1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Currict and this is next question.

2
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,680
Speaker 1: You are going to love this week's guest if you're

3
00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,840
Speaker 1: not already smitten. He's the co host of the cult

4
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:18,160
Speaker 1: favorite podcast Lost Culture ristaag. He's killing it on Saturday

5
00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,000
Speaker 1: Night Live. Oh no, babe, you cannot stop TikTok. We

6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,600
Speaker 1: took videos and we made them shorter. We took babies

7
00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,120
Speaker 1: and we made them cuter. We took lip things and

8
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 1: we made them straight. Not to mention all sorts of

9
00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,879
Speaker 1: guest spots on hit comedy shows like Aquafina's Nora from Queens,

10
00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:40,040
Speaker 1: You're Dumplings, Look like the Pillsbury dood Boy Got Hate Crimes,

11
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,599
Speaker 1: and The New Girls five Beba. I just shook. This

12
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,520
Speaker 1: is real, pet, that's right. He's Bowen Yang. Wow, thank

13
00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,919
Speaker 1: you for having me. This is um This is very thrilling.

14
00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,760
Speaker 1: We got the full Bowen picture, from how we developed

15
00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,880
Speaker 1: his great sense of humor to how is Sketch about

16
00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,959
Speaker 1: an Iceberg became an Internet since station, But we started

17
00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,640
Speaker 1: by talking about his success and what he makes of it.

18
00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know, Katie, I mean, like,

19
00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,360
Speaker 1: what do you make of it? Like? How should I be?

20
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 1: I feel like you've talked to so many people that

21
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,640
Speaker 1: you must have some mental model of like what the

22
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 1: best mindset is for people. Well, I don't know. I

23
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,320
Speaker 1: feel like you were kind of destined for this moment

24
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,240
Speaker 1: and this opportunity. No no, no, no no, just reading

25
00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:28,160
Speaker 1: all about you and your life and you know the

26
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: fact that your high school voted to you most likely

27
00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,360
Speaker 1: to appear on SNL, which is so funny and it's

28
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:37,720
Speaker 1: just listen. It's just sort of everything kind of came together,

29
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,960
Speaker 1: and so I hope you're enjoying it. I hope you're

30
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,200
Speaker 1: not so neurotic that you can't be like, wow, this

31
00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: is pretty eff and cool. Well, I thank you for

32
00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: saying that, because I think that has that has been

33
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,760
Speaker 1: something that's like not held me back in any way.

34
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 1: But I whatever, I mean, you you probably can relate

35
00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: to this. They asked me to write this like commencement

36
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,440
Speaker 1: speechie thing for this like um whatever, this podcast that's

37
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,280
Speaker 1: like putting out commencement speeches. And I wrote something, and

38
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 1: I thought about I thought back to my own commencement,

39
00:02:13,120 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 1: like my graduation experiences, and the theme for both of

40
00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: those was that I was not present, that I was

41
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: just living in anxiety about what was coming next, and

42
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,120
Speaker 1: I wish that I had sort of like understood that,

43
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,560
Speaker 1: you know, commencement ceremonies like that are important for this,

44
00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 1: like they're important unto themselves, Like they're important because you

45
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,960
Speaker 1: don't because life doesn't give you opportunities to like ceremoniously

46
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,359
Speaker 1: celebrate yourself in any way or like where you're at.

47
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,160
Speaker 1: And I think I have very kind I wrote that,

48
00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:47,560
Speaker 1: and then I consciously thought, wow, maybe I should do this,

49
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 1: like this should apply to me now right, like I

50
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 1: should be kind of sitting very still whenever I can,

51
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,880
Speaker 1: with the idea that like, wow, this is this is why,

52
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean, this is really special and I am living

53
00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:05,640
Speaker 1: the suxceptional thing that I think has happened both serendipitously

54
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,600
Speaker 1: and fortuitously but also through through work, and like there's

55
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:10,760
Speaker 1: there's there's a way to think about that in some

56
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,079
Speaker 1: balanced way. And then my parents were in town this weekend. Um,

57
00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: I saw your mom on Saturday night. She was so cute.

58
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:24,359
Speaker 1: I loved her kissing you and then trying to yeah, yeah,

59
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 1: it was a good beat. It was a really cute

60
00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 1: Did you guys come up with that together? That was

61
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: something that the writers of The Cold Open, Sudie Green

62
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,280
Speaker 1: and Friend Gillespie did and I mean they had to

63
00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:38,080
Speaker 1: write some quick little comedy. They did a great job.

64
00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 1: And I mean my my mom had a blast and

65
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,800
Speaker 1: she had a lot of compliments from from people at

66
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,280
Speaker 1: the show, being like, I mean prop work that is

67
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,200
Speaker 1: that is not easy, that's very technical on TV and

68
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: so but yeah, I means she was in town and

69
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: she was even she turned to me yesterday she goes,

70
00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,760
Speaker 1: but when you're very lucky to be doing what you're doing,

71
00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 1: and I go, yeah, you're right, Like I kind of

72
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 1: I have gotten to some like jaded points in recent

73
00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,720
Speaker 1: in the past year that I've thought, oh God, like

74
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 1: this is I'm I'm sort of like just kind of

75
00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 1: going through the motions sometimes and thinking that it's not

76
00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 1: something that I I'm doing with the enthusiasm that I

77
00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,719
Speaker 1: want to have. Does that make sense? Yeah, But I

78
00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,840
Speaker 1: also think the pandemic sort of screwed everybody up, So

79
00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,000
Speaker 1: I think you should give yourself a pass on kind

80
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:38,080
Speaker 1: of feeling some ambivalence, right, Yeah, yeah, totally, totally, totally.

81
00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:40,600
Speaker 1: I just but yeah, I mean, like, I but you're right,

82
00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,600
Speaker 1: like this is I should be sitting with this with

83
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,760
Speaker 1: as little to rosy as as possible, or or in

84
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,960
Speaker 1: some healthy positioning where I don't have to think about

85
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,760
Speaker 1: how God do I deserve this? Do I this? Do

86
00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,640
Speaker 1: I that? Yeah? Yeah, and you know, just enjoying it

87
00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,559
Speaker 1: because you know it's interesting because the work is work,

88
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:07,320
Speaker 1: but it's also work that clearly you have been sort

89
00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 1: of training for in one way or another your whole life.

90
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 1: And sure and preparing for this interview. I loved hearing

91
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,360
Speaker 1: sort of your really fascinating life story about your mom

92
00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,599
Speaker 1: and dad. They're both born in China, Yes, and both

93
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 1: very accomplished, right. Your dad's an engineer, uh sort of

94
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,800
Speaker 1: with mining expertise, your mom is an ob g y

95
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,800
Speaker 1: n UM and you all came to this country. Where

96
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,880
Speaker 1: did where did they first move? So they first moved

97
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: They met in China, and they first moved to Brisbane, Australia,

98
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 1: where my dad was getting his doctorate. And then at

99
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,880
Speaker 1: that point my mom sort of made the sacrifice to um,

100
00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 1: I mean her, her her license didn't just transfer over

101
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:53,680
Speaker 1: when she when she moved out of China, and so

102
00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:57,600
Speaker 1: she was sort of just making sure that we were

103
00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,919
Speaker 1: all kind of that the children were being raised for

104
00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,680
Speaker 1: a while before she got back into work. When we

105
00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,039
Speaker 1: moved to Canada, we moved to Kingston, Ontario then and

106
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: then um Montreal, UM, and then that's where my sister

107
00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,520
Speaker 1: and I were up until we were up until I

108
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,839
Speaker 1: was like eight or nine, and then we moved to Denver,

109
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,719
Speaker 1: Colorado in n and then I grew up there until

110
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,560
Speaker 1: end of high school and then moved here in New

111
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:24,720
Speaker 1: York to New York for college and I've just been

112
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,919
Speaker 1: here ever since. But yeah, it's then that that's like

113
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,880
Speaker 1: a really crazy little commonwealth pall thing that they've played. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

114
00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,960
Speaker 1: And your parents, do your parents still live in Aurora

115
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 1: or where do they live now? They're in Aurora. My

116
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: mom just retired a month ago, and it's looking good

117
00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:43,040
Speaker 1: on her and she but now so so now she's

118
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,840
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, UM with my sister and she's raising two

119
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,160
Speaker 1: kids there and so my and so my mom's helping out,

120
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: and so it's it's it's at all. She just seems

121
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,760
Speaker 1: I mean, she seems like genuinely happy and relaxed and

122
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,640
Speaker 1: in a good state that I haven't really sort of

123
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 1: been able to like see up close in a while

124
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,080
Speaker 1: because of because of work, because of the pandemic and

125
00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,560
Speaker 1: so yeah, I mean, like I I took in a

