WEBVTT - Bowen Yang found his sense of humor during fourth grade recess 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.800 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Currict and this is next question. 0:00:05.400 --> 0:00:08.680 You are going to love this week's guest if you're 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:11.840 not already smitten. He's the co host of the cult 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:18.160 favorite podcast Lost Culture ristaag. He's killing it on Saturday 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.000 Night Live. Oh no, babe, you cannot stop TikTok. We 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.600 took videos and we made them shorter. We took babies 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.120 and we made them cuter. We took lip things and 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:32.440 we made them straight. Not to mention all sorts of 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.879 guest spots on hit comedy shows like Aquafina's Nora from Queens, 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:40.040 You're Dumplings, Look like the Pillsbury dood Boy Got Hate Crimes, 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.599 and The New Girls five Beba. I just shook. This 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:48.520 is real, pet, that's right. He's Bowen Yang. Wow, thank 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:50.919 you for having me. This is um This is very thrilling. 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:54.760 We got the full Bowen picture, from how we developed 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.880 his great sense of humor to how is Sketch about 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:01.959 an Iceberg became an Internet since station, But we started 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.640 by talking about his success and what he makes of it. 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.240 I don't know. I don't know, Katie, I mean, like, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:11.360 what do you make of it? Like? How should I be? 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:12.920 I feel like you've talked to so many people that 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.640 you must have some mental model of like what the 0:01:15.720 --> 0:01:18.480 best mindset is for people. Well, I don't know. I 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.320 feel like you were kind of destined for this moment 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.240 and this opportunity. No no, no, no no, just reading 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.160 all about you and your life and you know the 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.000 fact that your high school voted to you most likely 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:34.360 to appear on SNL, which is so funny and it's 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.720 just listen. It's just sort of everything kind of came together, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:41.960 and so I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you're 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.200 not so neurotic that you can't be like, wow, this 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:49.680 is pretty eff and cool. Well, I thank you for 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:52.440 saying that, because I think that has that has been 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:57.760 something that's like not held me back in any way. 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:00.760 But I whatever, I mean, you you probably can relate 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.440 to this. They asked me to write this like commencement 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.440 speechie thing for this like um whatever, this podcast that's 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:10.280 like putting out commencement speeches. And I wrote something, and 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.480 I thought about I thought back to my own commencement, 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:17.920 like my graduation experiences, and the theme for both of 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.560 those was that I was not present, that I was 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:23.560 just living in anxiety about what was coming next, and 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.120 I wish that I had sort of like understood that, 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.560 you know, commencement ceremonies like that are important for this, 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.560 like they're important unto themselves, Like they're important because you 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:39.960 don't because life doesn't give you opportunities to like ceremoniously 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.359 celebrate yourself in any way or like where you're at. 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:45.160 And I think I have very kind I wrote that, 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:47.560 and then I consciously thought, wow, maybe I should do this, 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:49.560 like this should apply to me now right, like I 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:53.919 should be kind of sitting very still whenever I can, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.880 with the idea that like, wow, this is this is why, 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.840 I mean, this is really special and I am living 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:05.640 the suxceptional thing that I think has happened both serendipitously 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:08.600 and fortuitously but also through through work, and like there's 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:10.760 there's there's a way to think about that in some 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:15.079 balanced way. And then my parents were in town this weekend. Um, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:18.760 I saw your mom on Saturday night. She was so cute. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:24.359 I loved her kissing you and then trying to yeah, yeah, 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.600 it was a good beat. It was a really cute 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:29.000 Did you guys come up with that together? That was 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.480 something that the writers of The Cold Open, Sudie Green 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.280 and Friend Gillespie did and I mean they had to 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:38.080 write some quick little comedy. They did a great job. 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.600 And I mean my my mom had a blast and 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:42.800 she had a lot of compliments from from people at 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:45.280 the show, being like, I mean prop work that is 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.200 that is not easy, that's very technical on TV and 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.000 so but yeah, I means she was in town and 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:53.000 she was even she turned to me yesterday she goes, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.760 but when you're very lucky to be doing what you're doing, 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.600 and I go, yeah, you're right, Like I kind of 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.480 I have gotten to some like jaded points in recent 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.720 in the past year that I've thought, oh God, like 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:13.240 this is I'm I'm sort of like just kind of 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.600 going through the motions sometimes and thinking that it's not 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:22.000 something that I I'm doing with the enthusiasm that I 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.719 want to have. Does that make sense? Yeah, But I 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.840 also think the pandemic sort of screwed everybody up, So 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.000 I think you should give yourself a pass on kind 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:38.080 of feeling some ambivalence, right, Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.600 I just but yeah, I mean, like, I but you're right, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.600 like this is I should be sitting with this with 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:46.760 as little to rosy as as possible, or or in 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:50.960 some healthy positioning where I don't have to think about 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.760 how God do I deserve this? Do I this? Do 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.640 I that? Yeah? Yeah, and you know, just enjoying it 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:02.559 because you know it's interesting because the work is work, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.320 but it's also work that clearly you have been sort 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.200 of training for in one way or another your whole life. 