1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,479 Speaker 1: The Michael Berry Show. Let's take a break from politics 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: for just a moment. Showy, you fat dads out there, 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: you know who, You are, not morbidly obese. You just 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: have a Jim Gaffigan, Will Ferrell pudgy dad bod And 5 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: you're a bit embarrassed about it, and you keep thinking 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,920 Speaker 1: you're going to do something about it, and you make 7 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: jokes about it, but deep down you've kind of settled 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: into that stage of life where you don't want to 9 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: add another pound, but you're not really committed to doing 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: anything serious about it. Oh, you may talk about it. 11 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: The guy in the office, it's just lost thirty pounds, 12 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 1: you'll ask him in the hallway so attentively, so what 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: did you do? What did you eat? But deep down 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: you're not going to do anything about it. We all 15 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: know it. What if What if science said that you're 16 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: actually likely to live longer than that guy who's in 17 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: better shape, and if women found you to be sexier? 18 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: Hard to believe? No, Well, for every wacky theory out there, 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: there's a professor willing to put pen to paper in 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: his name and good reputation behind it. And his name 21 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: is Richard bribiescas He is a professor of anthropology at Yale, 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: and he is our guest professor. First of all, did 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: you start with the hypothesis and then work toward the 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: conclusion or did it come around the opposite way, because 25 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: I'm guessing you thought, you know, what, if I can 26 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: make pudgy dads happy, I could probably get rich off 27 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: the concept. 28 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: Well, it's all about the science. And what's interesting is 29 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: the idea actually came about when I was doing research 30 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 2: on male ag and so what's interesting is that, you know, 31 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: everybody's interested in aging, and everybody gets old. It's just 32 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: an inevitable part of life. And you know, I wouldn't 33 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 2: you know, I'm not going to lie to you. It's 34 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: a lot of the most some of the motivation has been, 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 2: you know, my own journey through aging and and being 36 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 2: you know a little bit frustrated sometimes and going to 37 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 2: the gym and realizing that you know, it takes twice 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 2: the effort to get you know, half the results. But 39 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: in my research on aging, I started noticing some similarities 40 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: between how men's bodies change, you know, in terms of 41 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: putting on a little bit of fat and actually having 42 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 2: lower testosteral levels, and how men's bodies change when they 43 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: become fathers. There's a lot of compelling research for my 44 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: colleagues to show that when you become a father, when 45 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: you're younger, you put on a little bit of weight, 46 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: your testosteral levels decline. And we really don't know why, 47 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: but it seems too The idea seems to be that 48 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 2: it makes you a little bit more conducive to sticking 49 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: around at home, being with your kids and not being 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 2: in the mating gage, so to speak. And so when 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 2: I was looking at changes in men as they get older, 52 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:10,079 Speaker 2: I started seeing these really interesting similarities. So, for example, 53 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: as you get older, you put on a little bit 54 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: of wait, no matter how much time you put into 55 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: the gym, and your testational level start to decline. And 56 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 2: what's interesting about humans is older men are still able 57 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: to reproduce in many cultures. So I just kind of 58 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: put these two things together and started to realize that, well, 59 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 2: how are these older men attracting reproductive age women? You know, 60 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 2: these are women who were, you know, in their twenties, 61 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: thirties and forties, and so the thought is, if they 62 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: can't attract women with muscular bods, then perhaps they're trying 63 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: to market themselves as being good dads. So that's where 64 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 2: it sort of where the idea came from. 65 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: But you're not saying that they're marketing themselves as good 66 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: dads in their pitch. You're saying that there their DNA, 67 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: their anthropology who we are as animals, is creating a 68 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: different scent, if you will, as to how they'll attract women. 69 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: That the body is trying to find new ways. Hey 70 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm wealthy, Hey I'm powerful, Hey I'm witty, because I'm 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: not the young adonnas. 