1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 2: Nigeria's biggest city is demolishing two densely populated waterfront communities 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: to make way for urban renewal, displacing thousands of impoverished 4 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: residents in the process. More than ten thousand people have 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 2: been displaced since December, with campaigners saying many are now 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: forced to sleep in dangerous conditions. 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: See look at them. 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: All of them are in the boots they like, but 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: they even know where we're going to do. This is 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: very bad. 11 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 3: Did you spread your whole community? 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: On today's podcast, we're looking into what's behind these demolitions, 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: why some residents have rejected compensation, and how extensive the 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 2: urban renewal program could be. I'm t youa Adebayo and 15 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one story 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: each week from the continent driving the future of global 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:06,880 Speaker 2: growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide well. Jennifer 18 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:09,760 Speaker 2: is away reporting. I'm in the presenter's chair this week 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 2: and joining me is our Nigeria Bureau Chief Anthony A. 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: Si Brown and Tony Foller A Lade, chairman of investment 21 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: firm Crown Holdings and co founder of charity Do get Africa, 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: which has seen one of its schools in the affected 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 2: area demolished. Anthony, can you explain what's been happening to 24 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: these communities in Lagos over the last few weeks. 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: When you're going to the business district the Victoria Island, 26 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: you see Macoco on your right hand side, and is 27 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: this huge community of water based properties or rata based shanties. 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: The governmental call them chanties. But as people live there, 29 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: they do almost everything on the water. And that's the 30 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: interesting part about the community. They trade on water, the 31 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: school they have schools that are water. They do come 32 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: unity centers, health centers on water. But it is a 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: very poor community. It's like saying, it's a huge divide 34 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: between the very rich end of Legos and that's the 35 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: Victoria Island and then it's very poor community that is 36 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: just at the doorstep of the very rich end of 37 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: the city. So beginning of this year, the government decided 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: to start demolishing the properties there. The government claims that 39 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: those properties are under a high tension wire that's an 40 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: electricity wire that is not supposed to be built on 41 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: that and that the communities are supposed to be at 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: least one hundred and fifty to two hundred and fifty 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 1: meters away from those high tension wires, and so they've 44 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: been demolishing it, and so that has resulted in thousands 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: of people being displaced. And the are the very poor people, 46 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: very vulnerable people who have been displaced from this community. 47 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: Tony, let me turn to you now. Can you tell 48 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: me a bit more about the Do Good Africa School 49 00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 2: that was demolished in Macaco. 50 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: Absolutely, we built the school to take care of about 51 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 3: a thousand of the young children primary school children for 52 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 3: free in Macoco, which is one of the largest, if 53 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 3: not the largest, some communities in West Africa with the 54 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 3: population of about three hundred thousand people. However, there is 55 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 3: a grossly inadequate education and therefore we stepped in as 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: students and young professionals in Nigeria and the diaspora to 57 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: build a solution, with the school being called Part of 58 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 3: Solutions School launched in twenty twenty one. Our school is 59 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 3: about three hundred and eighty meters away from the power 60 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 3: lines in question, which was the pretext for the demolition 61 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: of Macoco. 62 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: And I know this is something you've been engaging with 63 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 2: the Lake of State government on for a while could 64 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: you talk us through your communications with them, did you 65 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 2: have any idea that this was coming? 66 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 3: In December twenty twenty four, there was a directive given 67 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 3: verbally about the thirty meter perimeter that has been often 68 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 3: quoted initially, and there have been conversations about one hundred 69 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 3: meter boundary, but nothing was clearly put in writing or 70 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: firmly confirmed to community leads as a directive, So the 71 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 3: thirty meter boundary was adhere to. It was even Nigeria 72 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 3: flags put up by the community to show that they 73 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 3: had stepped thirty meters back from the power lines. As 74 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 3: I said, federal law which supersedes Lago State law, makes 75 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 3: it clear that the boundary that's required is twenty five meters. 