126
00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 1: moment of gratitude last night when I you know, went

127
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,520
Speaker 1: out with them for for for dinner, and I was

128
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,120
Speaker 1: just like, okay, like I can just sort of soak

129
00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,280
Speaker 1: this moment into where like I see my mom and

130
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,960
Speaker 1: dad being sort of happy and it all sort of

131
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 1: aligned correctly after like a whole life to my lifetime

132
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: of just like hardship and sacrifice, and then letting me

133
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: know that like, you know, you wouldn't have been born,

134
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: you're the second child, you wouldn't have been born if

135
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,680
Speaker 1: we had stayed in China, you know, like they sort

136
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 1: of they don't like very spitefully remind me of that,

137
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:36,960
Speaker 1: but they But every now and then my mom will

138
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,800
Speaker 1: be like, you know, sometimes I think about what would

139
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:41,440
Speaker 1: have happened, but what our lives would have been like

140
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:44,280
Speaker 1: if we if your dad and I had stayed in China,

141
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 1: and and then that would have meant that I wouldn't

142
00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,080
Speaker 1: have been born with them the one child only policy,

143
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 1: And so every now and then that kind of really

144
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,240
Speaker 1: messes with me on an existential level. But then I think, oh,

145
00:07:57,280 --> 00:07:59,160
Speaker 1: but then I should that just means I should be

146
00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:03,240
Speaker 1: even more grateful, you know, or whatever. I should just

147
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: experience this on a sensory level. Let's talk about growing up.

148
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 1: Because were you always the funny kid Bowen? Were you

149
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,960
Speaker 1: the guy? Were you the class clown? Well? I was.

150
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,240
Speaker 1: It was something that was like assigned to me in

151
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 1: a way, or it was just like a mirrored like

152
00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,320
Speaker 1: someone would tell you. Someone would tell me, oh, you're

153
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: you're funny, or you're like you're being a little like

154
00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 1: you're being the class clown in a way that that

155
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,440
Speaker 1: was either pejorative or complimentary. And so because we would

156
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,160
Speaker 1: move around a lot, and even like in Canada we

157
00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 1: switched I I switched schools once or twice. It was

158
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: a thing where you had to adapt and as a kid,

159
00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 1: that's very sort of tumultuous. But then the move from

160
00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,839
Speaker 1: Canada from Quebec, where I spoke French in school and

161
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:54,160
Speaker 1: English was like the tertiary language literally because it was

162
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,040
Speaker 1: French in school, you know, Mandarin and at home uh

163
00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,160
Speaker 1: and then English every now and then when you would

164
00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 1: like run into like when a babysitter, bird come over

165
00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,920
Speaker 1: or something. Um. But then moving from Quebec to Denver,

166
00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 1: was this this this really intense shock I know, it

167
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 1: seems like Canada and in the US are similar enough,

168
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,000
Speaker 1: but it was this thing where I was like, oh gosh,

169
00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,400
Speaker 1: like this is a whole new culture, you know. Um.

170
00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,679
Speaker 1: And I think I realized that even as a kid, um,

171
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 1: because I was moving to Colorado right after Johnny Ramsay,

172
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,520
Speaker 1: which happened in Boulder and in Columbine, and I was like,

173
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 1: Colorado is the place where the people get murdered. And

174
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,480
Speaker 1: I was just like so terrified. Um as like you

175
00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 1: know an eight year old and nine year old that

176
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,800
Speaker 1: I was like, uh, I think I went to school.

177
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:45,719
Speaker 1: I remember the first day of school, going into the

178
00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,160
Speaker 1: fourth grade, just feeling anxious and just feeling like, um,

179
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,600
Speaker 1: just going into that kid logic of being like, well,

180
00:09:53,679 --> 00:09:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, my mom's gonna drop me off and then

181
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 1: she's gonna get into a car accident and I'm gonna,

182
00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,959
Speaker 1: you know, be an orphan. It's really fourth So you

183
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,720
Speaker 1: you were very cognizant of Jampany Ramsey and Columbine at

184
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,200
Speaker 1: what eight or nine years old? Yeah, because I mean

185
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:09,520
Speaker 1: it was all over the news. I mean back then

186
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 1: it was like all believe me because I covered all

187
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,800
Speaker 1: that stuff. Yeah. But that's interesting that it kind of

188
00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 1: uh seeped into your mindset and made you anxious, understandably totally.

189
00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,640
Speaker 1: And it was the thing that um, you know, teachers

190
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 1: in Montreal would be like, well, Bowen, Bowen's maybe into

191
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: Colorado to the US and we all know what happened

192
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:33,920
Speaker 1: there recently. It was kind of like that, I mean,

193
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 1: very morbid, very very very very very sad and scary.

194
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:46,440
Speaker 1: Goot get him. And then I remember going to school, um,

195
00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: not knowing how to make friends, not really being able

196
00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 1: to speak the language. And then um, by like the

197
00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,480
Speaker 1: second week at recess, I had cheered up enough girls

198
00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,080
Speaker 1: who were who are who were like crying because someone

199
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: had said something mean to them or something that I'd

200
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,800
Speaker 1: like run over there and like just try to like

201
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,720
Speaker 1: get them, get them to stop crying or something, and

202
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,080
Speaker 1: just because it made me upset to see them so

203
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 1: so upset. And that by like the third week of school,

204
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,960
Speaker 1: this girl Victoria Results, and I've I've run into her

205
00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,600
Speaker 1: recently and I've told her this story, but she was like, oh,

206
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,319
Speaker 1: when you're so funny, And that was like this like

207
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,840
Speaker 1: someone conferring upon me this identity that I was, you know,

208
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,800
Speaker 1: funny or I could like turn something on to to

209
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,360
Speaker 1: make someone laugh or something elicit that out of them,

210
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,880
Speaker 1: and then and then from there, like I really kind

211
00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,440
Speaker 1: of attached myself to that in a deep point. I

212
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,079
Speaker 1: was like, well, this is my purpose in life is

213
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 1: to like do this. Um, but it sounds like it

214
00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,960
Speaker 1: was mixed with a lot of empathy. You know, that

215
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:54,360
Speaker 1: you were very conscious of when people were suffering, Like

216
00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,640
Speaker 1: a lot of kids probably wouldn't go over there and

217
00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,360
Speaker 1: help someone who had been hurt, So that it's kind

218
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,520
Speaker 1: of an an unusual quality for a little boy, specially.

219
00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't mean to gender no, but um, I think

220
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 1: it takes a certain emotional intelligence to kind of pick

221
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,840
Speaker 1: up on those things and to go to someone's rescue

222
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,440
Speaker 1: that way. So you did have empathy along with the

223
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: ability to make people laugh, right, Oh my gosh. I

224
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:25,320
Speaker 1: mean the fact that you are observing this out of

225
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,560
Speaker 1: like immediately kind of picking up on this after I

226
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:30,959
Speaker 1: after I sort of share that is is why you're

227
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,040
Speaker 1: Katie correct. But anyway, but yeah, I guess, I guess.

228
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:39,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, so you you became sort of the funny guy.

229
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 1: And you not only became the funny guy, but you

230
00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,000
Speaker 1: also were obsessed with SNL. What at what age did

231
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,000
Speaker 1: you start watching the show? I mean it probably a

232
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:49,920
Speaker 1: too young age because it was right when I moved

233
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 1: to the US. And I don't believe we got it

234
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: in Canada back then in the nine in the late nineties,

235
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,000
Speaker 1: because I didn't hear about it until I moved to

236
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 1: the U s And then I forgot who was the

237
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:03,720
Speaker 1: host one day, um, one one week, but my sister

238
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: told me about, Um, I'm going over to my friend's

239
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: house to watch this show called SNL. I was like,

240
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:11,680
Speaker 1: I haven't heard of that, and she goes, oh, it's

241
00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,920
Speaker 1: the show where it's you know, little comedy skits is

242
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,160
Speaker 1: how she described it. And you know, there's a celebrity

243
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: each week that comes in and is in all of them.

244
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: I was like, that sounds so cool. And then a

245
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,520
Speaker 1: friend at school had also just been a fan of

246
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 1: the show. And this was back in like the CHERRYO

247
00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 1: Terry Will Ferrell, Chris Kitan era, and so it was

248
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 1: all very broad and big and wacky and don't do drugs.

249
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,040
Speaker 1: Who yeah, oh my god, I mean the Spartans like

250
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,520
Speaker 1: that was like that was like my way in and

251
00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,360
Speaker 1: you know, and and I was Charlie's there, and that

252
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,720
Speaker 1: was my first episode that I ever saw, Charlie's theren

253
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:54,840
Speaker 1: was was the host there, and I went over to

254
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:56,880
Speaker 1: my friend's house to watch it on a Saturday night.

