1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. I'm Laura and I 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: writer and. 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 2: I'm Steve Drisen. 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: Sometimes farm life isn't as tranquil as it seems. Today 5 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,400 Speaker 1: we take you to small town, Nebraska, where two murders 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: shattered a peaceful Easter Sunday. This is the story of 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: Matt Livers, a case with more plot twists than I've 8 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: ever seen, a coerced confession, dirty cops who planted evidence, 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,319 Speaker 1: and a mysterious clue that led to a pair of 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,879 Speaker 1: natural born killers. This story gives Tarantino a run for 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: his money. Horrible crimes can happen anywhere, even where you 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: least expect it. And if you've learned one thing by 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: listening to this podcast, I hope it's that false confessions 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: can also happen anywhere, at any time. 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 2: I want them to learn a second thing. It's that 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 2: a confession is only as good as the evidence that 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 2: corroborates it. And in this case, it looked like there 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 2: was perfect corroboration. There was evidence that seemed to prove 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: the confession true. But what happens when new evidence surfaces 20 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,680 Speaker 2: that causes the confession to unravel? That makes the narrative 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 2: seem to be false. 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,520 Speaker 1: What do you do when a case like this starts 23 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 1: falling apart? Do you double down? Or do you fix 24 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: it up? Today's story begins in Murdoch, Nebraska. It's a 25 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: tiny town about halfway between Lincoln and Omaha. Murdoch is 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: barely more than a few dozen homes, surrounded by fields 27 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 1: of corn and the occasional outlying farmhouse. The population just 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,800 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty nine people, only sixty six families, 29 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: and one of Murdoch's most respected families was the Stokes, 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: headed by Wayne and Sharman Stoke, both in their mid 31 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: fifties when our story starts on Easter Sunday two thousand 32 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: and six. And now, Wayne and Sharman were good people, 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: god fearing, well known Murdock residents who lived in an 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,399 Speaker 1: immaculate farmhouse near town. Wayne was a successful businessman for years, 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 1: he'd run the Stoke Hay Company, growing bundling selling hay 36 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: to all the local farmers, and Sharman was a teacher's aid. 37 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: She ran a popular cake business out of their home. 38 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: So it's that Easter Sunday, April sixteen, two thousand and six, 39 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 1: it unfolded like many holidays for the Stokes. It was 40 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: a family occasion. That morning, Wayne and Sharman went to church, 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: followed by Easter traditions. Right they had brunch with their family. 42 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: They had an Easter egg hunt with their grandkids. It 43 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: was a lovely but unremarkable day, and Wayne and Sharman 44 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: went to sleep that night in their farmhouse as usual. 45 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: The next day, April seventeenth, rolls around. Wayne and Sharman 46 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: are early risers, but when their adult son, Andy arrives 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: at the farmhouse about nine am, he doesn't see any 48 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,839 Speaker 1: sign of his parents. He goes inside. He moves through 49 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: the tidy but silent first floor. He goes upstairs and 50 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: he finds the worst, his dad's body in a blood 51 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: spattered second floor hallway. Wayne's head had nearly been blown 52 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: away by a gunshot blast. Now Andy calls the police 53 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: and the Cass County Police arrive. Murdoch's Way too small 54 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: to have its own police force, and soon enough investigators 55 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: find a double tragedy, not only as Wayne dead, but 56 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: Sharmon's body is found in the bedroom, wedged between the 57 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: bedside and the wall. She's been shot in the head too, 58 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: and a phone court is wrapped around her body like 59 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: maybe she'd been trying to call for help. This was 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: a double murder of the worst kind, something that Murdoch, 61 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: Nebraska had never seen before. 62 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: Seasoned crime scene veterans and officers in the area looked 63 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: at this crime scene and it made them physically ill. 64 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 2: They had never seen so much carnage before, certainly not 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: in Murdoch, Nebraska exactly. 