Speaker 1: The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Hi.
Speaker 2: I'm Pia Baron Jeanie, a creative director of Ulpia, an entrepreneur,
Speaker 2: a wife, and a dog mom based in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2: This is my new podcast, Everything is the Best, where
Speaker 2: we basically ask interesting people, how did you go from
Speaker 2: zero to yach I'm always curious how to help people
Speaker 2: became successful, and I figured you would be too. Get
Speaker 2: on the Internet with me. Let's laugh, let's cry, let's overshare,
Speaker 2: and let's get inspired to live our best lives. Check
Speaker 2: out new episodes every Wednesday. It's all for you, baby,
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Love you mean it.
Speaker 3: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
Speaker 3: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
Speaker 3: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
Speaker 3: This is pretty smart. Zoe Lister Jones is an actress, writer,
Speaker 3: and director. You've seen her in Life in Pieces, Whitney,
Speaker 3: and New Girl, most notably in My Eyes. In twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: she made her directorial debut with her indie film band Aid,
Speaker 3: where she hired an all female crew. It's a first
Speaker 3: for a feature film. We talk about that experience, why
Speaker 3: she did it, and what honestly came of it. She
Speaker 3: also indulged me in a deep dive into what it's
Speaker 3: like to audition in Hollywood. She talks about her SNL audition,
Speaker 3: and she told a very funny audition horror story. We
Speaker 3: chat about the show that changed her life, her relationship
Speaker 3: with her body, and her hope for the next generation
Speaker 3: of girls. You know, I usually write a flowery intro,
Speaker 3: but Zoe's interview doesn't really require one. She's not frilly.
Speaker 3: She lives out the quintessential Brooklyn demeanor. What you see is.
Speaker 4: What you get, So Zoe.
Speaker 3: I usually start these interviews asking questions about somebody's upbringing
Speaker 3: or their life, or something like sensitive and thoughtful, but
Speaker 3: I feel like we need to start with Timothy Shalomey.
Speaker 1: Happily Happily So, I worked.
Speaker 3: In pop culture and entertainment news for eight years. I
Speaker 3: feel like I'm on the pulse. I missed the Timothy
Speaker 3: shallow May phenomenon.
Speaker 4: Can you expl like, what is it?
Speaker 1: Wow? Well, you know, I've sort of become the unofficial
Speaker 1: spokesperson for Timothy Shallmay stands everywhere, and I'm happy to
Speaker 1: continue holding that mantle. Here, I guess, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: say what I'm terrified of is like just like what
Speaker 1: Timothy Shallmay thinks of how much I talk about him
Speaker 1: in interviews, because it terrifies me. I can only imagine
Speaker 1: like what it does to him if I was even
Speaker 1: on the radar. But you know, for me, like I
Speaker 1: feel like when Called Me by Your Name came out,
Speaker 1: I had a movie, my first movie that I wrote
Speaker 1: directors at Sundance the same year that Call Me by
Speaker 1: Your Name premiered there, and I was just like really
Speaker 1: excited by my own reaction to watching a homoerotic love story.
Speaker 1: Like I was so excited that I was so turned
Speaker 1: on by it. And I think it's like such an
Speaker 1: important resonant revelation for sis straight women everywhere that actually
Speaker 1: it's like that sort of homoroticism can be really sexy,
Speaker 1: and that sexual afflidity and a man can be sexy.
Speaker 1: And I think like Timmy just came to like represent
Speaker 1: that in a way that really excited me because he
Speaker 1: is this sort of like new man, you know, Like
Speaker 1: I think that there is a new generation of men
Speaker 1: who are embodying that in a way that is just
Speaker 1: like exciting and I hope will sort of like transform
Speaker 1: the conventional notions of masculinity and what it means to
Speaker 1: be desired by a woman, Like what embodying that masculinity
Speaker 1: looks like is so much broader than the limiting context
Speaker 1: that we've been taught. And then he's also like, you know,
Speaker 1: just hot.
Speaker 3: That was like really not the answer I was expecting,
Speaker 3: And it was so nuanced and and interesting.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: I feel like a lot more makes sense to me
Speaker 3: now because I remember seeing him on a boat with
Speaker 3: like some really hot woman in her like later thirties,
Speaker 3: and I was like, he's so young, Like what is
Speaker 3: it that, like all these women are so obsessed with him?
Speaker 3: So it's kind of just hemire.
Speaker 1: Referencing a photo that I know well, which is him
Speaker 1: and Lily rose up on a boat and can she's certainly.
Speaker 4: Not in No, no, no, it's not her like a
Speaker 4: child you No, that was not her.
Speaker 1: It wasn't he was with an older woman on a boat.
Speaker 4: He was with a's a Gonzalez.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, And she's in her thirties. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: she's so hot. She defies age so like but yeah,
Speaker 1: when those when those hit the internet in quarantine. It
Speaker 1: was a real tree. Yeah, it was like a real
Speaker 1: gift for all of us. Timmy stands. Yeah, he seems
Speaker 1: to just be like sex positive cool in that he
Speaker 1: is positive about sex and and I'm excited by that,
Speaker 1: by that outlook for him.
Speaker 3: I'll segue into something else because when I found out
Speaker 3: that you grew up in New York, I was I
Speaker 3: have such envy of people that grow up in New York.
Speaker 3: Over the last two years, I've kind of explored the
Speaker 3: city more than I ever had before, and I realized
Speaker 3: that so many New Yorker's personalities hinge or are informed
Speaker 3: by growing up in New York. And so you grew
Speaker 3: up in Brooklyn. What do you think the most Brooklyn
Speaker 3: thing about you is.
Speaker 1: The most Brooklyn thing about me? Oh? God, probably is
Speaker 1: that it's just like I live in a constant state
Speaker 1: of fear, fear of all things, any and all things.
Speaker 1: It's an interesting combination the like Brooklyn kid makeup, because
Speaker 1: it's like super neurotic, sort of in survival mode, but
Speaker 1: also like street smarts. So I feel like I'm like
Speaker 1: a weird combination of constantly terrified and also like having
Speaker 1: to sort of not give a fuck in order to survive.
