WEBVTT - On Risk and Liberation With Raquel Willis 0:00:01.360 --> 0:00:04.200 On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:27.200 Friends Media. Some stories are just good time stories. Sometimes 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:29.080 we just want to key key and live in somebody 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:30.880 else's fictional world for a little bit. 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.080 And sometimes we want to be educated in those moments 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:36.440 more feeling like we want to expand our knowledge base, 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.159 our consciousness. You might want a historical breakdown or even 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:41.840 a factual analysis. 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.040 But sometimes we just want to learn about someone's life 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.559 in their own words, and in memoirs we really get 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:50.240 to step into someone else's shoes. We get to trace 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:53.479 someone's path over a specific period in their lives. We 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:56.120 get to see their ups and downs and their evolution 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.560 in a way that feels vulnerable and insightful. 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.640 Memoirs can be stories where our protagonist comes of age, 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.560 where they hit rock bottom, or where they go on 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:06.360 the adventure of a lifetime. 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:07.160 Yeah. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.040 The cool thing about memoirs is that they don't have 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.440 to be about famous people. They're often about everyday people 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.200 who have life stories that people can connect with and 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.720 learn from. That means that a lot of the time 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:21.160 we get to read stories from people whose names we 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:26.440 may never know otherwise, or people whose voices are systematically silenced. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.959 And today we'll be speaking with award winning author, activists 0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.200 and media strategist Roquel Willis, who has a new memoir 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.399 called The Risk It Takes to Bloom. 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.400 I'm Katie and I'm Eves. 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:42.560 Today's episode on Risk and Liberation with Roquel Willis. In 0:01:42.600 --> 0:01:45.840 her memoir, Raquel talks about her upbringing in Georgia, the 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:48.880 challenges she had to face as a transgender woman, finding 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:51.600 her community and voice in the South, and her work 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.680 as a journalist and organizer dedicated to uplifting trans stories. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:58.400 And you know, Roquel telling her story this way is 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:02.960 pretty impactful media landscape that portrays trans people as villains. 0:02:03.600 --> 0:02:06.600 People do some serious reaching to figure out ways to 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:11.200 debate trans people's identity and spew hatred and intolerance, all 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.440 under the guise of moral superiority and like feigned concern 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.200 for children. I don't want a platform too much of 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.560 that narrative, but it's rampant. So you've probably seen some 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:25.960 of the anti trans propaganda. People's sloppily constructed opinions on 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:30.840 transfolks can lead to real damaging consequences like bathroom and 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:34.680 locker room bills and children dying by suicide. The point 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.639 is folks in all kinds of media are great at 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:42.520 crafting stories that use misinformation and disinformation to sway your 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.640 opinion about trans people. And when you're the target of 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.399 this kind of damaging propaganda, it can be super important 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.160 to create spaces where you can take control of your 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:55.440 own narratives, and in the risk it takes to bloom, 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:58.960 Raquel does just that. She shows us how she developed, 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.760 as she puts it, a thirst for embracing authentic storytelling 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.800 as a critical aspect of collective liberation. So as we 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:09.840 approach the end of another Women's History Month, we speak 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.320 with Raquel about the beauty of black trans people telling 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:18.239 their stories with agency and how honest personal storytelling helped 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:24.200 pave a path toward freedom. Hi Raquel, Hi, I'm so 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:25.760 glad to have you on the show today. 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:27.240 Welcome, Welcome. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:32.920 Yes, I loved reading your book, and one thing that 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.400 I was thinking the whole time is like, this is 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:40.000 so vulnerable, and I want to know what that process 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:41.800 was like for you. What were the emotions that you 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:44.560 were going through while you were writing the book and 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:49.360 telling your story in this very revealing way In terms. 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:55.800 Of emotionality, I had to work through feelings of shame 0:03:56.240 --> 0:04:01.640 around my story as a black trans woman who started 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:06.320 her career, you know, over a decade ago, and also 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.920 my transition even years before that. For a long time, 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.360 I felt like I had to run as far away 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:21.159 from my childhood and origin story as possible because I 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:26.719 feared my childhood, my boyhood, you know, all of those 0:04:26.760 --> 0:04:30.479 things being weaponized against me to kind of chip away 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.279 at who I am now, to chip away at my womanhood. 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.080 And so I think that that was a big part 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:40.679 of some of the emotions there was figuring out how 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:47.279 to really embrace and love my younger self, but also 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:52.599 to give grace to family and other folks in my 0:04:52.760 --> 0:04:58.080 life and community and environment who didn't have the tools 0:04:58.160 --> 0:04:59.960 to understand who I was. 