1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: This is Wins and Losses with Clay Trevis. Clay talks 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: with the most entertaining people in sports, entertainment and business. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: Now here's Clay Trevis. Welcome and Clay Travis so Wins 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: and lost his podcast. Special addition, we are reacting to 5 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: the NBA in China and we have got Darren Ravel 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: with us. Darren works at the at the What what 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: is the the Action Network? I was gonna say there's 8 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: too many different companies now that had to start with 9 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: an A. He's at the Action Network. Um, and uh 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: he is? Uh he has. We've been talking. We went 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: back and forth on Twitter about this. People out there 12 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: who haven't been paying attention. Earlier this week, Darryl Moray, 13 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: the the general manager of the Houston Rockets, and a 14 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: tweet supportive of democracy protests in Hong Kong, which is 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: a semi autonomous region of China. The Chinese government flipped 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: out over this at the same time that basically the 17 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: NBA was supposed to be having a goodwill tour and 18 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: everything has fallen apart since then. We are talking now. 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: On Thursday afternoon, they played the first preseason game between 20 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: the Lakers and the Nets, but the but China mandated 21 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: that there would be no media availabilities associated with that. 22 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: In the NBA acquiesced to those requirements. China also refused 23 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 1: to play the games in the country. You could watch 24 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: the game here in the United States on the NBA 25 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: UH network if you put it on early this morning. So, uh, Darren, 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: So let's let's start here. Uh. My contention is that 27 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: this is a body blow of a significant magnitude to 28 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: the NBA's over overall brand, which I believe is rooted 29 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: in authenticity. And the authenticity that the NBA has sold, 30 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: at least to a large percentage of its fan base 31 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: is our players are real, They say what they think. 32 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: We don't police their opinions on anything. And now the 33 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: NBA has found itself confronted with a true issue of 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: a substantial global nature, unlike let's say, the transgender bathroom 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: law in North Carolina, which led the team to abandon 36 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: the state of North Carolina, or something as relatively inconsequential 37 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: as the use of the word owner, which the NBA 38 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: replaced with governor. Do you believe and agree with me 39 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: that this has been a overall very bad week for 40 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: the NBA. Let's let let let me just start by 41 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: going going back a little bit. Daryl Morey is the 42 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: GM of the Houston Rockets. He's not the GM of 43 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: the Memphis Grizzlies or another team. The reason why that's 44 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:53,120 Speaker 1: important is because Killman for Tita just bought this team 45 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: for two point two billion dollars, and probably ten percent 46 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: of that valuation is based on the fact that through 47 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: Yao Ming, the Rockets became the most relevant team in 48 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 1: China more than their relevance deserves, more than they deserve 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: at all. Um, And so what percent? So let me 50 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: cut you off there. What percentage of that two point 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: one billion dollar valuation of the Houston Rockets do you 52 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: think was attributable to their overall brand value in China? Uh? 53 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: At least ten, I would think, I would think more. 54 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: But two million dollars you think connected? Yes? Yes? And 55 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: if you were to tell me that, um, there's going 56 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 1: to be horrible relations for five years and the Houston 57 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: Rockets at least for five years with no foreseeable future 58 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: of returning to where they were before, I would say that, 59 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: you know, it's three hundred or five hundred million dollars off. Um, Yes, 60 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: this is a this was a Collot. This is this 61 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: was a horrible, horrible week for the NBA, So let's 62 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: put that in context. But the fact that it was 63 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: the rockets and the fact that the guy who kicked 64 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: down the door, Yao Ming, had to make a comment, 65 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: he couldn't hide because he is running the Chinese Basketball Association, 66 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 1: So it could not have been worse. From that standpoint, 67 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: What do you think Darryl Moray was thinking? Do you 68 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: think he had any clue what he was stepping into 69 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: when he decided to tweet? Why do you think he 70 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: decided to do it? Okay, So I've done about a 71 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: hundred fifty thousand, hundred sixty thousand tweets. I don't know 72 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: if this is the same for you for nearly a 73 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: hundred nearly a hundred thousand of tweets, by the way, 74 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: for me, so so for the five absolutely horrific tweets 75 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: that I put out, there is one thing in common. 76 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: I was not a focused. My twins were crying. I 77 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: was doing something else. I was watching something else. I 78 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: truly Daryl Morey's a smart guy. He's an m I 79 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: t he's a Northwestern guy. I mean I think that 80 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: in the moment, whether he was drinking or whether he 81 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: was just not a focused He knew what he was saying, 82 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: but did not did not digest the fact in the 83 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: moment for some reason. How perilous this was, be sure 84 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: to catch live editions about kicked the coverage with Clay 85 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: Travis week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. 