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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Rosy Night, and welcome to Extra Vision.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking about what went wrong with The Joker

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Speaker 2: and it's fallout, answering your Rings of Power questions from

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Speaker 2: our discord download, and chatting with Rings of Power writer

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Speaker 2: Jennifer Hutchinson.

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Speaker 3: Let's talk Joker to Fallout. We're at the stage now

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Speaker 3: of the bombs, the bomb cycle of folly. You do

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Speaker 3: where the uh the what happened? Pieces are starting to

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Speaker 3: come out. Variety has a good one, Holliwood Reporter has

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Speaker 3: a few, and some juicy details have jumped out, and

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Speaker 3: I think equally important for us personally and professionally, some

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Speaker 3: of these details seem to support.

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Speaker 4: A lot of our theories. Yeah, we were right. Let's

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Speaker 4: start with the fact that.

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Speaker 3: At the premiere, wonderful juicy detail that heads off the

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Speaker 3: Variety article titled Inside the Joker Folio Dude Debacle, Todd

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Speaker 3: Phillips wanted nothing to.

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Speaker 4: Do with DC on the two Misfire. That's the title.

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Speaker 3: Opens with a detail that DC Studio co heads James

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Speaker 3: Gunn and Peter Saffran, the people tasked with moving DC

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Speaker 3: into a new, more unified direction, uh, did not attend

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Speaker 3: the premiere of Joker to Folia Do, which is this

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Speaker 3: is very juicy. That's very notable to me.

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Speaker 5: I will say it's very notable because I was lucky

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Speaker 5: enough I attended the Blue Beetle premiere, where James Gunn

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Speaker 5: and Peter Saffran did attend because they wanted to support

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Speaker 5: the movie and they wanted to say, hey, this is

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Speaker 5: like a transitional phase. Pa Saffram was also at the

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Speaker 5: Aquaman two premiere, so that there was not any kind

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Speaker 5: of like issue with the pair of them wanting to

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Speaker 5: show up and basically just support these movies and say, hey,

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Speaker 5: it's a transitional phase, but we're going through.

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Speaker 1: You never know what's going to happen.

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Speaker 5: Obviously, we know now that the incredible Sholo will be

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Speaker 5: playing I May in the DC Comics universe at some point.

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Speaker 5: So there was always like this transitional attitude. And they,

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Speaker 5: I mean they even came to the Shazam to Fury

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Speaker 5: of the God's premiere, So they were around for these

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Speaker 5: movies that were, in polite terms, like not particularly successful.

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Speaker 5: So it seems very strange to me that they would

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Speaker 5: not be there for a movie that everyone thought was

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Speaker 5: going to be a massive success, leading a billion dollar

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Speaker 5: movie a billion the sequel to a billion equal to a.

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Speaker 4: Billion dollar movie.

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Speaker 3: Now, of course much has been said by many figures

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Speaker 3: within DC that this was not this was canonically its

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Speaker 3: own thing siloed off. But still you would affect Gun

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Speaker 3: and Saffron.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think that this is to do with that.

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Speaker 5: Like, you know, there's reporting that Phillips wouldn't listen he

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Speaker 5: didn't want to hear notes from Gun in Saffron, he

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Speaker 5: didn't want to screen the movie. I mean, so, James

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Speaker 5: Gun is quite notable as a honest exec. And he

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Speaker 5: will go on the Internet and he will squash rumors

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Speaker 5: and he will confirm castings. And somebody said, hey, why

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Speaker 5: doesn't it have the DC Studios logo at the beginning

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Speaker 5: of the movie, which was at the beginning of the

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Speaker 5: recent Christopher Reeve documentary that Gun encouraged DC to pick up.

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Speaker 5: And he said, because it is not a DC Studios film.

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Speaker 5: He went on to add, all future films with DC

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Speaker 5: characters will be DC Studios. So very interesting to me

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Speaker 5: that he went out and said that, And he had said,

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Speaker 5: you know, Phillips had said, like let Todd Todd did

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Speaker 5: his thing. Let Todd continue to do his thing. And

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Speaker 5: now obviously they're seeing the fallout of that decision.

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Speaker 3: The next detail that I found wonderful, that's really I

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Speaker 3: think this personally. I find this detail to be petty

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Speaker 3: and probably not crucial to the ultimate formulation of why

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Speaker 3: this movie bombed. But the detail that the the direction

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Speaker 3: for the movie, the musical direction, the courtroom drama direction

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Speaker 3: of the musical came from a dream.

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Speaker 5: That keeps I love like that this is not true.

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Speaker 1: If this is.

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Speaker 5: Just a random rumor, thank you to whoever made up

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Speaker 5: this rumor, because it's so silly. I will also add,

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Speaker 5: for other unconfirmed goss that is hilarious around this, there

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Speaker 5: is akin to this. The person who did the lip

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Speaker 5: reading of them. I believe it was that Venice. At

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Speaker 5: first people report it was Can and Joaquin is like,

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Speaker 5: it is so horrible. I hate this movie, like it's

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Speaker 5: so bad, and lady Lady Jijar is.

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Speaker 1: Like, no, no, you wouldn't say that, would you.

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Speaker 5: And I'm like, I don't know if that's true or not,

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Speaker 5: but it gave me a lot of joy to watch

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Speaker 5: it because it was just so silly, and this whole

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Speaker 5: drama is very silly.

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Speaker 1: Another piece that I really got.

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Speaker 5: Some joy from was the why no one will get

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Speaker 5: fired over folly you du which rest of all terrible title,

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Speaker 5: but this is because somebody should be fired. Like we

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Speaker 5: have seen the way that people get put into director

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Speaker 5: jail for much less. But you know what I understand,

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Speaker 5: when you've made a one billion dollar movie, director jail

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Speaker 5: is much further away for you. So this is a

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Speaker 5: Pamela McClintock Aaron couch piece at The Hollywood Reporter and

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Speaker 5: one of the wildest things in here that I have

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Speaker 5: to say, I didn't know, but I guess this had

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Speaker 5: been a rumor around the first movie was that because

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Speaker 5: Christopher Nolan was still involved when the first movie was

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Speaker 5: made at DC, he put a kebosche on them. The

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Speaker 5: original ending of the US Joker movie was gonna be

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Speaker 5: that Arthur Fleck carved a smile into his face.

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Speaker 4: Basically he is.

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Speaker 5: The you know, the Heath Ledger Joker, which I don't

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Speaker 5: think that would have worked timeline wise, but sure, and

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Speaker 5: christ Fan Nolan apparently was like, no, only my Joker

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Speaker 5: can do that.

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Speaker 1: Don't do that.

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Speaker 4: And he was still very good film.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was very.

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Speaker 5: Involved at DC at the time, and so they squashed it.

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Speaker 1: But obviously we know that now.

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Speaker 5: That is the end spoiler alert of this Joker movie

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Speaker 5: where they reveal that a different character is actually, in

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Speaker 5: fact probably the Joker, and he carves something into his

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Speaker 5: face implying that he is Heath Ledgers Joker from the

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Speaker 5: Dark Knight, which, as Jason pointed out on our very

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Speaker 5: funny X Ray Extras episode, makes no sense because then

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Speaker 5: they would have already had him in the system, wouldn't

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Speaker 5: have been a problem to catch him. Doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, this is the fallout from this has been very,

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Speaker 5: very wild. The news that there were no test screenings,

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Speaker 5: which I find just that is crazy and that strenges

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Speaker 5: credulity to me.

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Speaker 3: So the so sources have said about that, it's a fact,

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Speaker 3: I guess that there were no test screenings, but sources

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Speaker 3: cited in both The Hollywood Reporter and Variety have said

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Speaker 3: that that was quote a mutual decision between the filmmaker

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Speaker 3: and the studio, which I don't know where I come

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Speaker 3: down on that. I'll say this, It seems clear to

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Speaker 3: me that after a Joker made a billion dollars on

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Speaker 3: something like a sixty million dollar budget, ye seven crazy

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Speaker 3: seventy million dollar budget, that Phillips was able to leverage

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Speaker 3: himself into a contract that gave him extraordinary freedom.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think I think we had like final

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Speaker 5: cut essentially, like that was no notes needed, no test screenings,

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Speaker 5: He got to do whatever he wanted.

