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Speaker 1: Good morning, everybody. Happy Friday, Emily, Ryan, Great to see

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Speaker 1: you guys.

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Speaker 2: Crystal Crystal for those who didn't see the behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: was Ryan's tech support this morning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty impressive and she nailed it.

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Speaker 1: Geek squad, yeap, got it worked right down.

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Speaker 3: Fixed we are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a woman of many talents. What can I say.

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Speaker 1: We've been calling these shows internally the mini show, but

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Speaker 1: they're increasingly sort of not really many shows, they're just

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Speaker 1: shows because of so much stuff that's going on. But

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Speaker 1: excited to get both of your reaction to Liberation Day

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Speaker 1: and you know, take your temperature as to how liberated

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Speaker 1: you're feeling on this Friday. Got a bunch of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of different stuff in regard to that, including new

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Speaker 1: jobs numbers that just came out, which actually came out

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Speaker 1: much stronger than expected, so that's kind of interesting. We

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Speaker 1: also have a new poll, hypothetical poll AOC versus Chuck

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Speaker 1: Shumer and for Senate she's deshrawing him, which is really interesting.

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Speaker 1: Made you turn about in terms of how the Democratic

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Speaker 1: base is feeling. Ryan also flag for us there's huge

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Speaker 1: protest plan for you know, from the Democratic base across

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Speaker 1: the country, a thousand different protests planned in you know,

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Speaker 1: nationwide locations. We've got a few national security advisors who

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Speaker 1: were officially lumored that U interesting developments there. And we're

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Speaker 1: also really looking forward to speaking to one of the

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Speaker 1: members of the legal team of that marilynd father who

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Speaker 1: was wrongly deported to the El Salvador prison. So she's

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Speaker 1: she actually represented him in that twenty nineteen hearing where

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Speaker 1: the judge ruled that he cannot be deported to El Salvador,

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Speaker 1: so she knows should know all the ins and outs

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Speaker 1: of like the gang accusations and what they were saying

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Speaker 1: and what the reality was, how the family's doing, all

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Speaker 1: of that sort of stuff. So definitely looking forward to that.

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Speaker 2: Good show. Like to your point about not calling these

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Speaker 2: mini shows, that's a lot of.

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Speaker 1: Crystal Yes, indeed. All right, so let's kick things off here.

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll start with the latest on the jobsts. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Trump has upended the entire global economy, so you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot to get to there. But we also had

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Speaker 1: the jobs report come out this this morning and it

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Speaker 1: actually crushed expectations two hundred twenty eight thousand. Unemployment rate

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Speaker 1: actually rose a little bit to four point two percent.

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Speaker 1: Joe Wisenthal here saying the economists had expected one hundred

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Speaker 1: and forty thousand jobs unemployment of four point one percent.

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Speaker 1: The reason that the unemployment rate actually ticked up is

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Speaker 1: because you had more people, higher workforce participations, so sort

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Speaker 1: of more people jumping into the market and trying to

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Speaker 1: find a job. Any reflections on that, guys, just before

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Speaker 1: we get into the latest Liberation Day fallout, I mean,

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Speaker 1: what the.

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Speaker 3: Business press was saying is that this was sort of

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Speaker 3: an interesting but meaningless round of numbers because people were

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Speaker 3: going to say, you know, if it was terrible, they

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Speaker 3: were going to say, oh, well, like one more reason

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Speaker 3: to sell. So terrible report would have been bad and

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Speaker 3: like would have been like another kind of another straw

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Speaker 3: on this camel's broken back. Yeah, but a good report

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Speaker 3: is discounted by the market because they're like, Okay, well

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Speaker 3: that was a good report in March. That was before

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Speaker 3: Liberation Day and the fall of Western civilization because of

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Speaker 3: the race in Wisconsin, supre Court race. So we're now

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Speaker 3: in a post Liberation Day, post Western civilization world. So

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Speaker 3: the things that happened before that, you know, don't don't

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Speaker 3: actually matter. So it staves off a little additional extra

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Speaker 3: sell off potentially, and but that's about it. And and

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Speaker 3: it it you know, it bakes in some hopes among

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Speaker 3: these folks that Trump is going to you know, uh,

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Speaker 3: you know, cock things up so badly that the Fed

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Speaker 3: will step in and and you know, lower interest rates

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Speaker 3: a whole bunch of times between now and the end

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Speaker 3: of the year and that and that that'll cushion some

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Speaker 3: of the blows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and that's kind of one of the high

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Speaker 1: IQ arguments for the terrorists is like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: all an effort to bring down interest rates so that

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Speaker 1: also when the US has to roll all of this debt,

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Speaker 1: that it will be at a lower interest rate. And

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Speaker 1: so we need to like destroy the entire economy so

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Speaker 1: that we can bring interest rates down as one of

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Speaker 1: the sort of like high IQ versions of the Trump

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Speaker 1: tariff thing. And it's nine point fifteen when we're recording

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Speaker 1: this right now. This is what you know, CNBC. You

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Speaker 1: got the ticker up here of the futures what they

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Speaker 1: look like. You know, yesterday obviously was pretty bad in

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Speaker 1: terms of the stock market, although to be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: I thought it could have been even worse. Given the

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Speaker 1: you know the nature of the tariffs, which are just

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Speaker 1: so astonishing and massive and obviously global, and saying in

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Speaker 1: my opinion and you know, we'll really have just I

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Speaker 1: think it's impossible to really gauge exactly what all the

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Speaker 1: fallout is ultimately going to be. But even with this

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Speaker 1: job's report now coming in higher than expected, obviously future

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Speaker 1: is still significantly down. And you know, China announced this

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Speaker 1: more learning or last night or sometime before I woke up,

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Speaker 1: that they were going to be retaliating with significant tariffs

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Speaker 1: of their own and targeting a few key American businesses

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Speaker 1: and industries in particular. So you know, the theory is

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Speaker 1: the markets are sort of reacting to that, and that's

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Speaker 1: why they're down even more than they already were yesterday.

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Speaker 2: Also, really sweet to see you and Kyle dming.

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Speaker 1: A lot of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, China's response to me suggests what

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Speaker 3: a difficult spot the US is in. Like I would

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Speaker 3: imagine that she and his advisors are almost paralyzed by

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Speaker 3: the sheer number of different effective ways they have to

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Speaker 3: screw us, and they have a unified system whereby they

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Speaker 3: can come up with an idea and then they can

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Speaker 3: execute on it, whereas in the United States we are

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Speaker 3: literally having chat GPT come up up with our plan.

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Speaker 3: So it's like chat GPT versus you know, she and

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Speaker 3: his economists. Yeah, when she and his economists are sitting

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Speaker 3: on massive piles of cash and the manufacturing capacity of

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Speaker 3: the world and the knowledge of the supply chains, and

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Speaker 3: they can you know, largely kind of guide a lot

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Speaker 3: of their companies. I've seen a lot of people say

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Speaker 3: that Trump's actual scheme here is He's going to destroy

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Speaker 3: the American economy, drive the prices down to bottom barrel,

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Speaker 3: and that he and his billionaire buddies are going to

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Speaker 3: buy up everything. I don't. I don't think that's right

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Speaker 3: at all. But I think what he might end up

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Speaker 3: doing is knock the price of everything way down, and

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Speaker 3: then she and his buddies come in with their companies

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Speaker 3: and buy everything up that they that that they can

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Speaker 3: get at a you know, steep discount.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well that's important to notee. You know, recessions, most people lose,

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Speaker 1: but not everybody loses. You know. Out of the financial crash,

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Speaker 1: there was a massive consolidation. Banks got bigger than ever.

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Speaker 1: It really was the kickoff of permanent capital being such

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Speaker 1: a massive player in terms of buying up housing, and

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Speaker 1: you know, these giant conglomerates becoming basically like America's landlord.

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Speaker 1: Out of the COVID crash, we all know that the

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Speaker 1: tech barons really consolidated a lot of power, Bezos, Zuckerberg, elon.

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Speaker 1: They all came out of the COVID crash massively wealthier

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Speaker 1: than before. And to your point about China, their markets

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Speaker 1: are not down all that much. They take it a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but nothing like what our markets are down,

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Speaker 1: which tells you that investors are betting that they're actually

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Speaker 1: going to be more or less okay out of this.

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Speaker 1: And you can start to see in the specific retaliation

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Speaker 1: that they picked. You know, it was not only okay, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to hit you with the same level of

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Speaker 1: tariff that you're hitting us. It was also we're going

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Speaker 1: to block you from being able to import some of

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Speaker 1: these rare earth minerals that are in you know, all

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Speaker 1: of our modern electronics and are really important. And that

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Speaker 1: China has been to your boy ride about the level

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Speaker 1: of planning for years and years, you know, consolidating their

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Speaker 1: control over some of those supply chains. So they are

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Speaker 1: certainly not powerless, to say the least emily in this situation.

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Speaker 2: No, they they aren't. And it's interesting because a lot

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Speaker 2: of this, uh well actually a lot of the like

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Speaker 2: Liberation Day predicate. I was going back and looking at

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Speaker 2: how people on the right talked about targeted tariffs in

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Speaker 2: the years leading up to Trump two point zero, and

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Speaker 2: it was always through the lens of national security, always

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Speaker 2: like there were that was the sort of justification for

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Speaker 2: protectionism that some of these think tanks like the Heritage

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Speaker 2: Foundation had for a really long time cast as socialist economics,

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Speaker 2: and uh, they've been such staunch champions of quote unquote

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Speaker 2: free trade, and as they were warming up to Trump

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Speaker 2: and acquiescing to Trump's hostile take of the Republican Party,

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Speaker 2: it was okay, targeted tariffs. You could do targeted near

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Speaker 2: shoring with Canada and Mexico, but it's because of national

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Speaker 2: security and the argument that national security is stronger in

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Speaker 2: these Just like a couple of weeks to come, we're

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Speaker 2: going to get a lot more clues as to whether

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Speaker 2: or not that's really the case. But a China that's

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Speaker 2: not significantly hampered by this.

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Speaker 3: That was the goal.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that was an explicit national security ambition of

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Speaker 2: tariffs that some of the people put forward before they

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Speaker 2: joined the administration.

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Speaker 1: Well, in some of the push to move manufacturing into

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Speaker 1: like Vietnam was also you know, okay, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: not near shoring New Mexico, are bringing jobs back to

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Speaker 1: the US, but this is the country that we have

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Speaker 1: better relations with than we feel more comfortable manufacturing there.

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Speaker 1: Vietnam just got hit with a gigantic tariff, so you know,

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Speaker 1: some of those prior efforts are also being completely undermined

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Speaker 1: by this. One of the things that's go ahead, right,

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Speaker 1: and just.

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Speaker 3: One little point, China is retaliating against us. We're doing

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Speaker 3: a trade war against the entire world, that's right, which

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Speaker 3: makes China's positions so much easier.

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Speaker 1: It's stronger, right, Like we're we're doing a trade war

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Speaker 1: against Lesotho and you know that don't even have inhabitants

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Speaker 1: in you know, some island that's largely like British and

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Speaker 1: American military that.

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Speaker 3: Like, and against people that I am be able to

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Speaker 3: help us in a trade war with China.

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Speaker 1: That's right, That's exactly right. And that was actually one

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Speaker 1: of the points that like Nate Silvert was making, is

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Speaker 1: are we really going to be negotiating with all one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ninety two countries or whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: we just tariffed. So yes, if it was a I mean,

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Speaker 1: I hate to just keep repeating myself, but if it

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Speaker 1: was focused, if it's you know, targeted particular industry or

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Speaker 1: even a particular country in terms of China, then you

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Speaker 1: can imagine a plan that where we could come out

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Speaker 1: on top, where there would be there would always be minuses,

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Speaker 1: potentially short term pain for sure, but there could be

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Speaker 1: something that was work fit on the other side. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm someone who thinks that tariffs can be useful and

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Speaker 1: important tool in certain instances. But the incredibly not just chaotic,

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Speaker 1: but you know, insane way that this is done across

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Speaker 1: the board and using chat GPT and pretending like a

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Speaker 1: trade deficit is the same as a tariff just makes

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Speaker 1: it impossible to imagine how this is ultimately going to

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Speaker 1: work out. And one of the things and on that

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Speaker 1: just I.

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Speaker 3: Think just might help people understand that because I see

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Speaker 3: a lot of people being like, we're getting screwed by

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Speaker 3: all these countries. It's like, imagine California and Oregon, like

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Speaker 3: they trade with each other now there's no tariffs because

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Speaker 3: they're united you know, there's states within the United States.

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Speaker 3: But I promise you that people in Oregon buy a

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Speaker 3: lot more stuff from California than people in California buy

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Speaker 3: from Oregon. So it would be like looking at that

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Speaker 3: situation and saying, oh wow, like there's a giant tariff

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Speaker 3: up that Oregon has on California. Right, It's like, no, no,

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Speaker 3: Oregon just doesn't make that much stuff. California makes an

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Speaker 3: enormous amount of stuff, right, That's how that's how trade works. Well,

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Speaker 3: so maybe that will help people understand that it's not

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Speaker 3: that they're setting up. Oregon is not screwing California in

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Speaker 3: a slight.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to call it a defense

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Speaker 2: of the administration because we haven't seen anything yet. But

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Speaker 2: them telling bessn't well, besn't going out and saying, you know,

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Speaker 2: these will be the higher end of the rate if

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Speaker 2: you don't retaliate, and then the White House saying that

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Speaker 2: is not the talking point, Like there are reports that

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Speaker 2: the White House was saying that do not include anything

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Speaker 2: about these being negotiating points. These are the final numbers

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Speaker 2: in your talking points. It's hard to imagine the Treasury secretary,

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Speaker 2: especially with something as sensitive as markets being literally off

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Speaker 2: the talking points, so like one eighty degree from what

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Speaker 2: you're supposed to be saying on that. But I like

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Speaker 2: some of these random, completely random tariffs. I wonder if

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Speaker 2: they like didn't take them seriously, because they don't take

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Speaker 2: them seriously, and if you are the Soto or someone else,

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Speaker 2: maybe Trump just wants to have it look like he

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Speaker 2: was doing eighty deals and successfully negotiated with all of

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Speaker 2: these different countries. So but the like we'll see, I

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Speaker 2: genuinely have no idea. I don't think anybody has any idea.