66 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: So as local police are this scene, processing this trauma 67 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: that they're seeing in front of him, they realize they're 68 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: in a bit over their heads, so they call in 69 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: the big guns. They call on the Crime Scene Investigation 70 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: Division of the Douglas County Sheriff's Office. It's basically the 71 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: state's leading crime scene forensic experts. Now, the investigators find 72 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: several items of interest at the scene. They find shells 73 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: from a twelve gage shotgun that are littered around the 74 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: whole area. They find a silver flashlight with blood on it, 75 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: and sitting in the Soaks driveway, there's a red and 76 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 1: silver marijuana pipe. Now, both the flashlight and the marijuana 77 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: pipe are potentially DNA testable. There's also a damaged window 78 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: in the Stokes laundry room. It suggests that maybe somebody 79 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: had broken into the house, and inside police observe in 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: the blood spray that had been left on the wall, 81 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: there's a human silhouette. It implies that there had been 82 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: two people present, one to shoot and one to get 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: sprayed by all that blood. 84 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 2: What a visual blood spray to human silhouette. 85 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: Exactly, It's like a movie scene. And on the otherwise 86 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: spotless kitchen floor, police find a golden ring with an 87 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: unusual inscription, an inscription that didn't seem to relate to 88 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: anyone in the Stoke family. It said love Always, Corey 89 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: and Ryan. 90 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 2: There's no signs and anything's been stolen from the house. 91 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: Wayne and Sharman's children can't pinpoint anything that seems to 92 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 2: be missing. That leads the police officers to believe that 93 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: this crime was not some random break in, but that 94 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: it was personal, that it was an act of vengeance, 95 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 2: and that whoever slaughtered the Stokes had an axe to 96 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: grind with them. 97 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 1: Police start asking Stoke family relatives who might have wanted 98 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: to harm Wayne and Sharman, and some of Sharman's family 99 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 1: members start wondering out loud about the person they thought 100 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: of as the black sheep of the family. Sharmon's nephew, 101 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: Matt Liver. Matt was twenty eight years old and had 102 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: no criminal record whatsoever, but he'd had his share of 103 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: challenges because of his severe mental limitations. Matt had struggled 104 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: with getting through school as a boy and trying to 105 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,360 Speaker 1: hold down a job as an adult. The Stokes were 106 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,600 Speaker 1: a family that prided themselves on their success and by 107 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: their standards, Matt Livers stuck out like a sore thumb. 108 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: He'd also argued recently with Wayne and Sharman about whether 109 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: he was getting a sufficient share of a family inheritance, 110 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: and it was this feud that made police focus on 111 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: Matt as a suspect in the Stokes murder. At about 112 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: ten forty five pm on the day that the Stokes' 113 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: bodies are discovered, the police decide to interview Matt Livers. 114 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: The interrogation lasts four hours until almost three o'clock in 115 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 1: the morning, but Matt tells the cops he's there to 116 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: cooperate and he has only good things to say about 117 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: the Stokes. He downplays this idea of a family feud 118 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: and that makes officers. 119 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 2: And he does what many people who are innocent do. 120 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 2: He says I want to cooperate. Take my DNA, take 121 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 2: my hair, take my saliva, take my fingerprints. I'll even 122 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 2: come back for a polygraph. I had nothing to do 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: with this. I'm an open book. 124 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: And based on all that, for the time being, Matt 125 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: Livers is released. Meanwhile, the police are interviewing others too, 126 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: and they do get a lead. Right there's a local 127 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: newspaper carrier who tells the police that he had seen 128 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: a car carked near the Stokes property on the morning 129 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: of the murders. It's a tan four door midsize sedan. Now, 130 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: this guy doesn't know whether the vehicle was related to 131 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: the crime or not, but he did recall seeing an 132 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: OH in the license plate. 