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:00.320 Well. 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.080 So it seems like the things that maybe you're running 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:05.840 from the most, or the things that you really had 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.359 to confront as you were writing the book. 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:13.120 Absolutely yeah. I mean it's laying it all on front street, 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:18.240 as Foth say. So you have to be ready in 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.080 a sense, and I don't know that there's a one 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.880 hundred percent way to know that you're ready to share 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:29.839 your story on that level, but I think being able 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:35.120 to share your story and have those hard conversations in 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.360 your most intimate relationships first is key, and I think 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.520 some of that has been lost in a time where 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:47.719 everyone is a brand, you know, social media demands us 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:54.200 to relinquish some of our most intimate and vulnerable moments 0:05:55.000 --> 0:06:00.680 and sometimes to hype up and you know, perform, you know, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.240 more vulnerability than maybe we are ready for. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:06.839 One of the things I noticed in your book that 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:09.919 I would say was surprising speaking of you saying learning 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:14.720 to Love your younger self and Embrace the boyhood, was 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.120 that you shared a picture of your younger self and 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.239 you also named your younger self. 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:20.680 So what was that thought process? 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.000 And because it often is weaponized, what made you feel 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:25.520 like I am going to put this out on for 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:26.359 a street and what? 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:32.880 Yeah? I mean, those were some big decisions, and I 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.640 wanted to make sure that the pieces of my childhood 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:41.960 and my life before really having the language to understand 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:45.240 my transness, were presented in the way that I wanted 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:50.400 them presented. I think in previous moments of literature and 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:56.120 storytelling for trans folks, there was a necessity to kind 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:02.159 of paint as stark of difference between who we are, 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:07.719 maybe pre transitioned, so to speak, and beyond kind of 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.840 naming our transness, because I don't really think transitioning ever 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:17.080 in but I think being able to show my younger 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:23.000 self was important to love that younger self because I 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.960 am every version of me that has existed, right, So 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.520 I am the little kid called a boy right and 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:36.320 being raised as a boy, right like I have that 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:42.960 kid in me. And I also understand that these categories 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.400 of boy and girl and man and woman, you know, 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:53.200 it's not that rigid, and I have come to a 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.560 point in my life where it doesn't hurt me so 0:07:56.720 --> 0:08:00.640 much to name that history in that way. But I 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:03.520 also didn't just want to share my younger self. I 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:09.200 wanted to share this context that I was birth and race, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.480 and which is my family. So it's not just a 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:14.880 picture of me, it's a picture of Actually every picture 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:19.320 is a picture of me with family or community, mostly 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.080 my mom, because she's been kind of a central figure 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.440 in my life, so she is featured in three of 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:27.240 the images. 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:30.240 Does she love that, you know? 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:38.080 I think she did. She hasn't spoken to that dynamic specifically, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.400 but it has been important for me at various points 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:45.880 in my career to name that I have a loving 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:51.320 and affirming mother and a family that has evolved alongside me. 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.680 So I would imagine there are many trans people who 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:56.880 may not be ready to tell their stories, maybe thinking 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.880 about telling their stories in various ways, and they might 0:08:59.920 --> 0:09:01.920 not have gotten to this point where you are, like 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:04.600 you say, where those things don't hurt you to name anymore, 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:06.760 or that shame that you said you were able to 0:09:06.760 --> 0:09:09.959 work through through this process, which I guess this process 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.520 of writing the book could have been therapeutic in ways 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:14.000 to help you. 0:09:13.960 --> 0:09:14.520 Work through it. 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:17.520 But what kind of advice would you give to other 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:21.800 trans people who want to share their stories, who don't 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.280 necessarily have the capacity or tools to move through shame 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.880 to name things that may be difficult for them to name. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:35.200 Well, I think it's important to figure out what your 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:42.640 outlet is for release of all of the inevitable pin 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:49.280 up energy and ankst and grieving and fears. For some 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:53.199 people that's sports and being active in that way. It's 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.040 for some people it's the arts and all the ways 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:00.760 that that exists. But I think that having the outlets 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:06.640 are so key to let that energy out in some way, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.160 even if it's not energy that you can really name 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.880 specifically what it is, and that feels important for me 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:16.280 as a trans person to state because I think that 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:21.560 the naming of the experience is just one thing, but 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.920 I think the how you express it is another thing, right, 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.760 and that that helps us get to the deeper layers 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.680 of what are the parts of your story that give 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:34.480 you strength? What are the parts of your story that 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:40.120 you feel most traumatized by or hurt by? And where 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:43.960 we let that energy out matters? And for me, you know, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.520 that has been writing. It has been being able to 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:54.040 express myself in the written word and speeches and all 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:59.400 of those different things. Also, my advice for folks trying 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:04.640 to work through through guilt and shame has been to 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:12.319 find other stories and kind of sustain yourself one those 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.640 until you can get to a point where you can 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.080 share your story in the way that you need to. 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.360 I mean, whenever I feel like times are difficult, and 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:26.880 that's pretty often these days. I think about our ancestors 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:31.720 and trancestors and like what they endured and built with 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:36.160 even less tools and access and language to understand who 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.000 they were. Right, if they could do it, why can't 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.280 I figure out my path? 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:44.560 Yeah? That makes a lot of sense. 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:47.440 Are there any memoirs that you look to in writing 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:48.040 your book. 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:54.839 Oh, absolutely, I mean the perfect kind of quintessential memoirs. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.040 Of course, you know Janet Mok's redefining realness, surpassing certainty. 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:05.319 Her two memoirs are foundational. And also I had this book, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.160 but I had to really fall in love with it 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.880 all over again. Hiding My Candy by the Lady Shabbie, 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.240 who was a black trans performer they would say female 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.000 impersonator back in the nineties, but that was when she 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.800 wrote her autobiography because she was a character in this 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.000 best selling book called Midnight in the Garden of Good 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.199 and Evil. And then she also was able to reprise 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:37.400 her role in the film. So we have this kind 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:42.360 of hidden black trans history and Southern Black trans history 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.640 that I think we haven't talked about enough. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:49.840 What do you see the connection between personal narrative and 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:52.720 social change in the context of your memoir. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:13:00.240 Well, I think that it was important to recognize both 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.160 the revolution that happened within me and the one that 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:08.080 happened beyond me and continues to happen, right, And I 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:13.440 think revolution is an ongoing phenomenon which I speak to 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.680 in the epilogue of the book. But I think when 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.920 you believe in collective liberation, there is an inherent need 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:26.600 to also believe in the power of transformation. And that 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.720 isn't just something that happens collectively like that has to 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:33.960 happen on an individual level too. And I think we 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:40.280 discount how important the moments of shift and change and 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:45.360 taking risk to bloom matter in our lives. Right that 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:50.520 death that you experience in your family or with a 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:55.200 loved ones and friends or in community, that is fertilizer 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.320 for you to grow and change, Right, not just kind 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:02.360 of wallow and will to away. The loss of a 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:07.040 dream or the shattering of an expectation. You know, those 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:13.120 are opportunities for us to think new ways of living 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.600 and existing. And that's the connection for me. 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:32.880 More with Raquel willis after the break you mentioned the 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:37.840 power of personal transformation and being able to tell your story. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:40.760 What are your thoughts on memoir being a space for 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.680 trans people to be able to tell their stories. Do 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.440 you think that it is a safe and authentic medium 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:49.720 for trans people to be able to tell their stories. 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:58.760 What I appreciate about memoir and book link works and 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:05.680 long form is that it just gives the creator vast 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:11.600 space to dig into the nuances, and I think in 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:15.280 a world where most people, I think it's safe to 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.640 say most people don't understand the complexity of gender or 0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:24.680 sex or identity in all of these different ways, we 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:30.480 need that space to tease out these different things. Trans 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.160 folks are not thought of in these kind of deeper 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:38.720 complex ways, and that's what I wanted to add to 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:39.440 the cannon. 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.880 I'm also thinking about how at this point you've gone 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:45.120 to different places for your book tour and had different 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.120 conversations in those spaces, So that kind of means you've 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:52.320 had to continue talking about your story over and over. 