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Speaker 1: But the I don't think best has any idea. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like he was completely clueless and terrified in all of

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Speaker 1: those interviews. They're like, so are you going to go

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Speaker 1: to China and talk to him? He's like, nothing on

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Speaker 1: the calendar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting idea, but that's the the USMCA exemptions,

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Speaker 2: and what happens with that is pretty critical to what happens.

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Speaker 2: We used to be China obviously, so you know, if

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Speaker 2: you're you're going to be terrifying the hell out of

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Speaker 2: Canada and Mexico in order to rebalance those relationships at

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Speaker 2: the same time as you're trying to rebalance the relationship

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Speaker 2: with China, the economic relationship with China for national security concerns,

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Speaker 2: then you have to look very differently at your relationship

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Speaker 2: with Canada Mexico, which Besson also said, he got Caitlin

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Speaker 2: Collins and said they're USMCA exemptions, but that's going to

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Speaker 2: be renegotiated. So who the hell knows?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and I said this in the show yesterday.

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Speaker 1: But just to drill down on the point Ryan was

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Speaker 1: making to help people understand, like why a trade deficit

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Speaker 1: is not the same as a tariff and does not

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Speaker 1: necessarily represent a country screwing US our noeb but trend

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Speaker 1: lay down the example of Lesotho. This is an incredibly

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Speaker 1: poor country in Africa. They're actually part of a regional

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Speaker 1: trading block that has uniform tariff policy. So in theory

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Speaker 1: you would think, okay, well, South Africa and Lesotho part

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Speaker 1: of this trading block, have uniform teriff policy, so they

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Speaker 1: should be getting hit with the same level of tariff, right, No,

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Speaker 1: South Africa's is far lower. Why because we do actually

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Speaker 1: import a significant for that country and a significant amount

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Speaker 1: of mostly diamonds and other sort of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: raw materials, and this is a poor country. So the

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Speaker 1: people there, they don't have the money to buy things

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Speaker 1: like iPhones and Tesla's from our market. So does that

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Speaker 1: mean that they're screwing us, No, it just means, you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's not like we have a domestic diamond market

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Speaker 1: that we need to protect and gin up here. And

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Speaker 1: that's the other part of this. One of the other

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Speaker 1: parts of this that makes no actual economic sense is

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Speaker 1: that there are certain things that we just literally can't

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Speaker 1: produce here. We don't have diamond mines, that's just how

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Speaker 1: it is, right. We cannot grow bananas outside of a

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Speaker 1: few locations, we cannot grow coffee beans outside of a

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Speaker 1: few locations. Something like fifty percent of our fruits and

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Speaker 1: vegetables come from other markets. And so when you're doing

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Speaker 1: this across the board, not only across the board, with

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Speaker 1: countries across the board, with all of these different products,

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Speaker 1: all you're doing is creating a massively regressive tax. And

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Speaker 1: that's the other part of this that is wild that

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Speaker 1: I don't think people should just let go is the

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Speaker 1: President has claimed for himself the single handed ability to

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Speaker 1: completely upend our economy. The global economy. You know, these

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Speaker 1: are powers that are supposed to be in the hands

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Speaker 1: of Congress. You know, they're supposed to be the person

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Speaker 1: raising revenue that is supposed to go through Congress. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jeff Stein was pointing out, he was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, most experts that I'm talking to you are

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Speaker 1: saying that they probably legally are going to go through

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Speaker 1: because the courts have taken a very permissive attitude towards presence,

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Speaker 1: ability to declare national emergencies or natural security situations or

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Speaker 1: whatever and do what they want in the sphere of tariffs.

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Speaker 1: But compare that to Biden's like comparatively pitdling student loan

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Speaker 1: debt relief that gets struck down by the courts, and

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Speaker 1: you have a you know, you just have a very

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Speaker 1: remarkable situation. And I think it's also fair to say, like,

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Speaker 1: and I believe that the tariff regime that Trump has

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Speaker 1: announced is less about a particular economic outcome and more

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Speaker 1: about him consolidating more control for himself. And that comes

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Speaker 1: not only from the extraordinary nature of the tariff's largest

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Speaker 1: tax hike, probably in US history, highest level of tariffs,

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Speaker 1: uh since you know, it is much higher even than

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Speaker 1: the Smoot Holly Tariff Act, which vastly exacerbated the Great Depression.

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Speaker 1: But not only from just like that exercise of power,

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Speaker 1: but also now every company, every country in the world,

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Speaker 1: every industry, they all have to go on bended me

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Speaker 1: to the dear leader and beg and plead their case,

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Speaker 1: which is precisely why these powers were supposed to be

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Speaker 1: with Congress, because that ryan is the way that a

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Speaker 1: king operates. It's not supposed to be the way that

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Speaker 1: a president ultimately operates.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they there's a chance they might end

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Speaker 3: up taking the powers away from him if if he

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Speaker 3: abuses them too seriously and we see too much pain

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Speaker 3: going around. I could because the Congress or Congress, Yeah Congress,

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Speaker 3: because you saw me, they would need probably two thirds,

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Speaker 3: a two thirds vote because obviously Trump is otherwise.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Right, So I mean, this is imagining a world in

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Speaker 3: which you know, we've seen not just you know, twenty

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Speaker 3: thirty percent come off the markets. You know, that's those

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Speaker 3: that's still the market. But you start seeing you know,

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Speaker 3: manufacturing plants close and like auto automakers layoff workers, still lants,

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Speaker 3: and I think just laid off a thousand people yesterday,

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Speaker 3: so if you start seeing like significant manufacturing industry layoffs

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Speaker 3: and it's cutting against his the notion that he's bringing

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Speaker 3: manufacturing back, then then I don't know, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: if I don't know if there is anything that breaks

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Speaker 3: the hold.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, oh, I was gonna say. This is the

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Speaker 2: benefit of what Krystal was just laying out, Trump consolidating.

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Speaker 2: I mean, other presidents have used these powers, but Trump

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Speaker 2: using them more boldly than anyone in recent memory. The

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Speaker 2: benefit from his perspective is that he can then cut

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Speaker 2: these deals immediately to back off and try to course correct.

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Speaker 2: He can just call up the folks in the Soto

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Speaker 2: and say like, ah, you guys, you know you're such

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Speaker 2: great partners. We're taking this right down. You know. He's

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Speaker 2: able to like operate on his whims, which is absolutely

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Speaker 2: for any president, terrifying amount of power. It should belong

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Speaker 2: with Congress. It's an Article one power. But the presidential

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Speaker 2: emergency declarations have ye held up in courts to that point.

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Speaker 2: So I think you're right. There's something that he enjoys

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Speaker 2: about being the guy who gets to have the final

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Speaker 2: decision on such a significant basis because he feels like

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Speaker 2: he's coarse correct. I mean, this is Trump's deepest ideological commitment.

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Speaker 2: He's generally more transactional than ideological, except for tariffs and immigration,

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Speaker 2: and so this is you know, whether he ultimately backs

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Speaker 2: down from a significant terariff for jam, I think is unlikely,

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Speaker 2: but he's able to. He probably thinks he'll be able

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Speaker 2: to do carve out type deals with the sort of

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Speaker 2: flick of a pen or the picking up of a phone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I've seen Matt, like Matt Stolar for instance,

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Speaker 3: has been out there saying, like, you know, people on

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Speaker 3: the left need to stop just sounding like CNBC or

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Speaker 3: MSNBC and freaking out at this, like you have to understand,

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Speaker 3: like Trump has a legitimate argument about the nature of

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Speaker 3: global trade imbalances and the way that it is screwed

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Speaker 3: up the middle class over the last fifty years and

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Speaker 3: and undermined our ability to produce anything to an extent

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Speaker 3: that you know, when there was a pandemic, if we

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Speaker 3: hadn't gotten the supply chains going, we wouldn't have had masks, right,

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Speaker 3: we could, we could, we could barely make like you know, soap.

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Speaker 3: You know, they could, they couldn't. They couldn't make any

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Speaker 3: of the ppe that we needed agree with that, But

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Speaker 3: to me, you don't get points for your virtue and

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Speaker 3: for your correct analysis if what you implement doesn't really

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Speaker 3: have a chance of working. And the reason it doesn't

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Speaker 3: have a chance of working is that we're we're still

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Speaker 3: a capitalist system, which allows you know, capitalists to decide

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Speaker 3: where they're going to invest their money. The state doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Maybe it should, but the state does not direct in

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Speaker 3: any considerable amount of investment. And so if you're an

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Speaker 3: investor right now, like, on the one hand, okay, it

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Speaker 3: looks like it's going to be cheaper to relatively cheaper

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Speaker 3: to you know, sell things to American consumers if I

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Speaker 3: build them right here in America. Is that going to

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Speaker 3: be the case two weeks from now, Yeah, that's true.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. And if you don't know, do you

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Speaker 3: drop a one point five billion dollar investment in a

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Speaker 3: Wisconsin factory. Well, Trump's point is advanswer that is, no,

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Speaker 3: you don't unless you have some some sense of stability

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Speaker 3: long term.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the flip side of the coin.

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Speaker 2: And Trump would say the uncertainty is the only thing

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Speaker 2: that gets them to do that, because they're so on

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Speaker 2: Trump is the main take the bet on Trump.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, like it's going to take them longer to

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Speaker 3: get the deal together that then the policies will be

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Speaker 3: in place. There'll be new policies in like three days,

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Speaker 3: that's right then, and the new ones after that, and

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Speaker 3: the new ones after that.

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Speaker 1: Right, So no one would expect that. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: should in theory be Trump's last term in office. No

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Speaker 1: one is going to think that the next president is

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Speaker 1: going to continue with this particular terriff rut.

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Speaker 3: You're just getting your factory online in like two years,

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Speaker 3: and now Trump's a lame duck, and like that's the problem. Like,

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Speaker 3: if you want to do this, go to Congress and

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Speaker 3: do an industrial policy and buy in, get buy in

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Speaker 3: from the American people and Democrats, like Democrats, you want

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Speaker 3: to build factories in the United States, Democrats, all they're

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Speaker 3: going to ask for is uh, as you know, Barat

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Speaker 3: talked about day care in the factory and and union wages.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is that we could do?

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Speaker 2: We could?

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Speaker 3: Is that so bad?

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Speaker 1: You know? This? Also one of the things that bothers

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Speaker 1: me about this teriff for is that I actually do

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Speaker 1: think it is going to negatively polarize many people against

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Speaker 1: Tariff's period, and I think that is terrible, and it

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Speaker 1: comes at a time when there wasn't increasing there was

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Speaker 1: a bipartisan consensus in favor of targeted industrial policy, and

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Speaker 1: Trump could rightly take credit for helping to create that

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Speaker 1: shift in public policy. I mean, terroris in industrial policy

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Speaker 1: were like, you know, seeing a knuckle dragging kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff in the neoliberal era. And Trump comes in, he

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Speaker 1: does his China terrorists. I supported them, Ryan, I suspect

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Speaker 1: you probably did as well. Yeah, and then Biden keeps

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00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: them largely in place, expandes that but couples it with

435
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: actual industrial policies. So in truth, Biden's version of it

436
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 1: was much more successful than Trump's version. You can see

437
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: that with the you know, the.

438
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 3: Chips, and Trump's had some positive impacts on manufacturing and yeah, yeah,

439
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 3: and so I.

440
00:23:58,200 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: Drove through the Fox cun Cam.

441
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 3: Oh boy, that was Scott Walker.

442
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was that was a major l But put it.

443
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,920
Speaker 1: Let's put that aside. But you know, there was this

444
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: true bipartisan consensus in favor of targeted industrial policy, and

445
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: we're more, vastly more needed to be done. But Trump

446
00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: seems to have this idea that if you just put

447
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: in place this giant terror regime. Everything is going to

448
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: magically happen after that. And Ryan, you're so correct that

449
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 1: he is not factoring into this the fact that number one,

450
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:34,880
Speaker 1: the rest of the world is going to get a say,

451
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 1: and number two that you're still relying on capital and

452
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: trying to figure out their incentives. And from the best

453
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 1: we can tell, like their incentives are just going to

454
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: be Okay, We're just not going to do really anything

455
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: for the next couple of years. See how this shakes out.

456
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be hiring, you know. I mean, even thinking

457
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: about our little business, the way that we're going to

458
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 1: be impacted by this. It's like, I'm not taking on

459
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: big new risks right now because at.

460
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 3: Drop site, because of people's so like the subscription base

461
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: and the donation base, Like we could add a couple

462
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 3: of people right now, but but we're not going to

463
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 3: because we're probably going to see a downturn.

