Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,
Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of
Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Americans have spent twenty four billion
Speaker 1: dollars extra in gas since Trump started his war in Iran.
Speaker 1: We have such a great jow for you today. The
Speaker 1: host of the Latino Vote podcast, Mike Madrid, stops by
Speaker 1: to talk about Republicans being completely out of options before
Speaker 1: the midterms. Then we'll talk to civil rights advocate and
Speaker 1: law professor Gimberley Crenshaw about her new memoir, Backtalker in
Speaker 1: American Memoir. But first of the news, Smiley.
Speaker 2: The budget for the ballroom, the big beautiful ballroom, four
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars. But since we have the bootlicker Congress
Speaker 2: that loves to say yes, sir, may I have more,
Speaker 2: they want to give them a billion dollars because they
Speaker 2: don't give a fuck about being conservative or saving our
Speaker 2: tax dollars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is.
Speaker 1: An amazing story in the fact that it is just
Speaker 1: shows that these people don't believe in anything. So Republicans
Speaker 1: got Trump into office and they said that they were
Speaker 1: going to do what cut the deficit, They were going
Speaker 1: to stop waste fraud and abuse. And you know who
Speaker 1: was the face of that, the richest man in the world,
Speaker 1: Elon Musk. Well, fast forward. They're not so interested in waste, fraud,
Speaker 1: and abuse anymore, except if they're doing the waste, the fraud,
Speaker 1: and the abuse. And here we are. Republicans demand one
Speaker 1: billion dollars for Trump's ballroom. Now you'll remember that I
Speaker 1: was told that taxpayers were not going to pay anything
Speaker 1: for this ballroom, and instead of that, we're paying a
Speaker 1: billion dollars. So I don't know how that works, but
Speaker 1: now we are paying a billion dollars in taxpayer money.
Speaker 1: And it is in this reconciliation package. It is for
Speaker 1: security and adjustments and upgrades. That's the waste, fraud, and
Speaker 1: abuse right there, related to the ballroom's construction. An additional
Speaker 1: thirty billion for Ice. You'll remember ICE as having already
Speaker 1: billions and billions of dollars which they used to murder
Speaker 1: American citizens and jail children. Three point five billion for
Speaker 1: customs and border patrol. I wonder how much of that
Speaker 1: is for Christy Nome horseback riding videos. Oh, actually she's
Speaker 1: been fired, so that money has already been spent. This
Speaker 1: is Chuck Grassley. Remember Chuck Grassley, the pretend normal Republican
Speaker 1: who is ten thousand years old. Well, this is Chuck Grassley.
Speaker 1: This is the Senate Judiciary Committee, and they're taking action
Speaker 1: to provide for federal law enforcement and safer streets to
Speaker 1: the American families, because that's what this is really about.
Speaker 1: Safer streets for the American family is a billion dollars.
Speaker 2: Hold On, he may be concerned about safer streets. He's
Speaker 2: tweeted numerous times about hitting deer on the streets with
Speaker 2: his car.
Speaker 1: Listen, he is not a good driver. He is a
Speaker 1: very good vacuumer. If you go on, if you are
Speaker 1: on X, which we do not recommend by any stretch
Speaker 1: of the imagination giving money to Elon Mush, but if
Speaker 1: you are on there, you will see that Charles Grassley,
Speaker 1: who is nine thousand years old, has a vacuum. It
Speaker 1: has a name, and we're all going to die.
Speaker 2: But we should talk a little bit more about this
Speaker 2: because this spending bill really is just a big pretend
Speaker 2: that the assassination attempt at the White House correspondence dinner
Speaker 2: is this huge threat that they need. And now they
Speaker 2: also have to give Ice more money because an American
Speaker 2: citizen was angry at Trump.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, the whole premise of this insanity is
Speaker 1: that the White House Correspondent dinner would take place in
Speaker 1: the White House. The White House Correspondence Association is not
Speaker 1: part of the federal government, so that party was never
Speaker 1: going to take place in the White House.
Speaker 4: So there's that.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, and I think that this is an
Speaker 1: important point here. This is ridiculous, right, like Donald Trump
Speaker 1: should not have leveled the East twin point one second point,
Speaker 1: this should be put together with in the purview of
Speaker 1: the federal government and not in Donald Trump's fever dream. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is not about Donald Trump, right, This is about
Speaker 1: the White House, which belongs to us, the taxpayers, and
Speaker 1: not Donald Trump. But also more than that, what is
Speaker 1: happening here is that they are trying to approve bazillions
Speaker 1: of I mean literally billions of our taxpayer dollars to
Speaker 1: do whatever the fuck they want. And again, in this
Speaker 1: there's money for ICE, CBP and DHS, and it's got
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of flexibility with less accountability and less
Speaker 1: oversight than typical annual appropriations for DHS funding. That means
Speaker 1: that it is giving money that is gonna have even
Speaker 1: less oversight. And this is an administration that is very,
Speaker 1: very focused on not having oversight. So this is just
Speaker 1: an insane, insane way to be. It is like, absolutely
Speaker 1: not the way that any of this should work, and
Speaker 1: none of this. No Democrat should vote for this. But
Speaker 1: John Fetterman, who is not a Democrat and probably going
Speaker 1: to switch part.
Speaker 2: John Fetterman, who's running as my brand is more important
Speaker 2: than my constituents.
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Fetterman, who is running on his one term
Speaker 1: and then never again exactly.
Speaker 2: But branding is important. So anyway, we need to shift
Speaker 2: gears and talk about the Supreme Court and this abortion
Speaker 2: ruling on meph pristone.
Speaker 4: What are you seeing here?
Speaker 1: This is an incredible unforced error for Republicans. And here's
Speaker 1: what happened. The Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals had a
Speaker 1: decision on Friday which said basically, no more metha pristone.
Speaker 1: That's a real problem for Republicans because you know, two
Speaker 1: thirds of all abortions are medication abortions, and they use
Speaker 1: these drugs. These drugs also have other uses for you
Speaker 1: from contractions, et cetera. But the point is the Fifth
Speaker 1: Circuit was like new, we're done, no more. Now here's
Speaker 1: the problem. So the Supreme Court ruled Justice Alito, you
Speaker 1: may know him as being a partisan hack. He appealed
Speaker 1: this day and said, now they can sell it again.
Speaker 1: But here's the problem. In eight days, they're going to
Speaker 1: go on They're basically going to go on the shadow
Speaker 1: dock and decide what's going to happen with this. So
Speaker 1: either they will pull this drug from the market, thus
Speaker 1: setting a precedent that judiciaries that have been politicized can
Speaker 1: pull drugs from the market because they don't like what
Speaker 1: they do. And it will mean no more medication abortions,
Speaker 1: or it will mean more restrictions. And that will happen
Speaker 1: six months before the midterms. And you'll remember abortion pretty popular.
Speaker 1: People don't like taking it away, even Republicans. A lot
Speaker 1: of Republicans are pro choice. So this will be a
Speaker 1: real fucking problem for Republicans. And remember this is a
Speaker 1: very partisan court. So it's six'. Three this is the
Speaker 1: court that Overturned roe. V. WADE i can see a
Speaker 1: real world where they say like no more metha pristo
Speaker 1: and like that's, It we're. Done and if they do,
Speaker 1: that then that's a huge becomes a huge issue for the.