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Speaker 3: And the gist of that why no one will get

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Speaker 3: fired a Peace and Holly reporter is that the the

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Speaker 3: Warner Brothers co heads that took over semi recently.

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Speaker 4: I forget their names, Abdi.

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Speaker 1: Pam Abdy and Michael de Luca.

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Speaker 3: Right, they were kind of in a knowing situation. One

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Speaker 3: they inherited this including the contract, which it seems like

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Speaker 3: they didn't have any hand in negotiating. And Two, you know,

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Speaker 3: what's the counterfactual. Imagine a world in which they, as

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Speaker 3: the incoming new co heads of Warner Brothers movies, decline

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Speaker 3: to green light the sequel to a billion dollar movie.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's what they're gonna happen too.

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Speaker 5: Also as well, like uh de Luke kind Abdi, both

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Speaker 5: had like a storied kind of history at WB, so

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Speaker 5: they were always bought in as like the safe options.

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Speaker 5: The thing I find most interesting at you know about

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Speaker 5: the Warner brother the Hollywood Reporter piece is like the

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Speaker 5: sources are just saying the wildest stuff where you're just like, guys,

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Speaker 5: how is this a real business?

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Speaker 1: Because they're like they're.

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Speaker 5: Like, you know, Phillips, he's always trusted his gut and

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Speaker 5: it's gotten him pretty far.

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Speaker 1: He thought people would get the joke.

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Speaker 4: Have we not.

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Speaker 5: Learned after watching the incredibly racist Hangover movies that like

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Speaker 5: which probably shouldn't trust this man's gut, like this.

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Speaker 3: Is I mean, listen, let me. I'm gonna conclaiming with

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Speaker 3: my biases. I liked Chernobyl. I thought it was great,

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Speaker 3: but I'm not a Todd Phillips fan in general. And

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Speaker 3: I think The Hangover if it was not for the

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Speaker 3: fact that it is so tremendously culturally and socially acceptable

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Speaker 3: to be entertained by like Asian racist Asian character stereotypes,

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Speaker 3: then I think we would all view The Hangover.

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Speaker 4: In a different light.

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Speaker 3: But I find The Hangover to be I can't it's unconscionable,

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Speaker 3: Like I just can't watch a movie with that character

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Speaker 3: who I won't even name in it, And so ever

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Speaker 3: since then, I've been pretty anti Ti Phillips, and I'll

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Speaker 3: admit it, I'm enjoying the downfall. So I just want

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Speaker 3: to put my biases, my pincial biases out there.

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Speaker 4: I am enjoying the downfall.

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Speaker 1: That's fat.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I think the guy.

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Speaker 3: I think he's a guy that you could question his

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Speaker 3: got his compass, his gut and his compass.

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Speaker 5: I would also say the interesting thing that I find here,

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Speaker 5: which does add credence to the Joaquin Phoenix that came

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Speaker 5: him in a dream. At the final line of the

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Speaker 5: Hollywood Report piece says in the end, some are saying

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Speaker 5: that Joker Foliod is a very expensive art film. What

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Speaker 5: they cost two hundred million dollars. Guys, that's not an

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Speaker 5: art film. But when asked to the intended audience was

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Speaker 5: one outside source sums it up this way, for Joaquin, this.

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Speaker 1: Is the movie he wanted to make. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if I believe that, but then again, you never know.

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Speaker 3: I think what you're seeing now is with so much

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Speaker 3: blame to go around, obviously people are going to go

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Speaker 3: into defensness mode. And I think part of defensiveness mode, certainly,

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Speaker 3: if you're person aligned with the studio or aligned with Phillips,

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Speaker 3: you're gonna say that.

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Speaker 4: Well, it was Joaquin, it was.

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Speaker 3: It's like it came from a dream from him, and

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Speaker 3: you know, like and and frankly, I don't. There's been

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Speaker 3: much written recently about how difficult it can be to

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Speaker 3: work with Waquin and the fact that he changes his

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Speaker 3: mind a lot and pulls out of projects at the

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Speaker 3: last minute.

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Speaker 4: Whatever.

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Speaker 3: I think that this that putting it all on Joaquin

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Speaker 3: because he had a dream about something is really funny, but.

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Speaker 5: Also cannot be the entire that's completely ridiculous is because also, like,

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Speaker 5: we all have crazy ideas and then you know, yeah,

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Speaker 5: we work for on a film for two years so

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Speaker 5: that the crazy ideas are not the central point and

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Speaker 5: we make a movie that people might actually want to see.

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Speaker 5: I also want to mention, let's kind of let's move

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Speaker 5: on to the to the now we're here. There was

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Speaker 5: lots of reporting about The Joker making forty million dollars.

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Speaker 1: It did not make four million dollars.

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Speaker 5: To man, it made thirty seven point eight million dollars domestic,

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Speaker 5: and I mean that's a has a disaster that costs

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Speaker 5: two hundred million dollars.

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Speaker 1: It received a Dcinemas score Madam web May I mention

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Speaker 1: it got.

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Speaker 5: A C plus C plus and The Basement under Madam

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Speaker 5: under Madam Web. And not only that, let's look at

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Speaker 5: the way that this is being reported on and talked about.

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Speaker 5: Because Folioda opened with thirty seven point eight million. That

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Speaker 5: opened behind DC's The Flash fifty five million. Remember when

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Speaker 5: everyone was trying to tell us that was the best

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Speaker 5: superio movie ever made.

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Speaker 1: We saw through that. I'm very proud of us. It

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Speaker 1: also opened.

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Speaker 5: Behind Marvel Studios The Marvels at forty six point one million,

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Speaker 5: which was seen as an absolutely huge flop, but then

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Speaker 5: went on to become one of the most watched movies

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Speaker 5: on Disney Plus and is widely seen now as a

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Speaker 5: rather fun movie that perhaps didn't get its fair shape.

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Speaker 1: But this is the real pain. If I'm Todd.

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Speaker 5: Phillips and I'm sitting in my ranch and I'm really

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Speaker 5: rich and I'm doing whatever I do. If I'm Todd

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Speaker 5: Phillips watching the Hangover movies, this is the one that's

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Speaker 5: going to pain me. Because it came in behind Morbius,

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Speaker 5: this movie Joker Too. Folioder made less money than Mobbius.

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Speaker 5: Mobbius made thirty nine million dollars was seen as a

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Speaker 5: huge flop, even though it was relatively inexpensive compared to folioda.

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Speaker 1: But I mean Mobbs is also a terrible movie, but

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Speaker 1: it did inspire many memes. It gave many of us

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Speaker 1: a lot of joy with the mob cord.

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Speaker 5: And it's as I, as I texted a friend, joker too,

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Speaker 5: folio dirt couldn't even make one more billion, couldn't even

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Speaker 5: make one more billion, couldn't even beat morebius, you know.

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Speaker 5: So I think that is very interesting, and I'm also

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Speaker 5: I've been I've been happy and kind of encouraged to

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Speaker 5: see the way that people's critical thinking is playing out

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Speaker 5: as people kind of compare the way that this is

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Speaker 5: being reported on to something like The Marvels, which obviously

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Speaker 5: cost less money and also was directed by a black

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Speaker 5: woman near the cot and kind of how different it

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Speaker 5: is when you're seen as an auta white guy and

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Speaker 5: when you're like a young, up and coming black film director.

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Speaker 5: So it's I'm glad to see people's critical thinking eyes out.

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Speaker 5: I as me and Jason actually said on the extras

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Speaker 5: episode that you can listen to if you want to

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Speaker 5: hear Joel and Jason's full reactions to the joke too,

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Speaker 5: which is hilarious. But as we said, I think this

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Speaker 5: is actually best case scenario for DC. No.

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Speaker 1: No, I think that it's great.

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Speaker 5: James Gunn's probably sitting at home feeling good about the situation.

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Speaker 5: No one ever wants a studio to that you work

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Speaker 5: for to lose hundreds of millions of dollars. But this

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Speaker 5: sets even though it puts more pressure on Superman when

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Speaker 5: it launches, it also sets them up for a clean

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Speaker 5: break away from this relatively messy.