Speaker 3: I actually hope that that's what anytime I'm on the
Speaker 3: red cart.
Speaker 4: But I hope that's what my look conveys.
Speaker 3: Yeah, constantly terrified and also don't give a fuck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is. I think that's an important
Speaker 1: thing to do it. It would mean like you'd be
Speaker 1: holding a compact just in case to like check on things,
Speaker 1: but also you like throw the compact of the photographers.
Speaker 4: That sounds about right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When I was researching, I loved this story that you
Speaker 3: told about your mom studying Kabbalah.
Speaker 4: So my mom made me take.
Speaker 3: A Kabala class with her because she said I needed
Speaker 3: to understand men better.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: It was horrible but also simultaneously sort of interesting. But
Speaker 3: your mom did this like way before Madonna, and she
Speaker 3: gave you a name because of this.
Speaker 1: Yes, she named me dirt Pan when I was born
Speaker 1: for the first ten days of my life, because I
Speaker 1: guess according to the Kabbala, you're supposed to name your
Speaker 1: kids some thing shitty so that like the angel of
Speaker 1: Death passes over you know them. And she came up
Speaker 1: with like dirt Pan, which isn't even a thing. It's like,
Speaker 1: it's not even there's a dust pan, a pan to
Speaker 1: collect dirt. She was like, what's worse than a dust pan?
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, I don't know. It might
Speaker 1: be something that I take on later in life, just
Speaker 1: the sort of rebirth dirt pan, Lister Jones. It's got
Speaker 1: a ring to it.
Speaker 4: Did she tell you?
Speaker 3: I mean, because you obviously don't remember that the first
Speaker 3: ten days of your life, like she told you this later. Yeah, yep,
Speaker 3: which is also interesting that she needed you to know
Speaker 3: about dirt pan.
Speaker 1: She did need me to know about dirt pan. I
Speaker 1: don't remember the first time that she told that story,
Speaker 1: but there are so many of those stories that have
Speaker 1: come up in my in my childhood. I think in
Speaker 1: a good way, but makes me stronger, builds character.
Speaker 3: Well, it was cool to learn that both of your
Speaker 3: parents are artists. In other interviews, you said they were
Speaker 3: never able to make a living with their art. I
Speaker 3: was curious if they ever tried to steer you away
Speaker 3: from acting.
Speaker 1: Interestingly, they didn't, and I'm so grateful that they didn't.
Speaker 1: They were so supportive really of any creative pursuit, of
Speaker 1: any pursuit in general, creative or not, but definitely of
Speaker 1: creative pursuits, and I studied dance when I was little,
Speaker 1: and I was like interested in sort of dipping my
Speaker 1: toe into lots of different mediums, and they were just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: go for it. My mom put me in acting classes
Speaker 1: when I was younger because I was so shy, and
Speaker 1: she had taken acting classes because she's a video artist
Speaker 1: and she had taken acting classes to learn how to
Speaker 1: direct actors and she had taken them at this place
Speaker 1: called HB Studios in New York, and she found them
Speaker 1: really transformative, just like as a person. So yeah, she
Speaker 1: put me in them, but I was I was always
Speaker 1: like one foot out the door in terms of the
Speaker 1: acting thing. Like I was like there was something about
Speaker 1: it that I was really drawn to, and then I
Speaker 1: think I was also I couldn't tell if it was lame.
Speaker 1: I still can't.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, do you I still feel that way?
Speaker 1: Like when I got a scholarship to go to tish
Speaker 1: at n Yu, just the acting school there, and I
Speaker 1: was really torn about going, like I just didn't know
Speaker 1: if I wanted to put all my eggs into that basket.
Speaker 1: I really loved writing, and I think I also felt
Speaker 1: nervous about like how limiting that path was and how
Speaker 1: difficult it was. And I think because I had seen
Speaker 1: my parents struggle so much as artists themselves, I didn't
Speaker 1: have any like unrealistic fantasies. My image of my future
Speaker 1: was bleak as an actor.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like you saw the Ramen noodles, But.
Speaker 1: My mom was really the one to be like, no,
Speaker 1: go take that scholarship and go pursue it.
Speaker 3: When you think about now, after you've had so much success,
Speaker 3: like what does it mean to you to be able
Speaker 3: to live out their dreams? Because I feel like there's
Speaker 3: so much sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Involved totally, it's so meaningful to me that I'm able
Speaker 1: to in some ways like that they have some sort
Speaker 1: of vicarious thrill, and I think they both do, and
Speaker 1: their support has only like grown, you know, as I've
Speaker 1: grown in my life and career. And it's super cool
Speaker 1: to be able to make a living from art, Like
Speaker 1: that's just a crazy thing that I never take for granted.
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, it's nice for them to see
Speaker 1: me do that.
Speaker 3: When I read one of Gloria Steinem's books a few
Speaker 3: years ago, she talks about how her mom never got
Speaker 3: to be a writer, and she really wanted to be,
Speaker 3: and there was kind of some guilt there that she
Speaker 3: got to do it.
Speaker 4: Do you feel any of that.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, I mean that's another characteristic I forgot to
Speaker 1: mention about the most Brooklyn thing about me. It's also guilt.
Speaker 1: That's like Jews and Catholics share that, but the Jewish
Speaker 1: Brooklyn night in me is just consistently guilty about everything.
Speaker 1: So I do feel guilt about that. I would love
Speaker 1: for both of my parents to be able to make
Speaker 1: their work in a way that you know, it's like
Speaker 1: it's not in a vacuum. Like both my parents have
Speaker 1: had careers where like my mom is in the permanent
Speaker 1: collection of MoMA and the Pompadou Center in Paris, and
Speaker 1: so it's not like they've been making their work in
Speaker 1: a vacuum. My dad, you know, had a really amazing
Speaker 1: career as well. But I think when you aren't able
Speaker 1: to make a living from your art, you then have
Speaker 1: to take other jobs, and those jobs take away from
Speaker 1: so much of your creative energy that I think that's
Speaker 1: what I think is the most sort of tragic part
Speaker 1: of that narrative. And also, you know, if you're rejected enough,
Speaker 1: it's really difficult to maintain a sense of self worth
Speaker 1: as an artist, and I struggle without myself because like,
Speaker 1: even though I am able to make a living, I'm
Speaker 1: still constantly facing rejection. So I would love I was
Speaker 1: just talking to my friend. I would love to like
Speaker 1: get a gallery to do a retrospective of both of
Speaker 1: my parents' work, because both of them were so ahead
Speaker 1: of their time, and I would love to like have
Speaker 1: a hand in like getting their work out into the
Speaker 1: public in a new way at this moment in both
Speaker 1: of their lives.
