1 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Hi there, and welcome back to You Need Therapy. My 2 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: name is Kat and I am the host, and as always, 3 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: I'm so, so so glad that you guys are joining 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: me today. Today we put out the full new episode, 5 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: and then remember every Wednesday, we also put out a 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: Q and a episode that comes from y'all's questions. So 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: if you guys have any questions, I want to remind 8 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: you guys to email me those Catherine at You Need 9 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: Therapy podcast dot com and hopefully I can get to 10 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: yours one day on the show. Now, before we get going, 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to give a little shout out to my 12 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: friend Alex Booth. You can find him on Instagram at 13 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: booth Tunes and he is the one responsible for making 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: my intro music and I just wanted to give him 15 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,840 Speaker 1: an extra special thank you. He's awesome and hopefully, per 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: a conversation last weekend, we can have him on the 17 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: podcast pretty soon. He's really wise and has a really 18 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: good perspective on things, and so I want to bring 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: them on. So Alex, here's your what is it peer pressure? 20 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: This is me peer pressuring you through the internet, and 21 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: thank you for the music. So, y'all, this week's episode 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: is so good for so many reasons, one being that 23 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: I have one of my very best friends on She's 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: also a therapist, so it's like extra special you get 25 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: to therapists this week. Her name is Blair Falconello, and 26 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 1: this seems so weird, but I've known her for ten 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: years now, and Blair has her own private practice in Nashville, 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: and she is a marriage and family therapist. She earned 29 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: her master's degree at the University of Southern Mississippi, which 30 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: is where both of us went to undergrad and where 31 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,559 Speaker 1: we met. After she earned her master's degree, she came 32 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: and moved to Nashville, and then she worked at a 33 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: pretty well known residential treatment center around Nashville, I want 34 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: to say, for about five years. And she's worked with men, 35 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: she's worked with women. She was in charge of the 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: family program, and she also worked with adolescents, so she 37 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of is a catch all when it comes to 38 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: that stuff. She's specializes in family systems and she's so knowledgeable. 39 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: Plus she's really fun and it's a great personality, and 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: so this conversation is really exciting and fun for me 41 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: to have. I just love her so much, so I 42 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: hope you enjoy what she has to bring this week. 43 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: As always, these are starting gate conversations, so we want 44 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to educate you and bring light, and we also want 45 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: to encourage you to not only seek help if you're 46 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: being called to that, but also to start conversations outside 47 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: of this podcast with the people in your circle that 48 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: feels safe. This week, we've talked about family systems and well, 49 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: families are very hard. So if this episode feels like 50 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: too much, it's okay to take a break and come 51 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: back to it later. And also I want to reiterate 52 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: that nothing that we talk about is done in order 53 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: to blame or label people. It's all about awareness so 54 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: we can create boundaries and positive changes in our lives. 55 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: That's it. And so without wasting any more of your time, 56 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: here is my conversation with my very good friend Blair. 57 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: I'm here with Blair Falcon. Hello, Hi Blair, Hi Cat, 58 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: how are you? I'm great? How are your friend? I'm 59 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: just really good. I'm glad that you're finally here because 60 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: I've been trying to get Blair to be on the podcast. 61 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: I think since I starred, I told you people to 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: get with my people and they did it, and it's 63 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 1: just you know, I'm because we don't have I am 64 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: my people. Um okay, So I'm at Blair. In college, 65 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: she was one year below me, and we ended up 66 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: in the same major, which was child studies. And then 67 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 1: Blair went to grad school for marriage and family therapy 68 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: at Southern Mississippi, and then I went to grad school 69 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: for Human development counseling. So we have a little bit 70 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: of a different graduate training. And so Blair has a 71 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: lot more experience learning about straight up family systems, how 72 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: they function, how they work, how to work with them. 73 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: And so I wanted her to come on the show 74 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: and talk about that because I got a lot of 75 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: questions from you guys about your families and how to 76 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: talk to them and what's going on when you're doing 77 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: your work and they might not be. And so we're 78 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: gonna talk about all that today. So if anything you 79 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: want to say about yourself, what do they say when 80 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: you're like a group? Something interesting fact about One interesting 81 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: fact about me is that I hate icebreakers and fun 82 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: facts about yourself? There you go, who likes that? Though 83 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: no serial killers? I was just gonna say zero killers, 84 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: but I mean, I don't even think they would like it. 85 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: So the thing I want to begin with is we're 86 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: gonna be talking about families of origin, so we want 87 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: to define what that is so you guys can follow 88 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,720 Speaker 1: along and you're not listening to it for forty five 89 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: minutes and then at the end being like, what actually 90 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: is a family of origin? So we're gonna break that down. 91 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: So Blair and your idea, do you tell me what 92 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: you define it as and then we'll kind of just 93 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: talk about that. So a family of origin is what? 94 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: So a family of origin is the system of people 95 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: that you grew up in and with, So parental figures, siblings, 96 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be biological. So in cases where you 97 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: know someone was adopted your adoptive family, you know, and 98 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: depending on the age, if you were adopted really really young, 99 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: you know, that might be the only family of origin 100 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: that you can remember. But if you were adopted later 101 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: in life, you know, you might have two different systems 102 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: going on here. So yeah, so if you had a 103 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: grandparent that raised you, that would be part of your 104 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: family system. But in a in the instance where you 105 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 1: have your biological parents and any siblings, that is what 106 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: the family system would include. No extended family things like that. 107 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: So basically, whoever is growing up in the home with you. Yes, okay, 108 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 1: I can look a number of different ways. It doesn't 109 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: have to I think in general we think of a 110 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: family