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.360 And sure and preparing for this interview. I loved hearing 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:19.360 sort of your really fascinating life story about your mom 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.599 and dad. They're both born in China, Yes, and both 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.440 very accomplished, right. Your dad's an engineer, uh sort of 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.800 with mining expertise, your mom is an ob g y 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.800 n UM and you all came to this country. Where 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.880 did where did they first move? So they first moved 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.200 They met in China, and they first moved to Brisbane, Australia, 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.440 where my dad was getting his doctorate. And then at 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.880 that point my mom sort of made the sacrifice to um, 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.960 I mean her, her her license didn't just transfer over 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:53.680 when she when she moved out of China, and so 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.600 she was sort of just making sure that we were 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.919 all kind of that the children were being raised for 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.680 a while before she got back into work. When we 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.039 moved to Canada, we moved to Kingston, Ontario then and 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:10.200 then um Montreal, UM, and then that's where my sister 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.520 and I were up until we were up until I 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.839 was like eight or nine, and then we moved to Denver, 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.719 Colorado in n and then I grew up there until 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:22.560 end of high school and then moved here in New 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.720 York to New York for college and I've just been 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:26.919 here ever since. But yeah, it's then that that's like 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:31.880 a really crazy little commonwealth pall thing that they've played. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.960 And your parents, do your parents still live in Aurora 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.479 or where do they live now? They're in Aurora. My 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.840 mom just retired a month ago, and it's looking good 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:43.040 on her and she but now so so now she's 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.840 in Atlanta, UM with my sister and she's raising two 0:06:46.880 --> 0:06:49.160 kids there and so my and so my mom's helping out, 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.960 and so it's it's it's at all. She just seems 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.760 I mean, she seems like genuinely happy and relaxed and 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:59.640 in a good state that I haven't really sort of 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:01.400 been able to like see up close in a while 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.080 because of because of work, because of the pandemic and 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:06.560 so yeah, I mean, like I I took in a 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.080 moment of gratitude last night when I you know, went 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.520 out with them for for for dinner, and I was 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:14.120 just like, okay, like I can just sort of soak 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.280 this moment into where like I see my mom and 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.960 dad being sort of happy and it all sort of 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.000 aligned correctly after like a whole life to my lifetime 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:26.040 of just like hardship and sacrifice, and then letting me 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.080 know that like, you know, you wouldn't have been born, 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.040 you're the second child, you wouldn't have been born if 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.680 we had stayed in China, you know, like they sort 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.200 of they don't like very spitefully remind me of that, 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:36.960 but they But every now and then my mom will 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:39.800 be like, you know, sometimes I think about what would 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:41.440 have happened, but what our lives would have been like 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:44.280 if we if your dad and I had stayed in China, 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.280 and and then that would have meant that I wouldn't 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.080 have been born with them the one child only policy, 0:07:51.160 --> 0:07:53.040 And so every now and then that kind of really 0:07:54.120 --> 0:07:57.240 messes with me on an existential level. But then I think, oh, 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.160 but then I should that just means I should be 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:03.240 even more grateful, you know, or whatever. I should just 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.440 experience this on a sensory level. Let's talk about growing up. 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.240 Because were you always the funny kid Bowen? Were you 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.960 the guy? Were you the class clown? Well? I was. 