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Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's it's perversely best case

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Speaker 3: scenario for gun and Saffren, who can say and have

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Speaker 3: built their careers on communicating. We understand this world. We

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Speaker 3: know we are fans of it. Therefore we understand what

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Speaker 3: fans will respond to, and we're not going to do

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Speaker 3: something that aggressively rejects fans and fans like we live

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Speaker 3: in this world. Well, it's been a it's been a

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Speaker 3: it's been a delight talking about the Joker fall out.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure there's more to.

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Speaker 5: Come Joker fully into Yes, I'm sure this mom would

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Speaker 5: come now into the Rings of Baalah.

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Speaker 3: Rings of Power Season two is now finished, and we

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Speaker 3: wanted to take the opportunity to answer a bunch of

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Speaker 3: questions from our disc chord about the series in the

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Speaker 3: show just to kind of tie up any loose ends

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Speaker 3: that folks might have after season two of Rings of Power.

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Speaker 3: So let's start here with a question actually from our

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Speaker 3: super producer Joel.

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Speaker 4: Who's Barmoth.

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Speaker 3: I've watched every episode of the series, I've never read

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Speaker 3: the books. Who's been torturing Gotzora? And and why is

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Speaker 3: more Goth important?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so more Goth is. Basically they explain this like in.

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Speaker 5: The first two minutes of the first season of the show.

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Speaker 5: In the first episode, he's basically one of the kind

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Speaker 5: of omnipotent Valor and the primary antagonist of what is

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Speaker 5: known as like Tolkien's Legendarium, basically all the letters and

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Speaker 5: stuff that this is based on. He is originally the

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Speaker 5: most powerful of the Valor, and then he kind of

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Speaker 5: rebels against the god who creates everyone in a lucifer

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Speaker 5: esque term, and then sparks this kind of evil across

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Speaker 5: the world of the Ardor or Middle Earth, And it's

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Speaker 5: kind of just like he was the original sourn Or,

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Speaker 5: the original you know, bad guy in this universe, and

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Speaker 5: he was the one who originally actually like got the elves,

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Speaker 5: got the humans on the side of him, and caused

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Speaker 5: the war that they were still dealing with post at

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Speaker 5: the beginning of this show. So he was the original

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Speaker 5: Big Bad also known as Melchor, which was like his

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Speaker 5: original name.

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Speaker 1: So he's basically the original Big Bad.

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Speaker 5: But there's there's not like a lot known about him

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Speaker 5: because a lot of this stuff is just stuff that

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Speaker 5: was in the Sumerian and Baron and Luthian and like

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Speaker 5: little bits of what became the epic of kind of

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Speaker 5: Tolkien's Law. So he's basically the original sin. Yes, Tolkien's Wild,

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Speaker 5: that's kind of what it is. And with him, he

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Speaker 5: he creates.

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Speaker 1: The opportunity for other evil like Sourn to exist.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: He is the source basically of all evil in Middle

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Speaker 3: Earn basic, you know, because Sarn picks up his mantle

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Speaker 3: and then continues forth. But he's basically the person that

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Speaker 3: let evil into this realm. There's a big war with

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Speaker 3: men and elves and he's ultimately defeated, and that's where

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Speaker 3: we find our story. Angie from the Discord asks, I'm

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Speaker 3: so glad we're not drawing out the is the stranger

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Speaker 3: Gandolf or a blue Wizard or something else. Personally, I

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Speaker 3: love this version of Gandalf but if I'm sticking to

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Speaker 3: the text, Gandalf isn't supposed to be around in the

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Speaker 3: second age. Does this feel wrong to you? How do

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Speaker 3: you explain why no one in the world of elves

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Speaker 3: or men new Gandalf's existence for an entire age. Good question.

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Speaker 3: I think it's because Gandolf is going to disappear again.

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Speaker 5: Oh, I like that. That makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 5: You think, like probably season three, at some point, he's

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Speaker 5: just going to disappear.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's just going to be chilling.

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Speaker 5: With the half foot's helping them found the Shia, kind

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Speaker 5: of keeping to himself.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean this is a big deviation from

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Speaker 1: the text. But I will say personally, I.

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Speaker 5: Think it works. I think that the vibe of the

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Speaker 5: show makes it work. And honestly, like waiting for the

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Speaker 5: Istar to arrive wouldn't have made sense in the context of.

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Speaker 1: The show, So I think it works for me. But

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Speaker 1: I like your idea that he's gonna disappear.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it works for me too.

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Speaker 3: And who knows, like how canonically they've you know, subtly

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Speaker 3: been changing a lot of stuff, honestly, so who knows

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Speaker 3: how canonically quote unquote correct this is going to be.

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Speaker 3: It does not bother me that much. But if I

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Speaker 3: was thinking, well, how could they make this correct, I

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Speaker 3: think that what will happen is Gandalf at some point will.

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Speaker 4: In the course of a.

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Speaker 3: Battle or something, sacrifice himself, you know, be destroyed. Air

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Speaker 3: quotes disappear, and that's why no one really knows he

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Speaker 3: was around, because he was only here for a very

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Speaker 3: brief time, and even briefer if you consider that period

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Speaker 3: of time in which he knew who he was, which

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Speaker 3: is gonna be yeah, I mean quite a short period

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Speaker 3: of time.

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Speaker 5: We could definitely see a season three where it disappears

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Speaker 5: in the first episode, yeah, or something like there's a

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Speaker 5: version of it where he's not even a really big part.

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Speaker 1: To explain this very same question, my name.

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Speaker 4: Is Dan asks.

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Speaker 3: Did Saron always have the plans to make the rings

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Speaker 3: or was that just kind of a right place, right

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Speaker 3: time thing and he just took advantage of it?

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Speaker 5: Rosie, you know what, this is like a good question,

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Speaker 5: right because I because it's never really been wondering about this. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: my understanding is like I do think that he had

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Speaker 5: a plan to make to find a way of like

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Speaker 5: controlling the men, and I think my understanding is in

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Speaker 5: the books, he is looking to make the rings, but

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Speaker 5: he doesn't know how to make them, so he needs

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Speaker 5: the elves to help him. So I think I think

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Speaker 5: it's kind of a mixture of both, like he needed

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Speaker 5: a tool to control men and elves and people, but

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Speaker 5: I think that he also.

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Speaker 1: Was like, oh, here's Keller Brimble, this will help me.

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Speaker 3: I agree with you. I think that it taken what

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Speaker 3: we've seen in the show. He initially tries to use

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Speaker 3: more Goth's crown as the as the power talisman to

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Speaker 3: get everyone to rally around, and that doesn't work. He

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Speaker 3: gets tabbed with the crown, he dies and is goof

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Speaker 3: for hundreds of years. Like then, he kind of cobbles

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Speaker 3: together this ring idea and when it works he decides, as, all,

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Speaker 3: let's keep going with it. And then if you project

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Speaker 3: out to stuff we know that we haven't seen yet,

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Speaker 3: he actually has.

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Speaker 4: It's a it's.

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Speaker 3: Quite a long time between the creation of the rings

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Speaker 3: until he decides, well, let me make the one ring

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Speaker 3: that controls all the rings. So that happened, that's a

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Speaker 3: while in the future, and then he has the one

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Speaker 3: ring for again quite a long period of time before

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Speaker 3: he is then eventually destroyed. So it strikes me that

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Speaker 3: he is kind of improvising as he goes along.

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Speaker 1: He definitely is.

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Speaker 5: And also it's because because of his defeat at the

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Speaker 5: end of Lord of the Rings, it's unclear what his

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Speaker 5: like whole plan was, Like we know he wanted to

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Speaker 5: make Middle Earth efficient and reshape mid Earth kind of

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Speaker 5: in the vision of Malchor, but like, did he want

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Speaker 5: to bring more goof back?

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Speaker 1: Like did he want to rule alongside him?

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Speaker 5: Like there's a lot that's left up to interpretation because

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Speaker 5: of the nature of the books. And it is kind

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Speaker 5: of fantastic to be in a space where we get

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Speaker 5: to have all these questions because Tolkien.

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Speaker 1: Wrote like one line about something.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, I think it's I think it's a mixture

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Speaker 5: of a mixture of both. I do think sound's a

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Speaker 5: bit of an on the fly guy, but I also

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Speaker 5: do think he did want a tool to you know,

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Speaker 5: control Midlife. And also, like that's the nature of an

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Speaker 5: esoteric fantasy book. Sometimes a bad guy's plan is to

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Speaker 5: just make some pretty rings and use them to control people.