system as a mom, a dad, your brother, your 111 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 1: and your sister, and very rarely doesn't look as typical 112 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: as we imagine in our heads. And so basically blanket 113 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: statement of what a family of origin is is the 114 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: group of people that you grew up in your home. 115 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: There could be people that aren't related to you whatsoever, 116 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: and there there could be people that are. And so 117 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: when we are talking about that, I want you guys 118 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 1: to think about in my home, how I grew up 119 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: and then currently in my home, because you're creating a 120 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: new you have a family of origin, and then you're 121 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: creating essentially a new family of origin right with when 122 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: you grow up and get married. Yes, so you're you're 123 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: making a new nuclear family when you have kids. And 124 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: then for your kids, they would consider you and your 125 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: partner whatever their family wonderful. So why don't you talk 126 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 1: to us about why you even bring up a family 127 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: of origin in a session? If somebody's coming in to 128 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: do individual work, Yeah, I actually do a lot of 129 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: family of origin work with individuals. Um, what I find 130 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: is a therapist. It's more common to get an individual 131 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: seeking therapy than a family, So and I let people 132 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: know on the front end, I am a marriage family therapist. 133 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you about your family of origin 134 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 1: because this is the group of people that kind of 135 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 1: shaped you into mostly who you are. That's not where 136 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: you get everything about yourself, but it's where we get 137 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: a lot of the our beliefs and our values and 138 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: just the way that we tick. And so it's super 139 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: relevant to life. Now you know the role that you 140 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: formed in your family of origin. Some of that could 141 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: be coming out in adulthood, like being a perfectionist or 142 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: being a people pleaser. Okay, so let's talk about family roles. Blair, 143 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: you tell me what they are. I'm like, you guess 144 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: what my role was? And then if you're open, you 145 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: can talk about your role. We can use us as examples. 146 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: But tell us when you say family roles, what do 147 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: you mean? Because that means something very distinct to me. 148 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: And then what are the roles? So your family roles are. 149 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: They're often known as survival stances. So whenever there is 150 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: stress that is occurring within a family of origin or 151 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: inflicted on a family of origin. The family members will 152 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: often take on these family roles that they used to 153 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: help solve the problem. One example is like the family hero. 154 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: So this is kind of the perfectionist, the person who 155 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: solves all the problems, who tackles everything. You know, when 156 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: you think of a hero, it's the same thing as 157 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: what child you'd like, the golden child? Yes? Is it 158 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: usually the firstborn? Well, I'm a firstborn. I'm also a 159 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: family hero. So in my case, yes, yes, I could see. 160 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: I see the born would have I see that most 161 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: commonly as the family hero is the firstborn child. I'm 162 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: really big into birth orders. So so we have family hero. 163 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: What's next, We've got the play cater. So this is 164 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 1: the people pleaser. So this is the one who is 165 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: just kind of like coddling the other family members. They 166 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: don't like to cause a lot of conflict. They often, 167 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: you know, had like this false sense of guilt where 168 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: they blame themselves for you know, the problems that are occurring. 169 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: They're just kind of meeting the needs of others, but 170 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: at the expense of their own needs. So I want 171 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: to point out that these family roles, I want to 172 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: make sure that you guys understand that there are both 173 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: strengths and weaknesses to these family roles. Are not all 174 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: bad and they're definitely not all good. So then we've 175 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: got the scapegoat. So this is the person that the problems, 176 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: Like they're blamed for the problems that are occurring in 177 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: the family, but they're the scapegoat, so they're the actual 178 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: distraction from what's really going on, which is an issue 179 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: in solving the problems, that would be the issue that 180 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: they're covering up for. So they're kind of blamed for 181 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: the issues that are happening. They're kind of rebellious, you know, 182 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: just like I imagine, like this is what I just 183 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: think of in my head, even though it isn't always true. 184 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: Imagine the scapegoat being like the leathers with like purple 185 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: spiky hair and tons of tattoos. Like that's escapegoat. It 186 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: doesn't always look like that though. When it comes to addiction, 187 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: oftentimes the addict is the escapegoat. Yeah, so okay, so 188 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 1: we have hero play caater, scapegoat, and then the next 189 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,079 Speaker 1: one is the lost child. So this is the one 190 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: when you and again it's it's very fitting when you 191 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 1: think about a lost child. That kind of describes what 192 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: it actually is. It's the family member that kind of 193 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: disengages from the system when the conflict is happening. You know, 194 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: they might isolate in their room, play video games, or 195 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: they'll just leave the house completely. They just kind of 196 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,680 Speaker 1: blend into the background, don't cause a lot of commotion 197 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: or attention. Very independent. And then my favorite one, Oh 198 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: I wonder why waite for you guys? The mascot what 199 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: is the mascot Catherine Devada. They they distract from the 200 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: problems with humor. So they're very entertaining. Are you calling 201 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: me entertaining? That is so sweet? Yes, very fitting word 202 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: for you. And so they like to distract from any 203 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: conflict or tension through humor. And I do want to 204 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: point out too that you know, when you're thinking about 205 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: your own family roles, you might get caught between two 206 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: and say, I really identify with two of these and 207 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: and that's common. So um, you don't have to only 208 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 1: identify with one. Sometimes people identify with two. The family 209 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: hero in the play cater those are the two that 210 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: people often identify as. If you're going to identify with 211 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: more than one, Okay, you know what's so interesting. I 212 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: remember learning about those in undergrad and our teacher assuming 213 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,319 Speaker 1: me to be one role. What do you think she 214 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: would have assumed me to be? What do you think 215 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: people that don't who know me in a professional or 216 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: like school setting here, Yeah, she thought I was the hero. Well, 217 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: you're you are a high achiever, and that is a 218 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: family hero characteristic. I would never call myself that. In 219 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: my family, I was obviously the mascot, but also in 220 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: so many roles to play cater because as a helping person, 221 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 1: I would a lot of times. And I still get 222 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: caught in this and I've had to start being more 223 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: careful about it. But I get caught in because part 224 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: of me likes this role. I like the a cater 225 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,200 Speaker 1: because it makes me feel needed and it makes me 226 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: feel someone and wanted and important, and I don't really 227 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: like confrontation or conflicts, so it helps me mitigate like that. 228 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: But then I also have my mascot qualities, which I'm 229 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: an allowed one, the entertaining, doing making up dance routines 230 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: and songs with myn And it's pretty interesting because even 231 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: as somebody who I work with people for a living 232 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: and talk all day about their deepest darkest things. When 233 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: it comes to my stuff, A lot of times I 234 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: don't want to talk about it, or when I'm in 235 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: a conflict with a family, I don't want it to 236 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 1: like blow up, so I'll ease it in with a 237 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: joke or with a story, or I'll be sarcastic or something. 238 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: And that is helping me soothe, but it also is 239 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: helping my family soothe. And reality, you're not having to 240 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: sit in the uncomfortable illness, right, So in the reality, 241 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: it's just getting us farther from getting true health or healing. 242 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: It's like an unhealthy coping. Yeah. I mean that's and 243 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: that's where the family roles they can be dysfunctional because 244 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: what's happening with all of these roles you think about 245 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,559 Speaker 1: a family that is, you know, each member is playing 246 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: out one or two of these roles when there's conflict. 247 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: One to me and to other people that have asked 248 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: in therapy or you know, with parents I've worked with, 249 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: I say, what does that sound like? And every single 250 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: time sounds chaotic, and it is because everyone is kind 251 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: of on their own island playing out these roles. But 252 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: what's not happening is that the actual issue isn't being 253 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: discussed totally, and do you have I wonder if we 254 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: can think of an example of like how that might 255 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: play out. The freshest thing in my mind is I 256 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 1: think about addiction because I wanted in a treatment facility 257 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: for so long. So you know, you think about an 258 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:46,839 Speaker 1: addict who is they've got legal issues, they're sinking out 259 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: of the house, they've got a d u I. And 260 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: just like all of this stuff, you've got the family 261 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: hero who is calling the lawyers, you know, calling the 262 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: treatment is trying to get all of this stuff figured out. 263 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: Play cater is like checking in with everyone, trying to 264 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: keep this piece, make sure everyone else has taken care 265 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 1: of but they're not taking care of themselves in the process. 266 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: The scapegoat is the one mouthing off, you know, causing 267 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: the arguments during all of this. The lost child. No 268 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: one knows where that kid is. They escaped because they couldn't. Yes, 269 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: they just went far away from it. And then the 270 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: mascot is kind of in front of everyone waving their hands, 271 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: making the jokes. And so that's kind of how just 272 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: and that's a very general example of how that can 273 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: look in real life. What's your role I'm the family hero. 274 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: What does that look like for you? Like we're growing 275 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: up or now as an adult, they're both both. My 276 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: mother love her to death is very well, hey Pam, 277 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: hey girl, how she's totally gonna listen to and be like, 278 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: oh my god, my baby, she's staying her therapy stuff. 279 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: And I also want to make sure to say that 280 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: you know this is all very unconsciously or like unconsciously yeah, 281 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: so like people don't know that these roles are being 282 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: placed on them. It's not a malicious thing. So you know, 283 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: my parents didn't pick me you are going to be 284 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: the family hero. It's just something that kind of organically happens. Um. 285 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,199 Speaker 1: And I am a verseborn. Yeah that's These are very 286 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: common characteristics of a firstborn. But I'll give you an 287 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: example of what the family here looked like for me 288 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. So I would take a test, 289 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: maybe I made like a a on it will come 290 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: home and give it to my mom. My mom would say, 291 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: oh that's great. My dad would say that's a great, 292 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: good job. And I would say, but I didn't get 293 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: the bonus, right, oh yeah, my god. And so an adulthood, 294 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: it's you carry that like perfectionism into adult And I 295 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: talked to so many of the individuals I see about this. 296 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: They come in there like I just find myself thinking 297 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: about what I should be doing in my life right 298 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: now and what I should have like the the whole 299 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: idea of shooting on themselves. Sometimes are a lot of 300 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: the time that comes from your family of origin, in 301 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: the role that you played. It's that perfectionism thing. What 302 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 1: would getting the bonus right to on that test? How 303 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: would that have made anything better? Perfect? Okay? And what 304 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: would that it makes me feel good accomplished. It's kind 305 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: of like my self worth was tied into that. Yeah, 306 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: and so you're self worth of being perfect? But how 307 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: did that help your family function? Because I would often 308 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: like help a lot or with like talking to like 309 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 1: my brother was having a hard time, like talking to him, 310 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 1: or like task around the house, or I wonder too, 311 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: And I could be putting this on you. But when 312 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,479 Speaker 1: there's somebody who's perfect and doesn't have problems and they're dependable, 313 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: the last child house problems they just are unaware of 314 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: probably with them and nobody knows about them. But the 315 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: hero doesn't have problems because they're perfect and they fix 316 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: other people. Everybody can relax because Blair is fine. We 317 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about Blair. And also if we 318 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: need something, we can call her. And that's a lot 319 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: of pressure. But at the same time the pressure is 320 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: feels good and it feels scary. At the same time, 321 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: it feels good because I'm getting self worth knowing that 322 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: my parents think this, or my teachers think this of me, 323 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: or my peers think this of me. They always think 324 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: that I'm will use the word good and okay, so 325 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: that is helpful at the same time, where you said, 326 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: it's like these are adaptive and maladaptive. At the same time, 327 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 1: it's painful because the pressure that you feel all of 328 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: the time like a ticking time bomb, where then you 329 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: don't even show up fully as yourself because you show 330 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: up as your anxiety about being perfect. Oh yeah, I mean, 331 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: I wonder why I get overwhelmed so easily. It's because 332 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: of overwhelmed yea whole life. But you know, so for example, 333 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: you know you brought up like the test score thing. 