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:54.880 Have you learned anything new about yourself? Have you had 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:58.920 any revelations in this continuation or guess dialogue that you're 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:00.960 having with your own store in this process. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:07.000 There's this quote that's like, and I don't know who 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:11.200 to attribute to, but it's like, once you create the thing, 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:17.640 oftentimes it's no longer yours, and there's a piece of that, 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.240 you know, Like, my experience with this book has been 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:27.160 so different at different points. Obviously, you know, I think 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:32.600 the drafting of it was its own particular experience and 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.640 had its own struggles and triumphs of do I want 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.840 to include that can I say that? And then of 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:44.360 course the editing process is like, well, can I say 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.200 that better? Or do I need to take that out? 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:52.240 Is that a disservice to my goals or doesn't make 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.920 you know, my arguments for my existence stronger? You know? 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.480 But that's a different struggle than the drafting process. And 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:06.879 then of course in the publishing it's like, well, what 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.040 are the ways that I'm willing to allow my story 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:14.600 to be packaged in the ways that I'm not Now 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.080 that I have created this thing and that is its 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:23.640 own thing too. And then the other piece is now 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.800 that this is out in the world and I'm having 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:30.000 conversations with folks and they're making their connections around the 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.879 parts that really resonate with them, it becomes its own 0:17:34.040 --> 0:17:37.119 thing when other people read it than it is for me, 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.080 because I'm the only person in the world who has 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:47.560 had the experience of processing, analyzing, and creating this. So 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.480 no one is going to, even in reading my book, 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.639 know my full story or my whole truth. I mean, 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.439 there are folks who have read the difficult moments I 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:04.000 had with family and own see the difficult part because they, 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.560 in their life have only experienced the difficult part, and 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.760 so maybe the argument of evolution of family isn't as 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.000 resonant for them because they haven't been able to experience 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.960 that right, Or maybe they don't believe that that's possible, 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.480 and maybe it's not possible for them and their family right. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:22.600 And then of course there are other folks who are like, 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.119 latch on to the evolution of my family and the 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.520 possibility and see that maybe it's possible for them, or 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:34.040 maybe they are experiencing that joy. It bores and it 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.240 shifts depending on who is having the conversation. 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.960 That's one of the things about memoirs is it's a 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.040 book about you in a certain part of your life. 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.480 But as you said, you're in community with people, so 0:18:48.560 --> 0:18:51.000 other people are going to show up, and you know, 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.400 sometimes people don't like how they show up in your memoir. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.600 They're like, I do that you remember that wrong. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.280 But one thing I liked about your memoir is that 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:03.720 you also included letters to other people, your dad being one, 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.080 but other trans people like China Gibson. Why was that 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.920 important for you to center them in that way? 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.480 I would say the first chapter that I had a 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.680 full draft of was the chapter about my dad and 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.400 someone told me. Actually, Janet Mock when she read an 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.080 early version, said, you know, this is the emotional core 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.520 of the book. You know, like this is you essentially 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.840 me at you know, my most vulnerable. How are you 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:39.520 going to glean your power sitting in that? In these 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.480 other spaces in the book. And so that was that 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:47.400 was some very beautiful, necessary feedback because it was a risk, right, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:52.359 it was a risk to name, especially as someone often 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.160 put on a pedestal and probably put on a pedestal 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.560 more now. Right, it's just like it keeps growing, you know, 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:03.520 as a public figure, as an activist, I'm often a 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:08.960 person who becomes a vessel for other people to understand 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:16.240 themselves or the world or politics or liberation even which 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:20.280 is like is wild to me, and you know it's 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:26.359 impossible to be that really, But I wanted to be 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.800 able to show these moments, and particularly with my dad, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:36.960 where I felt the most shame and the most guilt 0:20:37.600 --> 0:20:44.399 around not living up to his expectations, societies expectations, the 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:49.480 Catholic churches expectations, you know, all of these different things. 