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.240 It was something that was like assigned to me in 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.800 a way, or it was just like a mirrored like 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.320 someone would tell you. Someone would tell me, oh, you're 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.240 you're funny, or you're like you're being a little like 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:29.480 you're being the class clown in a way that that 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:33.440 was either pejorative or complimentary. And so because we would 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.160 move around a lot, and even like in Canada we 0:08:35.240 --> 0:08:39.320 switched I I switched schools once or twice. It was 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.480 a thing where you had to adapt and as a kid, 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.400 that's very sort of tumultuous. But then the move from 0:08:47.520 --> 0:08:50.839 Canada from Quebec, where I spoke French in school and 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.160 English was like the tertiary language literally because it was 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:58.040 French in school, you know, Mandarin and at home uh 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.160 and then English every now and then when you would 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.760 like run into like when a babysitter, bird come over 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.920 or something. Um. But then moving from Quebec to Denver, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.480 was this this this really intense shock I know, it 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.360 seems like Canada and in the US are similar enough, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.000 but it was this thing where I was like, oh gosh, 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.400 like this is a whole new culture, you know. Um. 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.679 And I think I realized that even as a kid, um, 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:29.160 because I was moving to Colorado right after Johnny Ramsay, 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.520 which happened in Boulder and in Columbine, and I was like, 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.920 Colorado is the place where the people get murdered. And 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.480 I was just like so terrified. Um as like you 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:40.440 know an eight year old and nine year old that 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.800 I was like, uh, I think I went to school. 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:45.719 I remember the first day of school, going into the 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:50.160 fourth grade, just feeling anxious and just feeling like, um, 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.600 just going into that kid logic of being like, well, 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:55.160 you know, my mom's gonna drop me off and then 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.520 she's gonna get into a car accident and I'm gonna, 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.959 you know, be an orphan. It's really fourth So you 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.720 you were very cognizant of Jampany Ramsey and Columbine at 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.200 what eight or nine years old? Yeah, because I mean 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:09.520 it was all over the news. I mean back then 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.640 it was like all believe me because I covered all 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.800 that stuff. Yeah. But that's interesting that it kind of 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:22.120 uh seeped into your mindset and made you anxious, understandably totally. 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.640 And it was the thing that um, you know, teachers 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.320 in Montreal would be like, well, Bowen, Bowen's maybe into 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:32.000 Colorado to the US and we all know what happened 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:33.920 there recently. It was kind of like that, I mean, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:38.320 very morbid, very very very very very sad and scary. 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:46.440 Goot get him. And then I remember going to school, um, 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:48.640 not knowing how to make friends, not really being able 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:52.440 to speak the language. And then um, by like the 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.480 second week at recess, I had cheered up enough girls 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.080 who were who are who were like crying because someone 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.280 had said something mean to them or something that I'd 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:02.800 like run over there and like just try to like 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.720 get them, get them to stop crying or something, and 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.080 just because it made me upset to see them so 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.400 so upset. And that by like the third week of school, 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.960 this girl Victoria Results, and I've I've run into her 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.600 recently and I've told her this story, but she was like, oh, 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:22.319 when you're so funny, And that was like this like 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.840 someone conferring upon me this identity that I was, you know, 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.800 funny or I could like turn something on to to 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.360 make someone laugh or something elicit that out of them, 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:37.880 and then and then from there, like I really kind 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.440 of attached myself to that in a deep point. I 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:44.079 was like, well, this is my purpose in life is 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.640 to like do this. Um, but it sounds like it 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:49.960 was mixed with a lot of empathy. You know, that 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:54.360 you were very conscious of when people were suffering, Like 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.640 a lot of kids probably wouldn't go over there and 0:11:57.679 --> 0:12:00.360 help someone who had been hurt, So that it's kind 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:04.520 of an an unusual quality for a little boy, specially. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:09.680 I don't mean to gender no, but um, I think 0:12:09.720 --> 0:12:12.640 it takes a certain emotional intelligence to kind of pick 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.840 up on those things and to go to someone's rescue 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:19.440 that way. So you did have empathy along with the 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.880 ability to make people laugh, right, Oh my gosh. I 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.320 mean the fact that you are observing this out of 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:28.560 like immediately kind of picking up on this after I 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.959 after I sort of share that is is why you're 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.040 Katie correct. But anyway, but yeah, I guess, I guess. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:39.040 So yeah, so you you became sort of the funny guy. 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.960 And you not only became the funny guy, but you 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.000 also were obsessed with SNL. What at what age did 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.000 you start watching the show? I mean it probably a 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:49.920 too young age because it was right when I moved 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.200 to the US. And I don't believe we got it 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:54.880 in Canada back then in the nine in the late nineties, 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:57.000 because I didn't hear about it until I moved to 0:12:57.000 --> 0:12:59.360 the U s And then I forgot who was the 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.720 host one day, um, one one week, but my sister 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.960 told me about, Um, I'm going over to my friend's 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:09.760 house to watch this show called SNL. I was like, 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:11.680 I haven't heard of that, and she goes, oh, it's 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.920 the show where it's you know, little comedy skits is 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.160 how she described it. And you know, there's a celebrity 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.800 each week that comes in and is in all of them. 