Speaker 1: Midterms another, thing, though is if they don't do, that
Speaker 1: then it also becomes a huge issue for the midterms
Speaker 1: because then the anti choice vote is, furious they're, engaged
Speaker 1: and they start turning On, trump and they're already very
Speaker 1: mad about. This and in, fact you have this woman
Speaker 1: From Pro Life, America marjorie dan And, felzer who said
Speaker 1: that it is shameful that The trump administrations in action
Speaker 1: has forced pro life states to take the battle to
Speaker 1: the federal. Courts so you can see already attention here
Speaker 1: AND i could see. THIS i, mean there are real
Speaker 1: ideologues on this court who would be delighted to pull
Speaker 1: this medicine off the. Market AND i could see that.
Speaker 1: Happening SO i think it'll be very. INTERESTING i think
Speaker 1: it could be really problematic For.
Speaker 2: Trump, YEAH i, agreed and feels like a real. Mess
Speaker 2: so we have had a real spat of sexual impropriety
Speaker 2: among congressional members this, term and it's not ending For.
Speaker 2: Republicans we have Now Representative Chuck, edwards who is in
Speaker 2: A r plus eight, district which means it's very very in,
Speaker 2: play who has numerous witnesses to him acting inappropriately with.
Speaker 1: Staffers, yeah and this guy sounds like a.
Speaker 2: KOOK i would never guess that from this.
Speaker 1: PARTY i mean sexual, harassment really really really. Bad cool,
Speaker 1: though that this house is starting to really focus on
Speaker 1: getting these guys out Of. Congress so he told a
Speaker 1: young female staff or that she had written a complex
Speaker 1: chapter in my heart in a handwritten note that he sent,
Speaker 1: her which she then gave To, axios as one. Should
Speaker 1: when your boss writes a letter like, that why it.
Speaker 1: Matters it matters because a fucking. Creeper and three sources
Speaker 1: Told axios they witnessed contact By edwards towards two female
Speaker 1: staffers in their. Twenties do you want to guess how
Speaker 1: Old Chuck edwards?
Speaker 2: Is AM i going to have nightmares WHEN i learned this.
Speaker 1: Knowledge edwards sixty five has been married since nineteen.
Speaker 2: Eighty nineteen, eighty that's like two years younger than. Us
Speaker 2: we were, deil we were.
Speaker 1: Due we're forty. Seven now we were.
Speaker 4: Taking, well one of us is forty.
Speaker 1: Seven he brought the staffer personal gifts while she was
Speaker 1: employed by, him including. Jewelry one, gift this is the
Speaker 1: one that really gets me, upset included a custom puzzle,
Speaker 1: that when, ASSEMBLED i swear To, god this is like
Speaker 1: the freakiest one revealed an image of After Adam, sandler
Speaker 1: along with a handwritten note inviting the staffer to attend
Speaker 1: one Of sandler's comedy shows with. Him according to a
Speaker 1: photo you By axios and three sources with knowledge of the,
Speaker 1: gift it's unclear if the staffer attended the. SHOW i
Speaker 1: bet you a million dollars That stafford did not attend the.
Speaker 1: Show edwards also gave, gifts including a, purse to another
Speaker 1: young female staffer in her, twenties and did this second
Speaker 1: staffer as his guest to events including The White House
Speaker 1: Christmas party in twenty twenty. Four the three sources, SAID i, mean, look,
Speaker 1: MAN i like this. LINE a member buying gifts for
Speaker 1: staffers is not explicitly Against house. Rules stop being, creeps
Speaker 1: men In, Congress stop being Creep stop all. Change they
Speaker 1: can't do.
Speaker 4: It it's a real.
Speaker 1: Challenge by the, way my favorite part of. This edward's
Speaker 1: office has one of the highest turnover rates In, congress
Speaker 1: with a fifty nine percent turnover and twenty twenty.
Speaker 2: Five, wow that's almost as much As Nancy.
Speaker 1: Mace, yeah, hey, man let's not bring this back To. Nancy,
Speaker 1: hey It's Molly john. Here my, Memoir how To Lose
Speaker 1: Your mother is out now on, paperback arriving just ahead
Speaker 1: Of Mother's. Day how To Lose Your mother has garnered
Speaker 1: a lot of praise From Good Morning, america Then Your,
Speaker 1: Time Book, Review, Vogue Vanity, fair and a lot of other.
Speaker 1: Outlets Washington. Post the book is about what it's like
Speaker 1: to be part of The sandwich, generation to take care
Speaker 1: of your mother and your. Children AND i talk about
Speaker 1: being a mother and a daughter and the RELATIONSHIP i
Speaker 1: have with my mother and all of its. Complexities it's
Speaker 1: funny and it's, fraught and it's, sad and it's about.
Speaker 1: Life my. Story this, story the story Of how To
Speaker 1: Lose Your, mother follows a year in which my, Mother Erica,
Speaker 1: johng is diagnosed with, dementia my husband faces a life threatening,
Speaker 1: illness and what unfolds is a really honest story about
Speaker 1: what happens when the shit hits the and everything goes.
Speaker 1: Wrong as The Washington post, said the book is filled
Speaker 1: with lines so good you won't just want to underline.
Speaker 1: Them it's a memoir that continues to, Resonate so please
Speaker 1: pick it. Up Mike madrid is a political consultant and
Speaker 1: the host Of The Latino vote, podcast and he's the
Speaker 1: author Of The Latino. Century Mike, Madrid.
Speaker 4: Mollie great to be with.
Speaker 1: You diesel is six dollars a, gallon, right six dollars a.
Speaker 1: Gallon Donald trump as unpopular as he has ever, been
Speaker 1: underwater on everything from immigration to, crime to cost of
Speaker 1: living to. Inflation why Did republicans not see this?
Speaker 4: COMING i think the insuller bubble within which they LIVED
Speaker 4: i think has burst and they don't know what reality
Speaker 4: actually looks like. Anymore but, look we're a that like
Speaker 4: Post GEORGE. W bush in your seven, phase when like
Speaker 4: you could blame the, weather bad weather On George bush
Speaker 4: and one's, like, yeah of course THAT sob did. THIS i,
Speaker 4: mean that's where we're. At it's gonna keep getting. Worse
Speaker 4: by the. Way he's positive on no. Issue there's not
Speaker 4: a single thing that he's touching that is working for.
Speaker 4: HIM i don't know what their message is going to
Speaker 4: be going into the.
Speaker 1: Midterms the thing, is we still have the, summer so It's,
Speaker 1: may and we're coming up on this gas price. Situation,
Speaker 1: Right gas is really Expensive americans hate paying for. Gas
Speaker 1: they really. Do like that is the one. Thing it's
Speaker 1: a nonpartisan. Issue the moment gas gets even a tiny
Speaker 1: bit more, expensive people get. Apoplectic it's like we feel
Speaker 1: we are entitled to cheap. GAS i always.
Speaker 4: Thought it would be a million people dying of in the,
Speaker 4: pandemic but, no it's five dollars gallon. Gas it's the.
Speaker 1: Gas and it's like anti democratic. Stuff, nah it's the.
Speaker 1: Gas it's the. Gas, yeah can you explain to. Us
Speaker 1: you do a lot of polling follow The latino vote really.
Speaker 1: Carefully that is a vote that is sort of the
Speaker 1: new swing. Voters talk us through.
Speaker 4: It that's kind of the new soccer.