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:55.199 That was important and to talk about what it means 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:59.760 and what it meant to embrace being a failure to 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.040 those expectations, right, and a failure to these ideas that 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.479 I would be a person who would see myself in 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:15.439 black masculinity, and that if I didn't and couldn't, that 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:20.440 I shouldn't exist, right. That was important, And I think 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.800 with the epistolary approach with the letters, it was necessary 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:30.320 to be able to continue the narrative of the story progressing, 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:36.000 but also be able to speak more directly to who 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:38.679 I was at the time of writing. And so I 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:45.560 become a slightly different narrator, pulling on more dimensions of 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.040 what I've learned along the way and bring the reader 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:53.040 through that moment. And that was kind of the approach, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.240 and that was what I felt like, change the tone 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.399 a little bit. And I think for some people the 0:21:58.480 --> 0:22:01.880 letters are the most important, or not important, but their 0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.240 most resonant parts of the book for them. 0:22:06.320 --> 0:22:09.200 Yeah, letters are like really intimate. I think about, you know, 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.240 James Baldwin writing to his nephew, or Ton of Hose 0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:15.280 Coast writing to his son, and it's like we get 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.879 to get a peek into you writing to these different 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:25.800 trans women you know who didn't make it and coming 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.760 like I guess from like a big sister energy to 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:33.840 little Sister, even though their ancestors now So yeah, it 0:22:33.920 --> 0:22:34.680 is really resonant. 0:22:35.119 --> 0:22:37.399 You say in the introduction to your book that you 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.879 have formative organizing experiences that fuel your thirst for embracing 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:47.040 authentic storytelling as a critical aspect of collective liberation. I 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:49.639 like you to talk more about that and why and 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.280 how it's a critical aspect of collective liberation. 0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.199 What is the link between those two things. 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:59.240 So I studied journalism at the University of Georgia. Go Dogs. 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:01.840 I think I'm obligated to say that where I get 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:05.240 fined or maybe they throw another student loan at me, 0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.320 I don't know. But when I was in journalism school, 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:09.879 and I think that this is true for a lot 0:23:09.960 --> 0:23:13.399 of folks in the margins, the idea of objectivity was 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.040 kind of a way to keep us from bringing our 0:23:18.200 --> 0:23:23.720 lived experience into conversation with our expertise. So this idea 0:23:23.800 --> 0:23:27.680 that to be unbiased is to be a blank slate, 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:32.440 to strip yourself of these things that make you unique, 0:23:33.359 --> 0:23:39.080 your blackness, your transness, your queerness, your womanhood, even and 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:42.520 on and on. But as I started to get into 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:47.960 the field and have opportunities, at least at my first job. 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.120 I wasn't out as queer and trance because I didn't 0:23:50.119 --> 0:23:55.639 feel safe enough, and I felt the impact of being 0:23:55.760 --> 0:24:00.919 closeted on my work. I wasn't a to be the 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:04.080 best storyteller that I could be because I had to 0:24:04.640 --> 0:24:09.080 hide my queerness and transness, or at least felt I 0:24:09.160 --> 0:24:14.399 had to to survive, and that was a problem. So 0:24:14.520 --> 0:24:18.000 then it must be true that to be open about 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:22.040 those things would make me a deeper, richer storyteller. And 0:24:22.119 --> 0:24:26.480 so then when we think about the James Baldwins and 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:32.560 the Angela Davises and the Ida b Wells Barnett's, you 0:24:32.600 --> 0:24:36.320 know who brought their full self to their work in 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:40.040 varying ways. Those are the people I aspire to be, 0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:47.520 not the folks that inevitably have told me that my blackness, 0:24:47.560 --> 0:24:50.639 transnis queerness in womanhood didn't matter. 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:55.000 More conversation with Raquel after the Break. 0:25:03.000 --> 0:25:05.640 So by now. 0:25:05.680 --> 0:25:10.440 You've worked in a bunch of different mediums, so magazines, 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:16.600 you've done it in speeches in public capacities, and podcasts, 0:25:16.600 --> 0:25:22.000 and I know new podcasts just launched, and just writing 0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.200 your own book writing essays. I was wondering if you've 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:29.760 seen any sort of differences in how you're able to 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:35.520 move towards this aim of liberation and whatever other goals 0:25:35.520 --> 0:25:35.840 you have. 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.240 In your storytelling through these different mediums. 0:25:39.440 --> 0:25:43.639 How does the goalpost or how does how you achieve 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.480 those objectives? How does that change as the medium changes? 0:25:48.480 --> 0:25:55.720 Well, I think that with media changes, the technique, the skills, 0:25:56.160 --> 0:25:59.080 you know, those kind of things shift, But I don't 0:25:59.080 --> 0:26:04.399 think purpose shifts all that much. So if I'm invested 0:26:04.480 --> 0:26:08.720 in elevating the honor and dignity of black trans power 0:26:08.960 --> 0:26:18.119 and liberation, which I am, then it carries me through 0:26:19.359 --> 0:26:24.080 whatever era I'm in, whatever role that I'm in, and 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:28.240 on and on. So in writing, the stories that I 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:36.119 want to share inevitably are connected to observing black transpower 0:26:37.800 --> 0:26:42.040 and dreaming of what black transpower can be. Or if 0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:48.320 I'm working in podcasting, it's about for instance, Afterlives one 0:26:48.440 --> 0:26:51.960 podcast that's focused on the lives we've lost too soon 0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:55.719 to violence in the trans community. And so with Leileen 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:59.280 Polanco's story, who was the center of the first season, 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:04.000 we're talking about an Afro Latina trans woman who died 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:07.280 in Riker's custody. This is a black trans story, but 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:11.920 it's also a universal story. It's a story of someone incarcerated, 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:18.639 someone who had epilepsy and schizophrenia, someone who was a 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:24.520 sex worker. She was in ballroom culture, walk in face, honey, 0:27:24.720 --> 0:27:29.239 she was all of these different things, but also a 0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:34.159 black trans person or with Queer Chronicles. The podcast you 0:27:34.200 --> 0:27:38.280 were talking about that just released. This is a podcast 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:42.320 focused on how we can get queer and trans folks 0:27:42.320 --> 0:27:45.200