Speaker 4: Be really cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe an NFT version exactly. I'm glad you brought
Speaker 3: up auditioning because I'm fascinated by it, Like, I hope
Speaker 3: you can get into the.
Speaker 4: Weeds with me a little bit.
Speaker 3: No one's ever been, like I've never talked to any
Speaker 3: truly successful actor about.
Speaker 4: What it was like auditioning. It seems horrendous to me.
Speaker 3: I can't even imagine you walk into a room with
Speaker 3: fifty people, fifty women who look like you, which is
Speaker 3: weird in itself, right, You're like, they all have my
Speaker 3: same color hair, and my same eyes and sort of
Speaker 3: the same nose. Yeah, do you become friends with them?
Speaker 3: Like you guys see each other one after another.
Speaker 1: You know, like back in the day when I started
Speaker 1: in my like twenties in New York, it was such
Speaker 1: a crew. Many of my dearest friends girlfriends are girls
Speaker 1: that we were just like stuck in waiting rooms forever
Speaker 1: for so many years together. And yeah, it's like a
Speaker 1: real I guess in not taking things personally because it's like, well,
Speaker 1: like every every person has has something different to offer,
Speaker 1: even if you know she's a brunette with blue eyes
Speaker 1: or whatever, and that when a friend would get something,
Speaker 1: it was really that that moment of being like I
Speaker 1: could feel upset or I could celebrate that person's success
Speaker 1: and he kind of had to just get to the
Speaker 1: place of celebrating, you know, other people's successes because it
Speaker 1: isn't about about you, you know, which is really still
Speaker 1: a difficult thing to really take in. But like testing
Speaker 1: what you do when you when you're auditioning for a
Speaker 1: TV show, once you get down, you know, way down
Speaker 1: the line in that casting process, there was something that
Speaker 1: people still do test. But back in the day, you
Speaker 1: would test by like I lived in New York, they
Speaker 1: would fly me out to LA I'd be in this
Speaker 1: room and the stakes are really high because you've already
Speaker 1: signed your contract, so you know how much money is
Speaker 1: on the line. You know how many seasons are on
Speaker 1: the line. Like it feels so you're so close, you know,
Speaker 1: you can like smell all the success.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you get to that point you're seeing you're
Speaker 3: seeing some yesses.
Speaker 1: Right, so you've made it so far that you're seeing that.
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm so close. There's like it's just like
Speaker 1: me and three other girls now, you know, as opposed
Speaker 1: to out however many, you know, hundreds of girls that
Speaker 1: they've seen for this part, and that I remember just
Speaker 1: being brutal because what you used to do. There's a
Speaker 1: studio and a network that own a television show, and
Speaker 1: so you'd go in front of the studio and used
Speaker 1: to do this live. You'd basically walk into a room
Speaker 1: with like twenty five suits and have to do you know,
Speaker 1: your audition in front of them. And after studio you'd
Speaker 1: have to go to network if you made it past studio.
Speaker 1: But you and all the other girls, some of you
Speaker 1: get cut after studio, so you'd have to sit with
Speaker 1: them as they got cut and then be like bye
Speaker 1: as they like cried, and you stayed. It was a
Speaker 1: fucking nightmare. Oh god. There was one one girl who's
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who then turned out to be
Speaker 1: so successful and like it's like nominated for Emmys all
Speaker 1: the time. But we were both flown out from New
Speaker 1: York for a role we both went in because I
Speaker 1: had the rental car. I was driving us both back
Speaker 1: to our hotel, and she got the call that she
Speaker 1: didn't get it in the car and I hadn't gotten it.
Speaker 1: So then the car ride was just like brutal awkward,
Speaker 1: brutally awkward. She's fine. Now she's more successful than me,
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 4: But that whole experience, because here's the thing.
Speaker 3: I mean, I respect actors for a lot of reasons,
Speaker 3: but one of the reasons is that you are so
Speaker 3: vulnerable and so yourself. Even though you're playing another person,
Speaker 3: you have to like draw up all these very human feelings.
Speaker 4: And so it's very difficult to not take that personally.
Speaker 1: So difficult. It's so difficult, you know, I would say, well,
Speaker 1: all of it is difficult. It's like as a writer too,
Speaker 1: like you're like pouring, you know, I like pour my heart,
Speaker 1: Like every script is like a baby, like one of
Speaker 1: my babies and then I you know, if it gets rejected,
Speaker 1: someone's like, well I just don't want to make it,
Speaker 1: like a producer or a studio or whoever, it's like
Speaker 1: it's even more gutting. I think across across the industry,
Speaker 1: no matter what what part it's, it's gutting at every turn.
Speaker 1: But it is. Yeah, I think, like, I think that
Speaker 1: level of rejection and having not take it personally is
Speaker 1: is what sort of I think led me to making
Speaker 1: my own work pretty early on in my career because
Speaker 1: it allowed for me to, I guess, bypass the gatekeepers
Speaker 1: in that way.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I interviewed Taren Manning years ago and she said she
Speaker 3: felt like she made it when she's like a script
Speaker 3: came through for an audition and on the top of
Speaker 3: it it said Taryn Manning type and it like it's amazing, amazing,
Speaker 3: and she like she auditioned.
Speaker 1: Also, why didn't they just offer it to her right now?
Speaker 4: Do you think there's a Zoe Lister Jones type.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine told me that he puts a
Speaker 1: Zoe Lister Jones type into his pilot, which was which
Speaker 1: was the first time I had heard of it. That's cool.
Speaker 1: Is there a Zoelser Jones type. I suppose. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think in the world of television and there is
Speaker 1: which is just like, uh, you know, dry witted bitch.
