Speaker 1: I'm Steve Carrell, and I played Michael Scott on The Office. Well,
Speaker 1: hello everyone, Yes it is time. It's the one you've
Speaker 1: been waiting for. I'm sure. Well. First of all, welcome
Speaker 1: to this week's episode of the Office Deep Dive. I
Speaker 1: am your host, Brian Baumgartner. I got ahead of myself.
Speaker 1: I could not be any more excited to present my
Speaker 1: guest today, Mr Steve Carrell. Now, Steve was the star
Speaker 1: of the two thousand seven comedy of an Almighty Alright, No,
Speaker 1: but I mean talk about someone who truly needs no introduction,
Speaker 1: which is probably a good thing, because there's literally no
Speaker 1: way that I could put into words just how incredible
Speaker 1: Steve is, even though it's like my job, my entire
Speaker 1: job is just to put things into words, and I
Speaker 1: clearly can't. Um, maybe this is the best way to
Speaker 1: explain it. During this conversation, the one you're about to hear,
Speaker 1: Steve basically said that it is so hard to talk
Speaker 1: about The Office without hyperbole. That he didn't want to
Speaker 1: be like it's the greatest or you know whatever, but honestly,
Speaker 1: that is how I feel about Steve. It's really hard
Speaker 1: to talk about Steve without hyperbole because He truly is
Speaker 1: the absolute greatest. I could go on forever, and I
Speaker 1: I kind of do in this conversation. So let me
Speaker 1: just say this. I hope you enjoy this just as
Speaker 1: much as I did. Here. He is the incomparable Steve
Speaker 1: Correll bubble Qui, I love it bubble Quigan or bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeaker cookie every month, lift over from the night before.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you that's so good? It's so good? God,
Speaker 1: I know I was just saved your producer. Yes, where
Speaker 1: do you you want me here? Oh my god? How
Speaker 1: was life? I mean, sorry, I'm late. I know, I
Speaker 1: literally just saw and I texted. I said, he's ten
Speaker 1: minutes late. But that's now. So um, are you still
Speaker 1: doing the thing where you because you bought the general store?
Speaker 1: Right is that's that's still your? Okay? So I was
Speaker 1: somewhere and New York or something and someone came up
Speaker 1: and had something for me to sign somewhere. They knew
Speaker 1: it clearly I was going to be and they had
Speaker 1: this thing, and I said, oh, you got you got Steve?
Speaker 1: I said, I don't. I don't normally see uh Steve,
Speaker 1: And he said, once a year, you do a day?
Speaker 1: Is this through your laughing. The year you do a
Speaker 1: day where you sign at the general store, well they
Speaker 1: every year this radio station does a little remote from
Speaker 1: the porch of the general store and just to promote
Speaker 1: the store, and my sister in law runs it, and
Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a festive kick off of
Speaker 1: summer thing. And I go and I do an interview
Speaker 1: with them on the porch, and like ten fift people
Speaker 1: would show up and watch it. And then if anyone,
Speaker 1: you know, if anyone wanted an autographer a picture, R's
Speaker 1: day and I do with that. So this guy claimed
Speaker 1: he stayed for hours it this last year was because
Speaker 1: there were a lot more people there, because I think
Speaker 1: with the office, I think the fact that I'm and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've talked a lot too many people about
Speaker 1: exactly that. But boy, in the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: that's changed, just that the tone of that has changed,
Speaker 1: that that little get together. I mean, you're very, very
Speaker 1: fancy movie star now, but much like how much is
Speaker 1: it for you now? The office still oh most of it,
Speaker 1: I mean that's right. Yeah. I um, I saw Creed
Speaker 1: and on Space Force. I'm working with a bunch of
Speaker 1: office and I think everyone feels that same sort of
Speaker 1: It's just odd. It's odd that when we were doing
Speaker 1: the show, and I'm sure you feel the same way,
Speaker 1: we're sort of in a vacuum. To a certain extent.
Speaker 1: I never got the sense that the show was a
Speaker 1: hit by any means, or it was popular enough to
Speaker 1: keep it on the air. But we didn't have people
Speaker 1: hanging outside the sound stages. Very rarely, occasionally we'd have
Speaker 1: a bogey stopped by, very very incredibly rare. Did that
Speaker 1: ever happen? So um, and we around in the middle
Speaker 1: of nowhere shooting the thing. So I think none of
Speaker 1: us got a sense that, which was great because then
Speaker 1: it was just about doing the show and having fun
Speaker 1: and bonding and and doing good work. Everyone was so
Speaker 1: committed to it. But yeah, these past couple of years,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you when I really noticed it was when
Speaker 1: I was taking my daughter to her college. We we
Speaker 1: did tours and and this was to two years ago. Now,
Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was as popular on
Speaker 1: college campuses that it seems to become. And it kind
Speaker 1: of freaked my daughter out a little bit because it
Speaker 1: became a bit of a thing. And you know, she
Speaker 1: was fine, but I think that was the first I mean,
Speaker 1: and that was just a couple of years ago, the
Speaker 1: first sense that I got that it it had changed,
Speaker 1: you know, that temperature had changed a bit. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, it's crazy because we were the
Speaker 1: number one scripted show on NBC for a long time.
Speaker 1: Were we were, but they had enough of any of it,
Speaker 1: They had nothing, I guess. Yeah, but but it's so
Speaker 1: much bigger now. Yeah, it's it's definitely changed and it's
Speaker 1: you know, how can you not be happy about that
Speaker 1: that people found it because I think when we were
Speaker 1: doing it, we all felt it was special. We all
Speaker 1: felt that there were there were elements of the show
Speaker 1: that I feel like people have they see it um
Speaker 1: more fully upon repeated viewing. Well, it was complex, and
Speaker 1: I think more more so than I think people assumed
Speaker 1: it was initially. I don't know. I don't want to
Speaker 1: tout it too much because that's the other thing. I
Speaker 1: don't want to sit back and say, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a classic, and it's this and that
Speaker 1: and that's why people love it. I I'm I'm surprised
Speaker 1: frankly that it had the second life that it seems
Speaker 1: to have and people have. We've talked about it. I've
Speaker 1: talked to Nancy about it, my wife about why, Well,
Speaker 1: for starters, why was it able to stay on the
Speaker 1: air in the first place, because it was a remake
Speaker 1: of a very heralded show and it did not get
Speaker 1: good reviews out of the block and everyone. I remember
Speaker 1: before I auditioned, I was talking to Paul Rudd and
Speaker 1: and I'd never seen the original one, and he asked
Speaker 1: what I was up to. This was around I think
Speaker 1: it was right after Anchor Man I was going to audition,
Speaker 1: and I told him I was going to audition for
Speaker 1: the American version of the Office, and he said, duc
Speaker 1: don't do it bad Dad, move dude. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: never going to be as good like what everybody was saying.