76 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 3: And then once the demolition started in December twenty twenty five, 77 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 3: is then when the Commissioner for Information for the Lago 78 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 3: State and the Permanent Secretary for Urban Development then began 79 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: to talk publicly about the one hundred to one hundred 80 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 3: and fifty meters boundaries. But no, the firm instruction to 81 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 3: the community was thirty meters. And as I can attest, 82 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 3: the school that myself and friends around the world funded 83 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 3: at the age of twenty two to build is almost 84 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 3: four hundred meters, more than fifteen times beyond the federal 85 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 3: boundary or the communicated boundary by the state, and a 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 3: thousand kids are without school and thirty orphans and now 87 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,280 Speaker 3: homeless and in need of relocation because of that. 88 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 2: Talking about that school and the children that it educates, 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: what's going to happen to them? 90 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 3: Now? 91 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: Are you working to rehouse them or to rebuild the school? 92 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,799 Speaker 2: What is the status of those affected children at the moment? 93 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 3: I think that the broader question, not just about their children, 94 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: is what happens to the three hundred thousand people in 95 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: that community. The free school is a painful example or 96 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 3: a case study of the broader trauma and displacement that's occurred. 97 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: But we are privately making great efforts as private citizens, 98 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,039 Speaker 3: as civil society actors to find alternative locations to be 99 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 3: able to rehouse the children. I've mobilized funds privately my 100 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 3: own and donor support from influential and wealthy Nigerians around 101 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 3: the world to find a site for the immediately affected children. 102 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 3: We can talk about where myself and my team would 103 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 3: like to relocate the children to and build a new school, 104 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: But the broader conversation is we don't know where is 105 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 3: appropriate and safe under the state's jurisdiction for us to 106 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 3: put those thousand children. But the broader ession is where 107 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: do the three hundred thousand people that live in this community, 108 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 3: the eighty thousand who've been displaced, where is safe and 109 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 3: sanctioned for them to be And no actor, whether the 110 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 3: people who are sleeping in canoes, who have had their 111 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 3: homes raised and set on fire and been evacuated with 112 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 3: tear gas, or the legally trained or those who can 113 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 3: mobilize the fund to support them, none of us have 114 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 3: clarity as to where we can house these people and 115 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 3: what the next steps forward is. 116 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: Anthony. What has the Lego State government had to say 117 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 2: about these demoinitions. 118 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:36,239 Speaker 1: One the Lego State government says they are demolishing because 119 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: these chances have under a high at tension wire. They 120 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: claim that they paid compensation and steepens to the people 121 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: were affected and have been displaced and are looking for 122 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 1: alternative places for them to move to. That's what the 123 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: Legal State goverment claims on They also claim that those 124 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: making tating over the displacement are mainly engiels who are 125 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: getting funding from foreigners. And are using it to because 126 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: that once this demolition goes ahead of because of the demolition, 127 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: they've lost their sources of income and that's why they're 128 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: agitating for the children or for the people who have 129 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: been displaced from these communities. So those are the claims 130 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: from the Leagus said government, and they claim they have 131 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: evidence of this, but they've not shared the evidence to 132 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: the with the media. As far as they know. The 133 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: fact on the ground is that thousands of people have 134 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: been displaced that they have nowhere to go to right now. 135 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean on the topic of that compensation, some 136 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: campaigners have been complaining that it's inadequate, but also the 137 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 2: government has said that the compensation is based on being 138 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: given to verified homeowners and also based on the type 139 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: of home that they live in. How complicated is that 140 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: to establish in a community like Macaco, where a lot 141 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 2: of the settlements are supposed they can you will shanty 142 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 2: towns of you've described them, and access to land deeds 143 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: and official documents may not be easy to come across. 144 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: What's the situation there. 145 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: Even with normal well built accommodations and legos, that's properties 146 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: in legos, getting titles on them is quite difficult not 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: to talk of chanties. So when you say you're compensating 148 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: people based on titles and documents, then basically you're not 149 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: compensated because there's no proper titling processes in Legos. 