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Speaker 3: LSR one Oh, I wanted to talk about the kiss

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Speaker 3: between Galadia and Elrond. The only thing I hated was

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Speaker 3: the kiss that's his mother in law completely excluding get

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Speaker 3: Peliborne and in turn that Galadriel is Elrond's mother in law.

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Speaker 3: It's a tough look for a show that I continue

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Speaker 3: to dislike, but I am cursed with the knowledge.

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Speaker 4: I understand.

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Speaker 3: I get it that I understand. I personally think it's

430
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Speaker 3: worse that Galadriel was like, in some form of fashion

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Speaker 3: in love with Souron's human form of Halbrand and continues

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Speaker 3: to be in the sway of this guy who is

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Speaker 3: he's a good looking guy, but really like what why

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Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand why she like, while fighting him,

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Speaker 3: can't continue the battle because Souron turns into the Halbrand form.

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Speaker 1: Like she doesn't want kind of it's like, who really

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Speaker 1: wants me more?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that bumps me more than but I but you're

439
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 3: but this is a reasonable thing to be bumped by.

440
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: I think it's very reasonable.

441
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 5: Also, I will say, as somebody who just like I

442
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 5: just love people kissing in TV shows, I did find

443
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 5: it realistic and also like, oh I'm glad they kissed.

444
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 5: But also I will I do say, I do think

445
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: a this is like elves are alive for so long.

446
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 5: I think there's this kind of mess probably happens all

447
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 5: the time in Elven relationships. Like, think about how messy

448
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,120
Speaker 5: it is to just be a human who's a life

449
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 5: for like forty years. Imagine if you were a life

450
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: for like thousands of years, the messy, terrible, accestuous things

451
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 5: that would happen in your community because you're all just

452
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 5: alive and there's only like, I know, one hundred elves

453
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 5: or something. Don't quote me on that, Tolkien stans. I'm

454
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 5: not saying they are only one hundred elves. I'm being hyperbolic.

455
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 5: But yes, I totally think this is rational to be

456
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 5: bumped by. But I personally, as a romantic sap, I

457
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 5: was like stoked that they.

458
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 3: Kissed Elso pilot. The relative humanization of the Orcs in

459
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 3: the series. We get to see their kids, we get

460
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 3: to see them raise their kids, we get to see

461
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 3: them sad over the deaths of their compatriots is really interesting.

462
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 3: Jason is a book reader, How does this hit you?

463
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 3: I liked it all though, you have to say, even

464
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 3: like pushing aside the many canonical changes, I think this,

465
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 3: in a weird way, could be the most significant change,

466
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: because it really upends the dark light, black, white, good

467
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 3: evil dynamic that Tolkien's books are anchored on, Like it's

468
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 3: anchored on a fight against complete total evil, and the

469
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: spawn of that evil are the Orcs. You should not

470
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 3: care about them, you should care about exterminating them. So

471
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 3: I think this is a really interesting thing. But I

472
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: also think that it has to be done with a

473
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 3: kind of reasonable and wise measure and an eye towards

474
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 3: balancing out the story. And I think they've done that,

475
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 3: but I think that it's definitely thing that you can

476
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 3: delve too much into and then you have like this

477
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,880
Speaker 3: completely other story. Yeah, and like what I'm seeing thus far.

478
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 5: I think the way they did it was really it

479
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 5: felt smart, and it didn't, you know, make you think

480
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 5: that every time you watch Lord of the Rings now

481
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 5: you're gonna be.

482
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: Like, oh no, what about the kids?

483
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 5: You know, which is obviously like when you start to

484
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 5: expand the law too much. But I do think it

485
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 5: actually plays on, you know, one of my favorite things

486
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 5: about the Peter Jackson movies.

487
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: Which is like you know, the Union AWC who's like Sarahmount,

488
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: we're working too many hours. Has been a little bit

489
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 1: of humanity there. But I think this makes sense. And also,

490
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: let's be real, we know that looking.

491
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 5: Back on books like this that were written, you know,

492
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 5: one hundred years ago, there are analogues and historical context

493
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 5: that can make some of these ideas about like dark

494
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 5: and light and the explicit nature of those be like

495
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 5: really just outdated and unpleasant.

496
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 1: So I think that adding a.

497
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 5: Little bit of context to the Orcs, and obviously that

498
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 5: comes with adding a DAR, you get this idea of

499
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 5: the Orcs.

500
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: As a community, whatever that means.

501
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 5: So yeah, I am not like a deep law book

502
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 5: reader like Jason, though I have done much and many

503
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 5: research for this podcast and also like writing, and obviously

504
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 5: I read the books when I was a kid because

505
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 5: I'm a nerd.

506
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, I as someone who now.

507
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 5: Is more of an outside enjoyer of this stuff, I

508
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 5: felt like that was a pretty cool addition that to

509
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 5: me as well, felt small enough that it didn't upend

510
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 5: anything else. It was just something that I thought was

511
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 5: actually kind of necessary in the context of the addition

512
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 5: they made with the DAR.

513
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 3: Hellican. I wonder if Kella brimbor Is warning will worry

514
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: souron over the course of season three, leading him to

515
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: want to create the One Ring to avoid betrayals. We

516
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 3: also have to see the nine be distributed. Yeah, I

517
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 3: think that while I don't think that Sorean is overly

518
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 3: concerned about anything Keller Brimboo has to say, I think

519
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 3: he feels like he was completely in control of that relationship. Yeah,

520
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 3: from start to finish. I also think that the Rings,

521
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 3: this is not his world, even though he has control

522
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 3: of in some form of fashion, has has used his

523
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 3: evil to tank the rings, the way they work, the

524
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 3: effects they have. This is not a realm that saarn

525
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: is steeped in. He needed Keli Brimbore the whole way

526
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 3: to do this. So I think that the One Ring

527
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 3: is going to be, to your point, a way for

528
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 3: him to solve whatever problems arise from the kind of

529
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: chaotic and random effects, the uncontrollable effects that the rings

530
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 3: have on the people that he wants to control. Yeah,

531
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,120
Speaker 3: you don't go through the the trouble of creating. Yeah,

532
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 3: the one Ring if the other rings that already exist

533
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: aren't imperfect in some way, so I think he's quite

534
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: clearly going to need to solve a problem by the

535
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 3: creation of that ring.

536
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

537
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 5: I also just want to say, like I'm just going

538
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,959
Speaker 5: to put this out there as my hope because I

539
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 5: love Charles Edwards and I love Keller Brimble. My dream

540
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 5: version now that this question has been asked in season

541
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 5: three is like I want Keller Brimble to like be

542
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 5: the ghost on his shoulder, Like I want to see

543
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 5: Charles ed would come back and be like mocking him

544
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 5: about the rings and like not being his conscience because

545
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 5: Saren doesn't need one, but almost continuing that kind of

546
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: banter and biting that the pair of them had because

547
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 5: it was so interesting. And maybe there's a version where

548
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 5: we could get him back because I just love those

549
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 5: guys so much.

550
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: That's it.

551
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for everybody who asked questions on our discord. If

552
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: you haven't joined our discord, think about joining up. It's

553
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: a wonderful community, super super fun, with a very positive,

554
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 3: very warm and welcoming community. We've had lots of other

555
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 3: people with interest similar to your own, who love talking

556
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: about this kind of stuff.

557
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 5: Next up, we've got an exclusive chat with Jennifer Hutchinson,

558
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 5: the writer of Rings of Power.

559
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 4: Jennifer, thank you so much.

560
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: For joining us, Thank you for having me season two out.

561
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 3: Now, what were the things that production was looking to

562
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 3: accomplish going from season one into season two, which currently

563
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 3: ninety two percent on Rotten Tomatoes.

564
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 4: Congratulate.

565
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, thank you.

566
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,000
Speaker 4: Yes.

567
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 7: So I think going into season two really just kind

568
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 7: of continuing to build those worlds that we had established,

569
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 7: particularly with our big reveal of you know, Soren's identity

570
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 7: at the end of season one and diving into now

571
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 7: this is a story of him really actively like enacting

572
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 7: a plan to kind of build his powers posted to

573
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 7: season one where he's like kind of like, I don't

574
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 7: know what.

575
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 6: Am I going to do this?