Speaker 1: So it's I think a miracle that it was that
Speaker 1: it even lasted, you know, that first second season. I
Speaker 1: mean it was like every we get two episodes, then
Speaker 1: they'd move it up to six episodes, so the orders
Speaker 1: weren't there was a lot of confidence in the show
Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah. My favorite review, there's a
Speaker 1: gentleman by the name of David bian Coolie. He wrote
Speaker 1: the following This is after the pilot where Ricky Gervais
Speaker 1: let the bosses insecurity shine through. Steve Carrell is all
Speaker 1: noise and stupidity, like a sketch comedy character, not a
Speaker 1: real person, not just foolish, but a fool. Yeah. He
Speaker 1: was never I mean, he was never a fan of
Speaker 1: the show. He never was. I know him. I don't
Speaker 1: know him personally, but I know I've read other things
Speaker 1: that he's written about the show, and it was I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know who he wrote for, but
Speaker 1: that was It wasn't just him. I think it was
Speaker 1: kind of that was pretty common. I think across the
Speaker 1: board there was not a lot of critical love for
Speaker 1: the show, which is interesting because I think we all
Speaker 1: just disagreed. I think we felt like we were onto
Speaker 1: something and it wasn't the British version, and it was
Speaker 1: something unto itself. It was based on all of the
Speaker 1: components that we're making it up. I think Greg daniels
Speaker 1: Man one of I think his great talents is choosing people,
Speaker 1: choosing people who have chemistry, both professionally and personally. Everybody
Speaker 1: got along, I mean every people. We loved each other
Speaker 1: on that show. I mean when I just walked in
Speaker 1: a Zoe, I felt like crying. It's it's it was
Speaker 1: such a special thing, I think to all of us,
Speaker 1: and I think we're all very protective of it. And
Speaker 1: you know, reviews, good, bad, it's it's okay totally. People
Speaker 1: have their own opinions and they're entitled to them, and
Speaker 1: I you can't take any of that too seriously. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I think we all had confidence
Speaker 1: that we were doing doing something good and doing something
Speaker 1: of value. From Diversity Day, I remember sitting in that
Speaker 1: conference room going, if people give this thing a shot,
Speaker 1: this is funny, and it's doing something different. It's looking
Speaker 1: at the world outside in an interesting and complex way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you how do you feel like the show reflected
Speaker 1: the outside world, you know, in terms of like Diversity
Speaker 1: Day or gay witch Hunt or well. Starting with the
Speaker 1: quality of our writing staff those first few seasons, especially
Speaker 1: before everyone became big deals and went off to their
Speaker 1: own shows, I mean, that's what happens. You get you
Speaker 1: get these great people like Mindy Kaling and Mike Sure,
Speaker 1: and we had a ton of them. We had a
Speaker 1: really really deep bench of writers. And when you have
Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are that funny and that's smart. Um.
Speaker 1: For me, the hardest part of it was servicing the script,
Speaker 1: making sure I didn't because I get I get dialogue
Speaker 1: every day and think, I, I can't screw this up
Speaker 1: because it and it and I knew it had to
Speaker 1: be delivered in in just the right way because or
Speaker 1: otherwise you're not servicing this great writing. So I think
Speaker 1: that I think and I think we all felt that
Speaker 1: there was a responsibility to get it right because the
Speaker 1: writer the writing was so consistent in terms of how
Speaker 1: it reflected society, but to do it in a way
Speaker 1: that wasn't too heavy handed and felt organic to what
Speaker 1: we were doing his characters. And that was the other
Speaker 1: great part of having Run. I mean, I was there
Speaker 1: for seven years. You were there for nine too, to
Speaker 1: be able to tracy evolution of a character and have
Speaker 1: something in mind and be able to talk to the
Speaker 1: writers and talk to Greg Daniels and say, what if
Speaker 1: next season my character went in this direction, and and
Speaker 1: then it happened. Um, And I think everyone trusted each
Speaker 1: other to such a such a degree that you know,
Speaker 1: that was pete that they were. They were willing to,
Speaker 1: you know, not be too precious about anything. And I
Speaker 1: think it became better because of that. Greg told me
Speaker 1: something I did not know this, Maybe you knew this,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously. One thing that he did that was
Speaker 1: unique was he sort of tried to obliterate the barriers
Speaker 1: between the writer's room and and the actors. And because
Speaker 1: he said, for him, this show was about behavior, and
Speaker 1: you can't right behavior. You can't write body posture, you
Speaker 1: can't write a specific look on your face, which I
Speaker 1: thought was so interesting. That's really smart. I know I
Speaker 1: never heard that, but it completely makes sense. And the
Speaker 1: fact that so many of the writers were actors on
Speaker 1: the show, not just watching. Another thing I liked was
Speaker 1: that when we were on set, it was pretty much
Speaker 1: just us and the camera crew and the director all
Speaker 1: the time, so it felt as close to what we
Speaker 1: were supposed to be doing. Um, you know, it was
Speaker 1: as close to doing a documentary without actually doing one
Speaker 1: as it could feel. But yeah, having writers there and
Speaker 1: seeing how the actor's work and maybe tweak a line
Speaker 1: or improvise and find something, and to have you know,
Speaker 1: to have Mindy, to have Paul, to have b j
Speaker 1: all there not just as actors but as fuel and
Speaker 1: and having incredible suggestions or ideas or or things to
Speaker 1: throw in rewrites. I mean, I don't know how much
Speaker 1: footage there is on the cutting room floor, but you
Speaker 1: could edit an entire season for sure, of of stories,
Speaker 1: whole storylines that were cut out that we're hilarious and
Speaker 1: we're just cut for time. I mean, our scripts were long,
Speaker 1: and our first cuts of things they had to be
Speaker 1: what twenty minutes, and they'd have thirty five minute cuts,
Speaker 1: their first cut, forty minute cuts. Sometimes they just split
Speaker 1: them in half and we'd have two shows. That happened
Speaker 1: a couple of times. Do you remember was there anything
Speaker 1: for you that you recall that was cut? People ask like,
Speaker 1: was there anything that was cut either a story or
Speaker 1: I mean, I there, No, I'm I don't. I just don't. No.
Speaker 1: I mean I would see things in there and think, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I remember, I remember we shot that. That's right, I know.
Speaker 1: I recently we went back and watched the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Claire Scanlin told me the story, which I certainly did
Speaker 1: not remember. But there was an episode where Jim and
Speaker 1: Pam are fighting, and the episode came in and it
Speaker 1: was really long, and someone had the idea, well, let's
Speaker 1: just make it a silent fight and it's just going
Speaker 1: to be about looks like we're not going to have them,
Speaker 1: We're gonna cut any exchange between the two of them,
Speaker 1: and the episode is just going to exist as a
Speaker 1: silent fight throughout the whole thing. And at the very end,
Speaker 1: just as they're walking out to their car, they hold
Speaker 1: hands and it just like flips the whole thing, but
Speaker 1: the entire story that had been written and was just gone.
Speaker 1: That's such a great That's a great move though, and
Speaker 1: probably so much more powerful than all the dialogue they
Speaker 1: could have said, you know, because that that passive, aggressive,
Speaker 1: that subtle silent between couples can speak volumes. Not that
Speaker 1: I would have any personal knowledge of that. I'm just
Speaker 1: saying as a writer an actor. Um, but yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a great move. And I think they did stuff like
Speaker 1: that all the time. You know, those editors, We had
Speaker 1: some great, great people, and so much of the story
Speaker 1: obviously is told there, and I felt like our job
Speaker 1: was just to supply them with as much fodder for
Speaker 1: whatever it was going to become. But I didn't get
Speaker 1: precious about anything, because I just knew again it's just
Speaker 1: a matter of trust. I trusted Greg and Dave and
Speaker 1: Claire and I trusted everyone in the cast and all
Speaker 1: of those writers. That's such a great environment to work
Speaker 1: in when you just know, do your job and they're
Speaker 1: going to take it and crafted into something that works.