Speaker 1: Mom.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah but, YEAH i think what the difference is
Speaker 4: like with soccer, moms there was an attempt to kind
Speaker 4: of appeal to what they were clearly telling the. Pollsters
Speaker 4: latinos are a little bit different because both parties are really
Speaker 4: struggling to kind of understand, them because both parties, Believe,
Speaker 4: okay this is a minority, voter let's talk to them
Speaker 4: the way we've always talked to other minority, voters and
Speaker 4: that doesn't seem to be. Working and then there's also
Speaker 4: this kind of feeling Like republicans are just, like, well
Speaker 4: let's just pretend like they're like everybody, else which of
Speaker 4: course doesn't work because they're not like everybody. Else and
Speaker 4: so you end up in this scenario where both parties
Speaker 4: don't really understand, it And latinos are the least racially
Speaker 4: polarized and the most likely to be independent. Voters they're
Speaker 4: the least likely to be registered with a party of
Speaker 4: any major ethnic. Group and it's growing so, Fast, molly
Speaker 4: that we're witnessing as. Dealignment they're moving away from both
Speaker 4: parties and they're banishing whichever part is in. Power so,
Speaker 4: yes it's increasingly going to be this swing voter that
Speaker 4: is not voting for a, party it's really voting against a.
Speaker 1: Party so this gets us back to this idea that they.
Speaker 1: Dropped The republicans dropped the ball because we are seeing
Speaker 1: people vote, again, Right we're seeing this anti incumbent. Hostility
Speaker 1: so if you were A, republican if you Were Donald
Speaker 1: trump and you had been watching what happened With Joe
Speaker 1: biden for four, years you had been running on this
Speaker 1: idea That Joe biden was old And Donald trump was,
Speaker 1: young a completely insane statement because they're both very close in.
Speaker 1: Age wouldn't you have been a little bit prepared for
Speaker 1: the idea that the anti incumbent sentiment might come and
Speaker 1: bite you when you were the. Incumbent.
Speaker 4: YEAH i don't Think Donald trump lives in that, reality.
Speaker 4: RIGHT i, mean like If Donald trump had just gone
Speaker 4: golfing At mar Al lago instead of Like Liberation day
Speaker 4: and tariffs and wars in The Middle east and Like epstein,
Speaker 4: files all he had to do is going golf and
Speaker 4: he could be built is arct The trump and you,
Speaker 4: know putting his name all over whatever. Currencycy he would
Speaker 4: be sitting in the mid high fifties right now in support.
Speaker 4: Levels but he. Didn't he can't help. Himself and The,
Speaker 4: republicans of, course fealty has become the, driving animating characteristic
Speaker 4: of the, party so they're going to go walk step with.
Speaker 4: It but what, Happened molly was after The epstein, stuff
Speaker 4: you start to see this, break and this break starts
Speaker 4: to happen with the, influencers the right, wing you, know.
Speaker 4: Influencers it's the fight Between tucker And megan And candae
Speaker 4: And Mark levine And. Shapiro AND i hate myself for
Speaker 4: knowing who all these people. Are it's not even. Ideological
Speaker 4: it's like this high school of middle school spat and
Speaker 4: but that's the that's the animating politics of The Republican.
Speaker 4: Party and so without, that what happens now is you're
Speaker 4: Seeing Donald trump's base level support. Level he's at sixty
Speaker 4: eight percent approval Amongst. Republicans, molly in ten years of
Speaker 4: watching this every, morning waking up having my, coffee look
Speaker 4: looking at this, number trying to figure out to break
Speaker 4: it below eighty, eight he's now twenty points below anywhere
Speaker 4: he's ever been, before ever With republicans.
Speaker 1: And republican leaners. Too right there are the Indie. Republicans
Speaker 1: explain that to, us because that is the that's a
Speaker 1: group that he cannot win.
Speaker 4: Without that's even more. DAMAGE i, mean it's all. Damaging
Speaker 4: but let's talk about it independent for just a. Second
Speaker 4: we know that a lot of people will Say i'm
Speaker 4: not Either republican Or, democrat but we also know that,
Speaker 4: demographically for, example an, older white homeowning male who's Saying
Speaker 4: i'm independent is going to Vote republican ninety percent of the,
Speaker 4: time right the same way a Young hispanic woman In
Speaker 4: Santa Monica. California maybe, independent but she's gonna vote for
Speaker 4: A democrat ninety percent of the. Time so these are leaners,
Speaker 4: demographically we know how they're going to. Break but these,
Speaker 4: leaners These republican, leaners are at a historic. Low and
Speaker 4: WHEN i say, historic it's worse Than GEORGE. W bush In.
Speaker 4: Iraq it's worse Than Jimmy carter, stagflation it's worse Than
Speaker 4: nixon Water. Gates, yeah we've never seen numbers this. Bad
Speaker 4: and so that that historic break with just. Independence even
Speaker 4: if he were holding The republican, base which is, not
Speaker 4: he would be in, deep deep. Trouble but he's losing
Speaker 4: Core Republican maga constituency. Now and that's why It's Katie
Speaker 4: BARADOR i want.
Speaker 1: To talk about why he's losing him because so The
Speaker 1: epstein file was The Epstein files fiasco was this first,
Speaker 1: break and you Saw Pam bondi is no longer employed
Speaker 1: basically because of. That right she did The. Binders it
Speaker 1: got everybody in That maga world very. Excited there was
Speaker 1: nothing in, there and then she went into a sort of.
Speaker 1: Tailspin she did this hearing where she, said why won't
Speaker 1: you thank Mister trump for The dow at fifty, thousand
Speaker 1: which was like a little Too North korean propaganda even
Speaker 1: for trump.
Speaker 4: Discuss you're exactly. Right the break point is The Epstein,
Speaker 4: files because one of the animating characteristics again of Trump
Speaker 4: ism is his visceral hate For, democrats so much so
Speaker 4: that they paint them as. Pedophile there's nothing worse you
Speaker 4: can be than somebody who abuses, children, right, Yes and
Speaker 4: it's all in this conspiracy about The Epstein, files and
Speaker 4: like everything In trump rolled its, projection and so that
Speaker 4: becomes the focal point of this reelection and keeps the base.
Speaker 4: Together we've got to go get the, demonic Horrible democrats
Speaker 4: who are trying to eat our children and do all
Speaker 4: these bad. Things, well once he turns on, that once
Speaker 4: he betrays them on, that everything else becomes. Suspect and
Speaker 4: then suddenly all these bad policy, decisions whether It's venezuela
Speaker 4: for no real good, reason or whether it's monetary, policy
Speaker 4: whether it's Attacking canada or threatening to Invade, greenland and
Speaker 4: then certainly Invading iran with no, objective no, mission and
Speaker 4: no exit, strategy people realize this has all been a.
Speaker 4: Ruse like it took a lot of people to get
Speaker 4: out of the. Cult but once you're out of the,
Speaker 4: cult you're not going. Back and that's where he's. At
Speaker 4: that's what the problem. Is and that's why the likelihood
Speaker 4: of this getting far worse is much greater than it
Speaker 4: getting better for.
Speaker 1: Him, Right and that's so let's talk through. That so
Speaker 1: you had these. Influencers those influencers are not they are
Speaker 1: Not Walter. Cronkite they are sticking their finger up and being,
Speaker 1: like my people are, mad and that's why they're turning On, trump, Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah they're gonna you can't defend the indefensible. Anymore and
Speaker 4: that's the. Problem and how what you saw was The
Speaker 4: Candice owens and The Tucker carlson sees the opportunity to be, Like,
Speaker 4: okay the gazelle is wounded on THE serengeti attack. Him,
Speaker 4: now NOW i go after, him and they become the.
Speaker 4: Predator right at, first they were, there you, know they
Speaker 4: were getting followers by being part of the cheerleading crowd
Speaker 4: and the you, know rallying it on once he's, wounded
Speaker 4: and they you, KNOW i guess hat tip to them
Speaker 4: for understanding having a finger on the pulse of where
Speaker 4: this was. Going and realizing he's, done like he's mortally.