72 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: Anymore, exactly exactly, And there's there's a lot of again 73 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: a lot of research that sort of supports that. So 74 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 2: for example, in the hunter gather population that I studied 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: in the past, it's really important and really central and 76 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: actually important for attracting wives in terms of how how 77 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: good of a hunter you are. And there was actually 78 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 2: a lot of a strong relationship between how much meat 79 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 2: you actually brought back to the household and your ability 80 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 2: to attract wives. And but what's interesting is that unlike 81 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 2: other primates, other great apes like chimpanzees and whatnot, they're 82 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 2: are the ability sort of your ability to get resources 83 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: is tied to how strong you are. But in humans 84 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: in this hunter gathered population, your peak in terms of 85 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: how good of a hunter you are is completely different 86 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: from when you're at your peak physical condition. So your 87 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,480 Speaker 2: peak physical condition is when you're mid twenties. You have 88 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: a lot of muscle, you're fast, you're vigorous, you know, 89 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 2: the life is good. But your peak, at your peak 90 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: ability in bringing back meat doesn't peak until you're your 91 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: mid forties. And so what that suggests is that in humans, 92 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 2: in human males, what they're doing is there's been a 93 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 2: shift from an emphasis on broad and strength to basically 94 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: perhaps using your wits, your experience, and you don't necessarily 95 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 2: have to be the biggest, strongest guy in the group 96 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: in order to attract mates. 97 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: But Professor Richard Bruviescus is our guest. The book is 98 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 1: called How Men Age, But you're suggesting that this happened 99 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: post cave man and that this is a post industrial, 100 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: you know, modern society where you know, you're more likely 101 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: to be a consultant than a hunter gatherer. 102 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So that's why, you know, what's what's been 103 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: circulating around on the web lately, It hasn't been it's 104 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 2: not exactly accurate. So you know, it's not. You know, 105 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: the message isn't it's okay to be overweight. And I'm 106 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 2: glad you gave that little preamble at the beginning the 107 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: part of the book that that links survivorship with fat. 108 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 2: It has to do with, you know, in lean society, 109 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: societies that are more concerned with going hungry than they 110 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: are with having too much to eat. In those populations, 111 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 2: having a little bit of fat is good for you 112 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: because it gets you through the lean times, It gets 113 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 2: you through times when there's not a lot of food, 114 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:57,160 Speaker 2: and also helps you with things like fighting off infections. 115 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: So yeah, so if we're looking at you know, modern 116 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: day people living in cities, you know, in Houston or 117 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 2: here in Connecticut, you know, we tend to see physiological 118 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 2: changes that maybe leftovers from our evolutionary past, but they 119 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: still happen. That they still happen, and it's just something 120 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: that's considering. It gives us a little another way of 121 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,119 Speaker 2: understanding what happens to our bodies when we age. 122 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: When we talk about changes from the hunter gatherer to 123 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: the modern economy and all that goes with that, how 124 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: much are we talking about the human body having changed 125 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: from the from the Caveman era, where we were a 126 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: hunter gatherer, to the modern era where very few people 127 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: relatively speaking, at least relative apropos those times, very few 128 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: people are actually engaged in physical activity. Professor, I'm going 129 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: to ask you to hold for just a moment. I'm 130 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: gonna ask that question coming up. The subject of the 131 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: book How Men Age is one that I spend a 132 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: lot of time with my buddies. As we drink beer 133 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: in Bourbon and eat burgers, we talk about how we 134 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: can be thinner, and so I thought this would be perfect. 135 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 2: The Michael Berry Shaw just listen to. 136 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: Call Michael Berry's Shoes. Ramon Roeblitz is back from his 137 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: extended vacation and is curating your music for the evening. 138 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: The book is called How Men Age? What Evolution reveals 139 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: about male health and mortality. And we thought, you know, 140 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: maybe a momentary break from politics. See if we can't 141 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: get this professor of anthropology at Yale, Richard Bribiescuez as 142 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: our guest, and we were fortunate to do so. And 143 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: so we're talking dad bods? Is it actually better to 144 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: have a dad bod? In twenty sixteen, Professor, let's talk 145 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: about where we ended up, you know, regardless of one's 146 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: faith or not, and whether we want to use the 147 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: term evolution in the traditional scientific sense or changes in 148 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: one's body. There's no doubt we've grown taller as a 149 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: species over the years, for instance. But as we look 150 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: at those changes, and we look at metabolic changes, because 151 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: we're not out hunting and gathering, how much change is 152 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: there in the human body. Since you're an anthropologist by 153 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: training from two thousand years. 154 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: Ago, oh well, one of the things that's really unique 155 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: about humans is our ability to be adaptive to our environment. 