576
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 7: Uh, And then also obviously just sort of continuing the

577
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 7: level of you know, sort of production and production value

578
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 7: and making things feel even you know, bigger and more beautiful,

579
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 7: while also taking the lessons of season one as far

580
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 7: as like the realities of filming those things. Yeah, but

581
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 7: story wise, it was just like bigger saurn plans.

582
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 5: Well, you wrote, speaking of bigger sorem plans, you wrote

583
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 5: episode two one Alvin King's Under the Sky, which gave

584
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 5: us that kind of incredible, very brutal tone setting reintroduction

585
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:08,640
Speaker 5: of Sourn that kind of recontextualizes his history as we

586
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 5: know it and kind of hints at him being a

587
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 5: character who is willing to learn from his very violent mistakes.

588
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 5: Could you talk a little bit about the importance of

589
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 5: that cold open and also just getting to shift focus

590
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 5: fully now to Souron rather than the mystery of how

591
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 5: brand Now, like you said, he's here, he's doing evil,

592
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 5: He's ready to take over Middle Earth.

593
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 6: He's doing the thing. Yeah, yeah, No.

594
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 7: I was really excited to be able to do that opening,

595
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 7: which we had talked about doing for a long time

596
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 7: in this sort of backstory of Souron, because it's it's pretty,

597
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 7: it's very.

598
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 6: Open in kind of the text, and so.

599
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 7: Really it was about wanting to established just the nature

600
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 7: of his relationship with a Dar, who we spent so

601
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 7: much time with last season and who we knew kind

602
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 7: of had betrayed him in some way based on their

603
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 7: interactions at the when they met, but really kind of

604
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 7: setting up what that actually looked like, looking at setting

605
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 7: up what was Soren's plan that got stopped by a Dar, Like,

606
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 7: what was he planning to do as a way to

607
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 7: kind of inform hey, learning from the mistakes I've made,

608
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 7: as you said, but what is that plan going forward?

609
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 7: Also part of it too was just showing like the

610
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 7: extent of his sort of magic in the sense of like,

611
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 7: you know, he is, you know, very very much unkillable.

612
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 7: In the scene that we showed he seems dead, but

613
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 7: it takes quite a long time for him to come back.

614
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 7: That is actually supposed to be over a fairly extensive

615
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 7: period of time when he's goo and then before I mean,

616
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 7: you know, we did refer to it as you go

617
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 7: in the writers, before he reconstitutes fully and just showing

618
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 7: like how much that takes. And then also, especially for me,

619
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 7: the sequence once he's taken on that form of pal

620
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 7: brand of showing that conflict within of like do I

621
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 7: go right back to like kind of reclaiming my place

622
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,240
Speaker 7: and vengeance and you know, like trying to reclaim power

623
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 7: or is there another path that I could take? And

624
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 7: so that was really a nice thing to be able

625
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 7: to explore because then you I mean, you know, it

626
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 7: doesn't necessarily it doesn't change the story from season one,

627
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 7: but it informs it a little more of like where

628
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 7: was he when he met Galadriel and what to seeing

629
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: her and meaning her change for him in that moment.

630
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 3: I think one of my favorite things about this season

631
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 3: so far is how clever Saron is, What a what

632
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 3: a master manipulator he is, how cannily he is able

633
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 3: to target the thing that he knows someone is vain

634
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 3: about and talk to us a little bit about bringing

635
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: that part of it to life, because it seems like

636
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 3: it's just such a fun aspect of his character, like

637
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,720
Speaker 3: he's able to just understand, this is what this person

638
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 3: cares about. I'm going to use that to get what

639
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 3: I want.

640
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was something that we kind of always talk

641
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 7: talked about with Souran, is that he is very canny

642
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 7: and reading people and kind of understanding, as you said,

643
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 7: sort of like what it is that you know what

644
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,919
Speaker 7: their faults are, like what it is that they're those

645
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 7: points of weakness and being able to manipulate that. So

646
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 7: it is really fun because you know, we played a

647
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 7: little you play it. We played a little bit of

648
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 7: it in season one, but in a way that made sense.

649
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 7: It had to make sense for both Soren and Halbrind

650
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 7: If you look back at the season, everything he did

651
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 7: had to make sense for both, so you couldn't have

652
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 7: things he did that only made sense in hindsight is

653
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 7: sour and they had to be like in you know,

654
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,399
Speaker 7: they had to have that integrity for both characters or.

655
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 6: Aspects of the same character. We don't really have to

656
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:24,800
Speaker 6: do that now.

657
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 7: As far as those privileged moments with him, like we

658
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 7: can see what it is he's you know, really planning

659
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 7: to do. We're also having him expand his world as

660
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 7: far as like who he's targeting. Now he's no longer

661
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 7: playing this you know, halbrind like sad like you know,

662
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 7: washed up former air to a long broken throat, you know,

663
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,280
Speaker 7: that kind of thing, and is able to present himself

664
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 7: in this sort of more powerful aspect while also doing

665
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 7: It's funny because I feel like with Glad Real he

666
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 7: very much has this as equals kind of like like

667
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 7: you know, they they're kind of like bickery and you know,

668
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 7: like poking at each other a little bit in a

669
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 7: way that you do with someone that you feel is

670
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 7: really on your level. And then I feel like going

671
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 7: into this season, it's definitely more of that like love bombing,

672
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 7: like you know, like you're the most special person in

673
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 7: the world and you could be doing better, you know,

674
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 7: Like it's that thing like and that being able to

675
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 7: play that different way of manipulating, that different way of

676
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 7: getting what you want is always fun as opposed to

677
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 7: sort of a dar who is smart but brutal, you know,

678
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 7: like he comes in and he smashes you know, he plans.

679
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 7: It's a long term plan, but it's a it's a

680
00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 7: you know, a plan of might, like physical might, as

681
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 7: an overwhelm as opposed to the sort of messing with

682
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 7: someone's mind and you can get what you want from them.

683
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of our favorite characters has always been Keller Brimble,

684
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 5: mostly because I think we just we just like saying

685
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 5: his name, and Charlie Edwards is so fantastic. So obviously

686
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,439
Speaker 5: you kind of touched on this, like there is an

687
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 5: openness to what you guys get to do, but there

688
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 5: is also like established law. So one of the big

689
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 5: things we get to see here is the reveal of

690
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 5: Saron's anatar personality and this kind of idea of being

691
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 5: from beyond the valor, and and how that immediately kind

692
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 5: of beguiles Keller Brimble.

693
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 8: This is the magic he needed. He is that one person.

694
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 5: Could you talk a little bit about building that relationship,

695
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 5: because there's so many brilliant moments, and I think one

696
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 5: of the ones that really we loved and kind of

697
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 5: really struck us was when Keller Brimble decides he's gonna

698
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 5: just clo lie and say he's closing the forge and

699
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,399
Speaker 5: and that's as like you just lie to your king

700
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 5: like that, like what the fuck?

701
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,760
Speaker 1: Like he's even shocked.

702
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 8: By how quickly it works.

703
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 5: So could you talk a little bit about those two

704
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 5: and kind of Charlie and Charles working together on that.

705
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 6: Uh?

706
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 7: Yeah, First of all, I love Charlie and Charles, both

707
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 7: of them. They're just they're really wonderful guys and uh,

708
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 7: just such pros and so like great about understanding these

709
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 7: characters and their characters are so much.

710
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 6: But I love Kelbrin Borr as well.

711
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 7: Yea.

712
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 6: I love the way Charles plays him.

713
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 7: He's really fun to write because of because he is

714
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 7: this guy who is just so trying so hard to

715
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 7: live up to this standard that came before of.

716
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 9: Like basically like the greatest crafts for sort of all time,

717
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 9: like ever, like and and he's like, if only I

718
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 9: could make something as good as that, And it's like, buddy,

719
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 9: like you are doing really well. Do that, You're doing great,

720
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 9: You're doing great, And but I get it.

721
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 7: I mean sometimes there is like the race never ends, right,

722
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 7: And so I think setting up in season one when

723
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 7: he appeared as halbrand and calibrin bore that like from

724
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 7: a place of I'm a fan, like you know, as

725
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 7: like building him up of like oh my gosh, like

726
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,759
Speaker 7: look how amazingly talented you are, and then kind of

727
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 7: building on that where now he's in this sort of

728
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 7: elevated aspect and then it's like, see, I was always

729
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 7: a fan, but now I can show you you can

730
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,160
Speaker 7: be so much greater. And what's interesting about a character

731
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 7: like hel Brimboord to me is that is that ambition

732
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 7: is like such a flaw and ambition is one of

733
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 7: those things that can be both good and bad, and

734
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 7: it's finding when it tips and sort of sore on

735
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 7: in that aspect understanding just like how much of a

736
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 7: nudge he needs to give.