86 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: And it's interesting because we talked about this a little bit. Uh, 87 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: I know, we went back and forth on Twitter. I 88 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: believe about this the most expensive tweets that have ever 89 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: been sent. Elon Musk had his issue with the Securities 90 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: and Exchange Commission when he said he was going to 91 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: take Tesla private for four hundred and twenty dollars and 92 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: then later had to pay a huge fine and I 93 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: think give up its chairmanship or a part of the 94 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,160 Speaker 1: governing structure of Tesla as a result. You had Roseanne 95 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: lose her show over her attack on Valerie Jarrett. You 96 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: have had Donald Trump certainly has sent tweets that have 97 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: either hurt the market cap or impacted the overall start market. 98 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 1: A gender Kardashian correct, there was about Snapchat that wasn't 99 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 1: overall like basically, I think I can't remember if it 100 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: was Kylie Jenner or Kendall Jenner and Frankly, I can't 101 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: tell the difference between the two, but one of them 102 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: said that Snapchat is is like the new design on 103 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: Snapchat is awful, and it was a cataclysmic hit to 104 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 1: their stock. Nike obviously announces Kaepernick has a drop, then 105 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: goes back up. But the difference, I would say in 106 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: general with those is the stock market value, you know, 107 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: like adjust every single day, So unlike those where they 108 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: can bounce around with stock prices and everything else, this 109 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: has more of I think an impactful and potentially lingering 110 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: resonance than some of those do. Would you agree? Yes? 111 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: And you know, I want to go back because I 112 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: want to be able to answer your question. You know, 113 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: you talked about authenticity now. I never I still thought 114 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: it was the Jordan's I wasn't tricked by their social 115 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: warrior status. I thought it was very much the Jordan 116 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: Republican Dubai shoes too. Um and I do agree that 117 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: it looks shallow to not engage in this when you 118 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 1: have issues of human rights and lack of freedom. But 119 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: you know what it's it's the truth is and they 120 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: can never say this. It's not important to them. It's 121 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: not important to their lives, and that's why they can't 122 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: talk because and maybe that's horrible, but it's they can't. 123 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 1: They can't. They can relate to police brutality and wear 124 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: shirts I can't breathe, but they cannot relate to a 125 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: place that is not free and where you're persecuted and 126 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: thrown in jail for things in America that they just can't. 127 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: They can't relate or they can't relate that quickly. And 128 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: so I think they're being honest by not saying anything. 129 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: But I also do think because if they said something, 130 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: if it was what you really wanted to hear, it 131 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: be really ugly. But I do think it is a 132 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: shot against their authenticity. The question is what does what 133 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: is that worth? And I don't think it's worth that much. Okay, 134 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: I disagree. I think it's worth substantiable. Let's take away 135 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: from the individual players for a moment and let me 136 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: just say I think the NBA opened itself up to 137 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: this accusation of hypocrisy, and Adam Silver did as well. 138 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: And this is not something that's unique to me. I 139 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: wrote this three years ago, and it's not something that's 140 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: unique just to the NBA either. It annoys me to 141 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: no end when people decide to say, like I think 142 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: there were a couple of rock bands, for instance, that said, Hey, 143 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: I'm not going to play in North Carolina because I 144 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: disagree with the transgender bathroom bill in the North Carolina 145 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: state legislature. But those same rock stars or rappers or 146 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: whoever they may be, are willing to go to all 147 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 1: sorts of kleptocracies around the world and play concerts in 148 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 1: those places, and they don't care at all about the 149 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: fact that they're playing in front of an audience that 150 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: doesn't have the same basic human rights that they take 151 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: for granted as Americans. I would say, you are you are? 152 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: You are believing that there should be consistency, and I 153 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: think in life there is not consistency. You know there 154 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: when when something is closer to you, even geographically, you 155 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: feel different about it. I would suggest that this is 156 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: that what I think is happening here is I never 157 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: bought into this woke universe of response. I thought it 158 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 1: was something that to me, if you're going to be 159 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: considered brave, and I've said this for a long time, 160 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: you have to risk life, liberty, or at minimum something 161 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: very dear to you, in order to be truly called brave, right, 162 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: I think that's a air definition of bravery. The NBA 163 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: and the players have not risked anything by the stances 164 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: that they have taken in the United States related to politics. 