Speaker 1: And I think everyone did that everyone. So the level
Speaker 1: I don't think what people no necessarily is that as much,
Speaker 1: if not more than anything I've ever worked on. The
Speaker 1: universal level of commitment on that show, across the board, actors, writers, crew,
Speaker 1: people were in and it's rare, but I think we
Speaker 1: all sensed it, we all knew And it's not like
Speaker 1: the show. We we were never a friends, we were
Speaker 1: never We were always sort of the the outcast, you know,
Speaker 1: the little engine for sure, and we got those kind
Speaker 1: of reviews we never you know, there were never articles
Speaker 1: written about the office back then. But I personally so
Speaker 1: proud of the fact that, in spite of all of
Speaker 1: the negativity that I think kind of surrounded it, at
Speaker 1: least at first, that group was completely committed a hundred.
Speaker 1: I I feel like we all sort of it was
Speaker 1: like we came up together, which which helped us form
Speaker 1: a very unique bond. I completely agree the relationships between
Speaker 1: all of us um and again doing this other show
Speaker 1: that I'm doing now. Just being able to work with
Speaker 1: you know, five six, seven people that I had worked
Speaker 1: with for seven years, what fifteen years ago? It just
Speaker 1: try it just goes from one thing to the other
Speaker 1: because there is there is that commonality, there is that
Speaker 1: that sense of we we came up together. It's so
Speaker 1: hard to talk about it without hyperbole, too, because I
Speaker 1: find myself like, it's the great you know. I don't
Speaker 1: want to I don't want to touted too much. I
Speaker 1: don't want to put too much emphasis on how how
Speaker 1: great we all think it was. But I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: people can judge whatever the show is and how are
Speaker 1: they like it, and they'll upon repeated viewings, they you know,
Speaker 1: if they find all of this stuff in it, and
Speaker 1: that is great. But from a personal perspective, having worked
Speaker 1: on it was the joy like having these friendships and
Speaker 1: that work experience. I knew when I was doing it
Speaker 1: that this was going it. Nothing was going to be
Speaker 1: better than this as a work experience. I didn't know
Speaker 1: whether it would be the best thing I'd ever be
Speaker 1: a part of, or I knew it would be hard
Speaker 1: to top, certainly, But but just in terms of a
Speaker 1: personal experience and the rewards from that, nothing will ever
Speaker 1: come close to it. Yeah, And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: for me, certainly, I don't want to go into hyperbole either,
Speaker 1: but I think trying to at least examine the question
Speaker 1: of why, you know, we were so close. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: because we came up together. And to me, the the
Speaker 1: other element was we had such a wide range of experience,
Speaker 1: you know, like and myself, for example, we were like
Speaker 1: doing check off the month before, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: like that and improv and stand up and sort of
Speaker 1: all of those experiences. Bill has told me the story.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I don't know if you've ever heard this.
Speaker 1: She got cast. She came in and she was watching
Speaker 1: everybody improv and she said, I can't do that. So
Speaker 1: the first season she went on her way home, drove
Speaker 1: to the bookstore and bought books on improv, and we're
Speaker 1: reading books she did. I never knew that. I'd never
Speaker 1: do that either. That's shocking to me because I always
Speaker 1: thought she was so pure, so good, like one of
Speaker 1: the best improvisers of any of us, because it was
Speaker 1: everything was completely honest, and she just listened and she
Speaker 1: would just respond within character. That's what it is, you know,
Speaker 1: that's that's the crux of it. Wow that I I
Speaker 1: think all those things you say are true. I think
Speaker 1: the fact that Greg was able to cast people that
Speaker 1: it's just the chemistry was there. People genuinely cared about
Speaker 1: each other because there were there were times that people
Speaker 1: would be in the background for hours and just be
Speaker 1: seen like in profile, while other scenes were taking place
Speaker 1: in the foreground. And I never ever heard one complaint
Speaker 1: by anyone. You know, it was to me, it was
Speaker 1: the true definition of an ensemble. More than anything. I
Speaker 1: think that's why it worked is because there were no
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone wanted to stick out in any way.
Speaker 1: I think everyone just felt a joy in being part
Speaker 1: of that unit. When we come back, our executive producer
Speaker 1: Ben Silverman joins our unit for a conversation about the
Speaker 1: structure of the show and a little thing called the
Speaker 1: director sandwich. I was talking to a couple of people
Speaker 1: just about I had a French director I worked with
Speaker 1: for a while that he taught me that the comedy
Speaker 1: exists off the beat. It happens either quicker or it
Speaker 1: takes longer that that pause. But did you never land
Speaker 1: it right on the beat? I feel like our show
Speaker 1: did really well on that. There was you know, for example,
Speaker 1: a bad joke that then you get a reaction from Jim,
Speaker 1: that then you get a reaction from somebody, and the
Speaker 1: laugh could go sort of at any place. And there
Speaker 1: was a lot going on between the lines there, and
Speaker 1: the writers were aware of that. They were aware of
Speaker 1: the pauses. They were aware of like at the end
Speaker 1: of it it was Office Olympics. There's a scene We're
Speaker 1: all getting our ten awards and the yogurt. The yogurt,
Speaker 1: and I remember that turned into a really emotional moment
Speaker 1: from Michael Scott because someone was giving him an award
Speaker 1: and it was important in that moment, And I was
Speaker 1: talking to Greg about this, and I don't think any
Speaker 1: of us realized until we started doing it that that
Speaker 1: scene was going to have that sort of emotional and
Speaker 1: comedic residence because it wasn't scripted. It was just this
Speaker 1: moment where Jim looks at Michael and realizes this is
Speaker 1: a big deal, and Michael starts to cry out of
Speaker 1: joy and pride, and it it turned into something very different.
Speaker 1: And I think part of the for for my character,
Speaker 1: part of the trick was to not let on where
Speaker 1: the jokes were because Michael generally wouldn't He wouldn't know,
Speaker 1: he wouldn't have an awareness that anything he was saying
Speaker 1: was funny unless he was trying to be funny. So
Speaker 1: to try to mask the absurdity of the line within
Speaker 1: somebody just believing it and not commenting on it as
Speaker 1: an actor while you say it, not not leaning into
Speaker 1: the joke of the line. I think that was something
Speaker 1: that was really tricky. Did the production style help you
Speaker 1: do that? For sure? The way the way that that
Speaker 1: it wasn't is the production style helped everything, um, because
Speaker 1: there wasn't that. It wasn't intricate. The lighting took five
Speaker 1: minutes and we all looked terrible all the time, so
Speaker 1: there was no vanity involved me. That's why the networks
Speaker 1: didn't like it. Probably we all looked like real people
Speaker 1: and we were up. We came out of the bay
Speaker 1: Watch age, you know, we were like we were born
Speaker 1: of the last part. We were not. But to kind
Speaker 1: of throw away all the vanity too was very you know,
Speaker 1: that was great because no one was worried about getting
Speaker 1: touched up all the time. We were just kind of
Speaker 1: in our character is in doing our thing, and that
Speaker 1: not what the show is predicated on, and so in
Speaker 1: that sense, I think it felt more like a documentary
Speaker 1: to Linda. Authenticity and reality and then the performance, I
Speaker 1: mean the other level, just the camera as a character,
Speaker 1: as an entirely other layer of comedy that doesn't exist
Speaker 1: even if you're just playing out a scene. In other words,
Speaker 1: your awareness as a character. You have your own behavior
Speaker 1: and your intention with this character, but you also are
Speaker 1: either playing to the camera or hiding from the camera.