464
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

465
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 3: And and companies like well we're a nonprofit, uh, But

466
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 3: to organizations like hours and and like breaking points, you know,

467
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,160
Speaker 3: they get hit in a recession because if you lose

468
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: your job, it's like, hey, I'd love to, you know,

469
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 3: help you guys out. I support the journalism that you're doing,

470
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: but I'm going to watch the free clips on YouTube

471
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,760
Speaker 3: and I'm going to read the free stuff.

472
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, family, not at all.

473
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 3: Obviously. If it's a choice between you know, making your

474
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 3: bills and this, like this has got to go.

475
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I would choose my premium subscription over feeding children.

476
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 4: But that's just.

477
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 3: Depends on children.

478
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: One of the things that's wild to me is like

479
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,239
Speaker 1: people are going to get hurt by this. You know,

480
00:25:56,359 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: it's it's a massive thing that Trump has just done,

481
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: like insanely massive. And is he in the you know,

482
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 1: the like economic situation room, crunching the numbers, seeing what

483
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: the market reaction is, making deals whatever. No, he's like

484
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: I think it's going well, and then he's off to

485
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 1: play golf. Like this is so what. I just I

486
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 1: cannot comprehend the mentality of someone who is so casual

487
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: about doing something that is such a nuclear bomb around

488
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: the world. I mean, so here, you know, Jake shrim

489
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: President Trump leaving today for Florida, where he will attend

490
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 1: the Live Golf Tour dinner at his Durrell Country club.

491
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: Here he is yesterday getting asked about like, hey, the

492
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: markets are completely shitting the bed. Are you, like, you know,

493
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: good with this? Like, how are you feeling about this?

494
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what he has to say.

495
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 2: The markets today our way down. We're saying here.

496
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 5: So how can I think it's going very well?

497
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,240
Speaker 3: It was an operation, like when a patient gets operated

498
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 3: on and it's a big thing.

499
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 2: I said, this good.

500
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: Exactly, so he they love this. It's you know, an operation,

501
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: it's a patient. The operation went well. But yeah, he

502
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: thinks he thinks it's going great.

503
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: And if I thought a few years from now this

504
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 3: was going to turn around American manufacturing and production, like

505
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 3: I'd be like, that's the coolest thing ever. Yeah, based

506
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: like go for it, like yes, like it's it's going

507
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: to short term pain, long term gain. I just don't

508
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: see the long term gain.

509
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: Well, we understand well and also sorry Emily, it just

510
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: really quickly is we Also? I agree with that, Ryan,

511
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree with that, But we also can't be

512
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: cavalier about this is a massive regressive tax, massive regressive tax.

513
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: At the same time as it's not like you know,

514
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 1: when he did tarifs in his first term, farmers got

515
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: hurt and they had a big program to reimburse them.

516
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: There's none of it. It's the total opposite of that

517
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: at this point where you you know, can't get a

518
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: hold of somebody at Social Security so you can get

519
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: your benefits there. Republicans widely expected to cut Medicaid and

520
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: they're also widely expected to give on a giant tax cut.

521
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: So the you know, one of the theories they're trying

522
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: to get the deficit down and do these things, well, no,

523
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: they're about to blow up the deficit more than they

524
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: ever abb of war, and so you're doing austerity at

525
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 1: the same time that you're expecting people to be able

526
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: to shoulder this massive regressive tax hike at a time

527
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: when they already were Inflation was the number one issue

528
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: for people, like prices. They already feel so stretched because

529
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: prices have been high, and that's what he was elected

530
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: on was to deal with those prices. So while I agree,

531
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: if there was like you know, okay, and we're gonna

532
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: it's really going to reindustrialize middle class jobs, like bring

533
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: back the heartland of America and people are going to

534
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: be able to you know, have this like solid union

535
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: middle class job the way things were, Like okay, that's

536
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: worth exchanging some short term pain for but you also

537
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 1: have to help people to get through that period. And

538
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: there's first of all, it's just short term pain and

539
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: long term pain. And second of all, there is none

540
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: of that policy happening to help people who are truly

541
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: going to be hurt, whether it's regular ordinary people, businesses,

542
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 1: et cetera. In the interim to get to that theoretical

543
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: promised promised land.

544
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that the tax cut situation is

545
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 2: going to be completely crazy, but maybe they come up

546
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 2: with something. I have no idea. It doesn't seem like it.

547
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: Josh Holly said he went to the White House yesterday

548
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 2: in secure commitments from Trump not to touch medicator social

549
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: security again. We will see. There's a White House statement

550
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 2: on the jobs report that says, quote, the economy is

551
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: starting to roar, with a strong two hundred and twenty

552
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: eight thousand jobs out in the month of March, well

553
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: ahead of the market's expectation. There's also a sharp increase

554
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,960
Speaker 2: in transportation, construction, and warehousing employment. The President's pushed on

555
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 2: short jobs here in the United States is working. The

556
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 2: Golden Age of America is on its way.

557
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 3: Awesome.

558
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 2: Good luck with that.

559
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: The Gilded Age actism, Golden Age. Not so sure about

560
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: that one Yielded age definitely, And I mean that is

561
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: their model. Is that era, the Gilded Age is the

562
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: era that he says he's modeling these policies to achieve.

563
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 2: I think it gets to your point about the not

564
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: just the optics, because it's beyond optics. It's this optimism

565
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 2: from multi multimillionaires and billionaires as markets are completely volatile

566
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: and people are worried about their savings, they're worried about

567
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: their month to month that I think politically is going

568
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: to be incredibly difficult for the administration to continue pulling off.

569
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: Yeah. I was talking to a friend last night who

570
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: the couple is a teacher and a federal worker, and

571
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 3: they would they've been doing a little house rehab, like

572
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 3: a kitchen in a bedroom, and she said that she

573
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: just went to order like the sink and the couch

574
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: and stuff. And I was like, well, first of all,

575
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 3: you guys are morons, Like Trump told you a month

576
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: ago Liberation Day was coming. Yeah, you should have ordered

577
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 3: it stuff. She's like she went back and looked and

578
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: like a bunch of stuff was like already already up,

579
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 3: like one hundred bucks two on her bucks, Like the

580
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: catch had not moved yet, it was the same price

581
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 3: as before, so she like immediately like you purchase on that. Yeah,

582
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: but like things are moving, like people are. This is

583
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: not all just the the Dow jumping jumping around, like

584
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 3: these price sikes are coming.

585
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I respond to that a little bit, Ryan,

586
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: because that's been the other you brought up Stiller before.

587
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: I've seen him and others being like, well, the stock market,

588
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, this isn't really an important economic metric, so

589
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: stop obsessing over it. And by the way, what it's

590
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: down to like where it was in the fall or

591
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: something that's really no big deal. How do you look

592
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: at that?

593
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 3: I think that's fine. Yeah, Like if you're doing big,

594
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 3: long term, huge structural things that are going to benefit

595
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: the the real economy and you know that and Wall

596
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 3: Street has a has a panic attack and and takes off,

597
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 3: like like Stoller said, there was this big you know,

598
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 3: uh drive up in prices after Trump won because as

599
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 3: Jeff Stein keeps pointing out, the Wall Street does not

600
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 3: have a subscription to newspapers, like they don't actually they

601
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 3: don't actually read the Washington Post or like the other

602
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: papers that have been telling them very clearly that this

603
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 3: is what Trump's doing. They're like, no, Trump, He's not

604
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 3: really going to do this, no way. So they artificially,

605
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: you know, drove up the price of equities and now

606
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 3: they're shaving that off. So like that's fine, Like I'm

607
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 3: i'm I'm on board with that kind of broad stolar

608
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 3: critique to to a degree, Like there is a level,

609
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: there is a level of correction at which counterparties start

610
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: getting affected and you you start to see a you know,

611
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 3: a seize up in in liquidity and ability of of

612
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 3: you know, businesses to like access capital, it becomes a problem.

613
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 3: But this kind of stuff, if if it's if it's

614
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: good for the patient, you know, fine, like you know,

615
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 3: run run a little fever killed that killed that virus,

616
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 3: but it's your This this to me is the equivalent

617
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 3: of like bleeding, like the way that they used to

618
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 3: bleed patients in this in like the seventeenth and eighteenth

619
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, you're probably a little bit of bleeding

620
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: is probably not gonna actually hurt you that much. And

621
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 3: if it was actually going to make you better, then sure,

622
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: go for it. But it wasn't like that that was wrong.

623
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 3: So this is the wrong bleeding. So yeah, okay, little

624
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: bit of bleeding, you can survive.

625
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 1: But also it was like they're getting out the bad,

626
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: bad stuff, the bad blood.

627
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: Or blood was too hot maybe I don't know. Yeah, yeah,

628
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: And Washington had like four doctors and they all bled

629
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: him and he died of losing too much blood. Yeah.

630
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 3: So if you lose too much blood and the stock

631
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: market loses too much blood, you know, it can it

632
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: can be a problem. But yeah, that's what the real

633
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 3: problem is. Yeah, actual prices for sinks are going up

634
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: like right now, right and when people's washing machines break,

635
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 3: they need they need a new one.

636
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: Well Mark Cuban was out yesterday. Like, go to Costco,

637
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: go to Sam's Club, stock up, like whatever storage space

638
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: you have by phil with whatever, you know, non perishable consumables.

639
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: You can bet toilet paper's going to be disappearing from

640
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: shelves at a store near you very shortly. But Emily,

641
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: on the other hand, he does have fantastic spokespeople like

642
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,759
Speaker 1: Howard Lutnick, who are making the case here. I mean,

643
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: would you say that.

644
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: I just took a sip of coffee my leftop.

645
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: You know, and This is the other part of it,

646
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 1: is like the argument that I saw from the cable

647
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: news heads yesterday was just basically like, trust Trump because

648
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: he knows what he's doing. And that's certainly what what

649
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: Lutnik was saying yesterday. I've got a great Janine Piro

650
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: clip I could show as well. But let's go ahead

651
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 1: and take a listen to Lutnick and how he was

652
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: pitching this.

653
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: Let Donald Trump run the global economy.

654
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 3: He knows what he's doing.

655
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 4: He's thirty five years. You gotta trust Donald Trump in

656
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:06,520
Speaker 4: the White House. That's why they put him there.

657
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: Let him fix it, I understand book.

658
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 4: Let him fix it.

659
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 6: The thirty six trillion dollar deficit, right is going to

660
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 6: ruin our children's lives and our grandchildren's lives.

661
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 4: Let Donald Trump fix the American economy. Follow up with you.

662
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: So that's you know, we're just about to put our

663
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,279
Speaker 1: faith in the great leader. Howard Lutnick certainly has. There

664
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,919
Speaker 1: are others many others who who feel the same way.

665
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: Emily that and you just, you know, just trust in

666
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 1: Trump and he'll he'll work it out.

667
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 2: Okay, But that quote, let Donald Trump run the global

668
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 2: economy is a completely insane thing to say, but in

669
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: true Trumpian fashion, it really is saying the quiet part

670
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 2: out loud and so proudly too. I mean, American presidents

671
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 2: wield the power basically to run the global economy, much

672
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: to the chagrin of many people and the rest of

673
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 2: the world. And he's just like, this is a wonderful thing.

674
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 2: Let the dear leader run the global economy. It's just

675
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: an insane way to approach it. But it's really what

676
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 2: we have right, Like this is given that best is

677
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,919
Speaker 2: off of the Trump talking points on something so significant.

678
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know that his closest advisors actually

679
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 2: understand where he could take this, where he plans to

680
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: take this. I think that is entirely intentional. And so

681
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 2: the American people are left with the option of trusting

682
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. It's really their only talking point. Because we

683
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: can all agree, like the three of us from the

684
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: left and the right, on what's happened and the need

685
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: for probably some tariffs, like we can probably all get

686
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: to the table and think that through and Chips Act

687
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 2: and all of that, But this particular execution of bringing

688
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 2: jobs back to United States, of rebalancing global trade, the

689
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 2: only thing you can do because there's so much uncertainty

690
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 2: and so much bizarre tactical maneuvering. Is just say, let's

691
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: how it all turns out, okay, And that is going

692
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 2: to wear very thin, very quickly politically for them. And

693
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 2: it's also just like as people are making decisions about

694
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: kitchen renovations, kind of a it's kind of a fucked

695
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 2: up thing to do to people.

696
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 3: And Trump had a revealing and related remark yesterday where

697
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 3: he said the problem with the bringing on income tax

698
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,600
Speaker 3: is that it made the American people fund the American

699
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 3: government rather than foreign countries, which should be funding the

700
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 3: American government. And you're like, okay, well that analysis is

701
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: like completely insane because like it's actually you know, people

702
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 3: eventually pay the tariffs. But but like hold on record,

703
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 3: scratch reverse a second. You think that in an ideal world,

704
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:50,919
Speaker 3: foreign countries are funding the American government, It's like what right?

705
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 3: What do you mean? Like could you unpack that for us?

706
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,920
Speaker 3: Like why why would they fund us? Like why don't

707
00:37:57,920 --> 00:37:58,760
Speaker 3: they fund themselves?

708
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 1: Like that you touch on some tribute important though, I

709
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 1: mean because part of the alliance with Trump and capital,

710
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: which is verily, very firmly entrenched this time around it

711
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: does go back to that you know, McKinley utopia that

712
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: he keeps referencing and and did on the campaign trail.