165 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: I would say that for Steve Kerr, I would say 166 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: that for Greg Popovich, I would say that for Lebron James, 167 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: I would say that for Adam Silver. They have gone 168 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: after targets that are not in the wheelhouse of their 169 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: existing fan base. If they are going to do that, 170 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,559 Speaker 1: and again, I I am of the ILK that believes that. Ultimately, 171 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 1: if the NBA had just said all along, hey, we're 172 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: about trying to make as much money as a capitalistic 173 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 1: organization as is possible, then I think people like me 174 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: would not have called them out on hypocrisy. I don't 175 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: mind that, right. I understand what Disney is trying to 176 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,439 Speaker 1: do with China. I understand what Apple is trying to 177 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: do with China. All these big multinational global brands that 178 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: have to somehow in order to make money off China, 179 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 1: acquiesced to some Chinese directives. I don't think it's smart 180 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: as a as a political matter, but that's for governmental relations. 181 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: I don't really get involved with individual brands, but you're you're, 182 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 1: you're basically upset with the self branding and the societal 183 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: branding of the NBA players as social warriors at whatever cost. Yeah, 184 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: and well, because there is no cost to them. I 185 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: mean they they have, you know, been praised and and 186 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: and and gotten treated as if they are incredibly brave 187 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: for stances that they have to get required that require 188 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: no risk. And what happens for its icons. We we 189 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: we overestimate, you know, we we talk about how charitable 190 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: they are, and you know, and then you look behind 191 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: it and you see that, you know, they don't give 192 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: any money to their own foundations, and we prop these 193 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: guys up on a pedestal for everything that they do. 194 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: I think there's some truth to that, but I think 195 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: there's a different level that the NBA received, And I 196 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: think the media was culpable here. And I do think 197 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: I'm curious if you agree with me here the NBA, 198 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: the media that covers the NBA, if you compare them 199 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: in general to the media that covers the NFL, is 200 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: much less contentious and much more akin to a cheerleader 201 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: group than it is to a rigorous and why do 202 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: you think that agreed and that and that's that's that's 203 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: also because they've they've had practice the NFL. I think 204 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: the media has feels less pressure on itself because Roger 205 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: Goodell is universally hated but much. I think before this, 206 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 1: I think Adam Silver before this was you know, lauded 207 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: and loved and and seen as smart. But I think 208 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: that's because to a large extent, the people who cover 209 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: the NBA agree with the social causes that NBA players 210 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: and owners in the league has its best. No. I 211 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: think it's because they're more comfortable listen. When when you're 212 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,560 Speaker 1: a reporter, you have to know when to take your 213 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: shots and if taking your shots are worth it, taking 214 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: shots at Roger Goodell or the establishment of the NFL 215 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: or the union. It's easier to recover from taking those 216 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: shots because you have the whole world behind you. It's 217 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: chicken or egg. I mean, it's like you know you have. 218 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,199 Speaker 1: It's because there has been so much negative and the 219 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: public agrees with the negative. That's what frees up NFL 220 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: reporters from being able to criticize in the way that 221 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: NBA reporters don't. I think that's interesting, but to me, 222 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: the purpose of having a free and independent media is 223 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: having media members who are brave enough not to worry 224 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: about who's lining up behind them. I can maybe I'm 225 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: rare in this, but I can legitimately say when I 226 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: do my radio show, or I do my periscope, Facebook, 227 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: or I write my columns, I never think are people 228 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,679 Speaker 1: going to agree with what I say or what I write? 229 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: I think, do I believe? But but don Clay, you 230 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: don't have to show up at the arena every day. 231 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: You don't have to you don't have to show your face. 232 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 1: But but that goes to the point, that goes to 233 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: the point of yeah, that's what makes you you, but 234 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: it also makes you more comfortable by the virtue of 235 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: the fact that you don't have to show your face. Well, 236 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: but most of those most of those guys are useless. 237 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: I mean this goes to a larger context of what's 238 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: the value of most people who cover a team? Not much? 239 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean, right, like if you took out if you 240 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: knocked out of the people who show up for a 241 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: press conference and only allowed two percent of people to 242 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: ask the questions. And I've been arguing this for a 243 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: long time. The value of the press conference would be 244 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: higher because there's a huge percentage of people there that 245 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: provide actually nothing of value based on their attendance there. 