133 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Now, Matt Livers drives a red convertible, but his cousin, 134 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: Will Sampson drove a tan four door Ford Contour, which 135 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: made investigators become suspicious. Now, Will's Contour didn't have an 136 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 2: O in its license plate, but oddly enough, it had 137 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 2: been professionally cleaned and detailed right after the murders, and 138 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: that gave the police reason enough to want to search 139 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 2: Will's car. 140 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: They even go to the auto detail shop itself. They 141 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: go through the vacuum bags that were used when Will's 142 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: card was cleaned, but they find zero incriminating evidence. Now 143 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: this is strange. The crime scene was incredibly bloody. It 144 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: would have been almost impossible even for the most professional 145 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: detailers to erase every molecule of evidence, but the investigators 146 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: found nothing. Despite all this, police are still suspicious. Now 147 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: they discover that Will Samson, the guy who owns the contour, 148 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: did have an alibi on Eastern night, which is when 149 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: the crime presumably occurred. But Nick Samson, another one of 150 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:55,319 Speaker 1: Matt Lever's cousins, did not have an alibi, and soon enough, 151 00:08:55,559 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: Matt Livers and Nick Samson become the prime suspects. Fast 152 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: forward to eight days after the Stokes' bodies are discovered. 153 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 1: It's April twenty fifth. Police ask Matt to come in 154 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: for questioning a second time, but this time they take 155 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: him an hour away to the Cass County Law Enforcement Center. 156 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: He is held there for questioning a total of eleven hours, 157 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: most of it video recorded. Now Matt doesn't know it 158 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 1: at the time, but he wasn't going to return home 159 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: for months because here comes the interrogation, the line of 160 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: questioning designed to break Matt livers. Let's just get this 161 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: out over. 162 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 2: Okay, we are watching. 163 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 3: You're in this up to your ears. 164 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: You were involved in it. We need to know what happened. 165 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 2: As typical in these interrogations, the investigators start by accusing 166 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: that of killing his aunt and uncle. It's not whether 167 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 2: or not you committed this crime, they say, we already 168 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,120 Speaker 2: know that. You have to tell us why you committed 169 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: this crime. 170 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: And Matt denies it right. He says, I'm not that 171 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: kind of person. All he remember is sleeping in my 172 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: bed that night. 173 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 2: I do. 174 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: He goes on to deny and deny and deny eighty 175 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: six times, and then, just as in so many other cases, 176 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: he offers to try to prove his own innocence. He 177 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: agrees to take a polygraph, which the police build up 178 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: to him as foolproof. 179 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: You answers and the questions that you're asked about. Matt 180 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 2: takes the exam. He's excited. He thinks he's going to 181 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 2: pass the exam and this will all be over. But 182 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 2: the polygrapher comes into the room and tells him that 183 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: he had failed this test miserably. 184 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: This way, when he continues denying his involvement, the police 185 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: can point to his test results as evidence of his guilt. 186 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: They tell him that these polygraph charts leave absolutely no doubt, and. 187 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 2: Holding the results in his hand, the Nebraska State Patrol 188 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: officer says to Matt, we ask you a question that 189 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: specifically has to do with the death of Wayne. You 190 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 2: fly off the chart. 191 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: Now, this is a lie. Like in so many of 192 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: these other cases, Matt did not actually fail this polygraph exam. 193 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:22,960 Speaker 1: It was confirmed after the fact by a polygraph expert. 194 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 1: But we know, as always the police are allowed to 195 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: lie during interrogations, and that's what they're doing here, lying 196 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 1: to him about lying again. 197 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,319 Speaker 2: It's like seeing the same script play out over and 198 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: over and over again. In these stories. 199 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: The whole point is to bring Matt Livers down to 200 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 1: this place of hopelessness. 201 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 2: Nebraska is a death penalty state, so what do the 202 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 2: interrogators do. They introduce the idea to Matt that he's 203 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: going to get the death penalty unless he confesses to 204 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,520 Speaker 2: this crime. 205 00:11:57,679 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: If he doesn't, then they promise him they're going to 206 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: go the hard. 207 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: Route, and they get graphic, they get specific. When I 208 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,160 Speaker 2: first saw this tape, my jaw dropped. Matt Lyvers is 209 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: told by one of the Cass County investigators that he's 210 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 2: gonna personally make sure that Matt is executed for this 211 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 2: crime if he doesn't confess. 