Speaker 4: I don't think bitch. I'll be honest.
Speaker 1: I bitch is a term of endearment. Yeah, you know, would.
Speaker 4: You say those are the parts you were getting called
Speaker 4: in for?
Speaker 1: Early on, when I first started acting professionally, I called
Speaker 1: what I did crying for cash because I was crying
Speaker 1: so much. I was playing so many different victims because
Speaker 1: I have such like too much access to tears as
Speaker 1: a person, So I was like anytime it was like
Speaker 1: you gotta you know, your brother's dead or whatever, I
Speaker 1: would just be like, I'm there, let's go, and I
Speaker 1: just fucking water works it up and get the part.
Speaker 1: And also at that time, like, you know, it's such
Speaker 1: a rite of passage as a New York actor to
Speaker 1: do the law and order, And I was on so
Speaker 1: many Law and Orders which required a lot of crying
Speaker 1: because I was generally I was once I was a
Speaker 1: murderer's wife in one episode, and then I was a
Speaker 1: victim's sister in another. There I'm trying to think what
Speaker 1: my fourth was I good for Anyway, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of prime.
Speaker 3: Do you have an audition in your mind that like
Speaker 3: it was really memorable that went wrong.
Speaker 1: That's a good question. Oh well, yeah, there was one.
Speaker 1: It didn't go wrong, but the lead up was my
Speaker 1: true healthscape. Like I was testing for a sitcom, and
Speaker 1: you know, in a test, it's like always, but in
Speaker 1: a test, especially because you're sort of presenting yourself in
Speaker 1: this really high stake situation to like the brass at
Speaker 1: the network and shit, you know, you really have to
Speaker 1: like do it up, not just in terms of performance,
Speaker 1: but like what you're wearing. You know. I would always
Speaker 1: get my fucking hair done. Like I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: want to look camera ready, as we say. And I
Speaker 1: got in my car, I was like, I had to
Speaker 1: drive across town. I was in LA I was had
Speaker 1: to drive to the west side, so it's about forty
Speaker 1: five minute drive, and like like thirty five minutes, I
Speaker 1: realized that I had forgotten my high heels and I
Speaker 1: was wearing like my like driving shoes which were like
Speaker 1: really bunk loafers, like they were not they were not
Speaker 1: camera ready, and I freaked out. I called everyone I
Speaker 1: knew it. I like tried to stop at Zara. I
Speaker 1: was like, but nothing was open yet. Because it was
Speaker 1: so early and I was too far, I would have
Speaker 1: missed the you know, the test if I would have
Speaker 1: gone home. And I called my agent and I was like,
Speaker 1: you got to get me heels, Like I can't show
Speaker 1: up like this. This sounds so superficial.
Speaker 3: No, it matters when you're doing this stuff. And also
Speaker 3: you don't feel good going in if you have.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's something about like me wearing heels that also
Speaker 1: was like going to give me that sort of like
Speaker 1: powerful stance that I felt that I needed too. I
Speaker 1: think now I would have handled this very differently and
Speaker 1: been like, yeah, I forgot my fucking heels, so you know,
Speaker 1: we can all just like deal with that. But at
Speaker 1: the time I was just so nervous and and so
Speaker 1: I went I got to the audition, I like went
Speaker 1: in and I was just like, there's nothing I can do.
Speaker 1: And I was in the middle of the test. This
Speaker 1: was on camera. This is like they've switched since the
Speaker 1: olden days of having to go into like a room
Speaker 1: full of like you know, twenty five people to now
Speaker 1: you're just like in front of a camera and there
Speaker 1: they're live streaming it. So I was in front of
Speaker 1: a camera, but in the middle of the test, there's
Speaker 1: like a knock on the door, and the producer was like,
Speaker 1: what is happening and my agent's assistant like cracks the door,
Speaker 1: was like, I have them, I have them, and she
Speaker 1: like had like heels like hanging through the fucking crack
Speaker 1: of the door, and I was like, get out, you know,
Speaker 1: Like I was just like, I'm in the middle of
Speaker 1: doing Oh my god. I ended up getting the part
Speaker 1: you did that was good. I did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was not expecting that didn't really go that wrong.
Speaker 3: Then it sort of worked. It worked out.
Speaker 1: It didn't go wrong. I mean, the producer was like,
Speaker 1: why is this woman shoving shoes through the crack of
Speaker 1: this door? But no, it was a funny story, you know,
Speaker 1: in retrospect to tell once I got the fig out.
Speaker 4: The part, it is really funny.
Speaker 3: And I another funny one that I was listening to
Speaker 3: in one of your interviews was your SNL one.
Speaker 1: Yes, not great, terrible, No one should ever see that tape.
Speaker 3: Well, no, I heard you said that it was good.
Speaker 3: It was just that Fred Armison later recognized you.
Speaker 1: Right, No, it wasn't good. It was terrible. Fred Armison,
Speaker 1: who acted in this movie that I wrote, a director
Speaker 1: called band Aid, told me that he found a note
Speaker 1: in his iPhone from like two thousand. I don't know
Speaker 1: when I did that, like seven or something, that just
Speaker 1: said Zoe Lister Jones with no explanation. So when we
Speaker 1: were trying to figure out why, he was like, maybe
Speaker 1: it was because I watched your tape and I wrote
Speaker 1: your name down, because Lauren Michaels would like have him
Speaker 1: watch tape sometimes. But I just there can't be that
Speaker 1: can't be why because he would have never written down
Speaker 1: the name of the person that recorded the tape that
Speaker 1: I recorded. It's it was an abomination.
Speaker 3: But kind of cool that you were in his phone
Speaker 3: unknowingly I was on his phone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were memorable in some way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in some way, even if it was like steer clear.
Speaker 4: I have a weird question for you.
Speaker 3: So your Twitter bio says fifty percent Canadian, one hundred
Speaker 3: percent real.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And part of the reason I love my job is
Speaker 3: like I really love the research part. So I watched
Speaker 3: every interview you've ever done. Oh and in every single one,
Speaker 3: because I watch interviews all the time to study and
Speaker 3: practice in every single one.
Speaker 4: You are so yourself.