713
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 1: You know, I went back during that time, like brushed

714
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: up on my McKinley history. Is not a guy that

715
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: I like particularly studied all that much. And the whole

716
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 1: reason that the income tax was introduced is so you

717
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: could have a progressive tax, so that rich people, so

718
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: that capital could you know, would be the ones who

719
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 1: bore more of the burden of funding the government. That

720
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: was the whole idea. But now our income tax is

721
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,759
Speaker 1: not all that progressive at this point. We can tell

722
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: that's a whole other can of worms, But that's the idea.

723
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: Tariffs are deeply progressive. So what in practice this is

724
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: not going to mean that foreign governments are funding our

725
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: government for us, thank you very much, China, thank you

726
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 1: very much, eu Fan, thank you very much, Canna or whatever.

727
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: It's going to mean that more of the burden of

728
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: funding our government falls on working class people and less

729
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: of it, even less of it than currently falls on

730
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 1: the rich, is going to fall on the rich, which

731
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: of course consistent with the tax plan, and why you

732
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: should never when these people talk about how they have

733
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: to get the deficit under control. You should never take

734
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 1: them seriously so long as one of their main economic

735
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 1: priorities is extending the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, which

736
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: is a four trillion dollar tax cut for the wealthy

737
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: and is going to greatly exacerbate our debt and deficit.

738
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,720
Speaker 1: So you know, like how much of this Trump knows

739
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: or how much his view of tariffs is just like

740
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 1: this sort of like kindergarten level. Because also some of

741
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: the things that he his priorities are directly at odds

742
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: with each other. Maintaining the dollar as the world reserve

743
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: currency is directly at odds with eliminating the trade deficit

744
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: because you need the world to need dollars, and so

745
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, those things don't fit together. The idea that

746
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: these are going to fund the government also doesn't make sense.

747
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: If everything's being reshored, then you're not going to be

748
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 1: getting teriff revenue. Right that you get this back and

749
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 1: forth of oh, he's just a great negotiator and these

750
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: are just a starting point. Actually the direction is to

751
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: bring all terrifts to zero. That's some of the cope

752
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 1: from the like you know, the chamber type Republicans, is

753
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 1: this is actually a tool to get the teriffs to zero,

754
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 1: you know, And it's like, well, I cont of that.

755
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 1: You should have just done TPP back in the day.

756
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: You know, they were on a track with a bunch

757
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: of Asian specific countries to go exactly in that direction.

758
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: And then you know Trump is out there. No, no, no,

759
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 1: this is the final offer. So all of it is

760
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: very confused, which is why for me, the easiest lens

761
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: to view it through is the same lens as the

762
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 1: tax on universities, the tax on the media, the tax

763
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: on the law firms, the tax on free speech, the

764
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 1: attacks on protesters, which is a power consolidation play. He

765
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: is a ceo. He is used to thanking every decision

766
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: and everyone jumping to his back and call. And that

767
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: is the way that autocratic ceo dictatorial style. That is

768
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: how he wants things to be, and increasingly he is

769
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: accomplishing that.

770
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: I think if if you could, if the president could

771
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: move tax rates unilaterally but had to go to Congress

772
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 3: for tariffs, he'd be out here moving tax rates up

773
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 3: and down. Yeah, Like you know, once a week I.

774
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: Give people ideas you can declare some type of emergency.

775
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 3: The historical irony by the way to pick up on

776
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 3: your McKinley point. McKinley was that in a long running

777
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 3: war with the Prairie populist movement and one of their

778
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 3: main things that they hated was tariffs because it drove

779
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: up their costs and it killed them. Yeah, so that

780
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 3: our new populace is embodying too McKinley, right, and the

781
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 3: enemy of the old populists is amazing.

782
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

783
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 1: Completely. And actually when McKinley was assassinating, he was giving

784
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: a speech announcing that he was rolling.

785
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 3: Back gone with them, Yes, caris because.

786
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: The world needed to train and we needed to move forward,

787
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: and that was an old economic model. So even McKinley

788
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 1: at the end realized the error of something.

789
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: The shooter there, I guess you know it was Antifa.

790
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: We're taking this anti Yeah, So we've all been following

791
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: the story. Trump administration admitted this week that they made

792
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: a quote administrative error and deported a Maryland father to

793
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: that El Salvador prison in spite of the fact that

794
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: a judge had ruled he could not be deported to

795
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: El Salvador. The administration, in spite of admitting this administrative error,

796
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: have still maintained that you know he should have been deported.

797
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 1: They also have maintained that there is nothing at this

798
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: point that the courts can do to bring him back,

799
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: even though they acknowledge this error. So we're very lucky

800
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: to be joined this morning by part of the legal

801
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: team uh for this man. His name is Kilmo Abrego

802
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:04,360
Speaker 1: Garcia and her name is Lucia Curiel, and she represented

803
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: him in a twenty nineteen hearing where the judge originally

804
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: ordered said he cannot be deported to El Salvador in that,

805
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 1: of course, is exactly where he is now. Welcome, so

806
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,280
Speaker 1: glad to have you, Yes.

807
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 4: Thank you.

808
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: So, first of all, did I get all of the

809
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 1: pieces there right? And can you just give us the

810
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: timeline of his entrance into the country and you know,

811
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: his interactions with the legal system, and especially address the

812
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: allegations that he has been a gang member or in

813
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: the words of I think Caroline Levitt, the a White

814
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 1: House Press secretary, a MS thirteen gang leader.

815
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 4: Yes, so he you know, he was born in Alsavador.

816
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 6: He fled the country when he was around sixteen years old,

817
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 6: entered the United States illegally around twenty eleven, and had

818
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 6: been living in the uns United States in Maryland until then,

819
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 6: until about twenty nineteen, was his first kind of contact

820
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,840
Speaker 6: with the law enforcement. He was at a home depot

821
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 6: soliciting employment with three other men, two of which he

822
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 6: had interacted with only in that context of soliciting employment

823
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 6: at a home depot. It turns out one of them,

824
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 6: at least unbeknownst to him, did actually have gang affiliation

825
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 6: and had actually been convicted previously of gang participation in Maryland.

826
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 6: So he but he didn't know that, you know, he

827
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,800
Speaker 6: didn't really know this guy. They were just standing there chatting,

828
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 6: trying to find work when a police officer from the

829
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 6: Heatsville Police Department approaches the group. They talked to this

830
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 6: one man that did have this known gang affiliation. Two

831
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 6: of the men also agedly kind of dropped something, took

832
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 6: something out of their waistband uh and dropped it to

833
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,399
Speaker 6: the floor, some kind of plastic bottles that were later

834
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 6: confirmed to contain marijuana.

835
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 4: This was not kill Mars with some of the other two.

836
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 6: And then this officer calls her backup and arrests all

837
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,799
Speaker 6: four of them. They don't tell they don't talk to

838
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 6: kill Mar at all. They don't tell him why he's

839
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 6: being arrested.

840
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 4: Uh.

841
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,240
Speaker 6: But they take all four of them to the police

842
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 6: station and begin to interview all four of them, and

843
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 6: just at the outset, the only thing they interview him

844
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 6: about is his gang affiliation. They begin to say, Okay,

845
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 6: tell us what gang.

846
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 4: You're part of?

847
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 6: You know, what's your your rank in the gang? Uh,

848
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 6: you know what's your what's your name in the gang?

849
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 6: And he's he's just totally befuddled. You know, I don't

850
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 6: know what you're talking about. I have absolutely no connection

851
00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 6: to a gang in this case they're talking about.

852
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 4: I'm a certain.

853
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 6: They don't believe him. And the next thing he knows,

854
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 6: a n Ice officer is there to pick him up

855
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 6: and take him to Ice attention center. This whole interaction

856
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:20,280
Speaker 6: is quite brief, so from the there's only one document

857
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 6: that kind of documents this whole interaction. It's a gang

858
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 6: field interview sheet, and it's the only single source of

859
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 6: these supposed link gang allegations.

860
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 4: The gang.

861
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 6: The gang field interview sheet, it's all says that the

862
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 6: officer approached the group at two twenty seven pm and

863
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 6: the gang field Interview sheet is entered into the system

864
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 6: at six forty seven pm, So that means you know,

865
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 6: from the time that they apprehend the group, they then

866
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 6: you know, call for backup, arrest everyone, transport, interview everything,

867
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 6: you know, and then you know, right up the report

868
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 6: turned the system is about four hours and twenty minutes,

869
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 6: and in that time they have come to you know,

870
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 6: that thorough After that very thorough, thorough investigation, they've concluded

871
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 6: that he's an MS thirteen gang member. And in the

872
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 6: gang Field interview sheet, it says that the basis for

873
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 6: that is that because he was wearing at the time

874
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 6: a Chicago bulls hat, which they say is.

875
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 4: Officers no such clothing to.

876
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 6: Be indicative of Hispanic gang culture, the Chicago wearing the

877
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 6: Chicago Bulls hat represents that they are a member in

878
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 6: good standing with the MS thirteen, And they also say

879
00:47:43,160 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 6: that a hoodie that he was wearing, which his wife

880
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 6: had bought him and ordered off the internet, is also

881
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 6: indicative of this Hispanic gang culture and that they know

882
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 6: that it represents see no evil, hear no evil, and

883
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,320
Speaker 6: say no evil, which is sort of of one of

884
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 6: the slogans. And I'm as thirteen and the final at

885
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,359
Speaker 6: least a past, proven, reliable source that they they say

886
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 6: they contact, can you.

887
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 3: Talk about that this this alleged confidential informa.

888
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, all they say is that they contacted a past, proven,

889
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 6: reliable source of information that said that he was a

890
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 6: member of the Western's clique. They don't say any information

891
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 6: there and that's all. It doesn't say who this person is.

892
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 6: What they said their reason to fabricate for all we know.

893
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 6: You know, it could have been one of the people

894
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,879
Speaker 6: that you know was seen kind of throwing out some

895
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 6: containers with marijuana, because from what we saw, those people

896
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 6: were never charged with any crime.

897
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 1: Uh, you know, let me let me get you to

898
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: respond a little bit to the Vice president, who has

899
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: been very vocal on this case. So here he is

900
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: sort of punching back. I guess at Kyle Cheney, who's

901
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,360
Speaker 1: the legal affair reporter at Politico, and he says he

902
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 1: is apparently unable or unwilling to look at the facts.

903
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:05,359
Speaker 4: Here.

904
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, an immigration judge under the first Trump

905
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 1: administration to determine the deported man was in fact a

906
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: member of the MS thirteen gang. He also apparently had

907
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: multiple traffic violations for which he failed to appear in court.

908
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 1: A real winner. It's telling that the entire American media

909
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: is going to run a propaganda operation today making you

910
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 1: think an instant father of three was apprehended by a goolag.

911
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: Here are the relevant facts. Number one, the man is

912
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: an illegal immigrant with no right to be in our country.

913
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:34,240
Speaker 1: Number two, an immigration judge determined he was a member

914
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: of the MS thirteen gang. Number three, because he is

915
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 1: not a citizen, he does not get a full jury

916
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 1: trial by peers. In other words, whatever due process he

917
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: was entitled to he received. Is what's your response to

918
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: the framing and the facts also that the Vice president

919
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 1: puts out.

920
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 6: Yes, all three of those are incorrect. The judge in

921
00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 6: the case that was actually very heavily litigated, which was

922
00:50:01,760 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 6: his final hearing where the judge granted him with holding.

923
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 6: That was the case that actually took place over two days,

924
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 6: which is heavily unusual an immigration court. Those cases often last,

925
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 6: you know, one to maybe three hours. This case lasted

926
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 6: over two days. And you'll see that. I mean, the

927
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 6: the court decision granting him withholding is in the court documents,

928
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 6: and I think two things are notable there. One that

929
00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 6: the gang allegations don't really even appear in there, and

930
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 6: so I think it's it's just a testament to how

931
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 6: the little weight the judge even gave them because they

932
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 6: were he was questioned very very very very heavily about this,

933
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 6: and in advance so that we did also filew a

934
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,320
Speaker 6: subpoena asking for the officers to appear and also asking

935
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 6: for the government to produce any evidence substantiating the allegations.

936
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 4: The government opposed that.

937
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,800
Speaker 6: They said that they've spoken to law enforcement partners and

938
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 6: they had nothing else to offer. So the again, the

939
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 6: only single piece of evidence was this gang field interview

940
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 6: sheet that some guy basically no information about who that

941
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 6: guy was. Reason to Fabrica, why he was credible. I

942
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 6: mean it's kind of an in general, confidential informants are unreliable,

943
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 6: and you know, what he said also doesn't really make sense.

944
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 6: They said he was a member of a clique in

945
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 6: New York, but also number two is he that's.

946
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,919
Speaker 3: A pretty key point New York.

947
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 4: Yes, it's Western's clique as far as I.

948
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: Have seen, spent much time in New York.

949
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 6: No, he's never lived in New York. Yeah, he's never

950
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 6: He's only ever lived in Maryland.

951
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 3: Does MS thirteen have remote work back in twenty nineteen, No,

952
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 3: I mean that's more of a that's an in office

953
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 3: kind of yeah.

954
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 6: They yeah, right, it's a data day, you know, you

955
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 6: have you have to be Yeah, it's.

956
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: Not very liberal on the work from Home thirteen.

957
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:05,919
Speaker 6: Yeah, but also number two in that decision, you'll see

958
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,440
Speaker 6: that he finds him credible, meaning he believed him and

959
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 6: what he said, not only about what happened to him

960
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 6: in the past in an Al Salvador, which you know,

961
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,360
Speaker 6: gave him the basis to grant him humanitarian relief and

962
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 6: perform with all their removal, but that he believed him

963
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 6: when he just vehemently denied being a member of MS thirteen.