212 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 1: If I and you don't meant to me exactly what 213 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 1: you've done, I'm gonna do my love best to hang 214 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: your ass from the highest tree. 215 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 2: I'm going to do my level best to hang your 216 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: ass from the highest tree. Done, you are done. I 217 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 2: will go after the death penalty. 218 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: They're re citing all the different ways the death penalty 219 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: can be administered, electric chair, gas, lethal injection. They tell 220 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: him his asses on the line, and you're in the 221 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: frying pan right now. 222 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 3: I'll push and. 223 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: I push until I get everything. I mean to make. 224 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 2: Sure you move on hard for this, make no mistake 225 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: about it. Matt is beginning to break down, and make 226 00:12:56,440 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: no mistake about this as well. These investigators know that 227 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 2: Matt has intellectual disabilities exactly. 228 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: He's giving them these really clear signals during the interrogation 229 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 1: that he's limited. At one point, one of the police 230 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: says to him, you know many people have tried and 231 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: failed to outsmart us. Matt turns to him and assures 232 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,280 Speaker 1: him that he's not trying to do that. I'm dumb 233 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: as a brick, he says. And when one of the 234 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 1: interrogators urges Matt to confess, to stand up and to 235 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: be a man, Matt takes them literally. 236 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: He is a concrete thinker, and he interprets that to 237 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 2: actually mean that he's going to stand up and get 238 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 2: up out of his chair. 239 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 1: These are terribly frightening, terribly coercive interrogation tactics, and it's 240 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: not the way someone with these kinds of disabilities should 241 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: be questioned. 242 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 2: I am so tired of law enforcement officers pretending that 243 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: they didn't know the person they were interrogating had some disabilities. 244 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 2: This willful ignorance on their part has got to stop. 245 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,439 Speaker 2: Their worst strong signs that they were dealing with somebody 246 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 2: who was disabled and they just treated him like he 247 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: was any other normal adult, and they plowed ahead and 248 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: used the same tactics and got false confessions away. 249 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: This is a high profile case, will not go away. 250 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: This pressure builds actually goes on for about six and 251 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: a half hours until we start to see signs that 252 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: Matt is finally beginning to crack under the pressure. He 253 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: looks up at his interrogators and he says, all I 254 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: want to do is go home. 255 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: Now. 256 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: The interrogators take that as their cue, and they start 257 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: telling Matt that he must have been tired of being 258 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: put down, shut out, kept out of the family inheritance 259 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: by his aunt and uncle, And slowly Matt begins to 260 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: respond affirmatively agree with a series of leading questions from 261 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: officers who literally start walking him through the story. 262 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 2: The truth is, you got a gun, right or wrong, 263 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 2: and you took that gun back to your uncle Wayne 264 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: and Ann Sharman's house, right right. Eventually they come around 265 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: to the murder itself, and you fired a shot at 266 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 2: your uncle Wayne, Wayne. Matt gives a series of one 267 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: word wrote answers, agreeing to the suggestions of these interrogators 268 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 2: about how this crime took place. The only answers to 269 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: these questions. They've scripted it, and Matt is just agreeing 270 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 2: to it. 271 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: You know, you listen to this, and you get the 272 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: impression that if the next question was and this crime 273 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: happened on the moon, right, Matt, he would say right too. 274 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: He was that much under their control, and. 275 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 2: He walked upstairs in our house after hours. Originally he 276 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 2: takes sole responsibility for the murders, but remember these investigators 277 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: have good reason to think that at least two people 278 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: were involved in the crime. 279 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,560 Speaker 1: Right because of the silhouette and the blood sprayed wall. 280 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 2: So after another lengthy series of questioning, Matt finally impled 281 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: Kate's his cousin Nick Sampson too, saying that it was 282 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 2: Nick that gave him the murder weapon and the keys 283 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: to the Ford Contour. 