Speaker 1: It's been the bane of my existence since I've left
Speaker 1: thee Yeah, I'm sure I revert to the other two
Speaker 1: in everything I've done since the office. At least once,
Speaker 1: I will inadvertently do a take to the camera and
Speaker 1: I do it, and then I think, why did I
Speaker 1: just do that? I do too. I mean, obviously we
Speaker 1: can't use it because we're not doing it documentary here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you just break that walk. But it's such a weird
Speaker 1: it's a havoc do you do with the family, and
Speaker 1: it's almost impossible to break. I'm sure on Fox Catcher
Speaker 1: I did a take to the camera, well, maybe not appropriated.
Speaker 1: Did you say this or did Greg say this to you?
Speaker 1: There was some discussion about the essence of Michael Scott
Speaker 1: playing to the camera was Michael believing that if he
Speaker 1: did a really good job, that maybe Jennifer Anniston would
Speaker 1: go out with him. Do you remember that, I don't
Speaker 1: don't actually remember. Sounds good. Somebody said that, like the
Speaker 1: early one, I can't remember if it was beguiling the
Speaker 1: camera gets discovered, but you think you're funny, you think
Speaker 1: you're charming, you put your foot in it, but you
Speaker 1: think that you're like, oh, wasn't that a good one? Subtext? Yeah, exactly. Um.
Speaker 1: You know who I think was the one of the
Speaker 1: best right off the bat was Amy Adams. I remember
Speaker 1: when she came in to do her first episode because
Speaker 1: it's it's sort of a tricky thing that looked to
Speaker 1: the camera and and how hard you play it or
Speaker 1: how subtly you play it, but she had it down.
Speaker 1: I remember that first episode. She because she was aware
Speaker 1: of the camera, but she played it in a very
Speaker 1: different way, like because she was an outsider. She didn't
Speaker 1: do there like did you just record what I just said?
Speaker 1: There's like I'd forgotten that you're there, and now I
Speaker 1: know you're there, and there's like all this other stuff
Speaker 1: going on. So the camera. Yeah, the camera really you
Speaker 1: could always use it, you know, and it was for
Speaker 1: Michael it was free reign, you know, because he could
Speaker 1: always be on and when the camera was documenting things
Speaker 1: that were more vulnerable that he didn't want the camera
Speaker 1: to see. Uh, you know, you could show the fragility
Speaker 1: of the character as well, and not wanting to be
Speaker 1: captured or kind of assuming a different character to cover
Speaker 1: the fragility that you know, was intrinsic to him. So
Speaker 1: that camera as a character added I think a depth
Speaker 1: to all of the characters. It's a reflection I think
Speaker 1: of what you want the public to see as opposed
Speaker 1: to what is the reality of the situation or the
Speaker 1: reality of the person. The layering of of all of that. Also,
Speaker 1: as you were talking, I was thinking one of the
Speaker 1: things that's so arresting now when you go into our
Speaker 1: show in the world digitally of a thousand shows, and
Speaker 1: you just see we feel black and white, you know,
Speaker 1: we feel almost spa and like analog, you know, and
Speaker 1: all of that, and yet it has so much more
Speaker 1: of an honesty and connectivity. But I think what that
Speaker 1: does is it frames the performance and that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: It lets the face and the performance and the pathos
Speaker 1: and the comedy. I'll play through character because it's not
Speaker 1: the bells and whistles and everything jumping around. So much
Speaker 1: of that was just the ensemble nature of it too,
Speaker 1: that it's like it's like a great it's like an orchestra,
Speaker 1: you know, there to know when to fade back and
Speaker 1: allow the brass section to go, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: their soul, where it's the violins or it's it's such
Speaker 1: a stupid analogy, but allowing everyone to shine and everyone
Speaker 1: to have their moment. I didn't feel like there were
Speaker 1: all these separate components bouncing off each other. It was
Speaker 1: like this one group energy that moved through all of
Speaker 1: those years together and and it morphed into different shapes,
Speaker 1: but it was all We couldn't lose any components of
Speaker 1: that because it morphed as a whole. It was a
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe that's getting too deep into it,
Speaker 1: but but that's the way I felt about that ensemble,
Speaker 1: is that everyone was so strong and so vital to
Speaker 1: the life of the whole thing. The show could shift
Speaker 1: on a dime based on one thing that one character introduces,
Speaker 1: and it might be it might be a line that
Speaker 1: was scripted. It might have been something improvised, but everyone
Speaker 1: else would shift with it and you could feel it,
Speaker 1: you know, well like being a good interviewer on the radio.
Speaker 1: You can tell there's a give and take and allowing
Speaker 1: for space, and it's a it's a real talent, it's
Speaker 1: a real ability. And I think all of that cast
Speaker 1: had that same ability to sense where it was all going,
Speaker 1: where next? And it was that was so exciting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's funny too because people talk, and which is all
Speaker 1: true about the ensemble expanding as time went on and
Speaker 1: we got into more stories of other characters, and other
Speaker 1: characters were able to shine, that's true. And pretty much
Speaker 1: everybody did something in Diverse any Day, which is the
Speaker 1: second episode, and you know almost everybody has a joke
Speaker 1: or a moment um. It was being built early and
Speaker 1: I think Ken and Greg those guys, um, do you
Speaker 1: remember the U thirty minutes of busy work, oh early on? Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's so his thing, right down to how he
Speaker 1: starts to see. He doesn't say action. He says go
Speaker 1: ahead in the most in the most calm inviting way,
Speaker 1: go ahead. Yeah, I will say, like to give him ship.
Speaker 1: It becomes funny to me because he has the it's
Speaker 1: not just to go ahead, it's the uh go ahead
Speaker 1: like he like he always pretends as though he's about
Speaker 1: to say something, and then what you know, after the time,
Speaker 1: you go, man, you're not. You can't fool me anymore.
Speaker 1: We ever talked about the director Sandwich? No, have you
Speaker 1: ever heard of this? I don't know where I heard
Speaker 1: this from, but it is like clockwork. It is the
Speaker 1: experience I've had on every show with every director, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've had the same experience. Okay, director Sandwich, Sandwich,
Speaker 1: the director Sandwich. The first layer of bread is the
Speaker 1: first compliment. Director comes in, it's going great. We love it.
Speaker 1: Everybody back there loves what you're doing. The meat or
Speaker 1: the filling is the note. Maybe you could pick it
Speaker 1: up and um and maybe a little more touch of energy.
Speaker 1: And the last piece of bread is the second compliment.
Speaker 1: But we love it. You're doing great. Just do what
Speaker 1: you're doing and we're just have fun. Every director does
Speaker 1: exactly this. Just I mean, as soon as that's in
Speaker 1: your head, you will always be aware of that. Now
Speaker 1: like oh okay, now, where where is this? What is
Speaker 1: the meat here? What is the note? The producer, sandwich
Speaker 1: is no meat? Great job you do? You do you? Ever?
