Speaker 1: but that's one of the great things about living in America.
Speaker 1: We don't have to on every single subject. So, uh,
Speaker 1: it would not have this show in China. Would not
Speaker 1: have this show in China. Yes, in America. Now though Philadelphi,
Speaker 1: you protesters chanting free Hong Kong escorted out of the arena.
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo in d C. Last night, protesters show up
Speaker 1: to support Hong Kong kicked out. Now they're Chinese teams
Speaker 1: playing against American teams, So that's what's going on. How
Speaker 1: much does the NBA have to be concerned that a
Speaker 1: calculated attempt to make the NBA the focal point of
Speaker 1: all protests could occur among activists in the United States
Speaker 1: now because of the way the situation in China has
Speaker 1: played out. Concerned, They do have to be concerned absolutely
Speaker 1: that the NBA is just the right place to protest, because,
Speaker 1: as you know, protesters go where they can be most effective,
Speaker 1: can be heard the most. No, they're gonna get kicked out.
Speaker 1: So listen. Having watched the video in Washington, Um, you
Speaker 1: know the security guards were definitely told about this. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure that that the Wizards or anyone was thinking
Speaker 1: about it. I think the NBA has been so busy
Speaker 1: in China that they haven't figured out, you know, how
Speaker 1: to put everything together. But the NBA has a group
Speaker 1: called Team Bow, which is essentially all the teams are
Speaker 1: competing against each other, but they all share information. And
Speaker 1: it's better than any other major league out there. And
Speaker 1: I expect them to share information and and probably you know,
Speaker 1: just do the best they can. And and probably and
Speaker 1: I think that might mean allowing them, you know, because
Speaker 1: if once you allow them to hold signs, and there's
Speaker 1: not the video, the home video, you know, the cell
Speaker 1: phone of the guy getting his free Hong Kong signs
Speaker 1: uh uh taken away, then you make them powerless or
Speaker 1: at least diminish. It's right, they need to conflict in
Speaker 1: order to create a lot of attention. But the downside
Speaker 1: is the downside is if these games are being streamed
Speaker 1: into Hong Kong, I mean into China and into Hong
Speaker 1: Kong and everywhere else, then the Chinese censors may well
Speaker 1: say we can't have Chinese games airing here, and less
Speaker 1: the n b A is going to be cutting out
Speaker 1: the signs before it arrives to us. But how do
Speaker 1: you do that with a live sporting event. The reason
Speaker 1: why I bring it up is, you know this, they
Speaker 1: will edit all different sorts of movies, right like the
Speaker 1: Newest Avengers. They'll take out a couple of minutes that
Speaker 1: they decide offends Chinese viewership, but they have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to view that in advance with live sports. This seems
Speaker 1: like it could be a real challenge to the NBA's
Speaker 1: China partnership. If people underneath the baseline are allowed to
Speaker 1: hold free Hong Kong signs up or sitting courtside, how
Speaker 1: in the world do you handle that when somebody goes
Speaker 1: to try to save a ball out of bounds and
Speaker 1: the camera naturally follows the player and there's four people
Speaker 1: in a row holding up free Hong Kong signs on
Speaker 1: the front row. Right, Well, well listen, let me in
Speaker 1: with this. Okay, this is I think this is the
Speaker 1: most complex situation we've ever had in sports that an
Speaker 1: executive of league has ever had to deal with. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's when you look at Donald Sterling, there was one
Speaker 1: choice to make. Um. Yeah, Pete Roselle made the wrong
Speaker 1: decision with JFK when he got assassinated and going out
Speaker 1: and playing games. And that's but there are so many
Speaker 1: complexities to this. If Adam Silver sees the business, he's
Speaker 1: being heartless, gutless, unethical. Uh. If the players don't talk,
Speaker 1: they're losing their authenticity. They don't you now don't trust
Speaker 1: them about caring about anything other than battles that they
Speaker 1: can always win. Um. So this is gonna be from
Speaker 1: a from a journalist standpoint, this is gonna be really
Speaker 1: really interesting to cover and from a human standpoint too.