737
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 6: And I do love that idea of like you lied to.

738
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,319
Speaker 7: Your king, like he's calib because he's also calibrating as

739
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 7: he goes. Like the thing about Sourn for me too

740
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 7: is like he's a planner, but he is also extremely

741
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 7: flexible and can you know, pivot and read the situation.

742
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 7: And so as he's manipulating kel Brimboor, he's constantly adjusting

743
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 7: I think as he goes, and so you know, and

744
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 7: also there's also the secondary thing of like, wow, you

745
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 7: just lied to your king in a way that kind

746
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 7: of it makes them it's like a show of like

747
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 7: I'm impressed as well, you know, and yes they're collaborators now,

748
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 7: and so in a way that again kind of like

749
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 7: nudges that the like you're the most special boy.

750
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 6: Like you know, it really does kind of play into that.

751
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 7: And now they have a secret together, which yes, obviously

752
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 7: you know bonds.

753
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 9: People, but yeah, no, it is also it was I

754
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 9: did get to very briefly, uh be on set to

755
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 9: and I saw Charlie in his anatar.

756
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,840
Speaker 10: Like Gotta and it was like it was so it

757
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,759
Speaker 10: was really fun to talk to him while he is

758
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,839
Speaker 10: in this like and he's much He's much taller than

759
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 10: I had anticipated for some reason. I don't know why,

760
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,360
Speaker 10: because you never you can't tell on screens.

761
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 7: It's it's always like a relative thing. And I was

762
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 7: just like, I was actually a little dumb struck.

763
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 6: The first time I saw him. I was like, all right,

764
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 6: I get it. I got my calibri.

765
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 9: Bo would be like, yep, whatever you say, buddy.

766
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 3: I love when he's like, oh you haven't you haven't

767
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 3: heard about the rings?

768
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 4: People love this.

769
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 8: Is well known and just walk in save nobody told me.

770
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 7: Yeah, plays on two ways, because it's like you did

771
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 7: amazing work and also like they don't appreciate you.

772
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 3: You know, they don't appreciate you know, who would men?

773
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 5: I would what?

774
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:01,640
Speaker 4: Men would not stop talking?

775
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 5: I was feeling like very cold out because we are

776
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 5: always talking about like creator rights and comic book creator

777
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,800
Speaker 5: rights and the kind of the dangers of work for higher.

778
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 8: And Anata was giving like a full on us speech.

779
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:15,880
Speaker 5: He was like, isn't it isn't it interesting how the

780
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 5: workers they're always getting left behind and you do the work,

781
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 5: but the boss keeps the money, and like, shouldn't you

782
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 5: be getting some of that?

783
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 8: And I was like, wow, he's got a point, man,

784
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 8: he has me, He's got me.

785
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm in, I'm in.

786
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,920
Speaker 3: I wanted to zoom out for a second because I

787
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 3: was just thinking about your career and you've done so

788
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 3: much work that people really love.

789
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 4: Breaking bad better call Saul.

790
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 3: What could you talk about the challenge of writing characters

791
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:57,280
Speaker 3: like this, you know, dialogue characters and making it feel

792
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 3: right and natural for this story, making them feel lived in,

793
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 3: Because I was I was doing this all rewatch wonderful show, masterpiece,

794
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 3: loved it, heartbreaking still and at the same time, those

795
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 3: are you could imagine meeting a person like Saul. I

796
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 3: could never imagine meeting a person like Kili Brimble or Sarn,

797
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 3: and you bring them to life in such a magnificent way.

798
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: How challenging is it to write dialogue for characters like

799
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 3: this who are fantastical that will never meet.

800
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 6: Well, it's it's interesting.

801
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 7: It's an interesting thing because and it's funny you bring

802
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 7: up Saul and thank you. I was watching I just

803
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 7: this offhand. I was watching the show last night, Lord

804
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 7: of That Brings the Power with my husband last night,

805
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 7: and I was talking to him about Soren's arc while

806
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 7: we were going through, and I kept calling him Halbrind

807
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 7: because it was it's just so hard for me to

808
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,760
Speaker 7: call him Sorrow. And I had the exact same problem

809
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 7: on Better Call Saw at a certain point it was

810
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 7: so hard for me to call him Saul because he

811
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 7: was Jimmy and I didn't want him to be Saul,

812
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 7: and I.

813
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 9: Don't want Halbard to be so so so.

814
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 7: It's funny feeling that connection between those characters, because you

815
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 7: said they're very different worlds.

816
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 6: As far as writing that dialogue.

817
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 7: I mean, that's my that's my sweet spot generally is

818
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 7: I love writing character and dialogue and making them feel

819
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,760
Speaker 7: as real as possible and as emotionally grounded as possible.

820
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 7: I always said with Breaking Bad, people like, oh, how

821
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 7: could you write this, you know, fifty something drug dealer,

822
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 7: you know guy whatever, And I was like, yeah, I

823
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 7: mean I'm not a drug dealer. I'm not a you know,

824
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 7: fifty year old guy chemistry teacher who hates his life.

825
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 6: But you know, I felt overlooked.

826
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 7: I felt you know, angry, I felt all I felt desperate,

827
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 7: I felt all those things. And so that's where you

828
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 7: go to and so a character like Keili brimboor yeah,

829
00:46:57,640 --> 00:46:58,720
Speaker 7: you wouldn't meet that guy.

830
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,319
Speaker 6: But I mean I've felt overlooked. I've felt you.

831
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 7: Know, like, uh, there's something that I want to make

832
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 7: and I can't do it, like I can see it

833
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 7: like as writers, you know, as creatives like there a

834
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 7: lot of us have that thing of.

835
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 6: Like it's like it's I got it, but I can't

836
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 6: make it happen. Uh. So that to me is really relatable.

837
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 7: And so I just kind of right from that perspective

838
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,200
Speaker 7: of like I find what is emotionally driving these people,

839
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 7: and what are the relationships, Like what are those relations

840
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 7: I love relationship dynamics and like friendships and rivalries and

841
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 7: all those things.

842
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 6: I love an awkward dinner like all that stuff, and

843
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 6: I got to do one in every show. It's great.

844
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: It is.

845
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 6: It is.

846
00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 7: Where the dialogue is challenging is the language itself and

847
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 7: the meter and like the you know, like how woulden

848
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 7: elf talk?

849
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 6: Like you know, there's a fanciness to it.

850
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 7: And I've said this before that like when I'm writing

851
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 7: The Elves, I think about Gus Fring.

852
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 9: Because the traumatic But the thing is is like they

853
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 9: are a little bit opposite, because that's how you want

854
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:12,479
Speaker 9: to write Gus.

855
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 6: You want to write him as very like but he's not.

856
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 7: He's efficient, like he says like there's he doesn't say

857
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 7: more than a word more than he needs. And the

858
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 7: Elves is kind of the opposite. They're very flowery, but

859
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 7: there is this sort of like very big picture, intelligent,

860
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 7: like kind of above it all that they share, and

861
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 7: there is an efficiency with sort of what they say

862
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,880
Speaker 7: at its core, even though you know, the joke is

863
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 7: like they take months and months and months to kind

864
00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 7: of make a single decision. So it's weird because it

865
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 7: doesn't quite it's like it doesn't quite match. But for

866
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 7: some reason, like that helps me get into that headspace.

867
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 7: But you know, that's the hardest part again is that

868
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 7: that fancy pants dialogue, which again foresaw it was lawyer dialogue.

869
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 7: You know, there's always every show has some kind of

870
00:49:01,120 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 7: specialty that is hard if it's not your natural speaking.

871
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:13,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, well something like this is like a very specific

872
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 5: part of Rings of Power. But I'd be very interested

873
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,320
Speaker 5: to know how you approached it, because this feels incredibly

874
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 5: unique and it's something that we have been getting a

875
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 5: lot of laughs about because it's so enjoyable to watch

876
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 5: with the kind of dramatic irony of knowing what's going on.