Speaker 4: Wounded this is a bridge too. Far they turn on
Speaker 4: him And carlson, like you're gonna start seeing his numbers
Speaker 4: moving up in this next presidential discussion very. Shortly it's
Speaker 4: not as high AS i would expect it to be right,
Speaker 4: now but as anti Trump ism sets, in now that
Speaker 4: he is the, establishment he is the, swamp he is the. Liar,
Speaker 4: yeah betrayal is a deep. Emotion it's why they hated
Speaker 4: Us Lincoln project guys so. Much we were as bad
Speaker 4: as they much as they Hate. Democrats it was the
Speaker 4: betrayers the, terms and that's what's going to drive a,
Speaker 4: deep deep passionate Anti trump. Sentiment and you're gonna have
Speaker 4: the Ten, cruises you, know The Marco rubios and The
Speaker 4: jadevan's apologists trying to hold it, together and the old
Speaker 4: Feeble man you, know still doing his you, know crazy,
Speaker 4: talks trying to gin back support. Up it's not coming
Speaker 4: back like if they've turned it across The. Rubicon so let's.
Speaker 3: Talk LET i.
Speaker 1: Want to do another minute with These trump influencers because
Speaker 1: you have to explain to us what happened With Ben,
Speaker 1: Shapiro BECAUSE i Think Ben shapiro for these people is
Speaker 1: a real cautionary.
Speaker 4: Tale so Remember Ben shapiro literally catapults during the rise
Speaker 4: Of trump and twenty fifteen as an Anti trump. Voice
Speaker 4: he's the one who is saying this is not, conservatism
Speaker 4: this is, bad this is going to go. Wrong he,
Speaker 4: then you, know is one of the first people to
Speaker 4: turn And Jenny fleck and, Say, OKAY i get. IT i,
Speaker 4: LOST i was. WRONG i got the feel of the
Speaker 4: of The Republican party wrong and becomes This trump. Acolyte
Speaker 4: and there's the beneficiary of that that, becomes you, know
Speaker 4: part of this, fissure which is not really as much
Speaker 4: ideological as a as A i believe it's a network.
Speaker 4: Disagreement WHAT i mean by that is the following sticks
Speaker 4: With Ben shapiro until somebody else's network starts to get,
Speaker 4: bigger and in this case It's Tucker. Carlson this fight
Speaker 4: Between Tucker carlson And Ben shapiro presumably On, israel although
Speaker 4: it's really about a bigger. Worldview it's starts With, israel
Speaker 4: but now it's going to become about monetary policy and
Speaker 4: About america first and protectionism and nativism and Who's american
Speaker 4: and who's not, Right and so it starts as this
Speaker 4: you Know, israel you Know gaza, story but it's really a,
Speaker 4: deep deep demarcation line where we used to have moderates versus.
Speaker 4: Conservatives it's now about two different worldviews of our engagement
Speaker 4: in foreign alliances and who's pulling the, strings as they,
Speaker 4: say and the Protectionist america first, isolationists which Is tucker,
Speaker 4: saying you were, You, maga you were never, Wrong we
Speaker 4: never should have got involved in. This you were betrayed By.
Speaker 4: Trump you are betrayed By Ben. Shapiro they suckered us into,
Speaker 4: This so you don't have anything to apologize. For there to.
Speaker 4: Blame and that's WHAT i think is so appealing about
Speaker 4: What tucker is doing and Why Ben shapiro's spiraling and
Speaker 4: collapsing right.
Speaker 1: NOW i also, THINK i, Mean i'm no fan Of Ben,
Speaker 1: shapiro but clearly Anti semitism is, huge.
Speaker 4: Huge broadly by the, Way, yeah we're in a moment
Speaker 4: where there's there's danger signs and red alarms going off and,
Speaker 4: saying you, know Anti semitism is a unique hatred because
Speaker 4: it's the sign of coming hatreds beyond, that M, m
Speaker 4: it's always the, first but it opens the door to everything.
Speaker 4: Else and that's what that moment has. Been and it's
Speaker 4: across both.
Speaker 1: Parties, yeah though it's much worse on the, RIGHT i
Speaker 1: mean for, sure for, Sure, YEAH i MEAN i definitely
Speaker 1: THINK i see certainly see shades of it on the.
Speaker 1: Left book not the. Same, no just watch. Out yes
Speaker 1: that's right. NOW i wonder if we could talk, About
Speaker 1: uh so we're talking about like How trump found himself
Speaker 1: in this moment where he was no longer controlling the.
Speaker 1: Narrative AND i think it started With. Epstein then it
Speaker 1: was this wild foreign war. Adventures AND i remember being
Speaker 1: on television the day before The venezuela thing and, saying,
Speaker 1: Well trump will never go To venezuela because he hasn't
Speaker 1: tried to sell it at all to The american. People
Speaker 1: and you, know Even republicans try to sell a war
Speaker 1: before doing. It AND i was completely. Wrong SO i
Speaker 1: just want you to explain what you think happened there
Speaker 1: and then how it got us To. IRAN i think properly.
Speaker 4: Understood It's Donald trump think he had already sold. It
Speaker 4: he thinks that's what the campaign. Was hegsith becomes A
Speaker 4: secretary of, war Not secretary Of, Defense like we're going
Speaker 4: on the. Offense and he believed that the election was
Speaker 4: a mandate for, that and so in his mind he
Speaker 4: had sold this you, know, muscular you know foreign, policy
Speaker 4: That america is going to Be america. Again we're going
Speaker 4: to go start taking stuff as a way of defending
Speaker 4: our currency and taking on The. Chinese he starts flexing Against. Greenland,
Speaker 4: right let's start. Negotiating we'll buy. It if, not we'll take.
Speaker 4: It he Slaps canada in the. Face he starts you, know,
Speaker 4: dropping you, know signs Into mexico with the, cartels like
Speaker 4: this is all, Ours it's all. Ours it's just a
Speaker 4: matter of. Sequencing, look he's still going to Take, cuba you,
Speaker 4: know AND i Think taiwan becomes just a chess, Piece,
Speaker 4: like are we going to really Defend taiwan now with
Speaker 4: with as extended as we. Are, no if she Wants,
Speaker 4: taiwan he'll take it in a. Meccicas we're not gonna do
Speaker 4: a thing about.
Speaker 1: It so let's talk first about what's happening With, iran
Speaker 1: because today there was this press conference heg. Seth you, know,
Speaker 1: basically there are a lot of people who think that
Speaker 1: the ceasefire is, over and that they are really just
Speaker 1: doing like a military action under the guise of not
Speaker 1: and that we're sort of we're in this moment Where
Speaker 1: trump is sort of saying something isn't, happening that is really.
Speaker 1: Happening that was the net net of the press CONFERENCE
Speaker 1: i saw this, morning and SO i wonder what you think, That,
Speaker 1: like how is that? Tenable and also the big thing
Speaker 1: that is Making Donald trump the most unpopular more than
Speaker 1: anything is the gas.
Speaker 4: Prices so first of, all this is not tenable under any.
Speaker 4: Scenario the only possible way he gets out of this
Speaker 4: he can't even like wake up to the and go,
Speaker 4: okay let's pull out in declare. Victory his base isn't
Speaker 4: gonna believe that even, now because of The epstein, stuff
Speaker 4: because of getting into this, war because they feel. Betrayed
Speaker 4: the only possible WAY i see it is there's got
Speaker 4: to be a bigger. Distraction there's got to be another
Speaker 4: war he's got to move to to, Say, okay, well declare.
Speaker 4: Victory we took care of. This now we've got to
Speaker 4: go fight this. War No one's going to buy that.
Speaker 4: Much but that's kind Of trump's world of. VIEW i
Speaker 4: think that's the only possible escape patch he can. Pull
Speaker 4: the likelihood of this going all the way to the
Speaker 4: end of The trump, PRESIDENCY i think is very very.