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.160 I was like, that sounds so cool. And then a 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.520 friend at school had also just been a fan of 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.160 the show. And this was back in like the CHERRYO 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.120 Terry Will Ferrell, Chris Kitan era, and so it was 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.280 all very broad and big and wacky and don't do drugs. 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.040 Who yeah, oh my god, I mean the Spartans like 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:41.520 that was like that was like my way in and 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:45.360 you know, and and I was Charlie's there, and that 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:47.720 was my first episode that I ever saw, Charlie's theren 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:54.840 was was the host there, and I went over to 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.880 my friend's house to watch it on a Saturday night. 0:13:57.559 --> 0:13:58.960 It was the neighbor's house and so I think my 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.280 parents like them my parents. It was just a dinner 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:03.120 party situation. And then it was Saturday, and so we 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.720 stayed up and launched and I thought, wow, this is 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:08.480 this is so cool and it's live. I mean, it 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:10.880 just it was just so many. It was just such 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.080 a get me up to speed on what American pop 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:19.320 culture was because I wasn't super tapped into it growing up, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.080 even just in Canada before we moved, wasn't super tapped 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.400 into it because my parents, you know, forbade cable. They 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:27.840 were like no cable, no TV whatever, all that stuff. 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.120 And then on Saturdays I would get to watch and 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:32.480 that was sort of my way of like learning and 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.280 getting the download on like what was happening in the world, 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.880 you know, and did when did you think? God, I 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.640 want to be on that show. I would love to 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:47.400 be in that ecosystem of SNL. I mean like with 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.560 I mean like pretty immediately, but I never I would 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:53.520 never even allow yourself why I wouldn't. I wouldn't even 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.640 conceive of the idea of I would be that that 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:57.920 that I would be on the show, and not for 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:01.680 any representation reason necessarily, but just because I was like, 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:07.800 I don't know, like it's such a big chasm of 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.400 like of like knowing of of having the idea of 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.080 all I want to be on SNL to being on SNL, 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.360 like I did not know. I remember going on. I 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.280 was curious about it enough to like go on to 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.880 like online like message boards on like IMDb or something 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.800 back when they had message boards, um, and it was 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.960 just looked into what the audition process was or a 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.040 researched like what Will Ferrell's audition process was, you know, 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.000 and seeing that, you know, you had to sort of 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:39.240 go through a program, some some developmental program at some 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.240 comedy theater too to to get noticed by a scout, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.520 I was just like, that sounds so foreign to me, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.920 and I have no idea what the entry point is, 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.520 and so I'm just going to maybe resign myself to 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:55.920 being like a fan from AFAR for the rest of 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.760 my life. And I was completely okay with I'd like 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:06.720 accepted that pretty pretty quickly. I want to say it 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.800 turns out he didn't have to accept that after all, Diddy, 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:13.560 We're going to get to SNL a little bit later 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:18.800 in our conversation, but coming up conversion therapy and Bowen's 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:32.760 complicated coming out story that's right after this. Before you 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.760 go to n y U. You're in high school and 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:40.880 your mom and dad discovered that you're gay, and uh, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:43.960 tell me about what that was like. And I'm curious 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.160 if if it was you know, at the if there 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:55.200 was any kind of cultural aspect to them understanding you know, 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:01.880 your your sexual preference because of being from China, and 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.360 just I'm fascinated by that. Can you set the stage 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.880 and how they discovered it and what happened? Yeah, yeah, 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.719 I might. I might be bouncing back and forth between 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.400 some some things that come back to me. But I 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:18.320 came home one day. It was senior year of high school, 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:22.200 and I'd come out to friends sophomore year of high 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.159 school at that point. Um, and then especially after my 0:17:25.200 --> 0:17:27.840 sister left for college, My sister goes to n y U. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:31.520 So then at that point she's not there to like 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.400 be this you know, liaison between me and my parents. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.280 I mean she because she would sort of keep an 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.880 eye on me at school and and sort of keep 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:47.240 me straight I mean figuratively speaking. Um. Uh So then 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.439 by the time she left for college, I felt some 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:55.919 like self definition, self awareness sort of kind of happening. Um. 