Speaker 1: This is sort of off topic, but it's now. It's
Speaker 1: fascinating to me when you're in a scene and you
Speaker 1: get the first layer of bread, Great job, really really
Speaker 1: doing well, um, Dave, and then turns to the other guy, right,
Speaker 1: and there's a there's a part of you that's like,
Speaker 1: wasn't me? Was everything I must be doing okay? And
Speaker 1: then they give the meat to Dave and then there's
Speaker 1: but you know, it's really it's really working well, and
Speaker 1: then it's take two. Director comes back again. Great job, Dave, Right, Yes,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about. I've been Dave before. Sure,
Speaker 1: I have been Dave. We all don't want to be Dave,
Speaker 1: but we have all been Dad. But it's almost worse
Speaker 1: when you're not Dave. But it's even worse than that
Speaker 1: is when you are taking a scene and then you're
Speaker 1: seeing partner, when you're trying to get it going again
Speaker 1: and try to figure out how you're gonna save your
Speaker 1: lousy performance. You're seen partner in a very gracious and
Speaker 1: lovely way, says, is there anything I can do to help?
Speaker 1: Anything I can do from my side? Like, oh no,
Speaker 1: now now I'm really gave oh day, and they're just
Speaker 1: being nice. Can I give you something to give you
Speaker 1: something more than I'm giving so your performance is adequate
Speaker 1: And we come back Steve and I kicked Ben out
Speaker 1: of the studio to get into the true psyche of
Speaker 1: Michael Scott. There there's a question I've never asked you.
Speaker 1: This is my memory at least going back right. You
Speaker 1: remember the differently and we would have a seven eight
Speaker 1: page conference room scene and we would come into rehearse
Speaker 1: and you would like kind of flip through your pages
Speaker 1: and you weren't playing a part like the absent minded professor,
Speaker 1: but my that this was like my right, It was
Speaker 1: just like, oh wait, what are we here? How okay,
Speaker 1: I'm standing in the front of like the idea of
Speaker 1: like you had no idea what was going on? And
Speaker 1: we would do it once maybe and be like okay,
Speaker 1: do we have it? Okay? Good, and you would go
Speaker 1: away and it was like you would finish putting on
Speaker 1: your suit and then we would start rolling and it
Speaker 1: was all there was that intentional for you, was there? No?
Speaker 1: I mean, but I mean, like, were you like in retrospect,
Speaker 1: I started thinking, oh, as an improver, he wants it
Speaker 1: to be as fresh as possible. Though at times and
Speaker 1: also got annoying that you were attempting to bring the
Speaker 1: group to a place where like you were trying to
Speaker 1: make them laugh. It was that intentional. Was that sometimes
Speaker 1: I think we all tried to make each other last.
Speaker 1: Of course, um in turn, boy to me, there's nothing
Speaker 1: more boring than listening to myself talk about process. But
Speaker 1: but that's there. But I'm truly curious. I will tell well,
Speaker 1: just based on the page count every day, and and
Speaker 1: also on how quickly lines changed, we could have rewrites
Speaker 1: the morning up. So I just didn't have time to
Speaker 1: memorize stuff the night before because they'd be you go
Speaker 1: home and after yeah, I go to bed and wake
Speaker 1: up and and be in the next day and and
Speaker 1: sort of get into that day's work. But I think
Speaker 1: it became fairly easy to remember stuff because of the
Speaker 1: right because I think they tuned into every character's voice,
Speaker 1: and they really wrote the dialogue within those voices, and
Speaker 1: it is infinitely easier to remember lines when they make
Speaker 1: sense within your character. So sometimes I would just have
Speaker 1: to look at these long, chunky scenes and I put
Speaker 1: the blocks together in terms of Okay, where are you know,
Speaker 1: where are kind of our joke beats, and where are
Speaker 1: you know where our story beats? And and what's shoe leather?
Speaker 1: And and just kind of trying to process that and
Speaker 1: then then not think about it, just kind of trying
Speaker 1: to lock in the structure of it and then just
Speaker 1: play the scene. And that was the joy of of
Speaker 1: how loose it all was when we got in there
Speaker 1: to shoot, too, because we'd have two cameras covering everything.
Speaker 1: If you got something well, once you got it from
Speaker 1: two separate angles, you have cutting points. You know, an
Speaker 1: editor's dream really, because everything was covered at least by
Speaker 1: two cameras. There was never oh, so and so said
Speaker 1: something funny, but it was you know, it was a
Speaker 1: single on somebody else, and then to try to go
Speaker 1: back and recreate whatever it happened. They were picking up
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff and so when things things happen
Speaker 1: in real time, generally they were able to get it
Speaker 1: um So there's a comfort in that too, knowing that
Speaker 1: it's not like you were going to have to generate
Speaker 1: it many many times over, and you could make every
Speaker 1: take different. You didn't have to necessarily match what you
Speaker 1: did the first time you could play with it, and
Speaker 1: as actors, we could all throw stuff in and and
Speaker 1: try it different, you know, beat for the ending or
Speaker 1: um try some you know, some different dialogue. But in
Speaker 1: terms of yeah, those those long scenes, I just I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to waste anybody's time either, because if
Speaker 1: I had fumfered through all of those things, and I
Speaker 1: tried to put enough pressure on myself to lock into it,
Speaker 1: you know, and try to not make everybody stay for
Speaker 1: because I can't remember the big speech at the end
Speaker 1: of the thing. Yeah, yeah, but that's part of it.
Speaker 1: I mean, just just out of respect for everybody. Of course,
Speaker 1: of course that was always just very impressive. That's it.
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not no, I'm not saying anything nice, um,
Speaker 1: but but no, it was. I often wondered about that.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rain Wilson, Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1: The two of you together was so stupid, so so stupid,
Speaker 1: but so funny. I recently went back and watched, I
Speaker 1: went start to finish. I hadn't gone back at all
Speaker 1: since they aired, And just the dynamic between the two
Speaker 1: of you, it's like when you're in grade school and
Speaker 1: there's the cool kids, right, the Ryan and Jim, and
Speaker 1: you want to be friends with them, and then you've
Speaker 1: got the kind of slightly more nerdy friend of yours
Speaker 1: that wants to be when you're like, just call me
Speaker 1: after school. You don't play with you later because I'm
Speaker 1: trying to get in. I don't know. There was just
Speaker 1: something about the dynamic between you two. He called you
Speaker 1: a Picasso of improv. Oh my gosh, but I mean, well,
Speaker 1: he you know, I remember auditioning with rain and we
Speaker 1: instantly we're making each other laugh, like right from the start.
Speaker 1: And I'll crack up as much as anyone, but I
Speaker 1: try not to because I always feel like if I laugh,
Speaker 1: it's going to ruin that whatever they're doing is so funny,
Speaker 1: and if I crack up, it's unusable. But there there
Speaker 1: are there are times that I'm sure you can watch
Speaker 1: the show and just see tears welling in my eyes.
Speaker 1: That was one of the hardest That was one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things was to not you know, to not
Speaker 1: lose it. Raindom. He's such an interesting, just an interesting
Speaker 1: human being. He's he's such a kind, he's such a
Speaker 1: dichotomy because he is he's an incredibly loving and kind
Speaker 1: and gentle, like cares, truly, truly care, someone who cares
Speaker 1: about the universe in a far reaching way, and a
Speaker 1: much much better person than I am. But at the
Speaker 1: same time the biggest mudgeon like crass, rude, rudinous, rude,
Speaker 1: like unfiltered honesty, and yes, just gross sexual for no reason.