334 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, for my parents one thing that 335 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: was really important to them, and I appreciate them for 336 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: this because you know, they paid my whole way through college, 337 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: but neither of them have a degree. They do wall 338 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: for themselves, but they you know, didn't get a college 339 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: degree because in their generation that wasn't a huge deal. 340 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: They have always said since I can remember, you know, 341 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: we want better for you guys like me and my brother. 342 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: And so for me, school was like, okay, like this 343 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: shows that I'm like really got it together, I'm really 344 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: doing good. And also fear of judgment from others was 345 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: a big one for me too. And what I hear 346 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: in that, like your parents wanting better for you is 347 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: such like a healthy kind thing, and at the same 348 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: time you take on that role as mom and dad 349 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: want better for me, so I need to do better 350 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: for them so they feel better. It's a lot of 351 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: pressure for all. So this is very I'm just going 352 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: to tie this into we don't need to really to 353 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: spend time on it, but very angiogram one, Yes, I 354 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: am a one that Blair is the one of the ones. 355 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 1: So where she would walk into a room and see 356 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: like one of the picture frames is crooked. I would 357 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: walk in the room and be like, this place looks great, 358 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: this is awesome. Like so many for activities like how 359 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: can we screw this place of even more, Yes, can 360 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: we jump on the can we make sure that it 361 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:31,960 Speaker 1: looks like a tornado came through here by the time 362 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,959 Speaker 1: I leave? Which is so funny because I've walked into 363 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: my office this morning and Crystal, who's been on the 364 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: show before, walked in right behind me. And I walked 365 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: in my office and I was like oh, and she 366 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: was like what. I was like, my office looks like 367 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: my house, Like my house does not look calming. I said, 368 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: I could never never live with you. For years, I've 369 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: made that statement, and it's trip. I will say, I 370 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: tidied up the office. It's called I actually noticed that. Okay, 371 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,360 Speaker 1: thank you. Is there a correlation between a family role 372 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: in birth order, like it's the the last child. What 373 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: I see is the youngest child is a lot of 374 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: times the mascot or the lost child, and the middle 375 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: child is I see them being a lost child most 376 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,639 Speaker 1: of the time. The youngest, the middle, the middle I 377 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: was going to say, is lost. The youngest, I would say, 378 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: is more mascot or scapegoat, and the oldest is usually 379 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,840 Speaker 1: the hero or the play cater and both yeah, both too. Yeah, okay, 380 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: is that you know I could totally see that play out. Now, 381 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: I don't have any proof to back that up, but 382 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,159 Speaker 1: just with what I know about birth order and like 383 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: the qualities that each like position has, I could totally 384 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: see how that lines up with those famorite roles. Yes, 385 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: but yeah, I do see firstborns. I just like, by chance, 386 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 1: a lot of my individual clients are first borns, and 387 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: most of the time they are like that family hero 388 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 1: or that play cater and so interesting that you see, say, 389 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: a lot of my clients are the family hero and 390 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: they're the ones that end up in my office. So 391 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there as a 392 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,120 Speaker 1: lot of times people think that, like the scapegoats are 393 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 1: always going to be the type of people that go 394 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: to therapy, But therapy is for people that look like 395 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 1: they have it all together, and therapies for people that 396 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: don't look like they have it all together. Because the 397 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 1: truth is, nobody freaking has it all together. Nobody nobody does. 398 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: Thank God. That'd be such a boring world, thank God. Okay, 399 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: so let's talk about what I want you to tell us. 400 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: What is homeostasis and how do family roles impact that. 401 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: We'll go from there. So what is homeostasis? Because I 402 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: don't know if we've said that word yet, but we will, 403 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,919 Speaker 1: so I wanted to go ahead and define it. So 404 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: homeostasis is like that feeling of normalcy within a family. 405 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: So it's just like the family just everyday normal, nothing 406 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: really happening. When conflict happens to disrupt that homeostasis, the 407 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: family will do whatever they can to bring their dynamics 408 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 1: back to that state of homeostasis and the process they 409 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: will take on those family roles and that's where the 410 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 1: dysfunction can happen. Okay, so working in treatment, we've both 411 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: worked in treatment, different treatment centers, but both in treatment. 412 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: And what I learned early on in my career is 413 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: the person that's coming to treatment is usually the healthiest. 414 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: They might not present that way to the world, but 415 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: they are the most aware. They're so aware. That's what 416 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: I love about a scapegoat. They will air their family's 417 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: dirty laundry and a heartbeat and doesn't take long. And 418 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: I appreciate that though, because it makes my job a 419 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: lot easier and we can get to things a lot 420 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 1: quicker because they're not trying to cover things up and 421 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: look like I think, like the perfect house and the 422 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,320 Speaker 1: fence and that oh my god, Yes, we're doing so great. 423 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: They're like, no, ship's fucked up. Yeah, And I want 424 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: people to see that so we can stop trying to 425 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: pretend like everything's fine. We can start living our lives. 