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.680 And then it was like, you know, I'm gay. I 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.119 can tell my friends. I'm going to keep it a 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:04.560 secret from my parents, just because I knew that this 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:08.840 was something that they would have, um a hard time 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:12.160 understanding because of this cultural element of coming from China, 0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.720 where um, you'd watch a movie or something there'd be 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:18.399 a gay character or a gay kiss or something, and 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.560 I'd hear my dad especially say, this is so, this 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.840 is crazy, like that we never we never had people 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:26.960 like this in China. And he and he and he 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.879 grew up in you know, in a very rural area. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:36.000 Um it's I mean like these like this arid farm 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.800 in the middle of the desert and and and and 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:42.000 mainly in China, and so um it's not that he 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:46.360 but but but to him, I mean, he sort of 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.720 understood as fact that like there were no gay, queer 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:52.560 people at all where he grew up. But it's just 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:55.959 he still has a hard I still have a hard 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.480 time explaining to him. No, it's not that they weren't 0:18:57.480 --> 0:18:59.040 gay people where he gripped at. It's that you just 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:03.280 didn't know about them, um or they kept it a 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:08.760 secret or something. And I come home one day from 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:11.800 from class senior year. I meanwhile, I mean the signs 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.439 were there, the signals were there. I was I was 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.119 big into theater. I you know, I most of my 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.520 friends were just like I just had a certain sensibility 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.800 about them. And so I came home one day, uh, 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.920 to an open chat window that I had just like 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:34.200 just it was. It was very salacious, not so clean 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.720 chat window that I had open. And then my my 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:41.840 mother had printed out this this exchange and sort of 0:19:43.400 --> 0:19:45.400 had me go through it and just be like you 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.359 you you have to explain this. And then pretty quickly, 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.560 um my dad comes home and it's just me. It's 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:52.840 just it's just the three of us at home. My 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:54.840 sisters off in college, so it's the three of us 0:19:54.880 --> 0:20:00.439 just having these long, long, painful conference, painful conversations. I 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:02.199 just had to be like, yeah, this is this is 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:03.639 this is it. This is who I am. And it 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.080 wasn't me coming out on my own terms, but at 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:07.440 that point I just had to own up to it 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:10.919 because there had been like suspicions before that, my pay 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.120 that there had been things that my parents just kind 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.879 of decided to look the other way on. Um. But 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:19.679 this was finally a time where I thought, you know, 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:22.040 I'm about to go I'm about to go to college. 0:20:22.200 --> 0:20:24.040 I don't want to keep secrets from them. I've been 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:26.360 found out, but I might as well own up to it. 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.280 How did they react? Do you remember I had not 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:34.760 seen my father cry since I don't only my father 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.280 cry once, and that was when my grandfather passed away, 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:40.720 when his father passed away. And then I was coming 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.000 home to him and my mother crying every single day 0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.560 for like two weeks and just being like and just 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:53.520 truly feeling that, um, viscerally, I had done something wrong, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.960 that I had caused them pain and pain at a 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:02.320 level that I had not seen from my dad. Um. 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:07.920 And just like you know Asian soap opera, heaving sobs 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.200 from both of them and just must have been really 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:15.520 painful for you as a high school senior too, to 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:19.120 witness that. Sure, yeah, absolutely, and and so and so 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.359 I mean with that, with that sort of context, and 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:26.600 with the context of them being these two scientifically minded 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:31.640 people and these these immigrants who had like sacrificed so much. 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:33.359 I mean, the idea of me moving to a country 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.000 where I didn't speak the language and I would be 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.760 like automatically in the minority, it just as wild to me. 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.399 Wild to me, and and and I didn't take that 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.320 for granted back then. And then they also were solutions 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.640 oriented people, and so to them. I mean, my dad 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:52.240 didn't understand sort of the what the cultural forces behind 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:55.080 what conversion therapy meant, but he was he was out 0:21:55.119 --> 0:21:58.800 here looking for solutions and he came across a solution 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:03.080 one day. I come home a couple of weeks after I, uh, 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:05.280 you know, the chat window had been printed out. I 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:09.080 came home to my dad presenting to me this sheet 0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:11.760 of paper, this this website that he'd printed out of 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:15.760 this you know, the therapist who was based out of 0:22:15.760 --> 0:22:20.760 Colorado Springs, UM, who specialized in this, in this conversion therapy. 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:24.120 And he said, we are going to go down there 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:27.000 once a week. And it's a it's a two hour drive, 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:28.800