Speaker 4: High and as you just correctly pointed, out we are
Speaker 4: just now seeing the spiking gas prices in a meaning
Speaker 4: way just. Now like the last tankers have come Into
Speaker 4: Long beach In california with two hundred thousand barrels of,
Speaker 4: oil that's. It when it's, done the prices are gonna.
Speaker 4: Spike even if we opened the straits, tomorrow there's going
Speaker 4: to be dramatic. Spikes so you could see nine dollars
Speaker 4: ten dollars a gallon gas In. California that's like six
Speaker 4: dollars six fifty seven in other parts of the. Country
Speaker 4: and as you correctly pointed, out like gas prices, are
Speaker 4: that's our religion In, america like, that don't mess with.
Speaker 1: That AND i think like an important caveat is that,
Speaker 1: diesel for whatever, reason is even more. Expensive and diesel
Speaker 1: is the airplane. Fuel so when you have what happened
Speaker 1: with With Spirit, airlines that doesn't exist in a vacuum
Speaker 1: that comes directly from these diesel.
Speaker 4: Prices boeing was projecting a four billion dollar profit that
Speaker 4: they've had to come back from revised and say it's.
Speaker 4: Gone four billion dollars is gone with current current diesel,
Speaker 4: prices and it's not going. Down so we're hitting the
Speaker 4: point where the economy is going to start. Choking we're
Speaker 4: choking the economy right. Now and it's all self. Owned
Speaker 4: none of this had to, happen not one bit of,
Speaker 4: it and The american people know. It.
Speaker 1: Yeah it's interesting because it's LIKE i, have you, KNOW
Speaker 1: i have this theory that want That trump is suffering
Speaker 1: from a lot of the problems of the. Seventies i'm
Speaker 1: not going to say who was president, then because everybody
Speaker 1: of my let all my listeners love that, person including. Me,
Speaker 1: yeah but he. Was he ran a foul of things
Speaker 1: that were not his, fault, right Don trump is the exact.
Speaker 1: Opposite he's running a foul of things that are actually his.
Speaker 3: Fault.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah that's Why i'm saying if he had just
Speaker 4: gone golfing at Mar A lago and drooled on himself
Speaker 4: a little, bit and then we'd, laugh and you, know
Speaker 4: we'd still be frightened by who he. Is but all
Speaker 4: of this is all his own. Fault this is a
Speaker 4: self owned in soccer parlor self goal like you scored on,
Speaker 4: Yourself like this is. Everything everything he's, done the overreach
Speaker 4: on the immigration, stuff the ice, raids the, crackdowns the masque,
Speaker 4: porte the mass jack booted, thugs the tariff policy On Liberation,
Speaker 4: day the offending The, canadians the you, know the the
Speaker 4: slapping the face OF, nato the invasions Of, venezuela like
Speaker 4: the war In, iran The epstein, file literally all of,
Speaker 4: It all of, It molly is all a function of
Speaker 4: his owning. Competence and when you realize it's not just
Speaker 4: like a bad string of bad, decisions it's just he's
Speaker 4: not capable mentally of managing this. Anymore and he's surrounded
Speaker 4: himself not with talented. People say what you will About Joe,
Speaker 4: biden the people around him knew how to run the damn.
Speaker 1: Government that means, yes, YES i mean, right but, yes
Speaker 1: but there was but it was all And Tulci gabbard AND. R.
Speaker 4: F K junior, like, yes these were these were maybe the, mistakes,
Speaker 4: absolutely but.
Speaker 1: Yeah but you can't compare that you had real government
Speaker 1: people who knew how to. Government, yeah. PRECISELY i wonder,
Speaker 1: now would you if you were Down trump and you
Speaker 1: were woke up and Were Donald, trump what would what
Speaker 1: would the first thing you would?
Speaker 4: Do. Babic so here's the real, conundrum and it's a
Speaker 4: conundrum not just for, him but it's for everybody. Else
Speaker 4: is you have to literally make one hundred and eighty degree. Pivot,
Speaker 4: yeah you have to SAY i made a, mistake which
Speaker 4: is not In trump's. Vernacular he's literally not capable of.
Speaker 4: It he'd rather lie about it and make that. Pivot
Speaker 4: but he's still not doing. That maybe he. Does but
Speaker 4: even if he, does LIKE i, said that, believability that
Speaker 4: that blind trust after The epstein files lies is. GONE
Speaker 4: i Mean Marjorie Taylor green left like where we're out
Speaker 4: mass he's. Gone and so the Other republicans who are,
Speaker 4: looking you, know These republican plus ten districts that are
Speaker 4: probably gonna. Lose what's the incentive anymore to defend. Him
Speaker 4: you're gonna have to start running away from. Him and
Speaker 4: that's gonna be the next round of this by. Summer
Speaker 4: is not only are they gonna not Want trump out
Speaker 4: on the, Stump you're gonna start SAYING i. Disappear you're
Speaker 4: start hearing people disagree with, him which you have never
Speaker 4: seen in The trump. Era it is all new new territory.
Speaker 1: And you're gonna AND i think it's important to realize
Speaker 1: is that these people are Being they're making the craven
Speaker 1: calculus That trump is so unpopular that they have to
Speaker 1: break with.
Speaker 4: Him and that's such an important point because, Again trump
Speaker 4: has always been we can't live with, him we can't
Speaker 4: live without. Him he is now more demonstrably more reliability
Speaker 4: than an. Asset that has never been the case in
Speaker 4: The republican. Base so now that's going to change the
Speaker 4: entire dynamics of The republican. Caucus you Have Ted kruss
Speaker 4: already flexing For. Iowa Tucker carlston is leaning into, this
Speaker 4: the debate about whether it's it's going to Be vance
Speaker 4: Or Rubio Don junior showing, up you know with a
Speaker 4: walking into the high is it going to Be Don?
Speaker 4: Junior Like trump is not going to do well when
Speaker 4: everyone else is talking about who's going to be the next.
Speaker 4: President this gets more, erratic this gets more, difficult and
Speaker 4: there's going to be more incentive to be Against trump
Speaker 4: than for. Him and we've never been in that scenario
Speaker 4: since twenty.
Speaker 1: Sixteen if you're The Republican party at this moment and
Speaker 1: you are running Against, trump doesn't that mean that you
Speaker 1: are coming, like won't you alienate what's left OF maga
Speaker 1: by doing? That?
Speaker 4: Yeah and that's for somebody like. Me that's the beauty
Speaker 4: of the. Moment we've been waiting for this for ten.
Speaker 4: Years we all knew this was. Coming Lindsey graham knew
Speaker 4: this was. Coming Marco rubio knew this was. Coming they
Speaker 4: were saying. It this is the reckoning you are choosing
Speaker 4: now Between it's a damned if you, do damned if you.
Speaker 4: Don't you always chosen to be with him rather than against.
Speaker 4: Him you are going to see more and More republicans
Speaker 4: making the opposite. Choice that's What tucker's, Doing that's What
Speaker 4: Megan kelly's, Doing that's What Candice owen's. Doing that's what
Speaker 4: all these people are.
Speaker 1: Doing if you're a billionaire Like Jeff bezos and you've
Speaker 1: been like basically trying to obey in advance With The
Speaker 1: apprentice and you, know wanting to do The Don Junior
Speaker 1: apprentice And, milania when do you make the calculus that
Speaker 1: you were always against.
Speaker 4: This you'll make the calculus as late as, possible and
Speaker 4: when there's new, leadership because they've got enough money to
Speaker 4: buy their way back in regardless of his, there they don't.