964
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: Can we talk about the decision in twenty nineteen which

965
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: I mentioned you were involved with to claim asylum after

966
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,840
Speaker 2: many years in the country because some critics and I

967
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: don't know if the Vice president posted about this, but

968
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 2: would look at that and say immediately, huh, this seems

969
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 2: like a sort of tactic to you know, bolster the case.

970
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: But I know that he claims and you've claimed there

971
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 2: were there were credible reasons to fear Eighteenth Street gang

972
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: Paposa business. Could you take us through that decision a

973
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: little bit?

974
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean illegal standards are you know, if you've

975
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 6: suffered past persecution in the past in your home country,

976
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 6: then that gives you a presumption a future persecution in

977
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:10,080
Speaker 6: the future.

978
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 4: And he had suffered past persecution.

979
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 6: He had, He and his family had been through a

980
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 6: lot by this this gang in the past.

981
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 4: His father I.

982
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 6: Think had been attacked about eighteen times, had been held

983
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 6: up at gunpoint, rob he himself. They for many, many

984
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 6: many years were really like terrorizing him. On two occasions,

985
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 6: they like showed up at the family's home like fully armed,

986
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 6: kind of if you do not give us money right now,

987
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,640
Speaker 6: we are ready to take your son from you, essentially

988
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,720
Speaker 6: kidnap him and his brother had also been like beaten,

989
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 6: you know, lost consciousness from many meetings. They'd threatened to

990
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 6: rape his sisters. The family had gone through, had moved

991
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 6: three times to three different neighborhoods, and the threats persisted,

992
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 6: so that this wasn't sort of just a one time

993
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 6: hey want money if you know, you know, will hurt

994
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 6: you if you don't give us money. This was like

995
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 6: sustained over basically his his you know, since he was

996
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:25,040
Speaker 6: like an adolescent until he left El Salvador.

997
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the criticism, the criticis I saw was that

998
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 3: why didn't he apply in twenty eleven for this, Like,

999
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 3: why did he wait until he's picked up at the

1000
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:33,360
Speaker 3: home depot?

1001
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,319
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean I think that's he could have if

1002
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 6: he probably, if he knew he could have probably and

1003
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 6: had legal counsel. You know, I certainly would have told

1004
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 6: him if I had heard his story and he had

1005
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 6: access to legal counsel, I would have told him, you know,

1006
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 6: apply right now, and then he would have He would

1007
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 6: have had a very strong kies and probably would have

1008
00:54:54,239 --> 00:54:57,720
Speaker 6: ingranted asylum instead of withholding a removal.

1009
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 1: Lucia. To get back to I think the core piece here,

1010
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,240
Speaker 1: which I think can sometimes get lost in these details,

1011
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:08,760
Speaker 1: not that these details aren't also important, But everybody involves

1012
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: admits this was a mistake.

1013
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 4: Right.

1014
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:13,920
Speaker 1: The administration admitted in court they made what they describe

1015
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: as an administrative error. And now Kilmar is in this

1016
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,200
Speaker 1: prison in l Salvador, indefinitely a prison that is known

1017
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 1: for human rights abuses. You know, the whole point of

1018
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 1: sending them there seems to have been to send a

1019
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,719
Speaker 1: message about, you know, exactly what sort of punishment will

1020
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,600
Speaker 1: befall you. So everybody acknowledges this was a mistake. You

1021
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: should not have been removed to El Salvador period. What

1022
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: happens now? What is the next I understand there's a

1023
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: hearing it at one pm today. What do you think

1024
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 1: will happen there? And what sort of remedies do you

1025
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,880
Speaker 1: believe are available? Because I was reading that. You know,

1026
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,399
Speaker 1: administrations in the past have taken extraordinary measures to try

1027
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: to return people who were deported unlawfully or a mistake

1028
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: was made, but they may not be under an obligation

1029
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: to do so. So what are sort of the legal

1030
00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 1: contours of that fight coming up?

1031
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:06,400
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1032
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:12,640
Speaker 6: I mean this, uh, this is really is pretty unprecedented. Yes,

1033
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:17,520
Speaker 6: as you stated, Usually, when in the past government does

1034
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 6: see that somebody was deported erroneously and they see that,

1035
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 6: they do take as steps to correct that because you know,

1036
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,200
Speaker 6: a government makes a mistake, they should correct that. But

1037
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 6: here there they're refusing to do so, even though the

1038
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 6: consequences here much more drastic than him, just like being

1039
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 6: deported Telshodor and being able to just live a free life.

1040
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,560
Speaker 6: He is now yeah, as you said, in a torture prison.

1041
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 6: Where he is he you know, he doesn't even know

1042
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 6: his names all over the news right now? You know,

1043
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:47,520
Speaker 6: he is to you.

1044
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:49,920
Speaker 1: You and his family have no ability to nobody.

1045
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 6: Nobody is able to even contact him. There's no access

1046
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:57,760
Speaker 6: even to lawyers in there. They can't even receive letters.

1047
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 6: They are cut off from the world. So he is

1048
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 6: alone in there and has absolutely no idea that you know,

1049
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 6: he's making national news that people are fighting for him,

1050
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 6: and he you know, I'm sure he's very scared and

1051
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 6: he might be there forever, and so we're fighting to

1052
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 6: get him out of there. It's true that, of course

1053
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 6: the court here can't tell El Savador what to do,

1054
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 6: but what we're asking is pretty simple. We're telling we're

1055
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,240
Speaker 6: asking for the court to just order the government to

1056
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 6: stop paying El Savador to keep him there, and to

1057
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 6: just simply request for him to be released from there.

1058
00:57:42,600 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 6: And there really is no reason to doubt that El Savador,

1059
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,560
Speaker 6: which is a huge ally of the United States, would

1060
00:57:49,640 --> 00:57:53,360
Speaker 6: not uh, you know, do what the United States asks,

1061
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 6: but they're unwilling to do that.

1062
00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 3: What's his what's his family situation? He's still live in

1063
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 3: highlights the Hiatts Bill, like kid's wife.

1064
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:05,960
Speaker 6: He has, Yeah, he has a US citizen wife. He

1065
00:58:06,040 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 6: has a one uh biological child and that was actually

1066
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:16,000
Speaker 6: uh he actually missed the birth of his son while

1067
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:17,400
Speaker 6: he was detained.

1068
00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:19,640
Speaker 1: And uh.

1069
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,920
Speaker 6: Nineteen Uh that child, you know, potentially because of the

1070
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,680
Speaker 6: stress of on the life of her son, of her

1071
00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 6: husband being detained, on knowing what would happen in son

1072
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 6: was born with autism. He's nonverbal, he can communicate. He

1073
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 6: I believe is deaf in one ear and has severe

1074
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 6: developmental delays.

1075
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 4: Uh.

1076
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 6: And then he also has two step children that he's

1077
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,600
Speaker 6: they they for all, he's his their father. The biological

1078
00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 6: father is not in the picture. One of the other

1079
00:58:55,640 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 6: kids also has special needs, and the other daughter has epale.

1080
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 6: I believe it's had like an episode recently, Lucia.

1081
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 1: My last question for you. If Emily or Ryan have

1082
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: any others, they can feel free to jump in as well.

1083
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: But let's say that the court tells the Trump administration

1084
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 1: you have to try to get him back, and the

1085
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 1: Trump administration actually complies and goes to Bucali says, hey,

1086
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,919
Speaker 1: we screwed up on this one. We want this guy back,

1087
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: and he's brought back. What do you expect happens then,

1088
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: Because my understanding of his legal status is he could

1089
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 1: be deported somewhere else, just specifically not else Salvador. So

1090
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:41,120
Speaker 1: if things work out and he is able to be

1091
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: brought back to the country, what do you think is

1092
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: the best case scenario for him then going forward?

1093
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 4: Uh?

1094
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, there, it is possible for him to be deported

1095
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 6: somewhere else or our procedures to follow though to do that.

1096
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 6: It's also possible, you know, if they want, they might

1097
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,439
Speaker 6: want to reopen is proceedings, which is what they would

1098
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,400
Speaker 6: have had to do have done if they did want

1099
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 6: to deport him to El Salvador. In order to do

1100
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 6: that right, they can do emotion to reopen and to

1101
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 6: prove that you know, either the he no longer meets

1102
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 6: the requirements for withholding and in that case, you know,

1103
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:22,720
Speaker 6: if that happens, you know, a new defense deportation can

1104
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:29,880
Speaker 6: be presented, or you know, they could decide to do

1105
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,080
Speaker 6: do nothing right and just let him live with the

1106
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 6: status that he's he has acause he you know, he

1107
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 6: has the illegal status here. He is since he was

1108
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 6: granted withholding a removal in twenty nineteen, he has been

1109
01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:44,600
Speaker 6: in the United States legally.

1110
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 4: Gotcha.

1111
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,360
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for helping to break down

1112
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: all of these details because I think it, you know,

1113
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: really helps people to understand the ins and outs of

1114
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: the system and also the you know, the horror of

1115
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: what has happened here with Kilmar and with his family. Lucien,

1116
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time.

1117
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.

1118
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's our pleasure, pretty extraordinary getting to speak with

1119
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: kill Mar's lawyer and get all the details there. You guys,

1120
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: have any any reflections before we move on to some

1121
01:01:14,680 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: sort of political news here.

1122
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 2: It's one of those those interviews that we do sometimes

1123
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 2: and we both like from both sides, we've all had

1124
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 2: this experience on our show. It's what makes her so cool.

1125
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 2: But for me to sort of like, I have such

1126
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 2: a fundamental disagreement with the entire process that I was

1127
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 2: like really eager to hear her walk through the steps

1128
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 2: and how this happened, especially the twenty nineteen thing. But

1129
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 2: you know, she's it's her job, she's doing her job.

1130
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:42,600
Speaker 2: So it was I thought it was.

1131
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 3: It was pretty interesting, and yeah, it's just appalling that

1132
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:46,920
Speaker 3: he's in a torture chamber.

1133
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for what a disagreement there, Like if you

1134
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: want to go through the court system and you want

1135
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: to deport him, whether to El Salvador, I mean, she says, look,

1136
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: you can reopen the case and say, hey, this particular gang,

1137
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: the Kelly's delt with him, he could go back, who's

1138
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: the business would be fine, you can do that, but

1139
01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 1: you cannot just send him with no due prosit to

1140
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,280
Speaker 1: a specifically to a country where a judge has said

1141
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,160
Speaker 1: you cannot send him. And then for all of these people,

1142
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,600
Speaker 1: why are they being put in this torture change?

1143
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, like the like the malnutrition, like the the treatment

1144
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:24,840
Speaker 3: in that prison for a guy who, since he's sixteen

1145
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 3: years old is probably you know, work, work, works harder

1146
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:33,920
Speaker 3: every day than I do in like weeks. And for

1147
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 3: that and raising these his step kids and his and

1148
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:42,520
Speaker 3: his kid, who's got who's got special needs? To do

1149
01:02:42,640 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 3: that for your full life. And then the reward is

1150
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 3: to get sent to a dungeon where you're tortured and

1151
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 3: malnourished for what Like it's evil, it's evil.

1152
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:58,200
Speaker 1: It is evil. And especially since the administration's position is like, yeah,

1153
01:02:58,200 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 1: we fucked up. No, we're not going to do any

1154
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: thing about it. He just asked a rot like we're

1155
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 1: not even going to ask m kelly when you just

1156
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 1: had Christy know him down there, like you know, you

1157
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:09,919
Speaker 1: can bring it into the prison, you.

1158
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 3: Know, and then you don't want to him to port him.

1159
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:16,439
Speaker 1: Like right, exactly. You don't think that m kelly would

1160
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 1: be like sure if you were like, well, we screwed

1161
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: up with this one. We need to get this one back.

1162
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,160
Speaker 1: But the thing is that it reminds me. I don't

1163
01:03:24,160 --> 01:03:26,800
Speaker 1: want to say that's exactly now a situation or anything,

1164
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: but it reminds me of the same incentives that Beebe

1165
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 1: has to not return some of the hostages, because when

1166
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: some of the hostages came back, they said, actually, we

1167
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: were afraid for our lives from the idea of bombing.

1168
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 1: And when I saw that, I knew what I mean.

1169
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 1: He had been indicating from the beginning like his priority

1170
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: was really not getting the hostages back, in spite of

1171
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: what he was saying. But it's the same thing here.

1172
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 1: You know, it's one thing to know about this man

1173
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 1: theoretically read an article about him, know he's a father,

1174
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:57,040
Speaker 1: et cetera. It's another thing if he can actually tell you, like,

1175
01:03:57,200 --> 01:03:59,120
Speaker 1: this is what happened, this is what I went through,

1176
01:03:59,240 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 1: this is what that place is.

1177
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 3: Actually, right, they don't want him in sixty minutes.

1178
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right.

1179
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:09,200
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I was just go ahead, No, it's

1180
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 2: all going okay. I was going to get back into

1181
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 2: the whole asylum process thing. We don't need to go there.