Speaker 1: I mean, what happens is a player going to go
Speaker 1: out on a limb this year, an NBA player when
Speaker 1: things die down and it's not just basketball. Is a
Speaker 1: team going to try to say all questions are about
Speaker 1: basketball this year? Okay, fine, then we're not going to
Speaker 1: talk about the team charity or what the guys doing
Speaker 1: off the court. So there's so many tentacles for this
Speaker 1: that uh, it's it is just going to be so
Speaker 1: fascinating to cover this, And I think her people are
Speaker 1: going to be challenged. Executives, team executives are going to
Speaker 1: be challenged. There is there is more to do off
Speaker 1: the court now than on the court. And um, we've
Speaker 1: never seen anything like this. Last question for you, how
Speaker 1: does the NBA respond if a player writes free Hong
Speaker 1: Kong on their sneakers or a player wants to come
Speaker 1: out in a free Hong Kong T shirt like they
Speaker 1: allowed other UH players to make statements about police brutality
Speaker 1: and whatnot. What do they do? Does the NBA have
Speaker 1: to implement a policy here? Do you think somebody challenges
Speaker 1: the you know the basically right now, what appears to
Speaker 1: be almost an agreed upon silence on this issue. Will
Speaker 1: someone challenge it? And if some what it on how
Speaker 1: much the NBA you know, wants this business? It really does?
Speaker 1: It depends on whether Adam Silver wanted the business, did
Speaker 1: not want a backdown, wanted to play, wanted to say
Speaker 1: that China will still play, will agree to your rules.
Speaker 1: But you know, obviously China is not going to want
Speaker 1: those signs or those those statements on shirts for pregame
Speaker 1: or anything like that for warm up um or on
Speaker 1: a shoe that is played during the game. You know,
Speaker 1: so I think that they're gonna they'll revisit it, they'll
Speaker 1: figure it out, But I totally expect there to be
Speaker 1: some sort of formal policy that Adam Silver is not
Speaker 1: going to care if it gets out. They did they
Speaker 1: people didn't talk about the fact that, you know, the
Speaker 1: NBA clearly put a quote of silence on these players.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, coming out, we're gonna we're
Speaker 1: gonna see what's behind the curtain. And and if Adam
Speaker 1: Silver doesn't want people to find out, I don't think
Speaker 1: that's going to happen. But they're going to have to
Speaker 1: make some really clear rules. And if you find out
Speaker 1: that each player doesn't can't, can't have free Hong Kong
Speaker 1: on them, and people are going to assault the NBA
Speaker 1: again and say they're you know, they're for money and
Speaker 1: they're green the Chinese the Chinese government's rules because they
Speaker 1: just want to make money. And maybe Adam Silver is
Speaker 1: gonna have to be okay with that. It is a
Speaker 1: challenge that the NBA has that the NFL, for one,
Speaker 1: doesn't have, the NHL doesn't have, and certainly Major League
Speaker 1: Baseball because the NBA has relied so much on creating
Speaker 1: basketball as a global brand. I'm with you. I think
Speaker 1: this is one of the most fascinating intersections of sports politics, culture.
Speaker 1: Uh and beyond that, we have ever seen, and I
Speaker 1: certainly didn't see when the weekend started that this was
Speaker 1: going to turn into the story that it has. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much, Darren Ravelle for the time. I think
Speaker 1: people are really going to enjoy this. Uh and good
Speaker 1: luck to following the twist and turns as they continue
Speaker 1: to emerge. Clay, I had a lot of respect for you.
Speaker 1: Always great to come on with you. That's Darren Ravelle.
Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. Special addition of the Wins and Losses
Speaker 1: podcast discussing the wins and losses for the NBA as
Speaker 1: it is dealt with China all week long. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to us. If you enjoyed this one, you'll enjoy
Speaker 1: wait a lot of others as well. Again, this has
Speaker 1: been Winston Watson. I'm Clay Travis, and thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: H