Speaker 1: But gosh, he's He's a great guy. And there's a
Speaker 1: scene towards the end when Dwight reads the letter of
Speaker 1: reference from Michael Scott that just puts a pretty fine
Speaker 1: point on their relationship after all of the stuff that
Speaker 1: Michael has put Dwight through. At his core, he just
Speaker 1: he he loves he loves him and appreciates him, and
Speaker 1: understands how loyal he had been that entire time, and
Speaker 1: had for the greater part of the series, had really
Speaker 1: been his only advocate, and my iCal for sure understood
Speaker 1: that he didn't make He might have resented it. He
Speaker 1: White might have wanted more. You know, he could be
Speaker 1: very petty and immature, but but at the same time,
Speaker 1: in that moment, you know certainly acknowledges how important White
Speaker 1: is to him. Do you, as an actor, do you
Speaker 1: always search for the good and the character that you're portraying. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think you have to because otherwise you're just demonizing
Speaker 1: or judging the people that you're playing. And if you're
Speaker 1: judging a character that you're playing, you're gonna play it differently.
Speaker 1: You don't want to editorialize about a character plan I think.
Speaker 1: I think Michael's a decent a decent dude with a
Speaker 1: lot of heart. But he's so based on his childhood,
Speaker 1: based on all sorts of things and things that he
Speaker 1: had lacked growing up, things that he was I felt
Speaker 1: he was deprived of. He was so hungry forks sceptence,
Speaker 1: but I don't think he had the strongest templates in
Speaker 1: the world to go by. But I think he also
Speaker 1: learned and evolved and um became a better person along
Speaker 1: the way. And he was just a bit a bit
Speaker 1: myopic and became more aware once he sort of was
Speaker 1: able to start stepping outside of himself and his own
Speaker 1: little eccentricities, he could see a little bit more about
Speaker 1: the world around him. I think one of the things
Speaker 1: about Michael is he's actually this and in terms of
Speaker 1: my interpretation of him, I feel like he would look
Speaker 1: out at all the people who worked with him, and
Speaker 1: it's like he would put his foot in his mouth
Speaker 1: all the time. But in a lot of ways, I
Speaker 1: don't think he ever valued one person or type of
Speaker 1: person over any other. And in that way, I think
Speaker 1: he was very pure character, because he's very dumb in
Speaker 1: terms of political correctness and being appropriate in public. But
Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't I just don't think
Speaker 1: there was hardness in his heart towards anyone. He I
Speaker 1: think a person with an enormously good, kind heart, who
Speaker 1: lacked a great deal of information about the world around him,
Speaker 1: and was as a sleep in a woke world as
Speaker 1: you could be, but trying his best, trying his best.
Speaker 1: And actually there's a difference between being intolerant and being ignorant,
Speaker 1: and and sometimes intolerance and ignorance go hand in hand,
Speaker 1: for sure they do. But I think he was a
Speaker 1: decent human being. Really, he just didn't get it all
Speaker 1: the time. Um, the show was happening my mom and dad,
Speaker 1: they had friends and they would say, we can't watch
Speaker 1: that show like that, Michael Scott. He key makes me
Speaker 1: too uncomfortable. I can't watch that. And I always felt
Speaker 1: that this was came from a place of deep insecurity
Speaker 1: or like misogynistic or racist or homophobic feelings within themselves,
Speaker 1: like that's why it was uncomfortable at times. And then
Speaker 1: you came out thanks a lot for saying this. I
Speaker 1: get asked about it all the time that the show
Speaker 1: could never be made now. This was not exactly what
Speaker 1: I said. Okay, well, that's great, because I have always
Speaker 1: said that I thought that Steve was misquoted in this.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it could be
Speaker 1: made now. Maybe it could. I guess my point was
Speaker 1: that I think what I was trying to say was
Speaker 1: that that exact same show probably wouldn't be made today,
Speaker 1: but with the same components, the same actors, the same writers.
Speaker 1: If it were to come back, it would evolve into
Speaker 1: the version of what we did back then. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the writing would be a bit different in
Speaker 1: today's climate, but I don't think it would be any
Speaker 1: less insightful. I don't think it would be any less
Speaker 1: smart or any less funny. It would just be different,
Speaker 1: that's all. And I do think it would be different,
Speaker 1: and I think, I mean, Michael Scott would be much
Speaker 1: more tuned into what it is to be woke. He
Speaker 1: would not understand it necessarily, but he would be the
Speaker 1: comedy would be coming from his struggle to understand and
Speaker 1: fit into the world as we know it today, because
Speaker 1: the world as we knew it fifteen years ago is
Speaker 1: different than it is today. But you know, you take
Speaker 1: that same character who is trying to speak the language
Speaker 1: of modern times, that can be very funny, but it
Speaker 1: would just be different. It would just be a different
Speaker 1: set of rules for today. But I don't know, I um,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think it's easy to say
Speaker 1: that you can't be funny, you can't do comedy this
Speaker 1: day and age. I think that's a bit of a
Speaker 1: cop out because every you know, every time you turn around,
Speaker 1: there is somebody coming up with something that is of
Speaker 1: the time and inventive and doesn't shirk away from our
Speaker 1: responsibility to look in the mirror. I think it just
Speaker 1: I think it just takes a level of intelligence to
Speaker 1: be able to do that. Yeah, here's my other theory,
Speaker 1: just in terms of like why the show is so
Speaker 1: popular today and especially with younger people and me going
Speaker 1: back and watching it, and it doesn't feel dated. And
Speaker 1: Greg was so adamant about the realistic elements of the
Speaker 1: way people looked and that it felt lived in and
Speaker 1: the way that it shot, I feel like it maybe
Speaker 1: subconsciously people are they obviously no, it's not a documentary,
Speaker 1: but that it's just about this time in this place. Well,
Speaker 1: I think it's because of what you said before. It's
Speaker 1: about behavior. It's about human behavior, and human behavior is
Speaker 1: pretty universal and doesn't change a whole lot. You know,
Speaker 1: the question has gone around so often about why the
Speaker 1: resurgence and popularity? Why is it? Why does it seem
Speaker 1: to be more popular now than it was back then?
Speaker 1: But beyond that, why do twelve and thirteen year olds
Speaker 1: and ten year olds? Why do they like it? That
Speaker 1: was always a shock to make. Shocker because when we
Speaker 1: were making the show, I thought, well, people who have
Speaker 1: worked in an office environment have a context. I can
Speaker 1: get it. I you know, I think they'd have something
Speaker 1: that they could find in here. But the fact that
Speaker 1: not only I mean not even teenagers, but like like preteens.
Speaker 1: Apparently Billie Eilish is a big fan and has been
Speaker 1: for years, and I got a note from her and
Speaker 1: we've corresponded a little bit, and it's shocking that you know,
Speaker 1: the this gener at god, I sound like I'm eighty
Speaker 1: years old, but these younger generations, and it almost seems
Speaker 1: to have been passed down from their older siblings too.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't, but you know, I try
Speaker 1: not to even question it too much because it's a
Speaker 1: miracle that the show still gets the kind of attention
Speaker 1: that it does. I don't when is when are people
Speaker 1: going to get sick of it? Like? When? When? When
Speaker 1: does the shoe drop? And then it's just when does
Speaker 1: the backlash start? That's my question is that when when
Speaker 1: when this comes out? Probably actually know it's the week before,
Speaker 1: the week before. It's just done, you know what. I
Speaker 1: just we all were so lucky. I think that permeates
Speaker 1: the whole vibe of the show too, because we knew
Speaker 1: we were all hanging by a thread and we were
Speaker 1: just going to enjoy it, and no one there was
Speaker 1: no cockiness at all, no air against Everybody was just
Speaker 1: happy to be employed and working with this group and
Speaker 1: kind of clinging to each other because we also knew
Speaker 1: that this is a once in a lifetime conglomeration of
Speaker 1: people and let's enjoy it. I mean, as an actor,
Speaker 1: to have an experience like that, you know, we're lucky
Speaker 1: if we just get to work and and get paid
Speaker 1: and make a living. Come on, that's like, that's all
Speaker 1: any of us wanted. That's the other thing that I
Speaker 1: think was baseline for everyone on that show. Really all
Speaker 1: we wanted to do was make livings as actors. No,
Speaker 1: I think no one aspired to anything beyond that, and
Speaker 1: so there was complete contentment in in what we had there.