877
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 8: But how do you put across the power of the rings?

878
00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:37,280
Speaker 8: Because something that is so enjoyable.

879
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 5: In watching these first three episodes is the different ways

880
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 5: that people interact with them that are so subtle and

881
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 5: so small. And there is not really any need for

882
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 5: explanation that these rings are powerful because we see it

883
00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,359
Speaker 5: in the characters Gilgalad, he just loves to stare it,

884
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 5: you know, he's just he's perceiving it constantly, you know, Galadria,

885
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,760
Speaker 5: it's about continuing that hero's journey.

886
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:04,960
Speaker 8: She feels like it's a tool that works.

887
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 5: You know.

888
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 8: Kia Dan, he was just like, oh, I love fishing,

889
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 8: Like this is great, you know, but like how do

890
00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 8: you how do you really drill into that.

891
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 5: Because it's it's almost a wordless performance a lot of times,

892
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 5: but it we just can't believe how obviously beguiled they

893
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 5: are with like this is so much fun to watch,

894
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 5: But how do you put that across in script and

895
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 5: then kind of translate it to those moments?

896
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 7: Yeah, I feel like in script it really is just

897
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 7: kind of sort of really making sure that it's coming

898
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 7: through in your sort of descriptive lines and action lines

899
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 7: of the feeling of that these rings elicit. Like for

900
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 7: Kardin when he you know, in episode one, when he's

901
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,399
Speaker 7: on the boat he's got the back, Like a lot

902
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 7: of that was related to as he watches the sunset

903
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 7: and that light that Emane's from Mallanor and like seeing

904
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,840
Speaker 7: that again and connecting it and likeing that like direct

905
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:03,720
Speaker 7: connection between the light.

906
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 6: And I think.

907
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 7: We tried to do it with like sort of the

908
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 7: physical world of like the obvious like oh and the leaves,

909
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 7: you know, But then the characters and and I think

910
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 7: the actors too, you know, have to kind of build

911
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 7: their own relationship with with their rings, and a lot

912
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:28,319
Speaker 7: of that happens just sort of in like those conversations

913
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 7: and and and and working on that.

914
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 6: It's funny the thing about like looking at the ring,

915
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,279
Speaker 6: I mean that would be me. I would. I mean,

916
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 6: I have a ring on now and I'm like, oh,

917
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 6: that's a really that's a pretty ring. And I don't know.

918
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 8: How you say that. I'm like I do often look

919
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 8: at my rings like oh, it's looking good.

920
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 11: Yeah.

921
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 6: And and you know, Gil Gallad has a lot.

922
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,919
Speaker 7: Of rings, so you know it's like so like dude

923
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 7: likes his rings, and so it kind of as I

924
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 7: think there is also what you want to do is

925
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 7: you want to show that sort of increasing over time,

926
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 7: you know, like like like the physicality of it. And

927
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 7: you know that plays definitely in you know other characters

928
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,759
Speaker 7: whose rings are maybe slightly more you know, nefarious in

929
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 7: their in their powers.

930
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 4: You know.

931
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:23,800
Speaker 7: But I to me, that's such a wonderful opportunity performance wise,

932
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 7: because you know, actor like I love the idea of

933
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 7: you know, actors having those narratives of like what they're

934
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 7: feeling and thinking, as well as what we're trying to

935
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:33,879
Speaker 7: get through.

936
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 3: Let's talk about Cure down new for this season for

937
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 3: a second. Rosie touched on it. We just love the

938
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 3: way the rings are subtly exploiting people's weaknesses and affecting them.

939
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:48,560
Speaker 4: You know.

940
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 3: For Gil, it's just like I did it.

941
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:57,840
Speaker 4: I did it, I knew it all along. I'm that

942
00:52:58,000 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 4: guy that would do it.

943
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: And for Cure, it's interesting because he's, you know, everybody's

944
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,239
Speaker 3: like the wisest. You're the wisest, You're the oldest. And

945
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 3: you could feel him after the ring comes into his

946
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 3: possession being.

947
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 4: Like, yeah, hold on, I am the worst.

948
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 3: I want to keep this and that must be right

949
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 3: because these and I'm so wise. Yeah, and talk to

950
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 3: us about creating this character who we see immediately fall

951
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: under this way of the ring just.

952
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,280
Speaker 8: Seeming like a very logical kind of very well.

953
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,400
Speaker 7: He is, And I love the think of it. One

954
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,440
Speaker 7: of my favorite things about Croden and the idea of

955
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 7: like this must be right, I am old and wise

956
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 7: is like I don't think that. Like he doesn't use.

957
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 6: That currency very often, you know, like he's just like.

958
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:50,680
Speaker 7: Chilling out making his boats, being the last guy who

959
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 7: gets to go home, you know, and being like sad

960
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 7: on the inside about it, but like he doesn't ever

961
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 7: be like all.

962
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,920
Speaker 6: Right, guys oldest and wisest like to talk about it.

963
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 7: And so for him to like use that currency then

964
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 7: and be able to back it up with like and

965
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 7: look they worked, I.

966
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 6: Think is like really good to me. That's kind of.

967
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 7: Fun of like it helps the sort of thing of

968
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 7: why people sort of would would would would easily use

969
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 7: that as like a justification too, like well, if he's

970
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 7: on board, then it's okay. But it also sort of

971
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 7: hits why it's so hard for l Ron's you know,

972
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 7: because it's.

973
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 6: Like such a blow.

974
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,600
Speaker 7: And you know, the thing with Curtin is like he

975
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 7: knew l Ron's parents, and like, you know, there is

976
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 7: that like he is so revered generally, but for l

977
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 7: Ron specifically, he's so important, and so I think it

978
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 7: helps also make that like that feeling of betrayal or

979
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 7: disappointment like really ring more like on a more devastating

980
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,360
Speaker 7: level for him. The other thing about Cydon that's interesting

981
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:09,239
Speaker 7: to me is sorry, guys, my batteries by headset just

982
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 7: went like wonky on me. Can you hear me, Yes, Okay,

983
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 7: all right, so I'll go back to what I was saying. Yeah,

984
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 7: So the thing with Curtin that's also interesting is he's

985
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 7: so like chill and like he's not in a rush,

986
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 7: like because he's you know, he's the oldest. He's very

987
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 7: much about his boats and you know, like chasing perfection,

988
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,160
Speaker 7: but in a different way than Calibrimble. He's like, oh,

989
00:55:40,239 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 7: it cannot be achieved, like it only exists in this realm,

990
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 7: and so I think that thing of like, but no,

991
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 7: he has brought it here. Like that kind of changes

992
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 7: this whole world in a lot of ways too. It

993
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:52,600
Speaker 7: just like totally up ends kind of the way he's

994
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 7: looked at things and that piece that he's found of like, well, no,

995
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,239
Speaker 7: this is the only perfection there is, and i can

996
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 7: get as close as possible, but I've just got to

997
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 7: be happy with this. And then these rings come in.

998
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 7: So so that's also really kind of an a dynamic

999
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 7: that I enjoyed with that character.

1000
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and obviously, like you kind of you mentioned Land,

1001
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 5: he's such an important part of the show.

1002
00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,000
Speaker 8: In the first season, we got.

1003
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 5: To see that brilliant loyalty that he had to Galadriel

1004
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 5: and then that first betrayal when he realizes that she's

1005
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 5: made this terrible mistake, and really, by like the third

1006
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:30,239
Speaker 5: episode of season two, we're just feeling for this guy

1007
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:31,319
Speaker 5: because everyone.

1008
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 3: Else is under the spekal He's he has just the

1009
00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 3: one sensible person who's like, guys, this doesn't make any sense, Like,

1010
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:40,160
Speaker 3: don't he Sara Un touch the ring?

1011
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 8: Just leave the rings? Like what was it like to kind.

1012
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 5: Of have him take on that role almost of almost

1013
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 5: of an outsider, but he still has this love and

1014
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,800
Speaker 5: loyalty for the for his community, and it's going to

1015
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 5: keep him entangled. But he is almost like the audience

1016
00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 5: endpoint because we have that dramatic irony of no what's

1017
00:57:01,040 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 5: going on, but so does he even when anybody else

1018
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 5: can see it.