284 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: Based on this statement, both Matt Livers and Nick Samson 285 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: are arrested and charged with murder. Now, the very next day, 286 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: Matt is facing yet another polygraph exam. Right, questioning is 287 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: continuing for him even after he's arrested and charged. But 288 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 1: the very next day he recants on videotape the whole thing. 289 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: He says, you know, I've just been making things up 290 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: to satisfy you guys and basically fitting in answers to 291 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: what you guys have been asking. He later explained to 292 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: a court appointed psychologist that he confessed because he wanted 293 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:44,840 Speaker 1: to go home. 294 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 2: Case closed. This is front page news in both Lincoln 295 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: and in Omaha. We got our men exactly. 296 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: They're facing charges both in the courtroom and the court 297 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: of public opinion. But the case against them is problematic 298 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: because there's no physical evidence implicating them. Police try to 299 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: match those twelve gage casings that they found at the 300 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: crime scene to a shotgun that they found in Nick 301 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: Samson's bedroom, but there is no match. What about the 302 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: marijuana pipe that they found in the Stokes driveway, Well, 303 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: there was DNA on it and it excluded both Matt 304 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: and Nick. And the same thing goes for that strange 305 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: golden ring that was found in the Stokes kitchen. It 306 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: did contain DNA from two unknown people, but that DNA 307 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: did not belong to Nick or Matt. The police were 308 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: in desperate need of some corroboration for Matt Liver's confession. 309 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: So what do they do? They call in David Kofode. Now, 310 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: David Cofode was the commander of the Douglas County Sheriff 311 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: CSI unit. He's widely viewed as a statewide law enforcement hero. 312 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 2: He was also a shameless self promoter. He was not 313 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 2: only a legend in law enforcement circles, but he was 314 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 2: also a legend in his own mind right. 315 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: David was the guy who had the magic touch. He 316 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: had a reputation for closing cases by finding forensic evidence 317 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: that all the other officers had overlooked, and David Cofote 318 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: was brought in and asked to take a second look 319 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:23,480 Speaker 1: at Will Samson's ford contour. Now, Cofote examines the contour personally, 320 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 1: and true to his reputation, he claims to have found 321 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: blood under the dash. He swabs the blood and it 322 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: tests positive. The blood belongs to Wayne Stoke. The case 323 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,439 Speaker 1: against Matt Levers and Nick Sampson just became devastating, or 324 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: so it seemed. Meanwhile, other officers were continuing their investigation 325 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: and they focused on that strange golden ring from the 326 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: Stoke's kitchen. Now, there were two marks on that ring. 327 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 1: The first one was the inscription that we already talked 328 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: about Love Always, Corey and Ryan. But there was also 329 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,239 Speaker 1: a jeweler's mark on the inside of that ring, a 330 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: mark made by the manufacturer, and police were able to 331 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: trace that mark to a jeweler in New York. 332 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,239 Speaker 2: This jewelry business is going out of business, and the 333 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: Nebraska investigator calls up and gets a woman on the 334 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 2: phone who is closing down the office, and she says, 335 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 2: can you help me track this ring? Where did this 336 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 2: ring go after it was manufactured? And do you have 337 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: any idea about this inscription. 338 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: And on the day before this jeweler is literally closing 339 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: its doors in New York. Its employees tell investigators that 340 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: that ring was shipped off to a Walmart in beaver Dam, Wisconsin, 341 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: where it was purchased by a woman named Corey for 342 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: her boyfriend Ryan. 343 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 2: Had this phone call come a day later, they may 344 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: never have been able to trace that. 345 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: Ring, and we might never know who actually killed Wayne 346 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: and Sharman Stoke. 