255
00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:58,960
Speaker 1: It was the neighbor's house and so I think my

256
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: parents like them my parents. It was just a dinner

257
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 1: party situation. And then it was Saturday, and so we

258
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,720
Speaker 1: stayed up and launched and I thought, wow, this is

259
00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 1: this is so cool and it's live. I mean, it

260
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,880
Speaker 1: just it was just so many. It was just such

261
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,080
Speaker 1: a get me up to speed on what American pop

262
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,320
Speaker 1: culture was because I wasn't super tapped into it growing up,

263
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: even just in Canada before we moved, wasn't super tapped

264
00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 1: into it because my parents, you know, forbade cable. They

265
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,840
Speaker 1: were like no cable, no TV whatever, all that stuff.

266
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 1: And then on Saturdays I would get to watch and

267
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,480
Speaker 1: that was sort of my way of like learning and

268
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:36,280
Speaker 1: getting the download on like what was happening in the world,

269
00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, and did when did you think? God, I

270
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: want to be on that show. I would love to

271
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: be in that ecosystem of SNL. I mean like with

272
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,560
Speaker 1: I mean like pretty immediately, but I never I would

273
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,520
Speaker 1: never even allow yourself why I wouldn't. I wouldn't even

274
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,640
Speaker 1: conceive of the idea of I would be that that

275
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:57,920
Speaker 1: that I would be on the show, and not for

276
00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 1: any representation reason necessarily, but just because I was like,

277
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 1: I don't know, like it's such a big chasm of

278
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:10,400
Speaker 1: like of like knowing of of having the idea of

279
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: all I want to be on SNL to being on SNL,

280
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,360
Speaker 1: like I did not know. I remember going on. I

281
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 1: was curious about it enough to like go on to

282
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: like online like message boards on like IMDb or something

283
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,800
Speaker 1: back when they had message boards, um, and it was

284
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,960
Speaker 1: just looked into what the audition process was or a

285
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: researched like what Will Ferrell's audition process was, you know,

286
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:34,000
Speaker 1: and seeing that, you know, you had to sort of

287
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:39,240
Speaker 1: go through a program, some some developmental program at some

288
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,240
Speaker 1: comedy theater too to to get noticed by a scout,

289
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 1: I was just like, that sounds so foreign to me,

290
00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,920
Speaker 1: and I have no idea what the entry point is,

291
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 1: and so I'm just going to maybe resign myself to

292
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,920
Speaker 1: being like a fan from AFAR for the rest of

293
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 1: my life. And I was completely okay with I'd like

294
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:06,720
Speaker 1: accepted that pretty pretty quickly. I want to say it

295
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 1: turns out he didn't have to accept that after all, Diddy,

296
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,560
Speaker 1: We're going to get to SNL a little bit later

297
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:18,800
Speaker 1: in our conversation, but coming up conversion therapy and Bowen's

298
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: complicated coming out story that's right after this. Before you

299
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: go to n y U. You're in high school and

300
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:40,880
Speaker 1: your mom and dad discovered that you're gay, and uh,

301
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: tell me about what that was like. And I'm curious

302
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 1: if if it was you know, at the if there

303
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:55,200
Speaker 1: was any kind of cultural aspect to them understanding you know,

304
00:16:56,040 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 1: your your sexual preference because of being from China, and

305
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,360
Speaker 1: just I'm fascinated by that. Can you set the stage

306
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,880
Speaker 1: and how they discovered it and what happened? Yeah, yeah,

307
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,719
Speaker 1: I might. I might be bouncing back and forth between

308
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,400
Speaker 1: some some things that come back to me. But I

309
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,320
Speaker 1: came home one day. It was senior year of high school,

310
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 1: and I'd come out to friends sophomore year of high

311
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,159
Speaker 1: school at that point. Um, and then especially after my

312
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: sister left for college, My sister goes to n y U.

313
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 1: So then at that point she's not there to like

314
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 1: be this you know, liaison between me and my parents.

315
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,280
Speaker 1: I mean she because she would sort of keep an

316
00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,880
Speaker 1: eye on me at school and and sort of keep

317
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,240
Speaker 1: me straight I mean figuratively speaking. Um. Uh So then

318
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:50,439
Speaker 1: by the time she left for college, I felt some

319
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,919
Speaker 1: like self definition, self awareness sort of kind of happening. Um.

320
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,680
Speaker 1: And then it was like, you know, I'm gay. I

321
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,119
Speaker 1: can tell my friends. I'm going to keep it a

322
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 1: secret from my parents, just because I knew that this

323
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: was something that they would have, um a hard time

324
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,160
Speaker 1: understanding because of this cultural element of coming from China,

325
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,720
Speaker 1: where um, you'd watch a movie or something there'd be

326
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 1: a gay character or a gay kiss or something, and

327
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,560
Speaker 1: I'd hear my dad especially say, this is so, this

328
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:24,840
Speaker 1: is crazy, like that we never we never had people

329
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,960
Speaker 1: like this in China. And he and he and he

330
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:29,879
Speaker 1: grew up in you know, in a very rural area.

331
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:36,000
Speaker 1: Um it's I mean like these like this arid farm

332
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 1: in the middle of the desert and and and and

333
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 1: mainly in China, and so um it's not that he

334
00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,360
Speaker 1: but but but to him, I mean, he sort of

335
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 1: understood as fact that like there were no gay, queer

336
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:52,560
Speaker 1: people at all where he grew up. But it's just

337
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:55,959
Speaker 1: he still has a hard I still have a hard

338
00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 1: time explaining to him. No, it's not that they weren't

339
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: gay people where he gripped at. It's that you just

340
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 1: didn't know about them, um or they kept it a

341
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:08,760
Speaker 1: secret or something. And I come home one day from

342
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: from class senior year. I meanwhile, I mean the signs

343
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,439
Speaker 1: were there, the signals were there. I was I was

344
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,119
Speaker 1: big into theater. I you know, I most of my

345
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 1: friends were just like I just had a certain sensibility

346
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: about them. And so I came home one day, uh,

347
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 1: to an open chat window that I had just like

348
00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: just it was. It was very salacious, not so clean

349
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: chat window that I had open. And then my my

350
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: mother had printed out this this exchange and sort of

351
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 1: had me go through it and just be like you

352
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,359
Speaker 1: you you have to explain this. And then pretty quickly,

353
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,560
Speaker 1: um my dad comes home and it's just me. It's

354
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: just it's just the three of us at home. My

355
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 1: sisters off in college, so it's the three of us

356
00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,439
Speaker 1: just having these long, long, painful conference, painful conversations. I

357
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 1: just had to be like, yeah, this is this is

358
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,639
Speaker 1: this is it. This is who I am. And it

359
00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: wasn't me coming out on my own terms, but at

360
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:07,440
Speaker 1: that point I just had to own up to it

361
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 1: because there had been like suspicions before that, my pay

362
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,120
Speaker 1: that there had been things that my parents just kind

363
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: of decided to look the other way on. Um. But

364
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: this was finally a time where I thought, you know,

365
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm about to go I'm about to go to college.

366
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to keep secrets from them. I've been

367
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: found out, but I might as well own up to it.

368
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,280
Speaker 1: How did they react? Do you remember I had not

369
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,760
Speaker 1: seen my father cry since I don't only my father

370
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: cry once, and that was when my grandfather passed away,

371
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: when his father passed away. And then I was coming

372
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,000
Speaker 1: home to him and my mother crying every single day

373
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:47,560
Speaker 1: for like two weeks and just being like and just

374
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: truly feeling that, um, viscerally, I had done something wrong,

375
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 1: that I had caused them pain and pain at a

376
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: level that I had not seen from my dad. Um.

377
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 1: And just like you know Asian soap opera, heaving sobs

378
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,200
Speaker 1: from both of them and just must have been really

379
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 1: painful for you as a high school senior too, to

380
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: witness that. Sure, yeah, absolutely, and and so and so

381
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: I mean with that, with that sort of context, and

382
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 1: with the context of them being these two scientifically minded

383
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: people and these these immigrants who had like sacrificed so much.

384
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: I mean, the idea of me moving to a country

385
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: where I didn't speak the language and I would be

386
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 1: like automatically in the minority, it just as wild to me.

387
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 1: Wild to me, and and and I didn't take that

388
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 1: for granted back then. And then they also were solutions

389
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: oriented people, and so to them. I mean, my dad

390
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: didn't understand sort of the what the cultural forces behind

391
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: what conversion therapy meant, but he was he was out

392
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,800
Speaker 1: here looking for solutions and he came across a solution

393
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 1: one day. I come home a couple of weeks after I, uh,

394
00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,280
Speaker 1: you know, the chat window had been printed out. I

395
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 1: came home to my dad presenting to me this sheet

396
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,760
Speaker 1: of paper, this this website that he'd printed out of

397
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 1: this you know, the therapist who was based out of

398
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: Colorado Springs, UM, who specialized in this, in this conversion therapy.