246 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: So look, if if Lebron James said, Hey, I'll have 247 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: a sit down with you and you can ask me 248 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: any question under the sun, I would do it. He 249 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: wouldn't do it because I would actually ask him questions 250 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: that he doesn't want to answer, I always say on 251 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: my radio. And he believes, and he believes as all 252 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: these NBA stars believed that they should be afforded the 253 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: right to pick and choose the questions. Now, now, I've 254 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: never said that they were social warriors. I never said 255 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: that they deserved more than I thought they deserved that society. 256 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: That's not my problem. But yes, I mean they're they're 257 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: going to pick and choose because they feel like they 258 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,479 Speaker 1: deserve the right to do that, because they've achieved basketball 259 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: success and they don't want anything to compromise them. Yeah. 260 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: I don't think that there's any danger to them though, 261 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: is my point? Like, if Lebron James came out and 262 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: truly wanted to be the Mohammed Ali of our generation 263 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: as opposed to lazy people who haven't studied history, comparing 264 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: him to Mohammed Ali. He could say it's more profitable 265 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: to pick and choose, correct. I understand that. But if 266 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: Lebron James truly wanted to be Mohammed Ali, he could 267 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: come out and say, I believe all one point four 268 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: billion people in China should have the same basic human 269 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: rights that we have in America, and the fact that 270 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: they don't is wrong. It's a very simple statement, but 271 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: it worth eight million dollars a year for him not 272 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 1: to say that. Okay, but he's got hundreds of millions 273 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: of dollars, and so Mohammad Ali risked his entire career 274 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: in order to become Muhammad Ali. I mean, he took 275 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: a stand on a contentious social issue that a lot 276 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: of people disagreed with. For all of Lebron's talk about 277 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 1: how brave he is and how active he is, what's 278 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,560 Speaker 1: the most controversial thing that Lebron James has ever said. 279 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm taking my talents to South Beach. It was entirely 280 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: a decision rooted in sports. He's never said anything remotely 281 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: comparable to I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet 282 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: Com which is what Muhammad Ali said. You do have 283 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: to be fair, you do have to compare generations. So like, 284 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: would Muhammad Ali be who he was if the endorsements 285 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: were dangling the way they're dangling, And that's a great question. 286 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe he never would have. Like Lebron is a 287 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: step up from Jordan's. Jordan wouldn't talk about anything, So 288 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: Lebron's a step up. He'll talk about things he's comfortable with, 289 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: but he will talk. Jordan wasn't comfortable with talking about 290 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: Ain't Steven I would? I would disagree, And that's an 291 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: interesting argument. You can argue that Jordan was a step 292 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: Lebron's a step up from Jordans. I actually disagree. I 293 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: think what Jordan represented was the goal of appealing to 294 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: everyone with the excellence of his talents. But he only 295 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,680 Speaker 1: wanted for his talents in basketball to be his calling card. 296 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: That is, to me different than Lebron, who I think 297 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: recognized that he was not going to ever reach the 298 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: six titles of Michael Jordan's or reach the elevated stature 299 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: worldwide of Michael Jordan's, and so about twelve or fourteen 300 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: years into his into his career, he pivoted and decided, 301 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to try to become a figure like Muhammad 302 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: Ali more than I'm going to be a figure like 303 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's. And as a result, they give both of 304 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: these guys. You can you give these guys, both of 305 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: these guys way too much credit. I don't. I don't 306 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: think they think about their brand in that way. I 307 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: think Jordan's just simply said, listened up until this point 308 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 1: in a black man wasn't speaking to white to white 309 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: people for endorsements just didn't happen. I mean, yes, there was, 310 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: there were small endorsements. O J. J had hurts other 311 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 1: than O J. Who who who, as alleged by Black 312 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: America like made himself white to do it. Um. But 313 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: but yeah, but yeah, no, and so it was enough 314 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,880 Speaker 1: of a challenge to be the everyman as a black 315 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: person in five um. And and so I don't think 316 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: he wanted to screw that up. Um but I don't. 317 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: But I think there's appeal there, right because Jordan. If 318 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 1: you wanted to kind of put Jordan in that context 319 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: of becoming an everyman pitch man whose race was not 320 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 1: integral to his overall appeal, that was also the case 321 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: with back in that those days, Eddie Murphy, will Smith 322 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: would later take that baton Bill Cosby, certainly in The 323 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: Cosby Show, which was revolutionary in the sense that it 324 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: portrayed a black American family as not that much different 325 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: than a white American family. Right, You're trying to appeal 326 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: to everyone, the idea being that we, despite our differences 327 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: of race or gender, ethnicity, whatever else, actually have a 328 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,119 Speaker 1: lot more in common than we do indifferent And I 329 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: think what Lebron has done is sliced and diced a 330 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: small segment of that population and said I'm gonna try 331 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: to fulfill and be the every man for this small group. 