347 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 2: It was a miracle. It was a break, and it 348 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: was a break that was generated by really good police work. 349 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: Unbelievable tracis ring them from Nebraska to New York to Wisconsin, 350 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: where they'd discover the story about Gregory Fester and Jessica 351 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: Reed stealing the truck in which the ring had been left. 352 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 2: Now, who are these two? 353 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: Jessica Reid grew up in Wisconsin in a small town 354 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: called Horicon. Jessica was an honors student when she fell 355 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: in love with greg who was an older, really troubled teenager. 356 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: And the more detectives dug into Greg and Jessica, the 357 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: more there was to learn. It turns out they'd stolen 358 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: a twelve gage shotgun and the pickup truck where Corey 359 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: and Ryan had left that Golden ring. Greg and Jessica 360 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: had gone on a drug fueled interstate crime spree, breaking 361 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,479 Speaker 1: into houses in rural Iowa and Nebraska. They eventually ran 362 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: out of money and abandoned the truck in Louisiana on 363 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: April eighteenth. Somehow they made it back to Wisconsin, where 364 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: they were arrested a week later for car theft. Police 365 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 1: questioned Greg and Jessica and began connecting the dots. According 366 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: to Jessica, she and Greg started their bender in Wisconsin 367 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: and we're passing through Nebraska when the truck began running 368 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: out of gas. They were tired, cranky, coming down from 369 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: a cough seer up high and looking for a house 370 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: to rob. That's when Greg and Jessica came across the 371 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: Stoke home in Murdoch. Greg goes in through a downstairs window, 372 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: Jessica said, and he lets her in at the front door. 373 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: They go upstairs and are confronted by Wayne and Sharman Stoke. 374 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,000 Speaker 1: Greg lifts up his shotgun and he fires one at Wayne, 375 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: hitting him in the knee. He and Jessica back out 376 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 1: of the room. They get into the hallway and Jessica 377 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: looks at Greg and says, do something. 378 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 2: So one of them goes back into the room, we 379 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 2: don't know which one and finish his wayne off with 380 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 2: a shotgun blast at close range to the back of 381 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 2: his head. Meanwhile, Sharman is calling the police, and one 382 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 2: of these two natural born killers opens fire and charm 383 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,160 Speaker 2: and shoots her in the face and her body falls 384 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 2: down next to the bed and it's wedged between the 385 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 2: bed and the wall. 386 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: Greg and Jessica don't steal a thing. They just get 387 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: out of that farmhouse, get back into their vehicle, and 388 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: drive off into the night. Now, Jessica's story smacked of truth, 389 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: and it was soon corroborated. Wisconsin detectives in Jessica and 390 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: Greg's DNA to Nebraska and lo and behold, their DNA 391 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: was consistent with the DNA on the marijuana pipe and 392 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: on the Golden Ring. Investigators also found wayIn Stokes blood 393 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: in the truck and on clothes and shoes that had 394 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: belonged to both Greg and Jessica. They even found a 395 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: chilling entry and Jessica Read's diary I killed someone, She wrote, 396 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: I loved it. I wish I could do it all the time, 397 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,680 Speaker 1: and they find a cigarette box in Jessica's home containing 398 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: a letter to Greg and a spent twelve gage shell 399 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: casing from the murders. In the letter, she wrote, this 400 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: is something I did for you, for you to love 401 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,359 Speaker 1: me as much as I love you. This is a 402 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: crazy story. It's something straight out of Natural Born Killers. 403 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 2: This was a thrill kill by two drug crazed teens 404 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,120 Speaker 2: who actually thought they were in Iowa, not Nebraska. 405 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: Needless to say, the discovery of Jessica and Greg up 406 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 1: ends the case against Matt Livers and Nick Samson. After 407 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: Jessica and Greg are arrested and implicated in the Stoke murders, 408 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: Nebraska investigators travel out to Wisconsin to question them. 409 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 2: And they do so because Jessica and Greg are telling 410 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 2: a story that doesn't involve Matt Livers and Nick Sampson, 411 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,359 Speaker 2: so they play the same card they played with Livers. 