399
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: And he said, we are going to go down there

400
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: once a week. And it's a it's a two hour drive,

401
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: two hour right each way, but we're gonna go We're

402
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: gonna go there once a week, UM, and you're gonna

403
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: talk to this man and it will be for eight sessions.

404
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,400
Speaker 1: It'll be through the summer. And the ultimatum was if

405
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: you if you go to these sessions, then you can

406
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,159
Speaker 1: go to college out of state. And I all I

407
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,760
Speaker 1: had wanted was to was to leave Colorado for school

408
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: and just and be in New York or being I mean,

409
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,280
Speaker 1: my choices were between U C l A and n

410
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: y U. Those are my final two choices. And then

411
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: they had kind of given me this ultimatum to be like,

412
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: you can go to those schools if you go to

413
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,280
Speaker 1: this this therapy. And again, I mean, but I also

414
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 1: wanted just like put that in context. It was not

415
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 1: like a threat. It was just like, please just do

416
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 1: this for us. I mean it was it was the

417
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: dynamic of this was it was constantly shifting. It was

418
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: either I was I was doing something wrong or that

419
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 1: they were, or that they were in more pain than

420
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 1: I was. I mean, it was very hard to gauge um,

421
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,399
Speaker 1: and for me as a seventeen year old to be like,

422
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 1: what what is what is going on? Um? So as

423
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: I just went with it because I had never seen

424
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: my parents this miserable. I was like, I have to

425
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 1: do right by them in some way for them to

426
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,520
Speaker 1: stop feeling this this pain. UM. So then I mean,

427
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,359
Speaker 1: by then I had I had sort of decided to

428
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: go to n y U because my sister was there.

429
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,240
Speaker 1: And that was also another element of it, because they

430
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: my parents would feel better about me going to n

431
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,120
Speaker 1: y U because my sister could be there as sort

432
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 1: of this chaperone figure. Um. But yeah, I went to

433
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 1: eight sessions of this um conversion therapy and what was that?

434
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,399
Speaker 1: What was conversion therapy like going? You know, it was

435
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 1: actually at banal overall, which which kind of surprises people,

436
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: like it wasn't like the melodramatic thing of like electrodes

437
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. It was. It was it was

438
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: me and and and the people who to do experience that.

439
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 1: Um gosh, I mean, there's I'm very lucky that that's

440
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: not what that was for me. UM. But what it

441
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: was for me was this easing into this like framework

442
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 1: that UM, same sex attractions are like un uncouth or

443
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: should be undesirable or um are morally sort of wrong.

444
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: And you know the first few sessions were pretty standard,

445
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 1: just resembled talk therapy, resembled like even the therapy that

446
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 1: I have. Now I'm like, oh, this is remarkably similar

447
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,439
Speaker 1: to what I my first experience with this, which was

448
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 1: under these very wild pretenses um, but that and by

449
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: the fourth or fifth session, he had started to sort

450
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 1: of work in this thing of like, okay, let's go

451
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: through one by one or or as specifically as you can,

452
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: like instances where you felt attracted to another man. And

453
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,640
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, I haven't cataloged all of them

454
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: like individually, but okay, we'll start with this. And then

455
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 1: he would just kind of try to link those um

456
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 1: moments to some physical sensation like physical sense memory, and

457
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: then and then it was it would be kind of

458
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: leading questions two, get me to say that I was

459
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: attracted to another man because I was feeling bad about

460
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: myself or because I was in physical discomfort or pain

461
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 1: or something. And it was just sort of this like

462
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: very insidious way of like trying to tell me or

463
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: internalize this idea that like being gays, to to have

464
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 1: that your sexual preference is a is a result of

465
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: your external circumstances, that a strange association. And so you

466
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: go through all these sessions for your parents because you

467
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: love them, and as you said, you've never seen them

468
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: so miserable. And did you come home and say or

469
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: did you kind of let sleeping dogs lie head off

470
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: to n y U and just hope that time would

471
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: acclimate them and make them become more accepting. It was

472
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 1: the ladder, but then even at the bed there was

473
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: like a one inch tall person in my head that

474
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: was like, maybe this, maybe this works, Maybe this works.

475
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 1: Maybe you go to n y U and everyone tries

476
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: to reinvent themselves in some way when they go to college. Um,

477
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe you try this on for size

478
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 1: being straight, and so UM went to m y U

479
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: my freshman year, I move in with my sister. UM

480
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: did not do that, did not do the dorms. Moved

481
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: in with my sister and thought, wow, okay, I mean

482
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: she is the room next to mine. She knows everything

483
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: that I am doing, and that's sort of a that's

484
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: sort of an interesting experience for me to like go

485
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 1: to college and like still and feel like I'm a family.

486
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 1: And Um it was. But it was a great time.

487
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: I mean, like she and I still say, like, I

488
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 1: mean we were great roommates. We were great roommates. Which

489
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: was she accepting though of the fact that you were

490
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: gay or I mean, how where did she come down

491
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: on this? She was put in this very tough spot

492
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: to like mediate both sides, um, just to just to

493
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: truly be someone who had to like communicate between me

494
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 1: and my parents, whether it was because of a language

495
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: barrier or cultural barrier or whatever, like this is where

496
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: this person is coming from. And and I think both sides,

497
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: both me and my parents were upset at her for

498
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:55,400
Speaker 1: different reasons at various points. I mean, I remember one time, Um,

499
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: she knocked on my door and sort of slipped um

500
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: or she knocked on my door and she handed me

501
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 1: this book that was written by some like conversion therapy

502
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: and quack and I was just like, I don't want

503
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 1: to read that, um. And then she was like, well,

504
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: it would mean a lot to mom and dad if

505
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: you did. And I remember being very upset at her

506
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 1: for a long time, um, for that specific incident. Um.

507
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: So she was kind of she was trying to keep

508
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: the peace and the family totally. And she and like

509
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,639
Speaker 1: that's its own sort of emotional labor that like I

510
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: still haven't fully like not appreciated, but I haven't fully

511
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: like thought about that in a way that like, oh God,

512
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,360
Speaker 1: like she was in her own tough spot, she was

513
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: in her own personal health when when when that whole

514
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: situation happened, it wasn't even like this side versus that, um.

515
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 1: It was like my parents sort of expressing some care

516
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: and love for me because they had been socialized to

517
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: think that being gay was um COINI sent me back,

518
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: it was going to put me in danger and all

519
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: these different things, and they were just they were being protective.

520
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's hard. It's still hard to

521
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: pass out where that protective instinct starts and where the

522
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: homophobia ends or the other way around, you know, And

523
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: how are they feeling. Was there a moment where, uh,

524
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: you felt like your parents kind of adjusted or accepted

525
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: and said this is you know, because it's interesting, I've

526
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 1: been writing a memoir and I I was looking back

527
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: at how we covered Matthew Shepard and then I interviewed

528
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: Jim o'burghafell, who was the plaintiff in the Supreme Court

529
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: case that legalized same sex marriage. And it's actually really

530
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: unbelievable how far we have come. It's something that we

531
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: don't really it just in the last twenty five years

532
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: or more when it comes to you know, accepting gay relationships, etcetera,

533
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: and really celebrating gay relationships and how are they feeling

534
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: today versus you know, your thirty. So this we're talking

535
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: about twelve years ago, right or twelve or thirteen years ago?

536
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: Have they kind of reached at least maybe an uncomfortable

537
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: acceptance or how are they feeling about it now? I

538
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: think they have reached it? Um, I mean yesterday. I

539
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: mean yeah again, I'm thirty and so uh, naturally they're

540
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 1: thinking about grandkids for me, I mean kids for me,

541
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: and so they're like, how would you go about that?

542
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: And I'd be like, well, if I wanted if I

543
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: wanted kids, then this is how maybe I would think

544
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: about this or that, and they and they were like, okay, interesting, well,

545
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: and then I brought up I brought up bed Wong Um,

546
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: who who I'm close with and who is um who

547
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: if who I've worked with very recently, and he and

548
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: I have this very sort of mentorment he bond that

549
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very grateful for. And I brought him up

550
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: and I was like, you know, he's had this center.

551
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: She just naturally came up in conversation and then Um

552
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: slowly sort of revealed that he was gay. Because I

553
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 1: don't think my parents really realized and then I was like,

554
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: and he has this kid who was in college now.

555
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: And then my dad was like, he was married to

556
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: a woman. I was like, no, um, you know he

557
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: got a surrogate and all this stuff. Um. And then

558
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: he was like interesting. So he I mean, he's he's

559
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: he's adjusting to it. It's not fully inconceivable to him

560
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: that this kind of thing happens in the real world.