1019
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:07,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, I think in season one, I

1020
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 7: think we really tried to establish too that he's already

1021
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 7: a little bit on the outside just by nature of his.

1022
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 6: Family, and so it's like sort of a natural thing.

1023
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 7: And he's a guy who is like so often because

1024
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 7: you feel a little bit of an outsider in a group,

1025
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,800
Speaker 7: you're like, I got to be the best at being

1026
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 7: a member of this group to show and to prove,

1027
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:32,640
Speaker 7: and so I think that's a lot of wrapped up

1028
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 7: in his identity as well. And so to go against

1029
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 7: his king, to go against everybody else, that's a huge,

1030
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 7: huge thing.

1031
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 9: But he's also the type where he's very much like,

1032
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,760
Speaker 9: but no, this is what's right, and that's what I

1033
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 9: have to protect, even if it puts me.

1034
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 6: Against you know, my people and where I'm supposed to be.

1035
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:57,560
Speaker 7: So for him, I think he's always like looking at

1036
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 7: like the the ideal, uh, what is right, like like

1037
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 7: the end goal as opposed to and and how do

1038
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 7: I thus defend my position while also being like great

1039
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 7: politician and so, which is also part of his thing,

1040
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,920
Speaker 7: and so you know, but those have always aligned, and

1041
00:58:16,960 --> 00:58:19,160
Speaker 7: so now the season is very much like they don't

1042
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 7: align anymore, and so now he has to like really

1043
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 7: go out on a limb.

1044
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 6: But what's interesting is like.

1045
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 7: He is kind of right in a lot of ways.

1046
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 7: It's like, yes, the rings were untouched by sourn, but like.

1047
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: It was his idea. There is an alloy plan that

1048
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 1: was his. You know.

1049
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,800
Speaker 4: That's like to talk about.

1050
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: The don't give credit.

1051
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 6: He doesn't.

1052
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:44,920
Speaker 7: I mean he should have known, but like you know,

1053
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:50,680
Speaker 7: sometimes we're too close we just don't see thee but yeah,

1054
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 7: so uh, I think it really is like making.

1055
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 6: Him question kind of everything that he's believed.

1056
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 7: And and looking towards his elders and his examples and

1057
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 7: seeing them fall for this thing. I think is it's

1058
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 7: a I think this is a really devastating season for

1059
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:09,440
Speaker 7: him in a lot of ways as far as his

1060
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 7: beliefs and the world that he's built. But you know,

1061
00:59:13,520 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 7: there's beliefs and then there's sort of your moral center,

1062
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 7: and he's that's what he's doing, is he's trying to

1063
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 7: be as true to that moral center as he can

1064
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 7: be and losing all his friends in the process.

1065
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 3: Finally, television writing is such a collaborative process. I wonder

1066
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 3: if if you could analyze Calibrimboor's collaborative abilities and tell

1067
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 3: it what would he be like in a right because

1068
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 3: any we joke about it a lot, but like he

1069
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 3: couldn't the alloy plan as far as he's concerned. He came, yeah,

1070
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 3: that was like he he's not going to mention that

1071
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,920
Speaker 3: in the future that yeah.

1072
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 7: See the writer who kind of repitches the pitch that

1073
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 7: you made. It's like if I does say knowledge that

1074
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:11,680
Speaker 7: you you or the one who made it.

1075
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:14,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I know that person. What would he be

1076
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 6: like in a writing room?

1077
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,080
Speaker 7: I feel like he would be a lot of fun

1078
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 7: and like jovial. I feel like he would be the

1079
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 7: one who holds up the lunch order, you know, like

1080
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 7: it's like extra picky about it. It's like we've been

1081
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 7: to that place too many times, but while being like

1082
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 7: but yeah, but also like really fun and you know,

1083
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,200
Speaker 7: brings in, like you know, tells great stories. But I

1084
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 7: also think he's maybe the guy who is, uh, you'll

1085
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 7: pitch something, He'll be like, no, that won't work, but

1086
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 7: like does not pitche you know, like so Or, you know,

1087
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 7: like that person and like he'd mean well, but that's

1088
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 7: like that's the shut the room down person, so Or Or.

1089
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 7: The corollary is he's the guy who's like but no,

1090
01:00:58,280 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 7: I you know, he would defend his.

1091
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 6: Wain to like the bitter end in a way that

1092
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 6: would shut out It's like you just don't see it.

1093
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 7: It's like you just don't see it, and it's like, well, yeah,

1094
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 7: that's because maybe it's not there.

1095
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 6: But I also think he would.

1096
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,440
Speaker 7: Be a blast, like because he knows all these people

1097
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 7: and he is absolutely the guy you like put the

1098
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 7: put the quarter in and he just goes, you know, like.

1099
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 6: So then what happened?

1100
01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 4: And then it was a high king.

1101
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 6: I know him.

1102
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 7: He knows everybody, right, Yeah.

1103
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jennifer, thank you so much for joining such a joints.

1104
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 5: We are launching a new segment on x ray Vision

1105
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,080
Speaker 5: today called x ray Goggles, and this is inspired by

1106
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,200
Speaker 5: the Marvel No Prize in which Stanley set up a

1107
01:01:48,200 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 5: prize where you didn't get a prize for pointing out

1108
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 5: factual inaccuracies within Marvel comics. And we are also inspired

1109
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 5: by the ESPN segment that Jason will name drop in

1110
01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 5: a moment to go through these, and we're gonna call

1111
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 5: you out and say well done for catching us in

1112
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 5: a mistake. And we're gonna put a channel in the

1113
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 5: discord so you can go in there and you can

1114
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 5: put anything you catch us out on in that. Because

1115
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 5: we're just normal people, We're gonna make it fun for you.

1116
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 5: So these are the x ray Goggles.

1117
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: Put them on.

1118
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 5: If you catch a mistake, you might find yourself getting

1119
01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 5: a shower out at the end of the episode, going

1120
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 5: into the credits.

1121
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 3: From here on out here we go, first up Frosty

1122
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 3: from our Discord pointed out in our recap of Agatha

1123
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 3: Along that it was actually Agatha who turned it on

1124
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 3: the mic in the studio, which I thought I said,

1125
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:37,440
Speaker 3: but maybe I didn't that teen was actually injured by

1126
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 3: the shard of glass. In our defense, I was typing

1127
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 3: and looked up and whatever we got her up. Next,

1128
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 3: Jacks make One from our discord pointed out that while

1129
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,040
Speaker 3: Echoes of Wisdom is the first canonical Zelda game where

1130
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,520
Speaker 3: you could play Zelda, the first time you could actually

1131
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:57,560
Speaker 3: step into Zelda's shoes was in Philip Media's nineties trilogy

1132
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 3: of Zelda's game Zelda games for the CD format, including

1133
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 3: Zelda Wand of Gamalan and Zelda's Adventure. You can also

1134
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 3: play Zelda in Hiro Warriors and Super Smash Brothers. Patrick

1135
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 3: mess twenty one twelve, which is a Rush the band

1136
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 3: Rush reference, who points out in our Penguin one oh

1137
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,720
Speaker 3: three episode mentioned we would talk Joker folly to do,

1138
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 3: but then we didn't. But boy have we now.

1139
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 1: We got it. That was an editing mistake. But now

1140
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,200
Speaker 1: we're talking about Patrick.

1141
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 3: I hope you're satisfied with the continuing coverage of the

1142
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 3: folly bomb that is happening currently in our culture. Also,

1143
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 3: to go back even further, Matt at get On on

1144
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,480
Speaker 3: Discord made a few corrections on our discussions of Magic

1145
01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 3: the Gatherings Commander Advisor Group and expanded some of the

1146
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:52,240
Speaker 3: details around the underlying story of that particular release. Thank

1147
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 3: you to anyone who pointed out some of our factual mistakes.

1148
01:03:56,440 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 3: Join our discord to continue to tell us.

1149
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,240
Speaker 4: How we fucked up, we fucked up.

1150
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 6: Less.

1151
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 3: That's it for this episode.

1152
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:07,080
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

1153
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 11: Bye x ray Vision is hosted by Jason Kisupsion and

1154
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 11: Rosie Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.

1155
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman.

1156
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 4: Our supervising producer is a Boo Zafar.

1157
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 3: Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor.

1158
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,920
Speaker 4: Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

1159
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 5: Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman

1160
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 5: and Heidi on discolled Moderata