1182
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: I'm sure we will on another day, so we'll just

1183
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: put a pin in that for now. Wanted to get

1184
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,840
Speaker 1: in some political news here because this was pretty extraordinary

1185
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 1: indication of how much the Democratic base has shifted in

1186
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: Trump two point zero. So data of a Progress admittedly

1187
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 1: a progressive polling firm, but they put a hypothetical matchup

1188
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:41,120
Speaker 1: between AOC and Chuck Schumer for Senate in the field

1189
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: and what they got back pretty astonishing here AOC winning

1190
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:51,040
Speaker 1: handily fifty five percent to thirty six percent for Schumer.

1191
01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:54,960
Speaker 1: And Ryan, I mean, I'm really excited to get your

1192
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 1: thoughts on this because it truly is a shift for

1193
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: the Democratic base. You know, is this idea of AOC

1194
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 1: challenging Schumer in particular, or I guess potentially Kirsten Gillibrand

1195
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 1: that has been around for a while, but I think

1196
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: even people like you and I were probably like, I

1197
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: don't know if she could actually win statewide New York,

1198
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:15,760
Speaker 1: Like it's a different deal, and she has has had

1199
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: more of this like niche progressive appeal her district makes

1200
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 1: sense obviously, but can she actually win statewide, let alone,

1201
01:05:23,720 --> 01:05:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, national ambitions. And because of the incredible contrast

1202
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: between the way she has taken the fight to the

1203
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 1: Trump administration versus how Schumer has been the emblem of

1204
01:05:37,480 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: laying down and playing dead, the Democratic based feeling very

1205
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: differently about this matchup going forward.

1206
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 3: And for the same reason that some on the left

1207
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 3: have gotten upset with her for being more of a

1208
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 3: Democratic team player, normy Democrats have warmed up to her

1209
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 3: because she is more of a team player, yep, with

1210
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party. And that book right there at the

1211
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 3: end of it, it finishes not spoiler with a poll

1212
01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 3: in New Hampshire where I think the Democratic primary voters

1213
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 3: in New Hampshire, you know, had the highest favorability rating

1214
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 3: for her, Like I think it might have been Bernie

1215
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 3: actually might have been a number one or something, or

1216
01:06:16,560 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 3: maybe she was even ahead of Bernie.

1217
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 1: You can think Bernie usually comes in number one of

1218
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: these things, but.

1219
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 3: In particularly among New Hampshire primary voters. So the question was,

1220
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 3: could she, you know, beat Schumer with upstate New York.

1221
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's a combination of suburban and rural Democrats,

1222
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 3: And I think right now Schumer's at his I mean,

1223
01:06:37,800 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 3: maybe he has further low to go, but like he's

1224
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 3: at it sees at a low after, you know, just

1225
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,120
Speaker 3: his complete capitulation. So a lot of the a lot

1226
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 3: of the lead you're seeing there is probably more anti

1227
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 3: Schumer necessary than necessarily prosy. But it shows that there's

1228
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:05,520
Speaker 3: a majority of Democrats in New York are willing to say, yeah, yeah, AOC, fine,

1229
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 3: let's let's let's give that a shot.

1230
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: And Emily, I think it's not just First of all,

1231
01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: I don't think it is just anti shum. AOC is

1232
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:15,360
Speaker 1: such a big name, like she comes with a whole

1233
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: people have a feeling about her, right And I also

1234
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 1: don't think it's just that she decided tactically to take

1235
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:24,760
Speaker 1: this approach of I'm not going to be the outsider

1236
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: bomb thrower. I'm going to play the inside game. But

1237
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 1: it's it's it's not only that that has made Norman

1238
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 1: Democrats more comfortable with her. It's also the fact that

1239
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:38,520
Speaker 1: Norman Democrats are becoming more comfortable with a bomb thrower

1240
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,000
Speaker 1: and they want I mean, what they're disgusted with the

1241
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 1: Democratic leadership over is you aren't being aggressive enough. So

1242
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 1: AOC has been critical of you know, Schumer and others

1243
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,320
Speaker 1: for example, and that's exactly actually what they want to

1244
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: see at this point. And that's what is really a

1245
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:59,680
Speaker 1: very different dynamic with your average Norman Democrat versus certainly

1246
01:07:59,720 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen.

1247
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 2: Yes, And the reason this is so dangerous for Chuck Schumer,

1248
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 2: and this is why he knows that, this is why

1249
01:08:07,200 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 2: the Democratic establishment has tried to co opt people like

1250
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 2: AOC and squash any sort of hint of dissent from leadership,

1251
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 2: is that so many voters make a lesser of two

1252
01:08:18,400 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 2: evils calculation, especially in primaries. And so if they start

1253
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:27,479
Speaker 2: to see Chuck Schumer as the greater of the two evils,

1254
01:08:27,520 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 2: maybe they're not culture warriors. And you can drag up

1255
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 2: things AOC may have said about the police or ice

1256
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,640
Speaker 2: or something like that back in twenty twenty, and I

1257
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 2: think those things will genuinely be harmful to her odds

1258
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 2: in the place like Upstate if she decides to run.

1259
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 2: But if they look at Chuck Schumer and say, this

1260
01:08:48,400 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 2: guy is just a simp. He's not doing anything, sometimes

1261
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 2: people will side with the culture warriors over the people

1262
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 2: like Chuck Schumer, especially if AOCS sounds more like the

1263
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 2: version of her who unseated what's his name, Joe Crowley. Yeah,

1264
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 2: in the first place, I love that his name has

1265
01:09:06,400 --> 01:09:08,480
Speaker 2: just fallen away from consciousness.

1266
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:10,519
Speaker 1: But I've forgotten.

1267
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,720
Speaker 2: You can't forget him. But it is really like, this

1268
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 2: is what happened with the Tea Party. We talk about

1269
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 2: this like every week now, but the similarities are absolutely true.

1270
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,719
Speaker 2: It's what happened with Donald Trump. Most Republican primary voters

1271
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:25,400
Speaker 2: did not choose Donald Trump, and that's why there was some,

1272
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:27,920
Speaker 2: you know, conversation about whether he would actually win the

1273
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,920
Speaker 2: Republican primary in twenty twenty four. But they continued to

1274
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 2: see Trump as a lesser of two evils against the establishment,

1275
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: even though people get exhausted with all of the posting

1276
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 2: and they don't like the way that he talks, They don't,

1277
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 2: you know, necessarily love his history with women. It just

1278
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 2: gets down to a lesser of two evils calculation, and

1279
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 2: Chuck Schumer is being dangerously is flirting dangerously with being

1280
01:09:51,000 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 2: put in the greater of two evils camp, and that's

1281
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: really what could end up undoing him.

1282
01:09:57,320 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 1: And he's not up for another four years, so to

1283
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,040
Speaker 1: Ryan point like this could be his low and he's

1284
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: able to get it back together. But Ryan, I mean,

1285
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:05,799
Speaker 1: what do you how are you feeling about the AOC

1286
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:10,960
Speaker 1: like potential national prospects because I was pretty skeptical. I'm

1287
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:13,320
Speaker 1: still somewhat skeptical because I think Emily's right. I mean,

1288
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:15,080
Speaker 1: she she did do a lot of the you know,

1289
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 1: the Latin X and birthing person like, she did do

1290
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,519
Speaker 1: too much of that kind of academic language that doesn't

1291
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: land with normal people. But her messaging lately has been fantastic.

1292
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: You know, she's been on the Stopballergarchy tour with Bernie.

1293
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,799
Speaker 1: She's been on the like bread and butter, like class

1294
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: war messaging that I personally think is you know, the

1295
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: most political politically both correct and also politically effective. And

1296
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,800
Speaker 1: also she has won over a lot of the Democratic base.

1297
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 1: I think she's you know, she's grown in a lot

1298
01:10:45,720 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 1: of ways. So I am more open to her as

1299
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: an effective national candidate than I was previously. Where are

1300
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 1: you on that question?

1301
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:57,479
Speaker 3: I think she's in the ballgame for sure.

1302
01:10:58,160 --> 01:10:58,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1303
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 3: The virtue that Bernie had is that even people who

1304
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 3: didn't agree with him would say, you know, he's he

1305
01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:09,160
Speaker 3: believes what he says he's been saying the same thing,

1306
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,320
Speaker 3: you know, for fifty years, and you can find clips

1307
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 3: of him saying it fifty years ago, yeah, like verbatim.

1308
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:21,519
Speaker 3: And so AOC will have the difficulty of like, hey,

1309
01:11:22,120 --> 01:11:25,800
Speaker 3: why aren't you saying LATINX anymore? Like what happened to

1310
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:26,520
Speaker 3: your pronouns?

1311
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:29,000
Speaker 2: And will go there?

1312
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,760
Speaker 3: Or she'll stick with yeah, any of her opponents with

1313
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 3: the media will or she'll stick with LATINX and stick

1314
01:11:35,439 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 3: with pronouns. And you know, so anytime she, you know,

1315
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:45,960
Speaker 3: you know, tries to move beyond that era, she's going

1316
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 3: to get pulled back by it. And and will I

1317
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 3: think we'll feel like she's being asked to throw some

1318
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 3: constituency under the bus and isn't going to want to

1319
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:58,519
Speaker 3: do that, right, But then are you going to get

1320
01:11:58,520 --> 01:12:02,000
Speaker 3: wrapped up in the axle of some you know, silly

1321
01:12:02,040 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 3: policy as a result of that. And so so she

1322
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 3: she still has the kind of thorns of she's kind

1323
01:12:10,200 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 3: of she's kind of tangled up in it, and it's

1324
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,120
Speaker 3: going to be difficult, I think, to just to untangle.

1325
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,760
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, I don't I don't know, but I

1326
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 1: mean I think it's honestly better to just own it

1327
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,720
Speaker 1: and lean into it than to be like, who me LATINX?

1328
01:12:24,880 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 2: I mean, especially when.

1329
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: You're AOC I mean or Kamala Harris, Right, you find a.

1330
01:12:31,040 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 3: Way of messaging in a little bit more, a little

1331
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:36,799
Speaker 3: bit better. She's she's a great messenger. She could maybe

1332
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,040
Speaker 3: find a way. Yeah, give up on LATINX. I mean,

1333
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:45,640
Speaker 3: maybe that's the maybe that's your sister soulgent because nobody

1334
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 3: will actually care about that.

1335
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you could. You could see her saying, like,

1336
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 1: I find it interesting that you care more about a

1337
01:12:51,439 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: particular word that I use than the fact that the

1338
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 1: working class is getting screwed by Donald Trump and the

1339
01:12:55,680 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: billionaire you know, like you can you can there.

1340
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 3: Were some communities that there's some communities telling me that

1341
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 3: they wanted that term. They don't want it anymore.

1342
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:08,920
Speaker 1: Fine, fine, Yeah, totally related to this, Ryan you Actually

1343
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:11,599
Speaker 1: this was not actually particularly on my radar, but these

1344
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 1: protests that are coming up this weekend appear to be

1345
01:13:14,320 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: quite large Saturday nationwide hands off anti Trump protests. You

1346
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: see the map here. It was pretty extraordinarily broad movement.

1347
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 1: You said, you knew, you knew someone who was going

1348
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:26,639
Speaker 1: to the one of the villages.

1349
01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad, My dad is on the villages right now.

1350
01:13:29,400 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 3: He says he's a Pennsylvania snowbird. He goes down to

1351
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 3: the villages in the winter.

1352
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 1: So it it says more than eleven hundred rallies, they've

1353
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: had nearly two hundred and fifty thousand RSVPs. That was

1354
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:42,880
Speaker 1: as of March twenty ninth, so I'm sure they have

1355
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: even more by now. So what's the particular messaging here?

1356
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:50,680
Speaker 1: Is it just kind of everything or is there a

1357
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: particular focus.

1358
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 3: It's it's like anti doge Doge, anti doggie, hands off

1359
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:04,400
Speaker 3: social Security, hands on Medicare and Medicaid, stop destroying the government,

1360
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:09,640
Speaker 3: make things better, not worse. So it's kind of a

1361
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 3: broad resistance to what Musk and Trump are doing, kind

1362
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:15,960
Speaker 3: of rally. But yeah, I think you're you're going to

1363
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 3: see I think, uh, you know, huge numbers of people

1364
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 3: I think are going to are going to turn out

1365
01:14:23,080 --> 01:14:25,080
Speaker 3: for this. There are buses coming to Washington, d C.

1366
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 3: So you know, it could be could be sizable here.

1367
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 3: But even for you know, if wherever you are watching this,

1368
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 3: there's probably a hands off rally, you know, fairly close.

1369
01:14:38,280 --> 01:14:40,599
Speaker 3: I asked my dad, like, is it a Tesler dealership.

1370
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,240
Speaker 3: He said, now it's at a it's a parking lot,

1371
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 3: which is which sounds very sounds very villages. But yeah,

1372
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,400
Speaker 3: if the villages is able to bring out you know,

1373
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:53,519
Speaker 3: hundreds or even thousands of people, which is that this

1374
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:57,160
Speaker 3: is famously the Republican leaning uh you know, retirement community

1375
01:14:57,200 --> 01:14:57,639
Speaker 3: in Florida.

1376
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 1: I think part of the village is was in one

1377
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: of these Florida districts. That was last week, right.