561
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: But the if there was a moment. This also involves

562
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: my sister because I had done this interview with Maureen

563
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: Deaf for The New York Times my first season on

564
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: the cast of SNL, and she had sort of in

565
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: her way, I mean, she was just mooring down. She's great,

566
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: but she got she teased out of me these details

567
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: about the conversion there. I mean, I hadn't ever shared

568
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: that in that on that scale or in that public

569
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: way before, and it was just like in the newspaper,

570
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: was on the Sunday Times, and I was just like, whoa,

571
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: this is crazy. And my first thought was, my parents

572
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: are going to be upset in some way that they're

573
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: that um, something this personal as being aired out, and

574
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: that this is something that they're going to have to

575
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: go into work the next day and their coworkers are

576
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: gonna are going to know that this is something that

577
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 1: they did or you know or whatever. And then my

578
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: sister called me the day after that Peace came out

579
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: and she was like, that profile came out and she

580
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: was like, you know, Mom and Dad read the profile

581
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: and actually they I think they've come to some better

582
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 1: understanding of like what that time was like for you,

583
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: and that they I think I think they're moving closer

584
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 1: and closer to just like full on acceptance. And I

585
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: was like, wow, interesting. I mean, that really surprised me

586
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: that that that was their takeaway. Rather than thinking what

587
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: does this mean for me? They were thinking were so

588
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: embarrassed or you know, we're ashamed that we put our

589
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: some through that, right, you know, on so many different

590
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: levels they could have had reactions absolutely, but instead they're

591
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: they're parental thought was, oh, what is what did this

592
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: mean for our son? And I mean I just that

593
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: kind of surprised me and in a very sort of

594
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: meaningful way. Um. So I think it's it's it's been

595
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: very incremental um over the past twelve years, and probably

596
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,400
Speaker 1: like the way that it's been sort of collectively incremental

597
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: um for everybody. We're going to take a short break.

598
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 1: But when we come back, the grueling SNL audition process

599
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: and that viral Titanic sketch. I think my publicist was

600
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: very clear, I'm not here to talk about the sinking

601
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: that's right after this. What did you major in it?

602
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: N y U? I was the chemist stream major. What

603
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: I was? I was? I was. I was a b

604
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: A in chemistry and not a b S. Most of

605
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 1: I was a Bachelor in Arts and chemistry. I mean

606
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 1: that that I was. I was. So I was on

607
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: the premed track. I was thinking, you know, I got

608
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: I gotta hang up the comedy dream because I was

609
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: doing like short form improv in high school and going

610
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 1: downtown and like, you know this, this one of my

611
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: favorite teachers who I still keep in touch with sort

612
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: of was the sponsor of the improv group in high school,

613
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 1: was the assistant director at the theater downtown, and so

614
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: like he was my gateway in and UM just was

615
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: that kid, And like on college tours, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, cool,

616
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: So do you guys have an improv group here? Like

617
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: I was that that guy, UM for better or worse.

618
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: But then I go to N y U, and I

619
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 1: kind of put all my social eggs in one basket,

620
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 1: which was to get on the improv group there, because um,

621
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: you know, it was very it seemed very seamlessly integrated

622
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,279
Speaker 1: into the comedy the leaders that are here in New

623
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: York at the time that we're here in New York

624
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: at the time. And I thought, m my, U is

625
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: gonna be great because I'm gonna have all these friends

626
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: who like comedy as much as I do, who have like,

627
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: you know, watched this many episodes of The Simpsons or Seinfelder,

628
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, like just like Matt TV SNL all of that.

629
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 1: And then I did find those people. And then throughout college,

630
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: I was on this improv group with all of these

631
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 1: Tische kids, these these these arts kids who were in

632
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, studying film and TV. Yeah, yes, And I

633
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: was sort of the odd person for for not being

634
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: you know, a Tische kid. And I was like, oh,

635
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,720
Speaker 1: I'm a chemistry major. But all of them were talking

636
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 1: about going on to um, you know, do these things

637
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 1: in the industry. And I was like, I guess I'll

638
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:50,399
Speaker 1: I guess I'll go to med school. Like my senior year,

639
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: I was like, is this right? And then and then

640
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: commencement at m my U was a Yankee stadium. And

641
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 1: then I look around and all of my friends are

642
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: like so excited for the next thing, and UM, not

643
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:02,799
Speaker 1: that this is uncommon, but I was, and I was

644
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: just like, no, what is what is? What is my

645
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: life going to be? Like? I don't think I'm doing

646
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: the right thing. And then I I went in for

647
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: my m CAT the second time, UM at UM one

648
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: Pen Plaza right next to Penn Station here in New

649
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: York City, and that was where the testing center was.

650
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: And I got to the to the long to the

651
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: short answer section and then as soon as as soon

652
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 1: as the cursor blinked, I thought back on this interview

653
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: that I read Steve Correll do Or. He talked about

654
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,480
Speaker 1: going applying to law school UM when he was struggling

655
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: and he got to the he got to the personal

656
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: essay section of the law school application and he thought,

657
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: I can't do this. I can't do this. And I

658
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: and that interview just like flashed in my head. When

659
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: I was taking the MCOUNT, I was like, I can't

660
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: do this, I cannot do this, and so I avoided

661
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: my test, left the testing center, went downstairs, and just

662
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 1: like I think I cried. I think I really did

663
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,400
Speaker 1: cry because I was this is this is something that

664
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: I I can't follow through on this because I don't

665
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 1: think I'll be happy. And so then UM spent like

666
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 1: the next like seven years pounding the pavement. And so yeah,

667
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: I mean, have you ever missed Steve Carell and told

668
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: him that story. I've not told him that story. But

669
00:37:17,640 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: I met him when I was still a writer at

670
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: SNL and he hosted I think my fourth I know,

671
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,719
Speaker 1: but I mean I kept like my professional distance at

672
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: the time. I mean, if if I were to meet

673
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 1: him again, and if if it felt right, I would,

674
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: I absolutely but tell him that story and say that

675
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: it really did kind of give me this model for

676
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: like if someone else has done this like I've I'm

677
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: not alone in this experience of doubting what I should

678
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: be doing next, um and and sort of and going

679
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: for this more secure path or something like, there's this

680
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: is someone who I admire, who I love, who who

681
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: did this? But yeah, next time I see him, I'll

682
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,919
Speaker 1: tell him you should. You should? So you do this

683
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: podcast with a friend from n y U R. Matt Rodgers. Yes, look, man,

684
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,839
Speaker 1: oh I see you? Why why And look over there.

685
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: How is that culture? Yes? Goodness? Tell me about the

686
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 1: podcast and kind of how that honed your skills for comedy? Yeah,

687
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 1: I mean, um, I should say that I was doing

688
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: mostly improv in college and after after college. It was

689
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: a sketch comedy. I dabbled in stand up a little bit.

690
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:28,279
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm I consider myself a dilettant only when

691
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: it comes to stand up. But the podcast that we

692
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: started with them with Matt was just this very like one.

693
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: It just seemed like this very low sticks thing where

694
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,319
Speaker 1: we would meet once a week and it was just

695
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: an excuse for us to hang out and just sort

696
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: of chop it up and talk about what was happening

697
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: in pop culture. And then it sort of turned into

698
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: this thing where, like there was, it had its own

699
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,279
Speaker 1: sort of vocabulary and vernacular. People know what and I

700
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey? Is so basically and I don't

701
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: think so, honey, is we take sixty seconds to rail

702
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: against something in culture that we do not like, we

703
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: think should be addressed fiercely and loudly. I don't think so, honey. Magicians,

704
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: don't you ever pull ship from behind my ear without

705
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: asking me for permission? And I'm not. You know, slowly,

706
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: our our listenership started to build and now it's just

707
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 1: this really, it's this really I think healthy UM outlet

708
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: for me to just be myself, because I think it's

709
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: I mean, so often everyone in the industry sort of

710
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 1: spins out about where they're positioned, what they're doing, if

711
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: they're doing enough, and I mean for me to sort

712
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: of just share this like one moment a week with Matt,

713
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: who is on his own just like kind of doing

714
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,760
Speaker 1: his own amazing things, and he's just such a brilliant

715
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 1: writer and such a talented actor that I that I think,

716
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: oh gosh, I'm so lucky that I have this UM,

717
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: this other sort of way to sort of like develop

718
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: a sense ability and a voice and just know like

719
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 1: what I am like about just in terms of like

720
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 1: how I expressed myself, because he's someone who has like

721
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: puppy dog energy and I'm someone who was like who's

722
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: a little bit more coolly reserved and catlike, and and

723
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: I never I never would have like knowing that about

724
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 1: myself had I not had this relational e gauge to

725
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 1: UM to just sort of discover that. Yeah, and meanwhile,

726
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: you're you become a writer on SNL and what two thousand? Um,

727
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: so what was that? What was that experience? Tell me

728
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: about getting the call and you're hired? I mean, how

729
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: did you get that job? I guess. I mean the

730
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 1: SI has done this a lot in the past, where

731
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: they will hire writers out of the auditions, and I

732
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: had submitted tape in seen and thought, they're never going

733
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 1: to hire me. They're they're never going to hire this

734
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: a feminine Asian guy. Um Like. I was like, there's

735
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 1: no like, there's no lane for that there and it's

736
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: not it's not like a role that they need to

737
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 1: fill at all. So I was like, I'm just gonna

738
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: have fun with this. So I did, like I threw

739
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: a bunch of things at the wall, and I was

740
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: just like, as long as I think it's funny, I did.