156 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 2: We live in numerous environments. We live everywhere from the 157 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 2: Arctic all the way to the jungles to deserts. We 158 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 2: live off of various foods. We're really really malleable and 159 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 2: can adapt to a number of different things, and that's 160 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: one of the things that actually makes us really different 161 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 2: and unique compared to other primates and other animals. So 162 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: within the last two thousand years, I think what we've 163 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: shown is that humans have been able to now actually 164 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: say farther back, I mean, I would say two hundred 165 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: thousand years, you know, sort of degree of magnitude earlier 166 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: that we have been able to sort of adapt to 167 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 2: various environments, and I think in terms of how much 168 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 2: we've changed over that span of time, I would argue 169 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 2: that we haven't really changed that much. You know. So 170 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 2: for example, when we look at some of the topics 171 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 2: that we cover in my book in terms of aging, 172 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 2: lifespan in humans probably hasn't changed very much over the 173 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 2: last few thousand years. And it's interesting because, you know, 174 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: the idea is that, you know, back in the battle days, 175 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 2: when we didn't have you know, ambulances and hospitals and 176 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 2: nine to one one and things, that lifespan was shorter. 177 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: But it's true that people would die for more hazards 178 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 2: in the environment, predators and whatnot. But when we look 179 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: at the the record, so if you look at the 180 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: archaeological record and we can actually determine roughly sort of 181 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 2: ages of age of death and what have you, it 182 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 2: seems like lifespan hasn't really changed that much. It's pretty common, 183 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 2: especially in contemporary modern hunter gatherers societies, still feel around 184 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: to live well into your fifties, sixties, seventies, and even eighties. 185 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: When I was, you know, I would teach a course 186 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 2: here at Yale, and I would take students out to 187 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 2: local colonial cemeteries, and we would do the demographic studies 188 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: as part of their homework, and I would have them 189 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: look at, you know, age of death, and so they 190 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 2: would calculate how old these people were when they died. 191 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 2: And again this is going back since you know, here 192 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 2: in Connecticut we have very old graveyards. These are people 193 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 2: who lived back in the sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen hundreds, 194 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: and it wasn't uncommon for people to live into their seventies, eighties, 195 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 2: and nineties. So in terms of aging, we haven't really 196 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 2: changed that much in the past few thousand years. And 197 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: when you look at things like differences in longevity and 198 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 2: let's say differences in longevity between men and women, what 199 00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: we see is that across the world presently, no matter 200 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 2: what society look at, men have shorter lifespans than women. 201 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 2: And so what that shows is that there's a there's 202 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 2: a very deep biologic, sort of evolutionary route to that. 203 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: And what's interesting is that you can even look at 204 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 2: male female differences in lifespan and see those same differences 205 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: in many other organisms. So there seems to be that 206 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 2: there are a lot more similarities between ourselves and our 207 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 2: ancestors than there are differences. We haven't changed all that much. 208 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: What has changed our environments? Our environments have changed dramatically 209 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: and a lot faster than our own physiology has. 210 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Professor Richard Briviescuez is our guest. The book is called 211 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: How Men Age. We tend to be, particularly as Americans 212 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, concerned with weight gain. And it seems 213 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 1: like every medical study says, you know, lose weight. It's 214 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 1: better for your back and your knees and you'll live longer. 215 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 1: But you seem to be arguing to the contrary, for instance, 216 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: that a slight weight gain actually strengthens the immune system. Please, 217 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: for my sake, make the argument that putting on a 218 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: few pounds is not so bad for us. 219 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 2: Well, I'm sorry to tell you that, you know, the 220 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 2: perspective that I'm offering certainly doesn't say that it's okay 221 00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 2: to put on weight. As we well know, you turn 222 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 2: on the news, you can look at magazines and whatnot, 223 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 2: and in fact, having too much food is our problem. 224 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: You know, Obesity and being overweight is is a you know, 225 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: part of the pun but a huge problem of epidemic proportions. 