Speaker 1: But I would add to that that that is what
Speaker 1: people wanted, was to make a living as an actor.
Speaker 1: And at the same time that we felt so lucky
Speaker 1: that we were actually able to make a living on
Speaker 1: something that was actually good that people cared about that
Speaker 1: then took it to like completely agree. I, um, you
Speaker 1: you you haven't died. Okay, I'm just gonna say that.
Speaker 1: And it's very difficult for me to be over overly nice,
Speaker 1: but there is something that that I need you to
Speaker 1: hear that. Um, when Michael left and you left, you
Speaker 1: left at the same time, weird coincided. It was so bizarre.
Speaker 1: It's like, where's Michael Steve left earlier today? But um,
Speaker 1: it needs to be acknowledged that, you know, for us,
Speaker 1: Michael Scott was an amazing creation, but you were equally special.
Speaker 1: That's really nice of you to say, Um, well, it was.
Speaker 1: It was a special group and to find that dynamic,
Speaker 1: you know, actors, a TV show, you know, throwing all
Speaker 1: of that aside, just to have a group of people
Speaker 1: that you care so much about and and you can't
Speaker 1: wait to see the next day. I tend to do
Speaker 1: that though. Rear wise, I tend to leave. And I've
Speaker 1: done this a few times. I left Second City when
Speaker 1: it just was it was the best job in the world.
Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine it being any better. I was having
Speaker 1: the most fun of my life. I gotta go. I
Speaker 1: gotta go because I don't want to get comfortable. And
Speaker 1: I did the same thing on the Daily Show. I
Speaker 1: was there for four years or so, and okay, this
Speaker 1: is perfect. And Nancy, my wife, we're both correspondents, this
Speaker 1: is fantastic, love it. We're having a ball, and we
Speaker 1: both decided up, I gotta go, you know, we get
Speaker 1: let's just keep it moving on. And and I sort
Speaker 1: of did the same thing on the Office, like it
Speaker 1: like you don't want it to and maybe it's maybe
Speaker 1: it's out of fear. Maybe maybe it's like you don't
Speaker 1: want it to turn a corner in any way. You
Speaker 1: don't want it to be any in any way less
Speaker 1: than it ever was. Um, So maybe that's maybe that's
Speaker 1: something about me that you know, I should examine, see
Speaker 1: somebody about. But it's so so. Maybe it's a defense
Speaker 1: mechanism that way. But I was just so proud to
Speaker 1: be part of it, and it was very difficult for
Speaker 1: me to leave, um because I loved everybody. Um. I
Speaker 1: didn't start by asking this because it didn't occur to me.
Speaker 1: And then people started talking, and I've been asking people
Speaker 1: what was the greater loss? Was it Steve or was
Speaker 1: it Michael Scott? And two stories have come up a
Speaker 1: number of times. One I haven't heard. I want to
Speaker 1: share this with you, Mike Sure. Um he said this.
Speaker 1: There was a budgetary meeting and they were trying to
Speaker 1: slash budget because they were always trying to slash the budget,
Speaker 1: and one of the things on the table was reducing
Speaker 1: the size of the cast. I can't remember who was there,
Speaker 1: but there were executives in the room and Steve, who
Speaker 1: was a producer at the time, said nope, nope, nope, no, no,
Speaker 1: Like he said no eight times in a row, it's
Speaker 1: not happening. That is not going to happen, and it
Speaker 1: just shut it down, shut it down forever, and no
Speaker 1: one ever brought it up again. And I think that
Speaker 1: everybody felt that from you, that the ensemble was so
Speaker 1: important to you. And I don't even hope there's a question.
Speaker 1: I it was. It was a really it was a
Speaker 1: very strong thing inside of me, that group, and I
Speaker 1: felt very protective of everybody. But I think everyone felt
Speaker 1: that way, you know, standing up too, like no one
Speaker 1: was going to put any one of us down in
Speaker 1: any way. But I got that sense from not just
Speaker 1: the cast, but the crew and the writers and all
Speaker 1: the producers. Is again, it sounds like such a crock
Speaker 1: And you know, if I sound like I'm accepting, as
Speaker 1: I said, you've died, and it's not. It's no, it's
Speaker 1: not that, but it's and look, it's part of it
Speaker 1: is that you said, like, no, these were the guys
Speaker 1: who were here, this is our show. Can you imagine?
Speaker 1: I mean, can you imagine at that point? And I
Speaker 1: wasn't a producer until a few years in we were
Speaker 1: down the road that had to be like season four,
Speaker 1: So I mean, no, there's no way, like what No,
Speaker 1: it didn't make sense, um, unless people wanted to move on,
Speaker 1: unless they're but for finance. That's the other thing, the budgetary.
Speaker 1: Do you remember the product integration stuff that we had
Speaker 1: to go through Shredder it was the staple shredder. It
Speaker 1: was Chili's thing. Oh man, that was a thorn in
Speaker 1: my side. I remember when one executive came in and said, Hey,
Speaker 1: for budgetary reasons, we would like to partner up with
Speaker 1: some of these companies and do some product integration. And
Speaker 1: that is that. That's definitely the one time I feel
Speaker 1: like I raised my hand and said we can't. I'm
Speaker 1: very much against us because I think it it definitely
Speaker 1: changes the show. If we are serving a corporate master,
Speaker 1: There's no way the show will be the same. If
Speaker 1: we're putting in any sort of products, it's going to
Speaker 1: alter how we write the show, how we performed the show.
Speaker 1: I was dead set against it. And they went ahead
Speaker 1: and did a couple of things anyway, and and each
Speaker 1: time they were disasters, they were they were terrible. I
Speaker 1: wasn't even going to bring that up to you. But
Speaker 1: what Greg talked about that, he called you um a
Speaker 1: great improver of life. He told a story about Chili's
Speaker 1: coming and saying, no, Pam can't be drunk, and he Greg,
Speaker 1: he said, he was full blown panicking. Yeah, we were
Speaker 1: like three days into the shoot. We're going to lose
Speaker 1: the whole episode. Yeah, and you said no, well, and
Speaker 1: you just that's what he was talking about, like a
Speaker 1: life improperly, here's a situation, let me find let me,
Speaker 1: let me find the yes and or whatever. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: found a way out of it. Um, do you have
Speaker 1: any specific memories that you want to share from from
Speaker 1: your last day or a few days on set of
Speaker 1: the last episode there? That was so well first starters.