412 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,919 Speaker 2: Wisconsin is not a death penalty state, they say, but 413 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: Nebraska is. And if you don't come clean to having 414 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: committed this crime with Matt and Nick, we're going to 415 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: seek the death penalty against you as well. And for 416 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 2: a brief moment, Jessica comes up with a wild story 417 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: about how she had met Nick Sampson at a bar 418 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: and had gone with them into the stokehouse. But she 419 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: immediately recants once those Nebraska investigators leave the room. As 420 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: soon as she's alone with this Wisconsin investigator, she says 421 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 2: to him, these guys keep wanting me to pin this 422 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 2: murder on two people I have never met. During one 423 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 2: of my many searches of cases with the words false confession, 424 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: I came upon this case and I knew the psychologist 425 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 2: who had been hired by Matt Livers's attorney, Julie Bear. 426 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: So I reached out to Julie and played a sort 427 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 2: of behind the scenes consulting role. She didn't need me. 428 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: This case was beginning to crash on its own. 429 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: That psychologist Steve knew. His name is Scott Presler. Scott's 430 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: report for the defense team gave a fuller picture of 431 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: the motivations behind Matt's confession. 432 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 3: I have results that clearly showed that Matt was very 433 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: vulnerable and low functioning and had personality characteristics in which 434 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 3: he wants to please other people, wants to be complying 435 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 3: with other people, and has a very low tolerance for stress. 436 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 3: And when he didn't do well on particular kinds of tests. 437 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 3: It's because he didn't understand it, so he would make 438 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 3: up stuff, which is interesting because he confabulated the whole 439 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: scenario that the police took cook Line and Sinker, which 440 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 3: they thought indicated that he was guilty. 441 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: Scott also presented his analysis of Matt's personality to an 442 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,160 Speaker 1: expert from the prosecution side, and that expert was shocked 443 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: by what he saw. 444 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 3: And he said, Oh my god, I think that this 445 00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 3: is a real false confession. 446 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: It becomes clear Jessica and Greg committed this crime on 447 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: their own. 448 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: So I'm at this meeting with the prosecuting attorney and 449 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 3: he's visibly emotionally shaken by everything that's happened. Right after 450 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 3: that meeting ended, he announced his decision to release matth 451 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 3: So I was right there when Matt walked out of 452 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 3: jail when all the press were there, and saw match 453 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 3: reaction to seeing his family, and of course he gave 454 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 3: me a big hug and thanked me. It was a 455 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 3: very emotional scene. 456 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: You know, this case shows the difference between bad police 457 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: work and good police work. On the one hand, we 458 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: have cops trying to solve this case by breaking an 459 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: obviously vulnerable man through an insanely coercive interrogation. Compare that 460 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: to the gumshoe investigator who focused on the physical evidence. 461 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: That investigator traced the golden ring to the New York Jewelers, 462 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: which led to the Wisconsin Walmart, which led to Corey 463 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: and Ryan and their pickup truck getting stolen, the ring 464 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: and the glove compartment, and that twisted path finally ends 465 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: with Greg and Jessica. That's great police work. And we 466 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: know it's great because in fact, Greg and Jessica's DNA 467 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: and forensic evidence was found all over the scene. We 468 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: know they're guilty because the science tells us that they are. 469 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 2: Without that dogged investigative work, these two young men very 470 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 2: well might have been on death row. 471 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: Both Jessica and Greg went on to be prosecuted for 472 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,840 Speaker 1: the murders of Wayne and Sharman Stoke. They were convicted 473 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: and sentenced to life in prison. But hang on a second, 474 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,879 Speaker 1: because there's one other question here, right, What about that 475 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 1: blood stain in the forward contour? 476 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: How did that bloodstain get there if the car had 477 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 2: nothing to do with this crime. 478 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,600 Speaker 1: Well, it turns out the blood had been planted by 479 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: none other than the state's star crime scene investigator himself, 480 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 1: David cofot. Turns out, the guy with the magic touch was, 481 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: in this case, little more than a Nebraska prosecutors ended 482 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: up charging Cofode with planting that blood in the contour. 483 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: He was convicted and sentenced to spend between twenty months 484 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: and four years behind bars. Prosecutors called it poetic justice. 