226 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 2: So when I start talking about how putting on some 227 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 2: fat and how adipuacity that is the cells that actually 228 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: create fat are not necessarily bad. I'm really talking about 229 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 2: those societies and those cultures in which not having enough 230 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 2: food is the primary problem. So, for example, the populations 231 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: that I study in South America, these are hunter gatherer 232 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: populations who are very active. You know, I like to, 233 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: you know, to sort of sort of tongue in cheek, 234 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,440 Speaker 2: stay to my students at these Unlike myself, you know, 235 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 2: as a professor, you know, I spend all my time 236 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 2: wiggling my fingers, you know, typing on a computer. That's 237 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: about all the exercise that I usually get. Whereas the 238 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,680 Speaker 2: groups that I work with in South America, you know, 239 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 2: they are literally running and exerting themselves all day just 240 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 2: to feed themselves in their family. And so for them, 241 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 2: having enough food is the problem, and that seems to 242 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 2: have been the more common condition throughout human history and 243 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: human evolution. It's only been recently that having too much 244 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: food has become a problem. So when I talk about 245 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: how putting on a little lecture weight in the electra 246 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: fat is something that's not necessarily bad, I'm really talking 247 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: about in those societies where having enough food is a problem. 248 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: And the other thing that's important to note is that 249 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: you know, within some of the stories that have come 250 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: out over the past couple of days, it's not necessarily 251 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 2: fat due to how much you eat. The fat that 252 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 2: I'm talking about is sort of the fat that is 253 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 2: built on a man's body just through the natural process 254 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: of aging. Not necessarily saying that it's okay to eat 255 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: that extra slice of pizza or eat those extra dozen donuts. 256 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 2: That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that 257 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 2: through the natural course of aging, that little bit of 258 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 2: fat that you tend to accumulate, which is really hard 259 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 2: to get rid of, that men can actually it'll change 260 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 2: and actually perhaps help out men deploy a different strategy, 261 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 2: like we alluded to earlier, from directly competing with younger 262 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: men to being a little bit more paternal. So going 263 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 2: back to the issue of you know, I'm sorry to 264 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,920 Speaker 2: say that the message is and so much it's okay 265 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: to gain weight, The message is that a lot of 266 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 2: the tissue, the tissue that we have in our body 267 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 2: involved for a reason. It's not just there to make 268 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 2: us sick. 269 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: It was stored food, right, Yeah. 270 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 2: It's there to store calories and to store food, and 271 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 2: so in those societies where food is in short supply. Yeah, 272 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: it is a good thing to put on a little 273 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 2: bit of that. 274 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: I'll take that as great news. We'll continue our conversation 275 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: with Professor Richard Bribesquez, a professor of anthropology at Yale University. 276 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 1: The book is called How Men Age, and I must 277 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: confess I am fascinated by the subject, particularly that somehow 278 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: we're healthier. I'm making that thesis that we're healthier by 279 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: being a little chubby, coming. 280 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 3: Up the information that I get from the Show that 281 00:17:58,200 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 3: I don't seem to get from other places. 282 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 2: And Michael Show. 283 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: The book is called How Men Age? What Evolution Reveals 284 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: about Male health and Mortality. The author is a professor 285 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: of anthropology at Yale University named Richard Bribiescaz Professor. One 286 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: of the things. In reading a review of the book, 287 00:18:25,119 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: the reviewer at The Guardian said, a study has shown 288 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:33,719 Speaker 1: that men with slow metabolisms are about fifty percent less 289 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: likely to die in any given year than their skinnier counterparts. 290 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if you cite that study, I don't 291 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 1: know if you subscribe to it, but how would you 292 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: react to that. 293 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 2: I'm sorry to say that that that's not entirely accurate. 294 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: It's not actually, it wasn't even my study. It's a 295 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 2: study that I cite in my book. And the way 296 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 2: the study, the context of the study is that they 297 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: were interested is to whether or not taking testosterone supplements, 298 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 2: because taking testosterone supplementation has become very popular and a 299 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 2: lot of men are taking testosterone in injection form, in 300 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: jail form, what have you. And so the question, the 301 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 2: open question, is whether or not there are any detrimental 302 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: or harmful side effects. And so in this one particular study, 303 00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 2: what was found was that in older men over the 304 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 2: age of sixty, I believe they looked at men who 305 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 2: had a history of heart disease in those who didn't, 306 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 2: and what they found was that in those