741
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: Like my impressions were, you know, Mochico Cacutani and like

742
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: it's just the book reviewed at the New York Times

743
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: and like who has never been photographed and more than like,

744
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: I was just like, I don't And it was just

745
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 1: her like reviewing books and saying threatening that she was

746
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: going to punch Juno Diaz in the face or something

747
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: like just crazy stuff. I was like, this is never

748
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: going to get me in. And then somehow I cleared

749
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 1: the hurdles to do the showcase live in front of

750
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: an audience that uc B, and then did the screen

751
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: test in front of Lauren, and then got to this

752
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 1: final meeting with Lauren and then I remember it being

753
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: so late and that I was the last person he saw,

754
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: I think, and he was just like, where are you from?

755
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:49,360
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'm actually I grew up in Canada.

756
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 1: I speak a little French and he was and then

757
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: I remember he turned to the producer that was in

758
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: the room and was just like fully just kind of

759
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: sidelined to me, and it was just like, you know,

760
00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: the French have great books, don't they. And I was

761
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: just like, okay, I did not get this job. So

762
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 1: I left thinking I didn't get it. But then they

763
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,720
Speaker 1: called me back into audition again that March of eighteen,

764
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, I have another shot at this.

765
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: Let's go. Did that they said we're not doing a

766
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: mid season higher come back in August. I came back

767
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: in August auditioned another time with a new set, and

768
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 1: then I was like, either they take me or they don't.

769
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: And then and then at that time they were like,

770
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: we're not sure what to do with Bowen, but he um,

771
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 1: but here's here's this offer to hire him as a writer.

772
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: So I wrote for one season and I think had

773
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,399
Speaker 1: I not had that season two write, I wouldn't have

774
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: I would have I mean, Laurene even said this to

775
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 1: me on the call. When he called me a year

776
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: later in September to tell me that he was moving

777
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: me to the cast. He was like, he said that

778
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: it was his plan because if he was like he was,

779
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,160
Speaker 1: he was like, I knew you were going to be

780
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,360
Speaker 1: He was like, I know you're going to be scrutinized

781
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: and people are going to keep an eye on you

782
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 1: in a way that's they're going to evaluate you differently

783
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: because of who you are. And so I would have

784
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: done you with di service. If I had thrown you

785
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 1: out there like without a paddle, like if you didn't

786
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: know how this place worked on a creative level as

787
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 1: a writer, then then um, then you would have had

788
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: a harder time. And I think that and I think

789
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: he's right, Like, I that was really nice of him, Bowen,

790
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: I mean like he was he had your back. He did.

791
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: I think he did. I really think he did, and

792
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:25,240
Speaker 1: and I think he was right because by my second

793
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: by by my second week on the show as a

794
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: cast member, you know, I got something on that I

795
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,799
Speaker 1: that I had written with some of the writers. But

796
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: I knew as soon as the shows, as soon as

797
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: the piece got picked to go to the show, I

798
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 1: knew who to talk to for the costume, I knew

799
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: who to talk to you for the props, and I

800
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: just knew on a production level what to do, what

801
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: my resources were. And I wouldn't I would have had

802
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:50,399
Speaker 1: no idea. Um if I had just been plucked out

803
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: of you know, the morass and thrown in and every person,

804
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: every cast member would benefit from writing on that for

805
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: a year, I think so. I think so. And yeah,

806
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: And there are plenty of examples of people who did that,

807
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: you know, Sadakis, Leslie Jones, Um, Tina right, Tina, Yeah.

808
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: I just I just a lot of people who have

809
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 1: successfully modeled um, you know, a tenure there have gone,

810
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: have done that, done that thing. I would be remiss

811
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:25,919
Speaker 1: not to talk to you about what's going on with

812
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: so many Asian Americans and hate crimes and how horrifying

813
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,920
Speaker 1: this has been and how late as a culture we

814
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: were to recognize this. I think in many many ways,

815
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:43,879
Speaker 1: Asian hate and and these antequated attitudes towards Asian Americans.

816
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: It's it's been a revelation and it shouldn't have been.

817
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: But but before I get to sort of the larger issue,

818
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,360
Speaker 1: as someone who was the first Chinese American cast member,

819
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: as someone who was openly gay on the cast, what

820
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 1: did you know? How did that form your humor or

821
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,400
Speaker 1: your feelings about being a part of the show. Yeah, Um,

822
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: I feel like I mean, I kind of I tell

823
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 1: people that I came in at the right place at

824
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: the right time. Um. And I believe that the Terry

825
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: Sweeney in the eighties was the first I think he was.

826
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: I think he was the first gay cast member on

827
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: SNL first season and he I think was like one

828
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: of the only gay one of the first gay people

829
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:32,240
Speaker 1: on primetime television, or not prime time it's s it's SNL,

830
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: so it's technically not but but but he um was

831
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: what was one of the like the few, if not

832
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: only gave gave people on TV. And then um there's

833
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: John mill Heiser and I want to say who was

834
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 1: on the show as well. Um, But in my case,

835
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: I came in and at that point there had been

836
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: this legacy of queer writers and UM and performers too,

837
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:58,919
Speaker 1: with with with Terry and with John and with them

838
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,759
Speaker 1: uh Tnitravance, and with Kate already being so established there.

839
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: I mean, I came in at a time when it

840
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 1: was very it was not an uphill battle for me

841
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: to be like, I need to prove something about, uh,

842
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,880
Speaker 1: what you can do with this shows as a queer person.

843
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: And so I came in already having a relationship with

844
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: some of the gay writers at the show, like James

845
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: Anderson and Julio torres Um, and I just thought, wow,

846
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel some pressure. Obviously I would be

847
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: sort of dishonest if I was saying that I didn't.

848
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: But I thought, I have things I've I've sort of

849
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 1: the wind at my back in terms of like doing

850
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 1: this in a way that I think will satisfy me

851
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: creatively and hopefully make other people understand where I'm coming from.

852
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: Um with the whole thing of writing there for a season,

853
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 1: I thought, you know, at least, I mean, I mean,

854
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,680
Speaker 1: it goes back to what Lauren was saying, like he

855
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 1: would have done me a disservice by like throwing out

856
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: there just with me not knowing how anything worked. And

857
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 1: so you know, I I still am going through some

858
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: weekly things where I think about how I should present

859
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: myself as an Asian person on this TV show. But

860
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: in terms of being put out there as an Asian

861
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: person on the show and having the Asian person's viewpoint,

862
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,600
Speaker 1: I struggled with that a lot. When we um uh

863
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:33,759
Speaker 1: about a month ago after the Atlanta shootings, UM, we

864
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: would come back from a hiatus, and it was on

865
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: people's minds um both outside of the show and at

866
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 1: the show internally, where people were like, I mean, it

867
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: has to be addressed in some way, right, so what

868
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 1: do we do? And then UM, I just heard through

869
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: different people at the show that like the hope was

870
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: that I would write something for a weekend update as

871
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: myself to talk about what was happening. And I was

872
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: for just just for a little bit, just thinking I

873
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 1: don't think I want to do that, and it feels

874
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: like something I'm sort of being saddled with and I

875
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm in the place creatively to like

876
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,239
Speaker 1: make light of it. And struggled with all these things.

877
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: But then there was another. There's another right at the show.

878
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: We just hired this season Celestium, and they said to me,

879
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, if it's not going to be us, then who, like,

880
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: you know, if if we don't, if it's not you

881
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: and me writing this together, then like who's going to

882
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: talk about this on the show? And don't we feel

883
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: like wouldn't it be even weird if the show didn't

884
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: bring it up at all? And I said, yeah, I

885
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,800
Speaker 1: guess you're right, and so we wrote this piece. Across

886
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,359
Speaker 1: the country, rallies are being held to condemn the rise

887
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 1: of anti Asian hate crimes. Here to share resources on

888
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: how you can help is Asian cast member bow and

889
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: Yan all right? Is that? Um? Is that my official title?