150 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: The government has long sort of talked about this question 151 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 2: of urban expansion through land reclamation, and they've made waterfronts, 152 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: which are typically for the poor, often into expensive and 153 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 2: exclusive housing. They give the likes of Banana Island. Are 154 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: there other areas where this is at risk of happening? 155 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: Thinking of places like Ilashe Beach and other waterfronts for example. 156 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: I remember I was doing the story last time that 157 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: there are no public beaches in Legos. And when we 158 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 1: say public beaches as beaches where people have free access 159 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: to like in most parts of the world, in Legos, 160 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: most beaches you have to pay to have access to it. 161 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: And that's basically because most of these public beaches have 162 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: basically been privatized. People have been displaced and given to 163 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: private or that. And it's the same thing that is 164 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: happening with a lot of water side properties. People are 165 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: being displaced. And if you have accommodation or properties in 166 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: if they are chances in water side properties, then you 167 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: know that the chances of being displaced is quite high. 168 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: The new road, the neil Legos Calabi express Way, led 169 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: to the displacement of thousands of people too, and these 170 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: are the side effects of organization. But then you would 171 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: have expected the government to have a more structured approach 172 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: in either demolishing these properties or complicating those who are affected. 173 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: Considering this country has some of the highest people living 174 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: like this, a number of people living in a stream poverty, 175 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: and so when you displace people without any form of conversation, 176 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: you just throw them deepack into a stream poverty. And 177 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: that's the situation that possibly the government needs to look 178 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: into properly going forward. 179 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: And Tony, let me turn back to you. What are 180 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: you hoping can happen now with your school and what 181 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 2: are you calling on the Lago State government to do. 182 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 3: There's much to be done, and this is not a 183 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 3: situation that can be resolved rapidly in the immediate It 184 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 3: is clarity on resettlement and compensation for the tens of 185 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: thousands of people who have been displaced. Beyond that, it 186 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 3: is acknowledgment and an investigation into the lives that have 187 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 3: been lost and adequate support for the families that have 188 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 3: been bereathed. But beyond that, I think it's a broader 189 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 3: conversation and dialogue at the highest levels of Nigerian power 190 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 3: and within everyday citizens about what the city of Lagos 191 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: is and can be and what we are country Nigeria 192 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 3: can be. I think this presents an amazing opportunity for 193 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 3: a legacy, for the Lego State government to partner with 194 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 3: the local community despite the history, and with civil society 195 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 3: actors like ourselves, to forge together a new vision for 196 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 3: Legos and for what inclusive urban development and renewable for 197 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 3: the poorest and most vulnerable can look like. And so, 198 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: although this is an incredibly tragic moment, there is an 199 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:29,880 Speaker 3: opportunity for here to put a milestone in Nigerian history 200 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,960 Speaker 3: and to show the international community of investors of policymakers 201 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: that Legos in Nigeria is a place that has a 202 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: respect for due process, has a respect for rule of law, 203 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: has a respect for the lives of the most vulnerable. 204 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: And I think together, if we can do that, then 205 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 3: Legos in Nigeria has a bright future and the people 206 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 3: of Macoco will get the honor and dignity they deserve. 207 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: You can read our reporting from Lagos on Bloomberg platforms now. 208 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: Here's some of the other stories from the region we've 209 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: been following. This week, South African President Cyril Ramaposa ordered 210 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 2: law enforcement agencies to investigate several senior police officers with 211 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: a view to potentially prosecuting them on criminal charges or 212 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: subjecting them to disciplinary action. The move followed allegations by 213 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: the head of police in the Kuwazulu Natal Province that 214 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: a criminal syndicate infiltrated South Africa's justice system and Total 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,319 Speaker 2: Energies is formerly restarting construction of a twenty billion dollar 216 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: liquefied natural gas project in Mozambique, ending a nearly five 217 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: year delay in developing one of Africa's biggest ever investments. 218 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: You can find these stories and more on Bloomberg platforms now, 219 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 2: including the Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to 220 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 2: that in our show notes. This program was produced by 221 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:53,200 Speaker 2: Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and review this show 222 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 2: wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm ta Adabio. Thank 223 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 2: you for listening.