men who 307 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:48,040 Speaker 2: were taking testosterone testosterone supplements, that there was a much 308 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 2: higher prevalence of acute heart problems such as heart attacks, 309 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 2: and it was more prevalent in men who had previous 310 00:19:57,240 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 2: heart conditions. So I'm not sure where the Guardian and 311 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 2: got that, because but that's that's the gist of of 312 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 2: that study. And so drawing on that, the way I 313 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 2: discussed it in my book. Is is the question as 314 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: to why you know? The question of you know, is 315 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 2: testosterone good for you? Is it bad for you? Well, 316 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 2: the short answer is it's both. Testosterone clearly makes men 317 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: feel better. It helps with their libido as they get older, 318 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: It helps with them building muscle, muscle mass, it helps 319 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: with them decreasing fat mass. But it can come at 320 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 2: a cost, and that cost is your other organs may 321 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 2: not be able to withstand the additional metabolic costs of 322 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: testosterone supplements compared to younger men. So again there's with everything, 323 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:54,959 Speaker 2: there's no free lunch. There's going to be trade offs. 324 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: And so that's that was the gist. That's a I'm 325 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 2: not sure where the guardian got the metabolic thing. That's 326 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 2: it wasn't my study, and that's not something I. 327 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: Said, Well, be that as it may. I do the implants. 328 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: So I started on the shots, and you do the 329 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: shots once a week, and I didn't like doing the shots, 330 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: so I went to the implants, which is once a quarter. 331 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: And I will tell you from my personal experience in 332 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: terms of as you noted, how I feel. I feel 333 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: a lot better, I can work longer, I'm more attentive. 334 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: I'm more focused, have a lot more energy. It increases 335 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 1: my optimism. But and you talk about weight loss, I 336 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: mean I lost some weight when I went on to it. 337 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: But you note that increased metabolism can be harder for 338 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: can be harder on your system. Is that liver kidney? 339 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: What would What is the problem with the rest of 340 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 1: the body in dealing with more rapid metabolism. 341 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,479 Speaker 2: Well, as you get older, all of your cells, all 342 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 2: the cells in your body are older, and they've had 343 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 2: to withstand basically a lifetime of metabolic processes. And there 344 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: are a lot of things that go on in your 345 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 2: cells and in your tissues as they get older and 346 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 2: as they process energy. One of the things that happens 347 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: that's very important and central to aging is that it 348 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 2: creates these toxic byproducts, and it's collectively known as oxidative stress. 349 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: So every time your cell burns a calorie or two 350 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: of energy, it often incorporates a molecule of oxygen, and 351 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 2: in doing so, your body is able to sort of 352 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 2: burn that energy, but it also creates these toxins. I mean, 353 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 2: you can sort of think of it as sort of 354 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 2: the exhaust that comes out of the tail pipe of 355 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 2: your car. 356 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 4: Is that the free radicals, those are the free radicals 357 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 4: exactly exactly, And those free radicals damage tissue, They damage DNA, 358 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 4: and so as you get older, that damage accumulates and 359 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 4: your cells and your tissue becomes. 360 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 2: Less able, if you will less Yeah, well, they lose 361 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 2: their ability to maintain themselves. And so if you add 362 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 2: testosterone to the mix, the testosterone actually facilitates the higher metabolism, 363 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: you may be over taxing those cells. So think about it. 364 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: You know, you've got a you know, let's say you've 365 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: got a nineteen sixty four car that just happens to 366 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 2: be when I was born, and you you know, drive 367 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 2: it for one hundred and twenty miles an hour on 368 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 2: the freeway. Well, it's it's something's probably gonna break. And 369 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: testos throne is almost like the you know, the methanol 370 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 2: or whatever you do to sort of you know, to 371 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 2: sort of soup up your engine, the you know, the 372 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 2: rest of the parts, you know, the transmission, the suspension, 373 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 2: what have. You may not be able to withstand that 374 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:58,679 Speaker 2: extra stress, and so in in in men, especially as 375 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: they get older, you testosterone and you just have to 376 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: be mindful of the fact that it may make you 377 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: feel good, but it may be taxing other parts of 378 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: your body. So the way I sort of explained it is, 379 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: you know, having you know, more than a few beers 380 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 2: may make you feel good, but it may not necessarily 381 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 2: be good for your health. 382 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: How about bourbon. Bourbon doesn't factor into that, does it. 383 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 2: Well, that's that's that's up to you. That's that's your 384 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 2: own preference. 