890
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,399
Speaker 1: Asian cast member? That's how you told me to introduce you. Yeah,

891
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: I set your ass up. You know that blood with

892
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:01,720
Speaker 1: some jo be the top. It then kind of takes

893
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: this left turn into this place of kind of despair

894
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: and hopelessness that I think is honest, is authentically like

895
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 1: what a lot of Asian people are feeling in this country,

896
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 1: where they're like there's no dialogue to have with someone

897
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: if if their instinct is to like punch a grandmother

898
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: on the street, you know, so it takes a turn

899
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: into there and then we we sprinkling some jokes. But

900
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: then at the end um it gets stright into and

901
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,840
Speaker 1: that's sort of like a nice structure that Lauren I

902
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: think likes, and that that's been on the show in

903
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:30,759
Speaker 1: the past. When it comes to like, you know, a

904
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: grim story like this in Mandarin, there's a cheer that

905
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 1: goes yo, which basically means fuel up. I don't know

906
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: what's helpful to say to everyone, but that's what I

907
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: say to myself. Then afterwards, I did feel like there

908
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: was this like vulnerability hangover. It was the first time

909
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 1: I was on the show, like as myself talking um,

910
00:49:50,560 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: and I felt very vulnerable. But I felt like it

911
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: was something that I was imperfect, but like it was

912
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: something that I think, I'm I'm proud of just having

913
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: it be realized. From like the beginning of the week

914
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: when I was like, I don't know how I'm going

915
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,400
Speaker 1: to do this. I don't know how to address this

916
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 1: in a way that feels like it fits into the show,

917
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:14,760
Speaker 1: and then by the end of it feeling like okay,

918
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: you know what, like we did something, and we did

919
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 1: something that hopefully resonates or activates or motivates people in

920
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: some way, because the whole the whole piece was about

921
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: how we sort of have to, as you know, culture,

922
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: move past like the cursory acknowledgement of the problem and actually,

923
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:32,400
Speaker 1: you know, actively and do something about it, um in

924
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: whatever we we can. And I think I think people

925
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: understood that. As an Asian American man, I'm curious as

926
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 1: as you saw this unfold and I had a I

927
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:46,160
Speaker 1: had suspicions that this was going to happen when some

928
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:51,280
Speaker 1: of my friends who are in the medical community said that,

929
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: you know, there were slurs hurled at them at the

930
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 1: beginning of the pandemic. You know, I remember interviewing an

931
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: Asian American doctor and you know, um, it obviously just

932
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 1: got worse and worse and worse, and and witnessing this,

933
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: were you at all surprised? Where you appalled? How would

934
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: you describe your reaction to to the kinds of incidents

935
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: that we were seeing happened with greater frequency or at

936
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 1: least getting more and more attention. M H. I feel

937
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 1: like I was sort of awakened in a way that

938
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: a lot of not just Asian people were um and

939
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: I don't. Yeah, I mean, I don't even know that

940
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: it's that we're all late to this realization. I mean

941
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: I think I think it's I think it's coming in

942
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: on time, because I mean all of us have been

943
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: socialized under this idea that like, I mean, gosh, I

944
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 1: mean my friend Joel Kim Booster, who's another Asian comedian, said, um,

945
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 1: you know, I get mixed up with another Asian person

946
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: only once a month. You pre COVID would be like

947
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,120
Speaker 1: even more. But like, just the way that Asian people

948
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 1: are sort of like faceless in Western culture is like

949
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:11,239
Speaker 1: it just kind of it's it's it's a symptom of

950
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:14,839
Speaker 1: the same disease where it's like, you know, we're all

951
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 1: sort of dehumanized in a very quick immediate way. And

952
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,759
Speaker 1: so like all my life, I've grown up like having

953
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 1: slurs sort of casually tossed off at me about someone else, um,

954
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: when I was with an air shot, like all these

955
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: crazy things, and I and and and and what's kind

956
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: of terrible is that I was used to it, and

957
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:40,680
Speaker 1: that none of this was surprising to me until very recently,

958
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: when it felt like there was a collective rejection of

959
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: that from a lot of people, um, in the Asian

960
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:52,839
Speaker 1: American community where we all thought, wait a second here,

961
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: you know, because it's something you would become inured to

962
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: in a way. Yes, absolutely, and and isn't that like

963
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: and like it kind of fills me with a little

964
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: bit of shame to admit that, but I think that's

965
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: true of a lot of Asians in this country, and

966
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: and for and for the people who like had that,

967
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:10,319
Speaker 1: who have realized it thoroughly on who are who are

968
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve. I think wow, I mean like

969
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: truly like good for you. And I don't mean that sarcastically.

970
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: I mean like I wish I had been as developed

971
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: as that earlier on, because now I'm finally at a

972
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:25,880
Speaker 1: place where I'm like, I can say no to this

973
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 1: joke that's being written for me, Um, I can say

974
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: no to a joke that's written for someone else, but

975
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: that still sort of takes his swipe. I mean, you know,

976
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:39,120
Speaker 1: I've had to do that in multiple environments, um, just

977
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: with it among friends, professionally, you know whatever. Like now

978
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: it just feels like if I put a foot down

979
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: when it comes to that kind of thing, then that

980
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: it's more easily understood. Does that make sense totally make sense. Yeah,

981
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: Do you think it will change or you feeling that

982
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:05,680
Speaker 1: this heightened sensitivity and understanding and awareness of this kind

983
00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: of prejudice and discrimination will will help alleviate it. I

984
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: hope so, and I hope I mostly just hope that, um,

985
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,840
Speaker 1: the discourse sort of turns away from like the actual

986
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:27,520
Speaker 1: hate incidents. UM. And I think I think there's some

987
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: collective shifts right now, at least, like among among people

988
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,440
Speaker 1: I talked to, we were like, Okay, so we understand

989
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 1: where the hashtag comes from of stop Asian hate, but um,

990
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: but it should be more about protecting the well being

991
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: of Asian people, UM in the country. It's you know,

992
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: because if we're centering the aggression that's being directed towards us,

993
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: then I don't know if there's ever going to be

994
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: a counter gesture that's going to be strong enough to

995
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: like push back against that in a way that eliminates.

996
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 1: It shouldn't be about eliminating. I mean, ideally it should

997
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:05,400
Speaker 1: be about a eminating that kind of uh volatility towards

998
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: the Asian community. But I think the way to actively

999
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,279
Speaker 1: prioritize everyone's well being and for everyone to be in

1000
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: a better position is just to make sure that we're

1001
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,839
Speaker 1: all taken care of, just on like on a material level,

1002
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: emotional level, you know, all of that. So that's like,

1003
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: that's like the thing that I hope for and that

1004
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 1: I first seen maybe happening, is that we all kind

1005
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: of we we we we take it out of the

1006
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,799
Speaker 1: terms of like a hate crime. It's more about it's

1007
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,960
Speaker 1: not about like the prosecutorial way of like making sure

1008
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: people are brought to justice for whatever they do, but

1009
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: it's just about making sure that like people down, up

1010
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: and down every class in the Asian community are just

1011
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: sort of solid. I know we have to wrap it up.

1012
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: I could talk to you all day, but just a

1013
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 1: couple of things I wanted wanted to ask you about.

1014
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: Where did you come up with the crazy icebergskin? Next

1015
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: week marks the end of a story of the sinking

1016
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:03,839
Speaker 1: of the Titanic. Here to explain his side of the story,

1017
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:11,839
Speaker 1: is the Iceberg sank the Titanic. Hi, Colin Hi, it's

1018
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: for having me. This is always a really weird time

1019
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: this year for me. Thank you for being here and

1020
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,319
Speaker 1: just tell us what was going through your head that

1021
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: faithful night. Thank you for that question. Um, you know

1022
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: what Colin, that was a really long time ago. Um,

1023
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,919
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of reflecting to try and move

1024
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 1: past it. It's one very small part of me, but

1025
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 1: there's so much going on beneath the surface that you

1026
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,520
Speaker 1: can't see, right, Yeah, like an iceberg? Is that your

1027
00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 1: favorite that you've done so far? It was probably the

1028
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 1: most fun on a performance level, just being in the

1029
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,960
Speaker 1: room and just having it. Um play, but it was

1030
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: and Dresden's idea. She's one of the head writers at

1031
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,400
Speaker 1: s n L now and she texted me back in

1032
00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 1: February she said, for the April tenth show, maybe you

1033
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:00,680
Speaker 1: play the iceberg that sank the Titanic. And I was

1034
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 1: just like, what, what are you talking about? And she

1035
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, never mind, it's and we'll

1036
00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: we'll we'll get to it in April. Like she had