Speaker 1: Care Mike madrid really, smart so, interesting a lot of
Speaker 1: questions THAT i felt like you really answered for. Me thank.
Speaker 4: You, thanks great to be with you.
Speaker 1: Always Kimberly crenshaw is a civil rights lawyer and the
Speaker 1: author of Back, talker An american. Memoir, Welcome, Welcome. Kimberly
Speaker 1: you're like the iconic law, professor law, scholar legal, genius
Speaker 1: and now you're here with a. Memoir, Hi, Hi, hi
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. On i'm so. EXCITED i wrote
Speaker 1: a memoir, too SO i know what it's like to
Speaker 1: come from one lane and not try but like you're
Speaker 1: shifting into another. LANE i think of you as like
Speaker 1: one of the fundamental legal scholars who created an idea
Speaker 1: which has a lot of salience in any which. Way
Speaker 1: and now here you are doing a, memoir which is
Speaker 1: so it's like the preface and the, PostScript and so
Speaker 1: talk us through how different that.
Speaker 3: Is, well you, know a.
Speaker 5: Legal, scotl especially among, academics is framed as somebody who
Speaker 5: just analyzes legal, principles applies the special magic legal, analysis you,
Speaker 5: know to come to some kind of legal. Conclusion, WELL
Speaker 5: i never really bought into. That that's partly why the
Speaker 5: entire field That i've been part of exists to sort
Speaker 5: of challenge that. Idea but even when you challenge the,
Speaker 5: idea you usually do so by moving around ideas and.
Speaker 5: Principles you don't often, say, well WHEN i was five years,
Speaker 5: OLD i really wanted to Be Thorne. Rosa it is very,
Speaker 5: much you, know a different, register yet it is deeply
Speaker 5: connected to critical or e, sia to, intersectionality because those
Speaker 5: ideas didn't simply come from my sitting in an office
Speaker 5: somewhere in a light bulb you, know. Flashes it's instead
Speaker 5: trying to make sense of my life over, time being
Speaker 5: born in the sixties in the middle of The civil rights,
Speaker 5: movement coming of age in the seventies in the middle
Speaker 5: of The women's, movement and really trying to trace the
Speaker 5: kind of experiences THAT i had that always raised a,
Speaker 5: question what about? This how come we're not talking about?
Speaker 5: That so just bringing all those questions together over time
Speaker 5: is what led me to ask some of the questions
Speaker 5: of the law that led to, intersectionality that led to
Speaker 5: critical a.
Speaker 3: Theory so it's a.
Speaker 5: Response to the way that these ideas have traveled into,
Speaker 5: culture but it's a response that locates it in the
Speaker 5: experience of lived lives here in this country in the
Speaker 5: twentieth twenty first, century not something that came From europe
Speaker 5: or not something that's, fantastical but something that's material and.
Speaker 1: Real it's funny BECAUSE i was going to ask, you
Speaker 1: AND i want to ask you about the insane ruling
Speaker 1: from This Supreme court to just strike down the voting
Speaker 1: right To, act Which i'm sure you could have told
Speaker 1: me a long time was, coming especially because you worked
Speaker 1: on The Anita hill. HEARINGS i.
Speaker 5: DID i did so WHEN i came into law, teaching
Speaker 5: there were so few black women that most of, us
Speaker 5: if we didn't know each other, personally we knew of each.
Speaker 3: Other so when it WAS i, mean you have to
Speaker 3: go back to the.
Speaker 1: Hearings in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3: One nineteen ninety, one it was very.
Speaker 5: Contested even When Clarence thomas was nominated by the First
Speaker 5: President bush to Replace Thurgood, marshall who was a civil rights.
Speaker 5: Hero so obviously there was controversy Because Clarence thomas was
Speaker 5: never seen as pro civil.
Speaker 3: Rights Now i've never seen as someone who.
Speaker 5: Is about trying to Continue Thirdgood marshall's. Legacy so it
Speaker 5: was controversial from the. Start and then there was a
Speaker 5: report that he had been accused of sexual harassment by
Speaker 5: someone who was.
Speaker 3: Not trying to come.
Speaker 5: Forward she just had shared the story with someone and
Speaker 5: it made its way to The Judiciary, committee and then
Speaker 5: she was subpoena to. Come WHEN i realized it was
Speaker 5: SOMEONE i, KNEW i reached out to her just to
Speaker 5: see if she needed support and, help and in, fact
Speaker 5: she was pulling together her legal. Team so that NIGHT
Speaker 5: i was on a plane heading To, washington D. C
Speaker 5: SO i was at a front seat at one of
Speaker 5: the most consequential moments In american. Politics and WHAT i
Speaker 5: write about in this moment is how the failure of
Speaker 5: anti racism to anticipate a gendered reality for black women
Speaker 5: that might be different from the way black men experienced.
Speaker 5: Racism AND i would say a similar failure in the
Speaker 5: part of some feminists to understand that although all feminists
Speaker 5: are subject to or all women are subject to some
Speaker 5: form of sexual harassmen and other people as, well the
Speaker 5: history of black people with respect to you, know stereotypes
Speaker 5: about deviant sexuality and the way in Which black people
Speaker 5: are diminished by these stereotypes made it that much more
Speaker 5: complicated for a black women to come. Forward nobody wanted
Speaker 5: to talk about those. Complications so When Clarence thomas waltzes
Speaker 5: in and says this is nothing but a high tech,
Speaker 5: lynching millions of, people Especially black, people who were kind
Speaker 5: of sitting on the fence About Clarence, thomas went way
Speaker 5: over to the other, side and their justification for it
Speaker 5: was sexual harassment is not a black woman's. Issue that
Speaker 5: blew my mind because sexual harassment actually sort of came
Speaker 5: from black women's. Experiences they were some of the primary.
Speaker 5: Plaintiffs so this was a history that our community didn't.
Speaker 5: Know it hadn't been told. Much so the split was
Speaker 5: easier to break the coalition against this anti civil rights.
Speaker 5: Nomination so it was traumatizing in so many. Ways it
Speaker 5: really challenged my sense of the. We but what it
Speaker 5: did do When Clarence thomas was finally confirmed by the
Speaker 5: smallest margin in, history a colleague of mine AND i
Speaker 5: one of the only black men who came TO dc
Speaker 5: to Support, anita we both, said this is going to
Speaker 5: change the rest of our, life and it.
Speaker 3: Did it changed our.
Speaker 5: Lives we're, looking you, know right now to a moment
Speaker 5: where the crown jewel of the civil rights movement has
Speaker 5: been crushed by A Supreme court that's largely led By Clarence.
Speaker 5: Thomas we lost so much of the civil rights infrastructure
Speaker 5: that people, fought bled and died.
Speaker 3: For and much of this was made.
Speaker 5: Possible when we don't have effective coalitions and effective interface
Speaker 5: between many of the issues that we fight. Against our
Speaker 5: fight against, racism in our fight against patriarchy often aren't smoothly,
Speaker 5: interactional and that's what my work has always been trying
Speaker 5: to help.
Speaker 1: Facilitate it's funny because you, KNOW i Had my mother
Speaker 1: was Is Eric, johng who's like very white, feminist you,
Speaker 1: know just did not have a lot of ability to
Speaker 1: see any struggle beyond her, own which you know is
Speaker 1: a real. Failing and one of the things when you
Speaker 1: talk about, this you, know she was born in nineteen forty,
Speaker 1: two and she couldn't put together that what she was
Speaker 1: trying to do was orders of magnitude harder and more
Speaker 1: complicated for black. Women but WHEN i think so much
Speaker 1: about what we know about sexual, harassment and we know.