Speaker 1: Six months before, I talked to Greg about how I
Speaker 1: wanted Michael to go out, like what I thought sort
Speaker 1: of a final arc would be, and the idea that
Speaker 1: I pitched was, you know, obviously he in Hollywood, be together.
Speaker 1: But I said, specifically on his last day, I thought
Speaker 1: that there should be a party being planned, but that
Speaker 1: he should basically trick people into thinking he was leaving
Speaker 1: the next day because I just thought that that would
Speaker 1: be the most um elegant representation of his growth as
Speaker 1: a human being that he Because Michael lives to be celebrated,
Speaker 1: it's you think that's all he wants. He wants to
Speaker 1: be the center of attention, and he he wants pats
Speaker 1: on the back, he wants people to think he's funny
Speaker 1: and charming and all of those things. But the fact
Speaker 1: that he'd walk away from his big tribute, his big
Speaker 1: send off, and be able to in a very personal
Speaker 1: way say goodbye to each character, that to me felt
Speaker 1: like it would resonate and it was almost more than
Speaker 1: I bargained for, because that's what happened. I had scenes
Speaker 1: with everyone in the cast, and it was it was.
Speaker 1: It was emotional torture because imagine saying goodbye for a week.
Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, see you later and your wave
Speaker 1: and you're you're out. No, it was like just fraught
Speaker 1: with emotion and and joy and sadness and nostalgia. But
Speaker 1: it was also really beautiful, Like I Treasure. I'd like
Speaker 1: treasure just doing that episode because it did allow me
Speaker 1: to kind of have a finality with everybody and and
Speaker 1: they were all different, like like I had one with
Speaker 1: Toby that wasn't was it was it very nostalgic at all,
Speaker 1: but very fitting of my but even in that certainly
Speaker 1: not as a character to be nostalgic, but to kind
Speaker 1: of have that final scene with Paul, you know, I
Speaker 1: can't show the emotion that's actually waited behind it as
Speaker 1: a human being. For just me and Paul. Uh So,
Speaker 1: it was it was a dance. You know, it was tricky.
Speaker 1: But um, I remember the last take and we were
Speaker 1: shooting in the bullpen. We were shooting in the main set,
Speaker 1: and I started to feel like, oh I I felt like,
Speaker 1: I think they're more people in the vicinity because all
Speaker 1: I could see were the cast. But then I just
Speaker 1: got the set. You know, you just get a sense
Speaker 1: of like, Okay, something something, it's got, something's happening. Um.
Speaker 1: And as soon as that last take, the room just
Speaker 1: filled with people and you know, it was all the
Speaker 1: writers and crew and and it it was well, I
Speaker 1: mean you were there, it was. It was ridiculous. It
Speaker 1: was ridiculously emotional. Um. Someone told me leading back up
Speaker 1: to the finale of the series that why would Michael
Speaker 1: come back? And you said, well, if do I got married?
Speaker 1: Is that true? I had told Greg, I just don't
Speaker 1: think it's a good idea because I felt like Michael's
Speaker 1: story had definitely ended, and I was reticent about coming
Speaker 1: back because I didn't want that ending to be at
Speaker 1: all about Michael, because you guys had two more really
Speaker 1: valuable seasons, and I just didn't feel like it was
Speaker 1: right for Michael's return to take anything away from that.
Speaker 1: That was everyone else's ending. Michael had already had his,
Speaker 1: so I just didn't want to. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I felt like I should, out of respect for all
Speaker 1: of you guys, and out of my love for everybody,
Speaker 1: to you know, to acknowledge the the ending of this thing.
Speaker 1: Your kids watch that never now come on, They've never
Speaker 1: watched it, and I completely get it, Like, why would
Speaker 1: you That's just weird, you know, watch your dad do
Speaker 1: that thing? Though, Okay, so my daughter's a freshman college
Speaker 1: and you said you going that was became a thing
Speaker 1: because everyone's watch He's totally cool with it. It's not,
Speaker 1: you know, over that weirdness, and nobody makes a big
Speaker 1: deal of it at college. But taking a course in
Speaker 1: communications and the subject matter was like the paradox of
Speaker 1: comedy or something. Then this is like a big lecture,
Speaker 1: like a huge man and they are studying an episode
Speaker 1: of the Office, which she's never seen, and she she
Speaker 1: texted us like that was really funny, liked, but she
Speaker 1: said it's so weird. She said, I never thought I
Speaker 1: would be studying something that you do that my father
Speaker 1: was in, like for a course. I just I just
Speaker 1: think that's hilarious how that has come around. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: so funny. Um well, I thank you, thank you. That
Speaker 1: was unceremonious, noble. Will you get out? Actually, I no, seriously,
Speaker 1: I UM so good to see you. It's truly so good.
Speaker 1: And weirdly, it doesn't feel like that much time's past.
Speaker 1: I know it's such a cliche, but like I'll run
Speaker 1: into then I'm like, oh, he's gonna look really different. Now.
Speaker 1: By the way, what does this mean? Whenever anyone walks
Speaker 1: in there, like, you look exactly the same. Everyone looks
Speaker 1: exactly the same to me. But you know what, it's
Speaker 1: all I have you ever been to a reunion, like
Speaker 1: a high school reunion and you've never gone to one?
Speaker 1: Um no, I don't know what I have you. It's
Speaker 1: it's an interesting phenomenon because you might see something. I
Speaker 1: just went back to college for a reunion of my
Speaker 1: improv group. Of all things, it's the fort It was
Speaker 1: at anniversary of the of the creation of this improv group.
Speaker 1: So I went back to celebrate that with them, and
Speaker 1: there were people I hadn't seen since college, and I
Speaker 1: graduated in eighty four, so it had been a long
Speaker 1: long time. And some people like when you see them,
Speaker 1: there's that immediate oh my, like that is a very
Speaker 1: different looking person, and within fifteen seconds they look exactly
Speaker 1: like they did because they are who they were, and
Speaker 1: it's you immediately process back to you know, whoever they
Speaker 1: were at the time, although you do look exactly the same,
Speaker 1: you really do. It's amazing. Um, thank you so much,
Speaker 1: oh my god, for coming in, Thanks for talking to me.
Speaker 1: I so appreciate it. And I we may not see
Speaker 1: each other very often, but I value your friendship and
Speaker 1: I'm always so happy to watch you in anything that
Speaker 1: you're doing really the same way. Yeah, it's so good
Speaker 1: to see you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks Nancy making friendI
Speaker 1: gip oh frip tonight. Please give her my best too.
Speaker 1: Good lord, oh man, I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: I could just start that right back over from the top. Uh, Steve,
Speaker 1: my friend, thank you so much for sitting down with me.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like you have anything better to do,
Speaker 1: or like a bunch of movies and TV shows to make,
Speaker 1: but still, thank you, and listeners, thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: Let me know your thoughts on this episode in the reviews.
Speaker 1: It is so helpful for me and my team. And
Speaker 1: if you enjoyed listening to Steve, well, keep an eye
Speaker 1: out or or in an ear out, because we will
Speaker 1: have him back on a future episode with a very
Speaker 1: special guest. Until then, we will have lots more interviews
Speaker 1: coming your way, so we will see you next week.
Speaker 1: The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive produced by
Speaker 1: me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our
Speaker 1: senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our associate producer is Emily Carr,
Speaker 1: and our assistant editor is Diego Tapia. My main man
Speaker 1: in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and
Speaker 1: the episode was mixed by seth Olandsky.