426 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: So what I learned, of course, is that the clients 427 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: I was working with one had the best shot if 428 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 1: we could get them through some of things, the best 429 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: shot of living a full, true, authentic life easiest to 430 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: work with. In a sense, however, what would happen or 431 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: what did you see happen when clients who are the 432 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: scapegoats started to get healthy. What typically happens is the 433 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: individuals I see or like people in treating meant they 434 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: get so frustrated because they are changing. Their family is 435 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: not that could be really hard for them, and so 436 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: it's you know, you've got to set some realistic expectations, 437 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: remembering that you're the one getting yourself healthy doesn't mean 438 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: your family is gonna get healthy. And most of the 439 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: time you're getting healthy, that is disrupting that state of homeostasis. 440 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: People as a family members sometimes and I don't want 441 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: this to sound malicious, sometimes they don't realize it, but 442 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: they're not really pumped about you getting better. They subconsciously 443 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: don't want you to get better because if you get better, 444 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: then I have to and I want to move into 445 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: health with you. I have to also look at my stuff, 446 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: right However, I've never had to look at my stuff 447 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: because we got to look at yours because your stuff 448 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: was a drug addiction and my stuff was codependency. And 449 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, when we talk about addiction, I did a 450 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 1: whole episode on that, So if you haven't listened to it, 451 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: go ahead and listen to that episode. But to me, addiction, 452 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: we're all addicts, really, and somebody who is just saying 453 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: strug with substance abuse, they have a very visible view 454 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: of the same problem that your mom has, who hasn't 455 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,719 Speaker 1: have boundaries, she's still the underneath the core of it, 456 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: the problem. It's all mostly rooted in shame, and that 457 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: is all essentially the same. I have to be a 458 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,200 Speaker 1: good enough mom, so I have to coddle my child, 459 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: or I need to get my needs met, so I'm 460 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: going to make my child meet those and I'm in 461 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: a helicopter suffocate them. And so they have a very 462 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,680 Speaker 1: almost like more manipulative not on purpose, because I don't 463 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: think anybody is doing this to be bad, more manipulative, 464 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,399 Speaker 1: covert way of their presenting problem. And then the client 465 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,360 Speaker 1: that ends up in treatment has a very very over 466 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: presenting problem. And it almost is like I see as 467 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320 Speaker 1: waving a flag being like somebody out of our family, 468 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: Like I said, like ship's fucked up, like somebody help us. 469 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: So one thing that I work on with clients a 470 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,640 Speaker 1: lot is lowering expect You mentioned lowering expectations are making 471 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: them more realistic, is how I word it. But yes, 472 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: this is so what might that look like? So for 473 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: example and some and I do want to go back 474 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: to you real quick too. I love this example was 475 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: used often when I was in grad school, and I 476 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 1: think it makes this so much more easier to like comprehend. 477 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: So when you think about a family system, you think 478 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: about a mobile that's hanging over a baby bed, like 479 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: with all of the little like things that hang down. 480 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: So each family member is like a piece on that mobile. 481 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 1: If you hit one of those pieces, that person, like 482 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: in real life, you think of it as like someone 483 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: going to get help. So if you hit one of 484 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: those pieces on that mobile, what happens to the rest 485 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: of it? It starts modeling the whole thing. Moves. That's 486 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: an example of you know what that ripple of effect 487 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: looks like and why the whole system is affected when 488 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: someone goes to get help even if you're not living 489 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: with your family of origin anymore. Which I love that example, 490 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: and I want to give two examples of what that 491 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: can look like in families. So with a family that 492 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,400 Speaker 1: just struggles with addiction, trade up addiction. Well, let's say 493 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: somebody goes to treatment because they are abusing some kind 494 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,880 Speaker 1: of opiate, and you know, that's this big glaring red 495 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: light that's bad. We don't do that. So they go 496 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: to treatment and they start to work on their stuff. 497 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: And then we learn in some sessions that yeah, I 498 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: might be doing opiates all day long, but my dad 499 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: is drinking every single night to drinks too. Whiskey's on 500 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: the rock? Is that what you call it? Risk? Whiskey 501 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,360 Speaker 1: on the rock? What do you call that? On the rocks? 502 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: On the rocks? In there, there's several hopefully I don't drink, 503 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,360 Speaker 1: or mom is drinking a bottle of wine every night, 504 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,400 Speaker 1: but she's doing it after work and she always wakes 505 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: up and goes to work on time, and like, and 506 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,800 Speaker 1: Dad's like, he does it in his man cave and 507 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: he's not out causing making a full of hi stuff 508 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: and he only drinks too or whatever. But as that 509 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: stuff is coming up and like, oh, that's interesting behavior. 510 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: And then you start kind of doing some family work 511 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,679 Speaker 1: and maybe you're doing some education with the family, and 512 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: then that comes up and they're like, oh, no, we 513 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400 Speaker 1: know I don't have a problem, but my son has 514 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 1: the problem. I drink my wine because he drives me crazy, 515 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: or I drink my wine because my husband does neglects me, 516 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: or I drink my wine because I just like to 517 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: have a little fun at the end of the day 518 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: I deserve. I'm fine, And you're like, well, what would 519 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: happen if you I could stop, I could not drink tonight. 520 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:15,399 Speaker 1: I was like okay, and then what about the next night? 521 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 1: Would be fine? But I don't need to write. It's 522 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: like okay, and so what happens. And then it's like 523 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: John's therapist. It's just she's the worst. She doesn't know 524 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: what she's talking about, and I think that she's just 525 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: trying to keep him in treatment longer and she just 526 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: wants our money. And now she thinks I need to 527 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: go to therapy like this is ridiculous. I set him 528 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: to get help, and we'll start to hear that stuff 529 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: and it's like a threat, like, oh my gosh, the 530 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: family is feeling threatened because our stuff is exposed, our 531 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,760 Speaker 1: family secrets are coming there, Like, look, I sent this 532 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: person from my family to get help. You help them. 533 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: We're good over here. Yeah, you need to help them, 534 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: and I would be a lot and I'm good, and 535 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: you know what, I'd be an even better if you 536 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: could fix my child. So stop focusing on me and 537 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: focus on what I I'm asking you to do. And 538 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: that is a response of like fear, like fear and 539 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: shame mixed together into its own little cocktail, and it 540 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: comes off very off putting. And then the client, it 541 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,640 Speaker 1: gets like the identified patient which is the client treatment, 542 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: gets all up in arms of like my family won't 543 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: ever change. And then I mean, that's a whole thing. 