1378
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were Randy Fine which which and my dad

1379
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 3: was saying, no, like, nobody down there likes the guy,

1380
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:14,240
Speaker 3: including all the Republicans. DeSantis was just ripping him. I

1381
01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:18,960
Speaker 3: saw that yesterday. He's pretty it seems like a pretty

1382
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 3: despicable dude, and that kind of an arrogant guy who

1383
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:25,599
Speaker 3: was like angered a lot of people with a real

1384
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,200
Speaker 3: haughty attitude on whatever commission he was elected to serve

1385
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 3: before this. But you know, when Republicans, you know, win

1386
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:37,160
Speaker 3: those races by thirty forty points, it's it's going to

1387
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 3: be hard to lose. And yeah, he ended up losing

1388
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 3: to his like a middle school teacher, Josh wheel Buy

1389
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:43,360
Speaker 3: like ten points or something like that. I mean, being

1390
01:15:43,400 --> 01:15:44,280
Speaker 3: a middle school teacher.

1391
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 1: DeSantis said something like, you know, they wanted me to

1392
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,839
Speaker 1: put this guy on the Florida Atlantic Board. I tried

1393
01:15:51,320 --> 01:15:53,519
Speaker 1: to get rid of him, and they didn't want him.

1394
01:15:53,960 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 4: It was pretty.

1395
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 2: You know, Santas is this guy is unlikable.

1396
01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a partisan way, like people just do not

1397
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 3: like this No.

1398
01:16:08,280 --> 01:16:10,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well for good reason when you see the horrific,

1399
01:16:10,680 --> 01:16:16,919
Speaker 1: like monstrous things he says about kids getting slaughtered in Gaza.

1400
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 1: The thing that I think is important about these protests,

1401
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 1: Emily is it does comment a moment when Democratic electeds

1402
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: have kind of realized like, all right, we gotta up

1403
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:29,320
Speaker 1: our game, right. That's what Corey Booker holding the floor.

1404
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: That represents them realizing like, okay, we're not meeting the

1405
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 1: but we got to do something right and or else

1406
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:37,040
Speaker 1: there is going to be a tea party with you know,

1407
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 1: Pitchforks coming for us. And you also had these election

1408
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 1: results that Democrats are taking a lot of hard in.

1409
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: Obviously you were in Wisconsin. The Liberal there wins by

1410
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 1: double digits. They made huge you know, fifteen to twenty

1411
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,240
Speaker 1: point made up ground in those two Florida seats. So

1412
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of mojo re entering the Democratic Party.

1413
01:16:58,680 --> 01:17:01,000
Speaker 1: And then these protests come in and it's another you know,

1414
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:06,000
Speaker 1: visible demonstration of okay, we the base of the Democratic

1415
01:17:06,040 --> 01:17:09,720
Speaker 1: Party is fired up, like they are ready to you know,

1416
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:11,719
Speaker 1: they are ready to go to war. They are ready

1417
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:16,040
Speaker 1: to go in whatever direction they think makes sense in

1418
01:17:16,160 --> 01:17:18,640
Speaker 1: order to protest what is being done in this country. So,

1419
01:17:19,320 --> 01:17:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think, like, I don't think anyone necessarily

1420
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:24,840
Speaker 1: expects that it's going to change how the Trump administration

1421
01:17:24,920 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: is approaching Social Security, Medicare or whatever. But I do

1422
01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:30,200
Speaker 1: think it will probably strengthen the backbone a little bit

1423
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 1: of the Democratic Party who will see this show of strength.

1424
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it might change how Republicans approach soci security,

1425
01:17:36,080 --> 01:17:39,599
Speaker 2: Medicare because it's a confirmation of Trump's longtime political instincts.

1426
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:42,400
Speaker 2: And that's why you saw Josh Holly go into the

1427
01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 2: White House yesterday saying I talked to Trump. He says,

1428
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,679
Speaker 2: nobody is going to touch social Security and Medicaid and

1429
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 2: you know, trying.

1430
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 1: To touching it. It's being touched right now.

1431
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:58,560
Speaker 2: There's that video of Bill Cassidy this week on Newsmax.

1432
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:01,800
Speaker 2: Did you see this crystal of him like accidentally saying

1433
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 2: cut Medicaid and then realized he meant to say reform

1434
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 2: and correcting it to the camera and giving a big

1435
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:11,519
Speaker 2: old grin yea, and like it may turn into one

1436
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,000
Speaker 2: of those situations where Trump ends up saying like, you

1437
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:18,320
Speaker 2: guys got up stop. We don't know though, and that's

1438
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:21,799
Speaker 2: probably not good enough assurance if you're just an average

1439
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:24,600
Speaker 2: American who relies on those programs, Which is why I

1440
01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:27,400
Speaker 2: think this is a study in contrast with the resistance

1441
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,280
Speaker 2: that bubbled up in twenty seventeen. And Ryan wrote a

1442
01:18:30,320 --> 01:18:33,439
Speaker 2: whole book about this, But I think as this has

1443
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 2: we've seen this over the first what almost one hundred days,

1444
01:18:36,320 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: seventy five days, I think as of tomorrow of the

1445
01:18:39,439 --> 01:18:43,920
Speaker 2: Trump administration, it looks this is a much better democratic

1446
01:18:43,960 --> 01:18:46,880
Speaker 2: resistance than the one of twenty seventeen, because I increasingly

1447
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 2: think the one that came to be in twenty seventeen

1448
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:54,320
Speaker 2: morphed into something that ended up greatly backfiring on Democrats

1449
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,360
Speaker 2: because it wasn't based on class criticism, and this one,

1450
01:18:58,640 --> 01:19:01,639
Speaker 2: so far is is much more focused on that, which

1451
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:06,200
Speaker 2: is pretty interesting for the Democratic Party. And there's there's

1452
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 2: just like a recognition that this isn't don't talk about

1453
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:14,320
Speaker 2: grab them by the pussy like talk about actual nuts

1454
01:19:14,360 --> 01:19:17,479
Speaker 2: and bolts, kitchen table issues that will break through with

1455
01:19:17,720 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 2: your regular voter every day.

1456
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: So not hands off my pussy, hands off my social security.

1457
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,960
Speaker 2: It's like it's such an obvious, It's like it's you

1458
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 2: would think.

1459
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 3: It's been clarifying, I think for the Democratic base to

1460
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:36,360
Speaker 3: have this multi billionaire, richest man on the planet, literally

1461
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:41,200
Speaker 3: wielding a chainsaw on stage, hopped up on ketamine, all

1462
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:45,960
Speaker 3: going after the you know, going after the federal government

1463
01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 3: on cutting you know, and then and then now they're

1464
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:52,360
Speaker 3: watching all their four oh one k's you know, collapse

1465
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:55,960
Speaker 3: into into some puddle, and you know that that's a

1466
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,640
Speaker 3: lot worse for somebody in their seventies than it is

1467
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:01,799
Speaker 3: foreople in their thirties or forties.

1468
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:05,680
Speaker 1: That is down twelve hundred points right now today, by

1469
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:06,080
Speaker 1: the way.

1470
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 3: Another twelve hundred on top of yesterday is sixteen. Yeah,

1471
01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:14,160
Speaker 3: that's like those are those are real numbers.

1472
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:18,599
Speaker 1: Starts to be real for sure. Okay, last thing here,

1473
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: got to get Emily in particular, but both of you

1474
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:24,000
Speaker 1: to weigh in on our friend Laura Lumer.

1475
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,679
Speaker 2: No literally Ryan, Ryan is actually in touch with Laura Lumer.

1476
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,800
Speaker 3: Yesterday, I'll pull it.

1477
01:20:31,840 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 1: Up did she yeah, so she she so this again

1478
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,360
Speaker 1: like while the while the global economy is in free fall,

1479
01:20:41,439 --> 01:20:44,240
Speaker 1: and like you know from Trump's tariffs, he's not doing

1480
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 1: He's meeting with Laura Lumber at the White House before

1481
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 1: going to play golf. Right, this is his this is

1482
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 1: on his agenda. So anyway, after she visits, he fired

1483
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:58,920
Speaker 1: what three people from the National Security Council. The way

1484
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: actios frames are come a day after conspiracy theorist Laura

1485
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:04,599
Speaker 1: Lumer visited the Oval Office press Trump to fire specific

1486
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 1: NSC staffer's axios is not confirmed. Where the firings were

1487
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:10,120
Speaker 1: directly linked to that incident, with the source familiar said

1488
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: they were being labeled as an anti neocon move. So, Emily,

1489
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:19,080
Speaker 1: what do we know about these people and their alleged sins?

1490
01:21:19,080 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: And of course, I mean this comes as the whole

1491
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 1: Signal Gate thing happened, and no one was fired out

1492
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:26,960
Speaker 1: of that, including Mike Walls, who is definitely a neo

1493
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:29,880
Speaker 1: Khan as anyone could see for themselves within the signal chats,

1494
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:32,479
Speaker 1: as were pretty much everybody else in that chat. By

1495
01:21:32,520 --> 01:21:36,120
Speaker 1: the way, So he's not fired, but these three people

1496
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 1: appear to have been have been lumored here in the

1497
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,800
Speaker 1: wake of this meeting, like, what do we know about

1498
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:44,120
Speaker 1: these people? What do you think Laura Lumer, what is

1499
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:45,160
Speaker 1: her issue with them?

1500
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 4: Et cetera.

1501
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:52,080
Speaker 2: Well, Lumur is basically doing the Charlie Kelly chalkboard Peppy

1502
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:54,880
Speaker 2: Silva thing from its always Sonny in Philadelphia the meme.

1503
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:57,120
Speaker 2: And I don't mean that in a bad way actually,

1504
01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 2: because some of these people's careers actually really have to

1505
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,920
Speaker 2: start piecing together a puzzle in order to get the

1506
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:06,160
Speaker 2: big picture of Like okay, and Mike Waltz is one

1507
01:22:06,160 --> 01:22:09,200
Speaker 2: of them. Uh, they may be talking like quote unquote

1508
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:13,200
Speaker 2: America First Patriots right now, and you know, staunch supporters

1509
01:22:13,200 --> 01:22:16,559
Speaker 2: of the Trump movement, which is you moving towards China

1510
01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:19,960
Speaker 2: and you know, moving away from the same neo conservative

1511
01:22:19,960 --> 01:22:25,160
Speaker 2: position on Ukraine and Russia. But but h Luma is

1512
01:22:25,200 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 2: basically showing that these, uh, some of these allies of

1513
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:31,240
Speaker 2: Mike Waltz are sort of like him. You know, he's

1514
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:34,400
Speaker 2: someone who was an advisor to Dick Cheney, founded a

1515
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 2: defense contracting group that had big business in Afghanistan, and

1516
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 2: she was she was kind of connecting the dots and

1517
01:22:41,040 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: showing that these these folks had a similar career backgrounds

1518
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 2: that went through uh the like the National Security ringer,

1519
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 2: and they're, according to Lumer, bringing all of that baggage

1520
01:22:53,560 --> 01:22:57,160
Speaker 2: with them and wrapping it in the America first packaging.

1521
01:22:57,400 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 2: So it's she's completely right by the way. I mean,

1522
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 2: like there's been some ideological uh, there's been some sincere

1523
01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:10,120
Speaker 2: ideological shifts among people in the Trump orbit who have

1524
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:13,519
Speaker 2: reconsidered their own priors, and some of that is genuine.

1525
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:16,439
Speaker 2: But if you look at Mike Waltz, I don't think

1526
01:23:16,479 --> 01:23:19,720
Speaker 2: it's really the case with him. Uh And that's what

1527
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 2: she's saying is look at these guys he brought with him.

1528
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:27,840
Speaker 2: You know, Ryan, you what does she tell drop Site yesterday?

1529
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:31,240
Speaker 3: She's had a very statesman.

1530
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:34,040
Speaker 1: Like respect for the White House in President Trump. I'm

1531
01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 1: not going to divulge any details. Blah blah blah.

1532
01:23:36,120 --> 01:23:40,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is uh so we reported over drop Site

1533
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:45,120
Speaker 3: that inside the administration, Waltz's n sc IS is just

1534
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:50,040
Speaker 3: colloquially referred to as the Neoconsecurity Council. It's just it's

1535
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:53,360
Speaker 3: very much known as the kind of leading edge of

1536
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 3: the of the warhawk element. You know, she went in

1537
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 3: and got Doug fights NEPO higher. You know, Doug Fight's

1538
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:03,679
Speaker 3: one of the leading neo cons of the Bush era,

1539
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,120
Speaker 3: and his kid David apparently was. And it seemed it

1540
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:13,080
Speaker 3: seems like Trump learned about this and moved on it.

1541
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 3: Now he sort of denied it, like do we have

1542
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,320
Speaker 3: the Trump clip talking on Air Force one.

1543
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 2: On their first one.

1544
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:23,880
Speaker 3: It's it's it's it's quite funny to watch because he's like, look,

1545
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:26,920
Speaker 3: Laura Loomer, gotta see it. Let me, I'll see if

1546
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 3: I can find But he's like, look, Laura, Laura Lumer

1547
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,840
Speaker 3: very strong. And what's what's amazing.

1548
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:32,880
Speaker 2: Is that.

1549
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 3: She did this with Michael Waltz sitting there in the

1550
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:38,639
Speaker 3: Oval office.

1551
01:24:38,760 --> 01:24:42,839
Speaker 2: Oh really, he was there, and she's the vice president

1552
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:43,519
Speaker 2: apparently too.

1553
01:24:44,040 --> 01:24:45,880
Speaker 1: Lee's got some balls, man, I will give.

1554
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:52,439
Speaker 3: She's just sitting there. Oh here it is, she's dropping here.