Speaker 3: You are the same person in every interview, and I
Speaker 3: can't tell you how rare that is. Really, it was
Speaker 3: so cool to see. And when you're an actor, so
Speaker 3: much of your focus is on yourself. It's your headshots
Speaker 3: and your comp car. I mean definitely now for you
Speaker 3: it's probably a little bit different, but at the beginning,
Speaker 3: so much of your focus has to be on yourself.
Speaker 4: How did you not get weird?
Speaker 1: Weird? But in a good way? You know that that's
Speaker 1: really that's really nice me to say that I am
Speaker 1: myself and all these interviews I fully black out on
Speaker 1: late I like totally black out because it's nerve wracking.
Speaker 1: I can't you know, how did I not get weird?
Speaker 1: I mean, thankfully, And no shade to child actors, but
Speaker 1: like I think, thankfully I didn't start that early like
Speaker 1: my mom. I think, like I remember like bringing me
Speaker 1: to an audition for like something like Bleak, like a
Speaker 1: Gus Fan film or something when I was like sixteen,
Speaker 1: And thankfully I didn't get it. And I do you know,
Speaker 1: I am really glad that I, you know, went to
Speaker 1: college and didn't just kind of jump in. I guess
Speaker 1: I think probably my parents is like how I just
Speaker 1: have never like drank the kool aid too much because
Speaker 1: I think it is dangerous too. I'll say, one other
Speaker 1: person who I really credit with giving me a little
Speaker 1: bit of the fucket that I think was necessary for
Speaker 1: me to get through this life so far is Julie White,
Speaker 1: who is a Tony Award winning actress who I did
Speaker 1: my first play with out of college that got me
Speaker 1: my equity card and then I ended up pointing a
Speaker 1: Broadway and she won the Tony for that play. But
Speaker 1: it was we shared a dressing room. I just remember,
Speaker 1: like she was so brilliant, she was so razor sharp.
Speaker 1: She was everything I dreamed of being and aspired to
Speaker 1: be as a performer, and her process was so like
Speaker 1: fuck it. Leading leading up to those performances, you know,
Speaker 1: we would just like read tabloid magazines and like listen
Speaker 1: to Christina Aguilera and then she just go on and
Speaker 1: slay and I was like, this is amazing, you know,
Speaker 1: because she wasn't like and you know, respect to like
Speaker 1: method actors, but but there was something amazing about seeing
Speaker 1: like someone just be like, yeah, this is my job
Speaker 1: and I love it. But like I think I've always
Speaker 1: sort of like been a little like eye roll towards
Speaker 1: like how seriously I think you can take the craft
Speaker 1: seriously and really like the passion of it seriously. And
Speaker 1: I you know, I think acting is really a lifeline
Speaker 1: for me because it is is one of the few
Speaker 1: plays in my life where I like sort of submit
Speaker 1: to a higher power of sorts, where I'm able to
Speaker 1: like really let go of control. But yeah, I see
Speaker 1: was really an inspiration in that, Like it was like,
Speaker 1: don't take it all too seriously or else you will
Speaker 1: get weird.
Speaker 3: The auditioning process and like the self belief leading up
Speaker 3: to that feels like you had to submit control as well,
Speaker 3: because there's just it's out of your hands, right, which
Speaker 3: is the worst part for ambitious people to try and
Speaker 3: go down a path like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, auditioning has never gotten easier, and I'm still having
Speaker 1: to put myself on tape, you know, all the time
Speaker 1: for things, and it's still a really frustrating process. There's
Speaker 1: just no way around it that. I don't think the
Speaker 1: hurt ever diminishes no matter where you are, you know,
Speaker 1: like in your career, because it is so out of
Speaker 1: your control. But I try to see everyone as like
Speaker 1: an opportunity to learn something new about myself or challenge
Speaker 1: myself as a performer, or you know, I get to
Speaker 1: like be performing Aeronofski's like you know, you know for
Speaker 1: for Aeronofski, or you know, any any number of like
Speaker 1: cool auteurs that like it's just like, well, that's cool
Speaker 1: even if I don't get the role.
Speaker 4: But is there a role that really taught you about yourself?
Speaker 1: A Talking about myself, I would say probably, Well, the
Speaker 1: first movie that I made as a co writer coep
Speaker 1: actor was called Breaking Upwards, and it was like loosely
Speaker 1: based on an open relationship that my partner and I
Speaker 1: had been in in real life. So that was definitely
Speaker 1: like about excavating in a way where like art was
Speaker 1: meeting life and vice versa. But I think every role
Speaker 1: is that to a certain extent. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: especially the roles that I write for myself, like and
Speaker 1: banded to their such personal stories, even though I'm like
Speaker 1: calling for my imagination as well. That yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you have to sort of learn about yourself in those things,
Speaker 1: and that's part of the fun of it.
Speaker 3: On another podcast, you said you were told you had
Speaker 3: a short shelf life at one point.
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's right by David Mammott, and I will call
Speaker 1: his ass out because that's a fucked up thing to
Speaker 1: say to a young woman.
Speaker 4: It really is. I'll tell you.
Speaker 3: Somebody said to me when I was like twenty that
Speaker 3: I was going to I was going to hit my
Speaker 3: prime and peak at twenty eight, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I giggled, but it stayed in my head. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 3: for sure, it's really messed up. And we don't do
Speaker 3: that to men ever never.
Speaker 1: So oh they're like a fine wine. They become more
Speaker 1: expensive with age. Truly.
Speaker 4: Did it stay in the back of your head for sure?
Speaker 4: I felt like I'm.
Speaker 1: Still talking about it. Yeah, Like, well, first of all,
Speaker 1: it made me really question my decision to get a
Speaker 1: college education. I mean that was like my freshman year
Speaker 1: and I was in his acting school at NYU and
Speaker 1: he was telling me like basically, why are you here,
Speaker 1: which maybe was like a backhanded compliment, but it was like, wait,
Speaker 1: I thought I was here to like learn my craft.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like when you're on a data and
Speaker 3: a guy says, why are you single? Oh my god,
Speaker 3: I know, sort of flattering, sort of insulting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, it definitely stayed with me, and I think
Speaker 1: that the fear for all women is like, is that fear?