544 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: I'm even getting like a little bit winded talking about No. 545 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there's something to be said because 546 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: if you look at this example from an addiction standpoint, 547 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 1: you can translate it into every family. So there's something 548 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 1: to be said for the belief that, like when someone 549 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: goes to treatment, if the rest of the family gets 550 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: some form of help, whether that's going now and on, 551 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: going to therapy, whatever they're they're like self like help 552 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: support looks like the chances for recovery for that client 553 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: so so much higher. And so you think about just 554 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: an everyday adult coming to therapy in a private practice 555 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,160 Speaker 1: setting whatever, same for them, Like, it would be really 556 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: cool if the rest of their family could change with them. 557 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: Very rarely that's the case because people are older and 558 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: set in their ways, and so that's you know, that's 559 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 1: why it's like it's super hard for people that are 560 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,919 Speaker 1: getting themselves healthy and the rest of their family is not, 561 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: and they don't understand these boundaries that are being said. 562 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: They don't understand this new way of behaving and thinking 563 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: and communicating. So an example of something that might happen 564 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: with someone who struggling with an eating disorder is the 565 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: client goes to treatment for an eating disorder and then 566 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: they start finding out, well, mom and dad did the 567 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: Atkins diet, and then they did the slim Fast diet, 568 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: and then they did Keto, and then they went on 569 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: weight Watchers, and then now they're counting their macros and 570 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: realize that you're finding out that the family has been 571 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: on diets for their whole entire life, no wonder your 572 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: child feels like they need to be on a diet. 573 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: There were so many messages, so many message of them 574 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: sent to them about that. Yet the mom and dad 575 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 1: don't have an eating disorder, the child does. When it's 576 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: really like, okay, well, it sounds like there's some kind 577 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: of disordered eating because you've been on diet since and 578 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: it and but it's like, no, we're fine, we're just trying, 579 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: we're being healthy, healthy, we can do this in a 580 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: healthy way. And it's like okay, all right, So the 581 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: family starts getting threatened. And if the client starts learning 582 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: about what actual normal, healthy eating is and they start 583 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,719 Speaker 1: to present that to the family, the family is going 584 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,959 Speaker 1: to reject it. It's gonna be really frustrating. And I 585 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: work so much with clients who are like, my mom 586 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: doesn't get it, my dad doesn't get it, my sister 587 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: doesn't get it, and what I try to express it 588 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: it's not really their job to get it. It's your 589 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: job to accept what their level of acceptance it's going 590 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: to be. And so you have to. It's really hard. 591 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of boundary setting that goes 592 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: into that because it's like all about like that differentiation. 593 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: Like if you can just put a little bit of 594 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: healthy distance between you and your family of origin, you're 595 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 1: not going to be as put off or just like 596 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,880 Speaker 1: completely disrupted by them not wanting to respect your boundaries 597 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: because you can learn that's about mom, that's that's not 598 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 1: about it's not me. And so I can sit in 599 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 1: my truth and know that, you know what, being on 600 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: a diet since isn't the life I want to live 601 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: and it's not what I'm defining as health. I can't 602 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 1: always convince and teach that to all my family members. 603 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: And so if I want to create relationships with them, 604 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: and this is like much deeper, because sometimes it's not 605 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: safe for you to go back into that family system. 606 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: But if there's a place where I can still have 607 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: relationships with them, I have to start lowering my expectations 608 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: and creating boundaries that could look like maybe I go 609 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: to dinner every Sunday night with my parents, and I 610 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: have to create a boundary of hey, if if we 611 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: start talking about the calories in the meal, and if 612 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: you start talking about my food and what I'm eating 613 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: and asking if I've exercised that day, I'm gonna um 614 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: not come back the next week. And that's really scary 615 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: and hard to do. But it's like I tell people 616 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: that finding recovery with eating disorders is like telling people 617 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: how to learn how to use cocaine in a healthy way, 618 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: which is not a thing that we do, which makes 619 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: this really hard. But it's like put you in a 620 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: booth with fifteen bottles of alcohol and you're an alcoholic, 621 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: and it's like, don't drink it, right. We don't need 622 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: to be doing that, right, So we need to set 623 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: some boundaries. I'm not going to sit in the booth 624 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: that has the fifteen bottles of alcohol. And for anyone 625 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: I have to say this too, because I talk about 626 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: this quite a bit. Cut off is never good unless 627 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,560 Speaker 1: there's an issue of safety or like abuse things like that, 628 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: where it's like for your own safety you have to 629 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: cut yourself off from your family or a certain family member. 630 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: You want to make sure that you don't get to 631 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: a point where you just emotionally cut people off because 632 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: they're just the type of avoidance for sure, and it 633 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: comes with a lot of package and can really negatively 634 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: impact you in the long run, So I do want 635 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: to make sure to point that out too. It's it's 636 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: all about like that happy medium and like setting those 637 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 1: boundaries in a way that works for you even if 638 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't work for them. And boundaries are I mean, 639 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: our responsibility up to uphold the boundary the one that 640 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: sets it. It's which responsibility to respect it necessarily right, 641 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: doesn't that they're going to respect it right? And so 642 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: I think that that we could do a whole We'll 643 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: have you back into a whole episode on boundaries, love 644 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: love boundaries. Yeah, but one thing, I'm glad that you 645 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: said that about cut off because it is okay to 646 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: have conflict in relationships. In your family. Healthy family has 647 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: conflict and they have a couple that comes to me 648 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: in therapy and I'm like, what does your conflict look like? 649 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: And they're like, what conflicts? I'm like, oh wait, So 650 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: that's more concerning to me than people being like we 651 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: get in a fight every day either people aren't being 652 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: authentic or somebody's holding right. So there's something that a 653 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,480 Speaker 1: therapists will call rupture and repair, which is a cycle 654 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 1: that is healthy to have in relationships. Rupture is where 655 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 1: you have some kind of conflict in repairs when you 656 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: come come back and find some healing from it, very 657 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: different than an abusive relationship, where it's almost like rupture 658 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: and then I'm going to like smooth you over and 659 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna punch you again, and then I'm gonna like 660 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 1: put a band aid on it. And that's very different. 