1555
01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:54,360
Speaker 3: Let me let me play this. She's just dropping all

1556
01:24:54,360 --> 01:24:58,040
Speaker 3: of this research, getting these getting these clowns fired, like

1557
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:03,360
Speaker 3: right in right in front of their bosses. It's like,

1558
01:25:03,520 --> 01:25:05,320
Speaker 3: you gotta you gotta admire that.

1559
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:05,519
Speaker 4: Here.

1560
01:25:05,600 --> 01:25:08,000
Speaker 3: Let me let's play some Trump here. Tell us a

1561
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 3: little bit about your meeting with Laura Lumer and Mike

1562
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:11,679
Speaker 3: Woltz today.

1563
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:12,839
Speaker 2: How that? Yeah?

1564
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 5: So Laura Lumer is a very good patron.

1565
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:19,320
Speaker 4: She is a very strong person.

1566
01:25:19,960 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 3: And I saw her, Yes, she has.

1567
01:25:22,600 --> 01:25:26,920
Speaker 5: She makes recommendations of nats and people, and sometimes I

1568
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 5: listen to those recommendations like I do with everybody. I

1569
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 5: listen to everybody, and then I make a decision. But

1570
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:37,000
Speaker 5: I saw her yesterday. She was at the ceremony, and

1571
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:41,200
Speaker 5: uh she is. She'll always have something to say, usually

1572
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 5: very constructed.

1573
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:48,840
Speaker 2: She'll always have something to say, usually very constructive. To

1574
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:49,560
Speaker 2: the administration.

1575
01:25:49,720 --> 01:25:53,760
Speaker 5: Not well, she'll recommend that too.

1576
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:56,800
Speaker 3: Yesterday she recommends some people for jobs. Did she have

1577
01:25:56,840 --> 01:25:57,880
Speaker 3: anything to do with the.

1578
01:25:58,000 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 2: Nsc aids who were housed.

1579
01:26:00,240 --> 01:26:05,760
Speaker 3: No, not at all. No, No, not at all, not

1580
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:06,040
Speaker 3: at all.

1581
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 1: I always have something to say, usually very constructive.

1582
01:26:09,560 --> 01:26:14,200
Speaker 3: Very strong, good patriot. That's so good. She sat there

1583
01:26:14,200 --> 01:26:14,880
Speaker 3: and ripped.

1584
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:17,120
Speaker 1: These people off of Air Force one. And then that

1585
01:26:17,160 --> 01:26:19,559
Speaker 1: happened on the campaign. Laura was like on the plane

1586
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 1: a lot unless a strety in the inner circle. And

1587
01:26:21,439 --> 01:26:24,160
Speaker 1: then Susie Wilds came in and they started.

1588
01:26:23,960 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 3: Blamed they blamed her for him doing that embarrassing thing.

1589
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:29,960
Speaker 3: They're eating the pets, they're eating the cats, they're eating

1590
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 3: the dogs. They kicked her.

1591
01:26:32,320 --> 01:26:34,360
Speaker 1: Off for that well turned down not to matter.

1592
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:38,880
Speaker 2: So and to what we just watched from Trump him

1593
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:42,879
Speaker 2: claiming that it wasn't. Lumer just retweeted herself from thirteen

1594
01:26:42,920 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 2: hours ago saying, you know how, you know how you

1595
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:49,040
Speaker 2: know the NSC officials are reported to President Trump are

1596
01:26:49,040 --> 01:26:50,720
Speaker 2: disloyal people who have played a role in stuff. But

1597
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 2: tashi Donald Trump because the fired officials are being defended

1598
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:57,479
Speaker 2: by Jen Saki Andrew McCabe on MSNBC and CNN right now. So,

1599
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,559
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's fair to take all of

1600
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:02,280
Speaker 2: the way that she's talking about it and what happened

1601
01:27:02,360 --> 01:27:06,840
Speaker 2: is pretty clear evidence that this was directly connected.

1602
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:11,000
Speaker 3: To making much of an effort to deny that. Yeah,

1603
01:27:11,160 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 3: that was one of his book casual No.

1604
01:27:13,720 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: Of course, Yeah, you said she recommended some people for jobs. Yeah,

1605
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:22,200
Speaker 1: for those jobs after she told a fire those people.

1606
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 2: I mean she also absolutely bodied Dana Bash. I mean,

1607
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:32,639
Speaker 2: this is nobody. I feel like it just never gets

1608
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:36,439
Speaker 2: enough attention that Dana Bash's ex husband, they're married. Well,

1609
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 2: she covered the Obama administration. You guys remember this better

1610
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:39,920
Speaker 2: than I do.

1611
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 3: But Jeremy the c I A, yeah, this is.

1612
01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:48,320
Speaker 2: Very closely on Panetta and I think what Lumor was

1613
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:52,759
Speaker 2: pointing out, I didn't verify this, so it's probably true,

1614
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 2: sounds true, but it didn't verify this, but that one

1615
01:27:55,400 --> 01:28:01,519
Speaker 2: of Waltz's NSC guys worked for Jeremy ash who obviously

1616
01:28:01,520 --> 01:28:03,360
Speaker 2: has been you know, deep state circles.

1617
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 1: Interesting, gotcha, Yeah, Laura Lumeercy's never wrong, so no need.

1618
01:28:07,920 --> 01:28:11,680
Speaker 2: To there's I think, you know, I I trust her

1619
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:15,559
Speaker 2: her fact checking new york you know, New Yorker level

1620
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 2: fact checking.

1621
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 1: I guess the last thing I'll say about this is,

1622
01:28:21,439 --> 01:28:25,320
Speaker 1: you know, Waltz seemed to have been protected by the

1623
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,600
Speaker 1: fact that Trump hates Jeffrey Goldberg and didn't want to

1624
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:33,639
Speaker 1: be seen as giving Jeffrey Goldberg a scalp. So instead,

1625
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeahloomer comes in and is like, all right, well, I

1626
01:28:37,080 --> 01:28:39,040
Speaker 1: guess we're not going to take out that guy, but

1627
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:43,240
Speaker 1: all of these underlings they're vulnerable, so we're going to

1628
01:28:43,280 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: come in with a knife with them. So that seems

1629
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:46,360
Speaker 1: to be kind of what played out here.

1630
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 2: It's completely insane. I mean, he's Donald Trump. I have

1631
01:28:50,240 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: no idea why he's not pushing the issue with Mike

1632
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:56,960
Speaker 2: Waltz because there are This is the point that we

1633
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:01,080
Speaker 2: were talking about the internal reporting about UH from drop site,

1634
01:29:01,160 --> 01:29:03,799
Speaker 2: about people just calling it the Neo Conservative Security Council.

1635
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:09,839
Speaker 2: It's there's like a lot of internal irritation with Mike Waltz.

1636
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 2: He's he's not the most popular person in Trump circles

1637
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:13,839
Speaker 2: and he never has been.

1638
01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:15,640
Speaker 1: Even outside of like ideology.

1639
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:18,840
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's both that people see it both

1640
01:29:18,880 --> 01:29:22,080
Speaker 2: in the same way that he's someone who wants to

1641
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 2: he thinks he can steer Trump in the right.

1642
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:27,240
Speaker 1: Here's the kind of guy that would have Jeffrey Goldberg

1643
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: in his.

1644
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 2: Phone exactly exactly and then go on Laura Ingram when

1645
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:34,519
Speaker 2: you know he doesn't really have much of a defense

1646
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,680
Speaker 2: to mount and say I got sucked in you like,

1647
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:40,680
Speaker 2: it's not a But that's why I don't understand. I mean,

1648
01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:43,840
Speaker 2: he hasn't offered to resign, which would have probably been

1649
01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:47,439
Speaker 2: the patriotic thing to do, to borrow a phrase from

1650
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 2: Trump himself from reference to Laura Lumour. But maybe it's

1651
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:52,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't.

1652
01:29:52,720 --> 01:29:57,559
Speaker 3: Know ye the start, Emily, but from the perspective of

1653
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 3: the internal fight between the neo cons and America firsts

1654
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:07,280
Speaker 3: Mike Waltz staying on but being completely denuded and and

1655
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:10,880
Speaker 3: like stripped of power and like losing his staff is

1656
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:16,080
Speaker 3: probably better for the America First Isolationist Crew than are

1657
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 3: they replaced by another neo kon Well, the Signal Chat,

1658
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:27,519
Speaker 3: it's so well jad, I mean yeah, jd Vance, whether

1659
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 3: or not Hexith you know, lives up to that or

1660
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 3: he just got reverse back to the you know what

1661
01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:36,960
Speaker 3: we saw in that Signal Chat A lot of the

1662
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 3: if you look at the all the different people that

1663
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 3: made it into the administration despite you know, Jewish Insider magazine,

1664
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:50,960
Speaker 3: you're trying to stop them, like yeah, those those types

1665
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:59,240
Speaker 3: what's his name, Bridge, Bridge, Colby, like that his whole faction, Like,

1666
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 3: you know, they're they probably benefit from Waltz having sticking

1667
01:31:03,479 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 3: around but having less power. But yeah, but then are

1668
01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:10,439
Speaker 3: they just going to fill the vacuum themselves and get

1669
01:31:10,720 --> 01:31:11,479
Speaker 3: all war happy?

1670
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, fall in line when Steven Miller's like, no, big

1671
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:16,040
Speaker 1: guy wants to bomb. So that's what we're doing.

1672
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I would rather, like my defense is,

1673
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:22,599
Speaker 2: I'd rather have those guys in the room than have

1674
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 2: a room full of Mike Watson, John Bolton, Yeah, yeah.

1675
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 1: No doubt, all right, guys, anything else, Ryan I know

1676
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 1: you had a story you were following it in God.

1677
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:35,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're at drop site where we're working on a

1678
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 3: piece about the medic massacre, which has kind of broken through.

1679
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 3: It's not out yet, so I'll well, we can talk

1680
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 3: about that later, but it's like, look for that. People

1681
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 3: have been following that, probably pretty closely. It's utterly, utterly incredible,

1682
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:53,120
Speaker 3: utterly unbelievable.

1683
01:31:53,439 --> 01:31:53,679
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1684
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:56,200
Speaker 1: Well in March twenty third dose too. I mean, if

1685
01:31:56,200 --> 01:32:00,839
Speaker 1: this happened at the early stages of the Onslaught and Gaza,

1686
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: there would have been huge press attention. There would have

1687
01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: been an effort, a mass propaganda campaign coming from the

1688
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:12,040
Speaker 1: Israelis compelling, yeah, slide shows and here's a you know,

1689
01:32:12,080 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 1: fabricated document that remember the fake folk call, Yeah, the

1690
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 1: fake audio that was released. That there would have been

1691
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:22,120
Speaker 1: a whole effort. Now they don't feel like they don't

1692
01:32:22,120 --> 01:32:23,880
Speaker 1: even have to really do it. Yeah, I mean not

1693
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:26,679
Speaker 1: to say that they didn't claim they were Hamas or whatever,

1694
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:30,439
Speaker 1: but uh, there was much less less effort required at

1695
01:32:30,439 --> 01:32:30,840
Speaker 1: this point.

1696
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:31,639
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1697
01:32:32,920 --> 01:32:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, guys, Well, thank you as always, and

1698
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:40,120
Speaker 1: thanks to all of you watching out there. By the way, guys,

1699
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:42,920
Speaker 1: you know we're able to do these extra Friday shows

1700
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:44,800
Speaker 1: with your support. So if you're able to become a

1701
01:32:44,800 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: premium subscriber, we do really appreciate it helps us to

1702
01:32:47,520 --> 01:32:50,000
Speaker 1: be able to, you know, continue, because we've really been

1703
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:52,439
Speaker 1: trying to be as on top of the news as

1704
01:32:52,479 --> 01:32:57,559
Speaker 1: possible given just how much things are breaking, like all

1705
01:32:57,600 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 1: the time every hour. By now, when I go and Twitter,

1706
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,120
Speaker 1: there'll be like five more stories that we should have

1707
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:04,080
Speaker 1: covered just right right now, that'll be ready.

1708
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:08,760
Speaker 2: Your quote unquote, vacation seemed very relaxing, like a great

1709
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:09,839
Speaker 2: respite from.

1710
01:33:09,760 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 1: I wasn't spending hours every day doom scrolling, dough worry. Yeah,

1711
01:33:12,640 --> 01:33:15,320
Speaker 1: I totally wasn't doing that. Doesn't sound like you, well,

1712
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,519
Speaker 1: you know seriously, though, I don't feel like I could

1713
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,760
Speaker 1: with my daughter, Okay, Byron, I don't feel like I

1714
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: could step away from the news for a week, Like

1715
01:33:23,520 --> 01:33:25,479
Speaker 1: I feel like I would be lost when I came back.

1716
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:27,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I would be completely lost. So I

1717
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:29,680
Speaker 1: will say I'm glad it was that week and not

1718
01:33:29,880 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 1: Liberation Week, because then I just would not have taken

1719
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,519
Speaker 1: a vacation at all, honestly, because it's just too wild.

1720
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,439
Speaker 1: But in any case, yeah, those are the times we

1721
01:33:36,479 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 1: live in so we appreciate you guys support if you're

1722
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:38,640
Speaker 1: able to.

1723
01:33:39,200 --> 01:33:41,679
Speaker 2: And now we have these Friday shows to work through

1724
01:33:41,920 --> 01:33:44,679
Speaker 2: some of the stuff that happens throughout the week.

1725
01:33:44,880 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 1: Yep, indeed, indeed all right, thanks Emily, have a great weekend, guys.

1726
01:33:48,400 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 1: We'll see you soon