Speaker 1: I think, even without having a David Mammott say it
Speaker 1: to a person, we're sort of being fed that construct
Speaker 1: in one way or another from such a young age,
Speaker 1: that our youth is our value, you know, and that
Speaker 1: at a certain point we become invisible, which sadly is
Speaker 1: still like a real reality. And I see so many
Speaker 1: of my women friends who are actors, you know, being
Speaker 1: like wanting to shadow directors and wanting to get into
Speaker 1: writing and all of that stuff, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think it is fueled by this, even if it's sort
Speaker 1: of unconscious, this fear of like when's my time up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is so such bullshit, you know it.
Speaker 3: Is because it's a double standard, fully, yeah, yeah, totally
Speaker 3: as you're auditioning and even now, what's your relationship with
Speaker 3: your body?
Speaker 1: Like my relationship my body is very complicated, I would say,
Speaker 1: like so many women, I have, you know, body dysmorphia,
Speaker 1: and I've had a really complicated relationship to food my
Speaker 1: entire life. I think because of this just insane drive
Speaker 1: to be thin, which of course then going into my
Speaker 1: industry is only like you know, solidified in a really
Speaker 1: shitty way. I've never had and I'm thankful for this
Speaker 1: because I know a lot of women who have. I've
Speaker 1: never had anyone say like you need to lose weight,
Speaker 1: you know, for a role or anything. But I've always
Speaker 1: been really thin, you know. Not that they should say
Speaker 1: that to someone who's nothing, but it's like I've sort
Speaker 1: of been my own harshest critic in that way of
Speaker 1: like you're going to have to lose if you want
Speaker 1: to be on camera, and and.
Speaker 3: Like you have to stay this weight in order to
Speaker 3: get this role in your head, probably yea.
Speaker 1: And it's not even role specific, it's more just like
Speaker 1: my sense of self worth, you know, of just like
Speaker 1: and I was talking, you know, like I mean, the
Speaker 1: Trump presidency was a mind fuck for so many reasons,
Speaker 1: but I think rating women in a way that that
Speaker 1: I then had many conversations like some with like male
Speaker 1: family members of mine who were raiding women at a
Speaker 1: dinner table with my grandmother, president, with my mom, with
Speaker 1: you know, so many women in our family, and they're
Speaker 1: just like doing it as though it's not just like
Speaker 1: a deeply painful thing for us to bear witness too,
Speaker 1: and I spoke up and said, like, hey, so when
Speaker 1: you do that, it sort of just like confirms that
Speaker 1: our only value is in our physical appearance and in
Speaker 1: our desirability to men. And it's not that, like, you know,
Speaker 1: non hetero women also don't face these things, but at least,
Speaker 1: you know, in that sort of patriarchal construct. It really
Speaker 1: is like so much of our self worth is really
Speaker 1: based in that paradigm. That's just so debilitating. And I
Speaker 1: know so few women who are not completely fucked up
Speaker 1: by it. So even women, yeah, like and even women
Speaker 1: where I'm like you seem like like any unicorn of
Speaker 1: a woman, where I'm like, you seem to have like
Speaker 1: a like healthy relationship with yourself image, I'll then learn
Speaker 1: something where they completely don't. You know, it's really tragic.
Speaker 1: And I was talking to a young friend of mine
Speaker 1: who's eighteen, and we were with another friend of ours
Speaker 1: who's who's my age, and she was talking about doing
Speaker 1: this you know, diet where she's counting calories and da
Speaker 1: da da. I think you should not be talking about
Speaker 1: this right now because I'm just so protective over this
Speaker 1: new generation like that there could be some hope you know,
Speaker 1: because I think there is so much more body positivity now,
Speaker 1: and I think companies are working towards you know that,
Speaker 1: and representation is obviously so important in terms of the
Speaker 1: images we're consuming and seeing and going, oh, that's that's
Speaker 1: a beautiful body too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you. The hope is there. It
Speaker 3: feels like there's a shift. It needs to be more,
Speaker 3: but it feels like it's there.
Speaker 1: It does. But of course this eighteen year old my
Speaker 1: friend was like, well, she doesn't have body issues. And
Speaker 1: then this eighteen year old is like, yeah, I've been
Speaker 1: counting calories since I was like twelve, you know, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think it is. It is on us as well,
Speaker 1: like as women, to also try to shift that. I
Speaker 1: just said to this eighteen year old, like, please, like
Speaker 1: go to a hypnotist, like do something like stop it
Speaker 1: in its tracks now, because it is the biggest waste
Speaker 1: of your fucking energy, and you will spend all of
Speaker 1: your energy on this bullshit that could be put towards
Speaker 1: so many other really meaningful things in your.
Speaker 4: Life and things that will actually make you happier.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Oh it's such a punishing cycle, you know
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: I want to cut to Whitney in twenty eleven because
Speaker 3: that's when I first saw you and so cool. You
Speaker 3: were a supporting character, and each week I would tune
Speaker 3: in for you, like to me, you stole the show.
Speaker 3: All the punchlines, all the wit to me came from you.
Speaker 3: And I actually think as the show progressed, the writers
Speaker 3: and like that, whoever the director was must have seen
Speaker 3: it because your character grew.
Speaker 1: Also, yeah they did. They started to write for me more,
Speaker 1: which was really nice.
Speaker 4: But that was such an ode to I think what
Speaker 4: you brought to it.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: When you went into the audition room, Whitney said why
Speaker 4: aren't you famous?
Speaker 1: Yet? Yes, not too similar to the date asking why
Speaker 1: are you single?
Speaker 4: Like also sort of insulting, sort of a confident.
Speaker 1: You know. I think like it's the equivalent of it
Speaker 1: if that date asked you why are you single? And
Speaker 1: then like put a ring on it, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like Whitney did. She said whyren't you famous?