661 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: But I do want to send the message that healthy 662 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: relationships have conflict. Healthy relationships need boundaries. So if you 663 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: don't have any boundaries in your relationship, you don't have 664 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: a healthy relationship because we all are different humans that 665 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: need different kinds of needs. And also, like I think 666 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: it's very safe to say and very necessary to say that, 667 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: Like it is always going to suck to a certain 668 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: extent when your family of origin doesn't respect or appreciate 669 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 1: your boundaries. Like, chances are you're not going to get 670 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: to a point where you're like that doesn't really affect me. 671 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: I think it's going to affect you to some extent. 672 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: It's just more of getting you to a place, you know, 673 00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: through therapy whatever, where it doesn't just completely throw you 674 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: off as much wreck you. Yes, if somebody was like 675 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 1: I don't care about anything, anybody can say anything to me, 676 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, are you a robot? You okay? And where 677 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: did you learn that skill we need to get. I 678 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: actually do want to take a second to talk about 679 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: boundaries when it comes to the topics that we're talking 680 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: about now, because you mentioned this before we started recording, 681 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: and we talked about this in the beginning, about how 682 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: you have your family of origin and then you're going 683 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: to go create your own nuclear family eventually, where like 684 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: your family of origin is not going to be a 685 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: house that you live in for the rest of your life. 686 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: That's the house you grew up in. And so as 687 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: people are growing out of that space and creating their 688 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: own new system, a lot of stuff comes up because 689 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: you're bringing in multiple systems into one and I want 690 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: to talk about what you see that happens and how 691 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: you find there to be some room for boundary work. 692 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 1: The family systems term for it is major life transitions. 693 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 1: So like a family goes through major life transitions where 694 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,880 Speaker 1: it's like marriage, having your own kid, launching that kid 695 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: into adulthood, that kid getting married, that kid having kids, 696 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. So just like the major 697 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: life events, families will often experience dysfunction when transitioning to 698 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: each stage of life just because change and like always 699 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, can throw people off or will throw people off. Um. 700 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: So with a lot of the individuals that I work with, 701 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: I see where like that that launching into adulthood and 702 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: so on after that. That is where a lot of 703 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: boundaries need to be set with their families of origin 704 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 1: in different ways depending on the person, because it's all contextual. 705 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: But for example, you know someone who is having a 706 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: kid of their own with their partner, and their parents 707 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: are trying to overstep. They want to come visit every 708 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: single Sunday. Well, me and my partner and my new baby. 709 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: Now we would like to have some family time too 710 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: as a new unit, and that person's family of origin 711 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: is just like, oh my gosh, like this is a betrayal. 712 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: We want to see our grandkid blah blah blah. That's 713 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 1: a very common example of when the boundaries need to 714 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: be set, and it can be very uncomfortable because now 715 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,799 Speaker 1: you've got a grandkid involved, and it can just be 716 00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 1: a lot of emotions and it's it's tough. Okay, let's 717 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: say I've never said a boundary before. How what does 718 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: that even sound like? Does it mean sound like? Leave 719 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: me alone, Like, what does it sound like? For sure? 720 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 1: That's like that's the main one that I told to like, 721 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: get the funk out, leave me. Can you not do 722 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,600 Speaker 1: what you're doing? She's joking. We're both joking definitely, So 723 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 1: it definitely looks different for everyone. So and sometimes you 724 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: have to word it differently based on that family meant um, 725 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 1: it's it's gonna be different. But like, for example, like 726 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, my boundary is, I will let you know 727 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: a week in advance when I would like for you 728 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: to come visit my kid. I hope that you can 729 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,640 Speaker 1: respect that. This is nothing against you. This is me 730 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: trying to have time with my partner and my kid. 731 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,399 Speaker 1: I would like if you could respect that. So it's 732 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,320 Speaker 1: kind of like just letting people know what you're willing 733 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: to do, what you're not willing to do, and doesn't 734 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: mean that they have to respect that, but you put 735 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,040 Speaker 1: it out there and it's you know, it's kind of 736 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: you like respecting yourself enough to like let someone know 737 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: what you're not comfortable with. Totally. I love looking at 738 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 1: a boundary as a way to care about yourself well 739 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,920 Speaker 1: and respect yourself well. And if you noticed in what 740 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: how you said that it was a lot of I, I, 741 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 1: I I and not my statements you need to leave 742 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,759 Speaker 1: me alone, and you you, you win you. And so 743 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: the format I give a lot of my clients to 744 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,879 Speaker 1: start building until it becomes a natural reflect for them 745 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: is I feel blank when the story I make up 746 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: or the judgment I make is what I would like 747 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,200 Speaker 1: or what I need is. And then if you cannot 748 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 1: respect that, I will blank And think about how hard 749 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: that is for someone that played the role of the 750 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 1: play catering their family. Oh my god, it's like so 751 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 1: and and I could do a whole three hour long 752 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: discussion on this too. But like it's like what you 753 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,399 Speaker 1: said earlier, like you're I do a lot of self 754 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 1: esteem work, and a lot of it relates back to 755 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: your family of origin because your self esteem affects the 756 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: way that you communicate with others. So a lot of 757 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: times there has to be a lot of work done 758 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: with self esteem and helping people communicate congruently before you 759 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: can even go in and teach them or get them 760 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,400 Speaker 1: ready to set a boundary with their family of origin. Yeah, 761 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,719 Speaker 1: so there's a lot that goes into that. And when 762 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 1: somebody sets a boundary like that format I just used. 763 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: I ask people to ask the person they're setting the 764 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: boundary with, Okay, can you tell me what you heard? 