Speaker 1: That you, know there's it's much more about power than
Speaker 1: it is about.
Speaker 5: Sex absolutely, Right and it is also ABOUT i call
Speaker 5: it asymmetric, solidarities And i'll just correct. Way women are
Speaker 5: expected to stand strong and, firm you.
Speaker 3: Know with the men in their.
Speaker 5: Communities black women in, particular are often disciplined by this
Speaker 5: idea that our primary battle is around race where we,
Speaker 5: diverge you, know where black women experience something different from black.
Speaker 5: Men the idea is we can wait to deal with.
Speaker 5: That we have to deal with the primary, directive and
Speaker 5: the primary directive is racial. Advancement, well what about the
Speaker 5: fact that you, Know Clarence thomas wasn't standing in solidarity
Speaker 5: With Anita hill in her career, advancement sexually harassed. Her
Speaker 5: so this is sort of WHAT i mean WHEN i
Speaker 5: say we're often expected to ride or die with, men
Speaker 5: and men are not expected to ride or die with.
Speaker 5: Us this is across the, board but it's particularly challenging
Speaker 5: when you are collectively fighting against. Racism but some forms of,
Speaker 5: racism they're sort of a footnote or.
Speaker 3: Asterisk you. Know we can come back and consider that, lately.
Speaker 1: AND i, mean we saw that in the sixties from
Speaker 1: some black men, too that the idea that black women
Speaker 1: they could be disposable to us to some, extent that
Speaker 1: their plight was not as important as the larger. Plight
Speaker 1: and you, know you see with white women right that
Speaker 1: they overlay identify with their whiteness over they're being disempowered
Speaker 1: and the marriage.
Speaker 3: Gender is often secondary and we forget.
Speaker 5: That like so many people were surprised about the fact
Speaker 5: that the majority of white women did not Support harris
Speaker 5: and instead Supported.
Speaker 3: Trump kind of, like, well what are we forgetting about?
Speaker 5: Gender that we've learned over and over again the primary
Speaker 5: identification often among all women is with, men regardless of
Speaker 5: what the men the male agenda. Is so it could
Speaker 5: be you, Know i'm going to take away your reproductive,
Speaker 5: freedom going to take away your right to work to
Speaker 5: pursue a.
Speaker 3: Career too many women are willing to abide by that
Speaker 3: because of the larger investment that they have with their
Speaker 3: communities as defined and led and dictated by the men
Speaker 3: in their. Lives is.
Speaker 5: Interesting it's the one thing you know that women across
Speaker 5: all races kind of have in common is primary. Orientation
Speaker 5: SO i try to talk to women and other people
Speaker 5: about the damaging dimension of that primary, affiliation and the
Speaker 5: refusal to think about what happens when all of these
Speaker 5: isms come, together but our politics do not come together
Speaker 5: to fight.
Speaker 1: THEM i want to ask you about the sort of
Speaker 1: polite racism of the rejection Of Harris, yea because one
Speaker 1: of the things we would hear on the, trail WHICH,
Speaker 1: i being, NAIVE i thought it meant what they were,
Speaker 1: saying but NOW i realized they were being polite. Racist
Speaker 1: but polite, racist they would, say we like hars we
Speaker 1: just don't know enough about.
Speaker 5: Her so we know about the, racist sexually assaulted stranger
Speaker 5: to the truth That trump. Is so it's more important
Speaker 5: to know his failings than it is.
Speaker 3: To take a chance with someone who has none of those.
Speaker 5: Things in a. RESUME i couldn't agree. More it is polite.
Speaker 5: Racism it is a way of justifying AND i think
Speaker 5: so many things were going, on you, know really across the.
Speaker 5: Board so of course all candidates have issues that make
Speaker 5: them less than. Ideal we've never had a candidate who was,
Speaker 5: ideal so let's just put, that you, know out. There
Speaker 5: but what seems to be operative here is a reluctance
Speaker 5: to imagine a woman as the chief, executive and then
Speaker 5: on top of that a set of rhetorics that were
Speaker 5: particularly racialized that.
Speaker 3: Made her even more of a target of.
Speaker 5: Disdain, so, look people said horrible things About Hillary, clinton
Speaker 5: but they didn't call her a.
Speaker 1: Slut they did not invoke sexuality With Hillary. Clinton and
Speaker 1: both of them dressed in that same, way the only
Speaker 1: available lane for women, politicians, right pan, suits, subtle casual,
Speaker 1: jewelry short.
Speaker 5: Hair you, know they don't the professional look, Right and
Speaker 5: we understand why they felt they needed to dress that.
Speaker 5: Way that's the sexiest part of, it the massogyn, noir you,
Speaker 5: know is even Though Kamala harris dressed that, way she
Speaker 5: could not escape the pre existing stereotypes that were always
Speaker 5: available to toss at any black, woman no matter her,
Speaker 5: authority her, accomplishment her. Intelligence she was still going to
Speaker 5: be called a, slut and the media were not really
Speaker 5: going to call people to task on.
Speaker 3: It it was, like what can you?
Speaker 1: Do and it's funny because WHEN i interviewed her For Annie,
Speaker 1: FAIR i just went through the things she had. Done.
Speaker 1: Right she had Been Attorney, general she had been you,
Speaker 1: know she had had all of these. Jobs she had
Speaker 1: been A da she had been the govern you, know
Speaker 1: she hadn't been the, governor but she had had she
Speaker 1: been a, Senator she had all these. Jobs she had
Speaker 1: been the first black woman in many of these jobs and.
Speaker 3: Had been successful at. Them of, course.
Speaker 1: Of course that you reckon with right and had gotten
Speaker 1: elected from each, job you, know and it just it didn't,
Speaker 1: Matter it didn't. MATTER i want to go back to
Speaker 1: this idea Of Thurgood marshall To. Thomas there's another thought
Speaker 1: experiment here which was so upsetting to, me but now
Speaker 1: it seems like really makes sense in, history which IS
Speaker 1: rbg to. Justice.
Speaker 5: Amy, yeah that's a, parallel that is, definitely you, know
Speaker 5: the relevant. Parallel SO i wonder when other organized women
Speaker 5: learned a lesson from organized black, people Because thomas had
Speaker 5: a lot of, support even from some traditional. GROUPS, sclc
Speaker 5: which Was Martin Luther king's, organization supported, him The nation Of,
Speaker 5: islam you, know The Black nationalists supported. Him so there
Speaker 5: was sort of across the board support and even those
Speaker 5: organizations that opposed, him like The National Bar association or THE.
Speaker 5: Naacp it was a big.
Speaker 3: Fight it was.
Speaker 5: Split but When Amy coley came, ALONG i think the
Speaker 5: women's community was a bit more unified in opposition Than African.
Speaker 5: Americans SO i do wonder whether the idea, that, well
Speaker 5: having a black person is better than having no black.
Speaker 5: Person we saw that that wasn't necessarily. True so it
Speaker 5: could be that women sort of learned a lesson from
Speaker 5: hoping that there's some internal woman that was going to
Speaker 5: jump out and suddenly repudiate all the things that made her,
Speaker 5: attractive you, know To trump in the first. Place that
Speaker 5: was never going to. Happen With Clarence, thomas it. Didn't,
Speaker 5: fortunately people seem to understand For amy Colly rant that
Speaker 5: that was. Unlikely at the end of the. Day of,
Speaker 5: course she still does her. Damage at the end of the,
Speaker 5: day her being on that court doesn't, Matter, yeah doesn't.
Speaker 5: Matter it really just helps to legitimize the anti woman
Speaker 5: agenda that's playing out.