332 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: And I think that you may be right that it's 333 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: not a calculated decision. I tend to think there are 334 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: tons of branding people that are sitting around with these 335 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: guys trying to pitch them all day long on what 336 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: they think makes sense. Um and uh. And certainly social 337 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: media can complicate this because you have the ability to 338 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: make decisions kind of instantaneously. Um. And The idea with 339 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: social media, and I think you would agree, is that 340 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: authenticity matters more than anything. But if Lebron is going 341 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,920 Speaker 1: to sell this idea of a quality of everybody being 342 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,440 Speaker 1: on the same level of the importance of speaking truth 343 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: to power. That's kind of his brand now, right. He 344 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: certainly has basically just done what he said he would 345 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: never do, which is shut up in dribble for money. Yeah, no, 346 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: I I get it. I don't think I think, well, 347 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: well that makes sense. I don't think that's going to 348 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,119 Speaker 1: cost him. I don't. I don't think that's going to 349 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,119 Speaker 1: cost him. And the reason I said I thought Adam 350 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: Silver had a win was, you know, I do think 351 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: it was a win for for the business. And I'm 352 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: not trying to say that it was the it was 353 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: the right move. I just do think that, you know, 354 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: I had thought that that China wanted to win, and 355 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: I thought they'd lock him out of the arena. Known 356 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: would show up. They didn't lock him out of the arena, 357 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: and everyone showed up. Fox Sports Radio has the best 358 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,879 Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our 359 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 1: shows at Fox sports Radio dot com and within the 360 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. Search f s are to listen live. 361 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: I think China saying you can come play, but you 362 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: have to play by our rules, which means you can't 363 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 1: talk to the media, which means your players say nothing. 364 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: I think that's a win for China because it is 365 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: I mean, really, if you break it down, what actually 366 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: happened there. China told the NBA and their teams and 367 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: their biggest stars Lebron James, Adam Silver, Kyrie Irving, Anthony 368 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: Davis shut up and dribble, or you have to leave 369 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: our country and we're gonna money, and they did. I 370 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: think in the process of playing the game and not 371 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: walking away, I think Adam Silver felt like he had 372 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: to do what was right for business, and I think 373 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 1: from a business standpoint that was right. I also think 374 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: that you know, the people who I'm just I'm trying 375 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,159 Speaker 1: to look at this in a non emotional way, right like, 376 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: just from the business standpoint, and it's hard to do 377 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: that because of what China has done to its people. 378 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: But um, I think that he did make the right 379 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: move in being able to play the actual game despite 380 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 1: the fact, as he said that it was not on 381 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: TV there. Um he did not leave. He did not 382 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: leave because he basically was saying, we want to play 383 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: for you, we want to be here, even if it 384 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: was under their terms. Um, I think that I think 385 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 1: it was the right move from a business standpoint, and 386 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: I was told there were people who were trying to 387 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: tell him, no, we should go, we should go, and 388 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: he was absolutely insistent that they play the game. Yeah, 389 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: I disagree. I think that I think they should have gone. 390 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: Here here's what I would say. You asked a good question, 391 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: what's the impact when they come back to the United States, right, 392 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: because not like they're going to stay in China for 393 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 1: very long. Here's where I think this could be significant 394 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: for them. I think certainly when they start to try 395 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: to speak out again. Like let's say that I don't know, 396 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: I don't know where the next All Star Game is 397 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: going to be, but let's say it could happen. It 398 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't be stunning, right if in the state of Georgia, 399 00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: Like you may know where the next NBA All Star 400 00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,520 Speaker 1: Game is gonna be. I'm just gonna pick a state, Georgia. 