385 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: All right. I want to talk about something coming up here. 386 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: In just a moment, I'll lay it out and then 387 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,239 Speaker 1: we'll start the next segment with this conversation, and that 388 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: is you talked about oxidative stress and and reproductive stress 389 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 1: and the balance for men, and you talk about women 390 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: as well, and the trade offs that the body has 391 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: to make between it would appear, and this is going 392 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: to be my question to start that the next segment 393 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: that somehow having children. It appears to me that what 394 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 1: you're saying, and this is what I'll ask you to 395 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,480 Speaker 1: answer to start the next segment, that having children causes 396 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: men or being a father causes men to live longer, 397 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: being a mother causes women to live fewer years, and 398 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: how those two think if I'm correct in that's my 399 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: understanding of what you're saying, the data shows then why 400 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: that is, whether that's true, and why that is Professor 401 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: Richard Bribiescus The book is How Men Age? Coming up next, 402 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: mister Michael Berry. Michael Berry show our. 403 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,680 Speaker 3: Fourth and final segment with the author of the book 404 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 3: How Men Age. He's a professor of anthropology, so we'll 405 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 3: talk about the difference between what a doctor might say 406 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 3: and how an anthropology would look at these issues. 407 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 1: His name is Richard bribiesciz. But before we do that, Professor, 408 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: we ended the last segment by talking about something which 409 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: as an anthropologist I could see you wanting to look 410 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: at over the course of you know, sort of human 411 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: history and what this does to the human body and 412 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: how what we eat, how much we eat, what kind 413 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: of activities we're undergoing, and how our body is prepared 414 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: for that. And you used an automobile as a comparison model. 415 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: Am I right in reading your trade offs between oxidative 416 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: stress and reproductive stress and the cost to the body 417 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: that you seem to be saying that having children for 418 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: a father, the behavior of fatherhood enables men to live 419 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: longer but has the reverse effect on women. Am I 420 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: right in that. 421 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: Well, there is evidence that reproduction having kids does have 422 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 2: an impact on your health. So, for example, when you 423 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,159 Speaker 2: look at other organisms, it will I should back up 424 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 2: a little bit. A lot of this. This is the 425 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 2: way we should have conduct Our research is based on 426 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 2: something called life history theory. And life history theory is 427 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 2: actually very simple and very elegant. What it simply says 428 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,920 Speaker 2: is that energy and time that you put into one 429 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 2: aspect of your life is made available for something else. 430 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 2: In other words, you can't burn the same calorie to 431 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: do two things in your body. So if a calorie 432 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 2: is burned to repair a skin cell you cut yourself 433 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: or something, that calorie can't be used to repair a 434 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 2: kidney cell. So your body's constantly making these trade offs 435 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 2: in terms of how to deploy resources. It's sort of 436 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 2: like wondering, you know, am I going to spend this 437 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 2: dollar you know, on you know, lunch, or am I 438 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,400 Speaker 2: going to use it to you know, you know, feed 439 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: the parking meter. You can't do both. So in doing so, 440 00:27:55,680 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: we look at how organisms make these trade offs between 441 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 2: the different needs in life, and especially those needs in 442 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: life that are very expensive, especially those needs that are 443 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 2: metabolically and clerically expensive. So for in many organisms, what 444 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 2: we see is that when when organisms spend a lot 445 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:22,320 Speaker 2: of time and energy on reproduction, they tend to have 446 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 2: shorter lifespans. And it's it's manifested in different ways. So 447 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: for female mammals, you know, let's say, you know, I 448 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 2: don't know, let's look at a mouse or a rat model. 