Speaker 1: And then she gave me a job that really did
Speaker 1: launch my career in in a way that was it
Speaker 1: just it changed the course of my life. So I'm
Speaker 1: forever grateful to her. But yes, she did ask me
Speaker 1: why and I did not why I wasn't and I
Speaker 1: didn't have an answer. But at that point in my life,
Speaker 1: I had been auditioning and testing for so many pilots
Speaker 1: and I just was not getting any and it got
Speaker 1: It was getting to a point where I was like,
Speaker 1: what is going on? Like because all of these casting
Speaker 1: directors and even directors would just be like, you're amazing,
Speaker 1: you know, not to pat myself in the back, but
Speaker 1: I was getting really good feedback, and so I was like, so,
Speaker 1: where's the disconnect that I'm not actually getting the job?
Speaker 1: And it does just take one person? And that was Whitney, and.
Speaker 3: You felt like after that it was easier to gain traction.
Speaker 1: Absolutely it opened the door. And then I really, since
Speaker 1: Whitney haven't stopped working in television. So I've been really
Speaker 1: fortunate in that way.
Speaker 3: You've said a lot of things that resonated with me
Speaker 3: in your other interviews, but this was by far my favorite.
Speaker 3: You said you were always very aware of how women
Speaker 3: are portrayed on screen, and the general lens through which
Speaker 3: you view the world is pretty focused on gender inequity.
Speaker 4: Same.
Speaker 3: I don't know where it came from or why, but
Speaker 3: it's always been like since I was little, the lens
Speaker 3: through which I see things, so the way I watch movies,
Speaker 3: the way I see women on screen in life, in meetings.
Speaker 3: So you did something about it. You said, there were
Speaker 3: a lot of talk about numbers that weren't changing, and
Speaker 3: you were in a position to do something. So you
Speaker 3: wrote and directed a movie titled band Aid, and you
Speaker 3: put an all female crew together, which was the first
Speaker 3: for a feature film, which is very cool.
Speaker 1: That I know of. That I know of, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: I know of too.
Speaker 3: Do you think that being on the other side of
Speaker 3: the camera makes you look at younger you differently now
Speaker 3: that you're doing other things besides acting.
Speaker 1: Gosh, my gut says no, because like, younger me was
Speaker 1: really intrepid in a way that I actually look back
Speaker 1: at younger men. I'm like, where did that come from?
Speaker 1: You know? Before graduating NYU, I wrote a one woman
Speaker 1: show for myself to star in, and I got like
Speaker 1: five grand like from like friends and family and rented
Speaker 1: a theater and put it on. And that's how I
Speaker 1: got my first like agent and manager. And there's like
Speaker 1: I think I've always had like a real hustler spirit
Speaker 1: in that way of like some hutzpa, real hutzpa. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I mean I do think that after that, I
Speaker 1: then didn't you know, it took me a while to
Speaker 1: direct something, and I didn't have that hutzpa to do
Speaker 1: that right away. So I guess that's the younger part
Speaker 1: of me that I'm sort of interested in, Like, why
Speaker 1: didn't you just go be like, Okay, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: make a movie now? You know?
Speaker 4: Has there been something about success that surprised you?
Speaker 1: I don't identify as successful.
Speaker 4: I think that's such an interesting answer in itself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I am grateful for the success that
Speaker 1: I have, for sure, but I think at any level
Speaker 1: in one's career, there's always like so many more milestones
Speaker 1: to hit. I guess maybe that's it. It's like that
Speaker 1: the things that I've dreamed of accomplishing, it's like, once
Speaker 1: you accomplish them, it's very quick. You very quickly go okay,
Speaker 1: But I haven't accomplished this other thing. I think the
Speaker 1: hardest thing is to celebrate my successes.
Speaker 3: What do you think the biggest sacrifice is that you've
Speaker 3: made along the way.
Speaker 1: I think like having fun. I have fun, but I
Speaker 1: definitely am addicted to work, and I definitely believe that
Speaker 1: my value is based on how productive I am, so
Speaker 1: I think I have sort of sacrificed some life things,
Speaker 1: and that's I think Quarantine has been a big lesson
Speaker 1: in that in terms of what I want to shift
Speaker 1: moving forward. Is like a sense of play that is
Speaker 1: outside of work, because I'm fortunate enough to have a
Speaker 1: sense of play in my work, you know. But then
Speaker 1: but then I come home and I'm tired, or then
Speaker 1: I'm not working and I'm anxious, and it's like, how
Speaker 1: do I bring that sense of play into my non
Speaker 1: working life?
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it. I feel very similarly.
Speaker 3: I think when you get a lot of joy out
Speaker 3: of your work, it's hard to force yourself to do
Speaker 3: it outside of work too.
Speaker 1: Totally. Yeah, what's one.
Speaker 3: Thing you've learned from the younger generation of women and
Speaker 3: one thing you've learned from the older generation of women?
Speaker 1: Ooh, I like this question. Well, I guess the younger
Speaker 1: generation of women I think they are embodying like sex positivity,
Speaker 1: body positivity, and intersectionality in a way that I think
Speaker 1: is something for us all to learn from. And the
Speaker 1: older generation of women, I mean I've learned, I've learned
Speaker 1: everything from my mom, you know, who's like an og feminist,
Speaker 1: and that is why I look at the world through
Speaker 1: the lens, especially the world of media through the lens
Speaker 1: that I do. I guess, yeah, I learned from the
Speaker 1: older generation not to take shit. I guess you know,
Speaker 1: like there's something Yeah, they just they had to walk through,
Speaker 1: you know, such hell to get to where they got to.
Speaker 1: That then paved the way for us. And then you know,
Speaker 1: we're learning from the fourth wave feminists about our limitations
Speaker 1: as feminists. So, I mean, I think it's really exciting
Speaker 1: the way the baton is being passed.
Speaker 3: It's cool to watch and it's cool to have a
Speaker 3: little perspective because when I was younger, I don't think
Speaker 3: I had.
Speaker 4: That as much.
Speaker 1: Oh fully, Yeah, is there.
Speaker 3: Something about Hollywood or your job that bewilders you or
Speaker 3: still bewilders you everything.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what bewilders me. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: in the world of television, like as a creator, I've
Speaker 1: pitched so many things in my career haven't gone and
Speaker 1: I think all of them are great, just like and
Speaker 1: it's bewildering, you know, where you're just like, well, why
Speaker 1: why not? This?