485 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about David cofod because he's 486 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: one of the interesting figures in this case. Why would 487 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: someone do something like this. He literally framed two innocent 488 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: men by claiming that he'd found Wayne Stoke's blood in 489 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: the contour. This is what happens when someone believes that 490 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: the end that they're pursuing is just, and that therefore 491 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: they can cut corners and do unethical things in service 492 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: of the just goal. 493 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 2: I don't buy that he did this because he never 494 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 2: imagined that that confession would be false. So I figured, 495 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: I'll just strengthen the case and I'll get away with it, 496 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 2: and I'll be a hero and nobody will think twice 497 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,479 Speaker 2: about it. Got caught, Thank god for that. I helped 498 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 2: Matt Livers get an attorney to bring a civil suit 499 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: against the Cass County officers and the others involved in 500 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 2: his arrest. When that case settled, something was said by 501 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 2: Nebraska Attorney General John Bruning that bothers me to this day. 502 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 2: He said, the only reason we're settling this civil suit 503 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: is because of David kofodes criminal activity. My investigators did 504 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 2: nothing wrong here. They acted honorably. Nothing could be further 505 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 2: from the truth. They threatened Matt Livers with the death 506 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 2: penalty to get him to confess. They threatened Jessica Reed 507 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: with the death penalty to get her to implicate Livers 508 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: and Samson. There's nothing honorable here about what these detectives did. 509 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 2: Jessica Reed was more honorable than they were. She told 510 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 2: the truth, believe it or not. In the Animal False Confessions. 511 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 2: There are other cases of people who have been wrongfully convicted, 512 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 2: only later to be exonerated when it turns out the 513 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 2: people on a multi state crimes where you're responsible. 514 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the interesting thing about so many cases 515 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: that we're talking about on this podcast, because you have 516 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: innocent people going down for these horrific crimes based on 517 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: false confessions, while people who really need to be stopped right, 518 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: whether they're serial rapists. 519 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: For serial killers right are. 520 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 1: Out there doing terrible things while the innocent person does 521 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: their time. 522 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: Justice was eventually done here, but for Matt and for Nick, 523 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 2: scars remain. Matt moved to Texas, but the legacy of 524 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 2: these murders still haunts him. His relationship with Nick and 525 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 2: other family members has been forever frayed. 526 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: Nick Samson drifted apart from his cousin. He could never 527 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: accept that Matt had falsely implicated him during that interrogation. 528 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: Both of them sued the state of Nebraska and ended 529 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: up recovering some compensation for their ordeal, although of course 530 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: nothing can properly repay them for the harm that they underwent. Matt, Nick, 531 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: you both endured ordeals that would test anyone. Your stories 532 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: stand both as a warning for those police officers who 533 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 1: want to breach trust and cut corners, but also as 534 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: a testament to the justice that can be brought by 535 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: good police work, the work done by those who trace 536 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: that golden ring. To Greg and Jessica, we wish you 537 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: peace and happy futures. Thanks for listening as we've told 538 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: this story of Matt Livers and Nick Samson. Next week, 539 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: we're going to tackle the story of tana Pora, a 540 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: story that hails all the way from New Zealand, because 541 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: false confessions aren't just a problem here in the US, 542 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: It's a global problem. Until then, thanks for listening to 543 00:31:54,360 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions. Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is a 544 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts in association with Signal 545 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: Company Number One. Special thanks to our executive producer Jason 546 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: Flamm and the team at Signal Company Number one. Executive 547 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: producer Kevin wardis Senior producer and Pope, and additional production 548 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: and editing by Connor Hall. Our music was composed by 549 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 1: Jay Ralph. You can follow me on Instagram or Twitter 550 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: at Laura Nightrider and you. 551 00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: Can follow me on Twitter at s Drizzen. 552 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 1: For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com 553 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: and be sure to follow the show on Instagram at 554 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on 555 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: Twitter at wrong Conviction