449 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 2: If if a female devotes a lot of energy towards reproduction, 450 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: they tend to have shorter life spans because they're devoting 451 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:48,280 Speaker 2: so much energy to those pregnancies that those are calories 452 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: that don't get deployed towards keeping body and mouse soul together, 453 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 2: towards repairing tissues that would keep them alive. So there's 454 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 2: there's this constant trade off between investment in keeping yourself 455 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 2: alive and investment in reproducing. Now that's the case in 456 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 2: females because they put so much energy into reproduction, so 457 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 2: they have gestation, they have to nurse their kids, so 458 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 2: there's lactation. There are thousands of thousands of calories that 459 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 2: go into that. And what we found, and this is 460 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: research that was conducted by a good friend and colleague 461 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 2: in Poland, is that she wanted to see whether or 462 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: not this relationship. This association existed in humans. And what 463 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,760 Speaker 2: she found, and this is found by other studies, is 464 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: that when she looked at church records in Poland, these 465 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: are rural Polish women back in the eighteen hundreds, and 466 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 2: when she looked at church records and counted how many 467 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 2: children these women had, and then looked at their lifespans 468 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 2: because they kept records on graveyards and what have you, 469 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: what they found was there was a very very distinct 470 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: and strong association between lifespan and number of kids. And so, 471 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 2: in essence, what she found was every chill, every child 472 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 2: a woman had shortened their lifespan by about I believe 473 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:20,320 Speaker 2: it was about eighteen months. And so that was and 474 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 2: this has been found on many other studies. There are 475 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: other studies that haven't found that, but there's been a 476 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 2: compelling number of studies to show that relationship. Now what's 477 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 2: interesting is in her particular study, she actually looked at 478 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: this in fathers and what she found was that there 479 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: was no association between the number of sons a man 480 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 2: fathered and their lifespan, but there was a positive association 481 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 2: between the number of daughters a man had and their 482 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: life and their lifespan which is completely the opposite of 483 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 2: what she saw in women. So in women, their lifespan 484 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: was shortened whether or not they had sons or daughters. 485 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 2: But and the fathers when they had daughters. And this 486 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 2: is a really interesting example of why anthropology is, you know, 487 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 2: one of the reasons why I went into it, because 488 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 2: it's a meshine sort of a you have to understand 489 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 2: and combine both the biology and culture, and so in 490 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: rural Polish culture, in rural Polish culture, and what's true 491 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: in many societies is that you know, when the sons 492 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: get older, they go off to make their way in 493 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: the world and to you know, seek their own fortune 494 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: and start their own families. In Poland, the daughters tend 495 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 2: to stay home and take care of dear old dad. 496 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 2: And so the more daughters that the men had, the 497 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,320 Speaker 2: more daughters they had to take care of them. 498 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 1: That's not where I thought you were going with that. 499 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 3: I thought you were going to say it softens a 500 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 3: man and you know, keeps him and on it. That's 501 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 3: a very interesting point. Let me ask you, professor, Professor 502 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 3: Richard Bribiesquez is our guest. How men age is the 503 00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 3: book in the Animal Kingdom? It seems to be that 504 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 3: after an animal reproduces, their usefulness to the species dies off, 505 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:10,680 Speaker 3: and they die off, and humans live so much longer 506 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 3: it seems relative to anything else after reproduction. Obviously, we 507 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 3: can get into religious beliefs as part of all this 508 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 3: as well, But from a biological or anthropological standpoint, why 509 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 3: do you think that is? 510 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: Wow? That is a very very interesting question, and it's 511 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,840 Speaker 2: a question that's really perplexed a lot of biologists. So 512 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 2: you're absolutely right that in most organisms, their lifespan is 513 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 2: tied with their reproductive lifespan, so when they stop reproducing, 514 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 2: that tends to be the lifespan of the organism. In humans, 515 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 2: as you correctly pointed out, about a third of our lifespan, 516 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 2: especially in women, is post reproductive, right, So menopause hits 517 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 2: about the age of fifty, and that seems to be 518 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 2: a pretty hard stop. We know why menopause happens because 519 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 2: basically women run out of ova and once those eggs 520 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: run out, then obviously you can't conceive, and reproduction stops. 521 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: In most other organisms, that would mean the life span 522 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 2: that organism would be age fifty. But in humans, as 523 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 2: I said earlier, lifespan can be sixty, seventy eighty, even ninety. 524 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: Professor, I hate that we are out of time. Our 525 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: hour went too fast. The book is called How Men Age. 526 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: It's at bookstores now What Evolution reveals about male health 527 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: and mortality. His name is Richard Bribiesquez and he's a 528 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: professor at Yale. And I thank you for spending the 529 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: time with us most interesting stuff. 530 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, Yes, Sarah, Professor. 531 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 3: If you like the Michael Berry Show in podcast, please 532 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,959 Speaker 3: tell one friend, and if you're so inclined, write a 533 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 3: nice review of our podcast. 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