Speaker 4: Is that? Why you started your production company, well.
Speaker 1: The production company, I mean, yes, but I think there
Speaker 1: is a I mean, I'm trying to push for this
Speaker 1: in as many ways as I can, and I wish
Speaker 1: there was a world for independent television making because our
Speaker 1: production company.
Speaker 4: Is a great idea, is.
Speaker 1: Great at like independent filmmaking. But even if you have
Speaker 1: a production company, you still have to get through the
Speaker 1: gatekeepers of the studios and networks.
Speaker 4: And and they're channel that's so cool.
Speaker 1: I know, or like or like I mean festivals they
Speaker 1: are now showing like independent pilots, but it's rare that
Speaker 1: they go anywhere. And I was just like talking to
Speaker 1: a friend who's a producer and saying, like, it would
Speaker 1: be so cool if, like we could just go shoot
Speaker 1: a series a season of television independently and then sell
Speaker 1: it there. And there hasn't really been a model for that.
Speaker 4: I think you need to create that really great idea.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Is there a book that you think everyone should read
Speaker 3: or a book that changed your life?
Speaker 1: I read a book many years ago that then I
Speaker 1: reread recently called Open to Desire Mark Epstein. It's like
Speaker 1: an interesting meditation on Buddhism. Did you read this book? No?
Speaker 3: But I'm going to get it. It sounds kind of
Speaker 3: like what I need right now.
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting exploration of like how we deal
Speaker 1: with our desires and that like the part of desire
Speaker 1: is that it's the place in between wanting and getting,
Speaker 1: and that there's a complete submission in desire that you
Speaker 1: have to be open to because so many of us
Speaker 1: in our desire want to control the outcome. We want
Speaker 1: to get it, but a lot of it means that
Speaker 1: we don't get it, and you still have to be
Speaker 1: cool with the desire, you know, and to like relish
Speaker 1: in the desire, in the act of desiring, because that's
Speaker 1: so important. But letting go of the clinging to the
Speaker 1: outcome is like the hardest part.
Speaker 3: Kind of a profound New Age rom com.
Speaker 1: Well, I wrote something sort of based on it, so yeah,
Speaker 1: that was it's inspired my work. And then probably like
Speaker 1: ton Heasy coachs Between the World and Me, I think
Speaker 1: is like something that everyone needs to read, especially you
Speaker 1: know now for obvious reasons. But yeah, he's just got
Speaker 1: such a brilliant mind and is such an amazing educator,
Speaker 1: you know, in a very poetic.
Speaker 3: Way and delivers information really digestively. Totally so when I
Speaker 3: asked you the question about your body and your relationship
Speaker 3: to it. The reason I named the podcast pretty Smart
Speaker 3: is because I read a book called Beauty Sick that
Speaker 3: changed my life, and the author talks about how we
Speaker 3: value pretty among anything else in American women. And I
Speaker 3: thought about the prettiest women I knew, and they were pretty, funny,
Speaker 3: pretty strong, pretty kind, like all these other types of pretty.
Speaker 3: And if you ask any other person, specifically guys, who
Speaker 3: the prettiest woman in their life is, no one says
Speaker 3: like Instagram models, so and so. They all say, like
Speaker 3: my mom my, sister, like people that are truly pretty.
Speaker 3: So I came up with a card deck, and I
Speaker 3: always ask one random question. Okay, what is a piece
Speaker 3: of pop culture, a movie, TV show, or album that
Speaker 3: made you feel like you belonged?
Speaker 1: There are so many in terms of pop culture. I mean,
Speaker 1: Liz Fair's Exile in Guyville was an album that I
Speaker 1: listened to too young. I didn't understand what she was
Speaker 1: talking about. It was like really sexually provocative, but I understood,
Speaker 1: like I liked that there was room for like anger
Speaker 1: in a woman's work, and that it could be funny
Speaker 1: and it could be sort of irreverent and self referential,
Speaker 1: and I think, yeah, that was like a seminal album
Speaker 1: for me in that way, and sexy, like she could
Speaker 1: be all of those things. I remember watching Reality Bites
Speaker 1: and it really it's a little corny, you know, to admit,
Speaker 1: but like I then ended up shaving my head. I
Speaker 1: was young. I was like eleven. I think I shaved
Speaker 1: my head for many reasons that I think as an
Speaker 1: adult now in retrospect, I understand some of the things
Speaker 1: that I was going through emotionally as well. But Reality Bites,
Speaker 1: like Wanona in Reality Bites, she didn't even have that
Speaker 1: that short hair. She had sort of a mullet as
Speaker 1: if I remember, but she was like doing something. There
Speaker 1: was something about the sort of counterculture of those nineties
Speaker 1: kids that I was like, yes, I want in I identify.
Speaker 3: Last question, what is the smartest decision you've ever made?
Speaker 1: To hire all women on band aid as my crew?
Speaker 1: It really was. It was like, you know, I think
Speaker 1: there was a selfishly I was looking to also like
Speaker 1: create an environment in which I could seed as a
Speaker 1: first time director, and I had just witnessed I had
Speaker 1: witnessed a lot of the double standards that really come
Speaker 1: out just in microaggressions with women behind the camera. Directors
Speaker 1: in particular, just sort of a heavier line of questioning
Speaker 1: of their decision making. And I didn't want to put
Speaker 1: myself in that position. And I also just wanted to
Speaker 1: see what it feel like, you know, in this sort
Speaker 1: of utopia that I could create, And it exceeded all
Speaker 1: of my expectations and it did set me up to succeed,
Speaker 1: and I think, you know, I was able to make
Speaker 1: the film that I wanted to because of the women
Speaker 1: that were holding me up and lending their own incredible,
Speaker 1: you know, singular visions to the project.
Speaker 4: So you made real change. It was really cool.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks, yeah.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for your time. I really loved
Speaker 4: getting to know you more.
Speaker 1: Oh, it was so great to talk to you. Thank
Speaker 1: you for all of your amazing questions.
Speaker 3: That's really sweet of you. All Right, today is a
Speaker 3: good day. To have a good day.
Speaker 4: I'll see you next week.
Speaker 3: H