Speaker 1: There right right, Right and you Have thomas doing the
Speaker 1: same with the same Right so, clearly like one of
Speaker 1: the big failings of second wave feminism was the inability
Speaker 1: to imagine that being woman was different for different groups of, people,
Speaker 1: right and that you would have different, challenges and that
Speaker 1: they and those different challenges would need different. Solutions now
Speaker 1: we're in a moment Where trump has really clearly there
Speaker 1: was a lot of progress. Coming So Donald, trump you,
Speaker 1: know became this sort of vehicle for a pushback of.
Speaker 1: Progress you don't get a backlash like this unless there's.
Speaker 3: Progress serious forward.
Speaker 1: Momentum, yeah so what do you think of the next? Move?
Speaker 3: Is, oh, gosh you, know people has me all the.
Speaker 5: Time so my standard response, is you, KNOW i can't call.
Speaker 5: IT i can't call it because we are we are
Speaker 5: living a history that we've lived before in, which you, know,
Speaker 5: like let's let's take. Reconstruction we had eight years a
Speaker 5: forward momentum towards really creating an inclusive. Democracy we had
Speaker 5: a retrenchment period that lasted seven.
Speaker 3: Decades Jesus, christ seven.
Speaker 5: Decades so you, know this is clearly a one to
Speaker 5: two steps forward twenty steps, back you, know kind of
Speaker 5: momentum that we've had in our. Society and the case
Speaker 5: that was just Decided wednesday is absolutely, devastating not only
Speaker 5: to The Voting Rights act, itself but to this idea
Speaker 5: that there are imperatives that came out of that movement
Speaker 5: that we still all sign on. To that that is
Speaker 5: actually what is disintegrating in front of our. Eyes and
Speaker 5: while that disintegration is. Happening there is ambivalence on the
Speaker 5: part of progressives about how much to fight for those in.
Speaker 5: Pair it where we can still say the words that
Speaker 5: we used to, Say.
Speaker 1: Like if you think About, mississippi, right that's a state
Speaker 1: that should have black senators or at least not white racist.
Speaker 1: SENATORS eli, right at the very. LEAST i, mean that's a,
Speaker 1: state is a, mean it's a majority block. State, yeah
Speaker 1: so what the fuck is going? On i'm, SORRY i
Speaker 1: don't mean to, curse but it's, just you, KNOW.
Speaker 5: I think those are appropriate words for this moment to
Speaker 5: tell you the.
Speaker 3: Truth you, know here's the shocking.
Speaker 5: Reality mississippi has always been a minority rule. State when
Speaker 5: we look at the former slave, states many of, states
Speaker 5: and clearly some of the sub political divisions were always
Speaker 5: about how to maintain power in white hands over and
Speaker 5: against majorities or near majorities of black. People what was
Speaker 5: so brilliant about The Voting Rights act is that it
Speaker 5: anticipated that that instinct to try to maintain control would
Speaker 5: find mechanisms and. Tactics as soon as one got struck,
Speaker 5: down they'd come up with another, one and another one
Speaker 5: and another.
Speaker 3: One what The Voting Rights act.
Speaker 5: Said is we're not going to outlaw or name any
Speaker 5: specific things that they can't. Do we're going to say
Speaker 5: that what you cannot do is undermine the voting power
Speaker 5: of these substantial. Populations and because of those, protections that's.
Speaker 3: Why we had so many elected.
Speaker 5: Officials that's why we had the ability of people In
Speaker 5: mississippi And louisiana to elect someone of their. Choice it
Speaker 5: is because of the effectiveness of The Voting Rights act
Speaker 5: that there was such a desire to get rid of.
Speaker 5: It as you AND i are talking right, now in those,
Speaker 5: states they've gotten the green light OR i like to,
Speaker 5: say you, know, yeha, boys let's go at.
Speaker 3: It and they're going at.
Speaker 5: It they're suspending, elections they're redrawing districts because they know
Speaker 5: that there's not a substantial pushback to the erasure of
Speaker 5: black political power and black. Presence that's what we've shown
Speaker 5: over the last two years that we're not going to
Speaker 5: the mat to fight over these. Things my only hope
Speaker 5: is that the devastation From calais impacts so many other
Speaker 5: interests that they're finally is this fire and desire to
Speaker 5: name the problem of racism and white supremacy and, Politics
Speaker 5: White christian nationalism in our cultural, politics and there comes
Speaker 5: out of that a commitment to fight. It but that's
Speaker 5: WHY i can't call it BECAUSE i look at some
Speaker 5: of my allies and it's almost the last thing they
Speaker 5: want to talk about rather than the first.
Speaker 1: Thing you really do see, that, like were you registering
Speaker 1: voters In? Mississippi this is a problem that should be
Speaker 1: solved by righting the wrong that is black voter, disenfranchisement, Right,
Speaker 1: like that's what, this you, know if you want to
Speaker 1: solve this, problem you solve this problem by registering those,
Speaker 1: voters and then you don't have any of these senators In.
Speaker 1: Mississippi you have the real people who live.
Speaker 5: There, well they can't vote an election in which they
Speaker 5: have an opportunity to actually elect someone of their choice
Speaker 5: because of all the gerrymandering and. Rigging we are told
Speaker 5: that to actually address that problem is to create the.
Speaker 5: Problem so addressing racism is racism. Itself they've been able
Speaker 5: to screw us with that framework for the last ten,
Speaker 5: years and now the chicken has really come home to.
Speaker 1: Roost thank, you thank, you thank, you thank.
Speaker 3: You this my, leasure.
Speaker 4: No, Moment.
Speaker 2: Jesse Canna, By we're just talking About Nancy mason the
Speaker 2: intro this. Podcast this is actually. Interesting she's pushed so
Speaker 2: that we have newly released documents that reveal we've paid
Speaker 2: out more than three hundred thousand dollars in taxpayer funded
Speaker 2: sexual harassment subtlements involving our.
Speaker 1: Wallmakers what are the interesting things happening right now, is
Speaker 1: even though we are in this moment of complete fuck
Speaker 1: right when it comes to our rights and The american,
Speaker 1: government there are small moves towards progress and it's. Wild
Speaker 1: so what's happened here is there are three women In
Speaker 1: congress who are complete, lunatics but who are focused on
Speaker 1: one good. Thing and they Are Nancy mays And Lauren
Speaker 1: beaupert And Appaulina, luna AND i would not trust them
Speaker 1: with anything except. This the three of them are working
Speaker 1: together to try to expose the culture of sexism and
Speaker 1: all of this sort of terrible stuff that is going
Speaker 1: on with women and sexual. Harassment and, look it's good
Speaker 1: that they're doing, it AND i think it's. GOOD i
Speaker 1: think you have to be really suspicious of whatever this
Speaker 1: crew is doing it with the exception of, THIS i
Speaker 1: actlutely think this is. Good So i'm really glad to
Speaker 1: see this, happening AND i think this is, good and,
Speaker 1: like there was a really good piece written about this
Speaker 1: By Annie karney and The New York. Times i'm a
Speaker 1: Big Annie karney. Fan she Covers congress really, well but
Speaker 1: she's also just it's a very nuanced thing to have
Speaker 1: members Of congress who are both for the good and
Speaker 1: also kind of. Kooky and so it's a really nuanced.
Speaker 1: Piece it's worth, reading and it's worth digesting that this
Speaker 1: is a sort of weird step forward for us As american.
Speaker 1: Women that's it for this episode Of Fast. Politics tune In, Monday, Wednesday,
Speaker 1: thursday And saturday to hear the best minds and politics
Speaker 1: make sense of all this. Chaos if you enjoy this,
Speaker 1: podcast please send it to a friend and keep the conversation.
Speaker 1: Going thanks for. Listening