401 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: Let's say that Georgia has an abortion but like they 402 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: have that abortion bill that Hollywood wasn't happy about, right 403 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it. And there was 404 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: talk about, oh, we're gonna pull our pull our resources 405 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: out of the state of Georgia because of the precedent 406 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: that they set with North Carolina. Anytime they're going into 407 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: a state that has a controversial political legislation in front 408 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 1: of it. Now people are gonna say, well, you pulled 409 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: out of North Carolina. If they decide to get involved 410 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: in that politically, the immediate response is going to be, dude, 411 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: you played games in China. You can't complain about any 412 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: existing state law anymore in the United States, no doubt, 413 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,440 Speaker 1: There is no doubt to me that that is accurate. 414 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: That is accurate that they that they have I agree 415 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,440 Speaker 1: with you, they have compromised their ability to really do 416 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: anything from a political maybe social standpoint now that you 417 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: can always bring up China. Not only that, like sorry, 418 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: you can line up. But the question is, I don't 419 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 1: think that costs them that much. That's that's where we differ. Yeah, 420 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get I'm gonna get to that in a seccause. 421 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: I do think also all this conversation, every single team 422 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: that wins, are you going to go to the White 423 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: House as long as Donald Trump is there? It's a discussion. 424 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: If the Lakers win the title, let's say, and Lebron 425 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: James tries to make a big statement by saying, I'm 426 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: not gonna go see that bum in the White House, 427 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 1: meaning Donald Trump, It's not going to have any residents anymore, 428 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: because immediately, even for people who support Lebron James, they're 429 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: gonna kind of have to nod their head and say, 430 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: but dude, you were willing to go play in China, 431 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: and you shut up and you said nothing. And then 432 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: you come back into America and you take advantage of 433 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: freedom of speech and the fact that there's no real 434 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: danger to your brand. You look like a hypocrite. Now 435 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: you went to China, but you wouldn't go to the 436 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: White House. Now, let me also say this, You know 437 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: as well as I do, that the NBA Finals bring 438 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: in a huge audience that isn't otherwise committed to the NBA. Right, 439 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: Like the die hard NBA fan I tend to agree 440 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: with you is probably not going to be very impacted 441 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: by this. Right, if you have season tickets, if you 442 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: like a particular team, if you like a particular player, 443 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: you're probably going to continue. But that's a relatively small 444 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: part of the American sporting audience. In fact, if you 445 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,400 Speaker 1: look at like the start of the NBA playoffs, four 446 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: or five million people might watch a big NBA playoff 447 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: game in the early rounds versus fourteen or fifteen million 448 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: who watch in the NBA Finals sometime up to you know, 449 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,399 Speaker 1: I think what happens is those are the people the 450 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 1: NBA has to be concerned about. And I do think 451 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: there are a lot of part and that a lot 452 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: of people in the middle part of the country. I 453 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,760 Speaker 1: live in Nashville. I think there are a lot of 454 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 1: people in the state of Tennessee who love basketball. I 455 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of people in the state of 456 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 1: Indiana who love basketball, State of North Carolina, normal middle 457 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,640 Speaker 1: of the road people who are going to be very 458 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: turned off by what they saw the NBA doing in China. Now, 459 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,760 Speaker 1: if they get a great, unbelievable series and they get 460 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: let's say, I don't know the two best teams that 461 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: could possibly play, and I don't even know who those 462 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: teams are right now, but they get Lebron in the finals, 463 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 1: and they get Lebron against somebody from the East who's valid, 464 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 1: maybe the strength of that overall series could matter. But 465 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 1: I do think they've lost people on the fringes who 466 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: are otherwise gonna watch Netflix, or who are otherwise gonna 467 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: watch Amazon Prime or the latest HBO show, and they'll say, 468 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:24,440 Speaker 1: screw it, I'm not gonna watch the n b A. 469 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: I didn't like the way they responded when they were 470 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: confronted with an issue in China. As an American, I 471 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: don't find the league response correct. I do think that 472 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: can impact at the fringes one or two, notch it, 473 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: I don't. I think I think they're h I think 474 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,920 Speaker 1: their risk is the Rockets because they happen to be 475 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: good and uh and I do think that that China 476 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: will as things have the potential to get better. I 477 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: think they're going to continue to blame the Rockets and yeah, 478 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: is not going to help. So I think they're you know, 479 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: from a from a world standpoint, I don't think Americans 480 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: are going to feel effected by this, even the casual 481 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,119 Speaker 1: fans on the fringes. I think that their concern has 482 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: to continue to be China, and if the Rockets are 483 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: really good and they're in the finals, it will hurt 484 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: them more. That's an interesting point that the Rockets are 485 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: there that the China might not even show it. Yes, right, 486 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: I mean now that could be a legitimate that could 487 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: be a legitimate concern if the Rockets are in the 488 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: NBA finals, and they could be if Russell, rest Brook 489 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: and James Harden go, well, um, what did you think 490 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: about the NBA? I guess it ended up being the 491 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: Houston Rockets cutting off questions now for players about China. 