1037
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: this idea months in advance because she was like, it

1038
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:14,920
Speaker 1: should be somewhat timely because of the anniversary of the sinking,

1039
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 1: which is in the middle, which is in the middle

1040
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: of April. And I go, okay, maybe, and so we

1041
00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 1: let we let it rest for a couple of months,

1042
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,880
Speaker 1: and then the week of that show, I texted her

1043
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: on Monday, I was like, what do you think of

1044
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: that iceberg idea? Again? She was like I completely forgot

1045
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: about it. But then we started riffing on it. We're like, okay,

1046
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 1: he's there to promote his album. He's there, he doesn't

1047
00:57:32,320 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: want to talk about it. He's really grown. Since then, um,

1048
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: all these things, and I mean the entire time, you

1049
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:43,960
Speaker 1: have to understand Katie. The entire week, both of us

1050
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: looked at each other multiple multiple times, and we're just

1051
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:50,840
Speaker 1: like this is never going to be on TV, Like

1052
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,800
Speaker 1: how will we ever make this work? And we would

1053
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,480
Speaker 1: just cackle, like laugh hysterically to each other like what

1054
00:57:56,560 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: are we doing? This is nuts down to like Saturday

1055
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: at like six thirty pm, us just looking at each

1056
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: other being like what are we doing? This is going

1057
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: to get cut immediately, Like it's just such a big swing,

1058
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,280
Speaker 1: and like why would Lauren ever think that this would

1059
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 1: be that those should make any sense? Then we did

1060
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 1: it address rehearsal and it and it did better than

1061
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: we thought. We were like okay, and then an it

1062
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: comes to me afterwards and she's like, Lauren liked it.

1063
00:58:22,360 --> 00:58:24,360
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, I guess maybe we do it.

1064
00:58:24,720 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: And then finally the picks come out for the for

1065
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: the air show, it's in. I go, wow, I guess

1066
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: we're doing this. And then somehow the air audience was

1067
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 1: even more on board than than the dress audience was.

1068
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 1: And I was like, this was just I mean, every

1069
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: star aligned for this and I just can't I still,

1070
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 1: I still can't believe it happened. Why are you said

1071
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: you would be my Oprah? Call it that someone did

1072
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: and that and you also had that Harry Styles, Uh

1073
00:58:57,640 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: that was never going to see the light of day.

1074
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 1: And till Harry Styles, like, I don't know you completed

1075
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,280
Speaker 1: him or something bowen, he exhumed it from from the grave.

1076
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,000
Speaker 1: And I mean that was another moment where I turned

1077
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 1: to him and Cecily Strong, who was with me in

1078
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: that sketch. I co wrote it with Julio Torres. This

1079
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 1: this this wonderful comedian friend of mine who was a

1080
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: writer there for for several years. But I turned to

1081
00:59:19,760 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: both of the Cecily and Harry, and I was just like,

1082
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 1: this can't be on TV. It's I mean, but that's

1083
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:25,440
Speaker 1: when it's the most fun. Is that, like things that

1084
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:28,840
Speaker 1: you never think could could come to pass on the

1085
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: show end up happening. And then they have this weird

1086
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: life of their own afterwards. That that's the most delightful

1087
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: part of the whole job. It must make you question

1088
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 1: your judgment though, Like if you think, oh, this is

1089
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,120
Speaker 1: gonna kill and it bombs and this is the strangest

1090
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 1: thing ever and it becomes a viral sensation. I mean, yes,

1091
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:49,600
Speaker 1: the inverse happens all the time, things that you're like

1092
00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: so sure about that just no one else is on board,

1093
00:59:53,720 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: no one else is even remotely into it, and then

1094
00:59:57,600 --> 00:59:59,400
Speaker 1: it's and then it's the other way around so many

1095
00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: other times too, And that's that's sort of the best

1096
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: part of the job, is just not ever getting it

1097
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: down to an actual science, because I because even writers

1098
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 1: at SNL don't know what they're doing obviously all the time.

1099
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 1: You have done so many things. I mean, is there

1100
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 1: something that are you just going to continue to enjoy

1101
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: growing as a performer on SNL. I know you've done

1102
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,360
Speaker 1: you do stand up still even though I know you

1103
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 1: consider yourself a dilettante, but you still kind of play

1104
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: in that space a little bit. You did the aquafine

1105
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. Um, you know, if you sort of had

1106
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,800
Speaker 1: to chart out the next five or ten years. Is

1107
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,360
Speaker 1: there are there things you want to do or they're

1108
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 1: kind of moments that you want to seizes or opportunities

1109
01:00:44,440 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 1: that you see yourself doing. Would you like to do

1110
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: more films, etcetera, etcetera. Yeah, I feel very entertainment tonight

1111
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: right now. But I'm just hearing I feel like to

1112
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: get this side of Katie kerk Is is actually I

1113
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: can't believe I'm on receiving ends of this, but I, um,

1114
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. I would love to. I mean, there's

1115
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:09,959
Speaker 1: this there's this phrase that I repeat all the time

1116
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: from Tony Hale Um from VIEP and wrestling. It's fantastic. Um.

1117
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: I think someone asked him. I forget where, but someone

1118
01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 1: asked him what his best sort of career advice was,

1119
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: and he said, um, especially when it came to comedians

1120
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:27,520
Speaker 1: or comedic actors. He said, instead of investing in a career,

1121
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,240
Speaker 1: instead of thinking about in terms of investing in a career,

1122
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,760
Speaker 1: think in terms of investing in a community, because it's

1123
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 1: the people you come up with that sort of make

1124
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: it such a good experience. And I feel I think

1125
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,320
Speaker 1: I'm very lucky to I feel like I'm a part

1126
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: of a community among people who you know, I would

1127
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: do like Brooklyn bar Basement shows with you know, five

1128
01:01:48,720 --> 01:01:50,959
Speaker 1: years ago, and now they're there in movies and they're

1129
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: writing for shows and they're doing all these incredible things,

1130
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: and so I just want some I mean, I honestly

1131
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 1: want to think of some way to like build out

1132
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: this like way of developing some community around comedians and

1133
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:11,680
Speaker 1: especially queer ones, especially Asian ones, whether together separately, UM

1134
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: that just like is able to come up to come

1135
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: up together. Because I was talking to be Dwong about

1136
01:02:16,240 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 1: this and he was telling me, like, you know you

1137
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,200
Speaker 1: he's talking to me. He was like, you are probably

1138
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: the subject of a lot of these discussions where it's

1139
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:26,919
Speaker 1: like why did it takes along for an Asian person

1140
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: to be on SNL or a fully East Asian person

1141
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:32,560
Speaker 1: to be on SNL. And his theory is that, like

1142
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: there is just no inevitable process for developing people who

1143
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:43,160
Speaker 1: come out of certain programs, or there's no educational process,

1144
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: there's no um process that like takes you from one

1145
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 1: end to the other that is as obvious as it

1146
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: is um for for certain other people. And so I'm like, oh, yeah,

1147
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: like maybe there's a way to like build that um

1148
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:00,680
Speaker 1: and so I mean, I obviously want to do the fun,

1149
01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: the fun stuff like being things, but I think that's

1150
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:08,080
Speaker 1: like the that's like this sort of community, community investment

1151
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: that I think I want to like try and help with.

1152
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 1: It's just to make sure it happens more often. Well, Bowen,

1153
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 1: thank you again, and again I'm congratulations for all your success.

1154
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:23,680
Speaker 1: I'm super happy for you and and not only enjoy

1155
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 1: watching you, but really really enjoyed talking to you. So

1156
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 1: thank you for all your time. Thank you, this is

1157
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: a wonderful conversation. Thanks for facilitating it. Love me some Boigner.

1158
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: His podcast Last Culture Aristas is in the I Heart Family,

1159
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: so go check it out and I might even be

1160
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: a guest this fall. I'm very excited. And if you

1161
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 1: missed any of those SNL clips we referenced, will link

1162
01:03:49,640 --> 01:03:56,360
Speaker 1: to them in the description of this podcast. Next Question

1163
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,760
Speaker 1: with Katie Kirk is a production of My Heart Media

1164
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 1: and Katie Kurk Media. Up The executive producers Army, Katie Curic,

1165
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. Associate

1166
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: producers Derek Clements, Adrianna Fasio, and Emily Pinto. The show

1167
01:04:12,880 --> 01:04:16,560
Speaker 1: is edited and mixed by Derrick Clements. For more information

1168
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: about today's episode, or to sign up for my morning newsletter,

1169
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: wake Up Call, go to Katie currek dot com. You

1170
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,400
Speaker 1: can also find me at Katie curic, on Instagram and

1171
01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: on my social media channels. For more podcasts from I

1172
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast,

1173
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,