765 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 1: Because our self worth and our voice in our head 766 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: will be like, oh my god, they heard me say 767 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: that I hate them and I never want to see 768 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,359 Speaker 1: them again. And it's like, well, that's not what you said. 769 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: And that person, based on their own stuff, might hear 770 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:02,839 Speaker 1: something you didn't say, and you want to make sure 771 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: that they're hearing what you're saying. And so you guys, 772 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: again you can communicate congruently. And then the last part 773 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: of that is what I need is is when you 774 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: set consequence, because one of my favorite lines is a 775 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: boundary without a consequence is just a suggestion. Oh I 776 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 1: like that. Not good because it's like, let's say we're 777 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: living together, which again we would never do that. We're 778 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,320 Speaker 1: living together, and I just went through the root and 779 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: I am leaving my shoes, which I totally do this. 780 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 1: I leave my shoes out in the living room, and 781 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: you know, I don't fold all the blankets up at 782 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 1: the end of the night when I go to bed, 783 00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 1: and for some odd reason, decide to share a toothpaste 784 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: and I leave the cap off of it. Every single 785 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: time I use it. And Blair's like, hey, can you 786 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: please like fold the blankets when you go to bed? 787 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: And I would really appreciate it if the cap on 788 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: the toothpaste was put back on, just to keep things 789 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: clean and whatever. I'm my, gosh, sure, sure, sure, but 790 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: like or what so I have no motivation in to 791 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,759 Speaker 1: shift my behavior because it's working for me. It is 792 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: working for me to leave the cap off and not 793 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: fold the blanket because also, what do you do when 794 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: I go to bed? You fold the blanket for me, 795 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: and then you put the cap on the toothpaste, and 796 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: so there has to be a consequence, and so I 797 00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:16,960 Speaker 1: will no longer fold your blanket for you. And if 798 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: you do not, I don't think you would say this, 799 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 1: but I'm going to move out or if you do not, 800 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to keep my blankets in my room, right 801 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,080 Speaker 1: and then I will have them. And so it gives 802 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: me some motivation to shift my behavior or like just 803 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: making that behavior not work for that person anymore. So, 804 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,560 Speaker 1: like the example that I used about a family who 805 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 1: is like just really overstepping with wanting to see their 806 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,719 Speaker 1: in your grandchild, you know, so what are you gonna do? 807 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: When that family member text you outside of like the 808 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: time that you set a boundary for wanting to come 809 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,840 Speaker 1: see the kid, I'm not going to respond to that. 810 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: That's not working for you anymore because you're not getting 811 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: a response from me. And I told you that in 812 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,080 Speaker 1: my boundary that I wasn't gonna responsive. Love that. I 813 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: love that. So you're training people how to treat you. 814 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 1: So if I answer every single time you text me 815 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 1: and let you come over every single time without you 816 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: planning a week ahead, I'm gonna keep doing that because 817 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: it's working for me, and you're training me to think 818 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: that I can walk all over you. But if you 819 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 1: stop responding, your training me. Oh Blair means what she says, 820 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: and I need to if I want to see my kids. 821 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,279 Speaker 1: I've got a text her before. So the last thing 822 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,959 Speaker 1: that I would just say is that if anyone out 823 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,920 Speaker 1: there is struggling with maybe a role that you developed 824 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 1: in your family system that is coming out later in 825 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 1: your life in adulthood, or you're having trouble setting boundaries 826 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: with them, or you just need like some context to 827 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: like why you are the way that you are. I 828 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: get that a lot, and that's actually one of my 829 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,240 Speaker 1: most favorite things to do in therapy is just like context. 830 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: But all those things you can go get help as 831 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: an individual. I mean even as a family therapist. I 832 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: work with plenty of individuals where we talk a lot 833 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: about their family of origin. Not all, but it does 834 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 1: help give some context and you know, help you navigate 835 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: your relationships now in life. So you don't have to 836 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: bring your entire system to therapy. You can go get 837 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 1: help yourself and it will still be effective. Yeah. And 838 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 1: and if any of this stuff is bringing up stuff 839 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: in you, I would encourage you, like I always do. 840 00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: This is not therapy, So go and contact somebody and 841 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: and find some help. Because you also don't have to 842 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:10,080 Speaker 1: have these big, large, huge, overarching scapegoat like problems to 843 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: benefit from therapy. It can just be a space where 844 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: you go and find a deeper understanding of yourself and 845 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: your behavior so you can act in ways that makes 846 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,520 Speaker 1: sense and feel good to you. Yeah, and I'll add 847 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,120 Speaker 1: one more thing too, because I this is like something 848 00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:25,000 Speaker 1: that I'm very very big on and I didn't say 849 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,760 Speaker 1: it earlier, is that, Yeah, everyone has issues, family have issues, 850 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,040 Speaker 1: they have dysfunction. However, everyone has strength. Families have strengths 851 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,680 Speaker 1: and that's one of the first things that I will 852 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,399 Speaker 1: ask people couples, individuals, families in the first session is 853 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: what are the strengths that you have as a couple, 854 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: as a family, as an individual because they are there, 855 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,239 Speaker 1: so it's easy to get caught up in the dysfunction, 856 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,439 Speaker 1: but also realize that there are strengths that are there 857 00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 1: that can help navigate through the dysfunction too. That is 858 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,399 Speaker 1: beautiful and well said, and we're gonna end with that. Yeah, 859 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: Thankfulayer