492 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: Do you think that will become commonplace? You know, I 493 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 1: think that, you know, with with Steve Kerr, I mean, 494 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: do we believe I'm not sure. I believe that Steve 495 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 1: Kerr doesn't have enough information. I do not believe that 496 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: he's too smartly. Yes, I do believe. I do believe 497 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: that players don't have enough information. Um and and so 498 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: I think they're legitimately worried about you know, what they're 499 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: gonna say or you know, and so they cut them off, 500 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: just like Clemson doesn't allow their football players to be 501 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: on social media. The same thing. Um, So yeah, it's 502 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: not it's not ideal, but I would rather than do 503 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: that than the Steve curR answer of you know, I 504 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: got to learn more, because I think they really do 505 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: need to learn more before saying something. Be sure to 506 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,719 Speaker 1: catch live editions about kick the Coverage with Clay Travis 507 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: week days at six am Eastern three am Pacific. We're 508 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: talking to Darren Ravelle. By the way, go follow him 509 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Darren Velle Love following him. We've known 510 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: each other for a long time. We don't always agree, 511 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 1: but that's one of the great things about living in America. 512 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 1: We don't have to on every single subject. So, uh, 513 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: it would not have this show in China. Would not 514 00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: have this show in China. Yes, in America. Now though Philadelphi, 515 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: you protesters chanting free Hong Kong escorted out of the arena. 516 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: Wells Fargo in d C. Last night, protesters show up 517 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: to support Hong Kong kicked out. Now they're Chinese teams 518 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: playing against American teams, So that's what's going on. How 519 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: much does the NBA have to be concerned that a 520 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: calculated attempt to make the NBA the focal point of 521 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: all protests could occur among activists in the United States 522 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 1: now because of the way the situation in China has 523 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: played out. Concerned, They do have to be concerned absolutely 524 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: that the NBA is just the right place to protest, because, 525 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: as you know, protesters go where they can be most effective, 526 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: can be heard the most. No, they're gonna get kicked out. 527 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: So listen. Having watched the video in Washington, Um, you 528 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: know the security guards were definitely told about this. I'm 529 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: not sure that that the Wizards or anyone was thinking 530 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: about it. I think the NBA has been so busy 531 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,479 Speaker 1: in China that they haven't figured out, you know, how 532 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: to put everything together. But the NBA has a group 533 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: called Team Bow, which is essentially all the teams are 534 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: competing against each other, but they all share information. And 535 00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: it's better than any other major league out there. And 536 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 1: I expect them to share information and and probably you know, 537 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: just do the best they can. And and probably and 538 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: I think that might mean allowing them, you know, because 539 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: if once you allow them to hold signs, and there's 540 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: not the video, the home video, you know, the cell 541 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: phone of the guy getting his free Hong Kong signs 542 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: uh uh taken away, then you make them powerless or 543 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: at least diminish. It's right, they need to conflict in 544 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: order to create a lot of attention. But the downside 545 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: is the downside is if these games are being streamed 546 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 1: into Hong Kong, I mean into China and into Hong 547 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: Kong and everywhere else, then the Chinese censors may well 548 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: say we can't have Chinese games airing here, and less 549 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: the n b A is going to be cutting out 550 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: the signs before it arrives to us. But how do 551 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: you do that with a live sporting event. The reason 552 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 1: why I bring it up is, you know this, they 553 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: will edit all different sorts of movies, right like the 554 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: Newest Avengers. They'll take out a couple of minutes that 555 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: they decide offends Chinese viewership, but they have the opportunity 556 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: to view that in advance with live sports. This seems 557 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: like it could be a real challenge to the NBA's 558 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: China partnership. If people underneath the baseline are allowed to 559 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: hold free Hong Kong signs up or sitting courtside, how 560 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: in the world do you handle that when somebody goes 561 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: to try to save a ball out of bounds and 562 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: the camera naturally follows the player and there's four people 563 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: in a row holding up free Hong Kong signs on 564 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: the front row. Right, Well, well listen, let me in 565 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: with this. Okay, this is I think this is the 566 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: most complex situation we've ever had in sports that an 567 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: executive of league has ever had to deal with. Okay, 568 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: it's when you look at Donald Sterling, there was one 569 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: choice to make. Um. Yeah, Pete Roselle made the wrong 570 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: decision with JFK when he got assassinated and going out 571 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 1: and playing games. And that's but there are so many 572 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: complexities to this. If Adam Silver sees the business, he's 573 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: being heartless, gutless, unethical. Uh. If the players don't talk, 574 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: they're losing their authenticity. They don't you now don't trust 575 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 1: them about caring about anything other than battles that they 576 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: can always win. Um. So this is gonna be from 577 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: a from a journalist standpoint, this is gonna be really 578 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: really interesting to cover and from a human standpoint too. 579 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: I mean, what happens is a player going to go 580 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: out on a limb this year, an NBA player when 581 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: things die down and it's not just basketball. Is a 582 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: team going to try to say all questions are about 583 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 1: basketball this year? Okay, fine, then we're not going to 584 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: talk about the team charity or what the guys doing 585 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: off the court. So there's so many tentacles for this 586 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: that uh, it's it is just going to be so 587 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,080 Speaker 1: fascinating to cover this, And I think her people are 588 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: going to be challenged. Executives, team executives are going to 589 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: be challenged. There is there is more to do off 590 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,960 Speaker 1: the court now than on the court. And um, we've 591 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 1: never seen anything like this. Last question for you, how 592 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,480 Speaker 1: does the NBA respond if a player writes free Hong 593 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: Kong on their sneakers or a player wants to come 594 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: out in a free Hong Kong T shirt like they 595 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: allowed other UH players to make statements about police brutality 596 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,400 Speaker 1: and whatnot. What do they do? Does the NBA have 597 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: to implement a policy here? Do you think somebody challenges 598 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: the you know the basically right now, what appears to 599 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: be almost an agreed upon silence on this issue. Will 600 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: someone challenge it? And if some what it on how 601 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 1: much the NBA you know, wants this business? It really does? 602 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:59,560 Speaker 1: It depends on whether Adam Silver wanted the business, did 603 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: not want a backdown, wanted to play, wanted to say 604 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: that China will still play, will agree to your rules. 605 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 1: But you know, obviously China is not going to want 606 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: those signs or those those statements on shirts for pregame 607 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: or anything like that for warm up um or on 608 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: a shoe that is played during the game. You know, 609 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: so I think that they're gonna they'll revisit it, they'll 610 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: figure it out, But I totally expect there to be 611 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,320 Speaker 1: some sort of formal policy that Adam Silver is not 612 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,640 Speaker 1: going to care if it gets out. They did they 613 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: people didn't talk about the fact that, you know, the 614 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,400 Speaker 1: NBA clearly put a quote of silence on these players. 615 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, coming out, we're gonna we're 616 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: gonna see what's behind the curtain. And and if Adam 617 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,359 Speaker 1: Silver doesn't want people to find out, I don't think 618 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: that's going to happen. But they're going to have to 619 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: make some really clear rules. And if you find out 620 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: that each player doesn't can't, can't have free Hong Kong 621 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: on them, and people are going to assault the NBA 622 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,320 Speaker 1: again and say they're you know, they're for money and 623 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: they're green the Chinese the Chinese government's rules because they 624 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,800 Speaker 1: just want to make money. And maybe Adam Silver is 625 00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,400 Speaker 1: gonna have to be okay with that. It is a 626 00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: challenge that the NBA has that the NFL, for one, 627 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: doesn't have, the NHL doesn't have, and certainly Major League 628 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: Baseball because the NBA has relied so much on creating 629 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: basketball as a global brand. I'm with you. I think 630 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: this is one of the most fascinating intersections of sports politics, culture. 631 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: Uh and beyond that, we have ever seen, and I 632 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,239 Speaker 1: certainly didn't see when the weekend started that this was 633 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 1: going to turn into the story that it has. Thank 634 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: you so much, Darren Ravelle for the time. I think 635 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: people are really going to enjoy this. Uh and good 636 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 1: luck to following the twist and turns as they continue 637 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,759 Speaker 1: to emerge. Clay, I had a lot of respect for you. 638 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 1: Always great to come on with you. That's Darren Ravelle. 639 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm Clay Travis. Special addition of the Wins and Losses 640 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: podcast discussing the wins and losses for the NBA as 641 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: it is dealt with China all week long. Thanks for 642 00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: listening to us. If you enjoyed this one, you'll enjoy 643 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 1: wait a lot of others as well. Again, this has 644 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,760 Speaker 1: been Winston Watson. I'm Clay Travis, and thank you for listening. 645 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 1: H